Great video lots of great points.i feel like these little things aren't noticed when they are there because it seems natural to us however when they're missing something feels off. and people notice. if helldivers ragdoll wasn't as good as it was people would notice. I don't know how your not more popular yet. keep up the vids they are great!!
Totally agree, both that people would notice when the subtle details aren't there, and that this channel deserves to be more popular. Or maybe people wouldn't notice specifically, they'd just feel less immersed or enjoy the game less. These things can be subconscious.
Initially I had a section near the end talking about AI and how things like this would be one of the biggest differences in AI lead creations. They either wouldn't have details like this, or (aside from the initial feeling of being impressed) you wouldn't connect to these details at a personal level because you know it's not someone's actual work that went into it. Same way I still value a real person's painting over AI Art even if AI can produce some cool stuff. If expression is taken out of art then people will definitely notice, even if they can't put their finger on it exactly
I absolutely love ragdolls. One of the reasons I still love City of Heroes so much is its the only MMO I can think of that has ragdolls and it really gives the super hero powers some real heft to them. it didnt have it at launch, but comparing it to any other MMO, using any kind of ability with knockback feels amazing. Instead of them just moving back and getting a slow or whatever, they go flying and ragdoll and have to get back up. they even made entire CC abilities based around it. one of my favorite control abilities is an ice slick that just makes enemies trip on it over and over and everytime they have to scramble to get back up they are unable to do anything. its hilarious and effective.
Really enjoyed this one, and yeah I totally agree with the final message. I think I would put a bit more emphasis on the subconscious effects these subtle details can have on players, for good or ill. Those streaks on surfaces in Deus Ex help the world seem more lived-in, even if you don't consciously notice them. Inversely, broken physics or ragdoll effects can totally ruin my immersion. You touched on it a bit, but I think it's a pretty big deal. Also, I regularly watch two UA-cam video series of just goofy Helldivers 2 clips, many of which are based around goofy ragdoll physics and other insanity. Both channel's series have over 40 episodes and get over 10K views per episode. So in some cases, ragdoll can definitely contribute to a game's popularity. 😂 And one last point I'll make is that from what I've heard from friends who worked in the industry, working on a big team can sometimes come with a certain amount of down-time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those superfluous details or systems were the pet project of one or a few developers, who'd just tweak them a bit here and there when they had a bit of time throughout the game's 5 year dev cycle.
Yup, I was initially gonna talk more about broken ragdolls before I cut it down but I played Spec Ops again recently and seeing enemies fly around after getting shot in such a serious game was definitely an immersion breaker. And yeah, it's always nice to see small side projects/details work their way into bigger games, it just gives them an element of humanity you have to appreciate and enjoy. Even if it's not necessarily a "selling point"
Very interesting topic, again I liked how you built naturally upon a simple point. For ragdoll itself, I think it is pretty important, because humour is hard in games since you often can't control the timing. So slapstick is a good crutch in a way, you can be sure that at some point it'll be funny. And for a game like Helldivers II it seems absolutely necessary, I'm confident the game wouldn't have sold so well without it. For details though, I slightly disagree with your description (though yeah I agree with the conclusion). I don't think it's that much of an investment / something that doesn't make sense in the first place. I mean, those TLOU2 workbench animation seem kinda crazy yeah so idk for that but: - Teams on these games are huge, and production can be uneven, so maybe at some point some people have less work and they put it in "bonus" stuff - Devs are people too!! and while it's cool to see this as a player, it can also be fun for a dev to have a smaller project they can get working on a short timeframe with concrete results. I'm sure for a lot of devs those tiny details are a form of procrastination :D (but obviously not everything is) I mean you know how satisfying it can be to get something working right So while it can make sense viewed with crunch, I really doubt it's those small details that matter. There's even a chance these small things happen because devs needed a quick win. TLOU2 also had that rope physics and from what I remember it's just one dev obsessing over it on his own. Also, I do think pragmatically, those details are useful for the game. Because that's the kind of stuff that get shared on social media, and even if people might not care about that specific details, it shows the game to more people, and it says "look how much love we put into this, imagine the rest". I honestly think that's a rare case where everyone is winning.
Anyone willing to yap about ragdoll physics in games deserves a sub.
that ending got me feeling kinda emotional haha wasn't expecting the nice message 😅😅 great video!
Had to keep you on your toes
you remember that old ragdoll fighting game from like 11-12 years ago?! so fucking good
Great video lots of great points.i feel like these little things aren't noticed when they are there because it seems natural to us however when they're missing something feels off. and people notice. if helldivers ragdoll wasn't as good as it was people would notice. I don't know how your not more popular yet. keep up the vids they are great!!
Totally agree, both that people would notice when the subtle details aren't there, and that this channel deserves to be more popular.
Or maybe people wouldn't notice specifically, they'd just feel less immersed or enjoy the game less. These things can be subconscious.
Initially I had a section near the end talking about AI and how things like this would be one of the biggest differences in AI lead creations. They either wouldn't have details like this, or (aside from the initial feeling of being impressed) you wouldn't connect to these details at a personal level because you know it's not someone's actual work that went into it. Same way I still value a real person's painting over AI Art even if AI can produce some cool stuff. If expression is taken out of art then people will definitely notice, even if they can't put their finger on it exactly
I absolutely love ragdolls. One of the reasons I still love City of Heroes so much is its the only MMO I can think of that has ragdolls and it really gives the super hero powers some real heft to them. it didnt have it at launch, but comparing it to any other MMO, using any kind of ability with knockback feels amazing. Instead of them just moving back and getting a slow or whatever, they go flying and ragdoll and have to get back up. they even made entire CC abilities based around it. one of my favorite control abilities is an ice slick that just makes enemies trip on it over and over and everytime they have to scramble to get back up they are unable to do anything. its hilarious and effective.
One of my fave parts about souls games fr
That intro was an OOOOOLD ass reference and I love it
Really enjoyed this one, and yeah I totally agree with the final message. I think I would put a bit more emphasis on the subconscious effects these subtle details can have on players, for good or ill. Those streaks on surfaces in Deus Ex help the world seem more lived-in, even if you don't consciously notice them. Inversely, broken physics or ragdoll effects can totally ruin my immersion. You touched on it a bit, but I think it's a pretty big deal.
Also, I regularly watch two UA-cam video series of just goofy Helldivers 2 clips, many of which are based around goofy ragdoll physics and other insanity. Both channel's series have over 40 episodes and get over 10K views per episode. So in some cases, ragdoll can definitely contribute to a game's popularity. 😂
And one last point I'll make is that from what I've heard from friends who worked in the industry, working on a big team can sometimes come with a certain amount of down-time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those superfluous details or systems were the pet project of one or a few developers, who'd just tweak them a bit here and there when they had a bit of time throughout the game's 5 year dev cycle.
Yup, I was initially gonna talk more about broken ragdolls before I cut it down but I played Spec Ops again recently and seeing enemies fly around after getting shot in such a serious game was definitely an immersion breaker.
And yeah, it's always nice to see small side projects/details work their way into bigger games, it just gives them an element of humanity you have to appreciate and enjoy. Even if it's not necessarily a "selling point"
Would love more videos about niche or goofy stuff like this
They'll pop up every once In a while. Usually after videos that do really well so I can afford to ignore the YT algorithm for a bit 😅
Very interesting topic, again I liked how you built naturally upon a simple point.
For ragdoll itself, I think it is pretty important, because humour is hard in games since you often can't control the timing. So slapstick is a good crutch in a way, you can be sure that at some point it'll be funny. And for a game like Helldivers II it seems absolutely necessary, I'm confident the game wouldn't have sold so well without it.
For details though, I slightly disagree with your description (though yeah I agree with the conclusion). I don't think it's that much of an investment / something that doesn't make sense in the first place. I mean, those TLOU2 workbench animation seem kinda crazy yeah so idk for that but:
- Teams on these games are huge, and production can be uneven, so maybe at some point some people have less work and they put it in "bonus" stuff
- Devs are people too!! and while it's cool to see this as a player, it can also be fun for a dev to have a smaller project they can get working on a short timeframe with concrete results. I'm sure for a lot of devs those tiny details are a form of procrastination :D (but obviously not everything is) I mean you know how satisfying it can be to get something working right
So while it can make sense viewed with crunch, I really doubt it's those small details that matter. There's even a chance these small things happen because devs needed a quick win. TLOU2 also had that rope physics and from what I remember it's just one dev obsessing over it on his own.
Also, I do think pragmatically, those details are useful for the game. Because that's the kind of stuff that get shared on social media, and even if people might not care about that specific details, it shows the game to more people, and it says "look how much love we put into this, imagine the rest". I honestly think that's a rare case where everyone is winning.
Great vids