Sercret Power is an amazing move in ORAS. It lets you enter secret bases, scan QR codes, and summon Blissey bases. These things have trainers with 3 level 100 Blisseys that fight you in a triple battle once a day. With a set of Healing Wish and Toxic Orb, they go down quick, making them arguably the best grinding spot in all of Pokémon.
@@easyaspi31415 It is arguable better than strength even if you get them both. It has a 30% chance to cause a secondary effect, which will usually be paralysis. That is often better than the higher basepower.
Fun Fact: The abusing of Roar/Whirlwind by other moves is also used with Sleep Talk. Most notably, in Gen 3, there was a set for Aerodactyl with just Sleep Talk and Whirlwind/Roar. It would switch into a move that put them to sleep then just spam Sleep Talk, and nothing (good) in OU outsped it so unless you had priority you were taking a lot of Spikes and Sandstorm damage
I think Filler makes more sense _under_ Niche; Filler is stuff you only use because you got nothing else, whereas Niche is stuff that - while rarely so - you might actually _CHOOSE_ to use.
Doom Desire actually did get used at one point. Due to gen 3 mechanics, Doom Desire doesn’t calculate damage when it attacks, but instead on the turn it’s used. Meaning the damage is calculated based on the defense of the Pokémon that was in on the turn it was used. Sometimes, Choice Band Jirachi was used to lure in Blissey so that in the turn doom desire attacks, it deals a 140 bp unresisted damage on 5 defense. Paired with strong attackers like Salamence you were certainly getting a kill
Foresight rapid spin unironically got used competitively for a small time when some people were really annoyed at hazards… and hazard stacking teams showed how worthless it was by just running 2 ghost types so they can switch after a foresight/odor sleuth. So yeah odor sleuth and foresight are just bad, waste of a turn.
Regarding Signal Beam, I agree with you. I’ll also add that Signal Beam unusually pairs well with Psychic types. It’s like Focus Blast where it hits 2/3 types that resist Psychic super effectively.
The animation of Smelling Salt indicates that the opposing Pokemon is being slapped from both sides, which causes it to snap out of paralysis. It sort of makes sense that the Makuhita line gets this, as their hands are perfect for performing that action. But I have no idea how they came up with the name.
Ignoring the odd animation, the name indeed makes sense with how the move works. Smelling Salts are often used within sports to revive a knocked out player. The strong smell of ammonia when brought close to a fainted person will often shock them back to consciousness. Granted, this would probably work better for a sleeping pokemon (ignoring wake-up slap) or as a reviving item, but the idea still carries over in a way.
@@HonkeyTrash In relation to the name, it's called "きつけ" in Japanese, which can mean resuscitation, but it can imply the medicine or chemicals used for this e.g. "きつけを探せ" (Go find the smelling salts!) so they got the wrong context when translating it. It seems to be a kind of archaic term, just like I'm sure most English speaking kids went "wtf is smelly salt"
The entirety of the Knock Off section is epic. I'm always impressed with how you phrase things and this is one of your best deliveries. The rest of the video is great too but here, have some fanfic praise of pointing at my favourite section.
@@ImportedCheese Also, I never got to use Knock Off. I only ever played X and Y "competitively" and the move tutor for Knock Off was in ORAS. My Bisharp was stuck with Night Slash or Sucker Punch and it better was happy about it
42:48 Fake Tears sometimes sees play in VGC on Prankster pokemon such as Grimmsnarl to give them something to do to contribute to their partner's damage, since the drop equates to halfing the opponent's special defense. It's a bit risky, since it necessarily means you're doubling into one of your opponent's pokemon and they could just Protect, but it does see some play.
Fake Tears is good in doubles bc it can serve as a better Helping Hand, especially against dynamax pokemon where one-shotting is so powerful. Have your prankster Grimmsnarl or Whimsicott half the Sp Def of a target than one-shot it with the your own special max move.
@@ImportedCheese The problem is that while it's good, Grimm and Whim are so massively spoiled for choice on great support moves to use with Prankster that Fake Tears is usually outclassed by superior choices.
Charizard actually uses blast burn in gen 3 on a sub petaya set that aims to have a lot of fire power (literally). It has Charizard set up the sun before subing down to its petaya and activating blaze. This allows it to even crush resists and blast burn is basically used as an explosion.
Now I want to see an imported cheese niche/bad move challenge. Win online battles using only niche/bad moves with exceptions for moves needed to make niche moves work. Moves also can't be currently banned.
As of gen 8, taunt is now useful in-game because of max raid battles. You can use it on pokemon like Martin's Solrock so it stops using cosmic power and actually attacks the dynamaxed mon. Very useful for players that don't have friends. Sadly it only lasts a few turns though.
Great Premium edit as always. Big fan of 28:45 in particular. The Live for this one was a lot of fun, so I'm glad to see it translate into a quality Premium. Looking forward to the next Tier list.
Nature power is pretty darn solid in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games, because the moves are, like you said, REALLY solid! A lot of them (notably the extremely common energy ball) are 4-range projectiles, which are very good. The few 1-range moves it can take are all very powerful, and its best move by far is earth power, which is a screen nuke. Its best trait by far is its 20 PP, which is almost certainly higher than whatever move it copies (keep in mind that this is in the PMD series, where PP actually matters). It does have a few downsides, most notably that since Pokemon often match their environments, some Pokemon in the dungeon will resist it, but for Pokemon like Cyndaquill who are really hurting for coverage will be grateful for it.
I dont think that Hoenn has too much water, as long as you use dive. Most of the water routes are optional and/or have cool secrets tucked away, and/or has an interesting design element. Diving, rapids, the abandoned shipwreck, the ice cave, etc. The one thing I would change is, I would make dive more mandatory for navigating the late-game water routes. Rocks blocking the path forward that can only be navigated by diving. That would encourage people to actually dive more, which would help with the perception. If you treat the dive routes like they're a surf route, you're gonna think there is too much water.
I think the shipwreck is one of my favorite areas. The issue with the water is that you encounter the same boring water pokemon for like...1/3rd of the game. Zero variety!
Dive could made the water section of the game more interesting, like discovering secrets of the land all over, but the routes that are only water tiles are boring design wise, they could have put some interesting landmarks and such to make navigation and exploration more interesting.
Nature power on normalium z whimsicott actually won the VGC 2017 world championships. The team had tapu koko and tapu fini, so he could switch in fini to get a strong stab fairy move on the switch or koko for a strong terrain boosted electric move.
1:15:08 Water Sport is better than Mud Sport, because Budew learns Water Sport and actually dampens one of its weaknesses ,,, is what I would say if Mud Sport couldn't be bred onto like, a bunch of water types
The reason for the "Too Much Water" meme isn't because of the amount of water, but because IGN basically listed the water as one of the cons of the remakes before rating them 7.5/10. If memory serves me right, that was the only listed con in their review, hence people making fun
@@ImportedCheese the problem was that it was on the *remake*. You know, what were you expecting for a remake of R/S/E? That they paved over the water?
Way too many water routes and water being lopsidedly favored mechanically over fire and grass (true of all Pokemon gens, but at it's most prominent in Hoenn)
Okay, I've never really followed competitive, so hearing about those Assist cheese starts is honestly the funniest thing I've heard so far today. I kinda wanna use em in a Nuzlocke lmao. You go, you funky little cats!
I feel like eruption is meta defining since it's also available on Torkoal, who ever since that thing got drought, keeps seeing usage on VGC trick room teams to deal really high spread damage. And also all the special attacking Primal Groudons in gen VI doubles that kept showing up because it's a 150 BP stab move and Groudon getting a really good type combo and not being frail to the Xerneas in the room.
Hey imported cheese The vid is great as always! Might need to evolve into a patreon Out of curiosity, will we get a HGSS in game tier list or is it too similar to the GS ingame tier list?
Funny thing about Multihit moves: now that loaded dice exists their odds go from 35% for 2 or 3 each and 15% for 4 or 5 each to a even 50-50 between 4 and 5 times. Meaning a pokemon with both technician and loaded dice will either do 150 or 188 base power with the moves with no downside of any kind. Worst case scenario, they do the same base damage as a Hyper Beam Clone with no downside. Best case scenario it does nearly Self-Destruct damage without destroying your own pokemon.
@@ImportedCheese I actually ran the numbers: so if you account for the 30% life orb boost. On average you’re doing 4.03 times base damage when you account for the different rates. This is not only statistically worse than Loaded Dice which is 4.5 times base damage on average; but on top of that-Life Orb hurts you by 1/10hp/use of an attacking move. So you do less damage OVERALL and take more damage too; but the boost of life orb isn’t just 1 move and you do have a slim, but not negligible, chance to do more damage in a single turn with life orb so long as you roll a 4 or a 5 which while only 30% of the time (100% if you have Skill Link), could be what you need to kill an exceptionally bulky opponent. In summary, while I do think Loaded Dice is an overall slight upgrade, it’s never going to be enough to make Life Orb obsolete.
Imprison was used at one point at the gen 7 metagame where leading with lando and getting rocks was so common, players would use imprison just to stop lando from getting rocks turn 1
For Extrasensory, in HGSS, the Togepi they give you has Extrasensory when hatched, so if you can evolve it to Togekiss, it becomes one of the best mons in the entire game. I actually traded a Shiny Stone from Pearl over to SoulSilver so that I could use Extrasensory Togekiss on my first playthrough.
nice video as always, great commentary and helpful explanations of the moves for casuals like me that forgot what some of these moves are. I always assumed 'water sport' and 'mud sport' were using the less common meaning of 'sport'; as a verb meaning 'to wear or have on one's body'... as in 'cheese is sporting a snorlax hat in this video'. it kinda makes sense, since the pokemon using that move is now presumably covering itself in mud or water. but its still a dreadful move, so no one should be using it enough to bother thinking about what it means.
Omg ave Maria kriketune edition, I love you imported cheese I hope you blow up to millions of subs you are my fav pokemon UA-camr I can't praise you enough man
Well, having Tri Attack can still be nice to have at least something, especially now with hidden powers gone; and it could be used to use or punish the heavy usage of terrain abilities nowadays.
Imprison can be a good move in Doubles to stop your opponent from being able to use Protect (in certain metagames, other moves like Trick Room are also the target of Imprison strategies).
stat lowering moves in VGC are currently good (it still depends on the context though) because you can spam either charm or eerie impulse on dynamax pokemon who almost always don't switch or combo relatively bulky mons with a prankster mon and immidiately attack (example: fake tears whimsicott and a special attacker) so the opponent doesn't have time to switch. They are techs, not 100% used by a pokemon that learns them but they are always taken into consideration when team building and scouting your opponent's moves
Wow, this video is great! It's great to hear about the history of gimmick sets and the incorporated humor of pantomiming the moves made added another layer of entertainment!
Fun fact: Aerial Ace (Tsubame Gaeshi) is a reference to a technique used by the legendary swordsman Sasaki Kojiro, the rival of legendary swordsman Miyamoto Musashi.
Flatter is doubly useless because confusion damage is always physical. Swagger has very narrow uses because while you _are_ giving your opponent a free Swords Dance, if they hit themselves, they're going to be hurt a _lot_ and it might be enough for you to finish them off with your attack before they can make another. It's very risky but it can have rewards. Flatter is just the same as regular confusion-inducing moves, but it gives them a free Sp.Atk boost that only helps them.
14:00 The Hyper Beam clones are also really good in casual playthroughs where you can one shot something you wouldn't with Flamethrower and then switch out ( if you have Switch mode on ). For example, in Leaf Green, I had Frenzy Plant on my Venusaur in case I knew Razor Leaf wouldn't KO. Battling against Lorelei, I used it to knock out her Water-Ice types in one go then switch out to not get hit by the recharge turn and not get damaged via Ice Beam
In gen 4 I had a cradilly set that used stockpile and swords dance alongside recover and rock slide, and it actually did surprisingly well, mostly thanks to suction cups.
Also, Odor Sleuth has the moderately real ingame niche of getting past Double Team and such. Use it against Candice's Froslass and you're sort of getting somewhere. Competitively, since nobody uses evasion hax because that's lame, this is irrelevant. Does Lugia use Psycho Boost?
Now, blast burn certainly isn't a good move, which is reflected in its niche status, however, i believe Charizard sometimes ran it in competitive in gen 3 and 4, for over-the-top damage when you combined it with petya berry, blaze, and sunny day, which actually allowed it to ohk Blissey. Overheat is a better move overall, but not quite enough power to accomplish that feat.
Focus Punch is legit meta-defining for one gen (ADV), modern ADV has a lot of Focus Punchers who don't use Substitute: Tar, Swampert, Zard, Snorlax, Breloom, Heracross, Hariyama. The only Pokemon who regularly uses Sub is Hera. Refresh is a good move as well. It is used on gen 3 Swampert, gen 4 Jirachi, gen 5 Politoed, and Milotic in many gens (staple on Politoed and Milotic). While it's only used on a few Pokemon, it's def better than some low 'staples' like Extrasensory, Tickle, Blaze Kick or Bounce.
Sub Punch Breloom, you literally had two options to prevent damage, sub and spore and then deal damage, and the even funnier part is that poison heal gives more opportunities to create big damage! The only problem was that it really needs Seed Bomb and Rock Tomb/rock coverage to hit everything resisted to fighting. So some sets went with the spore alone and slaped enemies with fucking fokus punch on the switch for some chad damage.
@@ImportedCheese technician is better, just look at this stats lol. It just shows how broken poison heal is when you slap it on breloom with like base 60 or 70 all around and 130 in atk and it reaches A+ in Gen4 ou.
sumo salt, before they enter a bout, each sumo wrestler tosses a handful of salt onnthe clay arena, id imagine makuhita/hariyama keep salt on them so they can always sumo fight via cleansing ring.
I'm from the future, and it turns out, Prankster Assist memes are back, and better than ever. Only in National Dex formats, but they did get banned *from* Ubers, so Assist is officially on the same level as Mega Rayquaza and Zacian-Crowned
@@ImportedCheese In Gen 9 National Dex, Assist can call Revival Blessing, so if you build your team in a very specific way where you have no moves that can be called other than that and you have Purrlion, Liepard, and Meowstic on your team, you have 96 PP of Prankster Revival Blessing.
8:48 Aromatherapy is how I came to adore using Tsareena in competitive, but oddly enough I don't even use the move on it anymore because I can never fit it on my moveset lol
sheer cold is great on phoebe's walrein for making nuzlockers sweat. jeez, I hope they do something nice for bugs in gen 9 with all the moves they cut.
The usage of Nature Power was back in Gen 5 Balanced Hackmons you'd use it to summon priority Earthquake with Prankster Groudon. Dummy busted, but only in a past version of a niche metagame, so yeah
Astonish has a use in Pokemon Reborn’s early game. It turns Protean Froakie Ghost and makes it immune to half the random trainer Pokemon in like the first two gym badges
1:15:34 HAHAHA YOU SEE, THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! I am currently watching this video after going on a small hike of about 2 hours 1:17:19 Gen 7 ou mega camerupt uses nature power to hit rhe latis with moonblast, and water types with thunderbolt or energy ball. There also where sone gimmiki Z Nature Power Serperiors with Tapu koko There also was a dude that used Z Nature Power Whimsicot to get priority Z moves in VGC. 1:18:20 gen 7 ou. Certain Jirachi sets used secret power over bodyslam as it had more pp and could sleep opponents in grassy terrain 60% of the time Shedinja used it as it is a non contact move that could paralyze opponents 1:25:53 Refresh was used on Mega Altaria DD sets that had magneton support in gen 7 uu. Defensive Salamence Mega used Refresh in gen 7 UBERS
I haven't spent a cent on pokemon Unite and I'm pulling W's with Garchomp left right and center. The advantage is holowear which does nothing but give you serious drip
Okay but >yawn on one mon >have garde or other strong special attacker with dream eater >get foe into position where they think they can take the sleep >they knock out your mon, but then you get a free dream eater on them >You either win or come out neutral in any case
Until today, I thought that "sport" had an alternate meaning similar to "spurt" since the animation for Mud/Water Sport involves shooting liquid in the air. But no, that's not true at all. Huh.
Can't wait for the gen 9 moves tier list so we can talk about the time Liepard became another Assist nightmare that was so bad that Showdown killed NatDex AG over it
Hail is *ackshually* a relatively common move on alolan ninetales. Because you basically only run the mon for aurora veil it tends to draw opposing weather setters like ttar or drought users on the turn it tries to get veil off. If you hail on their switch you keep hail up and are nearly guaranteed to get your aurora veil off. Alolan ninetails as a support mon doesnt really need coverage moves so a set of hail, aurora veil, encore and freeze dry is a solid one in pvp.
On Mega Heracross, Arm Thrust has one sort of niche use, which us to break substitute and still damage the opponent This is irrelevant in modern times, but it is worth knowing
@@ImportedCheese I don't know whether most people did, but I did it a lot, and still do occasionally, on Showdown, because it's so out of left field it usually works well enough At what it's good at compared to CC, it's still pretty sad
Smelling salts are also used in some strength sports like powerlifting before doing a heavy lift to have an adrenaline rush and reduce the pain sensation. That explains the Makuhita thing, but it doesn’t make any sense it’s not a fighting move
I highly appreciate the fact you video edit these and upload them. I don't have time to watch 7 hour Livestreams but sure, a yt video I can do. And I appreciate your content
Sercret Power is an amazing move in ORAS. It lets you enter secret bases, scan QR codes, and summon Blissey bases. These things have trainers with 3 level 100 Blisseys that fight you in a triple battle once a day. With a set of Healing Wish and Toxic Orb, they go down quick, making them arguably the best grinding spot in all of Pokémon.
The secret power secret I didn't know
I need to remember that for my next ORAS Nuzlocke.
Dude, it's been years since I've done that! I had forgotten till your comment made me remember.
Secret Power is decent in-game in FRLG as a filler because you get it by the third badge, but unlike RSE you don't have Strength at that point.
@@easyaspi31415 It is arguable better than strength even if you get them both. It has a 30% chance to cause a secondary effect, which will usually be paralysis. That is often better than the higher basepower.
Fun Fact: The abusing of Roar/Whirlwind by other moves is also used with Sleep Talk. Most notably, in Gen 3, there was a set for Aerodactyl with just Sleep Talk and Whirlwind/Roar. It would switch into a move that put them to sleep then just spam Sleep Talk, and nothing (good) in OU outsped it so unless you had priority you were taking a lot of Spikes and Sandstorm damage
I've heard of that set with Crobat!
I used to use a similar set in gen 6 Ubers with Giritina Altered. Rest, Sleep Talk, Dragon Tail, Will O' Wisp, max bulk investment.
Oh god this intro is golden
6% heal a turn wasn't enough to save me
@@ImportedCheese don't worry! I'm gonna use a Max Revive!
I think Filler makes more sense _under_ Niche; Filler is stuff you only use because you got nothing else, whereas Niche is stuff that - while rarely so - you might actually _CHOOSE_ to use.
Doom Desire actually did get used at one point. Due to gen 3 mechanics, Doom Desire doesn’t calculate damage when it attacks, but instead on the turn it’s used. Meaning the damage is calculated based on the defense of the Pokémon that was in on the turn it was used. Sometimes, Choice Band Jirachi was used to lure in Blissey so that in the turn doom desire attacks, it deals a 140 bp unresisted damage on 5 defense. Paired with strong attackers like Salamence you were certainly getting a kill
butbut it was only 120 bp back then! unusable!
since nature power is a status move, it gets boosted by prankster, allowing for whimsicott to have access to some powerful priority moves.
In gen 5, it was used on prankster pokemon in BH like lando t or groudon, because that's a +1 EQ with stab.
Also, it won worlds so yeah, it's niche at minimum
Nerf prankster
@@ImportedCheese It was nerf
@@antoinepolnareff8970 "it was nerf" okay dude
Foresight rapid spin unironically got used competitively for a small time when some people were really annoyed at hazards… and hazard stacking teams showed how worthless it was by just running 2 ghost types so they can switch after a foresight/odor sleuth.
So yeah odor sleuth and foresight are just bad, waste of a turn.
Odor sleuth...stinks....
Swallow should restore 50% on stage one, 100% on stage 2 and give you additional omniboost at stage 3 and it would still be just niche
Good buff!
Regarding Signal Beam, I agree with you. I’ll also add that Signal Beam unusually pairs well with Psychic types. It’s like Focus Blast where it hits 2/3 types that resist Psychic super effectively.
Bug coverage is so sad
The animation of Smelling Salt indicates that the opposing Pokemon is being slapped from both sides, which causes it to snap out of paralysis. It sort of makes sense that the Makuhita line gets this, as their hands are perfect for performing that action. But I have no idea how they came up with the name.
That's why I thought the move was actually wake-up slap!
No one uses that move, either!
sumo wrestlers begin each match by throwing salt on the ring, it's why they learn brine as well
Ignoring the odd animation, the name indeed makes sense with how the move works. Smelling Salts are often used within sports to revive a knocked out player. The strong smell of ammonia when brought close to a fainted person will often shock them back to consciousness. Granted, this would probably work better for a sleeping pokemon (ignoring wake-up slap) or as a reviving item, but the idea still carries over in a way.
@@HonkeyTrash In relation to the name, it's called "きつけ" in Japanese, which can mean resuscitation, but it can imply the medicine or chemicals used for this e.g. "きつけを探せ" (Go find the smelling salts!) so they got the wrong context when translating it. It seems to be a kind of archaic term, just like I'm sure most English speaking kids went "wtf is smelly salt"
The funbro rant at 17:00 killed me lol
Let's having fun
The entirety of the Knock Off section is epic. I'm always impressed with how you phrase things and this is one of your best deliveries.
The rest of the video is great too but here, have some fanfic praise of pointing at my favourite section.
Thank you! I thought about Knock Off a lot during my recent commutes. Lots of time to ponder how...silly the move is.
@@ImportedCheese Also, I never got to use Knock Off. I only ever played X and Y "competitively" and the move tutor for Knock Off was in ORAS. My Bisharp was stuck with Night Slash or Sucker Punch and it better was happy about it
I wonder why calm mind and bulk up are in different tiers
Randomly found this video in my feed and now I'm hooked! Love the humor my guy your long videos will do me wonders at work 😂😂
Thank you! The videos are L O N G
42:48 Fake Tears sometimes sees play in VGC on Prankster pokemon such as Grimmsnarl to give them something to do to contribute to their partner's damage, since the drop equates to halfing the opponent's special defense. It's a bit risky, since it necessarily means you're doubling into one of your opponent's pokemon and they could just Protect, but it does see some play.
V*C
Fake tears was quite good in the Dmax VGC meta ngl, really helped you slow down the enemy
Fake Tears is good in doubles bc it can serve as a better Helping Hand, especially against dynamax pokemon where one-shotting is so powerful. Have your prankster Grimmsnarl or Whimsicott half the Sp Def of a target than one-shot it with the your own special max move.
Sounds like a legit strat!
Time for me to use Fake Tears in my UA-camr apology for Fake tears fake news
@@ImportedCheese The problem is that while it's good, Grimm and Whim are so massively spoiled for choice on great support moves to use with Prankster that Fake Tears is usually outclassed by superior choices.
Charizard actually uses blast burn in gen 3 on a sub petaya set that aims to have a lot of fire power (literally). It has Charizard set up the sun before subing down to its petaya and activating blaze. This allows it to even crush resists and blast burn is basically used as an explosion.
Darn...only one moveslot after sun, sub, and blast burn
@@ImportedCheese yea youd run another fire mover like flamethrower or fire blast. Basically a nuking 1 trick. +1 blaze and stab boost hurts
I've found a segment I forgot to cut! Can you find it, too?!
(It's not the Smelling Salts pauses)
Hyper Voice!
Metal sound comparison to fake tears.
It's very jarring to go from the crisp premium flow to the livestream crawl for the Hyper Voice bit
@@pappalink7734 Hyper voice was the correct answer! I just uh...forgot to delete the clip.
Fake tears good in VGC, particularly on prankster pokemon. Can allow partner to KO a threat they wouldn't be able to otherwise.
that intro is so good it makes me wanna throw all my money into becoming a member
Thank you! I spent $1.50 on the leftovers!
Evolve into a Patreon?!
wow leftovers are really expensive
Now I want to see an imported cheese niche/bad move challenge. Win online battles using only niche/bad moves with exceptions for moves needed to make niche moves work. Moves also can't be currently banned.
I think I made a Gen 1 "egg moves only" video? The moves we got to use there were certainly...uh...not used often.
As of gen 8, taunt is now useful in-game because of max raid battles. You can use it on pokemon like Martin's Solrock so it stops using cosmic power and actually attacks the dynamaxed mon. Very useful for players that don't have friends. Sadly it only lasts a few turns though.
Gamefreak made a problem to sell us a solution
Do you really wanna waste turns not attacking there and beating down the shield?
Thank you so much for putting the rolling Spheal for ice ball. That has made my day.
Pls don't take Spheal clubbing, he just wants to roll
I’ll allow it, considering he’s such an adorable man
1:20:31
"Scrappy" doesn't make sense as the "Can hit ghost types with anything" ability's name. A way cooler one would've been "Exorcist".
It makes perfect sense. If anything 'exorcist' doesn't make sense and has other connotations
@@rollingstoned8417 Your opinion is STUPID and WRONG
Have you ever seen an exorcist cow?
Great Premium edit as always. Big fan of 28:45 in particular. The Live for this one was a lot of fun, so I'm glad to see it translate into a quality Premium. Looking forward to the next Tier list.
Nature power is pretty darn solid in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games, because the moves are, like you said, REALLY solid! A lot of them (notably the extremely common energy ball) are 4-range projectiles, which are very good. The few 1-range moves it can take are all very powerful, and its best move by far is earth power, which is a screen nuke. Its best trait by far is its 20 PP, which is almost certainly higher than whatever move it copies (keep in mind that this is in the PMD series, where PP actually matters). It does have a few downsides, most notably that since Pokemon often match their environments, some Pokemon in the dungeon will resist it, but for Pokemon like Cyndaquill who are really hurting for coverage will be grateful for it.
Mystery dungeon moves are so different...I remember Agility being wtf op and bullet seed being pretty good
I dont think that Hoenn has too much water, as long as you use dive. Most of the water routes are optional and/or have cool secrets tucked away, and/or has an interesting design element. Diving, rapids, the abandoned shipwreck, the ice cave, etc.
The one thing I would change is, I would make dive more mandatory for navigating the late-game water routes. Rocks blocking the path forward that can only be navigated by diving. That would encourage people to actually dive more, which would help with the perception. If you treat the dive routes like they're a surf route, you're gonna think there is too much water.
I think the shipwreck is one of my favorite areas. The issue with the water is that you encounter the same boring water pokemon for like...1/3rd of the game. Zero variety!
@@ImportedCheese True, but I personally use Repel on those routes anyway hehe
Dive could made the water section of the game more interesting, like discovering secrets of the land all over, but the routes that are only water tiles are boring design wise, they could have put some interesting landmarks and such to make navigation and exploration more interesting.
@@ImportedCheese At least we got Clampearl? Clamperl? I don't know, Pokémon names are confusing.
Nature power on normalium z whimsicott actually won the VGC 2017 world championships. The team had tapu koko and tapu fini, so he could switch in fini to get a strong stab fairy move on the switch or koko for a strong terrain boosted electric move.
1:15:08 Water Sport is better than Mud Sport, because Budew learns Water Sport and actually dampens one of its weaknesses ,,, is what I would say if Mud Sport couldn't be bred onto like, a bunch of water types
The reason for the "Too Much Water" meme isn't because of the amount of water, but because IGN basically listed the water as one of the cons of the remakes before rating them 7.5/10. If memory serves me right, that was the only listed con in their review, hence people making fun
But...that is a legitimate con tho!
Not really. There genuinely is way too many water routes. The game feels bloated by their inclusion.
@@josephhanicak7922 At least it serves for more than just a mandatory roadblock like it otherwise is in most of the other games
@@ImportedCheese the problem was that it was on the *remake*. You know, what were you expecting for a remake of R/S/E? That they paved over the water?
Way too many water routes and water being lopsidedly favored mechanically over fire and grass (true of all Pokemon gens, but at it's most prominent in Hoenn)
the hyper beam clones are also good in 1v1's, which is even more niche
I guess if the battle ends after you use it, they're not too bad
That intro enlighted me and gave me insight. Best gen 3 game is pinball
K N O C K E D O F F
Okay, I've never really followed competitive, so hearing about those Assist cheese starts is honestly the funniest thing I've heard so far today. I kinda wanna use em in a Nuzlocke lmao. You go, you funky little cats!
Not the best strat if you want to win alot, but very good if you want to win rarely but decisively
I feel like eruption is meta defining since it's also available on Torkoal, who ever since that thing got drought, keeps seeing usage on VGC trick room teams to deal really high spread damage.
And also all the special attacking Primal Groudons in gen VI doubles that kept showing up because it's a 150 BP stab move and Groudon getting a really good type combo and not being frail to the Xerneas in the room.
I don't like Torkoal
Hey imported cheese
The vid is great as always!
Might need to evolve into a patreon
Out of curiosity, will we get a HGSS in game tier list or is it too similar to the GS ingame tier list?
I already made the thumbnail for the HGSS tier list! It will either be that or Gen 1 Japanese Names next!
@@ImportedCheese hype!
Funny thing about Multihit moves: now that loaded dice exists their odds go from 35% for 2 or 3 each and 15% for 4 or 5 each to a even 50-50 between 4 and 5 times. Meaning a pokemon with both technician and loaded dice will either do 150 or 188 base power with the moves with no downside of any kind. Worst case scenario, they do the same base damage as a Hyper Beam Clone with no downside. Best case scenario it does nearly Self-Destruct damage without destroying your own pokemon.
Might still be worse than life orb...cool item tho!!
@@ImportedCheese I actually ran the numbers: so if you account for the 30% life orb boost. On average you’re doing 4.03 times base damage when you account for the different rates. This is not only statistically worse than Loaded Dice which is 4.5 times base damage on average; but on top of that-Life Orb hurts you by 1/10hp/use of an attacking move. So you do less damage OVERALL and take more damage too; but the boost of life orb isn’t just 1 move and you do have a slim, but not negligible, chance to do more damage in a single turn with life orb so long as you roll a 4 or a 5 which while only 30% of the time (100% if you have Skill Link), could be what you need to kill an exceptionally bulky opponent. In summary, while I do think Loaded Dice is an overall slight upgrade, it’s never going to be enough to make Life Orb obsolete.
Imprison was used at one point at the gen 7 metagame where leading with lando and getting rocks was so common, players would use imprison just to stop lando from getting rocks turn 1
L*ndorus
For Extrasensory, in HGSS, the Togepi they give you has Extrasensory when hatched, so if you can evolve it to Togekiss, it becomes one of the best mons in the entire game. I actually traded a Shiny Stone from Pearl over to SoulSilver so that I could use Extrasensory Togekiss on my first playthrough.
If only Shiny Stone was available from pokeathalon...
@@ImportedCheese It is, but only after getting the National Dex, so after the Elite Four. It's very unfortunate.
nice video as always, great commentary and helpful explanations of the moves for casuals like me that forgot what some of these moves are.
I always assumed 'water sport' and 'mud sport' were using the less common meaning of 'sport'; as a verb meaning 'to wear or have on one's body'... as in 'cheese is sporting a snorlax hat in this video'. it kinda makes sense, since the pokemon using that move is now presumably covering itself in mud or water. but its still a dreadful move, so no one should be using it enough to bother thinking about what it means.
the moves are so bad, wondering about their meanings is the most interesting about them
Glad that assist got a mention, especially Divecats in doubles, one of the finest cheeses in pokemon
Only the finest cheeses here on Imported Cheese!
Fantastic intro !
Can't wait for more tier lists :)
Thank you! Next one will be...I dunno, might be HGSS ingame.
55:54 Man, I miss when Bulbapedia had working pictures and less Error 503s.
Hoping it gets fixed soon
Thank you, I thought something was wrong with my browser.
Kinda love how Eruption sounds powerful, and Water Spout sounds like someone brought the almighty garden hose.
I assume it's a water spout from a whale, kinda spooky
@@ImportedCheese I think it's a Wailmer Pail.
Primarina using Liquid Voice with a Throat Spray is actually pretty legit.
Pls buff liquid voice
Heat wave was amazing for monster houses in the mystery dungeon series!
I dunno much about mystery dungeon
I love blitzball. I probably checked every Spira resident to see if they played. Basically ended up signing the kilika beasts entire team.
Get outta here Jecht
Omg ave Maria kriketune edition, I love you imported cheese I hope you blow up to millions of subs you are my fav pokemon UA-camr I can't praise you enough man
Well, having Tri Attack can still be nice to have at least something, especially now with hidden powers gone; and it could be used to use or punish the heavy usage of terrain abilities nowadays.
Why is tri attack normal
Imprison can be a good move in Doubles to stop your opponent from being able to use Protect (in certain metagames, other moves like Trick Room are also the target of Imprison strategies).
WELL DONE LINK, GANON IS ONCE AGAIN IMPRISONED
Zacian running imprison to often fully shut down opposing Dogs was rather common
stat lowering moves in VGC are currently good (it still depends on the context though) because you can spam either charm or eerie impulse on dynamax pokemon who almost always don't switch or combo relatively bulky mons with a prankster mon and immidiately attack (example: fake tears whimsicott and a special attacker) so the opponent doesn't have time to switch. They are techs, not 100% used by a pokemon that learns them but they are always taken into consideration when team building and scouting your opponent's moves
Wow, this video is great! It's great to hear about the history of gimmick sets and the incorporated humor of pantomiming the moves made added another layer of entertainment!
I was able to catch the tail end of this Live and I'm excited to see what I missed!
Thanks for stopping by! Hope THE PREMIUM holds up!
Fun fact: Aerial Ace (Tsubame Gaeshi) is a reference to a technique used by the legendary swordsman Sasaki Kojiro, the rival of legendary swordsman Miyamoto Musashi.
FAKE FAN hasn't seen my Japanese moves video!
Flatter is doubly useless because confusion damage is always physical.
Swagger has very narrow uses because while you _are_ giving your opponent a free Swords Dance, if they hit themselves, they're going to be hurt a _lot_ and it might be enough for you to finish them off with your attack before they can make another. It's very risky but it can have rewards.
Flatter is just the same as regular confusion-inducing moves, but it gives them a free Sp.Atk boost that only helps them.
I think I mentioned that in the Gen 2 moves list when we actually talked about Swagger
Regarding Heat Wave, the absolute devastation of Zapdos losing that move in Gen 8 :(
Yet another Pokemon Snap victim
It still gets heat wave wdym
@@ragnarok3703 Jacob means brilliant diamond and shining pearl where it doesn't get heat wave at all
@@danielotano8677 nobody cares about these remakes tbf
Literally everything about the dragon dance section was perfect
+1/+1?!
14:00
The Hyper Beam clones are also really good in casual playthroughs where you can one shot something you wouldn't with Flamethrower and then switch out ( if you have Switch mode on ). For example, in Leaf Green, I had Frenzy Plant on my Venusaur in case I knew Razor Leaf wouldn't KO. Battling against Lorelei, I used it to knock out her Water-Ice types in one go then switch out to not get hit by the recharge turn and not get damaged via Ice Beam
Disgusting casual strats!!
I think I mentioned that when I talked about the OG hyper beam
Not on set mode? Boo!
@@billybobbobson3797 why would i be on set mode tho
hope you eventually do gen 6! really interested to hear your thoughts on the move rototiller
A+ flavor but uh...why would you ever use it lmao
@@ImportedCheese power up a stored power Leafeon..I believe its known as the forbidden combo in Japan (I could be wrong)
In gen 4 I had a cradilly set that used stockpile and swords dance alongside recover and rock slide, and it actually did surprisingly well, mostly thanks to suction cups.
what about INGRAIN for INFINITE SUSTAIN
34:29: Dragon Dance, Dragon Dance! It's almost time to shit my pants!
Also, Odor Sleuth has the moderately real ingame niche of getting past Double Team and such. Use it against Candice's Froslass and you're sort of getting somewhere.
Competitively, since nobody uses evasion hax because that's lame, this is irrelevant.
Does Lugia use Psycho Boost?
Just one shot them before they boost evasion EZ
apparently foresight/odor sleuth had some niche competitively to counter spin blocking ghost types
I didn’t know how much I needed a Kricketune cover of Ave Maria until now
Should be a link to the original in the description!
17:06 that's seems to be nightmare fuel
Every time I use taunt on wild Abra I feel really smart.
Just use quick balls!!
Or don't, quick balls are so hideous
@@ImportedCheese I guess I'm the only one who likes them? 😂
A bit closer to rank Gen 6's "Rototiller"
One of Onix's best moves.
Best of the worst
Being Onix's best move really isn't saying much
Now, blast burn certainly isn't a good move, which is reflected in its niche status, however, i believe Charizard sometimes ran it in competitive in gen 3 and 4, for over-the-top damage when you combined it with petya berry, blaze, and sunny day, which actually allowed it to ohk Blissey.
Overheat is a better move overall, but not quite enough power to accomplish that feat.
At least there's Dmax usage for Blast Burn
1:28:27 Rock Tomb, the sequel to TM28 Tombstoner
I think I mentioned Tombstoner?! At the very least I tried to add an R to "Tombstone" pizza
Chikorita for life.
We'll uh...we'll see. I made the buff Meganium for the Gen 2 Starter analysis, but I don't plan to use it much...
Focus Punch is legit meta-defining for one gen (ADV), modern ADV has a lot of Focus Punchers who don't use Substitute: Tar, Swampert, Zard, Snorlax, Breloom, Heracross, Hariyama. The only Pokemon who regularly uses Sub is Hera.
Refresh is a good move as well. It is used on gen 3 Swampert, gen 4 Jirachi, gen 5 Politoed, and Milotic in many gens (staple on Politoed and Milotic). While it's only used on a few Pokemon, it's def better than some low 'staples' like Extrasensory, Tickle, Blaze Kick or Bounce.
Guess I'm not focused
The edits make these so enjoyable :)
I had to take a 98 bp hit to make this!
Nice video as usual, can't wait for the other tier lists too!
Thank you! And thanks for joining the Discord!
Sub Punch Breloom, you literally had two options to prevent damage, sub and spore and then deal damage, and the even funnier part is that poison heal gives more opportunities to create big damage! The only problem was that it really needs Seed Bomb and Rock Tomb/rock coverage to hit everything resisted to fighting. So some sets went with the spore alone and slaped enemies with fucking fokus punch on the switch for some chad damage.
But the new technician sets are so good!
@@ImportedCheese technician is better, just look at this stats lol. It just shows how broken poison heal is when you slap it on breloom with like base 60 or 70 all around and 130 in atk and it reaches A+ in Gen4 ou.
Fun fact: in gen 3 only, Overheat is a contact move!
That is a fun fact!!
1:15:20 - I guess sport as in the verb to wear. Your pokemon is now sporting some mud/water
Let's! Sports!
i laugh out loud as always, you're amazing
Cosmic Power is actually pretty good in Gen 8. Unkillable sweepers are a thing in that gen
Gen Ei*ht tho
But you know one of the worst parts of gen 8? Martin's Solrock using cosmic power
sumo salt, before they enter a bout, each sumo wrestler tosses a handful of salt onnthe clay arena, id imagine makuhita/hariyama keep salt on them so they can always sumo fight via cleansing ring.
I thought that was rice?!
I'm from the future, and it turns out, Prankster Assist memes are back, and better than ever.
Only in National Dex formats, but they did get banned *from* Ubers, so Assist is officially on the same level as Mega Rayquaza and Zacian-Crowned
what's the new Assist strat?
@@ImportedCheese In Gen 9 National Dex, Assist can call Revival Blessing, so if you build your team in a very specific way where you have no moves that can be called other than that and you have Purrlion, Liepard, and Meowstic on your team, you have 96 PP of Prankster Revival Blessing.
Respect for that Gaston man. That was excellent!
Let's! Bulking up!
8:48 Aromatherapy is how I came to adore using Tsareena in competitive, but oddly enough I don't even use the move on it anymore because I can never fit it on my moveset lol
Strictly better than Heal Bell!!
Colosseum in game tier list is far better content than a Gen 6 (and on) list. With exp share, everything is usable /video.
It also shouldn't take 10 hours
Fake Tears is actually used in VGC. It's like Helping Hand.
VGC must be destroyed
sheer cold is great on phoebe's walrein for making nuzlockers sweat.
jeez, I hope they do something nice for bugs in gen 9 with all the moves they cut.
Why is bug resisted by so many types
Imported Cheese: *complains about their being too much water in Hoenn*
Team Aqua: hmmm, yes, the floor here is made out of water.
It's why I pick Ruby! :FlamWar:
I'm really looking forward to your pokemon colosseum tier list. Feraligatr will be "S" for Surf tier.
Is surf in that game tho?!
@@ImportedCheese Yup. Croconaw just has it.
I actually died from laughing with the krickitune song in the beginning
Link to the original in the description!
Blast burn was used on Charizard in gen 3 OU sometimes, but about it beyond weird VGC stufff and Max moves
The usage of Nature Power was back in Gen 5 Balanced Hackmons you'd use it to summon priority Earthquake with Prankster Groudon. Dummy busted, but only in a past version of a niche metagame, so yeah
Astonish has a use in Pokemon Reborn’s early game. It turns Protean Froakie Ghost and makes it immune to half the random trainer Pokemon in like the first two gym badges
Neat use but I dont think usage in fangames counts
1:15:34
HAHAHA
YOU SEE, THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!
I am currently watching this video after going on a small hike of about 2 hours
1:17:19
Gen 7 ou
mega camerupt uses nature power to hit rhe latis with moonblast, and water types with thunderbolt or energy ball.
There also where sone gimmiki Z Nature Power Serperiors with Tapu koko
There also was a dude that used Z Nature Power Whimsicot to get priority Z moves in VGC.
1:18:20
gen 7 ou.
Certain Jirachi sets used secret power over bodyslam as it had more pp and could sleep opponents in grassy terrain 60% of the time
Shedinja used it as it is a non contact move that could paralyze opponents
1:25:53
Refresh was used on Mega Altaria DD sets that had magneton support in gen 7 uu.
Defensive Salamence Mega used Refresh in gen 7 UBERS
Darn...I could tell you to take a hike, but it wouldn't even be an insult!
29:07 this sound effect never fails to make me laugh 29:49 as well
Farts!!!!!
I haven't spent a cent on pokemon Unite and I'm pulling W's with Garchomp left right and center. The advantage is holowear which does nothing but give you serious drip
But you COULD pay and win even more, disgusting
Okay but
>yawn on one mon
>have garde or other strong special attacker with dream eater
>get foe into position where they think they can take the sleep
>they knock out your mon, but then you get a free dream eater on them
>You either win or come out neutral in any case
Seems uh...kinda bad, lots of stuff that can go wrong just to try and use Dream Eater, which is barely stronger than Psychic
@@ImportedCheese Yes, but it would be funny.
Until today, I thought that "sport" had an alternate meaning similar to "spurt" since the animation for Mud/Water Sport involves shooting liquid in the air. But no, that's not true at all. Huh.
Pokemon players have no idea about sports!!!
Can't wait for the gen 9 moves tier list so we can talk about the time Liepard became another Assist nightmare that was so bad that Showdown killed NatDex AG over it
Gen 9 moves within the decade maybe?!
Hail is *ackshually* a relatively common move on alolan ninetales. Because you basically only run the mon for aurora veil it tends to draw opposing weather setters like ttar or drought users on the turn it tries to get veil off. If you hail on their switch you keep hail up and are nearly guaranteed to get your aurora veil off. Alolan ninetails as a support mon doesnt really need coverage moves so a set of hail, aurora veil, encore and freeze dry is a solid one in pvp.
4:15 So Aerial Ace IS THE TIGER BLADE (TALES OF) OF POKEMON
DEMON FANG
On Mega Heracross, Arm Thrust has one sort of niche use, which us to break substitute and still damage the opponent
This is irrelevant in modern times, but it is worth knowing
did anyone actually do this tho
75 base power total....sad!
@@ImportedCheese I don't know whether most people did, but I did it a lot, and still do occasionally, on Showdown, because it's so out of left field it usually works well enough
At what it's good at compared to CC, it's still pretty sad
Smelling salts are also used in some strength sports like powerlifting before doing a heavy lift to have an adrenaline rush and reduce the pain sensation. That explains the Makuhita thing, but it doesn’t make any sense it’s not a fighting move
GameFreak clearly not sports fans!
That kricektune im fucking dying
So is Kricketune! Bad stats!!!
I highly appreciate the fact you video edit these and upload them. I don't have time to watch 7 hour Livestreams but sure, a yt video I can do. And I appreciate your content
Thank you for watching! I think these edits are a nice compromise between the older, solo lists and the newer ones with audience input.
@@ImportedCheese keep up the good stuff and I'll keep watching. So far a+ stuff.
Or I'll say I rank you as "meta defining"