I Read I Am Not Starfire And We NEED To Talk...
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- I Am Not Starfire A DC Comics YA Graphic Novel that has caused controversy since it was announced. This book exists in a sea of commentary. There has been much rhetoric poitive and negative (mostly negative) lobbied at this Elseworlds tale. So why have people been so harsh on Mandy daughter of Starfire (and maybe Nightwing)? Are the asserions that this is a self insert for author Mariko Tamaki accurate? What is actually in the book itself? Find out all that and more as we do an in depth balanced analysis and review here on Casually Comics!
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Oh, if only Starfire had a long time best friend who knew how to relate to angsty teenagers trying to distance themselves from thier parents to build thier own worth as a person separate from that.
Oh, if only.
Ikr
you could argue that both robin and raven could fill this role
@@noobium5333 Exactly! Starfire had friends as resources for help on this matter, and the writer chose not to take advantage of presestablished relationships to fit this better in the setting. 👀
That's the first thing I thought too. Not only could Starfire ask Raven for help, but she herself would have plenty of experience after having for so long a friend like Raven. This story doesn't make sense.
Jason
Raven
Dick
Roy
pretty much all of them would've helped her out
I still don't understand why Starfire was chosen for this. Starfire's best friend is a Goth demon with daddy issues that nearly destroyed the multiverse. I think she can handle a punk like Mandy. This would have worked so much better and probably been better received had it been some other female character. Like Wonder Woman. Imagine having the beacon of truth and most powerful woman on Earth as your mother. Can you imagine getting Lasso of Truthed ever time you came home 15 minutes late?
ok that sounds like a super interesting premise
@@valeriarossini543 I got more of them. How about Batman with a spoiled brat who he never had time for and just showered with his money in an attempt to keep him safe? Or Superman with a delinquent punk who doesn't believe in all that boyscout bs. Or Shazam knocking up a girl when he was 15 and using his more mature alt form to hide from his kid how young and scared he actually is.
Hell, we could easily do one for Raven instead where her inability to communicate and awkwardness in social situations makes her relationship with her daughter difficult. Not helped by the fact she can feel emotion which causes her to pry when she knows her daughter is upset by something but being a child doesn't want to talk about it or can't explain it with words. This exact same story would work 10 times better if we swapped the goth and the princess dynamic.
@@valeriarossini543 LOL. I love this comment
I could definitely see Wonder Woman being a parent in this scenario you suggested. I couldn't possibly imagine just how difficult it would be to live up to the expectations of being just like your mother when it's Wonder Woman of all heroines that you are expected to emulate. I also really love your other ideas with other heroes/heroines. In all seriousness I would really love to see them made into published works.
It could be due to the self-insert put into the comic. It’s possible that the writer had some weird fantasy of wanting to be the daughter of Starfire; or Starfire being their favorite character and want to feel as if they are connect with the character
starfires bestfriend is RAVEN, RAVEN!!! she knows how to handle the teen angst emo energy.
It's not the same when it's your daughter and you're a single mom. (Lots of people cite this as a criticism LOL how?? )
@@charlesintune I think probably because it's a valid criticism LOL HAHA because it doesn't make any sense if you think about it LOL (LOL!!)
@@charlesintune I mean, it's not exactly the same, but having experience with it should help you understand somewhat. They basically ignored any influence Raven might have on Starfire.
I want to see Raven have this emo kid as her assistant 😂 I think it's going to be really fun
@@southernsnowman7788 Dude, she'd just end up killing Mandy or sending her to a hell dimension so she can understand actual pain.
You guys aren't seeing them beyond both wearing black.
The characters are NOTHING alike beyond a color choice.
Raven might be seen as a goth but she wasn't a angsty, nihilist, teenage smoker.
Raven is emotionless, almost a stoic, because she had to cut herself off from her emotions to keep her power in check so she didn't hurt the people around her or possibly end the entire universe by releasing Trigon.
Mandy overeats and acts like a bitch to everyone around her *including Starfire* because her regular life without powers that mark her as a target is just sooooo hard.
The greatest irony is that of all the Justice Leaguers that she may get along with its probably Batman and Oliver Quinn, who both chose to be heroes in spite of their lack of powers, which is kind of her entire arc, that she's angsty cause she isn't superpowered (which would work if they had actually committed to that instead of spontaneously she thinks her mom whose never given her reason to think otherwise; loves her and then BOOM powers and "I'm so happy and great and now the girl I've been emotionally and verbally abusive too is gonna be my girlfriend!"
my main issue is that it reads as if the writer doesn’t know much about starfire and it pushes the whole “i’m not like other girls” thing as a personality trait instead of acknowledging how toxic that attitude can be.
It's not 'I'm not like other girls' that is toxic it's 'I wannabe not like other girls that is toxic'.
What's weird too is that it's a self insert where the character is identical to the author. So like... why did you make starfish your mom just to resent her??
@@guillermolopez6130 This is exactly why I don’t believe the authors intentions with this book. All this was just a way for her to massively monetize her starfire hate fic
This book is literally just “im not like other girls im so emo xoxo” and any time I see stuff like that i just flop onto the floor and scream
@@guillermolopez6130Starfish
Jah
Mandys whole story is literally “I hate my mother cause I don’t have powers” and then her “”redemption is literally “now I have powers so I like my mother again” 😅 I wouldn’t enjoy that story at all
Yeah. It would've been better if it had gone in the "I don't have powers, and that's okay" or even the "my powers are different from my mom's, and that's okay" route. Either way, the bonding should come from more open communication, probably getting a third party involved... which would've been an EXCELLENT way to incorporate Raven into the mix, as someone who has known Starfire long enough to understand what she's trying to say and has probably been where Mandy is now, and will understand what Mandy's hearing in what is being said. The fact that Raven barely makes an appearance is honestly kind of disappointing, especially since I feel like Starfire would be quick to ask Raven for advice.
@@_stupidbro exactly!! And honestly I hate the fact that she slut shames her own mother but then “oh my mother judges me for my looks” like bih what?! You just did the same thing?!? And then her crush shows interest in the Titans and she’s all mad like “how dare you be into something I’m not into that makes you a bad friend and person” like what the hell girl not everyone is going to hate and like everything you do 😅😅😅
@@madisonm.5198 it’s even worse, she got peeved off because she took a picture in her house. That’s it
@@claraclenky9843 Fr!!!! Like she’s such a hypocrite I can’t find anything redeeming about her character. Also the fact that she only has one friend cause he’s willing to just hate everything she hates like girl no one cares about your looks I’m pretty sure you have no friends cause of that gross attitude 😂😂
Yeah, I guess I'd have to read it to have a fully fair opinion but based on all the plot elements but particularly this, I can't see this ever being a story I could enjoy. Sounds like it has a horrible message throughout.
Imagine being the love interest of the main character only to be lectured about how insensitive she is for taking pictures with superheroes.
I would have taken a picture with the titans.
@@kimlovestruck2774 Actually no. She isn't bullied, she isn't told by her mother how shes not worthy of being her daughte. Starfire actually loves her daughter and Mandy doesn't give a shit. She's a horrible person that hates heroes bcz of some shitty reason. But hey now that she has powers and can be famous, obviously she wants to become a hero and now no longer hates heroes, bcz if not she would be contradicting herself. Oh yeah and also she doesn't tell her crush/gf " Oh no don't worry I know you just admire them bcz THEY SAVE LIVES ". Mandy is a character with no growth whatsoever and that just becomes a hero, not bcz of how she admires her mother or bcz she was saved by superman or smth, it's just bcz " Oh I guess I got powers" and "Oh I guess I can be famous now".
@@kimlovestruck2774 I still take a picture with the titans.
@@NakanoMiku-chan-z2m nothing is gonna stop me from taking a pic with beast boy
@@kimlovestruck2774 I don't think any rational, realistic person would ruin a friendship over a picture with superheros. I get it Mandy is a selfish brat that feels very minuscule, but c'mon now. It's superheros.
Tbh, even if Mandy was drawn with a slender body type, she would still come across as self pitying and ungrateful. It's the writing that really hurts her and Starfire's character
But now some people go "Okay, so fat people are nasty 8D", nice job there.
Yeah. In all honesty the idea of Starfire having a daughter with a larger frame could probably used in interesting ways. However, the writing doesn’t seem particularly great, from what I’ve heard.
I don’t think it matters what body shape Mandy has. However she looks, she’s still a nasty, self-pitying YA protagonist. She’s sapphic, but that doesn’t matter because she’s a bad, annoying character. Whatever minorities she happens to fit in, she still wouldn’t change if she _didn’t_ .
@@mleppp1546
It kinda bothers people because she is almost identical to the author. She is so clearly a self-insert character
I'm a teenager rn I don't really relate to Mandy all that much but that's probably because I have a very tight knit family and I'm sorta social? I'm not invested in dc but i did grow up with teen titans. And as an artist myself the mouths and poses look a bit awkward to me, then agian most comics I've read are Manga.
I went to college with the artist. She has amazing art and some beautiful tarot card sets. I don't think her style really fits the traditional comics aesthetic but IMHO the biggest problem here is the writing, not the art.
It's both
I think the art style is fine, I don’t think it’s the best for a DC comic but it’s not ugly
I think so too, the color palette and the simple coloring makes the characters more stand out from the background. Reminds me of webtoon comics. Kinda sucks that all the titans cast that we knew is nothing more of a decor that serves the MC's cliche story.
Oh god.
Not tarot cards.
Yeah I read her book "Laura Deen keeps breaking up with me" and it's genuinely one of my favorite graphic novels. I really saw myself and experience with toxic relationships (mine weren't romantic but still) in the main character. I was very surprised that these two books were written by the same person.
Feels like Raven being around really should have been able to solve a lot of the communication problems
Like... did Starfire not tell the her broody empath friend that she has having trouble connecting to her broody daughter. Moreover shouldn't Raven just have noticed this stuff at the 16th birthday party?
WORD!
That's what I felt both reading the book and listening to this video. Like??? Raven would be the perfect mediator between Starfire and Mandy! If Mandy _still_ felt a disconnect with her mom with Raven present, I don't see why she _wouldn't_ confide in Raven, especially with how similar they are at the most basic level.
I think she said it herself, there are issues in this book that if you think about or ask, the entire story falls apart.
Pretty much, yeah. Like there's no reason why Starfire wouldn't raise Mandy with the Titans as like, a big family unit, if nobody knows who her bio dad is.
That is true 🤔
Raven would be a good mediator for Mandy
It feels like Mandys character was deliberately made unconventional and alt just to show her contrast. However the issue would be that she isn’t displaying any hybrid alien vibes at all. Mandy has no tamaranean features at all.
To be fair she got her moms eyes and hair color, she even have freckles which starfire seems to have in this comic
I agree. we are all products of our parents to some degree and so its a little strange that she doesnt show any quirks or mannerisms that relate her or show her being raised by a literal alien from a literal alien culture. Like casually comics said, if you think beyond the surface level, it all falls apart narratively (more or less)
@@simpletown323 yeah, now that you mention it, I wish they touched on that more. Like, I highley doubt Starfire wouldn't express some Tamaranean culture like food, words, or celebrations. Would've been nice if perhaps Mandy had one Tamaranean food that grossed out others but was a comfort food to her, that brought nostalgia of her childhood, but had stopped eating it because of wanting to distances herself from her mom (and indirectly, her own culture) as well as a byproduct of feeling like an outsider in human dominant society.
@@ChibiMalin yeah, there’s that. But I guess when they said “features” that they weren’t exactly talking about looks🤷♀️
No, she’s a self insert. Look at the author. It’s just a idealized version of herself. It’s not even deep enough to be “contrasting”. It’s just a straight self insert.
The fact that she didn't use Nightwing as a father who's just never home, was a missed opportunity.
Additionally, the fact that she didn't incorporate Starfire's titan friends, especially Raven, into this is absurd.
Starfire airing out her frustrations to and getting advice from Raven, the brooding goth Queen herself, would be perfect for this.
But, because of the cringey premise of the story and character, it would've never been a cult classic.
i refuse to believe she's that short and has greyson genes
I could never see Nightwing being an absentee father. Dude's proven himself to be able to do what Batman couldn't (I bring up Batman because he struggles not being out fighting crime. While he has been there for Damien and the other members of the Bat-Family, he isn't the best dad). Nightwing has hung up the mantle, he's done good without the suit, currently with his newly given fortune he's helping/helped a homeless community in Bludhaven.
So if Nightwing was aware he had a daughter I feel he'd make the most out of being a dad and do everything to be there, especially knowing what it's like to lose one.
Now an interesting idea, is that Starfire would think Nightwing is Mandy's dad but it isn't. In New 52, Starfire had relationship with both Red Hood and Roy Harper (Arsenal/ Red Arrow), but her first time meeting Red Hood, she believed it was Dick and even had an old costume to help remember him by. So the idea of Nightwing unknowing that Mandy's been told he's her dad or Starfire thinking he is, but someone like Roy Harper, who is arguably the most messed up dude in DC to really be her dad would be cool and have potential story ideas.
Oh, there's no way they would tamper with Dick's character in that way because DC actually gives a damn about him. The fact that they did Starfire like this is very telling in terms of her worth in their eyes. Shameful.
Eh no. I'd feel like (I love him sorry) but I think Roy Harper would fit better.
I disagree that the premise was bad, unoriginal, yes but not bad. They just didn't do shit with it nor the characters. As a beginner comic creator who isn't confident in my writing ability, i feel like i could have done a much better job xD
Considering Starfire had to deal with Raven and her emo tendencies for a long time, and she was very forgiving to her sister Blackfire who kept betraying her, I'd say she should be quite good at handling her gothic child
As someone who at times has been the depressed edgy teen and the friend to depressed edgy teen there are so many layers to the trivialised "teenage angst" that this comic just totally managed to swerve. Like, Mandy has no personality traits other than being a massive goth teen stereotype. Idk, every single one of the characters just seem so... Shallow
they just feel like caricatures of what older people think teens are like.
@@seabirdflutter From what I found out the author was 47 so yeah...It's exactly that.
it's called bad writing
Should've had Mandy be an adopted daughter and her real mom be Blackfire, then the relationship would be more grounded
right? such a missed opportunity!
@@mycatateit284 ooohh... that'd be a good reveal for the end actually. I always bugged me... why Mandy? Why would Starfire choose that when her sister(Blackfire) is KomMAND'r? It feels like she was effectively named Kommand'r jr.... WHy?!?!?!
It would make much more sense, but Mandy’s character would still suck
I just felt really bad for all the people on Mandy’s side except for Lincoln. Mandy said some genuinely disrespectful and hurtful things to the people closest to her and she got little to no repercussions for how she acted. It makes me angry.
Fr!! That shit isn’t ok to say to people! And we can’t normalise with kids that you can say that stuff with no repercussions at all
That's what happens when the writer uses their work to vent their own issues with their mom. (And don't really bother to even hide it)
@@leek.3671 Also it's so extreme that Mandy is WORSE than her classmates about being a jerk.
Mandy is they type of person that feels everyone should walk on eggshells for HER feelings, but have to suck it up when she behaves abusive herself. She's awful.
But that's how it is today. Part of being empowered and respecting yourself is how much of a nasty, rude, asocial jerk you can be and not only avoid repercussions for it but actually be praised for it. It's empowering to ignore that someone else has their own feelings and their own worldview and their own shit to deal with. Fuck them.
I just dont understand how Starfire raised a daughter without introducing any of her own culture into her daughter's life.
Seems like she chose not to. In part because she seems to be basically exiled and didn't want Mandy to have to deal with all that.
@@irrevenant8724 that honestly could've been a great dynamic to explore. There seems to be a lot of missed potential with the concept itself.
I don't think Starfire chose not to. I think she might have tried to teach Mandy about Tamarian culture, but Mandy is a spoiled brat who hates her mother, so she probably didn't listen.
@@tr33chimes48 Yup. For some reason people keep talking like this is some sort of hatchet piece on Starfire when it's quite clear that the story is written from the point of view of a disaffected teenager who doesn't appreciate how great her mum is. Complainers gonna complain, I guess.
@@irrevenant8724 some people grew up with teen titans.A lot of people hold them dear to their heart, i do too it help me through hard times. It felt like the stories happens in a vacuum, where things only happen around or because of mandy. And the potrayal of starfire felt only like something to further the plot. It care a lot more on the message rather than its characters, and it sucks how the titans is nothing more than a decor to the story.
If teen titans wasn't such a beloved franchise, the bad writing/cliche people wouldn't really care. But seeing the characters you love being potrayed unjustifiably, dont expect them to not care
Mandy has literally no redeemable qualities. I've read insecure, self-pitying characters before and this ain't it. Also, the mother/ daughter plot was mishandled. The building blocks to a competent story where the daughter felt overshadowed by her amazing mother only to find out she was more like her than she realized is there. That's what disappointed me most about this. It could have been much more, the seeds were there, but in the end it was just Mandy lashing out the entire time and being rewarded in the end with powers and a love interest. Why? I dunno. She's the main character, I guess. Also, wtf was Blackfire doing there? She won. She ruled Tamaran with an iron fist. I'm sure she already killed everyone that opposed her at least 10 years prior.
I think what makes the story weak is that it was a theme handled a bit superficially and it didn't feel like it used much context from the DC universe or Starfire's character to build up Mandy's dislike of her.
I think they should have done it from more of a superhero context and they should have given her more of a reason to distance herself from Starfire than just feeling overshadowed by her. We know Blackfire hated Starfire because Starfire learned to fly before her, and Blackfire had some sort of disorder that made it difficult for her (I think thats what it was). Maybe they could have made Blackfire jealous that she doesn't have any children or an heir, while Starfire does (something her younger sister has over her again.) Maybe they could have used Blackfire to influence that, and feed her the wrong information based on her own actual dislike of Starfire.
There are ways they definitely could have done this better if the writer was thinking about it from a comic perspective or had someone to help her.
Give an example of a likable, insecure and self-pitying character. One that is liked because of it, in comics.
@@GeteMachine Tomoko from WataMote?
@@GeteMachine Literally Peter Parker
@@HopelessDjinn That’s a pretty good answer actually.
"French people don't have superheroes"
The disrespect towards Ladybug and Chat Noir I swear-
Monsieur Rat
The autor probably didn’t know about them.
Idk if she has experience with super heroes.
...and Super Dupont!
ok I'll found the exit myself ►
@@mikasaackerman9605 yeah I'm bored with marinette non progression and straight up regression. We need more of adrien's perspective
@@mikasaackerman9605 lol same
The more I learned about Mandy, the more I thought, “God, she sounds so stupidly insecure and self-obsessed…which sounds like literally every teenager. Oh God, do I hate teenagers now? Am I old?!”
What's not to hate? I started hating teenagers during infancy.
No, it's just that growing up you realize that most of the things that made you angry when you were a teenager are stupid, so you get angry because you realize you wasted time and energy on stupid things.
Good, good. Let the hate flow through you.
You've matured and realized how petty teenagers can be thats a sign of grow, congrats and don't let it get to your head.
Don't worry, I hated teenagers when _I_ was a teenager.
The story is actually quite awful. It's basically angsty teen wants to be an angsty teen...just because. The writing just feels like going through a cringey teenage post.
I see you everywhere
Tbh... just bcoz isn't that the reason teenagers do anything.. today it seems like they do it until their 30s.
HUNTER! Samurai Fortify!
I agree the Arthur just wrote a story about how it would be if she was Starfire daughter
@@kungfreddie god I hope you don’t have kids…
Wait she beat Blackfire? That should be? Literally impossible upon just discovering your powers.
Right? A better story would have been Mandy never getting any powers but coming to love herself and realize she can do what she wants without them.
Would’ve been better if Starfire significantly weakened Blackfire, and it was still a tough battle that Starfire had to intervene at times
Mary suUuUuUuUuUeee
This is wish fulfillment me guess.
Yes, the Marry Sued, or Reyed her as I like to call it.
And this is why teens in YA fiction are often written as if they're a decade older. Kids this age do not always act rationally. It's realistic, but not narratively satisfying.
@Sniper Penguin Funny story. I used to hate Shinji...now though...inspite his bad crap he does. I see him for what his...a kid in over his head. Then when I think of myself and other's who hate him...it makes me think of how in real life. People don't allow kid's to be kid's.
@@garbledsand-which2321
There's an almost similar character to Shinji named Mitsuzane in the superhero show "Kamen Rider Gaim" from 2016.
People also found him annoying during the show's original run but over the years has developed an appreciation for what he really was: a pretty good "realistic" teenager in a fantasy sci-fi setting.
I think that characters can be written like kids/teens and the story can work, it just depends on how it's written. I feel like some try to capture that despite being disconnected from that age group which makes it fail. Obviously, it might not be 100% accurate as to how the age group acts or with the additon of fictional elements, but you can come close especially in the sentiments and feelings. The Percy Jackson series is an excellent example imo, so did Steven Universe. I know some people found younger Steven annoying, but to me he felt like a kind, silly kid who acts like a kid (that isnt to say that the story was flawless lol) ok this comment was longish but I hope it got my point across lol
Yes but also they didn't portray the already adult and such characters that have been seen before are inaccurate. Also it's very cringy. Like you can make a teen character be annoying and even make irrational decisions or say bad shit that makes you mad at them and still not make me you cringe into your soul
I feel like the problem is that older readers don't seem to accept that young teen characters can be angsty and immature without it necessarily being character definitive. People just seem to see characters like this and act like they're awful only because they're immature, for their age. Yet the subject matter of the book at least would be relatable, even if its execution left a lot to be desired, but at the same time its only an interpretation of a subjective theme.
That is a lot...kinda seems like Starfire was trying her best to give Mandy a normal human life, but was also hoping Mandy would develop powers because then she would have something to teach her.
And it was inside us all along . . .
Or she knows a few supers that had scary experiences awakening their powers.
I feel like she was raising her the best she could do as a human person, but didnt know how to do it , like when she said its what you do at your age you go to school and then go to another school , like she dosent grasp why but she knows its important
Or they would finally have something in common.
@@ericmangum4058 that feels weak to me because the concept of school isn't alien to Koriand'r. She might not know all the specifics, but she'd at least understand the basics.
For a comic that prides itself on being positive in many degrees, there were a LOT of uncomfortable "fat person eating" jokes that reached "every 80s-90s fat kid stereotype" levels of cartoonish.
I don't think they were meant to be jokes. Moreso showing she has to eat a metric ton to even get overweight due to her genes.
@@Nakia11798 the problem is there's not much else to her personality other than being fat and hating her mom
@@VFPro_ Ah yes. The character is overweight and wears black, the author is overweight and sometimes wears clothes that have black colors. So that means it's a confirmed self-insert and we all need to hyper-fixate on this one random YA graphic novel and REEEEEEEEEEEEE about it online instead of just....idk, having a life?
@@WhoTookMyMirr You've read this story?
@@dildonius yes. I have, actually. Were you hoping that I hadn't?
I'm also under the impression that Starfire would've disseminated information about her origins and adventures through storytelling throughout Mandy's life. Given her nature, it doesn't seem realistic that that moment would've been the 1st time Mandy had heard about where her mom is from... 😅
What this entire comic lacks is a "Mother and Daughter relationship." Mandy behaves the same way many teenagers do when they're adopted into a new household. Which is what I assumed would be the big twist at the end (that she was her niece not daughter)...
@@sakulaeyr9819 that would have been great! If Mandy was actually related to Blackfire, who didn't want her because she didn't have powers (and she might see that as a physical disability, and being the bitch she is would resent that) and sent her to live with Starfire, until suddenly she does develop powers, and the conflict could have been Mandy learning to appreciate what Star did to try and be a mother, without a partner or experience, and fighting for her right to stay with the woman that raised her, instead of being dragged away with her biological mother.
Hell, could have even been a subtle commentary on the shit show that is the foster system, where parents have the right to their children, regardless of how bad they are, and the mental toll that takes on children who are only taking back when it suits their parents, then discarded when they become inconvenient.
I would have loved that! The book would have actually had a message, and would have related to so many kids in foster care on a much deeper level than "my mum is so lame and feminine, and keeps trying to talk to me, and set me up for a good career so I don't starve to death on the streets! My life is so hard!"
@@TeganThrussell Why didn't you write the damn thing??? That sounds GREAT! Hell, I might do something with that idea.
Imagine being a kid and never asking "Hey mom, why are you orange with green glowing eyes and why do we have super strength and laser eyes?"
I honestly am more surprised about this because in all media I have seen Starfire is VERY open about being Tamaranian, and especially being super famous as she is supposed to be, literally everyone would know she is an alien and that her powers are normal for her species. And even under the assumption that Mandy might be the only human/alien hybrid in that world, which i highly doubt considering the Justice League's main group alone is comprised of at least two aliens, three if my memory about Hawk Girl being an alien species is correct, plus two different members of the Green Lantern Corps, and Superboy would likely still be a thing.
Not to mention Demigods with Diana and half-demon-god children with Raven. Maybe this is supposed to be one of those threads you try not to look at..
21:36 With how Raven is depicted how the hell did Mandy not immediately attract to Raven as a substitute mother figure.
I feel like the book had to downplay Raven as much as possible because her dynamic with Starfire makes Mandy redundant.
and they REALLY just COULDN’T let mandy have tan skin, huh :/
Apparently not
How many tan goths have you seen?
@@TheHeroOfTomorrow as in white people with a sun tan? a decent amount, actually. and if you mean black and brown goths? a whole lot more ❤️🤷🏽♀️
@@TheHeroOfTomorrow The first goth I met was dark skinned :/
It is a self insert fanfic
Honestly, the fact they DIDN'T use Raven as an in-between for Mandy and Starfire is just... It really highlights the lack of writing ability and understanding as characters them self. Raven could have so easily be used as that 'cool aunt like figure who understands Mandy more' and tries to help Mandy with someone who might be more like her for someone to relate to emotionally and give her confidence. While Raven could also be the gate way for Starfire to understand her own daughter to help bridge the two of them together. Also, the fact that Mandy is never seen thinking about her dad??? Not realistic if you ever see a teen who is being raised by a single parent and the depression/anxiety that comes with it. Both could relate to their family issues too.
I agree! There’s a whole Teen Titans episode where Raven and Starfire trade bodies for a day, which allows them to get to know and accept each other more. Obviously, I don’t think this comic should have done exactly that, but the writing didn’t really make use of the existing characters as well as they could have. For one, I really struggle to see Starfire as being as disconnected as she is from her daughter, and like you said, it would have helped the narrative a ton to have other Titans, like Raven, present in Mandy’s life. To an extent, it’s understandable to keep her separated from the superhero life: Starfire likely wants to give Mandy the normal childhood that she couldn’t have. However, this idea is also kind of undermined by the fact that Starfire still willingly put Mandy in the spotlight while keeping her hero life completely separated. It just ended up feeling like Mandy had to “earn” learning about her mom’s hero life, since Starfire seemingly didn’t mind putting her daughter in the spotlight. Idk, I think my problem with the comic is that there are a lot of little moments that add up to something that just doesn’t feel like it fits within even an alternate version of these characters. And it doesn’t help that even the original characters tend to be very one dimensional, so everyone feels just a bit off / incomplete, which is unfortunate. I think the idea was a solid one, but the writer just didn’t quite pull off the execution. The controversy before it came out definitely didn’t help 😓
"I am not Starfire"
Well...me neither. Nobody but Starfire is Starfire.
and King Shark is a shark
And former president Barrack Obama is a former president
"I am Gandalf! And Gandalf means... me!"
😂😂
i love how you can tell that the author actually hates Starfire because she is beautiful and bubbly 💀
Women hating on other women out of jealousy. Toxic
Typical and cliché ugly girl jealousy. As someone who experienced bullying for being the "pretty friend", it's very jarring. You start to purposely make yourself ugly in order to feel accepted by your jealous friends. It's a sad premise, but it's the reality.
I thought I was the only one seeing this, because, as an artist also I use visual cue to express characters, my first issue with this was she saying Mandy wants to be the opposite of her mother, I was like cool, why? The video started to explain the visual differences and that's when I started to feel uncomfortable because I started to feel like what they are saying is a woman that is beautiful, colorful, popular and based on the art, voluptuous is bad and we should root for Mandy the big body emo girl... Which is fine but I don't find anything wrong with both women.
If I wanted to make Starfire daughter be the opposite of her, what I'd do is make use of Starfire cheerful helpful personality, make her want her daughter to be happy by indirectly forcing her to look pretty, well groomed and lady like, slim etc but she will think she's helping and not realise she's overbearing... Then it would make sense why Mandy rebels that way visually without insulting some of the female population.. Sheesh... You'd think as a writer she would write characters and not objects with ideas on them
@@michaelrichards5340 i think the reason for wanting to be an "anti-starfire" was a hatred at not being like her. People keep making it about powers or as suggested here her body but i think it far more than just that. She see her mom dating, see her surrounded by friends, the constant complements, the fame, the fortune, see's her mess up and charmingly just dismiss it and Star obviously hid the backstory of Tamaran and it seems her very reason to be on earth which takes out a majority of the negativity in her life. She seemed perfect or a mary-sue if you will and Mandy was worried, that being her mother, that's what she'd be compared to her entire life and she "ran/gaveup" before it started like she did during the test.
summary: It's Helga and Olga from hey, Arnold only told as a mother/daughter story instead of sisters.
@@itskitty808 Sadly lots of people bully for lots of reasons. It's a sad indictment on humanity that we'll bully people equally for being 'too pretty' as for being 'not pretty enough'. -_-
With the Titans thing, I know it’s like a tiny tiny detail but even if nightwing isn’t the dad, I’m sure he’d still step in as a father figure. Like he’s the leader and a detective, surely he’d see that star fire is struggling and Mandy needs a father figure in her life
He would find the father (if it wasn`t him) or act as a surrogate dad for the appreciation he has for Starfire and just out of being a hero/decent person. So yeah, that felt weird.
Someone suggested he could`ve been the "Dad who is never home" and that would`ve been a lot better for me
The story is told from Mandy's point of view, so even if Nightwing was around, but out at night on patrol, it looks like he is absent.
@@Axl4325 Honestly even if Nightwing is the Dad I doubt he can stand his daughter enough to be around her.
Think about the shit he was dealing with at her age, his parents brutally murdered by gangsters in gotham, working as a child at a circus and then as a child soldier for a deranged bat-themed billionaire WHO LOCKED HIM IN A PITCH BLACK ROOM AND MADE HIM EAT RATS TO SURVIVE.
Do you think he, let alone any of the Titans who went through just as much trauma as he did would actually manage to give her more then a week before they just said "fuck it, I hate her."
If it wasn't for how clueless the author was I'd think that was the reason why the titans are absent from Starfire's life, is cause they just *can't* stand the spoiled bitch that her daughter became.
@@TheLikenessOfNormal imagine being able to do all that and an emo child is enough to make you give up. What a fucking embarrassment.
Dick knows Starfire far too well to assume that she needs a 'father figure' to raise her kid. I'm sure he's around for support if she needs it, just like the rest of the Titans but he's hardly going to step into a father role uninvited.
“France don't have superheroes!”
Ladybug and cat noir: Are we a joke to you?
@Mona Bruh....
@Mona But they have rabbids, and they can Dance!
@Mona you ok? did france hurt you?
I think the story will be accepted more if it was about a shy girl with anxiety and the pressure of people expecting her to be just like her mother is stressing her out and the novel is just about her finding herself and embracing her true self
That's been done to death though
@@base21 its just easier to accept tho
i think thats what they are going for kinda its just done very cliche and the book would have flown under the radar if it wasnt for everyone kicking up a stink about it
Exactly. Mandy is just so unlikable but yet she gets everything she wants without lifting a finger to get it.
@@base21every version of “be yourself” has been done to death tho. Like every possible version
Beast boy being a different animal all the time is hilarious to me
It's beast now. Remember this story doesn't want any guys to be important
But there's already a Marvel character called Beast
@@frappompiwhich is ironic and funny cause morph from the xmen is based off a character named changeling but they changed his name because beast boy used to go by that
I’d like to think not being Starfire was the friends we made along the way.
Almost anyone with an appreciation for Range Murata is okay in my books.
Same thing about never being as popular as PewDie Pie 👍
This kinda is the message of the book now that I’m thinking about it kkkkk
Also, Starfire wouldnt make her daugther take the SATs, Starfire would take her daugther to SPACE FRANCE!
Conveniently right next to Space Australia....
Huh, a cosmic road trip of sorts? I'd be down for that.
@@TeryJones about time we saw some more of our favorite red space Australian
I read that as SPACE MARINES
@@theonlychickensama8353 Wait, we're going to H.F.I.L.?
I'm just saying the aunt who was literally passed over by her country because she didn't develop powers fast enough would probably have been an excellent bonding moment with the villain and the story could have been so much more cool where Mandy gets coaxed over to Blackfire who is using her to secure the thrown by making Mandy HER heir.
Like Mandy could have come around to realizing that her aunt was nuts, saved her mom and then realized that she had let her negative bottled up emotions lead her down a destructive path.
Also the fact that Raven didn't even get a scene where she gives the typical "You can't let your emotions rule you" line is a fucking crime
Finally, an analysis/rant that isn't mostly about Mandy's appearence.
Mandy's appearance doesn't take away anything from the story. It's still shit lmao
@@Quaden0 Exactly. I'm trying to say that people unnecessarily rant too much about Mandy's appearence despite the fact that there are way bigger things to talk about, like the writing.
@@nivorann yeah. The story is overall boring, the biggest sin of being a comic artist.
@@Quaden0 her Casey and April TMNT mini series was extremely boring too with bad art to boot.
@@skinflutey a boring story and a bad art style seem to be constant with her stories
Also, I get why Mandy isn’t interested in college because debt is terrible but her mother is a superhero, and from what the house/rooms/etc all look like it appears that Mandy is pretty well off financially? I don’t know if it’s discussed that she isn’t. I’m guessing but it would be nice if she didn’t want to go to college because she wanted to do something else, go to trade school, or maybe she could have an idol who never went to school and wanted to take from that.
As someone who was in high school a relatively short time ago, we did have papers where we had to analyze books for themes and explain why they're universal but those were all solo. Our group works were all sitting around a table, breaking down every piece of imagery in a paragraph to try and understand what the hell they meant.
Oof. That sucks
Sounds like my AP Lit class lol
LoL i got the same assignment but instead we have to write a synopsis from a popular novel
In my country we did have group ones, but they were few and always ended up on an oral presentation
That was the same for me and I graduated over 10 years ago (god I'm old)
Hearing the plot just makes me realize how the movie "Sky High" did teenage super heroes so much better.
It also is interesting that in both this comic and in Sky High, the story gets a bit less interesting after the main teen develops powers.
At least the main character in sky high was better
Sky High's the one about eugenics, right?
@@alexbennet4195 oh god
So young justice but without the therapy episode.
@@alexbennet4195 Not… intentionally? But a little bit, yeah.
as someone who hasn’t read this and loves fanfic, the more you spoke on starfire’s characterization (or lack thereof) i gotta agree with the “its basically fanfiction (derogatory)” argument despite it obviously coming up for not great reasons.
On fic sites like AO3 you can just tag the work/characters as OOC and go to town, but for an official published work, (even in the elsewhere space) it’s kinda irresponsible (?) for the pretty basic story to prop itself up on Starfire’s notoriety without rlly paying respect to her.
The author couldve replaced known characters with original ones and gotten the same message across, and probably had a better received comic for it as well.
THIS. So much this. Having read the author's interview and then read the comic feels like she honestly has NO idea who the character is besides the basics.
Yeah like honestly it kinda seems to me like the moment Mandy started *being* Mandy that Starfire would've taken her to meet her old titan comrades and had them share the stories of their fucked up traumatic lives with her so that she gets some type of fucking self awareness that her selfish laziness and casual spite are the cause of all of her own problems and that *other* people she constantly judges and swear at have to deal with shit *not of their own making.*
Like Mandy is the comic book equivalent of that meme of the guy sticking a stick in his own bike tire.
And honestly with obesity as one of the number one health problems in the world and one of the biggest risk factors for getting infected by the coof, *maybe* just *maybe* the time of fat acceptance and the whole *you're beautiful at 400lbs* thing takes a little rest.
Like being shamed sucks, but as someone who is fat and is finally dieting and losing weight and shit after a lifetime of it just trending upwards, I mighta had more portion control if I had been shamed for eating like a fucking pig.
And her bit about not wanting to take exams because of college debt.
Like bitch your in a 2 family household and at least one of your parents has saved the world multiple times. Your not gonna be in crushing debt.
I grew up poor as shit, and developing severe depression in the middle of high school was not helped by the sobering knowledge and realization that I didn't have a college fund and I could physically not get enough scholarships and grants to attend any of the high level institutes that my pre-depression grades would've guaranteed me entrance to without me going into *actual* crippling debt.
Hard to try hard when you know your only option is gonna be community college no matter what you do.
Like her attitude would somewhat make sense if her father was like a trucker working 18 hours a day always away from home and her mom worked full-time so that they could make ends-meat (with her size they'd have to make a fair bit for her to get that big and stay that big with any type of daily activity.)
Show her having a hard time doing regular shit with people because her feet are killing her.
I completely agree and I think that is the main problem of this work!! I absolutely love the other graphic novel "Laura Dean keeps Breaking up with me" and I hated this one because I feel like they just tried to use the DC brand and characters to sell it.
@@Dark.Shingo Yeah, doesn't seem to have even read a wiki to learn the basics of the fictional setting either. the story premise is interesting... but while some story beats ring true in an emotional way.... that angst is the only part of the story that does.
To me it seems more like the author feels insecure compared to Starfire and used this comic to depict her negatively.
The plottwist of the century would be if she ended up being Blackfire's daughter that Starfire adopted.
That would've made the comic so much sadder... now I kinda wish it was part of the story.
I have a gripe about how she isn’t taught her culture at all outside of having powers: her people did things they made infrastructure, made food, and that she is technically a princess. The human thing is understandable, but all her history as a member of a species with history and customs and Mandy rejecting them till the final act would make the conclusion less divisive. (Especially if she was hinted to be taught her native martial art[Nightwing exist it’s not an argument that you need powers].)
also the few bits of Tamaranean culture the writer does use are.... weirdly re-worked. In most tellings Tamaraneans start developing their powers as children. But here it's some rite of passage that defines when you become an adult? And so on.....
Damn right fanfiction is nuanced as hell. From an outsider’s perspective, I can see how someone wouldn’t get that, but as someone who’s been writing it for nearly two years… holy shit. There’s such a fine line between respecting the source material and being original, and staying true to the characters but still making them a little bit your own, and doing what *you* want but trying to appease everyone else. It’s… it really can be like writing an actual book. And you would not _believe_ how stressful it gets
I spend a lot of time making sure my teenage characters act and speak and think like real people.
I am 16 and the cringe teenage characters in mainstream fiction need me
@@AdamOfIngolstadt why are you like this?
@@horatiomiller7386 Why does she want to write non-cringey teen characters?
Fantiction has a lot of downfalls yeah, that's why msot of it sucks
@@jamieadams2589 Some of it can be bad, that's true, but far from _most_ of it sucks. That's really not fair to anyone to make such a broad claim, especially because almost everyone who writes it pours so much of themselves into their work. That's like reading a few crappy books and saying "Most books suck."
Reinventing characters _can_ be interesting, I read one at the library called Teen Titans: Raven by Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolo. A different take on Raven, but one I really related to. It's not about whether a work portrays characters different than how I'm used to so much as whether it's done *well.*
I really love Gabriel Picolo's version of all the Titans honestly! was so happy when he started working with DC officially.
oohi love Gabriel!!
I have their beast boy book I love it so much
I adore Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picolos work
I’m outside the target demo, but Gabriel’s art is beautiful.
I wish they kinda explored why the events activated her powers because it actually makes sense DC wise. In the Teen Titans cartoon when Starfire and Raven swapped bodies, Starfire explained to Raven that her powers are activated by strong emotions, while Raven's powers are unstable by default and are regulated through suppressing emotions. In this sense, Mandy hasn't been allowing herself to feel because she's in so much denial throughout the book that the battle was the first time she let her emotions out there, therefore activating her powers.
But yeah, still cliche, but I just noticed it made sense
You have a point 😶
Unfortunately I have a feeling that it was a total coincidence and not intentional 😭
I’m honestly glad to find a review that isn’t agitated rants about a character’s appearance
Wasn’t that basically Critcal Drinkers video on the comic when it got announced?
or only saying that it's "woke" and a self insert
I haven't seen any review that rants about the character's appearance.
@@weetdoog I mean it is tho
@@ScythGrizz Critical Drinker thinks everything is too woke and pretentious. If “hoes mad” was a person it would be CD
Well, the main lesson is: despise yourself and be an arse to everyone you're around even if they are trying to be helpful until you get super powers which somehow reverse all of it
Yeah pretty much
Yep😁👌 stay toxic
2021: "Stay Toxic, Get Superpowers!"
The author of Mandy: *STOMP STOMP CLAP* SHE WILL, SHE WILL DISAPPOINT YOU
Didn't Megamind try this and it ended up the new hero became a worse villain than himself?
I really like how mature you where with this entire review. You voiced criticisms without being sanitized and boring but where also never mean spirited. You painted the other viewpoints in way that is easily understood. I personally don’t like the book or it’s characterization, but also admit that the vitriol around the book feels opportunistic and reactionary. It’s not for me or a lot of people is what I’ll leave it at.
"There's no superheroes in France."
I cannot express just how _United States of American_ that statement is. Regardless whether she's right or wrong in-universe.
But if she is wrong, it is *SUCH* a funny line to me... because few people I know can be as _confident_ and as _wrong_ as native-English speakers.
I have watched a middle aged man in Shark Tank try to say that he INVENTED a tool to make holes in coconuts, so you can drink straight from the coconut...
But I am from *Brazil* . Those things are older than my grandparents. They've been around since before the dictatorship... and yet, the man kept acting like he would "disturb the system with his revolutionary contraption."
So the idea of Mandy being 100% sure there are no superheroes in France and the French supers being "Qu'est que c'est?" is hillarious.
Seeing that bit in the video softened severely my impression of Mandy. Because if she's right... she's a teenager with bagage dreaming of running away to France.
But if she's WRONG... she's a teenager with bagage dreaming of running away to France as if being in France could solve all of your problems... when it really really really would *not.* 😂
And THAT, I feel, is a super entitled teenager thing right there. But in a "normal teen" kinda way, really fitting of her "rebelious teen" persona.
best comment
The fact that she could have picked any remote place on Earth that may actually not have superheroes and she picks France??? Like what? It's truly baffling.
@@hope3290 It's like... France is sometimes an idealized place, where people _not_ from France assume it's the best place in the world...
Happens to plenty of places.
And either when people actually go to one of those places... or metaphorically _grow up_ and realize that it is _A PLACE_ , and that as long as it is _a PLACE_ , there will be pros and cons...
So a lot of teenagers put SOME places on pedestals. Many people I know used to idealize Japan (myself included 😅)
But the fact that hers is seemingly France... one of *THE* most advertised tourist destinations in Europe and the World... is just _so United States of American_ to me...
[Note: I say United States of America / United States of American because... the *continent* is called America.
I am an American from Brazil just like an Asian can be from Mongolia, Russia, Iraq, or anywhere within Asia.
So it doesn't sit well to only call people from the United States "Americans." As if the people from Chile, Panama, Jamaica, etc. aren't _REAL Americans_ .]
I am a Wally West fan and as a fan I know Wally was part of the Justice league of Eruope(since it was severely underpaid), and now we have Justice leauge of China... Yeah, hun, Superheroes do exist in France.
Ladybug would like to have a talk
This seems like an example of the Streisand effect. If there hadn't been so much negative attention, this book would have likely been forgettable and fade into obscurity.
Any publicity is good publicity...
It's gross, but because of this it can't be forgotten easily.
Like... Barbra Streisand? That's the name of this type of phenomenon? I've seen this 'publicity through outrage' routine many times now but I didn't think it actually had proper name.
Probably the only reason why this book got attention is because star fire was a part of it. And she’s a fan favorite.
@@annika3265 she was really hated at the beigining for being jewish and nlt conventionally pretty
@Sara Lucia Forero Garcia ‘the Streisand effect’ actually refers to her becoming a gay icon. The angrier people got about it the more LGBTQ people found out about Streisand being popular among other LGBTQ people. In the end it made Streisand popular among gay people and gave her a new audience while her straight fans were angry because 🤷 gay people?
First time seeing this book months ago, I knew the exact plotline from Mandy's design alone, and that's fine, but it would be a surprise if she wasn't a sullen killjoy to interact with.
Now that you mention the lack of a father acknowledgment, because they never said who the father is, because it's clear that Mandy either inherited her mysterious father's somehow powerful genes, or a lot of recessive genes in this genetic lottery. She's much shorter, rounder, way more human skin tones and conditions, when Tamaraneans are naturally tall, athletic, and orange, at least she inherited her hair lol
You know what, I never understood why she just... Never hanged out with Raven? Like, you think she could help with the goth loner deal earlier, maybe? I don't know, a lot of this could be resolved with some like-minded reassuring?
As a story, I get the idea, but the execution with this part of the universe, opens a ton of questions that doesn't want to ever explore.
Also I know damn well France has heroes (Ladybug esarure lol)
(Blackfire's shows do rock, and highschool was over a decade ago for me, and I forgot most of it... Oh and I laughed at the Forest Gump reference)
A tamaranean burns 6000kcal per day, they are a solar battery and also burn alot of energy, when Starfire use her powers she burns more. This race is naturally fit. So she being this big is nonesensical.
Internationalhero has a page about old-school French superheroes and... One of them is quite unfortunate putting it mildly..!
I'm guessing (cause I haven't read this) that Mandy probably sees Raven as her mom's friend, and that's not really someone to hangout with (I mean Raven's a grown woman).
Mandy also deals with people who constantly ask her about the Titans, so the last thing she'd want is to be around all the time.
Plus they're so different, Mandy's rebelling against her mother, Raven's trying to keep her emotions in check so her dad doesn't take over the world.
Also I think Mandy's scared of Raven so this might've been a good call.
@@DavidSilva-mn4dz I wonder if it would be better if she had the body of a lumberjack. They are big but that's all muscle. Or if they chose another hero.
@@patronofdragons yeah, well is fiction, biology is mambo jumbo with this thing: Starfire descends from a feline alien and humans descend from ande hominide. Weird stuff
gonna be honest here because this was important to point out for mandy's sh!tty character growth on how she treats her mom.
you skipped over the scene where mandy makes fun of the way her mom talks with the response of 'no it's the not' after starfire asked about college and you can see after that point how she's struggling to say what would be a normal sentence. 19:35
I hate that people are saying that she’s a realistic teen because as annoying as they are. There’s a reason for what they are even if it’s as stupid as something 5 yrs ago.
I hate that scene so much because as someone with a mom who’s not a native english speaker I would NEVER make fun of the way she talked
Same here- my mom has lived in the US for almost 30 years and never really grasped onto English that well. But to make fun of her broken english??? as her daughter?????? i just can't relate to that....
@@dianamungaray Also, Starfire's broken english isn't a significant speech quirk, it's a minor one that rarely causes a problem.
As a teenager, her personality just kinda sucks. I don't relate to it, and I would never make fun of broken English. My grandpa is from what I think is Mexico and his English is super broken, but that doesn't mean he deserves to get Mads fun of for it.
Wait, wouldn’t Blackfire have more combat experience, and just all out be stronger or no? Regardless, how did Blackfire not wipe the floor with Mandy?
The weirdest part to me is that Blackfire easily defeated Starfire but then was defeated by Mandy. It could be a rock/paper/scissors scenario, but it's more likely that the comic is trying to convey that Mandy is stronger than both of them.
Plot armor? Bad writing?
I mean, if they had at least Starfire do some work, so Blackfire was pretty weak, fine. OR, Blackfire toys with her, and says she'll give her X time so its at least a worthy fight, fine. But the person who shouldn't even UNDERSTAND how to use her powers outright winning? GIMME A B, GIMME AN S, and we're done.
Because the character is a self insert for the writer.
I feel if they had made her love herself prior to getting her powers otherwise there's no true character growth. She hate herself and everyone else, all the way up until she flies, now she's suddenly happy and ok? Shallow and a disappointing moral.
It paints the picture that teens are miserable unless they have something that makes them special, then years of depression and self loathing can be cured!
@@RiveroftheWither that's half the problem everyone thinks they're special and they're not, which is okay. It's okay to be average
I just finished it. One thing i noticed is that the title is "I'm not Starfire", and at the end, she become Starfire Jr... She cured inconfidence by getting an alien superpower hack rather than actually realizing what type of person she wanted to be...
I remember seeing this comic around the internet and just being really confused about its existence. The draw, the thing that will get people to look at it is Starfire in the title. So it's drawing Starfire fans, but the protagonist, who we're meant to relate to, is her angsty, resentful teen daughter who wants nothing to do with her? There's a big disconnect there.
Brings to mind the period where Marvel nailed Wolverine onto every cover they could, even in stories where he didn't even feature in a single panel. Which would have been tolerable if he'd been in the background, simply a consistent feature or hidden easter egg, but when he takes up the entire cover, yet not a single frame in the story?
Way to disappoint your customers.
The contrast is the *point* of the story. It's the story of an ordinary, overweight teenage girl struggling with growing up under the expectations of being the child of a constantly happy, beloved, supermodel superhero. The draw is "what must be it like to grow up as an ordinary person under the shadow of a parent like that?".
@@irrevenant8724 as it's spitting in the face of lore and general respect for the source material.. it's a terrible self insert from a gross troll..
Now I feel like we need a video to highlight some of France's superheroes.
She could do a Justice League Europe video.
Including actual French comics and their superheroes!
Miraculous Ladybug and Cat Noir!
Nightrunner is suddenly angry and he doesn't know why.
Jean de Baton!
I think people missed a small important-ish moment - Mandy adds a "the" before not making fun of her mom's broken english when Starfire tells her its what responsible parents do. I when i was younger and would get into arguments with my parents, i'd be insensitive and do things like that too and they told me it was extremely hurtful to them. Its an example of trying to alienate your parents in a cruel way when you feel they can't understand you due to a cultural gap.
What made me hate this comic was the moral: be an annoying brat, learn nothing from your mistakes, and everything will fall on your lap.
Mandy treats everyone badly? Everyone still loves her.
Has a crush on someone? That someone reciprocate from the get go, and doesn't matter how badly the protagonist treat her, she will always remain infatuated with Mandy.
Hates the mother for having superpowers while she doesn't?
She gets superpowers.
Damn, she even defeated a opponent who bested her mother easily, someone who had those powers for decades.
Sasha is one of the most “fair” reviewer’s on UA-cam. She shows both sides opinion and why they might think that, is very non bias in her opinions and let’s the work speak for itself, and always makes the videos entertaining. Thanks Sasha, keep up the good work.
I agree! Many people who covered this were extremely biased and not impartial at all. To be honest, I didn’t like this book, I thought Mandy was too mean and it wasn’t my cup of tea, but it is OKAY for people to like it. Everyone views the world and art differently. Views shaped by their own experiences. That’s why everyone has their own opinions and interpretations of stories
Being unbiased and impartial is what we want from a judge in a court of law. Graphic novels are judged by the artwork, the story, and how well they fit in to the established lore. You can already get a sense of all three by the promotional material and the fact that the MC resembles the author.
@@dragonsmith9012 the art work is beautifully, the story is solid and fits as a one of, and it is a non canon adventure.
It was an interesting history with good things that can be explored on other titles.
The fight scenes are bad, but the rest is pretty good. It remembered me of acception.
I feel the same, that's why I keep watching.
@@danielsantos-wh2op I couldn't disagree more, but it's your time and money. Good for you. I really mean that.
Mandy’s green aura is so fitting for her alias, Dumpstarfire
True. Also the green aura on Mandy "Dumpstarfire" Cobblepot look more like a slime than a mystical enchantment
Omfg
GOODBYE
D E A D
@@peoplesaidmypfpiscursedafb6902 are you implying that the Penguin is her father? That's actually amazing.
You ever read a super self indulgent fanfic where something happens to a character and they have like a public breakdown or give a speech about being sad in front of a crowd or something equally dramatic and out of character? This feels like one of those stories except Mandy is actually Like That
This comic feels like Twilight circa 2005. It's bad but the hate is overblown.
Meh, cant relate dont care, just a waste of paper and time when there are other stories out there that do these themes but better. (See My Hero Academia.)
this is a wattpad fic grown wings.
Wow, a balanced review instead of hearing grown men repeat “GO WOKE GO BROKE.”thank you.
"French people don't have super heroes."
Miraculous Ladybug would like to have a word with you.
Time?
@@eva-uq9qw What?
@@eva-uq9qw 14:09
@@bubblesofrain thanks you
Tbh, the daughter just having personality similar to her aunt might have been cool. Maybe she triggers some kind of memory in her mother from when they were children.
I will saying that it is really hard to find some reviews on this book that are... actually about the book.
Because the book has flaws, actual flaws in the writing that could be disscussed. How Mandy is ulikable, self-entitled and brattish but she is never made to grow past that. She is a teen- all teens can be brats sometimes, but you can still make them likable with a little effort. There should be a moment showing what Many is like outside of the context of being overshadowed by her mother. Maybe make her also display some of Starfire's more well known traits like being emphatic and protective of others. Let her be her own hero.
How the pacing is off and Blackfire is unneccessary to the story.
How her getting powers is also unnecessary.
But instead people seem to be stuck on a stupid and irrelevant self-instert criticism, how she is fat and she doesn't look like her mom. Those are shallow, lazy criticism that just make all the discourse around them lazy and shallow. It's doesn't matter if someone thinks Mandy is ugly. It doesn't matter if she looks like tha author. The writing is the real issue and I am tired of people giving the "She is a fat self instert!" as much weight as some actually constructive comments.
i couldn't care less her body type, but it does feel uncomfortable that she is significantly paler than starfire. it isn't like starfire tans, everyone from tamaran is born with darker skin because their planet is basically the sun - it could be argued that it's because mandy doesn't get any sunlight, but that doesn't happen to people with naturally dark skin.
@@bumblerbree exactly like why did the author whiten her skin and her features
I know what you mean but when you self insert yourself into a comic, it becomes disingenuous. When I read comics, I like to read about someone that doesn’t exist in real life because I want to escape from the real world and immerse myself in a universe. The writing is also kinda bad and I found it so goddamn cringey for some reason
Most critisism about her body type and the self insert thing came from a time, where the book hasn't been published yet. Most review must grasp the little information they gave them at the time. And that is her design and small fraction of the pages. Even though with all this and those panels shown and with videos titled with "self insert" there are plenty saying that her character doesn't make sense, isn't likable at all, unnecessary, etc. The insult towards the author being self insert is just a disrespecting move against a seem like disrespecting author.
I agree with those who only judge this based on the design, body type, style? But those reviews I've watched only used it to define their disappointment while comming up with constructive criticism. Prejudging isn't a good thing, yes, but as the publisher published little details about why she has darker hair than her mother, etc it all got debunked. So yeah, those critics and reviews I've seen aren't just jumping around the "ew fat and ew self insert".
THIS! So much This!
Am I alone in thinking Mandy's character design is fine? Cute even? Maybe "fat moody goth girl" is kind of stereotypical, but not ugly.
I think her not looking more like her mom is a missed opportunity though, both to contribute to her resentment of Starfire, but also to have a goth character that isn't super pale for a change. I've noticed a lot of young goths think paleness is a required part of the aesthetic, and it's not.
The book sounds kinda mediocre though. Not bad, not great. I might chance a read of it myself.
my problem is mostly just that she doesnt look even remotely related to her mother, even ignoring her weight her proportions are completely different, i know shes actively trying to not look like her mother, but her being pasty, short, stocky, and round faced to her mothers tall slender bronze skinned and anguler form.... i guess i just dont buy it.
Being one myself, I like the goth aesthetic, and chubby is... "Eh, whatever. Bodies are all different" but the artist I think tried to go out of her way to make Mandy look physically unattractive in a classical sense juxtaposed against her glamorous classically beautiful mother.
The only problem I have is I think Starfires daughter wouldn’t look like that all the women and kids on starfires home planet are thin but muscular they have 9 stomachs meaning high matabolism. She looks like she isn’t even starfires daughter at all.
I wouldn't mind her design if she wasn't such a despicable character.
@@kekkres Yeah. Why couldn't she be Wonder woman's daughter? She look much closer to a human than Starfire. I don't get their logic.
Sounds like this shouldn't get any more scrutiny than whatever Gotham High is
Get someone on that- find out what Gotham High is
Gotham high was cute, it was like the fictional special school trope but it was just a boarding school in gotham where bruce went I think or damian is going to at that time, I forget. Cute lil series about some kids exploring mysteries of the school and one of the main character's parent was a villain
@@OmerAliuddin i think you confused gotham high with gotham academy lol
@@nanamugu oh I may have. Gotham high is the one AU with bruce and selina and everyone being high school students aint it?
@@OmerAliuddin yup,they have very similar names it's annoying,a shame gotham academy isnt more famous
Knowing nothing about this comic or these characters, I am going to assume that the father is Raven. This is now canon.
I fully accept that as canon, many plot holes now make sense.
Sounds like something I'd hate 😅 For me the mother-daughter relationship getting better after Mandy gets powers ruins any chance at it being an ok story. Mandy just comes across as jealous of her mom and resentful for not having powers and being less pretty. Her issues are kinda solved after she gets powers lol
“French people don’t have superheroes” *cries in Miraculous Ladybug*
This is an awesome and underrated cartoon which is better than the modern, post 90s Spider-Man junk.
@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 the show is in hot water and some people just gave up on it entirely.
@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 Bruh, 90’s Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man were AWESOME!
Also Rayman! Video game hero, but still!
@@kendriccoley7053 why??
Feels rare that someone bought and look into the story and gave their opinion without being biased and understanding both sides and discussing the actual problems instead of whining the smallest things that doesnt really damage the story as a whole. Really impressed.
(Rant incoming haha-)
Ngl, Mandy feels, privileged? I haven't read the book so take all of this with a pinch of salt, but Mandy feels...yeah, privileged.
I'm basing this entirely off just one panel you showed kinda. It's the one where Mandy says that, "being understood by you family is both rare and overrated." (Or something like that)
Alright. This is. A major turn off if you're trying to get me to like the protagonist of your story. Being understood by your family isn't overrated in the SLIGHTEST. Saying that people are making it seem better than it is, is so, PRIVILEGED.
As a person who is in a position where my family can't "understand" me, (I'm in the closet), that's so fucking- NO??? WHAT??? Being understood by your family is such a GOOD THING! Your family understanding you and your needs is a WONDERFUL THING! Just because your relationship with your mom sucks, doesn't give you the right to SAY that!
And this especially bad because she's *sapphic.* Like, are you not connected with the queer community?? Are you not aware that so many people would KILL to have their parents understand who they are and love them for it??? You have a mother than actually loves you unconditionally, an actual oportunity for an understanding and loving relationship with her, and you're willing to throw that away?? As if there aren't so MANY people who WISH they were in that position??
Sorry for the rant, just, she talks like she's so misunderstood, woe is me, but there are people out there who's parents aren't even willing to try.
But it does sound how teens talk tho
Yes!!!! Also the “at 17 most kids get used cars” was a big privilege alert bell for me too
I could be totally wrong here since I haven’t actually read the comic, but maybe it was a form of denial? Like the way people say “I don’t care” when they actually do care to prevent themselves from being hurt/rejected (rejecting someone before they reject you in order to preserve your self esteem). I mean, I totally agree with you that Mandy seems really privileged and this is probably not the case, but a small part of me continues to hope that maybe Mandy has some redeemable features. But if that was truly the case, I don’t think it was executed properly regardless and Starfire doesn’t seem like the type to hurt her daughter in that way.
@@dexmos6743 don't read too much in a mediocre book, it is as it is
idk i think even if your parents are trying they can still be failing at it. And a 16 yo is allowed to be upset about that
I know most people here want to talk about the comic's quality itself, but holy crap. it's a RELIEF to finally see an actual analysis instead of someone making a rant infused with politics that doesn't care about an actual debate and constructive criticism, kudos
As someone who graduated a couple of months ago: yes, that sounds like exactly a high school assignment I would've gotten, in fact I got one astonishingly similar in ninth grade. Granted it's cause my teacher was awesome and I know plenty of people and schools who wouldn't give anything similar but yeah.
Yeah, I mean it wasn't a deep dive into mental health or anything but a large part of my hamlet course went over how Hamlet's mental illness influenced some of his actions and how he began to spiral
@@Goblinteethves Hamlet is a regular mine of mental health issues. Suicidal. Narcissistic. Dismissive of others. How he treats Ophelia is worth a study all on its own. And the elephant in the room, all the issues caused by his uncle killing his father then marrying his mother. The dude is a mess!
I am mostly assured of one thing,
I've always hated "young adult" fiction.
Children's shows allow themselves to be fun.
Adult television allow themselves to be serious.
Young adult much like being a young adult uncomfortably can do neither.
That's because young adult fiction isn't aimed at you. YA fiction is aimed at mostly teenagers, who are in some of the most confused, angsty, and honestly stressful times of life. Fiction like this is easy to get into since teenagers feel like they can relate to any type of angst in those books.
That isn't to say that's a good thing, since what it does is make a lot of these poor traits seem like good things to embrace, but it does sell.
I really don’t understand why DC and to a lesser extent Marvel are trying to get female readers through recruiting YA authors and trying to mimic YA. The YA genre died a long time ago, and besides that it feels sexist to me that comic book publishers seem to think the only way girls will get into comics is with pink gooey fluff books. I don’t want a separate universe just for the gurly shit, I want good main line comics that speak to different audiences, girls like me included.
Most of the OGNs DC has put out are not "pink gooey fluff books". I haven't read all of them but Wonder Woman: Warbringer and Poison Ivy: Thorns especially fall into another category entirely. DC's current "normal" comics with female leads also have a variety of themes.
YA hasn't died, what are you talking about?
YA literally one of the most popular fiction book even now
They will get a female audience if they focus more on interactions and psychology in the comics.
I wouldn't say that YA died out. Quite the opposite. Yes, it didn't have any super big names like the Hunger Games or Twilight in recent years, but it's still going pretty strong, all things considered. SJM's works are really popular amongst teen readers (even if I loathe them). To All the Boys I've Loved Before is a YA series, but got three movies over the past few years. Hell, Shadow & Bones/Grishaverse is a YA franchise and it got a Netflixs show recently, which trended for almost a month on there.
But I certainly agree DC trying to recruit YA authors to gain more female readers is kinda stupid. I'm a female DC fan, and what drew me to it were the TV series like Young Justice which focused on the characters. There are still rumours that the show was cancelled at first BECAUSE it was more popular with young women then its target audience. If they went with that approach more, then they'll draw in more female readers. Also, it's pretty sexist, since that whole idea is based around believing female comic book fans don't exist, which is bullshit.
My parents, like Starfire, are immigrants and even though they’d been in the states for almost 20 years, they never really connected with my experiences when I was a teen. Many of Mandy’s issues with Starfire are pretty normal for the children of immigrants. The generational gap for most kids already makes it a struggle to connect with your parents as a teen, but having a cultural and possibly even a language gap makes it exponentially harder. Sometimes that communication breakdown causes parents to fall back on the lessons from their own upbringing, which doesn’t make Starfire a bad mom for being out of touch, it just means that she’s a regular parent, kinda flying by the seat of her pants.
I don't see why she would be out of touch though. Starfire knew the language instantly and should have only initially had issues with natural sounding phrasing. She's been on Earth more years than Mandy has been alive (obviously) and you can't say she hasn't integrated pretty much completely. She may not understand things like school and the stress of college well since she came from a warrior culture but that's exactly why she would ask for help from Dick or Cyborg.
@@WolframiteWraith Starfire doesn't know English perfectly, she still struggles. Starfire also didn't tell Mandy what her homeplanet was like because it brought bad memories, which many immigrant children can relate to. Especially children of refugees. Starfire is a flawed mother in this story, and Mandy is a flawed daughter.
Starfire, best friends with the daughter of a demon, a heir with daddy issues, a science project gone wrong and a shapeshifter with abandonment issues.
I think the biggest problem with this book is that it isn’t popular with its intended audience (young teens). Most kids in the demographic are more interested in manga, especially series like My Hero Academia and Demon Slayer. I mean, MHA has elements of high school culture, while also being an exciting superhero tale that’s quite similar to Marvel Comics, which the author is a fan of. It also doesn’t help that the protagonist is quite unlikable, who swears constantly and is generally rude to everyone. Compare this to Deku, and it’s obvious who kids/teens relate to more, and who they view as a role model.
Honestly, I think this book is more popular with adults in their 20s who are constantly obsessed with social media and watch CW shows unironically.
I think you're exactly right. After people have seen similar attempts at "Parent can't relate to child - child resents famous hero parent" tropes like Shoto Todoroki and his dad, it's much harder to find sympathy or interest for characters like Mandy. MHA handles the story so much better, and balances the perspectives of both parties for the sake of the readers.
Eh, maybe so? As someone in that age demographic though this is definitely not for me,,,
Even Boruto is doing it better
@@PetitTasdeBoue I know Boruto is bad in most of the aspects... But it was really to compare like that? sheeeeeeesh, i am speechless
@@Voldrim359 Well Boruto is indeed a piece of shit with his father because he can't stand the fact that he's always working and out of the house (or using clones to replace himself during importants events woaw Naruto, woaw) so it's a good comparison I guess. And he have actually good reasons for ignoring his father.
I normally dislike the “troubled teen” trope, but in hearing you tell the tale, I was delighted by the twist ending that apparently Mandy’s sullen demeanor was her “kryptonite” preventing her super powers from manifesting.
Since that what we learned from Starfire and Raven's dynamic is the first show. Raven had to be "happy" and emotional to use Star's power and Star had to control herself to used Raven's
Oh yeah, in some version, positive emotions are what fuels Starfires powers along with the sun.
@@WannabeWryter oh damn, I just remembered seeing a clip from the 2003 teen titans where she couldn't use her powers cause she was bummed out by robin not liking her, just remembered that huh
@@justapassingbycommenterrem5642 recently watched that episode yes also what happened to those little aliens that were massaging raven???
@@Juanmaligno The question never gets answered as far as I know
"There is probably no more terrible enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man--with human flesh."― Frank Herbert, Dune
“French people don’t have superhero’s”
Night Runner: “am I a joke to you”
Ladybug and chat noir
This feels like a young adult version of DC’s Superhero Girls cartoon, where one of the Girls grows up and deals with teenage offspring.
This franchise was cool.
Well it IS a YA book
DC Superhero Girls is not about offsprings, they ARE the characters but aged down to be teenagers, and it's pretty cool! The comedy and references are sweet and it has a lot of action
Why make this about starfire is my question, the biggest picture people have of her is being a teen titan, not a mother, if they wanted to do a misunderstood teen/mom duo they could’ve done wonderwoman or Hawk Girl, it just doesn’t fit Starfire at all
As a librarian working at the Schools Division Office of a city in the Philippines, I cannot recommend that book to the public school librarians I work with. The f-words alone would get it blacklisted by the Department of Education.
Sunugin mo nalang
Translation : just burn it
@@z3ro47 Good idea. Hindi ko pwedeng gamitin iyan bilang toilet paper. Kasuklam-suklam ang pagkagawa at pagkasulat.
because kids of that age have never heard that word before
@@moonled It would not pass the screening process. Inappropriate language for K-12.
I'm genuinely surprised that made it to print with that much swearing, it's aimed towards children...
I love that Shasha's cliff notes are more even minded and empathic most most peoples entire videos on topics like this
The thing with this story is that you can have a unlikable character and make it work. But you have to redeem them or punish them for their shitty behavior and learn from it. But in the story she's a piece of shit till the very end and is rewarded for it. Also she's so focused on painting her mom as the root of all her problems but Starfire is the most understanding, sweetest, caring and open minded character ever and she never really doesn't anything against her daughter.
"She decided to runaway........ to the nearest coffee shop"
The image of Nightwing reminds me of the the scene of Ned Flanders in the ski suit where he says "feels like I'm wearing nothing at all."
Oh my God, I didn't see that but now I can't get the image out of my head, why is that so funny????
I really like how the artist draws starfires hair, very very pretty. Also Mandy isnt particularly ugly or pretty, kinda average, shes not for me, but I dont absolutely hate her design.
You did not just thrust Emo Kid back in my mind. That’s a deep reference to old UA-cam.
which is itself a call back to LiveJournal.
THANK YOU. Every time a controversial piece of media comes out, everyone is either against or for it. I’m so grateful for neutral reviews like this one that give opinions as-is.
Side note: yes, those shoes were very nice.
Mandy: "There are no superheroes in France"
Miraculous Ladybug: ...
And i take that personally
This just felt like I'm 14 and this is deep.
This book reminds me of "A Goofy Movie" change the dialogue a bit and:
Mandy: "You ruining my life!"
Starfire: "I was only trying take my girl fishing, ok!"
Mandy: "i'm not your little girl anymore! I've gown up, i have my own life now!"
Starfire: "I know that, i just want to be a part of that."
Starfire: "You my daughter Mandy, no matter how big you get, you'll always be my daughter."
One to one, eh?
I Didn’t even notice the similarities
Lol the final football stadium battle can fill in for the concert
@@CasuallyComics just imagine what if WB animation would try to adopt this)
@@user-ManofStyle1 a competent adaptation could fix some of the issues
Yo, that is a neat comparison 👌👀
The biggest crime is mandy was deprived of all of that flying Grayson heritage she deserves. Where was nightwing showing her to flip on the trapeze???
I always thought it was a good idea, but felt like a bad execution. I'm mostly apprehensive because I believe comics miss the mark more than they actually press it.
But your review it's the first serene and rational... And I love you for that. Thank you for being the island of rationality in this world.
Also, how is it always the most popular girl. I would have rather have Mandy acknowledge how cliche is it, and be more cool because she has no expectations and thus doesn't tries.