HVAC single-stage vs two-stage vs variable compressor. Heat pumps and Air Conditioners video
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2021
- HVAC systems can be single-stage, multi-stage, or variable inverter-type compressor. I had a question last week asking if I would explain stage vs variable compressor systems, so I decided to record this video going over it.
Moral of the story is that inverter systems are more efficient than staged systems typically no matter the SEER or how many stages there are.
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I found your channel the other night and it has been very helpful for my family and I. Thank you
I just had a 4 ton Bosch 20 seer unit installed in my 1500 sq ft house. This house had nothing but window units for 35 years. The amount of moisture this system is pulling out is crazy! It feels amazing now.
How many stages
@@nagantm441 inverter
A communicating inverter yes I agree it’s the best.
I like all this talk you do. New sub here. I like learning al this.
Hi Josh! Thank you for the information! So happy to see you ! I was there when you first started ! So happy to be back in Virginia! Bought a farm in Chase City Va, near Clarksville Va. I have 2 stage so I needed some information. Thank you I have been all over "You Tube University" then I ran into your video! Awesome! I am so happy to see an honest business out here..Not saying there aren't some others out there...but just saying I know you are an honest person in life, so I know that you're business a great business man.
Great to hear from you! Merry Christmas!
Thank you..that was informative 👍
You’re welcome pal!
Looking to add a Bosch 2.0 to my home in Montréal Canada where winters are real cold? Thoughts...
Thank You Sir!!!!
You're welcome!
I have the Daikin Inverter furnace, super quiet, holds the temperature perfectly steady even without running the fan all the time. Did have to have the first thermostat replaced as it was bad. My question today is, is there no money saving by turning the furnace down 3 degrees at bedtime, my dealer said I would not save and money/energy so I quit doing it.
My Carrier unit is 18 yrs old. Over the past 4 years, I have had to replace my capacitor once a year, and my fan motor 2 times within 5 years, and my blower motor 3 years ago.
Based on all of the above, I’m now doing research to possibly buy a new complete unit. I live in Houston Texas, where it is very hot and humid through the majority of the year. My house is approximately 1900 sq. Ft.
When considering parts replacement availability and cost, what are your thoughts on the following brands: Carrier/Bryant vs Lennox or Ruud?
Would you recommend a single stage or two stage for my 1 story home?
Bravo -
Man, you got me rethinking getting an inverter system. The bigger problem I have had is really high estimates on an inverter system between 25k and up to 32K. On two, 3-ton gas systems, and I and my wife bulked at that kind of price.
You must be in an expensive area. We've put Daikin Fits in here for around 10k
@@NewHVACGuide How long do those mini split condensers last I had a guy tell me they don't last as long as the garbage can style condensers.
I bought an Ecoer-less than a Daikin and superb performance.
I’d argue inverter systems last longer.
I'm in KC area and having a 3T inverter heat pump and coil put in a rental for 3700.00
Thanks for your videos that teach us how to better choose our hvac systems. I want to ask your opinion about a house that I bought from my family that has baseboard heaters, (which I am told are quite inefficient) there is central air system which was installed later and attic ductwork was utilized for it. So, if I wanted to replace the baseboard heaters with a natural gas furnace, or a more efficient way to heat the house, what would you suggest. This is in f,f,frigid southwest Minnesota on the windy prairie. Thank you for your time and effort to teach me so much about hvac systems. John
Honestly, I'd just call at least 3 companies that are local and familiar with your climate. You will obviously be getting three quotes, but the information and opinions you will get will be invaluable.
@@NewHVACGuide thanks, I live in a community with a population of approximately 400 people. There's one hvac company in the area... but I will check surrounding towns which are approximately 12-20 miles away and see what they say. It seems that they respect territories.
Question: I love your videos you are a wonderful teacher. I would love to hire you but I live in Mississippi. Background Information: In 2011 my furnace went out and had to be replaced. The new furnace was setup to run the new freon with new ducts and coils. At that time, I could not afford to replace my outside compressor. I would like to take advantage of the new technology and install a variable/invertor compressor. My electric bill during the summer months is normally around $290 and above. Question: Can I just upgraded the old compressor outside to a variable or multi stage compressor or do I need to replace everything including furnace, coils and ducts to take advantage of this new technology that a multi stage compressor offers? Thanks in advance.
The answer is yes, it may be possible. Though sometimes it's not... I recommend finding a contractor that gives you the warm fuzzies and go with what they recommend and sell in your local market. :-)
What do you suggest I have high velocity 3inch ductwork
I currently have a new construction home being started next month. It's 2650 sq ft and unfinished basement. The standard HVAC it comes with is 3 TON, single stage furnace and single speed fan. I spoke with HVAC today and they said, if I could, to upgrade to dual zone, variable furnace, and variable speed for fan. What say you? You spoke of inverter in your video, is that something worth investing and would the inverter be in addition to the upgrades the HVAC people recommended? I live in south central PA. Thanks for your input.
Every house is different and every situation is different. I have customers who have saved significantly by installing an inverter system. But you’ll have other heating and air guys on here say the extra cost is not worth it.
@@NewHVACGuide In your best estimation, what would the cost be for just running the ductwork, not including the cost for the two stage furnace or the variable speed fan, for a dual zone system for a 2600 sq ft house. Cost meaning what would the homeowner pay?
@@kranix9166 hello again. As I said before every situation is different. Every market is different as well. I recommend getting several estimates
How is reliability affected by the different stage systems? I have a 23 year old single-stage Ruud package unit that every AC company has told me I need to replace just based on it's age, but I've only put about $2k in various repairs over the past 13 years and she works great! I get it services once per year. If I replaced it when the first person told me to 13 years ago, I would already be due for a new system. Is there anything on the market today like that? Single-stage, simple design, easy to repair, inexpensive parts, made to last?
Yes. And if you like Ruud/Rheem, find someone that installs that brand. Single stage Systems have come along way as well. You will probably get 14 to 15 seer out of a newer system where that older one you’re talking about is probably only 10 or 12 seer.
Can a 2-speed (or 2 stage) air compressor work with a single stage furnace? My guess is yes as AC only uses the blower of the furnace portion, so whether the furnace is single stage or two-stages doesn't matter to whether the AC is single stage or multiple stage, am I right? thanks for any feedback/tips
No, because your air conditioner then becomes single stage. As there is no y2 terminal on your furnace board
Can Var. Air handler will ramping with single stage heat pump?
I have a question, do two-stage air conditioners use an ordinary thermostat, or need a special type of thermostat to operate?
2 stage non communicating systems are compatible with thermostats that support 2 stage cooling. Pretty much all smart thermostats and most programmable dumb thermostats support it.
Great video very informative. I have a York 2.5 ton heat pump with furnace. I'm thinking of switching to a 3 ton Daikin fit , what's your professional opinion ? Thanks
I love the Fit. However, make sure it has an AHRI match. I think the Fit can only be paired with an upflow furnace currently because of the coil.
Thanks , I'm getting the full kit , I mean I'm getting the furnace also
Very helpful but I have a ? I just installed a 5ton 16 seers rheen but don’t know if it is a two stage although the Theck told me it was.
What's the model numbers? I'll confirm
IMO the best choice is still a properly sized 2 stage system with good duct work and accurate load calculations. Reason being, energy consumption and cooling output is not linear. That is, at 40% capacity your energy consumption is not 40% but closer to 50%. A typical 2 stage system with a 70% vs 100% staging the energy consumption comes down to around 55% vs 100%. This is actually the reason most 2 stage systems have their stages set to 2/3rd and full output as the lower the output the worse the efficiency gets and the sweet spot is around 2/3 output. For a typical inverter system on it's minimum 33-40% load will consume around 45-50% of energy compared to maximum output. The energy savings compared to a 2 stage system is marginal given the 2 stage system is designed to run in stage 1 most of the time.
Multi stage is definitely an advantage to single. But we’ve seen more improvement from inverter communicating systems than anything.
Let's be clear-none of your videos are "clear and to the point". Damn bud you're knowledgeable enough and passionate about your occupation but you're fixin to sunburn your tongue.
@@NewHVACGuide Are inverter/variable speed units noticeably more quiet than a 2 stage?
Definitely and significantly
I plan to upgrade in the next 6 months. I currently have a 20 year old Heil heat pump. I am pretty sure I have narrowed down to a Trane system.
My home is only 1500 sq feet. Would the XV18 with
New air handler (Hyperion) or tem6 be worth spending the extra money for or should I go with possibly single stage or multistage due to such a small house?
I am in SC and it's terribly humid during the summers. Thanks for all the information you provide.
If you’re sold on Trane, check out their TAM cabinet air handlers. That said, it’s hard to say whether or not you will save enough for it to make sense for you to make the extra investment. Some homes yes, some homes no
I received a quote in the amount of $11k for a 2.5 ton 14 SEER AC single stage plus indoor evaporator coil plus a 90KBTU single stage gas furnace in the DC area. I think the quote is excessive. I was thinking I can get a higher SEER with two stage for less. The HVAC equipment is from one of the big 3. Am I correct?
I'm not sure what you're asking. So sorry.
Was wondering what if you run out of fuel can you manually switch it to the heat pump in a pinch
Most thermostats, you're going to have to reprogram the thermostat to make that happen. But yes it is possible.
I was looking to replace my 30 year old Bryant air conditioner. A Trane dealer told me that they can't install their two stage AC because I have a two stage Luxaire furnace but they could install a single stage Trane instead. Doe it really matter if the furnace is not the same brand? Why can he install a Trane single stage but not two stage AC mated to my Luxaire furnace?
There may be wiring issue between the two units, the printed circuit board wires, which are many. Also the dealer does not or can’t warrantee the mix of two different brands, units, companies.
I have yet to see anyone compare a heat pump from say 15 years ago to the newer heat pump systems. I have a ducted heat pump, it was installed new back in 2006, so the system is 17 years old. I have been trying to find a comparison to those older units to the new ducted split systems. Some of them can still work at -22, mine stops at like 32.. anything lower than that it blows cold air and the back up heat strips have to run to get the house up to the set temperature. Obviously, the newer system is more efficient, but is it enough to warrant upgrading? I would think so, but I can't find any info on this to be sure. One thing I started doing is not even running the heat pump below 32 because to me it is rather stupid to run the heat pump knowing it will only make the house colder before the heat stips kick in.. so I run it on emergency heat.. that only runs the strips. of course that is not economical, but it can't be worse that allowing the heat pump to run knowing it will only blow cold air for 5-10 minutes before it does what I have already done. So, to the question... Will I benefit from upgrading to a system that can run at much colder temps.. Cooper&Hunter, Mr Cool, Senvile and a few others can still work at a those colder temps, they say.
It seems the choice is actually where the money is going to be going to. Either a more expensive product to produce a better result or a less expensive product but a higher energy bill.
That argument used to be valid. However, inverter systems are relatively the same cost as multi stage units these days.
I'm still on the fence here. I just had a home energy assessment done and the evaluator says I am undersized by at least a full ton. I was sized for an 1800 square foot home when I'm actually 2800 manufactured home (triple wide with large extended kitchen section) main living space is 1800sqft with a kitchen that is almost another 1000 square feet. Question: to cut costs because I cannot afford much more than $12,000 on a new system they are recommended I get a federal speed 5 ton air handler and just a single stage 5 ton heat pump all of the HVAC contractors near me loves American standard apparently or Rheem. Do you think that is a feasible thing just having a variable speed air handler with a single stage heat pump home is all electric by the way with downflow air ducts. All of my air ducts are in my crawl space tucked and hidden inside the belly pan. Registers are all at .3 or less static pressure as well at the return it was at 0.4 evaluator said overall 97% efficiency barely any air leaks and I should easily support a 5 ton system without replacing my ducts and with the Arkansas weather I'm of the edge of zone 1 and 2 evaluator said I probably wouldn't need 5 tons year round only in the super hot months rest of the months the air handler alert will probably only run on its lowest setting. But my thinking is the entire system needs to be variable in the summertime I could care less about efficiency as long as it cools and doesn't jack up my electric bill like my current system is running nearly $500 a month to keep it 78 degrees in my house thing runs 16 out of 24 hours straight and has a heavy amp drawer when it kicks on over 100 amps and runs at 24 amps and humidity stays above 70% or between 60 and 70% in the cooler months.
Question: I have a ductless mini split that advertises an inverter compressor. I recently upgraded to a 3 ton 15 SEER variable speed central air conditioner as well. The central air is an inverter system if it’s a variable speed ECM correct? Thanks!
They could be talking about the fan but technically ecm is variable speed
Most honest thing you said is it took you a long time to get to a point.
Inverter simply explained is they can control speed indefinitely via communication wire dc voltage
What's the percentage up front cost difference and monthly cost savings between the 3
So when setting up the thermostat with an inverter system (Bosch) would you say it's a single stage or something different when there is no setting for an inverter system
Yes
which heat pumps have inverter system?
Usually ones that are higher in SEER
Bosch makes a very good inverter heat pump.
I'm a novice. Seer rating?
Hello. Seer is typically a number attached to heating and air systems to tell you how efficient the system is. Meaning the higher the number, the lower your electric bill should be.
I just had to set up y2 on a 2 stage I’m in Texas it’s hot as balls only had y 1 hooked up I just jumped y1 to y2 no reason to have a low stage in Texas and no one cares if it’s more efficient when it’s 105 out
Agreed esp if you have whole house dehumidifier for the the trunk season and max out te get what even when you’re ac is running.
He motors on about nonsense. He finally gets to the point at 1:50. Skip the rest.
I'm replacing my 2013 Rheem 3-ton unit SEER 13 heat pump with a more efficient one. Please, in your opinion, which quotes received makes the most sense (they are all from experienced companies) since I'm not sure about the quality of the product or the fairness of the offers (all include the thermostat of my preference, two surge protectors, and UV light:
Gree 4 tons split system Flexx SEER 18: $10k with 10 yrs parts & 1 yr labor warranty or $11k with 10 yrs both parts & labor + optional $0.75 sq ft of blown-in insulation R30 for the attic $1,399.50.
Bosch 2.0 4 tons BOVA SEER 20: $10,540 with 10 yrs both parts and labor warranty.
York 3 Ton 17 Seer York LX Series Heat Pump Split System: $9,384 with 10 yrs parts & 5 yrs labor plus $300 rebate.
Bryan 3 tons 226ANA paired with FV4CNF005L00 SEER 16: $10,180 with 1 yrs labor & 10 yrs parts and compressor - includes Aprilaire 2210 whole house annual air filter.
I don’t do 2 stages customer complains to much they can buy a communicating variable speed 0-100 percent y not just jumper y1-y2
Inverter Systems run on only electricity so as electricity goes up price of energy goes up. Natural gas is cheap. Just get a variable speed natural gas system when you replace your hvac.
1:55
Thanks
Beats the 3+ from a previous video of his I watched. I wish he’d pin these comments that cut to the chase …
Then just get to it, omg
I hate the communicating type... Requires specialized cable. Why can't they just use CANBUS instead of RS-485.
Because of restrictions in size, I need to use a Side Discharge and from my research there's only a few brands that meet requirement:
- Colemann/York HMH7 (Likely a DC Inverter cuz it doesn't spec LRA and uses 24VAC Comm)
- Trane/American Standard AccuComfort 19 (I don't think this is DC Inverter as it spec LRA and RS485 Comm)
- Daikin FIT (DC Inverter but can't find specs and Comm unknown)
- Gree Flexx/MrCool/ACPro X (DC Inverter and uses 24VAC Comm)
- Midea EVOX (DC Inverter but can't find specs and uses either 24VAC or RS485 Comms)
- Carrier/Bryant (Loud, Old School Units)
Which one are you going with?
My new Goodman furnace and condensing unit do have a communication interface but requires an expensive proprietary thermostat so I connected using the legacy 24V thermostat wire and Honeywell thermostat. I believe that the Bosch inverter system does not use a proprietary communication interface.
This video has aged, not sure if anyone can answer if ever these newer 3 stage compressors like from LG is better or if ever Daikin's two-stage compressor is still superior.
Single stage systems worked and were cheap.
My feeling on all this high tech is follow the kiss rule keep it simple stupid . The more stuff you put the more to break
Check the cost for parts and labor between simple systems and advanced systems. These techs love advanced systems with control boards and ECMs. Crazy parts costs, which profit from wholesale to retail is HUGE. Replacing computer boards take seconds not hours. And, oh by the way, almost all warranties only cover parts, but not labor. Gee, wonder why the labor part of equation supports “high tech” versus cheaper parts. Clown. Don’t be fooled. He is selling and you are buying. Ask him what is he paying for in his house, even though his labor is free.
why are you charging for your "free" guide. That is a red flag to me.
Who said it was free?
Saving energy at the expense of comfort defeats the entire purpose of owning an AC. Its a shame governments have brainwashed people into believing there's a limited amount of natural resources when the truth is everything on earth is constantly recycling its self. I get making better compressors & motors that work just as good off less energy or more importantly to me LAST LONGER but its like we are just paying extra for devices that decrease energy usage at the expense of efficiency. Efficiency in terms of AC means how well it keeps you cool. The energy it use is the cost to keep you cool & your not going to be cool without that cost. Just turn the freaking temp up if you want it to run less.