The Bible Is NOT Homophobic | Progressive VS Conservative Christian (Part 2)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 гру 2020
- A progressive Christian and a conservative Christian continue their conversation on God, the Bible, and human sexuality. Can they overcome the stigma and speak to one another with understanding?
Conversationalists include:
@colbymartin: / colbymartin
@profstrachan: / profstrachan
SUBSCRIBE for more! 👉 www.youtube.com/@honestdiscou...
#christianity #progressivechristianity #gospel
ABOUT
Cultivating conversations about Jesus. We create resources that are beautiful, theologically sound, & intentionally crafted to reach non-Christians.
PARTNER
Help equip believers with compelling resources they can share to spark meaningful conversations about Jesus: www.anchorednorth.org/donate
Subscribe to our new Honest Discourse UA-cam channel: www.youtube.com/@honestdiscourse?sub_confirmation=1
I know its easy to get frustrated with the progressive, but if you yourself are a christian, lets lift this guy up in prayer, thats energy better spent
And pray for Owen. Owen clearly is a literalist.
@@s0niku4ia which is really surprising for a theologian
@@s0niku4ia well are there not parts of the bible that are to be taken literally?
Jesus called people hypocrites, He flipped tables, He called people vipers. He came “not to bring peace, but a sword” Matthew 10:34. You have to be willing to tell people the truth even though it hurts. Yes, pray for him, but he has to be told he’s wrong
@@sailorarwen6101 well...you can have a dialogue with him, and talk about the differences of your beliefs (much like this video does), but idk if you can tell someone else they’re wrong like they’re a kid out of line. He’s not about to mix chemicals to make an explosion, he has a difference of belief. Your believing he’s self-destructive doesn’t make it so
When you stand on nothing, you fall for anything.
Touché
Facts
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Like Hamilton said in the musical to Burr, "If you stand for nothing, Burr, what do you fall for?" (Song: Aaron Burr, Sir.)
When you go with the idealists you are left with nothing because your given the world on a platter.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:22
Amazin!!
@Angelina I couldn’t agree more sister! This so called “pastor” is more lost then George Soros in church
Well said!
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
@@antoooa8664 hey what exactly are these verses telling us sorry I don’t really have any bible study apps
He keeps saying “if there was a divine set of documents that exists” YOU MEAN THE..... BIBLE
Amen!
Seriously!
I think he means something direct.
my first thought
@@deborahdobbie is the Bible not direct?
I loved listening to Owen speak. Truly filled with the Holy Spirit, he doesn’t compromise on the truth, his answers are clear and well organized AND he’s very respectful 👏🏼👏🏼 great example of a Christian
Is owen the one in the black shirt because I would agree
The blue guy is chill too uwu
“And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 KJV
The word and truth of God is power in itself😌 theres no need to convince or persuade because these words of scripture are alive and powerful enough to convict. Its when people try to maneuver around the truth to get their way rather than Gods way that makes things dangerous. Nice words and feelings dont equate with what is in line with God. I really appreciate his responses as well 🙂
Talking like a religious drone spouting dogma = the Holy Spirit?
@@Magnulus76 He spoke the truth but with gentleness and respect. Doctrine is important but he presented it well, not getting angry or self righteous or anything. If you don't like what Owen said then it's because you don't want to hear the truth, even when it's presented respectfully
You need to retitle this "Atheist VS Conservative Christian". 💯
Guy on the right is clearly not a Christian. I'm not so much judging his heart but rather the words that he has said.
1000000%
He said that Jesus is not the only way. He is not a Christian.In the previous video, check the comment section.
@@Apologia5 What?
@@danielreed3718 What?
“Be quick to listen and slow to speak”
Owen does a great job at this. He doesn’t respond when the other guy says so many false things. He started on point, it’s incredible.
The fact that he said "the God character" shows that he is not a believer.
@Elijah I was thinking the same thing. He speaks like he's an atheist or something. Very strange. He hasn't met Christ yet but pray the Lord reveals to him the truth, beauty in who he is (Jesus Christ) and the cohesiveness in his word. God bless.
So that means he’s smarter than the other guy.
Yeah the way he speaks makes me wonder if he’s truly a theist or a “christian” he so claims to be
Yeah that bothered me too
I was going to mention him saying "the God character" as well. Wow. This guy.
He doesn’t believe in the Bible. “The Genesis poem”, “....or whatever that verse says”, “I feel, “I feel”, “I feel”. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOU FEEL. It really doesn’t.
I feel the pain in your comment man 😂😂
So what does he believe?
@@momwalker2706 his feeling
@@2002THEBOY I feel sorry for him smh.
Thank you for saying this!!
This man avoids questions like a politician. Romans 1 speaks of it this way: “suppressing the truth of God in unrighteousness.”
Which man would that be the one on the right or left
The one on the right
@@socc3r43va I didn’t seem to think he was holding back but maybe I could be wrong. But yea saw some other videos of Christians who are ok and say the Bible wasn’t written by God but by man. Like man yea wrote the Bible but it’s Gods words that were spoken to us by the Holy Spirit. Some people just want to water down the gospel as one Christian said in a progressive va conservative debate it was an Asian American Christian can’t remember his name. So yea that’s how you know Christians are trying to welcome all the bad that God hates and make it good and insult Gods words. These are the signs of the end of times.
Looolll
You can't tell it to someone who just proclaims that they are Christian yet not Christian like (progressive Christian)
Well props to Owen for his patience because the entire time Colby was just talking in circles and evading questions.
He's talking on a level you can't understand, frankly.
@@Magnulus76 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3
@@edengrey5598 You've got a clobber passage for anything
@@Magnulus76 I know what it feels like to see a passage in scripture and struggle with it. I recently spent two years of my life away from the Lord and not wanting to have anything to do with God because I felt like he had abandoned me. I think it’s good that you question things. I believe the growth happens the most during the moments we wrestle with God. I won’t pretend to have all the answers, I don’t. But I encourage you to keep seeking God and he will reveal himself and his truth to you. Love and peace to you, friend.
I’m thankful for men like Owen (who’s a professor at the seminary I attend) and his dedication to scripture.
Owen, the narc, can't even represent neither the OT nor NT accurately, far less with anything more than a superficial intelligence
That man is by no means a Christian. He is an agnostic “playing” at being a pastor.
agreed.
@Merbear I looked up the progressives church statement of faith and it had ZERO scripture.....very telling. And so sad.
Think of the ramifications of that, the well meaning yet spiritually immature person seeking after God and stumbling into a “church” led by a so-called pastor like this leading them astray. He goes from being responsible for his own lost soul and those of his family members, but also those that think they’re “worshiping God” when they attend his church and listen to his sermons void of truth.
I think this statement does a disservice to what progressive Christianity seeks to do; not to mention, we don't get to gatekeep Christianity and decide someone's Christian status
@@charlotteboi12 Sir, scripture plainly tells us who is and isn’t a believer. This man is completely denying the authority of scripture and God in his statements.
The gentleman on the left asked a pretty straightforward question about whether other marriages apart from being between a man and a woman are good, which was reiterated after asking what the boundaries or restrictions were for the union within marriages. But the gentleman on the right could not just simply answer (which I don't know if he just didn't understand the question) while offering nothing short of this convoluted response, each time. Such a shake-my head-moment for me. Growing in my Christian faith, I've realized the simplicity of things and my soul has been more at peace even though I do still struggle with sin. We tend to want to overcomplicate things (the Truth) and that has proven to be a recipe for chaos.
He is intentionally being vague in his answers as to not offend and therefore not take a stance in anything
@@reasonforhopewithin there was a component of trying not to offend ("I'm still learning" is code for that), but I don't think he was being intentionally vague. From a progressive standpoint, it is not concepts and overarching ideas that are right or wrong but rather the power dynamic of the people within them.
For example, he could not say outright at first that child marriages are bad, as none of the people in the marriage are mentioned. But the fact that children are in a different class of power than adults is the way that he could come around to say it is bad, regardless of the individuals.
This same standpoint is what makes it difficult for him to answer questions about polygamous and polyamorous relationships. The fact that it is polygamous or polyamorous in itself doesn't matter, but rather if power could be evenly distributed across all the individuals.
Having a completely even seven way split of power is something he cannot rule out via inherent power differences but is also something he has never seen, as it would be very difficult to pull off in the real world if it were possible (humans naturally form power hierarchies, so a long-term instance of this would be rare indeed just from a naturalistic standpoint). Therefore it is impossible from the progressive standpoint to say if it is good or bad one way or another unless he knows the people, and, more importantly, the power dynamic involved.
As a result, he cannot say that these things are bad unless the complex power dynamic is further investigated for inherent power inequalities, but he cannot also say they are good, as he hasn't been shown one that is power equal, although he is open to such an example existing.
He did answer. His limits are significant power imbalance (which is always the case between a child and an adult) and the absence of full consent from all parties.
blah blah blah. Why should his answer not be "convoluted"? Like, does he have to answer according to ya timeline????
@@reasonforhopewithin bull 💩
..... This guy accurately displays the confusion of Progressive Christianity. There is no biblical justification of any of 'his ideas'.. ... Plus he did not answer any of the questions given to him
The fact that he wouldn’t directly answer nearly all of the questions posed to him drove me nuts more than anything he said.
It’s the literally definition of taking the Bible and trying to make it fit your life or views instead of trying to align your life and views to the Bible.
@@masonjones3427 -_-
I agree. He has so many issues with Biblical truth how does he determine which verses he agrees with. By the way, Christ speaks more on hell than he does heaven.
Exactly. I am intrigued to listen to Colby but following this logic is so hard. He doesn’t stand on anything solid. His thoughts are all over the place. I think his stand is I want to question everything and therefore it’s open for interpretation.
Owen is so gentle and graceful as he refrains from verbally destroying his guy.
Notice how he keeps saying “to me”, “my view”, things of that sort. He’s made himself God, this is the easiest form of wolf in sheep’s clothing. Pray for this man, he’s not only headed for eternal hell, but also leading other people there as well.
Funny, when he acknowledges it’s his view, that implies to me that he is aware this is his subjective opinion, that he isn’t speaking for God. I’m always baffled when humans and pastors speak as though they have complete and objective understanding of God. I deeply appreciate the humility in Colby’s acknowledgment that this is the Bible through his interpretation, understanding, research, and opinion, not the only objective interpretation.
Both men are sharing their interpretation and belief. Saying “my view” communicates clearly to me that Colby is humble and honest enough to know he is not God, and cannot speak for God.
You've made yourself God by judging him and finding him guilty.
@@KarynThurston God has spoken through the Bible and so when the conservative pastor says the Bible should be taken at its word it should be taken that way. The progressive guy says what he thinks because he doesn't like what is so obvious through the Bible. Even after seeing that the Bible say 'man shall not lie with man, like a woman' he still argues otherwise. The Bible read plainly doesn't support his 'opinions' at all!!
Hey Emily - yeah, I totally see how it feels that way. I spent 30 years firmly believing that progressive Christians were terribly disrespectful of the Bible and destined for hell. All I can say is: having seen first hand how lovingly, respectfully, and with what tireless dedication many progressive pastors, like Colby here, engage scripture - how they seek to know if wholly, and honestly, even in the face of thousands of comments like the ones you’ll find here calling them names and condemning them to burn, I have the utmost respect for their dedication to pursuing God and understanding the Bible. You don’t have to agree with me! But I am incredibly grateful for what I have learned from their fearless pursuit of context and love. I am incredibly grateful to witness the overwhelming avalanche of beautiful good fruit it brings.
I’m glad love is big enough for all of us.
@@waynemongo Jesus said to judge with right judgement. John 7:24. Read your word.
Owen gives Colby the Gospel and Colby responds: "I disagree with everything you just said there." A "Christian" who does not believe any of the constituent elements of the Gospel, is not a Christian.
@Hunter Vaughan "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas and then to the Twelve. After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep." 1. Cor. 15: 2-5
"For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead- Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath." 1 Thess. 1: 9-10
@@tylerpedersen9836 Boom!..and the hunter becomes the quarry.
@Hunter Vaughan
All your questions are quickly answered when you read AND study your Bible. Even Jesus’s own word when He was on the cross were “Tetelestai!” which means “It is finished!” Before he died. If you do a study on this word and the context of Jesus’s ministry you would recognize that Jesus was saying that the debt was paid! What debt? The whole world has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We all have gone our own way and have at some point rejected God and His commands. God therefore being a Holy God and our creator has every right to punish us for our sins. His wrath was on us because we chose to continue in our sin starting from Adam and Eve.
This is because God is a Just God who does not allow sins to go unpunished. You cannot have a living God without Him also being a Just God, it would be like saying a father must always love and if anyone kills his daughter he has no right to punish the murderer who did so. Rather His love is what drives him to bring justice to the murderer.
Just because you don’t agree with Gods loving and Just character does not mean you can change his character to be made in your own image which is exactly the thing you accuse others of doing.
So continuing with The Gospel, since we must be justly punished for our sins and the Jews would sacrifice a lamb or other animals to wash them of their sins then the ultimate sacrifice was Jesus Christ who took away the sins of the world and which is why He said “It is finished!” Because now no longer did the Jews need to continue sacrificing since he completed that sacrifice which took away the sins of The World. You have to remember the context is of a Jewish traditional one therefore there needs not be any confusion of The Gospel when we simply study our bibles. It is so very clear but only becomes confusing when we make God in our own image and don’t want God to be Justly wrathful against a wicked and adulterous generation. Go now and read and let Jesus’s own words give you sight. No more confusion needed.
@Hunter Vaughan
I’ll have to put that on my watch later list. Interesting start of the video though haha.
@Hunter Vaughan
Watched the whole thing and these are my thoughts:
This guy is extremely full of himself and possibly possessed. Before I get into the content,I just want to mention the “spirit” he seems to have. He talks about “channeling” and has this whole “new mystics” program which screams out New Age. If you don’t know what New Age is, it’s basically accepting all religions and reading into Buddhist, Hindu teachings and believing we are all gods. It also has elements of self worship and drug use yoga and channeling different spirits. This latter part seems to be what this false teacher has drawn into his version of “Christianity”.
If you have a discerning spirit you know that mocking is not of God and this is what this guy does nonstop throughout the sermon. That right away shows that he is not of God or has fallen away for a time until he repents. The rest is shown by his maniacal laughing and dressing up as a clown and all sorts of demons in the end. Don’t believe his words even if it contains some truth! I will show you why we shouldn’t with scripture.
These are things AND PEOPLE God hates edinf to scripture:
Proverbs 6:16-19
New International Version
16 There are six things the Lord hates,(A)
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,(B)
a lying tongue,(C)
hands that shed innocent blood,(D)
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,(E)
19 a false witness(F) who pours out lies(G)
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.(H)
Notice how it’s not just the sin that He hates but also the one who commits the sin. That’s not even the only verse. Here’s another:
“The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence” (Psalm 11:5)
Notice again It says clearly that God hates the wicked. It’s not saying wickedness but rather those who commit the wickedness themselves! And furthermore:
God is a righteous judge,
and a God who feels indignation every day.
If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword;
he has bent and readied his bow;
he has prepared for him his deadly weapons,
making his arrows fiery shafts.
Behold, the wicked man conceives evil
and is pregnant with mischief
and gives birth to lies.
He makes a pit, digging it out,
and falls into the hole that he has made.
His mischief returns upon his own head,
and on his own skull his violence descends. (Psalm 7:11-16)
This is a picture of God’s Judgement and wrath against the wicked. It’s pretty convenient how the speaker just glosses over the reality of Gods wrath just saying “God has wrath because he loves his children.” Well then that means God does hate those who aren’t his children. Right? So were we always Gods children? Here’s what scripture says:
◄ Romans 8:15 ►
New International Version
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
Adopted meaning that’s we once were not his sons. and if so being then the wrath and hatred was also on us before we were adopted! God’s wrath is punishment for sinners. Does a God who only loves everyone send them to be punished in hell? This is probably where John will change the idea of hell to fit his own misconception of God’s wrath against the wicked. Point being, it’s distorted all the way through when we actually read our bibles. So it makes full sense to recognize that we were saved by the blood of Jesus to appease the wrath of God against the wicked by making us righteous in His sight. Sorry The Gospel doesn’t make sense to you and therefore you have to change it to appease your hatred towards God’s real character. May your eyes be opened. God bless.
Mr. Colby, “well I don’t know if I’m the best arbiter of what’s good and not good...” finally he said something accurate!
🤣😂
Neither is the bible a good arbiter. It portrays god as commanding mass slaughter of people who happen to have a different religion
Does that mean Pastor Owen does, though? A pastor assuming they know God's will exactly seems terribly self-righteous to me...
pff , go back to sleep ya clown?
Progressive "christian" absolutely breaks my heart
i am watching and hurting too
Agreed. This is very hard to listen too. My heart is sad for all those who will be deceived by teaching like this. I praise God for being raised in a home that introduced me to the true God and thought me to seek the Lord through prayer and the reading of his word, not of feelings and how it makes me feel. We can’t decide what parts of the bible are truth or myth to fit how we want to live.
Dark shirt gentleman sadly has followed a god of his imagination. He has rejected the God of the Bible, and now subject his own moral standard as the objective standard.
@@KimNguyentrade that's funny because we have a werid image of jesus that isn't true those paintings of jesus in church isn't even him it's a painting from devinci and the person that's painted was a adaptation of his gay lover that he would be with that was also talk about him sleeping with his sister (or cousin) idk I forgot.
@@bd__1232 it's not watered down if he is doing exactly what God and Jesus wanted (NOT TO JUDGE PEOPLE) and to love anyone no matter what even if they have sinned you guy don't understand stuff
In the first 5 seconds of the video the progressive guy admits he doesn’t believe in the infallibility of the Bible. Enough said.
I don’t mean that to bash him, I’m just saying that’s what underpins his worldview.
Facts! Actually in that doctrine they teach that the word is simply for inspiration and they don’t believe it’s actually accurate. Notice they also separate God of the Hebrews from their God. They don’t believe they are the same. Anytime he spoke of a God that judges sin he made him abstract and distance also mythical but when he spoke of the God he recognized then he was personal again. They teach that our Christian God is bad and they say he’s “abusive”. But yes they invalidate the scripture and that is how they can believe what they do and not he convicted by what it says, they don’t believe it’s the end all be all.
You don’t have to believe it’s completely infallible for it be basically reliable.
@@jordandthornburg Well it can't be the word of God and then be fallible. So if then if it's fallible then it's not the word of God and as such, is not reliable because it's no better than the Koran, Writings of Confucianism or Buddhism, all of which, being written and inspired ONLY by humans are not divine and thus not really "spiritually reliable".
How can God's Word be infallible if it is written by mortal, sinful humans? I thought God's ways were higher than ours?
God's Word is infallible. But the pen of a man who is fallible could not possibly be infallible. Our salvation in Christ is infallible. But while we live in the material world, we are subject to a fallible, at best, incomplete understanding of God in His fullness.
I think the better question is: are we allowing ourselves to be lead by God in our understanding or are we simply choosing not to be lead by God? Humans have made errors in preaching and practicing God's infallible Word before. How do humans know they got the practice of denouncing LGBTQ+ people correct?
You have a very small god if you think he can't use fallible men and produce/maintain His word. When you abandon the infallibility of God's word, you abandon the absolute moral standard we stand on (the Truth - the actual truth not "my truth" or "her truth"). Notice when the progressive non-Christian abandons the Word, he starts to sound like a fool. He claims to not be the arbiter but then proceeds to say "I think" about a half dozen times (he makes himself the arbiter). He talks out of both sides of his mouth every sentence that came after his rejection of God's truth. If the Bible is not infallible, why even be a Christian?!
Truth is not subjective. It is black and white. God is the only measure, not your comfort level. This is heartbreaking.
This man rejects hell, judgement and truth. He says it doesn't fit the life of Jesus. My friend, Jesus came to save us from eternal judgement in hell. Just bc it's uncomfortable doesn't make it untrue.
He can't even comfortably answer the questions asked. I love how Owen(PhD in Theology) kept at it, even when it was dodged.
What evidence do you have that any of what the bible tells us is the word of a god and that we should listen to any of it? :)
@@Criticalthinking_ most of the Bible is historic and about 1/4 of it is prophecy. A lot of it has come to pass. Most of the Bible is on the Jewish nation and how God has lead it to where is is now. This is how we can know a Divine hand is at work. The Bible also proclaims he will judge us for all our sins we have committed. And we will either spend eternity with him or in hell away from him in a lake of fire. I think it’s at least worthy of having anyone hear what the Bible has to say. There’s a reason there are so many Christinas. There is enough evidence if you’re willing to look. I hope you do. God bless.
@@Criticalthinking_ what evidence do you have that it is not the word of God?
@@Boostleaked burden of proof, read up on it and get back to me.
@@PipTheBoss its historic yes, that says nothing about its validity. For one, If it did u would have to be a muslim, a buddhist and belive alot of other religions aswell as they have historic events in their scriptures aswell.
Could u give an example of a prophecy that is specific? Like with a date when something should happen. Not something along the lines of ”a city will be built some time in the future ” style prophecys.
Colby the pastor is expressing himself in the same way a blind man would if he were trying to get out of a dark room. May he find the Light soon.
If the man is blind, what difference does it make if the room is dark or not?
may you find the light, darls
Amen to that 💗
Guy with a beard doesn't believe in the bible, he believes in himself.
I don't think either did very well. The correct response would have been, "Lord Jesus Christ, I am unworthy of you and your mercy, for I am an unworthy sinner. I have no right to judge anyone. Lord Jesus, I continually (against your word and instructions) love pointing out the wrongs in others and I become blinded to my own sinfulness. Like the Pharisee, I have become self-righteous, judgemental and proud. Oh Lord Jesus Christ, save me from the fires of hell as this is were I justifiably deserve to go, These poor gay people try so hard to be loved, and as the Pharisee we condemn them. Lord Jesus, I don't remember the last time I asked you for mercy for my own sinfulness. Please forgive me the wretched sinner.,"
@@jean-pauldebeer8151 beautifully said
@@jean-pauldebeer8151 we are called to judge righteously
@@jas8034 amen! And also, @jean I get what you mean, but let’s remember that this man is a preacher himself...Jesus tells us the gate to the kingdom is narrow...but let’s also remember that he also said “the path” is narrow too..we can’t lead the church astray, it’s heresy, and it could lead to flock being led to eternal death
@@jas8034 We all have self-righteous, judgemental and proud sinful tendencies. Try not let yours bubble over to much, it will go better for you to ask for mercy for your own sinfulness. Try using the Jesus prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner" This prayer can be said in-between all other prayers. To keep the unceasing prayer going.
Conservative: *beautifully explains the Gospel*
Progressive: “Yeah, I completely disagree with everything you said”
;-;
It wasn't the gospel, it was his view of the interpretation of a dead language
@@charlotteboi12 Ummm greek isn't dead...
@@sammyamador1380 the form of Greek used back then isn’t used anymore. And the cultural connotations don’t exist anymore either
@@charlotteboi12 However just as experts, linguists, and historians can read Latin (which is dead) and understand the historical connotations of it being used in certain manuscripts, so can they with the Greek and the New Testament
@@sammyamador1380 to a degree, yeah. However, there is a large amount of debate and disagreement in the nuance of several cultural norms. The papers written about them tend to get pretty creative in the secondary sources they use to support their claims
"If you marry the mood or the spirit of the age, then you will be a widow in the next one " -Fulton J. Sheen 🙏🏽
whoa, awesome quote
@@tylerpedersen9836 if you have time you should definetly look up "life is Worth Living" by Fulton J. Sheen. His words are so true and are so important for todays times.
*If you claim to be Christian, yet disagree with Christ, stop calling yourself a Christian because you are not.*
Well said, Teddy. I agree!
@@mrcolbymartin lol
Help: How do you reconcile the apparent non condemnation of slavery in the Bible with our modern ways? Why would God gives Moses instructions on how to handle slaves instead of telling him that slavery is ungodly?
“When a man sells his daughter as a concubine,[d] she is not to leave as the male slaves do. 8 If she is displeasing to her master, who chose her for himself, then he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners because he has acted treacherously toward her."
Jesus didn't say anything about gay people.
@@Magnulus76 What do you think? Is the books of corinthians and genesis the inspired Word of God?
That frame shot @30:00 is super powerful to me because you can see the “pastor” trying to explain his point with his eyes closed (blind) while the Christian is patiently listening with his eyes open (in Christ).
umm, GET A BRAIN SCAN!
He does an interview with Sean McDowell and his eyes are closed the entire time..
Hats off to the conservative for keeping his cool despite a lot of condescension and not constantly jumping on all the self defeating thing the other man was saying
seek HELP
The progressive guy just has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about
Amen.
Yes, but he's very sure he does.
Actually he's very clearly showing humility and realness in his answers. He isn't sure about all the things. These things are complicated. What you're reacting to is his honestly and humility. You probably aren't used to these things.
No don't decieve other people here by saying this is honesty or humility because he posseses neither. He is speaking from the flesh to please the flesh of others and he is not helping anyone just leading them further away from God.
@@sion1677 Incorrect. Strongly disagree.
*Owen: Colby, what is 1+1?*
*Colby: Well it depends what you mean by 1...*
😞😒😕😭😒😕😭
"what do you mean by 1" is literally math though. Are you talking base 10, base 5, base 2 etc? ... Context is key, you can't just assume you're on the same page as everyone. God loves questions and exploring the nuances of life
Wow. The more Colby talks, the more he goes on how he "feels". Prayers for him
pff
This guy is just confused. He doesn't know what he believes.
I just looked him up on Facebook and watched a small portion of his podcast video...I saw him use the word enneagram and realized that's what we're dealing with here.😳
Be careful not to condescend or assume to know what he is thinking or believing. Verbal processing doesn't mean one is confused, it means they talk out their train of thought so you see the messy beginning and how they get to their end point.
@@dizzydisciple He offered answers to every single question...
@@robbinsnest6163 So the presence of the enneagram in his podcast is the sum of the measure of his viewpoint?
@@charlotteboi12 "having a response" and "answering" are two different actions. "Progressive" responded to "Conservative" by deconstructing everything that "Conservative" said. Therefore, Progressive responded with no real concrete answers
“I don’t know if I’m the best arbiter of what is right or wrong.”
That’s the point, nobody is. That is why we rely on God’s written word to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
Chile idt u need a book to tell you how to be a GOOD person. Do onto others what you’d want done to yourself, we learned this as kids. Don’t hurt anyone or yourself and just live your life...
So, this is ok??? Darn, I disagree with all these, but if you say my idea of what's right is wrong.......🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
www.openbible.info/topics/beating_a_slave
what and you think the construction you put on it is the only valid one??
@@camerong5513 it’s the only consistent one that speaks authoritatively on without falsehood, yes.
@@latrellcasey1544 you’re trying to disprove the need for a book by quoting the book. Jesus said “And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.” You learn these things because they come from somewhere.
How would you know killing is wrong unless God told you killing is wrong? Does society coming together and agreeing on it make it so?
"We don't need a bible" bye you're not a Christian.
That’s not very Christian of you.
@@NeptuneGuy78 Yes it is we are told to call out false teachings and teachers.
@@SleepySylvanians God had given us the mental facilities to question the very nature of our reality. Ostracizstion of those individuals shouldn’t be our intent or goal. “Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise." 1 Corinthians 3:18
@@NeptuneGuy78 That has nothing to do with calling out false teachers, this guy has followers who listen to him telling them they don't need the Bible. The Bible is the foundation for us to know Christ and for a pastor of all people to say we don't need a bible is complete heresy
@@SleepySylvanians I apologize for my first comment, it was in poor taste and completely untrue.
In regards to the video, what do you think the progressive pastor is arguing in relation to learning the faith? I hope you have a blessed evening.
“Oh so you think Adam and Eve are actually real people” WHAAAAAAAAATTTT
not everybody does... not every follower of jesus /student of the scriptures does...
@@davidjivan these are foundational truths. Why not believe what's written?
@@jesusislife2837 People get confused when scientists come out with their new weekly theories about the truth of the universe. Instead of abandoning their faith, they mold it to fit these theories.
@@jesusislife2837 believing Human and Life (Adam and Eve, hebrew names) were real historical people through whom all of humanity emerged is a way many people interpret Genesis.
but there are many others who understand Human and Life to be archetypal figures in a story telling truths about humanity’s purpose (rather than the story being some kind of “security camera footage” where it’s describing historical events as they happened)
so it’s not that people aren’t believing fundamental truths, it’s just a different understanding of what the stories are conveying.
does that make sense?
@@davidjivan @David Jivan yes I think I understand but it seems clear that God is literally telling us that the creation of Adam and Eve is a part of our history and the beginning of mankind. The bible references Adam as the first Adam and Jesus as the last Adam meaning two different things but for 2 literal beings that existed in history. I think its dangerous to not take it as such. The genealogy of Jesus goes all the way back to Adam in Luke 3: 23-38
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45
It's really sad to see this man with the beard labeled a "pastor" and claim to believe in the God of the Bible, yet almost all of his beliefs are clearly anti-biblical
The Bible isn't God. Many people believe in Christ but don't take the Bible literally.
@@joannajett2524 The word is God - John 1:1
He can’t even say that child/man marriages are bad. The reality of relativism .
But he did though...
I know
@@charlotteboi12 when?
@@AnthonyPearson4JesusofNazareth 17:16 - "if there is a significant imbalance in power in any relationship, now we're treading into some real dangerous waters." 17:34 - "that's wrong, we are damaging the fundamental essence of what it means to be human." 17:44 - "so when you're talking about underage marriage, immean we don't need a bible or a divine document with prescription on how marriage should go. we don't need that to say, no, we have real good reasons why that is not something that should happen." "So that culture's wrong; that culture shouldn't do that." "Certainly, yeah."
@@charlotteboi12 yeh he did say it but it certainly took him long to say no lol it was a pretty easy question to answer, I mean it was either yes or no. He gave this whole speech and then had to be essentially asked again like numerous times with other questions
I appreciate how these men listen and respect the other.
are you serious? The contempt from silly, sunday school narc on the left is clear!
A respectful, thoughtful, and thought-provoking dialogue (without raised voices, interruptions, or name calling!). We could benefit from similar civil discourse in every sector of our society.
24:56 Owen Strachan begins the hermeneutical equivalent of storming Normandy Beach. Then he preaches the gospel to a lost man. Praying for a new heart, repentance, and walking in a newness of life for Colby.
haha, good one
Wow- I don’t even know where to begin. This is a devastatingly tragic conversation to watch and listen to. Obviously, even with the most gracious charity, I cannot consider this “progressive” gentleman to be a Christian, nor a pastor when considering the Biblical picture of both. In a segment of the conversation, he constantly states, “we know...”, “we know...”, “we know...”. Many times making objective truth claims, though with no justification other than man’s subjective whims. This is a stunning picture that God paints in His word of the individual whose mind is darkened because it is devoid of the knowledge of God. He is a false teacher, teaching damnable ideas. I say that not as an attack but as my heart breaks witnessing the consequences of man’s rebellion against the one, true God. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...” . Pray for his salvation.
subjective whims -gimme a break: to what do you imagine Owen was consulting!?
I took the time to go to the instagram of Pastor Colby and I'm pretty shocked because I didn't know that "progressive christianity" exists and also that it was so popular.
I really liked this video because I can see a great example in professor Owen in how to deal with this situations and portray the gospel. Because what I can see is that this type of "christianity" is going to grow like the Bible says. People will prefer their own desires rather than God's Word.
lady, stop stuffing c**k in that box if ya want to be taken with anything more than levity, here
Pray for the man in black. He doesn't know the true name of Jesus Christ :(
The bearded man 👍🏾
He has rejected Him. One day he just decided that the Bible wasn't enough. Dangerous place to be
Yahusha Ha’Mashiach is his name not Jesus
@@jaysmity7612 its Yeshua Ha’Mashiach
geez, you're so far wrong there's just no point in discourse with you
He sounds like a typical Progressive Christian. No answers and never answering a question directly.
"We were all created in the image of God" I interpret that scripture to mean, all living and breathing thing's are extensions of the universe/God consciousness. We are all one link to the creator. God is having a universal experience through all life forms throughout space and time.
'k
ALOT more of these conversations need to be shown. It's respectful but shows the STARCH contract between actual Christians and those using the title to prop up something malevolent.
There’s so many things that Owen could’ve torn to shreds biblically that this “pastor” said but he retained grace the entire time and I find that so commendable. I couldn’t have done it, I found myself getting mad actually at some of the things Colby said and I would’ve lost my cool. This guy is leading people astray and will be accountable for so many lost souls. Hats off to Owen. God bless you brother, you’re a true man of God and show so much grace and composure while not compromising an inch. Way to represent Christ man, I’m humbled by your performance.
Amen
hahahaha
Ahh, this conversation has been weighing so heavily on my heart. Listen, it's entirely possible for people to interpret things differently, and even for Christians to have valid philosophical struggles with certain things in the bible / the infallibility of the bible. We've been arguing about it for a long time. Both emotionally and intellectually, christianity is confusing; it's heavy. And anyone who claims it isn't clearly hasn't wrestled with it enough, or perhaps has never bothered to stay up late at night pondering their own existence. Faith is a very difficult thing - ask any biblical figure - and I feel for Colby. He clearly loves others, likley more than many 'Christians', and is trying to make sense of tenants he believes are harmful, to ensure that the love of God he grew up with is accessible to everyone. That's beautiful and noble and honestly it reflects God's heart.
But... here's the thing. In the end, the the one thing that is absolutley essential about christianity - the necessary thing that stands clear above all interpretive differences - is a belief in God; a God with a standard. The absence of the standard is pretty much nihilism if I'm not mistaken. Is it difficult to grapple with what that standard is? Yes. Have we gotten it wrong before? Yes. Will we get it wrong again? Absolutely. But can any of these questions or struggles have meaning at all without that foundational belief? No, they can't.
Colby man, you can still change the world for the better while being unsure of how to label yourself exactly. But, these flooded comment sections look like this for a reason... and it's better to admit that you're unsure than to confidently assert you're a Christian without really knowing what that means. Wrestle with it for a while. "Fight with God" just like many of the biblical heroes before you did. And then come back and have this talk again when you know if you believe in a God or not. Regardless of your conclusions , God will still love and pursue you until the day you die. That's my belief at least.
That may be the cheesiest thing I've ever said.
Sincerely,
Someone who has been there
Though I don’t share your viewpoint, thank you for the humanity and kindness and love in this comment. It was hugely refreshing to read.
geez, you were off to a good start then lost it completely with your need to take a position, and frankly, little more than word salad
Not cheesy at all, this is an incredible comment. God bless you
So frustrating watching this...the progressive pastor spends way too much time dancing around the questions he's asked. He can't just give a straight answer on whether child marriages and polygamy is sin. I don't really understand why he even wants to be a "pastor" as he doesn't seem to actually believe anything in the Bible.
Yes, so annoying!! Ugh, why call yourself a pastor? Maybe for his new religion.
Pray for him. He's lost
This is the point he is making throughout the whole conversation. He believes sin and truth are not as simple and clear as people may think they are. He is not seteling for easy anwsers
@@amaarmenteros1594 agree. At this point everything he says sounds like something out of a sect, cant be further from the biblical truth
@@kareldebaere9371 being a transformed Christian is the furthest thing from easy answers. It's much easier to change the gospel to adapt to the current culture. Holding fast to the great sacrifice that Jesus made for a sinful humanity is super hard because I think most people would love to not deal with hard topics but chalk it up to,"Jesus loves you, He knows your heart, just be a good person" and there is grace, as we keep looking at the Jesus and have a relationship with Him he transforms us from glory to glory.
What a bubble Colby lives in: "Oh, you believe Adam and Eve are literal people?" He just assumes that no one believes that especially Christians, that's crazy.
Yeah somehow he thinks all Christians have his progressive “untrusting” view of the Bible.
It’s always interesting to witness how progressive “Christians” view the entire Bible as “some book” and never divine truth.
To Colby: Just because something happens in the Bible does not mean it is justified by God. In every instance of polyamory or polygamy that takes place in the Bible, it ends very very badly. Maybe the Bible tells those stories as a warning to not do those things?
It annoys me when progressive Christians bring up the argument of “but this thing happened in the Bible! Therefore it must be ok because the Bible mentions it!”. They don’t realize that the Bible mentions many things, many stories, but it doesn’t mean god says it is ok. When you ask them where in the Bible does god say that such things are ok, they can’t give you an answer. They twist the Bible to their own convenience. Furthermore, even if we played by their logic in which just because something happens in the Bible it means it’s ok, why do they only cherry pick the convenient things? Murder happened a lot in the Bible. Why aren’t these false Christians saying then that murder is ok, since it’s in the Bible? Incest happened as well. Why aren’t they saying that incest should be allowed? Because even they know that it is wrong.
The fact that the “pastor” couldn’t say “yes I believe child brides are a bad thing”... says everything. If you have no outline or boundaries to follow, you will have no limit to what you choose to accept as right & wrong
But he did though...
And yet god impregnated a 13 year old betrothed girl. Gross af
He did say it. Though he said underaged, which to me is even broader, because any teenager would tell you they're not a child, and it's still wrong for them to be married.
I think it’s important to note that child brides occur more commonly in extremely religious societies (including Christians) more than it does in atheists/secular societies...
Well that is how we got Jesus, but yes obviously in modern culture it's not acceptable
The fact that this man is pastoring a church is scary
Yup and he can't even remember specific scriptures, I wonder if he has ever even read it.
Dangerous mind dark shirt man
Yes, that is the scariest of all.
You mean the man who claims all humans are inherently bad, even children, although we're supposedly made in the image of an inherently good God? Or the one who questions translations of stories retold for centuries before they were even written down in their original form?
@@zachp.4157 You can't both claim that we're still all made in the image of God today and that we're inherently bad at the same time, or that would make God bad (or it means God makes mistakes, at least).
When I said centuries, I was referring to the texts of the Old Testament such as Genesis, not the Gospel.
I appreciated the productive and respectful dialogue-I was a bit shocked by the reasonableness of both sides. Gratefulness for the eloquence and engagement!
One of these men is feckless and rationalizes everything. The other is confident and rests in truth. Guess which is which.
Feckless...awesome word choice, it shall be added to my vocabulary.
nah, like you it's not a matter of guess-work
7:40 Theology PhD (clean shaven) dude looking at the Progressive like, “....that’s literally the Bible. Have you ever read it?”
The expression is ' does this dude pump butts'
Just a joke. Obviously I hope God reveals this man the truth so he can stop subverting Christianity
Literally what I was thinking.
bull 💩
The "divine document" is called the Holy Bible. It's supposed to be a believer only standard for truth and what's right. God's Holy Word is not subject to man's opinions.
This isn't what Jesus taught.
@@4thbrooker Jesus never deviated from the Father's will or the Father's Word. He specifically said the scripture can't be broken. Yes it is what Jesus taught. Maybe not what you want Jesus to teach or what you think he taught, but it's all in there.
@@jamesfarris4213 No, it isn't. Maybe it is because it's what you want to believe or what you think he taught, but it isn't there.
@@4thbrooker what exactly are you claiming that Jesus didn't teach? Do you mind to clarify?
And yet...even Paul occasionally said in his own epistles that that he was saying was his own opinion and not from the Lord. Later his opinion would become canonized. There are many examples in scripture where authors occasionally contradict, reinterpret or ethically revise authors that came before.
The Bible is not the infallible word of God, Jesus is. It is a library of books that ultimately point us toward Jesus but also sometime conflict with each other in narrative, theology and in ethics. It is not all equally inspired and does not even claim infallibility for itself. There are many archaic passages that should be considered morally repulsive to followers of Christ. Every passage should kneel before the Living Christ. The Word transcends the words.
For someone who spends alot of time saying he can't know truth he sure makes alot of bold "truth" claims. Also his arguments are based in alot of emotional feelings. Not a good way of determinimg your view of truth
It’s sad to think of all the people led astray by the progressive “pastor” just because he justifies their emotions.
ok
@@camerong5513 ???
28:00 he flat out denied the gospel message... This man is in no sense a Christian. Pray for his soul
The Bible isn't Christ.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at but...
Christ is the revealed Word of God.
John 1:1-2 (ESV): "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."
The Bible clearly depicts Chist as the incarnate Word of God. (The Bible is God's Word). Therefore, to deny God's Word is equivalent to denying Christ as God has revealed Him.
@@samcummings261 Yes, it is said that Christ is the Word of God. Not the Bible. Do you believe the book you own was with God in the beginning of times? All the stories told in the Bible were passed on orally for centuries before being written down and then translated thousands of times, with words changing at every translation.
@@joannajett2524 There are many different paths I could take in responding to your comment but I will just say this:
There is no distinction between the Word of God and the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16 (ESV): "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"
And the whole biblical canon, down to the last dot, did not originate from man's will but from divine inspiration given by the Holy Spirit (God-breathed). 2 Peter 1:21 (ESV): "For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Clearly, the Bible claims itself to be inerrant.
@@samcummings261 That could be true of the original text, but I doubt God inspired everyone who translated it all over the world. Unless you think He also did?
Pray for this wolf in sheep’s clothing. He’s repudiated the Authority of God’s Word & made himself the arbiter of truth.
May God save Colby
It is heartbreaking. Let's pray for him and his family.
Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Exactly.
y'all being rude
@@a.kamileonRude? How so? Because the bible teaches that believers
should be accommodating to false teachers? This man is lost and needs to be saved from the hell that he doesn't believe in.
@@M3MAX HE IS A PASTOR, THAT MATTERS FAR MORE THAN MANY ARE ACKNOWLEDGING..."If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 john 10-11...i dont think thats a call to pray for him or any false teacher...at all...scriptures speak of open rebuke and marking them as wolves...to avoid them...etc...they are the ones who will lead others to eternal darkness, their deceit (intentional or not) condemns them...no man so deceived should step foot on an altar n i have no clue why he'd choose such a profession
it must be so hard trying to be a Christian but also trying to destroy it at the same time Colby Has to be so careful with his words
@Anchored North these are great videos with great questions! Thank you for your sacrifice and willingness to get this to us lay people.
If it seems like this dude is making stuff up on the fly, its cause he is.
Verbal processing is not quite that - also, be careful to assume someone else's circumstances or motives or intentions.
which one?
He lays down the gospel for him so clearly and just rejects it entirely..
@Hunter Vaughan look up "Paul Washer. The gospel. The most terrifying truth of scripture.." here on UA-cam.
@Hunter Vaughan what a nice way to give "gentle rebuke" to someone (M. O.D.) for supplying an answer to a question that wasn't directed for them to answer. 🙏🙏😇
yea, who are you talking of?
3:35 That story relates to Lot. And it was his daughters who had the idead to get him drunk in order to procreate. Noah was discovered by his sons naked in his tent after getting drunk.
Thank you, as soon as he said that I was like "Noah?, Noo..ah...Wasn't that Lot?"
This is the second time I’ve heard someone say it was Noah that slept with his daughters and I’m like “???? Pretty sure that was Lot after Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?”
Owen is a wonderful example of a Godly man who speaks truth with integrity and intelligence.
Guy on right tries to quote scripture, forgets the 2 lines of it, and says "whatever it is says". Doesn't even know what the Bible says, yet he's a pastor? Nah
Feel free to call me Colby.
Sincerely,
The “Dude/Guy on the Right”
Heretic.
@@mrcolbymartin You are worshiping the devil . you haven’t even picked up a bible a day in your life . i’ll pray for you
do you get left and right confused!?
@@70ina25 cool story maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
For a man who says Christians can't be sure of anything, Martin sure is sure of a lot.
That, for instance.
I am sure that your comment of Martin being sure is very sure
@@Rhantismos23 I am sure that your comment on Daniel's comment about martin being sure about being sure is very sure
Colby: "I disagree with everything you just said there" other dude: ·_·
*His hands and pout when listening to Colby... 😂
The Holy Spirit gives us the mind of Christ.
If you're in a liberal "church", get out quick. Stop playing games with God. Time is short.
I know the guy isn't a Christian. Because how is possible for me, a 17yr old to have more knowledge than a pastor about the word?
Isn’t it Christ alone though? If not then how much knowledge of the Bible is necessary to be saved?
@@omi8015 If you are saved, you will act like it. By repenting of your sins. You are saved by believing in Chriat, and if you believe in Christ you will act like it, and to do so you need to learn/know how a follower of him is supposed to act. That can only be obtained by scripture.
@@triplemoyagames4195 I would agree. But I am still confused as there are some “Christians” who claim to accept Jesus as their Lord, they read and learn from the Bible, but they still understand it entirely different than I do. The only thing that gives me peace at night is that, while they may be confused, Jesus’s blood will still overcome their ignorance and pride. I would consider myself to be a very conservative christian, however, I feel like we tend to forget that before Jesus died, there was the Law. We were not meant to follow it but to understand that we cannot follow it. When Jesus came, He did not abolish the Law but fulfilled it in our place, because we could not. The whole point of Jesus is that he does something that we cannot, He is the solution to the problem and we are part of the problem. We cannot be perfect or even close, but we can have faith. I believe that if someone truly accepts Christ as their savior, Jesus will overcome whatever foolish ideas and delusions they had while living. You are saved through faith, so that no man may boast. I believe that applies to the context of boasting about how much scripture you may know. Lol
@@omi8015 I get what you're saying. But like you said, he came to fulfill the law NOT abolish it. Meaning we do not have a free pass to do whatever we want because we are "saved".
Even if we are not supposed to follow the old testament, we are supposed to follow the new. and in the knew we are called not to sin and to follow the word numerous times.
If you are saved, you are supposed to show it by your works. A Christian is supposed to be identified by the works, not their word.
James 2: 14- 17 , "(14) What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? (15) If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, (16) and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? (17 )So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Age doesn’t equate to maturity. That’s how.
Pastor Colby does a great job in pinning him on a number of topics.
Pastor Strachan really managed this well. He was always very patient and respectful. Showing the love of God to this person, and also standing for the truth of God and His word.
5:54 Have you ever heard of a Christian refer to God as a "the god character"?
I still don't understand why they referred to him as progressive Christianity. I don't understand it
SO WHAT!?
A Christian vs an American Relativist "I'm a good person" thinker.
But you'll be quick to notice that Colby, by definition of his salvation, acknowledges Christ. What this progressive pastor questions is the human license to interpret scripture. Which, interestingly, Owen refuses to acknowledge why Owen gives himself license to interpret scripture in his mind, while others may interpret scripture differently.
Barring the fact that relativism wants to attempt to deny the existence of sin and God, by proxy, Owen would do the same, in lieu of the opposite: prove God exists and that humans can interpret God's morality by our finite mind.
I agree with Cobly: how do human's know that we got a certain version of morality right?
It is only after making a lot of mistakes through trial and error, with the poor result of hurting God's people, that we come to a better understanding of morality: hence slavery being accepted and taught as moralistic.
Colby submits that the now theological idea that LGBTQ people are sin is a vastly miss-understood action by generalized Christian theology and that such individuals practicing that miss-understood theology thereby are hurting a section of God's people.
The debate should be open minded and meditated, to those who are LGBTQ+, with patience, prayer, and compassion.
I, in good conscience, will not call a LGBTQ+ person an abomination. That's not my place. God is the author and finisher of faith, the Alpha and Omega. What does He really mean in His Word? Owen thinks God rejects LGBTQ+ people. Cobly thinks God welcomes them.
pff, this is your argument!?
I love this production!
God was and is very straightforward on His ideas of human sexuality and marrige.
Was and is.
@@Tom-yo7zf Exactly!!
@Marie Just Marie Yes He is. Deception has caused all the confusion about this and continues to do so
I agree. Though I won't ask a boomer here to be explicit
I found it funny how the liberal is saying there’s a somewhat weak case made for traditional marriage yet there is actually no case at all made for his position. None whatsoever. His argument is one of silence. Not a safe position to have.
Waiting for Part 3 to come out. :)
" i dont know im the best arbirter of what good or not good" - truest thing bearded guy said.
Thanks Fred!
@@mrcolbymartin Yet you arbritate what good and evil is all the time
oh, and you are, ya ignoramus!?
@@camerong5513 Gods breathed word is. I just appeal to that
you can physically tell how the Holy Spirit is in owen and how he is set apart.
if you're psychotic, yes, perhaps then
This is so interesting, listening and I can’t tell if the man with progressive beliefs actually believes in God, his wording seems very strategic to not say God but then also says “some higher being” often. When referencing the ancient Jewish scriptures he misses a lot of heartache in the choosing of multiple wives. Abraham had to send both Hagar and his son Ishmael away because of the strife caused and he wasn’t obedient in taking her on. His life still carried out Gods purposes but I don’t think that relationship was healthy let alone blessed. David suffered exponentially because of his taking of multiple women, his life still carried out Gods purposes but was harder because of his choices. Same with Solomon. Relationships are hard because we are a fallen people, but we can make them exponentially harder when we make choices that are not aligned with Gods plan, His purposes will still happen in the end though.
❤️❤️❤️
Such a good point!
Amen! Brother! As long as I've been alive and had the privilege to grow up in God's house and develop a relationship with Him I have realized that the most beautiful thing we are as human is the ability to choose and to live any way you want but just as I was taught by my mother every choice we make has a consequence whether good or bad and we have to face the repercussions of them.
Speaking to the heartache of choosing multiple wives I had that same thought. Solomon literally looses his kingdom and we see his children fall from God over and over. Sin is seeking our desires over the will and standard of God. Sin is intrinsic and hold humans captive. We see Isaac live a more peaceful life with just one wife. However again we see Jacob marry 4 and the children hate each other. The Bible’s narrative is clear on the results of sin. I think this is where most people who hold to a relative view of religion often cannot account for
Exactly! It's amazing how people cannot apply the simple logic to discern the Bible's intended meaning that they use for any other literature. Would anyone say that the "Boy who Cried Wolf" endorses lying, because the main character lies so much? Of course not. You hit the nail on the head. Polygamy in the Bible keeps ending in heartbreak, shame, and suffering. To add to the figures you mentioned, Rachel, Leah, and Hannah would attest to how damaging having to compete in polygamous relationships.
Good convo. I think that "well-being" as a baseline for ought is the piece that helps tie up the argument for Colby. How can you draw boundaries for certain expressions of marriage? Well-being is a great boundary. We can measure and understand well-being in many capacities.
well said!
@@mrcolbymartin thanks! My name is Colby as well, actually haha.
Definitely need a number 3 !!!! Please, makes me want to be up here
Proud of Colby for recognizing that the western view of Christianity/ the world is not the only one. Proud that he is asking hard questions and including other world views as he tackles this conversation. I think God gives us the grace to ask these hard questions and to wrestle.
He literally rejected the Gospels as it was explained to him. He has no intellectual right to claim to be a Christian.
@@LawDawg717 Christian = someone who worships Christ. Not the Bible, not the Gospel.
@@joannajett2524 If you don't believe the Gospels to be true, then you're not a Christian. It's like saying you're a vegetarian and eating meat.
@@LawDawg717 The definition of a Christian is someone who worshippes Christ as their God.
@@joannajett2524 Yes, and the Gospel is the source for the claim that Christ is God.
One man using scripture and staying consistent in his logic. The other, using feelings and emotions and moving the goal post when it's convenient to do so. In the beard guy's world view, there is a way to justify any act, you just have to find it.
That's a bit of a leap, isn't it? It *seemed* like he was doing these things, but if you don't believe that different people have emotionally-invested views in their belief systems - just as you do yours - I could see how it might be difficult to see the grounded theology in his answers.
@@charlotteboi12 I do not believe that his beliefs are grounded in theology and I did not come to this conclusion because I fail to realize everyone is "invested emotionally" in their beliefs and that is not the point I was making. I agree everyone is invested emotionally but as christians, it should not be at the expense of what scripture actually says. We should allow scripture to speak for itself, not filter it through what we feel, believe, or want to be true. Ironically enough, he did not even quote scripture.
@@bmurph1723 you don’t have to “believe” whether his beliefs are grounded in theology - he referred to several well-established theological constructs as the basis of his position - it’s an objective fact. Additionally, one of the oldest and most respected approaches to scripture acknowledges reason as one of the foundations by which we read scripture well - which is useful, because reason is how anybody reads anything. Also, I’m not sure what you mean, that he didn’t quote scripture - he quoted several
@@charlotteboi12 Well, using these "well established theological constructs," you can justify any form of marriage and that's not supported theologically. It's a contradiction. He said he may not marry multiple men to multiple woman because he feels it's not fruitful but what he feels is irrelevant. Does scripture support it or not? Staying consistent in his logic, he knows he's forced to say anything goes but he also knows scripture does not support nor has the church for 2000 years believed any form or marriage is justified as long as "love" is involved. That is why I said he is moving the goal post.
@@bmurph1723 I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm not referring to "theological constructs" as in, "he thinks they are." I'm referring to theological constructs that theologians and Biblical scholars have written about for ages. He's not saying "anything goes," btw. He acknowledged the limits of it, including a fervent "negative, ghostrider," to child brides. The goalpost isn't moving any more than it always has - from obnoxious oppression of women, to obnoxious oppression of slaves, to obnoxious oppression of BIPOC and interracial marriages, to now gay marriage, and most new, the idea of polyamory. This is not a groundshaking heresy - this is the adaptation of scripture to the cultural context in which it finds itself - which, contrary to what I can imagine to be your belief, based on your previous comments, is actually, factually a thing that has happened consistently throughout history and the world.
Does progressive mean you don’t read the Bible?
Not necessarily, but it usually means you don't take it literally.
@@joannajett2524 It doesn't even mean you don't take it literally... It means you don't take it into ACCOUNT, sorry but I've seen you in various comment section reply threads and you are not getting any ground or trust in defending this movement of Progressive Christianity
@@amaimonmoore4498 Just listen to actual progressive Christians before you judge them (which according to your religion is God's job anyway). I'm not one. Many of them absolutely do take the Bible into account. I don't. I just hate misinformation is all.
I really enjoyed watching this. The Lord said you know someone by their fruits and Owen was so fruitful during this conversation. His composure was simply inspiring.
Owen brother well done for keeping a sober mind and a calm disposition during this. Many of us would have got so wound up by this false teachers attitude toward scripture. I do hope The Lord gives him repentance but my goodness how far away from the authority of scripture can one man actually get while still professing to be a Christian. He actually claimed Christ didn't speak of people going to hell for eternity. I'll bet his Bible is actually a paint by numbers version.
That’s cuz there is nowhere that unequivocally threatens as such, and as many or more passages that allude to either annihilationism or universalism.
@@arizonajesusperson2095 Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the Bible.... You could use the word unequivocally to state He never claimed to be God but if you're a Christian then you should know better than to confuse the matter.
www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-uncomfortable-subject-jesus-addressed-more-than-anyone-else/
@@arizonajesusperson2095 only those whom God has mercy on will be saved. If you believe in universalism then you must believe the false prophet and the son of lawlessness will be saved. Revelation is clear
This is because Jesus didn't speak of people going to Hell for eternity.
@@4thbrooker revelation 20:10
Thank you for this important conversation.
Hey IC you here too?
Great discussion. Thank you!
I can't imagine living a life with so many unknowns in my mind while "pastoring"
I couldn't either, for years!
It was super scary being a pastor while also having so many questions and doubts, but being too afraid to name them.
But can I tell you?
These past 10 years have been amaaaazing.
Being able to Pastor while ALSO being honest about the complexities of life? And mystery? And doubt? And suffering?
Life. Giving.
@@mrcolbymartin Hello,
I do agree we should ask questions but having faith in the Bible should go hand in hand when asking your questions. It's the documented Word of God that was gifted to us for us to research, explore and He will answer us though it. Yes, you are right, there are different translations and variations, which in the end are similar; however it's quite simple to find the original Greek / Hebrew words and their meanings if you want to verify what the exact meaning of the scriptures are. We have many resources thanks to God.
Now, as I said, it's great to have questions, and sometimes we may not find the answer we want in His Word. But remember, there are things He wanted to keep to Himself. And that's okay. We are mere humans, created by a powerful almighty God that does as He pleases, reveals what He wants. A powerful God that created everything doesn't have to answer every single thing we ask bc He is sovereign. We have been given more than sufficient information on how to walk in the Lord as we need and as followers of Christ Jesus, we must just have faith and walk not by sight, that's what God wants.
A little example / comparison. Imagine you go outside one night and your son at 3 years old asks you "Daddy, what are those little dots in the sky?" As his father, are you going to feel obligated to reply with an entire elaborate 3 hour discourse of what stars and galaxies are and are made up of? No, you aren't, why? As intelligent as the little one may be, his understanding of things isn't at the same level of understanding as yours. So instead of confusing your son with a detailed explanation, you'll answer his question with his level of understanding in mind. "Those little bright lights are stars!" Whatever you tell him, your 3 year old son will find the answer his daddy provided him with to be sufficient.
Now imagine that same concept being applied between us and God. We have questions, God gives us answers through His Word. And maybe yes, we want to know more but He won't tell us more bc it's just too complicated for our human minds to grasp ( No matter how intelligent we may be) His thoughts are Soooooooo much higher than ours. So we, as sons and daughters of our God the father, should know that the information we do need to know was given to us, and it is sufficient in order for us to be able to enter eternal life. Our goal is just that, to be with Him for eternity and to lead other to Christ and truths.
The truth hurts but we are all placed here with different talents, and help eachother, along with God's strength & Holy Sprit, out of our sins and failures. God is faithful to help us.
So ask Him questions yes, but we shouldn't as believers question Him, and His authority. Out of love he has saved us, and out of love we must obey Him 💗
Sorry this was so long! God bless you and your family Pastor Martin. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Guy with the breas does not have the spirit of truth
Beard^
💯
Moreover he has the spirit of error
Facts the word says our spirit and the Holy Spirit testifies of who the children of God are and it testifies to you personally. He doesn’t even divide properly wrong and right and that is the first evidence of the Holy Spirit, fruit develops over time but conviction is immediate and his law is written on your heart, that is what happens when you truly accept him. He denied the holy spirit therefore he cannot understand. He is deceived.
@@siobhansyt right on, completely agree!!!
I know dozens of people like this man. Pray for him. Proverbs 9:10
Thank you Colby!
The progressive christian, Colby, was excellent.
Thank you.