Can Bosch, Mafell, Craftsman & even Shopsmith all be WRONG? SawSmith 2000
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2024
- ✅ SHOP NOTES: I've been sitting on the topic for a while, as I get all my ducks in a row, and while this isn't the only video you'll see from me on the subject of Push-Pull or Sliding Blade Table Saws, it is my first.
Read more about the Shopsmith Sawsmith 2000 on my blog: shopsmith-tool...
Download a free copy of the Sawsmith 2000 manual here: vintagemachiner...
✅ Visit www.MyGrowthRin... and join the conversation by becoming a FREE Channel Member! Details under "Explore Channel Membership".
#Shopsmith #PushPullTableSaw #SawSmith2000
I saw this when you first put it out, never heard of one before, a month ago , one came up on market place just 10 miles from me, went and bought it , got it home cleaned and lubed it , been enjoying it since, 150 bucks , Thanks for your videos.
Wow, great buy!
Thanks again for the education. Fellow tool nerd here. (220v 12” worm drive “Thor” saw ring any bells?)
I love the intent and the simplicity of my Greenie Shopsmith. Worked as a aerospace ceramics machinist and I am quite happy with the accuracy and performance of this old system. Accessories, guides and the newest bling blang don’t add up to use and knowing your tool. SS was never intended to be a cabinet shop tool but as others have stated, it has built more than a few houses. That’s good nuff for me.
The tool is “fun” to use. That means something to me.
@@constantgardener4517 Oh yes, the Thor saw is roughly the same vintage as the Shopsmith 10er. Man, there sure was a lot of innovation in tools after WWII.
I found somebody selling Excalibur fences about the time I became sufficiently unhappy with the fence on the saw I inherited from my dad around 20 years ago. That fence has stayed on that saw and the saw is still in my shop because of that fence. If you have a chance to get one, grab it.
Scott, My grandfather built several homes back in the 1950s and 60s using the Craftsman Builders Saw. He had it in his shop until his passing in1989, but he used it for a work bench since he had a big band saw and a classic DeWalt radial arm saw. I always wondered what that "strange" saw was, but it was sold with his estate. Thank you for solving that mystery for me. On a related note, I have two shop smiths. One was a 1985 model that has a lot of attachments, and the other is a 520 Powerpro I bought new in 2016. I have learned a lot watching your videos.
Happy to provide answers to that mystery. Which verson of the saw was it? They both shared the same name. Thanks for joining the conversation.
When will the Scott (M)useum be open to the public? You inspire me and crack me up all at once!
Yepper - It’s a hoot!
Thanks Bob. I fear it will be a memorial museum!
@@MyGrowthRings In other words your bride suggested you not bring anything else home? I got that intervention on darkroom equipment.
@@mikeking7470 She’s fine with my tool hoarding, as long as she doesn’t have to trip over anything.
About 8 years ago a good friend of mine had a sawsmith 2000 table saw and a sawsmith radial arm saw he wanted to give me. They needed some restoration, but we’re in okay shape. This was way before I was into shopsmith or radial arm saws. I did not take them, but looking back I wish I would have gotten that radial arm saw. I never knew there are table saws where you can pull the blade.
That nasty hindsight strikes again.
I had an Excalibur fence on my Delta contractor saw I sold about a year ago. It was the large one and took up to much space. I do miss that fence, nicest fence I’ve ever used. You could glide it right up to the measurement you needed and lock it right down. None of this bumping it back and forth.
It really is a pleasure to use.
Side note; pushing towards blade inspires thought and caution. Pulling instant finger shredder not so much. RAS are same BUT that blade is staring you in the face! Not so much with that little sneaky under the table blade. Just a thought.
Thanks for a very clear coverage of the Sawsmith 2000. I was a little interested in getting one until I saw your video. Now, if I were to replace the table saw function of my SS, I would steer clear. That said, I have no intention of not sticking with the SS table saw. I have been very comfortable with it for almost 50 years now. The height doesn't bother me at all, and I have even made compound miter cuts to creat a sloped six-sided hanging planter. At the time I didn't know it wasn't possible on the SS. : ). Blessings, Glen
I'm right there with you, Glen.
I had a saw-smith 2000 and I gave away and got a Delta. The saw-smith didn’t lock the blade height. When using a dado blade it would drop down so the cut was deeper on one end and shallower on the other. Other than that it was a great saw
The long post I entered yesterday somehow disappeared into the ether. Trying to remember the long rambling path I took...
For crosscutting the carriage will just cut through a standard 2x12, 11-1/4" wide X 1-1/2" wide. The blade height must be set correctly along with a stop at just the right distance or it will leave a toothpick attaching the two pieces.
The lateral blade movement at the blade height extremes is a problematic. On that long list of things I need to get to is a tear down of one of my Sawsmiths to investigate what happens there.
Even though you have the Excalibur fence and rails I think you should fill in that open space between tables. Just the weight of the fence and the clamping action can distort the rails over time. Shopsmith made, or at least planned to make a floating router table section for the Sawsmith 2000. I have a box with a label for one of those tables, but the guy I bought it from told me it came with a standard floating table in the box.
The sawguards combine for fairly effective dust collection. You need a few extra feet of hose attached to the lower guard to account for it's movement as part of the sliding carriage.
As much as I like having the sliding carriage crosscut feature I could live without it. The depth of the table, and the width with the longer rails make the difference for me (I have 2 machines joined side by side so now over 7 feet wide altogether). I definitely prefer the Shopsmith 510+ grooved table. I never really minded the height of Shopsmith Mark 5 tablesaw mode, I think it's easier to deal with closer to eye level. My Sawsmiths are mounted on a dolly which puts them right about the same height as my 510 in tablesaw mode, which is located right behind them to serve as an extended outfeed table.
Any drawbacks to the Sawsmith 2000 are easily forgotten the first time you make a bevel cut by tilting the blade instead of the table!
Not sure what happened to it, Ed. I checked and it’s not in the spam folder.
@@MyGrowthRings No worries. Surely a problem on my end. It gave me a chance to talk about my favorite tablesaw twice.
I picked up one with the Excalibur fence a couple of years ago. It was so out of tune and alignment I'd be supprised it hadent hurt someone at some point. Like all the other second hand Shopsmith tools I've aquired and fixed up, this one was no different. After a long weekend of breakdown, cleaning and careful reassembling, it performs as good or better than any other hobby table saw I've had in the past. And all my Shopsmith accessories already work with it. I'm a hobby woodworker with no deadlines. No complaints from me.
Whenever I see something like this, I tend to process the tool-production history in terms of how the Industrial Revolution must have developed. Lots of people working together and in competition: engineering the best product to serve the craftsman or consumer. All of society wins. A lot of us watching your videos win with all the work and effort you do. We all get smarter and more efficient.
Love your videos. I do not own a Shopsmith. Maybe someday. Meanwhile you have a new subscriber.
You are absolutely right and I really appreciate you chiming in. Thanks for subscribing! Scott.
It is my pleasure to be part of this conversation. @@MyGrowthRings
I almost bought one of those. Ended up buying a Powermatic 66. Sounds like it was a good choice.
I swapped mine for a 66 as well.
Yeah but could you carry the Powermatic into the basement by yourself?
Great information! A few years ago one came up on Craigslist. Based upon the information you provided I am so glad I didn't buy it! Thanks for your unvarnished review of this tool!
Another great video. I have had a lot of curiosity about this saw, and you answered some very important questions. Thanks so much!
My pleasure.
Very interesting.
I’m glad (now) I didn’t buy one when I had the opportunity.
As well, the Shopsmith 520 with infeed and outfeed tables is really quite good.
Thanks again for your videos.👍👍
Glad you dodged the bullet!
Outrageous price and blade lateral movement were the two things that made me walk away. The pull rod had tons of slop that moved the blade as you demonstrated. I do not remember the price but I do remember it priced out at about the same price is Delta Unisaw at the time, and about double the price of contractor saws.
You are correct about the price. It was priced to match the Unisaw, which was foolish based on the build quality.
Several years ago, I found a listing for one on craigslist for $200 in my area. If I recall, it might have been missing the fence. Anyway, I arranged to pick it up (mostly for the purpose of collecting oddball Shopsmith tools). When I got to the address, no one was home and I was never again able to contact the person(s) who had posted the listing. Might have been a scam but there certainly would be better items to use as bait. At least I didn't lose the $200, but I'm still a little disappointed that I didn't get it.
P.S.: The older Craftsman saws you have are really cool!
That's so weird. Yes, the Craftsman saws are cool.
I remember seeing these in the catalog. While it seemed like a good idea, I didn't have the space for another tool in my workshop. I think the blade movement and the flexing would have been deal killers for me.
Yep. I remember people coming into the Dayton showroom specifically to investigate the saw and most walked away after feeling the flex.
That fence is really nice. Motor in that thing sounds like the top end motors of any pro cabinet saw I've ever heard too. Pulling or pushing the tool into the wood is definitely a good general way to think about tools. I like some of he sliding table saws and table saw add-ons we see lately. Being able to secure wood and pull the tool into allows, I believe for the makings of a generally safer system. I think I'd pursue a radial arm saw before venturing into something like this.
Great video. Love it when you share pros and cons. Even though I’m short I’ll stick with the shopsmith. 😊
You are in good company.
I guess I’m a junkie, without the space. I hope I come across one when I have the space. Thanks Scott, great video!
Clearly, I relate.
Thank you for selling me on passing on this saw. I was on my way to get one. I do really need a dedicated table saw. Maybe you can do a video on recommendations? Thanks
I love tech videos so this was great. I had no idea that they had such a table saw.
Thanks. Yeah, it’s a strange idea that just wouldn’t go away.
@@MyGrowthRings I'm going to send this to my friend Dianne and Australia. She's a wonderful friend and the woman I should of married if I only had a time machine. She loves tools which is just one of a million reasons why I feel that way.
Well, I bought one new and still use it today. It is my main table saw. I love the Excalibur fence and I have the long version. While I don't use the radial feature for cross cuts, I do love the ability to move the blade. When ripping LONG boards, I move the blade to the back and have the longer rip face for the beginning of the cut. Then when cutting small pieces, move the blade to the front so don't have to reach and feel I have better control of the smaller board. And on more normal lengths have the blade in the middle. For crosscuts have the left and right Dubby Miter saw sleds (from In-Line Industries) for 90s and ANY angle. They are EXTREMLY accurate.
I'm glad you find it useful.
Always wanted to get one of the Sawsmiths.
Thanks for the review. I love my Sawsmith Radial Arm Saw.
Me too.
Thanks Scott, great information and video as always!!!
Thanks, Marc.
I've got one that seems to work well. No slop on the push/pull rod. I also found an Excalibur for it but it has the 78" rails so I'll for sure need to build a table extension.
Unfortunately... it's missing the brake activator and lining. So it freewheels about 20s after turning off.
The brake they used was a commercially available part, so you should be able to find one add an industrial bearing supply house, if that bothers you.
According to the manual the brake will take 10-15 seconds to stop the blade when the motor is turned off. If it takes longer than that the friction material can be reversed to restore it. That material is the only unique part for the Sawsmith 2000 Shopsmith still sells.
This brings up a unique safety issue with the sliding crosscut feature. You can cut partially or all the way across a board with the blade still spinning between the cut pieces. You can lock the carriage at that point, but you have to wait for the blade to stop spinning before you touch the wood because any movement can bring it into contact with the blade creating a kickback situation.
Another great video Scott! Interesting discussion of the concerns people have regarding the table saw. I had a bit of table saw experience before buying my Shopsmith 20 years ago. I didn't use the table saw mode much over the 20 years until the past few years and the height always made me feel uncomfortable. Earlier this year I jumped on the SawStop band wagon and immediately noticed a dramatic difference in my personal comfort (a.k.a. less fear and intimidation). I plan to keep the Shopsmith for all its other features and functionality plus maybe dados. Perhaps if I had never worked with a "normal" table saw, the Shopsmith would not have intimidated me as much?
That may be, but either way, it's good that you've made peace with the table saw. Scott
Well I guess that I qualify as a "Shopsmith Junkie". I have one and really like it. I fully understand it's shortcomings and have found them not to be insurmountable. Must be a character flaw but I do enjoy having unique and unusual things. 😊
We have a lot in common.
with the line of linear bearings out now I cant imagine someone like izzy swan has not built their own version yet
So true
The thing I'm most shocked about is that you are smoking a briar pipe ;-) Thanks for another great history lesson!
I bought another one just tonight. I do love my cobs, though.
Thanks for another informative video.
My pleasure!
Very interesting video. Thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Another interesting video. Seeing the Sawsmith 2000 in action was more informative than having read about it in the past. Thanks for pointing out the cons...you showed there is a lot of play in the blade...At least there is no confusion about which direction you move the blade like there is in a radial arm saw- do I push it or pull it through the board? I got rid of my craftsman radial arm saw soon after I got my first Shopsmith 505 (which I promptly upgraded to a 520).
That's very true. It is a fun saw to use, I just wish it were better built.
Thankyou for telling me not to get it. I inly half heard you say it while checking marketplace. I did find something though. A sawsmith radial arm saw just north of Ft. Wayne? I'm going to check your backlogs but this is new to me. I hope its terrible because thats a little bit of a drive. 😊
@@WoodworkingforAnyone I own three of the SawSmith RAS’s, but haven’t made a video yet.
@@WoodworkingforAnyone I wrote a little bout it on my blog: shopsmith-tool-hunter.blogspot.com/2007/05/sawsmith-radial-arm-saw.html?m=1
@@MyGrowthRings that was the worst possible thing I could have read. I told you I didn't want to make the drive. I guess I can stop by the Auburn, Cord, Duesenburg museum and make a day of it.
There is a beauty in Asheville too if you need another :)
@@WoodworkingforAnyone Need? This isn’t something any of us “need”!
Does your spouse know about this problem you have with vintage saw acquisitions? Is your dinning room table actually a table saw with a tarp over it, is your idea of a side board a Shop Smith shorty, you could have a problem, LOL. Very interesting history lesson, thanks for sharing.
SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
I suspect you put some really nice accessories in the kitchen, living and dining rooms when you built your new house and new garage......@@MyGrowthRings
I just let my six year old son watch the video of the Mafell saw his response was it’s safer because you’re hands are not going towards the blade. 😂 smh $4300 Price is a bit high . Great video on the SS2000. I know they have some weak parts that break. Can you tell us what to look for if we find one in the wild.
Ideally you'll find one that has seen little use. Wear, or worse, abuse are both killers because there's no source for spare parts.
Those two spinning lock rings tighten around plastic threads. So those commonly break.
What I paid for it wouldn't even cover the sales tax on that Mafell though. 😁
@@arondaniel Thankfully they are available as 3D printed aftermarket parts.
Could there be ways to install nylon or HDPE guides to eliminate the slop or is the engineering such that tuning this type saw isn’t worth the effort?
It all boils down to how much are you willing to spend. Yes, this style of saw can be built rock solid, but all that costs money. Shopsmith was trying to target a market that wanted a Unisaw, but loved their Shopsmith tools. If it had been half the price it would have been fine.
Yes, very cool. But more room for lesser tolerances, and miter saws do the job crosscutting long pieces better.
Exactly.
I was a very inexperienced woodworker when that saw came out. I couldn't afford it, and now I am glad that I didn't buy it. 😊
I recently purchased one with an incra fence for $100. It works well for me. It does take long for the blade to stop even after installing a new disc. Is there anywhere to get the miter guage stop?
You can make one with a standard Shopsmith t-nut, a fender washer and a knob.
The stop can be adjusted beyond adding the fresh disc, though 10-15 seconds is a long time when you are waiting for it to stop! The miter stop is a Shopsmith t-nut with a fender washer and a knob, all of which should be an easy DIY project.
How many saws does Scott have, ha ha. Also, was this thing setup for dado and molding, and do you know why they didn't use that particular fence system on other shopsmith products?
Yes, there is a dado and a molder insert (two different inserts) and that fence and the rails are so heavy that it just isn't practical for use on a "Mark".
It's just way too much fence. It just wouldn't be adaptable to other Shopsmith tools.
Jim McCann talked about it being withdrawn because of injuries from use. People pulling the blade across their fingers?
I believe that was the Sawsmith radial arm saw, not the Sawsmith 2000
@@MyGrowthRings I was sure he was talking about the 2000. There were a number of them at Dayton College.
@@alberttreado3713 I may be mistaken.
Interesting saw! It's a shame it fell short in those ways. It might have been a hit otherwise. BTW did you happen to hear back from Jim McCann re those carriage castings? Thanks!
I just rewrote Jim and he replied “No change was made to the casting in order to split the carriage We simply saw the casting on a metal cutting Bandsaw
Yes. I guess a "handy" customer could cut their own carriage with a hacksaw. That's how I prototyped and proved this change many, many moons ago.” So there ya go. Scott
Thank you! And thanks, Jim! That's exactly what I wanted to hear (and exactly what I had planned to do once given Jim's go-ahead)
I'm curious(nibby) about "cutting the carriage"? What are you trying to accomplish? jim@@rcedward1
@@jamespowell7196 Better locking of the toolrest post. Scott discusses it in his previous video here ua-cam.com/video/rGnur6VzljA/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=177
Current SS carriages come with this cut from the factory
@@jamespowell7196 It was discussed in the “Three Shorts” video from a week or so back.