At the time of making the video, we only had opening weekend estimates. Actuals are that «Justice League» opened to 93.8 million in its domestic opening weekend, and 278.8 million worldwide. Meaning, actuals came in even below estimates. To put some perspective on that, «Guardians of the Galaxy» was seen by more audiences in its opening weekend than «Justice League» was. Also, apologies for uneven audio quality. Recorded on mobile device in less than ideal conditions, while travelling.
The animated series (not the Young Justice) were almost perfect. There is no fucking way brain dead and unimaginative Hollywood can beat that. Never in a million years. Well, maybe if they return back to the good old days and ditch their regressive propaganda, SJW pandering and commie ass licking.
s13 gouf, that is because Jurassic Park balanced CGI with animatronics. These days it's just straight up CGI, no practical effects, so the CGI has become noticeable, and quite frankly an eyesore.
JT Westvold it is being used where practical effects are both cheaper and better looking. Cgi is like spices, it should be used to complement and enhance, not overpower.
How is it that no one at WB understands that Zack Snyder is just a BAD storyteller? Both 300 and Watchmen were him tracing (very literally) the framework of pre-existing comic storylines. Without them he's just style with no substance. The problem isn't that the films are too light or too dark or whatever. They're BADLY told.
Finally someone sees the clear truth. He can't tell a coherent, naturally progressing story for shit. I've no idea why no one (especially WB execs) seems to get this.
"excessively PC" Not sure what this means exactly, but Marvel wasn't at the top of their game when they were being edgy either. And if this is what I think it means, then the same can be lobbed at DC.
it's funny those few years ago when Snyder and Warner Brothers was kind of mocking Thor around the time Man of Steel came out.. now they face the facts that Thor beat the Justice League in the box office
Logician Drake If I’m honest tho, I’m not at all surprised about the fact that Thor was better. The public’s trust in the Marvel brand means that they can do out there wacky things and still have a shit ton of ppl show up to watch. Bcoz of DCs bad rep ppl decide not to c the movies even if they look good
Sadly DC made me not care about this movie,somehow seeing the third reboot of spider-man and thor ragnarok were more exciting than the first movie about the JL
Kaz Kinnikuman you mean regular spiderman and mcu thor? Sure. I just said reshoot:the movie wasn't interesting to me,even WW got that snyder poison at the third act,i expect this to be the same
Do you think people want Dark and Gritty comic book movies anymore. I honestly ask this because Marvel is killing it with bright and colorful movies and DC is in the dumps with dark and gritty. Im honestly asking hey. Even tho i thought what happened in Thor Ragnarok was very Dark the movie itself was still bright and colorful.
Andrew O i think we are in the equivalent of the golden age of comics,were fun sold a lot.Past infinity war is where we will see the decline in profits and the studios trying new things. The problem with DC now is that they want cgi explosions and philosophical debate at the same time,(and are mediocre at both)like in WW where they were giving you a message about humanity and then screw it up with an explosion fest and a villain so generic it looks like a shiny doomsday
100% agree with your comment about Golden age of Comic book Movies with regards to Marvel. Honestly im surprised how much i loved Thor Ragnarok and i have seen it 3 times and want to see it again. 100% agree with you on WW i watched it yesterday. I don't think people have clicked yet with how good the Marvel Films have been and will become classics in the future IMHO.
Yeah, I still haven't seen it and I'v been pretty on the fence. The fact that most of the reviews I've seen say it's kind of just average aren't winning me over. And that's people I watch on UA-cam, if you consider UA-camrs critics.
OMG - I just realized I've been eagerly watching (and enjoying) more post mortems of JL, instead of seeing the movie. My basic reason: I, a Lifelong Comic & Comic book movie fan - i.e. Thie Ideal Target Audience (!!) Simply cannot for the life of me convince any other friends or comic book fans to spare 2 hours , or $9 to go see this movie. That's the problem. And yes - per your comment - I clearly completely and totally relate lol le sigh
Joseph Fortunato and JOHN Henry For the record I did see the movie and I liked it (mostly). It is worth $9 and 2hrs of your life. But, I still liked watching this video more. I guess I just really like watching midnights edge.
I don't get people dissing Wheadon when by all accounts Snyder's original cut was "unwatchable". Wheadon didn't ruin the movie. He salvaged it from being an even hotter mess.
Justice League was in a lose-lose situation. Either release the movie as it was originally intended, or give Whedon only 6 months to adjust the movie. This movie never stood a chance.
It's clear which scenes he added. They were the scenes that made the movie somewhat watchable. They had his signature style, which works far better than Zack Snyder's vision. Age of Ultron was declared a loss, but it was far, far better in every respect than this mess, and while I take anything by Rotten Tomatoes with a grain of salt, AOU was still deemed fresh, where as this one turned out to be pretty rotten. I will not pay to see JL in theaters again, and when it comes to cable, or wherever it ends up, I will most likely fast forward through most of Zack Snyder's scenes.
+guinness4life - Did you ever see Kevin Smith talking about his script for Nicholas Cage's Superman? ua-cam.com/video/Wo2KB1dEDdk/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/53hMYw8LX60/v-deo.html
@guinness4life The studio release of Alexander was unwatchable garbage but the director's cut was breathtaking. The excitement when the Macedonian shepherd-soldiers entered the gardens of Babylon was unreal.
I went to watch this movie on Saturday. It was an almost empty room. I think there were about 10 people with my wife and I. And it was 19h00! I found the movie to be enjoyable. I was enjoying laughing at the pathetic plot, the bad CGI, and the terribly unimpressive villain. So I think I had a good evening, but not the one WB was hoping for me to experience. Now, I hear some people are asking for the "Snyder Cut" of Justice League. Ugh... Some people are desperate to try to convince others that a pile of garbage smells good! Now, the people who are trying to justify what happened to JL, are trying to say "superhero fatigue" or "Thor Ragnarok stole audience from JL." That is just excuses. If you make a good product, people will come! Viewers are not idiots! Especially in this era of social media! Bad word of mouth spreads quickly! WB rushed, they tried to do the same thing as Marvel. But they forgot to do what Marvel did: make viewers invested in each character. They are just shoving this extended universe down our collective throats. In addition, they turned quite a few people off their characters. So they got exactly what they deserved: failure! I have no pity for WB...
Lol Fanboy sighted! Seriously though, I never said my experience was everyone's experience. So it also means that your experience will not represent the overall experience of the general public. That been said, the numbers do not lie. For a movie that is supposed to be a blockbuster, JL has underperformed. Underperformed badly! It is not a perfect movie, no movie is. But I think that many people were less than forgiving than I, they chose to stay at home instead of spending like I did. I chose to go watch and make my own opinion. And my opinion is that JL is a bad movie. I did my due diligence towards my favorite movie genre and spent. But if WB continues to do bad movies like this, i will also be fed up and not show up for premieres. WB needs to slow down and rethink things up. they have made a lot of bad decisions relating to DC properties. They have burned a lot of fans with their DC games, which were buggy as heck on launch day. Arkham City and Arkham Knight, anyone? Now they are messing up DC movies. Thank god they have yet to mess DC TV series. But if given enough time?
If DC wants to see a universe done correctly, see every first episode of the DCAU aka Dini/Timmverse. I dunno how they didn't just copy and paste the brianiac script.
Justice League, no matter how you feel about the movie (I'm indifferent towards it for the most part), should have made waaaaaaaaaay more than $94 million on its opening weekend. I don't think I need to explain why that's goddamn embarrassing.
Well, I mean, compared to the Avengers 1's hull, its ridiculously poor. Seems like most general people who had hope for DC are burned out after so many bad movies. Myself included.
The Rotten Tomatoes score reveal delay gets a bit more eyebrow-raising when you remember that Warner Bros. actually own a sizable portion of Rotten Tomatoes.
The Rageaholic Sorry, but Carvel is a great Superman. It’s not as if the story given was any good. Justice League was several movies too early. I also like Ben Affleck’s Batman. He shows vulnerability, the real fact the man ages. I will not watch anymore DC movies if Carvel is dropped.
The Lawyer You mean Cavill, lol! But yeah, both Cavill and Affleck do well when they have something half-decent to work with; Affleck had his best stuff in BvS while Cavill arguably has his in the latter half of JL.
@@elvellarambles9151 Affleck still seems lacking to me. There's more to Bruce Wayne than sad and broody... it's just a shame that he's portrayed this way more often.
@@ezj8262, I disagree but I know where you're coming from. The thing is, while Bruce Wayne's real character *is* morose and brooding, and that is where the drama of his character really lies, it's supposed to be countered by the role he plays as the glamourous billionaire playboy. Yet this side of his life has been seriously neglected. It's even been relegated almost to walk-on parts at gala openings and parties as if all he has to do is show up for 30 seconds. Audiences need a chance to take a breath of fresh air between times spent down in the filth of Gotham's criminal underbelly.
I'm glad to see the DCCU fail. WB deserved it for being so greedy and trying to jump at those Avenger dollars as quickly as possible. Marvel had to earn that and so does WB.
Time for the MCU to reboot - I hope all their next films fail hard. The genre is at overload - MCU got too greedy putting out too many films. They have killed the genre. Comic Film Crash is imminent.
Kelvin McBride A wild DC fanboy has appeared.A DC fanboy usually attacks the Marvel movies ingnoring the fact that they are better.Wild DC fanboys live in denial.
Marcos Recio Says the guy who hasn't figured out that you don't get to make 17 films unless you are doing something consistently right. That's not how WB's work on DCEU is working out. Lie to yourself about it all you want. Won't change the math.
I think that one major problem for the DCEU is that all of their villains are end of the world threats that come more or less out of nowhere. Zod, Doomsday, Enchantress, Steppenwolf... They all come out of nowhere to try and destroy the world with a glowy portal in the sky or something. Ares is a way better villain, actually playing smart, having an established connection to the heroine that actually makes her question her own motivations... there's even some ambiguity as to whether Ares is even real or if it's just human nature to fight each other. Wonder Woman grows as a character a lot, too. Still, I think that the apocalypse level threats are really a weakness of the DCEU. Look at Marvel: most of the stand alone movies have relatively localized threats. Some have larger consequences, sure, but none are going to render humanity extinct, at least for phase 1. Even Thor has a very tight scope of threat with the destroyer, being a threat to a small town rather than the whole world. This means that for the epic Avengers movies they can raise the stakes to make it clear why this threat requires everyone to work together to defeat it, while still allowing them to de-escalate for stand-alones. Avengers can have mortal foes, but the DCEU has kinda set it up so the heroes have fought gods ect in their first outings, which leaves them with few places to grow their characters too. It's fine for stand alone movies, but if they want to rival the MCU they really needed to pace themselves better.
I actually thought that General Zod was a great villain regarding his backstory with Krypton, motivations, acting by Michael Shannon, the portrayal of his technology/henchmen, the cosmic-level one-on-one battle with Superman, and the how he still essentially won in the end (by forcing Superman to either let humanity die or give Zod a warrior’s death and feel what it is like to take a life and become the last son of Krypton). I even thought it was appropriate for Zod to pose an apocalyptic-level threat, since he just witnessed Krypton being destroyed, Superman is a cosmic-level being with the weight of the world on his shoulders, and Zod’s desire is to rebuild Kal-El’s home planet anew and force Superman to choose between the Kryptonians and humans who raised him (a goal as profound as this warrants an Earth-threatening scheme, IMO). In my opinion, I actually think Zod is my favorite one-time villain out of the Fox X-Men movies, MCU, and DCEU. I also really liked Ares a lot for similar reasons you stated. However, I agree with you completely on Doomsday, Enchantress, and Steppenwolf. As for Joker and Lex Luthor, the two possibly recurring villains in the DCEU so far, those had a very uneven start, so I do not feel like we got a truly satisfying portrayal of them yet. But I am still willing to see how they turn out in later movies and give the DCEU a chance in that regard.
Mark Cobuzzi: I concede the point on Zod. Honestly, when I first saw Man of Steel it felt like Zod's story, rather than Superman's. However, given that he got such a good buildup it was wasteful using him as a generic doomsday villain. Imagine for a moment if he had arrived and, rather than going for intimidation from the word go, had extended the hand of friendship. Ask Superman for help, rather than hold the world hostage. Pull the whole "saviors from the stars" routine, coming in and using some kryptonian technology to cure cancer or whatever. Bring in G Gordon Godfry to do an interview. Then, intrepid reporter Clark Kent digs a bit deeper and discovers that the cures for cancer are rendering people servile, and Zod's endgame is to enslave the puny humans and terraform the planet via the new "communication relays" that people are willingly helping to set up? Have superman get discovered and fight his way out, and the movie ends with Clark Kent breaking the story to the world. Cut to Batman vs Superman. Zod has naturally come out and said this is all lies and propaganda, which Bruce Wayne is willing to lend at least some credibility to because one of the lives saved by Zod's technology is Alfred. However, being Batman he is still going to look into it because he's Batman, and taking something like that as true just on faith is not how he works. So Batman appears in Clark Kent's bedroom one night to interrogate him, find out more about the story. He does his whole mysterious thing. Superman now has reason to consider Batman a threat, because he just showed up in his bedroom! What if Lois had been there?!? The two costumed heroes meet, both wary of the other, and they begin to argue. Something happens, orchestrated by Zod or even Luthor, who is working with Zod as part of a plan to turn the invasion on its head and come out ruling humanity with his new superhuman enforcers. Maybe some kind of airborne drug that increases aggression. The two get into a fight. Just as it looks like Batman is about to kill Superman with a Kryptonite Batarang or something, the throw is blocked by a shield as Wonder Woman intervenes. The spirit of compassion calms the pair down and reveals that she has evidence for Batman of the Kryptonian conspiracy. The three join forces but agree that an army of Kryptonians is not something they can save the world from alone. A few lead-in movies later, all ending around the same time in universe with WW recruiting the heroes like a superhuman Nick Fury, and the Justice League forms to expose Zod and defeat him. Batman and WW work on strategy together. Batman has a bunch of anti-Kryptonian weaponry stockpiled just in case, so he is fighting on a pretty even footing here and outfits the others with any gear needed to take down Kryptonians if they need it. WW gets to train everyone up a bit, in a montage. Then they do a combined media blitz thanks to Cyborg, revealing to the world the Kryptonian plan, while the league goes for a decapitation strike against the Kryptonian command. Finally we get the big battle, with Superman Vs Zod, WW taking on several henchmen at once, Batman dueling with Zod's right hand man, Cyborg hacking systems and turning their own ship against them, Aquaman beating down mooks and calling on creatures of the sea to kick all kinds of ass, and Flash making sure no-one dies by evacuating the city in a matter of seconds before returning to provide support by tying the Kryptonians up with Kryptonian materials, that sort of thing. Much of the city is destroyed but thanks to Flash no-one dies, and Zod and his forces are defeated and taken into custody deep underground where no sunlight can reach so they cannot recharge their powers. Cut to Lex Luthor, getting a phone call from the mayor and saying "Of course Lexcorp will handle the rebuilding." once the phone call ends he turns to Mercy and gives a small, smug smile and says "While perhaps not an ideal outcome, this exercise has still proven rather profitable. This so called Justice League, though... they may be a problem. You have the files?" And Mercy hands him a wad of files with the names of various supervillains clearly visible to the audience, setting up that Lex is the mastermind villain for the next phase of the movies. Yes, an overarching plot for 3 movies is a bold move, but it would make for something very different from Marvel and potentially invest people even harder. A gamble, but one which might pay off big if handled well. Plus, it gives a good chance to have Zod and Luthor be very different villains to what we are used to, with the Heroes not even knowing that Luthor is a villain until a good way through phase 2!
+1 hour ago I did not have the chance to respond until now, but I thought your ideas on how to incorporate Zod as a recurring villain (like Magneto and Loki in the Fox X-Men films and MCU) sounded really cool. I was happy with the use of Zod, by one-time villain standards, but now that I read your comment, part of me is now really curious to imagine what the DCEU might have been like if it went down a direction like that. Besides what you already mentioned, the main issues I still have so far with the overall DCEU is: 1.) How we never got to see a solo Batman movie prior to Dawn of Justice (which could have given valuable context to why this version of Batman has finally snapped and is so out of character that he kills criminals in cold blood, has zero faith in humanity, thinks about killing Superman and asking questions later, and needs to witness Superman’s act of self-sacrifice as the wake-up call to return to his old moral code). At some point, I feel that casual audiences should also be shown what happened to Jason Todd, and not just given an Easter Egg of the vandalized Robin Suit and expected to do “homework,” to understand a significant basic reason why this Batman became so unhinged. 2.) Doomsday was introduced in a manner that made him lack the little bit of pathos and character motivation that his comic-book counterpart possessed (in order to incorporate Doomsday into the plot of BvS, they basically had to dumb down his background lore and origin story into an apparent knock-off of Nuclear Man, while making Lex Luthor act more like the nihilistic chaos-loving Joker, as he unleashes a world-destroying monster without even a plan to control it, just so humanity can see Superman die). 3.) This Batman went through a phase where he broke his no-kill rule, yet the DCEU never addresses why the Joker was still alive and roaming free out in the open, during the events of Suicide Squad. One would think the Joker would be the first person Batman could be driven to kill, and the only reason I can imagine for why the Joker would still be alive after Batman snapped is if the Joker has already been locked away for years now without any more break-outs (as in “The Dark Knight Returns”) or Batman somehow thought the Joker was already dead when he wasn’t. 4.) They killed off Superman only to bring him back shortly afterwards with so little time in between. I had no problem with the resurrection itself of Superman in Justice League and the ways it was handled (for a variety of reasons I could write a separate paragraph on), but I really think WB should have made more movies taking place in between BvS and JL, besides SS. That could have been the DCEU’s opportunity to show how the humanity is reacting to the loss of Superman, becoming more vulnerable while also striving to follow in his footsteps to build a better world in honor of his legacy. For instance, this could have been the perfect opportunity to make a Steel movie, where John Henry Irons is inspired by Superman’s act of self-sacrifice to become a superhero himself bearing the Superman symbol. But instead of taking a great opportunity to explore into that, the sudden jump from BvS to Justice League, with only Suicide Squad happening in between, comes off as “Oh no! Superman has died! What will his sacrifice mean for humanity? Will we learn to follow his example and reach for the stars like him? How will we do without him? Imagine the possibili... WAIT HOLD ON!!! STEPPENWOLF IS ATTACKING THE EARTH!!! NEVERMIND ALL THAT... BRING SUPERMAN BACK NOW!!!” I still feel that Wonder Woman 2017 is one of my favorite comic-book movies, Man of Steel was a decent origin story for Superman despite its flaws, and that the Justice Lesgue movie (at least what I saw from the theatrical cut) is a baby step in the right direction, in terms of making these larger-than-life characters feel human and fun to watch together. I will have to keep waiting and see if the DCEU as a whole gets better.
+Mark Cobuzzi Here's my biggest problem with Zod and co being the DCEU's starter villains: You have an army of soldier kryptonians in power armour that you are taking on in a direct fight, and this is NOT a big enough threat for the league? I mean, trained soldiers with advanced tech who are on superman's level, and a significant number of them to boot. If that isn't a threat worth forming the Justice League over... Also, it might be because I'm a fan of the DCAU but for MoS having Lex Luthor openly and directly involved with events feels wrong. I would have pulled a "World's Finest" and had Luthor hire Joker as part of his plan, underestimating the man's madness. Then Joker is the one who unleashes Doomsday. Or something. The finale should not have been Lex in jail, it should have been Lex getting awarded the rebuilding contracts to show that his plan had him come out ahead in every possible eventuality. I do completely agree with all of your points and would like to expand on a couple: 1) They really needed to take things slow, give every character their own movie in the leadup. Suicide Squad could have been replaced with a Batman movie, since it really doesn't add to anything in the DCEU so far and was unrelated to the Darkseid metaplot. Hell, a Flash movie with about the same level of stakes and lighthearted/serious ratio as Ant Man would have been a great fit and have potentially established the character as funny without having to make every line a joke. 2) This 100%. It is rare that you can take a character who is, at his core, more or less a force of nature and then strip him of what little characterization he has, but they did. I mean, would it not have been better for Lex to have been using Kryptonian tech to build his iconic warsuit and fight Superman himself rather than "Surprise Doomsday!" as the final boss? I wouldn't have particularly liked that either but it would have felt more like "Lex's schemes keep failing to beat superman so he decides to do it himself", with bonus points for being a kind of mirror to Batman's earlier fight and his power armour. If keeping Doomsday as is was somehow vital, then as I said before, having Lex hire Joker and then having Joker unleash Doomsday would have been a bit better. Not a lot but a bit. Or having Lex in another country and do it remotely, intending to profit off the destruction. I mean putting him in prison wasn't important as he broke out offscreen between movies. 3) YES! In the Arkham games there is only one time when Batman ever intentionally murders someone, and that is *Spoiler* near the end of Knight in a hallucination. Yes no-one actually dies, but he would have done it if that individual was really there. And it is POWERFUL because it shows just how far Batman has been pushed. And directly after that Batman hangs up the cowl. 4) Yes. The biggest loss wasn't killing Superman. It was not bringing him back. It is that they wasted the only chance they will likely ever get to pull a death of superman in the movies. Ever. It has now been done, and any reboot that does it will be dramatically weakened because it has been done. So the fact that they wasted killing off their big iconic character, something that Marvel hasn't even toyed with... I am disappointed. While I disagree about Man of Steel (really hated that movie and its overly pretentious Randian philosophy and religious overtones), I agree that Wonder Woman was a great movie. I think my favorite Superhero movie might be Deadpool (What?!? I just really like Deadpool! Don't judge me!), then Iron Man, Dark Knight, and Thor Ragnarok and Winter Soldier battling it out for a hotly contested 4th place, but the only reason WW is not on that list is that in the last decade and a half we have had a LOT of good superhero movies so the field is rather crowded. I would happily see Justice League again, which is not a claim that most of the DCEU can make from me (I never actually finished MoS, I walked out of the cinema after they killed Zod and never looked back). It had a strength to it: It didn't take itself too seriously, and it didn't seem to disdain its source material.
Because animated films are normally self contain stories so they are more focus character and storytelling wise. They don't have to worry with " this film has to kick off 50 more films blah blah blah we need to shove in these characters for future films blah blah blah they need to fun and quirky or the audience wont like it blah blah blah" you get my point.
Big alzo The animated movies have one problem, the majority of their solo films are Batman-focused with most DC characters restricted to team-up movies. Even their Justice League Dark movie robbed the B and C-list supernatural heroes a chance to shine because they shoved in Batman and made him the main protagonist.
Okay stop for just a minute. Can we address those costumes? How can they look worse every single time I see them in a new photo? I've already repeatedly described Flash's costume as a rejected concept from the Robocop reboot's costume parade and it's only gotten worse since then, Superman looks like the steel Heroforge mini I painted with Testors that looked way too shiny and wet for no good reason, Aquaman looks like some extra who wandered off the set of Game of Thrones half-dressed, and I won't even address the low-budget cosplayer with the red LEDs. Why does DC hate money? Did Sony hold a seminar for how to fuck everything up, sponsored by EA?
sixtopian i didn't notice anything other than the movie was bright. Supermans costume in this looked great. It looked better than his BvS and MoS one imo
This did not look like a 300 million dollar movie. Also it's sad that the far worse Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad did far better. After Wonder Woman this is probably the next best DCEU movie even with all its many flaws. At least they got the characters right for once.
I'm guessing the re-shoots weren't cheap. We don't know how many there were, or how expensive each one was. Plus I'm pretty sure Joss Whendon got paid, so there's that. I wouldn't be too surprised if the budget was supposed to be in the 240-270m range, and re-shoots brought it up to this. But yeah CGI mustache removable, totally worth it. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheaper for Warner to just pay the MI guys enough to CG a mustache on or anything, that would make too much sense.
Victius6 it matters because the more it cost, the harder it will be to get a sequel. So if you loved it and wanted more, it's a lot less likely. Meanwhile if you hated it, doesn't really matter.
you are right DC should soft reboot their movies Thor Ragnarok is like a soft reboot on the Thor character DC should do the same. specially with Superman
dimitreze In Man of Steel he had great adversaries to fight but that wasn't the case in Batman vs Superman and even worse in Justice League. These movies are only as good as the movie's bad guy. Dark Knight is a great example of that. Heath Ledger's Joker was the best of all time.
JOHN Henry : Movies? As in plural? What are you on about, Derpamous Maximous? The movie was meh. Momoa was miscast. But you're entitled to your ill-informed opinion. Now fuck off back into the depths of the internet, ya' dingus.
And now Aquaman - played by Jason Momoa - has grossed over a billion dollars and it's still in theaters. Face it: y'all were wrong. Maybe you can write for The Atlantic if you look smug enough.
Very, very minor thing, but I really appreciate the professionalism with which your channel times the ads. On almost every other channel I watch they are simply random and cut sentences in half. As I said, a very, very minor thing, but thank you!
What you didn't see Galactic Specter, is yes its true, they aren't making money in the US anymore. Not even close to what the first made. HOWEVER, those movies make a crapton of money overseas, and thus they will keep making them.
As of its last film? Didn't you see parts 2, 3 and 4? That franchise has been off my radar since the second film, I couldn't stomach another and I understand they didn't get any better.
Oh dear...... Not good news. This very bad for WB and it's a sign that they clearly have not learned their lessons. Wonder Woman gave me some hope, but this news is terrible. The DC brand right now is damaged. WB have only themselves to blame. Again, I say one of the big issues has always been that WB is trying to copy Marvel instead of focusing on making their movies the best they possibly can. They are always reacting to what audiences are saying about Marvel and changing course all the time to try and catch up. They should not be catching up, they should be concentrating on their own movies and making them fantastic, believing in their project and showing it. That WB held the reviews off is a sign of a lack of faith in their project, if Justice League was great and WB believed in it, they would be shouting it from the rooftops, they would be getting reviews out extremely early and showing the audience "we believe in DC and the characters, JL is great and we are glad to present it". Positive promotion. That they held back is the opposite. What I feel they should do now is concentrate on Aquaman and Wonder Woman and make them as great as possible, forget about the DC universe, what's done is done. Concentrate on having Aquaman be a awesome film, same with Wonder Woman. Focus on those two movies and don't do things on the fly, make a plan and stick to it. Focus, don't react. Stop worrying about Marvel and focus on your movies. Will they do it though? Past behavior indicates no. I expect they will edit Aquaman to the point of butchering it and Wonder Woman 2 will have reshoots and people coming and going bringing a whole bunch of whack ideas to the table. Very sad for the actors involved in this and very sad for DC. This is not what should have happened. WB should bow their heads over this madness. This is their fault completely.
AlwaysLookCool 729 I did also state that WB should have used positive promotion for the movie and that then holding back on the reviews was a negative on their part. It showed a loss of confidence. I wish I could put something positive and happy for you. But I can’t. This is not a positive story.
Kelvin McBride The DC films do not have an Oscar. The award was given to the late Heath Ledger for his role in The Dark Knight, no DC film has won an Oscar.
+ShaunTheCHB Suicide Squad won an Oscar... for makeup and hairstyling. Not something I would consider is worth bragging about when their movies are losing money and the cinematic universe is dying, while there biggest competitor is making a blockbuster after blockbuster.
kris guntner JL trailers were masterpieces.What are you talking about? The whole reason I saw the movie was because the trailers looked so good.The movie was shit though.
If you like the trailers,and the movie,that's fine but I didn't lav. I think most of the trailers marvel has put out for their movies have been much more exciting,presentation wise,then d.c's of late whatever you may think of the marvel movies themselves. Deadpool 1 trailers also were INSANELY well done for getting fans excited whether you liked the movie or not. The heroes are supposed to be the light in the darkness....not the darkness. Even wolverine and the PUNISHER,two of the most brutal comic characters,are being presented as empathetic humans we can relate to but the latest superman has been depicted to cold and distant more like a god on high rather then a god hiding among mortals AS a mortal ie clark kent,batman is nearly punisher level violent when he's supposed to OUT THINK the enemy not out brutalize them,etc.... They have lost too much of their humanity something you almost always see shine through in the animated movies. Whoever does the cartoons should do the live action movies.
kris guntner I didn't say Marvel trailer weren't good.The Guardians 2,Black Panther and Ragnarok trailer were amazing.Just the Homecoming trailers were meh. You are right,DC wants to keep their universe so dark and gritty that they do it at the expense of the character's personalities.Superman was finally done right in JL.He isn't supposed to brood and question if he should save people.It's his job.Wonder Woman and Batman are the only characters they have got right.Batman in BvS was the perfect Batman minus the killing part.Then they ruined him in JL.Hope they don't ruin WW too.
You should handle the line-up of DCEU films. It's amazing how fans and regular people understand what would work over studio executives. One only see's money, the other see's a movie with potential.
It feels weird calling this the *Culmination* of the DCEU thus far, if you’re looking for a satisfying conclusion to Dc’s first chapter you’re gonna get little to no payoff for sitting through the last 4 movies
@@Nano-if3ie How is Zack's Superman any different than in the comics? Christopher Reeve did not play a comic accurate Superman at the time his movie came out cause at the time Clark Kent was a News Anchor for WGBS News yet no one bitched about it cause it took commitment back then to protest something cause all you had was snail mail. You had to buy some stamps, write a letter, find a fucking mailbox, wait for a reply if one came at all. Who's got that kinda time. Hell the one thing they bragged about most was seeing him fly believably. Screw the fact that he was willing to break the laws of nature to save a chick he only knew for a day or two. That he fell for the oldest trick in the book even though he took twelve years of his dad's space college and learned all the knowledge of the known universe. Zack created a working man's Superman. A guy who had to earn out trust not just be given it, just as we had to earn his.
The DC fixes you stated were almost verbatim what I was saying a few days ago. It's the foundations that need fixing, so all attention needs to be paid to that. No reboot attempt via Flashpoint -- that will fail, and also convince audiences for sure that WB and DC don't know WTF they're doing, and simply react to everything. Focus all energies on making Aquaman and Wonder Woman 2 100% super-awesome stand alones. Do the same for a rebranded Superman movie and franchise with Cavill. Fire Ben Affleck's non-committed, drunk ass and replace him with an actor who at least seems like he wants to be there. Get a solid Matt Reeves Batman movie off the ground. Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Batman in place and working as franchises -- AKA the foundation -- THEN branch out to Suicide Squad 2, Shazam, other heroes, maybe even a Justice League 2 down the road.
Agreed. Many people think a Flashpoint movie would solve everything. It won't. You can soft-reboot without making it a big deal. Aquaman and WW2 are good starting points and from there, go with Cavill as Superman. Because, I'm going to be honest; Cavill after JL is my favorite live action movie take on Superman. I love Reeves, but man; Cavill in JL got the character that I wanted. And he's got the look for him. I never say that about any actor playing a character. But Superman, given how is iconography is in his physicality, Cavill fits that so well. And yeah, then move forward with JL2 and other spinoffs.
I'm not a fan of Man of Steel or Batman v Superman, but never blamed that on Cavill -- it's the writing and direction of those films, frankly. I think Goyer wrote what he wished Superman was -- as a fan of dark characters like Batman and Blade -- as opposed to having a strong love for the character to start with. I also liked Superman best so far in Justice League, and he wasn't even in it all that much. Away from Goyer and Snyder, the right writer and director combo could put together a great Superman movie with Cavill. It doesn't need to be the second coming of Chris Reeve, like Singer and Brandon Routh's also-failed attempt. It can be a modern Superman that reflects the modern comics, but also embraces the Boy Scout aspects inherent in his character. What Marvel did with Captain America ultimately kind of shows how and pisses all over whatever Goyer and Snyder were attempting with their take.
halfmadjesus David Goyer in my view needs to step away from screenwriter. He's overrated and comes off as a complete a-hole. I mean his comment on Martian Manhunter speaks volumes of this. He's given praise for Nolan's films, but Nolan rewrote massive portions of all of his screenplays. And I say this as someone who isn't crazy for Nolan. MOS needed someone like JMZ or more competent to write it. Because, you can have a grounded, more serious Superman and still have bits of levity. Superman Earth One is a brilliant example and is a better take on MOS. And Henry Cavill to me did the best job that he could. And JL, you could tell Whedon had influence with Superman and he was so good. Yeah, the green screen stuff with his mouth looked bad. But past that; he's what I wanted to see. And I want an MOS2 movie with Cavill. Get someone, like Dennis Villanuve or even George Miller and you got yourself a potentially great movie.
My personal take on Goyer is that he's a good "ideas" writer. He was able to come up with a compelling mythology for Blade, gave the Nolans broad strokes to be able to put together the Dark Knight films, etc. He's not really a great finished screenplays writer. And he should probably stick to more morally dark characters like Batman and Blade. I think Villanuve is not right for Superman. George Miller maybe, but it depends on the specific take he has. Maybe time to think outside the box a bit -- look for promising young talent like Marvel does, who could implement a vision someone like a Geoff Johns might be able to convey to them. WB should probably utilize guys who understand the comic book characters like Johns, Paul Dini, Bruce Timm in the concept and writing stages. In fact, they should never again start shooting anything without a completed, iron-clad script. Completely awesome script means improved chances for a completely awesome movie.
halfmadjesus Personally, in my view, WB should stick with established directors. Or at the very least, if picking indie directors, stop picking them for the same of being indie. This was painfully evident with LF and SWs as Lord and Miller and Edwards fell into that category and Kathleen Kennedy was trying to be Feige. Kevin Feige doesn't pick indie directors randomly out of a hat for style points. He makes sure the directors are right for the project. It is why the Russo Brothers and James Gunn were such big hits. As for Superman, there are a load of stories that one can go with him. DCEU fans often use the Reeve films and paint a strawman that general audiences just cannot handle a Superman outside of that. BS. Reeves Superman is like Adam West's Batman in that it was an era of the character. And these characters can change and have different adaptations that stick to their core premise. And for me, a director who likes Superman and understands his importance is needed. Snyder and everyone producing clearly did NOT like Supes at all. And I say this as someone who dug MOS.
Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman already appeared together in Batman V Superman; so they just added a shitty looking Aquaman that looks nothing like the superhero people all grew up with and an equally shitty looking Cyborg, plus Flash who people can see a superior version on TV for free. What's the draw for the average moviegoer? People hated Batman V Superman this just looks like more of the same.
I think they should cancel the Gotham City Sirens, Nightwing, Harley Quinn, Batgirl and Suicide Squad 2. If they want to succeed, they should focus on their main characters. I'm desperate for a solo Superman movie and a Flash movie. I wouldn't mind Cyborg considering he's a founding member of the Justice League. But I would love to see Henry Cavill return as a lead for a lighter Superman. And of course I would love to see Batman movies. Sad that Ben Affleck is most likely to leave though, but I can't blame him. Out of all actors, he had the most pressure. He was a great Batman, but in bad films. Which is unfair on him.
Me, I'd go the opposite direction: rather than focusing on the main characters when the people making the movies clearly have no idea how to use them, go with whichever characters and stories someone has a solid idea for - if someone has a solid pitch for Gotham City Sirens, make that rather than forcing them to make Man of Steel 2.0. It does require having someone in the decision-making process who can recognise a good pitch for a comic-book movie, but it's a lot better than taking someone who's said in interviews that they don't like Superman as a character and asking him to make a Superman movie...
+Supermovies The big audiences are now thinking DC’s name as dirt. Superman sucks in their eyes (mainly due to BvS and Snyder). Batman is just a dumb killer (again Snyder). Wonder Woman? Great, but in JL she was dreadful. Maybe calm that down a bit. Make the audience want more of her. The Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg, hole into their movies. They should’ve been released before JL but hold onto to them, release them yearly and far apart. Give yourselves time to get productions and scripts properly finished. Do NOT try any villain centric movies. Suicide Squad utterly destroyed the chances of anything like that being successful again. Right now, the best thing to do is get a Batman film going and release it by 2018. Then a Man of Steel sequel by at least 2020. Justice League 2 before 2021? No. Hell no. Hell fucking no. JL was a train wreck. Honestly, the best idea I can think of is Flashpoint. Rewrite EVERYTHING, which still allows Wonder Woman to exist in the universe. Wipe EVERYTHING after Man of Steel from the timeline. There is nothing anyone can do to save this universe conventionally. The critical reception is a joke, the financial success is getting lower and lower, the reputation of DC (from a film standpoint) is being tarnished and mainstream audiences have been burned 3 times now. Flashpoint, an amazing film executed correctly, is the only way to save them now. Worked for X-Men amazingly.
My opinion, put the dceu on ice shut down all production and maybe try again in 5 to 10 years after a lot of thought and actual creative vision from someone who knows the brand. The current dceu is a shit show of bad ideas and worse movies and needs to just go away.
anything else that's exactly what happened in 2007-2008,they were planning to do it but they put it on hold until planning was perfect. History is going to repeat itself.
Sexy Frauke As many others have said, Wonder Woman was serviceable by movie standards (and stellar by DCEU standards). It did end in a dumb CGI-fest, but Wonder Woman contained likable characters and a less pessimistic moral outlook.
hexagons343 pessimistic... No, Marvel movies are more than enough proof that all of them are exactly the same doofus-stacked simple jokes who ruin any tension in the history.
Not all were ugly. The MOS version of Krypton was perhaps the best part of the film for me. I would love to sometime see a prequel showing Krypton in its glory years, and perhaps how Jor-el and Zod became friends.
Justice League felt like an absolute cluster fuck. You can easily tell which scenes are Snyder's and which scenes are Whedon's and it feels like a bad stitch job. The graphics were HORRIBLE and it kicks off with that embarrassing cgi moustache scene with Superman. I cringed so hard when I saw that. Those purple things growing out of the ground in the final scene looked like they were coloured with Windows Paint. They made Batman feel like the garbage George Clooney campy version, they cut so many scenes that were shown in trailers. Whedon clearly came in and reshot everything with Superman and pulled the scissors out on half the movie. At the end of BVS we are to assume Superman was about to raise from his grave but in this *SPOILER* Whedon literally has the Flash and Cyborg dig his damn grave up and use a mother box to revive him. I'm assuming Snyder had Supes come back as evil which is why we got that fight scene with the League, he may of been used as Steppenwolf's lackey and WB wanted him to reboot it so Supes was the big blue Boy Scout we all wanted. Either way, the whole moustache thing absolutely ruined scenes. This is the Justice League and they cut so much out to make it a 2 hour movie. There's so many new characters and the film gives them no time to breathe, it felt like it was over as soon as I sat down
But I think we can all agree that the films are the "Main Event" for the brand and biggest potential moneymaker. Then Toys\Merchandise , Videogames and lastly comicbooks. If the Main Event is consistently a letdown it certainly will impact the popularity with mainstream consumers
I was really annoyed by DC's New 52 revamp, but in hindsight New 52 was gold compared to marvel comics these past 3 or 4 years. If I were Bob Iger I would mandate that at least 1/3 of all books take their influence from the MCU or classic 60s - 70s Marvel
Norman Feril Actually... DC is owned by WB (Time Warner) so if WB falls, DC could as well... In the same way that (with Marvel being owned by Disney) if Disney falls, Marvel could as well, though Marvel could possibly survive easier if they don't get back all the rights to their characters, as then they'd still have that revenue (when there is some) coming in, where as WB owning all the rights to the DC characters, unless they do what Marvel did when they sold off the rights to certain characters to help keep them afloat (which DID work for a (relatively) long time...), though all DC's rights being owned by the same company that actually has a reason to not only want them to succeed, but NEED them to succeed, is a good thing as well, because that means that WB has to go back & look at what went wrong... WB is like a football coach (with producers & other production staff being assistant coach), every time their team loses, they have to go back & look over the game tapes to see what went wrong, & to make plans for the next game, & they're held accountable by the owner, directors are the quarterback, so they get to call audibles in the middle of the game, occasionally, they do get replaced, & they still have to answer to the coach, actresses & actors are like the other players, as they usually are "asked" to listen to the quarterback, & run the plays chosen by the quarterback, yet, occasionally, they can get away with running a different play, so long as they can get open, & catch the ball by doing so, & they can be cut by the coach, but usually need to coach's approval to be cut by the quarterback, investors/board of directors are like the defensive line, & the team owner all at once (as far as WHICH team they're the defensive line for depends on the movie, as some movies they have all the faith in the world in, while others, they seem quite wishy washy about, like BvS likely would've done at least slightly better in theaters, if the extra scenes that are in the extended cut were in the theatrical release, as they tied the story together a little better... Need an example?... OK... In the extended cut, they showed the dead people being burned which helped to explain why people would think that Superman killed them (though the fact they had bullet holes &/or bullets in them should've factored in at least a little...), as he could've done that with his heat vision, which at least made them thinking he was responsible for that make more sense (though, to be fair, certain other aspects made less sense due to the extended version, like Lois believing that a man who has basically lost everything, buying food meant that "he didn't know he was going to die" when there have been plenty of people who went crazy after losing their families, acted normally, then did things that they KNEW would kill them &/or get them killed (such as a person I know, who opened fire on cops (when they showed up at his mom's neighbor's house for a domestic disturbance) a few days after his wife left him because he lost his job, & his circumstances were a lot less strenuous than the circumstances of the guy in bvs, so her logic was flawed at best, as dude's spirit (as well as his body) was broken, & there are literally MILLIONS of people who wouldn't be able to come back from that, & those same people would still do all their "normal" routine until they either die, decide it's time to die, or decide that they want someone/something else to kill them, usually because they feel that their families can accept it more easily if they're killed by someone/something other than themselves...) They clearly had a hell of a lot more faith in the Wonder Woman movie (personally, I feel that movie sucked, but, I'm happy knowing that I'm in the minority in feeling that way, as that movie's success made it where people felt that maybe, just maybe, Warner may have seen their errors, & were prepared to fix things...), unfortunately, fans are like pitcher's in baseball, & they've been striking out movies, tv shows, & all other forms of media for decades, actually, maybe even centuries or millennia, which is why it's kinda hard for most media to knock it out of the park...
I frankly do not believe that the Warner Bros can actually pull off the kind of movie universe that people want from comic book heroes. They are too ashamed of their properties, too afraid to show them off in their natural habitat, too unimaginative to figure out an angle that would make the most popular/famous/influential comic book characters actually show off their moves. They EVEN reached for something as ridiculously overambitious as Darkseid for their first major arc, so apparently they don't even know what pacing is. On top of that they are too greedy and mindlessly ambitious to understand that they can't do what Marvel is doing now. The end result is that the DCEU has been probably irrevocably tarnished in the cinematic field. Sad, but it is all on their heads.
Why the fuck can movie producers force critics to delay their reviews...? Isnt that the whole point of a critic, to tell you if they think its good enough to see?
Because critics get to see the movie earlier than the general audience, but to do so they need to sign the agreement that can prevent them from releasing the review earlier than the movie premiere. Worst the studio can do is make the reviews available during the premiere (which is delaying it, because the critic saw the movie days prior) or they can lift the embargo earlier and make the review accessible before the premiere. Once the movie hits theaters the studio can't do much more.
After BvS snyder should have been removed and replaced. His tone kills any joy, and his visuals make it look ugly. With the two directors and multiple reshoots this movie had completely different styles, color pallets and tones making it painfully obvious who did what. Superman was finaly portrayed correctly, but the cgi on him killed any immersion. Bens batman was hit and miss with more miss and the worst bat suit since nippleman. Flash was annoying not funny, and the fool playing him is doing more damage off screen with his agenda. Cyborg surprised me with how competent he was done, but the cgi hurt him as well. Aquaman and wonder woman were done well with what little they had to work with. I would say, with the exception of flash, the cast did well. The direction, post production, and overuse of cgi is what dragged this movie into the dumpster.
guinness4life the only thing I agree with in your comment is "Wonder Woman was great". The scripts aren't shit, they just need a few tweaks, maybe take away the gritty tone. Affleck and Cavill look and act the part. People want a film that can stand out on its own, and it needs to be faithful to the comics. The cartoon adaptation could be a great idea but they would need to establish those characters before another Justice league movie, but keep in mind that things would get lost in adaptation. No one at WB will call you. Suicide Squad was fucking terrible.
People always think the competition is DC vs Marvel. Not entirely. DC is competing with its own cinematic history. People have their own favorites from Reeves to Keaton to Nicholson to Bale and Ledger, DC has to compete with people's memories of those on top of Marvel. Credit to Marvel, their movies have been greatly planned. But they are also in the first incarnation of many of their characters. Their real test is when the actors and filmmakers have moved on and they have to deal with the results of reboots. You can already see a little fatigue with all the Spidey reboots. That said, DC should bring in Bruce Timm who masterfully created the animated series to godfather the films. Commit to the Flashpoint movie which would give them a way to reboot the stories.
WB had a successful DC shared universe in the DCAU and another in the currently-airing Arrowverse, and who did they pick to run the DCCU? Zach fucking Snyder. What were the bigwigs at WB thinking?
Just delete Man of Steel, BvS, Suicide Squad and JL. Reboot the Shit and let the first Wonder Woman stay alive. And then build the universe with love and care. No retarded rushing, no stupid plots
Put Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot in charge of everything. There's no substitute for an actually good movie on a reasonable budget, and they've shown they can do that.
So far the DC movies have been nothing but an utter disaster from the start of their cinematic universe. I really wanted this movie to be awesome, but then I heard the reviews and decided to pass on it, and I feel it's because there's no real direction as to where to go with it.
If you're interested in a movie, don't let bad reviews deter you from watching it. I actually enjoyed the movie, honestly. Sure, the CGI is quite bad but only at some points. They are just minor stuff that can easily be ignored if one is not nit picky. The good parts outweigh the bad parts anyway. You can see that clearly with the audience reception.
+Ryan Maliwat The audience reception to Justice League was horrible. Everywhere I go, I see tons of people comparing it to The Emoji Movie. And not just Marvel fans.
the funny thing is, that although MCU seems to be producer driven, the actually give lots of freedom to filmmakers, while WB entrusted the vision of the entire universe to the incompetent director, who doesn't understand the characters, the principles of DC comics and what franchise-making is. Snyderverse, that's the word. Not DC universe.
This is what happens when you give full creative control to a talentless hack like Zack Snyder instead of leaving it in the hands of producers who know what they're doing. Why he wasn't let go after the abysmal Man Of Steel I'll never know. He clearly has no respect and by the looks of it even less knowledge for the characters or the source material.
Main problems in Justice League imo were that the plot was not only boring and the villain extremely bland, but it was way too similar to avengers and might have even felt like copying it for people, with one notable alien villain with an army of nameless fodder focusing on an alien artifact that they can take over the world with. To add to that that Steppenwolf wasn't anywhere near as interesting or entertaining as Loki, as he was basically just a big strong guy who hits things, which would have been fine as a secondary villain, but not as the main villain of a team-up movie like this.
This is all a product of an attempted corporate cash grab. They saw the dollar signs at Marvel and wanted it without doing their do diligence. Their strategy is a failure. It is such a shame. I love the DC IP. It was not placed in the right visionaries hands. JL is an utterly forgettable flick.
Somebody needs to get Bruce Timm to reboot the DC Cinematic Universe, STAT! A real shame, because the casting was actually excellent. The Snyderverse is an unmitigated disaster, and WB should be ashamed of themselves. To be fair, they aren't nearly as detestable as Sony Pictures...
I said for years that DC was rushing JL. they should slow down and restructure. maybe get rid of Snyder. in the case of Matt Reeves' Batman, don't cast another big name as Bats. do a casting call and hire a new, young, up-and-coming actor. or maybe find an indie darling like Christian Bale. Chris Hemsworth was a nobody before Thor (course, I'm worried his career is gonna flatline after the MCU), Robert Downey Jr. was looking for a fresh start, Scarlet Johansson was an under-the-radar actress and now she's everywhere (for better or worse). don't force a star into a role but bring someone in to make it their own.
And that is the lesson studios should be learning... Make movies driven solely on finance and marketing with no real vision or passion and your audience can smell your cloying bullshit a mile off. When you take over half a century of storytelling and turn it into two hour trailer feeders, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE MONEY!! There is no real 'Canon' to comics; they have been re imagined, reorganised and plot lined out of existence for years. What matters is the spirit and thematic that has created and driven an industry against all odds, and is so sadly lacking in these movies. We get either cookie-cutter 'Blockbuster' Suicide Squad, where a smart comic series about villains becomes 'Anti-hero CGI-laden paint by numbers release number 500', or Batman V Superman' which sells itself on it's title but actually only has about ten minutes of anything approaching conflict between the named characters, and can't actually deliver anything approaching a coherent, character driven narrative. I couldn't do better for sure... but I'm not payed an ungodly fortune to throw this shit in front of the world.
Just wanted to thank you for this fascinating and insightful look in Justice League's flop. As a teenager who is interested in films and film making, it's really neat to see a proper dissection of the causes and effects of a film's failure. I've never really been over-the-moon for Marvel/DC comic book superhero movies, and I only really see ones in theaters which have been well received (Doctor Strange, Wonder Woman and Thor Ragnarok being my few examples). I'm certainly not going to see this one (unless I decide to review it on my second channel), however I was curious when I heard that it flopped. I personally supported the Divergent Series, and when it's third film tanked (eventually leading to the cancellation of the last installment) I firsthand experienced a franchise that I initially supported, crashing and burning due to poor handling by the studio and the filmmakers. Ever since I've been curious when a film bombs, and to see a recent DC film finally failing badly, it honestly interests me greatly. This is the perfect dissection of the film's downfall, and it honestly has made me want to check out the movie, just to see if it's really worthy of its critical mauling (something I was considering doing for the Emoji Movie, but thankfully I never did). I'm beginning to get the sense that this may be signaling the end of the big-budget, superhero, comic book based movies trend that is in full swing right now. It's probably for the best, as people are beginning to want to see something new and fresh, not just light and noise. Edit: I'm just uploading my own video on the matter and I mention your video in it (don't worry, I don't use any of your footage). Hope that's all good with you. I've mentioned multiple times that the video is yours and it should be checked out. Seriously though, it is great! :)
At this point I just feel bad for Zack Snyder and everyone involved. Yes, Snyder and company produced BVS and that movie in my view is complete garbage, even with the UC. Really, from MOS it was a step down. At this point, it is clear that WB's hubris got the better of them and they showcased just how reactionary and inept they were. And let me put this out; I enjoyed JL as a movie. Flawed, as it was; it got the team dynamic down and I like the characters That said, I agree with you, Andre. If WB goes for a full reboot or just standalone movies, it is basically them throwing in the towel and would be more of a headache for them going forward. What they should do is a soft-reboot. Aside from Aquaman and WW2, focus on a new character. Maybe, perhaps Martian Manhunter or Green Lantern. Though, the former is someone we have never seen. Get audiences acclimated into this new post Snyder DCU . And THEN focus back on the big hitters. Because, Marvel didn't do Guardians, Ant-man, Dr. Strange immediately. They focused on Iron Man, Cap, Thor and the Hulk as a means to build trust with the audience. WB needs to do this with DC. Their brand is damaged in the eyes of the general public. And they need to recover from that.
Neil Ganti I think the biggest part of the problem is that excepting Gal Gadot and Jason Mamoa, none of the cast really gets the high-end super-hero thing. Not saying they aren’t good actors, but they’re almost all totally miscast. It is possible for a Downton Abbey type to transform himself into a costumed crime-fighter (see Charlie Cox for details), but it’s not easy. And it’s harder if that costumed crime-fighter is friggin’ Superman. Then there’s a Battflck, the 11-24 female only Flash demographic & Random Black Dude Cyborg...it just doesn’t add up.
+Kelvin McBride Hahahahahah. Marvel is producing blockbuster after blockbuster, financially and critically acclaimed. But sure, they should listen to a salty dc fanboy, mad that DCU is failing, and throw all of that out of the window. Sorry, to break it to you, but Marvel is not going anywhere, while DC might. But look at the positive site, you can do with Marvel movies what I started doing with DC movies after Suicide Squad, avoid them like the plague and don't watch them.
Great video man. Great analysis of the entire franchise and I agree with pretty much every point! In my opinion it’s absolutely mind blowing that the *JUSTICE LEAGUE* are getting out performed by the *3RD SPIDER-MAN FRANCHISE AND 3RD THOR MOVIE* The fact is Spiderman and Thor actually deserve to be getting much bigger attention and praise than DC. The project may have been a close and personal one for Snyder but with Whedon and WB getting involved we’ve ended up with this weird freak of a hybrid that’s trying to be 50/50 The Dark Knight and Avengers....yet failing spectacularly at trying to be both. And let’s not forget the horrible top lip CGI for Supes.... *DOO YUU BLEED.....*
Oh how I recall how all the DC fanboy were telling everyone on the IMDB forums just how Justice League was going to destroy both Marvel and Star Wars in the box office and become the biggest grossing movie of all time smashing all records and now look at that bunch of emo's lmfao.
I also remember how those some people said that Avengers 1 would fail because it was impossible to make a team movie. And how they said Guardians of the Galaxy would flop uber hard and destroy Marvel Studios.
Say what you will about the Marvel movies but, they took the time to lay the ground work and establish the main characters individually before the big team up to save the world. They "earned" it DC tried to skip to the end.
DCs whole approach to these characters have been an unmitigated disaster, and that is as it should be. Man of Steel introduced us to a Superman who humanity was supposedly in abject terror of. The franchise ran off the rails right there. That is not who Superman is and not how he should have been treated. They only aggravated the situation by giving us the abysmal B v S where both characters are borderline psychotic. Again, totally out of character for these two icons of superheroes. JL just continued the dim, dreary tone and it suffered as it should have for that. They have about destroyed the DC universe and they have no one to blame but themselves. The ONLY ray of sunshine was the WW movie. And for good reason. Unlike the other movies, WW was true to her history in the comics. Upbeat, caring, and likable. You totally had to root for her. The comparison between WW and the other movies was as plain as plain could be. Bring back the DC characters we loved and you will save the franchise.
Everyone did not want a boy scout dip shit - look at all these MCU johnny come latelys trying to pile on. MCU is about at overload point - none of the latetest films have done as well - the comic film genre is headed to a crash - right with Black Panther. Implosion. The jokes will ene there.
Dude Superman was supposed to be an icon of hope and justice. I love my Smallville superman because it was my introduction to that character. And i think that's common for most of my generation. They destroyed Superman for me in DCEU. Also i disagree that MCU is overloaded. They didn't add all of their characters into one movie. They are in phase 3 about to go in to phase 4 with infinity war. So it doesn't feel overstuffed to casual audience. And all the latest Marvel movies this year crossed 850 million mark which is almost 1 billion. And both Thor and GoTG Vo2 made more money than their previous movies. So saying comic film genre is going to crash is only exclusive to DC. Marvel is pretty safe at this point.
The MCU will likely be the cause of the demise of the comic film genre. They are putting out too many generic kid friendly comic shmaltz every year. Comic films are heading the way of the Western. A dead genre. Thanks MCU and your insane fan base. The films are making less and less. No more Billion making MCU films - not a single one in 2017. Comic fatigue - thanks MCU.
Kelvin McBride There are no more billion dollar superhero movies? Ok there were none in 2017 but Thor Ragnarok made 850 million out of 180 budget. It's 400 million and 200 million higher than the 2nd and 3rd Thor movies. Not only was it financially successful it was critically successful too. Then you have GotG volume 2 which got 863 million which is also at least 100 million dollars higher than its first movie. Then you have Spiderman homecoming which also got almost 900 million at the box office. All of these solo Marvel movies came close to 1 billion with budgets between 130-180 million. So even if they didn't cross 1b mark they are winners. Don't blame Marvel for DC's failure to make good superhero movies. And saying superhero movies are going down hill because JL underperformed at the box office is just your DC fanboy self calling unreachable grapes sour. You want a 1 billion superhero movie to put your doubts about the future of superhero movies to rest, wait till Infinity War.
The scene where Superman has all the other lesser heroes trapped at the memorial (or whatever it was) made me LOL as it looked when Mongo had the townspeople trapped behind the piano in "Blazing Saddles." I expected Bugs Bunny to show up with "CandyGram for Superman!" with Kryptonite laced candies.
Hey Andre, I will say, this has been a wonderful year hearing from y'all talking about DC in the aftermath of the "BvS Disaster of 2016", it was fun while it lasted. ;D To admit, me and my Pops enjoyed _Justice League_ , in my head it wasn't exactly something to break the champagne out over, but it was "dumb-yet-fun", but the re-structuring is *_very_* obvious in the film. With that said, I do agree with what you said, keep most of the actors, but make standalones first. I'd like to see more of Cavill as the "goody-two-shoes" Superman we've known. I am somewhat excited with what Matt Reeves brings to _The Batman_ mainly because I *_LOVED_* _War for the Planet of the Apes_ . But yea, I still am gonna hear and see what Warner will do now that _JL_ has come out. And have a Happy Thanksgiving. ;)
I just watched it on download. I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would, but they tried to do too much and that's unfortunate because we all know how good these films can be if the studios are patient and develop the characters.
Yes, that is true, they tried *_way_* too much in two/three movies, it would've been better if they did 6 or 7 solo films, and *_then_* do the team-up crossover movie. But that's the problem, studios have no sense of patience, they want it out *_now_* before they are fired/retired/dead.
I disagree with you...the DCEU will only damage the brand even further. They need to phase it out. Do Aquaman and Wonder Woman, but also start making totally unrelated movies, each of which working as stand-alones, but also keep the door open to connect them down the line. Because no matter what, they just can't get away from they did in Man of Steel and BvS - remember, the destroyed Smallville and Metropolis, killed Jimmy Olson, and turned both Superman and Batman into psychopaths.
I’m pretty much done with DC at this point. Maybe I’ll watch the Batman movies, but I’ll skip the rest. Justice League was the last straw. Holy shit, what a mess.
Good advices to WB at the end... and... it is so refreshing to hear someone talking about a big hollywood movie without screaming and talking fast like 95% of the youtubers. Interesting ideas delivered in a quiet manner.
So, they had to cram a bunch of time into post-production and reshoots, which ballooned the budget into 300 million, just so they wouldn't have to spend more money by pushing the release date back... which they had to anyways with the cost of the reshoots.
Think the problem is that DC has no patience in building up individual superheroes but they rather choose to jam as many superheroes into a movie as they can. And for gods sake stop giving Zach Snyder chances to direct those films. The guy can make visually good looking movies but he cant seem to do movies with an actual plot in them.
Also, a lot of people who group on Pixar are parents themselves and want to make sure their kids have the same love and Coco has a more appealing look than JL.
That BvS 'Batman sequence' everyone raves about as 'the best on film' or 'what was missing from Nolan's movies' annoys the hell out of me. It looks like a computer game sequence, but it has little grace or realism; which I think is what sets Nolan's fight sequences at such a high standard. I don't want to see video game footage, I want to see movie magic.
They shot themselves in the foot giving Snyder so much control of their universe. He set the tone AND backstory for to much, and his decisions as an 'edgy' clown made the characters difficult to like. Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen, shot in the face because he wanted to shock the audience... that's it. Batman is a mopey murderer, and I suspect there are no plans to revive Jason Todd after they just revived Superman. Unless that's the plan now, everyone dead comes back to life and goes nuts. Flash literally says he has no friends. Diana's first friends among the normal world are dead from old age or whatever else. Cyborg kind of hates himself. Aquaman is some surfer dude that has to deal with Atlantis. The Justice League has no friends outside of each other seemingly, so they're just a bunch of superpowered loners. And WB are surprised people don't connect with them? And Lex Luthor knows all their secret identities, and is a fucking spaz. With Deathstroke also in tow, will every other movie be about them kidnapping Martha again and again? I have no idea how they can fix the mess they put themselves in by letting Snyder paint their universe into a terrible corner. If for some reason the solo Batman movie tries to make him breaking into a prison the old interview with Snyder will come up, he thought making Batman dark could be achieved by having him raped in prison, keeping in mind he already filmed Affleck's naked ass in a shower for some reason. What's sad is they didn't even have to compare themselves to Marvel or even Fox to see how to make successful superhero stories, they have entire animated series and movies, and the Nolan and even older live action Batman and Superman movies to learn or build from. They could have had a ready-made audience with the Teen Titans and such if the Superman and Batman animated series or even Justice League and Unlimited felt a bit too old.
WB/DC blew a lot of goodwill in the DCEU with BvS and SS. Those titles made a lot of money because audiences were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and a second chance. The stumbling of JL was their chickens coming home to roost, as it looked like ore of the same and everyone stayed home.
Weeks before the movie got out, there has been some notable harassment allegations' about Affleck, Weadon and a producer at DCEU. So it wouldn't me if that had some impact on the box office.
MoS, BvS and SS killed the DCEU, they messed up first by rushing to compete with Avengers with no lead up with BvS and SS on the already shaky ground set by MoS, those movies had awful stories with crazy plot holes and they put so many characters in them that they destroyed like 10 potential films in 1 go. They didn't learn and jumoed to Justice League too fast, they need to just do solo films, make solid stories that aren't just bootleg versions of the MCU and if/when those succeed, then you do team up movies and tie ins.
Fenris30 What do you mean how did they rush? They released a team up movie that wasted Death of Superman, (you don't do death of Superman in the JL lead up, there's no stakes and you don't have killer Batman right before SS and JL cuz he's a bigger criminal than the entire SS combined minus Enchantress and the police, Waller and the JL should be against him, just to name 2 of the issues from the mountain of plot holes and BS) and like 4 other storylines in the lead up film, and they went to Justice League when they haven't even established over half the team. They rushed through loads of stories to try and skip straight to the Avengers team up without taking the time to actually make us care about the characters or set up anything in a meaningful way. Are you kidding me? You must be kidding, it's not difficult to see how all over the place the 3 team up movies were.
I fully agree with this guy's recommendations. We definitely need more good solo movie to build a proper DCEU foundation on before another big team up.
Poor Mamoa. I like the guy but he cannot seem to catch a break. While it's one of his most successful movies he's been with, Conan failed, other stuff he did didn't bring box office, got killed in GoT and now JL doesn't deliver as it should. I would be worrried about Aquaman if I was him.
He shouldn't have been casted as Aquaman in the first place. He looks nothing like the character in comics. Would it kill WB to cast younger actors for their DCEU roles. I mean RDJ was in his 40s when he did iron man but other than that all the actors in main roles in MCU started in mid to late 20s. Look at Thor who is like Aquaman's counterpart in MCU storyline vise, Chris Hemsworth was 27 when he did the movie. And he actually looks like comic book Thor. I know most DC fans think this is a joke and that they don't need silly things in their dark gritty world, but they need a new, young crazy fanboy\ fangirl base for their characters. They can't do that with middle aged uncles.
But lo and behold, Aquaman did way, way better than JL. So can't take away a little credit to Momoa, and this time also WB put their trust in the right person, James Wan.
Well done, and well researched. Good job! Basically, Marvel took its B-List (Iron Man, Thor, Hulk) and its C-List (Dr. Strange, Guardians Of The Galaxy, Ant-Man) to thoroughly out-perform DC's A-List, an A-List that appeared as an ensemble within the same movies. And let's not even get into the success of Black Panther, another C-List character of Marvel's. The animation side of DC with Bruce Timm has way better screenplays, way better storytelling. The animated "Arkham Asylum" was 10x better than the live-action "Suicide Squad." DC certainly has the talent in-house; it is not clear why such talent is not brought onto the feature films. Your essay is on-point. People stayed away from Justice League despite Wonder Woman's success just 5 months before. Justice League was a movie people have waited for ever since Christopher Reeve first donned the costume...what a shame that all Warner Brothers could come up with was this mess of a movie. If Ant-Man and The Wasp does $600million+ worldwide, DC should really just pack it in. Aquaman will get swallowed up by the Christmas release of the latest "Star Wars" movie (no matter how good Aquaman may prove to be), and unless Dwayne Johnson's box office power can help Shazzam (or will he be in Suicide Squad?) earn some lasting word-of-mouth in 2019, DC is going to have problems. Marvel's "Infinity War 2" will be the Lord-Of-The-Rings juggernaut that year, and the DC movies could get completely demolished by it.
At the time of making the video, we only had opening weekend estimates. Actuals are that «Justice League» opened to 93.8 million in its domestic opening weekend, and 278.8 million worldwide. Meaning, actuals came in even below estimates.
To put some perspective on that, «Guardians of the Galaxy» was seen by more audiences in its opening weekend than «Justice League» was.
Also, apologies for uneven audio quality. Recorded on mobile device in less than ideal conditions, while travelling.
Midnight's Edge where are the others and why it's only you?
Roundtables with the others will be forthcoming when I'm back from travelling. Till then, you'll find Robb and Tom over at Midnight's Edge After Dark.
The animated series (not the Young Justice) were almost perfect. There is no fucking way brain dead and unimaginative Hollywood can beat that. Never in a million years. Well, maybe if they return back to the good old days and ditch their regressive propaganda, SJW pandering and commie ass licking.
Midnight's Edge It's going to be an even bigger bomb than Bloated Runner 2049!
And the Hollywood leftist quacks think it's somehow the viewers fault that their movies are utter garbage and totally unwatchable...
In 1993 they used computers to make dinosaurs. Now they use it to remove mustaches. Aah technology has come a long way in 25 years
One Boring Bastard Sad but true...
sad thing is the 93 cgi looked more real...
thanks for reminding me of that stupid girl with the flashlight :p
s13 gouf, that is because Jurassic Park balanced CGI with animatronics. These days it's just straight up CGI, no practical effects, so the CGI has become noticeable, and quite frankly an eyesore.
JT Westvold it is being used where practical effects are both cheaper and better looking. Cgi is like spices, it should be used to complement and enhance, not overpower.
How is it that no one at WB understands that Zack Snyder is just a BAD storyteller? Both 300 and Watchmen were him tracing (very literally) the framework of pre-existing comic storylines. Without them he's just style with no substance. The problem isn't that the films are too light or too dark or whatever. They're BADLY told.
Finally someone sees the clear truth. He can't tell a coherent, naturally progressing story for shit. I've no idea why no one (especially WB execs) seems to get this.
Andreas Nordvall I think that could be the case
You're absolutely right. Sadly, I expected this to happen when they announced that Snyder and Goyer were in charge of man of steel.
YES
THANK U HE FUCKIN SUCKED
It's pretty ironic. Marvel's comics are tanking while DC's are going pretty well. The opposite is said for their movie counterparts.
I dunno, DC's animated films have been slacking lately, however they are still pretty good.
Though The Killing Joke was pretty disappointing.
Doctor_Darling Marvel could easily come back in the comics industry. They just have to stop being excessively PC and making sterile comics.
Doctor_Darling It would be ironic if it were true, the problem is that it isn't.
"excessively PC" Not sure what this means exactly, but Marvel wasn't at the top of their game when they were being edgy either. And if this is what I think it means, then the same can be lobbed at DC.
it's funny those few years ago when Snyder and Warner Brothers was kind of mocking Thor around the time Man of Steel came out.. now they face the facts that Thor beat the Justice League in the box office
Logician Drake If I’m honest tho, I’m not at all surprised about the fact that Thor was better. The public’s trust in the Marvel brand means that they can do out there wacky things and still have a shit ton of ppl show up to watch. Bcoz of DCs bad rep ppl decide not to c the movies even if they look good
A channel called CinemaWins said something similar in their GOTG review about that movie and u should check it out! 😊
I knew that The Justice League would be way much better than the 2012 Avengers movie, due to the success of Wonder Woman.
I was wrong. 😭
DC even thought Man of Steel will beat Iron Man 3, and that made $1.2 Billion while MoS just made $660 Million.
Sadly DC made me not care about this movie,somehow seeing the third reboot of spider-man and thor ragnarok were more exciting than the first movie about the JL
Kaz Kinnikuman you mean regular spiderman and mcu thor? Sure. I just said reshoot:the movie wasn't interesting to me,even WW got that snyder poison at the third act,i expect this to be the same
Do you think people want Dark and Gritty comic book movies anymore. I honestly ask this because Marvel is killing it with bright and colorful movies and DC is in the dumps with dark and gritty. Im honestly asking hey. Even tho i thought what happened in Thor Ragnarok was very Dark the movie itself was still bright and colorful.
Andrew O i think we are in the equivalent of the golden age of comics,were fun sold a lot.Past infinity war is where we will see the decline in profits and the studios trying new things. The problem with DC now is that they want cgi explosions and philosophical debate at the same time,(and are mediocre at both)like in WW where they were giving you a message about humanity and then screw it up with an explosion fest and a villain so generic it looks like a shiny doomsday
100% agree with your comment about Golden age of Comic book Movies with regards to Marvel. Honestly im surprised how much i loved Thor Ragnarok and i have seen it 3 times and want to see it again. 100% agree with you on WW i watched it yesterday. I don't think people have clicked yet with how good the Marvel Films have been and will become classics in the future IMHO.
Yeah, I still haven't seen it and I'v been pretty on the fence. The fact that most of the reviews I've seen say it's kind of just average aren't winning me over. And that's people I watch on UA-cam, if you consider UA-camrs critics.
How funny is it that I'm more excited to watch this video than JL?
What is JA?
got it, sorry. must have been thinking JLA I guess
OMG - I just realized I've been eagerly watching (and enjoying) more post mortems of JL, instead of seeing the movie.
My basic reason: I, a Lifelong Comic & Comic book movie fan - i.e. Thie Ideal Target Audience (!!) Simply cannot for the life of me convince any other friends or comic book fans to spare 2 hours , or $9 to go see this movie.
That's the problem.
And yes - per your comment - I clearly completely and totally relate lol le sigh
Joseph Fortunato and JOHN Henry
For the record I did see the movie and I liked it (mostly). It is worth $9 and 2hrs of your life. But, I still liked watching this video more. I guess I just really like watching midnights edge.
DC = Don't Care
WB = Why Bother?
Wis Dom LOL 😂
Wis Dom I don't agree but props for the wordplay
Wis Dom 😂🤣😂👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
the actual name of dc isnt much better. detective comics comics lol
THIS.
I don't get people dissing Wheadon when by all accounts Snyder's original cut was "unwatchable". Wheadon didn't ruin the movie. He salvaged it from being an even hotter mess.
Justice League was in a lose-lose situation. Either release the movie as it was originally intended, or give Whedon only 6 months to adjust the movie. This movie never stood a chance.
It's clear which scenes he added. They were the scenes that made the movie somewhat watchable. They had his signature style, which works far better than Zack Snyder's vision. Age of Ultron was declared a loss, but it was far, far better in every respect than this mess, and while I take anything by Rotten Tomatoes with a grain of salt, AOU was still deemed fresh, where as this one turned out to be pretty rotten. I will not pay to see JL in theaters again, and when it comes to cable, or wherever it ends up, I will most likely fast forward through most of Zack Snyder's scenes.
+guinness4life - Did you ever see Kevin Smith talking about his script for Nicholas Cage's Superman?
ua-cam.com/video/Wo2KB1dEDdk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/53hMYw8LX60/v-deo.html
synder fanboys are as bad as tobey fanboys and nolinites. Everything isn't as good as there masters stuff. Kind of sick its almost like a cult.
@guinness4life The studio release of Alexander was unwatchable garbage but the director's cut was breathtaking. The excitement when the Macedonian shepherd-soldiers entered the gardens of Babylon was unreal.
I went to watch this movie on Saturday. It was an almost empty room. I think there were about 10 people with my wife and I. And it was 19h00!
I found the movie to be enjoyable. I was enjoying laughing at the pathetic plot, the bad CGI, and the terribly unimpressive villain. So I think I had a good evening, but not the one WB was hoping for me to experience.
Now, I hear some people are asking for the "Snyder Cut" of Justice League. Ugh... Some people are desperate to try to convince others that a pile of garbage smells good!
Now, the people who are trying to justify what happened to JL, are trying to say "superhero fatigue" or "Thor Ragnarok stole audience from JL." That is just excuses. If you make a good product, people will come! Viewers are not idiots! Especially in this era of social media! Bad word of mouth spreads quickly!
WB rushed, they tried to do the same thing as Marvel. But they forgot to do what Marvel did: make viewers invested in each character. They are just shoving this extended universe down our collective throats. In addition, they turned quite a few people off their characters. So they got exactly what they deserved: failure!
I have no pity for WB...
AlwaysLookCool 729 it trash
newvelaric I saw it in a pretty full room in the middle of the week in the afternoon so your experience isn't exact or anything
Lol
Fanboy sighted!
Seriously though, I never said my experience was everyone's experience. So it also means that your experience will not represent the overall experience of the general public.
That been said, the numbers do not lie. For a movie that is supposed to be a blockbuster, JL has underperformed. Underperformed badly! It is not a perfect movie, no movie is. But I think that many people were less than forgiving than I, they chose to stay at home instead of spending like I did. I chose to go watch and make my own opinion. And my opinion is that JL is a bad movie. I did my due diligence towards my favorite movie genre and spent. But if WB continues to do bad movies like this, i will also be fed up and not show up for premieres.
WB needs to slow down and rethink things up. they have made a lot of bad decisions relating to DC properties. They have burned a lot of fans with their DC games, which were buggy as heck on launch day. Arkham City and Arkham Knight, anyone? Now they are messing up DC movies. Thank god they have yet to mess DC TV series. But if given enough time?
If DC wants to see a universe done correctly, see every first episode of the DCAU aka Dini/Timmverse. I dunno how they didn't just copy and paste the brianiac script.
Sad. Superman and batman Wonder Woman deserves better editor, the writers sucks. Some much potential in this movie and WB blew it. Shame 😡😖😢😭😖😡😡
Justice League is probably going to be beaten by a movie co-starring a talking raccoon and a twig who speaks three words.
I Am Groot! 😂
Justice League, no matter how you feel about the movie (I'm indifferent towards it for the most part), should have made waaaaaaaaaay more than $94 million on its opening weekend. I don't think I need to explain why that's goddamn embarrassing.
Hub Pie true, but there are people who say it's too early to be a bomb. But those aren't great numbers...
Self explanatory, really
I see a lot of people saying wait for the holiday weekend.
Hub Pie there are a lot of fools
Well, I mean, compared to the Avengers 1's hull, its ridiculously poor. Seems like most general people who had hope for DC are burned out after so many bad movies. Myself included.
The Rotten Tomatoes score reveal delay gets a bit more eyebrow-raising when you remember that Warner Bros. actually own a sizable portion of Rotten Tomatoes.
The Rageaholic Sorry, but Carvel is a great Superman. It’s not as if the story given was any good. Justice League was several movies too early. I also like Ben Affleck’s Batman. He shows vulnerability, the real fact the man ages. I will not watch anymore DC movies if Carvel is dropped.
The Lawyer You mean Cavill, lol! But yeah, both Cavill and Affleck do well when they have something half-decent to work with; Affleck had his best stuff in BvS while Cavill arguably has his in the latter half of JL.
@@elvellarambles9151 Affleck still seems lacking to me. There's more to Bruce Wayne than sad and broody... it's just a shame that he's portrayed this way more often.
@@ezj8262, I disagree but I know where you're coming from. The thing is, while Bruce Wayne's real character *is* morose and brooding, and that is where the drama of his character really lies, it's supposed to be countered by the role he plays as the glamourous billionaire playboy. Yet this side of his life has been seriously neglected. It's even been relegated almost to walk-on parts at gala openings and parties as if all he has to do is show up for 30 seconds. Audiences need a chance to take a breath of fresh air between times spent down in the filth of Gotham's criminal underbelly.
I'm glad to see the DCCU fail. WB deserved it for being so greedy and trying to jump at those Avenger dollars as quickly as possible. Marvel had to earn that and so does WB.
Time for the MCU to reboot - I hope all their next films fail hard. The genre is at overload - MCU got too greedy putting out too many films. They have killed the genre. Comic Film Crash is imminent.
Kelvin McBride A wild DC fanboy has appeared.A DC fanboy usually attacks the Marvel movies ingnoring the fact that they are better.Wild DC fanboys live in denial.
Kelvin McBride what can anybody do if dc movies are doing nothing
SuperTuber 2.0 marvel movies are not really better. Theyre a lot more, thats it
Marcos Recio Says the guy who hasn't figured out that you don't get to make 17 films unless you are doing something consistently right. That's not how WB's work on DCEU is working out. Lie to yourself about it all you want. Won't change the math.
I think that one major problem for the DCEU is that all of their villains are end of the world threats that come more or less out of nowhere. Zod, Doomsday, Enchantress, Steppenwolf... They all come out of nowhere to try and destroy the world with a glowy portal in the sky or something.
Ares is a way better villain, actually playing smart, having an established connection to the heroine that actually makes her question her own motivations... there's even some ambiguity as to whether Ares is even real or if it's just human nature to fight each other. Wonder Woman grows as a character a lot, too.
Still, I think that the apocalypse level threats are really a weakness of the DCEU. Look at Marvel: most of the stand alone movies have relatively localized threats. Some have larger consequences, sure, but none are going to render humanity extinct, at least for phase 1. Even Thor has a very tight scope of threat with the destroyer, being a threat to a small town rather than the whole world. This means that for the epic Avengers movies they can raise the stakes to make it clear why this threat requires everyone to work together to defeat it, while still allowing them to de-escalate for stand-alones.
Avengers can have mortal foes, but the DCEU has kinda set it up so the heroes have fought gods ect in their first outings, which leaves them with few places to grow their characters too. It's fine for stand alone movies, but if they want to rival the MCU they really needed to pace themselves better.
I actually thought that General Zod was a great villain regarding his backstory with Krypton, motivations, acting by Michael Shannon, the portrayal of his technology/henchmen, the cosmic-level one-on-one battle with Superman, and the how he still essentially won in the end (by forcing Superman to either let humanity die or give Zod a warrior’s death and feel what it is like to take a life and become the last son of Krypton). I even thought it was appropriate for Zod to pose an apocalyptic-level threat, since he just witnessed Krypton being destroyed, Superman is a cosmic-level being with the weight of the world on his shoulders, and Zod’s desire is to rebuild Kal-El’s home planet anew and force Superman to choose between the Kryptonians and humans who raised him (a goal as profound as this warrants an Earth-threatening scheme, IMO).
In my opinion, I actually think Zod is my favorite one-time villain out of the Fox X-Men movies, MCU, and DCEU. I also really liked Ares a lot for similar reasons you stated. However, I agree with you completely on Doomsday, Enchantress, and Steppenwolf.
As for Joker and Lex Luthor, the two possibly recurring villains in the DCEU so far, those had a very uneven start, so I do not feel like we got a truly satisfying portrayal of them yet. But I am still willing to see how they turn out in later movies and give the DCEU a chance in that regard.
Mark Cobuzzi: I concede the point on Zod. Honestly, when I first saw Man of Steel it felt like Zod's story, rather than Superman's. However, given that he got such a good buildup it was wasteful using him as a generic doomsday villain.
Imagine for a moment if he had arrived and, rather than going for intimidation from the word go, had extended the hand of friendship. Ask Superman for help, rather than hold the world hostage. Pull the whole "saviors from the stars" routine, coming in and using some kryptonian technology to cure cancer or whatever. Bring in G Gordon Godfry to do an interview. Then, intrepid reporter Clark Kent digs a bit deeper and discovers that the cures for cancer are rendering people servile, and Zod's endgame is to enslave the puny humans and terraform the planet via the new "communication relays" that people are willingly helping to set up? Have superman get discovered and fight his way out, and the movie ends with Clark Kent breaking the story to the world.
Cut to Batman vs Superman. Zod has naturally come out and said this is all lies and propaganda, which Bruce Wayne is willing to lend at least some credibility to because one of the lives saved by Zod's technology is Alfred. However, being Batman he is still going to look into it because he's Batman, and taking something like that as true just on faith is not how he works. So Batman appears in Clark Kent's bedroom one night to interrogate him, find out more about the story. He does his whole mysterious thing. Superman now has reason to consider Batman a threat, because he just showed up in his bedroom! What if Lois had been there?!?
The two costumed heroes meet, both wary of the other, and they begin to argue. Something happens, orchestrated by Zod or even Luthor, who is working with Zod as part of a plan to turn the invasion on its head and come out ruling humanity with his new superhuman enforcers. Maybe some kind of airborne drug that increases aggression. The two get into a fight. Just as it looks like Batman is about to kill Superman with a Kryptonite Batarang or something, the throw is blocked by a shield as Wonder Woman intervenes. The spirit of compassion calms the pair down and reveals that she has evidence for Batman of the Kryptonian conspiracy. The three join forces but agree that an army of Kryptonians is not something they can save the world from alone.
A few lead-in movies later, all ending around the same time in universe with WW recruiting the heroes like a superhuman Nick Fury, and the Justice League forms to expose Zod and defeat him. Batman and WW work on strategy together. Batman has a bunch of anti-Kryptonian weaponry stockpiled just in case, so he is fighting on a pretty even footing here and outfits the others with any gear needed to take down Kryptonians if they need it. WW gets to train everyone up a bit, in a montage. Then they do a combined media blitz thanks to Cyborg, revealing to the world the Kryptonian plan, while the league goes for a decapitation strike against the Kryptonian command. Finally we get the big battle, with Superman Vs Zod, WW taking on several henchmen at once, Batman dueling with Zod's right hand man, Cyborg hacking systems and turning their own ship against them, Aquaman beating down mooks and calling on creatures of the sea to kick all kinds of ass, and Flash making sure no-one dies by evacuating the city in a matter of seconds before returning to provide support by tying the Kryptonians up with Kryptonian materials, that sort of thing.
Much of the city is destroyed but thanks to Flash no-one dies, and Zod and his forces are defeated and taken into custody deep underground where no sunlight can reach so they cannot recharge their powers. Cut to Lex Luthor, getting a phone call from the mayor and saying "Of course Lexcorp will handle the rebuilding."
once the phone call ends he turns to Mercy and gives a small, smug smile and says "While perhaps not an ideal outcome, this exercise has still proven rather profitable. This so called Justice League, though... they may be a problem. You have the files?"
And Mercy hands him a wad of files with the names of various supervillains clearly visible to the audience, setting up that Lex is the mastermind villain for the next phase of the movies.
Yes, an overarching plot for 3 movies is a bold move, but it would make for something very different from Marvel and potentially invest people even harder. A gamble, but one which might pay off big if handled well. Plus, it gives a good chance to have Zod and Luthor be very different villains to what we are used to, with the Heroes not even knowing that Luthor is a villain until a good way through phase 2!
+1 hour ago
I did not have the chance to respond until now, but I thought your ideas on how to incorporate Zod as a recurring villain (like Magneto and Loki in the Fox X-Men films and MCU) sounded really cool. I was happy with the use of Zod, by one-time villain standards, but now that I read your comment, part of me is now really curious to imagine what the DCEU might have been like if it went down a direction like that.
Besides what you already mentioned, the main issues I still have so far with the overall DCEU is:
1.) How we never got to see a solo Batman movie prior to Dawn of Justice (which could have given valuable context to why this version of Batman has finally snapped and is so out of character that he kills criminals in cold blood, has zero faith in humanity, thinks about killing Superman and asking questions later, and needs to witness Superman’s act of self-sacrifice as the wake-up call to return to his old moral code). At some point, I feel that casual audiences should also be shown what happened to Jason Todd, and not just given an Easter Egg of the vandalized Robin Suit and expected to do “homework,” to understand a significant basic reason why this Batman became so unhinged.
2.) Doomsday was introduced in a manner that made him lack the little bit of pathos and character motivation that his comic-book counterpart possessed (in order to incorporate Doomsday into the plot of BvS, they basically had to dumb down his background lore and origin story into an apparent knock-off of Nuclear Man, while making Lex Luthor act more like the nihilistic chaos-loving Joker, as he unleashes a world-destroying monster without even a plan to control it, just so humanity can see Superman die).
3.) This Batman went through a phase where he broke his no-kill rule, yet the DCEU never addresses why the Joker was still alive and roaming free out in the open, during the events of Suicide Squad. One would think the Joker would be the first person Batman could be driven to kill, and the only reason I can imagine for why the Joker would still be alive after Batman snapped is if the Joker has already been locked away for years now without any more break-outs (as in “The Dark Knight Returns”) or Batman somehow thought the Joker was already dead when he wasn’t.
4.) They killed off Superman only to bring him back shortly afterwards with so little time in between. I had no problem with the resurrection itself of Superman in Justice League and the ways it was handled (for a variety of reasons I could write a separate paragraph on), but I really think WB should have made more movies taking place in between BvS and JL, besides SS. That could have been the DCEU’s opportunity to show how the humanity is reacting to the loss of Superman, becoming more vulnerable while also striving to follow in his footsteps to build a better world in honor of his legacy. For instance, this could have been the perfect opportunity to make a Steel movie, where John Henry Irons is inspired by Superman’s act of self-sacrifice to become a superhero himself bearing the Superman symbol. But instead of taking a great opportunity to explore into that, the sudden jump from BvS to Justice League, with only Suicide Squad happening in between, comes off as “Oh no! Superman has died! What will his sacrifice mean for humanity? Will we learn to follow his example and reach for the stars like him? How will we do without him? Imagine the possibili... WAIT HOLD ON!!! STEPPENWOLF IS ATTACKING THE EARTH!!! NEVERMIND ALL THAT... BRING SUPERMAN BACK NOW!!!”
I still feel that Wonder Woman 2017 is one of my favorite comic-book movies, Man of Steel was a decent origin story for Superman despite its flaws, and that the Justice Lesgue movie (at least what I saw from the theatrical cut) is a baby step in the right direction, in terms of making these larger-than-life characters feel human and fun to watch together. I will have to keep waiting and see if the DCEU as a whole gets better.
+Mark Cobuzzi
Here's my biggest problem with Zod and co being the DCEU's starter villains: You have an army of soldier kryptonians in power armour that you are taking on in a direct fight, and this is NOT a big enough threat for the league?
I mean, trained soldiers with advanced tech who are on superman's level, and a significant number of them to boot. If that isn't a threat worth forming the Justice League over...
Also, it might be because I'm a fan of the DCAU but for MoS having Lex Luthor openly and directly involved with events feels wrong. I would have pulled a "World's Finest" and had Luthor hire Joker as part of his plan, underestimating the man's madness. Then Joker is the one who unleashes Doomsday. Or something. The finale should not have been Lex in jail, it should have been Lex getting awarded the rebuilding contracts to show that his plan had him come out ahead in every possible eventuality.
I do completely agree with all of your points and would like to expand on a couple:
1) They really needed to take things slow, give every character their own movie in the leadup. Suicide Squad could have been replaced with a Batman movie, since it really doesn't add to anything in the DCEU so far and was unrelated to the Darkseid metaplot. Hell, a Flash movie with about the same level of stakes and lighthearted/serious ratio as Ant Man would have been a great fit and have potentially established the character as funny without having to make every line a joke.
2) This 100%. It is rare that you can take a character who is, at his core, more or less a force of nature and then strip him of what little characterization he has, but they did. I mean, would it not have been better for Lex to have been using Kryptonian tech to build his iconic warsuit and fight Superman himself rather than "Surprise Doomsday!" as the final boss? I wouldn't have particularly liked that either but it would have felt more like "Lex's schemes keep failing to beat superman so he decides to do it himself", with bonus points for being a kind of mirror to Batman's earlier fight and his power armour.
If keeping Doomsday as is was somehow vital, then as I said before, having Lex hire Joker and then having Joker unleash Doomsday would have been a bit better. Not a lot but a bit. Or having Lex in another country and do it remotely, intending to profit off the destruction. I mean putting him in prison wasn't important as he broke out offscreen between movies.
3) YES! In the Arkham games there is only one time when Batman ever intentionally murders someone, and that is *Spoiler* near the end of Knight in a hallucination. Yes no-one actually dies, but he would have done it if that individual was really there. And it is POWERFUL because it shows just how far Batman has been pushed. And directly after that Batman hangs up the cowl.
4) Yes. The biggest loss wasn't killing Superman. It was not bringing him back. It is that they wasted the only chance they will likely ever get to pull a death of superman in the movies. Ever. It has now been done, and any reboot that does it will be dramatically weakened because it has been done. So the fact that they wasted killing off their big iconic character, something that Marvel hasn't even toyed with... I am disappointed.
While I disagree about Man of Steel (really hated that movie and its overly pretentious Randian philosophy and religious overtones), I agree that Wonder Woman was a great movie. I think my favorite Superhero movie might be Deadpool (What?!? I just really like Deadpool! Don't judge me!), then Iron Man, Dark Knight, and Thor Ragnarok and Winter Soldier battling it out for a hotly contested 4th place, but the only reason WW is not on that list is that in the last decade and a half we have had a LOT of good superhero movies so the field is rather crowded.
I would happily see Justice League again, which is not a claim that most of the DCEU can make from me (I never actually finished MoS, I walked out of the cinema after they killed Zod and never looked back). It had a strength to it: It didn't take itself too seriously, and it didn't seem to disdain its source material.
real
can you talk about why the animated dc stuff seems to work but the live actions don't
Big alzo Vision Probably in an upcoming roundtable.
Excellent question.
+Midnight's Edge
do a future update of the power rangers franchise next. centrevez vectra
Because animated films are normally self contain stories so they are more focus character and storytelling wise. They don't have to worry with " this film has to kick off 50 more films blah blah blah we need to shove in these characters for future films blah blah blah they need to fun and quirky or the audience wont like it blah blah blah" you get my point.
Big alzo The animated movies have one problem, the majority of their solo films are Batman-focused with most DC characters restricted to team-up movies. Even their Justice League Dark movie robbed the B and C-list supernatural heroes a chance to shine because they shoved in Batman and made him the main protagonist.
Okay stop for just a minute. Can we address those costumes? How can they look worse every single time I see them in a new photo? I've already repeatedly described Flash's costume as a rejected concept from the Robocop reboot's costume parade and it's only gotten worse since then, Superman looks like the steel Heroforge mini I painted with Testors that looked way too shiny and wet for no good reason, Aquaman looks like some extra who wandered off the set of Game of Thrones half-dressed, and I won't even address the low-budget cosplayer with the red LEDs.
Why does DC hate money? Did Sony hold a seminar for how to fuck everything up, sponsored by EA?
sixtopian you're honestly nothing but a hater. The costumes look great. Don't know wtf you're on about
@EdwardHowton Bill Finger Jerry Siegel Joe Schuster an other DC comic book legends that created these characters are turning in their Graves right now
sixtopian i didn't notice anything other than the movie was bright. Supermans costume in this looked great. It looked better than his BvS and MoS one imo
EdwardHowton agreed as an example the CW Flash costume is so much better than the movie version.
Flash's costume just needs some nipples and it would be alright.
This did not look like a 300 million dollar movie. Also it's sad that the far worse Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad did far better. After Wonder Woman this is probably the next best DCEU movie even with all its many flaws. At least they got the characters right for once.
Best Bout Gaming the spend all the money in the cgi mustache problem
I'm guessing the re-shoots weren't cheap. We don't know how many there were, or how expensive each one was. Plus I'm pretty sure Joss Whendon got paid, so there's that. I wouldn't be too surprised if the budget was supposed to be in the 240-270m range, and re-shoots brought it up to this.
But yeah CGI mustache removable, totally worth it. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheaper for Warner to just pay the MI guys enough to CG a mustache on or anything, that would make too much sense.
+Best Bout Gaming Because if you thing about it, it was not a 300 million dollar movie, it was a far cheaper movie, but done at least two times.
What does it matter how much it cost? Were you happy or disgusted when you left the theater?
Victius6 it matters because the more it cost, the harder it will be to get a sequel. So if you loved it and wanted more, it's a lot less likely. Meanwhile if you hated it, doesn't really matter.
you are right
DC should soft reboot their movies
Thor Ragnarok is like a soft reboot on the Thor character
DC should do the same. specially with Superman
dimitreze although they really screwed up the death of superman storyline they can use it as a soft reboot
dimitreze I'm sick of Superman !!
I thought Thor 1 was really good
dimitreze In Man of Steel he had great adversaries to fight but that wasn't the case in Batman vs Superman and even worse in Justice League. These movies are only as good as the movie's bad guy. Dark Knight is a great example of that. Heath Ledger's Joker was the best of all time.
We haven't even seen the real Superman yet.
I only went for the moustache. Genius WB Genius.
Finally, someone who is discussing the facts instead of shouting their opinions as loud as possible
You are so right about Momoa being Lobo. What a colossal miscasting. Sheesh!
Yep I totally agree with you he would of been perfect for Lobo.
JOHN Henry : Movies? As in plural? What are you on about, Derpamous Maximous? The movie was meh. Momoa was miscast. But you're entitled to your ill-informed opinion. Now fuck off back into the depths of the internet, ya' dingus.
guinness4life Though, fantastic four and captain America were produced by different studios
+JOHN Henry What A dumbfuck.
And now Aquaman - played by Jason Momoa - has grossed over a billion dollars and it's still in theaters. Face it: y'all were wrong. Maybe you can write for The Atlantic if you look smug enough.
Very, very minor thing, but I really appreciate the professionalism with which your channel times the ads. On almost every other channel I watch they are simply random and cut sentences in half. As I said, a very, very minor thing, but thank you!
edpistemic Thanks! Ads are necessary, regrettable as that may be - but we do try to make them as unobtrusive as possible.
Making terrible movies has caught up to WB, just look at what's happening to the transformers series as of its last film
Transformers isn't ending, it was Michael Bay's last film. Bumblebee movie is coming out next year with Transformers 6 the year after that.
Galactic Specter transformers is not dead idiot there's a bumble bee movie next year but Michael bay is leaving the franchise
100% agree.
What you didn't see Galactic Specter, is yes its true, they aren't making money in the US anymore. Not even close to what the first made. HOWEVER, those movies make a crapton of money overseas, and thus they will keep making them.
As of its last film? Didn't you see parts 2, 3 and 4? That franchise has been off my radar since the second film, I couldn't stomach another and I understand they didn't get any better.
The second they declared this movie a bomb I was WAITING for this video!!
Andre you were right about the prediction that DC/WB are the headless chickens running around
Its funny how Marvel B and C list characters are higher rated and make more money than a movie with ALL of DCs A-listers
Jason Momoa as Lobo? Holy Shit, they need to hire you.
Someone at the WB needs to hire you to save the DCEU🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌👍
Oh dear...... Not good news. This very bad for WB and it's a sign that they clearly have not learned their lessons. Wonder Woman gave me some hope, but this news is terrible. The DC brand right now is damaged. WB have only themselves to blame.
Again, I say one of the big issues has always been that WB is trying to copy Marvel instead of focusing on making their movies the best they possibly can. They are always reacting to what audiences are saying about Marvel and changing course all the time to try and catch up. They should not be catching up, they should be concentrating on their own movies and making them fantastic, believing in their project and showing it.
That WB held the reviews off is a sign of a lack of faith in their project, if Justice League was great and WB believed in it, they would be shouting it from the rooftops, they would be getting reviews out extremely early and showing the audience "we believe in DC and the characters, JL is great and we are glad to present it". Positive promotion. That they held back is the opposite.
What I feel they should do now is concentrate on Aquaman and Wonder Woman and make them as great as possible, forget about the DC universe, what's done is done. Concentrate on having Aquaman be a awesome film, same with Wonder Woman. Focus on those two movies and don't do things on the fly, make a plan and stick to it. Focus, don't react. Stop worrying about Marvel and focus on your movies. Will they do it though? Past behavior indicates no. I expect they will edit Aquaman to the point of butchering it and Wonder Woman 2 will have reshoots and people coming and going bringing a whole bunch of whack ideas to the table.
Very sad for the actors involved in this and very sad for DC. This is not what should have happened. WB should bow their heads over this madness. This is their fault completely.
AlwaysLookCool 729 What’s to be positive about? Justice League has not done well. Unless you think DC failing is a good thing....
AlwaysLookCool 729 I did also state that WB should have used positive promotion for the movie and that then holding back on the reviews was a negative on their part. It showed a loss of confidence. I wish I could put something positive and happy for you. But I can’t. This is not a positive story.
Yet they still have an Oscar and MCU has none.....lmfao
Kelvin McBride The DC films do not have an Oscar. The award was given to the late Heath Ledger for his role in The Dark Knight, no DC film has won an Oscar.
+ShaunTheCHB Suicide Squad won an Oscar... for makeup and hairstyling. Not something I would consider is worth bragging about when their movies are losing money and the cinematic universe is dying, while there biggest competitor is making a blockbuster after blockbuster.
Well the fact the trailers all LOOKED boring and uninteresting was a good hint it was going to be an equally uninteresting movie.
TheMythof Feminism i concur, Although BvS turned out to be a dud their trailers did pique my interest & thus i wasted $5 after the movie.
kris guntner
JL trailers were masterpieces.What are you talking about? The whole reason I saw the movie was because the trailers looked so good.The movie was shit though.
If you like the trailers,and the movie,that's fine but I didn't lav.
I think most of the trailers marvel has put out for their movies have been much more exciting,presentation wise,then d.c's of late whatever you may think of the marvel movies themselves.
Deadpool 1 trailers also were INSANELY well done for getting fans excited whether you liked the movie or not.
The heroes are supposed to be the light in the darkness....not the darkness.
Even wolverine and the PUNISHER,two of the most brutal comic characters,are being presented as empathetic humans we can relate to but the latest superman has been depicted to cold and distant more like a god on high rather then a god hiding among mortals AS a mortal ie clark kent,batman is nearly punisher level violent when he's supposed to OUT THINK the enemy not out brutalize them,etc....
They have lost too much of their humanity something you almost always see shine through in the animated movies.
Whoever does the cartoons should do the live action movies.
kris guntner
I didn't say Marvel trailer weren't good.The Guardians 2,Black Panther and Ragnarok trailer were amazing.Just the Homecoming trailers were meh.
You are right,DC wants to keep their universe so dark and gritty that they do it at the expense of the character's personalities.Superman was finally done right in JL.He isn't supposed to brood and question if he should save people.It's his job.Wonder Woman and Batman are the only characters they have got right.Batman in BvS was the perfect Batman minus the killing part.Then they ruined him in JL.Hope they don't ruin WW too.
suicide squad had an amazing trailer and so did bvs and JL.
suicide squad and bvs did well in box office while JL did not
You should handle the line-up of DCEU films. It's amazing how fans and regular people understand what would work over studio executives. One only see's money, the other see's a movie with potential.
JL is soooo dark, I had to bring a flashlight into the theater to see what was on the screen.
hahahaha. The funniest thing i heard today. Also true.
It feels weird calling this the *Culmination* of the DCEU thus far, if you’re looking for a satisfying conclusion to Dc’s first chapter you’re gonna get little to no payoff for sitting through the last 4 movies
What's wrong with the DCEU? Two words. ZACK. SNYDER.
Georgeous76
Two words: Warner Brothers*
Teemo6544 Right Answer!
@@Fenris30 Four words, ZACK SNYDER, WARNER BROTHERS.
@@Nano-if3ie How is Zack's Superman any different than in the comics? Christopher Reeve did not play a comic accurate Superman at the time his movie came out cause at the time Clark Kent was a News Anchor for WGBS News yet no one bitched about it cause it took commitment back then to protest something cause all you had was snail mail. You had to buy some stamps, write a letter, find a fucking mailbox, wait for a reply if one came at all. Who's got that kinda time. Hell the one thing they bragged about most was seeing him fly believably. Screw the fact that he was willing to break the laws of nature to save a chick he only knew for a day or two. That he fell for the oldest trick in the book even though he took twelve years of his dad's space college and learned all the knowledge of the known universe. Zack created a working man's Superman. A guy who had to earn out trust not just be given it, just as we had to earn his.
The DC fixes you stated were almost verbatim what I was saying a few days ago. It's the foundations that need fixing, so all attention needs to be paid to that. No reboot attempt via Flashpoint -- that will fail, and also convince audiences for sure that WB and DC don't know WTF they're doing, and simply react to everything. Focus all energies on making Aquaman and Wonder Woman 2 100% super-awesome stand alones. Do the same for a rebranded Superman movie and franchise with Cavill. Fire Ben Affleck's non-committed, drunk ass and replace him with an actor who at least seems like he wants to be there. Get a solid Matt Reeves Batman movie off the ground. Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Batman in place and working as franchises -- AKA the foundation -- THEN branch out to Suicide Squad 2, Shazam, other heroes, maybe even a Justice League 2 down the road.
Agreed. Many people think a Flashpoint movie would solve everything. It won't. You can soft-reboot without making it a big deal. Aquaman and WW2 are good starting points and from there, go with Cavill as Superman. Because, I'm going to be honest; Cavill after JL is my favorite live action movie take on Superman. I love Reeves, but man; Cavill in JL got the character that I wanted. And he's got the look for him. I never say that about any actor playing a character. But Superman, given how is iconography is in his physicality, Cavill fits that so well.
And yeah, then move forward with JL2 and other spinoffs.
I'm not a fan of Man of Steel or Batman v Superman, but never blamed that on Cavill -- it's the writing and direction of those films, frankly. I think Goyer wrote what he wished Superman was -- as a fan of dark characters like Batman and Blade -- as opposed to having a strong love for the character to start with. I also liked Superman best so far in Justice League, and he wasn't even in it all that much.
Away from Goyer and Snyder, the right writer and director combo could put together a great Superman movie with Cavill. It doesn't need to be the second coming of Chris Reeve, like Singer and Brandon Routh's also-failed attempt. It can be a modern Superman that reflects the modern comics, but also embraces the Boy Scout aspects inherent in his character. What Marvel did with Captain America ultimately kind of shows how and pisses all over whatever Goyer and Snyder were attempting with their take.
halfmadjesus David Goyer in my view needs to step away from screenwriter. He's overrated and comes off as a complete a-hole. I mean his comment on Martian Manhunter speaks volumes of this. He's given praise for Nolan's films, but Nolan rewrote massive portions of all of his screenplays. And I say this as someone who isn't crazy for Nolan.
MOS needed someone like JMZ or more competent to write it. Because, you can have a grounded, more serious Superman and still have bits of levity. Superman Earth One is a brilliant example and is a better take on MOS. And Henry Cavill to me did the best job that he could. And JL, you could tell Whedon had influence with Superman and he was so good. Yeah, the green screen stuff with his mouth looked bad.
But past that; he's what I wanted to see. And I want an MOS2 movie with Cavill. Get someone, like Dennis Villanuve or even George Miller and you got yourself a potentially great movie.
My personal take on Goyer is that he's a good "ideas" writer. He was able to come up with a compelling mythology for Blade, gave the Nolans broad strokes to be able to put together the Dark Knight films, etc. He's not really a great finished screenplays writer. And he should probably stick to more morally dark characters like Batman and Blade.
I think Villanuve is not right for Superman. George Miller maybe, but it depends on the specific take he has. Maybe time to think outside the box a bit -- look for promising young talent like Marvel does, who could implement a vision someone like a Geoff Johns might be able to convey to them. WB should probably utilize guys who understand the comic book characters like Johns, Paul Dini, Bruce Timm in the concept and writing stages. In fact, they should never again start shooting anything without a completed, iron-clad script. Completely awesome script means improved chances for a completely awesome movie.
halfmadjesus Personally, in my view, WB should stick with established directors. Or at the very least, if picking indie directors, stop picking them for the same of being indie. This was painfully evident with LF and SWs as Lord and Miller and Edwards fell into that category and Kathleen Kennedy was trying to be Feige.
Kevin Feige doesn't pick indie directors randomly out of a hat for style points. He makes sure the directors are right for the project. It is why the Russo Brothers and James Gunn were such big hits. As for Superman, there are a load of stories that one can go with him. DCEU fans often use the Reeve films and paint a strawman that general audiences just cannot handle a Superman outside of that. BS.
Reeves Superman is like Adam West's Batman in that it was an era of the character. And these characters can change and have different adaptations that stick to their core premise. And for me, a director who likes Superman and understands his importance is needed. Snyder and everyone producing clearly did NOT like Supes at all. And I say this as someone who dug MOS.
Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman already appeared together in Batman V Superman; so they just added a shitty looking Aquaman that looks nothing like the superhero people all grew up with and an equally shitty looking Cyborg, plus Flash who people can see a superior version on TV for free. What's the draw for the average moviegoer? People hated Batman V Superman this just looks like more of the same.
CelestialWoodway justice League makes bvs look good.
I think they should cancel the Gotham City Sirens, Nightwing, Harley Quinn, Batgirl and Suicide Squad 2. If they want to succeed, they should focus on their main characters. I'm desperate for a solo Superman movie and a Flash movie. I wouldn't mind Cyborg considering he's a founding member of the Justice League. But I would love to see Henry Cavill return as a lead for a lighter Superman. And of course I would love to see Batman movies. Sad that Ben Affleck is most likely to leave though, but I can't blame him. Out of all actors, he had the most pressure. He was a great Batman, but in bad films. Which is unfair on him.
Me, I'd go the opposite direction: rather than focusing on the main characters when the people making the movies clearly have no idea how to use them, go with whichever characters and stories someone has a solid idea for - if someone has a solid pitch for Gotham City Sirens, make that rather than forcing them to make Man of Steel 2.0.
It does require having someone in the decision-making process who can recognise a good pitch for a comic-book movie, but it's a lot better than taking someone who's said in interviews that they don't like Superman as a character and asking him to make a Superman movie...
+Supermovies
The big audiences are now thinking DC’s name as dirt. Superman sucks in their eyes (mainly due to BvS and Snyder). Batman is just a dumb killer (again Snyder). Wonder Woman? Great, but in JL she was dreadful. Maybe calm that down a bit. Make the audience want more of her.
The Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg, hole into their movies. They should’ve been released before JL but hold onto to them, release them yearly and far apart. Give yourselves time to get productions and scripts properly finished.
Do NOT try any villain centric movies. Suicide Squad utterly destroyed the chances of anything like that being successful again.
Right now, the best thing to do is get a Batman film going and release it by 2018. Then a Man of Steel sequel by at least 2020.
Justice League 2 before 2021? No. Hell no. Hell fucking no. JL was a train wreck.
Honestly, the best idea I can think of is Flashpoint. Rewrite EVERYTHING, which still allows Wonder Woman to exist in the universe. Wipe EVERYTHING after Man of Steel from the timeline.
There is nothing anyone can do to save this universe conventionally. The critical reception is a joke, the financial success is getting lower and lower, the reputation of DC (from a film standpoint) is being tarnished and mainstream audiences have been burned 3 times now. Flashpoint, an amazing film executed correctly, is the only way to save them now. Worked for X-Men amazingly.
Agree except that Ben was a shit batman. Christian Bale was much better
Rudy Enciso no he wasn't Ben showed more detective skills in one movie then bale did in 3 movie
Supermovies true
My opinion, put the dceu on ice shut down all production and maybe try again in 5 to 10 years after a lot of thought and actual creative vision from someone who knows the brand. The current dceu is a shit show of bad ideas and worse movies and needs to just go away.
anything else that's exactly what happened in 2007-2008,they were planning to do it but they put it on hold until planning was perfect. History is going to repeat itself.
Yeah....I had forgotten that first attempt. Unfortunately I think your right. This shouldn't be so hard to get correct but apparently it is.
"ugly" is the perfect word to describe my impression of the DC movies.
Made me stop watching them after Man of Steel
Sexy Frauke
As many others have said, Wonder Woman was serviceable by movie standards (and stellar by DCEU standards). It did end in a dumb CGI-fest, but Wonder Woman contained likable characters and a less pessimistic moral outlook.
It also contains Claire Underwood so I am probably gonna give this one a chance at some point.
hexagons343 pessimistic... No, Marvel movies are more than enough proof that all of them are exactly the same doofus-stacked simple jokes who ruin any tension in the history.
Not all were ugly. The MOS version of Krypton was perhaps the best part of the film for me. I would love to sometime see a prequel showing Krypton in its glory years, and perhaps how Jor-el and Zod became friends.
Justice League felt like an absolute cluster fuck. You can easily tell which scenes are Snyder's and which scenes are Whedon's and it feels like a bad stitch job. The graphics were HORRIBLE and it kicks off with that embarrassing cgi moustache scene with Superman. I cringed so hard when I saw that. Those purple things growing out of the ground in the final scene looked like they were coloured with Windows Paint. They made Batman feel like the garbage George Clooney campy version, they cut so many scenes that were shown in trailers. Whedon clearly came in and reshot everything with Superman and pulled the scissors out on half the movie. At the end of BVS we are to assume Superman was about to raise from his grave but in this *SPOILER* Whedon literally has the Flash and Cyborg dig his damn grave up and use a mother box to revive him. I'm assuming Snyder had Supes come back as evil which is why we got that fight scene with the League, he may of been used as Steppenwolf's lackey and WB wanted him to reboot it so Supes was the big blue Boy Scout we all wanted. Either way, the whole moustache thing absolutely ruined scenes. This is the Justice League and they cut so much out to make it a 2 hour movie. There's so many new characters and the film gives them no time to breathe, it felt like it was over as soon as I sat down
The "DC brand" is fine. It's WB's version of DC that's the problem.
But I think we can all agree that the films are the "Main Event" for the brand and biggest potential moneymaker. Then Toys\Merchandise , Videogames and lastly comicbooks. If the Main Event is consistently a letdown it certainly will impact the popularity with mainstream consumers
I was really annoyed by DC's New 52 revamp, but in hindsight New 52 was gold compared to marvel comics these past 3 or 4 years. If I were Bob Iger I would mandate that at least 1/3 of all books take their influence from the MCU or classic 60s - 70s Marvel
Norman Feril Actually... DC is owned by WB (Time Warner) so if WB falls, DC could as well... In the same way that (with Marvel being owned by Disney) if Disney falls, Marvel could as well, though Marvel could possibly survive easier if they don't get back all the rights to their characters, as then they'd still have that revenue (when there is some) coming in, where as WB owning all the rights to the DC characters, unless they do what Marvel did when they sold off the rights to certain characters to help keep them afloat (which DID work for a (relatively) long time...), though all DC's rights being owned by the same company that actually has a reason to not only want them to succeed, but NEED them to succeed, is a good thing as well, because that means that WB has to go back & look at what went wrong... WB is like a football coach (with producers & other production staff being assistant coach), every time their team loses, they have to go back & look over the game tapes to see what went wrong, & to make plans for the next game, & they're held accountable by the owner, directors are the quarterback, so they get to call audibles in the middle of the game, occasionally, they do get replaced, & they still have to answer to the coach, actresses & actors are like the other players, as they usually are "asked" to listen to the quarterback, & run the plays chosen by the quarterback, yet, occasionally, they can get away with running a different play, so long as they can get open, & catch the ball by doing so, & they can be cut by the coach, but usually need to coach's approval to be cut by the quarterback, investors/board of directors are like the defensive line, & the team owner all at once (as far as WHICH team they're the defensive line for depends on the movie, as some movies they have all the faith in the world in, while others, they seem quite wishy washy about, like BvS likely would've done at least slightly better in theaters, if the extra scenes that are in the extended cut were in the theatrical release, as they tied the story together a little better... Need an example?... OK... In the extended cut, they showed the dead people being burned which helped to explain why people would think that Superman killed them (though the fact they had bullet holes &/or bullets in them should've factored in at least a little...), as he could've done that with his heat vision, which at least made them thinking he was responsible for that make more sense (though, to be fair, certain other aspects made less sense due to the extended version, like Lois believing that a man who has basically lost everything, buying food meant that "he didn't know he was going to die" when there have been plenty of people who went crazy after losing their families, acted normally, then did things that they KNEW would kill them &/or get them killed (such as a person I know, who opened fire on cops (when they showed up at his mom's neighbor's house for a domestic disturbance) a few days after his wife left him because he lost his job, & his circumstances were a lot less strenuous than the circumstances of the guy in bvs, so her logic was flawed at best, as dude's spirit (as well as his body) was broken, & there are literally MILLIONS of people who wouldn't be able to come back from that, & those same people would still do all their "normal" routine until they either die, decide it's time to die, or decide that they want someone/something else to kill them, usually because they feel that their families can accept it more easily if they're killed by someone/something other than themselves...) They clearly had a hell of a lot more faith in the Wonder Woman movie (personally, I feel that movie sucked, but, I'm happy knowing that I'm in the minority in feeling that way, as that movie's success made it where people felt that maybe, just maybe, Warner may have seen their errors, & were prepared to fix things...), unfortunately, fans are like pitcher's in baseball, & they've been striking out movies, tv shows, & all other forms of media for decades, actually, maybe even centuries or millennia, which is why it's kinda hard for most media to knock it out of the park...
Which is the DC brand. Stop skirting.
I frankly do not believe that the Warner Bros can actually pull off the kind of movie universe that people want from comic book heroes. They are too ashamed of their properties, too afraid to show them off in their natural habitat, too unimaginative to figure out an angle that would make the most popular/famous/influential comic book characters actually show off their moves. They EVEN reached for something as ridiculously overambitious as Darkseid for their first major arc, so apparently they don't even know what pacing is.
On top of that they are too greedy and mindlessly ambitious to understand that they can't do what Marvel is doing now. The end result is that the DCEU has been probably irrevocably tarnished in the cinematic field.
Sad, but it is all on their heads.
Why the fuck can movie producers force critics to delay their reviews...? Isnt that the whole point of a critic, to tell you if they think its good enough to see?
Because critics get to see the movie earlier than the general audience, but to do so they need to sign the agreement that can prevent them from releasing the review earlier than the movie premiere. Worst the studio can do is make the reviews available during the premiere (which is delaying it, because the critic saw the movie days prior) or they can lift the embargo earlier and make the review accessible before the premiere. Once the movie hits theaters the studio can't do much more.
It's part of the agreement they make to see the films early and get access to other inside scuttlebutt, etc.
IKR
After BvS snyder should have been removed and replaced. His tone kills any joy, and his visuals make it look ugly. With the two directors and multiple reshoots this movie had completely different styles, color pallets and tones making it painfully obvious who did what. Superman was finaly portrayed correctly, but the cgi on him killed any immersion. Bens batman was hit and miss with more miss and the worst bat suit since nippleman. Flash was annoying not funny, and the fool playing him is doing more damage off screen with his agenda. Cyborg surprised me with how competent he was done, but the cgi hurt him as well. Aquaman and wonder woman were done well with what little they had to work with. I would say, with the exception of flash, the cast did well. The direction, post production, and overuse of cgi is what dragged this movie into the dumpster.
s13 gouf wpuld you say they done gouf'd?
guinness4life the only thing I agree with in your comment is "Wonder Woman was great". The scripts aren't shit, they just need a few tweaks, maybe take away the gritty tone. Affleck and Cavill look and act the part. People want a film that can stand out on its own, and it needs to be faithful to the comics. The cartoon adaptation could be a great idea but they would need to establish those characters before another Justice league movie, but keep in mind that things would get lost in adaptation. No one at WB will call you. Suicide Squad was fucking terrible.
Also cut the budgets. Your movies are too expensive.
People always think the competition is DC vs Marvel. Not entirely. DC is competing with its own cinematic history. People have their own favorites from Reeves to Keaton to Nicholson to Bale and Ledger, DC has to compete with people's memories of those on top of Marvel.
Credit to Marvel, their movies have been greatly planned. But they are also in the first incarnation of many of their characters. Their real test is when the actors and filmmakers have moved on and they have to deal with the results of reboots. You can already see a little fatigue with all the Spidey reboots.
That said, DC should bring in Bruce Timm who masterfully created the animated series to godfather the films. Commit to the Flashpoint movie which would give them a way to reboot the stories.
Garry M I never thought of it that way. Imagine a reboot of iron man with a completely different cast and story.
Well i mean DC is competing with Marvel, they are rushing their movies to catch up while Marvel takes it's time.
WB had a successful DC shared universe in the DCAU and another in the currently-airing Arrowverse, and who did they pick to run the DCCU? Zach fucking Snyder. What were the bigwigs at WB thinking?
WB: People still like Grimdark right?
ZS: Yes
WB: Sold!
*people are being killed in the streets*
WB: Zack~!
ZS: My daughter is dead~!
+Sam Lucas I don't have any problems believing that's how it went.
Another fantastic video my good sir. Thank you!
Just delete Man of Steel, BvS, Suicide Squad and JL. Reboot the Shit and let the first Wonder Woman stay alive. And then build the universe with love and care. No retarded rushing, no stupid plots
Put Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot in charge of everything. There's no substitute for an actually good movie on a reasonable budget, and they've shown they can do that.
So far the DC movies have been nothing but an utter disaster from the start of their cinematic universe. I really wanted this movie to be awesome, but then I heard the reviews and decided to pass on it, and I feel it's because there's no real direction as to where to go with it.
Cntrol100 while i liked the general premise and the "vision" of zack snyder. Most of the movies of DCEU plagues from lazy writing, imho.
If you're interested in a movie, don't let bad reviews deter you from watching it. I actually enjoyed the movie, honestly. Sure, the CGI is quite bad but only at some points. They are just minor stuff that can easily be ignored if one is not nit picky. The good parts outweigh the bad parts anyway. You can see that clearly with the audience reception.
+Ryan Maliwat The audience reception to Justice League was horrible. Everywhere I go, I see tons of people comparing it to The Emoji Movie. And not just Marvel fans.
the funny thing is, that although MCU seems to be producer driven, the actually give lots of freedom to filmmakers, while WB entrusted the vision of the entire universe to the incompetent director, who doesn't understand the characters, the principles of DC comics and what franchise-making is. Snyderverse, that's the word. Not DC universe.
This is what happens when you give full creative control to a talentless hack like Zack Snyder instead of leaving it in the hands of producers who know what they're doing. Why he wasn't let go after the abysmal Man Of Steel I'll never know. He clearly has no respect and by the looks of it even less knowledge for the characters or the source material.
Main problems in Justice League imo were that the plot was not only boring and the villain extremely bland, but it was way too similar to avengers and might have even felt like copying it for people, with one notable alien villain with an army of nameless fodder focusing on an alien artifact that they can take over the world with. To add to that that Steppenwolf wasn't anywhere near as interesting or entertaining as Loki, as he was basically just a big strong guy who hits things, which would have been fine as a secondary villain, but not as the main villain of a team-up movie like this.
they even had 3 tesseracts,but no nick fury.
This is all a product of an attempted corporate cash grab. They saw the dollar signs at Marvel and wanted it without doing their do diligence. Their strategy is a failure. It is such a shame. I love the DC IP. It was not placed in the right visionaries hands. JL is an utterly forgettable flick.
Somebody needs to get Bruce Timm to reboot the DC Cinematic Universe, STAT! A real shame, because the casting was actually excellent. The Snyderverse is an unmitigated disaster, and WB should be ashamed of themselves. To be fair, they aren't nearly as detestable as Sony Pictures...
or FOX!
I said for years that DC was rushing JL. they should slow down and restructure. maybe get rid of Snyder. in the case of Matt Reeves' Batman, don't cast another big name as Bats. do a casting call and hire a new, young, up-and-coming actor. or maybe find an indie darling like Christian Bale. Chris Hemsworth was a nobody before Thor (course, I'm worried his career is gonna flatline after the MCU), Robert Downey Jr. was looking for a fresh start, Scarlet Johansson was an under-the-radar actress and now she's everywhere (for better or worse). don't force a star into a role but bring someone in to make it their own.
And that is the lesson studios should be learning... Make movies driven solely on finance and marketing with no real vision or passion and your audience can smell your cloying bullshit a mile off.
When you take over half a century of storytelling and turn it into two hour trailer feeders, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE MONEY!!
There is no real 'Canon' to comics; they have been re imagined, reorganised and plot lined out of existence for years. What matters is the spirit and thematic that has created and driven an industry against all odds, and is so sadly lacking in these movies.
We get either cookie-cutter 'Blockbuster' Suicide Squad, where a smart comic series about villains becomes 'Anti-hero CGI-laden paint by numbers release number 500', or Batman V Superman' which sells itself on it's title but actually only has about ten minutes of anything approaching conflict between the named characters, and can't actually deliver anything approaching a coherent, character driven narrative.
I couldn't do better for sure... but I'm not payed an ungodly fortune to throw this shit in front of the world.
Just wanted to thank you for this fascinating and insightful look in Justice League's flop. As a teenager who is interested in films and film making, it's really neat to see a proper dissection of the causes and effects of a film's failure. I've never really been over-the-moon for Marvel/DC comic book superhero movies, and I only really see ones in theaters which have been well received (Doctor Strange, Wonder Woman and Thor Ragnarok being my few examples). I'm certainly not going to see this one (unless I decide to review it on my second channel), however I was curious when I heard that it flopped. I personally supported the Divergent Series, and when it's third film tanked (eventually leading to the cancellation of the last installment) I firsthand experienced a franchise that I initially supported, crashing and burning due to poor handling by the studio and the filmmakers. Ever since I've been curious when a film bombs, and to see a recent DC film finally failing badly, it honestly interests me greatly. This is the perfect dissection of the film's downfall, and it honestly has made me want to check out the movie, just to see if it's really worthy of its critical mauling (something I was considering doing for the Emoji Movie, but thankfully I never did).
I'm beginning to get the sense that this may be signaling the end of the big-budget, superhero, comic book based movies trend that is in full swing right now. It's probably for the best, as people are beginning to want to see something new and fresh, not just light and noise.
Edit: I'm just uploading my own video on the matter and I mention your video in it (don't worry, I don't use any of your footage). Hope that's all good with you. I've mentioned multiple times that the video is yours and it should be checked out. Seriously though, it is great! :)
Thanks for the kind words, glad you find the video to be illuminating. Look forward to checking out your video.
At this point I just feel bad for Zack Snyder and everyone involved. Yes, Snyder and company produced BVS and that movie in my view is complete garbage, even with the UC. Really, from MOS it was a step down. At this point, it is clear that WB's hubris got the better of them and they showcased just how reactionary and inept they were. And let me put this out; I enjoyed JL as a movie. Flawed, as it was; it got the team dynamic down and I like the characters That said, I agree with you, Andre. If WB goes for a full reboot or just standalone movies, it is basically them throwing in the towel and would be more of a headache for them going forward.
What they should do is a soft-reboot. Aside from Aquaman and WW2, focus on a new character. Maybe, perhaps Martian Manhunter or Green Lantern. Though, the former is someone we have never seen. Get audiences acclimated into this new post Snyder DCU . And THEN focus back on the big hitters. Because, Marvel didn't do Guardians, Ant-man, Dr. Strange immediately. They focused on Iron Man, Cap, Thor and the Hulk as a means to build trust with the audience. WB needs to do this with DC. Their brand is damaged in the eyes of the general public. And they need to recover from that.
Neil Ganti I think the biggest part of the problem is that excepting Gal Gadot and Jason Mamoa, none of the cast really gets the high-end super-hero thing. Not saying they aren’t good actors, but they’re almost all totally miscast. It is possible for a Downton Abbey type to transform himself into a costumed crime-fighter (see Charlie Cox for details), but it’s not easy. And it’s harder if that costumed crime-fighter is friggin’ Superman. Then there’s a Battflck, the 11-24 female only Flash demographic & Random Black Dude Cyborg...it just doesn’t add up.
None of this makes the MCU look any better - they need a hard reboot themselves from kiddie fare.
+Kelvin McBride Hahahahahah. Marvel is producing blockbuster after blockbuster, financially and critically acclaimed. But sure, they should listen to a salty dc fanboy, mad that DCU is failing, and throw all of that out of the window. Sorry, to break it to you, but Marvel is not going anywhere, while DC might. But look at the positive site, you can do with Marvel movies what I started doing with DC movies after Suicide Squad, avoid them like the plague and don't watch them.
@@knightatl2819 Infinity war box office says hi.
@@Nano-if3ie Suicide Squad's OSCAR says Hi right back.
Whoa, this is one the best analysis I've seen. Well done bud.
Great video man. Great analysis of the entire franchise and I agree with pretty much every point!
In my opinion it’s absolutely mind blowing that the *JUSTICE LEAGUE* are getting out performed by the *3RD SPIDER-MAN FRANCHISE AND 3RD THOR MOVIE*
The fact is Spiderman and Thor actually deserve to be getting much bigger attention and praise than DC.
The project may have been a close and personal one for Snyder but with Whedon and WB getting involved we’ve ended up with this weird freak of a hybrid that’s trying to be 50/50 The Dark Knight and Avengers....yet failing spectacularly at trying to be both.
And let’s not forget the horrible top lip CGI for Supes....
*DOO YUU BLEED.....*
Someone told me 3 years ago that "DC will win this cinematic war!" I hope I find that guy again.
This is one of the most complete and thorough autopsies of a movie I have ever seen. Well Done.
Oh how I recall how all the DC fanboy were telling everyone on the IMDB forums just how Justice League was going to destroy both Marvel and Star Wars in the box office and become the biggest grossing movie of all time smashing all records and now look at that bunch of emo's lmfao.
This comment deserves praise for the Schadenfreude.
I also remember how those some people said that Avengers 1 would fail because it was impossible to make a team movie. And how they said Guardians of the Galaxy would flop uber hard and destroy Marvel Studios.
Amazing video Midnight's Edge!
Great work Midnight's Edge - really enjoyed the video.
I don't know why producers of films don't start out with the script and get that absolutely right before even thinking about shooting.
Say what you will about the Marvel movies but, they took the time to lay the ground work and establish the main characters individually before the big team up to save the world. They "earned" it DC tried to skip to the end.
PAUL Burrows it's not the end. It was the beginning.
DCs whole approach to these characters have been an unmitigated disaster, and that is as it should be. Man of Steel introduced us to a Superman who humanity was supposedly in abject terror of. The franchise ran off the rails right there. That is not who Superman is and not how he should have been treated. They only aggravated the situation by giving us the abysmal B v S where both characters are borderline psychotic. Again, totally out of character for these two icons of superheroes. JL just continued the dim, dreary tone and it suffered as it should have for that. They have about destroyed the DC universe and they have no one to blame but themselves. The ONLY ray of sunshine was the WW movie. And for good reason. Unlike the other movies, WW was true to her history in the comics. Upbeat, caring, and likable. You totally had to root for her. The comparison between WW and the other movies was as plain as plain could be. Bring back the DC characters we loved and you will save the franchise.
Everyone did not want a boy scout dip shit - look at all these MCU johnny come latelys trying to pile on. MCU is about at overload point - none of the latetest films have done as well - the comic film genre is headed to a crash - right with Black Panther. Implosion. The jokes will ene there.
Dude Superman was supposed to be an icon of hope and justice. I love my Smallville superman because it was my introduction to that character. And i think that's common for most of my generation. They destroyed Superman for me in DCEU.
Also i disagree that MCU is overloaded. They didn't add all of their characters into one movie. They are in phase 3 about to go in to phase 4 with infinity war. So it doesn't feel overstuffed to casual audience. And all the latest Marvel movies this year crossed 850 million mark which is almost 1 billion. And both Thor and GoTG Vo2 made more money than their previous movies. So saying comic film genre is going to crash is only exclusive to DC. Marvel is pretty safe at this point.
Spoken by the MCU loving fan group here....lol. The DCEU is fantastic. Not shake and bake kids heroes of the MCU.
The MCU will likely be the cause of the demise of the comic film genre. They are putting out too many generic kid friendly comic shmaltz every year. Comic films are heading the way of the Western. A dead genre. Thanks MCU and your insane fan base. The films are making less and less. No more Billion making MCU films - not a single one in 2017. Comic fatigue - thanks MCU.
Kelvin McBride
There are no more billion dollar superhero movies? Ok there were none in 2017 but Thor Ragnarok made 850 million out of 180 budget. It's 400 million and 200 million higher than the 2nd and 3rd Thor movies. Not only was it financially successful it was critically successful too. Then you have GotG volume 2 which got 863 million which is also at least 100 million dollars higher than its first movie. Then you have Spiderman homecoming which also got almost 900 million at the box office. All of these solo Marvel movies came close to 1 billion with budgets between 130-180 million. So even if they didn't cross 1b mark they are winners.
Don't blame Marvel for DC's failure to make good superhero movies. And saying superhero movies are going down hill because JL underperformed at the box office is just your DC fanboy self calling unreachable grapes sour. You want a 1 billion superhero movie to put your doubts about the future of superhero movies to rest, wait till Infinity War.
Besides wonder woman, barely, DC movies are meh to me. Then they released that stupid question/answer thing with Flash/WW. I was out at that point.
This was the best analysis of JL I have seen. I wish you did stuff like this more often!
nebula1400 Maybe I will, going forward
Handing the reigns of the DCEU to Zack Snyder was Warner Bros greatest mistake.
The scene where Superman has all the other lesser heroes trapped at the memorial (or whatever it was) made me LOL as it looked when Mongo had the townspeople trapped behind the piano in "Blazing Saddles."
I expected Bugs Bunny to show up with "CandyGram for Superman!" with Kryptonite laced candies.
At this point Ryan Reynold’s Green Lantern looks like a masterpiece that understood the source material in comparison to to the DCEU.
Hey Andre, I will say, this has been a wonderful year hearing from y'all talking about DC in the aftermath of the "BvS Disaster of 2016", it was fun while it lasted. ;D
To admit, me and my Pops enjoyed _Justice League_ , in my head it wasn't exactly something to break the champagne out over, but it was "dumb-yet-fun", but the re-structuring is *_very_* obvious in the film.
With that said, I do agree with what you said, keep most of the actors, but make standalones first. I'd like to see more of Cavill as the "goody-two-shoes" Superman we've known. I am somewhat excited with what Matt Reeves brings to _The Batman_ mainly because I *_LOVED_* _War for the Planet of the Apes_ .
But yea, I still am gonna hear and see what Warner will do now that _JL_ has come out. And have a Happy Thanksgiving. ;)
I just watched it on download. I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would, but they tried to do too much and that's unfortunate because we all know how good these films can be if the studios are patient and develop the characters.
Yes, that is true, they tried *_way_* too much in two/three movies, it would've been better if they did 6 or 7 solo films, and *_then_* do the team-up crossover movie. But that's the problem, studios have no sense of patience, they want it out *_now_* before they are fired/retired/dead.
I disagree with you...the DCEU will only damage the brand even further. They need to phase it out. Do Aquaman and Wonder Woman, but also start making totally unrelated movies, each of which working as stand-alones, but also keep the door open to connect them down the line. Because no matter what, they just can't get away from they did in Man of Steel and BvS - remember, the destroyed Smallville and Metropolis, killed Jimmy Olson, and turned both Superman and Batman into psychopaths.
Fantastic and concise coverage.
I’m pretty much done with DC at this point. Maybe I’ll watch the Batman movies, but I’ll skip the rest. Justice League was the last straw. Holy shit, what a mess.
Good advices to WB at the end... and... it is so refreshing to hear someone talking about a big hollywood movie without screaming and talking fast like 95% of the youtubers. Interesting ideas delivered in a quiet manner.
So, they had to cram a bunch of time into post-production and reshoots, which ballooned the budget into 300 million, just so they wouldn't have to spend more money by pushing the release date back... which they had to anyways with the cost of the reshoots.
Think the problem is that DC has no patience in building up individual superheroes but they rather choose to jam as many superheroes into a movie as they can. And for gods sake stop giving Zach Snyder chances to direct those films. The guy can make visually good looking movies but he cant seem to do movies with an actual plot in them.
Justice League won't make $700 million worldwide.
By the end of this weekend. Coco > JL.
alanguages Yep word of mouth is strong with Coco.
Also, a lot of people who group on Pixar are parents themselves and want to make sure their kids have the same love and Coco has a more appealing look than JL.
How funny/sad is it that Ant-Man may earn more than Justice League?
Last Wednesday Coco made $13+ million, and JL is at $10+ million. The DECU fanboys meltdown might go nuclear after the end of the weekend.
What is Coco?
That BvS 'Batman sequence' everyone raves about as 'the best on film' or 'what was missing from Nolan's movies' annoys the hell out of me. It looks like a computer game sequence, but it has little grace or realism; which I think is what sets Nolan's fight sequences at such a high standard. I don't want to see video game footage, I want to see movie magic.
They shot themselves in the foot giving Snyder so much control of their universe. He set the tone AND backstory for to much, and his decisions as an 'edgy' clown made the characters difficult to like.
Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen, shot in the face because he wanted to shock the audience... that's it.
Batman is a mopey murderer, and I suspect there are no plans to revive Jason Todd after they just revived Superman. Unless that's the plan now, everyone dead comes back to life and goes nuts.
Flash literally says he has no friends.
Diana's first friends among the normal world are dead from old age or whatever else.
Cyborg kind of hates himself.
Aquaman is some surfer dude that has to deal with Atlantis.
The Justice League has no friends outside of each other seemingly, so they're just a bunch of superpowered loners. And WB are surprised people don't connect with them?
And Lex Luthor knows all their secret identities, and is a fucking spaz. With Deathstroke also in tow, will every other movie be about them kidnapping Martha again and again?
I have no idea how they can fix the mess they put themselves in by letting Snyder paint their universe into a terrible corner. If for some reason the solo Batman movie tries to make him breaking into a prison the old interview with Snyder will come up, he thought making Batman dark could be achieved by having him raped in prison, keeping in mind he already filmed Affleck's naked ass in a shower for some reason.
What's sad is they didn't even have to compare themselves to Marvel or even Fox to see how to make successful superhero stories, they have entire animated series and movies, and the Nolan and even older live action Batman and Superman movies to learn or build from. They could have had a ready-made audience with the Teen Titans and such if the Superman and Batman animated series or even Justice League and Unlimited felt a bit too old.
WB has always had problems with making use of comic book IP.
Why is anyone shocked that they'd fuck up a massive DC movie franchise?
Bravo Bravo Bravo!!! Great and totally honest video! Man, you're on a roll! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
WB/DC blew a lot of goodwill in the DCEU with BvS and SS. Those titles made a lot of money because audiences were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and a second chance. The stumbling of JL was their chickens coming home to roost, as it looked like ore of the same and everyone stayed home.
this analysis is thoughtful and spot-on. Kudos.
Weeks before the movie got out, there has been some notable harassment allegations' about Affleck, Weadon and a producer at DCEU. So it wouldn't me if that had some impact on the box office.
don't tell me you actually believe the whole sexual harassment allegations bullshit do you?
Whedon never had harassment allegations... as for Ben who knows
1shoryuken, probably not.
If I remember correctly, Whedon only cheated his wife with someone while working on movies but was with consent. So no harassment there.
Yeah, how curious there's always shooting and tape accusations every time a dc movie is about to come out...
This was a nicely thought out and put together video. I really enjoyed it.
I am watching your upload right after Midnight in here the UK... I guess I am on the Edge
Learned a lot from this, Thanks for posting!
MoS, BvS and SS killed the DCEU, they messed up first by rushing to compete with Avengers with no lead up with BvS and SS on the already shaky ground set by MoS, those movies had awful stories with crazy plot holes and they put so many characters in them that they destroyed like 10 potential films in 1 go. They didn't learn and jumoed to Justice League too fast, they need to just do solo films, make solid stories that aren't just bootleg versions of the MCU and if/when those succeed, then you do team up movies and tie ins.
Maxx Nieves HOW did they rush these movie other then making them? By your logic they shouldn't have even bothered.
Fenris30 What do you mean how did they rush? They released a team up movie that wasted Death of Superman, (you don't do death of Superman in the JL lead up, there's no stakes and you don't have killer Batman right before SS and JL cuz he's a bigger criminal than the entire SS combined minus Enchantress and the police, Waller and the JL should be against him, just to name 2 of the issues from the mountain of plot holes and BS) and like 4 other storylines in the lead up film, and they went to Justice League when they haven't even established over half the team. They rushed through loads of stories to try and skip straight to the Avengers team up without taking the time to actually make us care about the characters or set up anything in a meaningful way. Are you kidding me? You must be kidding, it's not difficult to see how all over the place the 3 team up movies were.
Your plan to fix the D.C. Universe is absolutely perfect. I've been saying that for years. Keep up the great work Midnight's Edge!
I fully agree with this guy's recommendations. We definitely need more good solo movie to build a proper DCEU foundation on before another big team up.
I squee'd in delight when you said "Frankensteinian" with that beautiful pronunciation same as in the Dark Universe analysis video.
Poor Mamoa. I like the guy but he cannot seem to catch a break. While it's one of his most successful movies he's been with, Conan failed, other stuff he did didn't bring box office, got killed in GoT and now JL doesn't deliver as it should. I would be worrried about Aquaman if I was him.
He shouldn't have been casted as Aquaman in the first place. He looks nothing like the character in comics. Would it kill WB to cast younger actors for their DCEU roles. I mean RDJ was in his 40s when he did iron man but other than that all the actors in main roles in MCU started in mid to late 20s. Look at Thor who is like Aquaman's counterpart in MCU storyline vise, Chris Hemsworth was 27 when he did the movie. And he actually looks like comic book Thor. I know most DC fans think this is a joke and that they don't need silly things in their dark gritty world, but they need a new, young crazy fanboy\ fangirl base for their characters. They can't do that with middle aged uncles.
But lo and behold, Aquaman did way, way better than JL. So can't take away a little credit to Momoa, and this time also WB put their trust in the right person, James Wan.
Well done, and well researched. Good job!
Basically, Marvel took its B-List (Iron Man, Thor, Hulk) and its C-List (Dr. Strange, Guardians Of The Galaxy, Ant-Man) to thoroughly out-perform DC's A-List, an A-List that appeared as an ensemble within the same movies.
And let's not even get into the success of Black Panther, another C-List character of Marvel's.
The animation side of DC with Bruce Timm has way better screenplays, way better storytelling. The animated "Arkham Asylum" was 10x better than the live-action "Suicide Squad." DC certainly has the talent in-house; it is not clear why such talent is not brought onto the feature films.
Your essay is on-point. People stayed away from Justice League despite Wonder Woman's success just 5 months before. Justice League was a movie people have waited for ever since Christopher Reeve first donned the costume...what a shame that all Warner Brothers could come up with was this mess of a movie.
If Ant-Man and The Wasp does $600million+ worldwide, DC should really just pack it in. Aquaman will get swallowed up by the Christmas release of the latest "Star Wars" movie (no matter how good Aquaman may prove to be), and unless Dwayne Johnson's box office power can help Shazzam (or will he be in Suicide Squad?) earn some lasting word-of-mouth in 2019, DC is going to have problems. Marvel's "Infinity War 2" will be the Lord-Of-The-Rings juggernaut that year, and the DC movies could get completely demolished by it.