The Best Map In TF2
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- A video dedicated to the greatest map in Team Fortress 2.
Badwater - 0:00
A Brief Introduction - 1:32
How It Functions - 5:15
Professional Opinion - 7:20
Strategy - 8:10
Class Balance - 9:42
Sneaky Spots - 11:15
Truck Gang - 12:46
Where Am I? - 13:36
Other Problems - 15:14
Delfy - 16:07
Final Thoughts - 17:20
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#tf2 #teamfortress2 - Ігри
Update: cp_steel received some fairly significant changes in the Summer 2023 update so I may have to revisit this video...
Blame me
What change?
Let him cook
It's still the same just some QOL changes
@@ano_der_orcaa door
Steel is not THE best map, imo, but it's pretty up there, and definitely an overlooked gem. I think it's a great representation of an "old school" tf2 map.
Also, I didn't actually have much of a role on Mossrock, I helped near the end of it's development in a really minor way. That on was created by Freyja, who also did Suijin and a bunch of others. Her steel-like map Sulfur is worth checking out!
Ah bugger, I hope it didn't come across like I was trying to manipulate your quotes to suggest it was your own favourite map, I gathered it wasn't from the stuff you sent through.
That map that Freyja made does sound interesting though, I will have to give it a look. P.S Thanks again for the input, it was much appreciated!
With me starting out map making and this video getting me interested in steel, I am going to attempt at making a steel like map and fail spectacularly.
What's the best map then?
@@e-kidmanthegamingwizard4903 good luck! A small tip, don't make it TOO complicated. It doesn't have to be as convoluted as steel, if you try to do that as a begginer you will, as you said in your comment, fail spectacularly.
If someone makes a Hydro x Steel map then that would require humanity to advance three generations ahead just to cap like 3 points in the whole map lmao
Steel would be good if it wasn't a nightmare to navigate for the first 200 times.
It barely has any windows. I think windows would help players tell where they are in relation to other parts of the map instead of having solid walls separate them from other familiar areas. No points of reference.
If they fixed that and players had points of reference and clearly visible relations between different areas, it would probably have a much better reputation because the idea itself is cool.
While these are all good points, there's also one thing that people somehow have trouble with:
*Signs. Arrows that literally point you to certain places, stating where they lead to.*
@@schniemand there are signs everywhere
@Blackout Right? I liked hydro
I like Hydro, but I wish it's size was used better. Right now, you only have a small part of the map accessible per match, and matches can end surprisingly quickly. I wish Hydro instead was completely open all the time, with even higher team sizes, and it was about seeing which team could capture and keep the most amount of points until the end of the match. And before anyone argues against that saying that the size would make this overwhelming for anyone who doesn't have a PhD in Hydro, that's kinda the point. It would be so chaotic and gigantic, and I'd love that. Maybe the higher team and map sizes would be too much for tf2 to handle, but I if it worked, it'd be so cool.
The 2nd point is just pure pain, you’re always guaranteed to have 2 or more engies on that building
*turtle*
Bro i fucking wish my engies set up on that fucking roof instead of behind the little wall
I like Steel a lot, but I think I would love it if people knew how to play it well. I can't blame them tho, its incredibly daunting going in the first few times and that non-linearity doesn't make itself obvious so most games will become a 5 point capture from A to E. But man, watching highlander matches on Steel is something else, seeing all the different strats being played out really showcases how versatile and fun this map can get.
The simplest way to play it is to cap all the points in order, I don't see anything difficult about this?
@@salsamancer Yeah its not a bad thing, but it gets pretty stale. I wouldnt say that if Steel didnt let you cap last and win immediately and forces both teams to plan properly. But a lot of Casual players dont know how Steel works ( i cant blame them cuz it took me a long while to figure it out myself ) so all the matches become samey when they could be something unique and fun each time.
I keep looking for highlander servers, but can never find them!
How do you find em?
(I believe highlander is where there can only be nine players that are on each team, which are unable to have two of the same classes, yes?)
Just watch the intro movie lmao
It's also full of chokepoints, which despite what is said in the video, gives Heavy a hard time on this map and all the power to demo and soldier.
Sure once on the point you may stand a change, but you probably won't get there in the first place
Y'know, the first couple of times I played on this map, I was super confused and put off, and every subsequent time, team strategy was basically nonexistent (cuz it's casual), so I never decided to play again
This video's convinced me to give it a few more shots (perhaps in community servers instead where there's an ounce of coordination lol). Badwater's still my favorite tho
Don’t worry, Badwater is my close second too. Give it a try on Uncletopia servers, you tend to get more competent players who actually get how the map functions (at least for the most part).
It good, good map good map is good make it good cus it good 👍
@@Battle_Dude605 take a shot everytime you say good
@@vinutf2 I did and I threw up twice and passed out
@@vinutf2 very good experience tho
I remember my first time I played steel, I accidentally went to point B instead of point A, but I found only one scout there, so instead of going back to point A, I had a duel with him in point B, and this kept on happening until our team capped point A.
In character for scout. Just a little mge to warm up during the game
I played Steel on a community server recently, and our entire team was very coordinated. So was the enemy team. We played a few rounds.
It was some of the best fun I've had in a while, and some of the best fun I've had in TF2 in general.
It's not confusing if you can read signs.
It makes a really fun game if both teams are coordinated, your lucky to have that.
tbf coordination can make tf2 really fun on any map,seriously i once had two coordinating teams on hoodoo,and i didnt even get mad when autobalanced because that match is fun asf
Uncletopia
@@fatzyfatzy8322 I wish I could play on there, but I live somewhere that gives me bad ping on those servers...
its not confusing its just aggressively mid
shout out to liars. gotta be one of my favourite genders 🙏
Amen brotha
🙏
Wot
Confusion, explain joke plz
@@susragejr477 no
I remember first seeing this map in like 2013 or 2014, but I actually loved its concept. It’s probably because of how much I love non-linear stuff in games because I loved the choice it gave you. I didn’t care it was more complex, because it was interesting.
What holds it back for me imo is how small the spaces are late game.
Spy man
Also about being able to get the spy through the shutter door, you can get stuck on reds first spawn on upward if they cap second and uhm if theoretically you can coordinate engineers to hold a level 3 sentry, wait until just before they cap fourth, run out of the shutter door and place your sentry funny things can happen
@Blackout except you can put a tele IN the shutter, which makes it almost impossible for the red team to destroy it (that tele is so broken its banned from third party competitive)
@Blackout oh I see, I just got confused, thanks for the funny tip
Wonderful video about upward and how it’s the most dynamic payload map in the game. Keep up the good work
I liked the part where he talked about orange
I'm upset more maps don't take on the Steel formula. I'll admit, as much as I love steel, some parts of the map near the end are lacking. I would love more maps taking this idea and expanding on it!
It's a hard style to design around so I don't think a lot of people don't want to deal with the difficulty of designing for it.
Sulfur released a few weeks ago and has a similar approach!
I love maps that introduce twists. Steel, Standin, Hydro, Doomsday, are all fun maps that introduce new strategy and thinking due to their creativity. It makes me wish we got more PD maps, or even have arena brought back, due to how fresh it could make things. Even PASSTIME makes you think differently, in a good way.
Steel is by far my favourite map, shame it takes so long to find servers running it.
All personal bias aside though, I think it's clear the actual best map is pl_wutville
Elithris
Elithris
Elithris
gentlemen, synchronize your death watches
13:29
When your teleporters suddenly cost 125 metal:
Steel is designed in the same way that the world map of Dark Souls is. It's confusing at first and you have no idea where the hell you are or going, but then you loop back to somewhere you've been before, and your mind is blown in the process. After playing on it for long enough you begin to appreciate all the different routes you can go and the strategic options they allow.
so, BASICALLY you're saying cp_steel is the Dark Souls of TF2?
@@kelleroid Just the map design. Playing cp_junction as Blue Team is the actual Dark Souls of TF2.
@@walter1383 good to know, that was my first experience playing TF2 ever
ofc i'd seen some videos of it before but Junction was the first time i set foot into the game sometime in 2010 i think
Imagine he just used that image to show us a example of a good/bad map
who informed you
Steel is a very good concept and the layout is great but it's a nightmare to navigate the first 200 times because there are no visible points of reference or even windows to let players know where they are in relation to other familiar areas of the map. In that aspect it's just horrible, rather maze-like.
Combine that with the new type of capture progression (a cool idea by itself) and you get absolutely overwhelmed players who won't think of the map very fondly afterwards.
Read the damn signs and walls and arrows telling you where you are at all times
@@mauroghen9157 Signs don't trivialize 3D space.
@@schniemand not to mention players also get confused when the map they JUST got used to suddenly changes a bit when one of 4 points get capped
It's all fun and games until you're stuck running in loops for the entire game as red.
imagine the video starts and it's 2fort
Interesting how BADwater basin is the BEST map
It is badWATER, not badMAP
@@engineergaming3820 hello engineer gaming i main battle engineer
Good point
Aight who's gonna ruin badwater and upload it to the workshop as pl_actualbadwater
BADwater is BASed
Steel is a map that you can play for 50 hours and then realize "wait this place exists?"
Steel was the map my competitive Highlander team played in our finals match in RGL Newcomer Playoffs, and it was a really tense match against a team we had played and scrimmed with many times during the season, and it was an amazingly fun night when we finally won the playoffs game.
I've been trying to become a Heavy main recently and when I played steel I had an amazing experience, what you stated on this video is exactly what i am starting to feel about this map, it's super fun and I am going to start playing it more often, this video came at the best time of my life ^^
HEAVY MAINS REPRESENT
all 14 of us that is
I bet its not actually Badwater and he used a screenshot of Badwater just to suprise us when he says "It's actually NOT badwater"
LET ME BELIEVE
KNEW IT
This map WAS my first experience in TF2, and somehow as a noobie, I just adored how cheeky this map was, and as a mediocre player to bad player atm, I had fun finding the ability to flank, distract, and just explore this winding map. The final push to E is WHY I got into this map hard, it was exhillerating to attempt the backcap with a montly crew of players. cp_steel is without a doubt my top 5 favorite maps of all time period. I want a 24/7 steel server.
This video is really funny man, thankfully we all know that Junction is the real best map in the game
Personally all of my experience on steel has been negative, long, drawn out games of attack defend where one choke is managed and blue caps A immediately and just can’t push through, then later the final cap takes forever and is very annoying, tbh I like upward the most
YOOOO STEEL BROS KEEP WINNING
Always loved this map to death because of how unique it is and how many routes it offers
i unironically agree, every time i play this map i forge a new core memory
13:12 I love how they all have the classic. CLASSIC CULT!
I’ve been playing tf2 for about a year now, and only just played on steel for the first time last month. The concept of the choices of which point to attack was really cool to me! Plus, had a lot of fun defending E as pyro with air blasts and detonator jumps. Wish more people would play it!
I love non-linear maps and I wish there was a map with as much depth to its design that steel does. One of my fav ideas for a map that I don't think has been made is a vertical version of steel where each floor has a cap and it allows for more of a flowy type of movement. Also truck gang
I think E’s existence as a weakness for red and something they have to at least keep in the back of their mind at all times is an incredible balance decision, if this were a more traditional attack defend map it would just be dustbowl but it’s all on the same map, a map known for its chokey highly defensive advantaged playstyle, but i often find that because E is vulnerable at all times it becomes CRUCIAL for blu to pressure E at nearly all stages of the game to force red to split their defenses to some degree, a sentry on E while blu is pushing into C is a sentry that isn’t helping red defend C whatsoever, but depending on how blu plays it might be entirely necessary to keep something like that at E and stretch red thin
Best thing about Steel for me or how much power it gives to engineer, especially on offense because of the distance from spawn. It gives the ability to the engineer to become 'silent commander', entire round can be shifted because of teleport placement and thus apply pressure on enemy team in specific place
I've always had a soft spot in my heart for cp_steel ever since I first played it. It was complex and hard to wrap my head around, but as I started to learn how the map works, I gradually came to adore it.
It's not my favorite, mainly because so few are willing to put the work in to learn how this amazing map works when they can pick a less complex map like Badwater or Upward.
Steel+classic snipers = perfection
i love this map, i played on a server that kept picking this map for 4 or 5 rounds and it was really fun
Don't forget that strategizing is gonna be a thing for the RED team as well here, coordinating a defense is really fun here
This is the first map I have ever played in TF2 back in 2014. I always loved it.
Players wern't ready for steel, they still arn't.
After watching this video I thought about how similar steel is to breath of the wild. They’re both none linear and you can technically go straight to the end.But taking more time makes the final boss/point much easier.
point b is SO defendable that even spies can't get behind the front lines, point A might as well not even exist, and a huge chunk of the map is very tight, like the caves in dustbowl.
Steel: Almost over the moment it starts
Dustbowl, Badwater: Extremely based on stalling and pushing (its never fun)
Everything else: *Oh god please no, how did they get into this game*
Last point Upward and Badwater is always hell the entire map is so good with so much verticality and good flank spots but in last all you get is Demos and Engis
You don't like playing TF2? XD
@@auraguard0212 nah bro im an overwatch stan that hates the game
dustbowl emds in 1 minute some times lol
which is why the pushing part is stated in the 2 maps: The offensive team in which the player is not part of *is almost always competitive GODS* that can just push the payload in under a minute
Meanwhile we almost lost due to the time limit because why not
Where is Kong king
Your my fav UA-camr pls upload soon
Glad you made a video on this map because while I don't play it much, I do find it to be one of the most interesting ones in the game. Love that Point E is always open and could potentially win the game after capping the first point, really unique for a CP/Attack/Defend map
this gives me the idea for a massive ctf map where you have to cap 3 or 5 separate intels, and it could also have a pd version.
I really like Steel, but it feels too easy for the Blu team in my opinion. The basic strategy is to just do 2 pushes (one big and one small, one goes to E) and generally at least one will succeed (which either results in Blu winning, or Blu gaining an advantage + extra time). If Red is evenly spilt, almost all of Blu should stick together so that half of Red has to deal with all of Blu. If Red isn’t evenly split, the bigger push should be aimed at the least guarded point; even if a huge push on E at the start fails, the chaos will result in an easy A and B cap when E is super close to being capped. Blu controls the pace of the fight, and in a non-competitive setting, it can be difficult for Red to react fast enough (although uncoordinated Blu teams can get stuck on C or B). C is the most interesting point to me because it stops the cap of D, and main routes to C and E are close together, making it easier for Red to guard both (even then, there’s the less-used A-D / A-E route). I wouldn’t say it’s completely unfair, and it is still fun, but the majority of the time I see Blu win both times in a match.
2fort better
Valve: *haha let’s add a cool different way to play on this map*
elmaxo: _this is the best thing I have seen in my entire life._
I think a worthy follow up video would be how you'd "fix" Steel to make it more less confusing and more accessible.
I can absolutely understand your points about this map, but I don't agree with you. Steel is undoubtedly the most dynamic map TF2 has to offer, with so many moving parts. But this isn't necessarily a good thing, yes it allows for immense big brain strategy but if you try to analyse what makes a map good you shouldn't just consider the highest level of play.
I would argue that fun is the most important factor, how fun the map is to play for all players. So first off let's look at the majority of TF2's players, casual players. Steel is incredibly confusing to people who aren't willing to learn it, often making you get lost, leading you to point E without even knowing what the fuck you're doing, it's cramped and choky around the last point to the point of it just being irritating and to most people, this isn't fun. Compare that to something like Upward or Badwater, even a new player can pretty easily grasp that the cart goes along the track and you can just follow it to the front lines. Which map do you think most people have more fun on? The simpler (but still incredible) map that you can grasp and learn easily which still has things like flanks for Scouts and Spies, still has sightlines for Sniper, chokes for Demoman, huge trimp/sticky/rocket jump spots for Demomen/knights and Soldier. Still has ambush spots for Pyro etc, or the map which has these things in more defined areas (this is the area that's good for demo, this spot is good for pyro etc) which is a lot harder to learn and kinda necessitates you think a lot harder.
Now obviously there are the higher level players we need to consider too, the ones who do want to learn Steel and do want to employ many of the big brain strategies you talked about. Is something like Upward or Dustbowl bad for them? Do they get bored of them? No, of course not. Upward and Dustbowl are still extremely enjoyable and can still employ those big brain strats to a lesser extent. Obviously Payload and Attack/Defend are pretty different game modes with different strategies, but there is still fun and competitive matches to be had there.
So it begs the question, what is the better map? One which is frustrating for newer players, overly complex and requires you to organize pushes with your team (aka something near impossible to do effectively in a pub, the most common type of play) and has massive strategy potential, or one which is simple to grasp and still complex to master (but not to anywhere near the same extreme), can be enjoyed in both pub and competitive scenes, by new and old players for a good time. I may be a not very good chill player (never even touched comp, little over 1K hours over many years), but when you consider that one map is a lot easier to have fun on, easier to learn, still has a learning curve for comp players (to a lesser extent) and more enjoyable for most players; and the other map takes a lot of time to learn, requires a pretty big brain you need to engage and for most players is too confusing to be enjoyable, I'll easily say Upward or Dustbowl is better.
(Shout out to Steel for not letting Red have the last point literally right outside their spawn, that's a massive issue I have with most attack/defend and it's always a relief when there aren't like 4 engineers with endless metal on last, that's easily the worst part of most maps and I'm thankful af that Steel doesn't have it. Also I think I swapped from talking about Upward and Dustbowl to just one of them at times? So uhh pretend I'm saying the best map is whichever one your favourite is idc. Sorry for the massive essay in the comments but this video was really well made and I wanted to share my thoughts)
7:22 "responsible for mossrock"
Is this some kind of achievement that he got in his life? He made a completely trash map
Fr mossrock is so unbalanaced. There's so many wrong things on this map: the train on last, the sightline snipers get from being next to the spawn to one of the only chokes you can push last from, the fact that red team spawns legit on the last point making it so easier for them to defend, the fact that sniper is too good on this map
So good actually if you want to push A and their sniper is good, you cannot contest the flank, since it's opened, and have to push inside where there's 1 big choke
The fact that on the first point's ramp there's a black hole that makes you lag in place since this map has been released, yes idk how to call that but it's a pretty stupid bug
I could go on and on. So telling that this guy is a "good mapper" because he made MOSSROCK is wrong. What about the other maps he made, Im sure that if you say he's good he must have released other maps that (I hope) are better than mossrock
Srly I hate this guy's work for making this trash of a map.
So don't just tell that he's the mossrock guy that shit doesn't make him a good mapper AT ALL
seethe
l m a o
1. Mossrock is a lot of fun
2. Stay mad
3. I didn't actually make it, I only helped a tiny bit at the end of development
4. lol
We call that a "noob down"
while steel does require strategy, as a comp player I feel once a meta is discovered you can't really change anything. Flank holds A combo sets up B. When B is capped go soft hold C with combo. And then after C is gone you just have combo on D and everyone else on E. Which sound like a lot but once you figure out your job its veryits very it's very simple
as a fellow comp player this makes no sense, what if the enemy pushes through lobby to cap e? what if they do literally anything but go b? idk what comp you're playing but clearly there's no innovation going on there
@@SpeakersVolumeUp I mean they can push through lobby for e but it's unlikely and accounted for, you rotate your flank. I'm just trying to say that steel isn't as complex as it is proposed to be in the video. Also I play rgl in main
10:50
Yes, I totally understand what that comment about Medic is supposed to mean. Genius.
Thank you youtube for removing the dislike feature so I had to sit through 15 minutes of a video essay to determine that it was a waste of time.
Do agree that there’s a high potential for strategy and being an outlier on how it plays, but in practice games end up being prone to pubstomping, with A’s difficult defence leading to an early B cap and E right afterwards with red not really being able to deal with what is essentialy blue spawn being 5 seconds away from the main cap, and even in balanced teams it takes too damn long, to a point where it takes half an hour to finish off and teams end up being 4-6 people each from disconnects. Do agree that more people shouldn’t be discouraged from the layout, and it is a good map for stupid baby strategies that would get you instagibbed on any other map. Still better than turbine for comp though.
That's a shame, had a 98% like ratio anyway so it still would have wasted your time.
Lol bad vid lol 😂
Oh you are about to experience hell on earth!
Lol why is this pinned
@@crzyjerzy3710 Pin of shame.
@@boneguy4838 bruh
bAdwarter
Good video. I always thought I liked steel and how it can play out, but never knew how to put it into words. Hopefully we see more people playing it now!
NGL, Badwater is my go-to map when I play TF2. It’s plenty spacious, there are several chock points you can either take advantage of or out maneuver and it’s a payload map so it makes things more exciting whether you are playing offense or defense.
I know the layout well from playing engie vs medic zombie survival on that map but it’s kinda hard for me to get into cus of its lack in free space and it mostly consists of narrow hallways that make some classes stronger than others
i remember playing highlander in steel/iron back in the day, and Steel being both exciting and daunting to play on. Many fond memories of walking around that map for hours planning routes and learning sentry and sticky spots, etc
I just want to say that i really enjoy dustbow - it force you to actual teamwork, but stell is also great for that
Good vid.
Thanks for reminding me about that tele exploit, will have to fix that in the next refresh version.
I hate steel, since it requires (as you said) coordination. Wich you don't usually get in a pub. Also, there is ALWAYS someone trying to back cap. So it's defend E all game or lose because the rest of your team doesn't understand it. Another point is that the back cap option gives blue a big advantage, red has to answer with at least two people on E to make sure they succeed, otherwise the game is lost. Meaning you'll most likely fight outnumbered on the other caps as red.
I imagine in comp steel must be a very diverse and fun map to play. In the uncoordinated, unbalanced scene of casual however, this map quickly becomes hell.
Cascade is my favourite right now. i just love the movement possibilities with the winger
Steel has been my favorite map for years and this video perfectly puts my feelings and thoughts on the map into words. I'll definitely be sharing this video whenever a friend of mine asks why Steel of all maps is my favorite.
Damn this is so high quality,ive stopped playing tf2 already but i actually still watched the video. Keep it up!
very well made video! earned a sub
thanks boss
nice! this map does rule once you play it a couple times to figure it out. also nice music in the background, very chill
That loose cannon dodge at 1:18 is insane
Love this map too...one of the first I ever played, so it was a baptism by fire in my nooby days...the other maps seemed a bit basic after steel!
As others point out, a real joy if both teams kinda know the options of how to play it, as a team...nice vid👍😍
Bro. Elmaxo. This video is REALLY GOOD!!
I've always liked steel because I found it fun to explore as a new player. I'm glad to see other people talking about it.
13:32 Holy S, what a great transision.
I played this map once, and now I remove every nonstandard attack defend map when I queue
13:46 Hydro: allow me to introduce myself
So many good memories on steel. Remember coming home from hs just to grind out some games from it.
ive always hated steel because its literally a maze to get to a from red and there's always that one scout that caps last when you have 5 players on your team that can't defend 2 fronts at once. and i suck at tf2 anyways
Playing Highlander really opened my eyes to Steel. I remember my first time playing and hearing we’d be playing Steel and was so just confused as to why. After the map review, I had an understanding for how the map worked and fell in love with the map after our first scrim on it.
I’ve never actually played this map before, so I can’t really draw conclusions on this video’s validity beyond saying the concept of the map is intriguing.
Steel makes me feel like a rat in a maze, it's the only map in the game to cause me actual emotional distress.
Gotta love hearing Pokemon Mystery Dungeon music as background tracks. Very glad RT brought it back! :)
Are you familiar with cp_standin? It's the 5cp map with just three points that can be capped in any order. It shares a lot of the same strategic potential of cp_Steel, and is probably one of my top 5 favourite maps in the game.
So unique and underrated, I wish they added more maps like it.
I gotta say I love this map and especially the other old school maps, but one of my favorite parts of tf2 is that there are so many different maps to enjoy!
Finally, it’s so good to see more Steel love in the community
This is a really weird version of dustbowl...
9:44 hey, it's Bonk Drinker!
I think Steel was actually one of, if not the, first maps I played in TF2 outside of the tutorial and bot matches. I was confused for a bit, and did the classic "new player building on last" as engie, but I still look very fondly on Steel.
steel was definitely super confusing to me the first few times i played it, but after watching some highlander matches of it i understood
I can vouvh for what you said about getting lost. use to hate it but once I got it down it started being a lot of fun
In my experience, steel always ends with blue victory. Heavily one sided.
Either the effects of points A-D need to be changed, or they need to reduce the time limit before a red victory, until the map is balanced.
I remember this one from the time I started playing TF2. I probably sucked reeeeal hard, but all I can recall is that the final capture point and the capture mechanics blew my mind anyways.
I love it every time you include something from Pokemon: Mystery Dungeon
plz never stop I subscribe for the nostalgia
I played this map once and wanted to learn it right away I love it
Just played my first few steel match today before this video. Loved it, bit confusing, but loved the design still
Upland has a similar structure to steel, where E is cappable all the time, but it lowers down depending on which point is capped. I haven’t been able to play it yet because I don’t think any community servers run it
Nothing feels better than that elusive last point coordinated push on a casual server
I just got hales own pain train this day. Epic.