I think I will never really take a permanent stance on this issues. Some days I lean more toward some mysterious free will that we have to be saved some days I lean more toward Calvinist but the bottom line it doesn’t matter to me because your stance on this doesn’t save you. I know that I and no one else deserves to be saved from eternal condemnation. I’m just grateful that Jesus had mercy on me and that he died on the cross for me and that is the ultimate act of love. He is good and i trust Him. I trust I will never fully understand Him as long as I’m in this part of the world. If anyone is grappling with these issues i pray for you to come to terms that you will never ever fully understand the mind of God and that you be at peace with that.
Beautiful testimony and thank you you are right, he is all together lovely and other , we dont deserve salvation period, and yet he saved someone like me like you! Praise God he is enough we dont have to know everything.
not a really smart idea way to think. if a non believer in your household hears that the calvinistic way it'll make him less open to beliefe in christianity. The apostle paul would disagree with your attitude.
@deisel1016 True, but we who don't teach must be stewards of the word and be found faithful through discernment to the who do teach it. 2 Tim. 2:15 Otherwise, we fall for teaching that only please our ichy ears. 2 Tim. 4:3
If you just let the text teach you what ends up happening is it you end up with thousands of different protestant denominations that all disagree with each other
This makes so much sense! I thought I was saved and a Christian most of my life, first as a Jehovah's Witness and later as a New Thought adherent, and I had visited Christian churches and said the sinner's prayer, and even cried one time at a church service, vocally accepting Him. Nothing. Then one day, while at a new age music conference, after I had lost my voice for six days, in my desperation I truly called out in my thoughts (for I had no voice!) to Jesus, and vowed that if He brought my voice back, I would sing His praises every day. I forgave everyone who had wronged me. I asked sincerely for Him to forgive my sins and I gave my life to Him. BOOM. It happened. I was born again. I felt my sins, for the first time literally lift off my body. I felt cleansed of all my iniquity. Then over the next few weeks, He opened my eyes to sin as the scales fell off. I was in utter shock! It was both beautiful and terrible at the same time. But of course, it's the best thing that ever happened to me! I had been adopted as a child of God into His Kingdom! Praise God!
@Crim Sin Also, I kind of had to condense my story. In retrospect, it was lack of Biblical knowledge at the time, being steeped in new age teachings. I made the funny "bargain" the week before I was born again. The following week was when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. But I never forgot. I love singing His praises every day. Be blessed, brother.
@@vadinandez Just a small correction of theology You came into God's kingdom and became His child by being 'Born Again' John 3 (look up other Biblical references to regeneration and new birth). However. adoption referrers, not to becoming a child of God but to the time of our resurrection Romans 8:28. In Galatians 4 you will find in New Testament times it was the practice for a father to adopt his own natural son when he reached maturity. At this time he would start to share family or business responsibility. This is what our adoption will be about when we are conformed to the image of Christ we will be ready to be involved with our saviour in the administration of the age to come Ephesians 1:10. Many Christians are unaware of this as they are unfamiliar of this process of adoption practised in NT times. So glad to hear you found your way out of JWs.
I know I can't be saved unless I'm chosen and called and I know I can't be saved unless I'm willing to repent and believe. It is all of God so that He gets all of the glory.
@@theepicenter4106 well all that are drawn will be raised, and all that are called will be conformed to the image of His son. So does that also mean you believe everyone is raised, and that everyone is conformed to the image of His son? So everyone is save.... John 6:44 Rom 8:29
@@jeffnorton9875 i must admit im glad i said then only that "i believe." Meaning i wasnt sure. Because now, after much praying and Bible study, i am sure that NOT everyone is called and here's what it means... - God wants everyone to repent. 2 Peter 3:9 - Not everyone will repent. - God knows the future and knows who will repent. - He "calls" (or makes a path to Him) only for those whom He knows will repent.
@@theepicenter4106 Id be a careful with that. There is a one problem. The idea that God looks through time or sees into the future to see who will choose him and then makes his election based off of that means that God is acquiring information to base his decision and an all knowing God cannot learn. . "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you" John 15:16 Ephesians 1:4-5 Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will. HE didn't predestine us if that is what he saw was going to happen anyway by OUR decision. It was according to HIS will for us to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ. It gets weird when you say his will, adoption, and predestining was determined by mans decision because then you also have a problem with God no longer being omnipotent.
Thank you Pastor Mike for this very clear presentation of what I believe. I once attended a church where the Pastor was a hard core extreme Calvanist. That would have been ok except that he kept hammering, hammering, hammering most every week,, anyone who dared to believe differently. He also misrepresented what I believe like saying that people who think they had a choice in their salvation, just want to receive some credit for their salvation. As you pointed out, this is totally not true. Jesus did all the work and deserves all the credit. The Calvanist's say their view should give Christians peace. It did just the opposite to me. At that time, I was convinced that I was one of the "chosen" to be forever lost. The final straw was when i was waiting in line to talk with the pastor one week. I heard him "quote" 2 Peter 3:9 to the woman in front of me. He said, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any," and then he inserted the following 3 words; "of his people " then; "should perish but that all should come to repentance." Does he feel the Bible needs him to add words to make the meaning clear? It was at this point that I decided it was time for me to move on to another church.
FYI: 2Pet 3:9 has been mistranslated in two ways by KJV (primarily Arminian) translators: 1) "τινας" a Greek plural indefinite pronoun is used twice in this verse. It is rendered properly as, "some", for its first usage, but inexplicably rendered as singular indefinite, "any", in it second instance. 2) "βουλόμενός" (planning/intending/resolving) was rendered as "willing" This as resulted in conundrum: either everyone will be saved or God's will is thwarted Subsequent Arminian translations have attempted to "fix" this conundrum, by changing "willing" to "wanting" or "wishing", in order to maintain a universal possibility for universal salvation. The literal Greek text reads, "....not intending/planning some to perish....", which is "dripping" with Calvinist doctrines (a frequent characteristic of the Greek text, which is usually misleadingly translated by Arminian-biased translators, because much of the Greek text makes no sense to a, "Free-Will" believer, because it is dripping with the absolute sovereignty of God in all things, from who might believe, might confess (Rom 10:9), or who "might call upon the name of the LORD" (Rom 10:13), wherein Arminian translators often render Greek (God controlled) subjunctives as English (man-controlled) indicatives. The Arminian doctrine of "Free-Will" is inconsistent with an absolute sovereign God who will not share His glory with another (Is 42:8), particularly defiled sinners like us.
@@alanlietzke5738 so, would you agree that if the original text means "some" that to translate that as "any of his people" is also an interpolation and a change to what scripture literally says at face value?
While translating from one language to another, arbitrarily changing the number, case, or gender of nouns, pronouns, adjectives and participles, will often alter the intended meaning. The same applies to changing the tense, voice or mood of verbs. Moreover, deleted and inserted words should be avoided, or whenever used, should be clearly indicated, so that the reader can decide for themselves, if the "improvements" of the translator are consistent with the larger context, ESPECIALLY, with the Word of God, where each jot and tittle is never accidental. When variations in copies exist, the variation with the high chance of having been corrected is probably closest to the original.
KJV translaters were literally predestinationalists within the Catholic, Presbyterian, and Anglican streams. It was not translated by either arminians NOR traditionalists. @@alanlietzke5738
@@alanlietzke5738"or God's will is thwarted" uh yeah, God doesn't get everything He wants. He limits Himself on purpose for our sake. This is literally in every book of the Bible.
Agreed - "not many wise are called", and the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. To think we can explain predestination completely is arrogant, but we can stay with the scriptures in totality.
WickAndTallow I agree with you 100% at first I was sorta skeptical about this guy for whatever reason I had many videos ago but the more I listen to him I find myself loving his teachings and the grace with which he speaks! This is what a Christian looks like!
WickAndTallow, I agree and What I really like about Mike is that he always seems to read from the text, which is the right thing, rather than reading into it. As to the specific issue, there's a tension that seems to make it impossible to completely choose one side of the argument over the other. There's an element of the truth to both and that's fascinating.
Jason Ruediger I feel the exact same way. I was being a complete jerk about my differences with a reformed buddy of mine until I realized I was the one causing division; not necessarily the theology. There’s so much we can agree on and instead of focusing on those points I was building up Calvinist straw man and burning it down. I realize he is as convicted to certain elements of Calvinism as I am to traditionalism. That was mind blowing for me to think about. He is genuinely taking the text and drawing out Calvinistic theology and I’m doing the same but at opposite spectrums. In the end we are both brothers in Christ assured in our salvation by faith in Christ. Once I jumped that hurdle I instantly quit being the little offended cry baby during our weekly bible studies. It is indeed interesting how both sides are reflected in the text and I can’t seem to drink enough scripture to be 100% convinced of either.
Edward Peters : You’re not genuinely deriving “traditional” theology from the Bible because what you call “traditional” isn’t really traditional” but modern man/centered philosophy; evangelicals and especially Baptists were traditionally Calvinists and the Bible doesn’t teach your man-centered philosophy; you read it into the text. But it’s good that you’re softening in your man-centered philosophy.
Such a good video! So grateful to learn from fellow Christian UA-camrs who are so much more knowledgeable than I am. Free Will, sovereignty, election, and predestination all existing side by side - refreshing to see!
Free Will. Really? Give me passages in context that say we have Free Will when it comes to being regenerated or saved. There are NONE who seek God, no not one. Rom.3:10-17 John 6:44
@@tstjohn777 You're conflating free will with following clues. Free will does not mean that God doesn't have ultimate authority nor does it mean that God has no influence, nor does it mean that God cannot make exceptions when we stubborn humans are overly blind. It literally took divine intervention for Paul to come to Christ, but that does not mean God forced Paul to accept Jesus, it just means that he was supplied with undeniable evidence as part of God's calling. If there is no real free will, then there is no point in creation being what it is. God could have a lot less unnecessary issues and problems with humanity if we're just robotic bags of meat. Isaiah 55 6-7 Galatians 5 13-17
@teeemm9456 , no, I'm not conflating. @teeemm9456 not robots, just humans with a genetic predisposition to be and act a certain way. That's why Saul responded the way he did, even David, Joseph and his brothers, and Pharoah, to name a few. Everything is for God's glory and to reveal He is Potentate and nothing man can do to trawrt it. Rom 9:17, even the context of this chapter clearly shows everything is what "GOD" is doing As to you quoted verse. As I say to everyone who refutes truth. Context is everything. In the Isa. quote, if you would have continued beyond those two verses. You would have read, " For My thoughts are not your thoughts. Not My ways your ways, "says the LORD. For as the heavens are above the earth. So are is telling them what He is doing higher than your ways. And My thoughts than your thoughts. So go back and pay attention to what is written and how it's written. God in His sovereignty and providence is doing as He pleases. You can even go to Isa. 46 and see the context that even in verse 3-5, especially 9-10. As to Gal. the Greek word in reference to freedom. Is Strong's Number - G1657 Greek: ἐλευθερία Transliteration: eleutheria Pronunciation: el-yoo-ther-ee'-ah Definition: From G1658; freedom (legitimate or licentious chiefly moral or ceremonial):. So, the freedom we're called to is freedom from immorality. See verse 1. Again, context is everything. He is telling us we are in a new law. The law of the Spirit. Again, in Rom. 9 it says," it's not of him who "WILLS" or of him who runs but of God who calls. Man's will cannot stand in God's way and purpose. No matter how much he wills. If you want to call that free will, have at it. To make it even clearer for you. Rom.9 says, "18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory" So as you can see God doesn't have an issue with long suffering. Or as you said hardship.
Amen! Absolutely the greatest and most COMPLETE explanation I have ever heard in my 45 years of being a Christian. Thanks for the hard work that you put into this.
@@elunico13 I think that he means that this is the first time he's ever heard such a complete explanation of Calvinism and Arminianism and how it relates to the teachings in the Bible, and I have to agree. In fact, I've never heard a sermon on the topic at all before and didn't know who Calvin or Arminian were until my sister just started going to a Calvinist church. The church that I've been attending for the past 30 years teaches the same doctrine as pastor Mike here, but they never put a label on it, they just taught out of the Bible. So I went online to figure out what it means and this is the best explanation that I've heard. In conclusion, I don't follow any one man's interpretation of the Bible, I follow God. I believe that the Bible is the word of God, so I believe that it is correct, even if some of it sounds more Calvinist and some sounds more Arminianist. I'm not sure why people had to label different interpretations and make people choose sides. Just believe the Bible.
@@commenter5901 That's awesome. I'm glad you got a chance to listen to this teaching. As a soldier in the Army I move around a lot and forced to attend churches in different states, cpuntries with different beliefs. Calvinism or the doctrines of Grace are only a small portion of what is called reformed theology, coming out of the Reformation of 1517. That's when there was a great separation from the Catholic Church. And The crux of the issue that separated us was Sola Fide. That we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. I know what you mean about "I believe the Bible". So do I, but remember we're part of the larger body of Christ made up of both present, future and those in the past. We're not the first ones to ever take the Bible seriously and much can be learned by our Christian Brothers n Sisters from hundreds of years ago. Church history and the confessions they wrote. I don't sit in my room alone reading the Bible coming up with my own interpretations. I do read, but highly consider the doctrines of others in the body of Christ, keeping in mind that the scriptures are about God's redemptive plan to reconcile us to Himself through Christ by believing the gospel, which is the power of God to save all who believe.
I know this is 3 yes. Later, but a Orthodox Presbyterian pastor has tried to go over some of this and even given me a book. It seems like " splitting hairs" as one could say God knows ahead of time who will and won't truly follow him. It's confusing if you think of God as omniscient and omnipresent. Past,present and future reside with him continuously! I am turned off by the term elect but I also have never liked to refer to myself as saved, are the two terms any different? Also, I don't mind infant baptism as whole households were baptised and some of those could've been infants. You don't need to be baptized to be saved. I hope someone can answer these.....In John Jesus said you did not choose me but I chose you. So, how much is our free will? So confusing!
@@KM-zn3lx In John, Jesus said "I choose you" but He was speaking about His purpose. He didn't say "I chose you to go to heaven." Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just for some. God says He knew us before the foundation of the world. Can you imagine a loving God who decides before we are ever born which ones He wants to burn in hell for eternity? They also believe that murder, rape, etc are pre-ordained by God! The Word tells us over and over to humble ourselves. He tells us that He sets before us life and and death, and tells US to chose! So, if God chooses whoever He wants, why should we humble ourselves? Why should we chose? Calvinism takes all of the responsibility off of man and puts it all on God. So we are not free and are not responsible for our actions and decisions. That is so unbiblical. People who follow Joseph Smith are Mormons, those who follow Charles Russell are Jahovah's Witnesses, and those who follow John Calvin are Calvinists. We should only follow Christ and be Christians. Blessings ☺️❤️🙏
This is so well presented and backed up by scripture. I have never believed in Calvinism but this is one of the best studies I've heard. Thank you so much for the study and effort you've put into this. God bless you
24 down, 26 videos to go of the Romans playlist! Very refreshing and i am learning a lot! Romans contains so much information and valuable lessons. Thank you Mike for spending so much time and efforts in these studies. God bless you and your family.
The best video for my struggles ... man pastors I gave read over 120 books on God, doctrine and history read Scripture cover to cover 15 times different translations and HAVE to say you are the best teacher w/o a doubt thank you and God bless you.
Here are my thoughts on how we might reconcile predestination through God's choice of an elect and our ability to make a free-will decision to accept or deny Him. We have to realize that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. Omnipresent has always been understood to mean not just everywhere, but also everywhen. I think we really need to break the temporal aspect of that away from the location aspect and make it its own category: Omnitemporal. We very often forget that God is not bound by time. God created time. With this in mind. God knew the choice you would make before He created you. He knew the choice you would make before He created anything. Thus, there is no need to reconcile your free-will choices with the Will of God. He is present in all times. He knows every beginning and every outcome. God knowing what you will choose, outside of the restrictions of time, does not conflict with your ability to make the choice within time. Our confusion with this perceived conflict stems from our inability to understand an existence outside of time. God has no such difficulty.
We do need to reconcile our free will with His because we did in fact sin within time and he chooses to reconcile us within time by his ordnance which occurs within history.
Ye, I imagine it like, God sees the universe as a static, not moving 4D structure. Like every moment of our universe is put together to make the 4d structure (since God is outside of time and can see the universe from this outside perspective). And our free will is how our individual souls shape our 4D structure, but God can see it all and makes everything work out in the end.
God chooses and man chooses. God doesn't choose and man doesn't choose. Yet, God doesn't just conform to man's choice/foreseen faith. Wrap your mind around that one...
You are smart I can tell , you ever read that God is God in the Highest Dwells in unapproachable Light Because he is Light but good news ! We can through Jesus our Mediator through him we can come freely with confidence to the Omniscient Omnitemporal One as you comment cause Jesus fills all things in earth and in heaven . He made the worlds all things visible and invisible were made by him The Epistle of Paul to the Colossians is where I recognized the word Omniscient .Glory to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ .enjoyed your words , thanks they are packed with life .Go for the Gold ! Of the calling of God ..
This particular video is why I started watching him regularly. Very deep and thorough analysis of the views giving equal credit to all ideas good or bad all the while refusing to step away from the standpoint of what the scripture is saying!
I like your humble perspective on this issue. God is sovereign, Even and especially of our salvation. We can be thankful. This realization brings me to my knees.
Excellent explanation, Mike... clear, thoughtful, and Biblical! Been battling the 'either/or" approach to this topic fo years. Im binge-watching your channel and am very impressed! God bless! Keep up the good work. -Rev Kev
Love all of your teachings(so far), finding your thought in doctrine accurate and your spirit the spirit of Christ, so refreshing and encouraging. No hype just truth in a humble spirit.
I appreciate your balanced approach and you’re the first Bible thinker I’ve seen/heard that maintains such a balanced approach. The fact that God is absolutely sovereign and we have the ability to make decisions on our own doesn’t conflict at all in my thinking. There are many biblical examples of God using someone as a tool and holding them accountable simultaneously.
Just discovered this UA-cam channel....sound doctrine, Word centered and the whole counsel of God....so refreshing and clear in a day where there are so many seducing voices for itching ears....Oh that we would let the Word of Christ dwell in us richly and continually be filled with the Spirit...then let Him live His truth and love through us!! Highly recommend all the videos I have watched so far....
About 27 minutes into this, and already Mike has help me to see the issue in ways that I'd never considered before, already has brought to my attention phrases (e.g. "in him") that I'd never before considered in mulling over the issue.
This is one of the best biblical descriptions that I’ve heard on the topic. Pastor Winger was very humble and respectful to the authority of Scripture and laid it out using a hermeneutical approach, which is how it should be done. Thank you, brother Winger. I pray that many will be helped by listening to this sermon so that they can be free from false ideologies and can proclaim the Gospel to EVERY creature, just as Jesus commanded all those who will follow Him. Mark 16:15.
Kathy Shearer, I think you lost of the scripture there. "For it is by grace [male] you have been saved [male], through faith [female] and this [gender neutral, singular] is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"
Not only does what you’re teaching make sense due to your diving into scripture, backing it up with scripture and using helpful analysis, it simply MELTS away this CRIPPLING anxiety I have around assurance of salvation! Sitting under the Calvinist teaching is like a milestone hung over my shoulders and this is setting me free so it has to be truth ~John 8:31-32 Thank you Mike, continue in His Spirit and be blessed
Once again congratulations on your bravery and humility in presenting this topic solely based on Christian instead of interpreting scripture based on predisposed assumptions.
I found your preaching after looking up Melchizedek and I'm so happy I did. I'm someone who does wrestle with predestination and free-will and after sitting under preaching for an "effectual call" i got lost in Google trying to figure things out. Thanks for your humble and great teaching.
Thank you for explaining a very confusing topic! God is such a mystery and I know we humans cannot understand Him completely while we are on Earth; however, the more I study, the more confused I get. Your positive approach and your humor are refreshing! Bless your ministry!🙏💞
Excelente point, it opened my mind to understand, the husband and wife it's like the Christ and the Church, we choose each other but He loved us first. Spot on.
Great points. Keep in mind the “world” in 1john 2:2 is the same “world” in romans 3 that is guilty before God. The whole world is guilty, and Christ died for the same world.
I agree for we have already established that Both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. The world is Jews and Gentiles. If Jesus died for Judas Judas would be in heaven. You don't have Eternal Life bc you Believe you have Eternal Life bc God died for your sins. God died for us so that we would live with him 1 Thessalonians 5:9 The purpose of Christ death was to save us from hell. It is bc Jesus died for us that we live in Heaven we merely enter into that Gift reserved for us by Faith. In other words we're sanctified for salvation through his Death I lay down my life for my sheep. And we receive that Gift through faith. But the goats on Jesus's left hand they do not believe because God didn't die for them. Matthew 25 Jesus told the Pharisees you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. Only Jesus is sheep in other words those who He laid down his life for believe.
Thank you for pointing that out. I've actually heard from certain POV's that world doesn't really mean world and all doesn't really mean all. 🤔 Sometimes (definitely not every time) the Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it. So yes world means world and all means all.
Spoken with complete grace and truth!! 1 Corinthians 3:4 “For when one says, “I follow Paul,(Calvinism)” and another, “I follow Apollos,(Arminianism)” are you not being merely human?” Christ Jesus is our foundation!!!
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I do see many do follow a guy named Calvin, Though they don't realize it, I have been researching this debate for a couple weeks, and honestly there are many videos on the Calvinist side that really just say clearly this is the truth and everyone who disagrees is on thing or another, Saw one yesterday there was a whole panel, asked what is the dif between Calvinism and hyper Calvinism his answer was don't ask a Armenian because he is ignorant and does not understand the basics and a hyper Calvinist is lost his mind so only a Calvinist is in his right mind I mean he went on longer in more depth but there it is this attitude I see over and over again, I am watching a movie called the Calvinist or Calvinist or something like that kind of made it out like everything really started at the reformation and from there the reformed church split between Calvin and Armenian and the Armenian side fell into all false doctrine and Calvinism is the beacon of truth, Even Macarthur who I love his teaching mostly but on this he says if you are not Calvinist either you really are but don't realise it or will become a universalists eventually
I sat through a TULIP orientation at a church I was attending recently. Much of what the pastor said just didn't seem to make sense to me. When the time came for Q&A I pressed him about almost every point he made. I was told it was a Calvinist church but had no idea what that meant until after the TULIP presentation for newcomers. I really appreciate your work on this subject. Your presentation is straightforward and easy to follow. I've moved on to a different "non-Calvinist" church where I am completely happy.
I was saved by reading the Word. I just KNEW that what I was reading was true. I didn't choose, I just believed as I read and I was born again instantly! My mother, however, confessed that she'd made a mess of her life and asked the Lord to take control and guess what? She was born again! Neither of us have ever been The same from that moment on. The outcome was the same, even though the journeys getting there were different. The take away? God is SOVEREIGN.
I loved this. It is really labour intensive to grasp these theological debates and you've done a great job Mike. Cheers for your work mate, and I hope that I will give the scriptures the same justice that you do when I encounter these tricky conversations.
Having freedom of choice makes me feel much more grateful to God. Because it makes me realise that the Creator of the Earth and the whole universe is so tender, merciful and loving that He risks Himself being rejected. Rejection is painful, especially when you love that person so deeply. His love for us is just unfathomable. Who am I to reject this wonderful God?
as nice as that sounds that creates a small , God who is hoping someone accepts his gift of salvation. This does not deplict the God of the Bible. whether we like it or not God is sovereign in everything, including salvation.
So thankful for your ministry! These videos have been very helpful to me as I navigate these tough topics. Your outlook is refreshing as it is not divisive at all. You encourage people to study the Word for what it says and affirm that whatever "side" we land on we are still brothers and sisters in Christ and we can love each other accordingly. In my study I have come to many of the same conclusions as you and I thought I was some weird person that didn't fit anywhere, so I am thankful to know I'm not alone.
God Almighty being God Almighty knows all things... before we're born he knows what we'll do and how we'll choose. He died for all, but all won't accept that free gift. I start with this premise, and it always ends here too!
@@ReachOutToWilliam 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
The question is how does he know w all things? Because he sees into the future which no scripture states, or he knows the future because He works all things according to his will? Ephesians’
@@kiwisaram9373 A Calvinist knows they’re saved by their desire to seek God. It shows the Holy Spirit working within. Over time this desire produces fruit which is traces of the Holy Spirit sanctifying you. God bless, SM
I really like how you delivered this without slandering those who bielive differently than you on this issue, at the end of the day we all have to continue learning from each other as the body of CHRIST because no one is wise in this journey to heaven, may GOD help us all to stay humble and straighten our walk with the LORD.
Love Beyond the Fundamentals channel. He explains calvinism so awesome. I'm sure you know of him. I love your studies Mike. Thank you for taking the time to help so many.
I have to disagree with Beyond the Fundementals. I don't like calvinism, but I don't believe that Calvinists get any of the gospel wrong. They believe that trusting in Jesus and his sacrifice for our sins is the only way to Heaven. If you believe in Him you are truly saved. They don't get that wrong.
My oldest grandson is reformed Presbyterian and I was born again into an evangelical church back in the late 70’s and it seems as if we have very little in common. He is an intellectual and that makes it difficult, as well. We can’t or don’t engage in talking about the Lord very often, which I do a lot when talking to other believers. Help! It is so distressing to me, I feel he thinks he is so above me, spiritually and he has very little experience because his faith is so dry and void of the spirit, from what I can see. I’m not trying to be above anyone, but having walked with the Lord for over 42 years, GOD has been so good to me, so faithful, loving and has rescued me and protected me miraculously, but sharing some of this seems so futile. And disbelieved and probably even ridiculed. I’m at a loss, and from what I’ve seen, that RP group seems spiritually dead, no life, Christ’s abundant life, at all.
I truly believe that there is both God choosing us and us also choosing Him. Its both. God chooses or we choose. You should not purely camp your theology as "I am a strict Calvinist" or "I am a strict Arminianist". I see this evidently through how people expain differently how they came to know God. "He knocked on the door and I welcomed Him", "I was at my lowest point in life and decided to read the Bible and go to church and was convinced that there is no other way, so I knocked on God's door and He welcomed me." In my case I went to God. I asked Him to prove He was real. I chose to pursue Him. He in return chose to pursue me. I had the free will to do so and God was faithful to this and heard my earnest cry. Seems as though it is truly both working together in many cases, God choosing, and or us choosing. Is God capable of operating through strictly either? Yes because He's God. If you disagree with this or another person's theology, at the end of the day this debate does not and should not divide us as the Body of Christ. We agree on "90%." We should place our focus on that. The other "10%" is held in consideration. It's a healthy consideration and great discussion. A great conversation which shouldn't divide us. We are ONE.
Great video. It takes humility to think about things and stumble over stuff that you can't understand fully. Great sermon Brother. I stumble a slightly different way but I know we are brothers :-)
@@smokingcrab2290 If God calls, ensure the call is answered, teaches and leads through the Holy Spirit, ensures you cannot lose your salvation then the scriptures can be much shorter because the admonitions, warnings, and exhortations could be left out. In addition, so could doctrine since God is doing everything,
No one can convince me that I wasn't predestined to be confused about these different views. But, admittedly, I am confused about things that I don't understand. Thank the Lord for faith!
Hey Mike, "you can't be there" Classic!! Ive been told the same thing. I just wanted to thank you for using the scriptures to explain the scripture. When dealing with others regarding my stance on exactly what you just explained they referr back to what man says or has written and that always carries a bias. Though the writtings are great its still lends to one side. I found that most need the approval of someone "smarter" to help affirm the position. Lets just use the bible. The bible accurately explains itself and there does exist a middle ground "Christ and Him crucified." I believe in predestination and election but im not a Calvinist nor am i an Arminion but rather one "of the way" just a follower of Christ and am eternally grateful for His transforming power. Keep it up. We can disagree on secondary stances but on primary we have to agree. Be blessed brother.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom. 3.10-12)
This is great poetry but it is not literally true. David, who wrote these words, also said “I sought the Lord and he answered me” (Ps. 34:4). People like David have always sought the Lord. In context, Paul is speaking about the Jews who sought to be made righteous through the law (see Rom. 2:17). He is saying that our righteousness falls short of the Lord’s righteousness (Rom. 3:21-23). Compared to God, “there is none righteous.” We all need the righteousness that comes through faith to those who believe (Rom. 3:22)
Thank you, I just prayed about this , and the Holy Spirit reminded me of you. I searched for "Free Will Mike Winger" and found this. This has brought me great peace, God Bless you.✝️
you do not seem to understand that the free will doctrine says we cannot attain faith unless we are DRAWN, not forced. Forcing someone to be your bride is Rape. God is not a rapist.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. God draws all, most resist.
Many people in the church today are clueless and in a state of great confusion regarding what true Biblical predestination is and because of Calvinism's great influence in the churches, they will fall back on Calvinism's twisted definition that has been forcefully imposed into many seminaries, Bible colleges, theology textbooks, dictionaries, churches, and church constitutions for centuries. True Biblical predestination takes place AFTER a person comes to faith in Christ. The Christian is predestinated for 3 things which takes place in the future. True Biblical predestination ONLY applies to those that are saved. 1) They are predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST - Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 15:49 - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Philippians 3:21 - Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. All saved people will be like Christ. We shall be like Him - 1 John 3:2. This is a future aspect at the Rapture. 2) They are predestinated to have an INHERITANCE in heaven - Ephesians 1:11, John 14:2-4. Again, this is a future aspect. 3) They are predestinated to have GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODIES OF FLESH AND BONE, the REDEMPTION OF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES just like Jesus resurrected body described in Luke 24:39, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:23, Christ's newly resurrected glorified body is the prototype of what is to come for all saved Christians at the RAPTURE - 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 1 John 3:2. ================================================================================================================================================== There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination and election versus Calvinist "predestination" and "election." Calvinism will use the terms "predestination" and "election" interchangeably to mean the same thing, that is, salvation or damnation which is predetermined in eternity past by God. Calvinism has hijacked the words, "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" and "predestinate" and perverted the true definition. The true definition is NOT "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" for salvation. When the Bible talks about being "chosen" or "elect" or "election", it is referring to individuals that have willingly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are "chosen"/"elected" AFTER salvation for MINISTRY/ SERVICE/EVANGELISM. The true Biblical definition of ELECTION is that God elects/chooses those that are saved who willingly believed in the simple gospel of John 3:16 for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM. Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mark 16:15-16 - 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. The below are examples of God CHOOSING/ELECTING saved people for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM: 1) God CHOSE the Israelites, the Jewish nation to be His chosen people. The Jews are God's ELECT - Deut 7:6, 14:2, 1 Kings 3:8, Psalms 33:12, 106:5, Isaiah 43:10, 45:4, 65:9, 22 Matthew 24:22, 31 Mark 13:20, Luke 18:7, Romans 9:11, 11:28, 2 Tim 2:10, 1 Peter 2:4. 2) God CHOSE Jesus to be the chief cornerstone - 1 Peter 2:4, 6. God chose Jesus to be the Messiah - Isaiah 42:1-4, 49:7, Matt 12:18, Luke 9:35, 23:35, John 1:34, and was chosen to die on the cross for ALL mankind - Matt 12:18, 1 Peter 2:4. 3) Jesus CHOSE 12 men to be His disciples - Luke 6:13, John 6:70, John 13:18, John 15:16, 19, Acts 1:2. God CHOSE Matthias to replace Judas Iscariot - Acts 1:24-26. 4) Saul of Tarsus who became Paul was CHOSEN by Jesus to be the apostle to the Gentiles - Acts 9:15, 13:2, 22:14-15, Galatians 2:8. 5) Simon Peter was CHOSEN by God to bring the gospel message to Cornelius and his family - Acts 10:1-48, Acts 15:7. Simon Peter was CHOSEN also to be the apostle to the Jews - Galatians 2:8. 6) God CHOSE Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and to the Promised Land - Numbers 16:5-6. 7) God CHOSE Aaron and the tribe of Levi to be the priestly line - Numbers 17:5, 1 Sam 2:28, 2 Chronicles 29:1. God chose priests from the tribe of Levi to minister before Him in the temple and would be paid by the tithes of the people - Deut 18:5-8, 21:5, 1 Chronicles 15:2 8) God CHOSE Abraham - Nehemiah 9:7, God CHOSE Isaac and Jacob - Psalms 135:4, Isaiah 41:8, Ezekiel 20:5, and CHOSE Judah - 1 Chronicles 28:4, Psalms 78:67, to be in the line of Messiah. 9) God CHOSE David to replace King Saul and to be in the line of Messiah - 2 Samuel 6:21, 1 Kings 8:16, 1 Chronicles 28:4, 2 Chron 6:6, Psalms 89:3. 10) God CHOSE Solomon to be king after his father David - 1 Chronicles 29:1. 11) God CHOSE Mary and Joseph. Mary, the mother of Jesus - Luke 1:30, 42-45, 48. Joseph, the husband of Mary - Matthew 1:20. 12) God CHOSE Jerusalem to be His forever chosen city - Deut 15:20, Deut 16:2, 15, 1 Kings 8:44, 11:13, 14:21, 2 Kings 21:7, 23:27, 2 Chron 6:6, 34, 12:13, 33:7, Nehemiah 1:9, Psalms 132:13, Zechariah 3:2. 13) The Jewish Christians scattered in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, were the CHOSEN sojourners whom Peter wrote to and addressed them as the "ELECT" - 1 Peter 1:2.
Ugh I'm probably in the minority in the comments but I think when you brought up dilemmas in the Calvinistic interpretations of certain passages I think it totally overlooks the greater dilemmas caused in NOT rendering it that way. i.e. if the Lord "bought" these people in Peter, on what grounds would their condemnation be? I DO NOT see Christ's sacrifice as being hypothetical or merely making salvation "possible" but that redemption (purchasing) ACTUALLY occured. It is unthinkable to me to see God condemning sinners for whom Christ died. Punishing sin TWICE, once in the son and again in the sinner. I believe any rendering of a passage that forces this conclusion is patently UNBIBLICAL.
Sovereignty and Free will. I love the way these thoughts and ideas make peace one day and then the next nope. Praise God for the Word. Now let us pray for understanding, wisdom and love to poor from the Bible.
Long long ago a book was written, it was called “the lambs book of life “and in that book names were written, and of those names none were lost , THEY were all saved , and given eternal life.....
Well handled. Like you, I naturally accepted what the Scriptues say on "both sides of the argument" without a struggle, but had to make an either/or choice when pressured by the Calvinests who claimed I was Arminian (which I had not heard of before that). After earnestly searching Scripture for my decision I had to conclude that I was a CalMenian. I explain my answer with the quantem question; Is light a particle or a wave? The answer is; "Both," it all depends on how you look at it.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr “A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day before the Lord”. It’s a paradox, not a conflict, and the Bible is littered with many such examples.
@@fidelamoah9115 It says "like". A decade to an 80 year old doesn't feel the same to a 3 - 13 year old either. A day to us or 1,000 years to us doesn't feel the same to an eternal God. 1,000 years to us is a long time. To God, it is nothing.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr you’re missing the point. God’s ways aren’t according to our ‘logic’, He’s beyond logic. If logic were to explain God then He can never exist.
@Jonathan Soko please tell me as you claimed "But with God's sovereignty comes predestination" . What is the purpose of God's predestination? is it some to eternal life and some to eternal death as taught by Calvinism.
I attended a church that was Calvinistic several years ago. Up until that time I hadn't heard Calvinism taught. I heard of Calvinism, but I didn't know their theology. It actually rocked my faith. I still struggle with things from that teaching. If predestination from the Calvinist point of view is true. Then that means that no matter what I do, if I'm predestined by God, I eventually will be saved before I die. So, if that's the case, who cares how I live before I die. If I'm predestined then I can live an unholy and immoral life and I'll still go to heaven, because I'll be saved before I die. If I'm not predestined and I try to live a moral and holy life then still go to hell. So, whats the point of trying to please God if you're going to end up in hell anyway. Why not live a worldly life? Obviously, I don't believe this. And, Mike does a great job refuting Calvinism. One of the things I got out of this message is because of John 3:16, if I choose God, He chooses me; like my wife and I chose each other. That's free will and election (predestination).
There is a flaw in the way you're understanding Calvinism. If you're predestined by God and therefore, saved by the Holy Spirit, you can't live a life that is immoral and sinful even if you wanted to. Just as your faith was given by grace through God, your sanctification is directed by the Holy Spirit and you will ultimately change for the better. If that doesn't happen, you will have to question whether you're truly saved.
@@lightdk6321 What is there to question? According to Calvinism, he's either saved or he isn't, and there is nothing he can do about it. If he lives a life that is immoral and sinful, or lives a perfect sinless life, it's because God determined he would, and he can do no other. Calvinism is a hopeless system that removes any meaning from everything.
@@peterfox7663 your view of Calvinist is wrong. Calvinist is true from God's point of view. But it's different when looking from mans perspective. As man, we are required to have faith, pray always, seek grace, overcome sin, overcome the love of the world, preserve to the end, etc.... The Calvinist doctrine changes absolutely nothing about salvation. It only gives Him all credit by claiming our very desire to be saved comes solely from Him.
@@michaeltorah4002 I'm not sure how you are able to know God's point of view other than what He tells us in the Bible. And what I see in the Bible shows Calvinism to be false.
@@michaeltorah4002You are right in a manner of speaking - Calvinism doesn't change how salvation comes about, at least not on the very surface - a person needs to believe to be saved. However that's where the similarities end, and Calvinism turns the salvation on its head because it posits God decided who will believe and who will not rather than belief being a choice available to everyone.
Amen Sir, we cannot comprehend Gods intelligence, we can only trust and just follow his way. Thanks for preaching the truth that unified churches, not dividing. God bless you!
I grew up Dutch Reformed, was in a charismatic church for a couple of years, then Baptist and in February this year God placed me back in the Reformed church where I’m an elder. I don’t subscribe to all the ‘teachings’ and frankly find discussions about divisive things tiring and deal with them privately in my relationship with God unless the Holy Spirit leads me differently. Thank you for sharing your enlightening videos.
With everything we differ in, it is Christ who is the center of our faith. As long as we are untited in who He is and what He's done and surrender to that, we can be united in Faith. This unity is what makes us family. Every family has disagreement, yet they always remain family.
You are so right Mike Winger. We don't have to find a one way solution whether GOD chooses us or we chooses his offer ...Thank You for this great teaching. Blessings from Germany
I just have to say that I experienced providential occurrences that was part of my receiving faith. If God did not manifest Himself to me I would not have faith to believe. I did not believe but I received both objective and subjective evidence and I came to believe. For me the faith to believe was God's gift to me.
Ted Bates, you said faith to believe was God's gift meaning faith is the gift of God. But that is not true as correct bible interpretation method is reading its context, context and context meaning reading through Eph1, 2 and 3 in order to get the true meaning of whether "faith is the gift of God"? The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is focusing on man’s salvation found in Christ. “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (1:7). The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (1:11). After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (1:13). Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (2:5). Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (2:13). Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (3:7). Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Ephesians 2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. These two verses thoroughly document how a person is saved, not how a person believes. Paul was not giving an exposition on faith in his letter to the Ephesians. Salvation was his focus. Faith is mentioned as the mode by which salvation is accepted. Salvation is through faith. Just as water is received into a house in twenty-first-century America through a pipeline, a sinner receives salvation through obedient faith. The main focus of Paul’s message in Ephesians 2:8-9 was salvation (the living “water that springs up into everlasting life”-cf. John 4:14), not the mode of salvation. Faith is not a direct gift from God given to some but not others. Rather, as Paul wrote to the church at Rome, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Faith in Christ as the Son of God is only found in those who have first heard the Word of God, and then believed (cf. John 20:31). Therefore,, faith is not the gift of God as you claimed. Thank you.
@@93556108 Romans 12:3, "For I say, through the grace that is given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
@@93556108 In an earlier comment to Ted Bates, I understood you to say that faith is not the gift of God. A scripture came to mind and I thought I would share it. Romans 12:3 mentions that God gives every man a measure of faith and Hebrews 12:2 mentions that He is the author of our faith. It stands to reason that since God created everything, that would include our faith. Also, if faith was our own and not God's, we would be stealing glory from Him when we praise Him (as we would also glorify ourselves for having faith).
Jacob Arminius theory on God's election: "i choose, whichever one of you is gonna choose Jesus..." Ephesians 2:1-5 NKJV And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, [2] in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, [3] among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. [4] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [5] even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Dead men cannot respond to anything. But i do appreciate the respectful approach in addressing a very important doctrine. God bless.
I think you stopped reading. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith". Note the Faith part there. Also if you want to play stupid Calvinist word games, that scripture ONLY applies to the particular church he was writing to. Since it says "you".
Great teaching Mike! I try to have fellowship with Calvinists but sooner or later they are attacking people like Greg Laurie and Billy Graham saying they’re false teachers etc. Does anyone else find they are able to have continual fellowship with a Calvinist where these problems don’t come up? God Bless.
I’m a reformed believer and I never attacked anyone…. Why do you say they.. I don’t like those Calvinist as much as the next guy… but I truly love John Calvin’s writings even though he was wrong on a lot of things. I am friends with non Calvinist and we have an amazing time together doing international missions.
I believe every denomination has bad fruits… and yes us Calvinist seem to be a little more harsh then others.. but we are not perfect just like everyone else… only Jesus is perfect and He is the only one I follow.
Mike, I am so glad I found your channel. I have watched several teachings in two days and finally feel like I have found someone who is honestly interested in "Rightly dividing the word of truth." I've gone thru 4 years of terrible personal upheaval and while I have stayed in prayer, my bible study and reading has suffered along with the situations in my life. I'd like to take a moment to encourage you that while you may not feel that "Calvanism vs Armenianism" is as important a subject as some other things that you have in line to teach on, this subject has been a source of fear to the point of complete terror for me. You see, I am one who wasn't chosen to play kickball on the playground, I was purposely misrepresented in a spelling contest when it came down to me and one other contestant. (That contestant would soon become my adopted sister.) At 10 yrs old, my life as second place or completely out of the competition was sealed with the adoption of my 10 yr old sister. We were like twins, but...She was prettier than I was, a better student, a star basketball player, (I didn't make the team...I was regional champ Gymnast all 4 yrs of high school, but gymnastics didn't "rate." She was home-coming queen, Most likely to succeed...everything, I grew up in her shadow. I completely love and adore her...everyone does. I had a couple other serious situations that taught me that I was not good enough, not wanted, had no worth. Then, in college, I went thru a terrible situation with a girl that I now know was a witch. She prophesied my death and I was done. I had nothing to hang on to, I had no purpose, I was going to die. I had to quit school. I became severely clinically depressed for 4 yrs. Then, Jesus revealed Himself to me in a couple of different ways...one on a job and the other by the brother of a boy I'd known for a long time. This brother was a Christian and shared Christ with me. I wish I could say, I immediately was delivered from depression and low self-esteem, but at least I had HOPE. I had a life-line. I ended up marrying this Christian Young man, we have 3 children who I adore, but who are recently victims of a broken home. My husband of 25 yrs, divorced me for the "Gym/body-building life" and much younger women. This is the personal upheaval I first spoke of. Betrayed, told he never loved me, I was forsaken. As if my whole life was a lie. So, wow, I must have needed to get this out. Its been a tough go. My point is that since I was very little, I have believed that I was not good enough. When I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I didn't believe that He chose me back. I would joke that I was one who came in over the fence when He wasn't looking...that's really not funny, but its how I felt...like if He knew I was in the flock, he would throw me out. I don't have any overwhelming sin in my life, past or present. I've repented numerous times of anything past that is brought to mind, and I pretty much repent daily. So my feeling of not being good enough, is not related to a hidden sin...its just how I grew up. So, and I'll try to bring this long story to a close, but I do have two scriptures for you to chew on, that I didn't hear in this teaching. When I would read the Word, of course, I would get stuck on all the scriptures about election. Never having been chosen, and the one, most magnificent God-centered covenant I ever entered into, was broken and again, I was not good enough...never had been. So scriptures about election really, really frightened me, to the point where I did not want to read the Bible. However, one night I was praying and asking the Lord about this subject. I'm not going to say "He said to me." but somehow, the concept of a football game was imparted to me. God knew the end from the beginning, so He knows who is going to win the game and He joins in things like calling plays and cheering for team He knows who will win. It was incredibly simple (maybe I'm incredibly simple). He didn't go into whether He also helped the losing team even tho He foreknew the winners...I think the Lord just gave me what I needed. The next night our worship team (my husband was worship leader and bass player...assistant pastor and youth pastor), was getting together to "Jam" with Calvary Fellowship's worship team. I was just sitting around, when the Calvary pastor came and sat across from me, he could tell I was unhappy. I told him I was battling with the idea of election, and he said, "Well, I always think of God's election kind of like watching a football game....." and proceeded to complete the thought that I had or that I was "given." Either way, it seemed like a Word for me. A little miracle. Now, then, there are two scriptures which also helped. The first one is OT Isaiah 56:3 "Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord, say 'Surely the Lord will forget me.'" I just looked it up, and didn't find those exact words, I think I probably memorized it about 35 yrs ago from an NIV version, but still, what I see now seems to mean the same thing. So, in that, I see that Isaiah clearly has the concept of God's chosen people as his basic underpinning, but then, allows for a person, a foreigner, to come to the Lord of his own free will and have the assurance that the Lord will not "separate him from His people." So, then, I see free will and it comforts me. The other passage I wanted to mention is one that you taught the first verse of, but I find the "answer" in the two scriptures below. This is the passage in Ephesians 1 starting, as you quoted with vs 11, "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." NOW, hear the next three verses. Vs.12 ,13 & 14 are a further explanation of the purpose teaching AND free will of this teaching: Vs. 12- "that we who FIRST trusted in Christ SHOULD BE to the praise of His glory." It seems Paul is explaining that He and the disciples, and maybe some other original believers were needed in God's plan of spreading the gospel, therefore those who "first trusted in Christ" were predestined and chosen for His purpose (spreading the Gospel) and should be to the praise of His glory. Now 1:13 completes the whole thought, "In Him you also trusted AFTER YOU HEARD the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, HAVING BELIEVED , you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. 14. Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, (again) to the praise of His glory. So, it seems to me like God had a definite and obvious purpose in choosing the 12 disciples (yet, still one of them was "a devil") which was to spread the gospel of Christ. So, those were chosen, and yes, to the praise of His glory! What a great plan to save the world! Then, after the chosen 12 began to work the works according to the purpose of the counsel of God's will, OTHERS were also sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of inheritance, after they heard the fulfilment of the word of truth and believed (w free will) what the 12 were predestined and chosen to teach. As for me, I would think this type of election for a purpose of specific service is completely at God's discretion and certainly happened many, many more times than just the 12 disciples. And yet, wherever the Word of Truth is taught, the Spirit of Promise is ready to seal anyone who will believe the gospel by their free will. Perhaps you can come up with scripture that would blow away my interpretation of Eph 1:11-14. (I wish you wouldn't! :) What I like about my thinking here is that it does include both elect with a purpose and free will. Even in being elect, there is still free will (Judas) and yet that didn't thwart God's plan. I think we'd have to agree that Paul was definitely hand-picked...but not first. Was that part of the plan? Perhaps. However, I am satisfied to believe that if Judas and Paul were part of God's plan, its because He foreknew who would win the game.
You should listen to Jim. Brown truth and Grace ministries on utube, he will low you away with Truth. I was never chosen or special in my life, always on the outside looking in, asking for many decades what was the magical words to get to God, turns out, predestination is true, sounds like you are predestined but need to study with a man who knows so much about the Bible, he won’t sugar coat it for you, ut if your elect, you will grow to love this message of Gods messenger.
What-If only Replays the God's game as in prayers with Him, yet John 3:16 too reminds my Conscientious effort unlike Adam and Eve how surrenders Conscious Free Wills adopted since in Worldly games whoever mind you winning such not by Rosy rules the Beatitudes luckily be unashamed of Either-If placed in Heavenly Eden or New Earth when coming?!
God is only going to save those that He predestined to be with him. God was an evil, cruel and mean God to me. He created me an unbeliever as a forerunner and he didn't give me Jesus Christ and he told me that he did not predestine me to be with him. And he didn't want to save my soul. Then he told me all my righteousness and holy living is all in vain after he set me up to fail the Spiritual Death. I called out to Jesus on so many occasions begging him to please come live inside of me but he refused to because he did not want to save me.
You're a brilliant teacher pastor, Mike. Your videos discussing Calvinism have greatly improved my understanding. I especially appreciate your approach to always using scripture. I studied the bible on my own without without a bible study group, or any preconceived notions or ideologies and I came to the exact same conclusion that you come to in this video. It was only when I looked into Calvinism a few days ago that I realized these things were even issues to begin with.
This is the same story for me. Got into it independently without any foreknowledge and it seems obvious. Always I thank God for allowing this to happen
24:55 When it comes to our praying for the salvation of others, there should be no exception whatsoever. It should be for ALL men in ALL groups. That's what Reformed people has always believed. In no way does that contradict our belief that God only desires for a select number of people from each group to be saved. We don't KNOW who's God's elect, who's not. Therefore we pray for everyone without exception.
God wants all men to be saved. He being God knows that won't happen. His "elect" are those who accept Salvation on His terms through belief in His Son (the sacrificed lamb) I don't know what category or belief system that puts me in...this is my understanding after 40 yrs as a Believer in Christ. I'm probably not a Calvinist 😉
@@jessica8704 us sharing the Gospel is the means ordained by God for non-believers to come to know Christ. You can ask God in heaven why doesn't He simply save people by revealing the Gospel to each and every person directly Himself, but until such time, if you truly love God, you'll simply obey his commandment.
In the end my equation that explains my problem with predestination goes like this A. Whatever God wants will happen B. God wants everyone to be saved C. Why isn't everyone saved Either God isn't forcing His will at all times or He is not all powerful or He is a contradictory God. If option A is what you choose, which is the option that isn't heretical. Then Calvinism is not an option.
God does not want everyone to be saved like the elect. Read Romans 9. Some people serve as an example of His justice. There, problem solved. You’re welcome.
@@Creshex8 the Bible says that the Lord wishes non to perish that all may come unto righteousness. As for Romans 9, well mike winger does a better job at that than me.
@@Creshex8 I’m wondering if you realize how smug you sound? Jesus gave a very scary story of a smug Pharisee praying next to a wretched tax collector. Smug did not fair well. So you’ve told us what Saul said…how about I share what God said? As surely as I live declares the Sovereign Lord…I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, BUT RATHER they would turn from their wicked ways and LIVE. God’s will is for us to repent. All of us! Jesus first message…repent…ALL of us. Here is another better than Saul verse…maybe you’ve heard it and not thought abou
There is another view. It is Traditionalism. Soteriology 101 is a helpful resource as well as Beyond the Fundamentals. And there simply is no tension in the matter when we realize that God did not pre-select people for salvation in eternity past.
mickey foeller : Leighton Flowers puts out garbage and the “Beyond the fundamentals” guy is a total ignoramus who can’t even pronounce the names of prominent people correctly.
@@yeoberry Actually as someone who enjoys studies all sides of soteriology and strives to objectively represent all sides faithfully, Leighton Flowers does not put out garbage. That's honestly derogatory and degrading of you to say of his ministry. I enjoy Leighton, Doctor White, Doctor Brown, all differing views on soteriology.
@@kitthorton9860 : As someone who enjoys the Word of God and sound reason and to objectively represent what the Word of God and reason say faithfully, Leighton Flowers definitely puts out garbage. It's actually derogatory and degrading to the truth to state that Flowers' nonsense is anything other than garbage. I recommend you start enjoying the truth.
@@yeoberry Flowers always has opposing views on his side, strives to represent the other side faithfully, actually plays clips of people in their own words stating what they believe about an issue, and strives to do it all in kindness and gentleness. This is huge and is one reason so many people like myself have enjoyed his ministry. That type of kindness, gentleness, striving to represent the other side by letting them speak for themselves is rare these days. Its shocking you would find that garbage even if you disagree with his soteriology. Sometimes those who threaten our closely held speculated beliefs the most cause us the most angst.
Kitt Horton : 1. Flowers is wrong. He presents a man-centered philosophy and twists scripture to justify it. 2. Flowers band many people who disagree with him from his UA-cam and Facebook pages because his man-centered philosophy can’t stand up to scrutiny. 3. You sound like someone who is “always learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.” 4. The purpose of theology isn’t to be “fair” to all sides (which Flowers doesn’t do anyway). It’s to reflect the truth of the Word of God. Flowers actually contradicts it.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. Isaiah 63:17 O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage. Whether we like it, think it’s fair, or approve of it, God is sovereign.
Thank you so much for doing this. It is so refreshing to find someone who is not caught up in the wisdom of man, and the strifes over words, and the intruding into things which are not seen, which both Calvinism and Arminianism engage in. It's like they are sitting on opposite corners of the same prison cell, the prison cell of the human mind, yelling and screaming at each other about how the other one is in prison... May God bless you, prosper you and get the message out. I'm so tired of dealing with people who just don't seem to be able to free themselves from the intrusions of men's wisdom into the simple and wonderful doctrines of the scripture!
Mike, your presentation style is warm and inviting and your desire to know the Word is so appreciated. I lovingly invite you and those who have viewed your video to also watch this excellent video on the topic. 12-minute teaching followed by a 12-minute Q/A. Bottom line: Yes, God foreknew those who would, of their own volition, choose to be saved. But God's foreknowledge doesn't MAKE them believe; He just knows this information as facts of history. He is before and after time. So He knows the end from the beginning. Everything future to us is already a fact of history to Him. God lives in the eternal present tense. And then, based on His foreknowledge of who will trust Him, God "elects"...not to salvation but for a divinely appointed ROLE in our service for Him. Look at all the examples throughout the Bible of those who were "elected" or "chosen"...(For example: Jesus, Israel, even Judas!) Were any of these elected to salvation? No. And even though Israel was God's elect nation, the majority of them dropped dead in the wilderness and failed to enter into Canaan because of unbelief. And then what do we do with Gentiles like Rahab who eventually became part of the chosen nation? Here is the big idea: God doesn't "elect" people to salvation. He "elects" people for a ROLE. Please watch. This is liberating: ua-cam.com/video/jM-20JzHp3I/v-deo.html
He “elects” people for a role…well I agree…just bigger thought…he “calls” all to repentance and adoption…unfortunately, few like Rahab say…YES God “wants” to Marry us…ALL of us…but He CANT Force us…that would NOT be marriage…it’s called rape…and God can’t DO THAT…He just Can’t God is Worshipped Round the Clock…not only for what He CAN Do…but also what He can’t…we just don’t give Him enough credit You know those 4 Living Beings that SURROUND HIM? Ponder this…God CANNOT…neglect them, abuse them denigrate them…And they KNOW it…they FEEL it…They are not chained to His throne…they are free to leave! Of course they had a huge advantage over Lucifer…the could see the cold and darkness behind them without removing their eyes from the living one.
Calvinists talk about God striking out in Love…it seems that Calvinists are confusing lovers and sex slaves Lovers are always vulnerable…can always be rejected…can always be trampled…surely you’ve read what Christ cries out at the very end for those HE LOVED…and those who hated Him…strike out?…Hell No..out of the park bottom of the ninth bases loaded home run for the win
I am so grateful for what you are saying here. I am starting to feel settled in my heart that what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me, I am understanding correctly. I love the Calvinists that I know but I couldn’t make the points hold water, so to speak. Thank you for taking the time to share this and to back it up with Scripture and for showing why Calvinism doesn’t hold true.
What is the "middle-ground" for these 2 beliefs? It's just a certain way a human taught that had a huge impact. I am not Arm, nor Calv. What am I? I am a Bible student. I look at Scripture as Gods Word, not mine nor that of another mans views. But if we look at scripture as the ultimate Truth, and compare it to our thinking, it exegetes itself. Nor is there a need to think that God agrees more or less with one side or the other. Just read the Word of God and ask Him to open your eyes and give you the discernment to correctly exegete His Word, and for whom He did it for. You'll be amazed to find that it's not about you, me, or them. It's for the Glory of God that Christ has set us (those who are in Christ) free. Not free will to chose what we want, or how we want it, but a freeing of the will that has the merciful, gracious ability, from God, to discern Gods Word and to glorify Him to the utmost. Only done by Christ, in Christ, through Christ, for God the Father.
Sorry, but that is ridiculous. Once you define what a view or belief is, you can now attach a name to it and contrast it with another interpretation. Your refusal to take sides isn’t going to cut it. You either believe Christ is God or not. You cannot just refuse to state your position by feinting by saying “I just believe what the Bible says about it!” So what does the Bible say, exactly?
@@RossTheWretch so if you are neither an Arminian or Calvinist, what is your view on the matters these systems address? There is no sitting on the fence here. You cannot claim you have a belief not found or already named. Good luck.
I think I will never really take a permanent stance on this issues. Some days I lean more toward some mysterious free will that we have to be saved some days I lean more toward Calvinist but the bottom line it doesn’t matter to me because your stance on this doesn’t save you. I know that I and no one else deserves to be saved from eternal condemnation. I’m just grateful that Jesus had mercy on me and that he died on the cross for me and that is the ultimate act of love. He is good and i trust Him. I trust I will never fully understand Him as long as I’m in this part of the world. If anyone is grappling with these issues i pray for you to come to terms that you will never ever fully understand the mind of God and that you be at peace with that.
Beautiful testimony and thank you you are right, he is all together lovely and other , we dont deserve salvation period, and yet he saved someone like me like you! Praise God he is enough we dont have to know everything.
not a really smart idea way to think. if a non believer in your household hears that the calvinistic way it'll make him less open to beliefe in christianity. The apostle paul would disagree with your attitude.
@@westannex1655 agreed
Ruby...I hope you see my heartfelt thanks sister in Christ! God bless you!
Love that....wonderfully put
"I think it gives God glory to just let the text teach what the Scripture teaches." Thank you!
But God commands us to teach the scriptures
@@Faith_First001 by “living it” we will be “teaching it.” ✝️🙏🙏
@deisel1016 True, but we who don't teach must be stewards of the word and be found faithful through discernment to the who do teach it. 2 Tim. 2:15 Otherwise, we fall for teaching that only please our ichy ears. 2 Tim. 4:3
I was reading the comments while listening to Mike. As I got to this comment Mike started saying it… Amen!
If you just let the text teach you what ends up happening is it you end up with thousands of different protestant denominations that all disagree with each other
I'm so happy the UA-cam algorithm planted this as a recommendation. Praise Jesus ✝
This makes so much sense! I thought I was saved and a Christian most of my life, first as a Jehovah's Witness and later as a New Thought adherent, and I had visited Christian churches and said the sinner's prayer, and even cried one time at a church service, vocally accepting Him. Nothing. Then one day, while at a new age music conference, after I had lost my voice for six days, in my desperation I truly called out in my thoughts (for I had no voice!) to Jesus, and vowed that if He brought my voice back, I would sing His praises every day. I forgave everyone who had wronged me. I asked sincerely for Him to forgive my sins and I gave my life to Him. BOOM. It happened. I was born again. I felt my sins, for the first time literally lift off my body. I felt cleansed of all my iniquity. Then over the next few weeks, He opened my eyes to sin as the scales fell off. I was in utter shock! It was both beautiful and terrible at the same time. But of course, it's the best thing that ever happened to me! I had been adopted as a child of God into His Kingdom! Praise God!
@Crim Sin yes. Yes, I am a funny girl. But I am a saved funny girl.🤗
@Crim Sin Also, I kind of had to condense my story. In retrospect, it was lack of Biblical knowledge at the time, being steeped in new age teachings. I made the funny "bargain" the week before I was born again. The following week was when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. But I never forgot. I love singing His praises every day. Be blessed, brother.
Valerie Campbel
Valerie Campbell GOD bless you!
@@vadinandez Just a small correction of theology You came into God's kingdom and became His child by being 'Born Again' John 3 (look up other Biblical references to regeneration and new birth). However. adoption referrers, not to becoming a child of God but to the time of our resurrection Romans 8:28. In Galatians 4 you will find in New Testament times it was the practice for a father to adopt his own natural son when he reached maturity. At this time he would start to share family or business responsibility. This is what our adoption will be about when we are conformed to the image of Christ we will be ready to be involved with our saviour in the administration of the age to come Ephesians 1:10. Many Christians are unaware of this as they are unfamiliar of this process of adoption practised in NT times. So glad to hear you found your way out of JWs.
I know I can't be saved unless I'm chosen and called and I know I can't be saved unless I'm willing to repent and
believe. It is all of God so that He gets all of the glory.
Then you don't know what "chosen and called" refers to.
I believe everyone is "called."
@@theepicenter4106 well all that are drawn will be raised, and all that are called will be conformed to the image of His son. So does that also mean you believe everyone is raised, and that everyone is conformed to the image of His son? So everyone is save.... John 6:44 Rom 8:29
@@jeffnorton9875 i must admit im glad i said then only that "i believe." Meaning i wasnt sure. Because now, after much praying and Bible study, i am sure that NOT everyone is called and here's what it means...
- God wants everyone to repent. 2 Peter 3:9
- Not everyone will repent.
- God knows the future and knows who will repent.
- He "calls" (or makes a path to Him) only for those whom He knows will repent.
@@theepicenter4106 Id be a careful with that. There is a one problem. The idea that God looks through time or sees into the future to see who will choose him and then makes his election based off of that means that God is acquiring information to base his decision and an all knowing God cannot learn. .
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you" John 15:16
Ephesians 1:4-5
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
HE didn't predestine us if that is what he saw was going to happen anyway by OUR decision.
It was according to HIS will for us to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ.
It gets weird when you say his will, adoption, and predestining was determined by mans decision because then you also have a problem with God no longer being omnipotent.
@44:25 .. "These are NOT dividing issues..." The best 5 words in the whole of the video... God bless you Ptr Mike!! ❤🙂
Thank you Pastor Mike for this very clear presentation of what I believe. I once attended a church where the Pastor was a hard core extreme Calvanist. That would have been ok except that he kept hammering, hammering, hammering most every week,, anyone who dared to believe differently. He also misrepresented what I believe like saying that people who think they had a choice in their salvation, just want to receive some credit for their salvation. As you pointed out, this is totally not true. Jesus did all the work and deserves all the credit.
The Calvanist's say their view should give Christians peace. It did just the opposite to me. At that time, I was convinced that I was one of the "chosen" to be forever lost.
The final straw was when i was waiting in line to talk with the pastor one week. I heard him "quote" 2 Peter 3:9 to the woman in front of me. He said, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any," and then he inserted the following 3 words; "of his people " then; "should perish but that all should come to repentance." Does he feel the Bible needs him to add words to make the meaning clear? It was at this point that I decided it was time for me to move on to another church.
FYI: 2Pet 3:9 has been mistranslated in two ways by KJV (primarily Arminian) translators:
1) "τινας" a Greek plural indefinite pronoun is used twice in this verse. It is rendered properly as, "some", for its first usage, but inexplicably rendered as singular indefinite, "any", in it second instance.
2) "βουλόμενός" (planning/intending/resolving) was rendered as "willing"
This as resulted in conundrum: either everyone will be saved or God's will is thwarted
Subsequent Arminian translations have attempted to "fix" this conundrum, by changing "willing" to "wanting" or "wishing", in order to maintain a universal possibility for universal salvation.
The literal Greek text reads, "....not intending/planning some to perish....", which is "dripping" with Calvinist doctrines (a frequent characteristic of the Greek text, which is usually misleadingly translated by Arminian-biased translators, because much of the Greek text makes no sense to a, "Free-Will" believer, because it is dripping with the absolute sovereignty of God in all things, from who might believe, might confess (Rom 10:9), or who "might call upon the name of the LORD"
(Rom 10:13), wherein Arminian translators often render Greek (God controlled) subjunctives as English (man-controlled) indicatives.
The Arminian doctrine of "Free-Will" is inconsistent with an absolute sovereign God who will not share His glory with another (Is 42:8), particularly defiled sinners like us.
@@alanlietzke5738 so, would you agree that if the original text means "some" that to translate that as "any of his people" is also an interpolation and a change to what scripture literally says at face value?
While translating from one language to another, arbitrarily changing the number, case, or gender of nouns, pronouns, adjectives and participles, will often alter the intended meaning. The same applies to changing the tense, voice or mood of verbs. Moreover, deleted and inserted words should be avoided, or whenever used, should be clearly indicated, so that the reader can decide for themselves, if the "improvements" of the translator are consistent with the larger context, ESPECIALLY, with the Word of God, where each jot and tittle is never accidental. When variations in copies exist, the variation with the high chance of having been corrected is probably closest to the original.
KJV translaters were literally predestinationalists within the Catholic, Presbyterian, and Anglican streams. It was not translated by either arminians NOR traditionalists. @@alanlietzke5738
@@alanlietzke5738"or God's will is thwarted" uh yeah, God doesn't get everything He wants. He limits Himself on purpose for our sake. This is literally in every book of the Bible.
I love it when we can simply admit we don't understand everything.
Agreed - "not many wise are called", and the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. To think we can explain predestination completely is arrogant, but we can stay with the scriptures in totality.
That is wisdom !
2:06, 2:24, 2:36, 2:41 - difference between election and predestination
5:01 - Ephesians 1:4
5:25 - Matthew 22:14
5:54, 6:19, 6:46, 7:08 - Acts 13:48
6:18, 6:37 - corporate election
7:45 -
8:34 - Israel and choices
9:00, 9:35, 10:20, 11:20, 15:15 - Unconditional election
11:50, 19:11 - middle ground
11:56 - Arminian view
12:27 - 1 Peter 1:2
14:25 - Romans 8:29
14:58
15:40
16:16, 16:45 - Ephesians 2:8 feminine and neuter
18:12 - predestination
18:42, 19:13 - Acts 4
20:13, 20:36 - Ephesians 1:5 and Ephesians 1:11
26:02, 26:44 - Limited atonement and 2 Peter 2:1
27:50 - Revelation 5:9
29:12 - 1 John 2:2
34:23 - Winger’s take on the five points
37:00 - sovereignty and free will
37:39 - do we need to reconcile the two?
38:49 - who chooses?
40:34
42:39 - predestination, sovereignty, and free will
Excellent!
thanks for this.
Thank you for the timestamps!
Need a job? Lol great work thank you!
@@tjmarcil1244 Seriously though, time-stamping would be a sweet gig. lol
Mike, although I disagree with some of your doctrines, I find your unifying tone refreshing! Your manner of presentation is easy for me to hear.
WickAndTallow the presentation really is fantastic. It really shows that His heart for all people.
WickAndTallow I agree with you 100% at first I was sorta skeptical about this guy for whatever reason I had many videos ago but the more I listen to him I find myself loving his teachings and the grace with which he speaks! This is what a Christian looks like!
WickAndTallow, I agree and What I really like about Mike is that he always seems to read from the text, which is the right thing, rather than reading into it.
As to the specific issue, there's a tension that seems to make it impossible to completely choose one side of the argument over the other. There's an element of the truth to both and that's fascinating.
Jason Ruediger I feel the exact same way. I was being a complete jerk about my differences with a reformed buddy of mine until I realized I was the one causing division; not necessarily the theology. There’s so much we can agree on and instead of focusing on those points I was building up Calvinist straw man and burning it down. I realize he is as convicted to certain elements of Calvinism as I am to traditionalism. That was mind blowing for me to think about. He is genuinely taking the text and drawing out Calvinistic theology and I’m doing the same but at opposite spectrums. In the end we are both brothers in Christ assured in our salvation by faith in Christ. Once I jumped that hurdle I instantly quit being the little offended cry baby during our weekly bible studies. It is indeed interesting how both sides are reflected in the text and I can’t seem to drink enough scripture to be 100% convinced of either.
Edward Peters :
You’re not genuinely deriving “traditional” theology from the Bible because what you call “traditional” isn’t really traditional” but modern man/centered philosophy; evangelicals and especially Baptists were traditionally Calvinists and the Bible doesn’t teach your man-centered philosophy; you read it into the text. But it’s good that you’re softening in your man-centered philosophy.
Such a good video! So grateful to learn from fellow Christian UA-camrs who are so much more knowledgeable than I am. Free Will, sovereignty, election, and predestination all existing side by side - refreshing to see!
I just discovered your channel recently! Love the videos, keep sharing the good news! God bless.
Free Will. Really? Give me passages in context that say we have Free Will when it comes to being regenerated or saved. There are NONE who seek God, no not one. Rom.3:10-17 John 6:44
@@tstjohn777 You're conflating free will with following clues. Free will does not mean that God doesn't have ultimate authority nor does it mean that God has no influence, nor does it mean that God cannot make exceptions when we stubborn humans are overly blind. It literally took divine intervention for Paul to come to Christ, but that does not mean God forced Paul to accept Jesus, it just means that he was supplied with undeniable evidence as part of God's calling. If there is no real free will, then there is no point in creation being what it is. God could have a lot less unnecessary issues and problems with humanity if we're just robotic bags of meat.
Isaiah 55 6-7
Galatians 5 13-17
@teeemm9456 , no, I'm not conflating.
@teeemm9456 not robots, just humans with a genetic predisposition to be and act a certain way. That's why Saul responded the way he did, even David, Joseph and his brothers, and Pharoah, to name a few.
Everything is for God's glory and to reveal He is Potentate and nothing man can do to trawrt it. Rom 9:17, even the context of this chapter clearly shows everything is what "GOD" is doing
As to you quoted verse. As I say to everyone who refutes truth. Context is everything.
In the Isa. quote, if you would have continued beyond those two verses. You would have read, " For My thoughts are not your thoughts. Not My ways your ways, "says the LORD.
For as the heavens are above the earth.
So are is telling them what He is doing higher than your ways. And My thoughts than your thoughts.
So go back and pay attention to what is written and how it's written.
God in His sovereignty and providence is doing as He pleases.
You can even go to Isa. 46 and see the context that even in verse 3-5, especially 9-10.
As to Gal. the Greek word in reference to freedom. Is Strong's Number - G1657
Greek: ἐλευθερία
Transliteration: eleutheria
Pronunciation: el-yoo-ther-ee'-ah
Definition: From G1658; freedom (legitimate or licentious chiefly moral or ceremonial):.
So, the freedom we're called to is freedom from immorality. See verse 1. Again, context is everything. He is telling us we are in a new law. The law of the Spirit.
Again, in Rom. 9 it says," it's not of him who "WILLS" or of him who runs but of God who calls. Man's will cannot stand in God's way and purpose. No matter how much he wills.
If you want to call that free will, have at it.
To make it even clearer for you. Rom.9 says, "18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory"
So as you can see God doesn't have an issue with long suffering. Or as you said hardship.
Amen! Absolutely the greatest and most COMPLETE explanation I have ever heard in my 45 years of being a Christian. Thanks for the hard work that you put into this.
That's unfortunate.
@@elunico13 I think that he means that this is the first time he's ever heard such a complete explanation of Calvinism and Arminianism and how it relates to the teachings in the Bible, and I have to agree. In fact, I've never heard a sermon on the topic at all before and didn't know who Calvin or Arminian were until my sister just started going to a Calvinist church. The church that I've been attending for the past 30 years teaches the same doctrine as pastor Mike here, but they never put a label on it, they just taught out of the Bible. So I went online to figure out what it means and this is the best explanation that I've heard.
In conclusion, I don't follow any one man's interpretation of the Bible, I follow God. I believe that the Bible is the word of God, so I believe that it is correct, even if some of it sounds more Calvinist and some sounds more Arminianist. I'm not sure why people had to label different interpretations and make people choose sides. Just believe the Bible.
@@commenter5901 That's awesome. I'm glad you got a chance to listen to this teaching.
As a soldier in the Army I move around a lot and forced to attend churches in different states, cpuntries with different beliefs. Calvinism or the doctrines of Grace are only a small portion of what is called reformed theology, coming out of the Reformation of 1517. That's when there was a great separation from the Catholic Church. And The crux of the issue that separated us was Sola Fide. That we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.
I know what you mean about "I believe the Bible". So do I, but remember we're part of the larger body of Christ made up of both present, future and those in the past. We're not the first ones to ever take the Bible seriously and much can be learned by our Christian Brothers n Sisters from hundreds of years ago. Church history and the confessions they wrote.
I don't sit in my room alone reading the Bible coming up with my own interpretations. I do read, but highly consider the doctrines of others in the body of Christ, keeping in mind that the scriptures are about God's redemptive plan to reconcile us to Himself through Christ by believing the gospel, which is the power of God to save all who believe.
@Thomas B I'm a nerd. Pay no attention to me
That's awesome broh. Listen to allen parr , he is friends with mike winger
It's very good that you bring up the calvinist's interpretation and then give your response to that. It makes your arguments more dynamic.
Jesus said, I have chosen you Twelve but one of you is the devil.
@@kennychristiangomez6196 so are you the devil?
I know this is 3 yes. Later, but a Orthodox Presbyterian pastor has tried to go over some of this and even given me a book. It seems like " splitting hairs" as one could say God knows ahead of time who will and won't truly follow him. It's confusing if you think of God as omniscient and omnipresent. Past,present and future reside with him continuously! I am turned off by the term elect but I also have never liked to refer to myself as saved, are the two terms any different? Also, I don't mind infant baptism as whole households were baptised and some of those could've been infants. You don't need to be baptized to be saved. I hope someone can answer these.....In John Jesus said you did not choose me but I chose you. So, how much is our free will? So confusing!
@@KM-zn3lx In John, Jesus said "I choose you" but He was speaking about His purpose. He didn't say "I chose you to go to heaven." Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just for some. God says He knew us before the foundation of the world. Can you imagine a loving God who decides before we are ever born which ones He wants to burn in hell for eternity? They also believe that murder, rape, etc are pre-ordained by God! The Word tells us over and over to humble ourselves. He tells us that He sets before us life and and death, and tells US to chose! So, if God chooses whoever He wants, why should we humble ourselves? Why should we chose? Calvinism takes all of the responsibility off of man and puts it all on God. So we are not free and are not responsible for our actions and decisions. That is so unbiblical. People who follow Joseph Smith are Mormons, those who follow Charles Russell are Jahovah's Witnesses, and those who follow John Calvin are Calvinists. We should only follow Christ and be Christians.
Blessings ☺️❤️🙏
@@hleigh7201 You refuted Calvinism with a few simple arguments! It's funny because those are the ones I came up with too lol.
Right in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism- that's right where I find myself as well. Thank you for the good word, brother!
They are mutually exclusive. How can you be in between them?
Yes same
Bad place to be, they are both wrong. Election is to service, predestination is the destined things a saved person will experience.
@@golightly5121 can you give me bible verses and explain some. This actually makes a lot of sense if its biblical
@@ginamartinez1654 yes, first go to blue letter bible and use KJV. Do a word search on Elect. See how it is connected to service.
This is so well presented and backed up by scripture. I have never believed in Calvinism but this is one of the best studies I've heard. Thank you so much for the study and effort you've put into this. God bless you
24 down, 26 videos to go of the Romans playlist! Very refreshing and i am learning a lot! Romans contains so much information and valuable lessons. Thank you Mike for spending so much time and efforts in these studies. God bless you and your family.
there's a Romans playlist!? Where can I find it?!?
The best video for my struggles ... man pastors I gave read over 120 books on God, doctrine and history read Scripture cover to cover 15 times different translations and HAVE to say you are the best teacher w/o a doubt thank you and God bless you.
Here are my thoughts on how we might reconcile predestination through God's choice of an elect and our ability to make a free-will decision to accept or deny Him. We have to realize that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. Omnipresent has always been understood to mean not just everywhere, but also everywhen. I think we really need to break the temporal aspect of that away from the location aspect and make it its own category: Omnitemporal. We very often forget that God is not bound by time. God created time.
With this in mind. God knew the choice you would make before He created you. He knew the choice you would make before He created anything. Thus, there is no need to reconcile your free-will choices with the Will of God. He is present in all times. He knows every beginning and every outcome. God knowing what you will choose, outside of the restrictions of time, does not conflict with your ability to make the choice within time.
Our confusion with this perceived conflict stems from our inability to understand an existence outside of time. God has no such difficulty.
We do need to reconcile our free will with His because we did in fact sin within time and he chooses to reconcile us within time by his ordnance which occurs within history.
Ye, I imagine it like, God sees the universe as a static, not moving 4D structure. Like every moment of our universe is put together to make the 4d structure (since God is outside of time and can see the universe from this outside perspective). And our free will is how our individual souls shape our 4D structure, but God can see it all and makes everything work out in the end.
God chooses and man chooses. God doesn't choose and man doesn't choose. Yet, God doesn't just conform to man's choice/foreseen faith. Wrap your mind around that one...
You are smart I can tell , you ever read that God is God in the Highest Dwells in unapproachable Light Because he is Light but good news ! We can through Jesus our Mediator through him we can come freely with confidence to the Omniscient Omnitemporal One as you comment cause Jesus fills all things in earth and in heaven . He made the worlds all things visible and invisible were made by him The Epistle of Paul to the Colossians is where I recognized the word Omniscient .Glory to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ .enjoyed your words , thanks they are packed with life .Go for the Gold ! Of the calling of God ..
never heard it put that way, but I like how you explain it. I also
This particular video is why I started watching him regularly. Very deep and thorough analysis of the views giving equal credit to all ideas good or bad all the while refusing to step away from the standpoint of what the scripture is saying!
I like your humble perspective on this issue. God is sovereign,
Even and especially of our salvation. We can be thankful.
This realization brings me to my knees.
This sums it up pretty well: We can make our plans, but the Lord determines our steps. - Proverbs 16:9
Don't forget Proverbs 16:1 and 16:4 God is Sovereign over his creation..
Excellent explanation, Mike... clear, thoughtful, and Biblical! Been battling the 'either/or" approach to this topic fo years. Im binge-watching your channel and am very impressed! God bless! Keep up the good work. -Rev Kev
Love all of your teachings(so far), finding your thought in doctrine accurate and your spirit the spirit of Christ, so refreshing and encouraging. No hype just truth in a humble spirit.
I appreciate your balanced approach and you’re the first Bible thinker I’ve seen/heard that maintains such a balanced approach. The fact that God is absolutely sovereign and we have the ability to make decisions on our own doesn’t conflict at all in my thinking. There are many biblical examples of God using someone as a tool and holding them accountable simultaneously.
Just discovered this UA-cam channel....sound doctrine, Word centered and the whole counsel of God....so refreshing and clear in a day where there are so many seducing voices for itching ears....Oh that we would let the Word of Christ dwell in us richly and continually be filled with the Spirit...then let Him live His truth and love through us!! Highly recommend all the videos I have watched so far....
yes, it's called confirmation bias.
About 27 minutes into this, and already Mike has help me to see the issue in ways that I'd never considered before, already has brought to my attention phrases (e.g. "in him") that I'd never before considered in mulling over the issue.
This is one of the best biblical descriptions that I’ve heard on the topic. Pastor Winger was very humble and respectful to the authority of Scripture and laid it out using a hermeneutical approach, which is how it should be done. Thank you, brother Winger. I pray that many will be helped by listening to this sermon so that they can be free from false ideologies and can proclaim the Gospel to EVERY creature, just as Jesus commanded all those who will follow Him. Mark 16:15.
I believe that God has a 'permissive will" which allows our choices and a "divine will" which has His plan fulfilled whatever our choices.
He wants all to be saved that's the kicker. And all aren't saved thus we have free will.
Ephesians 2:9 ONLY THROUGH CHRIST WE ARE SAVED SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST.
Kathy Shearer, I think you lost of the scripture there. "For it is by grace [male] you have been saved [male], through faith [female] and this [gender neutral, singular] is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"
For its by Grace you are saved through faith , and this is Not of yourselves but is a Gift from God , and not of works lest any man should boast ! .
Not only does what you’re teaching make sense due to your diving into scripture, backing it up with scripture and using helpful analysis, it simply MELTS away this CRIPPLING anxiety I have around assurance of salvation! Sitting under the Calvinist teaching is like a milestone hung over my shoulders and this is setting me free so it has to be truth ~John 8:31-32
Thank you Mike, continue in His Spirit and be blessed
Once again congratulations on your bravery and humility in presenting this topic solely based on Christian instead of interpreting scripture based on predisposed assumptions.
My thoughts exactly! Only through Christ we are saved so that NO man may boast!
I found your preaching after looking up Melchizedek and I'm so happy I did. I'm someone who does wrestle with predestination and free-will and after sitting under preaching for an "effectual call" i got lost in Google trying to figure things out. Thanks for your humble and great teaching.
Thank you for explaining a very confusing topic! God is such a mystery and I know we humans cannot understand Him completely while we are on Earth; however, the more I study, the more confused I get. Your positive approach and your humor are refreshing! Bless your ministry!🙏💞
Excelente point, it opened my mind to understand, the husband and wife it's like the Christ and the Church, we choose each other but He loved us first. Spot on.
Great points. Keep in mind the “world” in 1john 2:2 is the same “world” in romans 3 that is guilty before God. The whole world is guilty, and Christ died for the same world.
I agree for we have already established that Both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.
The world is Jews and Gentiles.
If Jesus died for Judas Judas would be in heaven.
You don't have Eternal Life bc you Believe you have Eternal Life bc God died for your sins.
God died for us so that we would live with him 1 Thessalonians 5:9
The purpose of Christ death was to save us from hell.
It is bc Jesus died for us that we live in Heaven we merely enter into that Gift reserved for us by Faith.
In other words we're sanctified for salvation through his Death
I lay down my life for my sheep.
And we receive that Gift through faith.
But the goats on Jesus's left hand they do not believe because God didn't die for them. Matthew 25
Jesus told the Pharisees you do not believe because you are not of my sheep.
Only Jesus is sheep in other words those who He laid down his life for believe.
@@eliasbarrasa7320 well God never died, Jesus did there is a difference
@@eliasbarrasa7320 Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself.
Thank you for pointing that out. I've actually heard from certain POV's that world doesn't really mean world and all doesn't really mean all. 🤔 Sometimes (definitely not every time) the Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it. So yes world means world and all means all.
Spoken with complete grace and truth!!
1 Corinthians 3:4 “For when one says, “I follow Paul,(Calvinism)” and another, “I follow Apollos,(Arminianism)” are you not being merely human?” Christ Jesus is our foundation!!!
It's just a label for a set of beliefs. I doubt people are really following some guy name Armin.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I do see many do follow a guy named Calvin, Though they don't realize it,
I have been researching this debate for a couple weeks, and honestly there are many videos on the Calvinist side that really just say clearly this is the truth and everyone who disagrees is on thing or another,
Saw one yesterday there was a whole panel, asked what is the dif between Calvinism and hyper Calvinism his answer was don't ask a Armenian because he is ignorant and does not understand the basics and a hyper Calvinist is lost his mind so only a Calvinist is in his right mind I mean he went on longer in more depth but there it is this attitude I see over and over again,
I am watching a movie called the Calvinist or Calvinist or something like that kind of made it out like everything really started at the reformation and from there the reformed church split between Calvin and Armenian and the Armenian side fell into all false doctrine and Calvinism is the beacon of truth,
Even Macarthur who I love his teaching mostly but on this he says if you are not Calvinist either you really are but don't realise it or will become a universalists eventually
@@victorcritelli5790 Sounds like Calvinists are arrogant.
I sat through a TULIP orientation at a church I was attending recently. Much of what the pastor said just didn't seem to make sense to me. When the time came for Q&A I pressed him about almost every point he made. I was told it was a Calvinist church but had no idea what that meant until after the TULIP presentation for newcomers. I really appreciate your work on this subject. Your presentation is straightforward and easy to follow. I've moved on to a different "non-Calvinist" church where I am completely happy.
Love this. The whole Bible is true. It says predestination, free will are true, and God desires all to come to repentance.
I was saved by reading the Word. I just KNEW that what I was reading was true. I didn't choose, I just believed as I read and I was born again instantly! My mother, however, confessed that she'd made a mess of her life and asked the Lord to take control and guess what? She was born again! Neither of us have ever been The same from that moment on. The outcome was the same, even though the journeys getting there were different. The take away? God is SOVEREIGN.
I loved this. It is really labour intensive to grasp these theological debates and you've done a great job Mike. Cheers for your work mate, and I hope that I will give the scriptures the same justice that you do when I encounter these tricky conversations.
Having freedom of choice makes me feel much more grateful to God. Because it makes me realise that the Creator of the Earth and the whole universe is so tender, merciful and loving that He risks Himself being rejected. Rejection is painful, especially when you love that person so deeply. His love for us is just unfathomable. Who am I to reject this wonderful God?
as nice as that sounds that creates a small , God who is hoping someone accepts his gift of salvation. This does not deplict the God of the Bible. whether we like it or not God is sovereign in everything, including salvation.
God was rejected, His son murdered horribly, you do not have free will. Listen to Jim Brown Truth and Grace ministries on utube
Praying for those in authority doesn't need to mean for salvation; but to make the right decisions with their power etc.
I’m so grateful for your simple and humble explanation of theology 👏
So thankful for your ministry! These videos have been very helpful to me as I navigate these tough topics. Your outlook is refreshing as it is not divisive at all. You encourage people to study the Word for what it says and affirm that whatever "side" we land on we are still brothers and sisters in Christ and we can love each other accordingly. In my study I have come to many of the same conclusions as you and I thought I was some weird person that didn't fit anywhere, so I am thankful to know I'm not alone.
Well, I THOUGHT I was a Calvinist. Thank you Mike for clarification.
Even Arminians always think it sounds much cooler to be a Calvinist, even if they disagree with the view.
Excellent bible centered teaching. Thank you
God Almighty being God Almighty knows all things... before we're born he knows what we'll do and how we'll choose. He died for all, but all won't accept that free gift.
I start with this premise, and it always ends here too!
This a specious argument. Are we living in a simulation? What Scripture can you point to that states what you are saying?
@@ReachOutToWilliam 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Would what God knows be descriptive rather than prescriptive in nature?
I agree. They both are true and work together.
The question is how does he know w all things? Because he sees into the future which no scripture states, or he knows the future because He works all things according to his will? Ephesians’
"These are not dividing issues." Yes! Thank you! Plain reading of the text. 📖
Glorious! Thank you Mike.
When I knew the sovereignty of God I had real peace for the first time in my long life
The calvinists don't use the word sovereignty correctly
I thought calvanists said no one could know whether they were saved or not?
@Molly Much why is that?
@@kiwisaram9373 A Calvinist knows they’re saved by their desire to seek God. It shows the Holy Spirit working within. Over time this desire produces fruit which is traces of the Holy Spirit sanctifying you.
God bless,
SM
@@ShepherdMinistry I've met a lot of Muslims and Adulterous Christians who fit into that catagory
I never could reconcile election, with free will. You've explained it better than I've ever heard before. Thank you 😊
jeanie garrison think of it as a parent and a child. A child that had been adopted.
Throw out the libertarian free will. It is philosophical, man made garbage.
I’m so grateful for your simple humble explanation of theology 👏
I really like how you delivered this without slandering those who bielive differently than you on this issue, at the end of the day we all have to continue learning from each other as the body of CHRIST because no one is wise in this journey to heaven, may GOD help us all to stay humble and straighten our walk with the LORD.
Love Beyond the Fundamentals channel. He explains calvinism so awesome. I'm sure you know of him. I love your studies Mike. Thank you for taking the time to help so many.
Vicki m I’m with you - amen!! I find Kevin goes a little deeper and resolves the “tension” that is not in fact there.
@@laurakosch also Sotriololgy channel
Calvinism is false doctrine. I'm going to make a video on this scripture today
@@Keepitoriginalministry Yes I know it is. Many people believe is this false doctrine.
I have to disagree with Beyond the Fundementals. I don't like calvinism, but I don't believe that Calvinists get any of the gospel wrong. They believe that trusting in Jesus and his sacrifice for our sins is the only way to Heaven. If you believe in Him you are truly saved. They don't get that wrong.
I agree 100%!! Thank you Mike and I pray God keep blessing you in your ministry!
My oldest grandson is reformed Presbyterian and I was born again into an evangelical church back in the late 70’s and it seems as if we have very little in common. He is an intellectual and that makes it difficult, as well. We can’t or don’t engage in talking about the Lord very often, which I do a lot when talking to other believers. Help! It is so distressing to me, I feel he thinks he is so above me, spiritually and he has very little experience because his faith is so dry and void of the spirit, from what I can see. I’m not trying to be above anyone, but having walked with the Lord for over 42 years, GOD has been so good to me, so faithful, loving and has rescued me and protected me miraculously, but sharing some of this seems so futile. And disbelieved and probably even ridiculed. I’m at a loss, and from what I’ve seen, that RP group seems spiritually dead, no life, Christ’s abundant life, at all.
"We love Him because he FIRST loved us." or we choose Him because he FIRST chose us.
Saved Starr We are supposed to choose to believe and repent because He is the Word of our CREATOR and follow Him.
@@revbobmartin God is sovereign in all^ including our salvation:)
But we still have to choose lol
We still have to choose, thats the purpose of life. Calvinism is heresy lol
@@stephenrogers5593 exactly love by definition has to be freely given and freely received
Thanks Pastor Mike for your teaching...i been studying a lot of time about Predistination.May God bless you 🙏
I truly believe that there is both God choosing us and us also choosing Him. Its both. God chooses or we choose. You should not purely camp your theology as "I am a strict Calvinist" or "I am a strict Arminianist". I see this evidently through how people expain differently how they came to know God. "He knocked on the door and I welcomed Him", "I was at my lowest point in life and decided to read the Bible and go to church and was convinced that there is no other way, so I knocked on God's door and He welcomed me." In my case I went to God. I asked Him to prove He was real. I chose to pursue Him. He in return chose to pursue me. I had the free will to do so and God was faithful to this and heard my earnest cry. Seems as though it is truly both working together in many cases, God choosing, and or us choosing. Is God capable of operating through strictly either? Yes because He's God. If you disagree with this or another person's theology, at the end of the day this debate does not and should not divide us as the Body of Christ. We agree on "90%." We should place our focus on that. The other "10%" is held in consideration. It's a healthy consideration and great discussion. A great conversation which shouldn't divide us. We are ONE.
Great video. It takes humility to think about things and stumble over stuff that you can't understand fully. Great sermon Brother. I stumble a slightly different way but I know we are brothers :-)
I was just thinking about this again, this morning. It's great to have this video to come back to. Thank you for this helpful teaching.
Invaluable teaching!
Thank you for sharing this, brother!
If Calvinism were true, do we realize how much shorter scripture could have been?
It is not a matter of "Calvinism" being true, but that "election" and "predestination" are clearly taught in the Bible.
@@igregmart not individual of either. what examples would you give me?
@@smokingcrab2290 If God calls, ensure the call is answered, teaches and leads through the Holy Spirit, ensures you cannot lose your salvation then the scriptures can be much shorter because the admonitions, warnings, and exhortations could be left out. In addition, so could doctrine since God is doing everything,
"Gen 1:1 In the beginning God decided everything. "
And that's it.
@@regularstan6212 That is not what it says and you know it.
No one can convince me that I wasn't predestined to be confused about these different views. But, admittedly, I am confused about things that I don't understand. Thank the Lord for faith!
Hey Mike, "you can't be there" Classic!! Ive been told the same thing. I just wanted to thank you for using the scriptures to explain the scripture. When dealing with others regarding my stance on exactly what you just explained they referr back to what man says or has written and that always carries a bias. Though the writtings are great its still lends to one side. I found that most need the approval of someone "smarter" to help affirm the position. Lets just use the bible. The bible accurately explains itself and there does exist a middle ground "Christ and Him crucified." I believe in predestination and election but im not a Calvinist nor am i an Arminion but rather one "of the way" just a follower of Christ and am eternally grateful for His transforming power. Keep it up. We can disagree on secondary stances but on primary we have to agree. Be blessed brother.
Sonny Contreras just like David bro! Intent not to steer to the right, nor to the left, but straight on!
I agree! Mike did a good job teaching about these different belief systems. (Praying we don't scare off unbelievers with all our knowlege(s))
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom. 3.10-12)
It doesn't mean total depravity either
@@a-aron6724 Sounds like depravity to me.
Yes, total depravity. That's God's decree on mankind
@@a-aron6724 Jesus saves only the ungodly. Total depravity. He came for sinners
This is great poetry but it is not literally true. David, who wrote these words, also said “I sought the Lord and he answered me” (Ps. 34:4). People like David have always sought the Lord.
In context, Paul is speaking about the Jews who sought to be made righteous through the law (see Rom. 2:17). He is saying that our righteousness falls short of the Lord’s righteousness (Rom. 3:21-23). Compared to God, “there is none righteous.” We all need the righteousness that comes through faith to those who believe (Rom. 3:22)
Thank you, I just prayed about this , and the Holy Spirit reminded me of you. I searched for "Free Will Mike Winger" and found this. This has brought me great peace, God Bless you.✝️
faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God...Jesus is the word made flesh. ..faith comes from Jesus not from us.
you do not seem to understand that the free will doctrine says we cannot attain faith unless we are DRAWN, not forced. Forcing someone to be your bride is Rape. God is not a rapist.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
God draws all, most resist.
Jesusandbible : everyone who is drawn is finally saved (John 6).
wrong - as EVERYONE is drawn,but some do not respond, thus the Angel in Luke 2:10--11 says the good news is for ALL people
@@yeoberry
No one CAN come, not WILL come is what John 6 states. Been listening to too much MacArthur and Piper
Many people in the church today are clueless and in a state of great confusion regarding what true Biblical predestination is and because of Calvinism's great influence in the churches, they will fall back on Calvinism's twisted definition that has been forcefully imposed into many seminaries, Bible colleges, theology textbooks, dictionaries, churches, and church constitutions for centuries.
True Biblical predestination takes place AFTER a person comes to faith in Christ. The Christian is predestinated for 3 things which takes place in the future. True Biblical predestination ONLY applies to those that are saved.
1) They are predestinated to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST - Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 15:49 - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Philippians 3:21 - Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. All saved people will be like Christ. We shall be like Him - 1 John 3:2. This is a future aspect at the Rapture.
2) They are predestinated to have an INHERITANCE in heaven - Ephesians 1:11, John 14:2-4. Again, this is a future aspect.
3) They are predestinated to have GLORIFIED ETERNAL BODIES OF FLESH AND BONE, the REDEMPTION OF OUR PHYSICAL BODIES just like Jesus resurrected body described in Luke 24:39, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:23, Christ's newly resurrected glorified body is the prototype of what is to come for all saved Christians at the RAPTURE - 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 1 John 3:2.
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There is a world of difference between true Biblical predestination and election versus Calvinist "predestination" and "election." Calvinism will use the terms "predestination" and "election" interchangeably to mean the same thing, that is, salvation or damnation which is predetermined in eternity past by God.
Calvinism has hijacked the words, "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" and "predestinate" and perverted the true definition. The true definition is NOT "chose", "chosen", "elect", "election" for salvation. When the Bible talks about being "chosen" or "elect" or "election", it is referring to individuals that have willingly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are "chosen"/"elected" AFTER salvation for MINISTRY/ SERVICE/EVANGELISM.
The true Biblical definition of ELECTION is that God elects/chooses those that are saved who willingly believed in the simple gospel of John 3:16 for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM.
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mark 16:15-16 - 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
The below are examples of God CHOOSING/ELECTING saved people for SERVICE/MINISTRY/EVANGELISM:
1) God CHOSE the Israelites, the Jewish nation to be His chosen people. The Jews are God's ELECT - Deut 7:6, 14:2, 1 Kings 3:8, Psalms 33:12, 106:5, Isaiah 43:10, 45:4, 65:9, 22 Matthew 24:22, 31 Mark 13:20, Luke 18:7, Romans 9:11, 11:28, 2 Tim 2:10, 1 Peter 2:4.
2) God CHOSE Jesus to be the chief cornerstone - 1 Peter 2:4, 6. God chose Jesus to be the Messiah - Isaiah 42:1-4, 49:7, Matt 12:18, Luke 9:35, 23:35, John 1:34, and was chosen to die on the cross for ALL mankind - Matt 12:18, 1 Peter 2:4.
3) Jesus CHOSE 12 men to be His disciples - Luke 6:13, John 6:70, John 13:18, John 15:16, 19, Acts 1:2. God CHOSE Matthias to replace
Judas Iscariot - Acts 1:24-26.
4) Saul of Tarsus who became Paul was CHOSEN by Jesus to be the apostle to the Gentiles - Acts 9:15, 13:2, 22:14-15, Galatians 2:8.
5) Simon Peter was CHOSEN by God to bring the gospel message to Cornelius and his family - Acts 10:1-48, Acts 15:7. Simon Peter was CHOSEN also to be the apostle to the Jews - Galatians 2:8.
6) God CHOSE Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and to the Promised Land - Numbers 16:5-6.
7) God CHOSE Aaron and the tribe of Levi to be the priestly line - Numbers 17:5, 1 Sam 2:28, 2 Chronicles 29:1. God chose priests from
the tribe of Levi to minister before Him in the temple and would be paid by the tithes of the people - Deut 18:5-8, 21:5, 1 Chronicles 15:2
8) God CHOSE Abraham - Nehemiah 9:7, God CHOSE Isaac and Jacob - Psalms 135:4, Isaiah 41:8, Ezekiel 20:5, and CHOSE Judah -
1 Chronicles 28:4, Psalms 78:67, to be in the line of Messiah.
9) God CHOSE David to replace King Saul and to be in the line of Messiah - 2 Samuel 6:21, 1 Kings 8:16, 1 Chronicles 28:4, 2 Chron 6:6, Psalms 89:3.
10) God CHOSE Solomon to be king after his father David - 1 Chronicles 29:1.
11) God CHOSE Mary and Joseph. Mary, the mother of Jesus - Luke 1:30, 42-45, 48. Joseph, the husband of Mary - Matthew 1:20.
12) God CHOSE Jerusalem to be His forever chosen city - Deut 15:20, Deut 16:2, 15, 1 Kings 8:44, 11:13, 14:21, 2 Kings 21:7, 23:27,
2 Chron 6:6, 34, 12:13, 33:7, Nehemiah 1:9, Psalms 132:13, Zechariah 3:2.
13) The Jewish Christians scattered in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, were the CHOSEN sojourners whom Peter wrote to and addressed them as the "ELECT" - 1 Peter 1:2.
Wonderful effort in Biblical Theology. God Bless. In Jesus' Name. Amen.
@Mike Winger Thank You! this is the first time I've heard this issue explained in a way that makes sense!
I think people overthink this. God's elect are all who believe in Jesus.
Ugh I'm probably in the minority in the comments but I think when you brought up dilemmas in the Calvinistic interpretations of certain passages I think it totally overlooks the greater dilemmas caused in NOT rendering it that way. i.e. if the Lord "bought" these people in Peter, on what grounds would their condemnation be? I DO NOT see Christ's sacrifice as being hypothetical or merely making salvation "possible" but that redemption (purchasing) ACTUALLY occured. It is unthinkable to me to see God condemning sinners for whom Christ died. Punishing sin TWICE, once in the son and again in the sinner. I believe any rendering of a passage that forces this conclusion is patently UNBIBLICAL.
Sovereignty and Free will.
I love the way these thoughts and ideas make peace one day and then the next nope.
Praise God for the Word. Now let us pray for understanding, wisdom and love to poor from the Bible.
Long long ago a book was written, it was called “the lambs book of life “and in that book names were written, and of those names none were lost , THEY were all saved , and given eternal life.....
That is true I just wonder sometimes does time get in the way that we read and understand text?;
Well handled.
Like you, I naturally accepted what the Scriptues say on "both sides of the argument" without a struggle, but had to make an either/or choice when pressured by the Calvinests who claimed I was Arminian (which I had not heard of before that). After earnestly searching Scripture for my decision I had to conclude that I was a CalMenian. I explain my answer with the quantem question; Is light a particle or a wave? The answer is; "Both," it all depends on how you look at it.
Wow. Really impressed with the light analogy 👏🏾
Two conflicting things can't be true at the same time though.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr “A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day before the Lord”.
It’s a paradox, not a conflict, and the Bible is littered with many such examples.
@@fidelamoah9115 It says "like". A decade to an 80 year old doesn't feel the same to a 3 - 13 year old either. A day to us or 1,000 years to us doesn't feel the same to an eternal God. 1,000 years to us is a long time. To God, it is nothing.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr you’re missing the point. God’s ways aren’t according to our ‘logic’, He’s beyond logic.
If logic were to explain God then He can never exist.
Thank you pastor mike for your teaching
Spot on Mike. Rest in God's sovereignty and stop worrying about it! Best advice I ever heard on theology and I've been to Seminary!
Jonathan Soko No.
@Jonathan Soko please tell me as you claimed "But with God's sovereignty comes predestination" . What is the purpose of God's predestination? is it some to eternal life and some to eternal death as taught by Calvinism.
I attended a church that was Calvinistic several years ago. Up until that time I hadn't heard Calvinism taught. I heard of Calvinism, but I didn't know their theology. It actually rocked my faith. I still struggle with things from that teaching. If predestination from the Calvinist point of view is true. Then that means that no matter what I do, if I'm predestined by God, I eventually will be saved before I die. So, if that's the case, who cares how I live before I die. If I'm predestined then I can live an unholy and immoral life and I'll still go to heaven, because I'll be saved before I die. If I'm not predestined and I try to live a moral and holy life then still go to hell. So, whats the point of trying to please God if you're going to end up in hell anyway. Why not live a worldly life?
Obviously, I don't believe this. And, Mike does a great job refuting Calvinism. One of the things I got out of this message is because of John 3:16, if I choose God, He chooses me; like my wife and I chose each other. That's free will and election (predestination).
There is a flaw in the way you're understanding Calvinism. If you're predestined by God and therefore, saved by the Holy Spirit, you can't live a life that is immoral and sinful even if you wanted to. Just as your faith was given by grace through God, your sanctification is directed by the Holy Spirit and you will ultimately change for the better. If that doesn't happen, you will have to question whether you're truly saved.
@@lightdk6321 What is there to question? According to Calvinism, he's either saved or he isn't, and there is nothing he can do about it. If he lives a life that is immoral and sinful, or lives a perfect sinless life, it's because God determined he would, and he can do no other.
Calvinism is a hopeless system that removes any meaning from everything.
@@peterfox7663 your view of Calvinist is wrong. Calvinist is true from God's point of view. But it's different when looking from mans perspective. As man, we are required to have faith, pray always, seek grace, overcome sin, overcome the love of the world, preserve to the end, etc.... The Calvinist doctrine changes absolutely nothing about salvation. It only gives Him all credit by claiming our very desire to be saved comes solely from Him.
@@michaeltorah4002 I'm not sure how you are able to know God's point of view other than what He tells us in the Bible. And what I see in the Bible shows Calvinism to be false.
@@michaeltorah4002You are right in a manner of speaking - Calvinism doesn't change how salvation comes about, at least not on the very surface - a person needs to believe to be saved. However that's where the similarities end, and Calvinism turns the salvation on its head because it posits God decided who will believe and who will not rather than belief being a choice available to everyone.
Mike, I thank God and you for setting me free from calvinism, now I can love God so much more.
Amen Sir, we cannot comprehend Gods intelligence, we can only trust and just follow his way. Thanks for preaching the truth that unified churches, not dividing. God bless you!
I grew up Dutch Reformed, was in a charismatic church for a couple of years, then Baptist and in February this year God placed me back in the Reformed church where I’m an elder. I don’t subscribe to all the ‘teachings’ and frankly find discussions about divisive things tiring and deal with them privately in my relationship with God unless the Holy Spirit leads me differently. Thank you for sharing your enlightening videos.
Pastor Winger, more grace to you!
With everything we differ in, it is Christ who is the center of our faith. As long as we are untited in who He is and what He's done and surrender to that, we can be united in Faith. This unity is what makes us family.
Every family has disagreement, yet they always remain family.
🤔
You are so right Mike Winger. We don't have to find a one way solution whether GOD chooses us or we chooses his offer ...Thank You for this great teaching. Blessings from Germany
Grüße aus den USA!
Hi pastor Mike,
I'm a christina from colombia
I Totally agree with you
Thanks a lot
I just have to say that I experienced providential occurrences that was part of my receiving faith. If God did not manifest Himself to me I would not have faith to believe. I did not believe but I received both objective and subjective evidence and I came to believe. For me the faith to believe was God's gift to me.
So are you a calvinist or not.....
Ted Bates, you said faith to believe was God's gift meaning faith is the gift of God. But that is not true as correct bible interpretation method is reading its context, context and context meaning reading through Eph1, 2 and 3 in order to get the true meaning of whether "faith is the gift of God"?
The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is focusing on man’s salvation found in Christ.
“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (1:7).
The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (1:11).
After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (1:13).
Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (2:5).
Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (2:13).
Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (3:7).
Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Ephesians 2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. These two verses thoroughly document how a person is saved, not how a person believes.
Paul was not giving an exposition on faith in his letter to the Ephesians. Salvation was his focus. Faith is mentioned as the mode by which salvation is accepted. Salvation is through faith. Just as water is received into a house in twenty-first-century America through a pipeline, a sinner receives salvation through obedient faith. The main focus of Paul’s message in Ephesians 2:8-9 was salvation (the living “water that springs up into everlasting life”-cf. John 4:14), not the mode of salvation.
Faith is not a direct gift from God given to some but not others. Rather, as Paul wrote to the church at Rome, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). Faith in Christ as the Son of God is only found in those who have first heard the Word of God, and then believed (cf. John 20:31).
Therefore,, faith is not the gift of God as you claimed. Thank you.
@@93556108
Romans 12:3, "For I say, through the grace that is given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
@@mt8149 So what are you implying? please elaborate. thanks
@@93556108 In an earlier comment to Ted Bates, I understood you to say that faith is not the gift of God. A scripture came to mind and I thought I would share it. Romans 12:3 mentions that God gives every man a measure of faith and Hebrews 12:2 mentions that He is the author of our faith. It stands to reason that since God created everything, that would include our faith. Also, if faith was our own and not God's, we would be stealing glory from Him when we praise Him (as we would also glorify ourselves for having faith).
Jacob Arminius theory on God's election: "i choose, whichever one of you is gonna choose Jesus..."
Ephesians 2:1-5 NKJV
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, [2] in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, [3] among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. [4] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [5] even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Dead men cannot respond to anything.
But i do appreciate the respectful approach in addressing a very important doctrine. God bless.
PREDESTINATION.
@@Earth2Flo-v6f
Indeed
I think you stopped reading. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith". Note the Faith part there. Also if you want to play stupid Calvinist word games, that scripture ONLY applies to the particular church he was writing to. Since it says "you".
It's all about God's grace. His grace allows us to choose. Without his grace we have nothing.
Amen!
Great teaching Mike! I try to have fellowship with Calvinists but sooner or later they are attacking people like Greg Laurie and Billy Graham saying they’re false teachers etc. Does anyone else find they are able to have continual fellowship with a Calvinist where these problems don’t come up? God Bless.
I’m a reformed believer and I never attacked anyone…. Why do you say they.. I don’t like those Calvinist as much as the next guy… but I truly love John Calvin’s writings even though he was wrong on a lot of things. I am friends with non Calvinist and we have an amazing time together doing international missions.
I believe every denomination has bad fruits… and yes us Calvinist seem to be a little more harsh then others.. but we are not perfect just like everyone else… only Jesus is perfect and He is the only one I follow.
Mike, I am so glad I found your channel. I have watched several teachings in two days and finally feel like I have found someone who is honestly interested in "Rightly dividing the word of truth." I've gone thru 4 years of terrible personal upheaval and while I have stayed in prayer, my bible study and reading has suffered along with the situations in my life. I'd like to take a moment to encourage you that while you may not feel that "Calvanism vs Armenianism" is as important a subject as some other things that you have in line to teach on, this subject has been a source of fear to the point of complete terror for me. You see, I am one who wasn't chosen to play kickball on the playground, I was purposely misrepresented in a spelling contest when it came down to me and one other contestant. (That contestant would soon become my adopted sister.) At 10 yrs old, my life as second place or completely out of the competition was sealed with the adoption of my 10 yr old sister. We were like twins, but...She was prettier than I was, a better student, a star basketball player, (I didn't make the team...I was regional champ Gymnast all 4 yrs of high school, but gymnastics didn't "rate." She was home-coming queen, Most likely to succeed...everything, I grew up in her shadow. I completely love and adore her...everyone does. I had a couple other serious situations that taught me that I was not good enough, not wanted, had no worth. Then, in college, I went thru a terrible situation with a girl that I now know was a witch. She prophesied my death and I was done. I had nothing to hang on to, I had no purpose, I was going to die. I had to quit school. I became severely clinically depressed for 4 yrs. Then, Jesus revealed Himself to me in a couple of different ways...one on a job and the other by the brother of a boy I'd known for a long time. This brother was a Christian and shared Christ with me. I wish I could say, I immediately was delivered from depression and low self-esteem, but at least I had HOPE. I had a life-line. I ended up marrying this Christian Young man, we have 3 children who I adore, but who are recently victims of a broken home. My husband of 25 yrs, divorced me for the "Gym/body-building life" and much younger women. This is the personal upheaval I first spoke of. Betrayed, told he never loved me, I was forsaken. As if my whole life was a lie. So, wow, I must have needed to get this out. Its been a tough go. My point is that since I was very little, I have believed that I was not good enough. When I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I didn't believe that He chose me back. I would joke that I was one who came in over the fence when He wasn't looking...that's really not funny, but its how I felt...like if He knew I was in the flock, he would throw me out. I don't have any overwhelming sin in my life, past or present. I've repented numerous times of anything past that is brought to mind, and I pretty much repent daily. So my feeling of not being good enough, is not related to a hidden sin...its just how I grew up. So, and I'll try to bring this long story to a close, but I do have two scriptures for you to chew on, that I didn't hear in this teaching. When I would read the Word, of course, I would get stuck on all the scriptures about election. Never having been chosen, and the one, most magnificent God-centered covenant I ever entered into, was broken and again, I was not good enough...never had been. So scriptures about election really, really frightened me, to the point where I did not want to read the Bible. However, one night I was praying and asking the Lord about this subject. I'm not going to say "He said to me." but somehow, the concept of a football game was imparted to me. God knew the end from the beginning, so He knows who is going to win the game and He joins in things like calling plays and cheering for team He knows who will win. It was incredibly simple (maybe I'm incredibly simple). He didn't go into whether He also helped the losing team even tho He foreknew the winners...I think the Lord just gave me what I needed. The next night our worship team (my husband was worship leader and bass player...assistant pastor and youth pastor), was getting together to "Jam" with Calvary Fellowship's worship team. I was just sitting around, when the Calvary pastor came and sat across from me, he could tell I was unhappy. I told him I was battling with the idea of election, and he said, "Well, I always think of God's election kind of like watching a football game....." and proceeded to complete the thought that I had or that I was "given." Either way, it seemed like a Word for me. A little miracle.
Now, then, there are two scriptures which also helped. The first one is OT Isaiah 56:3 "Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord, say 'Surely the Lord will forget me.'" I just looked it up, and didn't find those exact words, I think I probably memorized it about 35 yrs ago from an NIV version, but still, what I see now seems to mean the same thing. So, in that, I see that Isaiah clearly has the concept of God's chosen people as his basic underpinning, but then, allows for a person, a foreigner, to come to the Lord of his own free will and have the assurance that the Lord will not "separate him from His people." So, then, I see free will and it comforts me.
The other passage I wanted to mention is one that you taught the first verse of, but I find the "answer" in the two scriptures below. This is the passage in Ephesians 1 starting, as you quoted with vs 11, "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." NOW, hear the next three verses. Vs.12 ,13 & 14 are a further explanation of the purpose teaching AND free will of this teaching: Vs. 12- "that we who FIRST trusted in Christ SHOULD BE to the praise of His glory." It seems Paul is explaining that He and the disciples, and maybe some other original believers were needed in God's plan of spreading the gospel, therefore those who "first trusted in Christ" were predestined and chosen for His purpose (spreading the Gospel) and should be to the praise of His glory. Now 1:13 completes the whole thought, "In Him you also trusted AFTER YOU HEARD the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, HAVING BELIEVED , you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. 14. Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, (again) to the praise of His glory. So, it seems to me like God had a definite and obvious purpose in choosing the 12 disciples (yet, still one of them was "a devil") which was to spread the gospel of Christ. So, those were chosen, and yes, to the praise of His glory! What a great plan to save the world! Then, after the chosen 12 began to work the works according to the purpose of the counsel of God's will, OTHERS were also sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of inheritance, after they heard the fulfilment of the word of truth and believed (w free will) what the 12 were predestined and chosen to teach.
As for me, I would think this type of election for a purpose of specific service is completely at God's discretion and certainly happened many, many more times than just the 12 disciples. And yet, wherever the Word of Truth is taught, the Spirit of Promise is ready to seal anyone who will believe the gospel by their free will. Perhaps you can come up with scripture that would blow away my interpretation of Eph 1:11-14. (I wish you wouldn't! :) What I like about my thinking here is that it does include both elect with a purpose and free will. Even in being elect, there is still free will (Judas) and yet that didn't thwart God's plan. I think we'd have to agree that Paul was definitely hand-picked...but not first. Was that part of the plan? Perhaps. However, I am satisfied to believe that if Judas and Paul were part of God's plan, its because He foreknew who would win the game.
really touching
You should listen to Jim. Brown truth and Grace ministries on utube, he will low you away with Truth. I was never chosen or special in my life, always on the outside looking in, asking for many decades what was the magical words to get to God, turns out, predestination is true, sounds like you are predestined but need to study with a man who knows so much about the Bible, he won’t sugar coat it for you, ut if your elect, you will grow to love this message of Gods messenger.
What-If only Replays the God's game as in prayers with Him, yet John 3:16 too reminds my Conscientious effort unlike Adam and Eve how surrenders Conscious Free Wills adopted since in Worldly games whoever mind you winning such not by Rosy rules the Beatitudes luckily be unashamed of Either-If placed in Heavenly Eden or New Earth when coming?!
God is only going to save those that He predestined to be with him. God was an evil, cruel and mean God to me. He created me an unbeliever as a forerunner and he didn't give me Jesus Christ and he told me that he did not predestine me to be with him. And he didn't want to save my soul. Then he told me all my righteousness and holy living is all in vain after he set me up to fail the Spiritual Death. I called out to Jesus on so many occasions begging him to please come live inside of me but he refused to because he did not want to save me.
This was an awesome read
You're a brilliant teacher pastor, Mike. Your videos discussing Calvinism have greatly improved my understanding. I especially appreciate your approach to always using scripture.
I studied the bible on my own without without a bible study group, or any preconceived notions or ideologies and I came to the exact same conclusion that you come to in this video. It was only when I looked into Calvinism a few days ago that I realized these things were even issues to begin with.
This is the same story for me. Got into it independently without any foreknowledge and it seems obvious. Always I thank God for allowing this to happen
24:55 When it comes to our praying for the salvation of others, there should be no exception whatsoever. It should be for ALL men in ALL groups. That's what Reformed people has always believed. In no way does that contradict our belief that God only desires for a select number of people from each group to be saved. We don't KNOW who's God's elect, who's not. Therefore we pray for everyone without exception.
Amen, most people have a wrong understanding of reformed theology
If the elect is predestined to heaven it shouldn’t really matter if they hear the gospel right? I don’t get it
God wants all men to be saved.
He being God knows that won't happen. His "elect" are those who accept Salvation on His terms through belief in His Son (the sacrificed lamb) I don't know what category or belief system that puts me in...this is my understanding after 40 yrs as a Believer in Christ. I'm probably not a Calvinist 😉
@@jessica8704 us sharing the Gospel is the means ordained by God for non-believers to come to know Christ. You can ask God in heaven why doesn't He simply save people by revealing the Gospel to each and every person directly Himself, but until such time, if you truly love God, you'll simply obey his commandment.
Nicholas Wong Just trying to understand... why pray for everyone if ultimately His will will be done regardless? What would be the point of praying?
In the end my equation that explains my problem with predestination goes like this
A. Whatever God wants will happen
B. God wants everyone to be saved
C. Why isn't everyone saved
Either God isn't forcing His will at all times or He is not all powerful or He is a contradictory God.
If option A is what you choose, which is the option that isn't heretical. Then Calvinism is not an option.
God does not want everyone to be saved like the elect. Read Romans 9. Some people serve as an example of His justice. There, problem solved. You’re welcome.
@@Creshex8 the Bible says that the Lord wishes non to perish that all may come unto righteousness. As for Romans 9, well mike winger does a better job at that than me.
@@Creshex8 this is after judicial hardening. No one is born hated by God without the possibility of salvation
@@Creshex8 I’m wondering if you realize how smug you sound? Jesus gave a very scary story of a smug Pharisee praying next to a wretched tax collector. Smug did not fair well. So you’ve told us what Saul said…how about I share what God said? As surely as I live declares the Sovereign Lord…I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, BUT RATHER they would turn from their wicked ways and LIVE.
God’s will is for us to repent. All of us! Jesus first message…repent…ALL of us. Here is another better than Saul verse…maybe you’ve heard it and not thought abou
@@coryalbright9798 what about Esau? Did Romans 9 not make that case perfectly clear to you? How about Judas too?
This is a huge teaching, well worth spreading. Thank you pastor Mike for your stewardship of the Word of God!
There is another view. It is Traditionalism. Soteriology 101 is a helpful resource as well as Beyond the Fundamentals. And there simply is no tension in the matter when we realize that God did not pre-select people for salvation in eternity past.
mickey foeller :
Leighton Flowers puts out garbage and the “Beyond the fundamentals” guy is a total ignoramus who can’t even pronounce the names of prominent people correctly.
@@yeoberry Actually as someone who enjoys studies all sides of soteriology and strives to objectively represent all sides faithfully, Leighton Flowers does not put out garbage. That's honestly derogatory and degrading of you to say of his ministry. I enjoy Leighton, Doctor White, Doctor Brown, all differing views on soteriology.
@@kitthorton9860 :
As someone who enjoys the Word of God and sound reason and to objectively represent what the Word of God and reason say faithfully, Leighton Flowers definitely puts out garbage. It's actually derogatory and degrading to the truth to state that Flowers' nonsense is anything other than garbage. I recommend you start enjoying the truth.
@@yeoberry Flowers always has opposing views on his side, strives to represent the other side faithfully, actually plays clips of people in their own words stating what they believe about an issue, and strives to do it all in kindness and gentleness. This is huge and is one reason so many people like myself have enjoyed his ministry. That type of kindness, gentleness, striving to represent the other side by letting them speak for themselves is rare these days. Its shocking you would find that garbage even if you disagree with his soteriology. Sometimes those who threaten our closely held speculated beliefs the most cause us the most angst.
Kitt Horton :
1. Flowers is wrong. He presents a man-centered philosophy and twists scripture to justify it.
2. Flowers band many people who disagree with him from his UA-cam and Facebook pages because his man-centered philosophy can’t stand up to scrutiny.
3. You sound like someone who is “always learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth.”
4. The purpose of theology isn’t to be “fair” to all sides (which Flowers doesn’t do anyway). It’s to reflect the truth of the Word of God. Flowers actually contradicts it.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Isaiah 63:17 O LORD, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage.
Whether we like it, think it’s fair, or approve of it, God is sovereign.
Thank you so much for doing this. It is so refreshing to find someone who is not caught up in the wisdom of man, and the strifes over words, and the intruding into things which are not seen, which both Calvinism and Arminianism engage in. It's like they are sitting on opposite corners of the same prison cell, the prison cell of the human mind, yelling and screaming at each other about how the other one is in prison... May God bless you, prosper you and get the message out. I'm so tired of dealing with people who just don't seem to be able to free themselves from the intrusions of men's wisdom into the simple and wonderful doctrines of the scripture!
Is curiosity bad? Is more understanding bad?
Mike, your presentation style is warm and inviting and your desire to know the Word is so appreciated. I lovingly invite you and those who have viewed your video to also watch this excellent video on the topic. 12-minute teaching followed by a 12-minute Q/A. Bottom line: Yes, God foreknew those who would, of their own volition, choose to be saved. But God's foreknowledge doesn't MAKE them believe; He just knows this information as facts of history. He is before and after time. So He knows the end from the beginning. Everything future to us is already a fact of history to Him. God lives in the eternal present tense. And then, based on His foreknowledge of who will trust Him, God "elects"...not to salvation but for a divinely appointed ROLE in our service for Him. Look at all the examples throughout the Bible of those who were "elected" or "chosen"...(For example: Jesus, Israel, even Judas!) Were any of these elected to salvation? No. And even though Israel was God's elect nation, the majority of them dropped dead in the wilderness and failed to enter into Canaan because of unbelief. And then what do we do with Gentiles like Rahab who eventually became part of the chosen nation? Here is the big idea: God doesn't "elect" people to salvation. He "elects" people for a ROLE. Please watch. This is liberating: ua-cam.com/video/jM-20JzHp3I/v-deo.html
He “elects” people for a role…well I agree…just bigger thought…he “calls” all to repentance and adoption…unfortunately, few like Rahab say…YES
God “wants” to Marry us…ALL of us…but He CANT Force us…that would NOT be marriage…it’s called rape…and God can’t DO THAT…He just Can’t
God is Worshipped Round the Clock…not only for what He CAN Do…but also what He can’t…we just don’t give Him enough credit
You know those 4 Living Beings that SURROUND HIM? Ponder this…God CANNOT…neglect them, abuse them denigrate them…And they KNOW it…they FEEL it…They are not chained to His throne…they are free to leave! Of course they had a huge advantage over Lucifer…the could see the cold and darkness behind them without removing their eyes from the living one.
Calvinists talk about God striking out in Love…it seems that Calvinists are confusing lovers and sex slaves
Lovers are always vulnerable…can always be rejected…can always be trampled…surely you’ve read what Christ cries out at the very end for those HE LOVED…and those who hated Him…strike out?…Hell No..out of the park bottom of the ninth bases loaded home run for the win
Thank you for sharing this video. I found it so very helpful.
I am so grateful for what you are saying here. I am starting to feel settled in my heart that what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me, I am understanding correctly. I love the Calvinists that I know but I couldn’t make the points hold water, so to speak. Thank you for taking the time to share this and to back it up with Scripture and for showing why Calvinism doesn’t hold true.
Calvinism is true though. Free will is as well
As believers we MUST completely accept God's sovereignty and HE WILL NOT share HIS GLORY with another
HE will NOT share HIS GLORY with you or me
What is the "middle-ground" for these 2 beliefs? It's just a certain way a human taught that had a huge impact. I am not Arm, nor Calv. What am I? I am a Bible student. I look at Scripture as Gods Word, not mine nor that of another mans views. But if we look at scripture as the ultimate Truth, and compare it to our thinking, it exegetes itself. Nor is there a need to think that God agrees more or less with one side or the other.
Just read the Word of God and ask Him to open your eyes and give you the discernment to correctly exegete His Word, and for whom He did it for. You'll be amazed to find that it's not about you, me, or them. It's for the Glory of God that Christ has set us (those who are in Christ) free. Not free will to chose what we want, or how we want it, but a freeing of the will that has the merciful, gracious ability, from God, to discern Gods Word and to glorify Him to the utmost. Only done by Christ, in Christ, through Christ, for God the Father.
Sorry, but that is ridiculous. Once you define what a view or belief is, you can now attach a name to it and contrast it with another interpretation. Your refusal to take sides isn’t going to cut it. You either believe Christ is God or not. You cannot just refuse to state your position by feinting by saying “I just believe what the Bible says about it!”
So what does the Bible say, exactly?
@@Creshex8 What information would I be alluding to if I were to say that Christ is God?
@@RossTheWretch John chapter 1
@@Creshex8 good job.
@@RossTheWretch so if you are neither an Arminian or Calvinist, what is your view on the matters these systems address? There is no sitting on the fence here. You cannot claim you have a belief not found or already named. Good luck.