Alkaline Diets, Animal Protein, and Calcium Loss
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2013
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DESCRIPTION: The decades-old dogma that the acid-forming quality of animal protein leads to bone loss has been called into question.
Now the boost in calcium absorption can only compensate if you're taking enough in. For example, dietary acid load may be associated with lower bone mineral density in those getting under 800mg (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23...) a day. Plant Protein is Preferable (nutritionfacts.org/video/plant...) to animal protein for a variety of reasons (tends to have less methionine, is less IGF-1, nutritionfacts.org/video/prote..., promoting, etc., nutritionfacts.org/index.php?s..., but it's not clear how much of an advantage it has when it comes to bone health.
I previously touched on this topic in my video Is Protein Bad to the Bone? (nutritionfacts.org/video/is-pr...) But I promised I'd take a deeper dive, and here it is! If there are other topics you'd like me to cover in greater depth please note them below in the comment section.
Note to chemistry geeks: of course it's the calcium salt anions that really do the buffering (carbonate in Tums and phosphate in bones), but I'm trying my best to simplify for a largely lay audience! Get ready for some kitchen chemistry (actually bathroom chemistry!) in my next video Testing Your Diet with Pee & Purple Cabbage (nutritionfacts.org/video/testi....
Have a question for Dr. Greger about this video? Leave it in the comment section at nutritionfacts.org/video/alkal... and he'll try to answer it!
Image Credit: Devlin Thompson and Robert Belknap via flickr, Petwoe and BruceBlaus via Wikimedia, and diy.org.
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this is why I like Dr. Greger, he's honest even when it would be inconvenient for veganism. Its a sign you could trust him
I agree Edward! He's definitely honest! :)
Edward Cohen i
Edward Cohen
ua-cam.com/video/HXWaCfWi1_U/v-deo.html
@Will Taylor shut your piehole ,you know nothing, fool
People say he's biased towards veganism: I guess this video shows he isn't
ifer lyf how does this show he isn‘t? All he‘s saying, is that in this particular case, the mechanism are different than previously assumed, but without any consequences. Or am I missing something?
At least this video is telling you stop eating flesh foods if you have a problem with your health and your digestive system ..in my opinion eating flesh foods I e carnivore is having your digestive system a cemetery for dead animals and worst still we cook them prior to eating ..🇳🇿
Is it a crime to be a specialist?
Ok...So this video explains that increased urinary Ca2+ excretion with a high protein diet is caused by an excess absorption of Ca2+ in the intestines and therefore the increase in excreted Ca2+ is accounted for. So that means that meat does not in fact deplete Ca2+ from our bodies because it the influx/outflow is basically a wash. However, if someone were to eat a high animal protein diet without ample alkaline foods such as dark green leafy vegetables, then there would not be sufficient influx of Ca2+ to offset the acidity and the calcium will come from your muscles (not from your bones) to buffer the increased acidity. So whether you eat meat or not, getting in a large amount of vegetables every day is vitally important.
Calcium absorption goes up when eating lots of animal protein because animal protein usually contains more Menaquinone, which helps calcium absorption from the blood stream via osteocalcin, but absorption can only rise up to a certain point, beyond which will just result in calcium loss from the bones via Parathyroid hormone, which tries to increase calcium content in the blood to raise the pH, since the blood stream wants to stay in homeostasis, which is also why parathyroid hormone has such a short half-life. This in turn causes the C-cells, produced by the thyroid, to produce calcitonin, which decreases calcium in the blood stream by taking it to the kidneys, which then comes out with the urine. In addition, when the body has inflammation, Osteoblasts and T cells (from the Thymus gland) produce Interleukin-6, which in turn stimulates Osteoclast formation, which are responsible for breaking bone down. In addition Retinol, mostly found in animals, also stimulates osteoclast activity. Retinol is still useful in the reformation of deformed bones however. Vitamin D3 stimulates osteoblast formation for the building of bones. Osteoblasts produce Osteocalcin which needs Menaquinone to become carboxylated/active. Its all a big balancing act between Menaquinone (Vitamin K2), Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), Retinol (Vitamin A1) , and Protein intake. BTW Menaquinone is barely detectable in factory farmed animal products, so you have to stick with grass fed everything if your going to get any Menaquinone in your diet, otherwise take a pill.
MILK is the worst offender, there is no menaquinone, its a liquid and easily shocks the blood stream in terms of "trying" to lower pH since its not hard to digest in a liquid state, its fortified vitamin D content is too low to make a difference, and its high in protein, especially when you eat bacon, eggs, and ham with a glass of it in the morning, only then to have a steak at lunch, and hot dogs at dinner, just adding that much more protein to a diet that is already too high in protein.
So animal products cause muscle wasting and osteoporosis then? Is the animal products worse for the bones or for muscles? Which does it "attack" first? Jw, thanks
Being vegan is awesome.
Point being, put calcium into the system, put animal-source "foods" into the system, and presto, the calcium passes through, adding no net gain of calcium, entailing in fact gradual net loss from the system....
1. I do know the difference between correlation and causation but when there's correlation one does often at least suspect causation.
2. One scientific study can contradict another. A single study can never be sufficient. One should look at several studies.
Ok so according to this study animal protein gets the calcium from your diet, not your bones. My question is if you primarily eat only meat along with little or no calcium in the diet, where is your body going get that calcium from to make your body alkaline and not acidic? Also, please explain why the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis are also the highest in meat consumption?
And that’s it? Are they also the highest in sugar consumption? What about alcohol? Lack of vitamin d? Do they get sunlight? Or do they never drink milk? So that’s it? The only difference is they eat more meat? Why single that out?
Osteoporosis has a lot to do with inactivity... "rich" countries (i.e. those who are eating more animal products and processed foods) are also the laziest countries... it may not be the food, but the lack of weight-bearing exercise that contributes to poor bone health.
awesome channel....keep up the great work!!
You need to address the K2 story. It may be a missing link to calcium deposits outside of the bones.
Exactly. I doubt the Masai have osteoporosis issues.
Could it be that the high protein diet doesn't really reduce bone density but the higher potassium intake in a plant based diet promotes bone health, preventing osteopororis?
@Rob, yes yes...I eat purple cabbage almost as often as I eat my dino kale...I NEED to know the next sequence NOW!!!!! :-)
i never know what to believe. ..everyone has an angle.
I feel you. Do what I do, trial and error. If, after taking into account the time it takes to adapt, you feel good, then you're good to go. I personally do veganism, it's what makes me feel awesome and lifted all the time. There's times when I feel I'm missing something, but then I figure out what it is by tracking my macros and micros in the food I ate, and I usually find the culprit. Sometimes I have to take into account one specific food that made me ill for some reason (maybe I ate too fast, or I should've eaten it with other food/water because of it's acidic properties, for instance, and so on). Believe yourself, and read first hand studies. Not youtube comments. People spread contradicting messages all the time, and it really messes with you.
So, good luck. I feel your pain also though
Dr Greger,
Thanks for your work.
What about osteoporosis in the blue zone?
Dr Greger, do you know anything about chocolate impact on calcium absorption?
Fascinating. Looking forward to the cabbage video.
Thanks you so much for this video :)
great content thank you
I thought the last study implied what our body is doing is NOT buffering the acid, rather than drawing calcium from our muscles in order to buffer?
You have to factor in that many of the countries that consume more protein also have less hours of vitamin d producing sunlight, compared to low protein consuming countries.
Dr. Greger: two questions: how is the calcium adsorption calculated? Also can we have experiments where there is no calcium introduced when these foods are introduced? Like if you eat only meat and no calcium at all, what will happen in the urine?
This man is sculpting me In ways no other human ever has. I'm becoming FREE.
Incredibile!
You are the Closer my teachers dr sebi and dr nun amen ra.
Keep it up
Why assume there's enough cacium in the diet to buffer the high meat diet?
And it COULD be that countries that consume more protein also have a higher risk of falling and a generally lower level of physical fitness in the elderly.
So if people do not fall and break their bones, we do not see the osteoporosis.
This is fantastic information because, is should be the case with all science it is based in truth, not conjecture, myth or wishful thinking. With all the debate over the acid / alkaline balance and it's relationship to health, the truth is often hard to find.
It’s only one part of an acidic diet. The acidity and putrefaction factor of an animal based diet still causes things like GERD and colon cancer
How can we build up our bones as kids when we already eat a high animal-calorie diet?
What about plant protein, i.e. quinoa?
Howard Johnson its perfect for you, or spirulina and it doesnt wash off the calcium, he doesnt want to say that it seems because he wants to use a non-scientific test with no control example of a non-dairy eater for comparison
Gregg4, in 2009 a major study shows that the use of dairy in you diet, causes more broken bones in than non-dairy use. This is explained by the long term use of dairy, apparently affects or kills off the bodys bone forming cells.
What happens when people get older and run out of muscle. Then does the bone calcium become the source?
Also remember that many of these countries have many other unhealthy habits, such as drinking a lot of soda, coffee, tea, (moderation is ok with coffee and tea but many have these in excess in these countries). Animal protein and dairy is only one piece to the big puzzle we call life.
i.would be interested to know, if the results are same if a wild animal was fed. perhaps factory meat was given which has all sort of problems, including this.
I have hyperparathyroidism and silent reflux,what can I eat ?I don't want to loose weight.
Doc, i'm a HUDGE fan of your videos, and since i study nutrition it has been very useafull for me.
But How would you explain bodybuilders high-protein and high-calcium diets?
Im not refearing to their super strong bones, but also the fact they don't show any signs of kidney problems even when they reach 20 years careers?
Thanks a lot for the videos you make. I DO learn a lot from them, but even though, they just can't change my mind about plant base diet.
Hey did you pursue your nutrition career?
@@nagitoultimatehope2356 Yes. Graduaded 2018.
Thanks
SO what's the problem with acid forming nutrition then//
Are we assuming that the average person gets enough of the right calcium to be able to buffet the acid?
This makes SO much sense!! I love this. Thank you so much for your honest and (mostly) objective video content. I feared for a while you were mainly promoting veganism and sharing content that backed-up your believes on the benefits of a vegan lifestyle... however lately I've been pleasantly surprised with your topics and objective health approach! Thank you so much :)
😘 genio, genio, genio, genio, genio, genio, genio, genio!!!
💚💚💚
Do you have any citations to support your claim that osteoporosis is more common in countries that consume more protein?
excuse me, would anyone clarify?.... so id he saying that actually animal protein is PREVENTING bone loss?... I'm not sure I followed the whole logic trail...
I think he's just saying that your bones aren't your body's first choice for buffering calcium. Despite what was commonly assumed.
so confused with some of the videos you put out i literally don't get them... I wish you could empathize a little more on a verdict. It's like you leave it open for us to make our own decision but you're the doctor, we need your interpretation not our own.
His goal is to present the mass body of research that has been publicized to date. He gives no opinions. If you could draw a common conclusion from all his videos it would be to stop eating all animal products as soon as possible lol
Emphasize?
@@lukerobinson9418 and processed junk!
Korey Moore He presents the evidence, and aims to keep his view out of it. Doctors should be (although they do not, at least not mine ever) presenting patients with all the options a patient has for a problem, as well as pros and cons, but that rarely happens if at all. Like with cancer, the only option is conventional in their eyes - so the patient leaves the office knowing only part of their options, unless they decide to learn more on their own. I want to be presented the evidence, as well the pros and cons, and then use my brain to make the best decision for me. Dr.Greger is doing a respectable thing by keeping his point of view out of the videos as much as possible.
I think it is the net overall total acidity of the diet that contributes to bone loss NOT say one part of the diet but the total. If we eat ample fruits and vegetables acidity of consuming meat should not be an issue.
*+David Mosier* "the ingestion of animal protein does not come from the persons bones...Vegans need to get the science right."
This video is a living example of 'Vegans getting the science right'.
Jester123ish nail on the head brother
For reasons unknown, some people have significantly more Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase, the enzyme that splits apart cholesterol and increase the absorption of calcium. Bottom line: some folks are meant to eat meat as part of their diet.
Such a cliffhanger!
???
Can you quote what you are responding to? What "assumption"? What "will we know in 20 years?
So healthy keto should be perfect?
Why are the countries with the highest dairy intake also the ones with the worst bone health? What about the links to breast cancer also? Where is the vegan comparison for control additionally, you have not used that information either to make this a fair test. All of these examples didn't include what happens if you dont drink cows milk. Additionally what about babies on mothers milk do they secrete it in their urine also? I prefer calcium from a plant base such as guava, my teeth are far stronger now then the problems i was having before being a cow milk drinker.
+Irie Beatz umm guava
Meat industries our trillion dollar companies if not more. These Meat and Dairy Industries are interconnected with Health Care Providers, Drug Companies, Medical Equipment Companies. They are all in on it together. I would go deeper into our corrupt system and government, but people are probably just going to call me a conspiracy theorist so I'm not going to go there. As you get higher up the pyramid, at the highest levels of our society the idea of pushing meat on people goes beyond money. If people would use their heads and think for themselves, they should understand that these trillion-dollar meat industries will do whatever it takes to fight back. Rest assure that these meat industries will have their very well paid debunkers, bloggers, healthcare professionals, researchers, publishers or whoever else that they can pay off to oppose those who are trying to expose these meat industries and bring out the ugly truth about them. Meat industry don't like anyone who wants to mess with their trillion-dollar piggy bank. Not to mention the Drug Companies, Medical Equipment Companies, Health Care Providers will merely be out of jobs.
+Karina Nalbandyan The problem is your only looking at a small part of the problem If your focusing on only the meat Industry and animal cruelty that's fine .But it is a systemic problem that includes all of the Industries Sugar, Big Agra, the pharmaceutical Industry, cancer Industry, the Doctors themselves Etc. The problem is that America has become a "Corporatocracy"= an Eco-system of collective psychological organisms that feed off of the physical environment and use people as its cells. there really is only two problems either lack of understanding or lack of respect for nature. In the end the fundamental patterns of nature will always play out and mankind will never be separate from this process , It is a closed system.
+Karina Nalbandyan yes their is one group of people in California who live an average of 6 years longer than anywhere else in USA, they are seventh day adventists, who eat a high plant based diet, surely that counts for something.
@karina nalbandyan why would you say the bigger picture is ? ^_^im curious to know what you think " ..... pushing meat on people goes beyond money. " where exactly ? , im quite familiar and have a solid idea about it, so let me know what u think .
wow and here i thought you were biased
mc dougall is wrong about calcium
Those countries also own more TV's per household, own more books, live in larger houses and have better education... correlation doesn't equal causation.
I'm not convinced. If that's true, what causes osteoporosis?
If most of the calcium came from the food, could not some of the calcium have come from the bones?
And why is it that osteopororis is more common in countries that consume more protein?
What a teaser !
hard to get my calcium up as a vegan. start having bone pain. its getting better now
Norman Osborn
Good... Goooooood.... Soon you'll be in shape to kill Spider-Man.
What if it is not due to their diet? Have they controlled for physical work in the kings and the hard working peasants?
...when grass fed and free range animal protein is combined with fruits and vegetables and eaten by individuals with an abundance of IAP(intestinal alkaline phosphatase, a fat buster)..roughly 50% of the population, high IAP and adequate animal protein actually increases calcium uptake and strengthens bones
So this issue is a wash?
I think the point was that the radioactive calcium was absorbed, otherwise how would it end up in the urine. If it wasn't absorbed it would have gone straight through the intestines
The major flaw here is that the calcium being lost is coming from BOTH the bones and the food, which is why the urine contains radioactive elements. Animal products like meat DO CAUSE OSTEOPOROSIS via calcium leeching.
+LiberatedMind I was just thinking why in the world did they feed calcium to the test sample. It only tells you what happens to the calcium consumed but it doesn't say anything about what happens to the bone, which is what the test was trying to figure out. This test was designed from the beginning to provide no answer for whatever shady reason. Medical industry is so shady.
***** Good catch, most all of the research that shows such results is a conflict of interest.
***** Pointing out a conflict of interest doesn't equate to a conspiracy you backwards idiot.
***** These studies use calcium isotopes which don't measure true calcium balance, idiot!
You can directly measure calcium balance through urine and feces. There are slew of clinical trials that do this and they all show animal protein makes you piss your bones away while plant protein doesn't, dumbass!
+NoToBigBro 👍
Why would nature design milk to be acidic if it's meant for baby mammals to grow and develop. If it has a negative impact on bone health, surely this is the opposite of what you'd want for a creature in its developmental stages.
Or is this something that is OK for cows and only has an adverse affect on humans? I.e, is women's breast milk also acidic?
+Jonny Marshall Your body can't be purely alkaline. And not all acid is bad for you. Raw milk has vitamins that heated milk doesn't have. Raw milk promotes healthy stomach digestion control. Raw milk is a probiotic.
The pH of human breast milk ranges from 7-7.45, making it neutral.
+Lucian Corvus So does that mean that the blood of cows is more acidic if their mothers' milk is acidic?
The pH of cow milk is 6.5-6.7. The pH of most fruits range between 2.5-4.5. If the acidity of a food mattered to bone health, fruits would be far more devastating than cow's milk. The ONLY thing that acidity matters to in regards to calcium is too tooth health and how much of an acid bath you five your teeth, how frequently, and how much rough chewing or brushing you do before they have a chance to recover from the acid bath.
Orion Antares When discussing the ph in food items what matters is the ph of the item when consumed and processed by the body. Foods can be acidic in their raw form, but alkaline when digested. Many fruits, though acidic, have an alkalizing effect on the body, and dairy, though close to neutral, has an acidifying effect when ingested.
www.trans4mind.com/nutrition/pH.html
So if protein intake doesn't cause osteoporosis, nothing else does? Not sure of your logic there.
I have spent a long time studying Alkaline diet course and discovered an awesome website at Alkali Insider Tactic (google it if you're interested)
Well, reality shows that animal protein does cause bone calcium loss. Just look at the highest dairy and meat consuming countries, they're highest in osteoporosis.
well you less likely that for sure
@aleksandra Correlation does not equal causation. Broad observations like that could have a myriad of other causes/contributing factors besides high animal protein. That is why scientifically controlled studies are performed like the ones Dr. Greger graciously puts into layman's terms for the masses to save time and more easily understand
Btw guys donate to nutritionfactsorg before 2013 is over. Its a tax write off!!! and i cant think of a better organization to put my money towards.
Oh, there are a lot of "doctors" out there that use this protein - calcium loss argument as a basic reason not to eat meat at all? Interesting.
-Truth...do you like meat? Eat it! Its not going anywhere. The facts are that when you consume animal products, you have a choice between menu items. The bottom line is that you can have better health by choosing to eat less animal based products. Don't take my word for it. Muscle loss sounds like nothing until you're in your 60s or 70s. Then, it's really hard to pack on an extra 10 lbs of lean muscle. Look up TMAO as a good reason to not eat a lot of meat. BTW, this is a very funny guy (Dr. Greger) and he really is a medical doctor.
Respect,
Steve
***** I like a little meat now and again. I'm not sure I would want to quit all meat, though like a lot of things I do I don't enjoy most meat that I eat. I eat less eggs and less meat than I ever had. I eat more veggies, juice and plant-based stuff. There are lots of reasons to eat more veggies, one of the main things I see is the drop in quality of processed food and meat ... it is truly disgusting. Dr. Greger is most informative and entertaining. One does have to read between the lines of everything one hears and there is a lot of information that seems to conflict, though in most cases eat more plant-based foods is pretty rock-solid advice.
I will stick with high animal protein cause osteoporosis. You can continue with your assumption. After 20 years we will know the result :)
I guess that's why osteoporosis is so spread around milk-drinkers
Maybe whole 30?
Yeah! I can't eat meat again!!!
Was isotopic calcium the ONLY calcium in the urine? - all you are demonstrating is that the calcium loss is not as fast as some predict.
BTW calcium is only on of the many elements that make up bone structure - you are being to reductionist as high calcium bones can still have high fracture rates.
You are just attempting to confuse the issues.
If a high-protein diet boosts calcium absorption and renal elimination, wouldn't a lack of protein such as in malnourished processed diets of the modern world essentially create a calcium deficiency which will ultimately affect bone resorption to raise serum calcium levels?
And that can't be done without inducing acidosis so it'll lead to muscle wasting, which is what usually happens. Wow, so protein not only protects the muscles but also the bones. Now guess which easily available food source is rich in protein AND calcium? That's right, dairy ofcourse.
very interesting. These are the messages that make me change my verbiage from definitive "this is true" statements to a "many believe" statement when sharing what I've learned.I am not against meat BUT there is a lot to be said about only consuming meats that have been ethically raised! The meat itself may not be an issue but it stands to reason that there are major health ramifications from consuming animals that have been treated with antibiotics or fed a diet that is unnatural to them.
Wait so can someone clarify that isnt biased. 90% of the calcium you eat gets pissed out when whatever your eating makes your blood acidic, but the remaining 10% comes from your body? If so where does it come from, the skeleton or the muscles? And what if what you're eating makes your blood acidic but doesnt provide enough calcium to counteract that acidicy, does the amount of calcium your body provides go up? Pls answer
does this mean acid and alkaline diet theory is rubbish?
Yes. The acid and alkaline diet theory is total rubbish
David Mosier No, you are incorrect. Acid and Alkaline diets (particularly those that indicate reducing or eliminating animal based products to reduce chronic acidosis in the body) are both repeatable and accurate.
***** please provide some legitimate scientific evidence that supports your claim. Every study I have found PROVES it is rubbish, and I have yet to find a study that supports it. Well, what do you have?
So, where does the osteoporosis in dairy consumers come from if it's not from the acid level of animal products?
Dairy is liquid tissue. The protein has sulfur in it just like the animal protein so the same thing happens to your body as if you were consuming a steak.
that's the thing, they are not getting enough calcium to their bones in the first place, because its being absorbed into the blood and flushed out with the urine... not only that, they study says they were giving them doses of calcium.. I suspect if they did not get enough calcium from their diet, the body would start pulling it out of their bones.
ah thank you for explaining!!
Sorry to reply to a comment from 3 months ago but....countries consuming more dairy also have higher obesity rates, which is a *known key risk factor for osteoporosis*. There are a bunch of correlations like this, but currently no scientific evidence causally linking dairy and osteoporosis, all we know is that countries which eat more animal products also tend to get more osteoporosis. Probably because they're more obese and live more sedentary lifestyles.
Homogenization binds calcium together and makes it insouble, so it could explain why we cant absorb it, but remember VIT K, that is needed to send the calcium to the bones
That does it. I'm staying with BACON, Liverwurst and onion sammiches, and hotdogs. Oh, with a steak thrown in when I can afford it. Will you pass me some more butter for my mashed potatoes? Thanks
I'll stay with the Burgers, Steak, Butter, Heavy Cream, BACON, and on and on and on
that's not fair, I want my pee and cabbage now! I'm guessing that the calcium in the leafy greens are cancelling out the excess acid somewhere in the pipes.
you know noting, a simple amino acid test can easily break your conslusion. a lot of people have low amino acid in blood.
the problem with protien is the phosphate which it contains.that breaks the bones. however. daily excerice of hours!the use of muscles can break the phosphate from the bones. sport is the soloution.
Some random guy telling a doctor that he knows nothing...
I eat meat and my bone density is high? Nvm
I am going to qoute myself:
"You have to factor in that many of the countries that consume more protein also have less hours of vitamin d producing sunlight, compared to low protein consuming countries."
Maybe it would be good to make our bodies cycle through different diets as the seasons change.To wake up the different modes, exercise them.
can't believe you get upvotes for such a comment. do you not know the difference between correlation and causation? seriously, how people cling to beliefs in spite of evidence... disheartening really. the only reason you believe higher protein consumption causes it in the first place is because someone proposed the hypothesis and people simply believed it--out of ignorance or politics. hypothesis ->research->conclusions... can't leave out middle step. also helps if you read the research
Vitamin D absorbs Calcium.
De Greger at 300k subs and de berg 1.5M, I wonder why
What I just said was a lie? Ok then.
veganism is still healthier
Why do bodybuilders and powerlifters has much stronger bones than the general population? These people eat more protein that people can imagine, yet their bone strength and structure is way stronger and resilient than regular people. What you do with your body is just as important as what you eat.
tdreamgmail the bones thicken up from the stress and bodybuilder drink whey protein
+tdreamgmail
It's the gear they're on plus exercise improves bone strength.
cat😃😕😘😷👰👸👲👽🎅👭
+Natural Muscle Brit And they tend to eat a lot of meat as well. The whey protein supplements are for them to get their huge dose of protein, a lot are consuming over 200g a day.
Orion Antares
:) yeh i dont drink that shit though
Yup, it's unfortunate that we've been using that argument to hate on meat-eating... we need to find EVIDENCE BASED arguments, not this "dogma" and myths which have circulated the internet.
whats the big deal just eat more calcium people underestimate the body.
"long standing dogma" ??? wtf
In your video"40 yr vegan dies"you quoted a study that said the group of vegatarians who ate a little meat once in a while lived the longest.Okinawa Japan a study found they eat daily 5% or less meat and they live cancer and heart disease free to over 100yrs old.Our western diet we eat over 15% meat daily and we get heart disease, cancer and die early.I started eating a lot of vegatables and a small amt of meat daily, no milk products and I lost 65 lbs.
this is one of the reasons why vegan/vegetarian diets are not for everyone.