+xzenitramx666 Why is Batman V Superman bad? It all comes down to the sloppy writing and direction. There are SOOOO many moments in the film that make no sense and are just flat out stupid that it's hard to ignore its shortcomings
+xzenitramx666 My feed is filled with those video reviews. If there are good reviews of this film, send me a link. I'm not being facetious. This is a serious request. I am a huuuuge DC fan, and I have no good reviews on my feed. Grace Randolph doesn't count; hers was mixed.
While I have enjoyed all the movies form both DC and Marvel, I can't help feel sorry for DC, they make DAMN GOOD animated movies that to me are way better then their live action movies, but sadly so many people see any thing animated as "kids stuff" that they get pushed to the sides.
I find the DC films repugnant, disrespect the characters, put them into no win situations, and are dystopic and dark. Why does hollywood think people are going to line up and hand over their money to see a series of unpleasant films. Also DC films are not good films to begin with. But I could over look that if they weren't so unpleasant. Same thing happened with the last jedi. They actively destroy luke which is enough to make me hate the movie but *also* it's an objectively bad film that needs a good editor to hack away at it and restructure it just to get it to "bearable". The objectively bad stuff I could probably overlook if the film wasn't crapping down my throat. I do not trust critics who get early and free access to these movies. They can be cut off from early and free access so they are inherently biased in favor of the movie. If nothing else, disney can cut off access to critics they don't like until all the early reviewers are just naturally people who like what Disney is putting out. Perhaps Warner hasn't done as good a job or doesn't spend as much money on marketing. One thing I *do* *not* think is that critics are given actual cash. That would be a huge scandal waiting to break and be really dumb on the studios parts.
Oh man i knew it wouldn't be good but I went anyway hoping I was wrong. wow I had no idea they could make it that bad. They killed the JLA movie im not even going. I mean come on is the flash a serial killer now? Ted Bundy as superman? what the hell?
What's funny is how some DC fanboys are now forcing themselves to not like Captain America: Civil War as some kind of bizarre payback for all the people who said they hated BvS.
+C.B Black You are probably right WB/DC need to just give up on the movies they will NEVER do a good job I mean never . Batman v Superman had more hype then the second coming of Jesus and we all saw how horrible that movie was. On the other hand the DC tv shows are fantastic they need to focus on those in my opinion.
wildevil Were you addressing me? If so, sorry to disappoint you, but I have no particular affection for either of them. I've never read a comic in my life, even as a kid. Until a few months ago I couldn't even tell you which character belonged to which comic, and even now I only know a few. I'm just an impartial observer and a fan of films. But I will admit to being fascinated by fandoms especially the DC fans right now because they're so reactionary. And it amuses me to see punters arguing over these big businesses.
C.B Black I suppose both sides are extremely sensitive to their respective comics, which is silly since they are fans of the same genre and the rivalry is as unnecessary as it is childish. I often go around defending DC, but I wouldn't have to if their weren't so many self righteous Marvel fans bashing them. Not that I dislike Marvel either, cause I do read their comics, and watch their films, but the fans march in here like they know everything, and of course I enjoy pointing out that they dont. You would probably be a Reed Richards fan of the Fantastic Four if you ever got into it, or maybe Doctor Manhattan of the Watchmen,...the literature, not so much the films. Men of science, as I assume you are into that.
I used to love Marvel and DC equally for what they were, but DC made so many bad decisions that their comics universe was no longer even recognizable as what made it great in the first place. They've only just recently tried making up for their mistakes so I guess we'll have to wait and see if they can turn it around. Admittedly, Marvel has made a few odd decisions in recent years but nothing near as baffling or ridiculous as what DC did.
There is people who clearly have an agenda against DC: Dan Didio, Jim Lee, Eddie Berganza, Bob Harras, and the Warner board of directors who have no clue at all of how to manage their licenses. And it saddens me because I love DC just as much as Marvel; none is better, they are just different in their take on superheroes.
+Hub Pie, In my personal experience, it just happens with casual fans who have an emotional investment in very popular and overrated comics from more 20 years, like The Death of Superman or Maximum Carnage, who haven't read anything since and live under the illusion the comic book industry is like this Coca-Cola/Pepsi Civil War dichotomy when, in reality, it's pretty much the same creative people jumping from company to company trying to keep the tradition alive and make ends meet.
+Midnight's Edge The one good thing that did happen after BvS disappointed was that it knocked the DC side out of play. Unfortunately, I think the real "fan war" now is between X-Men/Deadpool fans and MCU fans.
I agree. If Disney was caught bribing critics, it would damage not only the Marvel brand, but also the Disney and Star Wars brands. I don't see Disney risk loosing a billion dollars just to win a dime.
One time a company got damaged and there were problems with a fake critic named David Manning. Both companies in theory have the power so is not like Disney is the only ones....Warner could do it if they wanted. But on the long run, nobody wants a pirric victory
+lsebastian9086 That David Manning debacle was SONY's doing; they created that fake critic to give all their movies positive reviews regardless of their quality.
Your analysis from 8:00 onward was the most spot-on in this whole discussion. That's the thing with these giant corporations: They'd rather everyone carve out their own crime block and live in coexistence than engage in all-out war. A crude analogy, but it fits well enough.
They need to stop taking a page from Fox in terms of relying on one director & just take more notes from Marvel Studios. That and quit shoving the New 52 into everything
+Danny Malzahn +Danny Malzahn They don't need the same tone as Marvel, but they do need to build their characters first. The reason the MCU does work is that most of the Avengers were introduced in separate solo films first. This meant the audience was already invested in the character. BvS suffered for being rushed and overstuffed.
Fantastic analysis, Andre. The idea of bias is definitely something worth to be considered and I do agree with your conclusion there. As for Bribery, you are spot on! As an addendum to that point, assuming Disney could cover their tracks and bribe the hundreds of critics, they'd have to bank on (aside from the information leaking naturally) not ONE of them to snitch. The whistleblowing can obviously be due to a moral stance or self-gain. Specifically, publicity and notoriety. And on that notion, the risk heavily outweighs any sense of reward. So yeah, the tin hat people who purport this really don't have a clue and for the most part are incredibly bitter(or salty. I dislike that word by the way when describing dislike.) about BVS not doing well. And Marvel and DC do depend on one another. While they want to compete, they know for a fact that in the long run, it is in BOTH their best interests to produce good CBM related material. Other wise, people will get bored and they will be in trouble as you eloquently stated. And it is because of this byproduct that we as fans win. This being all the great content we're getting/we'll be getting.
You're thoughts on the importance of the DCEU in the larger role of the superhero genre was spot on. The biggest threat facing the genre is over saturation and mediocry. We're getting dozens of superhero movies over the next 4 years and in the time, the general audience will grow apathetic towards the films and stop going. And what will add to the apathy is the quality of films. It doesn't matter if your Disney, Fox, Sony or Warner, everyone has a role to play to keep this genre going strong.
+samzilla567 My dad was already getting tired of superhero movies, but I think Guardians of the Galaxy and the Infinity War storyline has brought back his interest in MARVEL. Yeah, people will get tired of the same thing if they keep getting it over and over again. Why do you think animation fans complain that all cartoons on Cartoon Network are comedies and not enough action cartoons; it's because while there are a couple of gems like Adventure Time and Steven Universe that have restored CN's reputation, CN keeps trying to capitalize on those formulas set by Adventure Time and just make everything a comedy for kids, hence you get shows like Teen Titans Go. But to bring up a better example, look at how Universal is trying to reboot the MONSTERS CINEMATIC UNIVERSE as a MARVEL-esque action/superhero-y series instead of an actual horror series.
Yep, Disney is risking its ENTIRE reputation and history bribing critics to say they hate an awful to mediocre film because that will drive up ticket sales for Civil War, because Marvel films have been struggling to find an audience and profitability for the past decade... (sarcasm)
+90 Lancaster The same could be said about WB, DC (who are in the midst of a little scandal involving keeping employed an editor with a history of sexual harrassment), Fox and the other studios and pretty much any large corporation. The reputation Disney is trying to protect is the one that would open it up to --- the video mentions this --- a flood of litigation from people who think their product (ex. BvS) was sabotaged and thus failed to meet it's expected boxoffice mark. If Disney/Marvel were trying to sabotage DC films then why hasn't WB/DC gone on record to accuse them of such a thing. Fanboys and the DC tinfoil hatters don't have anything to lose when DC films fails. WB/DC have millions and, maybe, billions to lose if their films don't meet expectations. They would sue, litigate and outright tear down Disney/Marvel is critic-bribing and sabotage campaign had any truth behind it. The fact they haven't done so is loud enough a confirmation that even WB/DC don't believe what Grace has been proselytizing to anyone on social media that the deck is stacked against BvS and DC. If the deck is stacked it has less to do with Disney/Marvel and more the fact that DC, outside Nolan, hasn't earned the goodwill and trust of the general public. I don't mean DC fans. I'm talking about the general audience who couldn't care less if a film was Marvel or DC. They just want to watch a film to entertain them and the verdict on BvS from that audience has been that it failed to do so. I think the vast majority of DC fans don't subscribe to the conspiracy and bribing theorist espoused by Grace Randolph and those who follow her every word slavishly. It's those very small, fringe, albeit vocal section of the DC fandom who have become so ludicrous in their accusations that they've become the comic fandom's version of the 9/11 Truthers.
+WiseKing My rebuttal to these conspiracy theories is that WB is a pretty big company themselves and could certainly pay off critics to trash other movies and praise their own if they were so inclined. The fact that they clearly didn't pay off critics when it came to BvS, and certainly haven't when it comes to Civil War makes me believe that, in this case, the system works.
Wise King | #Frozen already proved that somehow Disney were treated unfairly by many by given too much praises for, plus the constant #haunting of #LetItGo everywhere. Many older #Disney supporters actually decided that they wouldn't support that era Disney. Of course, it is actually a fight by many different factions inside and outside Disney.
I'm not a critic. And as someone born and raised behind the Iron Curtain, I did not have access to Western comic book movies. When I was in my teens during the 90s, I watched the 60s Batman show, the live-action Superboy show and later Lois & Clark. And I enjoyed them for what they were. I watched all four Batman movies with mild interest. I never really watched the Spider-Man and X-Men animated show (I was a Turtles guy) To this day I am an avid fan of Smallville even though I can see all the flaws the show had. So while I enjoy comic book movies, in the end I'm still an outsider who values these movies based on their entertainment value and not their affiliation. I loved the first two X-Men movies, didn't care for the third. The same is true for Tobey's Spider-Man and The Dark Knight trilogy (TDKR was a lousy ending to its predecessors). I even like Superman Returns even though I seem to be the only one. So besides Hulk (I did watch Lou Ferrigno's show, too in the 90s) none of the Avengers meant anything to me until they cam alive on the screen. I really like both Norton and Ruffalo as Mr. Green. I really liked Thor and the mythology behind. Iron Man was OK but outside the Avengers (and probably Civil War which I haven't seen yet) he's not amongst my favourite. Along came MoS and I was hoping. The trailer was awesome, Costner (which I personally liked even in Robin Hood and Waterworld) was Jonathan Kent and Maximus Decimus Meridius was Jor-El. What could possibly go wrong? Well, pretty much everything. Unlike Lois & Clark and Smallville, this Superman didn't really have a story to tell. It was just mindless bashing and destroying Krypton, Smallville and Metropolis for what felt like an eternity. Every Kryptonian except for the House of El carried the idiot ball as long as the planet was still around, just so the planet could explode. The council even admitted that they made the planet's core unstable but evacuating the planet? That's just ludicrous. Even Zod's taking-over-the-council-plan was more concerned with the bloodlines than actually saving the race in the immediate future. And if the Kryptonians didn't take Lois aboard their vessel for no apparant reason, their plan might have worked in the end. Did BvS did do better? No. These characters have no comprehensible to bash on each other. All they accuse each other of they are guilty of doing themselves. And Lex the joking Riddler is afraid of what one Kryptonian might do and that's why he's creating an undefeatable Kryptomonster? Yeah right. That's why I like the MCU and dislike the DCEU so far. One company's movies work for me, the other one's don't.
The problem with the theory is that for such an undertaking to occur, thousands upon thousands of not just movie critics and internet reviewers would have to have been paid to bash Dawn of Justice. While we all joke about how Disney has limitless money, even they couldn't do that, even if they wanted to. Not to mention, there would have been a leaks about this by now from the less professional reviewers online they bought off.
Fatigue wont happen. Unlike DC, Marvel makes all their movies different and fresh enough from each other enough so, we dont really notice similarities between each other. If superheroe genre was a pokemon type, it would be Dragon. It is the most powerful because of its flexibility. A superheroe movie can be: A spy thriller (Winter Soldier) A war historical movie (First avenger) A space opera (Guardians of the Galaxy) A heist movie (Antman) A new take of matrix/inception with reality bending (Doctor Strange) A technology movie (Iron Man) Or a plain superhero team up movie (Avengers) And many many more possibilities like A highschool drama (Homecoming) Political thriller (Black panther) An army movie (Captain Marvel) An epic (Ragnarok)
Outstanding words there, Andre! I don't think anybody at UA-cam have said this better than you! When I first heard of this from Collider, I just laughed it out. I just thought that came from some random idiotic fan. But when I saw those videos from CBC and John Campea, I was shocked. I couldn't that kind of stupidity has escalated that far. I knew Grace had a grudge against Marvel, but wow! I'm tempted to say more, but this %&*# woman got tons of fans who are as unscrewed as her. Thanks!
Bias against DC?! It wouldn't be because Marvel is responsive to their fans and faithful to the source material... and oh yeah MAKE FUN MOVIES! DC has become increasingly "dark and gritty" driving away both causal and diehard fans. DC put out movies where Batman has guns and Superman kills people (A LOT of people) for crying out loud. I heard someone use the word "joyless" to describe DC movies, and I think that would be the most appropriate word to describe most of the recent DC movies. Just look at the different roll outs of Batman v. Superman and Civil War. BvS: Social media blackouts and embargo on critics' reviews based on the early screenings, what's his name playing Superman, who is so bland I can never remember his name, sneaking around Times Square taking pictures of himself wearing a Superman shirt. AND EVEN THEN no one recognizes him in public. Oh yeah, not to mention well sourced article after well sourced article about how the studio is in FULL PANIC lowering their expectations for BvS again and again. Oh further panicking and dropping millions on Suicide Squad reshoots. Civil War: Genuinely positive reviews on social media without fear of repercussions for negative, cast visiting kids in hospitals etc. Sure there's a bias, just like a race between a F1 formula car vs. a city bus is biased. The formula car is purpose built to be fun, on the cutting edge of tech, quick on its feet, responsive to change, takes risks. The bus, slow, lumbering, follows the same easy to predict route every time, tries to please everyone, but nobody on that ride is happy.
+boredcollegestudent Joyless is a perfect description. For the love of all things holy, at least throw some color in the film. Everything was so muted dark. Also, does every fight scene have to be at night during a rain storm?
+pk13910 Color for starters, heroes and villains that would act within their character, anyone but Snyder directing, not combining three different comic stories into one overly bloated movie. Those four easy changes could make millions of dollars difference for WB/DC.
+boredcollegestudent I don't remember Henry Cavill (the guy playing Supes) doing that in Times Square. That's depressing as hell when nobody recognizes the guy playing fucking Superman, but know the guy who played STAR LORD from Guardians of the Galaxy!
+boredcollegestudent the grimdark tone could work , but then again this movie was a victim of the panic of wb, they wanted so badly to compete with marvel on what marvel did on 5 movies with only 2 so they rush everything, having the movie be and ad of all of these films that will come out in the future instead of telling a good story and in hands of a director that's all style, no substance. It is beyond me how they did not noticed that was a trainwreck in the making
"Gritty", "Edgy", "Angst Ridden" is cheesy and went out of fashion in the mid-90's, as the makers of the Crow sequels discovered all too late. Now DC could take a hint and figure out that we aren't interested in a stable of super "heroes" who all have the same brooding personality. Boring.
+chris wyble The problem, I think, isn't necessarily being "gritty", but rather being artificially "gritty". Superman didn't need to be gritty, but they did it anyway just to bank on the popularity of The Dark Knight. Grittiness works in a story that is realistic and explores certain ideas and themes that are dark; people like Zack Snyder and Josh Trank didn't realize that and just went "Dark and Gritty" for the sake of "Dark and Gritty" in their respective films.
Batman v Superman got terrible reviews the night of its premier, from amateur critics with less than a hundred viewers who just saw it in a local cinema, as well as from professionals. That would have to be some kind of insanely fine-grain bribing...
Yea people are biased but there is a difference from being biased and knowing a good film. For example, I have soft spot for Spider-Man I love those movies as a fan,but as a person who knows a good movie they suck. Civil war is as of right now my favorite comic book movie of all time that's how much I liked it. I really want to watch it again,because I am sure i am going to love it even more the second time I see it. Bvs was bad that's it there is nothing that can convince me other wise...
I'm sure no one has thought about the fact that there are professional critics out there who know about story structure and character development, or are simply familiar with good films and are more adept at communicating the flaws in a badly made film. I mean, it's not like there are no professional writers out there who charge for services such as script doctoring, right?
Critic analysis movies that tell a cohesive story, sensible plot points, strong acting and a overall theme. Every movie has the potential to be a good movie or a bad movie. BVS falls in the lines of being a good or a bad movie. Most critics consider this to be a bad movie based on the points I made earlier. There is no hate against dc. The trailers set the tone so critics weren't looking for a marvel experience. There are hundreds of movies that receive low critic scores does it mean a hatred agenda. Nope! The reality is that many fans wanted BVS to be well received like a blockbuster movie. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the fans and critics don't see it that way. It's not hate it's subjective opinion where everyone is entitled to it.
You are wrong Midnights Edge. Disney gives me a million dollars a view for my review of Captain America Civil War which compared it favorably to Batman v Superman. There is no other reason I would trash Batman v Superman. Its brilliant writing and character moments like deciding not to kill someone because you find out your rivals mother has the same very common first name. Who could not think that is brilliant writing unless we get our bribes
Fair comments. Here in the UK, CAP Civil War came out 4 days ago and I know people who he'd off seeing it to hear feedback from friends after seeing BVS during opening weekend. I'm personally going back to see it this weekend and I know many people who are also so it'll be interesting to see what the box office drop-off is. I doubt it will be 70%(?) like BvS.
So basically, Marvel took all the risks...and WON! DC was too scared to do it first. So now that Marvel is raking in all the cash, DC tries to quickly copy them.....and FAILED! The moral of the story is, the name of your product is not more important than the quality of your product.
This was the best video on what Grace Randolph said. It's not biased,it's expectation...that's what Marvel has,and what DC doesn't. I'm so glad you cleared that up!
+Anthony “YHWH” Lawrence, I wonder if Grace Randolph is biased and paranoid against Marvel for firing her from the Watcher and never letting her write another series after the one she did which sucked in the script department.
+Spike Grace is a good comic books writer. No matter what dumb conspiracy theories she puts out, you can't take away the fact she's a damn good writer.
Marcus Luera, if you like her work, that's cool, but I wouldn't consider her a good comic book writer at all. That's my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
How the hell do you guys only have 12 700 subs?!!! You videos are top notch and you deserve far more viewers. But I am sure they will come, keep up the good work guys. I personally can't wait for your videos to get released.
If anything Marvel would pay critics to talk up DC movies because they are in the same genre they need each other (especially DC) to do good so people won't be hesitant to see the next Superhero movie
Agreed, they want each other to succeed so they don't get a monopoly on comic book movies, on that note I would flip my shit if they hired the Russos to do lantern corps.
WTF your joking right? DCEU movies so far from Snyder are weak and plot holled with great outfits and special effects is all that's going for them... this is coming from a die hard DC fan...Snyder doesn't get and will never get characters like Superman, Lex. Doomsday etc and that's also why they are terrible DC movies. We need a DC Rebirth already... sadly.
The reason they got Zack Snyder is because after Green Lantern failed the Warner president believed it was because the Green Lantern movie wasn't "dark and edgy" enough, even though the real problem was that it didn't do a good job at introducing audiences to the character.
+Brandon Dozier wut? when will they get we are sick of dark n edgy. i just want character that i will remember in two three years, not blackboards and hollow shells.
I think you're over simplifying it all a bit. I think most people would agree that Batman v Superman is an average film, not great but not horrible either. However, if you look at the critics they gave it a universal thrashing along the lines of the Transformers films, or even last year's Fantastic Four. Yet, if you look at what most would consider to be average Marvel films like Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 2, and Iron Man 3, the critics gave them much more leeway despite their shortcomings, even praising Iron Man 3. It's probably true that that's more due to bias towards Marvel films, and them expecting them to be good so any flaws are dismissed in order to maintain that illusion. However, at some stage it is a failing on the critics professionalism to thrash one film for having flaws, yet praising other films despite their flaws. That isn't even to say that a lot of critics savaged Batman v Superman for not being as fun and entertaining as a Marvel film, which is a ludicrous thing to say as they are supposed to objectively assess a film's strengths and weaknesses not hold it to a format of a different movie.
I agree with all points made here. The idea of bribing is ridiculous. You mentioned about the fear of comic book film fatigue; I think that is a big reason behind the problems with the BvS film. Fear of the comic book bubble bursting before DC has time to build their DCU leads them to fast-track in one film what marvel built over many movies.
I admit..if the claims were against an indie Studio i could really believe in those theories...but Warner is not SLouch either and they theorically could have the sources to do the sabotage...but if both loose then nothing good happens.
The people I know (not critics) who love both and who have seen movies from both companies can see the rush that DC has made to play catch up with Marvel. It shows in their films. It has nothing to do with someone favoring Marvel. Whether or not certain people feel better towards Marvel than DC, the bottom line is the DC movies that have been out recently have been rushed, muddled, and not as coherent a movie as it could be. The disappointment that people feel can't be blamed on Marvel or the quality of their movies. Also an allegation that critics have been paid to give good ratings doesn't account for the box office that these properties make -- unless the studio is going to go as far as people only believe a movie is good because a critic tells them it is.
+Holli B. the sad thing is, the "buy" argument is being usewd with people who liked the movie, defended it, and praised it, but liked Cap3 more. so it makes no sense to say they were bought because they defended it, and gave good reviews!
I think the comic book movie fatigue will happen regardless of the quality of the movies produced. I always recall what Simon Pegg said about how this obsession with Comic book movies is actually infantilizing and dumbing down the industry and our culture in general - and I completely agree. I just hope that what happens with the movie industry will not mirror what happened with the video game industry in 1983.
+dvest_slack_rs That stupid bitch, seriously. Every time I've watched one of her videos I regret adding to her viewcount. She's an absolute moron. Can't believe so many nerds watch her channel. Not a real critic, just a fangirl trying to get as many views as possible
She's an idiot. It's the same woman who had absolutely no problems with the ghostbusters trailer and said it was going to look fun. And now started stirring shit up about Disney bribing critics because God forbid her opinion is wrong. She's no pro at what she does. Even in her regular reviews that I've stumbled before she has a rather amateurish way to express herself and get her point across. There's a lot of repetition in her sentences and she finds herself making the exact same points more than once. Clearly she's not a film bluff but some chick who decided to pick up a camera and make reviews for the lols.
+Fractorification Apparently she is a comic book writer...but I don't give a shit.?She's crap at what she does on UA-cam. You're right, she is amateurish. Somehow has 1/2 million subscribers
Vince McMahon and the entirety of the WWE needed to hear what was said at approx 7:58 or so. They were the top dog, but they became the only game in town after the McMahons bought out WCW and ECW
Marvel has nothing to worry about. It's the MGMT behind WB/DCEU that has to go. They chose to shoehorn everything possible into BvS that it backfired. From the Frank Miller influences to the premature death of Superman BvS was just a clusterf*ck from the idea phase. Instead of something Avengers'esque, DC gave us something convoluted and uninspiring with a huge helping of lack of levity. Of course both universes should work well, but don't hate Marvel for actually taking the time to flesh out their characters before they got to the big event, which DC should damn well have done.
Good video. I think there may be an expectation but I don't think that is a matter of bias. Bias suggests prejudice. Then you have people like Grace Randolph who accused fellow critic John Campea of being paid off by Disney/Marvel. Despite the fact John Campea said he saw BvS 4 times and is one of the few who liked it. I actually liked Man of Steel but was disappointed by BvS. I love both Marvel and DC properties. I want them both to do well.
Thank you. You have nailed that on the money & restored a great deal of my faith in humanity. Some of my favorite Podcast personalities let me down by proliferating a lot of these inane allegations. I was starting to think I was the only person staring at a naked emperor.
Midnight's Edge...I consider you the Marvel of the You Tube channel community. Another great video and so accurate. The DC fanboys think that when we criticize BvS and Zack Snyder that we are hating on DC. What they don't realize is people like myself love both Marvel and DC. It's like you said, Marvel has it's shit together and puts out a consistently great product no matter the character while DC is still struggling with only Batman being it's most consistently successful franchise. Even in BvS, the main thing people liked about the film was Ben Affleck's performance as Batman and I agree that, despite some of things he was required to do in the film, his performance was really good. We criticize out of love for these characters and the desire to see them done right on the big screen. Zack Snyder was and is a poor choice to head the DCU and should be replaced by someone who understands the material and, more importantly, cares about the material and wants to do it right.
+Reginald Lee Snyder doesn't know how to connect with audiences and he is a poor storyteller (and I'm someone who actually likes MoS). To do Superman right you need a storyteller whose films have heart and charm.
+Reginald Lee The best thing was when he pointed out that some critics (and most of the audience in general) don't even know the difference between a DC and a Marvel movie. The ironic thing is that Marvel is currently doing all the heavy lifting for the other studios. If not for them, Deadpool would have most likely never been greenlit and only got half as much attention as it did, because they were the ones who ensured that the audience is even THAT interested in comic book movies in the first place. Without Marvel, there wouldn't be DC universe, Warner would have shrugged after Man of Steel and moved forward to something else, and the Wonder Woman movie would still be in the same development hell it languished in for more than a decade beforehand. At this point, I have only two wishes: The Warner gets their sh... together and finds someone who is good in writing characters and structuring stories to helm their universe and that Fox makes a deal with Marvel and gives them the F4 rights back (they can keep the X-men for all I care).
+THEremiXFACTOR I agree. Tim Burton's Batman films were a bit dark but even his films had humor in them. Like when the Joker gets frustrated by all the press being given to Batman instead of him. The Joker says this funny line "What kind of a world do we live in where a man dressed as a bat gets all my press? then he pauses and says" This town needs an enema!" and toots a horn twice. That was hilarious. Or when Jack Napier shows up at Grissom's office after becoming the Joker and says, after killing Grissom, ""Ah, what a day!" Or when the Joker interrupts a news broadcast to advertise his new "Smilex" product complete with three dead people who had been killed by Smilex. I know that sounds awful but you have to see it to know why its funny. But my point is that Tim Burton's Batman was a dark film but was still funny through the use of morbid or dark humor. That way the film had humor but never loses it's dark edge.
+swanpride Man, I hope I can live long enough to finally see a good Fantastic Four movie. I hope that Marvel gets the rights back to Fantastic Four also.
+court of owls It's coming, but you are going to have to wait a while longer. Got a number of other videos to release first, but some of those involve Sony, so there is that.
+Midnight's Edge; heh, it's like Sony exists to make careers for critics and historians. Not saying they don't deserve it, but can they do anything right?
+Midnight's Edge Are you going to do a video about Star Trek Beyond' s troubled production history? Whether or not the movie succeeds or fails, the lead-up to it's release has been... Unusual to say the least, and is worth a look.
The "bias" theory doesn't work, because I _know_ I'm not influenced by critics. They've never kept me away from seeing a single movie I wanted to see. I like some movies that the critics (and most of the general audience) HATED. For example, I love _Tusk,_ which is supposed to be one of the worst movies of all time. I like the two Tim Story Fantastic Four movies that the whole fan community still shits on. I like the Affleck _Daredevil_ (Director's Cut). Hell, I almost liked _FANT4STIC,_ until it took a horrible turn halfway through. I like _The Spirit._ I LOVE TDKRises more than any critic I've ever seen. Things were different when people got their information from only 3 to 7 major broadcast/cable news networks on TV, or about 12 major print publications. Now, I watch none of that shit, and the only people I listen to about comic-based movies are knowledgable comics geeks and film buffs. And even then, I usually have my mind made up whether or not I see a movie BEFORE I watch reviews. I generally see ALL the CBM's, except I'm not too crazy about X-men movies. They're good, but . . . just not my thing. I'm not into the outdated "sheeple" concept. I _don't_ think most people just "jump on the bandwagon". I think most people DO think for themselves.
+Ben Culture First of all, arguing "I don't listen to critics, so critics can't be biased" might be one of the dumbest things I've read all day. I get that you're saying you don't pay attention to critics, and that's fine, but that's not related to the argument anyone is making. The video is about the critics themselves being biased towards Marvel films, being willing to give them more leeway and ignore potential flaws. That argument is neither supported nor disproven by anyone saying whether they're influenced by critics or not. Second, and I'm sad to admit this, most people still pay attention to what people tell them. So if you have 10 critics that tell you a movie is a good, most people will watch it. Same as if you have 10 people that say a movie is shit, most people won't watch it. I don't listen to critics either, but I don't have nearly as much faith in humans as you. The popularity of shows like Keeping up with the Kardashians, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo tells me all I need to know about humans ability to think for themselves.
+Ekene Okere I am only being objective buddy. They have a plan which started in 2008 all the way 2020, at least. They have their own studio, while DC movies are actually Warner Brothers' movies (Thus DC themselves have very little to no input regarding the movies) They have segmented their movies into phases. They have an overseer of the entire Cinematic Universe - Kevin Feige. I can go on and on.
yeah if you understood everything they did prior to the studio starting you would understand why they cant (and shouldnt) jump straight into a studio themselves. DC have that luxury, Doing that would be "rushing" it. Saying they want to have what marvel has without any effort is a lazy ill thought out and quite frankly cliched thing to say. Marvel have a lot of goodwill which means everything they do is interpreted good, the problem is when that good will of some fans becomes "protectionism" and they start attacking percieved enemies of the studio. People saying what you said there are among the worst offenders and represent a huge part of the problem people have with marvel fandom.
+Ekene Okere the whole of BvS was an effort to set up an Extended Cinematic Universe. What took Marvel 6 movies to do they (DC/WB) tried in one movie. Look at how it turned out? They should have taken their time and focused on developing their CU rather than rushing it. That seemed very desperate to say the least.
You May not realise this but they have set things up, BVS is essentially batmans reintroduction, the wonder woman movie is coming too and then after that you get a Justice league movie, so you would have got movies essentially on superman, batman and wonder woman before you have a justice league movie, if you stopped seeing everything with marvel blinkers you would realise they arent rushing to a justice league movie, there would have been 4 movies prior to it.
People who believe there's an anti-DC/pro-Marvel agenda among critics are overly sensitive fanboys. They just need to accept that Zack Snyder is bad director who shouldn't be spearheading DC movies.
73% with a certified fresh on it, for a "okay" movie and that does not fabricated to you? plus this wasn't the first time they did this. www.cbsnews.com/news/sony-pays-for-fake-reviews/ but keep insulting though... cause that's all you got.
Lone432345 That's really setting the bar low. Fans should be getting better movies. They're just remaking the old trilogies to fit their pc narratives now.
It tears me up inside to see how the DC Cinematic Universe has turned out so far. I want to see the DC movies become just as successful as Marvel's. It'd be great to have 2 good comic book movie universes instead of just 1. So please DC, stop making bad movies. God, I hope Suicide Squad is good!
I don't think Marvel will have to worry about fatigue, the way Winter Soldier, Guardians, and Ant-Man spun away from superhero into other genres: spy/political thriller, space opera/outlaws, heist, would suggest they know there are ways to make superhero movies without them being considered only in the superhero genre, and heck Dr. Strange is on the way. If all their movies were to be only Avengers type formula forever then perhaps fatigue might set it but that seems very unlikely to be the case now for Marvel. DC on the other hand is probably going to be bible thumping Superman in audiences faces as long as Snyder is at the helm. As the saying goes, if you want to convert people into atheism, force them to actually read that bible. If WB/DC wants to succeed, they need to grab the idiot beating people in the face with a bible and remove him. Not the best analogy on my part perhaps, unlike the bible for instance you can rewrite the scripts going forward and such, so you can take out the bits about approving of slavery and genocide.
Not only do both companies need the other to succeed but also they also need to provide the audience with High quality Variety. People will get bored. I actually like that the DCU is darker but they need to tighten up there scripts.
Marvel/Disney didn't need to pay off critics to trash "Batman V Superman." The film was objectively bad and was destined to get bad reviews. It's just fact. It lacks basic structure, has no real character motivation and/or development, it's visual storytelling is a mixed-bag, it has virtually no organic sense of humor, it's generally dull and the writing is just lazy with it's over-reliance on convenience, coincidence and contrivance. (And gratingly pretentious pseudo-philisophical dialog.) It's fine if you're a super-fan and can ignore the problems or you just can look over it's flaws. But to ignore the fact that the film is obviously a wildly troubled one and invent some conspiracy-theory about how it's the victim of critic-pay-off's is just ludicrous. Everyone has those movies they like despite being bad, and that's fine... stop acting like this one is some special butterfly that can only be good just because Batman's in it.
I don't really pay that much attention to critics when I go see a movie. I don't want my opinion influenced in any way; so, I hold off judging until after I see the movie. After watching BvS, though, I agree that DC needs to get its shit together. I grew up reading DC Comics and it stings when they make a movie that isn't at par with Marvel's. The sad thing was that Snyder had a really good movie buried inside the BvS mess. It just tried to cram too many stories and avoided post credit scenes all because the studio didn't want people to think that they were "imitating Marvel". I know that Zac Snyder is a DC fan. But, being a fan and respecting the material are two different things.
Batman v Superman is terrible and that's why critics hate it, but is kinda weird how awful Marvel Cinematic Universe comedy films like Thor Ragnarok, get fresh reviews despite the comedy being not funny and damaging the dramatic stakes, it's like having everyone joke while 9-11 is happening.
It's a great movie. The hate is because of things OUTSIDE the movie. Like own views on what characters should be like, and that "Oh its not comic accurate buuuhuuuu"
I will say that Marvel's more old-school, lighthearted formula appeals to a broader range of viewers and critics alike, and in that sense it is "superior," especially from a mainstream blockbuster standpoint. Rottentomatoes tends to lump so-so reviews in with the "Rotten" pile, so that won't help divisive love-it-or-hate-it films like Man of Steel (2013) or Batman v Superman (2016). I for one enjoyed BvS, but would not recommend it to most casual movie-goers, as opposed to the best MCU films like Iron Man (2008), The Winter Soldier (2014), or Avengers (2012). The slow, steady, methodical rhythm to Marvel's films works better from a classical blockbuster storytelling standpoint than the erratic, throw-everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach DC seems to be going with. I definitely prefer Snyder's approach to action, combat, and visuals over the repetitive, at this point, *bland* spectacle of the MCU, but there's no denying the MCU films hit every basic screenwriting beat, even if the plots themselves don't make much sense either.
listen I loved batman v superman. but the story itself was rushed no arguing with that. everything was rushed. I wished they took there time with setting up the DCEU. after suicide squad it's going to justice League.... Come on.... lmao..... they should just rename DCEU to rushed dc properties.
+Poppa Carmine I know the story was all over the place but they got an 8 month extension to work on the story. That's what makes it more concerning. They had a lot of extra time to work on it and it still came out all over the place.
+Z3ROTH3RT33N note that this movie was originally 3 or 4 hours..they had to cut a lot of scenes for theatrical release..so, maybe that's why the story feels rushed..
They got to you too! (Kidding!) Seriously, I have a built in DC bias and even as an unapologetic DC fanboy I have to admit the Marvel movies are better. I remember reading an article in the National Post (here in Canada) where they said that Thor 2 was a better "Superman" movie than Man of Steel was. Having seen both. I agree. BTW, I wish Disney was paying me to say this. I could use the money. For starters, I'd buy more DC comics.
The correct word would be ""hypothesis". Hypotheses are the educated guesses, while the theories are the proven bodies composed of facts, truth, and evidence.
Spot on analysis. Especially your conclusion Marvel does want DC to get their shit together. I do fear over saturation. Civil War is great but I wonder if blow back from BvS will hurt it.
I admit..i wanted both CIvil war and Batman v Superman to do great....so there would be a new era...but i admit if both movies failed..then we could say good bye to super hero genre
This is exactly the de-bunking this theory needed! In the Snowden/Assange age we live in, Disney would be unmasked within a matter of days, if not hours. And Henry Cavill, SUPERMAN HIMSELF, put it perfectly (I paraphrase): 'If DC does well, superhero movies do well, Marvel does well.' It would do nothing but HURT Marvel if they were paying off critics. Grace Randolph has since changed her tune to suggest a pro-Marvel campaign, rather than an anti-DC campaign, insinuating that Marvel treats critics better, therefore the critic treat Marvel better (see her disgracefully unprofessional retweeting of a photo of Collider's John Campea at the Civil War premiere). This is patently untrue. Agents of Shield was critically panned, to the point that the spin-offs were cancelled. The majority of Marvel movies lie closer to the 65% 'fresh' threshold than the '85/90% 'incredible' threshold. And Campea himself gave Jessica Jones, which was otherwise pretty universally praised, a 3/10! Grace Randolph's nothing more than a conspiracy theorist. Her and her disciple-like fans should retreat to the murky depths whence they came.
Dean Carter My point is, if this was happening, it would have been leaked by now. It's got nothing do to with what would happen to the leaker post-leaking (ok that was a shit sentence haha).
hughtubecube in this day and age it is more difficult than ever before. We have a social media delivery system where people can hide behind a user name and communicate in private. Deals can be struck behind closed doors and we wouldn't know it. Back in 2001, the State of Connecticut fined Sony pictures over $300,000 for a phony review. The state got involved only because a newspaper outlet divulged that the person who did the review, David Manning, did not work for them. Nowadays, there are fewer (print) news outlets, and most film critcs either work for themselves or for an Internet blog site. If a studio cut some type of deal with them, we would never know unless that critic divulged it themselves. Wistleblowers in this day and and age, like Julian Assange and Anthony Snowden are either fugitives or go to prision (the also make for bad biopics). Yes, its even harder to uncover stuff like that nowadays.
Dean Carter But you'll notice that when stuff does get leaked, it's because whatever corruption was taking place was 'bigger-than-huge' news. News that would drastically affect the world, whether we're talking stocks, political regimes, or any of that sort of thing. If we're talking about the biggest, most iconic, and most historically significant movie studio in the world paying people off, that more than certainly falls under the 'bigger-than-huge' category. But let's be honest, we're not going to convince each-other of anything. You think I'm way too optimistic, I think you're way too cynical, and we both think the other is interpreting the evidence in the wrong manner. So let's quit while we're ahead and not involved in a pointless and protracted comments war. Shall we at least agree on that?
hughtubecube, since the advent of Wikileaks, any company that has investors and is smart enough to have a good IT department, has blocked the site from their TCIP's. I work for one and I know it (I can't even look up the name on Wikepedia). It is not as easy to expose the corruption as you might think. If it were, they we would know who all of Umberto Gonzales, Devin Faraci, and Drew McWeeny's sources are (and we don't). Yes, you are way too optimistic. The signs are there in the posts you can read on the Internet (IMDb, Superherohype, Redit, et. al.) that there are people out there that knew there would be negative reviews months and years prior to the release of the film. That spells conspiracy and that's not good.
Say what you will about Superman Returns, I think it had the PERFECT tone to build a Universe around- Somber, not dark. That movie exemplified the not so glamorous aspect of being a Superhero. I think it would have contrasted MCU well, and you could see most DC properties fitting that tone. DCEU is a universe that is obsessed with Batman, so much so that it smothers any superhero that is not Batman.
Allow me to return to my teenage years to explain why I want both DC and Marvel to excel. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is commonly considered one of, if not _the,_ best Star Trek series of all time. It struggled a bit to find its feet, but then it developed into a solid dramatic series, examining ideas and characters other Star Trek series never even touched. Babylon 5 was, hands down, the best space opera TV series in history. It paved the way for todays long-form storytelling, it pioneered the use of CGI on TV, and it proved that space-based TV series that weren't Star Trek could be successful. These two series had fundamentally similar premises - indeed, Deep Space Nine was a ripoff of Babylon 5 - and they ran at the same time, but they each went their own way, and they made each other _better._ B5's strong storytelling and performances forced DS9 to improve their own writing and pressed them to try new things in order to compete. DS9's high production values and FX setpieces forced B5 to push the envelope to compete, to do more with less and show that cheap sci-fi didn't have to be silly and campy. Competition _works,_ and it gives us the audience a better product. I'm much more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan. I love the ideas of Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern in particular. Unfortunately, the characters and the ideas alone aren't enough; you need the stories to go with them. That's where DC keeps failing, occasional triumphs like Wonder Woman and Shazam notwithstanding. They need to step up to Marvel's challenge and start telling _great stories_ with their characters, instead of trying to change their characters into unrecognisable husks of themselves.
I am SO happy Grace Randolph is finally being treated like the joke she is and has always been. It's such a shame too because she's probably the highest-profile female UA-camr in this area and there are so few of them I want them to succeed just so we can have a more equal distribution of points of view. I don't just want to hear from men. That's one-sided and not the complete picture. So I want all kinds of people to be around here. And that's why it's such a shame she's, well, how she is. It just makes it that much harder to take women seriously for a lot of people. Is it fair? Hells no it's not. But is it true? Yeah, I think it is.
I think a lot of people hold Superman and Batman to a higher standard or "level" than Marvel heroes. It's not wrong to expect the best out of DC movies, but the fact that they have had so many different incarnations and reboots of the year, it's been hard to invest in them for the long run. I know when I thought of a "superhero" I automatically thought of Superman and Batman, and for the most part still do. But when I think of a Superhero movie, I think of Marvel.
Why didn't I see Batman Vs. Superman? A huge comic book fan at work had not seen it and when I asked him why he said his friends had seen it and described it as a "convoluted mess". When the mans friends who are also huge comic book fans said that I knew it was not worth going to the theater to see.
Another factor that *may* have a bearing on reviews it that Warner Bros has a reputation for treating press and critics pretty shabbily over the years by refusing to show advanced screenings, micromanaging press events and generally treating them as though they were the enemy. Disney has always had a reputation for going out of their way to indulge critics with advanced screenings, sharing information with the press, and the like.
I fully agree and especially the end. After leaving the cinema from BvS being disappointed and what not, I really didn't want to touch anything superhero related for a while. I put the comics I was reading on hold for a couple of days, stopped playing Arkham City (first time playing it), refused to finish Daredevil or any other superhero shows on TV. I am a massive fan and a shit movie from either Fox or WB can have negative repercussions for the whole industry. So, Marvel Studio doesn't want to do that. After watching Civil War my faith in superhero movies had been renewed and I'm excited for X-Men Apocalypse.
+Danny Malzahn And when the MCU does release a mediocre movie I do quit superhero based content. But, I honestly think BvS is worse than any mediocre Marvel movie even more so when it was the first movie to star three of the most iconic superheroes ever and it is a disappointing interpretation of my favourite superheroes. Really the first movie to have Wonder Woman is a movie where she watches trailers for other movies and barely says anything. The world building the DC universe seems last minute and forced. There's more DC movies coming out in the next few years then there are Marvel. Yes the ramifications are low in the MCU but I'd rather have this then have poorly executed deaths such as Gwen Stacy, the mutants in X-Men 3 and Superman. Putting in said ramifications in the second movie is stupid. I am more attached to the characters in the Fox and MCU movies than I am of DC. The Supergirl TV show mentions Superman and that version of Superman is a better representation of Superman than the broody one note Synder verse that isn't Superman. Sure you can change characteristics in the movies but not when your characters are so universally known that non comic book fans can highlight what Superman is. In fact Marvel has a better characterisation of Superman with Captain America than Synder does.
+Danny Malzahn Also what is the point of killing off Superman and then hinting that he is alive again ten minutes later. That is not showing ramifications of the universe, that's shoehorning in a well known arc just because it's dark. And dark is always better apparently. His death was so cliché. The Russos don't kill people off for this reason unless they know the actor or character will not be used again. They know nobody really dies in comics and want to waste screen time reviving a character. There was no tension because of his death.
+Danny Malzahn That's fair I see where you are coming. I don't like unorthodox view on traditional characters. I genuinely like the Supergirl show more than BvS. Because the movie looks pretty doesn't mean it's good in my opinion. I prefer ramifications being played out rather than sudden death after one movie and one movie where he was there for ten minutes and didn't add to the plot. I had no emotional attachment to this broody Superman because of no character development at all. Why did he still think that killing is fine after the ramifications of killing Zod and his sudden grief afterwards? I would have thought afterwards he would make a vow not to kill. I cared for Gandalf because he had actual dialogue and development. I actually liked Man of Steel where he has some hope and actually smiled. The Doctor in Doctor Who taught he was the last of his kind for a while but he didn't brood like an ass hole. Superman is more of a human and that doesn't justify this. I prefer characters like Hawkeye and War Machine who had more screen presence and it wasn't their movies. You do know that Spiderman is like in the comics right? The co-creator of Punisher absolutely hates BvS because of the very reason of these characters being nothing like their origins of why people sympathise with these characters. These are characters we inspire to and how to do things. And even in a world that is still fucked we need a symbol of hope not Batman with superpowers. That's why I thought the motives was completely contradictory between the two "main" characters. Let's agree that we have different opinions and end this discussion. If I don't like Suicide Squad (which I've been more hopeful about than BvS since the start) and Wonder Woman (which I'm excited about as she's awesome that the right director can handle this correctly) I might give up on the DCEU and stick to the TV universe.
+Danny Malzahn To add I'm not saying Batman is a bad superhero. He's my favourite DC hero because of his perseverance to sticking up for the little guy and not resorting to the cheap ways like any other man would. He again is someone we inspire to. And Wonder Woman shows what women can do if she sets their mind to it. Yes times have changed since these characters' introduction but justice is not resorting to the worst scenario possible. Additionally times haven't changed so much that we should give up on all hope and abandon everything. We need that more than anything now. I heard that Robin killed as well before Jason Todd's death, that gives no reason for Batman to kill.
Another way to avoid fatigue is to stop making solo movies after they hit there trilogy mark. I don't want to see another Captain America, Ironman or Thor SOLO movie after Civil War and Ragnarok. The characters can still exist in the team Avengers movies, but the solo's should move in a different direction with Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Antman/Wasp.
The Internet seems to love conspiracy theories in general. There are a lot of UA-camrs who think there's a massive conspiracy to cover up that the Earth is -- I kid you not -- flat.
Do you see the possibility at one point of Marvel telling DC behind curtains to get their shit together in order to keep the genre alive? That would be funny! Btw Great video!
+JR. Lopez Thanks, and as a matter of fact - yes, I do see that possibility. I'd be actually surprised if that hasn't happened already. The higher ups hang out in many of the same circles.
I think it's simple. If you write an engaging story, have characters that you make me care about, pepper in some laughs, have a great director / cast you're set. Oh, and don't spoil the entire movie via trailer... To me this is the equation to Marvel's success.
The value of a critic's opinion really shouldn't be held at that high a premium. It's nice to have their approval, and sometimes they provide legit critique's, but if on is making a movie with a certain base is mind then it's the opinion of those the movie is made for that should be given serious consideration (though slobbering fanboys who can see no fault should be treated with skepticism). Like you said, goodwill and expectations are far more explanatory than some kind of hate boner for DC. Marvel Studios can take characters few remember, let along like, then turn them into household names while DC is stumbling to make coherent movies not about Batman. Actually, a better contrast would be between Deadpool and Batman vs. Superman. Working within a budget forced those behind Deadpool to get creative while BvS had a massive fortune thrown at is and Zack Snyder was the overindulgent, vapid ass he normally is.
Some of these critics are not even journalists. Who the hell is Jeff Stuckmann and why is he considered a top critic? You can't rely or truly respect a critics opinion because there is no real validity or authority behind it.
Payed-Off? No. Biased. Hell yes. Civil has many of the elements people trash BvS for. But "it's Marvel so LOL it's awesome!" There is no reason, absolutely NO REASON BvS should be sitting at a damned 28% on RT. BvS is far more ambitious, layered and well made than say, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor 2 or Ant-Man. But because BvS is different than what critics are used to, it gets slammed.
Please do a video on the career trajectory of Zach Snyder. He flew under the radar for years until he was in his late thirties. He has one writing credit before directing Day of the Dead. I will never forgave him for sprinting zombies.
It occurs to me that the idea that critics -- or critical response in general -- hold major sway over public perception is a major part of the basis of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.
Film critics are biased against bad movies. Who could've guessed?
why is bad?
+xzenitramx666 Because it's bad.
On the other hand, and pelase don't take this as an ofense, English is not your native language, am I right?
+xzenitramx666 Why is Batman V Superman bad? It all comes down to the sloppy writing and direction. There are SOOOO many moments in the film that make no sense and are just flat out stupid that it's hard to ignore its shortcomings
TheToonGrump you colud tell me what moments where please?.
+xzenitramx666 My feed is filled with those video reviews. If there are good reviews of this film, send me a link. I'm not being facetious. This is a serious request. I am a huuuuge DC fan, and I have no good reviews on my feed. Grace Randolph doesn't count; hers was mixed.
While I have enjoyed all the movies form both DC and Marvel, I can't help feel sorry for DC, they make DAMN GOOD animated movies that to me are way better then their live action movies, but sadly so many people see any thing animated as "kids stuff" that they get pushed to the sides.
+FeyWinter Fox he killing joke will be rated R so... i don't know if that will last long. ALL HAIL BRUCE TIMM
Phelibas
WOW, I didn't know that! I can't wait,with the BTAS crew, you KNOW this will be good!
Justice League Doom is awesome, and it should've been the live-action one...
I find the DC films repugnant, disrespect the characters, put them into no win situations, and are dystopic and dark.
Why does hollywood think people are going to line up and hand over their money to see a series of unpleasant films.
Also DC films are not good films to begin with. But I could over look that if they weren't so unpleasant.
Same thing happened with the last jedi. They actively destroy luke which is enough to make me hate the movie but *also* it's an objectively bad film that needs a good editor to hack away at it and restructure it just to get it to "bearable". The objectively bad stuff I could probably overlook if the film wasn't crapping down my throat.
I do not trust critics who get early and free access to these movies. They can be cut off from early and free access so they are inherently biased in favor of the movie. If nothing else, disney can cut off access to critics they don't like until all the early reviewers are just naturally people who like what Disney is putting out. Perhaps Warner hasn't done as good a job or doesn't spend as much money on marketing. One thing I *do* *not* think is that critics are given actual cash. That would be a huge scandal waiting to break and be really dumb on the studios parts.
FeyWinter Fox blame WB man
Why would Marvel need to pay anyone to call trash trash? BvS was a poorly written movie, period
True
Oh man i knew it wouldn't be good but I went anyway hoping I was wrong. wow I had no idea they could make it that bad. They killed the JLA movie im not even going. I mean come on is the flash a serial killer now? Ted Bundy as superman? what the hell?
What critic would want to hurt their credibility so badly by signing off on BvS?
+Maxx227 ...Did we see the same movie? I thought it was good.
I liked it
competition is best for both DC and Marvel. good vid, no conspiracy here.
Waith there's people being paid to traash Batman v Superman? Man, I've been doing it all this time for free.
What's funny is how some DC fanboys are now forcing themselves to not like Captain America: Civil War as some kind of bizarre payback for all the people who said they hated BvS.
+C.B Black You are probably right WB/DC need to just give up on the movies they will NEVER do a good job I mean never . Batman v Superman had more hype then the second coming of Jesus and we all saw how horrible that movie was. On the other hand the DC tv shows are fantastic they need to focus on those in my opinion.
Only a Marvel fan boy would say that.
wildevil Were you addressing me? If so, sorry to disappoint you, but I have no particular affection for either of them. I've never read a comic in my life, even as a kid. Until a few months ago I couldn't even tell you which character belonged to which comic, and even now I only know a few. I'm just an impartial observer and a fan of films. But I will admit to being fascinated by fandoms especially the DC fans right now because they're so reactionary. And it amuses me to see punters arguing over these big businesses.
C.B Black
I suppose both sides are extremely sensitive to their respective comics, which is silly since they are fans of the same genre and the rivalry is as unnecessary as it is childish. I often go around defending DC, but I wouldn't have to if their weren't so many self righteous Marvel fans bashing them. Not that I dislike Marvel either, cause I do read their comics, and watch their films, but the fans march in here like they know everything, and of course I enjoy pointing out that they dont. You would probably be a Reed Richards fan of the Fantastic Four if you ever got into it, or maybe Doctor Manhattan of the Watchmen,...the literature, not so much the films. Men of science, as I assume you are into that.
I used to love Marvel and DC equally for what they were, but DC made so many bad decisions that their comics universe was no longer even recognizable as what made it great in the first place. They've only just recently tried making up for their mistakes so I guess we'll have to wait and see if they can turn it around. Admittedly, Marvel has made a few odd decisions in recent years but nothing near as baffling or ridiculous as what DC did.
of course it had to be Grace Randolph, crazier than a bag of cats that one
+cristhianfs she's adopted
+Checheyigen1 lmao I see what you did there.
;)
Agreed!
That bitch. She praised Fant4stic but cried fowl when it came to the Jem debacle. She's the Ann Coulter of Geekdom
There is people who clearly have an agenda against DC: Dan Didio, Jim Lee, Eddie Berganza, Bob Harras, and the Warner board of directors who have no clue at all of how to manage their licenses.
And it saddens me because I love DC just as much as Marvel; none is better, they are just different in their take on superheroes.
+Spike Exactly. Why does it have to be this huge dick measuring contest between fans?
+Hub Pie, In my personal experience, it just happens with casual fans who have an emotional investment in very popular and overrated comics from more 20 years, like The Death of Superman or Maximum Carnage, who haven't read anything since and live under the illusion the comic book industry is like this Coca-Cola/Pepsi Civil War dichotomy when, in reality, it's pretty much the same creative people jumping from company to company trying to keep the tradition alive and make ends meet.
+Hub Pie Because tribal identity. I'm considering doing a video on that too.
+Midnight's Edge The one good thing that did happen after BvS disappointed was that it knocked the DC side out of play. Unfortunately, I think the real "fan war" now is between X-Men/Deadpool fans and MCU fans.
Interestingenough4 Marvel: Civil War
I agree. If Disney was caught bribing critics, it would damage not only the Marvel brand, but also the Disney and Star Wars brands. I don't see Disney risk loosing a billion dollars just to win a dime.
+Nathaniel Levesque
You'd be surprised.
To words Jack Kirby. Guy was screwed over by Marvel and joined DC and created their Forth World characters.
One time a company got damaged and there were problems with a fake critic named David Manning. Both companies in theory have the power so is not like Disney is the only ones....Warner could do it if they wanted. But on the long run, nobody wants a pirric victory
+lsebastian9086 That David Manning debacle was SONY's doing; they created that fake critic to give all their movies positive reviews regardless of their quality.
Brandon Dozier
Dammit! I keep mistaking the studio that made David Manning.
Thank you for the correction.
Your analysis from 8:00 onward was the most spot-on in this whole discussion. That's the thing with these giant corporations: They'd rather everyone carve out their own crime block and live in coexistence than engage in all-out war. A crude analogy, but it fits well enough.
DC needs to replace Zach Snyder with George Miller.
They need to stop taking a page from Fox in terms of relying on one director & just take more notes from Marvel Studios. That and quit shoving the New 52 into everything
kory stephens preach
+kory stephens Agreed
+xMysticEpyonx YES!!!!!!!!!!!
+Danny Malzahn +Danny Malzahn They don't need the same tone as Marvel, but they do need to build their characters first. The reason the MCU does work is that most of the Avengers were introduced in separate solo films first. This meant the audience was already invested in the character. BvS suffered for being rushed and overstuffed.
Fantastic analysis, Andre. The idea of bias is definitely something worth to be considered and I do agree with your conclusion there. As for Bribery, you are spot on! As an addendum to that point, assuming Disney could cover their tracks and bribe the hundreds of critics, they'd have to bank on (aside from the information leaking naturally) not ONE of them to snitch.
The whistleblowing can obviously be due to a moral stance or self-gain. Specifically, publicity and notoriety. And on that notion, the risk heavily outweighs any sense of reward. So yeah, the tin hat people who purport this really don't have a clue and for the most part are incredibly bitter(or salty. I dislike that word by the way when describing dislike.) about BVS not doing well.
And Marvel and DC do depend on one another. While they want to compete, they know for a fact that in the long run, it is in BOTH their best interests to produce good CBM related material. Other wise, people will get bored and they will be in trouble as you eloquently stated. And it is because of this byproduct that we as fans win. This being all the great content we're getting/we'll be getting.
You're thoughts on the importance of the DCEU in the larger role of the superhero genre was spot on. The biggest threat facing the genre is over saturation and mediocry. We're getting dozens of superhero movies over the next 4 years and in the time, the general audience will grow apathetic towards the films and stop going. And what will add to the apathy is the quality of films. It doesn't matter if your Disney, Fox, Sony or Warner, everyone has a role to play to keep this genre going strong.
+samzilla567 My dad was already getting tired of superhero movies, but I think Guardians of the Galaxy and the Infinity War storyline has brought back his interest in MARVEL.
Yeah, people will get tired of the same thing if they keep getting it over and over again. Why do you think animation fans complain that all cartoons on Cartoon Network are comedies and not enough action cartoons; it's because while there are a couple of gems like Adventure Time and Steven Universe that have restored CN's reputation, CN keeps trying to capitalize on those formulas set by Adventure Time and just make everything a comedy for kids, hence you get shows like Teen Titans Go.
But to bring up a better example, look at how Universal is trying to reboot the MONSTERS CINEMATIC UNIVERSE as a MARVEL-esque action/superhero-y series instead of an actual horror series.
Critics are scared of Disney. They would never dare completely trash a Disney own movie.
Excuse me...
www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alice_in_wonderland_through_the_looking_glass/
Looking forward to the back-peddling and justifications!
HA!. If Disney made a bad movie......people would have no mercy, hunt it and destroy it with no mercy.
Guys nailed it. I love this channel. So true about Transformer movies. They still make billions. Like Sandler movies still make millions.
Yep, Disney is risking its ENTIRE reputation and history bribing critics to say they hate an awful to mediocre film because that will drive up ticket sales for Civil War, because Marvel films have been struggling to find an audience and profitability for the past decade...
(sarcasm)
+WiseKing Disney only has a good reputation with those who don't know it very well as a company.
+90 Lancaster The same could be said about WB, DC (who are in the midst of a little scandal involving keeping employed an editor with a history of sexual harrassment), Fox and the other studios and pretty much any large corporation. The reputation Disney is trying to protect is the one that would open it up to --- the video mentions this --- a flood of litigation from people who think their product (ex. BvS) was sabotaged and thus failed to meet it's expected boxoffice mark.
If Disney/Marvel were trying to sabotage DC films then why hasn't WB/DC gone on record to accuse them of such a thing. Fanboys and the DC tinfoil hatters don't have anything to lose when DC films fails. WB/DC have millions and, maybe, billions to lose if their films don't meet expectations. They would sue, litigate and outright tear down Disney/Marvel is critic-bribing and sabotage campaign had any truth behind it. The fact they haven't done so is loud enough a confirmation that even WB/DC don't believe what Grace has been proselytizing to anyone on social media that the deck is stacked against BvS and DC.
If the deck is stacked it has less to do with Disney/Marvel and more the fact that DC, outside Nolan, hasn't earned the goodwill and trust of the general public. I don't mean DC fans. I'm talking about the general audience who couldn't care less if a film was Marvel or DC. They just want to watch a film to entertain them and the verdict on BvS from that audience has been that it failed to do so.
I think the vast majority of DC fans don't subscribe to the conspiracy and bribing theorist espoused by Grace Randolph and those who follow her every word slavishly. It's those very small, fringe, albeit vocal section of the DC fandom who have become so ludicrous in their accusations that they've become the comic fandom's version of the 9/11 Truthers.
+WiseKing My rebuttal to these conspiracy theories is that WB is a pretty big company themselves and could certainly pay off critics to trash other movies and praise their own if they were so inclined.
The fact that they clearly didn't pay off critics when it came to BvS, and certainly haven't when it comes to Civil War makes me believe that, in this case, the system works.
+WiseKing god I thought you were serious for a second.
Wise King | #Frozen already proved that somehow Disney were treated unfairly by many by given too much praises for, plus the constant #haunting of #LetItGo everywhere. Many older #Disney supporters actually decided that they wouldn't support that era Disney.
Of course, it is actually a fight by many different factions inside and outside Disney.
I'm not a critic. And as someone born and raised behind the Iron Curtain, I did not have access to Western comic book movies.
When I was in my teens during the 90s, I watched the 60s Batman show, the live-action Superboy show and later Lois & Clark. And I enjoyed them for what they were. I watched all four Batman movies with mild interest. I never really watched the Spider-Man and X-Men animated show (I was a Turtles guy)
To this day I am an avid fan of Smallville even though I can see all the flaws the show had.
So while I enjoy comic book movies, in the end I'm still an outsider who values these movies based on their entertainment value and not their affiliation.
I loved the first two X-Men movies, didn't care for the third. The same is true for Tobey's Spider-Man and The Dark Knight trilogy (TDKR was a lousy ending to its predecessors). I even like Superman Returns even though I seem to be the only one.
So besides Hulk (I did watch Lou Ferrigno's show, too in the 90s) none of the Avengers meant anything to me until they cam alive on the screen. I really like both Norton and Ruffalo as Mr. Green. I really liked Thor and the mythology behind. Iron Man was OK but outside the Avengers (and probably Civil War which I haven't seen yet) he's not amongst my favourite.
Along came MoS and I was hoping. The trailer was awesome, Costner (which I personally liked even in Robin Hood and Waterworld) was Jonathan Kent and Maximus Decimus Meridius was Jor-El. What could possibly go wrong? Well, pretty much everything. Unlike Lois & Clark and Smallville, this Superman didn't really have a story to tell. It was just mindless bashing and destroying Krypton, Smallville and Metropolis for what felt like an eternity. Every Kryptonian except for the House of El carried the idiot ball as long as the planet was still around, just so the planet could explode. The council even admitted that they made the planet's core unstable but evacuating the planet? That's just ludicrous. Even Zod's taking-over-the-council-plan was more concerned with the bloodlines than actually saving the race in the immediate future. And if the Kryptonians didn't take Lois aboard their vessel for no apparant reason, their plan might have worked in the end.
Did BvS did do better? No. These characters have no comprehensible to bash on each other. All they accuse each other of they are guilty of doing themselves. And Lex the joking Riddler is afraid of what one Kryptonian might do and that's why he's creating an undefeatable Kryptomonster? Yeah right.
That's why I like the MCU and dislike the DCEU so far. One company's movies work for me, the other one's don't.
The problem with the theory is that for such an undertaking to occur, thousands upon thousands of not just movie critics and internet reviewers would have to have been paid to bash Dawn of Justice. While we all joke about how Disney has limitless money, even they couldn't do that, even if they wanted to. Not to mention, there would have been a leaks about this by now from the less professional reviewers online they bought off.
Fatigue wont happen. Unlike DC, Marvel makes all their movies different and fresh enough from each other enough so, we dont really notice similarities between each other.
If superheroe genre was a pokemon type, it would be Dragon. It is the most powerful because of its flexibility.
A superheroe movie can be:
A spy thriller (Winter Soldier)
A war historical movie (First avenger)
A space opera (Guardians of the Galaxy)
A heist movie (Antman)
A new take of matrix/inception with reality bending (Doctor Strange)
A technology movie (Iron Man)
Or a plain superhero team up movie (Avengers)
And many many more possibilities like
A highschool drama (Homecoming)
Political thriller (Black panther)
An army movie (Captain Marvel)
An epic (Ragnarok)
Outstanding words there, Andre! I don't think anybody at UA-cam have said this better than you!
When I first heard of this from Collider, I just laughed it out. I just thought that came from some random idiotic fan. But when I saw those videos from CBC and John Campea, I was shocked. I couldn't that kind of stupidity has escalated that far.
I knew Grace had a grudge against Marvel, but wow! I'm tempted to say more, but this %&*# woman got tons of fans who are as unscrewed as her.
Thanks!
Marvel Fanboy Bias? No.
DC Fanboy Denial? Probably.
+ToddTheTolerable The denial is real, HeelNavi.
Hub Pie Amen to that.
Puh-lease. Marvel don't need to pay people to trash DC films, the fans do it for free
Bias against DC?! It wouldn't be because Marvel is responsive to their fans and faithful to the source material... and oh yeah MAKE FUN MOVIES! DC has become increasingly "dark and gritty" driving away both causal and diehard fans. DC put out movies where Batman has guns and Superman kills people (A LOT of people) for crying out loud. I heard someone use the word "joyless" to describe DC movies, and I think that would be the most appropriate word to describe most of the recent DC movies.
Just look at the different roll outs of Batman v. Superman and Civil War.
BvS: Social media blackouts and embargo on critics' reviews based on the early screenings, what's his name playing Superman, who is so bland I can never remember his name, sneaking around Times Square taking pictures of himself wearing a Superman shirt. AND EVEN THEN no one recognizes him in public. Oh yeah, not to mention well sourced article after well sourced article about how the studio is in FULL PANIC lowering their expectations for BvS again and again. Oh further panicking and dropping millions on Suicide Squad reshoots.
Civil War: Genuinely positive reviews on social media without fear of repercussions for negative, cast visiting kids in hospitals etc.
Sure there's a bias, just like a race between a F1 formula car vs. a city bus is biased. The formula car is purpose built to be fun, on the cutting edge of tech, quick on its feet, responsive to change, takes risks. The bus, slow, lumbering, follows the same easy to predict route every time, tries to please everyone, but nobody on that ride is happy.
+boredcollegestudent Joyless is a perfect description. For the love of all things holy, at least throw some color in the film. Everything was so muted dark. Also, does every fight scene have to be at night during a rain storm?
+pk13910 Color for starters, heroes and villains that would act within their character, anyone but Snyder directing, not combining three different comic stories into one overly bloated movie. Those four easy changes could make millions of dollars difference for WB/DC.
MUTHERFUCKING AGREED!!!
+boredcollegestudent I don't remember Henry Cavill (the guy playing Supes) doing that in Times Square. That's depressing as hell when nobody recognizes the guy playing fucking Superman, but know the guy who played STAR LORD from Guardians of the Galaxy!
+boredcollegestudent the grimdark tone could work , but then again this movie was a victim of the panic of wb, they wanted so badly to compete with marvel on what marvel did on 5 movies with only 2 so they rush everything, having the movie be and ad of all of these films that will come out in the future instead of telling a good story and in hands of a director that's all style, no substance.
It is beyond me how they did not noticed that was a trainwreck in the making
"Gritty", "Edgy", "Angst Ridden" is cheesy and went out of fashion in the mid-90's, as the makers of the Crow sequels discovered all too late. Now DC could take a hint and figure out that we aren't interested in a stable of super "heroes" who all have the same brooding personality. Boring.
+chris wyble The problem, I think, isn't necessarily being "gritty", but rather being artificially "gritty". Superman didn't need to be gritty, but they did it anyway just to bank on the popularity of The Dark Knight. Grittiness works in a story that is realistic and explores certain ideas and themes that are dark; people like Zack Snyder and Josh Trank didn't realize that and just went "Dark and Gritty" for the sake of "Dark and Gritty" in their respective films.
Batman v Superman got terrible reviews the night of its premier, from amateur critics with less than a hundred viewers who just saw it in a local cinema, as well as from professionals. That would have to be some kind of insanely fine-grain bribing...
+Awakeandalive1 Including from amateur "critics" that are full on DC and hoping for at least passable standards.
good point. I even saw hardcore admitted DC fanboys (like Angry Joe) throw up their hands and say "what a fricken' mess!"
But when you read those reviews back then, you realized they were full of shit.
Yea people are biased but there is a difference from being biased and knowing a good film. For example, I have soft spot for Spider-Man I love those movies as a fan,but as a person who knows a good movie they suck. Civil war is as of right now my favorite comic book movie of all time that's how much I liked it. I really want to watch it again,because I am sure i am going to love it even more the second time I see it. Bvs was bad that's it there is nothing that can convince me other wise...
I'm sure no one has thought about the fact that there are professional
critics out there who know about story structure and character
development, or are simply familiar with good films and are more adept
at communicating the flaws in a badly made film. I mean, it's not like
there are no professional writers out there who charge for services such
as script doctoring, right?
+Tony Young I've thought of that, but then my rational, logical approach seems to not be the norm these days.
Critic analysis movies that tell a cohesive story, sensible plot points, strong acting and a overall theme. Every movie has the potential to be a good movie or a bad movie. BVS falls in the lines of being a good or a bad movie. Most critics consider this to be a bad movie based on the points I made earlier. There is no hate against dc. The trailers set the tone so critics weren't looking for a marvel experience. There are hundreds of movies that receive low critic scores does it mean a hatred agenda. Nope! The reality is that many fans wanted BVS to be well received like a blockbuster movie. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the fans and critics don't see it that way. It's not hate it's subjective opinion where everyone is entitled to it.
Great One! Most satisfying answer and video on the issue. I loved it. Great work, good thought
You are wrong Midnights Edge. Disney gives me a million dollars a view for my review of Captain America Civil War which compared it favorably to Batman v Superman. There is no other reason I would trash Batman v Superman. Its brilliant writing and character moments like deciding not to kill someone because you find out your rivals mother has the same very common first name. Who could not think that is brilliant writing unless we get our bribes
Are you talking about Captain America civil war or Batman v Superman?
Fair comments. Here in the UK, CAP Civil War came out 4 days ago and I know people who he'd off seeing it to hear feedback from friends after seeing BVS during opening weekend. I'm personally going back to see it this weekend and I know many people who are also so it'll be interesting to see what the box office drop-off is. I doubt it will be 70%(?) like BvS.
Let's also not forget this film tested poorly internally with Time Warner executives, and Warner also owns Rotten Tomatoes.
Not anymore. They sold 90% of there shares to Comcast.
+ZR J-Ro I stand corrected. Still, the Warner execs are all Warner.
So basically, Marvel took all the risks...and WON! DC was too scared to do it first. So now that Marvel is raking in all the cash, DC tries to quickly copy them.....and FAILED!
The moral of the story is, the name of your product is not more important than the quality of your product.
This was the best video on what Grace Randolph said. It's not biased,it's expectation...that's what Marvel has,and what DC doesn't. I'm so glad you cleared that up!
+Anthony “YHWH” Lawrence, I wonder if Grace Randolph is biased and paranoid against Marvel for firing her from the Watcher and never letting her write another series after the one she did which sucked in the script department.
Spike You may have a point
+Spike Grace is a good comic books writer. No matter what dumb conspiracy theories she puts out, you can't take away the fact she's a damn good writer.
Marcus Luera, if you like her work, that's cool, but I wouldn't consider her a good comic book writer at all. That's my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Spike sure we can do that. Just one more question if I may? Did you read her comic Supurbia?
I just randomly stumbled onto this video. Good and informative. Keep it up.
How the hell do you guys only have 12 700 subs?!!! You videos are top notch and you deserve far more viewers.
But I am sure they will come, keep up the good work guys. I personally can't wait for your videos to get released.
+Grrrr....Maritz Glad you enjoy the videos! Please help spread the word, and maybe the subsrciber count will go up too...
+Midnight's Edge I've made 10 other accounts for my 10 imaginary friends and 9 of them already subbed. One of them is a bit of a dick though.
+Midnight's Edge oh man thank u for ur un bias take i love this
Who's here in 2019 after the Captain Marvel Rotten Tomatoes controversy?
If anything Marvel would pay critics to talk up DC movies because they are in the same genre they need each other (especially DC) to do good so people won't be hesitant to see the next Superhero movie
Agreed, they want each other to succeed so they don't get a monopoly on comic book movies, on that note I would flip my shit if they hired the Russos to do lantern corps.
wow... everyone needs to hear this... Excellent analysis.
WTF your joking right? DCEU movies so far from Snyder are weak and plot holled with great outfits and special effects is all that's going for them... this is coming from a die hard DC fan...Snyder doesn't get and will never get characters like Superman, Lex. Doomsday etc and that's also why they are terrible DC movies. We need a DC Rebirth already... sadly.
The reason they got Zack Snyder is because after Green Lantern failed the Warner president believed it was because the Green Lantern movie wasn't "dark and edgy" enough, even though the real problem was that it didn't do a good job at introducing audiences to the character.
the reason they picked him is because he made watchman a faithful adaptation that actually was better than the comic.
+Brandon Dozier wut? when will they get we are sick of dark n edgy. i just want character that i will remember in two three years, not blackboards and hollow shells.
If you don't want non memorable characters then don't watch a marvel movie cause that's all they are.
Lol.
Closing argument was smart and true. Have all the upvotes!
I think you're over simplifying it all a bit. I think most people would agree that Batman v Superman is an average film, not great but not horrible either. However, if you look at the critics they gave it a universal thrashing along the lines of the Transformers films, or even last year's Fantastic Four. Yet, if you look at what most would consider to be average Marvel films like Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 2, and Iron Man 3, the critics gave them much more leeway despite their shortcomings, even praising Iron Man 3.
It's probably true that that's more due to bias towards Marvel films, and them expecting them to be good so any flaws are dismissed in order to maintain that illusion. However, at some stage it is a failing on the critics professionalism to thrash one film for having flaws, yet praising other films despite their flaws. That isn't even to say that a lot of critics savaged Batman v Superman for not being as fun and entertaining as a Marvel film, which is a ludicrous thing to say as they are supposed to objectively assess a film's strengths and weaknesses not hold it to a format of a different movie.
Good point in that. People expected a lot more of the confrontation between two of the most famous and known superheroes ever.
I agree with all points made here. The idea of bribing is ridiculous. You mentioned about the fear of comic book film fatigue; I think that is a big reason behind the problems with the BvS film. Fear of the comic book bubble bursting before DC has time to build their DCU leads them to fast-track in one film what marvel built over many movies.
If Marvel is bribing the critics, that means DC can do the same. Then nothing has been accomplished. It's easier just to try to make a good film.
I admit..if the claims were against an indie Studio i could really believe in those theories...but Warner is not SLouch either and they theorically could have the sources to do the sabotage...but if both loose then nothing good happens.
The people I know (not critics) who love both and who have seen movies from both companies can see the rush that DC has made to play catch up with Marvel. It shows in their films. It has nothing to do with someone favoring Marvel.
Whether or not certain people feel better towards Marvel than DC, the bottom line is the DC movies that have been out recently have been rushed, muddled, and not as coherent a movie as it could be. The disappointment that people feel can't be blamed on Marvel or the quality of their movies.
Also an allegation that critics have been paid to give good ratings
doesn't account for the box office that these properties make -- unless
the studio is going to go as far as people only believe a movie is good
because a critic tells them it is.
+Holli B. the sad thing is, the "buy" argument is being usewd with people who liked the movie, defended it, and praised it, but liked Cap3 more.
so it makes no sense to say they were bought because they defended it, and gave good reviews!
+Marcos Danilo I also find the argument baffling!
Couldn't have said it better! Great vid!
I think the comic book movie fatigue will happen regardless of the quality of the movies produced. I always recall what Simon Pegg said about how this obsession with Comic book movies is actually infantilizing and dumbing down the industry and our culture in general - and I completely agree. I just hope that what happens with the movie industry will not mirror what happened with the video game industry in 1983.
+Carlos Fernandes That is probably true.
but... but.... but.... grace said bvs is a masterpiece!!
hahahaha
+dvest_slack_rs it is imo.
+dvest_slack_rs That stupid bitch, seriously. Every time I've watched one of her videos I regret adding to her viewcount.
She's an absolute moron. Can't believe so many nerds watch her channel. Not a real critic, just a fangirl trying to get as many views as possible
She's an idiot. It's the same woman who had absolutely no problems with the ghostbusters trailer and said it was going to look fun. And now started stirring shit up about Disney bribing critics because God forbid her opinion is wrong. She's no pro at what she does. Even in her regular reviews that I've stumbled before she has a rather amateurish way to express herself and get her point across. There's a lot of repetition in her sentences and she finds herself making the exact same points more than once. Clearly she's not a film bluff but some chick who decided to pick up a camera and make reviews for the lols.
+Fractorification Apparently she is a comic book writer...but I don't give a shit.?She's crap at what she does on UA-cam. You're right, she is amateurish. Somehow has 1/2 million subscribers
Vince McMahon and the entirety of the WWE needed to hear what was said at approx 7:58 or so. They were the top dog, but they became the only game in town after the McMahons bought out WCW and ECW
Marvel has nothing to worry about. It's the MGMT behind WB/DCEU that has to go. They chose to shoehorn everything possible into BvS that it backfired. From the Frank Miller influences to the premature death of Superman BvS was just a clusterf*ck from the idea phase.
Instead of something Avengers'esque, DC gave us something convoluted and uninspiring with a huge helping of lack of levity. Of course both universes should work well, but don't hate Marvel for actually taking the time to flesh out their characters before they got to the big event, which DC should damn well have done.
Good video. I think there may be an expectation but I don't think that is a matter of bias. Bias suggests prejudice. Then you have people like Grace Randolph who accused fellow critic John Campea of being paid off by Disney/Marvel. Despite the fact John Campea said he saw BvS 4 times and is one of the few who liked it. I actually liked Man of Steel but was disappointed by BvS. I love both Marvel and DC properties. I want them both to do well.
Still in anticipation for the Sony videos... still, great vid btw
+Guypersonmanthing3 Not far away now!
+Midnight's Edge remember bio of rothman too.
Thank you. You have nailed that on the money & restored a great deal of my faith in humanity. Some of my favorite Podcast personalities let me down by proliferating a lot of these inane allegations. I was starting to think I was the only person staring at a naked emperor.
GHOSTBUSTERS 2016 is much closer to the naked emperor than BvS; just look at the "reviewer" response vs audience response to GHOSTBUSTERS 2016.
Midnight's Edge...I consider you the Marvel of the You Tube channel community. Another great video and so accurate. The DC fanboys think that when we criticize BvS and Zack Snyder that we are hating on DC. What they don't realize is people like myself love both Marvel and DC. It's like you said, Marvel has it's shit together and puts out a consistently great product no matter the character while DC is still struggling with only Batman being it's most consistently successful franchise. Even in BvS, the main thing people liked about the film was Ben Affleck's performance as Batman and I agree that, despite some of things he was required to do in the film, his performance was really good. We criticize out of love for these characters and the desire to see them done right on the big screen. Zack Snyder was and is a poor choice to head the DCU and should be replaced by someone who understands the material and, more importantly, cares about the material and wants to do it right.
+Reginald Lee Snyder doesn't know how to connect with audiences and he is a poor storyteller (and I'm someone who actually likes MoS). To do Superman right you need a storyteller whose films have heart and charm.
+Reginald Lee The best thing was when he pointed out that some critics (and most of the audience in general) don't even know the difference between a DC and a Marvel movie. The ironic thing is that Marvel is currently doing all the heavy lifting for the other studios. If not for them, Deadpool would have most likely never been greenlit and only got half as much attention as it did, because they were the ones who ensured that the audience is even THAT interested in comic book movies in the first place. Without Marvel, there wouldn't be DC universe, Warner would have shrugged after Man of Steel and moved forward to something else, and the Wonder Woman movie would still be in the same development hell it languished in for more than a decade beforehand. At this point, I have only two wishes: The Warner gets their sh... together and finds someone who is good in writing characters and structuring stories to helm their universe and that Fox makes a deal with Marvel and gives them the F4 rights back (they can keep the X-men for all I care).
+THEremiXFACTOR I agree. Tim Burton's Batman films were a bit dark but even his films had humor in them. Like when the Joker gets frustrated by all the press being given to Batman instead of him. The Joker says this funny line "What kind of a world do we live in where a man dressed as a bat gets all my press? then he pauses and says" This town needs an enema!" and toots a horn twice. That was hilarious. Or when Jack Napier shows up at Grissom's office after becoming the Joker and says, after killing Grissom, ""Ah, what a day!" Or when the Joker interrupts a news broadcast to advertise his new "Smilex" product complete with three dead people who had been killed by Smilex. I know that sounds awful but you have to see it to know why its funny. But my point is that Tim Burton's Batman was a dark film but was still funny through the use of morbid or dark humor. That way the film had humor but never loses it's dark edge.
+swanpride Man, I hope I can live long enough to finally see a good Fantastic Four movie. I hope that Marvel gets the rights back to Fantastic Four also.
That is an excellent point in regards to wanting DC to succeed. Quality in variety is necessary to maintain it in the cultural zeitgeist.
great video but I'm still waiting for more ghost busters news
+court of owls It's coming, but you are going to have to wait a while longer. Got a number of other videos to release first, but some of those involve Sony, so there is that.
+Midnight's Edge; heh, it's like Sony exists to make careers for critics and historians. Not saying they don't deserve it, but can they do anything right?
+Midnight's Edge Are you going to do a video about Star Trek Beyond' s troubled production history? Whether or not the movie succeeds or fails, the lead-up to it's release has been... Unusual to say the least, and is worth a look.
Simmons8519 Yeah, that is one the to-do list.
Awesome!
No. If you read this comment before watching the video, I saved you ten minutes.
The "bias" theory doesn't work, because I _know_ I'm not influenced by critics. They've never kept me away from seeing a single movie I wanted to see. I like some movies that the critics (and most of the general audience) HATED. For example, I love _Tusk,_ which is supposed to be one of the worst movies of all time. I like the two Tim Story Fantastic Four movies that the whole fan community still shits on. I like the Affleck _Daredevil_ (Director's Cut). Hell, I almost liked _FANT4STIC,_ until it took a horrible turn halfway through. I like _The Spirit._ I LOVE TDKRises more than any critic I've ever seen.
Things were different when people got their information from only 3 to 7 major broadcast/cable news networks on TV, or about 12 major print publications. Now, I watch none of that shit, and the only people I listen to about comic-based movies are knowledgable comics geeks and film buffs. And even then, I usually have my mind made up whether or not I see a movie BEFORE I watch reviews. I generally see ALL the CBM's, except I'm not too crazy about X-men movies. They're good, but . . . just not my thing.
I'm not into the outdated "sheeple" concept. I _don't_ think most people just "jump on the bandwagon". I think most people DO think for themselves.
+Ben Culture First of all, arguing "I don't listen to critics, so critics can't be biased" might be one of the dumbest things I've read all day. I get that you're saying you don't pay attention to critics, and that's fine, but that's not related to the argument anyone is making. The video is about the critics themselves being biased towards Marvel films, being willing to give them more leeway and ignore potential flaws. That argument is neither supported nor disproven by anyone saying whether they're influenced by critics or not.
Second, and I'm sad to admit this, most people still pay attention to what people tell them. So if you have 10 critics that tell you a movie is a good, most people will watch it. Same as if you have 10 people that say a movie is shit, most people won't watch it. I don't listen to critics either, but I don't have nearly as much faith in humans as you. The popularity of shows like Keeping up with the Kardashians, and Here Comes Honey Boo Boo tells me all I need to know about humans ability to think for themselves.
Marvel have a vision, DC wants to have what Marvel have without the effort.
+Jaguar Paw and i want you to use your brain before you touch your keyboard next time
+Ekene Okere I am only being objective buddy. They have a plan which started in 2008 all the way 2020, at least. They have their own studio, while DC movies are actually Warner Brothers' movies (Thus DC themselves have very little to no input regarding the movies) They have segmented their movies into phases. They have an overseer of the entire Cinematic Universe - Kevin Feige. I can go on and on.
yeah if you understood everything they did prior to the studio starting you would understand why they cant (and shouldnt) jump straight into a studio themselves. DC have that luxury, Doing that would be "rushing" it. Saying they want to have what marvel has without any effort is a lazy ill thought out and quite frankly cliched thing to say.
Marvel have a lot of goodwill which means everything they do is interpreted good, the problem is when that good will of some fans becomes "protectionism" and they start attacking percieved enemies of the studio.
People saying what you said there are among the worst offenders and represent a huge part of the problem people have with marvel fandom.
+Ekene Okere the whole of BvS was an effort to set up an Extended Cinematic Universe. What took Marvel 6 movies to do they (DC/WB) tried in one movie. Look at how it turned out? They should have taken their time and focused on developing their CU rather than rushing it. That seemed very desperate to say the least.
You May not realise this but they have set things up, BVS is essentially batmans reintroduction, the wonder woman movie is coming too and then after that you get a Justice league movie, so you would have got movies essentially on superman, batman and wonder woman before you have a justice league movie, if you stopped seeing everything with marvel blinkers you would realise they arent rushing to a justice league movie, there would have been 4 movies prior to it.
People who believe there's an anti-DC/pro-Marvel agenda among critics are overly sensitive fanboys. They just need to accept that Zack Snyder is bad director who shouldn't be spearheading DC movies.
+Galactic Specter He's a good visual director, but story-telling isn't his strong suite. Zack Snyder should be a cinematographer and not a director.
+Hub Pie That would probably be a better spot for him, actually
+Hub Pie Cinematographer indeed. This is why I'm eager for Afflecks "The Batman".
just wanna point out that, if sony can pay critics for good reviews for shitbusters 2016 than anything is possible at this point.
73% with a certified fresh on it, for a "okay" movie and that does not fabricated to you? plus this wasn't the first time they did this. www.cbsnews.com/news/sony-pays-for-fake-reviews/
but keep insulting though... cause that's all you got.
Star Wars 7 rotten tomatoes And meta critic reviews scores have always puzzled me🙈🙉🙊
+Danny Darville
You're not the only one.
+Danny Darville why have those ratings puzzled you? it was a great film...
no... no it's not.
I think after the prequels. People just wanted something, Anything that was better. So it was easy to settle with Star Wars 7.
Lone432345
That's really setting the bar low. Fans should be getting better movies. They're just remaking the old trilogies to fit their pc narratives now.
It tears me up inside to see how the DC Cinematic Universe has turned out so far. I want to see the DC movies become just as successful as Marvel's. It'd be great to have 2 good comic book movie universes instead of just 1. So please DC, stop making bad movies. God, I hope Suicide Squad is good!
I don't think Marvel will have to worry about fatigue, the way Winter Soldier, Guardians, and Ant-Man spun away from superhero into other genres: spy/political thriller, space opera/outlaws, heist, would suggest they know there are ways to make superhero movies without them being considered only in the superhero genre, and heck Dr. Strange is on the way. If all their movies were to be only Avengers type formula forever then perhaps fatigue might set it but that seems very unlikely to be the case now for Marvel.
DC on the other hand is probably going to be bible thumping Superman in audiences faces as long as Snyder is at the helm. As the saying goes, if you want to convert people into atheism, force them to actually read that bible. If WB/DC wants to succeed, they need to grab the idiot beating people in the face with a bible and remove him. Not the best analogy on my part perhaps, unlike the bible for instance you can rewrite the scripts going forward and such, so you can take out the bits about approving of slavery and genocide.
They're already doing that with Batman...
Not only do both companies need the other to succeed but also they also need to provide the audience with High quality Variety. People will get bored. I actually like that the DCU is darker but they need to tighten up there scripts.
Marvel/Disney didn't need to pay off critics to trash "Batman V Superman." The film was objectively bad and was destined to get bad reviews. It's just fact. It lacks basic structure, has no real character motivation and/or development, it's visual storytelling is a mixed-bag, it has virtually no organic sense of humor, it's generally dull and the writing is just lazy with it's over-reliance on convenience, coincidence and contrivance. (And gratingly pretentious pseudo-philisophical dialog.)
It's fine if you're a super-fan and can ignore the problems or you just can look over it's flaws. But to ignore the fact that the film is obviously a wildly troubled one and invent some conspiracy-theory about how it's the victim of critic-pay-off's is just ludicrous. Everyone has those movies they like despite being bad, and that's fine... stop acting like this one is some special butterfly that can only be good just because Batman's in it.
"But the extended directors cut made it better! How could people still be trashing the movie?"
One word: MARTHA!!!
"The film was objectively bad"
* Proceeds to mention things that are subjective as proof *
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I don't really pay that much attention to critics when I go see a movie. I don't want my opinion influenced in any way; so, I hold off judging until after I see the movie.
After watching BvS, though, I agree that DC needs to get its shit together. I grew up reading DC Comics and it stings when they make a movie that isn't at par with Marvel's.
The sad thing was that Snyder had a really good movie buried inside the BvS mess. It just tried to cram too many stories and avoided post credit scenes all because the studio didn't want people to think that they were "imitating Marvel".
I know that Zac Snyder is a DC fan. But, being a fan and respecting the material are two different things.
There's no conspiracy, bat man vs superman is just a terrible movie.
Batman v Superman is terrible and that's why critics hate it, but is kinda weird how awful Marvel Cinematic Universe comedy films like Thor Ragnarok, get fresh reviews despite the comedy being not funny and damaging the dramatic stakes, it's like having everyone joke while 9-11 is happening.
It's a great movie. The hate is because of things OUTSIDE the movie. Like own views on what characters should be like, and that "Oh its not comic accurate buuuhuuuu"
I will say that Marvel's more old-school, lighthearted formula appeals to a broader range of viewers and critics alike, and in that sense it is "superior," especially from a mainstream blockbuster standpoint. Rottentomatoes tends to lump so-so reviews in with the "Rotten" pile, so that won't help divisive love-it-or-hate-it films like Man of Steel (2013) or Batman v Superman (2016). I for one enjoyed BvS, but would not recommend it to most casual movie-goers, as opposed to the best MCU films like Iron Man (2008), The Winter Soldier (2014), or Avengers (2012).
The slow, steady, methodical rhythm to Marvel's films works better from a classical blockbuster storytelling standpoint than the erratic, throw-everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach DC seems to be going with. I definitely prefer Snyder's approach to action, combat, and visuals over the repetitive, at this point, *bland* spectacle of the MCU, but there's no denying the MCU films hit every basic screenwriting beat, even if the plots themselves don't make much sense either.
+Todd Bollinger Yep, there was a 3 star review from a british newspaper that was fairly positive for MoS. Rotten tomatoes put it in the rotten pile
listen I loved batman v superman. but the story itself was rushed no arguing with that. everything was rushed. I wished they took there time with setting up the DCEU. after suicide squad it's going to justice League.... Come on.... lmao..... they should just rename DCEU to rushed dc properties.
The thing about Batman v Superman is that it wasn't rushed. In fact, the movie was pushed back from a July 2015 release.
+Z3ROTH3RT33N dawg it was rushed. the story was every where.
+Poppa Carmine I know the story was all over the place but they got an 8 month extension to work on the story. That's what makes it more concerning. They had a lot of extra time to work on it and it still came out all over the place.
+Z3ROTH3RT33N note that this movie was originally 3 or 4 hours..they had to cut a lot of scenes for theatrical release..so, maybe that's why the story feels rushed..
+Aisonic95 That's a good point but isn't any less concerning.
They got to you too!
(Kidding!)
Seriously, I have a built in DC bias and even as an unapologetic DC fanboy I have to admit the Marvel movies are better. I remember reading an article in the National Post (here in Canada) where they said that Thor 2 was a better "Superman" movie than Man of Steel was. Having seen both. I agree.
BTW, I wish Disney was paying me to say this. I could use the money. For starters, I'd buy more DC comics.
The fact that anyone actually believes this theory is ludicrous! 😂 😂 😂
The correct word would be ""hypothesis". Hypotheses are the educated guesses, while the theories are the proven bodies composed of facts, truth, and evidence.
Mr. Fedora Correct
Spot on analysis. Especially your conclusion Marvel does want DC to get their shit together. I do fear over saturation. Civil War is great but I wonder if blow back from BvS will hurt it.
I admit..i wanted both CIvil war and Batman v Superman to do great....so there would be a new era...but i admit if both movies failed..then we could say good bye to super hero genre
This is exactly the de-bunking this theory needed! In the Snowden/Assange age we live in, Disney would be unmasked within a matter of days, if not hours. And Henry Cavill, SUPERMAN HIMSELF, put it perfectly (I paraphrase): 'If DC does well, superhero movies do well, Marvel does well.' It would do nothing but HURT Marvel if they were paying off critics.
Grace Randolph has since changed her tune to suggest a pro-Marvel campaign, rather than an anti-DC campaign, insinuating that Marvel treats critics better, therefore the critic treat Marvel better (see her disgracefully unprofessional retweeting of a photo of Collider's John Campea at the Civil War premiere). This is patently untrue. Agents of Shield was critically panned, to the point that the spin-offs were cancelled. The majority of Marvel movies lie closer to the 65% 'fresh' threshold than the '85/90% 'incredible' threshold. And Campea himself gave Jessica Jones, which was otherwise pretty universally praised, a 3/10!
Grace Randolph's nothing more than a conspiracy theorist. Her and her disciple-like fans should retreat to the murky depths whence they came.
There is only one Julian Assange in this age and look what happened to him?
Dean Carter My point is, if this was happening, it would have been leaked by now. It's got nothing do to with what would happen to the leaker post-leaking (ok that was a shit sentence haha).
hughtubecube in this day and age it is more difficult than ever before. We have a social media delivery system where people can hide behind a user name and communicate in private. Deals can be struck behind closed doors and we wouldn't know it. Back in 2001, the State of Connecticut fined Sony pictures over $300,000 for a phony review. The state got involved only because a newspaper outlet divulged that the person who did the review, David Manning, did not work for them. Nowadays, there are fewer (print) news outlets, and most film critcs either work for themselves or for an Internet blog site. If a studio cut some type of deal with them, we would never know unless that critic divulged it themselves. Wistleblowers in this day and and age, like Julian Assange and Anthony Snowden are either fugitives or go to prision (the also make for bad biopics). Yes, its even harder to uncover stuff like that nowadays.
Dean Carter But you'll notice that when stuff does get leaked, it's because whatever corruption was taking place was 'bigger-than-huge' news. News that would drastically affect the world, whether we're talking stocks, political regimes, or any of that sort of thing. If we're talking about the biggest, most iconic, and most historically significant movie studio in the world paying people off, that more than certainly falls under the 'bigger-than-huge' category.
But let's be honest, we're not going to convince each-other of anything. You think I'm way too optimistic, I think you're way too cynical, and we both think the other is interpreting the evidence in the wrong manner. So let's quit while we're ahead and not involved in a pointless and protracted comments war. Shall we at least agree on that?
hughtubecube, since the advent of Wikileaks, any company that has investors and is smart enough to have a good IT department, has blocked the site from their TCIP's. I work for one and I know it (I can't even look up the name on Wikepedia). It is not as easy to expose the corruption as you might think. If it were, they we would know who all of Umberto Gonzales, Devin Faraci, and Drew McWeeny's sources are (and we don't).
Yes, you are way too optimistic. The signs are there in the posts you can read on the Internet (IMDb, Superherohype, Redit, et. al.) that there are people out there that knew there would be negative reviews months and years prior to the release of the film. That spells conspiracy and that's not good.
Say what you will about Superman Returns, I think it had the PERFECT tone to build a Universe around- Somber, not dark. That movie exemplified the not so glamorous aspect of being a Superhero.
I think it would have contrasted MCU well, and you could see most DC properties fitting that tone.
DCEU is a universe that is obsessed with Batman, so much so that it smothers any superhero that is not Batman.
Yeah but that costume was disgustingly terrible.
No. Critics aren't being bought off, DC fans are just delusional.
I honestly love these videos keep up the great work guys!
Has nobody seen Green Lantern or MOS? They are fucking terrible movies!! That's it, theres no conspiracy.
I think marvel pay critics
Allow me to return to my teenage years to explain why I want both DC and Marvel to excel.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is commonly considered one of, if not _the,_ best Star Trek series of all time. It struggled a bit to find its feet, but then it developed into a solid dramatic series, examining ideas and characters other Star Trek series never even touched.
Babylon 5 was, hands down, the best space opera TV series in history. It paved the way for todays long-form storytelling, it pioneered the use of CGI on TV, and it proved that space-based TV series that weren't Star Trek could be successful.
These two series had fundamentally similar premises - indeed, Deep Space Nine was a ripoff of Babylon 5 - and they ran at the same time, but they each went their own way, and they made each other _better._ B5's strong storytelling and performances forced DS9 to improve their own writing and pressed them to try new things in order to compete. DS9's high production values and FX setpieces forced B5 to push the envelope to compete, to do more with less and show that cheap sci-fi didn't have to be silly and campy. Competition _works,_ and it gives us the audience a better product.
I'm much more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan. I love the ideas of Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern in particular. Unfortunately, the characters and the ideas alone aren't enough; you need the stories to go with them. That's where DC keeps failing, occasional triumphs like Wonder Woman and Shazam notwithstanding. They need to step up to Marvel's challenge and start telling _great stories_ with their characters, instead of trying to change their characters into unrecognisable husks of themselves.
I am SO happy Grace Randolph is finally being treated like the joke she is and has always been. It's such a shame too because she's probably the highest-profile female UA-camr in this area and there are so few of them I want them to succeed just so we can have a more equal distribution of points of view. I don't just want to hear from men. That's one-sided and not the complete picture. So I want all kinds of people to be around here. And that's why it's such a shame she's, well, how she is. It just makes it that much harder to take women seriously for a lot of people. Is it fair? Hells no it's not. But is it true? Yeah, I think it is.
I was gonna see it until I heard it was a mess and was told to wait for the uncut BluRay release
Slave. See it cause you wanna see it. It's stupid people can't decide for themselves.
what ambient music did you use for this video? sounds really good.
I think a lot of people hold Superman and Batman to a higher standard or "level" than Marvel heroes. It's not wrong to expect the best out of DC movies, but the fact that they have had so many different incarnations and reboots of the year, it's been hard to invest in them for the long run. I know when I thought of a "superhero" I automatically thought of Superman and Batman, and for the most part still do. But when I think of a Superhero movie, I think of Marvel.
Why didn't I see Batman Vs. Superman? A huge comic book fan at work had not seen it and when I asked him why he said his friends had seen it and described it as a "convoluted mess". When the mans friends who are also huge comic book fans said that I knew it was not worth going to the theater to see.
Another factor that *may* have a bearing on reviews it that Warner Bros has a reputation for treating press and critics pretty shabbily over the years by refusing to show advanced screenings, micromanaging press events and generally treating them as though they were the enemy. Disney has always had a reputation for going out of their way to indulge critics with advanced screenings, sharing information with the press, and the like.
I fully agree and especially the end. After leaving the cinema from BvS being disappointed and what not, I really didn't want to touch anything superhero related for a while. I put the comics I was reading on hold for a couple of days, stopped playing Arkham City (first time playing it), refused to finish Daredevil or any other superhero shows on TV. I am a massive fan and a shit movie from either Fox or WB can have negative repercussions for the whole industry. So, Marvel Studio doesn't want to do that. After watching Civil War my faith in superhero movies had been renewed and I'm excited for X-Men Apocalypse.
+Danny Malzahn And when the MCU does release a mediocre movie I do quit superhero based content. But, I honestly think BvS is worse than any mediocre Marvel movie even more so when it was the first movie to star three of the most iconic superheroes ever and it is a disappointing interpretation of my favourite superheroes. Really the first movie to have Wonder Woman is a movie where she watches trailers for other movies and barely says anything. The world building the DC universe seems last minute and forced. There's more DC movies coming out in the next few years then there are Marvel. Yes the ramifications are low in the MCU but I'd rather have this then have poorly executed deaths such as Gwen Stacy, the mutants in X-Men 3 and Superman. Putting in said ramifications in the second movie is stupid. I am more attached to the characters in the Fox and MCU movies than I am of DC. The Supergirl TV show mentions Superman and that version of Superman is a better representation of Superman than the broody one note Synder verse that isn't Superman. Sure you can change characteristics in the movies but not when your characters are so universally known that non comic book fans can highlight what Superman is. In fact Marvel has a better characterisation of Superman with Captain America than Synder does.
+Danny Malzahn Also what is the point of killing off Superman and then hinting that he is alive again ten minutes later. That is not showing ramifications of the universe, that's shoehorning in a well known arc just because it's dark. And dark is always better apparently. His death was so cliché. The Russos don't kill people off for this reason unless they know the actor or character will not be used again. They know nobody really dies in comics and want to waste screen time reviving a character. There was no tension because of his death.
+Danny Malzahn That's fair I see where you are coming. I don't like unorthodox view on traditional characters. I genuinely like the Supergirl show more than BvS. Because the movie looks pretty doesn't mean it's good in my opinion. I prefer ramifications being played out rather than sudden death after one movie and one movie where he was there for ten minutes and didn't add to the plot. I had no emotional attachment to this broody Superman because of no character development at all. Why did he still think that killing is fine after the ramifications of killing Zod and his sudden grief afterwards? I would have thought afterwards he would make a vow not to kill. I cared for Gandalf because he had actual dialogue and development. I actually liked Man of Steel where he has some hope and actually smiled. The Doctor in Doctor Who taught he was the last of his kind for a while but he didn't brood like an ass hole. Superman is more of a human and that doesn't justify this. I prefer characters like Hawkeye and War Machine who had more screen presence and it wasn't their movies. You do know that Spiderman is like in the comics right? The co-creator of Punisher absolutely hates BvS because of the very reason of these characters being nothing like their origins of why people sympathise with these characters. These are characters we inspire to and how to do things. And even in a world that is still fucked we need a symbol of hope not Batman with superpowers. That's why I thought the motives was completely contradictory between the two "main" characters. Let's agree that we have different opinions and end this discussion. If I don't like Suicide Squad (which I've been more hopeful about than BvS since the start) and Wonder Woman (which I'm excited about as she's awesome that the right director can handle this correctly) I might give up on the DCEU and stick to the TV universe.
+Danny Malzahn To add I'm not saying Batman is a bad superhero. He's my favourite DC hero because of his perseverance to sticking up for the little guy and not resorting to the cheap ways like any other man would. He again is someone we inspire to. And Wonder Woman shows what women can do if she sets their mind to it. Yes times have changed since these characters' introduction but justice is not resorting to the worst scenario possible. Additionally times haven't changed so much that we should give up on all hope and abandon everything. We need that more than anything now. I heard that Robin killed as well before Jason Todd's death, that gives no reason for Batman to kill.
Another way to avoid fatigue is to stop making solo movies after they hit there trilogy mark. I don't want to see another Captain America, Ironman or Thor SOLO movie after Civil War and Ragnarok. The characters can still exist in the team Avengers movies, but the solo's should move in a different direction with Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Antman/Wasp.
The Internet seems to love conspiracy theories in general. There are a lot of UA-camrs who think there's a massive conspiracy to cover up that the Earth is -- I kid you not -- flat.
age of ultron iron man 3 and Thor 2 were the worst marvel movies obviously
Do you see the possibility at one point of Marvel telling DC behind curtains to get their shit together in order to keep the genre alive? That would be funny! Btw Great video!
+JR. Lopez Thanks, and as a matter of fact - yes, I do see that possibility. I'd be actually surprised if that hasn't happened already. The higher ups hang out in many of the same circles.
Excellent video. Fact is, Marvel, DC, and future competitors need to have their ships tight in order to profit. Otherwise, they all will lose.
I think it's simple. If you write an engaging story, have characters that you make me care about, pepper in some laughs, have a great director / cast you're set. Oh, and don't spoil the entire movie via trailer... To me this is the equation to Marvel's success.
when the avengers released, the dark Knight rises was the only movie to compete and it also generated $1 billion
The value of a critic's opinion really shouldn't be held at that high a premium. It's nice to have their approval, and sometimes they provide legit critique's, but if on is making a movie with a certain base is mind then it's the opinion of those the movie is made for that should be given serious consideration (though slobbering fanboys who can see no fault should be treated with skepticism).
Like you said, goodwill and expectations are far more explanatory than some kind of hate boner for DC. Marvel Studios can take characters few remember, let along like, then turn them into household names while DC is stumbling to make coherent movies not about Batman.
Actually, a better contrast would be between Deadpool and Batman vs. Superman. Working within a budget forced those behind Deadpool to get creative while BvS had a massive fortune thrown at is and Zack Snyder was the overindulgent, vapid ass he normally is.
Some of these critics are not even journalists. Who the hell is Jeff Stuckmann and why is he considered a top critic? You can't rely or truly respect a critics opinion because there is no real validity or authority behind it.
Payed-Off? No. Biased. Hell yes. Civil has many of the elements people trash BvS for. But "it's Marvel so LOL it's awesome!"
There is no reason, absolutely NO REASON BvS should be sitting at a damned 28% on RT. BvS is far more ambitious, layered and well made than say, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor 2 or Ant-Man. But because BvS is different than what critics are used to, it gets slammed.
Please do a video on the career trajectory of Zach Snyder. He flew under the radar for years until he was in his late thirties. He has one writing credit before directing Day of the Dead. I will never forgave him for sprinting zombies.
All very well reasoned arguments.
It occurs to me that the idea that critics -- or critical response in general -- hold major sway over public perception is a major part of the basis of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead.
That is the truth love you narration dude.