Does Charizard live happily ever after? Find out in the SECRET pay2win Patreon ending!! ...It was supposed to be in the public video but I forgot to both create the ending and add it in before the upload... I'll also post any corrections I notice here... - I say that I'd explain why Lunar Dance isn't strictly better, but I never did because Trump Card got replaced by AI. Anyway, Lunar Dance makes Trump Card worse lmaooo
Another correction is that Aura Sphere was never Lucario-exclusive because the Creation Trio all learned it in Gen IV, as well as I think Mew and Mewtwo (citation needed for those two however) EDIT: did the research and yes those five can learn it, also Togekiss for some reason
Poor Togekiss really needed a coverage option for when the opponent resists air slash and T-wave. (Man I was so excited to build one of those in HGSS, and so sad when I found out about Shiny Stone availability)
Unrelated fun fact: in Brazil, on early dp anime episodes and early tcg cards, close combat was translated as "Pancadaria", wich basically is an expression that means "beating the crap out of someone" lmao
The biggest crime of Stealth Rock is that makes good types (steel and fighting) even better, while making bad types (bug and ice) even worse. As if there was any need for either...
Being a fan of bug types and liking monotype competitive made me hate stealth rock with a passion. Probably the biggest thing that made me stop playing competitive lol
The only hazards previously were Spikes and Toxic Spikes. So it makes sense that they would make a hazard that also hurts flying/levitate types. But they went a bit too far by making its base damage 12.5% and then being treated as a “rock type” attack. It’s cool in concept but broken in practice. It should have been 6.25% like one layer of Spikes.
The thing with gravity is that, just like weather and terrain, nobody wants to use the _move_ that activates them. You'd much rather just have an ability that does it for free. I'm honestly surprised that there isn't some kind of legendary or even just a space-themed Pokemon that sets up gravity with their ability.
Also *very* interesting fact I learned the other day: at some point during DP's development, Brine was actually programmed to have a radically different effect... It did x1.5 damage to Steel-types. That's right, it's the precursor to both Freeze-Dry and Salt Cure. But on top of that, it dealt the more damage the... _less_ HP the user has. Urgh, that might actually not be very good, unless you get the bonus focus of a Focus Sash.
The final part of this video makes this one of my favorites from you lol. Stealth Rock is probably the entire reason we've never seen another Type-Based entry hazard since.
Milotic was nerfed by the Physical-Special split because it gained Physical weakness. What made Milotic one of the strongest bulky waters in Gen III was because it was only weak to electric and grass. its massive Sp.Def, greatly offset that allowing it to invest in defensive bulk. Electric types could be countered hard by ground types(Dugtrio) and grass was ASS in terms of offensive moves. And even then Milotic had Ice beam. The same nerf can be said to SUICUNE. THere used to be a calm mind rest set. Invest a lot in Defense and become an almost unkillable monster. Personally I loved using Mirror Coats with them. I got to play through crappy link cables when I was kid with my group of friends.
Fun fact; Mega Pinsir used Feint in ORAS OU to out-prioritize Gale Wings Talonflame. Also has the benefit of not being a contact move so Rough Skin, Rocky Helmet, and Iron Barbs wouldn’t work on it.
If Gamefreak weren't such cowards they would have swapped Sceptile's physical and special attack stats. It's clearly supposed to be a physical attacker anyways!
When it comes to things nerfed by the Physical/Special split, it mainly comes from Shadow Ball and Hidden Power. Physical Shadow Ball was used by so many Pokemon and defined a ton of viability in Gen 3 in particular. The loss is understated by so, so many people. Normal + Ghost is basically perfect coverage, so you'd see stuff like Kangaskhan and Banette using it quite a bit in lower-tiers. Want a fan favourite garbage fire? Flareon. Flareon relied on it and wouldn't get compensation until SuperPower in (I believe) Platinum when they realised they screwed up. Even in OU, Snorlax, Metagross(?), and a few others were using it a bunch. Ubers? Deoxys-Attack loved it. Shadow Claw is just a bit too weak, it's 10 BP less for no reason and it causes Pokemon that got it in return to lose out on so many calcs. If you don't think that's much, just think of what happened to Sucker Punch. As for Hidden Power, the Hidden Power type would determine the category, so it was the only source of Flying STAB for Pokemon like Gyarados. It still hasn't recovered. I could name so, so, so many Pokemon that lost out from this. Anything that used HP Ground, Bug, etc, really. DP thoroughly failed to make up for this change and it's really sad. All they had to do was make Secret Power the physical equivalent rather than some weird gimmick. Special shoutouts to Dusknoir for coming a generation too late to experience actual physical STAB. Then it got Poltergeist over a decade later. And lost it around a year later.
Came down to comment this. I'd also argue Blissey was nerfed, because suddenly strong physical attackers of *most* types could hit it for STAB, expanding the pool of viable checks.
Another niche pick in standard play, Gastro Acid is actually the saving grace of Gen 8 Pure Hackmons. The tier is unplayable already, but it'd be even more unplayable without it. The meta for those out of the know, is Regieleki Eternamax-Eternatus OHKO Wonder Guard, No Guard, Magic Bounce, Neutralising Gas spam. Very healthy meta.
The Ominous Wind joke about Wind Waker Ganon losing because "he didn't get the omniboost" is so fucking funny to me that I come back to this video just to listen to that one part
Ganondorf is one of those unlucky few who got nerfed by the physical/special split. He was once champion of the Elemental Punch-Out League, but now... no more.
Assurance actually was pretty good in gen 8 OU. The fact that it activates if the opponent takes stealth rock damage makes it so switching into the move is very hard to do. Mons like Weavile bisharp and ttar ran it because it was basically the hardest punish to a switch
Not to mention Zacian abused the heck out of the move in nat dex, since it would nuke necrozma dusk manes that would have to switch in on rocks. Since dusk mane was one of the only answers to it, it was a devastating move to get smashed by
Certified "Well akshully🤓" moment: Mach 1 is around 1234 km/h, while the typical bullet has a velocity around 3000 km/h when it leaves the muzzle. So Machamp getting Bullet Punch instead of Mach Punch is actually really lore friendly!
One other cool thing about the move Chatter is its use in RNG manipulation. It gets really technical, but it’s essential for breeding shiny/perfect IV Pokémon without wasting hundreds of hours of your life.
I've been watching for like 2 years (don't think I've commented before) and your videos keep improving. The ending skit was hilarious. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for your support! I was nervous about implementing a pre-edited video into a LIVE, I think it worked - there were some audio hiccups, but I was able to fix them in THE PREMIUM
Unrelated but using metronome as a kid and getting a lot of these moves was mind blowing. I only had soul silver and didnt have a lot of mons/only hacked a few of the legendaries and not all of them. Getting moves like dark void or special rend was cool af
Acupressure has a genuine niche! In gen 8 monotype it got banned because a lot of poison teams were using it on Drapion. Due to its battle armor and fast taunt it is the best user of the move. The move was also standard on its move set since Drapion was primarily a knock off spamming psychic immunity so it had extra move slots. Since it was pretty luck based yet still viable, they banned it.
Bug Bite is a great move... at raising my sodium level when every bug in PMD gets it and eats all the Apples/Reviver Seeds/Gummis in my bag. Meta defining for sure in those games... but yeah no in the rest of the games, Niche is fair. The only good users of it are Scyther & Scizor, and that's only because of Technician.
@@ImportedCheese See, PMD Agility (& Silver Wind and Ominous Wind, but don't even get me started on those two) is terrifying because you then have a Monster House ready to obliterate you. Bug Bite (& by extension Pluck) is annoying because it removes the Reviver Seeds you could have used to survive the Monster House. Unless you can freeze the entire room with an orb, then it's a piece of cake lmao.
Poison Jab is a common coverage move for Fighting types to hit fairies. 30% poison chance can also chip down resistant switch ins. And I doubt Steels switch into fighting types.
Shadow Force played a roll in my 2008 VGC team. Because there were no time rules I decided to run a stall team using a defensive Giritina with Rest, Sleep Talk, Double Team, Shadow Force. The replay was 30 minutes alone xD
Oh dear. I already paid 50% of my life watching the VOD of the live. Guys, I don’t know if I can take it, those rocks are digging deep in my fiery scales… If only I had boots, this SCP-0095 wouldn’t be laughing so hard!
It's been a while since I've watched this channel! So cool to see another tier list. These videos or edits are surprisingly entertaining to watch and I already can not wait for the gen 5 moves tier list! (About the gen 5 moves: I was surprised how bad some of the gen 5 moves were in gen 5. Like Incinerate or Struggle Bug had only a laughingly 30 base power. Or Hex with only 50 I think.)
Been watching and enjoying your content for a good while now, so imagine my shock and surprise when at 23:02 I see the TF2 Heavy Chesnaught I drew when I was still in high school... holy fucking shit that caught me off-guard so much hahahahahaha!! I feel very much honored here.
@@ImportedCheese Yeah, alongside a couple other Pokemon as TF2 mercs in the same style too. Either way, keep up the good work there my man! The Bulletproof lobby stay winning! 💪
Btw in Gen 8 for a brief period of time, Kyurem-B ran Fling in Ubers with the TR-43 for Overheat to surprise Necrozma-DM with an 120 bp physical dark move lol. (So Fling should be niche jk)
If Gravity is in Niche then Worry Seed should be as well. Ferrothorn actually can use it to counter Gliscor trying to setup Swords Dance on it. The rest of its use is pure memes, but that's better than whatever Gravity is doing. Also Gengar got nerfed by the Physical Special split. It's stab got a ton better, but it lost the ridiculous coverage it got from the elemental punches. Ice Punch Gengar would have been a menace to Garchomp, and Fire Punch Gengar would stunt all over Ferrothorn. Edit: did the calcs, offensive Chomp would get oneshot, defensive is a range, and Ferrothorn gets 2 shot because it's Ferrothorn
I think Houndoom and Banette might have been hindered by the physical special split. Competitively Houndoom isn't that bad, it only lost special pursuit and crunch got replaced by dark pulse, but imagine if sucker punch was special for it. However, in a playthrough it's an absolute loss, because Doggie only gets physical dark type moves by level up, so yeah no dark pulse. Banette on the other hand lost physical shadow ball and got the lackluster shadow claw, the weak shadow sneak and the almost completely useless phantom force. Alakazam and Gengar also lost their elemental punches, but they got other great coverage like special shadow ball, focus miss and the latter sludge bomb.
My favorite Gravity cheese was my Gravity Zap Cannon Genesect in gen 6. I believe I also gave it Chill Drive Technoblast for that sweet boltbeam coverage in the most ridiculous manner
Pokémon nerfed by physical special split: Banette (lost shadow ball as a physical stab and had to settle for shadow claw until gen 8) Every special attacker that used an elemental punch move for coverage (sad alakazam noises) Sceptile (leaf blade changed to physical)
Whenever Lando Incarnate was legal in OU, Gravity was a very solid set since you could spam Earth Power and you could remove some checks that normally would stop you!
Milotic was NERFed by the phys/spec split. It’s huge Sp. Def made all Grass and Electric moves virtually harmless. Now it has to run Marvel Scale and Flame orb or it gets its shit split by Power Whip.
One year late to this, but there actually WAS a way to get priority trick room In gen 8 if a Riolu or Liepard with with prankster used it on a dynamaxed pokemon who picked trick room, because its technically a status move d-trick room became protect. But, copycat still registers the used move as trick room, which results in a +1 priority trick room at the cost of only wrecking havoc for one less turn Absolutely worth it imo but its locked to gen 8 sooooooooo
The premium ability and move tier lists videos are my favorite, I wish they would come out faster :'( but I understand they probably take a million years to edit
The only potential theory crafted use I could see for Metal Burst would be on Wobbufett. Wobbufett has high HP and low defenses so it has the ideal stat spread for countering moves. Wobbuffet is slow af anyway so the lack of negative priority is mostly a non-issue. It could be useful against a mixed attacker like Infernape or Lucario to guarantee a retaliation so long as the opponent attacks you. Other potentially good candidates would be the Chansey line, Wailord, Driftblim, Dondozo, and Alomomola for stat reasons so it’d be a decent way to do damage on a stall Pokémon. The issue is that Stadium 2 is 24 years old and the meta’s changed. “The future is now, old man.” You can’t just Wob the whole enemy team into submission (bad move btw) like you could with the Rental Wobbuffet.
I know Wobbufett doesn’t have Metal Burst, this is all just theory crafting if it did. Plus nothing is immune to Metal Burst unlike Mirror Coat or Counter so you could run all three moves to make sure you can always deal some damage to the opponent and Destiny Bond in the 4th slot. It’s better to think of it as insurance for both mixed attackers and against ghost and dark types who would be immune to one of your other options. This sounds better when you remember ghost is one of the best types and dark is a pretty good one so seeing them is common enough that the insurance policy of Metal Burst would be warranted. It would still definitely be the worst of the counter moves, but it would still be just below them in viability if Wobbuffett could use it.
I definitely agree that Assurance deserves to be in Filler, but one of the mons that used it is also one of the strongest mons in Pokemon history, Zacian-Crowned. Zacian's Steel/Fairy STABS and Close Combat coverage are walled by Necrozma-Dusk Mane, which would normally make it a good answer, but Zacian used Assurance to hit Dusk Mane on the switch after it took damage from **THE MOVE THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED**, and that was enough to put it into Close Combat range.
What about trying gravity + hypnosis in doubles? I agree with it's placement in niche but it's not just damaging moves that get boosted accuracy and you can also use it with focus miss and it actually hits!
Fun fact about Trick Room: An ability that sets up Trick Room actually exists... IN TEMTEM. It was so horrendously broken on release they had to give it a drawback, which was "Lose 50% of you Max HP upon switching in", and it STILL saw play. So yeah, this really shouldn't see the light of day in Pokémon... (For those curious, it is on Nagaise, one of the starters)
toxic spikes are pretty niche in OU and below, but they end up being really good in Ubers, since so many of the top tiers are grounded (Spikes are strong for the same reason), to the point where in Gen 4 Ubers, Qwilfish is actually pretty good on Rain teams because it can absorb the T-spikes for Kyogre and Palkia, set up its own, and then explode. They’re great in Gen 5 but they got indirectly buffed in Gen 6 (and nerfed cause defog) by the ghost buff, suicide lead cloyster sets up T-spikes and Mega Gengar now has a spammable 130 BP stab move
ngl Brine is one of my favorite moves. Good in competitive? Absolutely not. But in-game, having access to it as a finisher against a tough Pokemon is so satisfying. I think it would have a lot of potential if Pokemon games were actually hard and there was a strategic place for it.
Quick thing: Why do toxic spikes get removed when poison types swap in, but stealth rocks don't get removed when rock types swap in? Like, it's a little bit of a stretch, but it would actually introduce some counterplay to the move that isn't HDB+defog or rapid spin, and the rock type would really appreciate the buff
You should take some of the bits like the Sneaky Pebbles section and make it into its own video. Take the best bits of your long form content that don't need as much context and turn them into stand alone videos that function as samples of your work that can be picked up by the algorithm and draw in new viewers.
Pokémon nerfed by physical special split: All of Sceptile’s moves (Leaf Blade, Crunch, Dragon claw) became physical Alakazam and Gengar lost elemental punches Houndoom lost special pursuit which was a huge deal for him Bannete lost physical stab and is now forced to shadow claw but even with good stab he’d still suck
Regarding gravity in VGC, aside from being nice with earthquake its most importantly a way to get fast 100% accurate sleep from hypnosis, and sleep in VGC is very strong due to a lack of sleep clause.
I'm still so sad about dark void because they fixed the problem which was smeargle using the move by only letting Darkrai use it, but they had to cut its accuracy as well
Here's a trivia question, what move has changed which stat it goes off of twice? There actually is a move that has changed more than just once during the physical/special split. Bite was Normal type in gen 1, and thus physical, became Dark type gen 2, and thus special, and finally in gen 4 became a physical Dark type attack.
It’s a bummer that Embargo was never improved. It could have been a battlefield effect where the enemy team can’t benefit from any held items for 5 turns.
If I were to give Acupressure a buff, I'd have it boost the highest stat by 2. If the target has high ATK, Acupressure will buff it, etc. If there are more than one stat that are the same, I'd say it'll boost crit rate.
For some more pokemon nerfed by the physical special split for spesifically in-game use. You now have grimer and muk where if you want to use them in games like HGSS or BW2 where the Poison Jab TM is postgame only or in ORAS where the Poison Jab tm is rng dependent, the first physical Poison type move they learn from level up is Gunk Shot at level 43 minimum, just don't use Muk and Grimer in any of these games. You also have Crobat who to this day the best Physical Poison type move is still Cross Poison at only 70 power, Crobat used to have base 95 Sludge Bomb as Physical stab.
I've modded to have physical poison types receive Cross Poison instead of Sludge. Thematically it makes less sense for Grimer and Muk but gameplay wise it does. After all, Muk has arms to punch and jab with so it could do some kinda poison chopping move.
besides some other already mentioned pokemon, banette was kinda nerfed by the physical/special split because it lost physical shadow ball for shadow claw (same could probably said for other physical ghost types/physical mons who wanted ghost coverage)
Giga impact and all of the recharge moves are actually good in competitive 1v1 as kind of finisher moves, since in that case you don't actually have to deal with the recharge
1:46:29 the math here is a bit off- rather than adding the chances you need to multiply the chances to not crit. It's actually got about a 34% chance to do anything- and, if post crit nerf, only to lower the damage of attacks by a third! Great move!
Funniest part is that Scizor got Roost. Scizor, Roost. Because _that_ was necessary on top of everything else. Hey, not complaining - I use Scizor, so. xD
Assurance is actually the defining reason as to why Zacian C got banned in Ubers for SwSh, assurance into close combat was actually enough to kill Necrozma Dusk Mane on the switch if stealth rocks were up (which they would be 90% of the time), which meant that it had no true counters. Dusk Mane was the second best mon in the format, and the literal only answer to Zacian that was actually good on it's own right. With Assurance, Zacian went from being countered by a mon that was on 70% of teams to having it's best counters be Quagsire, Arcanine, and Porygon 2.
I'm like 2 weeks late BUT worry seed is actually, well... It's still really niche, though you would actually use it on ferrothorn for escaping magnet pull (and the poison heal shenanigans). Good video :D
I think you were WAY too hard on t spikes. If you’re forcing switches one layer of t spikes is WAY better than 2 because toxic poison doesn’t out damage normal poison until they’ve stayed in 4 turns and the thing about clearing it with a poison type is true but you basically force their hand. They HAVE to go into a poison type if they want to keep their sweeper who isn’t a poison type healthy.
@@ImportedCheese honestly super fair but if normal poison were any better/more interesting then t-spikes would probably be way too strong. There’s a reason we haven’t seen something like a live coals that burns grounded targets on switch in and why sticky web only hits you with the -1 speed instead of paralysis.
Rewatching this and realized I can’t believe no one brought up the fact that gravity is amazing in monotype battles? Jokes aside I always thought that gravity would make moves insta hit so it’s strange to hear it’s only a 1.67 boost (although that is good)
Funfact: Jirachi lost Iron Head in BDSP and this is the only good thing I have to say about these games. Gosh the metagame was so much better than DDP OU... They could have added some other moves tho, I missed my banded azelf sniping things with fire punch.
Man, boots aren't just the best item in Fire Emblem, but now they're one of the best items in Pokémon. Boots are also useful in Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour. I'm noticing a trend.
Captivate has one niche in a renegade platinum hardcore nuzlock of all things, as Captivate umbreon is the best strategy to deal with the ghost gym, you just Captivate her lead drilphblim and wait for it to baton pass into her misdreveus or gengar, then swap into a shell armor pokemon (usually torterra) and set up to sweep the gym. Making it the safest and most easily accessible option for that really hard gym. This again only is good in a hardcore challenge run of a fangame and you need to be lucky with genders and abilities(all be it for this run u most likely will have acess to this combo) and is only good because you have no better options
Does Charizard live happily ever after? Find out in the SECRET pay2win Patreon ending!!
...It was supposed to be in the public video but I forgot to both create the ending and add it in before the upload...
I'll also post any corrections I notice here...
- I say that I'd explain why Lunar Dance isn't strictly better, but I never did because Trump Card got replaced by AI. Anyway, Lunar Dance makes Trump Card worse lmaooo
Another correction is that Aura Sphere was never Lucario-exclusive because the Creation Trio all learned it in Gen IV, as well as I think Mew and Mewtwo (citation needed for those two however)
EDIT: did the research and yes those five can learn it, also Togekiss for some reason
Poor Togekiss really needed a coverage option for when the opponent resists air slash and T-wave.
(Man I was so excited to build one of those in HGSS, and so sad when I found out about Shiny Stone availability)
Unrelated fun fact: in Brazil, on early dp anime episodes and early tcg cards, close combat was translated as "Pancadaria", wich basically is an expression that means "beating the crap out of someone" lmao
Sounds about right lmaoooo
Dark void was smeargles signature move, darkrai simply was the TM
Conterfeit art has surpassed the original
@@ImportedCheese *Blue Magic*
Holy shit this is brilliant
The biggest crime of Stealth Rock is that makes good types (steel and fighting) even better, while making bad types (bug and ice) even worse. As if there was any need for either...
I know bro
Being a fan of bug types and liking monotype competitive made me hate stealth rock with a passion. Probably the biggest thing that made me stop playing competitive lol
The only hazards previously were Spikes and Toxic Spikes. So it makes sense that they would make a hazard that also hurts flying/levitate types. But they went a bit too far by making its base damage 12.5% and then being treated as a “rock type” attack. It’s cool in concept but broken in practice. It should have been 6.25% like one layer of Spikes.
Toxic spikes was introduced in the same gen as stealth rock , also 1 layer spikes does 12.5% (2 layers 16.67% and 3 layers 25%) @@Begeru
The thing with gravity is that, just like weather and terrain, nobody wants to use the _move_ that activates them. You'd much rather just have an ability that does it for free. I'm honestly surprised that there isn't some kind of legendary or even just a space-themed Pokemon that sets up gravity with their ability.
Yeah, feel like Hoopa or Cresselia shoulda have gotten a gravity ability
Palkia HA when
@@PlaguevonKarma
It would be cool if that's Origin Palkia's ability whenever it comes to Scarlet/Violet
yeah, they coulda given that to some sort of....master of space? or time? do they have any pokemon like that...?
This would be so busted. Nothing immune to Spikes or EQ anymore (few exceptions).
I really dig the sketch at the end, the effort put into the entertaining writing and acting is just fitting for such a phenomenal move!
Thank you! Don't expect this for every list, but I have a grudge against this move
Also *very* interesting fact I learned the other day:
at some point during DP's development, Brine was actually programmed to have a radically different effect...
It did x1.5 damage to Steel-types. That's right, it's the precursor to both Freeze-Dry and Salt Cure.
But on top of that, it dealt the more damage the... _less_ HP the user has.
Urgh, that might actually not be very good, unless you get the bonus focus of a Focus Sash.
Down with steel types
Honestly if Brine was like that but didn't have that Reversal affect, it would be a pretty damn good move
Alakazam losing out on elemental punchout was a pretty big nerf.
Noodle arm gaming
Alakazam is still very good.
Same with Gengar
it's funny that when people are listing a pokemon's weaknesses and it happens to be weak to bug, they just say it's weak to u-turn
just like dark weak pokemon are weak to pursuit!! (rip )
@@ImportedCheese Knock Off has left the chat
The final part of this video makes this one of my favorites from you lol. Stealth Rock is probably the entire reason we've never seen another Type-Based entry hazard since.
I had been planning this for a while
Yeah i mean technically g-max corviknight's signature move does set steel-type stealth rocks but obvi it's just 1 mon so yeaa
@@sparkypikachu7776 it's copperajah, aKSHUALLY
Milotic was nerfed by the Physical-Special split because it gained Physical weakness.
What made Milotic one of the strongest bulky waters in Gen III was because it was only weak to electric and grass. its massive Sp.Def, greatly offset that allowing it to invest in defensive bulk. Electric types could be countered hard by ground types(Dugtrio) and grass was ASS in terms of offensive moves. And even then Milotic had Ice beam.
The same nerf can be said to SUICUNE. THere used to be a calm mind rest set. Invest a lot in Defense and become an almost unkillable monster.
Personally I loved using Mirror Coats with them. I got to play through crappy link cables when I was kid with my group of friends.
Someone else also mentioned Milotic getting nerfed
That sounds more like an overall nerf due to meta shifts with new Pokémon and new moves.
Fun fact; Mega Pinsir used Feint in ORAS OU to out-prioritize Gale Wings Talonflame. Also has the benefit of not being a contact move so Rough Skin, Rocky Helmet, and Iron Barbs wouldn’t work on it.
Aerialate moment?!
Sceptile lost access to a fair number of good special moves. Energy ball is nice, but it preferred Leaf Blade. Crunch is sorely missed
And Thunder Punch to deal with Flying types. Sceptile had a decent set of options and unfortunately lost it in Gen 4 and never got it back.
Sceptile truly was from le wrong generation
Secptile also got Leaf Storm and Focus Blast, so at least its not all bad.
Oh good, focus blast, just what I always wanted 😒
If Gamefreak weren't such cowards they would have swapped Sceptile's physical and special attack stats. It's clearly supposed to be a physical attacker anyways!
"unfortunately there have been generations since gen 4" what a subtle way to call out scarlet and violet
subtle rock?!
When it comes to things nerfed by the Physical/Special split, it mainly comes from Shadow Ball and Hidden Power.
Physical Shadow Ball was used by so many Pokemon and defined a ton of viability in Gen 3 in particular. The loss is understated by so, so many people. Normal + Ghost is basically perfect coverage, so you'd see stuff like Kangaskhan and Banette using it quite a bit in lower-tiers. Want a fan favourite garbage fire? Flareon. Flareon relied on it and wouldn't get compensation until SuperPower in (I believe) Platinum when they realised they screwed up. Even in OU, Snorlax, Metagross(?), and a few others were using it a bunch. Ubers? Deoxys-Attack loved it. Shadow Claw is just a bit too weak, it's 10 BP less for no reason and it causes Pokemon that got it in return to lose out on so many calcs. If you don't think that's much, just think of what happened to Sucker Punch.
As for Hidden Power, the Hidden Power type would determine the category, so it was the only source of Flying STAB for Pokemon like Gyarados. It still hasn't recovered. I could name so, so, so many Pokemon that lost out from this. Anything that used HP Ground, Bug, etc, really. DP thoroughly failed to make up for this change and it's really sad. All they had to do was make Secret Power the physical equivalent rather than some weird gimmick.
Special shoutouts to Dusknoir for coming a generation too late to experience actual physical STAB. Then it got Poltergeist over a decade later. And lost it around a year later.
Came down to comment this. I'd also argue Blissey was nerfed, because suddenly strong physical attackers of *most* types could hit it for STAB, expanding the pool of viable checks.
r.i.p ghosts
Except Shadow Ball becoming special was a big buff to the entire Ghost type.
Another niche pick in standard play, Gastro Acid is actually the saving grace of Gen 8 Pure Hackmons. The tier is unplayable already, but it'd be even more unplayable without it. The meta for those out of the know, is Regieleki Eternamax-Eternatus OHKO Wonder Guard, No Guard, Magic Bounce, Neutralising Gas spam. Very healthy meta.
acidic meta
it's crazy seeing how your editing has progressed with each video
Thank you! Each video I gather more assets
@@ImportedCheese collect em all ‼️‼️‼️‼️
The Ominous Wind joke about Wind Waker Ganon losing because "he didn't get the omniboost" is so fucking funny to me that I come back to this video just to listen to that one part
Shoulda had the triforce of skill!!
Unfortunate doesn't even begin to describe
Ganondorf is one of those unlucky few who got nerfed by the physical/special split. He was once champion of the Elemental Punch-Out League, but now... no more.
I know this is a joke but I think his neutral B was always unusable lol
At least it's fun!
Assurance actually was pretty good in gen 8 OU. The fact that it activates if the opponent takes stealth rock damage makes it so switching into the move is very hard to do. Mons like Weavile bisharp and ttar ran it because it was basically the hardest punish to a switch
A S S U R E D
Not to mention Zacian abused the heck out of the move in nat dex, since it would nuke necrozma dusk manes that would have to switch in on rocks. Since dusk mane was one of the only answers to it, it was a devastating move to get smashed by
Certified "Well akshully🤓" moment: Mach 1 is around 1234 km/h, while the typical bullet has a velocity around 3000 km/h when it leaves the muzzle.
So Machamp getting Bullet Punch instead of Mach Punch is actually really lore friendly!
DESTROYED, time to remake the video
why can’t machamp punch slower then?
One other cool thing about the move Chatter is its use in RNG manipulation. It gets really technical, but it’s essential for breeding shiny/perfect IV Pokémon without wasting hundreds of hours of your life.
Let's! Chatting!
I've been watching for like 2 years (don't think I've commented before) and your videos keep improving. The ending skit was hilarious. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for your support! I was nervous about implementing a pre-edited video into a LIVE, I think it worked - there were some audio hiccups, but I was able to fix them in THE PREMIUM
Unrelated but using metronome as a kid and getting a lot of these moves was mind blowing. I only had soul silver and didnt have a lot of mons/only hacked a few of the legendaries and not all of them. Getting moves like dark void or special rend was cool af
Is metronome in gen 9?
Metronome in game is pretty fun not gonna lie, i did that with togetic in gen 2 because it was my gimick mon.
Acupressure has a genuine niche! In gen 8 monotype it got banned because a lot of poison teams were using it on Drapion. Due to its battle armor and fast taunt it is the best user of the move. The move was also standard on its move set since Drapion was primarily a knock off spamming psychic immunity so it had extra move slots. Since it was pretty luck based yet still viable, they banned it.
At least we get to use Drapion in tomorrow's Karen challenge...
Stealth rocks make us all feel The Pain
Hey man you only lose 25%
Bug Bite is a great move... at raising my sodium level when every bug in PMD gets it and eats all the Apples/Reviver Seeds/Gummis in my bag. Meta defining for sure in those games... but yeah no in the rest of the games, Niche is fair. The only good users of it are Scyther & Scizor, and that's only because of Technician.
What about PMD agility
@@ImportedCheese See, PMD Agility (& Silver Wind and Ominous Wind, but don't even get me started on those two) is terrifying because you then have a Monster House ready to obliterate you. Bug Bite (& by extension Pluck) is annoying because it removes the Reviver Seeds you could have used to survive the Monster House. Unless you can freeze the entire room with an orb, then it's a piece of cake lmao.
How Stealth Rock has never been banned is beyond me. It exists in spite of the many principles used to ban moves.
Yeah, ban rocks!!
Poison Jab is a common coverage move for Fighting types to hit fairies. 30% poison chance can also chip down resistant switch ins. And I doubt Steels switch into fighting types.
If only steel wasn't immune...
Shadow Force played a roll in my 2008 VGC team. Because there were no time rules I decided to run a stall team using a defensive Giritina with Rest, Sleep Talk, Double Team, Shadow Force. The replay was 30 minutes alone xD
Disgusting
@@ImportedCheese Imagine bringing pressure stall to VGC, couldn't be me..
Oh dear. I already paid 50% of my life watching the VOD of the live. Guys, I don’t know if I can take it, those rocks are digging deep in my fiery scales… If only I had boots, this SCP-0095 wouldn’t be laughing so hard!
If you have odd HP you'll be ok!
It's been a while since I've watched this channel! So cool to see another tier list. These videos or edits are surprisingly entertaining to watch and I already can not wait for the gen 5 moves tier list!
(About the gen 5 moves: I was surprised how bad some of the gen 5 moves were in gen 5. Like Incinerate or Struggle Bug had only a laughingly 30 base power. Or Hex with only 50 I think.)
Gen 5 someday
Been watching and enjoying your content for a good while now, so imagine my shock and surprise when at 23:02 I see the TF2 Heavy Chesnaught I drew when I was still in high school... holy fucking shit that caught me off-guard so much hahahahahaha!!
I feel very much honored here.
Wait, really?! Someone on my Discord shared it with me. Thank you for drawing it! If nothing else, I learned that HE IS BULLETPROOF AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
@@ImportedCheese Yeah, alongside a couple other Pokemon as TF2 mercs in the same style too. Either way, keep up the good work there my man! The Bulletproof lobby stay winning! 💪
Btw in Gen 8 for a brief period of time, Kyurem-B ran Fling in Ubers with the TR-43 for Overheat to surprise Necrozma-DM with an 120 bp physical dark move lol. (So Fling should be niche jk)
Did we put it in niche? Maybe not
If Gravity is in Niche then Worry Seed should be as well. Ferrothorn actually can use it to counter Gliscor trying to setup Swords Dance on it.
The rest of its use is pure memes, but that's better than whatever Gravity is doing.
Also Gengar got nerfed by the Physical Special split. It's stab got a ton better, but it lost the ridiculous coverage it got from the elemental punches. Ice Punch Gengar would have been a menace to Garchomp, and Fire Punch Gengar would stunt all over Ferrothorn.
Edit: did the calcs, offensive Chomp would get oneshot, defensive is a range, and Ferrothorn gets 2 shot because it's Ferrothorn
but Rhyperior and gravity!!!!
I think Houndoom and Banette might have been hindered by the physical special split. Competitively Houndoom isn't that bad, it only lost special pursuit and crunch got replaced by dark pulse, but imagine if sucker punch was special for it. However, in a playthrough it's an absolute loss, because Doggie only gets physical dark type moves by level up, so yeah no dark pulse. Banette on the other hand lost physical shadow ball and got the lackluster shadow claw, the weak shadow sneak and the almost completely useless phantom force. Alakazam and Gengar also lost their elemental punches, but they got other great coverage like special shadow ball, focus miss and the latter sludge bomb.
I think Houndoom survived? Especially when gaining nasty plot, but yeah, r.i.p banette
My favorite Gravity cheese was my Gravity Zap Cannon Genesect in gen 6. I believe I also gave it Chill Drive Technoblast for that sweet boltbeam coverage in the most ridiculous manner
I'm sure no one expected it
Ah, watched the livestream and now will be granted with the edit. My content nutrition gauge has been satisfied
Nearly 3 hours long!
@@ImportedCheese Perfect as background footage while watching my daily dose of Vaporeon porn
@@bananaspice1967
Pokémon nerfed by physical special split:
Banette (lost shadow ball as a physical stab and had to settle for shadow claw until gen 8)
Every special attacker that used an elemental punch move for coverage (sad alakazam noises)
Sceptile (leaf blade changed to physical)
Banette is a sad one
Alakazam got Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Energy Ball, I don’t think it was nerfed at all.
Whenever Lando Incarnate was legal in OU, Gravity was a very solid set since you could spam Earth Power and you could remove some checks that normally would stop you!
Don't speak of Lando-I here
@@ImportedCheese Okayyy, so LandoT also used it in Ground Spam in BW OU
Milotic was NERFed by the phys/spec split. It’s huge Sp. Def made all Grass and Electric moves virtually harmless. Now it has to run Marvel Scale and Flame orb or it gets its shit split by Power Whip.
Clearly this is also ferrothorn's fault
Very wally mons in general I feel got nerfed
One year late to this, but there actually WAS a way to get priority trick room
In gen 8 if a Riolu or Liepard with with prankster used it on a dynamaxed pokemon who picked trick room, because its technically a status move d-trick room became protect. But, copycat still registers the used move as trick room, which results in a +1 priority trick room at the cost of only wrecking havoc for one less turn
Absolutely worth it imo but its locked to gen 8 sooooooooo
The premium ability and move tier lists videos are my favorite, I wish they would come out faster :'( but I understand they probably take a million years to edit
Unfortunately it takes a very long to assemble, the longer lists probably have nearly A THOUSAND cuts (bad move btw)
@@ImportedCheese I hope you can get an HM slave some day! (An editor)
This was cool, I loved the stealth rock bit at the end. The SCPokemon skits or any kind of documentation/lost footage kind of stuff are just great
I know a lot about stealth rock
The ending of this Video will be WILD, just you wait guys.
I already know how it ends!!
The only potential theory crafted use I could see for Metal Burst would be on Wobbufett. Wobbufett has high HP and low defenses so it has the ideal stat spread for countering moves. Wobbuffet is slow af anyway so the lack of negative priority is mostly a non-issue. It could be useful against a mixed attacker like Infernape or Lucario to guarantee a retaliation so long as the opponent attacks you. Other potentially good candidates would be the Chansey line, Wailord, Driftblim, Dondozo, and Alomomola for stat reasons so it’d be a decent way to do damage on a stall Pokémon. The issue is that Stadium 2 is 24 years old and the meta’s changed. “The future is now, old man.” You can’t just Wob the whole enemy team into submission (bad move btw) like you could with the Rental Wobbuffet.
Well it doesn't have metal burst, the 2x counters are probably better anyway
I know Wobbufett doesn’t have Metal Burst, this is all just theory crafting if it did. Plus nothing is immune to Metal Burst unlike Mirror Coat or Counter so you could run all three moves to make sure you can always deal some damage to the opponent and Destiny Bond in the 4th slot. It’s better to think of it as insurance for both mixed attackers and against ghost and dark types who would be immune to one of your other options. This sounds better when you remember ghost is one of the best types and dark is a pretty good one so seeing them is common enough that the insurance policy of Metal Burst would be warranted. It would still definitely be the worst of the counter moves, but it would still be just below them in viability if Wobbuffett could use it.
I definitely agree that Assurance deserves to be in Filler, but one of the mons that used it is also one of the strongest mons in Pokemon history, Zacian-Crowned. Zacian's Steel/Fairy STABS and Close Combat coverage are walled by Necrozma-Dusk Mane, which would normally make it a good answer, but Zacian used Assurance to hit Dusk Mane on the switch after it took damage from **THE MOVE THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED**, and that was enough to put it into Close Combat range.
A S S U R E D
I used Gastro Acid once, to remove Sniper from Clair's Kingdra in a Nuzlocke.
That was it.
Threw off their aim
@@ImportedCheese I still lost the Arbok that did it, but... it was Arbok. I was about to catch Lugia.
What about trying gravity + hypnosis in doubles? I agree with it's placement in niche but it's not just damaging moves that get boosted accuracy and you can also use it with focus miss and it actually hits!
Seems like a gimmick
Fun fact about Trick Room: An ability that sets up Trick Room actually exists... IN TEMTEM. It was so horrendously broken on release they had to give it a drawback, which was "Lose 50% of you Max HP upon switching in", and it STILL saw play. So yeah, this really shouldn't see the light of day in Pokémon... (For those curious, it is on Nagaise, one of the starters)
TEMTEM? Sounds like a pokemon RIPOFF that NINTENDO should take LEGAL ACTION against!!!!!!
toxic spikes are pretty niche in OU and below, but they end up being really good in Ubers, since so many of the top tiers are grounded (Spikes are strong for the same reason), to the point where in Gen 4 Ubers, Qwilfish is actually pretty good on Rain teams because it can absorb the T-spikes for Kyogre and Palkia, set up its own, and then explode.
They’re great in Gen 5 but they got indirectly buffed in Gen 6 (and nerfed cause defog) by the ghost buff, suicide lead cloyster sets up T-spikes and Mega Gengar now has a spammable 130 BP stab move
Quilfish good?! Or...convenient?!
@@ImportedCheese remember as was said, early gens it's usually worth to sacrifice a slot to get your hazards up while taking away theirs :^)
ngl Brine is one of my favorite moves. Good in competitive? Absolutely not. But in-game, having access to it as a finisher against a tough Pokemon is so satisfying. I think it would have a lot of potential if Pokemon games were actually hard and there was a strategic place for it.
Maybe if it did double damage against any pokemon not at full health
Ah yes... Gen 4... When Charizard went from a meh Pokèmon to complete garbage that only noobs use.
Stealth Rock was the worst thing ever.
Bring back megas
Zacian-C actually used Assurance to hit NDM in AG/NDAG for actually decent damage w/o having to SD
Assurance is almost never run on SD sets tho
...Assured
4:01-I think the only reason Ghost was physical is because it's meant to exploit how Psychics usually have more special defense than physical defense
It's probably because of Lick
Quick thing: Why do toxic spikes get removed when poison types swap in, but stealth rocks don't get removed when rock types swap in? Like, it's a little bit of a stretch, but it would actually introduce some counterplay to the move that isn't HDB+defog or rapid spin, and the rock type would really appreciate the buff
Because it's imbalanced
Cheese should post the templates so we can make them with our opinions on the moves
@@TheWonkster grass is a really bad offensive type
And this is a play through tier list
you should be able to search it on tiermaker
@@ImportedCheese 👍
You should take some of the bits like the Sneaky Pebbles section and make it into its own video.
Take the best bits of your long form content that don't need as much context and turn them into stand alone videos that function as samples of your work that can be picked up by the algorithm and draw in new viewers.
FREE content?!
Alakazam getting beat out of the ring after losing the elemental punches was pretty brutal
Gengar, too
Sad day for Alakazam lovers everywhere
@@karzadicdarken1068 Both got sick megas tho in gen 6 as a consolation prize
R.I.P to mega evolution tho, it was one of the best gimmicks
@@karzadicdarken1068 😕
Hilarious ending and awesome editing, loved watching this while shiny hunting!
(Unfortunately got through the whole thing no shiny 😢)
How do you pronounce Astrologian
@@ImportedCheese (ass-tro-lo-gen)
That skit at the end. I laughed...then I cried. 😢 (amazing job cheese) 👏
I only cried
Pokémon nerfed by physical special split:
All of Sceptile’s moves (Leaf Blade, Crunch, Dragon claw) became physical
Alakazam and Gengar lost elemental punches
Houndoom lost special pursuit which was a huge deal for him
Bannete lost physical stab and is now forced to shadow claw but even with good stab he’d still suck
Pokémon that used hidden power for physical types like Gyrados, Dugtrio, Aerodactyl etc also were pretty sad
r.i.p pursuit
Other Pokemon would absolutely use the plates to get a 100/100 coverage move that they get to pick the type of.
Z crystal moment
Regarding gravity in VGC, aside from being nice with earthquake its most importantly a way to get fast 100% accurate sleep from hypnosis, and sleep in VGC is very strong due to a lack of sleep clause.
V*C tho
Behold! The only time AHHHNIX will get the Gigachad edit! Let us pray Charizard can get enough money to buy a pair of boots.
He might in the SECRET Patreon ending!
I'm still so sad about dark void because they fixed the problem which was smeargle using the move by only letting Darkrai use it, but they had to cut its accuracy as well
80% accuracy in 1v1 pls
I wasn't able to finish the full stream before the premium edit got up. But that's no problem, the premium ought to be even better
Thanks for watching!
Dodrio is a prime example of being nerfed by the Phys/Spec split, it can't even use it's signature move Tri Attack anymore.
Tri attack is kinda bad though
Why Tri Attack though when it can Brave Bird or Return
Here's a trivia question, what move has changed which stat it goes off of twice?
There actually is a move that has changed more than just once during the physical/special split.
Bite was Normal type in gen 1, and thus physical, became Dark type gen 2, and thus special, and finally in gen 4 became a physical Dark type attack.
Let's! Biting!
It’s a bummer that Embargo was never improved. It could have been a battlefield effect where the enemy team can’t benefit from any held items for 5 turns.
Is that what wonder room does? I think? but it also affects you
If I were to give Acupressure a buff, I'd have it boost the highest stat by 2. If the target has high ATK, Acupressure will buff it, etc. If there are more than one stat that are the same, I'd say it'll boost crit rate.
For some more pokemon nerfed by the physical special split for spesifically in-game use. You now have grimer and muk where if you want to use them in games like HGSS or BW2 where the Poison Jab TM is postgame only or in ORAS where the Poison Jab tm is rng dependent, the first physical Poison type move they learn from level up is Gunk Shot at level 43 minimum, just don't use Muk and Grimer in any of these games. You also have Crobat who to this day the best Physical Poison type move is still Cross Poison at only 70 power, Crobat used to have base 95 Sludge Bomb as Physical stab.
Sludge life
I've modded to have physical poison types receive Cross Poison instead of Sludge. Thematically it makes less sense for Grimer and Muk but gameplay wise it does. After all, Muk has arms to punch and jab with so it could do some kinda poison chopping move.
Just realized it’s called the best because it’s “save the best for last”
THE BEST
Thoroughly enjoyed this extensive video
Staraptor is such a good birdie
Swampert uses stealth rock
I felt the emotion and passion emanating through the screen in that ending scene 😢
It cost me 50% of my lifeforce to bring this cinematic experience to you
besides some other already mentioned pokemon, banette was kinda nerfed by the physical/special split because it lost physical shadow ball for shadow claw (same could probably said for other physical ghost types/physical mons who wanted ghost coverage)
bring back poltergeist
Now we wait a couple gens for Charizard's redemption
redemption is available now in the pay2win patreon secret ending!!!
Giga impact and all of the recharge moves are actually good in competitive 1v1 as kind of finisher moves, since in that case you don't actually have to deal with the recharge
I'll never concede ANYTHING in favor of giga impact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except the Z move thing
I killed Cynthia's Garchomp with a Luxray via Giga Impact once.
Unfortunately, Luxray was my last 'mon standing and she still had Milotic in the back.
I once got swept in a randomizer because the npc's jumpluff used acupressure on its partner and got like the perfect buffs
r*ndomizer
dang you forgot Empoleon in your new Eeveelutions list ;_;
Fraud youtuber
The only thing holding stealth rock back is gen 8-9 introducing heavy duty boots and in 4v4 vgc doubles where hazards arent viable
That pokemon would gladly equip Boots as their item is a testament to the strength of the rocks!!
sceptile got HARD nerfed by physical special split, basically no special moves lmao
It gets uh...dragon...pulse?
@@ImportedCheese And Focus Miss
@@ImportedCheese that’s cool, it can have dual stab then for if you mega it
right?
4:34 Gengar and Alakazam got nerfed with the elemental punches becoming physical
rip elemental punchout circuit
Not really. Gengar still remained an OU threat (and gained STAB special Shadow Ball) and Alakazam is usually OU as well.
@@BegeruJust because they are still viable doesn't mean they were not nerfed
1:46:29 the math here is a bit off- rather than adding the chances you need to multiply the chances to not crit. It's actually got about a 34% chance to do anything- and, if post crit nerf, only to lower the damage of attacks by a third! Great move!
Even better!!
Funniest part is that Scizor got Roost. Scizor, Roost. Because _that_ was necessary on top of everything else.
Hey, not complaining - I use Scizor, so. xD
but eviolite scyther!!
Assurance is actually the defining reason as to why Zacian C got banned in Ubers for SwSh, assurance into close combat was actually enough to kill Necrozma Dusk Mane on the switch if stealth rocks were up (which they would be 90% of the time), which meant that it had no true counters. Dusk Mane was the second best mon in the format, and the literal only answer to Zacian that was actually good on it's own right. With Assurance, Zacian went from being countered by a mon that was on 70% of teams to having it's best counters be Quagsire, Arcanine, and Porygon 2.
I'm like 2 weeks late BUT worry seed is actually, well... It's still really niche, though you would actually use it on ferrothorn for escaping magnet pull (and the poison heal shenanigans). Good video :D
W O R R I E D
milotic uses aqua ring instead of lefties since it wants marvel scale and flame orb. this helps it stall more.
recover is right there tho
I think you were WAY too hard on t spikes. If you’re forcing switches one layer of t spikes is WAY better than 2 because toxic poison doesn’t out damage normal poison until they’ve stayed in 4 turns and the thing about clearing it with a poison type is true but you basically force their hand. They HAVE to go into a poison type if they want to keep their sweeper who isn’t a poison type healthy.
I just wish normal poison wasn't so lame
@@ImportedCheese honestly super fair but if normal poison were any better/more interesting then t-spikes would probably be way too strong. There’s a reason we haven’t seen something like a live coals that burns grounded targets on switch in and why sticky web only hits you with the -1 speed instead of paralysis.
Despite what Bulbapedia says, you can teach Silvally Draco Meteor without it holding the Dragon Memory (tested in Moon).
is this the power of false arceus?!
Rewatching this and realized I can’t believe no one brought up the fact that gravity is amazing in monotype battles? Jokes aside I always thought that gravity would make moves insta hit so it’s strange to hear it’s only a 1.67 boost (although that is good)
MONOTYPE META shakeup incoming?!
Funfact: Jirachi lost Iron Head in BDSP and this is the only good thing I have to say about these games.
Gosh the metagame was so much better than DDP OU... They could have added some other moves tho, I missed my banded azelf sniping things with fire punch.
don't worry, dudunsparce can still serene grace paraflinch!!!
@@ImportedCheese don't think that will work in bdsp
Had to comment for the Regigigas drawing XD Premium content as always, Cheese
It's from the creator Magcargojoe, I think!
I fell asleep and this video played when I woke up. Now I reminded the video and watched it all through🤣
Yessss thank you for the watch time
Man, boots aren't just the best item in Fire Emblem, but now they're one of the best items in Pokémon. Boots are also useful in Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour. I'm noticing a trend.
I wonder if one could acquire such powerful artificats in the real world?!
@@ImportedCheese in think it's best humanity wasn't subjected to that kind of power.
I'd argue Stone Edge is meta defining, because often the winners and losers in the meta come down to if you got stone missed 🗿
90% accuracy pls
🪨🪨🪨
Tremendous commitment to the bit.
During the Captivate segment i actually did remember what it did solely cuz i got annoyed i got the TM for it instead of Acrobatics in XY.
Captivate has one niche in a renegade platinum hardcore nuzlock of all things, as Captivate umbreon is the best strategy to deal with the ghost gym, you just Captivate her lead drilphblim and wait for it to baton pass into her misdreveus or gengar, then swap into a shell armor pokemon (usually torterra) and set up to sweep the gym. Making it the safest and most easily accessible option for that really hard gym. This again only is good in a hardcore challenge run of a fangame and you need to be lucky with genders and abilities(all be it for this run u most likely will have acess to this combo) and is only good because you have no better options
n*zlockes though
Gravity is banned in Doubles OU because it buffs fast Hypnosis and I think Sleep Powder, but the start is a bit too slow for VGC
d*ubles