We currently live in a time where Blizzard's reputation is crashed into the mud and Star Wars is utterly ruined and a pandemic is ravaging the world Yep, times change in a terrible way
There’s just no way that’s efficient pal. Rams SUCK at taking melee damage, it would be ridiculously expensive to keep on repairing that. Maybe it’ll be more efficient with a Teutonic knight, but I mean cmon while you have found your team mate, a little gay spot to do this, and set up 10 keshiks/t knights/monks your opponent will already have chopped wood, sold it at the market and raided the f out of you. Would NEVER work in a pro game so please just drop this.
Fruktfisk That would mean that there’s only 1 unit getting gold instead of 2 keshiks... Let’s say you use 1 keshik, 1TK and 2 monks. It’s still 1/4 units collecting gold at a dark age rate, compared to 1/5 in the first case. Your team make probably want some gold too, so when you send it to him it’s probably 1/5 rate again or worse... Also, imagine all the darn micro to set this up. Sorry but you should all give up on this dream to abuse this unit... There’s just no way, unless they auto heal without monks somehow.
How would you, a member of the House and Clan, know mana from heavens? That sounds like some Salubri heresy. You're gonna get staked atop the roof of the chantry, awaiting the sunrise!
I once thought Keshik should be allowed to generate gold while attacking Town Centers, obviously at a much lower rate (1/10 of dark age gold miner), to reinforce the heavy cavalry role as raiding units. This would work a bit like Pillage in Warcraft III Orc.
Full rate for town centers would be fine, you get shot down by town centers pretty quickly typically, it's not easy farm. It would be too op against defenseless structures but for a town center it seems fair.
@@rahzoriel2103 Castles definitely, they are even more deadly to horses. Towers it might be trickier since some can be relatively defenseless (but you could argue it's on you). The real worry is that in those cases you could actually exploit it for gold generation (not as much healing to do)
So they and Steppe Lancers could be considered "medium cavalry," costed and statted in between light and heavy? Neat balance, especially after Rajas introduced heavier heavy cavalry!
Well steppe lancers are a non-trash litgh cavarly. Keshiks are more similar to tarkans for stats perspective. Besides that keshiks attack faster and are cost effective against tarkans. So in conclusion keshiks are definitely cheap heavy cavarly
i could say Elephants are on their own special category, those are Good building destroyers, heavy meatshields and Archer harrassers, Other cavalry types are more made for raiding.
"Befriend" a Teuton with 1 Elite Teutonic Knight and 1 Monk, let him put his ETK on "no attack stance", attack with 5 keshiks, generate 110 gold/min for 7 pop. Less good than trading but with the benefit of feeling like a genius. (The math is slightly off, do we have real SOTL fans around to point where is the slight mistake in this reasoning?)
Do converted keshik also generate gold? Becuase with that you can have some ground to barter with. Also it's easier to hide and easier to defend from raiding that trade. Migth be usefull as a way to generate gold in a 1v1 with a friend in order to goof around if you don't have too much knowledge with the editor
@@f.c.laukhard3623 Monks heal 1hp every 0.4 seconds, that converts to 150 HP/min, with Keshik's 15 damage per attack evey 1.9 secs against the knigths 13 melee armor when fully upgraded, a single Keshik deals 63.16 damage per minute to a knigth, so the rates end up close to 1 monk to 2.37 Keshik or prettied up to 3 monks to 7 keshiks, 7 goldminers worth of gold to 11 pop, perhaps a little more, since you can maximize pop space by having as many keshiks as possible attack the same knigth I pulled all the info from the aoe2 wiki
Two things of interest: -The Keshik's worth isn't in whether it can pay back the money spent on it, but rather that it can pay back the disadvantage you create when not going with the same resources worth of knights. -Keshiks are best employed when you're already numerically ahead. The longer a keshik survives, the more of them you can make. When you're already behind and you're sacrificing your troops to the meat grinder in a desperate bid to stay alive, you're probably better off going with knights. It would be interesting to see where the transition between advantageous knights and advantageous keshiks lies.
"When you're already behind and you're sacrificing your troops to the meat grinder in a desperate bid to stay alive, you're probably better off going with knights" Why are knights the better option if you're scrambling to stay alive? That wasn't what I took away from the video.
I didn't really get the last point from the video, rather, if you're very limited on castles obviously knight spam is the only option. Other than that, while keshiks are less effective in smaller numbers compared to when you mass them, they still appear to be cost effective compared to an equal amount of ressources spend on knights. I'd say more or less the opposite of your point applies: if you're post imp and floating a lot of ressources the knight line is better because it is more pop efficient.
@@chungus816 The post is 4 years old and I don't even remember posting it, but I think the point I was trying to make was that you want your Keshiks to be killing and not dying as much as possible. Keshiks only make money while actively attacking enemies, so the way you do that is to have local number superiority. All else equal, if your force outnumbers your enemies' 2:1, you can expect to have 25% casualties by the time they are all dead, instead of the intuitive 50%. This is known as Lanchester Square law, and is why having a large army that you maintain is so much more effective than letting your units trickle into battle one at a time. The more your Keshiks outnumber the enemy, the better able you are to keep them alive and fighting and not dying.
Ok Spirit, but picture this scenario. Diplomacy game: Tatars, teutons and byzantines in the same team. The tatar player is attacking a teutonic knight with a keshik, while not being attacked by it. The teutonic knight is at the same time being healed by monks with the byzantine team bonus (monks heal faster). Would it be viable then?
Exactly! 3 pop for 1 dark age gold miner equivalent. I don't think You even need byz monks, keshik will do 1 dmg anyway, right? So teutonic monk should be enough I think. Not sure though.
I'mma go out on a limb and say that would be a no, because halving the amount of gold produced per side means that the villagers are still more profitable, even if it only took one monk to heal the knight
yevgenyi yeet That always has and forever will be true. With memes, music, films, etc. If you compare everything produced today with stuff in the past that has already stood the test of time. The past *always* wins. But that's not a fair comparison since, by definition, nothing new today has _stood the test of time_. Give it time, and in a few years we'll see how 2020s memes were "so much better", once all the bad ones have been forgotten.
@@iau i don't think that will be the case with 2020 memes. We might remember it as a great meme era but formats die too quickly to really become iconic and even if they do they are often ruined by overusing them and people trying to constantly keep it alive or revive it.
Honestly I think the Steppe Lancer needs a buff, and the civilisations that use it should in turn have the knight line removed, so that there would be more unit diversity - have some civilisations good with the steppe lancer similar to elephant civs - and make the steppe lancer viable as a knight replacement with some twists.
We NEED a civ with that unique tech : Horse meat ! : units produce food when fighting cavalry Cannibalism : units produce food when fighting non-siege land units.
@@fullmetal_faqih6446 Gauls were assimilated into the Roman Empire for quite some time before the West fell, who then were ruled mainly by the Franks. All that's left of celtics cultures are, well, the Celts. They would be better suited as a AOE1 civilisation. And still, they weren't "fully barbarian" by the time of Caesar's conquest so I wouldn't give them such an unique tech.
the keshik are a great imperial age option when the enemy expect ya to attack with cav archers you were harassing him with in castle age and suddenly, BAM! keshiks ^^.
Fun fact: A non-elite Keshik with full armor and no attack upgrade can pay for himself in gold and win against an elite elephant Archer with full armor and not attack upgrade.
I always love how your memes are so on point! I also tested Keshiks and they - only have *1* unique *A-Tier* counter - only have *5* unique *B-Tier* counters - are cost effective against *28 / 34* other unique units For the tests I assume equal resources (eg 11 Keshiks vs 3 Elephants), PostImperial Age and no micro. Then after the fight I count the HP of the winning unit and > 60% HP would be an A-Tier counter. I did all that 3 times to get a good average. I really like Keshiks and their uniqueness!
The way it is, I don't see a real reason for Tatars players to go for the Knight line once Keshiks are available: Stats roughly on par with the Knight line, for only the 2/3 of the overall cost of a Knight, and almost half the gold (Heck pretty much half the cost once Gold generation is factored in). Pop-wise, Knights might be better, but I ran tests on equal resources (nothing on SoL's scale), and Elite Keshik trump most Paladins in this situation. Full Upgrades Generic Paladins (like Persians and Cumans) and Franksih Paladins get trounced with around half of the Keshiks still alive, like Bulgarian or Malian Cavaliers. Teutonics and Lithuanians Paladins with 2 Relics... Harder, only around 6 badly mauled Keshiks survive, but they can still do it. Their cheapness compared to these good stats give me the impression of a heavy cav made for winning through resources attrition, and welp, teamed with Tatars HCAs, the ensemble becomes pretty difficult to counter. Heck, more than a Tatars and Cumans overview, I'd like to see an update on the Top 5 for Best Cavalry, and Best Cavalry Archers. I'd say that many civs of the Great Khans could be serious contenders for spots on the classement now.
I just hope the steppe lancer gets buffed again slightly in the next patch. Right now there's no reason to use them over knights or light cavalry in their respective roles. Since Keshiks are now really good for their price Tatar players won't use SLs. It's cool that Mongols have them as well now but again they're not used since Mongol players use the gold for Onagers and Mangudai and use Hussars instead, and Cumans just become another Paladin spam civ in imperial age like Persians, Magyars, Huns etc. I also think Huns should get SLs. They are a raiding civilization originating from central Asia so they are appropriate, and SLs, discounted cav archers and Tarkans could be a really fun army to use.
In short bad as a replacement good as a suplument unit for the superior strat Also who would win in a battle of the hyper range seige Turk bombards Korean onigers tartar trebs or Briton trebs
I haven't tried DE, but this setup reminds me of the Norse civilizations from Age of Mythology that get "Favor" when units are in combat. When talking resources, "When do you get it?" is just as important as "How much do you get?". If there was a unique tech in a regicide game that gave you a million gold when your king's death animation starts, it would be a worthless tech. The problem with the Keshik is the time you get the gold is generally after the time you need. The only times it can help you is if you lose the fight but your opponent fails to lay on the pressure afterwards, or if you win the fight but have multiple opponents.
I'd like to see how much better one or two healing monks makes a Keshik army. Might not help that much or pay off the monk cost, but it would be interesting.
Any amount of likes and comments aren't gonna be enough to really recognize the full worth of the long intro and the 69-nice innuendo which T90 would be very proud of.
I hate the fact that they need both forging and iron casting in castle age in order to 4 shot a villager. Although, the extra hit may just mean more gold generation hmm....
You have to go deeper SotL! See, to get an efficient secret alliance, you should do a ratio of 4 Keshiks, 1 Teutonic Knight and 1 Monk. 1 damage per hit, with 4 attacks every 1.9s. 1 heal every 0.4s/4 heal every 1.6s.
Even if one doesn't necessarily agree with all the strategic points discussed in a SOTL video, one has to admit that the aesthetics and video production quality are pretty sick. Those Keshik fights zoomed in with top tier quality graphics, beautiful :D
I'm curious as to what points you take issue with? I feel like he usually is very clear about the limited validity of the test scenarios, and tends to stay away from strategies rather than just describing some applications from the results of his tests! True on the production quality, tho! I don't even have DE, and I still have been loving the new videos.
When you calculated the secret alliance tactic did you check if having armor upgrades without attack upgrades would make a difference? Or with another setup, where you have the Keshik as an attacking unit, a tank unit with greater defense and monks / villagers (for healing/repairing)?
hmm... 4 monks for each keshik to stay alive...but wait, is this calc made with even atk/def b.smith upgrades? what if both r not just clever, but UBER-GENIOUS and let 2 non-elite no atk but full def upgraded keshik do it while both having a byzantic ally for the monks to heal faster??? Maybe then only 2 monks are nuff to do it!!! HAHAHA! Checkmate!
Yo Spirit, i have few questions and one challenge for you. 1. I notice that Gaia in creation maps give monks +15 more health and +3 more range also archers and cav. archers buildings and all that get +1 more dmg when u make them post-imperial in the player section, i don't have DE so i don't know if that was fixed. 2. Could you check for me a units like, Amazon archer, Amazon warrior, Nordic warrior, Something warrior, Bronze swordsman, Legionary and Centurion, where i know Centurion have +10 bonus dmg vs infantry but i just wonder does any of these unitse get other bonuses and also i know they benefit from civ. bonuses Challenge: Could you play any civilization vs any civilization with difficuly starting lowest then go higher as you win but, Rules: you can't mine trade self or get gold from anything litterally from anything you can use only gold that you start with but, you start on highest ressources. You can't play the mode where you get 10k all ressources or something like that Thank you ^^
I havent played AoE:DE in some time, so maybe this question is stupid, but: Are Steppelancers rly at their best when massed - or would it mby work out better to mix them with other cavalry [like Knights, lightCav or (even better, since they are more "tanky" and less damaged focussed) with Keshiks]? The "tanky" unit standing in the first row and the Lancers attacking from behind?
4 monks could theoretically keep up with 19 keshiks if they are attacking teutonic knights. So if the knights don't hit back and you can squeeze in 19 keshiks attacking just one knight you can get a gold generation of 17.41667 gold/min per population. That's almost as good as a trade route across 60% of the map. And it's still better than a trade route across 50% of the map even if you need 3 teutonic knights which nets you 16.0769 g/min/pop.
The comparison of Keshiks and monks to 5 villagers chopping wood isn't fair since selling wood for gold decimates the woodline. You should have compared it to a single lumberjack and a bunch of farmers, but give you do have crop rotation even with a fair comparison yeah the villagers would be better. In castle age, when to use knights vs the Keshik? The Keshik is better against crossbowmen. The knights are better in melee per pop, but are more expensive. And in Castle Age, you don't really hit pop limit.
Hi Spirit of the Law, woudnt be better to express the gold generated by the keshik as Gold per Attack. I dont play the game now, but it would be more representative as a time reference i think, because you can make the point if the Keshik didn't attack but it's getting attack it doesn't generate gold (I don't know for sure). So it generate gold per attack (I'm Captain Obvious) and its better por messure instead of time. I dont know if this has some random outcome, but you can calculate how much gold the Keshik can produce fighting differents units. This test could be more valuable with the approch gold/attack. Everyone stay safe ;) Saludos from Argentina. PD And we know you are doing a Master in Math, do a video talking about that and a Q&A or a Live video.
Hey spirit, i just saw a MrBeast video and it had not one but two background musics that you play everytime on your videos ! is it just a coincidence or there's more to it ? :p thanks and great video as always !
Hey! Bognfsn of Sotl! I was wondering if you can make a video of Malay advancing age weird percentage. I just had an Ally wich conceded becouse he thought ir was a bug
Don't get why so few people are using Keshik. Maybe their Cav Archers free upgrades are really cool, but CA has no chance to be as gold efficient as Keshik. I am gonna try myself by using tartars
SOTL - the most efficient setup for a diplo game I've tested, is 4 non-elite keshiks on an elite teutonic knight on no attack stance, with one supporting monk. It works out to 0.15 gold per second for each unit, which is 50% as good as a castle age miner. But I guess the advantage is that it works anywhere with little space, it requires no defending, once setup it's stable with no management, and needs no map resources.
Can you please make a video for beginners like me where you explain basic strategies like ,,fast castle“ or ,,booming“? I often hear people talk about this but I have no idea when or why I schould use them.
Yes, infinite Keshik Gold farming isn't worth it. but how well can we expect the economy to be impacted if monks were generally used as support for keshiks?
I am still extremaly super ultimate hugely butthurt that there is no Poland/Poles civilization with Hussars as their best units. We stopped the tidal wave of turks invading Europe with out superb hussary units. It was one of the best Europe had seen at that time and totally ignored by AoE2.
Guys didn't you ever wonder that knight have same 2 melee armor like cavalier and paladin although knight wears weaker and lighter Armor in comparison???
But what if you wanna create gold with Keshik on diplomacy game with no atack upgreade, or even with no elite upgreade and post-imp armor? It will require far less healing
What i saw is that keshik is rlly tank, since they don't do paladins. So you can use them as front line for a cheap price, use steppe lancers behind, and cav. archer at very behind. Making a lot of profit and dmg, specially against units with aoe dmg or with huge defense and health, such as elephants.
Can you carry out some experiments and generate an accurate multi shift+right click pattern for a scout to draw a wild boar for long distances? Thanks.
Maybe you should compare the keshik with the tarkan since they both have high pierce armor, overall similar stats and are UUs. Yeah its true that tarkans are more expensive but they get 1 more pierce armor and bonus damage against buildings. Note: I think keshik have a higher attack rate than tarkans.
HERE'S A FELLAH WHO TALKS MY LANGUAGE! The unit which aesthetically looking, is closer to the Cataphract design then the actual Cataphract! (though granted, they did change the Cataphract's visual a bit) Another unit I also thinks looks more like a Cataphract is the Elite Steppe Lancer, though his horse armor only covers the front of the horse, not the entire body.
The way the tatars are right now worth replaying that campaign. Played coop with my brother as tatars and they hold their own. The demolition camel does not feel great, they should at least lower its cost significantly or make more powerful...
"...69 gold, which is nice" - see what you did there)
I like the little pause before he said is nice. xD
How did you comment 11 hours ago?
@@unocualqu1era Patreon early access?
@@Panzermeister36 ohhh, so it's an unlisted video for a while and they get the link?
Damn I wanted to comment that lol
If someone told me 10 year ago that age of empire 2 would get monthly patches , I would have laugh at them , times truly changes...
We currently live in a time where Blizzard's reputation is crashed into the mud and Star Wars is utterly ruined and a pandemic is ravaging the world
Yep, times change in a terrible way
@jocaguz18 maybe for you
@jocaguz18 Not exaggerated if someone close to you has died from it, grow up.
We live in an age of wonders...
@@Poseidon6363 Did someone close to you die from it? not doubting you.
Two keshiks: fight
Eight monks: “YEAH! YEAH, WOOOO! GO! KICK HIS ASS!!”
@Crimson I don't think that's how gambling works
@@Septimus_ii Taxes on gambling, boom.
SOTL, what about a weird strat where a keshik attacks a ram while being repaired by a villager? Wood ~ gold = effecient?
we need this question to be answered - UPVOTED!
New meta confirmed?
Or what if the Keshiks are hitting teutonic knights? Surely it must save on the monks required and be easier to manage.
There’s just no way that’s efficient pal. Rams SUCK at taking melee damage, it would be ridiculously expensive to keep on repairing that.
Maybe it’ll be more efficient with a Teutonic knight, but I mean cmon while you have found your team mate, a little gay spot to do this, and set up 10 keshiks/t knights/monks your opponent will already have chopped wood, sold it at the market and raided the f out of you. Would NEVER work in a pro game so please just drop this.
Fruktfisk That would mean that there’s only 1 unit getting gold instead of 2 keshiks...
Let’s say you use 1 keshik, 1TK and 2 monks. It’s still 1/4 units collecting gold at a dark age rate, compared to 1/5 in the first case. Your team make probably want some gold too, so when you send it to him it’s probably 1/5 rate again or worse...
Also, imagine all the darn micro to set this up. Sorry but you should all give up on this dream to abuse this unit... There’s just no way, unless they auto heal without monks somehow.
SotL content is like mana from the heavens
the best channel on youtube just happens to be an aoe2 channel. #blessed
How would you, a member of the House and Clan, know mana from heavens? That sounds like some Salubri heresy. You're gonna get staked atop the roof of the chantry, awaiting the sunrise!
'Cept you can keep it forever and it never turns into worms
0:53 Ultra Instinct Female Villager
FU I was gonna comment the same 11
Yeah wtf was that?! I need to see more
"You fool. This isn't even my final form."
@MayhemMessiah I believe that's the DE AI showing what it's capable off. Or just a bug, those also sometimes happen.
Spin to win
8:22 200 IQ play: Don’t upgrade attack but only cav armor so that you need less monks to heal them.
If you combine that with the monks being byzantine monks. ...
I guess it will work even better with a ram ?
@@MrMorvana you can't heal rams
3:01 "...only 69 gold, which is nice..." it is nice indeed
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
I'm glad the full intro is back
Agree
I love Seeing the Villager kicking the Cobra Car all the time
I once thought Keshik should be allowed to generate gold while attacking Town Centers, obviously at a much lower rate (1/10 of dark age gold miner), to reinforce the heavy cavalry role as raiding units. This would work a bit like Pillage in Warcraft III Orc.
It would be too underpowered in my opinion.
Full rate for town centers would be fine, you get shot down by town centers pretty quickly typically, it's not easy farm. It would be too op against defenseless structures but for a town center it seems fair.
@@meneldal Heck if this bonus stacked against any garrisonable, shootable building (towers, TCs, castles), it would still not matter a lot.
@@rahzoriel2103 Castles definitely, they are even more deadly to horses. Towers it might be trickier since some can be relatively defenseless (but you could argue it's on you).
The real worry is that in those cases you could actually exploit it for gold generation (not as much healing to do)
Last time I was this early Manguadai were crazy good.
Wait...
They still kinda are.
@@sharishth that's the point
@@diegovarela8097 *Laughs in Mongolian*
So yesterday
@@tyranitararmaldo throat sings in mongolian
So they and Steppe Lancers could be considered "medium cavalry," costed and statted in between light and heavy? Neat balance, especially after Rajas introduced heavier heavy cavalry!
How did you post a comment 8 hours ago when the video was posted only 13 minutes ago??,
@@smaranv4077 im assuming the patrons get to watch the video earlier
Well steppe lancers are a non-trash litgh cavarly. Keshiks are more similar to tarkans for stats perspective. Besides that keshiks attack faster and are cost effective against tarkans. So in conclusion keshiks are definitely cheap heavy cavarly
How did you write this comment 8 hours ago?
i could say Elephants are on their own special category, those are Good building destroyers, heavy meatshields and Archer harrassers, Other cavalry types are more made for raiding.
when will be Tatars and Cuman's civs overview come out?
Yeah, I would LOVE a cumans overview. Super unique playstyle.
The old BGM is back :O
"Befriend" a Teuton with 1 Elite Teutonic Knight and 1 Monk, let him put his ETK on "no attack stance", attack with 5 keshiks, generate 110 gold/min for 7 pop. Less good than trading but with the benefit of feeling like a genius.
(The math is slightly off, do we have real SOTL fans around to point where is the slight mistake in this reasoning?)
Do converted keshik also generate gold? Becuase with that you can have some ground to barter with. Also it's easier to hide and easier to defend from raiding that trade. Migth be usefull as a way to generate gold in a 1v1 with a friend in order to goof around if you don't have too much knowledge with the editor
@@sebastianvroom7595 > Do converted keshik also generate gold?
They do
@@sebastianvroom7595 True, TKs and Keshiks with monks can even defend themselves which trade cannot do. ;)
@@f.c.laukhard3623 Monk heals 150 HP per min
@@f.c.laukhard3623 Monks heal 1hp every 0.4 seconds, that converts to 150 HP/min, with Keshik's 15 damage per attack evey 1.9 secs against the knigths 13 melee armor when fully upgraded, a single Keshik deals 63.16 damage per minute to a knigth, so the rates end up close to 1 monk to 2.37 Keshik or prettied up to 3 monks to 7 keshiks,
7 goldminers worth of gold to 11 pop, perhaps a little more, since you can maximize pop space by having as many keshiks as possible attack the same knigth
I pulled all the info from the aoe2 wiki
Two things of interest:
-The Keshik's worth isn't in whether it can pay back the money spent on it, but rather that it can pay back the disadvantage you create when not going with the same resources worth of knights.
-Keshiks are best employed when you're already numerically ahead. The longer a keshik survives, the more of them you can make. When you're already behind and you're sacrificing your troops to the meat grinder in a desperate bid to stay alive, you're probably better off going with knights. It would be interesting to see where the transition between advantageous knights and advantageous keshiks lies.
This guy gets it
Knights better only in 1 thing: they can be creayed from stable. Thats all. Besides that keshiks much better and chraper than knights or cavaleer
"When you're already behind and you're sacrificing your troops to the meat grinder in a desperate bid to stay alive, you're probably better off going with knights"
Why are knights the better option if you're scrambling to stay alive? That wasn't what I took away from the video.
I didn't really get the last point from the video, rather, if you're very limited on castles obviously knight spam is the only option. Other than that, while keshiks are less effective in smaller numbers compared to when you mass them, they still appear to be cost effective compared to an equal amount of ressources spend on knights. I'd say more or less the opposite of your point applies: if you're post imp and floating a lot of ressources the knight line is better because it is more pop efficient.
@@chungus816 The post is 4 years old and I don't even remember posting it, but I think the point I was trying to make was that you want your Keshiks to be killing and not dying as much as possible. Keshiks only make money while actively attacking enemies, so the way you do that is to have local number superiority. All else equal, if your force outnumbers your enemies' 2:1, you can expect to have 25% casualties by the time they are all dead, instead of the intuitive 50%. This is known as Lanchester Square law, and is why having a large army that you maintain is so much more effective than letting your units trickle into battle one at a time. The more your Keshiks outnumber the enemy, the better able you are to keep them alive and fighting and not dying.
Ok Spirit, but picture this scenario. Diplomacy game: Tatars, teutons and byzantines in the same team. The tatar player is attacking a teutonic knight with a keshik, while not being attacked by it. The teutonic knight is at the same time being healed by monks with the byzantine team bonus (monks heal faster). Would it be viable then?
and can send half of the gold to the teuton player and set up ths configuration multiple times as well :D
Exactly! 3 pop for 1 dark age gold miner equivalent. I don't think You even need byz monks, keshik will do 1 dmg anyway, right? So teutonic monk should be enough I think. Not sure though.
I'mma go out on a limb and say that would be a no, because halving the amount of gold produced per side means that the villagers are still more profitable, even if it only took one monk to heal the knight
No. The pop space would be better spent on trade carts.
@@muhittincankorkut6094 despite all that trade seems like a more population efficient and viable option xd
Glorious intro!!!
I really love the memes on this channel. They're so old that they shouldn't work but they are somehow the best. The oldnes just makes it better
Memes that depend on being new to be good are generally weaker in my opinion, especially in UA-cam videos.
@@Thomas-vn6cr yea new meme formats die quickly and none are really iconic
@@yevgenyiyeet8737*Surprised pikachu*
yevgenyi yeet That always has and forever will be true. With memes, music, films, etc. If you compare everything produced today with stuff in the past that has already stood the test of time. The past *always* wins.
But that's not a fair comparison since, by definition, nothing new today has _stood the test of time_. Give it time, and in a few years we'll see how 2020s memes were "so much better", once all the bad ones have been forgotten.
@@iau i don't think that will be the case with 2020 memes. We might remember it as a great meme era but formats die too quickly to really become iconic and even if they do they are often ruined by overusing them and people trying to constantly keep it alive or revive it.
Honestly I think the Steppe Lancer needs a buff, and the civilisations that use it should in turn have the knight line removed, so that there would be more unit diversity - have some civilisations good with the steppe lancer similar to elephant civs - and make the steppe lancer viable as a knight replacement with some twists.
Agreed
SOTL, I LOVE the new extended intro!! Like in the good old days
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE MR. C.A.
Mangudai is way cooler than you
SOTL!!! The intro's BACK!!!! Thank you so much :)
We NEED a civ with that unique tech :
Horse meat ! : units produce food when fighting cavalry
Cannibalism : units produce food when fighting non-siege land units.
That sounds like some Orc civilization or whatnot. Perfect for a Lord of the Rings mod.
I'd love to see a new barbarian civ with these bonuses maybe the vandals or gauls
That should be an Aztec teach lol :v.
Also wood steal : melee unit produce wood when attack building, ship or Siege unit...
@@fullmetal_faqih6446 Gauls were assimilated into the Roman Empire for quite some time before the West fell, who then were ruled mainly by the Franks. All that's left of celtics cultures are, well, the Celts. They would be better suited as a AOE1 civilisation. And still, they weren't "fully barbarian" by the time of Caesar's conquest so I wouldn't give them such an unique tech.
@@Duke_of_Lorraine aight cool
the keshik are a great imperial age option when the enemy expect ya to attack with cav archers you were harassing him with in castle age and suddenly, BAM! keshiks ^^.
The intro
Fun fact: A non-elite Keshik with full armor and no attack upgrade can pay for himself in gold and win against an elite elephant Archer with full armor and not attack upgrade.
I always love how your memes are so on point!
I also tested Keshiks and they
- only have *1* unique *A-Tier* counter
- only have *5* unique *B-Tier* counters
- are cost effective against *28 / 34* other unique units
For the tests I assume equal resources (eg 11 Keshiks vs 3 Elephants), PostImperial Age and no micro. Then after the fight I count the HP of the winning unit and > 60% HP would be an A-Tier counter. I did all that 3 times to get a good average.
I really like Keshiks and their uniqueness!
what are the 5 b tier counters ?
FINALLY HE DID AN UPDATE ON THE KESHIK
Is there any chance for a full civilization overview of Tatars and Cumans?
Maybe after the patch? Couple of things could change with it after all.
"With equal numbers the battle only lasted long enough to generate 69 gold, which is nice." SOTL FLOOR GANG CONFIRMED
The way it is, I don't see a real reason for Tatars players to go for the Knight line once Keshiks are available: Stats roughly on par with the Knight line, for only the 2/3 of the overall cost of a Knight, and almost half the gold (Heck pretty much half the cost once Gold generation is factored in). Pop-wise, Knights might be better, but I ran tests on equal resources (nothing on SoL's scale), and Elite Keshik trump most Paladins in this situation. Full Upgrades Generic Paladins (like Persians and Cumans) and Franksih Paladins get trounced with around half of the Keshiks still alive, like Bulgarian or Malian Cavaliers. Teutonics and Lithuanians Paladins with 2 Relics... Harder, only around 6 badly mauled Keshiks survive, but they can still do it. Their cheapness compared to these good stats give me the impression of a heavy cav made for winning through resources attrition, and welp, teamed with Tatars HCAs, the ensemble becomes pretty difficult to counter.
Heck, more than a Tatars and Cumans overview, I'd like to see an update on the Top 5 for Best Cavalry, and Best Cavalry Archers. I'd say that many civs of the Great Khans could be serious contenders for spots on the classement now.
Was gonna like the video, but it's on 2222 likes and they look like a happy duck family. I'll comment to give the algorithm something equivalent.
Hey spirit how are u, hope u doing well...i want to ask if you gonna make a tatars review because until now you didn't make a full review about them.
I just hope the steppe lancer gets buffed again slightly in the next patch. Right now there's no reason to use them over knights or light cavalry in their respective roles. Since Keshiks are now really good for their price Tatar players won't use SLs. It's cool that Mongols have them as well now but again they're not used since Mongol players use the gold for Onagers and Mangudai and use Hussars instead, and Cumans just become another Paladin spam civ in imperial age like Persians, Magyars, Huns etc.
I also think Huns should get SLs. They are a raiding civilization originating from central Asia so they are appropriate, and SLs, discounted cav archers and Tarkans could be a really fun army to use.
Lol you can make a tournament of keshiks in game and gain gold with it. that sounds fun.
In short bad as a replacement good as a suplument unit for the superior strat
Also who would win in a battle of the hyper range seige Turk bombards Korean onigers tartar trebs or Briton trebs
Best AoE2 videos out there! Entertaining and informative
Okay then, I'd like to see if betwween the Leitis and Magyar Huszar which civ has the better trash unique unit
I haven't tried DE, but this setup reminds me of the Norse civilizations from Age of Mythology that get "Favor" when units are in combat.
When talking resources, "When do you get it?" is just as important as "How much do you get?". If there was a unique tech in a regicide game that gave you a million gold when your king's death animation starts, it would be a worthless tech.
The problem with the Keshik is the time you get the gold is generally after the time you need. The only times it can help you is if you lose the fight but your opponent fails to lay on the pressure afterwards, or if you win the fight but have multiple opponents.
that was the Norse's only way of getting favor though
@@Dreska_ Not really, Loki's Hersir were generating favor by simply existing (and faster in combat).
I'd like to see how much better one or two healing monks makes a Keshik army. Might not help that much or pay off the monk cost, but it would be interesting.
Thank you for another great video.
Yeahh old intro with new animation. It's like same opening but different arc
Any amount of likes and comments aren't gonna be enough to really recognize the full worth of the long intro and the 69-nice innuendo which T90 would be very proud of.
SotL just collecting those sweet sweet views before the patch drops and then he'll redo the vid for even more views ;D
0:37 best part
I just love how you change the intro every now and then but keep the overall feeling. Well done, SotL.
Love your video, would love to see more tutorials for who is willing to get good at the game like me :)
I hate the fact that they need both forging and iron casting in castle age in order to 4 shot a villager. Although, the extra hit may just mean more gold generation hmm....
You have to go deeper SotL! See, to get an efficient secret alliance, you should do a ratio of 4 Keshiks, 1 Teutonic Knight and 1 Monk.
1 damage per hit, with 4 attacks every 1.9s. 1 heal every 0.4s/4 heal every 1.6s.
Even if one doesn't necessarily agree with all the strategic points discussed in a SOTL video, one has to admit that the aesthetics and video production quality are pretty sick.
Those Keshik fights zoomed in with top tier quality graphics, beautiful :D
I'm curious as to what points you take issue with? I feel like he usually is very clear about the limited validity of the test scenarios, and tends to stay away from strategies rather than just describing some applications from the results of his tests!
True on the production quality, tho! I don't even have DE, and I still have been loving the new videos.
22 Gold/min forever. You know some people will have to try that
When you calculated the secret alliance tactic did you check if having armor upgrades without attack upgrades would make a difference? Or with another setup, where you have the Keshik as an attacking unit, a tank unit with greater defense and monks / villagers (for healing/repairing)?
hmm... 4 monks for each keshik to stay alive...but wait, is this calc made with even atk/def b.smith upgrades?
what if both r not just clever, but UBER-GENIOUS and let 2 non-elite no atk but full def upgraded keshik do it while both having a byzantic ally for the monks to heal faster??? Maybe then only 2 monks are nuff to do it!!! HAHAHA! Checkmate!
Yo Spirit, i have few questions and one challenge for you.
1. I notice that Gaia in creation maps give monks +15 more health and +3 more range also archers and cav. archers buildings and all that get +1 more dmg when u make them post-imperial in the player section, i don't have DE so i don't know if that was fixed.
2. Could you check for me a units like, Amazon archer, Amazon warrior, Nordic warrior, Something warrior, Bronze swordsman, Legionary and Centurion, where i know Centurion have +10 bonus dmg vs infantry but i just wonder does any of these unitse get other bonuses and also i know they benefit from civ. bonuses
Challenge: Could you play any civilization vs any civilization with difficuly starting lowest then go higher as you win but,
Rules: you can't mine trade self or get gold from anything litterally from anything you can use only gold that you start with but, you start on highest ressources.
You can't play the mode where you get 10k all ressources or something like that
Thank you ^^
Should Keshiks generate gold when fighting cataphracts?
I havent played AoE:DE in some time, so maybe this question is stupid, but: Are Steppelancers rly at their best when massed - or would it mby work out better to mix them with other cavalry [like Knights, lightCav or (even better, since they are more "tanky" and less damaged focussed) with Keshiks]? The "tanky" unit standing in the first row and the Lancers attacking from behind?
4 monks could theoretically keep up with 19 keshiks if they are attacking teutonic knights. So if the knights don't hit back and you can squeeze in 19 keshiks attacking just one knight you can get a gold generation of 17.41667 gold/min per population. That's almost as good as a trade route across 60% of the map. And it's still better than a trade route across 50% of the map even if you need 3 teutonic knights which nets you 16.0769 g/min/pop.
The comparison of Keshiks and monks to 5 villagers chopping wood isn't fair since selling wood for gold decimates the woodline. You should have compared it to a single lumberjack and a bunch of farmers, but give you do have crop rotation even with a fair comparison yeah the villagers would be better. In castle age, when to use knights vs the Keshik? The Keshik is better against crossbowmen. The knights are better in melee per pop, but are more expensive. And in Castle Age, you don't really hit pop limit.
Yes! The full intro is back!
Hi Spirit of the Law, woudnt be better to express the gold generated by the keshik as Gold per Attack. I dont play the game now, but it would be more representative as a time reference i think, because you can make the point if the Keshik didn't attack but it's getting attack it doesn't generate gold (I don't know for sure). So it generate gold per attack (I'm Captain Obvious) and its better por messure instead of time. I dont know if this has some random outcome, but you can calculate how much gold the Keshik can produce fighting differents units. This test could be more valuable with the approch gold/attack.
Everyone stay safe ;)
Saludos from Argentina.
PD And we know you are doing a Master in Math, do a video talking about that and a Q&A or a Live video.
Can you make a video about allies bonus of same civs? does it stack? which civ can stack and how effective?
0:53 what's the cheat code to dodge the arrows like that lmao
nice amount of gold
As always, take my like, even before watching it
Why is there no info for Keshik counter in the game, just lost a game because of that
Hey spirit, i just saw a MrBeast video and it had not one but two background musics that you play everytime on your videos ! is it just a coincidence or there's more to it ? :p
thanks and great video as always !
So Keshik vs Elephant Archer returns the most Gold right?
Failed to mention tatars best unit FLAMİNG CAMELS, they are deadliest combo with keshkiks
Hey! Bognfsn of Sotl! I was wondering if you can make a video of Malay advancing age weird percentage. I just had an Ally wich conceded becouse he thought ir was a bug
Don't get why so few people are using Keshik. Maybe their Cav Archers free upgrades are really cool, but CA has no chance to be as gold efficient as Keshik. I am gonna try myself by using tartars
SOTL - the most efficient setup for a diplo game I've tested, is 4 non-elite keshiks on an elite teutonic knight on no attack stance, with one supporting monk. It works out to 0.15 gold per second for each unit, which is 50% as good as a castle age miner. But I guess the advantage is that it works anywhere with little space, it requires no defending, once setup it's stable with no management, and needs no map resources.
Can you please make a video for beginners like me where you explain basic strategies like ,,fast castle“ or ,,booming“? I often hear people talk about this but I have no idea when or why I schould use them.
Yes, infinite Keshik Gold farming isn't worth it. but how well can we expect the economy to be impacted if monks were generally used as support for keshiks?
and don't forget to review Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Expanding Fronts
I am still extremaly super ultimate hugely butthurt that there is no Poland/Poles civilization with Hussars as their best units. We stopped the tidal wave of turks invading Europe with out superb hussary units. It was one of the best Europe had seen at that time and totally ignored by AoE2.
and now that perse have the way better vesion of that gold bonus great make tatars great again
best intro ever
No Keshik VS Leitis fight, downvoted & reported & downvoted my own report, REEEEEEE
Guys didn't you ever wonder that knight have same 2 melee armor like cavalier and paladin although knight wears weaker and lighter Armor in comparison???
But what if you wanna create gold with Keshik on diplomacy game with no atack upgreade, or even with no elite upgreade and post-imp armor? It will require far less healing
Oi mate
Be nice if they got significantly more money from killing villagers and perhaps money from attacking Town Centers.
What i saw is that keshik is rlly tank, since they don't do paladins. So you can use them as front line for a cheap price, use steppe lancers behind, and cav. archer at very behind. Making a lot of profit and dmg, specially against units with aoe dmg or with huge defense and health, such as elephants.
Do Keshiks generate gold when attacking gaia units?
Ah man, i misses the intro so much.
Can you carry out some experiments and generate an accurate multi shift+right click pattern for a scout to draw a wild boar for long distances? Thanks.
Maybe you should compare the keshik with the tarkan since they both have high pierce armor, overall similar stats and are UUs. Yeah its true that tarkans are more expensive but they get 1 more pierce armor and bonus damage against buildings.
Note: I think keshik have a higher attack rate than tarkans.
What is the logic that a fighting unit creates gold? Weird.
What if you farm gold with a teammate in diplomacy but with a teutonic knight on stand ground instead. It'll take less pop space.
You are not fooling us SOTL! We all know you hope the patch will change things so you can make two videos instead of one :)
Tarkens are basically looters right? why didn't the devs give them such a bonus? :/
thanks for this nice video (as the pach came out i wished a video like this)
Elite Keshiks can actually fight against 28 out of 34 other unique units cost efficiently without micro.
Keshik's are visually my favourite new DE unit. They look so sleek, like what the Cataphract should have been.
HERE'S A FELLAH WHO TALKS MY LANGUAGE! The unit which aesthetically looking, is closer to the Cataphract design then the actual Cataphract! (though granted, they did change the Cataphract's visual a bit)
Another unit I also thinks looks more like a Cataphract is the Elite Steppe Lancer, though his horse armor only covers the front of the horse, not the entire body.
Now how would a Keshik nothing map work, infinitely spawning Gaia villagers?
The way the tatars are right now worth replaying that campaign. Played coop with my brother as tatars and they hold their own. The demolition camel does not feel great, they should at least lower its cost significantly or make more powerful...
The Mounted units are always stronger and efficient because MOV is the strongest stat in the game and important in both turtling and LTC strats.
For all these comments asking about how you could farm gold using Keshiks in team games, you ever heard of a unit called trade carts?
Do you get gold from converted Keshiks? (if you play by a different civ)
Do keshiks essentially generate a fraction of gold per hit? How else would they measure combat?