Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | AGOT Catelyn I | Breakdown & Analysis
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Breakdown and Analysis of chapter two in book 1 of the A Song of Ice and Fire Series, A Game of Thrones: AGOT Catelyn I.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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Ned would have explained his stance better to Sam at a young age. Randyll Tarly was so caught up in his victories on the battlefield that he forgot how life can be when one is not at war. Sam's use is met well by the Old Bear, Stannis, Jon and many "hard" northmen because they are tired of surviving by brute strength and also know that survival comes from unknowable angles/unforseen circumstances. Ned would be wise enough to know Sam's worth. He would probably send him to the Wall to work with Aemon sooner. But yes these men are hard...
I think he would have sent him to the citadel, but in general, you're right.
Listening to this analysis makes it more clear to me just how self absorbed Stoneheart was. But, it also made me realize just how emotionally distant Ned is with his wife. He asks only after the kids, not her, and sure, they have more than one kid, but I have to think that all of them were conceived out of mere duty. I could be wrong, but it's my observation on hearing how they interact together.
In the show, Ned always looks like he needs a stiff drink...after getting to see, know Catelyn's character, now I know why.
Imagine having to choose catlelyn over ashara and those purple eyes. Feel for ned
I wonder whether the other sons of noble families in the Night Watch also write to the home castles they left about what is happening with the Order of the Battle of the Watch (technically, a guarded military information), or is it a Winterfell privilege?
I think Ned would have seen Sam’s worth the same way Jon did. He’s not a fighter, definitely not an heir, but useful for his mind. He would have sent him to the citadel. (I’m not sure Ned know quite how corrupt it is)
It's interesting that Cat uses the same terminology to describe Ned's face and Winterfell's weirwood tree because the weirwood in Storm's End is also said to have a "solemn face". It's not conclusive evidence of anything on its own, but when combined with the description of Winterfell's weirwood and Ned seemingly feeding the tree, I've always suspected Ned kept to the old ways far more than he lets on.
20:39 It is recurring in the books that if a character isn't proven dead, they are probably alive. Never occurred to me that the stag wasn't explicitly stated being found dead.
Though the symbolism of the wolf dying and the stag dying is shown by Ned and Robert both dying.
I think it's also possible that Ned kept the blood upon his blade as a message, many of the commonfolk would see the blood if he took it some distance before cleaning it.
He wants everybody to know the he "swings the sword" after passing his sentence.
He would be demonstrating that he keeps the old ways and gaining respect in the process.
It seems like a slightly gruesome thing for Ned to do, but we are used to seeing him as a husband or father. He was and is a warrior, who leads a harsh land.
I don't know.
It would be cool if he was up to something in the weirwood but on this theory I favour a more human explanation :)
Thanks Dave and Mary Ellen. Merry Christmas.
Finally got time to have fun, watch a video, and get back what really matters 😉.
Milady! As you were talking it through I wondered the same thing about Ned and Cat's relationship. Does he just not talk to her about stuff?
Ned and Cat are the most functional relationship we see between a lord and his lady. I mean who else we got? Bobby B and Cersei, Stannis and Selys, Walder and whatever poor teen girl he's caught by the wrist.
And I think the reason why Ned and Cat are the best of a sad bunch is because Ned doesn't talk to her. He's already a pretty quiet man so I'm sure it wasn't hard. But Cat is so self-absorbed and also with her Southern point of view I feel like they would disagree a lot more if Ned tried to open up to her.
I think he gives her just enough or what he thinks she can handle. Like maybe he told her that's the reason he doesn't like the Lannisters because it's a reason easy enough for her to go along with. Her father hated Walder Frey for the same reason. He joined the cause at the end and her dad called him "the late lord frey" ever after.
I have a feeling it all started with her treatment of Jon. Ned is such a fair person and he is very kind for a high lord. There's no way he could watch this woman -for years!- mistreat his son and not develop some resentment and throw up some walls between him and Cat.
I think his reaction when she forces him to send Jon to the Wall says a lot. It's the most emotional we ever see him get and he was begging her.
No way. I think he cares about her as the mother of his children. But a lot of that relationship is just him paying her the respect she's due for her birth and position.
We never hear Robert address Cersei by her title. He calls her by her name. I remember reading Ned calling Catelyn "my lady" and thinking it was so formal. Nothing truly deep there and I don't blame him.
Ned would not have threatened to murder his own son…
He may have found a way to pass him over as the Heir of Winterfell… But he would not have threatened to kill his own son… And definitely would not have followed through.
While I agree, this is a hard world, run by hard men… Especially in the North. Ned would have found another way.
If he had a son like Sam. He would have allowed him to become a Maester or perhaps allow him to just renounce his claim and allow the next son to claim the Lordship…
I believe if Sam was given that option.. He would have let Dicken become the Lord and just done his thing and helped where he could… But, Randal wanted him GONE. Not just gone… Dead. I don’t see that in Ned.
I agree. I feel like he wanted Sam to go to the Wall because he hoped he'd get killed there and then Sam would be dead and he wouldn't have to worry about being a kinslayer.
An early Christmas treat! I wasn’t even a good boy. Lol! Merry Christmas y’all! 🍻
“Winter is coming” IS about the Starks.
I think the weirwood or no weirwood at Riverrun thing is a mistake.
Lady catelyn for all her faults had some of the best situational awareness. For example: she warned Robb about sending theon to pike. She was generally untrusting of walder frey and when they closed the doors at the red wedding she knew something was amiss. Btw I'm about a fifth of the way through the 4th book
Catelyn attempted to pass Ned’s order to keep Theon close off as her own advice. If she told Robb it was among the last things Ned said to her, he probably would have listened
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand do you guys think the grey rats will regret systematically destroying House Targaryen and knowledge of magic when euron arrives and kills them
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand also I think his battle against Hightower we will get monologues via him saying something what a pity the dragon 🐉 is no longer here to shield aye by your own designs and the will of my “god” you succeed in their destruction and by those ashes I/ we will rule thank for all your good work seven blessings “
@Shadow Ned literally referred to Jon as his son in the very first chapter of the series
The beginning of the end lol
While I agree that Ned would have been at a loss what to do with someone like Sam I wholeheartedly think that he would have been kinder.
There is a difference between being at a loss what to do and threatening to kill your own son. Hard men or not.
Youuuuu guuuyyysssss I am so stoked this is happening on the podcast. Thank you omgggg.
Option 1 stay where the ice monsters are who can freeze swords so they shatter
Option 2 run the f away and run the risk of having your head cut off
Ned Stark with a sword is less scary
Good video. I'm enjoying these uploads.
Nice content....love it
perfect timing
I love Catelyn so much.
Why though? Seriously. I'm not trying to start an argument, as a matter of fact, I won't even offer any rebuttals. I'm genuinely curious how someone can know her and still like her.
@@shawnlewis2519 ... Catelyn = Garbage!
@@shawnlewis2519 You're trying to start an argument.
How did Garrod get past the wall? Did he go back to Castle Black and then just keep going?
Loving this series
LOVE this new series! Thanks for the great content
There is a story attributed to King Solomon involving a gift that would make him sad when he was happy, and happy when he was sad. In the end the gift turns out to be a ring inscribed with, "Tbis too shall pass." (People always forget about the "sad when happy" part when they say it though). "Winter Is Coming always struck me as a similar saying, only there is no positive side of the coin. It can apply to the Others, but it can also just be the motto of a people that are constantly preparing for hard times, even when they're in the hard times. Winter is dependable, where people often aren't, and it will always be back around. Its pessimistic but also hard realism when even in a mild winter people can starve or freeze to death if they aren't ready. Its a reminder that they can't ever let their guard down.
I've been reading the books again. so isn't it Catelyn who said "there are darker things beyond the Wall." It's not clear though to be fair.
Ned: don't worry about Mance.
Cat: There are darker things beyond the Wall. *Glances at the tree
Ned: You have been listening to too many stories.
Like that.
a bit further on Cat: this man who put no faith in signs.
The idea is that Ned is logical not superstitious, while Cat is superstitious thinking the wolf and stag is a sign.
If I have to be in Septa Trout's head again I want you all to do the driving.
OOTGH!!!!!
excellent guys
When describing the crystal and the sword, do you think that it may merely be coincidence? What I mean is some people have phrases that they like to use repeatedly. Might this be the case?
You apologized for the short video, saying what more can you say about it? My answer is that you could have ragged on Catelyn more. I've always hated she and Sansa and I giggle like a school girl when you two start tearing into either of them. I'm not crazy about Dany either, especially because of her treatment of the wine seller's daughters and Groleo, but that's a different discussion.
Thank you for doing these chapter videos. I've enjoyed your theory stuff for several years now and these chapter videos scratch me right where I itch.
I'd still like to see your thoughts on Jaime and Loras and the Kingmaker bit, like I mentioned in a Facebook message.
My family have a crest with a helmet and crossed sabers with the moto" volo quad possum" we take ours... after GOT people think am lying trying to copy GOT hahaha 😂 am from a cadet branch that has been
Using the shield and motto since the spilt with the main line in the 1440s..so haters we predate the series by six centuries
Cat aka aptly named for how selfish a character she is and how little she takes responsibility for her actions on top of the envy she felt for Jon and her narrow minded vision on war and weight of promises.
Let's go down the road again for fun.
Why do you guys hate Cat so much 😂
That chapter is shorter than Ned's love making session.
the subject of catelyn's complaint is also revealing. she is uncomfortable in the North, does not feel at home there. it's a way for GRRM to show us the contrast between north and south w/out putting in too much exposition.
Great observations, as always. I noticed that Ned takes Garret out in the country and beheads the guy miles away from the weirwood. Bran's visions show sacrifices at the tree itself. But Ned denies this to the tree, bringing it a mere token of the blood that is its due. Plus, Ned faces away from the tree in the godswood; I've been in a lot of churches -- worshippers always face the altar, not away from it. Ironwood stumps, ironwood doors on the crypts... There's something off about Ned's so-called worship of the Old gods.
Gared was captured and held outside of a small holdfast in the hills, that's where Ned saw the King's Justice done. In the show, Ned leads him out to wherever.
Great observation! I tend to agree.
Interesting way of reading it. I don't think RR Martin is portraying her as a whinner, but as a woman in a position she didn't seek. But ey, the lens you see through paints the picture in the mind. I actually like her character, and i bet Martin likes her just aswell.
I had this thought when you were talking about Ned telling Catalyn not to worry and that The Others are long dead, made ne wonder do all Northern lords eventually tell their kids or at least heirs about the Others not really being truly gone, and activly keep it from Southerners out of worry of how they would react or out of an attempt to keep them bilissfully ignorant of the threat cause only they know how to deal with it.
No wonder Ned was so dour. He had to pass on Ashara for Caitlin.
Agreed. I feel sorry for Ned that he had to sleep with that fish wife to have heirs.
*Catelyn
Two points. One: It's not "complaining" to express an opinion to yourself in your private thoughts. Catelyn prefers the Godswood of her childhood home to the one at Winterfell. So what? Nostalgia is a normal human emotion. Also, while in King's Landing Ned is constantly thinking about how much he wishes he were back in the North. Does that make him a whiner? I'm not fond of Catelyn Stark, but I condemn her for her actions, not her feelings.
Secondly, GRRM has made a lot of changes to canon since the first book was published. For example, Tommen was described as having white-blonde hair in GoT, which was later changed to "golden". So the addition of a single weirwood to the Tully Godswood is completely possible.
My primary takeaway from the chapter is how cool Catelyn and Ned's relationship is. I mean, apparently whenever she approaches him, his kneejerk reaction is to ask about the kids. That sends the message that there's not much connection between Ned and Catelyn other than their shared parenthood of Catelyn's biological kids. Other than them having somewhat-mechanical sex with each other they're like a divorced couple who are civil to each other for the sake of the children. I suppose that's to be expected; it is an arranged marriage, after all. But Catelyn does give the impression that she considers marriage a set of rigid rules that both parties are supposed to follow, rather than something which involves actual emotion.
The way you guys hate Catelyn is the most brilliant funniest thing ever 😂✊
You should call it Stoneheart I!
Cat had been spied on by a weirwood for YEARS before realizing they think their long slow thoughts...hahaha!
I dont think the opening of this chapter is about establishing her character per se, so much as it is alluding to the difference between a godswood which is revered and one which is not. Even if her godwood had a weirwood tree if she was taught that it was just a tree it would be just that- but this godswood has had 8000 years of worship. This isnt a childs playground, its sacred land. And the tree itself is a link to the gods, and Catelyn feels it watching her. Now shes a pretty awful person so this is phrased as a complaint- but its also grrm giving us exposition that matters later but we hand wave because cat is a nag and easy to dismiss. Same thing with the omen about the stag and the wolf. Cat is right but we dont like her so we dismiss it as paranoia. And half of the asinine shit she does is because people dont listen to any point she makes, good or bad- because she acts so asinine. So to me its about establishing the premise to dismiss anything useful that comes out of her mouth.
Part of me wonders if shes inspired by the oracle Cassandra. Font get me wrong i dislike her as much if not moreso than cersi, but i also think that was planned for (if that makes sense)
My reign is just begun 🔥🐲👸🐉💥🐉
Bran 3 is his shortest chapter.
How are you going to say catelyn is self absorbed, she’s literally just going off the informations she’s been giving. So disappointing
She never even noticed her sister was completely in love with Littlefinger even though she was her basically her only friend. That is pretty much the definition of being self absorbed.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I see you're still hard on the irrational Cat hate boner you guys are made fun of in the whole fandom.
On first read / watch, I enjoyed pretty much everything at face value.
Seasons last much longer, and it's been summer for years. Interesting.
Every House has its words, and the Starks' are "Winter is coming." Dark, deep, complex and many-layered.
Doesn't it get old / absurd after a while, when it actually _is_ winter? "Umm, there are 11 feet of snow; I haven't seen the sun in a year, and just lost a second child to hypothermia. Any other brilliant insights you'd like to share, Milord?!"
To be fair, greatswords seldom have scabbards... Does not take away from the meaning of the blood sacrifice to the werewood
When you say the characters are always consistent, does lend evidence to your theory that Tormands inconsistencies are deliberately written in and are an act?
i never got that. why would you have a godswood w/o a weirwood?