Stark Snap: What The MCU Lost After Endgame
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2024
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Endgame seems like a million years ago. It was an event. Watching it with a crowd that was laughing and roaring was really something. I wonder if we will see anything like it again
Not with the Leftie-Globalists still in power.
I got good songs
We had something a bit like that with Spider-Man: No Way Home but otherwise, maybe not until Avengers 5 and 6 in 2025 and that’s if people are willing to see yet another MCU project after another.
The film still sucked
Top Gun is only film I have seen after Endgame that felt like an event
You can't kill off your characters without killing your brand.
They'll do their best to milk it dry, running the brand into the ground, 6 feet under.
It canbe done, but it has to be done right. Babylon 5, for example, JMS once commented on interview that when he was writing, none of the characters were guaranteed to make it to the end credits...
I got good rap songs
It is possible, but it needs to be done well. Unfortunately, Marvel completely failed.
Having Iron Man be the start and end of the MCU is fitting. I really liked how they concluded Tony's and Steve's story arcs. Just a shame they couldn't introduce anyone with as much gravitas.
It can be done, the best example would be the JoJo series. It always has a new team of protagonists, but they do not replace or attack the previous ones, its like passing down the torch, but to worthy people.
I really feel like the MCU should've ended with Endgame. A threat against the entire universe itself, how exactly do you top that especially when it requires bringing in every character from all the past films. Answer you can't.
Nothing they make in the future will top Endgame and based on how things have been going so far it's painfully clear this is the truth.
I'd say that the show Loki season 1 is like an Alternate MCUniverse which should have been killed by the TVA
I’d actually just go with a reboot of the entire universe and start with new heroes from scratch and build a new story besides banking off a of the previous phases trying to consistently create the same feel of the past. Or references that add nothing.
I got good songs
The only other real threat I could see them bringing in is maybe galactus or something but even then they might somehow ruining it
Of course there's a threat bigger than Thanos and the entire universe itself.
Orangemanbad and his hoardes of Putler loving, straight, white, superfashnazi, incel, terf, misogyracists from just like the 1930s.
I seriously checked out after Endgame. I remember seeing their lineup of films many years back when Avengers was called Infinity War part 1. They were supposed to take a break after phase 3 but no they unfortunately kept it going.
Same. Most people I know did it too.
good because phase 4 pure garbage, worse was disney+ shows
Spider-Man: Far From Home was the last Marvel Movie I saw in the theater before COVID. And the last "good" marvel movie I saw recently was Spider-Man: No Way Home.
Haven’t seen a marvel (or Disney for that matter) movie since Endgame. Don’t regret it.
Investors be greedy mofos
“When Tony Stark finally got his hands on the Infinity Stones and snapped his fingers, I think he ended more than just Thanos and the Infinity Saga.” You hit the nail on the head, sir!
Oh, the irony.
Couldn’t have said it any better myself
This video took the words I've been saying for four years right out of my mouth. Endgame was the big family Thanksgiving meal that fills your stomach. The rest is just microwaved leftovers that are not nearly as good as they were a few days earlier.
Considering what's being done with the remaining core Avengers, Ironman and Captain America's exit could be considered a mercy. They managed to escape being "deconstructed".
Black Widow's exit could also be considered a mercy. She also managed to escape being "deconstructed".
The MCU began and ended with Tony Stark saying "I am Ironman. "
well The Incredible Hulk was the first MCU movie.
@@purefoldnz3070 The Incredible Hulk was released in June 2008, Iron Man was in May 2008.
@@purefoldnz3070 wrong iron man was the first
the only films/shows I consider true MCU after endgame is far from home, no way home and wandavision
its not just stark, the three leaders of MCU are roges, black widow, and iron man, they all died.
For me, nothing happened after Endgame. I've seen nothing Marvel since then due to that. I watched just over a decade's worth of films end perfectly (apart from the "girl power" catwalk scene mid battle!).
As soon as the end credit music faded out and I heard the faint, throwback clanging sound of Tony Stark forging the Mark I armor in the cave during 2008's Iron Man, that was it. Done. Finished.
Similarly, nothing happened after Terminator 2 and 2016's Ghostbusters doesn't exist
Tony Stark sacrificed himself to save everyone, but he didn't know the MCU was woke. He may not have made the same choice, had he known...
@@antonsimmons8519 At least he died bravely before becoming a victim of wokeness.
@@antonsimmons8519 Meh, he died to save his family, he would do anything for his daughter
Same way doctor who was canceled before 2010. And flash and arrow ended after season two.
Spider-Man: No Way Home was the only property from phase 4 that I regularly rewatch. That’s was because it was a continuation of where Far From Home left off and it completed the character arcs from all of the previous Spider-Man movies. It was Spider-Man‘s personal Endgame. Other than that, nothing from phase four has kept my interest in the current MCU. Even Wandavision and Hawkeye, shows I quite enjoyed, didn’t leave the impression that the Infinity Saga left.
To me, Spider-Man is literally carrying the MCU, they made the right choice by having him come back into the MCU, imagine if he wasn’t 😳 MCU would’ve been screwed by now 😂
Nah 😂 Shang Chi clears, spiderman NWH, happened because peter couldn't shut his mouth while Dr. Strange was casting his spell. Had he shut up and let Strange do his thing , the movie a) either wouldn't happen or b) we would have received an entirely new storyline, than what we got, in the final cut.
It's remarkable to me that Dave stated almost exactly what I've been thinking over the past few years.
I got good rap songs
@@ktbecstasy Quit peddling your crap in every comment thread. It's annoying.
@@ktbecstasy there’s no such thing as good rap song, they’re all crap.
Yeah because it's such a unique opinion that no one has ever expressed a million times before.
@@videogamesworld01 is everything okay at home? You seem bitter.
End game felt really formulaic and underwhelming, but it was a fitting climax for the MCU, I haven't seen another since and I don't know why their continuing instead of starting something new
💰💰💰💰 that's why. What they forget though is that they need to tell a good story before the money can roll in.
A formulaic and underwhelming end to a formulaic and underwhelming movie series. Sounds right.
@@SirBlackReeds people like you have distinguished tastes and only watch real super hero movies like Darkman
@@shizuoheiw more like elitists
@@shizuoheiw LOL Dammit, now I have to watch that again.
As usual you articulate with deadly accuracy good sir!
I think Mauler described Endgame best in saying that it limped over the finish line, and in my opinion the MCU has since had its arms, legs and head cut off
That sums it up more or less perfectly. The cracks were already starting to show in the beginning of Phase 3, and it only continued to get worse as time went on. Endgame was honestly a fitting finale to the MCU, as it was a formulaic, middling quality movie full of deus ex machinas, ending a franchise that had (at least IMO) been declining since GOTG and Winter Soldier.
@@rapidrotation Couldn’t agree more
Not really.
@@ramonandrajo6348 You’re right. In addition to the arms, legs and head, the MCU also had its brain, liver, and spine removed. Good call, I almost forgot
I thought its first real strike was Captain Marvel as it seemed to be loathed by the fans for many reasons. Endgame was just a nostalgic ride down MCU memory lane with the ultimate battle against Thanos at the end. Now it feels really empty.
Thank you Dave, I appreciate the overview. I was never able to catch up with all of these Marvel stories; I pretty much gave up television and pop culture in the '80s. Thanks for helping an old guy figure it out. I don't think that Hollywood has the capacity to hire competent writers, it's like a lot of failing organizations: the wrong people hiring the wrong people.
Marvel was like a beautiful lake slowly filling up, individual pools gradually joining into one lovely and deep vista. Then after Endgame it broke the dsm and spilled out in every direction, chaotically tearing up the landscape and forming bogs and shallow ponds all over the place.
I really miss Stan Lee and his Marvel.
the 60s?
I read comics as a kid and loved Marvel. I saw every single MCU film from Phases 1, 2, & 3 in the Theater. It was the dream of every comicbook reader to see what amounted to an entire comic book series on the big screen, and the MCU pulled it off amazingly. But, then things went to crap.
I haven't paid to see ANY of the Disney Plus shows, and have only paid to see Spiderman NWH & Doctor Strange 2 in the theater. And I sadly think those will be the last MCU films I'll spend the time & money to see in an actual theater. The content they are putting out now apparently Was Not Made For Me. And I doubt anything can change that. It was a great ride while it lasted.
Yep! They should have just taken a 'pause' after Endgame (which covid made easy).
THEN Rebooted/ReCAST any parts with actors starting to 'age out' too old, and START OVER, but lead with Fantastic Four, X-Men & Spidey this time!
They could have avoided this whole multiverse mess, and difficulty of dealing with the 'snap' 5 year gap...
Well summarized. Endgame just brought everything to such an epic conclusion that everything that follows just seems trite and pointless.
Nobody could explain this situation better than you, Dave. Thank you.
Marvel got greedy. Fast food content = new series/movie every minute vs. High end dining = one or two really developed productions of good movies.
Its time to start giving Feige the grief we give to DC/Warners
Exactly. He may help start it, but he's also responsible for it falling apart. There's a very obvious lack of balance in leadership.
They need to dig deeper into the comic books. There are so many more interesting stories and characters to be retold in movie form. I would love to see someone pick up some more of the UK 2000AD stories too. I'm sad that the second Judge Dredd movie did not create enough buzz as Carl Urban was IMHO the perfect Dredd. An ABC Warriors or Strontium Dogs or Robo Hunter or Rogue Trooper movie would be awesome! Heck they could even do a Meltdown Man movie for the furries.
Slaine would be amazing, as we are going through a massive fantasy phase on tv/streaming. Money on the table.
Galactus is really the only way to top Thanos at this point.
Galactus ... or Dr Doom.
Kang
Yes, however the story has to written well and they have to set it up with characters that we grow to know and care for, as we did the Infinity storyline. So far, through Phase Bore, that hasn't happened.
Annihilus
@@Kdren736 I have a hard time seeing them get Dr. Doom right.
They’d probably do better than the previous bungles. But he has serious potential to be a great movie villain and I can’t seen them achieving that.
I think we just need a break from these for a few years. These movie studios need to try some new material from the ground up and just Marvel settle and marinate for a while. Will they actually do this? Unlikely…
Not while they're making entire fortunes and pushing agendas.
To be honest, I already lost interest somewhere between Phase 2 and Phase 3 - simply because of over-saturation of the market. This wasn’t always the case. As a kid, I couldn’t wait for the next superhero movie to come out - until suddenly, there were too many to keep up with, too many to even recall in which order to watch them.
A similar thing is happening to Magic: The Gathering right now, who have been trying to make their game more Marvel-like for years, with their Gatewatch essentially being a fantasy version of the Avengers.
Also, Tony Stark should never have been Spider-Man’s mentor. Spider-Man has always been a solo character, and the mentor he had was Uncle Ben. Iron Man giving him all of this technical equipment doesn’t just undermine Uncle Ben as Spider-Man’s actual mentor, but also undermines Peter Parker’s own ingenuity as a scientist and inventor.
Finally, wokeness was already in the Marvel comics while the movies were still going strong - and it crept into the movies already before Endgame. Not just with Captain Marvel, but also with Ant-Man and the Wasp. And it has been CGI bluster for a long time, with or without wokeness. The MCU started with dedicated movies to build up the individual characters - that was when it was at its strongest. The more characters you threw into an Avengers movie, the less time you had to flesh out the individual characters. Infinity War was “Kitchen Sink: The Movie”, and the most interesting character in it was Thanos - not anyone of the heroes.
Endgame was a clusterfuck.
Ant-Man and the Wasp....where the colored villain doesn't seemingly go to jail.....pure bullocks of misandry. Oh yes, Ant-Man never even touches her, adds to the insufferable action of all these battles. Protected class of fictional characters in Disney Marvel. Men can't seem to touch insufferable evil women in these films, misandry indeed.
I absolutely agree, Phase 3 was when things started to get stale. Combine the fatigue from so many MCU films and some unfortunately lacking movies and I think it's pretty clear in hindsight that P3 was the MCU on its last legs. Endgame *had* to come out before things fell apart, although unfortunately as you said there were already cracks starting to show even before it.
I disagree on Spider-Man. Tony made sense as a mentor and connected Peter to the larger MCU, but his intelligence is never in question as he is still very smart and the movies portray him as such.
@@spidemian1994 The comics tried to put Spider-Man into the Avengers for a while, and it didn’t work. Much like none of the Fantastic Four would work in isolation, and only a few X-Men characters function on their own (most notably, Wolverine). Spider-Man is a solo hero. The Tarzan of the Big City Jungle. Even Batman integrates better into the Justice League than Spider-Man into the Avengers.
The reason for that is, among others, that the whole theme of Spider-Man is the connection of power and responsibility. That’s why Spider-Man needs to lose his mentor (Uncle Ben) early, in order to even have an incentive to become a hero in the first place. Secondly, if Spider-Man isn’t in charge of his own fate, but some higher-up Avenger calls the shots, Spider-Man is hardly ever in a position of power or autonomy - and therefore ultimately also doesn’t have to accept responsibility for the things he does. This prevents him from maturing, making Tom Holland’s Spider-Man come off as a boy all the way to the end, not a grown man.
In short: Tom Holland’s Spider-Man may be very fitting for Generation Z 😂. But as a millennial, I prefer Spider-MAN - not Spider-Boy.
Iron Man still holds up to this day. I love that movie and RDJ will always be Tony Stark.
I was the one of those who had hopes that MCU can continue after Endgame but... was I wrorng!!! RIP MCU(after Infinity Saga)
Endgame was truly the climax for the MCU. We should of all known it would be downhill from there regardless of whether THE MESSAGE was injected in it or not.
They were saying at the time they'd scale back to just like 2 films a year after Endgame for a few years, then start building back towards something new.
They lied.
Should have* all known
Or
Should've* all known
@@BlazingOwnager I find it hilarious that for MCU "scale back" is 2 films a year, but Star Wars can't make a film for 3 years now. How they managed to do that and maintain quality and continuity?
For me, I am just MCU'd out. I had watched it from Iron Man to End Game and it felt like a nice end cap to the whole thing. I just don't have interest or a desire to reinvest another 10 years for more of the same. To me it ran its course, was completed, and now I want to move on to something else.
Gamora: What did it cost?
Thanos: Everything…
I feel like it’s much easier than everyone thinks to create an idea that will succeed endgame. The fact is that marvel still has their source for all these mcu movies. The comics. They’re abundant, rich with plot and have even crazier climaxes than the final battle of endgame. All they have to do is adapt them on screen with a minimal amount of allegory and political nonsense.
I think the idea is that the audience will sit through any content offered to them in the next two phases while trusting that it will eventually pay off in another giants crossover event. What they're missing is that nobody felt like they were sitting through anything in phases one or two: most viewers enjoyed all the movies they were watching and they felt like they had value in and of themselves even if they had never led to anything else.
Excellent essay, sir; thank you. I grew up with the early-1970s Marvel (I was a card-carrying member of FOOM--the "Friends of old Marvel" fan club), but right around the end of Jim Starlin's first Thanos storyline (in Captain Marvel, with the cosmic cube--a.k.a. the tesseract), I sort of lost interest. They defeated the Evil God--where can you go from that? Back to bank robbers? Snooze...
Teen interests like girls and beer had entered my life; the only comics I followed were the maximum Stoner Art ones for me, like anything Kirby did, Conan (especially Barry Windsor-Smith), and the incredibly trippy Warlock series Starlin helmed (where it was nice to see Thanos return, but it was still secondary to Starlin's visual splendor).
As an adult, it was joyous to see visual approximations of Kirby, Ditko, Gene Colan, Gil Kane, etc.'s work up on screen--and as upbeat, heroic, and iconic as I remembered from my childhood--and as trippy from my later teen years, Dr. Strange should be on some Top Ten Psychedelic Movies lists by now. Heck, sometimes how they streamlined a character in the MCU improved their origin (Thor, IMHO; and I'm glad they stuck with Cap's 1960s optimism rather than his 1970s moodiness).
Personally, I think they should have "ended" with Infinity War--and left it at that (The Smile? Best ending ever.). But I knew they couldn't, and the teaser of Captain Marvel thrilled me at first (I was, though, unfamiliar with the comics version of Carol Danvers--so no disrespect to that character; I just don't know them--the cinematic Carol Danvers? Others have said it better. ) I thought I was going to get my preadolescent hero Captain Mar-Vell of the Kree Empire exiled to Earth, suffering in the Negative Zone, only called to Earth when Rick Jones is in danger.... And I was more than willing to accept if that character had been gender-bent: O.G. Mar-Vell was BESET with doubts and pain (Yon-Rogg killed Una!); there was no reason these "flaws" could have been incorporated into a female character.
To quote a great comic legend, Nuff said.
But I'm a Mets fan, so am used to saying, "Next time." And Endgame was adequate for me (I usually hate time-travel stories like this, and this only was tolerable due to humor--which was a bad sign....).
As others elsewhere have mentioned, the MCU should've taken a break and waited a few years. Then, restarted with something smallish and stand-alone, then gone super-weird (like a hallucinogenic Warlock flick), then kicked into a next phase....
Thank you for letting me rant; looking forward to your next one!
I'm glad you're back pumping out more videos. It seems to me like you took a little break or perhaps the all-powerful UA-cam algorithm wasn't showing me your videos LOL. But it's good to have you back I think I have agreed with pretty much everything you said throughout the years.
The avengers had one woman. The new one has one guy.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I've been wondering for a long time since Endgame; what villain can do worse than destroying half the universe and what hero can do better than saving it? Now that we've seen the stakes get as high as they possibly can what do we have left?
I’ve made more important decisions in my life than checking out after Endgame. But I’ve seldom made such a monumental change in taste that’s had such immediate vindication-as soon as I saw how stupid Wandavision was, I was really, really glad I stopped caring.
I stopped caring during Endgame when I realized it was just Avengers: Retcon.
Then don't EVER watch She-Hulk. By far the most woke MCU bs out there. I am not easily offended but that pile of garbage pissed me tf off
After Endgame, Marvel should have just taken what characters were still standing and gone back to basics, small self contained films with the odd nod to other films to continue connecting them, a bit like the idea behind 2012 Dredd where the film was portrayed as just a day in the life of Judge Dredd
Why did Endgame make it seem like the gauntlet could only work via snapping?
In Infinity War Thanos just did it to flex, but now it’s being treated like it’s only activation method
Because audiences are stupid
It’s a good shorthand for using the entire gauntlet at once. For better or worse, just having things happen with no physical action taken looks silly on screen.
I consider the last 2 Spider-Man movies as the after credits scene equivalent to the infinity saga. To me it shows that while the big threat is gone there will always be somebody around to protect the people.
I always knew they would never recapture the magic once the Infinity Saga ended. That kind of lightning can only be captured in a bottle once.
But I never anticipated the collapse to be *THIS* exrteme.
wait til you see how much bigger the fall of Disney is, over the next few months. You ain't seen nothin' yet.
VERY well said.
Good Story Writing.
Decent CGI.
Character Development.
Credibility.
Likability.
Ability to sell tickets.
Respect.
The Fans.
Money.
Marketing.
Hype for sequel's.
Hype for T.V shows.
To name a few, the list goes on.
Spiderman(2002), Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith, Avengers(2012), Avengers: Infinity War, and Avengers: Endgame were literally events when those movies were released in theaters.
What did the MCU lose after Endgame?
Its mind?
Coherent storytelling?
Quality control?
Its sense of reason?
I have good rap songs
@@ktbecstasy
I have one about yo mama's bootay.
@@ktbecstasy no you don't. Gtfo
As you were listing off the 7 movies and 7 serials in Phase 4, it struck me how out of all that, only 1 movie (No Way Home) and 1 series (Wandavision) were generally considered "good or decent". For the most part, the others were "meh or bad" (though Hawkeye and Moon Knight had their moments). Quite a huge step down.
In conclusion, the marvel saga from iron man to endgame was a masterpiece... But it had an end, we need to move on to creating new stories.
Honest Trailers illustrated the MCU in such a good way, saying Phase 1 was the introductory phase, Phase 2 was the gritty risk taking phase, 3 was the fun phase, and 4 will be puking its guts out wondering what went wrong, if you don't see the analogy then I'm not gonna explain any further lol
Honestly, beyond the politics, I think they have a real problem with good villains. Each villian in the first set of phases was like a mini boss, but we got hints of thanos behind it. But now? Who's the villain? idk...and it's not clear that Marvel knows either. TBH I haven't watched anything past endgame, Just seen reviews. I was looking forward to black panther 2, thinking it would be a wholesome simple film with a smaller scope because BP1 sort of side skirted the central MCU storyline. But I guess not now...
Kang The Conqueror
This is a problem any series or franchise faces - keeping it engaging. It's not just the superhero genre but any sort of entertainment that's episodic in nature - be that books, comic books, TV episodes or movies. The heroes have to have a worthy villain / problem to solve / situation to get out of. It has to be a bit more than their skills can handle such that they have to rise to the occasion to succeed. That creates the character development which keeps those characters engaging.
It also however, leaves the characters stronger at episode's end than at its start. Thus, the same villain / situation / problem won't be as satisfying to be presented with again. Yes, you can have a regular villain who is the nemesis for the heroes but they have to eventually best him permanently for the tales to truly be engaging over the long term. That means that the characters have to face new and ever more powerful antagonists and situations.
So, the threat goes from small and personal - Peter Parker learning how to handle the bullies in his high school - to bigger ones. Such as Peter learning to handle villains using super-tech to steal from banks, to bigger ones than that. And eventually the heroes wind up saving the entire universe with but a snap of their fingers.
The problem there is what do you do once you've gotten to that grand a level?
This is why Doyle got excruciatingly tired of writing yet more Sherlock Holmes tales. He'd run that character as far as he could. He'd defeated the arch villain and anything further was just shallow repetitions. This is why the comic book superhero tales go through frequent "reimaginings" or "reboots." Superman can only save the entire universe before it gets dull when he does it yet again.
Thus, in the MCU they'd kept it all truly entertaining and engaging until, finally, there was nowhere left for the characters to go. They really had saved the entire universe. The tale, in all its different chapters and characters from each, was well and fully told. There really was no more ground to cover or story to be unfolded. Plus, the audiences had gotten that emotional payoff they'd long been promised and wanted. They too were well and truly done.
Everything else in the superhero genre is not just picking over an already picked over feast with nothing but crumbs left. Not even any actual scraps, really. Oh, there'll be some entertainment amongst the minor characters who were introduced too late in the series and who's story arcs weren't thus filled out or completed as the credits rolled for Endgame. But precisely because the main characters loom so large in their tales, these other characters simply can't have the same draw or investment by the audiences.
So, yes, with Robert Downey Jr.'s snap, the genre was effectively exhausted and done.
For now. It'll come back some years from now when enough time has passed that there won't be the immediate comparisons to the MCU in its glory days. And when audiences are once again thirsting for new superhero entertainment. But that's the thing, it'll have to be NEW superhero entertainment and not just a "Iron Man Lite" sort of thing. So, it's gonna be a while...
Endgame was quite honestly the end of the magic MCU era that we all loved. It has never been the same since. I don’t even fully blame it on “wokeness” (although that’s part of it). It just seems that they are so fixated on quantity. They used to only release a few movies per year and the connections were subtle, which made the reward of Infinity War and Engame so great. Now it’s overtly forcing all these connections, and movies and shows come out every month. It’s just lost the specialness it once had.
I call it "phase bore", but the M-She-U works too.
Aside from Transformers, my only brush with comics during my 80s childhood was the Secret Wars comic and toyline. Captain America and Iron Man were the two hero toys I had and Doc Oc and Dr Doom were the baddies. So I've grown up loving those characters and it helped having 3 Captain America movies in the 80s and 90s, and cartoon appearances too. So despite the bandwagon that everyone likes to jump on, those characters were no unknown Z list Marvel characters as I as a normie loved both of them. So really they were the reason I loved the MCU and are part of the reason I'm not interested in their future films or shows. It doesn't help that all originality seems to have gone from the MCU, the writing is awful, the projects are now being made not for the audience but as some sort of therapy for those who are making them.
Should have gone back to the early comics and built Phase 4,5,6 around building the Fantastic 4 (and X-Men?) as something really special... drawing in Thor, Dr Strange, Hulk etc to revolve around the FF and X-Men. Massive showdown between Hulk and Thing... Human Torch versus Silver Surfer... Invisible Girl flirting with Spider Man... and Galactus as the main antagonist threatening all human life on Earth backed up by Dormammu, Kang etc.
People who still enjoy the MCU content are just happy to consoom content. This comes from someone who ate the MCU up during the first 3 phases but was also aware of how all of the comics had gone far left work and thus turned to shit. Once they burnt through their legacy characters, I knew they would be left struggling.
Did you know it wasn’t always going to be Tony who snapped? Apparently that was a controversial decision and there was talk of Steve being the one to do it
RDJ wanted out so they had to go that way
@@Bolter024 half as long twice as bright
@@garrymoloney9570 Troo
It is easy to forget that the first several Marvel movies did *not* have planetary or universal stakes. They were about things like Stark's control over his company and technology, the Hulk's control of himself, winning a war. A lot of focus was on building characters and the world, not just building up threats (to be knocked down by the end of the movie). The television shows have the smaller scale and greater time to work, yet most of them fail to feel compelling, or like they're creating a greater whole. We're told to care rather than made to care.
Age of Ultron, the first two GotG films and Doctor Strange had planetary stakes.
MCU was born with Tony
And it died with him
I'd argue that the MsheU started capitan Marvel's appearance. We started to see the character assassination in Endgame of the main male heroes.
I haven't watched a Marvel film since End Game. It kind of had a finality to it. Everything they built up to had come to pass so what's left? A bunch of characters people care little about getting their own films.
Yes, but people cared little about about Iron Man prior to the first movie. It's not as unreasonable as you think. All they need to do is make quality movies featuring other characters.
@@funkydiscogod Like Dave said though, How do you top End Game?
@@j.peters1222 In terms of "how do you top the end of the world?" the answer is: you don't always have to. Part of the problem is that they've been trying to introduce a new world ending threat every movie.
It's quite simple, really, and it starts with creating a series of good movies with characters people like. This is where modern movies have been stumbling.
@@funkydiscogod It should have ended after End Game.
@@j.peters1222 If we look, for example, at Star Trek: The Next Generation, we wouldn't say it should have ended after Best of Both Worlds even though they never back to the imminent world-ending threat of the Borg. There are still many good episodes that happen afterward.
Brilliant analysis, Dave.
The problems are as follows.
Too focussed on modern politics.
too focussed on monetary income.
But in my opinion, it is too slapstick and relies on one liner quips, taking any feeling of real consequence or seriousness out of the MCU.
A better approach now would to go a bit more serious, looking at the world/universe after Thanos and wondering why bad things are still happening and if it is hopeless to fight for good. Focussing on the heroes that do what they do despite things not getting better and people turning on them.
Nothing lasts forever, on to new things.
The only pre-endgame movies I missed were Captain Marvel (because I ain't watching that garbage) and Antman & The Wasp (I hear I didn't miss much except for why Antman wasn't there for the blip). Now I refuse to watch any of these movies or shows. I've heard nothing but bad things except for No Way Home, which I might watch some day. But a lot of people like me went from devoted fan to complete apathy. Nice work Marvel.
Phase 4, the throwing random things at the wall and hoping something will stick, if you throw enough stuff is the exact same thing we hated the DCEU for until it started to get back on track in the last couple of movies… maybe 3 if The Batman was any good. I didn’t see it and don’t know how it was received.
They could fix the MCU with 3 words.
"Galactus is nigh"
That won't be an automatic fix. Nobody will care about Galactus if the only ones left to fight him are exclusively non-white non-male gender-confused narcissists who would rather wage war on rational thought than on evil. They ARE the evil now. She-Hulk is 100% a villain
I literally couldn't agree more.
The series died for me before Endgame as I was secretly hoping Thanos would win. And I only really liked Ironman, the rest of the cast meant nothing.
It's felt like one step forward, four steps back in quality and i swear these are more homework then actual shows like Daredevil and such.
That's the issue. The show quality started to really plummet.
People were excited for the shows at first, which started fairly strong with Wandavision and came off the heels of the Netflix stuff. They then started to wobble and went off a cliff.
I can't understand why the Secret Invasion plot was wasted on a TV series instead of becoming the next big story arc. It could have been a perfect slow-burn, with mounting paranoia and mystery, and the fate of the world would again hang in the balance.
And not sure if I really noticed before. But WHAT was BLACK WIDOW going to do with that LITTLE HANDGUN she loads during the 'Avenger circle shot' when they were surrounded by ALIENS flying around on vehicles that shoot LASERS!?!?!
I got every movie on DVD from Iron Man to Endgame. I really enjoyed to collect the movies.
But Marvel died for me with Tony. 😢
Mildy said, i don't like Disney/WB and Agenda Films.
I still don't see why Stark had to snap. He didn't need to do anything universal scale. He had the power of all the other stones which could decimate Thanos'forces.
Good point. I think they wanted the "heroic moment" so bad that the writers didn't take that into account, or just didn't care.
RDJ the actor wanted to quit, his 10 year contract was up i believe and had no interest in renewing it, came with Capt. America I think!
The stones were rapidly destroying him. There's no way he would've had enough time left to actively fight back
Infinity war was the pinnacle
Doesn't seem possible to top that build to cliffhanger, even endgame couldn't match its feel
The snap marked the beginning of the woke age.
Iron Man has been my favourite for 30 years, mostly because of the Avengers arcade game. Cap, Vision, Hawkeye... and Iron Man!
It’s not “the MCU before Endgame” and “after Endgame”, it’s the MCU and the M-SHE-U.
For phase 4, they really should've gone for a much more grounded and individual approach. This way, by the end of phase 4 and 5, you weren't focused on the universe ending, but characters actually dying, or evil overthrowing the universe, with the last handful of movies being dedicated to some form of enslavement upon the universe, rather than its destruction.
The MCU ended with the snap… no the first one… it should have stopped there, and for me… it has
Marvel has NOT FOUND A REPLACED FOR RDJ'S IRONMAN YET, and I don't think they ever will. It's been all downhill after the snap.
The only MCU movies I liked were the iron man trilogy so now that iron man is gone I haven’t touched it
I love what you do, and I love the way you do it. You never disappoint me, Mr. Cullen.
I watched half of episode 5 of Her-Hulk. It was decent ... with the humor on the level of an ordinary sitcom. But this level shouldn't be in a show about a major Marvel character. Also, she isn't green when she's angry, but in the next scene sitting by her desk WORKING she's green. What's the logic?
The MCU formula has not changed since day 1, lets have 2-3 big set-piece fights. BUT in phase 1-3 the took the lows between the set-pieces and used them for character development. Starting with phase 4 it seems that they upped the set-pieces to 4-5 a movie and cut out the character development between them, and that's when they lost their heart. In avengers, you see Bruce and Nat have a bonding moment which made the stakes in the following set-piece feel grander when the HULK going after Nat, then the action ends and you wonder, will she forgive Bruce, will Bruce forgive himself? That's what we lost.
If MCU was an engine, then by phase 3 you started to hear strong noises and knockings from inside of it. It was still running well, but it was clear that something was wrong. Some movies were of highest quality, others not so much.
And by Phase 4 bits and pieces started to fly. If Phase 3 ranged from mediocre to amazing, then Phase 4 was mediocre to really bad. Even "No Way Home" was maybe 7/10, with a lot of questionable choices in terms of writing and narrative.
Media that i liked the most in it was probably "I Am Groot" and it was not even a show.
Black Widow was 5/10, mostly because it was completely out of place, plus it was already infected with progressivism. Shang-Chi was pinnacle of mediocrity, 4/10 at the most. It was not really that deep or interesting. I liked first third of the movie, then it became a slog. Eternal...seriously!?!? No Way Home had a lot of weird choices that did not fit that great, 7/10. Multiverse of Madness was a tranwreck narratively speaking. So many utterly moronic choice. It has plenty of good moments, but that all they were, good moments in a sea of mediocrity and shit. 4/10 Love and Thunder - same as MoM, some good moments, but overall it felt very forced, like trying to fit square peg into round hole. Jokes either did not land or went for too long. Whole storyline felt disjointed, with next to zero chemistry between characters. While Bale was the best thing about it, he overplayed his role quite often as well. How exactly character that turned "evil" because his daughter died, by something he perceived as negligence of his god, then takes a whole bunch of children hostage, clearly is not bluffing and is willing to sacrifice them for his goals. And then he flips 180 again and wishes for his daughter back?!!? Like what to fuck, where is logic in all of it!?!?
All shows were trash, poorly written, with clear political agendas and messaging.
I got good songs tooo
NWH for me was Fan Service: the Movie, and to get to Toby and Andrew, the movie had to *completely* fall apart so they could bring them in; I honestly don't even really see what J. Jonah Jameson added to the story, and I thought the Lizard was already cured? Also, I watched the movie after a point where I've stopped watching a lot of content, and it *is* a piece that you need to "keep up on the drug" to get the full enjoyment out of, otherwise if you've stopped for a while before sitting down with it, the flaws are ten times more noticeable, and the light-hearted "funny" moments of it....actually *grate* on you.
@@KingRandor82 It felt they went mostly "more the merrier" route, without really tying it all together particaurly well.
It was great to see 3 Spider-mans, but the way it was done was meh.
@@sjent well said
Another aspect that changed is the audience's age, many fans were in their late teens and twenties when the saga began, and by the time it finished, they were in their late 20's and 30's, when most people can not afford to waste time watching films, it was a good run but the original film goers have moved on to more important aspects of life.
The MCU ended when the Hulk's mythos was destroyed in "Ragnarock", in "Infinity War", and in "Endgame."
I cannot believe that the MCU utterly failed to establish the two immutable Hulk laws:
1. "The madder Hulk gets the stronger Hulk gets!", and
2. "Hulk is the strongest one there is!"
I cannot believe that the MCU voluntarily destroyed the greatest Marvel story arc. Specifically, "Planet Hulk", and "World War Hulk."
Got seppuku?
P.S., the final two nails in the MCU's coffin came when:
1. the Hulk became Andrew Golota (i.e., in "Infinity War"), and
2. She Hulk episode 1 was written (AHEM!).
Theory I heard is that Marvel is voluntarily tanking the Hulk’s value as a character, so they can buy him back from whatever legal quagmire he currently is in (they can’t use him for solo movies because of rights and intellectual property stuff)
@@laurentleplat333, my favorite Marvel character has been The Incredible Hulk, since the mid 1970s.
I register emotional pain when they hurt my character's mythos. I almost feel like this is a painful divorce.
Honestly I think everyone had experienced 'superhero fatigue' and just burned out from the sheer volume of Marvel films they'd seen in the last 10 years. Endgame was a welcomed finale and most people were happy to check out. Not only does Phase 4 have no direction, you now have to watch every Marvel TV show just for the next film to make any sense. It's become a chore, not an enjoyable escape.
Was it just a coincidence that Thanos snapped his fingers and the entire universe lost half its population one year before the global cabal snapped it's fingers to reduce earth population for Sustainability?
Yeah, when Thanos found that Infinity Stone, and said "I'm gaining function" sent shivers down my spine
No King Rules Forever!!
Frankly, Endgame kind sucked, it was meh at best, they had a few good movies and some decent ones before it, but we're definitely never gonna see a good Marvel movie anytime soon, not until the wokeness BS dies down.
Iron Man came out on my birthday. I had a Iron Man themed birthday, it was so much fun at that time.
Tony Stark will always hold a special place in my life. ^_^
Christ Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life ✝️
I checked out a long time ago. It was a good time to dip out.
From Phase bore to Stage four, that's the MSheU effect.
Very recently, I rewatched the first Avengers movie and the verdict is: "still very good!". 😍
Tony Stark snapped all the enthusiasm out of future phases.
Endgame's ending was misery porn for a faux emotional send off when it should've been a triumphant, punch the air victory with all the heroes riding off into the sunset. They had to get rid of RDJ because he costs money.
Endgame was the climax of the entire MCU. It will never reach that level again because many Millennials were in high school, college or young adults when Iron Man (2008) came out and matured with the MCU. The first Avengers came out in 2012. Those were very different times.
I think Frank Miller had some fine Daredevil vs Kingpin stories that as movies could have focused on the struggle in hell's kitchen. Those stories could have been written to drag other street level heroes like Spidey, Moon Knight and Luke Cage, plus quite a few others into a drama that could look a lot like an episode of Law and Order: SVU. It's counter intuitive to the concept of going cosmic, but much, much more relatable.