Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | AGOT Catelyn III | Breakdown & Analysis
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Breakdown and Analysis of chapter fourteen in book 1 of the A Song of Ice and Fire Series, A Game of Thrones: AGOT Catelyn III.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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I love how Cat does nothing but keep a close on Bran, until someone tries to assassinate him... and then she immediately leaves, once she knows his life is in danger.
If George was trying to write a caring mother, he failed... but if he was trying to write a villain and trick the audience into thinking that he was writing a caring mother, then he wrote her masterfully.
I agree but she was completely ineffective in protecting bran, summer killed the assassin easily, and that is what snapped her out of it. Cat is the kind of person who needs to have the facts blatantly rubbed in her face in order to recognize them.
Interesting how cat says ned would die if he refused robert. Yet he dies exactly because he doesnt
ohh! i like that
I like how Catelyn is just gung-ho to kill Brain's wolf because it annoys her. If she really loved Bran, she'd know Bran loves his wolf. If she really loved Bran, she wouldn't even think of that.
that’s a good point
"Kill all the horses to make him open his eyes" - well, Dany tried this. Didn't really work.
Cat is basically the type who would get everything she wants and it still wouldn't make her happy. Same with wanting credit for something good she didn't do when the war begins and her "advice" is as good as something a child could tell you. Reflects real life people to a T
Rob being made to immediately become head of winter feel he shows he needed more time but was smart enough to ask for help but everyone left isn't that helpful. He did his best but being both Lord and father basically to rickon would get to anyone at his age.
I like the idea that Bran is Warging Cat subconsciously to protect himself and focus on him only, until Summer arrives and protects him then she is thinking clearly. The laughing is her mind basically rebooting after been warging. She is finally willing to give up her watch over Bran when Summer takes over.
This is just my reading of it but I've always understood the "a/ the" distinction to indicate things she found significant from that point forward. "The" knock that changed the course of her family forever. "The" man who tried to kill her favorite child, and caused her to go down to Kings Landing herself.
Oh wow I never thought of it like that before. I agree actually , it makes so much sense !
Crazy Catelyn is at it again
If I look back I am lost.
I really wish people would seperate the show Cat from the book Cat.
They are sooooo different, i wish they had named her something different in the show like they did Robb's wife 😆
Legit atleast the Cat in the show's is more understandable and heck in the show cat tries to dissuade ned making him choose between duty and his home. The book catelyn feels on par with cersie.
@@jackbelmont4389 Those two are basically the perfect foils for each other. Cersei is not that smart but has that low cunning. Cat is pretty smart but isn't that sneaky. Cersei is an overt narcissist, Cat is a covert narcissist. Both love their children, but Cercei wants absolute control over them while Cat "lets them go" a little too easily. I'm sure there are more.
In grief of Bran and absolutely NOT going to KL like she had hoped she might( like Lysa did when Jon Arryn was the hand.) I feel REALLY sorry for Rickon who is only three!!!
I love hearing y’all rip into Catelyn. Lol! I also really enjoyed the detail of the villainous voice. 😂 Great work as usual. 🍻
Seems weird that not one guard was left behind to guard Cat and Bran
More bashing of Septa Trout? Yes please.
It's wuickly become one of my favorite aspects of these
Yes! Some OOTGG to doze off to at 03:55am. Will listen again tomorrow after my appointment.
I look forward to these every week. Thanks you guys (the pup included!)
Catelyn episodes are always my favourite lol
Thanks Dave and Mary Ellen
'Cmon, you don't love Catelyn? What's not to like? She does what she's supposed to and is super nice, just give her a chance!
Me--->🙂🔫🤡👿👹
Is it plausible that Cat knew about the assassin coming for Bran (magically or any way possible) and was waiting on it? After that incident she turns back to her usual self.
As I listened to this I thought about Bran contacting her from the future and keeping her in grief so she stayed by his bed to protect him.
@@jasonjohnson9072 Also The Knock, The Man. Hints to her knowing of it i would say.
@@11101983omega exactly why I thought it.
Though I also think sometimes we give George too much credit. We drill down so much😂
I love asking Cat defenders to show me one time (books or show) where we see Cat being a mother (not even a good mother) to Rickon. None have been able to do so. Which is why it kills me to see people call her a good mother.
Do we also ever see a mention of Ashara Dayne in any of Ned’s chapters? The woman who’s supposedly the “great love” of Ned’s life? Some stuff just don’t need to be added when they don’t help progress the story in any way.
One of my closest friends lost her brother 17 years ago. Her mother even now is unconsolable for the three months leading up to the anniversary of his death “My life ended when he die. I have nothing to live for.” Is common to hear her say to her husband, three other children, grandchildren. She even has great grandchildren. But she was the type of person that was very self centered before. I always think of her in any cat chapter.
With regards to the 90 silver the assassin was paid to kill Bran, (Never mind that money in ASOIAF makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.) but let's not forget he also received a priceless Valerian steel dagger into the bargain.
“Family. Duty. Honor” HA!
Just another GreenHand Monday.. 🙌
Loving these breakdowns! Keep up the amazing work guys!!!
Love this!!! Great job as usual!!!
Love your channel! Thank you guys for all the great, informative work🙏🏽
Yes! Just in time for my coffee!
Loving this analysis series.
Catelyn in King’s Landing = the 17th at Sawgrass……. carnage! Haha.
I never thought about Cat breaking her own vow literally the NEXT CHAPTER…what a dumb move
Catelyn gets Lysa's letter, who is in kahoots with Littlefinger. She defends Bran from THE man, which leads to her saying Jamie thew Bran off of the tower and hired the cutthroat. She then gets to King's Landing DAYS before Ned and EXPECTS Littlefinger to summon her, though not as quickly as he did. She meets with him and Varys and although she doesn't trust them at all, tells them confidential information that not even Ned knows. She's at King's Landing for the rest of the time it takes the King's party to get there, Littlefinger being her main companion and telling each other who knows what. When Ned meets with her and her "allies", she tells him to trust Littlefinger, one of the people she trusts the least and happens to wand Ned dead so he can have Catelyn for himself. Conspiracy? Since she's unfortunately back from the dead, we'll have a chance to learn what she was really planning with Littlefinger and Lysa.🤔
I honestly think that LF could be tampering with her mind. Hence her erratic actions when she actually knows better.
I can’t believe I’m writing a defense of Catelyn but I believe she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown and doesn’t want to leave Bran’s side because she’s want to be there when he dies. She thinks she’s losing her favorite child so she wants to spend as much time with him as she can, when he is nearly assassinated she finally cracked that’s why she was able to sleep. In her mind the other 2 will be there, they are alive when Brandon is dying. Cat made many mistakes but this I can forgive. When my brother was in the hospital my mom didn’t leave the hospital until he was definitely coming home. So I can forgive this. Luwin should have appointed temporary people to the positions then got final approval later. After Rob left who was running the castle Bran, no, he was with Rodrick’s help.
I see your points but what was your mom doing at the hospital? There are many things a parent has to stay on top of when a child is in the hospital. Unfortunately I have been there done that. It doesn’t sound like cat was doing anything. Her lack of trying anything productive and the total Lack of caring for her responsibilities points to her making it about her not her child. As someone who was told that their child may die and that I should prepare myself, I think a breakdown is totally fine but to continue to wallow for weeks and letting your other children suffer because of it is unacceptable.
Genuinely loving this series
Willing to bet Lyssa and Littlefinger and Cat hatched a scheme to get rid of Ned permanently. That way, Neds secret marriage to Ashara dies with him, Robb becomes Lord of Winterfell, Jon goes to the wall, Lyssa gets Littlefinger, and Littlefinger climbs the chaotic ladder.
If Ned and Asharas marriage and Jons being trueborn becomes known, Cats children become instant bastards. She's willing to sacrifice a cold loveless marriage to get what she wants.
"No, don't cut my hair, Ned loves my hair..."
You really think this last dying thought is from someone who didn't love Ned?
@pete perkins...I think that's exactly what happened. When she received Ned's bones, at no point was she even a little distraught, her thoughts were about how Ned died with all his secrets...wtf! This delusional woman claimed to love her children & Ned yet her actions proved otherwise.
I didn't know about that storytelliing bit, about George deciding she's the one that has to go.
When I was reading this, the impression I got was that she wants to go.
She doesn't like the North and doesn't look like she ever got accostumed to it.
When she was persuading Ned to be Hand, she wanted to go with him and took it as a punishment when he said she was to stay.
She wants to be a player, she wants to be where the action is, she doesn't want to "just" be a mother hundreds of miles away from "civilized society".
And she wanted to beat Ned to King's Landing so she could be in King's Landing, the capital, for a while.
Greenhand and Catelyn, ever a study in motivated reasoning.
After Bran gets attacked
“Bring me some bread and honey” she tells her servants
What they bring her
Before she could answer, the servants returned with a plate of food fresh from the kitchens. There was much more food than she had asked for: hot bread, butter and honey and blackberry preserves, a rasher of bacon and a soft boiled egg, a wedge of cheese, a pot of mint tea
They went above and beyond for her.
Hey, can you watch Bran while I eat/clean myself up/sleep/whatever. They would have gladly done it for her/Ned/Bran
I know Joffrey sent the catspaw after Bran as a foolhardy attempt to impress Robert, and- as you guys noted- that Littlefinger likely produced the catspaw and gave him additional instructions separate from Joffrey's plan; so I have to question how much total influence LF had here. Like did he subtly manipulate Joffrey into ordering the hit on Bran by playing on Joff's desire to impress his "dad", or did he coerce Joff into certain things once he learned of Joffrey's desire...
Say it all to say, I wonder if killing Bran was meant to stop Ned from coming to King's Landing (from Joff's perspective) and when that didn't work, Joff might've planned to kill another Stark child to stop Ned. Like say, by getting Sansa drunk and staging her drowning. Of course LF wouldn't actually want to stop Ned from coming; he'd want to take advantage of the chaos that resulted from the attempts to stop Ned. Attempts he furtively goaded Joff into. I have no evidence to support that other than it seems like something LF might do. All it would take is a private word w/Joff about how bad Ned's arrival would be for the Lannisters; maybe plant the seed that Ned intended to use his daughter to steal Joffrey's throne/power, and Joff-not known for his critical thinking- took the bait. There is that hidden influence GRRM alluded to also...anyway, excellent episode as always💚🤚.
Except that Littlefinger was in King's Landing when Joffrey decided to euthanize Bran in a twisted attempt to make his father proud of him, so I can't see how Baelish had any impact in that particular Very Bad Idea. Not that it makes any sense to start with, because Joffrey would have had to tell his father what he'd done to get the desired paternal approval, which would mean confessing to murder. This doesn't seem to have occurred to him any more than "Giving the proposed assassin a very expensive and recognizable dagger is a big mistake." Well, that's what you get with inbreeding.
interesting Stat, there are 339 chapters in a song for ice and fire, your average is 1 per week, 339 weeks, which is 6.4 years, with the new news from GRRM i hope we get winds long before then lol 😀, can't wait till you get to bloody Nimble Dick Crab, shit that's another stat lol
thank you for doing that calculation !!! love it!!
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I thank you, just can't wait for the day you decide to do olde nimble, he's a honest funny man. which i know will give @sir probably knightmare's, i can hear that deep laugh coming already, give him a few beers first lol, and yes we do want the blooper reel as well ❤
What do you think was cat’s worst mistake during the war of the 5 kings?
starting it.
Not going home and being a mother to her 2 youngest children (who needed her the most).
Hey guys, a quick question. Why were Jaime and Cersei in the old Castle in Bran's chapter ? (obviously doing their thing) but my question is why in the old Castle ? They could've done it in their solar and no one would dare ask the queen questions or peep. And how did they get their? According to Bran, it is an abandoned place no one comes here, how did two people who never visited the place find the old castle and how didn't anybody see them go there ? Not to mention that they attract extra attention being the queen and her royal brother/king's guard.
I hope you can enlighten us with some quick discussion
It’s abandoned and they probably thought it was the safest place to do it
@order of the green hand anyone else feel like Catelyn spent so much time with Bran because she expected a visitor. she didn't know when so she refused to leave. but she didn't expect an attempt at brans life. similar to her expecting the knock on the door. I think littlefinger was already playing a game with catelyn, and she was too self absorbed to understand the game.
What do you guys make of Mance sending the catspaw? He doesn't need to know the political workings of westeros, all he's doing is using Robert's dagger to kill Ned's son (who is a cripple and free folk think it's cruel to keep him alive) hoping for Winterfell's army to be south by the time the invasion happens. Makes more sense than Littlefinger who can't know of Bran's fall yet. let alone arrange a catspaw in such a short timeframe.
He also had a pouch of silver, iirc. So it was a very good theory until even George confirmed that it was Geoffrey. Not to mention, I don't know if Mance is the type to hire assassins...
@@neriumsuitedher from what I understand George only confirmed that the issue of bran's assassination will be resolved in ASOS, and it's in that book we get to know of Mance's adventure South.
@@neriumsuitedher His plan was to hire the assassin and for him to get caught to reveal the dagger and he thought people would just know it was Roberts's, because if he does it he knows how to get out of the situation, now I grant you, he probably did not plan on Catelyn staying there and catching the catspaw, but he knew to hire a fool that would eventually get caught drinking somewhere or bragging somewhere about this.
In George's ASoIaF app, he confirms that Joff sent the catspaw.
Hi guys!
Honestly, I DON'T see where it makes sense to go from, "A crazy begger armed with a pricey dagger just tried to kill a comatose child" to "Therefore Bran didn't fall, Jaime Lannister threw him!" I don't think I questioned it when I first read it, because we knew that was precisely what happened. But looked at objectively, that's a hell of a leap for Catelyn to make. I mean, she got the message Lannisters = bad from her sister's letter, and I suppose Jaime is physically the most likely Lannister to have assaulted Bran, but it's still speculative as hell.
It disappoints me that GRRM chose a female character to carry the idiot ball to make plot happen, but it doesn't surprise me. That does seem to be his modus operandi.
I feel like all the servants in Winterfell would gladly sit by Bran’s bed and watch him and feed him etc and take shifts for Catelyn
Those servants probably love Bran too.
Obviously THE SECOND Bran woke or moved or ANYTHING they’d go running to Catelyn
Cersei’s servants wouldn’t do it for her, or say, I don’t know, Lysa’s servants, but the people of Winterfell would gladly do that for BRAN and for NED.
A mother in grief, one whos son was about murdered 2 times and yall talk about her like this? If this was a real life situation how would you feel? Hopefully nothing like this happens to either of yall.
Chill... This is a book discussion and analysing character traits is a part of it.
@@Peacich honey I am as chill as can be....understanding too....they aint taking things into account...such as shock, grief and such...look at all the changes that happen in quick order leading up to this
You're trolling right?
A mother in grief who ABANDONS her other children, to do nothing for TWO WEEKS save sit there and watch her comatose son (not even care for him, just watch him) until he gets attacked... and then she immediately abandons him as soon as she finds out that the Lannisters want him dead.
Best part is she doesn't even decide to fix her bad decisions after she's had a good night sleep. Like this woman is seriously throwing!
@@harambe8459 by nothing I guess you are including fighting off the guy that came to finish the job huh? The woman whose husband and girls left after Brans fall and her oldest son put in charge...so folks should not go to hospitals to visit loved ones now? It would be nice if everyone could keep it together and not let emotions run them but that isnt reality now is it?
As a parent that has had to watch their child on a ventilator and a feeding tube hooked up to more machines then I can name. I can wholeheartedly agree with The green hands breakdown of this chapter. Cat was consumed with herself. She couldn’t even hold her baby? I spent as much time as possible with my daughter but my autistic son still needed me too. I think Ned leaving before things were settled was ridiculous but that doesn’t excuse her.
OOTGH!!!!!!!
Tinfoil as I’m listening to this. It’s prob been said but I’m not on any forums.
What if Bran is influencing Catelyn from the future. He keeps her in inconsolable grief so she is there when the Catspaw arrives.
The more I hear the more I think cat was sent to destroy the starks and north if the faith of the seven couldn’t have control
Could please tell me where can i find the audiobook free??
There is no way anyone is convincing me Joffery hired the catspaw. Littlefinger has his signature all over this.
In George's ASoIaF app, he confirms that Joff sent the catspaw.
I have chronic insomnia and you can go long without sleep my "record" is 9 days and I was laughing at the wall and was batshit insane..
Three and a half days and I was tripping.
That's CRAZY!!! I've gone 5 days and i'm not sure i was using words correctly at the point lol. But I did have that super-tired-energy. It was like a sugar high, cuz when I crashed, I was out for like 28 hours straight.
Just had a PnP-Char die and thoughts won't stop. You give a supreme distraction. Hopefully I'll find some soothing Catelyn hate here :)
Cersei is a better mother than Catelyn. Granted, she has no other redeeming traits, but Cersei wouldn't abandon Tommen and galavant off to Dorne or Braavos. Catelyn is the worst.
I would argue that it would have been better for Tommen if Cercei just galavanted off to Asshai.
love it !
Cersei never stops fighting to maintain a hold on ALL of her children. Most of the crazy pants shit she does is to hold onto her kids. For as absolutely bananas and evil Cersei is, she’s way more likable than Cat. Cersei is, at the very least, entertaining. Cat has no redeeming value.
I'm sorry, m'lady, but you misused "piquant"
interesting ! i don’t even know what word you mean! sometimes i make up words ! 😂
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand
I wish I had included a timestamp 🤷♂️
Hi guys loved the breakdown, as always. But here's a passing thought, when the assassin came into the room and said she wasn't supposed to be there it hit me how unnaturally aligned things were. No one to take care of the stables, they don't even have that many horses at that point and the lack of security. I know you think little finger is behind some or all of that but to me it screams (at least now it does) that there's an insider on it as well. Now my conclusion is this, since the letter to Cat, which is very suspicious as is the thing that actually made sure Ned would go hence all the pieces align (lil finger influence is there as we all know) but as good little finger might be it's just too perfect. And since Cat seemed to be working with Maester Luwin as if it's all planned from the start, I think either she was in on it but not the assassin part. Or that our lovely grey rat was in on it all. Including bran getting killed.
The maester, allowing his precious library to be burnt down? Not to mention how he protected Bran and Rickon from Theon... How he made sure that Osha would protect Rickon...
First
Heheheheheh
I think you guys are reading way too far into this "a/the" thing.
I wonder if this is something that GRRM did for gardening that didn’t come to full growth