Discussing and Reviewing Persona 5 Strikers
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 бер 2021
- At last the time has come to discuss Persona 5 Strikers for nearly an hour and Meti makes a surprise appearance. I cannot click on the book father.
Flair's Channel: / @flair4676
Meti's Channel: / metbobobo
Channel membership:
/ @fitherfith - Ігри
Fither and Flair calling Zenkichi Dojima, but not calling Sophia Aigis is upsetting
Sophia ain't tho. AI is software and Aigis is Hardware
@@mettatonneoex [Idea!]
Aigi-Sophi
A Velvet Room fusion of the 2
@@mettatonneoex I think he’s referring to them being non-human characters who have the same goal of understanding humanity in order to help it. Not that they are the same entity.
No matter your opinion, we can all agree on one thing.
Haru having more screen time is a good, good thing.
This coming from Akechi has me so conflicted lmao
@@closet__optimist he do be spitting facts doe
Her screen time felt really well integrated
I read that in akechis voice
Finally, good character building for Haru!
Kid Konoe: Stabs father
P-Thieves: "this is so sad!"
Akechi: "Dood, that's hilarious!"
"Good job kid."
“STAB HIM SOME MORE!”
I wish ryuji had more to say during the konoe section since he was also abused by his father but I guess they wanted it to give zenkichi the moment.
Yusuke could've had something to say, too.
You guys missed the mark with the Sapporo jail. The comically evil guys were punished. They had their hearts changed by hyodo, it's mentioned by zenkichi near the beginning of the city and later when they find the owada evidence in Okinawa. Hyodo needs to be stopped because for as much some people need to be changed, she's mostly ruining normal people's lives in an attempt to save the city as she sees it. The theme of the jails is the thieves don't want always want to stop the monarchs cause they can see the monarchs side of the argument
Yeah their critique of the Sapporo arc was pretty off. The only thing I agree with is Hyodo's connection to Gluttony is kinda flimsy. I think it's the best of the first 3 and Hyodo deserves credit for developing Haru in a great way.
@@Rodrigo-uo9ww Hyodo basically fixed everything about Haru imo
@@Rodrigo-uo9ww It’s actually interesting to think about it though. Jails are very differently made and, in some way, are deliberately brought into existence. Akane’s jail, for instance, is a very short and simple one to get through. There’s not even a cage that needs opening.
I theorize that maybe Jails take time to form completely, and need the monarch to become more distorted for the jail to become more harder to navigate. So, in a way, Jails aren’t taking advantage of someone’s bad desires...they’re using these people’s weak points to force them into becoming bad people, since it’s what fuels the jails themselves.
@@studio_1 I actually believe there's more to it then just that . I had this idea while thinking about jails and palaces and I finally think I understand the biggest difference.
A twisted person creates a palace, a jail twists a person.
Emma is the one creating the jails not the person themselves. It's designed by her to make the monarchs do what she or Kanoe wants. Something to note is its possible that even Kanoe has been twisted by his jail in fact it's probably the while reason he was so far gone. Ichinose said EMMA was using Kanoe and so by giving him a jail she could twist him and make him believe the only way to "save" everyone like he wants, he has to go forward with his plan to spread the app and steal everyone's Desires.
This is also why the only way to change the hearts of the monarchs is to talk to them, since they can't be forcibly changed by taking a Treasure since there are no treasures to take. The thieves have to connect with the monarchs and make them understand that there's another way and to remind them of their original purpose, which you can see by the way all the monarchs mention the thing they forgot. Alice wanting to be a ray of light, natsume to save someone through his books, hyodo to improve the lives of the citizens she leads, Kanoe to be a hero and save those in horrible situations.
Once they remember they are able to cast off their "crowns" and return to the people they were before they were twisted by their trauma and the jails.
@@Vinylmelody1517 Yeah, and even Emma in the end seemed to be acting within what she labelled as right, seemingly figuring out her mistake in the end. It’s interesting how this game is a reversal of P5, where most villains aren’t mainly bad people. Just misguided.
Yes! Flair is back! I missed him so much! It’s not the same without him.
Okinawa was way too fucking good, the music, the atmosphere, the design, the mega p1 energy, it has everything
Not to mention that Pandora is Sophie's persona y'know the final boss of P1
I really don't like it when people compare Kasumi and Sophia because the whole redhead bless user thing is a very surface level analysis. Not only do they serve different roles in combat, but they are completely different people from each other. I think Kasumi has the better arc, but Sophia meshes better with the gang, which makes sense since Kasumi technically never becomes an "official" member since she doesn't 100% agree with their methods but she still respects them.
I agree 10 billion percent. I love both characters because they are so different from each other
Dude, the point of meti's argument was that there were many similarities between royal's and striker's plot structure and pointing out similarities. He was not at all comparing characters. The point of this part of the video was all of the surface level similarities. It is clear that they are very different characters and the argument was not at all to make one out to be better than the other.
Relax guy lol
I think the "conspiracy theory" in the video makes sense though - I can see the P5R and P5S teams getting the same design doc outlining what the higher ups decided the new marketable waifu needed to be (Quiet redhead with a twist about her identity and a relationship with the new villain), but being given enough freedom on how to do that to come up with characters as different as Sophia and Yoshizawa are. The bless attack thing would naturally come about since it's the only attack type another party member doesn't specialize in other than curse, which is sort of Joker's thing and doesn't seem to work with a character like this who isn't even slightly edgy.
Yes , Kasumi and Sophia share their elemental spells , but outside of that they're really different , Kasumi is a Light and Physical damage dealer while Sophia is a healer
Heck their Persona's stats are abrely similar
Pandora is agility and magic with ok endurance and luck, and strength the lowest
Ella is strength and magic with ok magic and agility and magic, and endurance as the lowest
So Sophia is a bulkier white mage, while Kasumi is frail and damage oriented.
@@OriginalGameteer
That last paragraph, you lost me.
@@OriginalGameteer so Tank versus Glass Cannon?
@@honkinggoose172 tank healer, so paladin-ish
*SPOILERS for the original*
*Persona 5 and Persona 5 Strikers*
When you think about it, Persona 5's ultimate antagonist was frighteningly proven right in the end due to what happens in Persona 5 Strikers. And I don't see Strikers' endgame arc as just a "rehash." That original antagonist and his ideologies being reborn in Strikers are proof of that. (Persona 5 Royal's added story proves this too, but that’s a different discussion.) The culmination of Persona 5's entire storyline (even with the addition of Royal's 3rd-semester epilogue) was finally delving into the depths of the general public's Palace that had been out of reach for the entire game up until that point. When the Phantom Thieves finally arrived at Mementos' Depths they were met with a distortion taking the form of a Prison of Sloth and a Treasure (going by the Holy Grail) that was given life through the people's intense desire to be controlled. All of the masses craved order, control, and the freedom not to think so much that the Holy Grail became a God of Control to fulfill everyone's ultimate wish. This god, going by Yaldabaoth, became so powerful that he set all of the events in Persona 5 in motion and acted as the story's puppeteer so he could prove that humanity truly wanted to be controlled and nearly completely fused the real world with Mementos if it weren't for the Phantom Thieves that he ironically helped create.
The Phantom Thieves went up against what most of the world truly wanted and wished for. Even if Yaldabaoth was seen as malevolent, the reason he was that way to begin with is because that's how humanity wanted and envisioned a ruler deep down: one that feels like they have no errors in judgement and exercise absolute authority. Yaldabaoth was the way he was because humanity is the way it is. Even if you, me, and the Phantom Thieves can look at Yaldabaoth's world and say how wrong it is, deep down a part of us secretly wants order and control like that. That's what makes Yaldabaoth's point compelling... because we all know we agree with him to some extent deep down. Even if the Phantom Thieves (and the player) argue freedom is ultimately better than security, they were going up against what humanity wished for nonetheless. Even if the god was defeated by his own creators (humanity) and his creations (the Phantom Thieves), deep down Yaldabaoth's point wasn't entirely wrong. In fact, his point would ultimately be proven if humanity were ever to relinquish freedom by allowing someone or something else to control them once again...
Persona 5 Royal and Persona 5 Strikers both present different continuations of Yaldabaoth's argument, but, in the end, both games' stories arrive at the same destination of the God of Control not being totally inaccurate. And what I love about Royal's added story and Strikers' story is that the two games never outright say "Yaldabaoth was sort of right to some extent all along." It's up to the player to realize and piece together the similarities (though Lavensa does point out how similar Strikers' endgame events are to the previous year's events). Despite the Phantom Thieves' hope and belief that the world was above what Yaldabaoth believed it to be, the masses ended up relinquishing their freedom to make decisions in favor of life becoming easier and their happiness being preserved. Royal with [REDACTED] and Strikers with EMMA. Half a year after the Phantom Thieves' ideology won out against the general public's/Yaldabaoth's, the world has turned to an AI to solve its problems. EMMA obviously doesn't exist in our world, but it's clear to see how it is a stand-in for our own technology and services we use (such as something like Google). The world of Persona 5 wanted EMMA to give them all of the answers and wanted it to be there for them when they were lost and needed guidance. The public wanted EMMA to do the thinking for them and as EMMA became more widespread thanks to Madicce, more and more of society started to rely on something else thinking and making decisions for them once again. And then once it was taught cognitive psience, EMMA was finally able to fulfill its prime directive: to fulfill humanity's ultimate desire. Similar to how Yaldabaoth was brought into existence to fulfill humanity's ultimate desire, Ichinose created EMMA to help the world attain its wishes and help it be happy. Which, unfortunately, is still to not make decisions. Despite the Phantom Thieves fight to restore humanity's freedom last year, the public once again gives absolute power to something which morphs into a being that is able to fulfill their desire for control.
EMMA, just like the Holy Grail, is given power through the general public and transforms into a symbol that the world sees as holy: the Ark of Covenant. It's no coincidence that EMMA turns into another symbol of divinity and that the Jail of the Abyss looks like Mementos 2.0 (fitting for an AI). Each Monarch has their Jail appear a certain way to reflect how they feel and what they desire. Why is it that EMMA's Jail looks like the Prison of Sloth with the addition of some technological aesthetics? Well, it's because that's what humanity's desire for control incarnate was the first time (with the addition of an AI being in control this time, hence the "2.0" descriptor being apt). The Jail is the way it is because that's the way the public wants it to be, just like in the original Persona 5. If the public wants it, EMMA will make it a reality for them. The music and setting for this Mementos-esque Jail make me unnerved simply because of what it represents: the rebirth of something the Phantom Thieves, and the player potentially, thought they were better than and fought against (almost disappearing from existence in the process)... only for it to be reborn anew. It's the idea that the entirety of what Persona 5 was building up towards was never truly gone completely so long as people remain slothful. The Phantom Thieves recognize the Jail's startling similarities to Mementos' Depths and even comment how familiar them staring down the Ark of the Covenant was to them encountering the Holy Grail last year. This all comes to a head when EMMA/the Ark of the Covenant gets enough power from the public to transform into a god (just like what happened with the Holy Grail). The striking similarities and resemblances are... unnerving to say the least. Could the God of Control be back? Did he somehow plan the creation of EMMA months after his demise in some convoluted way typical of lazy sequels that bring back villains in an unnatural way? ...luckily, the answer is no. The Phantom Thieves truly killed the God of Control, the plot in Strikers wasn't his doing. This time the god born from the masses is named the "Demiurge." ...in case you didn't know, in Abrahamic Mythology and Gnostic Mythology another name for the Demiurge is, well... Yaldabaoth.
"Could this be the second coming of the evil that rent me asunder? That locked away even my master?" - Lavensa, Persona 5 Strikers
The Phantom Thieves truly killed Yaldabaoth, but not the idea of him. Just like how Mementos' Depths were reborn as the Jail of the Abyss, how the Qlipoth World was reborn as the Tree of Knowledge, and the concept of the Holy Grail was reborn as the Ark of the Covenant, Yaldabaoth was reborn in a sense as well once EMMA was given enough power from humanity to turn into the Demiurge. Even if he was defeated, the world still wanted a being like him to control them once more, which ended up leading to his resurrection and rebirth of sorts. I love villains that have a long-term impact even after they're gone (kind of like Shido inadvertently inspiring Owada to follow in his footsteps), but what I don't like is when they're recycled in an unnatural or lazy way. Strikers, however, brings back and builds upon Yaldabaoth's plan in a way that falls in line with the logic already established in the previous game. It isn't just the same old Yaldabaoth returning all according to plan nor is it simply recycling ideas. This wasn't Yaldabaoth's plan, he just ended up being proven right in the end with his second coming of sorts. It's up to more people other than Phantom Thieves to prevent Yaldabaoth from being reborn once more by wanting to live for themselves even when life gets tough. That's why I don't see it as a "rehash" because it expands upon the original ending and reinforces the idea that people need to continually live for themselves. It brings back and expands upon Persona 5's concepts in a natural way that falls in line with the Persona universe's established rules. It isn't some contrived garbage in an effort to copy the original Persona 5's story. Let’s just hope Yaldaboath or any sort of “reborn” version stays gone for good this time after Strikers, since I'd personally like to move beyond Persona 5 (as much as I love it).
Jeez dude make your own video
Dude please post this somewhete else or make a video or something . I want to read all this but I'll forget to return to it.
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE A VIDEO OR I WILL DO IT FOR YOU.
Dude. YES. This needs a platform, this is compelling stuff man!
I'd watch an hour long video going into depth about the points in your comment no cap
Wow. The Konoe scene got straight to me. I'm shocked how strongly you guys were taken out of it.
I personaly thought the entire Konoe char was awful. Every scene with him was really dumb.
lol can't believe anyone was affected by the konoe scene
@@haroldallaberg6359 True. It was really bad executed.
His dad looked like he had schizophrenia and got into an argument with someone over a “but can he beat Goku?” Comment
Im pretty sure they said Konoe stabbed his dad like 20 times or something so that’s actually pretty metal
*SLAM* 28 STAB WOUNDS!
Damn, I completely forgot about that. I'm surprised he didn't end up a more broken man.
Konoe's Jail was by far the best part in the entire game tbh. Amazing backstory + bossfight.
I think Ichinose was very, very close to being a disaster, but she ended up really good. I really hate this whole "The person I've been the entire game wasn't real, so the character you liked doesn't exist and your attachment to them was pointless" thing, and I think Persona tends to either narrowly hit or miss on that (Ikutsuki was 100% that, but Adachi wasn't, and then Akechi was in vanilla but wasn't in Royal), and Ichinose in the endgame signals really hard in that direction, but then I love how her arc isn't "Oh I can be a good person too" but more "Oh I guess I actually was a good person all along deep down and I've been telling myself I'm not to run away from my emotions", which is so much more interesting than "nice lab coat lady was evil all along"
I mean, the stuff in her flashback implies she has a hard time expressing emotions that ppl think would be acceptable. She was grieving, but not crying. Her behavior throughout the game was said by the PTs to be weird and overly happy, and I’m sure plenty of ppl were suspicious of her strange behavior and her constant glee. Overall I think negativity just isn’t something she expresses so crying or feeling sad about ppl getting hurt isn’t immediately obvious, but it’s there. Which would explain why she acts too happy at times. She could also be overcompensating emotionally by trying to be as friendly and happy as possible since back then ppl thought the way she emoted was wrong.
Basically, she seemed fake. And then the twist she wasn’t faking at all, and she’s just like that and ppl (including the audience to an extent) thought of her badly for misunderstanding her. just like everyone else in her life.
That was actually a nice twist. She allowed herself to believe what people thought she was. She was similar to Maruki as they want to have humanity in a fantasy world so humanities so their own suffering goes away.
I'm still annoyed at the Akechi thing, since I got that he wasn't like that in the original game, and then Royal comes out and suddenly everyone sees it even though he's not different at all.
I think the problem was that Akechi in Vanilla was so far removed from a normal confidant that it tended to miss the mark. With Royal, you can still see what makes Akechi Akechi through his false mask. It's just more obvious because you're actually able to hang out with him rather than having him be this distant detective that's monitoring your every movement.
This game is 10/10 just because Ryuji finally says the F word. I'll post the second half of my review in the morning since it's midnight where I live.
I disagree with your thoughts on the Sapporo Arc, it was arguably my favorite. Hyodo was a very well developed villain, and her relationship with Haru was fantastic. But I gotta say, I agree with the Konoe bit. The fact that we don’t actually see Konoe himself getting beaten really took me out of the experience.
The game didn't outright say phone bad more than phone CAN be bad. Sophia outright says at the end that it comes down to how we use AI/phones. I mean how could the message be phone bad if we have soneone like Sophia in there? I got a little upset when you guys said that you believe the devs were just dumb enough to do it when in fact you didn't get it. Just wanted to get that out there, I don't dislike you guys and don't want to be too negative so I wanted to add that I do like your content
Hello in Mariko arc, the corrupt mayor who pin blame on Mariko already being arrested after his confession on corruption
Igor was probably not in the game cause the actor passed away like awhile ago and they've just been getting by reusing his old lines which I imagine wouldn't have worked here. Japan's real weird about recasting when someone dies
Makes you wonder how they are gonna manage him in the future games, if they can't then they shoulda just had him not come back in p5. Would make yaldabauoth a better villan
Igor isn’t in the game cuz it’s a spin off. He’s never in any spin off. He’s only in main line games.
@@ma.2089 Considering Atlus's care for this game(their involvement at least)
He would probably be in had his VA not passed too long ago
I mean all of his lines in p5 are reused from previous games
That’s just is Japanese actor
I don't get the "don't put a stop to them, their a victim" thing
Yes the monarchs suffered royally. But they *also* brainwashed a city's population to a disastrous degree. Innocent people got caught in the crossfire and were suffering as a result. The monarchs did bad things, whether it be driving people to bankruptcy over wanting their stuff or working EVERY government worker to harmful degrees.
And Sapporro was definitely my favorite. The scene where Hyodo wanted to resign but was stopped by the dead child's mother stopped her made me cry.
For the sins:
Alice, lust. Natsume, vanity/greed. Hyodo, gluttony. Ubukata, sloth. Akane, wrath. Konoe, pride. Ichinose, envy.
And The Ark of the Covenant has at least differences to the Holy Grail. The tendrils are different meanings; the grail had veins extending to the farthest reaches of Mementos, him exerting his influence on humanity. The Ark's were roots (as shown with the Great Tree) converging into the ark. Humanity exerted their desires onto EMMA.
And no it's not "phone bad". It's to show we can't rely on an outside entity to think for us, an honestly unnerving parallel to real life. AI makes our lives easier, but to a point where it may be easier to just listen to AI rather than deciding on things ourselves.
My only gripe with the concept is that Japanese society is significantly less forgiving that Western society especially for mistakes. Each of the victims did wrong things sure, but they all essentially got punished the same way and the results will be the same. The shame of scandals doesn't go away so easily in Japan even as they're trying to change that. Hyodo is probably going to lose her reelection campaign in a landslide. The only people who will read Natsume's works are people who want to rub salt into the fact that he's a defamed author and not for his work. Alice is probably going to be removed from show business and fashion forever. The hope given that these characters will bounce back comes across as rather hollow as a result. As a result, the putting a stop to their plans often comes across as essentially destroying their careers as it always results into the same overblown scandal reveal. People aren't going to forget it and give them a 2nd chance and it rubbed me a little the wrong way. I do agree though that they were doing bad things and needed to be stopped, but they should have been able to I dunno privately apologize, change their behavior, and do good as they once did as atonement. It's one of those preference things since Japan isn't exactly the most open and forgiving place.
I always love the discussions you all have, they’re very thought provoking! Here’s some things I was thinking about while listening.
For the Konoe back story, I felt the Japanese dialogue really sold the emotion and back story for it, I’m sad the English dub made it more of a meme. I was also very surprised Meti forgot Ichinose’s name, her being one of the stand out characters for me.
Sophia by herself makes the game worth it. Her entire story was fascinating and leads to such an amazing pay off. Zenkichi is an awesome character too and offers a unique perspective and interesting interactions with the rest of the phantom thieves. Seeing their growth all the way to the end was so worthwhile to witness.
UGH I can’t agree more on how underused Lavenza was.... no Igor was disappointing too.
The music is one of the best parts of the whole franchise and Scramble/Strikers has some of my favorites. The gameplay is also great but I wish bond xp was a little more generous, even with the exploit you can use in some of the towns. One last criticism I could think of is I wish the character portraits from royal could have been imported to Scramble/Strikers.
Every enemy in the game can be hit with ailment. Even. Bosses. Yes even the reaper who I have frozen and inflicted with dizzy .
And since frozen can cause technical damage off phys and dizzy can cause tech damage off basically anything, its one of the few ways to break reapers shields and hit home with all out attacks.
Ailments are not useless in fact they've arguably never been more useful.
Some enemies resist certain ailments. For example, shadow hyodo resists freeze but she's capable of being hit with dizzy and burn.
And with dizzy and sleep, even almighty attacks can break shields since they cause technical damage off them. Which is why lucifer with dormina and morning star can one shot almost any mob and melt through bosses.
This is probably the only persona game where I kept ailment boosting moves on my teammates like freeze boost on yusuke etc.
I gotta say, this might be the first time I generally don't agree with their views on persona. Especially things like the velvet room, Kanoe and the p5r stuff
I concur with others in the comment section that I think you missed the mark with Hyodo and the Sapporo Jail. It wasn't my favourite, but her story was about as consistent as the rest.
Obviously, the focus on the antagonists in this game is a deeper dive in the idea of trauma. Cognitive Distortions are real things in psychology and are typically a result of trauma, but Persona 5 kind of inadvertently slipped into the notion that only the world's biggest scumbags have them (even suggesting Futaba was a rare exception to this rule), it was nice to have an entire game challenging the PT's beliefs and help them realise that people who aren't bad still fall into a neurodivergent mindset that massively warps their perceptions.
Trauma isn't all-encompassing or universally relatable, so in my eyes it's good that you see them as 'hit or miss', because different people resonate very deeply with different Monarchs.
In my case, I see a lot of people say that Natsume's story was weak, but as a Creative Writing student who was labelled an oddball through school and college, I really teared up when Yusuke said that it was a lonely endeavour and that the greatest talent of all is the ability to keep pushing on.
In Hyodo's case, her story is masked slightly behind the responsibility culture of Japan. It's not really 'relatable' to a lot of us, but her taking responsibility for a subordinates' malicious acts and losing her way trying to root out 'evil' feels like a very natural escalation.
After all, it's mentioned in P5S that Konoe gave them their Jails in their time of need, and 'if you're desperate, you'll take what you can get'. So to call her a cartoonish villain feels a little bit unfair.
I thought Natsume was really good
Putting in the 110% effort just to get nowhere, never acknowledged by others for even trying, always being compared to his famous grandfather. It hurts to see
I really connected to Natsume too, the thing that was extremely relatable was that I always fear of ending up like him. Like: I love animation and want to study it when I go to college, i am always inspired by awesome and magical movies (ghibli ecc.) and I think “I want to do that too, I want to inspire people with my work.” But something always bothers me: what if I just end up being mediocre? What if, no matter how much effort I put in learning, Im just gonna create the usual shitty animated movie? Seeing natsume’s story made me scared and hopeful at the same time: he’s what I’m afraid of becoming. But then seeing Yusuke tell him that no matter what he’s always going to give his works a chance, almost made me cry. There will always be people who will enjoy my work, and I’m gonna put all my heart and effort into it, and if I suck, I will eventually get better.
Absolutely loved this arc.
Oh and i really liked Hyodo’s story too, especially Zenkichi’s speech about how a leader has to be capable to take the blame for things, felt incredibly real.
@@OriginalGameteer not even just being always compared, it's worse
he learns he's so far below that his editors aren't even trying to mentor him or anything, they just want to exploit him and his name
any hope he had to become good is shattered, gone, reduced to meta-physical atoms, because the people around him who should be helping him have basically told him "lol you don't have a fucking chance doing it the normal way"
Something that makes Akira's Trama cell scene or whatever it's called funnier is the fact that Akira dad was voiced by ProZD
WAIT HOLY FUCK WHAT-
ya know for Persona 5 fans you seemed to have missed a lot of the context for why Alice and Mariko were Monarchs
No, Alice is not a bad person because she treated her producer like crap, she's a bad person because thanks to the bullying she received she can't stand seeing women in happy relationships, so she stole desires of men specifically to destroy their relationships
The douchebags who blackmailed Mariko already had their hearts changed by her and confessed, Zenkichi says as much, and he also says that what Marko's been through doesn't absolve her of brainwashing people to keep herself in power
Guys I'm not mad I'm just disappointed, apparently asking Persona 5 fans to pay closer attention the plot of persona 5 spinoff game is asking too much
also your complaint about Lavenza is a side effect of the social simulatoraspects being cut
I like these guys but I couldn't agree more with you. I get not being into the general story of the game, but it feels more like they skipped whole scenes of the game or are just straight up feigning ignorance
@@bgbss680 Dude I fither too so it hurts that I, a person who's not the biggest Persona fan can call a a persona mega fan on not paying attention
@mrcristofer 2013 Nah, it's not.
@mrcristofer 2013 K? 🤷
@mrcristofer 2013 better than persona 4
An hour long Fither and Flair video? what did we do to deserve this blessing?
I just realized that Igor’s never in the spin-offs.
He’s not in P4A, P4D, P5D, P3D, P5S, PQ, or PQ2.
He appeared in P4AU for like five minutes
Thats because he's already helping the next games protag
He is in the P4A fighter's Select screen
@@bippythechippy882 I meant in the story. Also flashbacks don’t count.
He would probably be in p5s if
You know
His VA was still alive
I really don't think Royal and Strikers clash that much. We don't really see confirmation of Ann and Ryuji's school status, Sumi wasn't really a phantom thief and she was probably busy with her training, and Mona was always inconsistent on being a cat(in the third semester mementos dialogs he has a few where he denies being a cat). All they would need to do to is address why Sumi wasn't in Strikers.
Considering they were being developed at the same tine, it makes sense why we see no hint besides some offhand remarks near the end of Sumire, Akechi, and Maruki.
@@thekirbycrafter7229 that's the actual reason. But because of the actual reason people think the lore reason is an alternate timeline. Which I think is blatantly false.
@@JoelPerry1 fair enough my mistake
What's wrong with Strikers and Royal taking place in alternate universes? I really don't think anything is lost.
Honestly the thing that surprised me the most was how good the writing is bar the bathhouse scene, it’s really damn good lmao
Fist! Of! Justice!
I was hoping that they would go for a Different thing, like the Girls dont give a shit and send them away
Nice to see I wasn't the only one who disliked that scene
@@discordwho7469 it's a direct reference to p3 even happening in the same city in either the same hotel or it's at least purposely designed to look the same.
Like seriously, why didn't the guys just sit still and when they opened the door they go "Oh, did the times change already? We'll just get out of your way ladies."
And of course the girls had to lose all their brain cells and refuse to listen. Just another reason to hate makoto I guess.
In short
Yusuke is the storm that is approaching
Sophie is a precious treasure, Like Aigis before her
Zenkichi is the best
And the music slaps, as usual
Everyone forgets my girl Labrys :(
@@thekirbycrafter7229 Oh, I'm not forgetting Labyrs. Labyrs is actually my favorite, honestly.
I wish they added a set of Lavenza requests where you have to face every shadow thief one on one. It would be amazing to be a true test your endurance and mastery with every character. Also allowing the 5th palace to have 2 boss fights you can redo would be amazing.
Also I wish they added costumes again. Even if it wasn't that much.
i loved literally almost everything about P5S. i definitely saw the similarities with Royal's new content, and yeah the IDEA of the final boss was kinda dumb being yaldaboth 2 but i genuinely enjoyed almost everything else
the game is pure fanservice. weak story, but funny moments sprinkled throughout.
The boys are back and meti too
The miku snow statue from yakuza 5 was the one that crushed the kid in strikers
P5S feels like a true, good sequel to P5, even if it may not be as in-depth as it's predecessor. It expends on the characters inways that feel natural, and the characters it introduces are fairly well written.
Although, there are still 2 specific points in the story where you just get a semi-lazy-feeling exposition dump (And if you've played through P5S, you know what I'm talking about). Those two parts were probably where it felt the most rushed for me, which is a shame, because the game could really use more endgame content. The final 2 dungeons are extremely small, which is a shame considering how much they could've done with them.
Probably a side effect of doing a Persona story with less time, even Persona 5 struggled with like how the Joker escape had like half the detail made optional Futaba dialouge because it was already too long a scene
I personally think that fusing is BETTER in this game than in base P5 and Royal since now you auto register any unregistered persona you want to fuse and if you need a persona you don't have for a fusion but is in the compendium you pay for them right there instead of having to go get them from the compendium
Royal definitely did the fusion system better, the results based fusions streamlines in for the tone strikers took but I’d be really sad if the next mainline game stuck with it rather than just having me throw shit together
I just platinumed p5 scrambled eggs last night, and damned if the whole experience wasn't great. Good on atlus for giving haru alot more screentime now, lol. If there was any one thing that stood out in this game, it's the godlike music. Like, holy shit, lyn just gets better the more osts she sings in. Top two favs are definitely make a wish and counterstrike
I was just happy to play a P5 game on PC and the fact that there's a godlike being behind it all is pretty much a persona standard by now, its more about HOW it fits in thats inportant.
As for Lavenza and Igor, Igor not being present is a standard for persona spinnoffs, he also does't show up in the dancing or the PersonaQ games.
That said, she does say something cute once u unlock game plus Mode,but like all the other attendants keeps herself in check.
And be honest, we all just love redhead girls ;)
Just seeing the thumbnail i has a weird feeling you guys misunderstood stuff, and the review was gonna be negative as a result. I’m unhappy to discover I was right
Zenkichi legit has my favorite stand in the series. Its not a spoiler its in the opening.
Persona not stand
@@thatbluegamet That's the joke.
I don't think I've ever seen the two of you so painfully miss the point of something, while yes they are distantly victims the sheer scale of the desire stealing they were doing had to be stopped. In terms of just pure volume, the PTs stole 5 hearts and restored one during base game and that took a year. Each Monarch could do that in an hour. During a meetup? at least one per minute.
Two, each one consciously recognized something was going on and used it to shortcut their careers all the while their trauma was being used to ensure their shadows didn't leave and form a Palace (not the purpose but an effect nonetheless).
Three, it was showing the Phantom Thieves becoming a support pillar of their respective counter part in someway. Ann as a model is supportive of Alice being a light for those being bullied (her own dream in a different flavor), Yusuke helping a fellow artist out of the path his own mentor took and Haru returning the support to someone she considered a hero as a child. I think people keep forgetting Shadows in P5's metaverse are the SUPRESSED aspects of person. Aspects of their personality they are ashamed of and hide away from the world. They are essentially half a person so of course they are caricatures (more so here in Strikers as they actually keep that in mind).
So people who aren't bad, do bad things to shortcut to the actual goal and got lost on said shortcut. Alice took the shortcut to become famous faster but got too invest in that fame and forgot why she did so (and had to be reminded, that reminder causes her Shadow to return to Alice in full), Ango used it to get his story out there but took several wrong turns (the power, plagarism and negligence of his actual writing ability) and his Shadow returns after Yusuke supports him as and artist and vows to read his next book. I can't quote the line, but Yusuke says something along the lines of 'Even if only one becomes happy because of your work, it is worth it because that person smiled.' or similar enough for the nuance to not matter. Mariko wished to remove corruption from the local government because a child died from said corruption, the entire arc being about the desire to get to that position and stay there being why her Shadow is so gluttonous. Haru being Haru causes her Shadow to return.
They aren't bad, and the thing they are doing could literally change the entire country by force (the only times the PTs did something of that scale was to REVERSE a same scale change)
Oh the seven deadly sins thing...yeah that is blatantly false, in terms of predominant sin they all fall under gluttony, pride and envy in someway so they don't fill out that roster (at least overtly). Obviously Alice would represent the sin of lust but...one scene of masochistic tendencies and a monstrous form of her real life outfit are your only real points of evidence.
Of note all of their pasts don't consistently relate to said sins either, so there is no tonal through lines for the sins to be a theme of the story. Alice's origin lies in envy but becomes "lust". Ango's orign is in Wrath (spite) but becomes Pride (over-laping with Akira Konoe) and Ango is Wrath to Gluttony. So not only are there no sin based through-line, what sins they represent clash.
Basically, you literally shoehorned it onto the story and then have tried to call the story on this shoehorning.
It annoys me that this has happened when you are usually really good at analyzing things, even things I disagree with you on I could listen to you speak about them because they are well founded.
Edit: Spelling
Yeah I was looking forward to seeing their opinions on the story but I was kinda shocked to see them miss the point that hard
I enjoy some of his content but some of the takes reaaaally make me wonder if we played through the same scenes. Idk, maybe its just me. I get different opinions but man some things seem so arbitrary enough to be nit picks but there is so mich unnecessary time spent on them. Eh, idk
This game was an absolute hit for me! Loved the monarchs and their boss fights. I loved the character interactions. I loved the music and gameplay. I loved the story front the beginning all the way to the end. Ichinose is a babe. Sophia is a more interesting Aegis. I can't wait dor the sequel.
Despite the similarities, both Aigis and Sophia are really different. Especially due to how they develop & their personal goals. At the end, their goals are entirely different. Sophia is about forging an identity and learning about the heart to help people as per programming. Aigis is about learning to live, the value of life, her own identity beyond her programming. Sophia’s growth is faster as she is young and the game is significantly shorter. Aigis’ is slow burn and her story is more existential w/ less of an obvious answer unlike Sophia’s
Also, this game most likely will not get a sequel.
Y’all talking about Zenkichi being and adult and having a persona.
Me: “You realize that Makoto and Haru are adults in this game, right?”
EDIT: *SPOILERS*
Other adults showcasing personas:
- Mitsuru (P4A/U)
- Akihiko (P4A/U)
- Yukari (P4AU)
- Junpei (P4AU)
- Koromaru (P3/P4AU) yes, that’s right, dog-years baby!)
- Adachi (P4/AU)
- Then you’ve got the Velvet Siblings that are god-knows-how-old whom can summon Personas straight out of the Compendium
It’s not exactly new.
I think its more about him being probably the oldest we have had since persona 2 ( being about early to mid 40's if I remember right) as well as awakening to it at that age rather than when they were a teenager ( like most of your list except for koromaru).
In Persona 1 and 2 we see plenty of adults with Personas.
@@KnukkleJoeShow he is the oldest persona user ever and he maybe older than even the adult of P2 are as of the year 2017 which is when the game takes place.
one of the party members in ep is 56 years old, while zenkechi is is his 40’s
@@KnukkleJoeShow
I think you’re right.
The fact Goro didn’t get involved is making me think they’re saving the Goro Shlock for arena
I figure it should be mentioned that all the Jail Monarchs dealt with their own villains and, uh... kept going with the changing hearts thing but got a strange addiction to it, getting all that power.
Sophie was my favorite character to play as, why? Because Yo-yos.
Edit: loving the Alice ost in the background
Shadow Hyodo turns into a blob monster because - She's actually gluttonous for feasting on ballot votes and popularity in a desperate attempt to take her power back, likewise, her Shadow is morbidly obese and is constantly in a frenzied mood for food. She's also obsessed with making sure Sapporo is "pure white", overworking the civil wards to the point of exhaustion.
This game was truly amazing
I will not listen to this man's opinions HE PLAYS STYLISH ZATO.
dear god....
Bro I had enough of the skeleton gif in the morning stream why is he back
I expected the berserk dynasty game, and i got ff15×persona5 with a dash of dmc
I think igor being gone from strikers is due to the Japanese VA being dead and Japan never replaces Dead VAs, that's why all of igors lines in persona 5 was reused instead of rerecorded.
it’s not never it’s simply rare and it’s done with respect
Igor isn’t in the game cuz it’s a spin off. He’s never in any spin off. He’s only in main line games.
Personally I loved the story and characters. The main plot was a rehash but it made me care from beginning to end. As someone who didn't like Samurai Warriors I enjoyed the combat. Also playing as the Phantom Theives like Morgana
About the whole lavenza bit, it feels like it was on purpose that she didn't get ... much (to not say anything at all) like she's animated as little as possible, the bare necessary for her idle stance and for walking, it's even more on the nose when you have an accidental fusion where the aftermath is her just standing and as much as I find it funny that really makes me think that the folks at omega force tried to cut corners as much as possible dev time when it came to making side quests and/or anything related to lavenza.
I guess not having any time management to handle and by extension confidants is a factor as to why.... kinda ?
Well at least there was the reaper.... even though he's kind of a joke.
I'm a simple man: I hear one of my favorite JoJotubers say "P4G bad" I hit dislike on impulse (great discussion tho, seeing Fither and Flair back at it really made my day).
I kinda like Yaldabaoth 2. It makes Strikers feel even more like a true sequel.
I don’t really think that Emma was yaldaboth 2, here is my take. In lore it seems like things are able to take over mementos or the metaverse to achieve some sort of god hood. For example maruki seems to be one of them. We see him attach his powers to mementos to gain power. Yaldaboth is also a good example as we saw that he didn’t become as powerful as he was until he was able to fuse the metaverse with reality. Emma is just another example of that I believe that Emma did open up mementos again. This would explain the cords or wires connected to the arc. We also see the cages that the people in mementos sat in. Mementos seems to have the ability to give things god like power. Emma is one of those examples.
Here is a better explanation of each of the examples I gave when talking about mementos.
Maruki: attaches himself to mementos using vines that connects to the very bottom of mementos.
Gains some godlike power threw his ability to be connected to mementos sense mementos is the collective of everyone.
His ability is godlike, changing reality.
He also gains Adam kadmon who seems to be similar to a god threw size and though the thieves beat him without someone like satenael it’s shown that they do have that ability and are stronger enough to beat beings like that in strikers threw Emma.
Adam kadmon could just be similar to satenael which would still make him godlike.
Emma: connected to the bottom of mementos in the form of the ark. Uses the power of people’s desire threw the vines or tube like thing.
Gains reality warping ability that is strong enough to fuse both the metaverse and reality together.
Becomes a god like being.
Yaldy (ima call yaldaboath that from now on):
It’s hard to tell how strong he was before becoming the holy grail but he seems to be above egor but not strong enough to warp reality to fuse it wit mementos.
He uses the vines. Something odd about him is that he is a god but isn’t strong enough to do what other gods do so I guess that why he needed mementos..
But this was just me speculating on the god thing in p5. So to sum it up, beings in the persona universe are able to use the mementos sense it the collective conscious of the people and threw latching your self to mementos you can achieve some sort of god hood.
I've. Been. Waiting. For this.
I am so glad they acknowledged that konoe was a kamen rider.
bloodborne daddy is great but Sophia, Humanity's Companion is the best
I did every single request except for the morgana one that i didn't knew you could miss because the site didn't mark it as you could miss it and i realized it at the end of the game after beating the reaper
Just beat the game today after getting it mid november. I also had zenkichi, sophie and joker on my demiurge team and on normal mode it took me 45 minutes to beat him because they had almost no sp and no sp healing items so I beat him using joker and wolf gun attacks alone as well as all my hp items and futaba’s small sp recoveries.
I did the same thing but in hard( demiurge whoop my ass soo bad💀)
No one else realize that Akria-Konoe was just a mandalorian. He even had a lightsaber
His helmet visor is straight up Mandalorian styled
Also Zenkichi being in his 40s makes him Gen X or possibly very early Millennial. Not Boomer!!
Good discussion but there were quite a few surprising bad takes for who's talking. You guys got caught up on a lot of surface-level similarities or just general misconceptions
How did you guys not talk about the the Jack frost army scene? Or the Haru driving scene?
I actually didn't mind Yaldabaoth 2.0, i kinda expected it and for some reason liked it. I thought it fit, especially since it let them use the imo better name for Yaldabaoth.
Also the glorious Hee-Horde wasn't mentioned 0/10 review.
After Royal it's more Yaldabaoth 3.0.
All 3 final boss endgame was enslaving humanity in a fantasy world.
@@ci7210 I think the the third semesters was hella great though, curious to see how the new director and writers are going to do with the future spin offs and persona 6.
Like honestly, I enjoyed my time with Strikers. I had so much fun with the combat. The only issues I had with Strikers would be that Velvet room sucked, not just Lavenza. As you all said was just boring, and the fusion system. This game used just wasn't fun. I don't blame Igor for skipping the Velvet room this game. I thought that everything with the third monarch was fine, until the boss fight... ok this is bad. The music in this game is so good, between the remixes of Persona 5 songs, to the cities music(Some of these have no right being so good), and battle themes. I did feel a bit disappointed when I saw the mementos-like area, but, luckily, it wasn't a complete retread. I frickin love Sophia and Zenkichi, though I must admit my first reaction to Akane was "edgy Nanako." I would love to see either a sequel to Strikers or even another smt action spin-off game.
She’s basically a teen so no shit. Nanako was a daughter cute loli girl whereas Akane actually seemed more like a middle school turning teen
Another tier list but with the Royal and strikers
the monarchs aren’t evil they’re not great people they have terrible character flaws that are exasperated by the cognitive world and the jails alice is suffering from an inferiority complex caused by bullying the second monarch is a dedicated writer who has failed over and over again trying to write something good and because of his block with writing he plagiarized some better writers to try and make his own book and mariko hyodo is a mayor who originally used abilities to weed out corrupt officials who were trying to replace her as mayor and after they were gone she used the ability to make people vote for her
My interpretation wasn't "phone bad" especially since the phantom thieves also used their phones to infiltrate and fight back, I interpreted is as "your fate needs to be your own and handing it to those claiming to guide your way is foolish at best, brainwashing at worst" and considering persona games have pretty heavy anti-religious themes, it seems to be criticizing the idea of any sort of higher power, and those who follow those beliefs
I loved Akira's jail it is how I would imagine akechi's planned palace in genral I loved this game's dungeon theming is on par with base p5 Sophia is just Aigis but well written and in my opinion much much more charming Zenkichi is Dojima but if Dojima replaced Naoto the tragic back story of the dungeon owners all made feel for them besides the fat disney prince she was an F tier character
Does anyone else wish they’re was an adventure mode Equivalent in it
That would be cool
Royal made Lavenza pretty fun with such limited time. Lavenza in Strikers is awful in comparison.
Lavenza in Strikers is literally just doing unpaid extra hours,give her a break
I remember predicting when I learned the dad died that konoe killed him
Honestly I love the entire game
Sophie or Aigis? damn that is a hard one
I hope Zenkichi doesn’t end up like zen and rei I wanna see him make cameos or be a character in a theoretical 5 arena
I'm so sad Zen doesn't make cameos
He's the only regular party member who didn't need a persona, and one of the few benevolent gods in this series.
Zen and Rei are a god and ghost, respectively. Zenkichi is a normal human being. Chances are, we'll see Zenkichi a lot sooner than we'll see Zen and Rei.
a suprise Meti!
Hi February
Edit: February was a good month for me as well I got to sub milestone
I love Sophie, she is not Labrys teir but still great
I didn’t mind the demiurge thing, because yaldabaoth and the demiurge are the same entity mythology wise, and yaldabaoth was the only god to be killed in the main games, Nyarlathotep goes dormant, Nyx is sealed, Erebus regenerates regularly, Izanami peaced out, but yaldabaoth was destroyed, dissipating it’s power, so something coming into contact with that power and being turned into a new yaldabaoth makes sense to me
I think that futaba didn't had a ,,cognitive phantom thief version" because she was always in shadows, only one time people seen phantom thieves was on screen before shido fight, and there were everyone, excluding futaba
I have a "headcannon" that there are two side stories to P5S. The first is the Royal side story with Akechi and Kasumi. The next is that Takemi, Iwai and Mishima at some point got together and, one thing led to another, and they ended up in the metaverse and all summoned their own Personas and fought through whatever dungeon was nearby.
I need links to the illustrations at the credits PLEASE
yo now that persona 5 royal and strikers are out, can there be a revised SEES vs IT vs PT with the inclusion of the new elements added
I mean the result of the first videos was phantom thieves win so now it would just be the phantom thieves win way harder especially since futaba pulled off hacking emma which makes the idea of her taking over aegis and labrys way more likely.
@@TheGavinLaver true
And they defeated demurge without needing a super move (santanael), they can also defeat hoards of shadows at high speed, in royal they defeated god twice.
Zenkichi has the best build-up prior to awakening his Persona. He’s had enough time to interact with the group and bonding with them til the Kyoto Jail comes along.
What do you mean fusion was boring? It's easier to understand and utilize then ever before with so so so many quality of life changes. The way you can just pay to use personas in the compendium for fusions without having to go into the compendium, the ability to level up personas with points, the Stat boost system ( not the one in persona enhance but the one where you can build up stats on personas to give them max stats after a few fusion loops)that helps make max Stat personas easier, the fact that it's easier then ever to get skill cards to help make perfect personas.
I have had so much fun with fusion in this game since it's like a puzzle to get the right skills on you personas. Not too mention this is the first persona game where all my personas have max stats, which is a must have for merciless.
The RVelvet room would be so cool!
My head Canon is that the shop Sophia uses is Tanka's Ama.. I mean Shady Commodities
The Rance T-Shirt kills me
I think their points on lavenza is spot on for me lol I feel like she peaked in royal
The fact there exists official art of Zenkichi and Maruki makes me think Royal may have happened in the Strikers timeline but the Thieves don’t mention it either because the circumstances are difficult to explain to those who weren’t there, we don’t hear them discuss the events of Royal to the two newcomers or they don’t speak of it much out of respect for their leader.
24:15
Lmao, and on the villain I couldn't give a shit about, you got like that!
Oh, that's funny.
Apparently the reason the localization took longer was indeed due to the pandemic affecting the dub cast.
I got whiplash hearing Flair reference Gigaboots like that
These are... bad takes
so thats why the skeleton gif was on the stream
If I recall, didnt Morgana near the e d had a line that referenced Royal's events as a way to tie both games together?
It's ambiguous enough to possibly be referring to either Vanilla or Royal.
Morgana said that the final dungeon, an area based on Eden reminds him of "A Palace half a year ago that also corroded reality" - or February. The only Palace that matches this description is Maruki's Palace, which is also based on the Garden of Eden and is also capable of corroding reality. (While Yaldabaoth's Qlipoth World also corroded reality, it was two months before Maruki and looked much different.)
Also At the post-credits cutscene of the game, the Phantom Thieves say that they will part ways again, something they first did during Royal's true ending. (In the Vanilla ending, the Phantom Thieves never part ways and leave in Makoto's Citroen H Van together.)