Snyder never knew the DC characters at all. He interjected his warp view of the characters & produced a mess. Superman wasn't a wimp, Batman wasn't a murderous brute & Luthor wasn't the Riddler.
Was it this site that said Jesse Eisenberg was orginally cast as the Riddler. But when they changed it to a Luthor, he refused to change the character.
nope. Eisenberg is one of those actors who play the same character throughout his previous movies, the same goes for those SNL actors. i mean, just watch Now You See Me, American Ultra, Zombieland, and BvS. to me, he plays the same character/the way he acts is the same. idk, maybe its just me, haha. but still, no for Joker.
Hanif Halimi A friend of mine once told me that Jesse Eisenberg always comes across to him as someone whose having a panic attack. I should also mention that Jesse Eisenberg had a lot of anxiety during the 2015 DC films comic-con panel.
Utkarsh Pandey Which is what ticks me off. Marvel took a huge risk and it is paying off. They have been planning the MCU since I think '05-'06 and took all that time, energy, and money to make a batch of films that people are happy to watch all them -though I love Wright and wanted to see his Ant Man-. DC is trying to cram 7(?) heroes, only two of them mainstream. into 3 movies when it took Marvel 5 (none of them popular) to do the same. When Iron Man came out, most people expected it to be a shlocky superhero film like X-Man 3 and Spiderman 3 and were extremely surprised at how good it was. And most importantly, most didn't know their was a planned sequel. For a lot of people it wasn't until Thor and Captain America was announced that comic book fans told people that the Avengers were on the horizon.
Utkarsh Pandey What is so sad is that it seems that they should. Marvel started with their hardest to market hero and made him an icon. Or maybe the did since the did have that horrible Green Lantern movie. They should have started with WW (a movie people have been clamoring for), had movies or TV shows with the others, and after 2 Supes films ended with Batman v Superman. It would have then made sense that both LL and Bats would have info on the others then.
Yep it shows look at movies like Aquaman and Shazam everybody loves them the critics aren't eating it and Their audience isn't mixed they generally love it that's a good thing for one of others
Wha.. What, how can you ask that question? Have you not seen Man of Steel, BvS, or Suicide Squad? Have you not watched the Midnight's Edge videos about the mess that is the studio behind those movies? Sandman has been in development hell for decades, is on at least its third writer since 2000, and most importantly and unfortunately, Gaiman has little to no creative control over the project. As far as I see it, the best case scenario is that they go for a tv adaptation and end up with a show like Lucifer, a show that is good in its own right but doesn't share anything with the actual lore besides a sentence of premise and a handful of names. I think Sandman deserves better than either of those, being yet another mess of a movie in a now line of movie messes or an In Name Only tv show regardless of it being good or bad in its own right.
BatNapalm you are damn right. I am sick and tired of everybody insisting that every comics or cartoon needs a live-action adaptation. Somethings do not translate well across mediums.
***** The worst example is The Last Air bender. Why did that need to be an adaptation? It should have been a separate adventure on the big screen with the characters we all know. It should never have tried to directly lift the plot from the show, or give us nothing but exposition. It was a complete waste of time. Sandman can only be read. You lose a lot when you translate it to motion pictures.
DC on film is dead. Too little, too late. They should just reboot entirely. Accept their losses, never catch Marvel, and blame themselves for sucking up (to evil Hollywood) and thus fucking up (the DC universe). More movies will just make this problem worse. Cannot be fixed. You lose, WB. Price you pay for being greedy and stupid. Reboot, go back years, miss the superhero cash-craze. Your fault. Fuck you WB/DC. You screwed up everything beyond repair. Even if you make "good movies" NOW, they are built on a flawed foundation, flawed universe. Even if Superman is "done right" in future films, he's still a murderer of millions in this unverise. Can't be fixed. DC is dead.
Spiderman should've proven by now that rebooting doesn't solve jack unless you understand your characters and have long term plans for them (rather than making individual films one after the other).
Oh, it can be at least salvaged. Just have a _Booster Gold & Blue Beetle_ movie where they accidentally alter the timeline repeatedly until it's so incomprehensibly bad that they just bug out to another universe, leaving the deeply screwed universe to be used as villains at a later date. Starring Nathan Fillion and Alan Tudyk. Featuring Ray Fisher as Cyborg on a special mission to figure out where the hell his movie went, and Ryan Reynolds as Green Lantern, a deadpan straight-man who's always chewing BG & BB out for being unprofessional screw-ups who need to take this superhero thing more seriously, dammit.
If WB spent more time watching their own DC animated series and in-off movies they might have gotten a better grip on what makes fans tick. Granted, some of the material is a bit too kid-oriented (not entirely a criticism--kids are their target audience) but they've been known to touch on some fairly important themes and hit most of the right notes. And their voice casting has been largely excellent. The screen casting...not so much.
How is Superman a "murderer of millions" in these films? They have far too much invested in the universe to reboot. "Hey, Ben, look, we know we contracted you to direct The Batman, but, well, some people on the internet didn't like BvS. So despite being an Oscar winning director, we're gonna have to just pay you millions of dollars to NOT direct and star in this movie." You're living in a fantasy world.
I don't know that the DC movie universe can be fixed, because the problems are both within Warner Brothers and DC itself. Geoff Johns can say that DC is about hope instead of being dark and gritty, but Johns himself is part of DC's "dark and gritty" focus. For many years, the joke has been that DC's idea of light, bright, and hopeful is nothing but moving from "pitch black" to "really dark". Welcome to the lighter DC universe, now with half the maimings!
THANK YOU. I remember when he came out with CRISIS events every other month to shove his Superboy Prime character down our throats and every other issue has him brutally killing characters, all while saying that THINGS WILL SOON BE BRIGHT AND HOPEFUL AGAIN...and yet it never does. And God help you if you're a Teen Titan reader through that whole shit, since they got it the worst. Johns is just as much of a problem as Didio and he needs to go.
I would write in a scene where they save some young children and one of them says, "Thanks, Kid Flash!" and Cyborg nearly breaks his armor laughing so hard.
Cinematic Universes are nice and all, but when movies are more concerned building other movies they end up not being movies, but overblown TV-episodes.
Sell the DC film rights to Marvel Studios. Give those guys a shot. Perhaps they can do the Justice League characters justice (see what happened there?) and place them in compelling films that humans can enjoy.
Not in a million years . No recasting , no nothing - this isn't FOX OR SONY owning one character or property , it's WB owning everything DC - DC just needs new management with Geoff John and no studio meddling
They will keep making the films as long as it is turning a profit, if it doesn't generate a billion is it a disappointment, but it will still have a fan base, and the criticism is pretentious and largely useless. Nothing good comes out of negative press, as it keeps studios bound to bloggers who never made a film, do not have to answer to producers.
for me the problem is that the movies are boring and the characters aren't compelling enough for me to get invested in the story. I just don't care. These reinvention of tyese established characters seems pointless. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Further troubling the issue is that there are not too weighty actors posted in Justice League (largely novices fill out the Roster, Ray Fisher, Jason Momoa and Ezra Miller) Affleck is the only weight, with Gadot, and Cavill having to still fill out the dramatic and compelling aspects. It is very difficult to think they can carry out the roles ... we'll have to see.... fortunately, Doug Liman and JJ Abrams can develop future films for DC.
SuperOmnicron If they had anything to work with. We know that Ben Affleck wrote part of his own dialoge, like when he acts drunk and compliments a security guys shoes. Let's not forget Amy Adams, who stared in a ton of great movies. I'm looking forward to Arrival and Nocturnal Animals. Buuuut she plays Lois Lane, in a universe that doesn't know what to do with Lois Lane other than damsel in distress boredom. And Marvel also features a lot of unknown actors. The general audience never heard of RDJ before Iron Man. Even though he had "KIss Kiss Bang Bang" and Sub Zero under his belt. Same for Tom Holland, who is now Spiderman.
Yep, Snyder's version of the characters have to go or it's a waste of time and money. getting rid of him w/o tossing his continuity is pointless. if the chef poisoned your dinner, and you call the cops and have him arrested, but go on eating, you kinda deserve what's about to happen.
I think they believe since batman was a massive hit and was dark, then all other hero movies need to be dark too, that's their mistake you can't write superman like batman he's not dark. each hero should be what they are and have been for decades that made them appealing. not copy the dark gritty dark Knight series
That's part of the reason. But also, Snyder made a well recieved Superhero Movie: Watchmen. But the studio didn't understand why it was well recieved. Watchmen was a acurate adaptation of the comic. A cynical Anti-Superhero story. And Zack Snyder proceeded to make more of that.
"Watchmen" was accurate in looks only, as Snyder failed utterly to capture the themes present in the original comics written by Alan Moore. This is a guy who went to one of the same schools that Michael Bay did.
My problem was the lack of the pirate adventure comic "Tales of the Black Freighter". (and the linked psychic alien attack) Shit was awesome in the comic, was looking forward to a cinematic adaptation.
Just take the rain machine away and Zac won't know what to do. And make some scenes happen in daylight. Not every character needs to be moody and filled with angst.
If MoS showed us anything, Zach can and will make daylight scenes moody and filled with angst, even if he has to block out the sun with the debris of a few dozen skyscrapers.
I was talking about this with a friend today. DC needs to slow down and focus on smaller scale, less expensive movies that focus on a single well told story. They need to let the background of the comic dictate the tone: i.e. Batman should be dark and brooding, Superman should be hopeful and heroic, etcetera. Just be true to the comics, convey their themes earnestly, and the audience will respond.
Yes. All they need is thorough planning, good casting, writers & directors who were TRUE FANS of any DC comic material, and a budget for the production.
It's not re-scoring, it's just scoring. The change in dates from reshoots meant a timetable clash with the original composer (who had yet to do anything more than mull over a few ideas, but not actually start composing), so a different composer, who was actually available, took the job instead
They were already developed when he came aboard. He can influence in Wonder Woman in post and Justice League during the shoot, but the story, cast and sets were already locked down.
Yeah , i did read that Geoff John says there will be less Zack Snyder flourishes in the future once he starts overseeing the DCEU more - the man knows his DC stuff . Also , He knows that lightening up is not the issue that WB currently has in mind . Geoff John is also the reason why DC rebirth is such a success , hopefully with his guidance - the DCEU can be better
You're just producing upon the buzz going about. If anybody actually working on these projects, held your feet to the fire, then you'd buckle. So keep making sensational reports about the state of DC movies. You have many followers, and they like to believe you. The truth is, that the movies are what they are. If they don't do as well as Marvel, that it doesn't mean that the films were 'no good,' though only different to Marvel movies. Difference shouldn't be bias, and you need to stop reporting as though you have broad knowledge, when you know you're making this stuff up. I happen to know that you don't even like the audience that you keep serving this trash to. But there are some other speculative videos of yours that I do like. Though you and many others need to withhold on the bias that's so prominent in social media about these companies and their inspired movies. What magazine do you work for? Do you work for Variety, Entertainment Weekly, Warner, Disney? Where are your credentials?
Zach Snyder sucks anyways. Funny how he talked shit on Marvel movies (Antman in particular, though the actor who plays Bucky fired back at him via twitter, which was great), then got fired from DC for making shitty movies.
I don't see the DCEU films dark, more like they're unhappy. Sups is so miserable throughout both movies and he doesn't really have a reason (except what a messed up parenting job Jonathon Kent did). Compare this to the Deadpool movie: Wade was horribly tortured and disfigured but while it does bother him, he doesn't let it dominate every waking second of his life. He laughs, jokes, and loves; even though there are times his rage does return. If Clark smiled more, he'd seem more real to me.
Sups is miserable because no matter how hard he tries, he can't save everyone and he has haters who want him gone simply because he's an illegal alien, kind of like the real world.
FoxMikage That's why he gets sad in the comics. One of my favorite issues is a Man of Steel comic where Sups goes after the Royal Flush Gang and he demolishes them. It's told through the POV of Ten who only wishes she could hurt him. As she's being lead away in cuffs, she snaps at Sups "not EVERYBODY wants to be saved!" And that hurts Superman and when she realizes it, she is so proud of herself while she sits in her jail cell: Proud to be a criminal. I don't get that vibe from the movies. When he save people in the movies, he generally looks like he doesn't want to do it. I don't know if that was a failing on Zack Synder or the actor's part or both.
> When Man of Steel was released everyone bitched how bad it is and he made about 2 times more money than Superman Returns with 50 million smaller budget. > When BvS was released eveyone bitched how bad it is and he made more than 100 million dollars than Man of Steel with roughly the same budget. > When Suicide Squad was released eveyone bitched how bad it is and it is still making money and already surpassed MoS with much lower budget. Am I wrong or DCEU is actually working in terms of pleasing the general audience, which is basically the sole purpose of a big-budget blockbuster? Fanboys always complain about pretty much everything and guess what - nobody gives a shit.
The official line seems to be that Snyder stepped down. I like to imagine him locked in a room with a couple of hired goons working for Warner Brother with one of them saying "Mr Snyder, we think it would be better for everyone if you 'stepped down' from DC films..."
For the tune of DC they already have the perfect tune just have the movies be more like the comics. Superman is light, Batman is dark. What makes DC characters great is that each character has there own tune.
OneYuDBZSlayers I agree but zack Snyder is too dark and edgy like a teen on the computer .... If I wrote Batman he would of got raped in jail yeah that’s what the fans want zack he’s just one of those wierd types not a good idea for Batman their biggest property
I am tired of superhero movies they are all hollow and I'm gunna say it, civil war wasn't really that good. A bit of a mess to get to that one trailer scene and a weak ending that could have been avoided with words and not more punching...
+Jewasaurus Rex Or demand better superhero movies get made, and don't settle for the bullshit foisted upon the public by out of touch executives trying to use what's #trending appease shareholders instead of fans.
Civil War was a mess. It's climax was in the middle and the ending lacked the emotional punch it was aiming for. I have seen The First Cap-movie twice but can't really remember anything remarkable about Bucky or their friendship. Civil War trusts that you still have "all the feels" of it (as memes and idiots say), but to me it didn't work. Still fun and well made mess!
The Civil War storyline might have made more sense if they waited longer and spent more time building it up. It was too rushed and cramped in this movie (make room for Spider-Man! And Black Panther!).
Just look at the Wonderwoman trailer. You can see its a mess. The shot where she jumps backwards over the guy to shoot him is some of the worst SFX i've seen in such a high value production in a long time.. and that is what they chose for their first trailer? And then pay attention to the amazons helmets.. they look like they are attached to nose rings. The costume design has been done by someone that apparently has no clue what a helmet looks like, with chin guards ending and pointing inwards to the wearers nose... than look at all the different locations.. that movie has to be 3+ hours long or they just rush you through all the different locations as fast as possible. Just think of it like that.. each different 'scene' requires a set up, then they are going to do something there that is supposed to be somehow meaningful (chekov's gun) and then they need a transition to the next scene. There are a lot of different tones in that trailer with different scenes which all would require proper set ups and transitions. You have the living with the amazons scene, you have the pilot crashes scene.. you have the return to civilisation scene.. you seem to have a small conflict scene.. a large conflict scene... some love scene seems to be in there as well... all with vastly different tones and paces... how is that supposed to come together in a 2 hour movie?
You know how fanboys operate. If they can't dispute a person's criticisms, they attack the way the information is presented or claim the criticism is an exaggeration. Those are two of nearly two dozen cliches fanboys ALWAYS use to combat criticism.
People who get annoyed enough by someone's voice (something they're stuck with and can't change) to write comments about it are pathetic assholes who must not have any real problems in life. I don't see how it's any different from criticizing the way someone looks. It shows just how insecure someone is when you need to bully someone about an aspect of their biology. It's the worst of humanity.
*My version of the DCEU*: *JL Cast*: Jim Caviezel (Superman), Ben Affleck (Batman), Alexandra Daddario (Wonder Woman), Nathan Fillion (Green Lantern), Ray Fisher (Cyborg), Tom Hardy (Aquaman) and Grant Gustin (Flash · _I know, he plays in the TV show, but he doesn't play the character in the films. WB and DC could have done a paradox-type movie_) *Tone*: It doesn't need to be all funny or all dark, the tone comes to the characters. You have a brave and kind-hearted hero with a strong sense of justice (Superman), a brooding vigilante (Batman), a fierce yet loving peacemaker (Wonder Woman) and so on. *Post-Credit Trailers*: Unlike Marvel Studios (where they make the scenes to serve purpose as a teaser for one of their future movies), DC would make the post-credits scenes similar to The First Avenger's post-credits scene, which it's a sneak peek to The Avengers. Basicaly, not only would they put full-length trailers (depend on the footage, since it's still being filmed or in post-production), but DC wouldn't announce the next film nor any of their upcoming films (and who's attached, actors and director mainly, to the films) until their recently released movie comes out; basicaly making the post-credits scenes the announcement of the next movie.
Their plans for the DCU sounds a bit similar to those Sony had for Spider Man in terms of mess and desperation. I wonder why they are failing and when are they going to stop making dumb decisions.
WB doesn't know what the hell they're doing with the DCU. They never did. They got lucky a few times and tried to milk it before killing it with their own ineptitude.
If you're really a fan of New Gods or any other DC franchise you wouldn't want Warner Bros getting they're stink allover them. The DCEU is already complete shit. It's too late to fix it.
Johns CURRENTLY doesn't give me a lot of hope since his comics got stale with me a decade ago, and he was hands on with Green Lantern in an undisclosed capacity. Not to mention, he was raised in the same bubble as the people he's replacing.
Both Sony and Warner brothers are slacking. DC doesn't know what to do with it's superhero movies and Sony messed up big time with the Ghostbusters controversy
LP: They should also insure that the films respect and embrace and get closer to the source materials, none of this ridiculous pandering to the gaming crowds, they must do the stories in the comics, with the same style, tone, and spirit of the comics. None of that Nolan style nor the game style to the costumes, Batman is the grey and black, Deathstroke is the classic look, Flash should not be that terrible JL version; hire award winning writers to adapt the stories and the scripts and remember that the needs of any single director is insignificant next to the needs of the cinematic universe. If a director, no matter how talented they are, puts their 'artistic filmmaker vision' above that of the needs of the cinematic universe, refuses to set their ego aside and get with the program, then they must be replaced at once. Good luck DC.
I liked the Nolan films, especially TDR. The finale to the trilogy was a bit of a mess but still fun. But they were their own thing. Time to move on and do something else.
The only problem with this video is when you said the lighter tone was a change on the fly. If you remember Chris Terrio said before BvS even came out that BvS was going to be the darkest movie and Justice League was going to be lighter in tone. Also Zack Snyder said Superman was going to be that beacon of hope and campy Superman we know, but there was somethings he had to go thru first. At least Snyder had the guts to give Superman some character development, not the same ole boring campy guy from the start. But the lighter tone was already written and done for Justice League before BvS even came out
Lmfaoooo that open letter has already been obliterated by credible sources.. and how would WW be in trouble when they literally just finished filming the movie. A low-level employee wouldn't know shit.
Excellent work by Midnight's Edge. DC is DOA. Warner was trying to catch up all at once to Marvel Studios. They've now botched either 2 of the first 3, or all 3 depending on your opinion of SS. And that rocky start combined with the dismal Green Lantern movie from a few years ago really gives DC no future. Warner is throwing good money after bad.
As someone who didn't like either, I'll still conceded that the second cut is actually comprehensible. That first cut was surreal in how poorly edited it was.
Warner Bros. and DC are in a weird position, where they have to keep proving themselves to audiences again and again. We recorded the "Too Late for Summer Movie Spectacular" this weekend, and Dave, Jake and I had our take(s) on Justice League and Wonder Woman trailers. We were even saying that Snyder has to go. It will be out (PHRASING!) by the end of this week.
Honestly, I don't mind the dark tone that much. DC just needs to settle down and tell proper stories. Let them breathe a little. Stop cramming so much crap in there. Also, get someone in there who actually understands the Superman character. Man of Steel was a beautiful film, but totally mischaracterized Superman. He is not "Space Jesus", and he'd be the first person to tell you that he is not a god.
FINALLY !!! It took them 8 whole years to get to this point, where they should've been 20 years ago. Now I don't care how bad Wonder Woman is, I'm still going to buy the hell out of that dvd. Thanks for the updates Edge. I'll share on twitter.
Everybody begging for a 'lighter tone' is gonna be crying about the silly goof fest that said begging will result in. Anyone who's read a 'lighter toned' DC comic will tell you how f'in goofy they are. Even the ones written by good writers. What's silly and goofy in a comic will be 100 X more so in a movie. It'll be Green Lantern and Batman and Robin all over again if they get their way. Demand better writing, plot fluidity and characterisations by all means. But begging for it to be 'lighter' will not bring anything good. Believe me I've lived through all that crap.
I know it's a cliched meme at this point, but I honestly think DC should give movie rights to Marvel. There's literally no reason to think Marvel would screw it up.
It's just a movie, not better or worse than Marvel movies. Marvel movies are really dumb and have the same silly humor, even has the same plot. The only positive thing of them is the action, even at that point, I think you are too fussy waiting (or not) the same from DC. The problem is not a dark theme, it is that american writers of comic book adaptations are afraid to experiment, because executives do not like risks. When there is a good movie with good plot, you ignore it completely. The public wants things like Transformers, but complains that other films have the same silly style and no substance, for that reason you only see movies designed for children.
WB having test audiences fucked up the DCEU. Their opinions made WB edit the movies to make them worse. Suicide Squad is the worst of all the films because WB turned it into a Marvel movie.
Will you guys do a full breakdown on Summer movies of 2016? So many underperformed both commercially and/or critically that discussing what went wrong and what can be learn from your pov would be interesting.
It has been an interesting year in that regard, though there might have been hints about what was to come this year considering that there were a good amount of "shocking" flops last year.
BatmanVSuperman was indeed a shocking flop Ghostbusters on the other hand not at all maybe Sony will listen to what audiances actually want in the future.
Brandon Dozier Desn't change the fact the movie sucked but fair enough. As I said no one should be surprised that GhostBusters was a flop. Amy Pascal wanted to push her agenda rather then make the movie the fans were asking fir and was well in the works.
I'm thinking, why don't they give up already, just let Zack Snyder fuck the project into the ground, reap the small rewards, and sell the damn property.
I think WB is already trying to get the Superhero boom to die. They're obviously not going to sell to Disney but They would much prefer to go back to making "serious" old guard slice of life dramas that no one likes.
Nobody wanted a Cyborg movie. DC did that because of Black Panther at Marvel. So happy to see that disappear. If they looking for black hero its better choices. But maybe not. DC doesn't have too many.
Funny thing is that MARVEL's CIVIL WAR was a response to BvS being announced. Yet another funny thing is that not only does CIVIL WAR not feel like a rip-off, but as, Andre had previously mentioned in another video, Warner deliberately tried to kick MARVEL out of the May release by originally placing BvS' s release on the same day as CIVIL WAR's on purpose. But when MARVEL didn't back down, Warner decided the March release slot.
I kind of wish DC/Warner Bros waited with the Justice League movie. I feel like average movie goers would eventually get sick of Marvel and would like to try something new.
No, the way marvel treats heroes is the way that's work ed for thousands of years. the pandering to insecure little boys who thought Frank Miller made their comic books sophisticated adult material is what has no staying power outside of the comic shop bubble.
I'm glad Johns pointed out this melodrama that the film's have been mired in needs to stop (I had a problem with that even in TDK trilogy) though it seems from the JL trailer they're being knee-jerk about it a little. But DC is so desparate to match Marvel that they don't realize _what_ Marvel did to get it right. Yes, Iron Man was funny out the gate, but that's natural to his character and him alone. After that, Hulk was thoughtful while being causally amusing. Iron Man worked as a good production (and obscure enough not to have too many purists) and they then started laying out a schedule. When Avengers hit $1.5 billion, then they started laying out whole schedule with whatever they had and no one else was holding the film rights. Sony even botched it with their desire to have a shared universe with Spider-Man without making sure ASM 2 didn't suck first. It would have been better for DC to stop milking Suoerman and Batman and started elsewhere, maybe Flash or some other unique character, build up to the ones were so familiar with. Marvel didn't start with Cap or Hulk (even if others had made them earlier) and instead proved themselves first. They don't need to be funny like Marvel but certainly not so pretentious asNolan. Just accept what they are and play it straight.
Dani De Santa Good, because I think it would be cool to have a TEEN TITANS movie. In fact maybe even have Deathstroke as the villain as a tribute to the 2003 animated series. (Deathstroke was referred to as "Slade" in the 2003 series).
From what I heard (true or not), Deathstroke (played by Joe Manganiello) will appear not only as the main villain for the Batman solo movie, but he will appear in Justice League and the Teen Titans movie (if it ever happens)
I never,never,nevah evah(put some sass in the wording) understood as to just WHY all the DCEU characters had to all be dark ??The Flash is an up beat youngest member of the group with a shinny out look on life,Wonder Woman is a hard nosed but still optimistic woman , Lantern is a bit hard nosed too but he is not sooo serious, Batman..yeah..he is a dark character with a bit of hope in him ,Super Man is the most up beat and optimistic of all , Cyborg is not dark , Aqua Man is like Batsy .None of these characters work well in the tone Snyder had set for the DCEU ,they are not too up beat but are not also too dark .relaunch this franchise totally over again and just say BvS,MoS are an else where stories .
I feel like the DC universe could really benefit from serialized, personal accounts regarding their heroes. In the context of some of the greatest of their comics, the best circumstances presented to each hero tends to happen when they're in a vacuum. Putting them on teams confuses the mood, the narrative, and the pace since each character tends to have different versions of each of these.
I can easily see the rumors about WW being accurate. The marketing campaign is odd, and having her center on BvSM covers is suspicious. Plus, what's the movie even about? Blocking bullets with shin guards?
Lost faith in DC long ago. They think money. So does marvel but at least they got lucky in having decent producers and directors. Until leadership changes they will still under perform. Either way I won't be giving them my money. I'd wait till several reviews come out then decide. Similar to pregame buying. Let reviewers review the movie. Find a legit source then hand over your money. Never understood impatience. I do wish them the best of luck however. I do enjoy a good thought out movie. We will see. Midnight's Edge Thanks for your research. Very appreciative of that. Always an informative source.
Well, I am hopeful. Hell, the screen shot with the cast not washed out in blue-gray filters made me smile right away. Warner Brothers, they're great characters, they do not need to be focus tested in a room of grumpy teenage boys. Embrace them, because we long ago did.
Still don't understand why everyone is so salty about the movies, they weren't as bad as the so called "critics" and fanboys make them out to be. I personally loved both MoS and BvS and I know I will love SS whenever I have a chance to see it and even then I do agree with some of the complaints but feel like the majority of said complaints are just people hating for the sake of hating. yeah, so Superman isn't perfect and questioned his existence on earth, was unable to perfectly stop a villain who had the same power as himself but with more experience that wanted to destroy all of humanity, so what? So Batman after having been retired an losing a Robin thereby becoming jaded as the years went on just said "fuck it" to the bad guys and didn't care if some of them died, then his own brand was used by the true villain as way to frame even more deaths on him, so what? So Bruce finds out that the all powerful being he thought was just an alien that wanted to show off basically entrust his adoptive human mothers life in the guy that is about to kill him in a move that shows how vulnerable he really is making him realize that "hey, maybe there is more to this guy than what I've been blindly thinking" and she just so happen to have the same name, so what? So the movies are dark, it's not like there isn't a precedent for a story with a dark tone to turn around and turn light... oh wait, DC Rebirth was almost the same as how the movies were going where everything was dark and now everything is falling back into place, clearly something like that can't possibly happen at some point in the movies, right? I'm not saying that thenmovies are perfect or that they don't have their downsides, I do agree that some of it feels rushed, but from what I've been seeing so far the true problem is WB themselves who are trying everything they can to shoot themselves in the foot, especially everytime I hear about them cutting out important parts in the movies. Call me a fanboy as much as you want I don't give a fuck, but I'm not going to join the hate train and mob mentality that surrounds these movies, I enjoyed them and will keep enjoying them to my hearts content.
When it comes to fans, businesses need to just not listen to them as much as people think they should. If the fans had gotten their way, Batfleck wouldn't be a thing, Downey Iron Man/AI Jarvis wouldn't either, find out what they want at the core, and then make that but don't listen to how they'd do it, because very, very few of us fans actually know how to make a good film.
That's the other extreme. Fans have spoken. BvS was shit, but Batfleck was a good surprise. The problem is much larger: The studios are scared. That's why we get all the remakes/reboots f.e
Honestly, I never was against Affleck as I knew he was a changed man. Especially, after seeing Gone Girl and Argo. Fans sometimes really don't know better or lack the necessary hindsight. RDJ is perfect for Stark because honestly he really embodies a lot of what Stark was being depicted in the comics. When it comes to casting for Superhero movies, I tend not to disagree and more of a wait and see. For instance, Gal Gadot was okay as WW in BVS. She was more Selina Kyle and less Diana(huge fan of WW BTW), but was good. WW looks great, but I do hope it is successful. DC needs one critical success. And give it to Patty Jenkins and a movie that has color.
I agree but the simple matter is that fans make up a good chunk (still in the minority though) of a movies audience and they are the most vocal and will influence the view of other movie-goers. Say what you will about Marvels movies but they know how to please their audience. Are they perfect, no (Age of Ultron, Thor 2, Iron Man 3 come to mind) but they have done a better job at pleasing most of their audience compared to DC and WB.
Neil Ganti What were the arguments against Batfleck? I remember reading a lot of comparions to Daredevil as a reference. He was terrible in that, so he will be terrible as batman. But that's Reddit etc for you. Argo and The Town (also a great Heist movie by Affleck) didn't came up in the discussion. However, the people were right about Jesse Eisenberg in every way.
***** A lot of it was on UA-cam and even some hollywood pundits and commentators complained. But really I'm so happy for him. He's finally gotten some validation as he's a huge Batman fan and was awesome. Even during SS, the scenes he was in were great. I'm hoping the next solo film really showcases Affleck's directing and acting chops. Especially, considering Johns is on the script and they are using Deathstroke. I kind of wanted Black Mask or a take on Court of Owls, but that could always be a possibility.
The vast majority of people commenting on things like this don't understand how studios work and I can understand that. If you don't really have the knowledge or haven't looked into it you wouldn't really get it I guess. So most people think that as long as a movie makes some money it's a success. That's not the case at all. In fact, even if a movie makes tens of millions over its budget plus marketing that doesn't necessarily mean it's a success either. A film needs not only to make money but to justify its existence. That means it needs to have a profit margin that justifies putting it out in place of another movie. So if the studio has project A and project B and choose to make project A it needs to make as much or more than project B because they chose it over the other project. So if they have a new IP or Jurassic World, for example, and they choose to make the movie based on the new IP that needs to make a comparable amount of money to what Jurassic World would have brought in. Because they've shelved that other project and put their money into that new IP. So since Batman V Superman didn't make what it should have (being the first Superman/Batman joint feature it should have made Avengers money) that means that's potential profit lost. A business needs to look at how to maximize profit. That's good business. There are exceptions but generally that's how it works. That money goes into producing new features. So if a movie underperforms that's a problem because they made the movie to finance other productions. Those other productions now have less money to dedicate to them because BvS didn't produce what it should have. So just because the DC movies did make money does not make them successes. WB's standpoint is that they should have made more so they're going to make changes so they do make more. It's a business like any other so if a product doesn't make as much as it should you don't just keep it around if you have something to replace it with that will make more money. I get why most people don't get this but it's the reality and honestly most people who are commenting are very ignorant and it's not helping. You just have to understand how this works and the fact that it has to work this way because this is how more product gets made.
people are stupid to blame everything on zack snyder. Filmmaking is a team effort between many people. Yes he 'directs' the production how it looks and how it is told, yet again he did not write the full script, approve on the script, greenlit the film or even solely alone decided how the DC universe is supposed to be. In these big films it's all a studio decision, people just want a face they can point fingers to. The film isn't even as bad as many critics claim it to be. DC is trying to hard to please the crowd and have no idea what to do, so they desperately trying to do anything they think the fans want. They should get theirs hit together and focus on making god stories, a simple brighter look and more jokes doesn't make a film better.
"DC is trying to hard to please the crowd and have no idea what to do," And that about summarizes the main issue. You never make something to please others. It should be a story you believe in. The constant failing of DC is because they aren't telling stories. They are fraught with discord and inconsistencies so far by directors who don't love the properties they are presenting. You can see it with the fun that Ryan Reynolds and Taika Waititi had promoting the filming. You never see that from a DC property.
icthulu Marvel is doing the exact same thing tho. they jus re-print the same stories they know people love, with a formula that is so generic u can fall asleep at any moment, and wake up, and don't feel u missed a thing. At least one can praise DC to try to do something different with Man of steel, and BvS. But they didn't dear to do it with Suicide Squad, which is a shame. if the first two films where any good, is anther discussion, but at least u had to pay attention to understand what the films where trying to do.
MarkFilipAnthony Marvel has never reprinted a story. If you can prove me wrong, please do so. From everything I have read (comics) the stories of Antman, Guardians, Ironman, Cap, Thor, Hulk are not retold anywhere in the movies. It's the same character and they are faithful to the spirit of the character and in a fashion their origin, but none of their movies are retellings of a comic. I respect your love of DC over Marvel, but you have to acknowledge these are not cut paste movies, they put a huge amount of effort to make great movies based on the characters. The rest of your points have been argued over and over and I would like to move on from DC Marvel fighting. They exist, make your own opinion, I am not fighting that any more.
icthulu I don't like one over the other tho. I'm just stating that the marvel movies copy themselves, I don't know if they cop the comic, as I prefer gcrafic novels myself. The Marvel movie formular is pretty much the same tho. 1.Intro of plot important item 2. first battle 3.inner turmoil 4.second battle 5.final showdown 6. Cameo/post credit/hint of future film. I guess there is only a certain amount of time a character can 'almos die' and the survive in the end befor eit gets old. I know marvel didn't invent that cliche formula, but they're re-using it in almost every film, mixed with mainly forgettable villains. ........................................................ Now with only 3 films, it's hard to say what the 'DC forumla' is/will be, but mainly all of them seem to be quite different type of films. At least BvS used a 5 structured detective story, with almost a hour without a single action scene. Or Man of steel being a alien film, about first contact etc. None of them really trying to me a typical super hero film at all. ........................................................... I enjoy both marvel and DC films and characters, but one can get tired of repetitiveness in a franchise. Like in the James Bond films, or fast and furious films etc. I guess at least all Harry potter films are quite different from another lol
MarkFilipAnthony That's... A fair critique. I agree. No, they don't take chances really in terms of deviating from the 3 act structure, but they are well written and executed and polished. There's no surprises, the good guys win in the end, and it's comfortable, simple even. Also agree on the graphic novels, I like a story to have an end, comics in general are the artistic version of a soap opera where eventually it gets to the point of absurdity that you have to scrap it and start over again. Something Anime has over Western media, but Anime has some very ingrained tropes that make it insufferable.
what's sad is that I feel a lot of BvS and SS issues were brought about by studio execs stressing over reactions from the public concerning the trailers...and second guessing themselves into trying to redo/rearrange things before release
If I may say something from my own perspective about this. I am from Holland. Comics where alway distributed by a company called Juniorpress and they were the only company that had them. Every supermarket, gas-station, etc had them. The limited amount of titles Juniopress had where Spider-man, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Wolverine, sometimes Avengers, Batman and Superman. So personally I knew very little about the DC universe because I could not get to see the other DC characters unless they showed up in Batman or Superman . I also think that if in 2002 you asked anyone anywhere in the world who knew nothing about comic books to name some titles they knew it would be the same titles I named earlier. I understand that Iron man wasn't that known either. And I understand that comic book fans will know all of the DC & Marvel superheroes but given the huge budgets they are not making the movies just for the comic book heroes. I do think that already puts DC at a disadvantage.
The apologists for these 3 movies are the fucking worst. "But Man of Steel was amazing! This is a new, gritty, realistic version of Superman". Since when is destruction porn, the absence of heart and charm, highly questionable morals, and Superman needlessly murdering thousands "amazing"? "The director's cut changes everything, now the movie is really good!" Nope, it just adds pointless filler, and is as bad as it was before. "Fuck the critics, this is a movie for THE FANS. It made money, so of course it's good!" Popularity does not equal quality. By that logic, Titanic is one of the greatest movies of all time.
Titanic truly is one of the greatest movies of all times, it got 11 oscars, 4 Golden globes and a shitload of other awards, and it made over 2 billion dollars. This is a enormous success by a all means. A film being "good"or "bad" is a matter of opinion, but a film being "successful" or not is a matter of pure numbers.
One of the biggest mistakes that was done is casting Ben Affleck (aka: Daredevil) as the new Batman. The same was done when Pierce Brosnan was the new James Bond in the 90's when most people remember him as Remington Steele. If you see him as one character playing a similar role in either another movie or tv show then it sticks in the back of your mind when you watch him in a popular series or blockbuster movie. It's like imagining Arnold play the role of Robocop when everyone knows him as the Terminator...
Snyder never knew the DC characters at all. He interjected his warp view of the characters & produced a mess. Superman wasn't a wimp, Batman wasn't a murderous brute & Luthor wasn't the Riddler.
Was it this site that said Jesse Eisenberg was orginally cast as the Riddler. But when they changed it to a Luthor, he refused to change the character.
Actually originally BvS was going to have Joker and Lex, but later they decided to only have Lex, so they gave Lex Joker like behaviors....
I would actually like to see Eisenberg as the Joker, I think he could nail that character, or at least capture the vibe of him better than Leto did.
nope. Eisenberg is one of those actors who play the same character throughout his previous movies, the same goes for those SNL actors. i mean, just watch Now You See Me, American Ultra, Zombieland, and BvS.
to me, he plays the same character/the way he acts is the same. idk, maybe its just me, haha.
but still, no for Joker.
Hanif Halimi A friend of mine once told me that Jesse Eisenberg always comes across to him as someone whose having a panic attack. I should also mention that Jesse Eisenberg had a lot of anxiety during the 2015 DC films comic-con panel.
DC is playing catch up with Marvel so they are throwing out as much shit at the wall to see what sticks.
L(-_-' L)
True.
+Mixey Boy uh, no.
Am I the only one who is tired of hearing 'blank' is trying to catch up to Marvel or this movie was to be the start of a cinematic universe?
Utkarsh Pandey Which is what ticks me off. Marvel took a huge risk and it is paying off. They have been planning the MCU since I think '05-'06 and took all that time, energy, and money to make a batch of films that people are happy to watch all them -though I love Wright and wanted to see his Ant Man-.
DC is trying to cram 7(?) heroes, only two of them mainstream. into 3 movies when it took Marvel 5 (none of them popular) to do the same.
When Iron Man came out, most people expected it to be a shlocky superhero film like X-Man 3 and Spiderman 3 and were extremely surprised at how good it was. And most importantly, most didn't know their was a planned sequel. For a lot of people it wasn't until Thor and Captain America was announced that comic book fans told people that the Avengers were on the horizon.
Utkarsh Pandey What is so sad is that it seems that they should. Marvel started with their hardest to market hero and made him an icon. Or maybe the did since the did have that horrible Green Lantern movie. They should have started with WW (a movie people have been clamoring for), had movies or TV shows with the others, and after 2 Supes films
ended with Batman v Superman. It would have then made sense that both LL and Bats would have info on the others then.
Less Snyder involvement is a huge improvement on its own
Yep it shows look at movies like Aquaman and Shazam everybody loves them the critics aren't eating it and Their audience isn't mixed they generally love it that's a good thing for one of others
Please, oh please, let the Sandman adaptation get cancelled. There is absolutely no hope that they will do anything other than ruin it.
why? the creator is involved, why would u be expecting it yo fail
Wha.. What, how can you ask that question? Have you not seen Man of Steel, BvS, or Suicide Squad? Have you not watched the Midnight's Edge videos about the mess that is the studio behind those movies? Sandman has been in development hell for decades, is on at least its third writer since 2000, and most importantly and unfortunately, Gaiman has little to no creative control over the project.
As far as I see it, the best case scenario is that they go for a tv adaptation and end up with a show like Lucifer, a show that is good in its own right but doesn't share anything with the actual lore besides a sentence of premise and a handful of names.
I think Sandman deserves better than either of those, being yet another mess of a movie in a now line of movie messes or an In Name Only tv show regardless of it being good or bad in its own right.
BatNapalm you are damn right. I am sick and tired of everybody insisting that every comics or cartoon needs a live-action adaptation. Somethings do not translate well across mediums.
***** The worst example is The Last Air bender. Why did that need to be an adaptation? It should have been a separate adventure on the big screen with the characters we all know. It should never have tried to directly lift the plot from the show, or give us nothing but exposition. It was a complete waste of time. Sandman can only be read. You lose a lot when you translate it to motion pictures.
There's only one true Sandman anyway and that's Flint Marko
DC on film is dead. Too little, too late.
They should just reboot entirely. Accept their losses, never catch Marvel, and blame themselves for sucking up (to evil Hollywood) and thus fucking up (the DC universe).
More movies will just make this problem worse. Cannot be fixed. You lose, WB. Price you pay for being greedy and stupid.
Reboot, go back years, miss the superhero cash-craze. Your fault. Fuck you WB/DC. You screwed up everything beyond repair. Even if you make "good movies" NOW, they are built on a flawed foundation, flawed universe. Even if Superman is "done right" in future films, he's still a murderer of millions in this unverise.
Can't be fixed. DC is dead.
Rebooting would be worse. No one would care. Unless they do Flashpoint.
Spiderman should've proven by now that rebooting doesn't solve jack unless you understand your characters and have long term plans for them (rather than making individual films one after the other).
Oh, it can be at least salvaged. Just have a _Booster Gold & Blue Beetle_ movie where they accidentally alter the timeline repeatedly until it's so incomprehensibly bad that they just bug out to another universe, leaving the deeply screwed universe to be used as villains at a later date.
Starring Nathan Fillion and Alan Tudyk. Featuring Ray Fisher as Cyborg on a special mission to figure out where the hell his movie went, and Ryan Reynolds as Green Lantern, a deadpan straight-man who's always chewing BG & BB out for being unprofessional screw-ups who need to take this superhero thing more seriously, dammit.
If WB spent more time watching their own DC animated series and in-off movies they might have gotten a better grip on what makes fans tick. Granted, some of the material is a bit too kid-oriented (not entirely a criticism--kids are their target audience) but they've been known to touch on some fairly important themes and hit most of the right notes. And their voice casting has been largely excellent. The screen casting...not so much.
How is Superman a "murderer of millions" in these films?
They have far too much invested in the universe to reboot. "Hey, Ben, look, we know we contracted you to direct The Batman, but, well, some people on the internet didn't like BvS. So despite being an Oscar winning director, we're gonna have to just pay you millions of dollars to NOT direct and star in this movie."
You're living in a fantasy world.
I don't know that the DC movie universe can be fixed, because the problems are both within Warner Brothers and DC itself. Geoff Johns can say that DC is about hope instead of being dark and gritty, but Johns himself is part of DC's "dark and gritty" focus. For many years, the joke has been that DC's idea of light, bright, and hopeful is nothing but moving from "pitch black" to "really dark". Welcome to the lighter DC universe, now with half the maimings!
THANK YOU. I remember when he came out with CRISIS events every other month to shove his Superboy Prime character down our throats and every other issue has him brutally killing characters, all while saying that THINGS WILL SOON BE BRIGHT AND HOPEFUL AGAIN...and yet it never does. And God help you if you're a Teen Titan reader through that whole shit, since they got it the worst. Johns is just as much of a problem as Didio and he needs to go.
Wait, we're not getting _Cyborg: Booyah Begins_? Friggin' hell.
A Cyborg and Beast Boy team-up sort of buddy-cop film would be so much fun.
As a motion capture movie a la Tintin style would be great.
I would write in a scene where they save some young children and one of them says, "Thanks, Kid Flash!" and Cyborg nearly breaks his armor laughing so hard.
Cinematic Universes are nice and all, but when movies are more concerned building other movies they end up not being movies, but overblown TV-episodes.
I feel the EXACT same way!
Agree
Sell the DC film rights to Marvel Studios. Give those guys a shot. Perhaps they can do the Justice League characters justice (see what happened there?) and place them in compelling films that humans can enjoy.
stop
Not in a million years . No recasting , no nothing - this isn't FOX OR SONY owning one character or property , it's WB owning everything DC - DC just needs new management with Geoff John and no studio meddling
Lame joke
I'd like to see the guys behind the DCAU give a hand in the Cinematic Universe
JL vs avengers. yes pls.
Man of Steel was fine. Even the audience score with 75% shows that. Gamergate taught me alot about "critics".
Man of Steel is the only DCEU movie that I liked so far
Correction: 56% on RT and 55% on Metacritic. No. MOS wasn't "fine".
They will keep making the films as long as it is turning a profit, if it doesn't generate a billion is it a disappointment, but it will still have a fan base, and the criticism is pretentious and largely useless. Nothing good comes out of negative press, as it keeps studios bound to bloggers who never made a film, do not have to answer to producers.
game critics, not film critics
MoS was great. Flawed but great.
Also, Troy 54% on RT, The Perfect Storm 47%, Saw 48% and Hook 30%!
Go figure...
for me the problem is that the movies are boring and the characters aren't compelling enough for me to get invested in the story. I just don't care. These reinvention of tyese established characters seems pointless. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
They broke it and have to try to fix it.
Further troubling the issue is that there are not too weighty actors posted in Justice League (largely novices fill out the Roster, Ray Fisher, Jason Momoa and Ezra Miller) Affleck is the only weight, with Gadot, and Cavill having to still fill out the dramatic and compelling aspects. It is very difficult to think they can carry out the roles ... we'll have to see.... fortunately, Doug Liman and JJ Abrams can develop future films for DC.
SuperOmnicron If they had anything to work with. We know that Ben Affleck wrote part of his own dialoge, like when he acts drunk and compliments a security guys shoes.
Let's not forget Amy Adams, who stared in a ton of great movies. I'm looking forward to Arrival and Nocturnal Animals. Buuuut she plays Lois Lane, in a universe that doesn't know what to do with Lois Lane other than damsel in distress boredom.
And Marvel also features a lot of unknown actors. The general audience never heard of RDJ before Iron Man. Even though he had "KIss Kiss Bang Bang" and Sub Zero under his belt. Same for Tom Holland, who is now Spiderman.
Yep, Snyder's version of the characters have to go or it's a waste of time and money. getting rid of him w/o tossing his continuity is pointless. if the chef poisoned your dinner, and you call the cops and have him arrested, but go on eating, you kinda deserve what's about to happen.
WB needs to give this thing a rest, they are not good at it.
woke up this morning and there's a new Midnight's Edge video. It's a good day.
Yay. They will mess up in new and interesting ways.
Exactly Snyder is far from being the problem
I call the DCEU a steaming pile of shit thanks to Zack Snyder.
Can we just get Bruce Timm and Paul Dini to save the DC cinematic universe?
after the Batgirl fiasco in The Killing Joke?
no.
As long as they don't do the Batgirl crap again.
They are the only guys currently getting it right.
The stuff they've done with Batman is still pretty much the most successful stuff after all this time.
amen
I think they believe since batman was a massive hit and was dark, then all other hero movies need to be dark too, that's their mistake you can't write superman like batman he's not dark. each hero should be what they are and have been for decades that made them appealing. not copy the dark gritty dark Knight series
That's part of the reason. But also, Snyder made a well recieved Superhero Movie: Watchmen. But the studio didn't understand why it was well recieved. Watchmen was a acurate adaptation of the comic. A cynical Anti-Superhero story. And Zack Snyder proceeded to make more of that.
"Watchmen" was accurate in looks only, as Snyder failed utterly to capture the themes present in the original comics written by Alan Moore. This is a guy who went to one of the same schools that Michael Bay did.
My problem was the lack of the pirate adventure comic "Tales of the Black Freighter". (and the linked psychic alien attack) Shit was awesome in the comic, was looking forward to a cinematic adaptation.
Just take the rain machine away and Zac won't know what to do. And make some scenes happen in daylight. Not every character needs to be moody and filled with angst.
If MoS showed us anything, Zach can and will make daylight scenes moody and filled with angst, even if he has to block out the sun with the debris of a few dozen skyscrapers.
I was talking about this with a friend today. DC needs to slow down and focus on smaller scale, less expensive movies that focus on a single well told story.
They need to let the background of the comic dictate the tone: i.e. Batman should be dark and brooding, Superman should be hopeful and heroic, etcetera. Just be true to the comics, convey their themes earnestly, and the audience will respond.
I agree. They are focusing on emulating Marvel's success and not the years it took to get there.
Yes. All they need is thorough planning, good casting, writers & directors who were TRUE FANS of any DC comic material, and a budget for the production.
Well Batman was created to be the opposite of Superman after all.
do a vid on all the rogue one reshoots and rescoring happening!
Yeah, that is coming.
what happened to rouge one?
It's not re-scoring, it's just scoring. The change in dates from reshoots meant a timetable clash with the original composer (who had yet to do anything more than mull over a few ideas, but not actually start composing), so a different composer, who was actually available, took the job instead
Sckarton Rouge One? Maybe it needed more base? A bit more shading around the eyes? ;-)
"This Snyder director is like a one-man reign of terror."
Justice league & Wonder Woman are under Geoff John"s era if am right
They were already developed when he came aboard. He can influence in Wonder Woman in post and Justice League during the shoot, but the story, cast and sets were already locked down.
Yeah , i did read that Geoff John says there will be less Zack Snyder flourishes in the future once he starts overseeing the DCEU more - the man knows his DC stuff . Also , He knows that lightening up is not the issue that WB currently has in mind . Geoff John is also the reason why DC rebirth is such a success , hopefully with his guidance - the DCEU can be better
Era?
You're just producing upon the buzz going about. If anybody actually working on these projects, held your feet to the fire, then you'd buckle. So keep making sensational reports about the state of DC movies. You have many followers, and they like to believe you. The truth is, that the movies are what they are. If they don't do as well as Marvel, that it doesn't mean that the films were 'no good,' though only different to Marvel movies. Difference shouldn't be bias, and you need to stop reporting as though you have broad knowledge, when you know you're making this stuff up. I happen to know that you don't even like the audience that you keep serving this trash to. But there are some other speculative videos of yours that I do like.
Though you and many others need to withhold on the bias that's so prominent in social media about these companies and their inspired movies.
What magazine do you work for?
Do you work for Variety, Entertainment Weekly, Warner, Disney?
Where are your credentials?
Ah, the sound of butthurt...
Zach Snyder sucks anyways. Funny how he talked shit on Marvel movies (Antman in particular, though the actor who plays Bucky fired back at him via twitter, which was great), then got fired from DC for making shitty movies.
I don't see the DCEU films dark, more like they're unhappy. Sups is so miserable throughout both movies and he doesn't really have a reason (except what a messed up parenting job Jonathon Kent did). Compare this to the Deadpool movie: Wade was horribly tortured and disfigured but while it does bother him, he doesn't let it dominate every waking second of his life. He laughs, jokes, and loves; even though there are times his rage does return. If Clark smiled more, he'd seem more real to me.
Sups is miserable because no matter how hard he tries, he can't save everyone and he has haters who want him gone simply because he's an illegal alien, kind of like the real world.
FoxMikage
That's why he gets sad in the comics. One of my favorite issues is a Man of Steel comic where Sups goes after the Royal Flush Gang and he demolishes them. It's told through the POV of Ten who only wishes she could hurt him. As she's being lead away in cuffs, she snaps at Sups "not EVERYBODY wants to be saved!" And that hurts Superman and when she realizes it, she is so proud of herself while she sits in her jail cell: Proud to be a criminal.
I don't get that vibe from the movies. When he save people in the movies, he generally looks like he doesn't want to do it. I don't know if that was a failing on Zack Synder or the actor's part or both.
I think the DCU needs a shift of tone, but I think this is gonna be an even bigger mess :/
> When Man of Steel was released everyone bitched how bad it is and he made about 2 times more money than Superman Returns with 50 million smaller budget.
> When BvS was released eveyone bitched how bad it is and he made more than 100 million dollars than Man of Steel with roughly the same budget.
> When Suicide Squad was released eveyone bitched how bad it is and it is still making money and already surpassed MoS with much lower budget.
Am I wrong or DCEU is actually working in terms of pleasing the general audience, which is basically the sole purpose of a big-budget blockbuster?
Fanboys always complain about pretty much everything and guess what - nobody gives a shit.
I feel Wonder Woman, Justice League, or the solo Batman movie should be a soft reboot of the DCEU.
Agreed
The official line seems to be that Snyder stepped down. I like to imagine him locked in a room with a couple of hired goons working for Warner Brother with one of them saying "Mr Snyder, we think it would be better for everyone if you 'stepped down' from DC films..."
For the tune of DC they already have the perfect tune just have the movies be more like the comics. Superman is light, Batman is dark. What makes DC characters great is that each character has there own tune.
OneYuDBZSlayers I agree but zack Snyder is too dark and edgy like a teen on the computer ....
If I wrote Batman he would of got raped in jail yeah that’s what the fans want zack he’s just one of those wierd types not a good idea for Batman their biggest property
more comedy, less comedy, more dark, less dark, that accounts to nothing if the execution is flawed, DC has learnt nothing with past mistakes
I am tired of superhero movies they are all hollow and I'm gunna say it, civil war wasn't really that good. A bit of a mess to get to that one trailer scene and a weak ending that could have been avoided with words and not more punching...
Then don't go see them, there problem solved.
+Jewasaurus Rex Or demand better superhero movies get made, and don't settle for the bullshit foisted upon the public by out of touch executives trying to use what's #trending appease shareholders instead of fans.
Civil War was a mess. It's climax was in the middle and the ending lacked the emotional punch it was aiming for. I have seen The First Cap-movie twice but can't really remember anything remarkable about Bucky or their friendship. Civil War trusts that you still have "all the feels" of it (as memes and idiots say), but to me it didn't work.
Still fun and well made mess!
The Civil War storyline might have made more sense if they waited longer and spent more time building it up. It was too rushed and cramped in this movie (make room for Spider-Man! And Black Panther!).
Just look at the Wonderwoman trailer. You can see its a mess. The shot where she jumps backwards over the guy to shoot him is some of the worst SFX i've seen in such a high value production in a long time.. and that is what they chose for their first trailer? And then pay attention to the amazons helmets.. they look like they are attached to nose rings. The costume design has been done by someone that apparently has no clue what a helmet looks like, with chin guards ending and pointing inwards to the wearers nose... than look at all the different locations.. that movie has to be 3+ hours long or they just rush you through all the different locations as fast as possible. Just think of it like that.. each different 'scene' requires a set up, then they are going to do something there that is supposed to be somehow meaningful (chekov's gun) and then they need a transition to the next scene. There are a lot of different tones in that trailer with different scenes which all would require proper set ups and transitions. You have the living with the amazons scene, you have the pilot crashes scene.. you have the return to civilisation scene.. you seem to have a small conflict scene.. a large conflict scene... some love scene seems to be in there as well... all with vastly different tones and paces... how is that supposed to come together in a 2 hour movie?
Midnight's Edge is my all time favourite channel on You Tube!
Future DCCU films might be good movies by themselves, but the series as a whole has already been ruined by what WB has put out there.
Here comes the "his voice is so boring" comments and the "LIAAAR!!!" accusations...
You know how fanboys operate. If they can't dispute a person's criticisms, they attack the way the information is presented or claim the criticism is an exaggeration.
Those are two of nearly two dozen cliches fanboys ALWAYS use to combat criticism.
People who get annoyed enough by someone's voice (something they're stuck with and can't change) to write comments about it are pathetic assholes who must not have any real problems in life. I don't see how it's any different from criticizing the way someone looks. It shows just how insecure someone is when you need to bully someone about an aspect of their biology. It's the worst of humanity.
Cant wait for The Phantom (1996) retrospective!
...which is about to enter development right now.
Yusss!
AFFLECK WAS THE BOMB IN PHANTOMS
I love that movie!
*My version of the DCEU*:
*JL Cast*: Jim Caviezel (Superman), Ben Affleck (Batman), Alexandra Daddario (Wonder Woman), Nathan Fillion (Green Lantern), Ray Fisher (Cyborg), Tom Hardy (Aquaman) and Grant Gustin (Flash · _I know, he plays in the TV show, but he doesn't play the character in the films. WB and DC could have done a paradox-type movie_)
*Tone*: It doesn't need to be all funny or all dark, the tone comes to the characters. You have a brave and kind-hearted hero with a strong sense of justice (Superman), a brooding vigilante (Batman), a fierce yet loving peacemaker (Wonder Woman) and so on.
*Post-Credit Trailers*: Unlike Marvel Studios (where they make the scenes to serve purpose as a teaser for one of their future movies), DC would make the post-credits scenes similar to The First Avenger's post-credits scene, which it's a sneak peek to The Avengers. Basicaly, not only would they put full-length trailers (depend on the footage, since it's still being filmed or in post-production), but DC wouldn't announce the next film nor any of their upcoming films (and who's attached, actors and director mainly, to the films) until their recently released movie comes out; basicaly making the post-credits scenes the announcement of the next movie.
Their plans for the DCU sounds a bit similar to those Sony had for Spider Man in terms of mess and desperation. I wonder why they are failing and when are they going to stop making dumb decisions.
WB doesn't know what the hell they're doing with the DCU. They never did. They got lucky a few times and tried to milk it before killing it with their own ineptitude.
If you're really a fan of New Gods or any other DC franchise you wouldn't want Warner Bros getting they're stink allover them. The DCEU is already complete shit. It's too late to fix it.
Johns CURRENTLY doesn't give me a lot of hope since his comics got stale with me a decade ago, and he was hands on with Green Lantern in an undisclosed capacity.
Not to mention, he was raised in the same bubble as the people he's replacing.
Both Sony and Warner brothers are slacking. DC doesn't know what to do with it's superhero movies and Sony messed up big time with the Ghostbusters controversy
LP: They should also insure that the films respect and embrace and get closer to the source materials, none of this ridiculous pandering to the gaming crowds, they must do the stories in the comics, with the same style, tone, and spirit of the comics. None of that Nolan style nor the game style to the costumes, Batman is the grey and black, Deathstroke is the classic look, Flash should not be that terrible JL version; hire award winning writers to adapt the stories and the scripts and remember that the needs of any single director is insignificant next to the needs of the cinematic universe. If a director, no matter how talented they are, puts their 'artistic filmmaker vision' above that of the needs of the cinematic universe, refuses to set their ego aside and get with the program, then they must be replaced at once. Good luck DC.
I liked the Nolan films, especially TDR. The finale to the trilogy was a bit of a mess but still fun. But they were their own thing. Time to move on and do something else.
Graham Strouse With the creation of DC Films there's a chance, but it's still wait and see...
The only problem with this video is when you said the lighter tone was a change on the fly. If you remember Chris Terrio said before BvS even came out that BvS was going to be the darkest movie and Justice League was going to be lighter in tone. Also Zack Snyder said Superman was going to be that beacon of hope and campy Superman we know, but there was somethings he had to go thru first. At least Snyder had the guts to give Superman some character development, not the same ole boring campy guy from the start. But the lighter tone was already written and done for Justice League before BvS even came out
Lmfaoooo that open letter has already been obliterated by credible sources.. and how would WW be in trouble when they literally just finished filming the movie. A low-level employee wouldn't know shit.
Excellent work by Midnight's Edge.
DC is DOA. Warner was trying to catch up all at once to Marvel Studios. They've now botched either 2 of the first 3, or all 3 depending on your opinion of SS. And that rocky start combined with the dismal Green Lantern movie from a few years ago really gives DC no future. Warner is throwing good money after bad.
I feel really weird, because i actually really liked the ultimate cut from BvS
As someone who didn't like either, I'll still conceded that the second cut is actually comprehensible. That first cut was surreal in how poorly edited it was.
Warner Bros. and DC are in a weird position, where they have to keep proving themselves to audiences again and again. We recorded the "Too Late for Summer Movie Spectacular" this weekend, and Dave, Jake and I had our take(s) on Justice League and Wonder Woman trailers. We were even saying that Snyder has to go. It will be out (PHRASING!) by the end of this week.
Can't wait to see it :)
Meanwhile DC has killed Marvel in comics sales and animated movies.
Deusirae79 indeed, their animated movie are better than the live action
Not in my book, it's not even comparable.
Deusirae79 assault on arkham is better than Suicide Squad for example
Honestly, I don't mind the dark tone that much. DC just needs to settle down and tell proper stories. Let them breathe a little. Stop cramming so much crap in there.
Also, get someone in there who actually understands the Superman character. Man of Steel was a beautiful film, but totally mischaracterized Superman. He is not "Space Jesus", and he'd be the first person to tell you that he is not a god.
lol typo 'justice leage'
Damn!!! Sorry about that.
Midnight's Edge nah its fine. Thought u might want to know
+Midnight's Edge: As someone who has long despised Zack "SUCKER PUNCH" Snyder, I couldn't be happier about the restructuring!
FINALLY !!! It took them 8 whole years to get to this point, where they should've been 20 years ago. Now I don't care how bad Wonder Woman is, I'm still going to buy the hell out of that dvd. Thanks for the updates Edge. I'll share on twitter.
Right now The DCEU just feels like that knock off cereal that your mom always buys.
All I hope is that Geoff Johns undo the damage that Zack Snyder has done.
Snyder is the worst thing to happen to the DCEU. If he truly isn't out, then I hope he will be very soon.
Shane Hamilton Hope and pray.
Everybody begging for a 'lighter tone' is gonna be crying about the silly goof fest that said begging will result in. Anyone who's read a 'lighter toned' DC comic will tell you how f'in goofy they are. Even the ones written by good writers. What's silly and goofy in a comic will be 100 X more so in a movie. It'll be Green Lantern and Batman and Robin all over again if they get their way. Demand better writing, plot fluidity and characterisations by all means. But begging for it to be 'lighter' will not bring anything good. Believe me I've lived through all that crap.
Snyder needed to be gone long ago. But we'll see what happens with Wonder Woman and Justice League. Hopefully, it won't be 0-5.
I know it's a cliched meme at this point, but I honestly think DC should give movie rights to Marvel. There's literally no reason to think Marvel would screw it up.
Not Marvel,Disney
Well to be fair every point in the open letter for WB was disproven by multiple articles like on birth movie death and other articles
It's just a movie, not better or worse than Marvel movies. Marvel movies are really dumb and have the same silly humor, even has the same plot. The only positive thing of them is the action, even at that point, I think you are too fussy waiting (or not) the same from DC.
The problem is not a dark theme, it is that american writers of comic book adaptations are afraid to experiment, because executives do not like risks.
When there is a good movie with good plot, you ignore it completely. The public wants things like Transformers, but complains that other films have the same silly style and no substance, for that reason you only see movies designed for children.
No doubt, Marvel film execs were hoping that WB would keep Snyder around, because it just made the "war" lop-sided for them.
WB having test audiences fucked up the DCEU. Their opinions made WB edit the movies to make them worse. Suicide Squad is the worst of all the films because WB turned it into a Marvel movie.
Will you guys do a full breakdown on Summer movies of 2016? So many underperformed both commercially and/or critically that discussing what went wrong and what can be learn from your pov would be interesting.
It has been an interesting year in that regard, though there might have been hints about what was to come this year considering that there were a good amount of "shocking" flops last year.
BatmanVSuperman was indeed a shocking flop Ghostbusters on the other hand not at all maybe Sony will listen to what audiances actually want in the future.
Dragonmaster0118 BvS was an underperformance; it broke even and made some profit, but Warner were hoping for a billion at minimum.
Brandon Dozier
Desn't change the fact the movie sucked but fair enough. As I said no one should be surprised that GhostBusters was a flop. Amy Pascal wanted to push her agenda rather then make the movie the fans were asking fir and was well in the works.
I'm thinking, why don't they give up already, just let Zack Snyder fuck the project into the ground, reap the small rewards, and sell the damn property.
I think WB is already trying to get the Superhero boom to die. They're obviously not going to sell to Disney but They would much prefer to go back to making "serious" old guard slice of life dramas that no one likes.
Nobody wanted a Cyborg movie. DC did that because of Black Panther at Marvel. So happy to see that disappear. If they looking for black hero its better choices. But maybe not. DC doesn't have too many.
Funny thing is that MARVEL's CIVIL WAR was a response to BvS being announced. Yet another funny thing is that not only does CIVIL WAR not feel like a rip-off, but as, Andre had previously mentioned in another video, Warner deliberately tried to kick MARVEL out of the May release by originally placing BvS' s release on the same day as CIVIL WAR's on purpose. But when MARVEL didn't back down, Warner decided the March release slot.
I kind of wish DC/Warner Bros waited with the Justice League movie. I feel like average movie goers would eventually get sick of Marvel and would like to try something new.
By then, audiences will be sick of comic book movies in general.
No, the way marvel treats heroes is the way that's work ed for thousands of years. the pandering to insecure little boys who thought Frank Miller made their comic books sophisticated adult material is what has no staying power outside of the comic shop bubble.
Jack Kirby needs more appreciation.
I'm glad Johns pointed out this melodrama that the film's have been mired in needs to stop (I had a problem with that even in TDK trilogy) though it seems from the JL trailer they're being knee-jerk about it a little. But DC is so desparate to match Marvel that they don't realize _what_ Marvel did to get it right. Yes, Iron Man was funny out the gate, but that's natural to his character and him alone. After that, Hulk was thoughtful while being causally amusing. Iron Man worked as a good production (and obscure enough not to have too many purists) and they then started laying out a schedule. When Avengers hit $1.5 billion, then they started laying out whole schedule with whatever they had and no one else was holding the film rights. Sony even botched it with their desire to have a shared universe with Spider-Man without making sure ASM 2 didn't suck first. It would have been better for DC to stop milking Suoerman and Batman and started elsewhere, maybe Flash or some other unique character, build up to the ones were so familiar with. Marvel didn't start with Cap or Hulk (even if others had made them earlier) and instead proved themselves first. They don't need to be funny like Marvel but certainly not so pretentious asNolan. Just accept what they are and play it straight.
Nothing like a bad clickbait video filled with absolute uninformed nonsense.
Oh yeah, then how about YOU explain what's going on.
Hack Snyder's failure is the perfect example of why it's not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket case.
Titans and Birds of Prey??? YES! PLEASE don't screw those up!
By Titans, does he mean TEEN TITANS? Or is this a different superhero team?
It refers to the Teen Titans, it's just that "Titans" sounds more cool
Dani De Santa Good, because I think it would be cool to have a TEEN TITANS movie. In fact maybe even have Deathstroke as the villain as a tribute to the 2003 animated series. (Deathstroke was referred to as "Slade" in the 2003 series).
From what I heard (true or not), Deathstroke (played by Joe Manganiello) will appear not only as the main villain for the Batman solo movie, but he will appear in Justice League and the Teen Titans movie (if it ever happens)
This should be DCEU's new motto: Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
I never,never,nevah evah(put some sass in the wording) understood as to just WHY all the DCEU characters had to all be dark ??The Flash is an up beat youngest member of the group with a shinny out look on life,Wonder Woman is a hard nosed but still optimistic woman , Lantern is a bit hard nosed too but he is not sooo serious, Batman..yeah..he is a dark character with a bit of hope in him ,Super Man is the most up beat and optimistic of all , Cyborg is not dark , Aqua Man is like Batsy .None of these characters work well in the tone Snyder had set for the DCEU ,they are not too up beat but are not also too dark .relaunch this franchise totally over again and just say BvS,MoS are an else where stories .
i know im not, this dc shit needs to stop
***** Unless my math is wrong but hasn't DC been dark since '89??
Flash is a light character in Justice League, did you watch the comic-con footage?
archfiendbaramos
hopefully he is like that the whole movie
I feel like the DC universe could really benefit from serialized, personal accounts regarding their heroes. In the context of some of the greatest of their comics, the best circumstances presented to each hero tends to happen when they're in a vacuum. Putting them on teams confuses the mood, the narrative, and the pace since each character tends to have different versions of each of these.
I can easily see the rumors about WW being accurate. The marketing campaign is odd, and having her center on BvSM covers is suspicious.
Plus, what's the movie even about? Blocking bullets with shin guards?
Great video. This guy did his homework.
Personally am going wait all this shit out & Come back with the Reboot I don't see any reason 2 watch DC movies @ this point.
Lost faith in DC long ago. They think money. So does marvel but at least they got lucky in having decent producers and directors. Until leadership changes they will still under perform. Either way I won't be giving them my money. I'd wait till several reviews come out then decide. Similar to pregame buying. Let reviewers review the movie. Find a legit source then hand over your money. Never understood impatience. I do wish them the best of luck however. I do enjoy a good thought out movie. We will see. Midnight's Edge Thanks for your research. Very appreciative of that. Always an informative source.
Intelligent and insightful, awesome channel, Thank you,
You are my number one movie resource,
Well, I am hopeful. Hell, the screen shot with the cast not washed out in blue-gray filters made me smile right away. Warner Brothers, they're great characters, they do not need to be focus tested in a room of grumpy teenage boys. Embrace them, because we long ago did.
Still don't understand why everyone is so salty about the movies, they weren't as bad as the so called "critics" and fanboys make them out to be. I personally loved both MoS and BvS and I know I will love SS whenever I have a chance to see it and even then I do agree with some of the complaints but feel like the majority of said complaints are just people hating for the sake of hating. yeah, so Superman isn't perfect and questioned his existence on earth, was unable to perfectly stop a villain who had the same power as himself but with more experience that wanted to destroy all of humanity, so what? So Batman after having been retired an losing a Robin thereby becoming jaded as the years went on just said "fuck it" to the bad guys and didn't care if some of them died, then his own brand was used by the true villain as way to frame even more deaths on him, so what?
So Bruce finds out that the all powerful being he thought was just an alien that wanted to show off basically entrust his adoptive human mothers life in the guy that is about to kill him in a move that shows how vulnerable he really is making him realize that "hey, maybe there is more to this guy than what I've been blindly thinking" and she just so happen to have the same name, so what? So the movies are dark, it's not like there isn't a precedent for a story with a dark tone to turn around and turn light... oh wait, DC Rebirth was almost the same as how the movies were going where everything was dark and now everything is falling back into place, clearly something like that can't possibly happen at some point in the movies, right? I'm not saying that thenmovies are perfect or that they don't have their downsides, I do agree that some of it feels rushed, but from what I've been seeing so far the true problem is WB themselves who are trying everything they can to shoot themselves in the foot, especially everytime I hear about them cutting out important parts in the movies. Call me a fanboy as much as you want I don't give a fuck, but I'm not going to join the hate train and mob mentality that surrounds these movies, I enjoyed them and will keep enjoying them to my hearts content.
When it comes to fans, businesses need to just not listen to them as much as people think they should. If the fans had gotten their way, Batfleck wouldn't be a thing, Downey Iron Man/AI Jarvis wouldn't either, find out what they want at the core, and then make that but don't listen to how they'd do it, because very, very few of us fans actually know how to make a good film.
That's the other extreme. Fans have spoken. BvS was shit, but Batfleck was a good surprise. The problem is much larger: The studios are scared. That's why we get all the remakes/reboots f.e
Honestly, I never was against Affleck as I knew he was a changed man. Especially, after seeing Gone Girl and Argo. Fans sometimes really don't know better or lack the necessary hindsight. RDJ is perfect for Stark because honestly he really embodies a lot of what Stark was being depicted in the comics.
When it comes to casting for Superhero movies, I tend not to disagree and more of a wait and see. For instance, Gal Gadot was okay as WW in BVS. She was more Selina Kyle and less Diana(huge fan of WW BTW), but was good. WW looks great, but I do hope it is successful.
DC needs one critical success. And give it to Patty Jenkins and a movie that has color.
I agree but the simple matter is that fans make up a good chunk (still in the minority though) of a movies audience and they are the most vocal and will influence the view of other movie-goers. Say what you will about Marvels movies but they know how to please their audience. Are they perfect, no (Age of Ultron, Thor 2, Iron Man 3 come to mind) but they have done a better job at pleasing most of their audience compared to DC and WB.
Neil Ganti What were the arguments against Batfleck? I remember reading a lot of comparions to Daredevil as a reference. He was terrible in that, so he will be terrible as batman.
But that's Reddit etc for you. Argo and The Town (also a great Heist movie by Affleck) didn't came up in the discussion.
However, the people were right about Jesse Eisenberg in every way.
***** A lot of it was on UA-cam and even some hollywood pundits and commentators complained. But really I'm so happy for him. He's finally gotten some validation as he's a huge Batman fan and was awesome. Even during SS, the scenes he was in were great.
I'm hoping the next solo film really showcases Affleck's directing and acting chops. Especially, considering Johns is on the script and they are using Deathstroke. I kind of wanted Black Mask or a take on Court of Owls, but that could always be a possibility.
I didn't think the role of an Exec Producer is that large/ impactful in film, unlike it is in television.
I really dig Andre's Norwegian accent.
I gotta admit, it took me forever to figure out where he was from. :-)
Could you guys please look into the reasons for Jackson's missteps in the Hobbit trilogy?
If I had to guess trying to stretch the movie into 3 movies and turning the dwarf scenes into Mario Brothers platforming mini-games was
Turning a children's book into something similar to lord of the rings. Not what Tolkien intended.
The vast majority of people commenting on things like this don't understand how studios work and I can understand that. If you don't really have the knowledge or haven't looked into it you wouldn't really get it I guess. So most people think that as long as a movie makes some money it's a success. That's not the case at all. In fact, even if a movie makes tens of millions over its budget plus marketing that doesn't necessarily mean it's a success either. A film needs not only to make money but to justify its existence. That means it needs to have a profit margin that justifies putting it out in place of another movie. So if the studio has project A and project B and choose to make project A it needs to make as much or more than project B because they chose it over the other project. So if they have a new IP or Jurassic World, for example, and they choose to make the movie based on the new IP that needs to make a comparable amount of money to what Jurassic World would have brought in. Because they've shelved that other project and put their money into that new IP. So since Batman V Superman didn't make what it should have (being the first Superman/Batman joint feature it should have made Avengers money) that means that's potential profit lost. A business needs to look at how to maximize profit. That's good business. There are exceptions but generally that's how it works. That money goes into producing new features. So if a movie underperforms that's a problem because they made the movie to finance other productions. Those other productions now have less money to dedicate to them because BvS didn't produce what it should have.
So just because the DC movies did make money does not make them successes. WB's standpoint is that they should have made more so they're going to make changes so they do make more. It's a business like any other so if a product doesn't make as much as it should you don't just keep it around if you have something to replace it with that will make more money. I get why most people don't get this but it's the reality and honestly most people who are commenting are very ignorant and it's not helping. You just have to understand how this works and the fact that it has to work this way because this is how more product gets made.
I wish we had reporting that was this incisive about politics!
Look up Secular Talk on youtube, the guy predicted the presidential primary results way better than mainstream media just by analyzing the polls.
people are stupid to blame everything on zack snyder. Filmmaking is a team effort between many people. Yes he 'directs' the production how it looks and how it is told, yet again he did not write the full script, approve on the script, greenlit the film or even solely alone decided how the DC universe is supposed to be. In these big films it's all a studio decision, people just want a face they can point fingers to. The film isn't even as bad as many critics claim it to be. DC is trying to hard to please the crowd and have no idea what to do, so they desperately trying to do anything they think the fans want. They should get theirs hit together and focus on making god stories, a simple brighter look and more jokes doesn't make a film better.
"DC is trying to hard to please the crowd and have no idea what to do,"
And that about summarizes the main issue. You never make something to please others. It should be a story you believe in. The constant failing of DC is because they aren't telling stories. They are fraught with discord and inconsistencies so far by directors who don't love the properties they are presenting. You can see it with the fun that Ryan Reynolds and Taika Waititi had promoting the filming. You never see that from a DC property.
icthulu Marvel is doing the exact same thing tho. they jus re-print the same stories they know people love, with a formula that is so generic u can fall asleep at any moment, and wake up, and don't feel u missed a thing.
At least one can praise DC to try to do something different with Man of steel, and BvS. But they didn't dear to do it with Suicide Squad, which is a shame.
if the first two films where any good, is anther discussion, but at least u had to pay attention to understand what the films where trying to do.
MarkFilipAnthony
Marvel has never reprinted a story. If you can prove me wrong, please do so. From everything I have read (comics) the stories of Antman, Guardians, Ironman, Cap, Thor, Hulk are not retold anywhere in the movies. It's the same character and they are faithful to the spirit of the character and in a fashion their origin, but none of their movies are retellings of a comic.
I respect your love of DC over Marvel, but you have to acknowledge these are not cut paste movies, they put a huge amount of effort to make great movies based on the characters.
The rest of your points have been argued over and over and I would like to move on from DC Marvel fighting. They exist, make your own opinion, I am not fighting that any more.
icthulu I don't like one over the other tho. I'm just stating that the marvel movies copy themselves, I don't know if they cop the comic, as I prefer gcrafic novels myself.
The Marvel movie formular is pretty much the same tho.
1.Intro of plot important item
2. first battle
3.inner turmoil
4.second battle
5.final showdown
6. Cameo/post credit/hint of future film.
I guess there is only a certain amount of time a character can 'almos die' and the survive in the end befor eit gets old.
I know marvel didn't invent that cliche formula, but they're re-using it in almost every film, mixed with mainly forgettable villains.
........................................................
Now with only 3 films, it's hard to say what the 'DC forumla' is/will be, but mainly all of them seem to be quite different type of films.
At least BvS used a 5 structured detective story, with almost a hour without a single action scene. Or Man of steel being a alien film, about first contact etc.
None of them really trying to me a typical super hero film at all.
...........................................................
I enjoy both marvel and DC films and characters, but one can get tired of repetitiveness in a franchise. Like in the James Bond films, or fast and furious films etc. I guess at least all Harry potter films are quite different from another lol
MarkFilipAnthony
That's... A fair critique. I agree.
No, they don't take chances really in terms of deviating from the 3 act structure, but they are well written and executed and polished. There's no surprises, the good guys win in the end, and it's comfortable, simple even.
Also agree on the graphic novels, I like a story to have an end, comics in general are the artistic version of a soap opera where eventually it gets to the point of absurdity that you have to scrap it and start over again. Something Anime has over Western media, but Anime has some very ingrained tropes that make it insufferable.
what's sad is that I feel a lot of BvS and SS issues were brought about by studio execs stressing over reactions from the public concerning the trailers...and second guessing themselves into trying to redo/rearrange things before release
Geoff Johns wrote the Justice Society episodes of Smallville. I love him.
LOL When I saw the thumbnail I thought the flash was Ben Affleck as DareDevil.
Zack Snyder was just bad director period, Man of Steel was terrible movie they should of seen the warning signs earlier
They saw the dollar signs.
Agreed Snyder is a horrible director and Man of Steel was terrible
6:20 "That makes it appear as if Warner has greater faith in Affleck's ability to write the shit than it does Snyder."
- cleans ear, plays again -
Oh.
The Flash and Cyborg don't feel like real characters
If I may say something from my own perspective about this. I am from Holland. Comics where alway distributed by a company called Juniorpress and they were the only company that had them. Every supermarket, gas-station, etc had them. The limited amount of titles Juniopress had where Spider-man, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Wolverine, sometimes Avengers, Batman and Superman. So personally I knew very little about the DC universe because I could not get to see the other DC characters unless they showed up in Batman or Superman . I also think that if in 2002 you asked anyone anywhere in the world who knew nothing about comic books to name some titles they knew it would be the same titles I named earlier. I understand that Iron man wasn't that known either. And I understand that comic book fans will know all of the DC & Marvel superheroes but given the huge budgets they are not making the movies just for the comic book heroes. I do think that already puts DC at a disadvantage.
The apologists for these 3 movies are the fucking worst.
"But Man of Steel was amazing! This is a new, gritty, realistic version of Superman". Since when is destruction porn, the absence of heart and charm, highly questionable morals, and Superman needlessly murdering thousands "amazing"?
"The director's cut changes everything, now the movie is really good!" Nope, it just adds pointless filler, and is as bad as it was before.
"Fuck the critics, this is a movie for THE FANS. It made money, so of course it's good!" Popularity does not equal quality. By that logic, Titanic is one of the greatest movies of all time.
Titanic truly is one of the greatest movies of all times, it got 11 oscars, 4 Golden globes and a shitload of other awards, and it made over 2 billion dollars. This is a enormous success by a all means. A film being "good"or "bad" is a matter of opinion, but a film being "successful" or not is a matter of pure numbers.
One of the biggest mistakes that was done is casting Ben Affleck (aka: Daredevil) as the new Batman. The same was done when Pierce Brosnan was the new James Bond in the 90's when most people remember him as Remington Steele. If you see him as one character playing a similar role in either another movie or tv show then it sticks in the back of your mind when you watch him in a popular series or blockbuster movie. It's like imagining Arnold play the role of Robocop when everyone knows him as the Terminator...
Almost everybody on the Internet and even critics that trashed the movie loved his batman so the Dafuq are you talking about?
What I'm worried about is Superman. Will they pull back on the emo shit and give him a smile?
I've completely given up on the DCEU films, i'm expecting Wounder Woman to be another train-wreck.
The Justice League script has been modified by Geoff Johns and Jon Berg(via, Wall Street Journal).
In Johns we trust