The Hidden Unchristian Belief of TOP Progressive Christian Influencers
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- I spent over a week reading and listening to progressive Christian influencers, trying to find some sort of central belief that connects them all together in a way that makes sense. I think I finally understand it. It's actually pretty simple. And it's not about Jesus.
The teaching you are watching was given at the Battle for the Next Generation Conference in Palm Springs, put on by DesertApologetics.com in February of 2022, sponsored by World Gospel Mission. Check their website for info on other events they do.
My website BibleThinker.org
Grateful for the examples you show starting at 39:00. Wow. So troubling and it ultimately leads to so much destruction (both now and forever).
Thank you for this. Sending to a lot of my friends.
The 2 best pastors out there!
Troubling and destruction? Statistics show that religious countries are more violent than atheistic countries. Why would you support violence?
@@professorneturman2249 and that proves....? You can't say because a country happens to be religious and has high amounts of violence, that its because it's religious lol. Take Colombia for example, are the guerrillas fighting for religious reasons? No lol. And even if your point was better, can we say religion is wrong because religious countries have higher violence? No again. Because then I can say that atheism is wrong because of the very kind atheists (hitler, Mao, pol pot, stalin) of the 20th century who killed more people than anyone else in history and it isn't even close. And the interesting thing is, they DID kill people and act that way because of their atheism (they said so themselves).
Specifically the alleged anti Calvin's site Beyond The Fundementals is a front proxy of progressive Christianity questioning everything and specifically denying the substitutions atonement as being Salvation while attacking Calvinism (which is a human construct of non Bible thought) because it is dogmatically authoritative and not relativistically based on human sensory experiences. They question everything but provide no certainty of Authority Truth, and they refuse to hold to any statements of doctrines or truth. Anyone who believes in a system of doctrines and truth statements is "ideologically possessed" according them, except of course for themselves!
@@snowyowl5556 Well that was ignorant. Also Christianity killed millions in the name of God, yes or no?
First deception the serpent used against Adam and Eve was the "Did God really say that?" literally the oldest and most deceptive trick of Satan is making us doubt the Lord and elevating our own desires to make us think we can be like God. It is his original sin and here it is repeated again and again through human history. "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall"Proverbs 16:18
The "LAW" proves that we are fallen.. Because it is an 'accelerator for sin" Every parent with a toddler knows that the word NO!! ,means "Here the battle comes"
Very true.
Progressives misconstrue rejection as hate. Not all rejection is hate and not all acceptance is love.
This is a great take.
It's because this is mostly a "self" centered religion. Humility has no place among them. They're ALL flesh.
I've been reading about existentialism recently, recently read this from _the universe next door_ : "When affirmation ceases so does Authentic existence." This statement really sums alot of modern progressive thought
It's tolerance perhaps
@@doznoff362 Oh no, that's not enough today. U must affirm ppl & their behavior-say/show (feign🙄) a genuine "respect" & even "love". U must encourage their behavior regardless of your feelings; you're the prob, YOU must change. U will either ASSimilate OR u WILL face the SM mob of sheeple (SJW) & be labeled every "-ist" or "-ic" in ever....they'll dox u AND your fam & friends on SM, post your pics & announce your sin. They'll call your phones, jobs, speak to your boss & even stop by for a friendly "protest", demanding you're fired. They'll harass u all until u wanna be ghosts.
But. This too shall pass. We must remember this. Our Father in heaven sees these things & ❤️'s us. He will never leave nor forsake us, saints.
"I don't know if Jesus smiled at everybody that He met, but I know that He died for everybody who sinned." -Mike Winger, Bible Thinker
Hallelujah !
Jesus is the King of Glory!!!
Exactly he doesn’t show validation or approval for everyone but he still loves them.
But I have not sinned; has Jesus died for me? Maybe not.
@@josephpaul4548 You just sinned by making that statement. You are calling God/Jesus a liar because he has said that we are all sinners. All have sinned.
We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.
The Bible says that the heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Your feelings can not be a reliable guide to know what is right or wrong. That’s why we need the Bible!
Right? That guy around the 48 minute mark is doing mental gymnastics and reversing scripture in order to come to his belief. He mentions that "we are taught to look deep within and we will see evil and darkness, but in genesis 1 it says that we bare the divine image." Obviously I am not directly quoting him. However he is saying that Genesis 1 is who we are now/still. What? Why is he ignoring that Genesis 1 describes man before the fall and the other half is scripture about how we are now and is WHY we need Christ? He is literally reversing the entire basis of Christianity in order to reach his conclusion.
Sadly many will follow him down his path.
@@just_me2797 Whenever you see this kind of total inversion of truth, you know that it only comes from one mouth. They don't call him the father of lies for nothing.
But Catholics and Orthodox don’t believe in just the Bible. You cannot reason with them. I know! I’m living with one.
Also Richard Rohr, a Franciscan Priest, has a 12 Step book called Breathing Under Water. I see as dangerous because he seems to be critical of Protestants and puts blame on the betrayal victim for behavior of the addict.
Progressive Christianity is not about Jesus it's about their own belief, thinking, feelings, their own lifestyle.. For a true believer stick to seeking Jesus sincerely in the Holy Bible.
Progressivism is inherently anti-God
Or they researched some stuff
@@phillipcummings3518 Conservatism/right wing Christianity is also deeply anti-God.
@@aaronmonroe7932 who researched what stuff? Your comment is very vague. But you seem to be saying that progressive Christians know the "truth" because they "researched some stuff." I hope that is not what you are saying and that is why I am asking for clarity on your comment. If, sadly, you are saying what I mentioned, then you ought to go listen (actually, truly listen and try to understand) this video again.
Isaiah 43 10 through 11 God is your only Savior and there is no other
My pastor told me about you. This is SO refreshing. I AM a former gay identified man, came out of homosexual in 1999. In my journey in pursuing Jesus AND biblical truth surrounding how I’ve been created. I’ve been set free from homosexuality, literally. About 2 yrs ago, I was clued in on a podcast ( done by a gay man) in which Jen Hatmaker was interviewed. He quoted her as saying she uncentered herself from scripture…. And Therein we see WHY Jen now espouses a completely different gospel. I’m in ministry and my calling is to declare what Jesus has done AND whatever I can do to help rescue others from the fire ( Jude 1:23) Jesus sets that captives FREE!!!
Amazing testimony!!!
Congratulations brother you are a walking talking testimony 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I Am ex pansexual thanks for your honesty :)
That’s an awesome testimony
God bless you Jim
“He who begins by seeking God within himself may end by confusing himself with God.”
- B.B. Warfield
I like that!
Oh wow, that's so apt.
Awesome quote, thanks for sharing!
They say Peter was friends with Paul. But throughout the whole book of Acts it relates that Peter never said so much as one word to Paul. NOT ONE WORD!
Like you all confusing Jesus with God when Jesus outright denied he was God numerous times.
My father believes this way, except it only apples to him. I was depressed and suicidal since I was 15 years old. I’m 24 now and got saved this past march. The most comforting thing I have ever been told is that my feelings don’t matter. I take that to mean if they are not in reaction to a reality I can ignore them. If they point me towards something bad I can ignore them. I still trip into that old way if I’m not careful because it is how I was raised. A mix of prosperity gospel and apostolic self worship. Self obsession is the root of depression and anxiety. You can become so entrenched in it that you can never escape, trapped by your own self pity. I’m so glad God has forgiven me for my multiple attempts. Because if justice was done to me, I would be dead and in hell. But it was done for me on the cross. I’ll tell everyone he died for us, and rose again. He defeated death so we can be saved. All to make the wretched his treasures not from anything we are, but because we know we have nothing we can ask God to fill our empty cup. God loves an empty cup. If you feel empty and unfulfilled it’s because life is not meant to be lived for ourselves. It’s for God. So whether you are a dishwasher in a kitchen or a missionary He loves you. All He asks is that you give it your all. He will take care of the rest.
@storyaboutmosquitoes9 Beautiful testimony beautifully expressed! Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your testimony! Please continue to share with others especially young people. Maybe God brought you through all of that for just such an occasion. May God continue to strengthen you as you share the Gospel!
So good ❤
Thank you, 😊, your comment ment alot to me.
Thank you. :)
As a former Lutheran pastor, Catholic chaplain, Phd.Theology and now retired old guy, this is the best talk I have ever heard on the false doctrines leading progressive Christianity, of all denominations, into oblivion. Living in China and sharing an African student Bible Study awakened me to how very weird, degenerate and narcissistic North American mainstream Christianity actually is and helped me see why the Faith is so powerful in Africa and is growing in the East. The real deal is the one that is rejected and persecuted by the modern state.
I need to hear more about your story!! Were you first a Catholic and then a Lutheran pastor? I didn’t get that part
The faith in Africa is very strong, they know God
Amen brother.
I would also like to hear your story. I mean, I am the guy who increased your like count on your comment to 123 😅🤣😂🤣👍...
there is also bad theology and American christian problems that have been reproducing in Africa......just like here and everywhere the true and false exist together
"they are way more unified on LGBT issues than on Jesus" WOW. Thats all that needs to be said.
No need to point out LGBT. Whoever looks at a woman with lust is as guilty as having sex with her outside of your marriage or just plain old fornication. That pretty well makes all of us guilty as sin.
@@robertbrown6879 I don't think that's what he meant.
@@robertbrown6879 so we shouldn't call out homosexual behavior because people also lust for the opposite sex?
@@twiggledy5547 right! I wanna know too.
@@robertbrown6879 that doesn’t mean we call it out brother.
Reminds me (of progressive Christianity) of Judges 21:25b that says, "...and every man does what is right in his OWN EYES."
"There was no King in Israel..."
Yep, that’s where we are. Thank God for the story of Ruth, in the time of the judges, a tiny microcosm of faith and love in the midst of madness and idolatry…a tiny light of hope in the line of the Savior of the world.
I remember many years ago, when I was living with my boyfriend, things were not going well. I was raised in church, but every time I prayed, God was responding with "Move out". I finally listened, we both became Christians, and we got married. I have gone astray many times since then, but I always knew what I was doing wrong. I am an old lady now and am so grateful to God for what He has brought me through.
But do you need to judge other Christians who have different experiences? I was also raised in church, but took the rules very seriously from a young age. I was deeply committed to the moral ideal of keeping myself pure and chaste until marriage, for 30 years. In fact, I'm still a virgin, because after puberty my whole life fell apart, and God's heavy hand of rebuke fell upon me. Every time I prayed, God would respond with "stop lying to yourself: stop judging and envying others, shunning them as unclean 'sinners', when you secretly envy their freedom of conscience to live openly in prophetic faith, much as I've called you to do also." I finally listened, began to question Conservative Evangelical dogma, got diagnosed with autism and gender dysphoria, and am now much more at peace with God about my inability to live up to the Law.
@@ChristianCatboy I'm very sorry to hear about your pain. It isn't trivial, and we Christians need to hear stories like yours and minister to you as well as we can.
The problem is, though, that Christianity has never been about subjectivism. Not historically, not Biblically. Jesus, the incarnate Word, made us in a particular way, to live according to the way He commands us to live, and that is the only possible way to ever find fulfilment, to have true peace. Scripture tells us of the wickedness of the human heart, how our passions are apt to lead us astray, how those in rebellion to God are given over to depraved thinking, etc., etc. Christians are never, ever commanded in Scripture to gratify our lusts, we're told the exact opposite, in fact. Christ commands us to deny ourselves, to pick up our cross, and to follow Him. Are we to follow our Saviour, or are we to demand that He must follow us?
The Holy Ghost delivered God's very words to the prophets, Apostles and other human writers of Scripture. God has chosen to speak to mankind in man's own language - to the point that He entered into His own creation by taking on human flesh and became the only perfectly sinless, righteous, innocent man to have ever lived. He would not contradict Himself by telling us one thing in the Holy Bible, and another by way of personal revelation. If you feel a strong feeling to defy the written Word, or if a voice in your mind tells you to disobey clear Biblical teaching, then you are being deceived. You are in great peril.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 I believe the Bible. This isn't a matter of personal, subjective revelation. Jesus said it is permissible for a man to become eunuch. Do you accept this clear teaching of the Lord's? I literally castrated myself, to obey that teaching, and also this one: "If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than into hell with two hands." I am not claiming to have the right to live as a μαλακός, αρσενοκοίτης, πόρνη, or μοιχός, because of course those are indeed sinful behaviors that HARM others - but I'm not using a legalistic interpretation of those terms. Matt 19:12 does NOT say anything about celibacy or virginity btw. It says that God has elected some people to be "eunuchs", some by birth, some by human compulsion, and some by personal choice. Hear the word of the Lord, and remove the log from your own eye, before sneering "raka" and "you fool!" at your own brethren.
@@ChristianCatboy Lots of issues to sort out here, but I'll try my best to address them. Does Jesus mean to say that those who make themselves eunuchs do so by physically castrating themselves, or is He speaking of those who remain celibate for the sake of the Kingdom? Calvin, Luther, and others have taken the latter view. Both Our Lord and St Paul stress that few have been called to live as a eunuch, that is, abstaining from marriage, which also means abstaining from sexual activity. If one is called to that life, then would God's grace not be sufficient for the one called? Would he need to go to such drastic lengths as to physically emasculate himself? I say 'no'.
You mentioned that the passage you cited speaks only of castration and not celibacy... I don't think that washes. The preceding verses speak of marriage, divorce, and how God designed us from the very beginning, that is, the gender binary, and what the purpose of sexual intercourse is for procreation. Celibacy is for those to whom it is given, which St. Paul repeats. If one is born with malformed genitalia, or if one is physically emasculated by another, then that's a reality that the castrated person has to deal with... What about the one who makes himself a eunuch? Well, if celibacy is a supernatural gift, then would one so gifted need to do something so drastic as to physically castrate himself, or would God's grace be sufficient to sustain him in his celibacy? I have great difficulty believing that a Divine gift involves self mutilation.
As for cutting off limbs and plucking out eyes ... what is Our Lord saying here? Is he teaching that sin comes from these various body parts, and to amputate when they lead us into sin?!?! Where do you find any teaching in the Bible that it's your appendages that cause you to sin? Doesn't the Bible teach that our thoughts and desires are wicked? I hope you wouldn't interpret passages that speak of the evil of the hearts of men to say that you should have your heart surgically removed. Our Lord is speaking of the war that we are to wage upon sin in our life. St Paul speaks of warring against the members and crucifying the flesh. Again, this isn't about doing physical violence to one's body, but rather, fighting sin and bringing our whole selves under the lordship of Christ.
Finally, we're commanded to be in the world, but not if it. None of us is without sin, none of us can keep the entirety of the Law, and that's why we need a Saviour. There is no Biblical warrant for shunning sinners, for self-righteousness, for mistreating fellow fallen people. I dearly wish that you'd sought better spiritual counsel before attempting to treat spiritual and mental maladies with surgery. You don't need castration or amputation, you need Jesus Christ, you need to be indwelt by the Holy Ghost, you need the circumcision of the heart. No surgical procedure can fix what's on the inside.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 I do have Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, thank you very much. 😇 The Kingdom of Heaven will continue to advance, with or without you. Other people have different experiences from you, and guess what -- God loves them too. Get used to it now, or prepare to start "weeping and gnashing" outside the city.
While I had not become a progressive Christian in personal belief, I had come very close to it. I’m thankful for your videos because they have helped me to repent of this way of thinking and to return to the truth that is in Christ. I feared I was beyond mercy for coming so close to it but I’m thankful Jesus is exalted to give repentance and remission of sins.
I am concerned with the use of the word deconstruction. It seems to me Luther was a deconstructionist. True revival deconstructs false faith, renews and even provides deeper understandings of core biblical truths. The way deconstruction is being used I fear it will be used to demonized Bible teachers who offer new insight. Actually, it already is.
Much of what is going on in the church needs to be deconstructed and renewed in the foundational biblical truths.
@@susanjolly2117 I am concerned with the lack of the use of the word and practice of discipleship in many churches today.
Very much same. It's what caused my decon and reconstruction. Happy to say I am much stronger now because of it. Glory to God
God bless and keep you Andrew! Just always trust the word. Jesus of course IS the Word! Don't let any vain reasoning steer you away from the truth of scripture. 1 Peter, 23 - being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
"I don't know if Jesus smiled at everybody He met but I know that He DIED for everybody that sinned" Your words hit me in the chest like a sledgehammer. Praise God. God is great. Praise God.
'My satisfaction doesn't prove the goodness and truthfulness of a thing' well said, pastor Mike!
it does in religion
@@thedisintegradordid bro watch the sermon?
It is a very good point: be skeptical of somebody who isn't Christian telling you how you have to act as a Christian.
God bless you, brother Mike. You are a wonderful person and a true follower of Christ. Thank God for your knowledge and thank you for sharing it
Define what you believe is a true follower of Christ
As an atheist outsider, it is fascinating to see how progressivism is parasitizing religion and how it is being diagnosed and fought. You have my secular sympathies.
I was like you for 34yrs of my 42yrs on this earth. I spent my life trying to disprove GODs existence through science (namely physics, quantum physics and biology) because I thought belief in GOD was dumb and I had the same feelings most atheists do about him. He was cruel, angry and unjust.
Not trying to be mean but just curious if you have the same thoughts as I did.
What is your purpose on this planet?
@@djirate052380 Quite the contrary, I was a believer for 25 years. Ironically I was trying to prove God existed to myself and deconverted in the process. Seems rather strange to me you were so adamant to disprove something you didn't believe existed. I would never bother disproving the existence of Shiva, for example.
Atheist sentiments vary, more so than believers I venture.
My purpose is what I choose it to be. Both a benefit and a burden of the godless is to choose our meaning in life, or I suppose you could let it be chosen for you. To face the universe as a potentially soulless mortal being is both terrifying and existentially liberating. I am aware why many humans shy away from it. It has been the best thing that ever happened to me though.
I take it your purpose is written or derived from scripture then? I must assume a Christian denomination, therefore the Bible, given the video.
@@Halcy0nSky everyones purpose is in scripture. Without it there is no purpose. Our purpose is to serve the LORD and spread the Gospel. Inevitably heaven.
After what happened to me I could never deny Jesus.
You said you were an atheist but you believe in Shiva, the goddess of life and death? You're not an atheist then.
I don't understand how someone's faith could devolve from Jesus and life to Satan and death. I was the one who hated Christians and ANY other belief of gods. I studied catholicism, Christianity, buddhism, yoga, used to be in love with drawing occult and baphomet images. Some of the most horrible disgusting things you could think of I used to draw. At one point believed the earth was seeded by aliens lol. So stupid, I was blinded.
After all these years the scales were lifted like Paul on the road to Damascus. My transformation is less than a year old and I feel so badly for people who are on the wide road. You fell off but Jesus will still forgive you for turning to satan. Anything that is not of GOD is of satan.
I am going to be praying for you dearly. Jesus is so powerful and beautiful. My life hasn't been the same for me.
@@djirate052380 Spoken like a Christian. I think you missed my point about Shiva, of course I don't believe in any gods, goddesses, or mythical beings. My point is that it would be strange if I 'spent my life', as you said, 'trying to disprove' the existence of a particular one. Why weren't you trying to disprove the Maori god of light Ao, for example. Trying to disprove anything while adamantly insisting it does not exist, is indicative of psychological denial. Such a state of cognitive dissonance would be quite unhealthy. In which case, I am glad you have come to honestly admit you believe in the Christian god. Even a wrong belief needs to be consciously admitted before it can be worked through. Good for you.
Of course, they are all equally trivial to me. I do not think about the god of the Bible anymore than I do the god of the Quran. I focus on testing and proving they things I DO think exist, and if they fail, my beliefs adjust accordingly. Belief is not a choice for me, it is consequence of what I know about the world. Change that and you change my beliefs. It is a very different mode of thinking compared to a believer. Would you ever risk your belief in God for the sake of truth? I doubt it.
My time is largely spent on exploring, understanding, and enjoying the world I was born into. Anything beyond is unknown and uncertain until such a time it needs to be revised. I am quite happy, I assure you, just as I accept your forthright claim that you are happy, too.
I do not revile my past as a beliver, though, nor do I look at my art from that time and feel disgust. They are simply an expression of my development at the time. Some of the most terriying art is Christian, mind you, take Dante's Inferno, for example. You should speak with your pastor of religious mentor about your art; I'm sure there is valuable learning about your past self to be gained from it, as well as self-forgiveness.
@@Halcy0nSky the artist of Dante's Inferno was Catholic but yeah. I didn't just try to disprove Christianity but all religions. Spirituality I'd say more so. I found out though that the only truth is in GODs word. It never changes and the Holy Bible is axiomatic in everyway down to the finest details which having all those prophecies match up throughout history is literally almost impossible unless there were a divine being behind it. I also realized that if I live my life for GOD and I end up being wrong then there's nothing, that's it. However if I am right I spend eternity in heaven. If I do NOT live my life for GOD and I am wrong it's eternity in hell. Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Fear not him who has the power to cast down the body but the one who has the power to cast down the body and the soul. It's an obvious choice for me now I guess.
All the best to you but I hope you find the truth in GOD again because anything else is not looking good. I'll be praying for you.
I met Jen Hatmaker years ago. What a lovely, intelligent, confused young lady who could easily influence a person with her big smile and easy way. If it feels good, do it! That is not Christianity in any way!
Drugs can feel good. Power feels good. Murder can feel good. Let's go out and do it! /s
@@theyellowmeaning and especially power and murder in the name of Jesus! Institutional conservative clergy backing politics and self-made literal fundamentalist Christians are expert in that. Never seen a so-called progressive Christian praising weapons or kill others quoting the bible.
Maybe they do drugs? I don't know, but they surely leave power and murder to the specialists.
The Bible says to die to fleshly desires DAILY!
I heard she doesn’t even make hats!
Jen mad Hatmaker.
I’m a young Christian who has been progressive for a period of time. Thank you for this video, Pastor !
Anyone else feel like the talk deserved to be another hour longer? So much quality here
He speaks and presents well.
I literally just made a similar comment 😊
It's about secular Jews ascribing the Christian ethos to the secular drive, as Father Leonard Feeney stated long ago and Pope Leo XIII in humanum genus, calling out their order of the Freemasons.
They say Peter was friends with Paul. But throughout the whole book of Acts it relates that Peter never said so much as one word to Paul. NOT ONE WORD!
Amen
Such a good analysis. Thank you for sharing this.
"I don't know if Jesus smiled at everyone he met, but I do know that he died for everyone who sinned."
I will have to use that quote...
“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? Jer. 17:9
Interesting speech. And here I was thinking I was a progressive Christian, turns out, I'm not 😂.
I'd say compared to progressives I'm the "worst" type of fundamentalist. I was even accused of fundamentalism by my theology professors at university 😊.
There is still a lot I'd disagree with but I think I'm generally on the same page. Therefore this is one of my favourite channels. Keep up the good work!
Praising God for this post. I was just having a convo about what lie can you boil down all the lies of progressive churches. One of your 'dialogues' with a progressive is an actual convo I had almost 10 years ago with a sister in Christ who has fallen victim of her progressive church. Thank you for reminding me to keep Jesus central in all future convos.
@Chumnley snoop sounds like you do. Maybe make a video about your experiences and insights will help you express your ideas and be better understood!! We all have our own experiences and we can all learn from each other. That is the beauty of modern social sharing apps!! We are connecting with people from all walks of life and experiences.
The specific convo I had with another believer in a now almost unrecognizably Christian church was expressing an idea (gleaned from her pastor) that Jesus did away with the Old Testament. This very idea was expressly negated by Jesus’ own words in Matthew 5:17. She was stunned and didn’t know He has said it. I have since listened to her pastor and realize that such a thought is coming from the pastor as he questions the validity of the OT in very subtle and deceptive ways so much that he is leading to confusion in his flock. Recently his church has admittedly been losing congregants in droves as thankfully some of them have finally awoken but the damage is there. I believe this is what Mike is trying to help people see the very subtle damage that is happening in some churches.
Thankfully I have not been in a congregation similar to what it appears you have experienced. Since you have, maybe sharing your experiences will also help others. Have you thought of creating your own videos on this topic? We are meant to teach each other as iron sharpens iron!! I can’t wait to see your work!
I think before I was saved, I was along the path of being a Progressive Christian or maybe I was? Mostly because I had a hard time understanding Christianity’s views on LGBQT and women. I had people outside my home growing up teach me about Christianity, but I didn’t really have it in my home. Those combined with our culture breads it I think. After watching Melissa Dougherty’s videos it helped me to see the difference between Progressive, New Age, and Biblical Christianity. Along with your videos and hers I have learned about reading the Bible in context. You have taught me the importance of reading scripture and you have provided me some rationale for difficult topics which has been helpful. Your channel has been a blessing to my life.
B
You said the right thing, you learned to read the Bible in context, continue to do this with prayer and fasting. God put His word above His name!
Psalms 138:2 kjv
“I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.”
God created them male and female
It’s very scientific ~ biological.
In God it works perfectly and reproduces the same kind.
Pay more attention to the Teachings of Jesus than the CHURCH. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are where you will find Jesus' words.
The Republican CHURCH inadvertently became the synagogue of Satan when they let Rapture Prophets and Evangelical Zionist Mega-Church Pastors proclaim Trump, chosen by God, to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Hundreds of millions of Christians deceived. Do you know what Jesus taught about that Temple?
If you still seek a place to make your stand -- stand with the church of brotherly love -- Revelation 3: 6-12. We keep Jesus' commandments -- Matthew 22: 36-40, and have the "Little Strength" of the Rock -- Matthew 16: 17-18.
See also Matthew 6: 5-8.
Epochal eclipse April 8th 2024. Matthew 16: 4 Jonah 3: 4-5, 8
Don't stare at the sun -- exercise YOUR FAITH -- speak with Thy God -- not THE god.
@@ToOpen6seven What would Jesus do?
Luke 19-27
Thanks for this talk. I praise God that I'm no longer at the mercy of my emotions and really that's what the secular world and "progressive Christianity" is all about. They've made idols out of their emotions. When I turned my life over to God, I was no longer a slave to the ego or self.
Amen!
No, you just make an idol out of a book.
@@darrenwithers3628 I'm an earnest believer that studies, prays and meditates daily to fully understand the glory of God. Is that what you do Darren?
@Chumnley snoop Huh? I submit to the truth. No political ideology. No left or right paradigm. I picked up my cross and will follow him until my end. Will you? This is the last response from me to you. I have no interest in dialogue with a coward that hides behind a moniker.
I am a lifelong Christian struggling to live in this world, I am 74 years old. Your words as a minister are the best I have heard.
@Mike_Winger1 thank you
@@lynnjamesallen1171 Thank you so much for your encouragement! By the way, the person who replied to you using Mike Winger’s name on here was unfortunately a scammer using his name and picture. We’re sorry for the confusion; they have been banned. God bless you ~Staff
I'm 43 and envious that you're much closer to he finish line. But I know I have to obey God and be here as long as He pleases.
Hang in there. I promise you heaven is the most beautiful thing.
I am 10 years younger and you are in the right place, been saved since I was 13 how about you?
I had pneumonia and MRSA at the same time and a nurse practitioner I know said it was a "man cold" and I almost died from trying to tough it out. When I finally got to where I literally couldn't breath, I went to the ER. Good lesson to be learned there. Just because someone is a professional in their field, doesn't mean they have your best interests at heart :P That goes for pastors as well as nurses/doctors. The best thing is to read the Bible for yourself.
I'm almost as shocked as I am GRATEFUL that you lived thru that! 🙏 God is truly amazing.
I think we tend to forget people are imperfect! THE word of GOD is perfect!
Amen! Yes, God is truly good. And yes, reading the Bible for ourselves will give us His Truth. However, in my opinion, applying scripture is of even greater importance than reading. God bless you brother, and keep painting! :)
What's a man cold?
@@BravoSeven Hey, read 1 Samuel 15 and 2 Samuel 12 to 15, all the way through. That's pretty enlightening too. It's also quite surprising to see Moses talk back to Jehovah, in Numbers 14:32, and pretty successfully too - that was definitely surprising.
Also, Chick in Truth, can we find out what version of Romans 1:20, angels had exposure to, pre Revolt? I'd be fascinated, to discuss that, if possible.
Thank you so much for this!! Progressive Christianity has been getting inside Brazilian churches lately and I'm so thankful for these videos because now I can tell my brothers in Christ where exactly their view is separating them from God. I hope I can be used by God so He can pull them back to the true doctrine with the help from your videos. God bless you! Hugs from Brazil
Agreed. Triste realidade
As harsh as it probably sounds, Christianity has no purpose in becoming "Progressive". This just confuses and hurts the cause; for the sake of satiating people's feelings. The Lord never sugar coated his words or actions because it hurt the people he was effecting with them. He made you feel guilty. He made you feel bad. He made you hate what you had become and want to change. He pointed out your flaws with a firm finger in your face and a stern tone in voice. If you cried, it was because you knew he was right. Like a parent scolding a child; as it should be. And then he walks away and tells you to follow him on your own volition; leaving it to YOU to make a choice. And look how many people followed/are following him with his light genuinely in their hearts.
This progressive wave is just...nothing but a scheme to push an agenda in disguise or to just get as much money as possible because "It makes me feel good about myself." It is nothing but destructive and plain evil. Why is it evil? Because it can kill a Child of the Faith from their Faith - one of the very few actions that God has deemed as Absolutely Unforgiveable.
Just like Comedians many Homosexuals look like they are happy only to cover the pain of the life they are living as told to me by many Homosexuals I know
At first when I started listening to Mike Winger's videos I thought, "What is he up to attacking all these different things?" But I think it's good he is because he illuminates a lot of problems and traps out there for Christians. Easy to get sidetracked.
Indeed. One could say that reading the Bible: "Why are Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets attacking all these different things?" It's for the same reason a shepherd fights off a wolf.
Truly, Jesus did the same.
It's about secular Jews ascribing the Christian ethos to the secular drive, as Father Leonard Feeney stated long ago and Pope Leo XIII in humanum genus, calling out their order of the Freemasons.
"I don't know that Jesus smiled at everybody He met, but I know that He died for everybody who sinned." Excellent!
How did his death change anything for anyone? What do you imagine happened before he died that changed?
@@MrTheclevercat it's not what changed before He died. It's what changed when He died: All human beings in the past, present (and future) are guilty of breaking the (moral) Law of GOD, and the penalty is eternal Hell, but because GOD is Loving and Gracious with us, He allowed His only son to become a human being, live a sinless life and die in our place for all our wrong doing, and in this way restore us into relationship with GOD our Heavenly Father and creator, forever. 3 days after dying on the Roman cross, Jesus rose from the dead, proving that we too that aknowledge His work spoken of not only in the Gospels, but also prophesied in the Old Testament, will also be ressurected to eternal life with GOD our Heavenly Father.
@@amcds2867 Nothing supernatural actually happened. Sorry, your demigod wasn't actually part god. So nothing changed. You're a gullible sucker lol.
@@amcds2867 It's actually hilarious to me that you think someone could die and that would affect you and your "sins" as though that was a real problem you're now in the clear from. LOL are you really an adult?
@@MrTheclevercat if you came to mock, that shows me something of your lack of maturity. I thought you were seeking answers to why Christians promote the truth of the Gospel. It turns out you're just one more troll.
That’s the saddest thing using Jesus for your own agenda without truly experiencing who He is and the freedom He gives by the finished work done on the cross. I need Jesus more and more each day and I’m grateful for the gift of salvation by grace through faith and for the Holy Spirits conviction and correction. Thank you for your teaching Ps. Mike. Everything in culture and around me tells me I should be a progressive Christian but I’m thankful for scripture and teachers like yourself who worship in spirit and in truth. I ask for prayer for my family and for wisdom as well- I’m in a season of transition and trying to find a healthy church I can live out my gifts and serve but also holds on to the truth in scripture and is filled with the Holy Spirit.
Just prayed for you, Rachel. ♥️
I definitely agree, even in writing this I felt convicted and don’t want to be a hypocrite bc I know at times I’ve done this in my heart when I sin against God or am not obedient to Him. I’m grateful for the grace and mercy He’s also allowed and given to us. Praying now too!
Like the idiot Winger that ignores teaching by Jesus that clearly imply works are key to salvation, not faith alone, but okay
God works in mysterious ways. So does Satan. Satan fills the church with LUKEWARM Christian leaders and they chip away at true faith a bit at the time till they bastardize Christianity and corrupt true faith. Kudos to you for clinging to THE FAITH.
"...If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1
Progressives preach another gospel.
So your scripture forbids other preaching that disagrees with your interpretation of your chosen scripture? Why would that be the case, if the all knowing influence on the writing of your scripture was confident it's the correct interpretation? Is your god insecure? Is he poor at communication? Does he hate others that read stuff from outside of your scripture?
Seems childish, arrogant, controlling and absurd to me.
But then again, all religions, including those that have disappeared, look identical from the outside, when using critical thinking.
@@sids5002 Real Christianity isn't a religion. And it doesn't forbid other preaching. But Christianity does have the right to define its parameters. Calling all things Christian accomplishes nothing.
@@walterhelm8186 So belief is individually framed, and each person can interpret scripture their own way? I thought it was supposedly perfect and eternal.
Using that logic, I choose to ignore it completely, but can fully expect my saviour to do his work and get me to heaven.
This doesn't just describe progressive Christianity...it basically describes the entire culture. Some people slap the name of Jesus on it, others claim atheistic materialism, etc, but the practice is the same. Seeking internally for truth and wisdom.
That makes sense, given how culture driven progressive Christianity tends to be.
Funny how they call it progressive. Just the same old lie-you can be like God- dressed up in 'Christian' terms. Paul says beware of these people and their demonic doctrines. We need to be so discerning today. Paul's warning rings out: FROM AMONG YOUR OWN SELVES will arise men speaking twisted things, to DRAW AWAY the disciples after them. Acts 20:29-30 ESV
@Boss Interepid uh, no. Truth is embodied in Jesus Christ, as he has shown.
@Boss Interepid wrong again! His own words: I am the TRUTH. Before Abraham was born, I AM, etc...
@Boss Interepid you are dead in your sins, and blinded by the god of this world, your father the devil
I had a heart-breaking conversation with my goddaughter a few years ago (she was ~13yo), where she assumed that my love for God meant that I hated gay people. Praise His holy name that her questioning afforded me to correct her and share good doctrine in that conversation.
Difficult conversation. Hopefully she saw through you, and the bible, and makes her own mind up that we are all equal and worthy of respect, regardless of the obscene morality and hatred contained in the bible.
Sounds like she's bright enough to ignore the word salad and indoctrination of a frevent bible thumper, and will choose to live gay people along with everyone else.
@@sids5002 why are you so angry?
@@nathanoosterhuis6232 Angry? Is that your interpretation of my words? I would say, caring and open, wishing her well. Just because I may disagree about a god doesn't make me angry. Why would it?
Nobody wants your condescension. How dare you think that you are somehow a good person because you claim not to hate gay people while actively participating in their oppression. It would be like someone saying they loved the black people they had as slaves. It is meaningless.
@@sids5002 No, you are definitely angry. It's evident from your vitriole towards the Christian faith.
There's something that underlies all of progressivism, and when you realize what it is and what it means, it will become clear why progressives say and believe what they do. Post-modern philosophy teaches that there is no such thing as objective or absolute truth. This is why progressives say nonsensical things like "I'll speak my truth" or "live your truth". Progressivism, including progressive Christianity, is about feelings over facts. In other words, if your facts don't validate their feelings, you must be wrong. It's a world view in which each person, not God, is the arbiter of good and evil. Sound familiar? In no small bit of irony, this is the original sin.
Well said
🎯
@@sarahd5341 there is a new social media website out now that everything you say on it is "your truth"
Nailed it!
@Chumnley snoop "Trust me they are wolf in sheep's clothing"
like yourself?
I sadly had to change churches because of my own daughter being a progressive Christian, I was even bluntly told that I’m not being a Christian if I won’t cave and accept the gender ideologies 😔 and she declares at every opportunity that all of her daughters are trans/ binary / pan
Keep the prodigals in prayer 🙏
Sick
I am so sorry you are going through this. I live in WA State and society is insane in their moral corruption/sin here. All of us that speak truth in love are labeled as bigots and hating. You can’t speak out against sin because this state is so anti-God or the churches preach falsely in order to be inclusive to all. Almost all of us know someone who is homosexual or transgender. I think Christians are partly to blame for this because we remained silent for so long instead of defending the truth. We were “scared” of being labeled as intolerant and bigots…or worse, judgmental. I am okay with being labeled a bigot because I would rather stand with God than with society. But, I know it has to be hard for you because this is your own daughter treating you this. I pray that you stand firm in biblical truth. I pray that you keep praying for your daughter and the church she attends. Because at this point, I believe continually praying is all that you can do. Much love and support to you as you go through this.
Msny churches are slowly leaning to acceptance ..those once soild ones. Scary scary.
It all started with a Episcopal pastor long ago accepting homosex stuff sadly.
There's no way I'd be able to last a week reading and listening to that stuff. You are definitely a stronger man than I am.
Things like these always remind me that some people are far more qualified for these conversations than I am.
Mike certainly has a gift!
Thanks, Mike! I used to go to a progressive church and still get emails from them. Most recently I received the sermon outline for Luke 13:1-9, in which the sermon totally ignores the notion of hell, makes Jesus out to be a guy who was "affected by Pilate's abuse towards fellow Galileans," and says the message is to not be like the fruitless tree- do good. What I find interesting is the sermons can be very close to the truth, but tend to leave out the deity & exclusivity of Christ, the truth of eternal punishment, and the seriousness of sin. It has been interesting reading their sermons from a Biblical point of view given how close and how far off the mark they can be.
@Chumnley snoop W H A T
Who do you THINK she is?
When Satan tempted Eve in the garden, he did the same thing. Initially, he was very close to what God said, but then he lied. There’s nothing new under the sun.
@Katie M You got one very important thing right, "the seriousness of sin." As scholarship is improving, Christian publishers are getting more honest and do not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus. Hell never belonged in the Bible in the first place. Very many Bible translations do not contain the word and have eliminated the pagan word Hell all together. You should carry out your own research into the Bible teachings on annihilation, eternal punishment and universal reconciliation to Christ. I have no doubt that you'll be dumbfounded when you find out what the Bible really says.
@@markwilson8925 Did a quick survey of English-translation Bibles (ESV, NIV, NKJV, NRSV), they all still use the word “hell.” Translation practices normally use the equivalent in the target language unless they have a distinct intent with their translation, such as the WEB retaining “Yahweh” throughout instead of “God.” Since many of the scholarly writings contain a heavy dose of the original language, often including long passages in Hebrew or Greek. It should be no surprise that they would retain the terms sheol, gehenna, tarterus, or hades, but those would normally be in the original language.
Brilliantly sums up Progressive Christianity in a single sentence: “They’re just showing people the door out of Christianity”… Boom! Nailed it!
If what you represent is Christianity then it's a good thing.
Trump? Chosen by God to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem? Bush -- born again Christian Conservative? Jesus NEVER taught war -- but we wage war in the Name of God.
Rapture Prophets FOR HIRE -- FAKE EWES -- ravenous wolves dressed like sheep and Evangelical Zionist Mega-Church Pastors deceived hundreds of millions of Christians worldwide. Just as Jesus said they would be deceived.
Epochal Eclipse April 8th 2024. Matthew 16: 4
Exercise YOUR FAITH -- speak with THY GOD -- if you want to "SEE' anything besides an eclipse. Jonah 3: 4-5, 8 Jonah 4: 11
I suspect that YOU are a Republican -- not a Christian.
If you seek a place to make your stand -- stand with the church of brotherly love -- Revelation 3: 6-12. We keep Jesus' commandments -- Matthew 22: 36-40, and have the "Little Strength" of the Rock -- Matthew 16: 17-18.
See also Matthew 6: 5-8.
ALL WAR MUST END NOW.
Yeah like conservatives are living God's word. That's laughable
Give people a bible to read and you'll have just made a new atheist.
@@MrTheclevercat Like you actually read it. Priceless
Thank you for explaining progressive Chrisianity. It doesn't sound like Christianity at all. An oxymoron
I think it's probably important to recognize that most of the progressive Christians do not agree that the Bible is the actual inerrant word of God. Excellent message.
Yes, because it isn't.
Thank goodness for that, as it's not.
@J B You actually said in public, that because someone doesn't believe the same myth as you, they must be gay. Where to start?
Firstly, that's unchristian by your own scripture.
Secondly, it's no more than a guess, as the two are utterly unrelated, so you have zero evidence.
Thirdly, you assume that others think that being gay us a bad thing. Of course, to any caring, living human, it isn't. It's absolutely of no relevance to anything, in precisely the same way as being straight is.
Your bigotry shines forth.
Nailed it! So glad there are still people seeing through the cultural deceit, and standing up for the truth, despite its unpopularity.
Amen! ❤️
AMEN!!!
So you are not into progress? how come you are using a computer? they are not sanctioned or mentioned in the Bible? How about modern medicine, do you ignore that for having your demons exorcised like the Bible says?
@@chrisyoung5929 sorry, but this is a poor comparison and weak attempt to disprove or discredit what this video is all about. Progressive "Christianity" is not the same as the "progressive" spiritual growth of a born-again believers sanctification.
You need to listen to the video again.
@@truthmatters82 Is your Christianity the same as the Roman Catholic Latin masses of a thousand years ago or has your church reinterpreted its worship? This is just the same. Each sect that has moved away from what was think they are right, they have progressed. They then see the next groups too progressive. This has been happening since the great Schism a thousand years ago.
My point is that with 30,000 Christian sects currently. Each thinks that it has guessed right. Each can trot out the Bible Quotes they think support their version, So how can you know that your version is any more correct that than the Latin mass of a 1000 years ago?
I am so glad I have never heard of any of the "leaders" you identified in the beginning. And now I am better informed about potential "symptoms" I encounter. TY
You are blessed to have avoided TBN and the other fake Christian networks.
Unfortunately, I have heard of them. I recently learned my wife has been reading them in secret for over a year.
@@Yashael341 Good for her! Hopefully you'll listen to what she has learned and learn something yourself.
@@Yashael341 oh no.. you mean, she could be... opening her mind.. what demons will get in eh? you're rporbably right we can't trust that Spirit of God to lead his kiddies.. we gotta have those leashes of commandments and behavioural fence laws of evangelicalism. I'll be be praying that she misses the self aggrandizement that can happen in that progressive movement Ian, more seriously.. but it can truly be something that brings her closer to the heart of God too.. so don't believe every youthful minsiter who got a bee in his bonnet over a hot topic to get more clicks and build his following. Oh yeah that's right it's not about him at all, it's about Jay-zuz
This helped me so much considering how to treat people in different situations. 27:34 - 28:04
Sometimes love isn’t a smile, it’s telling someone the truth in hopes they can receive it and be saved/sanctified
I went through a long process to mature in my walk with God that included chastisement periods because I kept getting off track and being deceived into believing a lie or mistruth. Now I think if I could identify three things that turned everything around for me and got me out of getting in trouble and taking a spanking more often than not, it would be reading my Bible every morning and night. I read the Old Testament in the morning from front to back and start over and over. At night I read the New Testament front to back and start over and over. I believe every word said. If I don’t understand something I ask Jesus what it means and then wait because eventually He will answer. Or I will smarten up and use a dictionary. I also pair that with private worship times, just me singing to the Lord. Secondly instead of focusing on things I want and dream about and the world in general, I’m constantly asking what God wants and dreams for me and obeying Him instead of running off on my own, and sometimes that means just sitting still and waiting on the Lord when my instinct is to just work work work do do do. Thirdly and maybe most importantly I’ve learned to listen to the Holy Spirit and as soon as I’m tempted or I’ve been shot with some flaming arrow that just sends me some overwhelming desire to sin, I don’t wait even a second, I don’t try to deal with it on my own. I immediately tattle on myself to God and beg for help. This has allowed me to really get to know the Holy Spirit like never before as He steps in and plays defense in my brain, or neutralizes obsessive thoughts or just supernaturally removes those flaming arrows. It taught me how to hear those warnings and urgings. Just doing those three things have kept me out of trouble and walking in peace and blessing. I might go through what I call a teaching trial but it’s nothing like getting in trouble and taking a spanking! The cool thing is I’m a horrible speaker. I’m a natural writer but speaking is not my thing at all. I trip over words and just can’t communicate the same way. But when I’m walking in blessing with the Holy Spirit and those moments come where I’m hit with a curve ball question by an unbeliever...something amazing happens. The words just come out perfectly and so well that no one even debates it, they might change the subject or agree, but it just sort of ends the conversation...and I know that isn’t me! I’m usually just as stunned at what I say as the person I say it to.
I have a copy of "Life Principles Bible," by Charles Stanley. Although one has to be rather discerning regarding the truth of the text, because it was rewritten to reflect words used by today's culture, it does include "Life Lessons" which is very helpful. The Bible is modeled from the NASB.
Wow, Candace! This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing your heart.
Excellent
Inspiring thank you for sharing! Especially the part about asking for help when facing sin. Im reborn, and learning how to befriend the Holy Spirit, and when I can lean into it.
I love your approach to reading old testament in the morning and then new testament in the evening. I've never thought of doing it that way. I'm just kinda all over the place 😅 I'm also praying for this level of discipline in this season of my life. The discipline to sit with God and here from His word. The discipline also to listen after reading to His instruction through the Holy Spirit. The only one who can translate Scripture correctly is God Himself. I also believing praying over parts we don't understand is effective because I've seen God give me clarity/revelation. I no longer rely on pastors/preachers/sermons. I consider those as complimentary to what God has already revealed to me. Otherwise, I've generally realized that leaning into God's word quite literally renews ones mind. And running to the Holy Spirit when tempted is very wise and gives us strength to resist sin which we wouldn't otherwise have. I thank God for your life and for your growth. May He give you strength and steadfastness to continue to contend for the faith in the name of Jesus Christ❤ Thank you for sharing this❤️❤️❤️
how do they describe pedophilia?? That can be used in the same context as homosexuality.
Mike’s diagnosis: “The thing that’s at the heart of it is that your inner sense of goodness and personal purpose is your spiritual authority and campus” 45:16 is spot on. Hence why Moralistic Therapeutic Deism is the dominant worldview today even among those who call themselves Christians. Which is exactly why progressive Christianity is gaining ground today. Most people are looking for a god of their own making.🤷🏾♂️
Compass
the transparancy that is happening because of technology and the rate and apititude for dishonesty to be shown is more than it has ever been. Selling Spirituality* was religion getting in bed with corporateacracy. It was bound to happen though as power had to shift out of the institutionals at some point. Personal Agency has always been an issue for religous authorities, and it should be.. it challenges them as the authorativite mouth pieces.. but that need not be Moaralistic Therapautic Diesm. The Role of the Holy Spirit and the priesthood of all believers has also bothered many over the centuries too, mainly because it posits not the Psychologilizing of the Gospel truths nor the diefication of reason. So I hear your caution with trusting in a deeper part of ourselves that could have been created in the image of God and that over a lifetime the Spirit working with that image redemptively and transformatively might challenge church programs and religious personalities.
I’m gonna start using that, Moralist Therapeutic Deism (sometimes to put myself in check) it’s a great concise description.
If you could tell me where you got it or if you just use it yourself I would greatly appreciate it.
Western churchianity is built on worshipping gods of our own making--But we here in the West are not ready to admit that to ourselves…..
@@noahclaycameron I first heard that phrase in the movie, American Gospel: Christ Alone. Highly recommended!
I have to say I get such a strong feeling of live and compassion when I listen to you. I just can't help but want to be the best Christian I can be when I hear you speak. I love the honesty, yet kindness in your talks.
I am so grateful to Mike. I was totally on the path to accepting progressive Christianity until I began to watch Mike on UA-cam. His teachings brought me back to the Bible as my foundation and spiritual authority and how deceptive progressive Christianity is. I was so excited to watch this sermon!
He didn't bring you back to the Bible. He brought you back to *his* specific way of understanding and interpreting the Bible.
@@4thbrooker No, he brought me back to the foundation of the scriptures and he himself says to test everything he says against the scriptures which we should all do of any teachings. And by the way, you perfectly proved his point.
@@boxerspause No, he brought you back to the foundations of scripture as _he_ sees it - according to _his_ understanding and view. You're perfectly free to agree with him and align with your views with his, but there is no good in pretending that Mike's view is the perfect and complete understanding or that his view isnt actually his view but rather is just what the "Bible says" (which, btw, the Bible doesnt _say_ anything - humans read it, interpret it, and then speak _for_ the biblical authors... and that's kinda my whole point here).
@@4thbrooker No, he brought me back to my Biblical foundation. I was falling into progressive Christianity and ignoring what the Bible says. I am not worried about Mike’s view, only God’s. Timothy 2 3:16-17 All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
@@stevepaige7557 No, I understand exactly what he said and meant and my response needs no change.
I wish I had a youth pastor with this much wisdom when I was a teenager in the church.
Agree and it has changed so much with more apostasy in the church. The way is narrow. May The Lord be your light. 🙏
@@cat-bg3rv Thank goodness for apostates finding a way out of the horrendous morality and bullying that is christianity. Good for them. People can more easily be good without religions. Good people do good, bad people do bad, but it takes religion to make good people do bad! So true.
My old youth pastor got caught up in a child prostitution sting. I have a hard time looking to or up toward church leaders anymore.
@@sids5002 some of the most anti-christian regimes were the most horrible, such as the French revolution, the third Reich, and Communist Russia
@@sids5002 some of the most anti-christian regimes were the most horrible, such as the French revolution, the third Reich, and Communist Russia. Religion doesn't get good people to do bad acts, it prevents bad people from acting on their bad acts
"I don't know that Jesus smiled at everybody He met, but I know that He died for everybody." - Mike Winger, 2022. Great quote. []
Except he’s wrong. He’s knows no such thing. He was TOLD that, and chose to accept it based on nothing but a story.
@@roems6396 He's not wrong. There's plenty of evidence for the life, death, and even the resurrection of Jesus the Son of God.
Of course. That is what Jesus instructed. In short, “Tell” the good news. How else would the life of Jesus or anyone else be expressed? It has to be told. So do you believe Galileo existed? No proof of it. We’ve been told his story. What’s the problem with “telling”?
@@dwest200 Nailed it.
@@imamjimjamlawrence
No there isn’t. There is literally not one single shred of evidence that he existed at all. We accept that he existed almost solely because Paul said he met his brother James. That is the single verifiable statement that we have that Jesus even existed. There is zero evidence to support his resurrection.
I may be wrong, but when a progressive gets confrontational, I just walk away. I shake the dust off my feet and move on. If they only want to fight or name call....I move on.
Dang...I wish this was twice as long. You are a sober, thoughtful teacher Mike. You are a blessing.
That's literally what I thought when it ended :(
You can change the settings to half speed if you want but then sounds drunk.
@@enigma1863 lol smort.
I’ve been looking forward to this. I’ve am seeing numerous people around me moving into progressive Christianity and was unsure on how to tackle it. It’s very painful to see loved ones reject the Lord and not fully understand where to focus the conversation without the original shared foundation.
Jesus said there would be a great falling away in Mat 24 and Paul told of the great apostasy in 2 Thes 2. So if nothing else, take comfort in the promises and truth of God's Word and then cling to all of the promises, particularly Phil 2:12-13.
I know how you feel. It's like they claim to be Christians, but then don't want to give God full supremacy over their life and beliefs. It is the lukewarm believer we see Him talk about. May sound childish, but as a kid I just automatically believed that if someone said they were a Christian they were, despite the Bible talking about stuff like this constantly. When I realized some Christians would have me deny God, it really hurt because I had placed undue trust in people.
And Christ returns and meets the progressive Christian who says Good to meet you but I've moved beyond You! But thanks for coming.
It's about secular Jews ascribing the Christian ethos to the secular drive, as Father Leonard Feeney stated long ago and Pope Leo XIII in humanum genus, calling out their order of the Freemasons.
"Bobblehead Jesus" is a great description.
I also, having just bought some "Choose Your Own Adventure" books for grandkids facing a long roadie, see "progressive Christianity" as being a sort of "Choose Your Own God" version of religious belief. There really isn't an equivalent in any other religion. Though I don't know how Hinduism, with those thousands of Gods, has avoided it.
I can't believe that people can somehow avoid the clear fact of self-serving, self-indulgent self-worship that this satisfies. But so they claim.
The Bible said in the last days, people will do what is right in their own eyes. We are there!❤
Other creeds definitely haven't avoided it!
We can and do have an inversions of inversions.
So Islam and Hinduism and Kabbalistic Judaism all have their own endless versions of themselves.
Which makes sense 🎯 why? There can be only one bullseye right? That's us.
Without listing thousands of sects, Namaste means l worship the 🙏 "god" INSIDE you!
Kabbalists "repair" the creators "faulty" creation.(gnostic)
Sufis also "annihilate" themselves to become possessed by a "god"
(mediumistic)
Christendom is actually the only one under relentless attack in your culture. Which distorts your perception.
It baffles me, as a Progressive Christian, that you think this way. We're not saying that there is no truth, so each individual can believe whatever self-affirming, self-destructive, and/or antisocial ideology that tickles their fancy; we're saying that the truth is more complicated and richly diversified than what your narrow tradition or experience can grasp. For example: In Matthew 19:12, Jesus teaches that "there are eunuchs who have eunuchized themselves for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven." The wording in Greek does NOT say anything about celibacy or virginity, so if your translation says something like that, it's been corrupted. Look it up if you don't believe me. Are you going to deny the clear teaching of this passage, which is that Christian men can choose to get castrated and live as third-gender intersex people, without that being a dishonor? (cf also Isaiah 56, Galatians 3:28) I presume so, but the difference between us is not that I'm believing whatever I want, and you're believing what the Bible clearly teaches.
@ChristianCatboy You're ignoring the context of Jesus's words in Matthew 19:12. He is responding to the disciples' gawk at his teaching on divorce that "If this is the situation between husband and wife [i.e. legitimite divorce is limited to such a small number of cases] it is better not to marry." (And...maybe it's true that many people would be better off not marrying, given divorce is such a big deal, and marriage and raising children, if one does, takes up so much time and energy.)
I probably would _not_ choose to translate that text the way you're mentioning, but in the context, the only way that Jesus's words as a response to that comment make sense is if being "eunuchized" is a description of someone (maybe specifically a man, though that's debatable) who is not married, by choice or happenstance. The same way that the only way the promises of God to "eunuchs" in Isaiah 56:5 make sense is if the primary problem with being a "eunuch" in Isaiah 56 is lacking children. (Your interpretation also seems to pass over how the eunuchs in the passage seem pretty unhappy about being eunuchs.) And the intent of "no male and female" in Galatians 3:28 is pretty obviously to emphasize the statement in the previous verse that "as many of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
The only way these things can be construed to mean anything like "Christian men can choose to get castrated and live as third-gender intersex people, without that being a dishonor." is if you ignore everything else in the passages they're taken from, and then go further than what even the text you've selected says. I guess there's nothing about these passages that explicitly _refutes_ that idea, but they don't support it.
Of course, personally, I think there are many ways that many people among conservative/evangelical Christians misunderstand or misuse the Bible, as well. And that often comes as a result of similarly ignoring context. (If not dishonestly concealing it for the sake of the traditions of men.) But that's a different discussion.
@@ChristianCatboy There has never been a need for a 3rd gender intersex.
The rarity of chromosome variation and the fact that those good people have always lived out their lives as one sex or the other keeps it all very simple.
( An in-law of mine had Turner Syndrome, and l have worked in medicine, so l can discuss these issues anecdotally too)
I once went to a church that was pretty progressive. I thought it was the most genuine church I’ve ever been too. And then just like Mike said that church closed in like 5 years. It got broken apart, in a pretty upsetting way too. The fallout caused people who were some of the most devout Christian’s I know to leave the church and give up their faith completely.
Because it was a house built on sinking sand, and not on the Solid Rock of Christ!
A truly devout Christian should be able to leave a false church and still keep their faith. I grew up in foster care and was abused all throughout my childhood in various ways, (ironically, by the very system that was supposed to protect me, and more ironically, my parents never abused me to begin with, but I call it legal kidnapping)
- but because I had an early Christian start to my life, (by my mom nonetheless) I never blamed God. I blamed people (the system) but I never had an issue with God. Now I’m on a journey of forgiveness, a whole other issue LOL, but the point is that I never walked away from God because of what people did. The key is in understanding the difference between the kingdom of darkness, and the kingdom of light. When people do not understand that we are warring against Powers of darkness and principalities, it helps to separate God from all the evil perpetrated in the world, and upon innocent people.
@@Batya-Grace agreed
What is it that made you think it was genuine?
Yeh and I think that might be the point. Couldn't say for sure, but it feels like that might be the objective.
I have a dear friend who came out of the homosexual lifestyle and shares her testimony. Something I've noticed is those who claim everyone should be accepted and you have to live your own truth, etc... are the most vocal in disparaging her and her husband testimony.
Something I am struggling with is finding the line between truth and legalism. My experience is such that I am surrounded by two groups of people... Progressive Christians and legalists who seem to take delight in the idea of others receiving judgment for falling short.
I tried to articulate this on your fb post about fear of the Lord (different name) and fell drastically short. I am not a progressive and believe in living holy, having reverence and such but I sure wish I had a group of fellow believers who believed that while not wanting to throw stones. Not having fellowship or people who want to seek truth is difficult.
I understand what you mean. It is wrong of us to dismiss those who sin as a lost cause seemingly cheering them on towards the Lake of Fire. As Christians we should be encouraging people to break out of their sin and help them when they struggle.
One side acts as if sin doesn't exist because you can live your life however you want and the other side acts as if you have to be perfect and we can't admit to others we sin. Both of these extremes aren't biblical.
Jesus made people aware of their sin and told them to go and sin no more but he also condemned the priests who were prideful following the law outwardly but not inwardly.
Hope, I think the answer is _grace and truth._
One group desperately needs more truth, and the other group desperately needs to be more loving/gracious.
I like to refer to false religion (progressives), dead religion (legalists), and *pure religion* that James spoke of (James 1:27).
BUT please don't interpret harshness as automatically being legalism. Jesus and his apostles were harsh many times. Our strong, harsh words must be motivated by love and led by the Holy Spirit.
@@Hope8x28 of course
Here is a good Bible Study starting prayer:
Lord, please continually fill me up with truth, knowledge, wisdom and understanding. (Prov 2:1-6)
Lord, please drive out of me every lie I have ever believed, and every bit of foolishness.
Fill me up will all that is good, and drive out all that is evil.
In the Name Of Jesus let it be so.
"Progressive Christianity" will lead one (actually, many) to a very dark and super-heated place. I was largely unaware of this part of pseudo Christianity. Thank you for pointing out some of these false teachers and their deceptions ... using God's Word as the Standard!
Mike Winger is spot on at 19:10 on how "love" gets twisted in the minds of people who get deceived by progressive "Christianity".
One of the more subtle deceptions that I've heard over and over from many pastors and countless Christians is put like this: "You can't "love your neighbor as yourself" if you don't love yourself first, so you need to really love yourself first in order to follow Jesus' teaching on loving your neighbor."
Can you see what's wrong there? Once a person thinks they need to work on "loving themselves", they then prioritize their own needs, wants & desires over loving God, and are turning that command upside-down, with God on the bottom of their priorities. Mike rightfully says what it gets turned around into. I just want to add to his point by mentioning this particular little deception that is very widespread.
It's very subtle, and very deceptive. Jesus is not commanding people to "love themselves", He's taking what people do already (they "love themselves" in a certain way) and telling them to love their neighbors in the same way ("...as yourself" or like you love yourself).
If you need a scripture that makes the point more clearly, I think Ephesians 5:28-29 is a slightly different application of the same point:
"So men ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord loves the church."
My seminary teacher explained it like this:
You want happiness, you want joy? It’s easy - Jesus first, Others second, Yourself last. That’s JOY.
Well said.
You are absolutely right! A book was written in the 80s (If I remember right! There is now a second edition that is more relevant than ever!) called "The Danger of Self Love," by Paul Brownback, which should have become a best seller, but few even knew about it. It covers what you say in great depth.
@@2truthmatters277 THAT's the book that I was reminded of, also! I had gotten a copy of it, many, many years ago, after God had led me away from psychological studies in college. Such a hidden spiritual gem!! =) and highly recommended!
Ironically this is the same word game played during the apostles time with the word "faith" where new comers believed they had licence to do anything. That is why James had to correct them in stating "faith without works is dead". So the word games should be nothing new to us. Also, Jesus said he was putting us as sheep among wolves. So we should be shrewd as snakes.
progressive " christianity" is just a cowardly way to make excuses for all your sins. If they were consistent, they wouldn't use the bible at all. it's not hard to understand the basics of the bible, to say otherwise is horribly dishonest. using feelings as a indicator of truth is very dangerous. if you want to make up your own version of christianity, you will go to hell. see mathew 7:15-23, galatians 1:6-10., proverbs 14:12.
This has been very difficult for me. I'm a new Christian, and have been very, very pro LGBTQ+, and I myself am Bisexual.
Though, i'm in a straight relationship, and celibate.
My condition for joining God was that I wouldn't make up my own rules, and I'd live by his way the best I could. That was the condition when I was saved by God.
I know your reward will be finding peace through self discipline that gets strengthened in you by the Holy Spirit.
You should read Gay Girl Good God- i know how youre feeling but it is SO worth a read
I've already decided to ditch my old worldly identities, and live more for God. My mind is made up. I no longer support any of that.
It's not God's design or will.
Here is the way many churches do altar calls for people that come in church and are not saved. Everyone close your eyes. If you are here and you dont know God, raise your hand. If anyone raises their hand, then we all repeat a prayer that pastor prays. Then we dismiss and everyone leaves. We are failing to make deciples in the churches. When I was saved in a church service 45 yrs ago, they called you to come up to the front. You prayed the prayer to be born again in front of the church. Then the preacher prays for you. The pastor came to me with book called, First Things First. It was like a Bible study on the gospels and the Book of Romans. I just dont see that in the churches Ive attended over the past. The Bible just doesnt have the importance that it use to in alot of churches.
I agree that Progressive Christians are more political than they admit. From the outside that much is quite clear. Are they more political than Conservative Christians as Pastor Winger asserts? From the outside this is clearly false. I don't think anyone can argue now that Conservative Christianity isn't firmly united with the Republican party while Progressive Christians are all over the place politically, including a large contingent that are not religious at all. I think Pastor Winger is confused on this issue because he equates support for progressive causes with the Democratic Party. There are many, many of us who find biblical support for progressive causes and are neither Republican nor Democrat. My conservative friends insist that I am a Democrate, while my progressive friends know that I am not.
"Jesus is the Bobble-head that nods in agreement with whatever you are obsessed with. You don't care about the Bible. You just think it adds authority to you." That is the mark of the days we live in.
Two AWESOME QUESTIONS I WILL COMMIT TO MEMORY (for my own sake):
1) "Is God able to tell you your heart is mistaken - even about your own satisfaction in life?"
2) "Does God have the authority to tell you that you're wrong, even about your own perceptions of your own life?"
I LOVE those questions and I need to ask myself both of those every day. I'm typing them up and putting them in my bible. What a GREAT way to start a bible study, eh?
Thank you for typing those out!!!
😅Thank you.
Love means correction at times. A true loving parent, corrects their child. A friend corrects another friend when they are doing something that can harm them or someone else. God says He corrects those He loves!!! We can't let those we love do whatever they want without telling them the TRUTH!!!!
Iron sharpens iron
Pastor Mike, I cannot express how greatly you have positively influenced my walk with Christ. I am so blessed to have the privilege to study and grow in my relationship with Christ through your ministry. Thank you, glory to God.
Amen love this teaching
I second this!
Mike thank you so very, very much for this video. This video did a great job of making clear the distinction between Christianity and Progressive Christianity. I've tried to be an alarm to people who are not decerning but I lack the articulation to open their eyes . I hope all true Christians hear this to further their ability to defend the faith.
First, this is a really great episode. Your explanation regarding the "mechanics" of Progressive "Christianity" strike me as completely spot-on. I am about 15 minutes from the end of it and wanted to get my thoughts down before they flee from me.
What you are describing here is Gnosticism (I'm sure you know about that) and it was one of the earliest threats to Christ's church and as your talk indicates, remains so to this day and will not cease until Jesus returns.
Again, I appreciate this more than you know. Thank you!
That's a great point! One thing I think makes Progressive Christianity a mutation of Gnosticism is its truthmaking of stories about bodily pleasure. Since, I'm pretty sure, Gnosticism also rejected Jesus' humanity since they said good only comes from spiritual things. Perhaps the view of "material" has changed to be "the unenlightened past"?
I believe the so called Jesus seminar reignited interest in Gnosticism
Thank you for your teaching.. I have people in my life moving to progressivism and we need to talk openly about their concerns and truly answer them. It’s heart breaking.. but so is toxic religion.. so we need to keep our eyes on Christ. He is our anchor in so many windstorms.
In a word, it is "worldly." That's what I'm getting from what Mike Winger is saying. Going along with the crowd.
Yes. But it’s as easy as this, and this is a quote from Mike:
The answer to bad theology is not no theology, but good theology.
Progressivism is just another toxic religion. It destroys.
@Chumnley snoop I don't know what you're getting at.
This message cannot be spoken out enough, one of the more pervasive and destructive ideologies out there today.
I was into new age as you described. The Lord turned me back by allowing me to see actual demons over several years. He also convicted me about the way is NARROW and FEW find it. The way to destruction is WIDE. Also, the FIRST COMMANDMENT. These two obvious teachings brought me back to my first love Jesus Father and Holy Spirit. Thank you Lord🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Wow, at 52:15, the way commentator or pastor handled Rob Bell was gracious and accurate. The word isn't defined by our feelings but the truth that God has already spoken.
Yes, noted that too. Winsome, and standing on Truth.
Thank you so much for this message!
Love you and your Chris-centered content!
Thank you for tackling such a sensitive subject. My family has rejected me bc I did not comment when my granddaughter announced her engagement to her girlfriend. 😢. They say I have rejected her! Of course, I have not! I love my granddaughter.
On Facebook
When youre in a church with progressive its tricky and very very hard if u know the bible well. Its tormenting.
And when you speak up using scriptures they get offended
I'll be sharing this video all over.. God bless you. Subscriber from South Africa 🇿🇦
Not my usual jogging playlist, but thankful to learn while I burn (calories)
Lol - normally that clarification wouldn’t be necessary, but I guess in this context ..!
People need to hear this. Every single bit of it.
I haven’t been to church in years, but this is the closest I have been on a Sunday. I know it’s not the same but I think it helps. I like this pastor a lot
good pastors are few and far between, and finding a solid church is as well.
He is in my top 5 or so, especially for teaching. I'm so thankful that God has raised up fine men like this to teach and inspire us. Especially for those like me that, for whatever reason, don't have a home church presently.
For Sunday service, I really like Jack Hibbs' church. It's on a UA-cam channel REAL Life, and service times are 11, 1 and 3 ET..The church has is actually in CA, so Pacific zone is 8, 10, and 12.
The only difficulty I had with this teaching was it went quickly! Maybe cuz it’s the end of my day, but so many things were said in such a short time frame! I was trying to grasp them… I should probably just watch this again. 😊
Haven't listened to you in a while Mike...forgot how thorough your research is and how good of a teacher you truly are.
Never knew you had legs, I’ve only seen your upper body in your videos and the sermon recordings 😂
Lol 😆
! Same ! So surreal lol
@@888hereandnow ygggggggu
Loving someone doesnt mean validating, agreeing or coddling someone, or even telling them what they want to hear. Somtimes love is ugly, hard, and painful, but its whats right.
It's very strange that this video found me. I never heard of "Progressive Christianity" but, I wandered for 45+ years in what I called New Age Christianity. They sound similar. About 3 years ago I found a bible study group near me and have returned to "Every Age Christianity". Much of what you say here was my life experience. Keep doing the good work. God is calling us back out of Babylon. You show the error of our way quite plainly.
I'd love to know what you mean by "new age christianity", I got saved from the New Age recently, and I'm curious to know what you mean, Thanks!!
@@iusedtobeapsychic They generally teach "God is within us" and lots of love and much supernatural stuff which is more demonic than godly.
The hearts of man are desperately wicked.
This is such a sincere message of concern. It’s easy to talk down on the other camps, but this explains why their wrong, and what that means.
Certainly, there have been instances where the way a doctrine has been preached has been hurtful, not the doctrine itself. If I rail and scream and carry on and beat my five-year-old for playing in the street, that could be considered abusive and hurtful. If I instead tell her how much she means to me and how devastated I'd be if she got hurt and if needed calmly, and lovingly put her in a time-out, that would be a much better way to go about it. I'm learning, that it's the messenger that needs to change, not the message.
Seing Mike's whole body for the first time since following his content for more than a year and a half by now 😁🙄.
Anyway, greetings and much love from Namibia 🇳🇦.
Jackie Hill Perry has a great quotes about coming out of a homosexual semi-trans lifestyle to give her life to God/Jesus. She said the lifestyle was: “Choosing to allow your affections to define what goodness is…” and “Believing and feeling that my feelings should be authoritative over the word of God…” and finally she realized:”God wanted my obedience in spite of my affections.” She put what I figured out 20+ years ago into words perfectly. I also realized any lifestyle you choose over Jesus can be described this way too. Any sin.
Thank you for sharing this. I just had a conversation with a friend who is a young believer about how Jesus calls us to repent/pick up our cross and follow Him. The conversation revolved around why God wouldn't approve of same-sex couples and she really had a hard time understanding why God would want someone to not be in a loving same-sex relationship. I am firm in my belief about God's design for our sexuality, but I was challenged by her thinking and it has sharpened my ability to communicate God's design and what a narrow road we walk on when we follow Christ. It made me realize even more than ever that Christ sacrificed for our sin and we intern sacrifice our fleshly desires to repent and follow Him.
“Love doesn’t mean approval or agreement “ …great point!
Great breakdown - really enjoyed it and think it’s pretty spot on.
I’m a little skeptical about placing Greg Boyd in the same camp as Rob Bell, Richard Rohr, etc. While he does tend to reject a lot of evangelical ideas on some of the main issues, he always seems to have a high view of the Bible’s authority and infallibility. He sometimes makes distinctions which are hard to grasp at first, but the details are what matter, and I wouldn’t consider him a part of the progressive crowd.
Mike you absolutely nailed this -- what a well-articulated diagnosis and description of progressive 'Christianity'. May God open their eyes. Thanks!
@will smith Have you ever read the Word of God? It's the complete story of God's love for you. "If you love Me, keep My Commandments." (John 14:16-17) Keeping The Lord's commandments doesn't make you (your words) a "hatemongering conservative." Keeping His commandments is an act of love in response to all He has done for us. He loved us enough to die for us! The very LEAST we can do is keep His commandments. I wish you and yours all the best. Peace
@will smith IT USUALLY MEANS IF YOUR NOT CHRIST LIKE THEN YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING CHRIST’S COMMANDS! HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE MORE THAN ONCE? TWICE? THREE OR MORE TIMES? YEARLY FOR 14 YEARS?
IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE IN GOOD TIMES, BAD TIMES, SAD TIMES, AND HAPPY TIMES, THEN YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE GOOD WORKS OF CHRIST AND HOW TO EMULATE HIM! THE BIBLE I READ STATES TO GIVE UP WORLDLY THINGS, INCLUDING SJW, POLITICS, GREED, SELF-CENTEREDNESS, HATE, ETC….
“You say Jesus is all loving? He released my birds!” 🤣🤣🤣
I am listening to this as a mother of a gay son. What struggle our family has had! Our son was brought up being taught the Bible in conservative Evangelical churches. I want to tell those of you who were in the audience that your laughter sounds dirisive and is very hurtful. I have been a Bible-believing Christian for 61 years. I truly have always prayed that God would help me understand His Truth and not to be led astray. I am far from being a progressive Christian, but in all my years of begging God to make my son straight, He has not. My son went through terrible things and only by the grace and mercy of God is alive and well today. I just want to say that the light-hearted laughter accompanying Mike's teaching here IS NOT HELPFUL.
What you describe sounds painful and raw. I pray that you find God's comfort to be sufficient in your struggles. I had a cousin who struggled with homosexuality. I distanced myself from him because he didn't seem to be interested in the truth, only in justifying his behavior.I wish I had handled it differently because he later committed suicide. I don't know if he would have changed his mind, but at least I could have showed more compassion to him.
Don't listen to crap, They are ignoring pain and causing injury. We are not in the bronze age. They are trying to make people into something they are not. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.
They laugh because they are prideful and arrogant. Jesus derided the pharisees for following the traditions of man when he was accused of disobeying the law. That's right, the list of "sinful" activities in Leviticus in which is the only place in the Hebrew bible that condemns homosexuality. Folk honestly think God considered shellfish to be an abomination? Jesus laid down the law to the religious. And his command was to love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself. There is the expression "love covers a multitude of sins". Anything we do that is not loving other people is sin. Not disobeying a set of man made moral rules. The ten commandments have the same reasoning behind them, everything we are commanded not to do hurts other people. A loving sexual relationship between two men or women does no harm to anybody. Telling gay people they are sinners damned to hell is hurting people. It seems quite clear to me who the real sinners are. And they exhibit the traits of people not obeying Christ.. pride, arrogance, condemnation, intolerance. Satanists are obeying Christ more than the majority of Evangelical Christians and it should shame us all.