Adding a Rip Scale to a Shopsmith 520 and a SawSmith 2000 Table Saw
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2023
- ✅ SHOP NOTES: Yes, there WAS an issue with the ripping scale on my SawSmith 2000, so let's fix that and talk about a funky scale that Shopsmith made for the 520 fence system.
🛒 Here's the FastCap peel and stick fence scale, which can be applied used on chop saws, miter saws, table saws, workbenches and more. amzn.to/4aDuoce
🛒 Link to the Taylor Design Group INCRA Gauge on Amazon: amzn.to/3qqbpwJ
✅ Visit www.MyGrowthRings.com and join the conversation by becoming a FREE Channel Member! Details under "Explore Channel Membership".
#Shopsmith #FastCapFenceScale #SawSmith2000
Scott… I don’t want to fiddle with a scale mounted on the machine. After years of setting the fence using a steel rule, it has become second nature to do it the way you showed. (Affix it close then fine adjust with the quill.)
There are a couple of things that I have learned…
1. Not all tape measures are accurate. If you pick up a half dozen tapes from around your shop and measure the same width, you’ll be very lucky to get the same measurement. They are not made to very strict tolerances to start with. Additionally, the inside/outside hooks in the end are subject to wear, over time. And abuse can deform them as well.
2. The precision of a tape measure is rarely greater than 1/16”. In many cuts, I want it to be 1/32” or closer. Tapes just don’t have that precision.
3. I have a 24” steel machinist rule that I keep handy for nearly every fence setting. It has 1/32” on one side and 1/64” on the other. In addition, it has precise zero at each end.
4. Pressing the fence against the face of the guide will keep it parallel to the blade. Failure to do so will cause the fence to swing left or right when you lock it in place. It is automatically built into how I make adjustments. I don’t even think about it… but, was reminded of it when teaching my grandson how to use the fence last month.
5. I make more cuts with an auxiliary wooden fence than I do with the bare aluminum fence. Having to change a scale every time I add or remove the sacrificial fence is just a step that I don’t want to fiddle with.
And finally, parallax error is real! With my steel rule butted against the fence and touching the inside point of the tooth on the blade, every reading is precisely accurate. There is no gap to sight across. That inside contact point is so visibly correct I can split a line or fudge it with confidence.
All in all, those years of repetitive use of the same steel rule and following the same order of steps have given me a simple system that always works.
I think I’ll continue passing on having a scale affixed beneath the fence.
So many great tips there, Dave.
I have it, use it and love it. Every upgrade from Shopsmith includes it already installed as well as every new machine. The front rail comes with the magnetic strip already attached. Not just the main table but also the floating and extension tables. Has the short one 16" for the main table alone or a 45" one for use with the floating and extension tables.
The Shopsmith always reminded me of the Unimat SL 1000… a miniature multi tool metal lathe that’s just as beautiful as the shopsmith and also a wonder of engineering.
Yes, the UniMat SL1000 is very similar to the original Shopsmith Model 10ER. I used to own a more modern, cast iron UniMat and I loved it.
@@MyGrowthRingsI have a die cast unimat complete with all attachments I’ve acquired over the years and it’s a joy to work with.. hopefully I can find a deal on a Shopsmith soon and join the club.
@@MyGrowthRingsbtw I just googled the 10ER.. that machine is a work of art!
Agreed! @@kubanpanzer
Yes, they still make the scale upgrade kit. Its 200USD. UA-cam won't let me post the full link but it ends with ...rip-scale-complete-kit-mark-7-mark-v-520-mark-4/ I found it by searching tor 'direct scale' on their web site. Looks like the kit includes new rails.
Thanks for that. Yes, links send your comment to comment jail, for sure.
Love the bloopers! You are human.
The scales came with my 500 to 520 upgrade. Which I mostly got for safety reasons.
It came with two scales. I keep the shorter one on all the time.
Sooooo human!
I have this on my Shopsmith and use it when I am doing a lot of table saw cutting of different sizes. It works well for me.
My mark 7 of 2013 also has the magnetic ruler feature. It is usually used with each saw operation here. Although I work mainly in metric the magnetic ruler is still a benefit. I am reminded by your discussion that I would be better off with a combination metric and inch scale. When more precision is needed I will use appropriate measuring tools. Thanks for your discussion on this important 520 feature.
Art
Thanks for chiming in, Art. Scott
The magnetic rip scale on the newest version of the Pro Fence System (aka 520 fence) was the furthest thing from my mind when I ordered my Mark 7. But, having owned it and used it for 18 months, the rip scale is one of my favorite features. I use it often. The variability in the table, blade, etc. set up from operation to operation is irrelevant to me. It takes 5-10 seconds to reset the rip scale. You zero it to the blade using the fence just like you showed for the Saw Smith. Added bonus you can on-the-fly zero it out to full kerf or even a dado stack without having to add in any offset.
The stainless steel ruler (magnetic) are awesome, very clear and high quality. My only complaint is that Shopsmith does not sell a metric version. I have a off-brand metric rip scale but not the same quality. Its a plastic-coated steel self-adhesive deal that I scraped the adhesive off and its just not as accurate.
I'm making a footstool right now, and there are several widths called for, for legs, bottom rails, top rails, stretchers etc. For efficiency, I batch ripped everything in one setup. It was so nice to accurately go from 1-7/8 to 1-5/8 to 2-1/8 to 3-1/4.
Nice. I have determined that I need to give it a fair chance.
Thanks for the video, Scott. I got the magnetic tape and measure with my 520 upgrade kit back when I ordered it. Used it all the time--it was easy enough to re-zero and yet the magnet was strong enough to keep it from accidental shifting. I did always double-check with a rule out of habit. I mostly do table saw work now on a standalone with an Incra LS system, which I never double-check anymore and which has the ability to move the main or secondary scales to re-zero, similar to the ease of the re-zeroing the Shopsmith one. I'm a big fan of the Shopsmith magentic rule on the 520, though!
Thanks for sharing and I’m glad it works for you.
For both my '56 and my '81, I align/measure as you suggested...get in the ball park with the fence then move the quill/blade the last few "thousandths" for "perfection."
EXACTLY! I love that feature.
I have the rule-it came with the table upgrade. I agree with you on the variability if you move anything. I use it for relative measures. For example, If I need to move the fence 1/32 either way after a test cut, I look to the scale to make the move.
I have the upgraded front rails but the scale is still in the box. I'm used to how I did my set-ups from nearly 3 decades of using the 510 fence system.
I will admit, I never thought of moving the quill to adjust the last bit of the rip dimension, DOH!
Got that thing mounted! So many people have commented on how handy it is, and it’s a shame that it is still in the box.
I use the magnet on my 520 all the time. I didn't trust it at first but soon learned to.
Thanks for the informative video. We, my wife and I, use Eanosic, aluminum blocks for measuring.
A few years back I found some discontinued 3 ft long metal rules at one of the big box stores that were on sale for $3 each. When I got it home, I discovered that it would just barely fit under the 520 fence. To use it, I slide the rule it under the fence from the backside of the fence and touch the rule against the the tip of a blade tooth nearest the fence and just above the table (rotate the blade manually if needed). Then I look down over the fence and read the rule. Voila, a $3 self-zeroing, direct reading rip scale. If I'm being really persnickety, I'll slap a square on the back side of the fence and against the rule to make sure the reading is plumb to the blade and fence.
Nice solution.
That is a great idea! 👍 😊
I’ve got it (it came with my 520 table upgrade), and I use it all the time. It’s become second nature to me to pop the upper saw guard off, reset the scale, then use that instead of a measuring tape. I’ve found that it works well. I do put the upper guard back on before I turn on the saw.
Thanks for chiming in, Stew. You seem to be in the majority.
I have the upgrade 510 to 520. The ruler came with the upgrade. I can’t break the habit of checking my measurements with another tape even though the Shopsmith tape is right there.
It sounds like the old Ronald Reagan rule of trust, but verify.
This is on the list for my Sawsmith 2000. Glad I have your review for the Fastcap tape, didn't know what would work well.
The rails for my first saw came set up with the scale on a 4ft. rail but I've long since used different table/rail configurations. If I had a 520 I might be interested in the magnetic strip but my blade position won't normally change. I'll have to see how much adjustment the Excalibur fence allows for the indicator to see if that can be used to adjust for blade width differences.
Yes, I really like that tape.
I am intrigued by the fence tape system. As my 520 is new to me, I’m going to have to check to see if I have the wider extrusion…
I see the wider extrusion comes with the kit. Since the pictures don’t appear on the new website yet, I can’t tell if they somehow fit on the old extrusion, or replace it.
Rip Scale (38 inch)
PART #522269
HOME / MARK / RIP SCALE (38 INCH) $49.30
Thanks Scott! 🎉
I use the 520 scale as often as I can.
There were? are? two versions of the extrusions. I have the one with the wide top.
With a 1,2,3 block the fence/ tape can be set, “dead nuts” on.
The only negative? is removal of the fence can adjust the stainless tape.
I don’t use the quill to make the necessary adjustments. With the quill fully retracted the fence is spot on. A different blade requires the 1,2,3 block and, sliding the scale - easily done. I’ve found a cleaned, waxed blade finish blade makes ripping and cross-cuts equally well, provided the ripping, if deep a cut is necessary be done with more than one pass.
The Shopsmith rip scale is very good.
I used to use 123 blocks all the time, and then got away from the habit when I realized how rarely, I measuring even inch increments!
@@MyGrowthRings
But - Setting the fence and the rip scale -
Set the fence (mine has the black plastic pointer) and the rip scale to exactly one inch - then the fence is exact no matter the width. Shopsmith sells (or did) a longer scale - it’ll go across the table and a floating table. I sure, no I’m positive, (cuz being right feels right) that the 1,2,3 block to set the fence then the scale is the absolute best way!😵💫 slide the block tightly along the fence so it just kisses the blade. It’s hellaciously accurate. Were the scale never disturbed when removing the fence (it’s happened) it’s be a one time deal.
@@johnrice6793 Makes sense.
@@MyGrowthRings I have a set of iGaging gauge blocks that include the 123 block, plus blocks from 1/16" to 3/4". Set also includes the plywood sized blocks for the undersized 1/4" (7/32"), 1/2" (15/32") and 3/4" (23/32") plywoods. One of my most used tools.
Scott, I have the rip scale on my Mark V 520. As others have said, it came with the upgrade kit, so I didn't need to add it on. I find it it to be a quick and useful reference when ripping several widths and it is fast and accurate. It is hard to break the habit of reaching for my tape measure or combination square, but I do like using the rip scale.
Thanks for weighing in. It sounds like your experience matches the majority of the folks who have the scale. Scott
Thanks for demonstrating these add-on scales. I always wondered how they worked but didn't want to spend the money to find out.
I have a 520 and find the quill drifts as the saw runs when I use it for micro-adjusting, so I always lock it down. I micro adjust with the main fence and make test cuts until perfect. An accurate scale would make this easier.
EDIT: regarding your guidance to remember to lock it down, I find that no matter how tight I screw it down, if the quill isn't locked all the way over, then it drifts when the blade engages with the workpiece. Must be an issue with my 520 but I have not figured out the fix yet, except not using the quill to adjust blade distance.
You certainly have to remember to lock it after you make any adjustment. That’s pretty much true with all of the adjustment on the machine, but if you start messing with them, that is one more thing that you need to double check.
I agree. To many moving parts to be dead on repeatable. I got some tape for the band saw and it works fine. Still have a tape measure or square in my pocket just to be sure
I agree w/you Scott. I have the 520 with the magnetic measuring tape and dont use it. I tried it several times and found it to be cumbersome. I just measure and cut without difficulty. I too like the incra gauge for this purpose. thanks for another helpful video.
Thanks, Robert. One of these days I’ll force myself to use the scale on a project from beginning to end, and that might change my opinion/habits. We will see. Scott.
I have the scale system on my 520 I have never used the long rule but keep the short rule on my machine at all times. I rarely use it, only if I want fast precision and I know I am not moving the blade quill or table. I was trained to measure off the blade and do that 99% of the time but there are times when everything is staying about the same and only the fence will be moved that I use it. It is a shade quicker than measuring off the blade, but for real precision work always always measure off the blade.
I agree. And even after measuring from the fence to the blade, I always check my actual cut to confirm my measurements. Old habits that have served me well, I guess.
I have it and love it! Its an ingenious use of magnetic ruler!
I use a tape measure, and for anything < 6" I use my stanley combination square rule. Sometimes I set it to the dimension I need including the 1/8 blade, sometimes, if a rip or plywood, I will not include the blade width. While I like the idea of the tape, I learned that trick with teh quill, and so the tape always seemed like it would be off. I also rarely am making a 'run' of things that need to be the same, and I make measureing mistakes often enough as I go from plans to head to tape on machine, I figured one more could be a problem.... exciting to see others use and and are happy with it..... maybe
There is nothing wrong with your approach, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a better one out there. Keep with it and share your success. Scott
Thankyou, Scott.
I have been wanting to get this upgrade for my 520. But seeing you use the Incra gauge (which I have) makes me want to try that first.
It’s a hefty priced upgrade as you need to get the newer rails.
I will continue to reach for my IncaGauge, too.
I also made the add on to the Shopsmith crosscut sled as modified by Nick Engler and use the metal rule there.
Does that rule slide to adjust?
I believe it does slide because he probably used the 520 upgrade kit to add the metal rule. One of the old Sawdust sessions shows it, but I'm having trouble finding the old Sawdust sessions on the new website... @@MyGrowthRings
Great insights Scott. Not sure if my rail will accommodate, but much like you, i prefer the incra gauge to get it right on the mark.
I got the magnetic scale with my 720 upgrade and I use it routinely. I always make sure that the blade is all the way to the left before setting the fence to the scale. That way I don’t have to reset the scale every time I use it. I have never tried using the scale with the extension tables. That seems like it would be inaccurate with a gap between tables.
I have a Mark 7 that is 2 years old. I have the magnet and scale. I have to adjust the scale each time I change accessories and return to the saw. I don't see this as a problem. I will say that I have been caught of guard and ruined pieces because i didn't double check the alignment. Adjusting the quill might be an easy fix for this alignment. Thanks for the tip!
I can totally see that happening to me!
Thanks Scott
Thanks for sharing Scott. Hope you and yours had a Merry Christmas!
We sure did! We are currently at a Bob Ross exhibit with our son and his family. Makes me want to make some frames!
My Mark 5, is tube only. I like it just fine as is. I use the same tape measure each time. Thanks
That’s wise. Do you store it on the Shopsmith?
Hi Scott, I ALWAYS use the magnetic tape with my 520 table saw. Personally, I love the fact that I can “adjust” to match whatever blade is mounted on the arbor. Recently, I was rebuilding a kitchen drawer and needing to make dado cuts for the side and drawer bottom. After making the initial cut(width of blade), I then “zero’s” the rip scale to where the fence and then…adjusted the fence to create the proper dado. Personally, I think SS totally nailed the system by using a magnetic strip and steel tape.
Glad you’ve found it helpful.
I bought my SS 510 in the early 90's and upgraded to the 520 fence system which included a scale. After considering it I never installed the scale. I truly believe the quill & ability to move the blade so very slightly is better than the scale & my 6" scale from my pocket does it for me.
I used to always have a 6” scale in my pocket too. Why did I stop?
@@MyGrowthRingsI worked as an inspector in a factory in the mid-70's & we all needed to carry our own 6" rule. I had that same rule up until just a few years ago. After I lost it I bought a new one. It lives in my shop apron pocket.
I hope that you had a great Christmas. Thank you for sharing this information on the fence measuring scale. I have a pair of cheap 1 2 3 blocks that I've found to be very helpful for quick setup. I have different thicknesses of hardwood slats for setting up fractions.
Thanks, Mark. Our Christmas was wonderful. How about yours?
@MyGrowthRings Thanks, Scott. We had a nice Christmas, but it was also challenging due to my mother in law's passing last summer.
@@MrMarkpeggy We understand how that goes. Everything feels different when someone who has always been there, isn't.
Thanks Scott!! Very useful information as always. Keep up the great work. 👽
It's a convenience but one of my favorite features of the 520 fence system. I was told the first generation didn't have the ruler and therefore the upgrade kit. The new generations had it included. Many ways to measure from blade to fence but the magnetic ruler is the easiest, most accurate, and repeatable for me.
Glad you find it helpful. Yes, my 520 is older and predates the newer from t rail extrusion.
Thank you for all the info I bought an 1989 mark v a month ago was looking for attachments and found an 1954 mark v cheap very good condition and came with scroll saw and edger
Was it a scroll saw or a jig saw? They were both made under the Shopsmith brand, and they are totally different animals
Not sure came with scroll saw blades but I see jig saw blade in bottom looks like a swan long neck
@@lorriebuxton2041 Yep, that’s the jigsaw. I’ve done a couple videos on that. Make sure before you run it that you add oil to the oil bath.
@@MyGrowthRings ok thanks says magna engineering
@@lorriebuxton2041 Yep, that’s likely the model 710 jigsaw. Visit VintageMachinery(dot)com or maybe it’s dot org and search for Magna Engineering and you’ll find some cool documentation there.
I have it and enjoy using it.
I had desired the scale system since it came out but having the old 520 front rails I never felt the desire to spend the money on the upgrade. At the owner meetup this past fall I purchased some of the 520 front extrusion seconds at a very reasonable cost and then purchased the scales. I am glad I did. I do have the incra gauge that you have but I find the scales more usable and use the incra gauge as a marking tool. Enjoyed the video Scott!
Glad it works for you. Did you get the indicator for the fence?
Missed getting it at the factory as I didn't know it was needed/desirable, but did order it after and find that it or a homemade one improves accuracy.
Good information, Scott. Thanks.
Thanks, Brad.
I am wanting to get this upgrade. When I do multiple ripping of various width it would be nice to use it instead of breaking out the tape measure every time. It only takes a few seconds to set up on a machine that is multifunctional so I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I am going to get it as my next upgrade.
Go for it! Most of the people who have it and have commented really like it.
I use the magnetic tape for rip cuts all the time. First, I have to adjust the blade to zero and then lock the quill, but then I can adjust for various widths of cut from the same zero. Occasionally I'll check with a rule, but I'm satisfied with it.
Glad to hear it, Henry.
The rule is awesome on a fence like the Excalibur but I don’t see the value on my 520 fence/rails. I have the Incra gauge and I will use it like you do now. I feel like an idiot for not doing that sooner so thanks for the tip. I wish they made it in metric too as I am going that way and starting to finally think metric. Great video
As along time SS user I've always been curious as to the advantage of a scale for the rip fence. As you said, too many variables in set up, especially because of changing from one mode to another. I simply use a good tape measure from the fence to the blade and let 'er rip! Thanks for another informative video. Here's a bonus for you. My son, a contractor, found a vintage jigsaw in the attic of a garage on property he bought. It's really small and uses 4" blades with a pinned top and flat bottom. He's bringing it to me so I can play with it. It's from Burgess Vibrocrafters Inc. I'm pretty sure you will now head to your computer and check it out. I'll email you some pictures when I get my hands on it. Blessings, Glen
I do know that saw. It’ll be fun to play with and little kids will like it because it is a safe first saw.
I upgraded to the 520 fence system and it came with the steel rules. I have used it but kept losing the alignment. I suspect user error since I was in a hurry. I plan to try it again once sawdust season starts again here in the great white north.
I have also been investigating the Incra fence system since much of my work is with the SS in table saw mode. Switch over time is the main concern.
I have the wider rail on my 520. Have the ruler in storage. Just do not see the need for it. Enjoyed the video.
It might be handy, but it’s yet another habit to learn.
Great video!
Thanks for demonstrating the use of the incra device.
I thought today's video would show all the goodies you got for Christmas(if you have been nice rather than naughty!)
I have the magnetic steel rule installed and use it mainly to get "close" to my desired setting. Most of my projects have parts that need to be equal in width or length so accuracy is less important than having precision(all parts equal in width or length). Remember that wood expands/contracts so the measurement you get in the summer will likely be different than the measurement you get now... Happy New Years but now drinking and Shopsmith-ing! jim
Jim, the temptation to do that very style of video is strong! My son gave me a very cool flashlight, but that just doesn’t fit the channel.
that should be NO drinking....
It came with my 520-upgrade last year. It is very handy if you are going to make several cuts before changing your setup. the newer rails have a nice flat spot on them to accommodate the rule and the rip fence has a precise marker built in. Not worth the time if you are just making one or to cuts because to line it up you have to remove the blade guard line the fence with the blade, adjust the rule then reinstall the blade guard. you need to do this anytime you move the quill feed.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d probably use it if I had it. Glad to know that it works for you.
I agree. It can be useful for projects where you have multiple cuts to make before changing out the setup. I've used mine a couple times since upgrading to the 520 tables a few years ago.
I have the ruler system on my 520. I like it but can’t break myself of the habit of checking with my tape measure or steel rule. Also, one annoying thing is that the rule is slightly wider than the shelf that it rests on so I occasionally brush it and lift it off the magnet. I agree with your assessment that I wouldn’t pay for it. I inherited mine with my used 520.
That’s weird that it lifts off. That would drive me nuts!
I have a Mark 7 about a year old. It came with the steel rip scale and magnet. I have a tendency to measure directly from the fence than use the scale.
There’s just something about the confidence you get from measuring to the blade.
I’ll add - cleaning the magnetic strip and the scale (I use acetone) allows the tape to stay in its place much longer.
I just want to thank you for all the videos. I just inherited my great grandfather's and I'm trying to restore it thanks for all the information on the videos. Wish I could find More parts. Do you know where I can find them?
You will find a lot of parts on eBay. The trick is to learn all the church terms to zero in on the parts that you need. Make sure to search, including the model number of your machine. For example, “Mark V model 500”
For what I do, I don't think I'd have a consistent need for a permanently mounted rule. Plus, if you had a sacrificial fence on there, it would throw off the readings.
True, but in theory you would simple reposition the scale to accommodate the addition to the fence.
I recently upgraded my 510 to the 520 rail system. Mine did not come with the ruler. Think I'd rather invest in the Incra ruler than the Shopsmith magnet ruler.
I have one and I have used it. Seems to work well, but sometimes I won't take time to install because it seems to be a hassle to deal with. Always afraid I will bend it or lose it.
It really does seem like it could bend easily. I suppose it could always be replaced.
I bought the add-on scale for the 520 and I did not find it useful. It was hard to read and had to be re-set every time I moved the blade. Depending on the situation, I will typically use the Incra Gauge (which I bought after watching your previous video), 1-2-3 blocks, or brass set up blocks. I also have an easy-to-read Stanley Fat Max metal rule that I use for longer distances.
I’m noticing that most everything I look at is further away than it used to be!
I just use a ruler against the fence. Seems close enough to me.
I agree.
I seldom use the quill to change the position of the blade. I move the carriage to the rubber spacer and lock it in. The scale sticks to my 520 table without adding anything else. So were the earlier 520 models not made for the magnetic scale? I use mine all the time. It is especially handy when I'm using "Jack the Ripper" for different sized small strips for serving trays, cutting boards, small table tops, games etc.
That’s correct, Daniel. My fence predates the scale and the newer rail extrusion. I bet that does help when using Jack!
I enjoy your videos but I have a 500 and much of what you show doesn’t apply to me. Do you happen to know if an upgrade fence is available for the 500?
Sorry about that. I do own a 500 and three Total Shop clones of the 500, but since I also some 510’s and a 520, they just don’t see much action. Yes, Shopsmith does sell an upgraded 500 fence, which I do like. Check it out here: shopsmith.com/product/rip-fence-upgrade-for-mark-v-500/
Mark 7, use it , like it & double check with another ruler …
i would use one but i have a 510 so im out of luck
Here is hopefully a helpful solution how do i send you a video
You can email me at scottmarkwood(at)gmail(dot)com
Thanks Scott