This is one of the reasons why I love the Dead Space remake. Issac talks when other people talk to him, but in normal gameplay, when he’s by himself, he rarely speaks, and when he does, it’s always just an exclamation to himself, similarly to how we talk to ourselves in real life. Most of the time, he’s only grunting and breathing heavily when running away from or fighting enemies. I prefer voiced characters, but not when they give constant commentary over gameplay, and the Dead Space remake is a game that doesn’t do that.
This is why I love games where the main character doesn’t speak. Like in Elden Ring, the writing is excellent because its only goal is to build the world around you, no need for random one-liners from the Tarnished.
@@Comicbroe405 I totally agree and yeah games where the mc speaks can still be great if done well but especially recently there’s been so much more good writing in games without them speaking like elden ring, zelda or hollow knight
I think it's less about the main character not talking and more about what the function of the dialogue is. Like you said, games like Zelda or ER have a lot of world building and a bit of character work and that's where it starts and ends. But far cry 5 has a silent protagonist and it still has full on conversations which can be poorly written, and even if you aren't necessarily talking in combat you're probably hearing enemies yell stuff out constantly. Portal 2 has a silent protagonist but it's a super jokey/quipy game which is something you usually associate with a chatty protagonist (and it's writing is amazing). I just hate when games write things for writings sake
@@AsadAnjumTake an opposite example like both Red Dead Redemption games, they all have giga tons of dialogues for smallest things, but everyone loves both main protagonists.
I totally agree! It's nice to see someone actually critically analyze this. I know a lot of the comments say blanket statements that all games should just do "[insert game] style writing", but you actually take context into account. The problem isn't a voiced protagonist or a quippy one... it's how they are doing so, when, and why. Not every writing style works with a silent protagonist. The two examples that come to mind are Metro and Dishonored 1. Two franchises I love dearly, but man is it bizarre when the protagonist is in a full conversation with people they love and there is no response. And yet, other people respond as if the protagonist said something. You just can't write a normal conversation and not have the character talk. The writing must adapt to a silent protagonist. Notice how Half-Life, Zelda, Soulsborne games, Bioshock, etc. don't write the same way as Uncharted or Wolfenstein. Characters just don't talk the same way. In the former games, dialogue may be even less "realistic", but it works for their styles just as well as the latter games' dialogue works for their styles.
I really like what Yakuza 7 does, where the characters will have conversations with eachother in certain parts of the map. Its an actually nice detail they added
Great video. I would add that the Forspoken's "witty" dialogue feels cruel and combative, whereas Uncharted's wit isn't ever really mean. It was difficult in Forspoken to be around characters who seemed to not want to be in their own game. Nathan Drake is always having a good time.
So like I think it's a matter of consistentcy in general rather than the writing itself. The problem with Forspoken is that it's written to be a thought felt narrative with a girl having issues in her life and sent to a gritty and hopeless world. But then she's quipping on things that aren't relevant rather then focusing on what's important. I don't think there's anything wrong with how something like High on Life is displayed, that matches on what that game's setting and world is to be. Cringe or odd dialogue can work for example something like Re4, where Leon reacts or quips at something very outlandish or some argue out of character but this is very much consistent because Resident Evil isn't set to be 100% serious dark and gloom horror as with it's supernatural nature or ridiculous plotlines. Atomic Heart has a similar issue as Forspoken, not just with it's dialogue but art direction, narrative, and characterization. I don't really like to bring Spider-Man in this discussion because I feel like he get's a pass because there's a expectancy of him acting a certain way with how long he's been around and rightfully so. I don't think there's wrong with reactionary / cringe or whatever dialogue some might call it, I just think it has to line up with everything the game is putting before you.
Consistency is a big thing yeah. I don't think that Freys quips are necessarily out of character, but they almost always have 0 connection to her exact situation. Most of what she says is designed to be recycled all throughout the game, so it says nothing about her current mindset or what she's seeing at this exact moment. Even if Leon's lines are a bit corny, at least he's usually making an observation about what's in front of him (although in RE2 especially there's a lot more recycled lines that sometimes don't fit in the places they're used)
I 💯 agree with you!!! I don't know why they do it. Horizon, God Of War, Forsspoken, etc. Games like Bloodborne, or something like that does dialogue perfect.
Let's not include GoW here. While Ragnarok was definitely more "quippy" it doesn't have that bad a problem as the other 2. The characters who shouldn't be the type to quip don't do it.
Bloodbornes style of dialogue is totally different. I think you can still write good quippy dialogue- uncharted and portal are great for example. Even if people wanna make fun of the MCU for their style of humor there are definitely movies where it's done WAY better than others (like infinity war) and I think those are genuinely funny. But you can tell when the teams just kinda throwing in the towel or pulling out cliches cause they couldn't think of something more original
There's maybe something to be said about the way the overabundance of movies and videos affect the way people talk. The whole 'shlick' of Forspoken might seem far more relatable to a lot of younger people coz of them always imagining "huh, I've seen so many movies, including those with 4th wall breaks. This whole situation seems like it could be from a movie or a video game and I'm gonna comment on that." Essentially commenting on stuff as if they themselves were in a movie or a video(game). Hopefully this made at least some sense coz ngl I'm pretty high right now
From my experience, Borderlands 3 is one of the games that have the same issues. Thankfully, it's mostly in the main campaign and is not so present in the endgame, the best parts of Borderlands 3.
You really made an entire video to defend Uncharted huh? :D I don't think it's really purposeless, or else we wouldn't see it in more and more games. Like yeah, if there's an option, they know it's an issue, but there has to be something else. And at this point I'm convinced it's because it playtests better. I'm sure they have concrete stats of engagements and know how to maximize it. If they see that people are more engaged when the character keeps talking, it's going to be in every game and there's nothing we can do about it.
Yessir :) I mean moreso purposeless in the context of the story. I know that they test this stuff and I'm sure more talking usually tests better for casual players than less talking. So it's existence itself has a purpose. But often times what's actually being written doesn't have a function in the narrative or doesn't offer any real insight. I'm sure if they showed a version of forspoken where the characters quips were at the very least in direct reference to her situation instead of being able to be thrown out at any time, it wouldve tested even better. A lot of games do the bare minimum with their dialogue and then crank up the amount of lines arbitrarily just because more dialogue is "proven" to be better for more players
Oh no the busy murderer doesn’t have time to come up with an original quip for the 4 dimensional creature observing it. 😅 what kind of criticism is this? I feel it’s about as bad as the dialogue u critizise
This is one of the reasons why I love the Dead Space remake. Issac talks when other people talk to him, but in normal gameplay, when he’s by himself, he rarely speaks, and when he does, it’s always just an exclamation to himself, similarly to how we talk to ourselves in real life. Most of the time, he’s only grunting and breathing heavily when running away from or fighting enemies. I prefer voiced characters, but not when they give constant commentary over gameplay, and the Dead Space remake is a game that doesn’t do that.
This is why I love games where the main character doesn’t speak. Like in Elden Ring, the writing is excellent because its only goal is to build the world around you, no need for random one-liners from the Tarnished.
Soulsborne games are crazy cuz despite the mc being an insert the world is still so beautifully written. Tho mc who speak aren't any less.
@@Comicbroe405 I totally agree and yeah games where the mc speaks can still be great if done well but especially recently there’s been so much more good writing in games without them speaking like elden ring, zelda or hollow knight
I think it's less about the main character not talking and more about what the function of the dialogue is. Like you said, games like Zelda or ER have a lot of world building and a bit of character work and that's where it starts and ends. But far cry 5 has a silent protagonist and it still has full on conversations which can be poorly written, and even if you aren't necessarily talking in combat you're probably hearing enemies yell stuff out constantly. Portal 2 has a silent protagonist but it's a super jokey/quipy game which is something you usually associate with a chatty protagonist (and it's writing is amazing). I just hate when games write things for writings sake
@@AsadAnjumTake an opposite example like both Red Dead Redemption games, they all have giga tons of dialogues for smallest things, but everyone loves both main protagonists.
You won me at misog- i mean, purpose
I totally agree! It's nice to see someone actually critically analyze this. I know a lot of the comments say blanket statements that all games should just do "[insert game] style writing", but you actually take context into account. The problem isn't a voiced protagonist or a quippy one... it's how they are doing so, when, and why.
Not every writing style works with a silent protagonist. The two examples that come to mind are Metro and Dishonored 1. Two franchises I love dearly, but man is it bizarre when the protagonist is in a full conversation with people they love and there is no response. And yet, other people respond as if the protagonist said something. You just can't write a normal conversation and not have the character talk. The writing must adapt to a silent protagonist.
Notice how Half-Life, Zelda, Soulsborne games, Bioshock, etc. don't write the same way as Uncharted or Wolfenstein. Characters just don't talk the same way. In the former games, dialogue may be even less "realistic", but it works for their styles just as well as the latter games' dialogue works for their styles.
Great work as always. It's actually crazy how the line between good quip writing & bad ones is so thin.
I really like what Yakuza 7 does, where the characters will have conversations with eachother in certain parts of the map. Its an actually nice detail they added
Don't worry, many people suffer with wearing grey hoodies, and still manage to live full, happy lives.
Thank you for your support 🙏
Great video. I would add that the Forspoken's "witty" dialogue feels cruel and combative, whereas Uncharted's wit isn't ever really mean. It was difficult in Forspoken to be around characters who seemed to not want to be in their own game. Nathan Drake is always having a good time.
Yeah that's a good point. Uncharteds feels more fun and forspoken seems like it's contractually obligated to make quips lol
I'm here for the Misogyny
I'm #1 misogynist you can quote me on that
I thought this was a big UA-cam channel, extremely high quality for such a small channel. I made sure to give you a sub
This is incredibly high quality editing. Good work you got the personality to make it huge on UA-cam keep up the good work!
So like I think it's a matter of consistentcy in general rather than the writing itself. The problem with Forspoken is that it's written to be a thought felt narrative with a girl having issues in her life and sent to a gritty and hopeless world. But then she's quipping on things that aren't relevant rather then focusing on what's important. I don't think there's anything wrong with how something like High on Life is displayed, that matches on what that game's setting and world is to be. Cringe or odd dialogue can work for example something like Re4, where Leon reacts or quips at something very outlandish or some argue out of character but this is very much consistent because Resident Evil isn't set to be 100% serious dark and gloom horror as with it's supernatural nature or ridiculous plotlines. Atomic Heart has a similar issue as Forspoken, not just with it's dialogue but art direction, narrative, and characterization. I don't really like to bring Spider-Man in this discussion because I feel like he get's a pass because there's a expectancy of him acting a certain way with how long he's been around and rightfully so. I don't think there's wrong with reactionary / cringe or whatever dialogue some might call it, I just think it has to line up with everything the game is putting before you.
Consistency is a big thing yeah. I don't think that Freys quips are necessarily out of character, but they almost always have 0 connection to her exact situation. Most of what she says is designed to be recycled all throughout the game, so it says nothing about her current mindset or what she's seeing at this exact moment. Even if Leon's lines are a bit corny, at least he's usually making an observation about what's in front of him (although in RE2 especially there's a lot more recycled lines that sometimes don't fit in the places they're used)
Popped up in my recommended, very good video :)
I 💯 agree with you!!! I don't know why they do it. Horizon, God Of War, Forsspoken, etc. Games like Bloodborne, or something like that does dialogue perfect.
Let's not include GoW here. While Ragnarok was definitely more "quippy" it doesn't have that bad a problem as the other 2. The characters who shouldn't be the type to quip don't do it.
Bloodbornes style of dialogue is totally different. I think you can still write good quippy dialogue- uncharted and portal are great for example. Even if people wanna make fun of the MCU for their style of humor there are definitely movies where it's done WAY better than others (like infinity war) and I think those are genuinely funny. But you can tell when the teams just kinda throwing in the towel or pulling out cliches cause they couldn't think of something more original
@@AsadAnjum Oh u replied! Cool I like your channel.
There's maybe something to be said about the way the overabundance of movies and videos affect the way people talk. The whole 'shlick' of Forspoken might seem far more relatable to a lot of younger people coz of them always imagining "huh, I've seen so many movies, including those with 4th wall breaks. This whole situation seems like it could be from a movie or a video game and I'm gonna comment on that." Essentially commenting on stuff as if they themselves were in a movie or a video(game).
Hopefully this made at least some sense coz ngl I'm pretty high right now
From my experience, Borderlands 3 is one of the games that have the same issues. Thankfully, it's mostly in the main campaign and is not so present in the endgame, the best parts of Borderlands 3.
Clearly someone who has never played Rakk Beastmaster and was forced to hear "POCKET RAKKS" every 3 seconds.
Borderlands 3 jokes go on so long and I just sit there uncomfortable waiting for them to end
@@tamathemaid7171 That's right, I have not played FLAK yet
You really made an entire video to defend Uncharted huh? :D
I don't think it's really purposeless, or else we wouldn't see it in more and more games. Like yeah, if there's an option, they know it's an issue, but there has to be something else. And at this point I'm convinced it's because it playtests better. I'm sure they have concrete stats of engagements and know how to maximize it. If they see that people are more engaged when the character keeps talking, it's going to be in every game and there's nothing we can do about it.
Yessir :)
I mean moreso purposeless in the context of the story. I know that they test this stuff and I'm sure more talking usually tests better for casual players than less talking. So it's existence itself has a purpose. But often times what's actually being written doesn't have a function in the narrative or doesn't offer any real insight. I'm sure if they showed a version of forspoken where the characters quips were at the very least in direct reference to her situation instead of being able to be thrown out at any time, it wouldve tested even better. A lot of games do the bare minimum with their dialogue and then crank up the amount of lines arbitrarily just because more dialogue is "proven" to be better for more players
Bring back silent protagonists. Please shut up c:
The MCU has been a disaster for the human race.
That wasn't what the video was trying to say dude.
@@Comicbroe405 don't care. I hate it
Oh no the busy murderer doesn’t have time to come up with an original quip for the 4 dimensional creature observing it. 😅 what kind of criticism is this? I feel it’s about as bad as the dialogue u critizise
Aye bro what do you mean by this?