Discussing Persona 5 Royal with PKFT1 (Part 2)
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- This is Part 2 of a two part Persona 5 Royal discussion I did with PKFT1, you can check out the first part here: • Discussing Persona 5 R...
And of course subscribe to PKFT1: / @pkft1627
I stream, sometimes: / wardenfither
Regarding Akechi's last line: I honestly think it would have been super fucking lame if they had given him some kind of "disappearing into the light" scene like Morgana had after defeating Yaldabaoth. Much better for him to just quietly vanish after dunking on him one last time.
True true
Without the vanishing part, cause you know, he's still there
Yeah, it makes way more sense that we don't get to say goodbye to Akechi and that you just quietly realize that a consequence of undoing Maruki's reality is possibly killing Akechi as well as sending Joker back to jail
If anything, his goodbye would just be a quick “Fuck you guys” and then just leaving when no one is looking
You guys totally didn't talk about one of my favorite parts and that's when everyone starts talking about their future aspirations and the next step after what they experienced. Such a big moment for the characters that I loved.
I'd say P5's main theme was moreso Freedom than just Rebellion, but yeah I feel as though thematically, Royal expanded on the idea of actual growth from the trauma that tied them down before and it really made the rest of the game feel whole. As well as the endgame feeling way more climatic than the original game.
Also from what I heard Scramble slightly references Maruki's palace as well as them going on a trip together seems like a big deal, which would only matter if they decided to go their separate ways like they did at the end of Royal. It doesn't seem to matter to much anyway, since both base endings are the same, in which the protagonist goes home.
The theme of Persona 5 is indeed officially "freedom". Which explains the Yaldabaoth part.
I mean basically you go back to base persona 5’s ending plus sumire is there. No too much happens canonically even though it feels big and the stakes were big.
@@ghifari77 I took “Desire” as one of the major themes. All of the villains have a want so strong that it corrupts them, and it culminates with how Maruki actualizes them for everyone.
@@SaberRexZealot I feel like that wraps back into the whole freedom theme since the desires that corrupts every antagonist is based around society and their own ways of being shackled to it and/or attempting to change society to their own image. Even with Maruki's actualization what he provides to at least the main cast are all surface level desires that puts them all in better places to society's standards.
Honestly loved p5r, the new characters were amazing, Sumire was honestly a really good twist and i really liked her character, and Maruki is really well written in the fact that he actually cares about the characters. Akechi's new confidant that helped us actually get to know him more and expanded his character was really nice as well.
That's exactly it, and why I think this game works so well, is that these three characters are absolutely *essential* to this new story. The Persona series rarely has individual characters matter too much, it's almost always just "the team" vs. "the bad guy." That's not the case here.
Without Maruki, the story doesn't work, because... because there's no story. He's literally the instigator
Without Akechi, the story doesn't work, because there's not a strong, vocal opposing force to Maruki's reality. Even if Akechi is legitimately, factually wrong about some aspects (like Maruki's motivations), he still serves a very important role as one of the moral extremes of this dilemma.
By the same token, without Sumire, the story doesn't work, because she's the *other* moral extreme. She is the deepest lens you, the player has into the way Maruki operates, how he made sure to ask her consent before trying to reinstate her as Kasumi, and how he's always, always gentle and kind with everyone. She was personally affected by Maruki more than anyone in the group, and yet she probably dislikes him and his reality the *least,* and in fact expresses her gratitude for what he did on multiple occasions. While it's not quite as direct as Akechi's role in the story, Sumire is still really good at showing the potential *good* things about Maruki's reality, and I just think she was executed really well.
Sorry to get all analysis-y on your short and nice comment but I just can't help myself sometimes. Thank you for your time.
Here’s a funky little fact to get out there: shortly after Akechi and Joker leave the palace after Maruki takes Sumire in, there’s a flashback to the scene where he’s holding Sumire, and he’s wearing a fully modeled version of what was in his concept art. Turns out it was changed mid-development and no one bothered to retake that shot. The bowtie do be looking snazzy tho
Where can I find this im curious what that looks like in game
Edit: found it the bowtie is nice but id need a better look to decide if I like it more or less than the final costume
@@dipper9496 You can find the concept art for his palace costume on his wiki page
Weird
I really like the ending to P5R because I feel like it is not as satisfactory on purpose, like, everyone has thing to do, places to be at, and responsibilities to attend to, meaning that the group won't meet as much as they like to, and even though everyone is moving forward it still stings that they all must move on, but that's the point, that's the reality that you fought for, not one where everyone is always happy and you never need to make sacrifices, but one where life can really suck sometimes, but you must move on because that's just how the world is, and even when nobody looks as happy as they look in the original ending, everyone moves on for the better, be it Maruki rebuilding his life, Ryuji fighting for his career, or Makoto pushing for a grand goal, everyone is actually in a better place than they were in the original ending, is just that sometimes that change for the better comes at a price
Idk, that's my interpretation, but I really like that ending
Truth.
Absolutely agree, it’s not perfect happy ending but a bittersweet one.
I kinda hated Maruki lived...but I guess it would have been worse if Joker actually killed him storywise.
Agreed. I loved the ending
Third Semester made P5 feel complete. Something about the Vanilla ending just felt empty in a way, like it was incomplete sorta? The whole expansion of Akechi's character and finally giving Lavenza some goddamn screentime was super worth playing through 100+ hours of what was essentially P5 Vanilla NG++.
Lavenza going to sleep on that couch was so adorable
After re-watching the scene I'm fairly certain that Ryuji remembers you when you go to talk to him in the third semester. He says something akin to "how do I know you anyway", but what he means when he says that is "How did we meet?". The cognitive dissonance of the characters being your friends and phantom thieves in conjunction with their ideal lives is the main thing that helps them remember who they are.
I read that, internally, they called the endings "stay" and "return" because they didn't think the usual "good/bad/true" applied.
Honestly how maruki got his position as the new god essential went over me the first time. After rereading it, I got the idea that he didn't steal it. Basically when the phantom thieves won, the people started believing in them. So once the world was remade, they became the new gods.
But since the phantom thieves subconsciously didn't want it, it diverted to Maruki, the person who they opened up their desires. Add the fact he already had the power to warp reality, he now can change cognition at the level of warping the entire world, since he got that power boost.
The PTs did say after that heist that they want to leave the responsibility of the world to respectable adults. Doc must have came into their heads first when they said that.
Imagine if Akechi didn't want to leave the dream world. Imagine the discussion you would have to have with him like "You are dead. We could keep you alive by doing nothing but we will do everything in our power to make sure you die."
I’m sure Akechi wanted to live, I mean his dream that Maruki actualized was to be with Joker, Akechi was just to stubborn to admit it
Something to remember that I somewhat overlooked,
the resurrected characters are not a result in change in cognition, Akechi confirms they are real
that really mind boggles me on the level of strength the Chad Maruki is at, alright Imma head out.
maruki is canonically on the same level as, like, literal death and gods, so yeah the chad levels are off the charts with this guy
AND he gives snacks, i mean, come on, what more could you possibly want?
@@eclecticspaghetti He was basically on the same level as Yaldbaoth. When The Phantom Thieves beat him Maruki took his place.
@@lolzman999 Yeah, and considering he's seen the error of his ways, its really the best possible outcome that power went into such a pleasant dude.
@@djshock5353 oh god yeah. can you imagine if literally anyone else got ahold of this reality warping power? things would be absolutely fucked
@@eclecticspaghetti Things would really be screwed. Having a power of an Admin would be so easy to fall into corruption and into a major 'god complex'. Hell, if it weren't for the Thieves reality check, Maruki almost lost himself into it.
With the third semester maruki and sumire became two of my favorite characters of all of persona, i like sumire a bit more though since i can relate to her more
Goro walks into Leblanc, sees Wakaba alive, and he puts out his gun and shoots her square in the head. "That solves that!" says Goro! *Reloads pistol* "Well, on to Okumura now!" he says, walking out the door.
lol. He'd have no reason though.
@@melonsauce1474 Knowing him, he'd say it's for "making the universe right again".
I actually just finished the 3rd semester a few minutes ago, what a coincidence.
I finished it yesterday!
@@alanhegewisch4486 Niiice
@@gangstar2152 How did you like it?
@@bradleysmith4967 I think it had some of the best moments in the entire series and Maruki has got to be one the best villains to be in any piece of media.
I finished it like an hour ago
The Morgana voice things was a mistake. In the Japanese his human voice actor is the same a s his cat one and when they dubbed human Morgana they didn't correctly put in the sounds of human Morgana in English.
He's voiced by a woman in the west, Cassandra can't make herself a teenage boy, if they kept the same VA he'd sound about 12.
I actually disagree with Akechi being his "old" self in the ideal ending, because if you listen to the voice acting, you can hear that his voice completely lacks the distinct "edge" that it has even when he's being the Detective Prince. Aside from being absolutely god-tier performance on Robbie Daymond's part, I think it shows that he never needed to pretend to be anyone else in the first place.
In this reality, Shido is in prison, and Okumura and Wakaba are still alive, which means we can only infer that Akechi never worked for Shido in the first place, which means that... this is just who he is now. Once Mementos fuses with reality, it can literally rewrite history, so this isn't out of the question in the slightest. This is how Akechi would have turned out if he had never had to go to Shido.
And regardless of whether you think this ending is good or bad, that is just... *incredibly* emotional.
Also, can we just take a moment to point out the symbolism of Maruki *literally* putting Akechi back in the picture in this ending?
Unfortunately only problem with that is that that ends up being mainly head canon and the writing being done by the viewers and not the writers themselves, but I like the idea
I know the Persona series kind of teaches us otherwise, but it is not necessarily bad writing to not spoon feed absolutely everything to you.
Wait when did Maruki put Akechi into the picture?
@@lucrativelucas2655 When they're going to take the group picture after graduation, Akechi says he'll be the cameraman, which means he himself won't be in the picture. When Maruki shows up, he offers to take the picture instead, allowing Akechi to be in it.
Holy shit I didn't realize that Maruki putting Akechi in the picture was symbolic
On the topic of more palaces being structured like Maruki's, as in wanting to see the memories of other villains so they could feel more human, that actually was planned for the game, In both Kamoshida and Madarame's palaces, they have unused scenes of how they became so messed up and got to this point. Scenes themself aren't great but its more about the idea
Kamoshida:ua-cam.com/video/_3OmoSAFMzs/v-deo.html
Madarame: ua-cam.com/video/2LvM-bSxbZ8/v-deo.html
Thank god they cut it.
@@Mclucasrv Really? I liked them. Gives some insight to how were decent people could fall that far.
@@Mclucasrv I think the idea is not to justify what they did but to explain what kind of situation lead each palace ruler to be controlled by their desires.
On the other hand, I definitely agree that these scenes are very simple and in some cases even stupid but the idea itself is good.
@@Atlas71_ 100% agree, it felt like it was meant to be a "this is how they got here" type of thing and not an attempt to justify what they did. IIRC, in the two cut scenes that were data mined, neither villain was shown as being sad or having dark backgrounds, or even being remorseful for their actions. Kamoshida's was him basically realizing he was untouchable, and Madarame was letting Yosuke's mom die in front of him while she asked for his medicine. I think if anything, it actually reinforces that they are bad people, and the scenes highlight when they truly descended into full on villain territory. I think it would have been cool to see included, since several of the villains are fairly shallow, which makes them feel less narratively satisfying to defeat.
@@paulg.4812 Im really conflicted because I understand where you guys come from but at the same time I think the chances of what happen with Akechi would happen with them. It would have more discussion on what lead those guys to do those things than about the acts and the victims themselves. But well the game is out and they make their decisions.
the final answer of the multiple choice was BE A PHANTOM THEIF Ryuji was right! IT WAS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL and it's kinda sad that not everyone got to see the fakeout that happens when you get all three answers right.
As for how Maruki obtained power, it wasn't that he was in mementos or anything, but when the worlds merged his persona became real. Then once Yaldabaoth died, the phantom thieves were given the position of godhood. They got what they wanted, but not consciously. Maruki was aware of these desires still and was able to reinterpret them upon reality by seizing the opportunity. Which is why he doesn't take power if you don't help him finish his paper, he doesn't confront the shido professor at his former university and can't get into an "I told you so" mentality enough to actualize his stuff. His persona isn't ready then and he doesn't rebel against his corrupt authority. Thus the thieves are able to turn down the godhood thing to make it go away.
What happens if you get everything right? I messed up the final question but it was obvious in retrospect.
@@alanhegewisch4486 if you get the last question right, you take the elevator up and you're greeted with a shadow doctor so you think you've fucked up and the party freaks out for a moment before they congratulate you and hand you some item as a treat. It's really small, but it really smacked me in the face the first time it happened.
Oh yeah if you get one of the earlier questions wrong? That scene doesn't happen. you have to get ALL THREE right to get trolled by the game because they wanted to mess with perfectionists.
@@nahnah390 Oh yeah, and then you have to crawl through a vent because you can't actually go into the paradise, right?
@@eclecticspaghetti something like that, yeah. you go to a hallway and there's some kind of invisible wall that blocks you off.
Honestly though, yeah that is a really cool fake out how Ryuji was right the whole time. I really thought the answer would be “Never steal anything.”
I find it really weird how maruki never brought up that if he is defeated then Rumi will go back to being so traumatized that she can't even speak
One redhead falls to save another
I mean she basically overcomes it herself, at the end she's gotten over the trauma and learned to be herself and not her sister
@@radicalthinking5651 im not talking about Sumire/Kasumi, Im talking about Rumi, Rumi is Maruki's girlfriend that motivated him to research cognitive pscience in the first place
@@kiroubada I totally misunderstood my bad my guy/gal, sorry to bother you and have a good day
@@radicalthinking5651 don't worry it didn't bother me, have a good day 2 pal
I don’t think Ryuji forgot about Joker, because how would he know to go to Leblanc to talk to him?
Yeah I'm pretty sure he just goes "what are you doing here man?" when you go to talk to him. He hasn't forgotten you but he's clearly much closer to his track team friends than he is to Joker
It is just that in an alternate timeline where the Kamoshida incident never happened, Ryuji wouldn't be your best friend, he would just be some dude you went to school with. I also think there are some explicit consistencies in Maruki's reality just because he hasn't fully taken control of the planet yet ... and there is an inherent inconsistency in "giving everyone what they want" because reality itself if based on bad things happening. Sumire might have wished to be Kasumi ... but maybe her dad wished for both his kids to be alive.
Fither, I like your backgrounds a good bit, its part of the channel's charm, never change it!
I feel like the ending is about growing up and letting go. There’s that scene earlier on where each of the thieves talks about how they’re moving away to pursue their dreams, really work towards them instead of having them given to them by Doc, and to do that they have to step out of their comfort zone and go out alone. I think Joker (and Mona lol) going out on the train solo makes perfect sense in that way. It isn’t as sweet as them all going on a road trip together, but I think that’s the point.
Hey Fither I was thinking a good video idea would be to talk about the connection between a character's persona and its symbolism and the character itself. For example, how Akihiko's Caesar represents how he is one guy trying to be bigger than he is to protect everyone like the little man in Caesar or how Caesar the person was just a man trying to be bigger than he actually is, or how Cendrillon is Cinderella and how that relates to Kasumire.
I can't believe I just noticed his avatar is him in the twins outfit. Would love to see an IRL pic of him cosplaying them lol
ua-cam.com/video/G2msXF453ek/v-deo.html
Be amazed
@@Emo_Kane Wow he looks just like his avatar lol
I think to kasumi is a great character and really benefits on a second Through Like I like all the little details like 1/2 Is the day the spell Breaks like in cinderella it Breaks at 12 or Stuff in her link Where she talks about trying to find her herself and she doesn't feel like she's in the right body. I love all the Deeper meaning in dialogue like this as well as just how well her persona fit her. (imo the best persona to Character In the series)
I always hear how people complain about her not being relevant that she could have been removed but like Without her you would go to maruki and he be like Hey do you want your wishes granted or not. She is the reason why you notice the bad in maruki.
My biggest Complaint is her play time. (But that's an issue I solve myself)
I think that akechi was alright in the 3rd semester But at the same time he can't didn't need to exist in my opinion I feel like you can pretty much made Mona do everything he did. Not to say I hate the character or anything He just feels unnecessary to come back to me.
maruki is a great character i love what they do with the character Even several things like instead of trying to give away saying you need the social link in order to get the new stuff the tell you hes leaving soon which encourages you to talk to him without telling. And I agree with a lot of opinions on him in the video.
If I had a list my biggest problem with Royal it was too easy Ecspecially if you get like technical ranks up to 4 to guarantee a knockdown you can just sleep every enemy in the game Making normal encounters in most Mini bosses an absolute joke. it doesn't help when the final boss fight while cool last for like 10 to 20 turns. Persona 5 wasn't the hardest game but it Normal difficult fell somewhat of a challenging. Where In Royal normal He's so mindlessly brain dead to me And it doesn't help That merceless could Be considered easier since you get more money more exp And crits and technicals Do 3 times more damage so if you take advantage of that by being fast you probably gonna have easier time.
One change I would make to the final Fight is to make it so If you do not have a max Social link with a character (with sumire and Akechi Social link rank not mattering) Then they can not Use the persona in the boss fight because they Are not strong enough. Which leaves you if you don't do anyone you will have a party of Morgana sumire and akechi
I love the idea that if you didnt max the confidant, then the character can’t use their persona thats pretty smart
I feel to balance the game though, I feel like all of their attacks should do half damage
The third semester
Wasn't Golden it was Royal.
Anyone else wanted to see sataneal show up against Adam kadom?
Ya it is kind of a shame he didn’t show up but I guess we couldn’t do that again. But hey Joker capping Maruki in the face and then beating each other up in a fist fight was a good substitute.
@@VincentEternal yeah the slug fight was pretty epic. I was also hoping for maybe a Surime x joker fusion or joker x pancake boi. But that’s just my fantasy going wild
I was spoiled that there was another evolution to Arsene, so I was hoping to see Raoul show up against Adam Kadmon. Was disappointed that he was just a dlc persona 😪
@@philmatibaggg9283 yeah that was a crazy move by atlas but they know people will buy him🤦🏽♂️ gotta get more money out of us somehow
@@dreio-sama5046 i wonder if they just couldn’t figure out how to incorporate the protag’s third awakening so they were just like “uhhh shit idk” and made him dlc. not saying that’s any better, just my idea.
Totally unrelated to this video, but I could've swore i watched a video of you talking about the Persona Iceberg and i was wondering if that was an actual thing or not lol. And if not you should discuss it, it's very interesting
"Kazumi"
2 and a half hours of pure content goodness
The best way I can describe the “theme of rebellion” that p5 and p5r have is with a poker against the final boss analogy. In p5, Joker and the crew are dealt a hand and they just try to play it as best as they can. Sure, Joker has the wild card, but that’s the only “extra power” at the end (and having multiple personas doesn’t feel overpowered). Against The Y Man (because I cannot spell that name for the life of me), it feels like they’re waiting for a hand to be dealt with decent odds. Then, they double down and happen to have the better hand. In p5r, it feels like Maruki can whip out a sharpie and alter his cards without the dealer noticing. It kinda feels like you gotta find the moment to “catch him in the act”, so to speak.
I hope that makes some sense!
I always get super confused when it’s gets pointed out that the game’s producers have said on record that the theme is “rebellion”. Even before p5r was announced, I was like, “But who’re we actually rebelling against tho?? Pop culture? But even Joker’s not an outcast! So... Gods? Fate?“ It felt so unclear. Mainly due to the fact that somehow a Japanese teen with a damaged record was able to get multiple legitimate jobs in Tokyo. Real Japanese society is far more unforgiving than what the game portrayed.
p5r doesn’t give a definitive answer either. Maybe what was translated as “rebellion” has far more meaning than the english word? I’ve never seen an untranslated version of the interview, so I don’t know what could have happened. Perhaps the theme could be “attrition”. Or, maybe “the strength of human wit”.
It’s rebellion against the more outdated social structure that created the villains they encountered. It’s harder for us to get because of the very reasons we do not understand a high school coach being protected so unilaterally, or a court system who railroads cases and is heavily biased in favor of the district attorney presenting charges.
I think it would have been difficult to do a Maruki style palace with Kamoshida. Because well... it would be kinda uncomfortable to get into the mentality of a sexual abuser and see them justifying their own actions. Every other villain is fair game though. Tbh I'm willing to bet that might be why they didn't do it, if it was hard to incorporate into the original palace
I think it would have been pretty easy. Coming from a person who has dealt with someone like Kamoshida.
A thing I think adds on to the whole "Maruki gives you time to consider things" is even in the Azathot fight and the way it's kinda structed. It's just the long chain of baton passes and knocking out the arms to actually hit the persona as he talks to each PT. He really wants this for everyone and he wants you to see it his way.
Edit: I commented this before I got to you guys talking about the fight
Akechi voice actor was amazing !!!
I absolutely loved the third semester! Maruki's palace was truly unlike anything else the game had to offer. I will say, though, that I was pretty confused by the psychiatric evaluation segment, though. I got that I was supposed to answer from Maruki's perspective, but I genuinely do not agree with the "correct" choice for the first question. Yes, the choice Maruki made was to go get help rather than risk hurting himself trying to protect Rumi. But that wasn't what he thought was *right* the way I understood it. He seemed to be absolutely filled with regret for his decision there. He looked down on himself and, if I recall correctly, he even called himself pathetic over his choice. That tells me that Maruki thought the correct response would have been to jump to Rumi's aid and that he simply failed to make the correct decision. But I suppose that's a bit of a nitpick.
I do want to talk a bit about Sumire, though. While I really love her character and how it relates to the philosophical dilemma of the third semester, I really think her story could've been handled better. The way it is here, her wish to be Kasumi comes off as completely unnatural. Wouldn't her wish to be that her sister never died? Or that she had died instead of Kasumi? Or that the accident never happened? Why would she wish to *be* Kasumi? Beyond that, I was a bit disappointed overall by how empty this twist kinda turned out to be. I was really hyped up for some crazy twist but at the end of the day it really just boiled down to "Her name isn't Kasumi."
Why do I say that? Because everything else about her gave me extreme dejavu. It's nearly identical to a certain other party member who lost a family member in a traffic accident and was traumatized ever since, believing she was the cause for her loved one's death clouding her judgment and forcing her to resent herself and wish she never existed and that her loved one was alive in her place without her existence to bog her down, all the way until the phantom thieves come along and open her eyes to the truth and help her realize that she is her own person and that she'd been living a lie she'd been told as far back as she was previously willing to remember.
Yeah, Sumire's story felt almost copy and pasted from Futaba's. That realization kinda upset me, because Futaba and Sumire already had a lot of similarities with their young age and mannerisms with Ren/Akira in daily life. Yoshizawa already kinda came off as "less nerdy Futaba." That was okay because I already adored Futaba and naturally adored this new girl, too. But by this point, I think I started to realize just how safe they played it with Sumire's writing and how much of a shame that was. I guess it makes sense that they wanted to play it safe and make sure she was likable because her being unliked would probably lead to people preferring Persona 5 over Persona 5 Royal, but I still really wish they took a greater risk for her in order to make the Kasumi twist feel more deserved. The way it is now, there should be a pretty easy cop-out to help Sumire feel better: It literally wasn't her fault. Yes, she wasn't watching where she was going and caused the accident, but Kasumi made the decision to jump into the street to save her which shows that Kasumi cared more about Sumire than herself or her own dreams and future. That just the fact that Sumire got out alive meant that she was already living Kasumi's dream. It's cliche, sure, but the whole scenario is already pretty cliche, isn't it?
I kind of have a theory that the original intent with Sumire wasn't for her to wish to be Kasumi after Kasumi's death. No matter how I think about it, that wish doesn't feel natural, and Maruki should've known how much damage granting a wish like that would do to Kasumi's mental health. Instead, I think the original intent was that Sumire was suicidal or something along those lines because of her failure to compare to Kasumi, and that she wished to be her sister so that she would be able to see herself as anything but a failure. Perhaps from here, Maruki would've judged that Sumire truly only would've been happy if she were in Kasumi's shoes. So, using his actualization power, he made Sumire's wish reality which consequently "erased" the real Kasumi from reality. A consequence he justified by reasoning that, if reality continued in any other way, Sumire would've ended her own life which only would've brought immense suffering to Kasumi and the rest of Sumire's family.
Such a plan probably would've been cut because it paints Maruki to be a murderer, which runs contradictory to what they wanted his character to represent. So, in order to justify the twist they'd settled on for Sumire, they decided to have Kasumi die in an accident and Sumire wish to be her sister to help realize Kasumi's dreams. That's the only explanation I can think of for such a strange line for her to suddenly speak out of nowhere.
Again, I really don't think I'm missing anything about Sumire's character. It's not necessarily the fact that she makes this wish out of clouded judgment. I don't expect her in fresh trauma to think things out so rationally, but I certainly expect Maruki, a trained psychiatrist, to recognize a better, more healthy way to realize this wish. He could've changed her cognition so that Kasumi was alive again. He could've made her a better athlete. Instead, he just went along with her strange wish to be her sister which only comes off as creepy to me. I love Maruki as a character, but this moment really just doesn't sit well at all with me and really hurts both Sumire and Maruki's characters.
(And yes, I get that Sumire says at the end of the game that she's still thankful for the opportunity Maruki gave her, that still doesn't make her wish okay...)
I don't want to make this comment seem like I didn't enjoy P5R, though! That was just one major problem I had with it that I felt the need to go in-depth with! Overall, the questions P5R asks are incredibly difficult to answer and throughout that entire final boss fight to the end of the game, I was teary-eyed the entire way!
3rd semester is too short imo. Especially since we unlock basically two new characters who are arguably some of the most fun to play with. If they didn't want Kasumi to be usable before third semester at least throw us a bone and let us use her earlier on NG+.
Agreed, specially since many enemies have physical resistance so she doesn't get to shine as much. I even fought battles I could skip to get some more mileage.
I also didn't like the 3rd evolution talks, they were too samey and didn't contribute to their character.
I mean, I agree... but I feel like that would run the risk of it feeling like filler? Making it longer I mean.
having party members join at the end of the game is such a stupid idea e.e
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz Can't argue with that, but they were kind of written into a corner with Akechi considering he... kind of dies, and also certain fans would have thrown a fucking fit if Sumire joined the team any earlier than she did because "she was shoved in our faces"
She has a 15$ outfit DLC
For one palace. ONE. PALACE.
In a weird way, I called a few things about the 3rd Semester in a Persona 5 crossover story I'm writing.
That being Subconscious Personas, their effect on reality, and them fully Awakening during the fight with Yaldy, along with having a Palace and Persona at the same time. I freaked out when they revealed those facets of Maruki.
these are the videos that got me here in the first place
I do genuinely hope that Maruki or other people from the Persona franchise get added as DLC for the P5S English release. I would live to see Maruki just shred through hordes of dudes with Azathoth.
I mean, me too, but I don't think that would be in character for him. Akechi, on the other hand...
@@eclecticspaghetti Fair enough. I just figured they might put him on the side of the phantom thieves + give him some reason to help out because of how he lost to them in Royal or something. Idk
Maybe he can be a side character that upgrades stuff for you or give equipments
@@yep1486 Hm. I doubt it. That's a change that might be a bit too big to add in as DLC.
Also apparently, there were deleted scenes showing Kamoshida and Madarame's pasts like with Maruki, and they were gonna happen when you get the Will Seeds. Kamoshida's isn't much but Madarame's flashback shows Yusuke's mom dying and I feel like that'd be great for story shit. Like making Yusuke want to kill Madarame more and go off the deep end with the morality of rebellion and shit.
Right but... the reveal about Yusuke’s mom happens later in the boss fight anyways? How would this work if you didn’t get all the will seeds, or even if you just got, say, the first and third ones? Also I think you’re misunderstanding Yusuke quite a bit if you think he would want to kill Madarame, it’s pretty clear to me that Yusuke can’t bring himself to hate him despite everything.
I feel like Haru and Futaba should’ve been more hesitant on doing this.
That first mystery palace we didn’t know who that was in the middle of the game was a nice touch.
Marukis power got me thinking...if Haru’s father came back to life then if people did want to wouldn’t Makoto/Minato also come back to life and in turn wouldn’t it fuck up the whole seal for Nyx
No, because in this world, people wouldn‘t wish for death anymore, so Erebus would finally disappear. Nyx would not longer be an issue.
I think the cognitive rewrite only affected central Tokyo, not anywhere else
@@fojisan2398 how would reality warping only affect central tokyo
you need to talk about the scenes that were cut
the only 2 I think matter are 1. The perfect harem ending (including Sae) where Joker gets all the girls and doesn't get beat up. and 2. a scene where all the adult confidants just hang out at crossroads, because it is fun to imagine all the adults being friends (especially Sae who probably had to give up friends for the sake of her career).
I played through p5 and then immediately p5r came out so I played it 2 more times, that took away a lot of time
It's funny because the first time I heard that the new party member was named Kasumi, It reminded me of another character with the same name from a Danganronpa fan game who was the Ultimate Spirit Medium. I remember thinking something like, "Oh, she probably has something to do with death then" to thinking, "Nah, I'm just overthinking this, Its just a name". And I found out she was actually dead (Not Sumire, but the actual Kasumi).
The final fight i was like goddamn they forgave adachi there's no way in hell that they are gonna let maruki die
Akechi* and he wasn't forgiven
Best 9 Seconds so far.
The Final Puzzle of Maruki's Palace literally had
Colors Flying High
I thoroughly enjoyed the third semester like everyone else however, after I had played the game I felt like it would have been way more impactful if it would only had been sumire, akechi and the player it would give way more impact and questions ur morality. Because if the rest of the phantom thieves never woke up then it makes u think
"Is it okay to rob all your friends of this dream?"
Also it would keep the uncertain mood at the beginning of the third semester.
As much as I love maruki and think overall compared to everyone else we target in the persona 5 franchise as a whole (including any and all spin offs), I still won't forget the beginning dream sequence and one of the bad endings where he keeps joker asleep in bed permanently, both instances of him doing that to joker is just too dark for me, like if he's gonna be imprisoned and lavenza's influence is locked out, have him be awake and alive with friends like in some of the other bad endings.
It's dark but in Maruki's mind what can you do with a person who doesn't dream or wish for anything? It could highlight that there is a bit of control Maruki wants even in his selfishness.
I remember laughing my ass off at the Sumire fight, cause i had Metatron, and as we know, he repels Bless attacks, but i also had Null Phys, so i was just attacking her normally and winning, and when she later apologized for "trying" to kill me i laughed even harder
Love all the content. Will have to grind harder in the game to catch up and watch this video eventually.
Maruki and Futaba as your Tentical Persona Navagators.
when fither mentions in part one that he was spoiled about maruki I laughed hysterically because he was the one who spoiled me when he released the "my perfect character video" which was first called my perfect villain or something like that, I was on my phone when the notification showed up
Scramble/strikers is a sequel to vanilla p5
*stares at PKFT1 float up and down on the screen*
I loved everything they did with Maruki and he's now one of my favorite Persona 5 characters and while I'm still not the biggest Akechi fan, I really liked what they with him in the 3rd semester (and also I love how Robbie Daymond portrayed him). Unfortunately I cannot say the same for Kasumi. At first I kinda liked her because I thought she was cute and I was wondering how she'd play into the story, but she's just really overshadowed by Maruki and Goro and it doesn't help that her goodbye is super rushed. I get why people really like her, but overall I couldn't bring myself to care about her. It's honestly my only real issue with the 3rd semester, other than that, I enjoyed the hell out of it.
i think the cendrillon boss fight alone justified yoshizawa’s presence for me, that shit was awesome.
@@eclecticspaghetti yeah. I think it's just a personal preference thing.
That's actually part of why I liked her as a character, well, minus the not caring for her bit. I admit, she wasn't my favorite or anything, but I thought they did a solid job of including her in the story and making her fleshed out, without making her this giant plot device that clashes with the vanilla game. She really came off as just another confidant/party member. I think it would have felt weirder if the third semester was so focused on her and didn't have the Maruki and Akechi elements to balance it out.
It is kinda weird you get so little time with her as a party member, but I don't know how they could have added more party time without ruining the pacing. I also think there's that end game Persona issue, where your MC is so powerful that all your party members are significantly overshadowed gameplay wise.
Remember when the broad advertused her body on the yacht accurate representation of a models career
Added to wishlist: Maruki in a Arena game
Fither: You wanna see some real ads ?
God damn the amount of ads in this video hurts me emotionally
I’ll get back to watching this after the first video and see you takes
All hail Maruki the Messi-wait, the fuck am I saying...
Best part of the game imo, but still feel like we got baited. Not only was it not a full semester, it wasn't even a trimester. Hell, IIRC you aren't even given a full month of free time. They built it up to be bigger than it really was while advertising the game.
To be fair, semesters in Japan are shorter than those in western schools, and also i'm 90% sure that they never specified how long the new content was going to be, i'm pretty sure the term "third semester" was completely coined by fans. if i had to choose between more content with less overall quality or less content with a tighter focus, i would choose the latter.
I mean, if they made it longer we'd just get more free time we don't REALLY need.
and the whole thing's pace would be slower.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz I think what they're trying to say is that there should have been another palace, but I think that would have basically done the same thing you're talking about. The most obvious candidate for another palace would be Sumire, but I feel like they'd be hard pressed to actually find interesting stuff to put in that.
@@eclecticspaghetti IMO they should have just made the base palaces better and added more nuance to the base villains.
They kinda did it but the difference from base to royal writing and dungeon design is just ridiculous.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz You're not wrong there, though I do think what they *did* change about the original game's palaces makes a lot of difference, like... Madarame's Palace is actually *fun* now, and all the boss fights are *miles* better. I do think that if they made all the base game villains more complex/sympathetic it might take away from how cool and fresh Maruki is, though. Just something to consider.
Who is this 'Kazumi'? I only know of KA-SUU-MII.
My only problems with the game is sumire, she never felt like a member of the thieves, she felt like an outsider, I'm playing strikers about 3/4 done and the new guy they added (gramps) feels more like a member than sumire by a huge mile, so far I haven't missed her one bit, even Sophie feels like what sumire should have been.
Also why can't akechi use both Loki, robin hood and his 3rd persona, it doesn't make sense to me, it's clear he's a wild card user just felt like a missed opportunity.
sumire was never a phantom thief, though. she never wanted to be one and that's why she never joined them. the reason she joins your party in the third semester is basically the same reason akechi does- to stop maruki. akechi doesn't use loki and robin hood because he doesn't feel like acting like the "good guy" anymore. he can finally be himself and he's ecstatic about it. robin hood is basically akechi's "mask" that he puts on in the real world, while loki is his true self. since joker and everybody else already knows how he is and there's no point in hiding behind a mask anymore, he only uses loki.
also it's not really clear that akechi's a wild card user. i think it's moreso implied that akechi has two personas because he literally has two personas himself. the good guy detective and the crazy psycho
@@alatsus While it is true that she didn’t want to be a Phantom Thief at one point, that doesn’t mean she wasn’t one. I understand the comparison between her and Akechi but I feel like that’s definitely a different situation seeing as both sides were plotting against eachother as enemies and it was all simply a ruse. Sumire is much closer to Zenkichi or Sophia in concept and although they aren’t with the team very long, they’re definitely still considered Phantom Thieves. If your argument is that Sumire doesn’t agree with their methods and even stated that she didn’t want to join them then just look back at Zenkichi seeing as he did the exact same thing but still became a member of the team.
Is flair gonna be in more videos any time soon?
What if u play as all the smt three heroes in smt 5
There is a cut out cutscene where it is revealed akechi is in rehab after normal p5 but in royal he is healed and takes fall for protagonist type in removed akechi scene p5 royal
Tae Takemi is the one i spent the event with
It’s kinda funny but also unsettling to me that Morgana as a human sounds like his cat version. In the Japanese dub at least. Never tried English so I dunno bout that.
what's the first background song in the beginning of the video? I'm not familiar with much music pre-P4 but that one slaps.
That’s actually from Persona 5! It’s called Prison Labor, it plays during the (mostly) DLC Challenge Battles in the Velvet Room.
@@eclecticspaghetti thanks, it didn’t sound familiar at all. shows how much i played the challenge battles lol
What is that battle theme in the beginning called I can't get it out of my head.
Holy ads lol.
now the great question
Is the curry still hot?
Man, so many ads on this! If I didn’t really enjoy the Third Semester I would quit listening..
Skip to the end and restart the video for no ads
I feel like I am on a completely different spectrum than some people on Persona 5 Royal's final semester. Because I first, I think Persona 5 is totally complete anyway. But the third semester arc is so thematically different from vanilla Persona 5, that part of me feels like it would have made more sense to let that Maruki Arc standalone as its own sequel to P5, instead of an expansion to it. But that would have been pretty hard to do because the story would still require all the Phantom Thieves to still be in school together, and Persona 5 Strikers is already doing the summer vacation thing.
Nah I have the same mindset, I kinda wish that Maruki/Sumire were saved for something completely new because playing through the 100 hour game to get to like 10 hours of content was kind of meh, but I do think that Maruki wasn't very intrusive which is good, however, Sumire was super forced upon the player as the new shiny thing.
the third semester didn’t strike me as thematically different, just a different examination of the same themes of rebellion and security. the phantom thieves really are rebelling against something that, this time, everyone actually *wants* and seems to be a good thing. that’s why it’s so compelling to me, there was always kind of the argument of “are the phantom thieves just?” but everyone they fought in the original game was pretty much objectively bad, so that discussion always kind of falls flat. the maruki arc shatters that, and recontextualizes the phantom thieves entirely
i also just think stretching out the maruki arc into a full game would make it way too padded.
@@eclecticspaghetti You play this entire game where like the bad guys are all authority figures abusing positions of power, and then you fight the metaphysical embodiment of the public's complacency with people who abuse power ... then you Maruki. It is a good story arc. But it just has nothing to do with Persona 5, because now instead of fighting the powers that be ... I am contending with this unrelated philosophical question about free will and whether life has meaning without pain. Maruki is presenting us with a hypothetical, while the bad guys you fight for most of Persona 5 represent the kinds of bad people who can find in reality. It feels like in transforms the story into something so different, it could have been a sequel. You could have made a shorter direct sequel to P5 that only dealt specifically with these new themes.
@@TheJadedJames these are good points you’re making, but... did you even read my reply? “rebellion” doesn’t always mean fighting the obviously evil bad guys, there are different ways to explore this idea.
@@Cheesepuff44 Even before the third semester, Maruki grooves into the existing store perfectly. Kasumi/Sumire NEEDS the Maruki Arc for her character to feel like there is a point to her at all. They really did a bad job of integrating her into early scenes, so every time she shows up, it feels forced. I think a better job could have been done with early Kasumi/Sumire stuff. In the game's opening, I figured she was going to show up as some kind of mysteries "Tuxedo Mask" character who would pop every so often to bust you out of jams ... but which could have been cooler than what we got
1:05:45 ???
I've played through P5 Scramble 4 times and I can garuntee you that neither Sumi or Maruki are mentioned once. They don't even reference events from P5 (other than 2 confidants, and an Okumura acquantaince).
It is 100% a sequel to P5, since Scramble and P5R were being made around the same time. Of course, Scramble doesn't contradict any events that occur in P5R (asuming that Sumi is doing her dance practice [like in Hawaii] and Akechi isn't a part of the group).
If I'm wrong, link me to the actual sauce
i don’t have sauce because i don’t speak japanese so i wouldn’t be able to tell even if i had a screenshot but i’ve heard that at the end of the game morgana mentions that this situation reminds him of a similar time “around half a year ago.” considering the final dungeon is based off of Eden, just like maruki’s palace, and “half a year” is lowballing the time since yaldabaoth by quite a bit, it’s not unreasonable to think that this could be referring to maruki.
of course, i can’t prove this to you so it might as well mean nothing at all, that’s just what i’ve heard.
@@eclecticspaghetti ua-cam.com/video/yXeVWQlSzdI/v-deo.html
This is an english Sub made by Juicedup14, part 37 15:00
Morgana does say "about half a year ago" and says that "reality is eroding, referring to when Yaldaboath merged the Metaverse with the real world and cause a bunch of "things" and bones to emerge from the ground. To say that this refers to Maruki's reality would be a stretch, because it is nevet mentioned or implied that Maruki's reality destroyed the true reality (other than the bad ending where Joker sleeps forever).
Lastly, and most importantly, Ann's statement at 15:15 where she responds to Zenkichi not knowing what happened and says "I guess not everyone remembered what happened." This refers to the ending of P5 where only your maxed confidants see the world eroding while others never noticed. Pretty soon, people start disappearing and hear the mention of the Phantom Thieves, so everyone sees what is going on and is horrified. After the events, the Phantom Thieves remember what happened, but it's not shown whether or not your confidants or everyone else remembers.
I think that with Mementos (the collectibe unconscious) being destroyed, the memories of an event borne from Mementos will also disappear.
what happened to fair :(
Everything is back to normal and everyone is dead shiho is still in the hospital but joker gets to keep his gay detective boyfriend
I still prefer the original ending. P5R’s ending is really good but to me the original is the definitive persona 5 ending while royal’s feels more like a sequel. Maybe it’s just because I’m more emotionally connected to persona 5 but seeing the phantom thieves driving off together and the credits and music at the end just hit so much harder than royal’s.
Noice
Is P5r better than p4g?
Give me your opinions in the reply section.
I preferred P4G, there was sooo much content there. Then again, I preferred P4's pacing so I skipped less content when replaying.
absolutely, almost everything p4g adds is either literal filler (like the beach trip) or doesn't really have an impact on the story (like marie's dungeon)
@@alanhegewisch4486 Well p5r is a much bigger game, but I understand where you're coming from
@@alanhegewisch4486 Ccurrently on my 4th p5r playthrough
@@eclecticspaghetti no.. P4G is better as naoto is actually usable... also your pfp says to me your kinda bias :P and P4 has good writing
deleted scenes discussed/listed here: www.thegamer.com/persona-5-royal-all-deleted-scenes/
Nvm im stupid
yeah base p5 was kinda... underwhelming in it's theme.
royal brought back the good stuff persona lost after p3. p4 was okay but adachi/izanami are too evil to have an interesting conversation with. maruki is what we wanted strega to be.
now about that P3 remake...
god yeah strega is kind of just a joke, in every scene that they're in. really one of the only areas that p3 stumbles *hard* with, in my opinion.
@@eclecticspaghetti I am the most biased person in the planet but I think strega just got haru'd.
If they added things from the strega light novel and the movie (especially their power level) they'd be a lot better.
Like in the movie they're stuck waiting for chidori to stop cutting before going out to do stuff and you see a little of takaya's cult leader side. Things like that add so much to their character it's insane.
@@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz I guess, but I don't think I could ever take them seriously even with that. Chidori I can at least sympathize with, but Takaya and Jin are just... dumb. Instead of them basically doing the exact same thing Ikutsuki is doing (worshipping Nyx), I think it would be a lot better if they represented a side of the theme of death that we... don't really get to see in this game, that being trying to cheat death and escape it by any means necessary, I think that would make for much stronger conflicts between them and SEES, who by the end of the game have accepted that death comes for everyone eventually.
Those are just my thoughts though, obviously. And I also haven't read the light novel or seen the movies (though I really REALLY want to)
I think Adachi has plenty to talk about, especially with the extra development he gets in Arena Ultimax
@@Cheesepuff44 adachi has things to talk about but he's too much of an asshole to properly discuss, unlike maruki.
Really liked the semester, despised Sumire with all my being
love Sumire with all my being
If only people acted like this with makoto
The moment she did a ballerina jump 2 meters straight up into the air to rescue a child's stray balloon only to land graciously and give it back (because she's just that good hearted, guys), I knew she was going to be the annoying new character that was going to be unnecessarily shoehorned into every scene so she can become the semi-canonical waifu of this game
in the third semester, it was revealed that she was trying to become her sister and did what she thought her sister would do, so i wouldn't really say she's like that
@@audacioustomato9446 in theory she's a cool character. Sumire's intense grief for her sister's loss manifesting in the want to emulate her and her mannerisms only for it to be exploited by Maruki.
But ingame it seems so incredibly tacked on, she's added (unnecessarily in my opinion) into alot of cutscenes for the mere sake of making her known before the third semester, but for some reason she just seems to be the sudden focus of whatever scene she's in
"Kazumi"