Thanks for this video Man. It literally helped me decide what i needed for my ebike kit installation. 👍 i watched it many timez. I will applaud you really, you went above and beyond for this!
20:34 For you speed demons in the comments that just want to see 4000W. the limiting factor here is my 72v battery, it is not the best under a 4000w load
5000W + up hills don't matter much at that power level. With a 5000w NB motor a 150A sabvoton controller and two 72V 20ah 1420wh batteries I go up hills as fast as I want. My top speed is 60.1mph maybe more but at that speed, it's as fast as I will push it. Your top speed and pulls at 4000w would likely be a lot better if you did it on the first pull with a 100% charge on the battery. Your bike goes pretty good for having gear-drive hubs, I didn't think gear-drive motors did so well. Can you program your controllers? for things like flux weaken.
Excellent video idea!!! Very good to know for the viewers out there. Here's an idea to improve the videos. Put a speedometer app on the phone for an easy view of speed. You can even screen record it and overlay it on the video. Cheers my friend!
I have seen those apps!! but i am a software engineer and none of those apps are good enough for me 😂 with ads. And who knows what else! I would have to make my own app, i was considering that!! Thanks for the suggestion i will try to figure out a way to incorporate the data into the screen better so people can see it. An app that could somehow connect to the cycle analyst to read the data in real time would be better than using the GPS. But also more complex etc. lol so that’s where I’m at with the speedometer app, over complicating it. 😂🤣 👍👍👍 The GoPro can also record GPS data and you can extract the speed from that. But all the software I have found to make those overlays from GoPro GPS data are proprietary paid things im not really willing to pay for. Lol so thats been my struggle of finding some way to put a decent overlay on my videos.
I might set up my second GoPro so its aimed at my cycle analyst, Lol ! Seems like an easy mode low effort option. Thanks for getting my brain thinking about it 😂👍👍 🙏
Thanks for the useful information. Will have to ask Grin if that power limit actually is divided between motors. There would be a difference if both motors were 1000w as the 750w motor may not distribute the power the same as the 1000w G062. Is the 750w the same winding turns as the G062 standard wind (8 rpm/ v)?
there's no requirement for the current to be divided equally across the two motors, thats just how i have it set up. The Dual Motors setting in the CA3.23b along with the dual controller splitter cable is supposed to read out the watts even if the motors are using a different amount of current. Ill have to try it out, I can set the G62 slightly higher than 2000W
Both my motors are the (6) winding , I think it was 8.6rpm/v on my g62 and sliightly difrerent on my g60 but very very close like 8.5. I have seen the autotune thing come up with slightly different rpm/v results across different runs, for whatever reason. its true there are differences between the 1000w nominal g62 and the g60. I think the g62 seems to transfer heat to the outer shell more quickly, and then sheds that heat slightly faster? The g60 takes a while to feel hot on the outside, and then doesn't cool down as fast. but in the grand scheme of things.. I think on the bafang spec sheets they say the g62 is like 5 or 10 nm more torque. But grin has them both modeled in the simulator, if you put them both in compare mode with the same controller and battery it says they are virtually identical. only like 1 NM difference. The most noticeable thing for me is the heat difference between the two motors when they are both doing the same power. Makes sense the g62 is physically bigger 170mm to 190mm spacing. and the g60 is 135mm spacing. Also the G60 seems louder but i haven't opened it up and greased it yet.
Cool topic! I can add some data: 36v 17 ah 22amp 26" wheel 22mph fully charged 36v 24 amp 24" wheel 24mph 72v 20ah 45 amp 44mph 27.5 wheel 72v 20ah 80 amp 52mph 27.5 wheel 72v 20ah 100 amp 5t winding 36mph 26" fat tire. I have this one turned down until my battery is done. I estimate it will go 40 mph with a 100 amp 72v pack The 24" wheel has an advantage of my 70 lb daughter riding it. All others are 210lb rider
its always interesting to see how other bikes perform. Its interesting how it takes 45 amps to go 44mph, but then 85 amps to go 52mph. I want to try one of those Sabvotons. it seems like a good way to upgrade prebuilt ebikes to higher voltage
@EBikeBuilder_ I have a 100 amp sabvoton. It's smooth and powerful. I haven't messed with it much because the factory settings were decent. O ly thing is I had to turn down the total amps allowed because I'm using an upp triangle battery and kept tripping the bms. The 5t motor is like a tractor. Literally went straight up a massive hill from a stop without an issue. The hill is so steep, I nearly flipped an excavator over trying to go up. I think that the battery pack is a big factor and once that's not an issue, the motor windings are the limit to top speed. Both my 45 and 80 amp have the same windings so the added juice got a little more speed, but that was it for the motor power profile. My big battery pack will fit in to my dolomite frame, and the other frames too so I can swap and see what it does.
I think each cell is 4.2v full charge? so in 20S it would be 84V full charge. So i think you have yours set up correctly. Im not sure whats going on with my battery, it says 84.5V on the battery voltage indicator when I charge it fully. But on the cycle analyst, it shows 85.3V on a full charge. I think its a problem with my CA3 settings... but I have it set to 20S battery. Not sure what the CA3 is doing. At some point i need to open up this UPP battery and see whats going on in there. But yeah, I would just charge your battery at the normal 72V charge voltage.
@EBikeBuilder_ oh ok got cha, I do top my battery off at 84.5v and I think that's a good safe cut off point without sacrificing the long-term usage but still have good range
@@E-bikeguyi think you are right! Thanks for mentioning this , i can see how that may be confusing for viewers. i will try to edit that part out. 👍👍 good eye brother!! 🤜
One triangle pack I have charges to 84.4, the other to 84.1. Not sure why. My homemade 72v pack goes to 84.1 too. Keeping them under 84 extends their life cycle. You can get a charger from grin and set the parameters. Or a smart bms will do that too
Dear E-Bike Builder: Which brand/model for front hub motor dropout 100 mm, 500 Watt & up, 48 Volt & up, strong, good on hills plus, metal gear if available waterproof controller can you recommend?
yeah the cycle analyst has an old school look to it. But it is unique in the sense it sits between your throttle and the controller and can remap your throttle and do all kinds of cool things no other displays can afaik. I have a frankenrunner on the downtube for the rear bafang G62 yes, the front g60 is on a frankenrunner v6 L10
@@EBikeBuilder_ It’s not so much about speed but it has tons of torque at 72V. If your curious my max was 54mph with my High Voltage kit.. Nice work on this video, I enjoyed seeing the comparisons.
Currently using 250w motor and thinking of upgrading to 750w. Guess I’ll just go to 1000w and keep it going. Anything more than 1000w looks too dangerous for me.
Nice set up. I want to do this setup. But instead of using 72V. What if I use 2 36V batteries powering each motor? I am currently running a 500w rear motor nominal with 2 36V in parallel. I top out at 28-30mph. 1000w controller. Downhill full throttle it wont let me past 34mph. Would adding a front motor help my top speed to 35mph on flat road or should I get a 1500w controller. Or do I risk burning out the motor vs running dual motors.
Dual motors gives more torque and acceleration, but doesn’t increase the top speed by a large amount. If you want more top speed, voltage is usually the limiting factor. Your motors windings and the wheel diameter also influences the top speed. And of course the physical characteristics of the motor- hub diameter, magnet size, etc. bigger motors will have larger diameter, bigger magnets and be more powerful etc. If you have a 500w nominal motor there’s only so far you can push it, I’m surprised it will go 30mph , it must have a controller that’s doing a good 25 amps or so?? You could try getting a controller like a sabvoton 7245 and wire it to the motor. To try higher voltage and current. But dual motors is not always practical or the cheapest most efficient way to achieve things. Cuz you gotta have double controllers etc.
@@EBikeBuilder_ Its a stock super73 z1 500w gear hub motor 20x4" fat tire. It had a 25A controller from factory does 20-25mph. I upgraded to a 30A 1000w controller that's how I got to 30mph. Using 2 36V batteries wired in parallel. Now if I add a front motor would that equal to 2000w in total power split front rear would be 1000w each. So I would be able to hit 35mph right? Because it looks like when you did 2000w you were able to top out at 36mph.
without the bbs02 it would be the bikes bottom bracket that would kind of give the pedals their feel. Yeah you could just spin the pedals freely basically. The bbs02 has a bit of drag to it when pedaling. But the bbs02 can be put on a lightweight bike whereas these motors are meant for fat bike wheels. I think its still easier to pedal my bbs02 mtb than this bike. because its a lot lighter.
its probably my g60 motor where the rotor has been warping. When i would give that motor full power 2000w it either bends or gets too hot or something idk.
This video should have 10 million views
Thanks for this video Man. It literally helped me decide what i needed for my ebike kit installation. 👍 i watched it many timez.
I will applaud you really, you went above and beyond for this!
Suntour makes a nice suspension seat post it was a game changer on my dual motor hard tail.
Yup yup i got that suntour ncx on several of my hard tails , best upgrade for a hardtail for sure
20:34 For you speed demons in the comments that just want to see 4000W. the limiting factor here is my 72v battery, it is not the best under a 4000w load
5000W + up hills don't matter much at that power level. With a 5000w NB motor a 150A sabvoton controller and two 72V 20ah 1420wh batteries I go up hills as fast as I want. My top speed is 60.1mph maybe more but at that speed, it's as fast as I will push it. Your top speed and pulls at 4000w would likely be a lot better if you did it on the first pull with a 100% charge on the battery. Your bike goes pretty good for having gear-drive hubs, I didn't think gear-drive motors did so well. Can you program your controllers? for things like flux weaken.
Excellent video idea!!! Very good to know for the viewers out there. Here's an idea to improve the videos. Put a speedometer app on the phone for an easy view of speed. You can even screen record it and overlay it on the video. Cheers my friend!
I have seen those apps!! but i am a software engineer and none of those apps are good enough for me 😂 with ads. And who knows what else! I would have to make my own app, i was considering that!! Thanks for the suggestion i will try to figure out a way to incorporate the data into the screen better so people can see it. An app that could somehow connect to the cycle analyst to read the data in real time would be better than using the GPS. But also more complex etc. lol so that’s where I’m at with the speedometer app, over complicating it. 😂🤣 👍👍👍 The GoPro can also record GPS data and you can extract the speed from that. But all the software I have found to make those overlays from GoPro GPS data are proprietary paid things im not really willing to pay for. Lol so thats been my struggle of finding some way to put a decent overlay on my videos.
I might set up my second GoPro so its aimed at my cycle analyst, Lol ! Seems like an easy mode low effort option. Thanks for getting my brain thinking about it 😂👍👍 🙏
That was kickass!
thanks mate appreciate the kind words!! glad you enjoyed it Lol i had fun
I know when I come across “UA-cam ‘Citizen Scientist’ Gold” and this is it!! Topman!!👏👏
in the name of science ! 🤣😂👍
Thanks for the useful information. Will have to ask Grin if that power limit actually is divided between motors. There would be a difference if both motors were 1000w as the 750w motor may not distribute the power the same as the 1000w G062. Is the 750w the same winding turns as the G062 standard wind (8 rpm/ v)?
there's no requirement for the current to be divided equally across the two motors, thats just how i have it set up. The Dual Motors setting in the CA3.23b along with the dual controller splitter cable is supposed to read out the watts even if the motors are using a different amount of current. Ill have to try it out, I can set the G62 slightly higher than 2000W
Both my motors are the (6) winding , I think it was 8.6rpm/v on my g62 and sliightly difrerent on my g60 but very very close like 8.5. I have seen the autotune thing come up with slightly different rpm/v results across different runs, for whatever reason. its true there are differences between the 1000w nominal g62 and the g60. I think the g62 seems to transfer heat to the outer shell more quickly, and then sheds that heat slightly faster? The g60 takes a while to feel hot on the outside, and then doesn't cool down as fast. but in the grand scheme of things.. I think on the bafang spec sheets they say the g62 is like 5 or 10 nm more torque. But grin has them both modeled in the simulator, if you put them both in compare mode with the same controller and battery it says they are virtually identical. only like 1 NM difference. The most noticeable thing for me is the heat difference between the two motors when they are both doing the same power. Makes sense the g62 is physically bigger 170mm to 190mm spacing. and the g60 is 135mm spacing. Also the G60 seems louder but i haven't opened it up and greased it yet.
Cool topic! I can add some data:
36v 17 ah 22amp 26" wheel 22mph fully charged
36v 24 amp 24" wheel 24mph
72v 20ah 45 amp 44mph 27.5 wheel
72v 20ah 80 amp 52mph 27.5 wheel
72v 20ah 100 amp 5t winding 36mph 26" fat tire. I have this one turned down until my battery is done. I estimate it will go 40 mph with a 100 amp 72v pack
The 24" wheel has an advantage of my 70 lb daughter riding it.
All others are 210lb rider
its always interesting to see how other bikes perform. Its interesting how it takes 45 amps to go 44mph, but then 85 amps to go 52mph. I want to try one of those Sabvotons. it seems like a good way to upgrade prebuilt ebikes to higher voltage
@EBikeBuilder_ I have a 100 amp sabvoton. It's smooth and powerful. I haven't messed with it much because the factory settings were decent. O ly thing is I had to turn down the total amps allowed because I'm using an upp triangle battery and kept tripping the bms. The 5t motor is like a tractor. Literally went straight up a massive hill from a stop without an issue. The hill is so steep, I nearly flipped an excavator over trying to go up.
I think that the battery pack is a big factor and once that's not an issue, the motor windings are the limit to top speed. Both my 45 and 80 amp have the same windings so the added juice got a little more speed, but that was it for the motor power profile.
My big battery pack will fit in to my dolomite frame, and the other frames too so I can swap and see what it does.
What was your motor size ? 🤷♂️
@captainchedo3592 the 5k were the largest direct drive, the 2k was a thinner width direct drive, still wider than a 1k, the 36v were the same size.
You can charge them at 85v? I been charging it at 84v if that's true I'll start topping ming off at 85v
I think each cell is 4.2v full charge? so in 20S it would be 84V full charge. So i think you have yours set up correctly. Im not sure whats going on with my battery, it says 84.5V on the battery voltage indicator when I charge it fully. But on the cycle analyst, it shows 85.3V on a full charge. I think its a problem with my CA3 settings... but I have it set to 20S battery. Not sure what the CA3 is doing. At some point i need to open up this UPP battery and see whats going on in there. But yeah, I would just charge your battery at the normal 72V charge voltage.
@EBikeBuilder_ oh ok got cha, I do top my battery off at 84.5v and I think that's a good safe cut off point without sacrificing the long-term usage but still have good range
@@E-bikeguyi think you are right! Thanks for mentioning this , i can see how that may be confusing for viewers. i will try to edit that part out. 👍👍 good eye brother!! 🤜
@EBikeBuilder_ no problem lol I'm always looking for more range lol
One triangle pack I have charges to 84.4, the other to 84.1. Not sure why. My homemade 72v pack goes to 84.1 too. Keeping them under 84 extends their life cycle. You can get a charger from grin and set the parameters. Or a smart bms will do that too
what's the torque like at 4000watts with geared hubs? This seems like a beast for a hunting bike pulling a deer cart.
Dear E-Bike Builder: Which brand/model for front hub motor dropout 100 mm, 500 Watt & up, 48 Volt & up, strong, good on hills plus, metal gear if available waterproof controller can you recommend?
I hate how ugly Grins setup is... ended up going with a BBSHD custom BAC 855 setup, that is a frankinrunner?
yeah the cycle analyst has an old school look to it. But it is unique in the sense it sits between your throttle and the controller and can remap your throttle and do all kinds of cool things no other displays can afaik. I have a frankenrunner on the downtube for the rear bafang G62 yes, the front g60 is on a frankenrunner v6 L10
btw I am curious how fast is the BBSHD on the BAC 855? Is that the high voltage kit? On 72v i presume
@@EBikeBuilder_
It’s not so much about speed but it has tons of torque at 72V. If your curious my max was 54mph with my High Voltage kit..
Nice work on this video, I enjoyed seeing the comparisons.
Currently using 250w motor and thinking of upgrading to 750w. Guess I’ll just go to 1000w and keep it going. Anything more than 1000w looks too dangerous for me.
Nice set up. I want to do this setup. But instead of using 72V. What if I use 2 36V batteries powering each motor? I am currently running a 500w rear motor nominal with 2 36V in parallel. I top out at 28-30mph. 1000w controller. Downhill full throttle it wont let me past 34mph. Would adding a front motor help my top speed to 35mph on flat road or should I get a 1500w controller. Or do I risk burning out the motor vs running dual motors.
Dual motors gives more torque and acceleration, but doesn’t increase the top speed by a large amount. If you want more top speed, voltage is usually the limiting factor. Your motors windings and the wheel diameter also influences the top speed. And of course the physical characteristics of the motor- hub diameter, magnet size, etc. bigger motors will have larger diameter, bigger magnets and be more powerful etc. If you have a 500w nominal motor there’s only so far you can push it, I’m surprised it will go 30mph , it must have a controller that’s doing a good 25 amps or so?? You could try getting a controller like a sabvoton 7245 and wire it to the motor. To try higher voltage and current. But dual motors is not always practical or the cheapest most efficient way to achieve things. Cuz you gotta have double controllers etc.
@@EBikeBuilder_ Its a stock super73 z1 500w gear hub motor 20x4" fat tire. It had a 25A controller from factory does 20-25mph. I upgraded to a 30A 1000w controller that's how I got to 30mph. Using 2 36V batteries wired in parallel. Now if I add a front motor would that equal to 2000w in total power split front rear would be 1000w each. So I would be able to hit 35mph right? Because it looks like when you did 2000w you were able to top out at 36mph.
does this pedal better than a bbs02 when there's no power?
without the bbs02 it would be the bikes bottom bracket that would kind of give the pedals their feel. Yeah you could just spin the pedals freely basically. The bbs02 has a bit of drag to it when pedaling. But the bbs02 can be put on a lightweight bike whereas these motors are meant for fat bike wheels. I think its still easier to pedal my bbs02 mtb than this bike. because its a lot lighter.
Your motor made a squealing sound at 4000W. Do you know what caused it to do that?
its probably my g60 motor where the rotor has been warping. When i would give that motor full power 2000w it either bends or gets too hot or something idk.