How good are Slingers? (AoE2)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- How do slingers compare to crossbows in castle age, and do they really hold up to hand cannoneers against infantry in Imperial Age? Given the recent attack increase to andean sling, it's a great time to revisit the Inca's archery range unique unit.
0:56 What upgrades them?
1:50 Slingers vs Crossbows
4:45 Slingers against Knights
5:50 Imperial Age upgrades
6:45 Slingers vs Hand Cannoneers
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
SotL is such a treasure for this community. The combination of being an "average Joe" when it comes to playing the game and being a top tier content creator makes it so we get super detailed videos about topics you and I are wondering about. Not that I fault anyone for it but professional players trying to do similar styled educational content for the game simply lack the perspective of casual players and very rarely think about questions the average player might have. The cherry on top is that SotL is a man of culture, too and the occasional meme template sprinkled in just makes it that much more entertaining to watch the videos. He's just the best!
edit: Just to be clear, I don't mean "average Joe" in the sense that he's average * at * the game - I know he's a very good player - just that he's a normal every day guy that likes playing the game and isn't hellbent on the competitiveness of it all.
Whenever I play other games I miss having SotL to tell me exactly how effective one strategy is over another and under exactly what circumstances. I have honestly reproduced his methods a few times in other games just to get the same kind of info.
He is not a man of culture lol. I have never seen or heard him talking about boobs or watching women. You should check what a "man of culture" actually means lol
SotL is way better than the average Joe **beats the Extreme AI with only villagers**
I whole heartedly agree! Minus the "average Joe" part. Last time I've seen him play he was a 1900 elo player. Which is definitely above average!
Are there any pros who make content you recommend? Maybe some casting, high-level strategy, or something else entertaining for casuals instead of build orders or analyzing patches.
Their effectiveness against anything other than infantry may be questionable, but their sweet outfits aren't.
Swagchacuti, lesser known Sapa Inca.
@@DCdabest Son of the Father of All, Drip'racocha.
@@estebanatachaoarguedas6321
And of course the great Rizz'a Yupanqui; Freshest Prince of all the Andes.
@@DCdabest ApuLITmac couldn't handle that, fr.
These puns are hilarious 😂😂
Non-HC Civs: We don't have Hand Cannoneers.
Incas: *We have Hand Canonneers at home.*
PACHAMAMA BLESS THE INCAS
R O C K
B Ö N K
Ballistics used to be big before the Gunpowder projectile speed was improved.
The biggest selling point of Slingers is actually how hard they destroy Eagles.
Specially because many players go greedy and try to close the distance
And Huskarls. I always laugh my ass off when I go 1v1 against a goth player.
Watching right after Hera's victory using Incas against Teuntons. Just countered a booming Cavalry + Infantry push at Imperial with E-Kamayuks + mass Slingers as rearguard.
Slingers: making geology lethal since the middle ages.
Even before that, in ancient times Balearic Slingers were better than archers!
"Rock be upon ye"
more like since the Neolithic
In the middle ages, they evolved to the trebuchet which is basically a siege version of a slinger.
@@MrAllmightyCornholioz new unique tech for the incas: Tupac revolution, upon researching transform all your slingers into trebuchets, trebuchets now cost the same as a slinger and can be produced in the archery range
8:36 The Slinger is better then the hand connoneer ... "And I have numbers to back that up" Off course this is a spirit of the law video.
To be fair, slingers shot did evolve over the ages to become more dangerous and aerodynamic i.e. the upgrades kinda make sense…
Except it's really more a matter of moving from raw stones to shaped stones or bullets made from clay or lead.
@@micahbush5397 I was hoping for roman slingers instead of archers. Balearic slingers wouldve been great, even as a simple reskin
@@Dave_The_Musical_Fisherman Really, most civilizations should have slingers, since slings were used throughout the Middle Ages.
Staff slingers were deadly and been used deep into the middle ages in Europe, kinda like a mini trebuchet?
@@introboy1 and gunpowder, african and meso civs shouldn't have it, mesos shouldn't have siege engines either. they didn't git gud the way the other civs did historically
I feel like them ignoring pierce armor (partially) would be a better unique tech. Since they technically deal blunt damage.
I think that would instantly make them broken. However maybe the partially bit could be interesting. Maybe ignore 1-2 pierce armour. To make them a little armour piercing but not making them more OP against low armour units.
Or maybe giving them ignore armour against certain units
Maybe have the obuch hability to crush armor
Or a charge attack of 8
Maybe they could do melee damage at range as well
Inca already strong as hell, let slinger be anti infantry
you know it’ll be a good day when you start it off with a SOTL video
I end one with it.
Historically, some slings did fire fletched ammo, as some of them lobbed darts
Marginal case, but Slingers are nuts against Armoured/Siege Elephants, ever since those two units lost their Ram class armour
I was amazed last video to learn that the Kamayuk isn't just a better version of pikes, and now I learn that the Slinger isn't entirely one-sided, either. That's great to hear! I love playing Incas, and used Slingers and Kamayuks only in a reactionary way. But both together seem like a great army composition already, together with some eagles against siege and massed archers.
That is pretty much my incas composition. Not a big fan of the arbalester inca.
I love the American civs for how unique they feel compared to the rest. Definitely have their own flare and style.
I have the same feeling for them.
i always try to eagle warrior + unique unit only beat a game, to make them feel even more different to all other civs^^
Same and it took me a while that I have a biased toward using meso civs
Aztecs are my most favourite civ. I combine mostly skirmishers, eagles, jaguars and monks to make a typical Aztec army.
I really wish Aztecs could be updated. I just believe they should be stronger than they are. Would also love to see some unique militia-line models more-inline with Mesoamericans also.
I still think Incas should be named as a defensive civilization instead of infantry
Infantry +1 Civ.
Infantry offense, counterplay defense.
I think all the Americas civs should get the Slinger. It should be a regional unit. Andean Sling should be an archery range for Slingers that all of these civs would get, and Inca Skimishers should have no minimum range as a Civ bonus, instead of being part of that unique tech.
I'd also like to see an all of the americas civs have a Crossbowman/Arbalester replacement, like how Romans now have a Twohanded Swordsman/Champion replacement. It never made sense for them to have Crossbows, but I accepted it as a limitation of the game. Now that the convention has been broken with the Romans replacing the militia line partway through, the same should happen to the Archer line for the Americas civs, and maybe even a few other civs, like the mongols. Do it wherever it makes sense.
I love you Incas, as always finding counters for everything
It's strange in hindsight that slingers are a unique unit and not a regional one. If the Incas were added by a DE expansion it's hard to imagine Aztecs and Mayans (and maybe even others) wouldn't have gotten slingers too.
Yeah, most Mesoamericans used slings and atlatl over bows
I think that too, Slingers should be a regional unit for Mesoamerican civilizations along Eagle Warriors...
If we really want to be accurate, then most or all civilizations should get slingers, since slings continued to be use throughout Europe in the Middle Ages.
@@micahbush5397 Not for warfare though, that is the big difference.
@@micahbush5397 well at the same time if we want to be accurate, slingers and crossbows wouldn't stand a chance against archers on open field.
It seems like the Imperial Design for Slingers is benefiting from the unique tech of extra armor. Full Blacksmith techs is still pretty good, espically since the arb upgrade doesn't increase range
Also, you could make the argument that the extra attack of the Imperial Age upgrade gets handed to you an age earlier with the castle age tech.
I was surprised how well they perform in Imp with these tests, since I was thinking their big weakness is that they can compete with xbow in castle but don't get an upgrade in Imp. The fact that they're competitive even if a bit weaker is solid for them!
They wont save you if you are loosing, but they will let you keep the adventage if you are wining
'Spirit of the Law' actually has a really nice Spirit, which in the Latin word 'Spiritus' means breath of life - He explains and presents everything so nicely and peacefully about such a beloved game that it is very pleasant to behold!
Thank you for the video! Your content is amazing!
Entertaining as always 👏👍
Your videos are both antidepressant and mood-stabilizer at the same time!
Yeeees I love the consistent uploads
i was waiting the fight between slinger and hand cannoner 11 now i must try it on the editor
I'm been wanting this
With the new "stance change" mechanic that exists in the game, there should be a stance change on Slingers so that instead of slinging rocks (with fletching) at enemies, they sling resources (with fletching???) at allies. A true slingey boi.
Lol the rock with Fletching kills me xD I must be infantry
The attack delay of 0.8 seconds makes them hard to micro and hit and run - 0.9 sec being the attack delay of cav archers. That is definitely a big point against there use and shouldnt big neglected...
Hi Spirit, thanks for a great video!
QUESTION: what is the furthest range you can make a projectile travel? Not just what unit has the longest range (I think that's God's Own Sling), but can you make a projectile travel further by tracking with balistics? Maybe a portuguese cannon galleon can hit a target that is moving away from it really fast at range 23,24,25?
I once read that back in the days (before the gun) that 70% of all ranged troops were slingers. I think this was talking about the area around the Mediterranean, but was also very common in some other locations too. Because everybody owned one and knew how to use it, and a fist sized rock travelling fast can really hurt.
Slingers were extremely deadly, much more than people think. If you are hit in the head it wouldn't hurt - you would be too busy shaking hands with your maker to notice.
Slings went out not because they were not effective, but because of economics. its cheaper and faster to train people on those early bows than a sling.
@@Aarlaeoss Yeah slings did have their issues, you need a lot of space to use a sling compared to a bow, and I think they are better if you have a straight shot at enemy as opposed to arcing their flight path. I don't think they would go well in a professional army.
Often these 'skirmishers' would of been a huge part of most armies though, as you can only kit so many people out in full military gear. I think Alexanders army was like 2/3rds skirmishers, despite the fact everyone talks about the phalanx and companion cavalry.
@@Aarlaeoss Also, you have to carry around heavy rocks for a sling, whereas you can carry around 100+ arrows pretty easily in a quiver
@@jazzabighits4473 This is true but slingers do have the benefit of finding ammo wherever they go. Don't usually find arrows on the ground
Awesome ! 👏
"Good old rock, nothing beats that!"
Goliath: "yep"
I would love if you made this so perfect informative game analysis for Heroes of Might & Magic 3!!!
Nice new vid
good job ^^
Kamayuks + Eagles + Slingers = Anti Cavaly+Archer+Infantry fun
Can't believe you missed the biggest upside to slingers: style points. They're one of the coolest looking units in the game!
if the animation was better i would agree. as it is right now they are nicely clothed amateurs, just like huskarl. larp civs.
Nice video, just a little mistake at 6:18 with the wood price.
Eyyy... You never underestimate a rock with fletching.
All American civs should have access to Slingers tbh, considering they have no cavalry line they need the extra units to make them more viable!
like every indian civs hav elep-archer, meso gets slinger, europaa with ca archer
@@aquajasayes, exactly!
At 6:35 it says comparison 68 vs 70 resources but it looks like crossbows are 80 resources
Thanks for the video!
I dont even play age of empires 2 anymore but i love watching these videos
We missed an important clip.
How do Slings fare against infantry that counter them vrs the hand cannoneer.
Against what compositions should Incans ignore the sling to fight with other units? Can they fight the goths effectively with a bit of forward melee fodder keeping the Huskarl out of direct contact, or is it just a losing battle?
Hand cannoneers can do it, takes a lot of forward bulk but it works.
"And I have numbers to back that up" yeah we never doubted that
3:50 Look at that viking, still standing after taking 20 arrows to the face
"Bringing a rock to a gunfight"
Slinger's would actually shape their rocks into projectiles called bullets. That being said, "bullet" merely translate to "small rock" 😂
Roman slingers also made bullets out of lead
And put sassy inscriptions just to salt the injury even more
I really like the thought of pre-colonization rock throwing men can beat Teutonic Knight, who for some reason have a post-singularity invulnerability cape.
Good video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Slinger get the bonus of Food discount for the Incas? The description says "military units" and it's possible they get a better cost effectivenes in the game. Helping to mass and part of the cost will go to other troops.
"How God are Slingers?"
"Yes!"
"Not a bad result for bringing a rock to a gun fight, though that rock DOES have fletching." I fukn died SotL
hey spirit, i think some others and i would like a video comparing the woad raider to the swordsman line, now that celt longswords get +1/+1 armor to the wad raider now because of gambesons.
As a dedicated Inca lover, I think everyone's forgotten that they used to have 5 base attack, was nerfed, and andean sling is just retroactively giving it back to them gated behind a tech. The thumb ring nerf hurts, especially against non infantry targets, but with the new food discount they invalidate incan xbows/arbs just as much as they used to. I say it once and I say it again, they've done my incas wrong. The civ identity is strong unique units with no eco bonus, with a focus on good tactics (speedy eagles and kamayuk formations). After all of this I'm OK with andean sling, if we need to gatekeep slingers a little bit for balance then so be it. Make couriers a civ bonus that replaces the food discount, and have it apply to kamayuks and slingers as well.
Roman Slingers in the early Iron age Used Lead to make slings projectiles. Making them aerodynamic and dense like a bullet. And they wrote offensive comments on them. So yes Slingers do get fletching.
I just merked a ton a of tectonic knights with Inca slingers.
"We're going to add fletching to a rock."
"How does that work!?"
"We're also going to research chemistry to set them on fire."
"Wot?"
I just saw Hera play with Kamayuk backed up by slingers. It was a deadly combination against infantry/cavalry civs. Then if you go against archer civs you can go slinger/Eagles and have one hell of a advantage.
Even against archers, Kamayuk with fabric shields are insanely resistent. Not as much as an Eagle, of course, but making the switch is easier that way since you won't be dying as easily.
Slingers are probably my favourite unique unit, and maybe one of the reasons why the Incas are one of my favourite civs. Sure the Incan army is very gold intensive, but Kamayuks, Eagle Warriors and Slingers is a glorious combination!
Selling your extra stone is one way to keep gold flowing, other than having a ton of villagers on gold everywhere on the map.
Onagers are their real weakness (along with Kamayuk) but luckily they get redemption monks with block printing as well
Incas got way better overall with the update.
Cant say the same about aztecs and mayans.
that's because Incas were not in a good spot before, being the weakest of the three, now they are actually on par, if not in certain situations better.
Incas were a bit better than Aztecs and Mayas for most of the HD period, but since DE they got several nerfs (villagers armor, slinger -1 atk, llama & Eagle less LOS, etc. plus the useless team bonus), so they lost their spot and started to perform less good, now they became better again.
It seems strange to me that slingers are anti-infantry specialists in aoe2, but anti-archer and anti-building specialists in aoe1
Mr. Spirit, i have a super important question: have you considered the - 33% bonus dmg. reduction from the sicilian serjeant during the footage where the slingers shoot the unique infantry units?
I say he did considering the Serjent took the same amount of time to kill as a Teutonic Knight.
Huskarls: Even castle fires can't stop us
Slingers: Hold my beer
Spanish: Metal! Metal! Metal!
Incas: Rock! Rock! Rock!
I only noticed now buth where did the spirit of the law intro with guitar music go? :(
Spirit posts
Day instantly better
Not gunna lie, i totally thought this video was going to be about the AoE 1 Slingers. I'm glad they decided to not have the AoE2 Incan ones not cost stone like the old ones did. I mean, it kinda makes sense, but is also dumb. Imagine building so many of them that it'd be the same as throwing a Castle or two at the enemy! XD
"...but those rocks have fletching."
🤣🤣🤣
6:18 when watching this fight, it's also important to remember that the arbalester is depicted as having full armor upgrades, which isn't a given, as armor tends to be prioritized much less for archers than for melee units. You could certainly make this argument the other way around, but a smart Incas player knows that they only need one more armor upgrade than the crossbow/arb player to trade just above evenly, which is why the extra armor from Fabric Shields becomes so impactful. It's important to have slingers as a back-pocket unit against enemy archers, as an opponent teched into champions tends to render eagle (and skirm) switches moot.
8:57 The line for slingers should flatten out at x > 9, as bonus damage ignores pierce armor. This actually puts the slinger at above the hand cannoneer for all pierce armor values unless your opponent is Sicilians, in which case the HC's base damage wins out the dps calc against champions and serjeant.
Bonus fun fact: As of Berserkergang being removed, Slingers are the only unique unit in the game that benefit from both of their respective civ's unique techs.
8:37 The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you!
Am I the only one who saw the fletching on the slinger stone and thought of nerf footballs? Man, Incan cookouts must’ve been wild.
I wish SOTL had also compared the slinger with the main infantry's butcher, the Jaguar warrior.
Everyone was too busy using the Plume Archers to notice this Civ being strong.
I haven't played in a few patches; was Thumb Ring nerfed, or just doesn't give the +attack speed for slingers specifically?
I think the line chart at 8:52 is wrong, after the target pierce armour is higher than 8,the damage per minute from slinger should remain the same. Since the slinger has only 9 attack damage.
Nope. He's specifically talking about infantry, which they have a damage bonus against.
Slingers: Deadly missile ready!
Not a bad result for bringing a rock to a gun fight, though that rock does have fletching. -SOTL 2023
Ballistics on slinger is the biggest thing that makes them a much better counter to infantry
I think what should be rememberd with slingers is that their cost isn't regular trashunit cost. They cost food and gold, which are the more expensive hard to get resources to get. Food is much more heavy resources to your economy than wood, so for slingers to be good it would make sense they are like crossbow with additional functionality. If they were just counter to infantry they'd have pretty tough time to be justified to be built over crossbows.
I think there is a mistake at 8:10: The attack for the Hand Canoneer is given as 17-6, but the Skirmisher has 8 Pierce Armour, so shouldn't it be 17-8?
It may be strange but for some reason I expect slingers to do better against siege than archers. Likely because they throw rocks and not arrows, but I suppose small rock does not beat big rock
Slingers are really good, but mostly in team games, so much so that in many tournaments there are special rules for slinging.
9:50 the real question here is how it compare to the specialize hand canoneer civs like hindu, or less specialized like burgundian? and how they deffend themselfvs against cav archer too?
One thing that is missing on this video is how well they perform against Condos vs Hand Cannoneers
Never understood them during my younger days. Even deemed them as discount archers for some reason.
Heck, even AoE2's Skirmishers were at the very least more obvious in their anti-archer role, but that might be me being somewhat older and wiser.
Edit: I was referring to the AoE1 Slinger, by the way.
Is there a specific reason for why you put the 90% accuracy in when compared to HC although the Incan player has probably picked up Thumb Ring at this point?
Also, when you brought up Mangonels as a counter to them, Mangonels can actually only kill one Slinger but a couple Crossbowmen with one shot, so Slingers are a bit better against them. Though, their frame delay is much larger.
Hey spirit of the law, guys here!
Upgradable Hand Cannoneers? Yes please.
never knew slingers where affected by all of these archers upgrades LUL
I aways saw them as an unit that you mix in whit your archers, espetially vs other american civs since they dont have cav and relly on eagles.
I noticed that in your math vs the hand cannoneer you were using its 90% accuracy number, not its fully upgraded 100% number from thumb ring. Is there a reason for that I'm not understanding, or was that an oversight?
Bodkin rock
When you get really good at a slingshot, the Rock buzzes, and you can ricochet it off the ground like a bullet
And people and animals can't defend against it, I just throw a huge rock high in the air on top of them. I used to do that with a bow and arrow hunting squirrels when I was retarded lol sorry squirrels. There's abb one living in my house, and I'll b ****ing off and it will walk in my room, and I'm like dangit!!!😁😁
It's like.. what kind of nut 🥜 is he eating?....🐿️🐿️🐿️
i don't get why Aztecs and Mayans doesn't have Slingers
Fun fact: I almost lost my slingers yesterday to wolfs in amazon forest. They went each in their own, not possible to attack because of the minimum range.
Are people now using infantry at all like the patches seem to push?
would be interesting to see slingers completely replacing the archer line for inca (and maybe even aztec and mayans), cause them having frigging crossbows simply doesnt make any sense.
The nemesis of huskarls.
Microsoft really have to thank sotl throughout all these years for promoting the game