Fixing up an old ebike hub motor with water damage, shot bearings, and a broken hall sensor
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
- This video goes over the process of overhauling a customer's ~10 year old generic 9 Continent hub motor that has suffered from exposure. These direct drive motors are quite resilient, so even with water and rust inside, broken hall leads, and partly disintegrated ball bearings, it was still actually in running condition. But it sure didn't sound very healthy and inspire confidence, and we decided to document the repair process for others.
0:00 - Intro
1:49 - Opening the side plates to see inside
3:05 - Bearing removal
4:14 - Scrubbing stator clean
6:30 - Cleaning the rotor
7:26 - How water gets in
10:53 - Vent hole option
11:27 - Ball bearing insertion
12:00 - Testing and replacing hall sensors
15:25 - Reassembly
Old direct drive motors like this can be found in discard piles and scrap metal yards on a regular basis, and with a little mechanical effort most of them can brought back into fine running condition again as we've shown here. - Наука та технологія
Justin knows his stuff. I've learnt a lot watching his videos discussing how DD hubs operate.
Awesome tutorial once again. You guys are the best.
나도 있다
Always liked your approach. .about.Kits so it's Not exaggerated. $$$. Just a Bike. Knowledge is power. THANK YOU
this channel makes me want to go back to direct drive hubs over my mid drive. good job
Fantastic tutorial, thank you!
I'm glad I found this channel, simple easy explanations, with out the confusion of "those who are guessing and vague!" Thank you!!
Thanks for the In depth tutorial! 👍👍 2 thumbs and 🌷🌷 2 roses! Always keep learning 💯🏁🏁
Wonderful to see how long lasting and reparable these eBike motors can be. Thanks!
Yeah, there's really nothing about an BLDC electric motor that ever wears out, other than the ball bearings. But you have that problem with any bicycle hub, whether it's motorized or not.
Best video I’ve seen on you tube in a while, happy to have found the channel!
What a great video! Justin, you are the e-bike guru!:-)
Hi Justin! Thanks sooo much again for all the detail here! Isn't this just crazy! Moisture traveling down on the copper wires/insulation fiber and outer plastic sheathing causing failure! I have seen this in well depth level sensors and the same thing causing electronics havoc in many other industries! If you don't do this kind of work this one almost looks like it fell in a lake! For ebikes it's a great reason to have the large holes in the sides of your hubs! May need to vacuum them out at times but great for overheating and overall performance!
Absolutely professional. You are very intelligent!
Thanks for this one. Be Well.
Great video thanks for sharing, I am rebuilding an e-bike that went through Florida hurricanes, 35 miles of riding on it, I didn’t think the motor was salvageable but thanks to your video will be looking into it, thanks
I like the approach to the content GRIN posts it's very good quality and shows all steps to complete a task excellent channel 💯% 👍👍👍
Your videos are gold. I would never guess that water could get inside through the cables. My ebike is everyday commuter (also in snow and rain), i already made like 80000km-100000km on it without bearing replacement or any serious service. Only fault i had was Torque arm fail and my motor cables wound around the axle, i had to replace them because of damaged insulation. Watching this i think i have to look whats inside again... Hope there wont be any rusty surprise
I love how you've got Cash in the Background along with a Very useful Maintenance Video - Love it - perfect :)
Thank you for the time you spent to make the video
Thanks for watching!
An excellent explanation. Thank you!
I had this video open as a refresher on how to remove the side plate and after popping it off I discovered that the inside was super rusted and the bearings are shot. Looks like I'll be needing the rest of the video too.
This is a good routine to do every spring for those of us who ride every day and through the ( (snowy) winter. Unless you want to buy a new motor every year or two.
Thanks. Just what I needed.
I’m loving you guy right now.
Good job!
The owner of a company does a repair.... support them. They care.
wonderful tutorial. thanks so much.
Thank You ! Good for future Reference.
Such an intelligent knowledgeable guy and yet completely hands on and happy to share insightful information that is delivered in such an easy way not using technical jargon or tools…. Amazing company grinn…everything you do is so natural and logical…
Awesome video. Wow, really thorough analysis of the ingress routes of water. Plus elucidation of the hot/cold cycle and concomitant sucking of water (or even humid air that can carry water vapor) into the motor. I've found that Liquid Wrench brand rust preventative works extremely well on rusty stuff. It loosens the rust and assists polishing it. Infact, it has put the prettiest shine that I've ever seen on steel and iron alloys. Afterwards, it protected the pieces from rusting(not forever, but for a really long time). Hey, sorry if I sound like a commercial, but I've been fixing stuff for 50 years and that stuff impressed me. I don't think that it would be very nice to the wire insulation, rubber, or anyone made of plastic though.
Thanks for the tips Joe. There are certainly a few products that can do a good job of preventing surface rust on the steel inside a motor, though nothing beats not allowing water inside the hub in the first place!
Thank you for the great tutor
Hey glad to hear you found this helpful!
Opened my one just now yep the bearing the water issues thanks for show how to disamble!
Glad it helped!
Realy. Great. Sir
Very knowledgeable!
Glad it was helpful!
This manager is not afraid of getting his hands dirty 😍
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Evapo rust , is a asome product to remove rust !
thank u bro,
Another trick you could quite easily do is to use conformal coating or a layer solder resist on the hall sensor PCB to prevent any water ingress from causing a short on them. that will reduce the chances that the signal of the hall sensors will be messed with by any water ingress...
This is such a helpful video. Thanks so much.
I always love watching you videos I myself love taking bike a make weird freaks but now I like make the e power I just use random parts I find market place and Amazon lately you have Intrigued me with your regen system as and you phase runner line one of my choppers I am building going to about 100 lb so soon I will be knock your door for advice and purchase
I am enjoying your videos. You have a lot of experience with these motors. Thanks.
Perhaps put a bit of silicone grease on the seal, as it will protect it. Also the same grease, applied excessively on the shaft where it goes through the bearing inner race, can help keep water out. Have you don't a test with Evaporust on the armature? It might remove some kinds of black oxide, but it didn't for what I did. Afterwords, perhaps a bit of clear lacquer can help prevent the rust--while allowing more repair that epoxy. If it weren't for repairability, conformal coating would keep the electronics new looking.
I would like to see more about hub sinks
Been down this rust road a couple of times now. I will start painting the insides of the hub motor with enamel
We'd recommend a product like Boeshield T9 over a paint though, since paints/enamels can flake off and cause their own mess inside the motor.
Well this hub motor comes in direct contact with lots of water off-road use. What if I bake the stator at the right temperature to get a really hard cure. And what is your thoughts on using your statoraid with enamel? Obviously with the enamel being baked at the right temperature for the right amount of time. I would probably bake it and then still allow it to air dry for several days before reassembling
I have an old Chrysalite that suffered from condensation in winter because I would bring it inside to keep the battery warm.
But that was 10 years ago, my e-biking ended after I was duped into buying an expensive LiFePo battery that lasted about 1500 km
and self discharged itself to death.
Bought a motorbike instead and had hardly any problems over 10 years and 70,000 km.
Bummer! You won't see this same issue with the waterproof HiGo connectors. Hope you get back into ebiking before long.
1. How many bearing pullers, and what sizes do you use?
2. What was the total time (minus edits) and how much did you charge?
3. How accurate do bearing measurements need to be and where do you source your sealed bearings.
Very nice video. Thank you.
You actually don’t need a gear puller. You can remove the screws and push the wheel toward the The ground with the axle touching and the stator will pop out.
Don’t worry so much about the accuracy of the bearings as they are very standard sizes. I typically order bearings from Amazon
@@eastwood111 The magnetic attraction is huge (for me). Has anyone measured the force required to separate motor sizes?
@@bob-ny6kn The force is large but doable without special tools if you can use your body weight to advantage. It gets tricky if the stator jams from wedging sideways while pulling it apart. Usually breaking the seal on the side plate takes more force than pulling the stator out. With the gear puller the loud 'pop' is the side plate sealant breaking free.
Repairs like this take anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours depending on how messy things get.
@@GrinTechnologies thank you. It's the re-assemble force that seems would benefit from a gear puller (putter? :) )
Interesting video. I don't see many videos in Sepia tone!
I wonder if drilling a drain hole in the housing with a rubber stopper would be a good idea on motors with water issues...leave it plugged when riding, and when parked make sure the drain part of the wheel is at the bottom and remove the plug. Also...some kind of silicone spray on the inside of the housing and on all the wires and electronics might help rusting and shorts.
johnny cash music, yes
Best tutorial on direct drive motor repair, THANKS! Btw, at 16:27 on the inside of the motor cover plate, are we seeing a thru-hole on one of the disc brake mounting screw-holes, and if so, is that common and could it be used to inject your Statoraid ferrofluid coolant?
Super good observation Jack. This is indeed a statorade fill port that we have custom drilled out on most of the direct drive motors that we sell. It's not something that is common for DD ebike motors in general, but we certainly would encourage other manufacturers / vendors to include an easy fill port for Statorade like this. The disk screw hole is an ideal spot in most hubs since it's already there and is naturally plugged by the disk bolt.
@@GrinTechnologies Thanks for the reply. I have a non - Grin Motor, I'm doing a controller upgrade on, so I may have to try drill out one of the disc brake holes. I was thinking that using a slotted threaded insert as a drill collar might make things a bit easier and prevent damage to the threads while using a small bit.
Had the brilliant idea of sealing side plates, water stayed in hub,eventually causing hub to stop moving, because of rust. Building new motor with built in fan blades on side plates and and vent holes, and weep holes so water goes through it, and I treated everything on inside with industrial motor varnish, you can get it at Grainger, look up on internet 😀 , hub motors leak, but with a good varnish on it you will be able to laugh at the 🌧
Some people purposely drill large vent holes in their side plates for cooling. Or use ferro fluid on the inside to help displace heat. If he had large vent holes, it wouldn't have sat full of water AND he could stick a load more current through it 😁
Hey man! great video. Whats the name of that tripod claw tool you're using to open the hub? my Himo Z20 is totally locked, i left it out in the courtyard for quite a while and it started to get stiff but now its totally locked up. Replacement hub costs 140e from ali express but shipping is 150 to me in Berlin! just looking if maybe i can fix it. It looks easy enough to get the thing open using that tool, Id like to see if shes totally kaput before forking out. You video gives me hope!
Looks like a generic gear puller
I wonder if gel filled wires would prevent cables sucking in moisture ? I should open up my nine continent hub motor that has like 10,000 miles on it . I quit using it because the rim went bad at spokes. Thanks for good video !
Hey Larry, that would help almost for sure, just like how overmolded cables don't have this same point of ingress. I don't imagine that tinning and soldering the wires of a grease/gell filled cable would be very fun though. You should definitely fire up and use that old 9C motor, very easy to relace it into a new rim with new spokes and get another 10000+ miles from it!
Great video thanks for the useful information... what is the metal device you are using for pulling hub motor apart called????
It's called a gear puller. They are used all the time for removing hubs, pulleys, gears etc. from shafts and can be found from any place that sells automotive or similar tools. We also carry them on our store page:
ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/repair-tools/gearpull6-9.html
@@GrinTechnologies thanks just what I need .....well I think so I have got a hub motor it has done about 2000 miles but I have got about a millimetre of lateral play when i wiggle the wheel from left to right I think it could be a bearing needs replacing what would you say
Hello from France and many thanks for your tutorials.
I've just got a secondhand MXUS XF40C and was wondering if it should rotate freely by hand, or how should feel the friction like?
No problem taking it apart if I should, but won't do it for fun.
Motor was powered in front of me, air noise from wheel spinning was by far the loudest (quite silent compared to my other bike, new 250W geared Chinese hub).
I can rotate the axle with my fingers but there is some resistance, kinda smooth but definitely neither free at all (takes some force to rotate, a 10 y.o. kid couldn't for instance ), nor "rubby" like a dead bearing.
No noise either, apart from a VERY faint rubbing of some kind (hear it with my ear at like 20cm, and can't feel the rubbing in the rotating movement) on one place when doing a full rotation.
The bike is was from has not seen much water at all, but a bit of sand from bikeparks it did, the homemade battery case had at least 50g of it inside.
It is very difficult to turn the axle by hand in a DD hub motor, unless you have a good grip on the axle. It's usually somewhere between 0.6 to 1.5 Nm. Your hub sounds totally normal. There is no reason at all to take it apart.
@@GrinTechnologies Thank you very much, I didn't think of mentioning it, but it's indeed 1-1.5 N.m by feeling, the torque wrench I have at home doesn't go this low.
It's good news, and in the meantime I have found the Statorade injection port behind one of the brake disk fixation screws...
I guessed the previous owner had bought the motor from yours, and nice Jack O'Neil talked about this ports location on the comments below.
Which the best hub motor between geared or Brushless for bicycles?
Hi, thanks for a great upload to watch. Please can you possibly explain what might be the cause of a motor that makes a whirring noise and sometimes cause the wheel to be difficult to rotate? Thanks in anticipation. Regards, Brian 👍👏👍👏👍👏🏴
Not enough context to answer your question about noise with any confidence. Is it a geared motor or a direct drive motor? Is the noise present only when the motor is powered or also when it is just coasting without power? An intermittently jamming clutch on an otherwise freewheeling geared motor can be one cause for what you describe.
What is that white goop called that's found in hub motors and electronics? It's not silicone or caulking. I would like to use the same as Chinese
Will this be ok to use US PRO Tools Gear & Bearing Puller 3 Leg Internal/External Range 60mm/150mm 5173 ?
Hi there could you help me a eBay keep cutting out at high speed when my battery is fully charged and which sensors are the best to buy is it 41f or ss41 or ss49 hell sensor 👍
pretty sweet video... love how complete it is... except for one issue... why didn't you put statorade on the mags before putting it back together??? wd40 seemed cool to lube and keep rust away but why no ferrofluid???
Ha good question, main reason is that these motors have a statorade injection port in one of the disk rotor holes, so it's just as easy to add it after assembly than before. And for the purposes of this video it was mostly about covering the restoration side than the upgrade side.
If you don't have a motor with a statorade port, then it's definitely a good idea to take advantage of the fact that it's open to add some ferromagic cooling!
@@GrinTechnologies In which circumstances would I add statorade to my ebike? I have a bunch of 'em and have never added starorade but I'm thinking about it. Also, do mid-drives take statorade as well?
Its ok to put grease at magnets insted of wd 41 ?
Hi Justin,
Thanks for teaching! Your channel is super helpful.
I have to replace the bearings in my (1500w, 48v, built-in controller) hub motor after 25 000 kilometers. My motor looks like the same you fixed in the video. I think that only difference is the built-in controller. I will order a bearing removal tool and bearings.
Can you tell me what size of bearings need I order? (NSK 6005ZZC3 and SKF 6004-2Z ?)
Thank you,
Best Regards,
You find the bearing size you need by measuring the side of your existing ball bearings and then searching for bearings of the same ID and OD and width. Going by "look" is asking for trouble, and we've seen 15mm, 17mm, and 20mm ID ball bearings all used in DD hub motors.
@@GrinTechnologies Thank you for your quick answer, I'll do that.
Surprised you didn't put some of your Ferrofluid in it. That should help with the Thermal pump condensation.
How much would you recommend for that size motor?
You're definitely right about adding Ferrofluid. 6-8ml does the trick for this size of motor.
Do you guys have any elegant solutions for e-bike brake cutout switches 4 hyd' brakes, not keen to glue sensors on my mt200 levers. Ta.
No glue is needed for the tripwire sensors. But they can be a bit finicky to setup just right:
ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/tripwire.html
I'm looking to take classes online for ebike repairs any suggestions on schools?
10:53 vent hole option. So water can get in and escape easily. But what if you're off roading with mud, big particles and stuff like that, motor will literally get physically clogged up will it not?
Potentially, that's why we wouldn't suggest this approach if you are riding with that kind of exposure, and would recommend sealing and statorade instead. But if you're exposure is just rain, it works surprisingly well
Question; Would spraying the internals with a spray sealant help deter rust buildup? When I service some generators to prepare them for humid climates. We would spray seal the rotors & stators to prevent such rust from starting.
A product like Boeshield T-90 works great.
@@GrinTechnologies I have a follow up question. Would filling the hub with transformer oil? It'll keep moisture out & transfer heat more efficiently. Also it wouldn't damage the electronics.
@@Rudofaux It adds a fair bit of viscous drag to the motor, but certainly helps with the heat conductivity. Sealing in oil is very challenging and it will leak right through the ball bearings. If you have lots of time, read through this thread here:
endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/definitive-tests-on-the-heating-and-cooling-of-hub-motors.48753/
At some point I showed the test results using ATF fluid fill inside direct drive motors.
@@GrinTechnologies Thank you.
warm vinegar soak takes rust off like miracle, but does it effect other stuff liek the enamel of the copper?
Not likely. But be aware that most acidic derusters will allow the iron surface to very quickly oxidize and rust again right after unless you promptly treat it with another coating. The excepion is phosphoric acid which leaves behind a more robust iron phosphate film.
Ultimately the rust in and of itself isn't really an issue unless it is causing mechanical interference. You mostly want to prevent more rust from forming than clearing every last bit away
Please what size of puller are you using?. Any link for purchase?
ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/repair-tools/gearpull6-9.html
Have you released any firmware updates in the last 6 mo's?
WOW..Owner just needs to replace it! But if you have the money to give away, then have someone repair it!
how big did u have that gear puller , 200 or 250mm ?
It's an 8", so 200mm
How about fluid film inside the hub motor to prevent rust build up? A small hole or two could be drilled to allow for the spray straw
You can do that. We recommend Boeshield T-9.
@@GrinTechnologies cool thanks+
I just watched a video seems like you know what you're talkin about I have a Daymark 72 V Nighthawk I replaced the rear hub motor and tire obviously the hall sensors have a different
Sir best day i am one of youre viewers i have one e bike but their is problem it is running mode their is sound inside the hub.i already change the bearings.thanks frim Philippines.
Hi... could you tell me please, is there any sensor name?
Would you suggest a geared hub for the rear, and a direct drive for the front, so you have the torque when need as well as pull from the direct on flat/help the geared hub uphills?
sounds awesome. what do you think about wiring weight and battery setup? front wheel motor certainly helps in a soggy wet forrest. 2 wheel drive effect will help you get through mud and soft stuff with narrow tires.
All you need is a powerfull direct drive in the rear and it safes you all the complexity.
@@MrJob91 If I ran 1 motor at a time I’d want to get a little bit higher wattage of a motor to compensate for the weight in the other tire alone with the second, or double the battery size which I want all the energy of the motor to be helping me solely as if the extra weight wasn’t there in order to have all the positive that I wanted in the first place.
The only thing is the extra weight which is the irony. I am sort of in a conundrum on deciding on 2 hubs, or one that flips the bill for me “perfectly”
@@blise518B I’ve seen more that I like about this very thing on here with Justin that has me thinking that setup may be the best option. The cooling from the statorade, and again way less moving parts than a geared hub.
We'd recommend this only if a single hub motor doesn't have sufficient torque for your needs. But if you can find a single motor that does the job for your hills and weight, that is much easier and more convenient to wire up.
how do you drill a hole in the side of hub without having the shavings go in?
Drill from the bottom with the drill bit facing up, and then gravity helps all the shavings fall downwards rather than into the motor. Going slow helps as well.
I opened my motor after some year and what do would you know, water actually got in from the heat shrink tube all the length of the cables...
But it's still running fine? A little water rarely causes much of an issue but it's good to clean it out and potentially adjust your wire/cable routing to avert future ingress.
@@GrinTechnologies yes, there was a big amount of surface rust and pitting, but after replacing a hall sensor and cleaning it works just fine again
Hi there I don’t have a special hall sensor detector so is there another way to do it?
Yes, with a multimeter
@@GrinTechnologies nice so they should say 5v right and all I have to do is put the black point on that part and put the red one on the other coloured ones and pass a magnet close to it right.. sorry I’m not extremely geeky in these sorta things btw and thank you
How can find where these are based
Please move near me. I need someone nearby who knows his stuff with electric bikes! 😉
What size puller is that
I’m having a problem with trying to get the rim off the hub is covered in rust. I am soaking it with WD-40. Don’t know if that’s what I should do or not do I just need a gear puller to get it out
And it’s completely locked up
I presume when you said "rim" that you meant something else, since the rim is just held onto the hub via spokes and normally if we want to remove the rim we'd just cut all the spokes. It's not worth the time to undo the nipples.
Seems that filling the hub with oil and sealing it would prevent any/all water damage, no?
Yes but key word being "sealing it". In practice, easier said than done and you will almost always have oil slowly leaking out all over your setup, rendering your disk brakes useless and making a mess of things. The viscous drag of an oil fill also roughly doubles the drag torque to spin the wheel. See endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48753&start=750#p1106995 for my experimental test results on this.
@@GrinTechnologies thanks!
is ok to apply grease inside motor magnets ? because i did
Yup, It's pretty darn harmless to put grease on the magnets if you wanted.
Who do I look for to put a new controller on my ebike ? I have tried ebike stores, but they all say they only work on the ebikes they sell.
Hi Anio, the usual answer would be "yourself". That's the Y part of DIY which is what we are all about. There are very few businesses who would entertain this kind of job
I've given up on Hall sensors. I just use sensorsless mode controllers. I don't like the idea of bike failure due to a feature that isn't essential going bad on you.
As long as you have a controller that run both sensored and sensorless you get the best of both worlds, flawless torque at zero speed and no vulnerability if hall signals are lost.
@@GrinTechnologies they usually come in dual mode anyway if you want sensorless. It's certainly nice to have a smooth take off from a standing start but I can live without
Bonjour
Dommage que la traduction ne soit pas disponible...😔
Gerard Le Gascon
Is there a way to take a 1000w rear hub motor and respoke to a front wheel?
Your motors axle width will probably prevent you from installing it on the front wheel, as a rear wheel motor would only fit into drop outs of a rear fork, standard bicycles have 135mm spacing for rear, 100mm spacing for front. If you did say have 135mm Front Forks, like on many Fatbikes, then you could use a rear motor and dish the wheelbuild to be centered, so I guess the answer is yes.
@@GrinTechnologies thank you, it's actually a direct drive, ebikling.and I do have a fatbike.
those ball bearing are 6005 or 6202 ?
6003RS
Somebody has told this guy that he looks exactly like that one actor that looks like him, right?
Wow, you're based in Canada, unfortunately not in Toronto. Could you please help me find a local wheel hub specialist? My bike got ran over by a truck but the motor and battery is still in good condition. I've been searching for someone who knows spokes.
We can't help you find someone but we can help you teach yourself! ua-cam.com/video/3OialWggZJo/v-deo.html
bicarbonate of soda and vinegar would be a good cleaning agent
I appreciate your work
Can I ask you please I have Ebike 28 inch wheel I need spoken size please
ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html
can you link me the bearing puller pls :d
ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/repair-tools/gearpull6-9.html
So on bikes that see heavy usage every day having the side covers punctured seemed like the better choice…?
It's a good choice especially if you have a motor that isn't otherwise well sealed on the side plates and axle exit. The side plate holes allow any ingressed water to easily escape. But if the motor is properly sealed, then most would argue Statorade is better.
WD40 the internals prior to assembly helps too
I have the exact same issue having a heard time finding new bearings anyone have any let my know I'll buy them
Bearing noise; code number on the seal.