12 REASONS Inverter HVAC Systems are BETTER!
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- I've argued with lots of HVAC professionals across the country on whether or not it makes sense to install inverter communicating systems and save enough energy for it to make sense to spend the extra money upfront. Most argue that the math does not work out in their market.
HOWEVER, in this video, I go through 12 huge reasons why inverter communicating systems are superior! It's not just about the math anymore. Customers care about added comfort and so much more!
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0:00 Intro Higher SEER HVAC systems and Advantages
0:57 SEER Does not measure the utility savings well
1:36 Low Ambient operation for inverter HVAC
2:39 Better comfort. Less or no deadband
4:22 Sound levels are lower for Inverter HVAC systems
5:12 Better Humidity removal
5:47 Inverter HVAC last longer
8:26 Inverter HVAC systems are more affordable
8:57 Required Clearances are smaller on Inverter HVAC side discharge units
10:18 Better HVAC ratings for Inverter communicating HVAC systems
10:35 Inverter communicating HVAC systems have better warranties
11:22 Inverter communicating HVAC systems have options
11:49 Reporting of Errors and Problems
12:42 Griffin Air and New HVAC Guide
#inverter #variable #highseer - Навчання та стиль
You’re forgetting one of the biggest benefits. I can start and run my VFD “inverter” 3 ton unit with a 5500 watt generator. A traditional unit would need a 20,000 watt generator to start a 3 ton unit.
Thank you so much for sharing this info! Learned a lot about inverter system.
Very experienced service tech / supervisor and I hear all the negative comments and it boils down to knowledge , your ability to understand inverter etc and it’s easier for most techs to stay with basic systems. In my experience the majority of techs don’t understand them and they don’t want to learn anything new it’s easier to say that’s junk then to evolve.
Love your shit first UA-cam tech I have ever subscribed too.
Bosh is crushing it , I’m going to wheel an deal an put on in my house haha
*bosch* damn auto correct
Thank you for your kind words pal!
You have the cost advantage of a wholesale price and your own labor for install. Then you have the advantage of likely having parts in stock and a deal on them. It would like buying a hybrid car then having a breakdown far from home and needing to get it fixed so you can continue on your trip and no one local can fix it or carries the parts in stock.
@@howardkeil1526 It’s a Toyota. I be fine. 😆
Im from south tx and i agree with you totally. Im an older tech and ive told these younger techs you better get trained up or get left behind lol. I firmly believe in the old saying (old dogs better learn new tricks)
@raychunn3229
Can you install an Amana or Bosch 15/16/or 17 Seer 4 ton heat pump in San Antonio anytime soon?
It's just the outside unit, but it's replacing a 2007 Trane 13XR heat pump that's old freon technology.
Will I have to replace the air handler in the attic since they're probably not compatible?
When I bought my house it had two separate oil furnaces with central air units. Oddly the newest one went first and I replaced it with Mitsubishi hyperheat unit so I could start getting rid of the oil heat (no access to nat gas). I'm on my third year and there's been no problems and its a lot cheaper than oil.
I just had a Daikin inverter system put in. Replaced a pos Trane I had for only 5 years. Spent the extra and been happy with it. 12 yr warranty and I have a stress free program so filters for the whole house HEPA I got and maintenance is included.
I am primarily a Bryant dealer but have been doing a bunch more Amana high-efficiency units and some of the 98% Goodman's too. I have not installed a Daikin before but the last Amana I installed was a 98% NG modulating furnace and the top model of Heat pump. My apologizes that I don't have the models in front of me, but I am very impressed by the production quality, Stainless steel heat exchangers, plus several other little items. Some of your videos make me do research and found since Daikin took over the "used to be lower end brands" are now running with the big dogs. I would take a nicely optioned Amana over any Rheem/Ruud, Lennox, American Standard/Trane, Johnson Control systems equipment.
the compressors may last longer but its the delicate proprietary electronics that run the compressors that end up failing and cost a fortune to replace... and if one has a Heat pump or AC that is 10 years old what is the odds of finding an OEM proprietary board to replace it going to be? and it will most likely be very expensive. I suspect you have replaced more single speed compressors because there are simply more of them out there and they have been in operation for 20+ years. I do agree the multispeed compressors are going to be more energy efficient. But all that savings would be out the window as soon as one of these expensive proprietary boards fails.
I answered that concern in the video 🙂
Exactly put in a 15k Fujitsu mini-split and have been waiting for 2 boards and a fan motor, not wise in my opinion, straight cool w/heat strips, easy to fix and way less use of compressor vs HP. As I live in Az in a RV park we have 2.5-3 to. Package units that are 40 yrs old and still working fine. My park model unit is 38 yr. old Intertherm 2.5 ton w/7.5kw strips and works flawless, electric in winter highest bill was $68 and my summer highest is $140 I have reduced and added 2nd return and blows like a mad man, keeps a
75° all day long no problem!
@@althouse2 What??? I can appreciate the argument on expensive inverter boards.. But straight cool and heat strips? Obviously you don't have to pay for the customers electric bill. I am a firm believer in the main system using a NON variable speed two stage main compressor HP. and heat strips for back up. Of course I live in Indiana so we use more heat than down South. I use an 18 seer York heat pump. Its good on my electric bill.
The big argument always being comfort and sound it probably depends what part of the country you're in that has moderate temperatures where they only need to run at slow speeds for a majority of the year. Everything high tech is like that may save you some money for a while but then when you have to do repair you just lost 5 years of energy savings. I like to see a study on the full math of the full cost of ownership and operation over15 or 20 years and that cost being on a modestly sized house
I recommend power conditioner power supply if dirty power, specifically rectifier electronic boards do not like.
I just had a 3.5T Bosch inverter installed for $8300… the other option was $6600 for a Rheem from that same company. Another company wanted $14,000 for a Mitsubishi inverter.
Mr 14k called and spoke with the wife… she said, we didn’t want to spend $14,000. he replied, I’ll just call your husband because he understood the benefits 😳. that killed that deal for her even if we were leaning towards Mitsubishi. I felt the Bosch was equally as good and I understood “the benefits” of keeping the 6k difference in my pocket and not his.
We bought it on 3/1 because we wanted to avoid the late spring or summer rush and be stuck on some backlog.
How's your bosch so far? I am assuming you've only used it in heating mode? Thanks
Wow. I can’t believe how some people speak to customers!
I really like those Bosch inverter systems but they only make heat pumps right now.
@@xincai951 Awesome! it really keeps the temp spot on. it also has cut our bill by at least 1/3.
@@NewHVACGuide I wish you were closer to us!
Great video. Technology has really improved.
I bought a pioneer mini split inverter system 1 year ago. I know its a cheap brand, but I mounted it just off of my 15 passenger van bumper. I run it off of solar panels and lifepo4 batteries through a inverter. It has been awesome. I ran it 3 straight days in 95 degree summer heat before the batteries got to 10%. The ECO mode only draws about 350 to 400 watts and often it only draws 100 if its mainting the cool temp. It is extremly quiet, something I wanted for both indoor blower and the compressor being i run it while parked in parking lots like walmart. I didn't want anyone to know it was running. Never has a spike in power but just gently revs up. My only problem was it does have a small leak, I think at the flare nut going into the outdoor unit. Considering I've driven it 10k miles on interstates, over speed pumps, country dirt roads with pot holes, washboard ruts and a few accidental curb hopping incidents I'm amazed the flare connections have held up! That is the only weak part for me. But to run one of these on a solar/battery setup is just amazing to me and allows me to boondock with it. I'm ready to add one to my home office space now. Just trying to decide if I want to go cheap again with a pioneer or if it's worth the extra for a higher end brand like the diaken you install.
You should do a video on this setup. I am considering the same type system but on my 30x40 insulated shop.
Question about operating inverter system vs non inverter. Is it better to operate continually or turn on and off during the day. I live in a high humidity high temperature country. I am concerned by electrical costs. Presently I have a non inverter system that I run minimally throughout the day.
What's the best smart thermostat for a Bosch inverter heat pump? I have read that any smart thermostat except the Nest work. I currently have a Nest and am having a Bosch system installed (Bosch inverter heat pump, oil furnace that is also the air handler).
Here in S. Florida, my price of electricity went up 15% year-over-year... from 14.4 cents/KWH to 16.5. That's one more reason to go with something more energy efficient. That rate hike, even if there aren't any more, probably knocked over a year off the breakeven point on a lot of these systems. And there are likely to be more rate hikes going forward.
Got a Lennox 18 seer inverter system and I'm surprised how high tech it is. I seen the plate removed on outdoor unit and the mother board was massive!
just make sure there is a surge protector going into the condenser, because of all the sensitive electronics. if the motherboard goes out, that will be pretty pricey to replace.
Great sound and great video
I'm in Tucson, AZ and preparing to replace a 5 ton rooftop-mounted packaged heat pump. I have quotes from two contractors, one who didn't even bother to climb to the roof (a non-starter) and another who seems to me to be top-drawer. My options are a American Standard (Trane,) dual-speed comp and ECM blower or a Bosch IDP. As a retired EE and techie, I'm leaning to the Bosch, which is actually a few bucks cheaper. This isn't a concern. But what is, as a radio amateur operator, I have worries about the potential for radio-frequency-interference (RFI) being generated by the inverter electronics. The EDM in the current Trane generates a bit of this but is livable. The wall-wart switch-mode power supplies that are everywhere are the bane of our existence and are often thrown away and replaced with linear supplies. Clearly, I can't do that with a heat pump. Do you have any experience with this? Love your channel.
Can you use a DC inverter compressor with a constant torque fan (in the air handler)? Or does it need to be a 2 stage air handler?
I bought a Ruud up20 this summer and have loved it so far. But…now it is fall (Oct) in Virginia (Smith Mountain Lake area) and I turned the heat on for the first time and the “electric heat” popped up on the screen. Then the humidity shot up in the house to 67% and condensation accumulated on every window. What is causing this? A tech came out but he didn’t have an answer for it and reduced the humidity level down to 40% under the dehumidification setting. This did not help and the heat caused condensation again this morning. I do not have a humidifier attached to the unit. Just wonder if you have heard of this happening. Thanks. Also, you have Great videos!
Thanks for the info on side venting models. Can they pair with NG furnaces. Would that answer be in your GUIDE if so happy to pay for it.
I have a side-discharge heat pump with a gas furnace, it will call for heat from the furnace if it's in its defrost cycle or it just can't keep up.
More good work josh- a few points, seer 1 especially is about as useful reliable accurate at government CPI published rates. I am a user an advocate of inverters simply from a comfort standpoint, esp if dont have access to dual fuel nat gas for winter. And in mild climates, reasonably tight house, may never need whole house humidification. But there are real issues you don’t address- if you have two systems in your house, no big issue if parts not available for a few days. And lets be honest,. It’s easier from service standpoint to replace modules as it’s harder to get skilled knowledgeable techs. I think you cna make a case to most clients to go inverters but of course lets be candid-inverters sales ALWASY work for the installer. More profit up front, more warranty repairs paid for by manufacturer, and more service calls after warranty expires, client comfort, etc. final point -the delta between major manufacturers of forced air units is not all that great. If you don’t have multiple havoc service providers for say daikin or Goodman in your area, you have way fewer choices Re competitive pricing and quality control commitment and even staying in business retiNign quality service crew. I’ve had communicating inverter technology from carrier, trane and Lennox in various houses and if anything I find Lennox has an edge Re features thermostats, etc, BUT it’s not significant. All have parts depots in my metro area, but fewer providers are ‘certified’ and experienced with the Lennox units. Whatever manufacturers is passing along a special sale price eat the time usually is also highly determinative of the purchase. It’s like cars. Don’t fall in love with one brand,color; and make sure you have options other than teh high priced dealer for repairs down the road when manufacturers warranty expires. I think daikin and Bosch make Greta units, but you simply aren’t going to have those service options down the road . I can find dozens of experienced carrier dealers in my area, and choose which one is delivering and continuing to deliver great service down the road. But Bosch daikin only have a few dealers with any real experience.
More profit up front, more warranty’s revive paid for by manufacturer, and more service calls... yousummed that up nicely.
Why aren't some inverters energy star certified? Like the Daikin VRV Life units, or the Daikin Fit unit? Thanks!
Do they make AC package unit that is inverter? The energy savings on that should be high but the question is should I go with effecient inverter or a true and tested 1-stage system?
my other question is whats the difference between the AC unit in most of your thumbnails that is installed on the ground and the ac package unit that comes in metal like rooms placed above roofs?
Didn't know the communicating systems could combine a furnace with a mini-split, that's pretty interesting. The quietness of mini-splits comes from being inverter based, and it's mind blowing.
@2:49 where'd you get that digital mullet filter? 😆
Haha. Showing my technology limitations.
I have watched several of your videos which have been helpful! 5 years ago we had our system replaced with a RHEEM RHMV6021SEACJA. Come to find out the EXV control board was never connected. (Identified as we are trying to figure out why humidity so high. We had previously been in a very long drought so it wasn't an issue until it has been raining alot recently) is it reasonable to at least HOPE that the humidity will improve once the communicating set up is done correctly? Other AC guys online keep telling me it is optionl control board.
I have a single stage AC and an inverter gas furnace. For me I chose a single stage AC because we only use cooling up here for a couple of months per year. The comfort of the inverter gas furnace is amazing. So so quiet. Makes me wish I had paid a little extra for an inverter AC. It’s great technology and my 13 year old Lennox inverter furnace has had 0 issues, and it’s running probably 8 months per year.
Are inverter AC's and Inverter heat pumps comparable? I was considering getting an inverter AC but i was concerned about the lack of tax credit compared to the heat pump. It has a max of 600 instead of the 2000 fkr heat pump. If thats going to be the case since itll be cheaper for me id like to know my efficiency will be comparable to heat pump of the same seer rating. It should even out of thats the case.
At some point in the future (less than 10 years), minimum SEER requirement will force you to move to inverter system in anyway.
Within today's market place, an 18 SEER simple 2-stage heat pump system that doesn't require a $4,500.00 replacement "inverter drive board" or a $1,000.00 thermostat is easy to find and have installed. The future will never become even 30 percent "inverter drive" populated until the manufacturers stop "gouging" the general public with outrageously high prices for the inverter drive equipment. Two-stage systems are virtually bullet proof.
Yes, that has a good likelihood of happening. Wouldn't have touched a variable-speed (VS) system 10 years ago due to the steep cost difference and bleeding-edge tech at the time. However, the cost differential between VS and single/2-stage units is narrowing vs 5-10 years ago. As a result, payback times are becoming shorter. As more VS units get installed, components will be more easily available & their costs will come down as well due to higher volume production. Plus, more techs will be trained to work on these systems as more are installed.
I just purchased the Diakin Fit inverter units for my PHX home, but was surprised that they still turn on and off nearly as frequently as my old single stage AC unit. I was expecting the compressor fan to stay on nearly all the time, but just run at variable speeds, so that the full on and full off behavior wasn't utilized so often. Is this frequent on/off behavior correct or should my compressor fan stay on nearly all the time at variable speeds?
Our Diakin unit is the old pueblo does the same thing. So what are the advantages of inverter technolgy that turns on and off like our "ol' fashion Trane unit which is much more reliable and trouble free?
@@Hank520Tube mine also turns off (although much less so) and on but usually only ramps up a bit at a super low capacity saving tons of energy.
so are inverters just variable rate duty cycled compressors? or is there more to it? i come from the automotive world and it sounds like a variable rate compressor.
You don't really need a communicating thermostat to benefit from inverter/modulating heat pumps. Even if it's connected to a "dumb" non-communicating thermostat, it will still be pretty smart and sense the air temperature over the indoor coil and the outside ambient air, runtime, etc and still give most of the same benefits. If it knows what your exact setpoint temp is then the PID control can react much faster, especially if residents fiddle with the temperature constantly, but in lieu of that, it will still do a decent job working out how much heat/cool load there is.
Love my Bosch 2.0
Do they make a inverter unit in package unit for for mobile homes? I live in FLorida.
Yes. Check out Bosch’s heat pump package unit.
@@NewHVACGuide Thank you for your reply! Also I appreciate you trying to help we lay people who do not understand the HVAC world!
What would you do to add to the system something to refresh the air in home. With more high efficiency homes, air inside is not so good
You can install a heat recovery ventilator (called HRV or ERV), I'm thinking of getting one. New house is too tight and the CO2 levels rapidly rise when the windows are all closed. They will exchange the inside air with fresh outside air with minimal heat losses.
@@ddud4966 thank you!!!
Thanks for the video.
What you are calling "dead band" is technically hysteresis. It's the temperature difference the unit works between to keep the room relatively close to the set temp.
There is no such thing as three phase DC. Direct current can not have a phase.
Thanks pal.
I call it what they call it. But yes. You are correct. Most homeowners don’t know what I’d be talking about if I got into rectifiers and motors powered by dc with square pulses and all that. 🙂
Just installed a Lennox Slp99 furnace and Sl25xpv heat pump 30k installed for both
That’s surge protection included uv light proper filtration
I’m in Canada so I’m not sure what that is in American dollars
I’m not sure either. I hope it keeps you comfy and happy for years to come!
Anybody know what is DC invertor? DC by default can not be modulated by frequency because DC has no frequency at all.
Brushless DC motor (compressor) speed adjustment made by voltage only or am I wrong?
Confused with 'Inverter' vs 'Variable Speed' system? Are the 2 interchangeable?
A true variable-speed AC uses an inverter to control the speed of the compressor & fan motor. You cannot have one w/o the other.
Can you please give me an example of a inverted system?
I just installed an 18 seer pioneer ducted split system. Unfortunately, I screwed up and didn't do enough research and discovered after the fact that while the unit does indeed have an inverter, and ramp the compressor up and down, it still generally acts like regular a/c unit.
I mean that as, it can only use a traditional 24v single stage thermostat. So, it starts up.. ramps up, runs for a bit...then shuts off....then starts...ramps up, runs for a bit....shuts off.
I don't hate the pioneer...I can tell by my house power monitor system it definitely varies its capacity depending on how hot it is outside and inside. I just wish I did a little more digging and got a true communicating unit that will run at a very low level continuously, instead of this one that needs to shut on and off all the time.
I have a Bosch inverter system, hate the system humidity is constantly high and I have not seen any savings on my electric bill
Something may be wrong. Have your contractor put it in charging mode and check the subcool. Then have them lower the airflow and check the capacity switch
My downstairs HVAC ductwork is mostly metal (vs flexible) so it’s kind of loud. Won’t one of these inverter systems, which runs basically nonstop, be annoying? I feel like even when it’s running at a lower fan speed that constant noise is going to be annoying. Another question: I have a two stage Trane for my upstairs, and what I didn’t like was that it always started out in first stage, which didn’t seem to produce enough heat, so I could feel colder air blowing on us until it got up to speed (all that equipment in the attic gets pretty cold after a while). It was so uncomfortable (even with the slow start up air handler speeds) that we actually ended up having our technician change the wiring on the outdoor unit so that it would always start up in second stage. Won’t these inverter systems have the same problem since the compressor isn’t running at full blast at start up? Won’t it take longer for those cold ducts to warm up?
First, I've never heard of ductwork being louder because of the material being different. It sounds to me like something is wrong. Maybe the ductwork is undersized or doesn't have cross brakes or some thing else. I go on homes all the time with metal ductwork.
As far as your other concerns, yes the inverter systems will run longer and at lower speeds. However, several brands have something called hot start which means it will not produce air until it's producing warm air. That said, if you're wanting a system that will blow your hair back constantly, obviously that's not an inverter system.
@@NewHVACGuide It can blow softly, as long as it isn't blowing icily. ;) Is there a listing of brands that carry ducted inverter systems?
@@AnthonyTripoli All the big brands do now.
@@NewHVACGuide Old tech guy here....Your one Smart dude.and love your channel. I think he may be talking about the branch takes offs the last 10' or so should be flex to deadin sound.
I bought a new Daikin 4 ton inverter split 23.5 seer AC/Heater stack with new outdoor unit 4 years ago. It came with a CTK04 Communication Thermostat. I hated that thermostat from the start. Now, in the heat of summer, the AC again no longer works. I had an AC tech from the company I bought the unit from come out. He spent 2 hours trying to find the problem, but never did. His words to me were: there is a communication error someplace.... to pay this much $ for a system that fails after 2, then 4 years is throwing away your money.
You may want to get a second opinion.
OK. You got me with 3 phase DC. As far as I know DC has no phases. There is no sine wave in a DC system.
SO I live in Central Florida, not the hottest area but humidity is pretty high and constant, even in our winters. I am all electric ( which I hate ) so watching your video I want your opinion would the inverter heat pump up flow exhaust be the best way to go when I replace. Also since the inverter heat pump will run pretty much 10-11 months/year what could you advise on the payback. Thanks Great Video's
Too many variables to answer these questions pal. I’d recommend finding a good local pro and go with what they recommend
I live in a high lightning environment. I recent years I've had two strikes that I know of within a 100 yards of my house. Lightning fries electronics. I'd rather pay more on my electric bill with a simpler system than have one that'd mean paying a large sum to replace blown electronics. Simpler can be cheaper. What are your ideas on that? Also, I've put in enough insulation that my attic is about an R-70. I like saving money that way. Lightning isn't going to take out that blown-in insulation and attic foil.
You would definitely want some protection for any kind of electronics. Phase monitors are becoming more of a thing
I would say anyone with inverter equipment esp communicating one (ie more and more complex boards inside AND outside) is crazy not to install a surge protector at shut off box. This is really simple stuff-diy for less than $100. I think it’s malpractice for a dealer to install a communicating model and not insist the owner buy a surge protector-that said, dealers will charge flat fee mark up of $150 for ten minutes work.
My electrician put a whole house surge protector on the main breaker while doing some wiring for other things. The surge protector was only $150. I know there is an emp shield one for $350 plus install that protects a house from lightning surges. If you get hit it destroys the surge device but is guaranteed to protect your stuff. They also send a new unit out for $50 but you have to install it again in the main breaker.
You need a huge lightning rod like a 30 ft 4" diameter steel bar sunk 10 ft into the ground at the farthest distance from your house as possible. next you need battery backup systems on your most sensitive electronics that can also function as power spike protectors. I live in mi and my power spikes and fluctuates a lot. I don't have local lightning strikes but with my power acting up like it does I spent $$ for over size UPS systems.
I recommend a large inverter with some large batteries in the area of your power panel. Make it like a solar system but without the solar panels & be designed to charge the battery bank and auto switch from main power to battery power. I used to run computer servers and use those types of UPS systems but now with the tech available for the solar style inverters and large batteries that is the way to go.
That system does not run my oven or that type of thing but it is wired to run most everything else including my gas water heater and gas HVAC as since those are gas the actual electronic load from them is low. I like how it works now as all the power fluctuations and short outages no simply no longer any issue. Then I bought a 12000 watt generator just in case power goes out for more then a few hrs.
You should build a Faraday cage in your backyard and sell tickets so people can come over and watch the lightning strikes up close. I been about 50 ft away from a full on 50 million volt lightning strike and I will never for get that experience. It was an amazing demonstration of the power of nature. Yes I would pay to experience that again but with the best set of sound protection ear muffs I could get. It took a day or so to be able to hear normally and I remember the bones inside my body rattling like kindling wood when the pressure wave rolled "through" me and being shook like a piece of paper in the breeze. AWESOME...
You mentioned that a VFD w a 3phase compressor is used in some products. That would eliminate the contactor and capacitors. A well designed and robust VFD with a 3phase compressor would last damn near forever.
In your dreams!!!!!
@@WesB1972 One of the problems i see with VFD and other far more basic controller boards is that they are put in type 1 enclosures. I noticed some mfrs are coating their boards (Gree). Type 1 is very hard on electronics.
There are quite a few companies that just don't have the confidence in inverter Compressors. Especially if your seeing 3-5year warranties.... There are some very smart people that do probability calculations for these companies. No a 100% conclusive piece of info to have but a good indicator of where your money should be placed... I definitely trust they're math.
What companies only offer three year warranties on compressors? Most industry pros agree that compressors in inverter systems are more reliable even if they don’t agree the extra cost is worth it for the customer for utility savings.
Inverters workk well for 80 degree outdoor if ur in an area that gets warmer that motor wil be full blast where they are inefficient. have you ever replaced an inverter board the labor is about 1000$ that is just labor so if you have a warranty expect to still pay the labor. im work in the HVAC industry my unit just has a contactor and a cap :)
i would just go top of the line and be done with it. while there two different animals we have a water furnace that heats cools our home makes hot water and heats the pool. people have heard that i want to sell and there lining up because of my upgrades with the water furnace and solar array along with the tesla batteries. before my home hit the MLS. and there digging deep in there pockets as well :). i'm a big fan of ground source heat pumps... with all of of those upgrades i brought a 700.00 a month light bill down to the power company paying me to generate power for the grid!!!
what do you think of the newer york HMH7 system that's kinda cross between a mini split and heat pump?
I personally have not laid hands on this particular system. But if I’m honest, there are other brands that have done it better and sooner
I have that model installed at my house, I don't know what you mean, it's just a inverter heat pump that runs to a coil in the air handler/furnace like every other central heat pump or A/C. It's not like a mini-split ductless or anything like that. Maybe you're talking about hybrid VRF systems?
I'd like to see a temperature chart to see how these act as temperature drops. Northern Wisconsin is the real test.
I have an inverter gas furnace up here in Canada. Works great. Some people install heat pump systems here. From what I can tell it’s not worth it. Especially when the temperature is less than -5F.
Gree ultra low has a -38 mini split
Single stage is going away this is the way of the future
Truth pal
Are there central inverter systems?
Yes! Most brands have one.
I'm at the 6 year mark and so far my Bosch inverter has required 2 evaporator coils, a blower motor, heat strip and a motherboard for the outside unit. The unit sucks
Oh my gosh! I’d feel the same way if I were you. I’ve got a Bosch in my house and only had 1 issue. On year 4
I mean no disrespect but sounds like poor install , Bosch don’t have the same margin of error as basic systems an improper install such as not doing a proper vacuum for example or proper SH an SC , air flow issues/sizing/proper load calculation ,as well as many other things will cause major issues and we have the same issues with txvs in basic models.
Just my opinion hopefully you could have gotten a lemon
@@pineappleplays2947 It was a bad install I'm sure. I had a new system put in last week for 14 grand, Daikin DZ18VC. I got the AHRI number and found they installed the wrong air handler so they came back out and replaced it tuesday. I noticed the drain trap leaking so put a bucket under it and they fixed that yesterday. I had to remove the attic stairs and now have them back in place. There was a 20x14 and 20x25 return daisy chained so they made it 2 returns. I got 12 year parts, unit replacement and labor with 2 maintenances a year at $125 each. Wish me luck. We are cool atm !! I sold the 6 yr old unit with bad evap coil on FB for $800.
More things to go wrong but working they’re great
When you said invereter I was like the lithium battery walls , would be great when the power goes out
PID controls
just installed an 18k inverter.. amazing stuff..think they're mostly the same stuff..they all look the same, on ebay.
Awesome
👌
So you have some 20 year old inverter systems to make your comparative analysis with?
A few 🙂
Willie Robertson
The only reason I don't like Inverter systems is because I don't know how to work on them.
How can I learn to work on an inverter system?
Classes I guess. They are definitely a different breed
3 phase DC :P
🙂
Either way you go they blow cold air.
One thing that irks me is the Trane XV16 (American Standard XV16)/Carrier 25HHA (Bryant Something) is an side discharge with old school tech. They're loud as heck.
Crazy! I’m surprised there was a big market for them but I guess there is!
I’m deciding between the trane 3ton xv18 or the 3 Bosh ids 2.0 bovb18 or Daikin fit 3.5-ton 17 seer, which one would be the quietest and have lower cost maintenance/repair long-term
You’re comparing 3 pretty good systems pal. I’d go with the contractor you like best
@@NewHVACGuide your input is much appreciated, I’m not able to find online if trane xv18 is using a inverter Technology perhaps you might know, also considering amana heat pump with inverter technology and there warranty is great, thanks buddy
@@carlosr.2027 Your contractor should be spelling that out better... (red flag?)
Yes the XV18 is an inverter system.
@@NewHVACGuide you are correct trane using a Inverter driven scroll compressor my contractor paring it with a tam9 air handler hard decision all great units
I’m starting to see all these white label “inverter technology “ heat pumps around… they are all 18 Seer and look identical. The only one I remember right now is “Inverter Cool” but in know there are 3-4 more. You seeing this as well? Who really making these units and are they reliable?
Rebranded Bosch made by Midea
Non-communicating
Any time you add more complex systems to any machine the maintenance cost and failure rate rises. The people who benefit from this scenario is the HVAC company's that sell and service these systems .
I think it depends on what you mean by failure rate. If you’re saying there are more bells and whistles and things that could go wrong, that may be true. But if you’re saying that things like a compressor or motor are more likely to fail, in my experience… The opposite is true. I have replaced hundreds of failed single stage compressors in my career but have only ever seen one inverter compressor fail. This is precisely why most manufacturers are giving above average warranties on inverter systems
not sure why im even watching this video... I know very little about HVAC. I guess I was hoping to pick up little tid bits here and there but I don't know what a SEER is or how it compares to a conventional HVAC system. All I know is the TAppan that came with my home, (both built in 2005) is no longer keeping my house cool. Probably needs a recharge but I remember last summer when I first looked at this house, the owners had the AC set at 69... and it was like that after I moved in back in August. I kept it there for a month or two and it didn't seem to have any issues. I did turn it down to 73 and that was fine... until today, I tried to turn it on and it just would not reach 72. It was on all afternoon. :(
Bro, call a pro
@@markw4692 lol, I did. I know when I'm out matched
If your system needs a recharge it needs a repair or replacement. AC systems are sealed and should never leak or consume refrigerant. If they are, it means the system is physically compromised.
What i like is high efficiency systems can be sized to work on low then when you have a summer of hell you can turn it up.
In green grass states where your duct system is in the attic inverter systems increase the duct loss. More reliable with all y those electronics? That is laughable. Mitsubishi inverters have a bad reliability in Florida. Last Daikin I installed was doa- bad coil. The replacement coil was bad also.
Inverter system can drive you nuts I had one that kept shutting down they had low voltage line with wire nut so I change the lines then it did it again this time tightened all wire connections then I came back a third time it turn out the power company had a loose connection on their side of the meter so the moral of the story is when installing and invert system be sure not to have low voltage wire that is patched and that all your wire buses are tight the boards on them are amazing and will protect the system also warn your customer not to turn the system on and off because that computer on the system does not if it is broken so it protects itself from any electrical even if it is the customer
Good tip pal!
The reason these guys want you buying all this fancy equipment is you'll be calling them every 90 days for maintenance and repairs and expensive parts if you think buying the newest and latest and most expensive is best you are surely mistaken by the least expensive single stage simple and it will work for 18 years And you'll never need to see an hvac repairman again
In my experience, your comment is incorrect. Have you owned an inverter system? We see more issues with single stage systems than inverters.
bro u got a tiktok filter on ? xD
I disagree with you those compressors are much less reliable then single stage wait till it becomes more popular you will see many compressors go bad. The customer saves on electricity but will pay a lot more for repairs
Inverter HVAC systems are TOO EXPENSIVE. The public should refuse to use them until the manufacturing companies LOWER THE INFLATED RETAIL PRICING. Two speed HEAT PUMP systems are more cost effective and reliable.
Your point is well-taken, but it seems like this is beginning to change. I'm currently reviewing proposals for a 5-ton new central HVAC. The price difference between a variable-speed (VS) inverter system and a 2-speed has narrowed considerably over the past 5-10 years: 2K difference today vs about a 10K difference 10-12 years ago. Current minimum SEER that can be sold is 14. If this minimum std increases, and it will - just a matter of time, it will not take much of an increase to where only a VS can meet it. So, more VS units will be installed over time, parts will become more available, costs will decrease due to more volume production, and more techs will be trained on how to service & repair them.
@@binfordtoolman5674 Think about this. With an inverter drive heat pump system, the compressor runs continuously, 24/7, ALL-YEAR-LONG. With a 2-stage heat pump system, the compressor "rests" until needed; then starts up in STAGE ONE at less than full load inrush amps thereby minimumizing the wear and tear on the compressor. The most expensive component in either system IS THE COMPRESSOR. For "LAUGHS AND GIGGLES" you should also get a quotation for replacing the compressor under warranty where YOU are still responsible for the labor. In this scenario, the labor will be so high you might as well replace the outdoor heat pump as a complete unit including the condenser coil, compressor, suction line accumulator, fan motor assembly, etc.
@@FatManDoubleZero I hear what you’re saying and it’s a roll of the dice either way. I currently have two 2-speed HVAC units from different mfr’s that are professionally serviced each year. Both compressors are still running, but had the evap coil go out on both, one w/in the warranty and the other 2 years after. So, not exactly problem-free. Evap coils are not cheap either. OTOH, I have a friend that has a 10-year-old variable-speed (VS) inverter system with a communicating t-stat and has not had one problem with it. My point is that inverter units will become more commonplace whether we like it or not. Minimum SEER that can be sold will increase. It’s only a matter of time and by how much. Same thing is happening with pool pumps. Single-speed pumps over 1 HP are getting nearly impossible to find. Many jurisdictions no longer allow them to be installed. Even 2-speed units (what I have) are becoming increasingly difficult to find. As with HVAC, VS inverter pool pumps will be the only choice one day. How soon is anyone’s guess.
@@binfordtoolman5674 Your "guess" for the future of differing product availability, labor, and pricing is as good as mine. TRANE sells lots of 2-stage compressor systems and their pricing is, in my opinion, OUTRAGEOUSLY HIGH. They will NEVER give this up this line because several of their "dealers" will NEVER have enough "highly specialized & skilled labor" to competently service a future market made up of new customers who can only buy "variable speed compressor systems; whether "retrofits" or "new installations." I have "seen" this same scenario, starting more than three decades ago in the commercial elevator industry in which AC variable speed solid drives first became available. The lower technology DC elevator motor hoist machine "drives" (that use relays and old technology programming boards) are still available TODAY because they are VERY RELIABLE installations that are easier to "train" service personnel to install, service, and repair. Concerning commercial elevator installations, AC Variable speed Drives NEVER became the dominant resource, but instead continues to CO-EXIST TODAY with older technology. In my mind, this is a "model" for what will transpire within the HVAC industry in the future. I believe that the "demand" for many different consumer options and good company profits will drive the HVAC consumer market as long as real competition exists amongst the six companies that produce 98 percent of the product; - not your "market-wide" all encompassing variable speed compressor "economies of scale scenario." The profit margins must be extraordinarily HIGH for 2-stage systems like the ones you and I own. I don't "see" companies like TRANE" shooting themselves in the foot by eliminating this option or the less expensive "single stage compressor options" either. Another consideration; many HVAC field supervisors believe that 2-stage compressor installations accomplish "BETTER INDOOR HUMIDITY CONTROL" than variable speed compressor installations.