LGBTQ+ Against God's Design? Progressive VS Conservative Christian (Part 1)
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2020
- A progressive Christian and a conservative Christian came together to see if they could discuss human sexuality with authenticity, love, and truthfulness. Can they overcome the stigma and speak to one another with understanding?
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@colbymartin: / colbymartin
@profstrachan: / profstrachan
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As a man who has struggled with homosexuality all my life, at times I wanted to accept that I could go to heaven if I were to pursue that lifestyle. The more I wanted to accept I could be gay the more I was convicted and the angrier I became at God. I eventually strayed from religion all together for YEARS. Now I’m 21, still pretty young, but I gave my life back to God on November 1st. I still struggle with same sex attraction, frankly I think I’m going to struggle with it for a while but that’s not my worries right now. I give God thanks for giving me that free will but I give it back to him because anything not for him I do not want.
Hey!! I saw your comment and I feel so inadequate when writing this, scared I do not have the right words you might need. I am praying the Lord will guide me and use me as an encouragement. I just wanted to say you are loved and seen and not alone in your struggle. My soul rejoices in the fact you gave your life to God and living for Him again! The Lord is with you and you are under no obligation to live according to your flesh. (Romans 8:12) The Lord is your strength and loves you. Lean into Him and through trials you will build endurance. I am praying for you❤️don’t give up
Thank you for sharing xchorro. God is good and worth more than all the world has to offer - even infinitely so. Glad to hear you have given your life to Christ. If you are His child, by faith, He will keep you to the end. He does not lose any of His sheep. Trust in God alone through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Wonderful testimony, brother. When you draw nigh to God, He will draw nigh to you. As you go through sanctification, I can only pray that it will become easier for you, or at least more of an automatic habit to reject the sinful thoughts..
Amen!
God bless you, stay on the right path!
This is a conversation between a Christian and a non-Christian
Completely agree!
Yup
Nah
@@matthewberg3584 yep it is
I completely agree. At one point I think the progressive guy said something about man being a single celled organism, which sounds like a promotion to Evolution? Maybe I heard him wrong, but either way there is nothing progressive about true faith in Christ. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever”. Hebrews 13:8
Ill summarize: The Conservative takes the bible and applies it to his world view. The "progressive" takes his world view and applies it to the bible.
I don't understand why the NEW Evangelical views are considered conservative. The word "New" represents a new teaching that is more than just progressive it is digressive. It changes the direction of Christianity. I have read all the early Christians and the New Evangelicals definitely use the Bible to support their world view.
Exactly!!!
@Gefffh Honckull and you believe that something came from nothing.
@Gefffh Honckull I'm not convinced of that.
@Gefffh Honckull that you don't care!
I struggle with my sexuality, I am a Christian and I completely agree with the “conservative” Christian on every word.
Welcome to life.
We all struggle with one thing or another. For some it's sexuality and for others it's something else.
Stay the course and continue to call on the One who gave Himself for you. Even when we slip, give in, fall short, or whatever, call out to Him.
When we are weak, He is strong. When our faith falters, His remains. He is our advocate and sustainer. If we didn't struggle and face defeat from time to time, we would not need One who stands on our behalf.
The fact that your struggle with this is a good sign that the author of our salvation is at work.
Stay strong in the Lord friend.
Blessings to you and know that I am praying for you right now 🙏
The first step is admitting! Way to be proactive and be aware of that
You need to accept yourself, be gay/bi it's you
@@peterwilkins507 i don’t have to, my desires don’t define my identity Peter. My identity is given by Jesus.
Self hatred is a struggle
““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.”
Matthew 7:13
Facts!
Funny how folks from every Christian denomination uses passages like this to condemn anyone from any other Christian denomination. How do you know your version is the right one?
@@theroguejester6412
Because denomination is seperation. Where do you read about other denominations in the bible? Wasnt Paul upset that people were claiming to be from different men and he said is Christ divided? Christ is not divided, the only division is between those who serve God and serve satan.
Major Wolf Historical records get more shoddy and harder to find and interpret the farther back we go. The question remains, how do we determine who’s interpretation of events and Biblical commands is correct?
Kc Hamilton There are 40,000 different denominations of Christianity. Which one is true and correct and how do you know?
Progressive Christian: “For me.. I think... my opinion... etc...”
Biblical Christian: “God said.”
Amen.
Facts! ✝️❤️🙌🏾
@@oj5015 For clarity 100% of the Bible was written by man. 🤭 All those men were filled with the presence of our Holy God so that ALL of the word of God is God inspired and God breathed. And scripture is extremely clear about it being from Gods eternal standards.
@@oj5015 back then it was different than it is now, genius.
@@oj5015 you clearly haven’t read the New Testament, think before you comment.
Instead of bashing this guy in the comments for his misguided views, let’s pray for him that God will reveal to him the truth
Amen!
Is correcting and using scripture bashing? We can love and correct as we are called to. 2 Timothy 3:16.
If he holds any leadership position in the church he must be robustly corrected.
The issue is that he is a false prophet, so he is leading people to eternal damnation. You can't treat a false teacher with grace.
@@natepickering Bashing him isn’t going to solve anything. Bashing him isn’t going to convince anyone he’s leading them to hell. If you actually care, you’d do something a bit more creative
“I don’t think there’s a designed document that lays out an order of things” Umm how about the word of God?
Imagine unironically thinking the bible is actually the "word of god" tho 🤡
@@vercingetorixarverni6343 well it is soo...
@@jacobwood614 are you sure because your God is supposed to be forgiving, fair and anti homophobic yet the bible is the opposite
@@caramelgumdrop393 dw I know it isn’t 😂
I don’t believe in God but I was referring to ppl who do
@@jacobwood614 it is a word of God. God didn’t stop speaking. His most powerful and sharpest one is the one we are living in. He spoke the universe into motion.
The church certainly hurts those who love their sin more than the truth. The truth hurts.
I don’t think the truth “hurts” in the way the pastor described people being injured by conservative churches. The truth saves. If people are living a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God, then the truth is the most loving thing we can give them because we want them to repent and not spend eternity in damnation.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 Is Yahoshua Hamashiac wasn’t God, then (1) why did he accept praise on numerous occasions, as well as (2) claim “Before Abraham, I am”.
To the second point, I’ll give you the answer. God told Moses his name was Ehyah ashen Ehyah, the Hebrew for “Iam that I am/I am who I am.”
@Matt Thoen
Who is Jesus’s God?’
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says
Rom 15
6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2 Cor 11
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie.
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Col 1
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
@@andriod090
Who is Jesus’s God?
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.”
"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Amen
Amen
I think this verse is very true for those who tell people to simply say some magic words and they are saved.
NEW Evangelical teach that all you have to do is say some magic words and you can be saved from God's punishment. They follow there own desires becoming gluttons, storing treasures on earth.
Just curious, do you or someone you know not follow your own desires sometimes! Are you one of those holier than thou! See the problem is that I do get that progressive christianity does not have a solid foundation but are you gonna tell me that the alternative is self rightous talk!
“I don’t think there is a divine document out there that lays out the order of things.” The Bible????
The Suma Theologica, Casti Cannoubi, Humanae Vitae, Mere Christianity
Exactly my thoughts when he said that lol
That's EXACTLY what I said. Lbvs
i'd put that right in its obvious context and ask why you asperse a guy when his meaning is clear
I wonder what he preaches if he doesn’t believe in the Bible.
When Jesus warned us of false prophets, he wasn’t joking.
No kidding 🤯 you can tell even as they talk the guy in the light shirt uses scripture while the other guy doesn’t.
@@markwindell3898 If you use Scripture in a way that harms others to the point where they hurt or even kill themselves because they don't even feel worthy of love, how can you sit there and call yourself a follower of Christ? "Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law..."
@@markwindell3898 Even Satan knows scripture but he twisted and CAN twist the truth just like Satan twisted the truth at the garden of Eden!!!
Yeah, I kind of feel sorry for the bearded dude. He doesn't know what he believes
@@theroguejester6412 try taking away a needle from a heroin addict. They will certainly be pissed off, and may even end their lives but doesn’t mean what you’ve done was to harm - in fact, it was to do the opposite. You may not be doing harm to someone by leaving them to do what they want but you are certainly allowing them to harm themselves, which isn’t particularly loving.
"I don't feel any of that is true"
The truth doesn't care how you feel about it. It doesn't make it less true.
The heart is deceitful.
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ua-cam.com/video/wo8BRa8od7o/v-deo.html
@@mrcolbymartin "I think" God is going to correct you. I know the Bible says so as well.
Murdering babies lying in their cribs isn't moral. Sneaking in to someone's home and killing them, and proclaiming all their lands and possessions to be a gift from God is wrong no matter what book says it is good. That is absolutely true.
Conservatism advocates the destruction of the earth, through greed and violence. One good passage from the bible states that God will destroy all those who destroy the earth. But conservatives cling to the idea that they should poison everything and kill all living things for their pleasure.
The arrogance and violence of conservatism will absolutely be its demise.
@@dr.graves5541 lmao how many grams of whatever drug you're on did you take before you internetted today?
The whole time I’m wondering why the bearded man calls himself a pastor when he seems more confused about the gospel than a lay person.
I m not here to comment on theology but just embracing the respect and honour that these two have for each other. I wish we could have more people like this in this world where we could share our opinions, believe, faith and conviction in this manner. Thanks for sharing this conversation!
“I can sign off on God’s design for sexuality, if I’m allowed to have my own ways of thinking about it”... That right there is the core “issue”.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 there will come a day and not too far from now when you will wander over UA-cam searching for these comments you make. Desiring strongly to delete them all.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).
Philippians 2:5-8
John 1
Colossians 1:13-20
@@mitchellc4 youve missed the full counsel of God (as we learn from Acts and 2 Timothy) on who Jesus is as Messiah; you are partly right but gravely wrong. I agree with Quinner 85's verses as help as to why Jesus is both God and man (God can die and not die) while he was on earth (on His own humble accord as we learn from Hebrews).
Respectfully, "PROGRESSIVE Christianity" IS NOT Christianity...its something that wants to appear spiritual without actually being accountable to the standards and truths in God's Word. Sorry, but the truth of God's Word makes people uncomfortable, and angry and put-off as it should because it makes us aware of our biggest problem - which is sin.
Yes! 🙏🏼
Amen
Perfect comment
Perfectly said. God Bless!
Well said.
The bearded guy sounds like me, when I was an agnostic 14 year old, high on pot, who thought I knew the answers of the universe 😳 😅
Yep sounds about right
So back then you new the answers but now you don't the answers?
I love this comment 🤣🤣🤣
Pretty much the same for me I got out of it a couple years back I’m still a teen but before I would make my own image of god to make myself feel comfortable in sin because the truth does hurt when you become comfortable in sin
@@nelsontorres6820 Your not into worshiping idols so Roman's chapter 1 does not apply
Regardless of the opinions and reactions we would all experience in this conversation, the absolute breakthrough is the conversation happening. These are real questions that deserve exploration and answer. It's not dangerous to ask. It's a wonderful first step to the truth and freedom.
Hi Deb
IT is not a real question....The bible is clear. Believe it or dont.
I'm confused! Why do people preach but don't even believe half of the things in the word of God??
Hes Committing the sin of Thyatira or Pergamum in Revelation
Welcome to contemporary evangelical christianity.
I know. Change your day job. It doesn’t make sense. But honestly this is all Satan
A lot of Bible “scholars” and “theologians” teach that the Bible is not infallible, and a LOT of pastors take these teachings and believe them to be true. If you watch Michael Hoggard’s video on The Case For A Pure Bible, he talks about why people believe this way and refutes it. It’s a must watch!
Because they are not called by God. They have Bible school certificates but not certificate from above. Heaven doesn't know them.
You know its sad because I didn't know I was being progressive. I was being led by my emotions and now I'm glad the Lord has put this intense desire to be in the word and has called me out of the lie I was in. It has taken time but he is patient, I'm now seeing this and all I can say if pray for this man who believes a lie and may God have mercy
Such an awesome testimony!!
Amen!
How did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
The fact that the Lord hates sin and that will never change. When you are at a place where all they care about is the #'s and start saying things like "Jesus paid for all your sins, so if you sin thats ok, no biggie" thats a huge issue. I was, like the scriptures say, going after my own lusts and views, seeking after teachings that my itching ears wanted to hear turning away from the truth. If you are not willing to let go of sin in your life, then you are not believing in the Jesus who died to be the salvation for humanity. The bible does not contradict itself, Jesus was in the beginning with God and Holy Spirit and they made male and female.
@@calb4650 First of all, there are plenty of Biblical contradictions. The first two chapters of Genesis tell contradictory creation stories. Also, I'm curious why God grants sexually fulfilling relationships to straight people but not to gay people. Why is a relationship only a sin when a gay person desires it?
This is more new age atheism than "progressive" Christianity
Believing in God isn't atheism
Right
Over the years I've tried coming to Christ multiple times only to be pushed away by hateful Christians. The comments are making me feel this way once again, but this time I'm not going to walk away. I will have my own relationship with God and will not allow the hate to drive me away once again. I feel that I need to stay close to God but distance myself from a majority of his followers.
Exactly, its not about the other followers of Christ, its about you and Him. Thats how it is in the beginning for everyone, God bless you 😊
I’m sorry Christ representatives are not an actual representation of who He is and the principles He Wants His followers to live by.
I'm curious, what was hateful about your previous experience? Was it the way they confronted sin?
There seems to be a lot of judgement here good old Christian love there's no hate like conservative Christian love
@JeremyH-qq8wf nah, hate is throwing homosexuals off of buildings as is currently being done in areas of the middle east.
Christian love is telling a fellow believer when they are in danger. We are told explicitly to judge our brothers and sisters in Christ, and to not participate in what the Bible calls sin. Somehow, not affirming sin is hateful?
me every five seconds: "what??"
I literally said "🤨 what?!?"... and came liked this post....
You and me both
HONESTLY
This was so hard to watch.. As a born again Christian of 5 months, I came out of 16 years of gay living. I don't need a pastor to tell me it's okay when it's not. SMH. God Bless You Both. Thank you Owen
Pistis, the word Paul uses when the translations render it "faith", means in Greek also faithfulness. But in the political context, it means allegiance. And Christ=christos=annointed one means the Messianic King and lord=kyrios was the shorthand term for the Roman emperor. What do I want to say? The phrase "faith in Christ" means not a set of convictions, but "allegiance", and allegiance without obedience is not possible. Therefore I want to encourage you in your fighting the good fight and I highly recommend you Matthew Bates "Salvation by Allegiance alone. Reconsidering Faith, Works and the Gospel of Jesus the King" or "Gospel Allegiance. What faith in Jesus misses for salvation in Christ." Excellent books. And if you are interested in the dephts of the Gospel how it was meant by Paul, dive deeper into the "new Perspective on Paul", starting on wikipedia. Saving faith is obedient in struggling-faith.
@@martinospitaletta8198 what in Earth did you just said?
Theologian garbage is wrecking the world today.
@@martinospitaletta8198 beautifully put!! Wow!!
Hang in there. It’s a long but rewarding journey. Remember Satan is trying to lead you a stray.
AHH so my marriage with the person i love with everything within me is "not okay"
This was so hard to watch. God bless you Owen
It was hard to watch because Owen is steeped in confirmation bias. He refuses to question even his most basic assertions about God and the Bible, and this makes him extremely close-minded and overconfident in his translation of the Bible. And as we've seen with this kind of blind faith thinking in the past 2000 years, it is a recipe for disaster.
then don't watch ya cultist?
Owen spoke at my church last year and I just love how he delivers the truth. To the point yet so boldly.
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
2 Timothy 4:3 NIV
Guy with the beard fulfills this verse.
isiah 30 8-19 was written as a prophesy of Judah, if your interested go read it and you will also see the same idea as 2 Tim 4:3. the intricacies of Gods word is so vast
You are right and that’s the sad truth
@@geargem2047 Which bits are sound, again, and what was meant to happen to Jews, post Matthew 27:25.
Also, how does death deter Eve if she does not understand death; or obedience, with no idea of good, and evil.
And has not this errancy, or similar ones, dated back much further, than a few latter days?
How have you determined that your doctrine is sound? Is it because it is the most popular? If so, consider doctrine of the past that was ubiquitous and then changed by people like Martin Luther. Christians have stopped burning witches, leading crusades, and justifying racism. Why should this be the hill you die on?
Totally!!!!
Most impressive part is Owen’s ability to listen to all that malarkey without flipping a table over 🤣
Indeed
Restraint level 100%
That's exactly right
The fact that his facial expression stays the same the whole time is amazing. My jaw would have been on the floor with most of his responses and my eyes rolling 80% of the time. This guy CLEARLY does not know Jesus, doesnt read the bible nor teach out of it.
They did not provide him a table to flip for a reason.
If more people could have civilized conversations like this without wanting to kill each other, the world would be a better place.
This could have been 6 hours long. Each of their foundations was so radically different than the other’s that they never had time to develop a common footing (if there was one).
On a side note, How can someone call themselves a Christian and not believe in a Personal, Self-existent God? Call yourself what you are: a spiritually minded agnostic.
It's new age pseudo-spiritualism masquerading as Christianity to get bodies in the door.
He does claim to believe in a person self existent God. Funny.. he just recently did a video with Sean Mcdowell.. and he admits his personal relationship with God is something he has lost since going down the progressive path.
You have to give respect to Pastor Owen for his gentleness and meekness even when he knows this guy is clearly contradicting himself. Let’s pray that God use this dialogue to open his eyes to the truth 🙏🏾
100% !
Amen
Legit, I was so impressed with how he kept his cool and train of thought on track the entire conversation. It kept me in suspense like, "Ooooh how he gonna handle that one? :O "
Amen
Agreed, Colby contradicted himself on almost every point but then hypocritically would just appeal to himself as the authority.
This was like a doctor in theology explaining God to an atheist.
Literally the case.
And that "atheist" claims to be a Christian Pastor.
Key word is “claims” to be. A lot of people claim to be things but authentic Christianity isn’t something that is up to how you feel. Authentic Christianity has already been decided and declared by Christ’s life, word, and resurrection! Let the church say Amen.
@@ryansherrett3223 Not a atheist
@Link I didn't even know Biden believed in God ngl
Can't believe the guy on the right has been a pastor for 15 years...
“Pastor”. Those poor people.
He is just not for the Gd of Abraham. The one true Gd.
Great conversation. Very respectful of each other.
“I don’t believe there is a divine document out there that lays out a beings preferred order of things.”
The...Bible...?
The bible is flawed, filled with contradictions and does not have a PERFECT translation. Now what?
@@dathip the Word of God is infallible. It is inspired by a perfect Creator who does not make mistakes. For any Christian to say otherwise is heresy.
@@Cal1177 That does not answer ANY of my questions. The bible has numerous translations that CONTRADICT each other, christians say that their are translations that are more RELIABLE than others yet it contradicts its claim to be perfect, and does not have original authentic COMPLETE manuscripts that go back the earliest of the century.
@@dathip I think that you are assuming that all translations are equally reliable and accurate. This is not the case. For example, the Message translation does a great job of evoking emotion but is further from the original Greek than the NIV.
@@jaredclark173 No. My position is that they are not PERFECT as GOD claims his word would be preserved.
Reading these comments makes me so proud 🥲
I was just thinking the exact same thing. It's refreshing that so many are so strongly opposed to the progressive "Christian" and recognizing it a no Christianity at all
Your so proud that your religion teaches and encourages homophobia! wow
Yes!
@@jamiecarson2896 The Bible and the religion itself doesn’t encourage homophobia. It’s the “Christians” that think being homophobic is God’s will that encourage and teach it. I promise you these same people in the comments that are talking do way nastier things than you think.
@@jamiecarson2896 Christianity does not encourage hate of any kind. As Christians we are taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. In other words, hate the act of homosexuality but still love everyone, including homosexuals.
Beard guy has figured out a god that works well for him.
The bearded hipster guy worships a false god of his own making - in other words he worships an idol.
If God creates gay people, then surely he himself doesn't mind LGBT people....Boom!
@@M_W_L_F God creates people who are attracted to children...
I think he has not figured out God at all and is humble enough to say so.
"Figuring out a god that works well for them" is precisely what humans have been doing for at least six thousand years.
What the progressive "Christian" believes has absolutely nothing in common with God's word: He's rejected truth and replaced it with his own vain imaginations, and by doing so its clear that he believes himself to be god.
An example of apostasy, whatever he is, he isn't a Christian.
This is gnosticism at it's finest.
do you speak on God's behalf?
"I don't have this amazing testimony" Seems pretty great to me to be faithful and knowing the Scripture with such wisdom.
Amen! Subscribe!
Should be titled “Guy who knows what he’s talking about vs Guy who makes things up as he goes” or “Guy who forms himself around God vs Guy who forms God around himself”
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Exactly! And that's the issue nowadays with the so called "progressive ""Christians"". They're not Christians if they adapt parts of the word of God to their own thinking. Sad but not surprising, God foretold these things would happen. Even so it saddens me a lot.
😂 Right
@@mitchellc4 Then fill in the f***ing gaps, including in the fate of Achan's kids, and when any angel could alter or impair other angels spiritually, before birth, using their free will - as Eve did to humans. To not yet, born, humans.
😂😂😂
“Worrying about having the right answers, not the right questions.”
We know because we have the Holy Spirit living in us to convict us of what Gods word says in relation to ourselves and this world.
More like Christian vs Agnostic. Bearded guy kept saying "if there is some transcent being" and "some guy in the sky".
Also he kept talking about Christians have gotten it wrong in the past so there's no way we can be sure we're right now. And we can't really tell what's good and bad. But then he goes on to say we are to judge people by their good fruit. If there is no objective standard, how would we know what's good fruit?
FYI- some LGBTQ+ advocacy efforts are directed towards changing the culture and beliefs on homosexuality of the christian church from within. If you follow lgbtq politics and their some of their organizations, you’ll understand these are Organized and deliberate efforts
YES!! I said the same thing... can’t know what good fruit is, if you don’t have a gauge for good and bad... 🤦🏻♀️
That’s what I was thinking exactly.
@Ptolemy 1 Nothing is forced on you. You have free will to obey the Word of God or to disregard it. Each choice has it's own ending. God helped me in my sexuality and His Word is very convicting, but His love is extremely uplifting and powerful. God is merciful. That is why He sent down His Son Jesus to die for our sins (and He was buried and rose again on the 3rd day) so that we can be born again and enter into the Kingdom of God. The depression and suicide rates are very high within the LGBTQ community and it saddens me. Sadly, asking people to validate false claims on our perspective or emotions won't fix anything because even then, many have taken their own lives after said validation. Only truth in love can help heal someone. Living in a lie is damaging and that has killed more people than it has ever saved.
Seek the Word of God and reach out to God in genuine prayer. He will answer you. And read Romans 1 as it may help you understand a bit more. I recommend KJV.
When it comes to salvation, please give these verses a read! Romans 10:9-10; 1 John 1:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Acts 2:38. 🙏🏼🌻💛
Exactly my thoughts.
If your pastor starts a sentence with “For me...” you better go to someone else.
Amen. I totally agree.
What is your Biblical basis for this statement?
@Patrick Obert Nkala Morality is decided by God but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for talking about your experiences, your thoughts or what has worked for you.
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ua-cam.com/video/wo8BRa8od7o/v-deo.html
Im soo glad im Catholic....you can reference ANYTHING, that's backed up upon back up! GEEZ these guys are just dancing around on what "they think"...terrible terrible theology. Just my opinion. Then the guy on the right says >>>
" "how can we really trust the bible, at the end of the day?" really?
Thank you for watching Honest Discourse. We are so thankful to bring people with differing perspectives together for meaningful conversations. As the discussions continue in the comments, we encourage you to engage kindly. The spirit of this format is “discuss, don’t demonize.”
Owen, you speak so eloquently! God bless you!
and he's full of BS
“christians need to be careful of misusing the Bible”
guy on the right: “haha trueeee”
guy on the right 15 minutes prior: “i don’t think there’s a holy writing that tells us how we’re supposed to live” (not his exact words but you get my message :)
Lol it's sad.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
How did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
"The bible isn't sufficient" this man should not be sheparding a church
John 10:1 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
We can question however we want. We’re humans we think. We wonder
Have you ever studied the history of the Bible? Written by dozens of different authors the council of nicea assembled it's structure heavily edited by the ethiopian, orthodox and catholic churches. Original manuscripts are missing and so much has been lost or changed during the translation process.
@@ericreingardt2504 there’s absolutely no proof the Bible has been changed like you say, that’s simply an opinion. The King James Version is almost word for word from the Greek and mind you much of the New Testament was written in Greek originally. God is all powerful and all knowing, he’s kept his Word pure for us to digest. Many of the versions after the King James are tampered with, do to the fact they had to be edited a certain percentage before they could obtain a copyright and make money off them.
@@malachipratton5145 buddy, the proof is on my side in this debate. You're the one with the opinion. Look up saint jerome who picked and chose the arrangement of the bible. Look up the council of nicea. Look up the many errors and edits greek monks and scribes made. Look up the many edits the eastern orthodox church made and look up the edits the roman catholic church made. All of this happened before the Bible was even translated into old English (wycliffe) and then modern english and even then scribes and monks took some liberties and translation. You need to look at the Bible critically or you'll always be confused and frustrated.
He’s basically saying the Bible isn’t the truth.. blasphemy
Its only christian's truth. its not "the" truth. Its a book written by many people over decades with some nice ideas and some atrociously violent ideas. Just because you believe it doesn't mean it is true..
@@ryanreiff9641 I hate when people who’ve never read the Bible through or done any in depth reading and understanding speak on the Bible. Evaluating the Bible in the context of the civilization it was given. The Bible has been the forerunner of the evolution of morality. The Gd of Abraham civilized the world. Whether you want to agree or not says more about you then the word.
@@andrewbradley3305 None of this matters. We will all die and then there will be nothing. Just like before we were born. And all of these stupid bullshit rules your bible says about man sleeping with man and not eating shellfish and whatever other ridiculous things are in there don't matter either. The only thing it does is make people you deem as sinners suffer from the ridicule and judgement of religious people.
@@andrewbradley3305 also... you just believe those things.. god of abraham etc.. bc its in a book. Doesn't mean its the truth or it ever even happened. I could say.. you never read Richard Dawkins "the God Delusion" so you can't have an opinion about atheism... they're just books.
I’m glad the solid one has a strong background in systematic theology. His arguments are clearly laid out and supported.
and you know what God thinks, right!?
@@camerong5513 Well, considering that He provided His inspired Word to share the Law, the Gospel, and ultimately His Nature; we can certainly gain a better grasp (as much as is possible).
@@CyrusStratton and I'd bank money your grasp is none too firm, fella
@@camerong5513 I do not. I only know what He told us about Himself
@@andrewbradley3305 you have some opinions
BTW - I didn't ask you anything
this man in the lighter shirt definitely has the holy spirit !
Yup! No way he could have been so respectful with someone with such disregard for scripture without it
Honestly.... Like he Wasn't judgmental at all... Even though he knew the bearded guy really needs enlightenment..
At Anonymous, saying that someone doesn't know what the Scriptures say is not judgemental at all; in fact, it is quite true. Besides that, in 1 CORINTHIANS 6, Paul (through revelation by Holy Spirit says that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ, will judge angels so then how much more a mere human being? Now, I qualify this by expanding that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ] are to make "right" judgements (meaning, judgement based in righteousness ,wisdom, and grace).
@Anonymous I agree. However, that's not what actually happened. After watching Part 1 and Part 2, it is apparent that "Progressive" guy doesn't have his facts straight; and therefore, is not in a position to speak incorrectly about Scripture. Therefore, a "gentle rebuke" was necessary. "'Progressive's"' mind was made up long before he entered Into that conversation
@@artistmajor you couldn't have said it any better really... Hats off..
I’m watching this as a struggling Christian trying to figure out how exactly God wants us to live and interpret things. I have lately had a tendency to value some of the more progressive ideas, thinking there should be a more “inclusive” way to lead people to Christ. However, after watching this, I see that this way of thinking is actually pretty dangerous and not at all biblical....
You nailed it. The proper way to lead people to Jesus is through relationships. We never see Jesus walking up to someone telling them they need to accept Him or go to hell. We see Him developing relationships with people and loving on them. We need to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I’m glad you see that progressive Christianity is not Christianity at all. The Bible has everything we need. It’s the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth! It is not a book of rules! It’s a book of salvation! And It’s an instruction manual to guide us to a better life!
I'm Really glad Lacy, God bless.
My thing is if you’re too comfortable as a converting Christian in a church that doesn’t convict you fully then that church is most likely off the word because a true convert would not want to feel comfortable in their sin
@@onyinyesarah1226 Yes, exactly.
@@onyinyesarah1226 truth
This was interesting & is a conversation that needs to continue. Praying for Colby and the congregation he leads.
If he’s teaching that we are known by our fruits and loving God and loving people sound like his congregation is quite alright! 👍🏽
this “progressive christian” is NOT a Christian 😂
Romans 2:1
Progressive “Christian”
I'm a Baptist and I've never been afraid of asking questions. I'm sad that he felt he couldn't ask questions. I was fortunate to be able to grow in my faith by asking questions.
I’m a Baptist too, and same here. There are a lot of crazy stereotypes about Baptists but I think that’s because fundamentalist evangelicals tend to take the Bible very seriously.
Growing up my family, pastor, and teachers (I went to private Christian School) never allowed questions. Eventually, I was old enough to research my questions myself and fully understand what I read.
I'm an atheist now. It worked really well for them I think 🙄
@@inaraoftyria3878 That’s a shame questions are looked down on. Whenever a child (or anyone, really) asks a spiritual question I am very happy! I think there are a lot of Christians working to change that flaw in our culture.
@@inaraoftyria3878 that's a sad story, there are questions that need answers, without them it's just blind faith, which more dangerous than unbelief. I pray that you find people who can answer your questions and build your faith on a strong foundation. God bless you.
I graduated from Pensacola Christian College and almost was expelled by writing a term paper question the views of the schools music policies.
I remember questioning the concept of Faith as being a leap into the unknown. I did not see that as a good way to go about believing in something.
It's like watching a solid unmoveable rock have a conversation with a balloon carried about by a directionless breeze...
Carried about by every wind of doctrine
Hahahaha 🤣
Precisely
I laughed😂
Very good comment 😅
@21:05...that deafening pause.
"Uhh, you HAVE heard of the Bible, correct? 😂
These two guys are arguing in my head every damn day
🤣🙏🏼
It’s like I’m getting smarter and dumber at the same time. 🤣🤣🤣
Funny! Same!!
Totally
You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head
Facts
😂😂
One guy opens with his testimony remembering how he was convicted of his sin and the other guy doesn't. I'm always leery of Christians who don't mention their sinfulness in their testimony. If there's no sin, then Christ died needlessly
It was in heaven first, was it not, technically?
Amen
@@tomasmccauley569
Tomas, nobody says everything about us is sin, sin, sin. It is a matter of your choice. God has no hand here. If you choose; yes choose to walk away from sin and embrace holy living, then go ahead.
We are told that the Bible contains God's word and commandments; not our word. Sodomy is clearly described in the Bible as an abomination.
If we are the clay and He, the Potter, we have to obey Him.
Sadly today, we place emphasis on pleasing the clay instead of the Potter. That is Humanism.
So if obeying the texts of the Bible makes one sad, the solution is to bring the flesh under subjection by refusing to please it.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. [25] And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. [26] I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: [27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
@@tomasmccauley569 it just makes you conscience beyond a meaningless stumble on a floating rock through space.
That is so right guys !!
I thought this would be a discussion between Christians who disagree with one another but ended up being a theology professor and a newage guru who have very little in common
He says he totally gets a certain topic and then the next minute completely rejects it.
17:45 Didn’t take long before this “progressive christian” denied he was even created by God’s design. It is straight heresy to deny a basic aspect of who God is: the eternal creator of all. Truly mind-boggling some people convince themselves this is still Christianity.
I hope this honest and sincere discussion leads the pastor to study Christian apologetics.
@@Eyemredeemed Hey Amy! Good news, I studied apologetics for years. Rest assured, I know it all pretty well (meaning, the traditional arguments for the conservative position on homosexuality). But I do agree with you, I hope that my new friend Owen will take this honest and sincere discussion and perhaps one day be spurred on to question his conclusions, too.
@@mrcolbymartin the biblical position*
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mrcolbymartin I’m sorry man but you need to be rebuked out of love.
No need to watch. Bearded man doesn't believe in bible. Other dude does
Hey Everything Everson! If the goal of the video was to debate the Bible, then I'd agree with you. Skip! However, the goal was simply to model charitable, good-faith conversation between people who believer very differently. If that interests you, then watch! If not, all good!
Hey! I have a beard and I’m with our Theologian here. Lol. Beards are not sinful. Haha
@@mrcolbymartin but this is a biblical issue, and one side clearly doesn't believe in the Bible.
@@mrcolbymartin Hey Colby, thanks for engaging here. I sort of agree with the other guy. I was disappointed because I was genuinely looking to find someone who seem to believe the Scriptures for what they are and still believe that homosexuality was not a sin. I guess if you have two pastors up for a debate, if as Christians we get our beliefs from the word of God, we were not expecting a liberal theologian here. We were expecting someone who held fast to the Scriptures and maybe interpreted them a different way.
Also, yes, Christians have misinterpreted scripture along history… I have done the same. Ha ha. But, I’m interested in how those specific scriptures that speak against homosexuality can be misunderstood. People use scripture and twisted it to promote slavery… Their application was off… Because they did not understand the culture or the context. I think that is very different to the homosexuality verses. Can you please enlighten me and let me know how you perceive the verses on homosexuality?
We can't know God comprehensively, as he is an infinite, timeless being beyond our senses.
However, we can know what God has revealed about himself in scripture and in his creation.
The PC understands the first statement and tends to forget the second.
The CC understands the second statement and tends to forget the first.
Aaaaye! Watching from coastal Maine right now!
And to answer the question from the progressive individual regarding "how do you know you are reading the Bible right", I say when you start studying the Bible rather than reading it like a Sunday newspaper. STUDYING the word. When you study the word - hermeneutically - you will find more and more that you are not the focus of the Bible. 66 books of possibilities to be abused and misused for the sake of me! So, when I remove "me" from the focus of study, I start to see and connect scripture in ways I never could. Scripture defends scripture. If you are properly studying the word, you dont find "conflict" of scripture but confirmation of it. The danger rests in refuting something we are not properly studying. We could always question what something means, but do you believe that the authority/source in which the words are coming from is actually legit? That is where things become relative. God's word is not relative.
Pray for the guy with the beard. His confused and lost. And leading others through his confusion
Amen
💯 percent
That’s what God call false prophet. He is confusing the people. That’s what the devil wants.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
And how exactly did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
Love how he keeps referring to God as “this being” or “this thing” as if God hasn’t already identified himself.
To be honest, they BOTH referred to “ a being” several times. And they BOTH were talking about how they interpret the Gospel. I thought they were gonna talk scriptures
If you believe God is a bearded man in the sky you are beyond stupid
The part Colby is missing is that you can only know the scriptures if you have the Holy Spirit living in you and I don’t think he does.
@@vondazollinger33 How convinient
@Marly B So Jesus didnt have a beard? How do you know?
36:14. My jaw dropped when a pastor asked, how are we supposed to know what God will is... SMH
I know, it was truly shocking!
The bearded individual, for a pastor he sure does not use the bible for reference nor does he seem to understand or respect Genesis
To the progressive “pastor”, sorry, but it’s not about the “for me” or “I feel”. This is about how God has created And how he designed them to operate. You can’t take Christianity and shape it to fit your agenda.
Yea you can but it’s NOT CHRISTIANITY!!
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ua-cam.com/video/wo8BRa8od7o/v-deo.html
@@mrcolbymartin I’m not religious because of people not like you. Your spot on. Most Evangelicals love Trump but hate homosexuals That’s just insane I do like you take.
'Designed them to operate'
@@jconner3891
"love Trump but hate homosexuals".
Because God "says" to hate homosexuals, but speaking the truth is something that The Bible prides itself on.
God: My Word is enough.
This guy: The Bible is not sufficient.
I thought this was supposed to be between two Christians...
Just out of curiosity, I disagree with the progressive Christian, but where is Sola scriptura commanded by God?
How did you determine your interpretation of the Bible is correct?
@Brian Farley Thanks, I appreciate the history lesson but I'm constantly turned off by the absoluteness of any person or organization claiming, quite dogmatically, the monopoly on truth and moral reasoning. Is the progressive pastor a Catholic? Did you know that the vast majority of Catholics and even the Pope himself say they are fine with same-sex relationships and that we all have much more pressing things to worry about?
@Brian Farley "We know the Church has gotten many things wrong before, so we at least have to be open tot he possibility that they can be wrong again." That's a direct quote from the video. What are your thoughts on the errors and mistakes in church history?
@Brian Farley Gonna try to unpack all of your assumptions there. Please bear with me.
"you either believe in objective truth or relativism" > False Dichotomy Fallacy, aka Black-and-White Thinking. There are many other beliefs about morality besides these two options. For example, I believe that chess is a completely arbitrary (relative) game, but that within the game itself exists a realm of perfect objectivity. That is, there are moves that will objectively lead you to the goal of winning the game. Secular humanism operates under a similar framework: a realm of empiricism and objectivity within the albeit subjective idea that human well-being is worth valuing.
In this sense, I do not subscribe to relativism, nor do I see how the existence of mathematical or scientific measurements demonstrate anything about a god or our relationship with one.
“I don’t think there is a divine document that lays out a beings preferred order of things”.... it’s called the Bible champ
The Bible does not provide the order for all knowledge. For instance number theory and geometry are not understood by reading the scriptures. Yet all truth is property of us Christians because we worship the truth - the logos of God. This is why we have created colleges and universities.
@@stephencrotts2417 the Bible isn't meant to but the Laws of Moses and the new covenant tells us how to behave amongst eachother
@@marlo8456 You too could use reading Charles Finney
Not all moral action is determined by the scriptures. Most churches today for instance do not expect members to sell all they have and give it to the church as the early church did. Paul says sciptures are profitable. He never held them as the rules people must follow. If understood through the lenses of love the Bible become a guide to the Church.
@@stephencrotts2417 you to could do with reading orthodox church history.
If by "churches" you mean some random organisation created on the basis of how some individual feels then I'd understand your statement. But the apostolic church defines these things and it is that which we should follow
@@marlo8456 Who would you like me to read in Church history. I actually don't know of anyone that I have not read. So I'm curious who are you referring to that I should read. I have taken three classes in Church history . One was by the Southern Baptist Seminary, the other by the Pensacola Christian College. But I'm 60 now and for many years I have been reading original writings of Church leaders. You should read Eusebius of Caesarea to start with.
I watched a video of a conversation with Colby and McDowell, he states that he changes his mind about literal resurrection every Easter. And drawing from Paul, if there is no resurrection then we are to be pitied the most. Colby is not a Christian, he is a christianist, some one who steals what they like from Jesus at face level and rejects everything else.
The progressive guy has more questions and ideas than answers and truths.
💯!!
Hopefully all those ideas and questions lead him and his wife to the real answers and Truth.
"Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things."
Proverbs 28:5
Yeah, I guess there really is not any place in the Bible that says homosexuality isn't a sin so it can't be DISproven.
@@n.c.1201 1 corinthians 6:9
"'Christian' who doesn't believe Christian things" vs. Actual Christian
Basically lol
But why?
@@pop3stealth97 you tell me
Guy on the left...you smashed it.
if you don't believe that god establishes a right and wrong then how can you be christian? i genuinely don't understand
The bible is lie
@Jadon Frick if u neeed the bible to tell u how to be a good person then that you that’s not everyone, Christ conscious ppl know Christ n his heart not the biggots who edited the bible, I find it hard to believe Jesus hated gays that’s coming from a straight person. Death is certain for everyone so when u die hope it is really what u think I hope ur following ur scriptures word for word have a great day
@Jadon Frick okay have a nice day I’m not about to go back n forth
I don’t believe in organised religions I believe in a creator n I believe in Jesus
@Jadon Frick I’m not gonna argue with a fool
Man, I was really hoping this Spurgeon-bearded man was the solid Christian. I guess good theology doesn’t always come from having a majestic beard 🧔🏻
haha good one:) and he has my last name :(
I knew he was the progressive "pastor" just by looking at him.
@@fernandosimon5621 Lol
Lol! Sorry to disappoint.
-The Spurgeon Bearded Man
@@mrcolbymartin still an epic beard and good dialogue, thanks for partaking in this.
I just watched 47 minutes of a Christian trying his best to discredit the bible. Wow
Ya, someone who wants to love his or her fellow man, but has to dance around all the ugly ignorant hatred that is in the bible, and still pretend to believe in its primitive origin.
Wolves among sheep.
@@donefinished All shepherds lead their flocks to slaughter.
@@dr.graves5541 I didn’t see any evidence of hatred here.
@@jestanuthername I said "in the bible". Where is anything that could be mistaken for love and compassion be found where a primitive book tells its readers to murder another human being for how they were born? No real supernatural entity would be that ignorant and hateful.
so refreshing to hear a polite discussion on such a polarizing topic.
It might be interesting if Mr. Martin dressed like a Mormon missionary (white shirt, black tie) and was clean-cut looking. I bet he'd sound different to us.
Re-listened and enjoyed again. I wish these two would have/post an old fashioned style debate. I.e. there is a statement (a "resolution") that one affirms and the other denies. They take turns giving presentations that affirm and deny the resolution. They have the opportunity to ask questions of each other. This kind of thing was very popular up to the mid-20th century. I wish we'd bring it back .....to some extent, anyway.
This discussion ....as much as i found it helpful....the arguments tend to drift and it's hard to keep what they're talking about in focus. (Of course that might just be my limitations showing themselves!😎)
I think the discussion would need to be a biblical based discussion. The reality that it's a clear topic where God has us think and even analyze why homosexuality even the LGBT is sinful. Because, there is some very clear twisted perspective even dishonoring perspective to whom GOD is. Specifically from the progressive perspective view.
The debate is basically one person apply the Bible to his worldview the other is applying his worldview to the Bible
@@sergalvisc Well, can we analyze, and how far? Is it more or less of a danger, than hiding loot from Jericho, carving some small idols, as Jeroboam did, or refusing a cryptic request in 1 Kings 20:36, was? Or the whole census dispute in 2 Samuel 24?
I find, things are often not as fully clear, as people imply.
After all, once, Leviticus 25:46, was not entirely sinful. Or Exodus 21:3-20.
So weird to insist on calling yourself a Christian and be a ‘pastor’ but clearly not be Christian 🥴
That is exactly what I just said. How can he truly call himself a Christian when he simply doesn’t believe in God being the creator?!
Yeah! It really struck me how nearly everything he described as a personal belief he holds could be ascribed to new age belief, yet he calls himself a Christian. 🤯 It really is mind blowing, the amount of redefining of terms in this post modern age. It's as if we're living in an upside down world. Jesus, come!
just one contradiction after another.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
You are not the Gate Keeper
I really appreciate that in this day and age two people can sit down and have a conversation on a topic they disagree on in a way that still is respectful and calm. Thank you, Anchored North!
Wasn't that so refreshing? I agree. Not easy, but important. Thanks tiffany.
I agree in a way Tiffany, but it's sad to me that no member of the actual LGBTQI+ community was invited to the discussion. It's like having a discussion about women's rights and roles in the church without having a woman present to give personal input.
@@mrcolbymartin Jesus died to take the place of those who believe in Him and turn from the world to follow Him. He took the cross to take the repercussion for what God warned Adam would happen if he ate what was forbidden. For disbelieving God.
Jesus died so we wouldn't have to. He physically rose from death to give us hope that we too would physically rise from death. Bodily.
Your paradigm of how you view the world through believing the theory of universal common descent has clouded your ability to understand why Jesus died. If you don't believe that God made Adam and Eve in the beginning, and we are fallen because we inherit death from our ancestor Adam... you will never understand being born again and inheriting life through Jesus. May God open your eyes like the man in John chapter 9 who you reference in your writings. Jesus is more beautiful than you know.
@@timq78 why would that have any impact on the discussion and subject, every day we all speak and have opinions outside of our field or lane, does that make us all invalid or disqualified?
@@patrickambler749 awesome Patrick, how true, this movement is deceitful, they are not “progressive Christians” by definition in fact they are the opposite, they are “ universal idolatrous pagans”
Homosexuality is not a sin!
Thank you Pastor Owen for speaking love and truth, my God bless you, your family and your church xox
"love" and "truth". Good one, EmDawg
Dude with the beard has created his own religion 🤯
I agree with you
He’s most definitely confused
His own personal Jesus..
It's called idolatry. I pray the Lord opens his eyes.
Right?? That was my impression.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight.
Amen sister!
Don't forget the part of the verse that says, and Lean not on your own understanding, BUT in all your ways acknowledge him.
The man in the black shirt was relying heavily on his own understanding
Believe what your are told, question nothing, and live a life dictated by some 2000 year old book. Don't you realise you've all been indoctrinated??? You can break free from nonsensical religious and still be spiritual. The bible was not written by god, we cannot understand what god is. For you to think the bible is word of god is absolute is crazy, THINK people THINK
It’s unfortunate that this did not end up being a fruitful conversation. Colby did not interact with the professors premises in a meaningful way and kept pushing the goalposts to basically allude to the “mystery” of objective moral values. Even when the Professor answered Colby’s challenge about slavery, he continued to commit genetic fallacies.
❤️ Paster Owen. Awesome explainations! 😊.
o.k.
Progressive guy just invented a god to fit his view point.
Notice how he's mumbling and bumbling and the other guy is clear and exact in his answers.. I'm sorry but Progressive Christian people I've just don't feel are correct doctrinal.. they're trying to fit God into their own thinking.. I watched girl God is grey and Ruslan have a conversation and she's not even clear about what she believes she said she doesn't go on her feelings but when she was speaking of homosexuality she said "well I think" ....not well the Bible says
@@monicanewell1567 amen, I completely agree. Progressive Christianity is false.
@@monicanewell1567 It all depends how you view the Bible. One way is to see it as the “Word of God” and “inspired by God” which suggests that the Bible is a divine product as no other book is.
Another way of seeing the Bible is as the human product of two ancient communities. The OT is the product of ancient Israel, and the NT is the product of the early Christian movement. As the product of these two communities, the Bible tells us about how they saw things- how they thought about God and told their stories.
This is the result of modern biblical scholarship over the last three centuries. Though it was known mostly in scholarly circles until recently, this approach is now being embraced by many mainline Christians. The Bible is the “Word of God” in this sense: in its function, not in its origin.
He is literally misleading a whole church.
The progressive was wright about the interpretation argument. The non progressive never really answered the question just talked around it. He clams that you always as to take the Bible litteraly yet a huge part of the Bible are parables something that is not literal. So how can something be completely objective when a huge chunk of it is open to interpretation. Also it blows my mind how many people are saying that this man is not a Christian. It’s not your place to decide wether he is or not. That between him and god not you. And it’s nobody’s place to say who is and isn’t a Christan. That’s god’s job
This dude isn’t a Christian. He rejects foundational biblical beliefs
He doesn't even want to verify or say that God's word is truth that's troubling he's leading so many people astray
The bearded one is at best a “New Age Spiritualist” He would want to throw doubt on the Word in order to coddle hedonistic idolatry. Imagine leaning on your own understanding..without a leg to stand on. Smh
That’s why is scripture (especially the writings of the apostles) we see a clear picture of them saying the proper doctrine should be handed down. When you read the Bible for yourself without care if the doctrine that was taught by Jesus to the apostles you get false doctrine. The bearded guy would benefit greatly from a study of the history of the church and the doctrines of the apostolic fathers. He would see that his views are outside of the true Christian doctrine. You can’t read the Bible with your own mind. Doctrine is important
@@OfficiallyXgotcha34
Actually you can read the bible and get understanding of what it actually teaches for the most part without doctrine (for example you can get the doctrine of the trinity without knowing it if you read the bible), the problem is that people read in what they want to read into the scripture.
The actual Christian should go from debating to sharing the gospel... for real, that would be the best thing to do in this situation
Took a minute to figure out that I was watching Owen Strachan the man! His UA-cam series about Christianity and Wokeness is SO good, guys.
39:38 - 40:23 At the very end he says, "the Bible itself has to be its own standard". Before saying this, the man describes how Pual is never an advocate for chattel slavery (as we have known it in America). Rather he speaks of indentured servitude. as being acceptable. This shows how we have misconstrued the words of the Lord to make it serve ourselves and (in this case) our greed. The Bible cannot be wrong, but us. We cannot say the Bible invoked our wrongful actions. We can only say that our misconstrued and erroneous interpretation of the Bible is what invoked us to act in the wrong.
"If I'm going to continue to be a part of this Christian tradition, being in this work, I need to figure out if I can continue holding onto this belief with any integrity." - I've only just begun watching this, and I'll give him a fair hearing, but this line is really telling.
Basically: In order for me to be a Christian, I need scripture to align with my own moral preconceptions.
He already sounds like he set out the find a way to justify his own personal beliefs through scripture, rather than honestly approaching scripture to find it's true intention. "I need the Bible to say xyz so that I won't lose my faith" is probably not the best approach to discovering truth.
So hypothetically, if you believed that something in the Bible was morally wrong, but you still believed it was God's Word, would you still follow it and follow that God? For example if you were against slavery but you believed God was pro-slavery, like many Christians believed for many years? I mean, wouldn't that make you believe that God was evil, and if so could you follow an evil God? Or would you just assume that if God were in favour of slavery, for example, that would mean you were wrong to believe it was wrong?
Yes it is. It's the main way to finding truth. Your personal experience will show you so much more truth than a book. God gave you your own personal experience. Jesus didn't have the New Testament. No book will ever give you a realization of truth because it is a form of idolized knowledge. Firsthand experience is the only true knowledge.
So well said 4somereason. I really think we need to know what God says is true and conform to that, rather than try find your own opinion in the Bible.
I agree 100% these "woke" Christians are nothing more than wolves in the middle of the flock. The Bible talks about God threshing the wheat from the shaft and I think this is a perfect example for true Christians to see and wake up
@@joannajett2524 nothing of what you’re saying makes any sense. Christians who believed God advocated slavery never thought that God was evil to begin with. How about you read the Bible first before making such dumb conclusions
The Christian man cracks me up just sitting there grunting like “yes, I’m going to pretend like you’re making sense. Furthermore, here’s some truth from the Bible.”
Perfect way to put it but... It saddens me how lost the guy with the beard is
Hahahaha
You clearly don’t care about the bearded man then.
Riiiight. He said how can we know what God's expectations are?? I was like cuz he wrote em out to us! And this man the most gentle and descriptive response ever back...baisicly the bible
@@FLOWeR71619 Then how do you explain Jesus' exhortation to the 12 about the hidden knowledge that even they would never understand????
I don’t understand how the guy with beard can be a pastor if he clearly doesn’t believe in God, Bible.
I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for having it. A couple a thoughts that I hope furthers the conversation. I think they have different presuppositions, which leads them to different conclusions. Owen uses the design argument from the creation narrative in Genesis to ground his case for a heteronormative ethic. Also, Owen seems to stumble a bit when pressed by Colby on his epistemology.
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Owen is following the Word and the other guy is reading his own beliefs into the Word. Therefore he is making himself Gd by putting his thoughts over the ideas of Gd