Why Hub Motors are Better than Mid Drive Motors
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Which is better for ebike builds? Hub motors or mid drives? Today I give the pros of hub motor builds and why they are better than mid drive motors. In the future I may do a follow up on when mid drives are better than hub motors.
My current bike for sale - www.ebay.com/itm/275868563206
My UA-cam gear:
Camera - amzn.to/3zhvOYH
Mic - amzn.to/3f6Gcvo
My riding gear:
Helmet - amzn.to/3szyLjq
Gloves - amzn.to/3SELHPV
Heated gloves - amzn.to/3Vu4G1P
Disclosure:
Some of the links above are affiliate links. If you purchase with my link I can earn a commission.
Copyright Disclaimer:
All materials in these videos are used for educational purposes and fall within the guidelines of fair use. No copyright infringement intended. If you are or represent the copyright owner of materials used in this video and have a problem with the use of said material, please send me an email, nplventures@gmail.com , and we can sort it out.
![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Middrive is generally better if you ride extended periods over a wide range of speeds because you can keep the motor near its most efficient rpm. I.E. mountain biking. Also, the weight of a hub motor in the back wheel makes it very impractical for bikes with a rear suspension that see a lot of suspension travel.
Hub drive motors work well for road bikes and commuters because they spend most of the riding time near the top third of the speed range where the hub motor is most efficient.
hub motors are less problematic and require less maintenance
@@mikec4308and completely miserable on a mountain bike
I seem to remember many years ago you could buy a Moped here in the UK that had an ICE in it's front wheel, so yes it can be done.
Solex
I have a 750W 26" Bafang DIY mid drive and and also a manufactured 750W 26" Bafang hub drive.
The DIY mid has a 40T bling ring and wide range cassette.
The torque going through the mid is putting lots of load on the chain, chainring and cassette at higher power and speeds. I can feel and hear it. It's a lot more than the stock bikes loading under my power. A nornal bike drive system was never designed for those kinds of sustained loads.
The mid doesn't have that concern and works fine. It's my wife's and she isn't an enthusiast like me. I like the experience and feel of the mid.
For this reason, I find myself wishing that we had two hub drives instead.
I have both, mid and hub drive. I like the hub drive much better. That's purely from the perspective of riding pleasure.
Even if ebikes had the connection, you won't charge any faster. Charging is limited by the battery technology. Charging a battery to fast damages it.
At least with current ebike batteries. But that could change and being able to very quickly charge at car chargers could be very cool.
You mean battery chemistry and architecture. I bet this battery can handle 1C charge rate which is around 20A.
@cmgeolo A lot of ebike makers will quote the mfg's optimum rate for max longevity.
That allows them to make claims of longer battery life and justifies them spending virtually nothing on the cheesy 2a chargers they include.
Check mfg's specs. You can usually charge at around 1C and not give up much battery life
Mid drive is the tried and true winner up to 3000 watts. After that chains start wearing fast and hub motors finally start catching up to the mid drive torque.
Use a belt instead.
I believe you miss the most important aspect completely. That is the rider. If it’s someone who just wants to go out and buzz around, a hub drive may be the best bike for them. If it’s someone who’s going to change gears, no matter what, mid drive would probably be much more efficient for that person. So what’s best for one may not be for the other. I believe they both have advantages and disadvantages. The trick is, use the advantages to our own advantage, and see how well we can work around the disadvantages.
I'll take middrive all day sry, dont care for the top speed I like the torque more and easy tire changes lmao 🤣
@@muramusan and that is exactly my point. The rider is the most important link in the chain. I prefer a mid drive as well. My wife is better off with the hub drive. It’s not that I’m right and she’s wrong, or she’s right and I’m wrong. It’s just that we’re different.
@@muramusan Depends tho i have a 1500 hub motor on 20 inch. This thing beats moped easy. Top speed is 45kmh.
Large wheels can handle bumps without suspension. Suspensions (other than saddle) absorb forward momentum, therefore reducing range when not locked out. Tyres will be very difficult to change with hub motor. By utilizing the bikes gears mid drive bikes climb better and have longer range.
@@scottrichards3587 I have to say i live in the Netherlands so its very flat here plus the roads here are top quality. So personally not a lot of big bumps. I disagree with the tires tho. Cause if you gone get a mid drive, get a hub shifter. And at that point both bikes would be same difficult to change tires. Now you have a way more complex setup and also more loss cause of the drive train efficiency. But like as you said if the terrain is a lot of hills and what not then midriver is the better option.
Awesome choice for a new bike! I've been thinking about buying the p51 bullet. The suspension is a big factor for me as I'll be doing some riding on primitive dirt roads. Looking forward to see what mods you make.
I always just thought about it this way: if my chain, cassette, etc, break and I don't feel like fixing it, I can continue to use the throttle with my hub motor (as long as I have power!) I like that feeling...
EDIT: oh yeah, and to just get HOME after something in the drive train breaks... again, throttle 😃
My sentiments exactly.
At this point, why do people even bother putting peddles on these things?
@@MR-nl8xr So my original comment was what to do if the pedal drive train breaks. Pedals are for the opposite, if the motor breaks, or battery runs out of power 😅
@@MR-nl8xr Pedals are for pedaling.
@@MR-nl8xr
Think.....hard.🤔.
Chan or pedal break yet the motor still takes you 🏡 🏠 🎉😂❤. You're welcome body.😊
Wow thank u, ❤ I appreciate ur information. It was very helpful.❤
I had a rear derailleur hanger snap in half 30 miles from home ,good job I had a hub drive,there is many pros and cons will both systems.
Reason why I chose mid drive is weight distribution. Plus with a bac855, you can do a single speed, 4000w 72v build.
Personally I used to agree, but after actually trying the two, I have a hub and my friend had a geared mid drive….I would take mid drive.
Hub motors lack torque by like a insane amount, basically unless you pump a bunch of watts in real life any minor hill inconvenience just rips your speed from you, sure if I lived in somewhere like California where it’s not very hilly in many areas but where I normally live in Missouri or in Busan South Korea there are too many damn hills to deal with hub motors 😩
Also the decreased battery draw is nice, I found my friend is able to get much more range, he weighs 8 lbs less though so maybe that varies quite a bit but our bikes are only 1kg difference.
Another thing I’ve noticed is the ability to get higher speeds out of less watts, or at least it feels like it😅
Missouri and Busan must be an interesting contrast of places to live.
Try a onyx bike and you’ll see that you can get insane torque on hub drives as well.
@@RandomMotoThings at the expense of inefficiency..a mid drive you can dial in and it uses less wattage
@@RandomMotoThings like I said you can get really high torque but once again it’s way more resource expensive. Onyx are expensive use battery very quickly to max out the torque and also are like 8kw motors if I remember. They are also very heavy.
@kimhyunwoo8983 You can get a lot more torque with a good programmable controller there are a lot of tweaks that can be made to the power curve.
What size rear shock did you use to replace the stock one? I haveCP rogue also
There was a 2 stroke hub motor for bicycles in the early 2000 it went on front wheel..
Hay i think the bike that you perched, the frame will do perfect for the upgrades you tend to do to it.❤💪👊👍
Hello! Just wondering is it safe or okay to use a 52v battery with a 60v hub motor?
I'm looking to get a 60v 2000w Hub motor 24 inches.
How can i fit an extra motor in my front wheel of my engwe m20? And other speed improvements? Thanks to all.
Damn your roads are about as good as ours. LIL. That's Union quality right there. Cool eBike, looks like it works pretty good. And not cheap, but it certainly has its function and application.
Where did you get that big bike seat? I's love to get one, is it comfortable? I just can not find a good comfortable seat that doesn't cost too much...
Thanks for the informative video! - I bought a Crooked Path ebike like yours as a base for upgrades. So far just I've just done the BMX handles, but I'll keep upgrading parts as I can. What did you end up using for the rear suspension? Looks different than the one you planned on using in earlier vids.
Nice! I’m now using the 150mm JFOYH coil shock you can find on amazon for $75 bucks. It is pretty good!
Oh man, look forward to your reviews of the P-51. Wow, I want one so bad, but I already have an Ariel Rider X-Class, Spark Cycleworks Bandit, and a CS20 Cyclone. I just can't justify 4 bikes in the living room right now! LOL
talaria xxx
@@snoozeuloose Would love one, but I'd have to put some fake pedals on it to keep law enforcement happy!
Do you have a tutorial vid on how you made your own bike?
just need 200-350 w on my 3K stealth bike, to maintain speeds around 30-35 kmh (on flat ground) it's extremely efficient ! and with pedaling just 150-200 w. for cruising at 28 km/h
I'm waiting for more bikes that have the same motor as the wired freedom but on regular mountain bike tires for more speed.
I prefer hub but what people love about mid drives are the gearing aspect and for lower unsprung weight.
I would go for hub if i rode on flat and light hills.
In my area there are only big hills,so mid drive is logical choice.
Bro, you need to find out what's up with Eahora's new P5 "trunk" hub motor.. something new they claim.
My next ebike will probably be a dual hub motor. My current ebike is still just fine so it will be awhile before i upgrade it.
How can that hub motor accept that 60v battery, please can you reply me the link of the build😊
It's usually 4-1 ratio in geared hub,some are 6-1
You make a damn good argument can't wait to see your video on Mid Drives P.S. I own a Mid Drive mountain bike and after two years of riding it the Mid Drive is perfect however the rims in rear sprocket have to be replaced very often😐😐😐
Mine have been fine and I'm at 52v 1400w. I ride it how it should as well plus pushing off first with your legs and making sure your gearing isn't stressing the system is why your probably why your failing your cassette drive...your problem is being on the 8th gear ⚙️.... when it should be like 6th to 3rd even 1st. Those motors want to be going easy not going full brunt gears grinding mode...
You need to learn to use the correct gears on your bike to lower the wear and get a shift sensor so the power to the motor stops every time you shift.
all around Hub is best.
What would you recommend for a schwin cruiser bike that's simple with no gears?
Try the hub. Easy conversion
What’s size those tires
Idk man I feel like the P51 isn’t robust enough for me to trust it’s strength, granted I haven’t seen the welds and how thick the tubes are, also the pedaling seems like it’d be abysmal which is why I gravitate towards peg based electric bikes at the point where bicycle seats are given up.
I have a rear hub motor 750 with a rear casette 11 28( 29x2.1 inch wheel tire) and i ride only by use pedal assist !!! I have climb mountains over 4000ft and often ride over 3000ft !! ...Use batterie 48v 30A and manage over 110mil distance !!! So my conclusion is that using always your feet the difference of hub and mid is very small !! And I am talking about almost 100% riding in asphalt roads ! Am i correct ?
Bro totally gonna go 60V on thae old G60 ❤ Bafang 8fun rock
Best of both worlds, Biktrix Juggernaut Eagle 2 (48V 25Ah XD 2300W Dual Chain Drive)
That is one hell of a bike!
@@quantumfx2677 ua-cam.com/video/xj2vGC86obc/v-deo.html
Yeah I like how it's different from any bike I seen and solves the issues of the cassette gear breaking. But it's super pricey ugh... Wish they sold a kit.
I agree with your ultimate conclusion, but not for the same reasons.
Hub motors, particularly direct drive motors, are not ideally located, assuming you have a suspension.
The worst possible location for mass is the wheels, because that's all unsprung weight, which is the mortal enemy of handling.
There's a reason mag wheels (real mag wheels) became popular among sports car enthusiasts.
You have to look at what the strengths and weaknesses are of any technology.
For ev's, the strengths are simplicity, and full torque at zero rpm. (The latter isn't actually true, but it's close enough.)
The negative is the cost, but more importantly, the weight of the batteries.
There is a practical limit to how much power an ebike can have.
Yes, you can throw dual qs 273's' add colloidal iron and heat sinks, and a couple of insane wattage controllers and be pumping 40kw at each wheel.
But you then have no range.
You've just built a quarter mile machine.
Ebikes are good at short distance and best kept simple as possible, but no more.
They should have a suspension. This is not a comfort consideration- it's about safety and longevity
Hardtails are rough on all components. You will definitely have more mechanical and electronic failures with a hardtail.
There are probably some niche case for a mid drive, but they are inherently more complex and more proprietary.
I've had a DD home brew bike that I made just about every possible mistake with it.
It was useful to decide what I actually want, but ultimately it's fatally flawed by my choice of donor bike.
I'm most likely going to go with the SMLRO V3 Plus.
Dual lightweight geared motors will give Mr the same acceleration and top speed I would get with a 3kw DD motor, while keeping the weight down.
It's for commuter purposes, so the extra traction will be useful if the roads get bad.
If I lived in a colder climate, that might be a niche where a mid drive would be better, as I could swap tires more easily.
The only substantive upgrade I may make would be metal planetary gears, though they seem to be easy enough to replace that I might just keep the quieter plastic gears and replace them as required.
For a proper eBike you want something that has torque sensor. You can do it with a hub motor, but those are more rare.
For a throttle operated eMoto, like this, hub motor is good for reduced chain and cassette wear.
"Better" as an overall term is used by people that are myopic. It should be "Better for a particular job". Hub drives are better at going faster IMHO, but mid drives are far better at climbing steep hills (particulary if there is a heavy load). Prioritize your build's needs then use the tool that best satisfies those needs. It's Engineering 101. Oh there is another reason why ICE vehicles don't put their engines in the wheels - having heavy wheels is BAD for handling performance, that's why vehicles moved from cheap steel wheels to lighter/more expensive aluminum wheels.
Good video but why is your seat so low, aren't your knees hitting your elbows when you peddle?
The new GRIN Technologies hub motors are POWERFUL and that's because they have a large diameter "magnet ring" (stator).
When my two (2 wheel drive E-CELLS Super Monarch Crown) BAFANG motors are dead Canadian-sourced GRIN Technologies motors will be my choice. Speaking of batteries, my Samsung batteries are 15 Ah on the down tube and is 20 Ah under the rear rack.. The bike has a patented frame port that charges both simultaneously. Yeah, my bike is a beast at 95 pounds but it's for hunting and hauling boned-out big game meat. It has a 400 pound max load capacity, including rider weight.
..750 watts thru a 20 inch rim? Is not the torque excessive, considering the environment?
Hub motor for street cruising, middrive for off road/hill climbing 👌
Thats my project. I have a mid drive 500w Bafng, but i want to put a front wheel Hub to have the best of the two worlds. kkk
@@daniel05061000 I always wanted a 500w mid bafang, sounds just perfect with a 22amp controller and a 48v 20ah battery 🔋 🙏, at the moment I'm running a front 250w with 42v 10ah at around 18amps and it's just perfect, on my 25year old 1999 marin palisades trail ,she only weighs 40Lbs with motor and battery 🔋 its all about power to weight ratio for me ,I still like to pedal so I never fit throttle I prefer pedal assist cadence sense for streets/gravel
I have a 500w hub that I've been feeding 1500w for the last 1000 miles without issue. Ride it 12 miles a day 7 days a week. 😅
I own a Scott mid drive and it's a blast, thinking of adding 2 hub motor s just a idea. Great vid thanks. So how much are you asking for the bike?
I'm sad that you are not going to continue to upgrade your current bike.😢
Can this motor climb 9K ft at a 5% mountain grade with two batteries and peddling?
Dunno about this motor in the video but if you help out a bit, a bafang g60 motor in a 20" wheel can do it. but for heavy duty stuff I would recommend a gearless motor or dual gearless motors since they are so cheap.
I'll take a direct drive hub motor with a shunt modded controller any day over a mid-drive for all steet riding. Mid-drives are for the mountains.
Yes hub motors are the way to go you can throttle yourself back home if a pedal brakes or a chain. And they're a lot easier on chains and sprockets. I just don't like mid drives overpriced and not necessary
👍
👍
middrive is better on an offroad setting. better weight distribution, more torque, or more speed, depends on how you gear it.
Imagine Ebike charging stations giving a full charge within an hour... 🍌's
Might go fire fire 🔥😅 for sure hopeful for graphene batteries being able to do it or solid state less danger.🎉
With megawatt charging it would definitely be possible, but we’d need a different caliber of battery to be built for e-bikes and the pricing would surely be for the rich only.
Would have to be at least a 20 amp charger, most ebike chargers are only 2 to 3 amps.
It's a cool concept. Maybe a super capacitor instead of a battery, or a different battery type that has no internal resistance.
don't... don't most ebike batteries have wall wart chargers... wouldn't this just be any outlet?
💯‼️
fwd gas motorcycles with wheel mounted engines do exist actually. Maybe thats close enough to be called a hub drive
I have a Front Hub from Voilamart that's 1000 watt wheel powered by a 48W 13 amp battery. Take a look on my channel (if you wish). After 3 summers I'd say it a pretty reliable system .
I'm impressed by the power of the battery even tho there more powerfully batteries to be had.
Even tho it gives me most of the juice when pedaling(WithPA) it does the job getting up even steep hills with ease which is why I bought it in the first place.
I have one word for you and your P51: Molicel
Also Raleigh Cyclemaster
I would take Mid drive motors over overhub drives all day long. I have both and I would never Ever take a hub drive over the mid drive.
I have a Bafang 1000w watt nominal hub drive On a full suspension.
E- Mountain bike.
And a Bafang M620./g510. Mid drive In a e emountain bike, full suspension.
And these are not my first of either.
Mid drive is in a world of its own, much better mannerisms, power band, feel,
Both are great.
Methods for propulsion, But in my opinion mid drive is supreme.
You are driving around on flat grounds. You don't do steep hills with for example 20 % gradient. Then hub motors are okay.
Have you not upgraded your forks and headset to an air suspension / threadless yet ?
I'm just about to do this, loads to learn. :)
@@fraserthomson5766 good luck homie 🤞🏻
@@lifeonmyowntermsx1 I know right? The first hurdle is a new fork, then trying to find a 44mm integrated headset, then finding out you'll also need a top cover, then importing the X1 Stem and BMX stem from Italy for folding BMX style bars, then finding out you'll need a few spacers in the fork, then finding out you won't be riding anywhere soon coz the Himalo air shocks won't arrive until Sep 7th!! Arghhh. Must admit, those threaded forks and open ball bearings are rubbish and possibly dangerous.
@@fraserthomson5766 1/1 8 headset and 20 x 4.0 air suspension forks
Regular bmx stem and bars and that’s it
@@lifeonmyowntermsx1 9 or 10"?
I'm surprised that you only went with a 15ah battery for your custom 72v battery build.
largest I could get inside a lock age hard case. that’s why I might go double
Yeah well if tire flats happen more then drivetrains breaking so id rather take a middrive, do good maintenance and know what needs to be serviced. Plus the torque is better for getting past traffic, better then any hub for hills or dodging crazy drivers lol.hub motors are slow initially especially hills, top end is the best but still,.just to slow for me. dont care for top speed, unless you have lots of room. yeah sure geared is getting more popular but not rn im looking for a big fish not mediocre snake oil these companies sell you. Ill take my bafang bbs02 52v 17ah at 35mph and 60mi of range. But sure am looking at the talaria xxx or mx4 system rn with pedel mod got the power itch 😂
1:50 is it possible because of brushless motors.
Not brush motors that's what you have in the pic.
Hub motors are great for on road bikes but because of the weight on the rear wheel hub motors suck off road. Yes, you have ride a hub motor off road but not doing what a mid drive mountain bike can do....not even close.
What are the best hub motor makers in 2023?
QS Motors. QS 205 V3 specifically.
You can order one with a winding matched to your target speed.
So you have to spend $3000 to get a suspension. And then spend more after you get it. Total ripoff on the seat situation and suspension. I get put one heck of a racing suspension for about $3,000 on my car too. The difference, much more weight, and 4 tires not too. Why bike suspension and seat so expensive?
Id love to find a 30amp controller that'll fit inside this frame, my controller is 17a and rubbish on hills..
i think a mid drive would be a bad choice for you because you never peddle i watch all your videos and i never see you peddle
Lol, I like not having to pedal. You can get through some areas without feeling like a slog.
But yeah, you can overdo it a lot, with hub motors.
TLDR:
Hub motors are best if you plan to mostly ride on flat roads.
Mid drive motors are best if you like to offroad or go up steeper hills.
Why didn't you get a WALLKE
7:38 Tight tolerances are TIGHT!
lol you just grab and feel the break rotor with your fingers... i winced
Yea idk how ur still using that bike whey it said sold and that was almost a month or 2 ago. I do hope the new one u ordered is what u were looking for. Have a good day and thanks for the information.
Hub motors are the best.. .. I am a scientist.
⚡🤙🏼🤙🏼⚡
Dude that bike is faster than 30 mph per the ebike on ebay
I'm not taking sides but hub motors are better.
I decided a long time ago that hub drive is definitely better for me.
Your title is misleading.
hub motors are better than mid drive.
Then in the video you say, hub motors might be better than mid drive.
Consistency is key.
Gasoline powered combustion engines, can theoretically run creating without pollution. 4 stroke engines anyway. 2 stroke, nope can do. But that tech isn't offered to the public? Ever think why? Probably because it would actually greatly benefit people and the earth if you did. It's our money, we should demand more. It's ridiculous that we as humans have to live with the attitude : "2 out of 3 ain't bad".Ain't bad ain't good either.
To me the main advantage to a hub drive is if you break your chain you can still get home. That being said, how many of us have ever broken a chain? With my AWD I could get home anyway with the front motor. So maybe the best setup would be hub on front and mid drive on back and then you have the best of both worlds 🤪
Why would you need 2 motors
A hub motor has ( no ) transmission A mad drive motor works like a real transmission Any time got a ( real ) transmission you got much more ( power ) Up any ( Hills )
You didn’t peddle at all
"promosm"
Hub motors are easier to use but they’re not as efficient
One word: COST.
Pulls up next to a cop...no fugs given 😅😂😅
please stay on topic. this video was way longer than it needed to be
Unsprung weight, Once they figure out hub motors for cars it will change everything.
Who cares about unsprung weight?
You take a 60 volt hub vs a 60 volt mid. The mid performs like a 60 volt and never loses speed. The hub feels like a 52 volt system because you don't maintain those max speeds for long. Just get a Talaria xxx and move on with your day. Don't buy these cheap ass china hub bikes. lol
motors do not care about volts.
Keep in mind this guy knows next to nothing about motors or bike design. Hub motor's are a much worse choice for a number of reasons. Such as unsprung weight. Something you want to avoid at all costs in bike design. Electric motor's are really low on torque and efficiency when turning slowly.. exactly what they are forced to do in a wheel..
"It's just not possible with an ICE"...except all those times when it's been done.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RevoPower
If you really want power you get a QS 205 or a QS 273 hub motor! No midrive can even come close to the power levels these can reach! Not even climbing!
Hub motor is more efficient and much better option for average RIDER with throtle READY to move from the sudden stop without time to change gears.
If you change gears like with mid drive where you have to do, hub motor flies over hills too.
If you cannot figure out 100% why you need mid drive YOU DO NOT NEED MID DRIVE.