As to the kg muzzle energy: I'm almost certain he's talking about kilopondmetres. 1kpm is 9.81J so the prez de quatre-vingt ... soixante quinze kilo d'energie à la bouche would be 735-785J at the muzzle.
My thoughts too. Not necessarily that he confuses them, more probably using kg is more intuitive for non-scientists. Exactly like using kg instead of Newton to describe a force.
It would turn it into a seminar while a French man shouts at everyone for their bad postures and lack of discipline while failing to shoot the target multiple times... But at least it was sexy and classy while that all happened.
@@awmperry i had the chance to do shooting with them at one time, and fuck they are impressive. outside that, we had a guy from the GIGN at an paintball match, he eliminated all of us so easily that was funny lol
Christian Prouteau is 78 years old. He could easily pass as very fit man 20 years younger. Just so impressed with his verbal acuity and intellectual capacity. The French obviously picked the right man for the job.
I was a general's decision, Prouteau,then a lieutenant, had written a report on the possibility of another terrorist action like the Munich Massacre, and the need for specialised units to deal with this threat. Pouteau was an Army Academy grad (like a West Pointer for the US) and was considered "unothodox" for a Gendarmerie young officer, meaning if he was not completely successful, he would have been promoted after more conventional, less imaginative, officers.
@@Rainersherwood you should see what a typical company restaurant looks like in France. We don't mess around with good food. Wherever I work there's usually freshly-baked croissants every morning, and orange juice. I never eat breakfast home.
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 Thank you for the information! Prouteau had great vision of what was needed. And considering that Munich occurred in 1972 his timing was exceptional.
I love how Ian is trying to wrap up, and this legend is like "No, wait, we have not yet discussed the importance of the propellant!" What an amazing guy, every law enforcement agency should listen to this, especially the moral and philosophical parts about how their job is not to mete out justice, but to arrest a suspect. And "Two bullets starts to be a problem, three is a waste of ammunition" is an amazing quote.
The same kind of thinking he puts into philosophy of why the handgun is important is also IMO applicable to general law enforcement training. As just a rudimentary example, and not wishing to paint all police of a given nation with the same brush: In the US in many regions you can become a cop by going through a fairly short length police academy (between something like 6 to 26 weeks based on googling, varies massively based on region), then some months of field training and a year on probation, something like that. In France there's a fairly extensive entrance exam (as far as I'm aware), followed by a year of training, then another year of on the job training. In Finland, becoming a police officer is the equivalent of a getting a bachelor's degree, and takes around 3 years. This isn't to say that "US cops are bad", but it is possible that it being so "quick and easy" to become an officer is related to why the general opinion of the police has been deteriorating in the US for quite some time now. This is to say that I think the immense challenges of law enforcement, being authorized to carry and use deadly weapons while working within normal communities (as opposed to military people who mostly work within military communities) is something that should require a LOT of dedication over a long period of time so that problems can be averted.
@@jubuttib Totally agree. And It's surprising to see how many shots are fired in some of cases in the US. And also how few rounds actually hit the target. Like Amadou Diallo, four cops fired 41 shots, of which 19 hit him. That's pretty far from "two bullets starts to be a problem". If Diallo had been a criminal (and armed) that would still have been an atrocious shooting. Of course not ever Palookaville deputy can be trained to a GIGN level. But every cop should at least be taught that they are not soldiers, judges or executioners.
@@frankkrunk For most cops, higher capacity just means more rounds sprayed into the void when they clamp their eyes shut in terror and pull the trigger until it goes dry. Sympathetic fire is also an issue, which is more likely to be triggered by long strings of fire. You can even see this at the low stress environment of a shooting range: try to fire very slowly and precisely at your target while nearby shooters are magdumping as fast as they can.
@@jubuttib The US used to have much more strict and stringent hiring practices for Police. They were often cited as being racist and sexist. Largely because they had basic and understandable physical requirements as well as legal requirements (no felonies, can't use drugs, etc.) and primarily only "White" men, in a then primarily "White" country could meet them. Once those were done away with the Police forces became what you see today. One of the most obvious examples of the dangers of giving into this rhetoric of "others can't meet your standards so they much be sexist/racist/phobic/whatever" is during the height of the Florida Drug Trade when they relaxed standards nearly all of the subsequent Police hires were quickly corrupted and went to prison for Drug related offenses or were killed as they defended the smugglers and not the people. This is very simplified but also generally accurate as well.
God damn it, it's Cdt Prouteau's shape. What seems to me to be the most important to remember is this philosophy: We are not executioners, our goal is to bring the target in front of its judges. A philosophy that many police services should have. This man is a legend, well done to Ian for being able to do this interview. And as Cdt Prouteau could have said "The liters of sweat in training avoids the liters of blood in combat"
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat." Not at all surprised by the philosophy - this man's life mission was to save as many lives as he could.
@@johntavish8750 Anyway even if the judges are lax (and I am the first furious) A policeman or a gendarme cannot be at the same time: the one who will capture, judge and execute. that's a Stalinist vision of things
Dude. You get to meet the *best* people. This man is *beyond* legendary. Revolver: Because France does their own thing, rather than follow anyone else's trends.
@@iHawke Harry Callahan shoot everyone go and kill anyone who moves (even ears) Quite the opposite of GIGN which kills him only if he cannot do otherwise.
Also at the time, it was very difficult for Prouteau to have adequate support from the Gendarmerie HQ, any foreign weapon would have not been budgeted.
And a super interesting interview too! Being French, I knew some of GIGN history but I learned a lot of new information. Scoring 90/100 at 50m with a 3" to be allowed to carry the 5"1/4 is redefining the word expectation.
@@charlesstoeng9166 Yes, unlike policemen only retired Gendarmes and the "Relations Publiques" officer can give their opinion on news shows (most operations or investigations commanders can give interviews but they must stay with facts and as little as useful).
This man's philosophy should be embedded in every LEO in every country on this world. Law enforcement is not there to dispense immediate justice, but to detain the person and to have them turn up in court for the court to decide. That is the way it should be.
Yes, that's the way it should be! But that level of training costs time & resources. How many LE units have the budgets to come close to that level of training? The poorer the training the more likely the practical policy will be to shoot to stop the assailant quickly with as many rounds needed to put them down (sadly). Skill & finesse comes at a price.
@@JimTempleman For illegal parking you don't need a lot of training, but for a hostage situation it is better to have few very well trained men than a crowd shooting everywhere. As Tsun Tsou said: An armed crowd is as much an army as a pile of bricks is a wall.
Eric Hansen People smart enough to make GOOD peace officers are generally too intelligent to WANT to be part of what police have become in the present USA.
This was one of the best interviews with an former police officier, i have ever seen. Just to mention, that the Austrian Special Police unit COBRA, also formaly known as GEK (Gendarmerie Einsatz Kommando) has used the MR73 for a period of time as their primery sidearm. Merci beaucoup, Christian Prouteau pour vos connaissances approfondies sur le sujet du tir au revolver, de la balistique et de l'importance d'un entraînement intensif !
Now that is a very special guest for sure! Monsieur Prouteau is 77 years old by now, but doesn't look that age. His philosophy makes sense for a police force for sure, but I can also see why it would not be as practical for most military units (unless they are special forces too).
I think we all want to look like Colonel Prouteau when we're 77 years old, damn that man is in shape. Also being french, the GIGN is legendary in our country, hearing THE man that made it all possible, it's quite incredible.
Mr Prouteau's culture of excellence is a testament to the French's soul. Congratulations Ian for this very exclusive interview, and thank you (so much) for building a bridge between our people and cultures. Merci.
@@timewave02012 Today, yes. In '73 when the best pistols had an absolutely atrocious trigger pull and feed reliability was still not 100%, no. You need to appreciate that 48 years ago even the 1911 or Browning Highpower couldn't routinely dump 100 rounds in rapid succession without at least one hickup. For a military force his idea would be dumb as fuck, but GIGN is *not* a military force. They're an anti-terror unit operating among civilians. They are, if worst come to worst, there to sacrifice themselves in exchange for a hostage. Today a Glock 17L with a hand fitted trigger and a precision barrel would do the job just fine. But '73 is certainly not today....
@@timewave02012 The GIGN adopted Ruger mini 14 ? you often see them with exotic stuff but it always seem to serve an operational purpose, not for PR. They even use the army camo, which you never see police using. Although I'm curious to know why they needed a scoped SPAS12
@@alainpichon4395 I think you should inform yourself on the matter before talking non sense and dropping a jugement like it means anything. Laws aren't the word of God and that espionnage story contradicts in no way shape or form what I wrote.
@@moiseman Enlighten me: where is the non sense ? Has the guy been sentenced to jail ? yes. *A fact*, not my own judgement but the one of French justice.
His comment about the philosophy of their primary goal being preservation of life, trying to bring their subjects in for trial rather than merely neutralizing them reminds me of a meeting I was in at work. We had USN and USCG folks in the room, in a rather heated argument about whether a Navy proposed weapons fit met the Coast Guard requirements for the platform in question (USN was lead design for a USCG program, simply because the Navy had more experience and a stronger engineering organization). The question was whether or not the weapon and sight in question could meet the requirements for "warning and disabling fire" - the Navy and Coast Guard had opposing stances, and things had gotten quite heated and bothnsides bunkered up. It eventually hit me (I was on the Navy side) that we had a fundamental difference in outlook, and I cleared up the matter by addressing each side to explain what I suddenly realized about this difference. [Addressing the Navy guys] "To the Coast Guard, when they say they are 'prosecuting a target', they mean they're going to put him in handcuffs and drag him to a judge. They're trying to take the boat equivalent of the SWAT team 'hostage shot'." [Awareness dawns] [To the Coast Guard side of the room] "To the US Navy, a smoldering oil slick *IS* a target that has been 'warned or disabled'." [Awareness dawns]
Great comment. This is another example of how so many issues between people are the results of not understanding each other, rather than thinking what the other's are trying to do being fundamentally wrong.
I love seeing comments like this. I feel like I've been on a mission in my own life/community - and yes, sometimes on UA-cam lol - to bring awareness about this sort of thing. So much more often than we think, the real root cause of our conflicts is really that we do not truly understand the others' perspectives. Like one thing I'll point out, I love how channels like Forgotten Weapons can bring together both gun people and academic-types. Without getting into whether or not these associations are well deserved, there's this perception that academia is and can be by and large quite hostile to firearms. And at least where I'm from, there's this perception that links "gun people" with close-mindedness. I love when channels and people bring very different types together, and allow them to discuss and understand their differences, especially when it leads to people realizing that maybe they're not so different after all.
As a sports coach, I LOVE his ideas about training under stress and removing certain cues, they make complete sense. As a gun guy, his ideas about the use of the revolver are interesting, and make a lot of sense as well. There are far too many "shootouts" in the US involving professionals that can't seem to hit a target. I know...stress, dynamics, there's a LOT of reasons. But they are carrying guns, and even though they hope to never use them, that sort of training, the "First Shot" ideal....that would be worthwhile. To them, AND to the rest of us. Prouteau is a BOSS even at his age, he's a guy that people follow, he just oozes leadership. Great bit of video, of a great man. Well done, Ian!
It must be admitted that it is a relatively barbaric language compared to French, which is much more precise but also much more complicated to learn. Uhhhh yes I'm French hey hey hey (^_^)
The only thing that Ian could have improved on in this excellent interview would have been to attempt to speak in French a little more (especially in thanking Cdt. Prouteau at the end), however badly it may have turned-out for him... As a Brit who lived in France for a while and has visited countless times, the French ALWAYS appreciate you making the effort to speak their language (however badly/falteringly that may be...), and it's seen as a huge show of respect to them under any circumstances that will open many doors, and usually they will break into English and continue the exchange like an old friend, rather than shrugging and walking away with a shake of the head if you just address them in English and expect them to do all the work...
@@Christian-gb8nd and there are no need for more evidence of respect than Ian being known to be such a french stuff fan ^^ so Mr Prouteau was surely well aware of the respect. And looked very happy to be able to share his experience with someone who understand it and was eager to share it on his channel. That's a win / win . Next stop, Ian visiting Satory!
This was AMAZING! It's not often we get to hear directly from such a legend. Thank you! I was over a little SWAT team back in the early 2000s and in charge of their training. Mind you, this was a tiny team of volunteers (in addition to their real work), in a small tourist city so we saw a whole LOT of training but fortunately, not a lot of deployment. When setting up training back then we discussed a few times how the GIGN used .357 Manhurin revolvers. When we were all going through an FBI Basic SWAT course, on shoot-house drills (if our cobbled together sad attempt at such could be called a shoot house) we noticed that during times when we were using handguns, we seldom expended more than one or two shots on a target. A revolver would actually have been fine ... although arguably less "sexy" and therefore no one would try, LOL.
Already being a volunteer in this kind of "part-time" unit is something that I find particularly honorable. But you have to have a lot of training the GIGN gendarmes shoot at least 100 cartridges per day (400 men X 100 cartridges 5 days a week out of 52 weeks in the year) that still makes more than 10 million cartridges per year for the group (10,400,000 exactly) you have to have the budget.
@@olivierpuyou3621 - You are so right. It takes a huge budget to keep even a little unit trained (we got in trouble all the time for our budget and it wasn't much). GIGN are the best of the best of the very best, though. They did (do) training right.
I read a book by the second in command. They had less people at the beginning but already problem of budget for shooting practice 😂 This is why GIGN reloaded their cartridges to spend less money.
@@khaelamensha3624 - The bean counters who hold the purse strings (or "budget goblins") are forever the bane of those doing the real work. Our man in that position was so cheap that when I suggested we needed to issue everyone gas masks due to all the hazardous material shipping through town, his honest response was that when the first responders stopped answering and the next team showed up and saw them down, they'd know something was wrong. So, no need to spend a few bucks on gas masks, then. Never mind his opinion on ammo, overtime, buying me a tac-vest, ...
I would have zero complaints if he were a regular on this channel. He was absolutely fascinating, and with all the tacticool BS on UA-cam it was a real treat to hear from someone who truly has been there and done that.
This is a fantastic look into the philosophy and dedication necessary for periods of years in order for elite operators to perform where good guys and bad guys are mixed together. It is good to hear the reasons behind several instances of the stereotype "The French copy no-one..." (tactical revolver, non-rotating targets, first-shot drill) where the logic is undeniable, and explained by the originator. Dismissing that sort of thing as stubborn contrarianism is doing a great disservice to gentlemen such as Monsieur Prouteau. Thanks, Ian, this is an incredible interview for you to have bagged!
In the seventies (post Munich Massacre) there were very few units to copy, basically, only the SAS Pagoda Troop, the Israeli units were not open to foreigners. Plus GIGN had very little support from the high ups in the Gendarmerie, little budget unitl the Loyada operation. So Prouteau and some of his men had to be creative, like Wegener with GSG9 (of course the budget was different). And the Police was waiting to see the unit fail so they could take its place.
Agreed. The one thing I wish he (or someone else) would update (and admittedly probably has already) is how to enforce that same sort of discipline, consideration and frankly philosophy, while using a weapon that's undeniably more effective in practice, like a modern, immensely reliable pistol, equipped with a red dot. As a weapon for making accurate hits in tough conditions it is almost impossible to argue that a revolver is better these days, but how do you make sure you instill that same SENSE of using the weapon without falling into the trap of it being "too easy" with the modern stuff... To me at least the ideal would be the mentality that you need to use a revolver like that effectively, but with an even more effective gun, and in the end you _have to_ practice with the gun you're going to be using...
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 I was thinking more doctrinally and in terms of how to train to achieve the same philosophical goals, rather than a specific weapon. =)
I have now watched this a 2nd time, and am (re)struck by M. Prouteau's point that the police are to bring the bad guy(s) to justice, not to simply mete out "intermediate" justice. That is a superb philosophy, and requires the highest level of professional capability and humility.
French viewer here. Thanks a lot for this interview, the man and the group are legends ! I think now you can get brand new MR73s in the USA, such an iconic weapon. 🇫🇷 Again thanks to you and Monsieur Prouteau for this interview.
Thank you for a great interview. Monsieur Prouteau is the most impressive interviewee I have seen on your channel. The mental and professional rigour that he applied to his work, shine through in his words. Empirical data will always override sales talk and acquired habits. The routine of carrying out marksmanship training at the end of the working day makes perfect sense to me. I have always trained shooters in basic safety on the basis that: you have to be safe whatever the conditions. Genuine high level marksmanship training can only be conducted on the same rigorous basis. The old saying about making the training harder than the real thing exists for a reason.
That was an amazing interview. It is for many of the reasons he mentioned, that I have gone back to carrying revolvers. I feel I am much more effective mentally knowing that I have to make every shot count. In addition to having complete confidence in my weapon, in any position and from direct contact (problematic with pistols) out to 50 yards.
A fantastic interview! It's clear with everything he says that he's put so much thought into every component of the program - ways to make the training less predictable and more realistic and challenging in that way, the psychology of a small clip and the reality of firing a gun at a person, the specifics of ammunition types and sustained accuracy, and even usage considerations like drawing from the holster smoothly. Truly an expert take on security, he must have done great things with GIGN.
Merci Ian pour cette video formidable! As a German, living in Switzerland I know how hard it can be learning a foreign language especially french! Keep on learning and putting out this great videos we all can learn so much from! Encore une fois merci beaucoup! Amitiés J
Listening to Monsieur speak, I just remember Ian saying: "Nobody copied the French and the French copied no one." Respect, absolutely love the French. Sorry LindyBeige x) Just listening to the language and understanding it partly makes my heart glow with joy, such a lovely and complicated culture.
Thank you! And contrary to some belief, firearms were a great part in our culture, but unfortunately, it's lost for most of the french people now. We made a lot of "firsts" in the firearms history and we still have good manufacturers. It's a shame that, not only gun culture has mostly disappeared, but that our armed forces don't use french guns anymore...
I loved hearing him talk about the 4" S&W 19. My dad was a British police firearms officer throughout the 80s and 90s. For many years that was his issue sidearm. When they switched to Glocks in the early 90s, Dad bought his S&W 19 from the dealer they traded them to. It was always my favourite of his pistols to fire.
@@dmytro732 No. This was back when a civilian could own a handgun in Britain. My dad had a Firearms Certificate to own a handgun and arranged to purchase the revolver that had been his issued pistol. In 1997 or 1998 handguns became prohibited firearms in Britain and they had to be surrendered to the local police force, for them to destroy.
@@Barbaroossa At the same time, handguns are the firearm most used in crimes, so makes sense to take them out of circulation. And I suspect that the prohibition does not apply to those active police officers who need them (undercover work, living with death threats etc.).
@@lavrentivs9891 yes, but mostly illegally held handguns. So whilst legal civilian ownership of handguns outside Northern Ireland has ceased (with no doubt a few exceptions as the mechanism exists to grant s5 status) the amount of handgun crime has not abated and indeed has increased. It was a kneejerk political reaction to a tragedy caused by a failing in the licensing system.
Ian i do not have enough thumbs to put up to qualify that interview. They never was such a deep dive interview of Mr Prouteau here on TV (or i missed it) Thank you for that. Hats off to the translator who's help made it seamless. The explanation about how the MR73 is more a weapon system with that strong relation beetween barrel length, projectile and burnning speed of the powder than just a fancy gun to achieve a 1st effective round on target every single time, not to harm or kill but to bring criminals to justice is a gem!
Best interview on any gun channel hands down. Hearing you talk to this man of honor made me feel proud, if tangentially, to be part of the gun community.
Legendary tier interview. Amazing how a .357 mag revolver was like this unit’s katana- more than a weapon and not just a symbol, an embodiment of the group’s warrior philosophy.
Norma heavy charged 158s they used also. Bob Petersen were one of the first to hunt very big game with his ,357 , Polarbear was the largest one. And in the shadows decade befire this, Phillip B Sharpe and Elmer Keith behind development and standarisation of the fine ,357. If one want most penetration a 180 grain ,like a Swirt Aframe or Keith style is fine.
Prouteau was frequently in contact with Danny Coulson; FBI HRT creator and first commander. In Coulson's book, he describes Prouteau as a friend, sharing the same values.
Wow. Just wow. However, this brought back some memories. I was a police officer in Oxford, MS in the late '80s and we had an intern from the University whose father was the Captain over Memphis PD's TACT Team. He gave us a bunch of "home videos" of them doing training. The videos showed them using 1911s of some sort and the were jamming as they did any sort of dynamic movement. Because of that, they went to S&W 25-5 revolvers in .45LC as sidearms. They had to take a shot, it 100% had to work. They were jot military and they did not do "volume of fire." And they didn't have to spin the spinner.
What a great interview...thank you Ian and thank Prouteau. Exelence brought to it best...sadly just a revolver remains now....good I have one and train enough to appreciate it.
I have never heard of this pistol until now. Can't wait to learn more. "A gun is no substitute for courage"... damn... Ian does it again!!! Also, I just received my forgotten weapons coffee mug... it looks great... support the channels you love!!!
You can find several videos on UA-cam about the Mr73 It was conceived to fire full charged. 357 cartridges, 100 rounds a day for several years and not losing its precision.
Fantastic stuff! I am a big fan of this man and the MR revolvers. He is clearly very versed in the science of shooting, and I wish you would've asked him about dry firing drills, and his opinions. I have read a lot about the Manurhin revolvers (and Mr. Prouteau), but seeing him in an interview makes me understand how clever he really is. Thanks for posting this, a UA-cam high mark!
Same! Please, please, if you ever get a chance to have him on again Ian, please ask him to talk more about his dry firing drills so we can learn more from his wisdom! Even if we don't end up agreeing on some fundamental principles, ANYONE that ever considers a firearm for the protection of self and loved ones would benefits from hearing this wonderful man's thoughts and practical tips! Forgotten Weapons is not a channel dedicated to this, and has no obligation to this end... But I do believe we really need channels doing more content like this. I'll say as an American, where politics aside it is a known fact that guns are in major proliferation, the proportionate proliferation of high quality discussion of both practical and philosophical aspects of firearm usage is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Firearms are a TREMENDOUS responsibility to bear, and need to be treated and discussed as such. Nothing is more effective for protection, but that efficacy also creates such grave risks to the bearer and loved ones around that it should NOT be taken lightly. No matter what, thanks for having this master of the craft on the channel, Ian et al!
Normal SWAT teams: "You're coming with us dead or alive... but probably dead!" GIGN: "We'll turn you into Jesus rather than let you die! We said: YOU COMMIN' WITH US!" Mr Prouteau is an absolute legend, and it was a real pleasure to hear the fantastic tales behind both GIGN and the MR73. That confidence shot really puts things into perspective. As a former artillery man who addresses shells "To whom this may concern" that was a quite different take on things. I really like the "You're not certified to shoot in a hostage situation until you can shoot at your own buddy without sweating it"-philosophy....
Such a well spoken and thoughtful man. His ideas of justice and the role of the GIGN is truly admirable - If more police forces worked under similar overarching philosophy we wouldn't have movements like ACAB happening. Thanks, Ian, for giving such an insightful interview.
What an interesting interview.I have quite an interest in French Cold War stuff,especially when it comes to their tanks like AMX-30,excellent aircraft like Mirage series and light attack heli like Gazelles but their firearms are also great.It's great to see and hear an explanation why GIGN chose revolvers for their sidearms and its application to real life situations. Thank you so much for this.
I had the chance to have him as a guest in my school a few weeks ago. He gave us a fascinating insight on the GIGN and more importantly on my future job
Brilliant interview! His comments about the way revolver demands “intention” in shooting resonates with me, particularly these days, when so many “experts” are counseling us to go about our day-to-day lives equipped to face off with a squad of armed thugs.
Intention is great and all, but he's speaking from the point of view of a squad of elite special forces units bringing in suspects, not your average Joe being mugged by a group of guys.
@@stevenbobbybills He’s speaking from the perspective of someone who recognizes that shooting people has consequences. And that Walking Dead is a work of fiction.
@@Vivi2372 that training that they actually have, as part of a unit, in a country with an entirely different criminal culture from the United States. Once again, how many ordinary citizens are going to be fine after being jumped on their own with nothing but a revolver? Hell, even normal police officers? The majority aren't GIGN material and have barely any trigger time. A semi-auto isn't going to win a fight for you, but you've got a far better chance, hence why most police forces on the planet have switched away and the MR 73 is ceremonial in current use.
@@fullmetalpenguin ...what on Earth does The Walking Dead have to do with anything? I didn't say anything about having to fight off a horde of undead...
I'm a big believer in "the more the merrier" for compact semiautos as the rounds themselves are weaker than what this guy is shooting out of his Manhurin. I could carry a 5 round .357 but those are quite unpleasant to shoot. I'll take a 10 round 9mm any day. Also, as has been stated, this is someone with thousands of hours of training. Joe from Home Depot that has put two boxes of 9mm through his Glock 26 over the past year isn't going to be able to make each shot count unless it is point blank shooting. And don't get me started on boar and bear defense...
Fascinant!! Vraiment impressionant d'entendre et comprendre une philosphie dont trop peu de gens sont au courant et qui est admirable, et devrait etre plus repandu .... Merci pour ce beau cadeau, Ian!
THANK YOU so much for using subtitles and not a voice over. French is my primary language so it is great to hear both the original voices. And great content!
A fantastic interview. It's always a pleasure to hear from people with the experience and expertise as Mr Prouteau. His poised and incredibly detailed answers to your questions were a joy to listen to and must have been a dream as the interviewer.
Amazing interview, I could've watched another hour hearing this French Hero's wisdom. He's the team leader you dream of having because he cares about human life, not instant justice.
This training regimen had vast similarities to my training in the government of Canada. I know that we collaborated with the French. My service sidearm was 5/14 S&W 38 sp + P. I loved the mechanical double action feel, and could push tacks all day at 25 meters. Very interesting interview here!
Sir, I enjoyed that so much. I am a Francophile, retraite et resident en France, still a military historian, a collector and shooter of of my M&P S&W revolvers and of course my MR 73 Manurhin 5.25” revolver. From my research not only is each GIGN trooper who when qualifies presented with a Manurhin revolver, these models are still actively utilized along with their Sig and Glock semi autos, accuracy is still a essential requirement. However I believe the original GIGN principle to not shoot to kill but shoot to nullify the threat is now no longer an operational fact. Since the terrorist attacks in Paris in 2015 (and the suicide bomber issue) snipers are trained to aim for an instant kill shot. Truly an excellent interview, bon courage mon ami.
In the two recent non-terrorist-suspect-holed-in-the-mountains operations, GIGN operators did everything to keep them alive even when they had to shoot one. Of course the Kouachi brothers took many bullets to be neutralized, different situations, different principles.
As a mere human i would feel super humbled to even be in the same room as this man let alone speak with him and ask him questions, holy cow! Really great interview Ian and fantastic, in-depth responses from Christian Prouteau himself. What an unexpected and super interesting video!
One could really see the mutual respect, that both of these men have for each other. I would have loved though, if they had shown the cased revolver, too. I'm proud, to have a 5 1/4" barrelled MR73 myself!
First, we learn small arms and the love of the M1 carbine with Ken Hackathorn, then a mini masterclass on revolver marksmanship with Christian Prouteau these topics are getting way better
I love the fact how casual this whole meeting looks like. Like you can get an opportunity to interview the person who is behind THE GIGN every now and then. No, this is fantastic footage and it's amazing that you were able to record it and share it with us. The philosophy that this man have is amazing and right. Thank you Ian. Outstanding.
Wow. Incredible. I'd love to hear some more of his operations if possible. I've watched the movie ' L' Assault'' and was impressed, but the philosophy behind it all is incredible!
Wow Ian, you have outdone yourself once again! What an amazing interview -- clearly your exploits have commanded a high level of respect to get this kind of access. It's also so refreshing to hear a law enforcement official talk about the immense responsibility inherent in arming police forces -- that taking a life is a huge decision and should always be seen as a last resort no matter the situation. That the idea of equipping the GIGN with this revolver wasn't just about giving them a great weapon, but about training them to become better, smarter, and more professional. That totally flips the script on the current trend in the US, where over militarizing our police forces by equipping them with assault rifles, humvees, armored cars, and insane body armor is becoming the norm, when they SHOULD be focused on 1) serving their communities 2) non-violent conflict resolution (aka not shooting at the first sign of trouble), and 3) not being racist (that's a whole other issue). Great interview Ian!
That note about using slow burning powders in revolvers is quite interesting. And it seems to be generally true that lower pressure are better for accuracy (as with sporting airguns vs firearms).
@@villev8844 The case capacity of a 9x19 is approximately 1/2 of a .357 magnum. So it can hold much less powder and needs faster burning stuff to get the needed velocity. Btw. 9 mm has lower pressures than .357 mag.
@@sorenlilienthal1368 Standard 9mm is 35,000 psi, 357mag also 35,000 psi. 9mm+P is 38,500 psi. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge...Also slow burning powders don't work very well in low temps such as 30 degrees or colder.
At the time, reloads for 9x19 mm and .38 special used BA 10 or BA 9 powders (cylinder shaped grains), full loads for .357 and .44 magnum used S3 (spherical shape); the number gives you the speed of burning.
WOW Ian, this was a GREAT guest. By listening to Proteau and his philosophy makes you think about a few things. This was a great interview. THANK YOU!!!
Thank you to M. Prouteau for sharing his insights, and thank you Ian for bringing them to us! There are many people in positions of power who would do well to heed his words on the weilding of such power.
@@ecarlate "I trust that the ceramic trauma plate I'm wearing will stop a .357 Magnum round traveling at four-hundred and ninety meters per second. I trust myself not to move, not to flinch. I trust my team mates and they trust me." - Julien "Rook" Nizan.
Interview particulièrement intéressante dont on retrouve l'esprit et les précisions dans le dernier livre de C. Prouteau sur le GIGN : Nous étions les premiers. Thank you forgotten weapons
Outstanding interview, Ian!! How rare it is to be able to sit down and really get into the mindset of someone so legendary in this field. Thoroughly enjoyed hearing of the philosophy behind the selection and use of the MR-73. I would love to hear his thoughts on the new Beretta imported MR-73.
Shouldn't be much different from those on the revolver, he helped to create. There had been a time, when a MR-73 had Millet sights, to reduce costs. But the current model has in house sights, again.
What an incredible opportunity. There is nothing like the modest, informed demeanor of a true expert. Spend an hour on the range with him, and I bet next year's desert brutality the MR73 will lead you to glory!
Awesome interview long time revolver shooter and handgun hunter here, I also found 5 inch barrel to shoot just as accruate as longer barrels and i shoot out to 200 yards though I shoot model 27 or 29 mostly. It took me many many thousands of round before I felt comfortable shooting a handgun at living breathing animals and as result I have always has success and one shot kills. Top ter handgun marksmanship is a skill that you will quickly loose if not in constant practice atleast weekly if not daily.
Most informative and inspiring interview about hand gun marksmanship I ever listened to. Prouteau explains professionalism requires dedication, practice and the necessity to constantly challenge oneself. It is profound the way GIGN psychologically challenge themselves. I now see revolvers and semi autos in a different light, whereby double action can facilitate advantages for the shooter.
Man this interview was awesome! Id love to have one of the MR-73 revolers. This man's philosophy on what true skill is has absolutely bestowed honor and greatness to what it means to shoot a revolver.
With all due respect to all the Brutality competitors out there, I think that would be a prime example of 'A Thoroughbred In A Donkey Race', and Cdt. Prouteau would be curling his lip in Gallic disdain before the first shot was fired...
As to the kg muzzle energy: I'm almost certain he's talking about kilopondmetres. 1kpm is 9.81J so the prez de quatre-vingt ... soixante quinze kilo d'energie à la bouche would be 735-785J at the muzzle.
il a confondu les joules avec les newtons! Du moins je le pense! bien à vous!
pardons vous avez raison!
My thoughts too. Not necessarily that he confuses them, more probably using kg is more intuitive for non-scientists. Exactly like using kg instead of Newton to describe a force.
I guess you meant kilogram not kilopound?
Well 1973, the use of official units may not have been as common as now.
For some people, the phrase “special guest” just doesn’t quite cut it. This is fascinating stuff!
Imagine getting him to bring a team to Desert Brutality…
It would turn it into a seminar while a French man shouts at everyone for their bad postures and lack of discipline while failing to shoot the target multiple times...
But at least it was sexy and classy while that all happened.
Il est formidable, ce mec.
Legendary.
*Beyond* legendary.
@@awmperry i had the chance to do shooting with them at one time, and fuck they are impressive.
outside that, we had a guy from the GIGN at an paintball match, he eliminated all of us so easily that was funny lol
Christian Prouteau is 78 years old. He could easily pass as very fit man 20 years younger. Just so impressed with his verbal acuity and intellectual capacity. The French obviously picked the right man for the job.
I was a general's decision, Prouteau,then a lieutenant, had written a report on the possibility of another terrorist action like the Munich Massacre, and the need for specialised units to deal with this threat. Pouteau was an Army Academy grad (like a West Pointer for the US) and was considered "unothodox" for a Gendarmerie young officer, meaning if he was not completely successful, he would have been promoted after more conventional, less imaginative, officers.
I had to verify because I didn't believe it. He's 11 days older than my dad, and he looks younger than my older brother.
French living is graceful on the body. My french side family always ages more gracefully.
@@Rainersherwood you should see what a typical company restaurant looks like in France. We don't mess around with good food. Wherever I work there's usually freshly-baked croissants every morning, and orange juice. I never eat breakfast home.
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 Thank you for the information! Prouteau had great vision of what was needed. And considering that Munich occurred in 1972 his timing was exceptional.
Best statement in this whole interview...
"The firearm is no substitute for courage"
The one secret trick that gun stores hate...
I love how Ian is trying to wrap up, and this legend is like "No, wait, we have not yet discussed the importance of the propellant!"
What an amazing guy, every law enforcement agency should listen to this, especially the moral and philosophical parts about how their job is not to mete out justice, but to arrest a suspect. And "Two bullets starts to be a problem, three is a waste of ammunition" is an amazing quote.
The same kind of thinking he puts into philosophy of why the handgun is important is also IMO applicable to general law enforcement training. As just a rudimentary example, and not wishing to paint all police of a given nation with the same brush: In the US in many regions you can become a cop by going through a fairly short length police academy (between something like 6 to 26 weeks based on googling, varies massively based on region), then some months of field training and a year on probation, something like that. In France there's a fairly extensive entrance exam (as far as I'm aware), followed by a year of training, then another year of on the job training. In Finland, becoming a police officer is the equivalent of a getting a bachelor's degree, and takes around 3 years. This isn't to say that "US cops are bad", but it is possible that it being so "quick and easy" to become an officer is related to why the general opinion of the police has been deteriorating in the US for quite some time now.
This is to say that I think the immense challenges of law enforcement, being authorized to carry and use deadly weapons while working within normal communities (as opposed to military people who mostly work within military communities) is something that should require a LOT of dedication over a long period of time so that problems can be averted.
@@jubuttib Totally agree. And It's surprising to see how many shots are fired in some of cases in the US. And also how few rounds actually hit the target. Like Amadou Diallo, four cops fired 41 shots, of which 19 hit him. That's pretty far from "two bullets starts to be a problem". If Diallo had been a criminal (and armed) that would still have been an atrocious shooting.
Of course not ever Palookaville deputy can be trained to a GIGN level. But every cop should at least be taught that they are not soldiers, judges or executioners.
@@frankkrunk For most cops, higher capacity just means more rounds sprayed into the void when they clamp their eyes shut in terror and pull the trigger until it goes dry. Sympathetic fire is also an issue, which is more likely to be triggered by long strings of fire. You can even see this at the low stress environment of a shooting range: try to fire very slowly and precisely at your target while nearby shooters are magdumping as fast as they can.
It's the complete opposite of "spray and pray".
@@jubuttib The US used to have much more strict and stringent hiring practices for Police. They were often cited as being racist and sexist. Largely because they had basic and understandable physical requirements as well as legal requirements (no felonies, can't use drugs, etc.) and primarily only "White" men, in a then primarily "White" country could meet them. Once those were done away with the Police forces became what you see today. One of the most obvious examples of the dangers of giving into this rhetoric of "others can't meet your standards so they much be sexist/racist/phobic/whatever" is during the height of the Florida Drug Trade when they relaxed standards nearly all of the subsequent Police hires were quickly corrupted and went to prison for Drug related offenses or were killed as they defended the smugglers and not the people. This is very simplified but also generally accurate as well.
God damn it, it's Cdt Prouteau's shape.
What seems to me to be the most important to remember is this philosophy: We are not executioners, our goal is to bring the target in front of its judges.
A philosophy that many police services should have.
This man is a legend, well done to Ian for being able to do this interview.
And as Cdt Prouteau could have said "The liters of sweat in training avoids the liters of blood in combat"
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat."
Not at all surprised by the philosophy - this man's life mission was to save as many lives as he could.
@@lairdcummings9092 Absolutely but this is the French version ^^
Exept in France, criminals walk, the judges are liberal corrupted traitors. I'd rather they were shot on scene.
@@olivierpuyou3621 but of course. Because la Belle France does things her own way.
@@johntavish8750 Anyway even if the judges are lax (and I am the first furious) A policeman or a gendarme cannot be at the same time: the one who will capture, judge and execute. that's a Stalinist vision of things
Dude.
You get to meet the *best* people. This man is *beyond* legendary.
Revolver: Because France does their own thing, rather than follow anyone else's trends.
@@iHawke Harry Callahan shoot everyone go and kill anyone who moves (even ears)
Quite the opposite of GIGN which kills him only if he cannot do otherwise.
The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French.
@@olivierpuyou3621 ua-cam.com/video/wwq8vnGrrOs/v-deo.html
@@stevailo Thankfully!
Also at the time, it was very difficult for Prouteau to have adequate support from the Gendarmerie HQ, any foreign weapon would have not been budgeted.
I can't believe Ian managed to get C. Prouteau as a guest! It shows how FW achieved credibility and notoriety through hard work and dedication.
100%
And a super interesting interview too! Being French, I knew some of GIGN history but I learned a lot of new information. Scoring 90/100 at 50m with a 3" to be allowed to carry the 5"1/4 is redefining the word expectation.
I believe no French U Tuber has ever done such interview on weapons and training with Prouteau, at least here is none on social media.
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 I agree, or at least I haven't seen any either.
But he is often on CNews on other topics
@@charlesstoeng9166 Yes, unlike policemen only retired Gendarmes and the "Relations Publiques" officer can give their opinion on news shows (most operations or investigations commanders can give interviews but they must stay with facts and as little as useful).
Hats off to Ian and his influence in the gun world -this takes Surprise-Guest to the next level and beyond...
Proteau himself- this is incredible, Ian!
Prouteau. Not Proteau.
This man's philosophy should be embedded in every LEO in every country on this world. Law enforcement is not there to dispense immediate justice, but to detain the person and to have them turn up in court for the court to decide. That is the way it should be.
Yes, that's the way it should be!
But that level of training costs time & resources.
How many LE units have the budgets to come close to that level of training?
The poorer the training the more likely the practical policy will be to shoot to stop the assailant quickly with as many rounds needed to put them down (sadly).
Skill & finesse comes at a price.
@@JimTempleman For illegal parking you don't need a lot of training, but for a hostage situation it is better to have few very well trained men than a crowd shooting everywhere.
As Tsun Tsou said: An armed crowd is as much an army as a pile of bricks is a wall.
@@JimTempleman Then shortly fire the ones who can't handle the training, use their salaries to hire people that can.
Eric Hansen
People smart enough to make GOOD peace officers are generally too intelligent to WANT to be part of what police have become in the present USA.
@@Bert2368 I'll agree with that.
This was one of the best interviews with an former police officier, i have ever seen. Just to mention, that the Austrian Special Police unit COBRA, also formaly known as GEK (Gendarmerie Einsatz Kommando) has used the MR73 for a period of time as their primery sidearm. Merci beaucoup, Christian Prouteau pour vos connaissances approfondies sur le sujet du tir au revolver, de la balistique et de l'importance d'un entraînement intensif !
Now that is a very special guest for sure!
Monsieur Prouteau is 77 years old by now, but doesn't look that age.
His philosophy makes sense for a police force for sure, but I can also see why it would not be as practical for most military units (unless they are special forces too).
A fit and young 50, maybe.
I’m 57 and he looks 10 years younger than me bravo Monsieur Prouteau 👍
Yeah, I was about to make a similar comment. His voice does sound about right for that age, but man he looks nothing like 77.
@@HeliophobicRiverman Very rough voice, aye, but looks younger.
@@HereticalKitsune you could easily write that off with smoking Frenchman stereotype. Would have put money the dude was mid 50s
I think we all want to look like Colonel Prouteau when we're 77 years old, damn that man is in shape. Also being french, the GIGN is legendary in our country, hearing THE man that made it all possible, it's quite incredible.
Helll, I look like Prouteau
Mind you, I'm just 44, so I think I got the edge on him 🤣
Mr Prouteau's culture of excellence is a testament to the French's soul.
Congratulations Ian for this very exclusive interview, and thank you (so much) for building a bridge between our people and cultures. Merci.
No offense to Larry and Ashley, but this is probably the coolest interview you've done so far.
@@timewave02012 never thought I would see someone calling Christian Prouteau a fudd. The internet truly is an amazing place...
@@KenworthW900HG I’ve been on the internet long enough to expect a keyboard warrior to pop out any minute, and I’m not disappointed this time.
@@timewave02012 Today, yes. In '73 when the best pistols had an absolutely atrocious trigger pull and feed reliability was still not 100%, no. You need to appreciate that 48 years ago even the 1911 or Browning Highpower couldn't routinely dump 100 rounds in rapid succession without at least one hickup. For a military force his idea would be dumb as fuck, but GIGN is *not* a military force. They're an anti-terror unit operating among civilians. They are, if worst come to worst, there to sacrifice themselves in exchange for a hostage. Today a Glock 17L with a hand fitted trigger and a precision barrel would do the job just fine. But '73 is certainly not today....
@@timewave02012 The GIGN adopted Ruger mini 14 ? you often see them with exotic stuff but it always seem to serve an operational purpose, not for PR. They even use the army camo, which you never see police using.
Although I'm curious to know why they needed a scoped SPAS12
Christian Prouteau is an exceptional man, he's as kind and compassionate as he's brave and that says a lot.
The guy was prosecuted, charged and found guilty. 15 months jail term. 1991.
@@alainpichon4395 And?
@@moiseman And not exactly the knight in a shinny white armor.
@@alainpichon4395 I think you should inform yourself on the matter before talking non sense and dropping a jugement like it means anything. Laws aren't the word of God and that espionnage story contradicts in no way shape or form what I wrote.
@@moiseman Enlighten me: where is the non sense ? Has the guy been sentenced to jail ? yes. *A fact*, not my own judgement but the one of French justice.
His comment about the philosophy of their primary goal being preservation of life, trying to bring their subjects in for trial rather than merely neutralizing them reminds me of a meeting I was in at work.
We had USN and USCG folks in the room, in a rather heated argument about whether a Navy proposed weapons fit met the Coast Guard requirements for the platform in question (USN was lead design for a USCG program, simply because the Navy had more experience and a stronger engineering organization). The question was whether or not the weapon and sight in question could meet the requirements for "warning and disabling fire" - the Navy and Coast Guard had opposing stances, and things had gotten quite heated and bothnsides bunkered up.
It eventually hit me (I was on the Navy side) that we had a fundamental difference in outlook, and I cleared up the matter by addressing each side to explain what I suddenly realized about this difference.
[Addressing the Navy guys]
"To the Coast Guard, when they say they are 'prosecuting a target', they mean they're going to put him in handcuffs and drag him to a judge. They're trying to take the boat equivalent of the SWAT team 'hostage shot'."
[Awareness dawns]
[To the Coast Guard side of the room]
"To the US Navy, a smoldering oil slick *IS* a target that has been 'warned or disabled'."
[Awareness dawns]
Great comment. This is another example of how so many issues between people are the results of not understanding each other, rather than thinking what the other's are trying to do being fundamentally wrong.
Excellent story.
@@jubuttib There's something wrong with you morally and philosophically if you believe "warned or disabled" equals a smoldering oil slick.
@@otm646 I think that was a bit of hyperbole...
I love seeing comments like this. I feel like I've been on a mission in my own life/community - and yes, sometimes on UA-cam lol - to bring awareness about this sort of thing. So much more often than we think, the real root cause of our conflicts is really that we do not truly understand the others' perspectives.
Like one thing I'll point out, I love how channels like Forgotten Weapons can bring together both gun people and academic-types. Without getting into whether or not these associations are well deserved, there's this perception that academia is and can be by and large quite hostile to firearms. And at least where I'm from, there's this perception that links "gun people" with close-mindedness.
I love when channels and people bring very different types together, and allow them to discuss and understand their differences, especially when it leads to people realizing that maybe they're not so different after all.
As a sports coach, I LOVE his ideas about training under stress and removing certain cues, they make complete sense. As a gun guy, his ideas about the use of the revolver are interesting, and make a lot of sense as well. There are far too many "shootouts" in the US involving professionals that can't seem to hit a target. I know...stress, dynamics, there's a LOT of reasons. But they are carrying guns, and even though they hope to never use them, that sort of training, the "First Shot" ideal....that would be worthwhile. To them, AND to the rest of us.
Prouteau is a BOSS even at his age, he's a guy that people follow, he just oozes leadership. Great bit of video, of a great man. Well done, Ian!
Knowing the how the French deal with the English language, I feel his effort at the end shows a lot respect towards Ian.
It must be admitted that it is a relatively barbaric language compared to French, which is much more precise but also much more complicated to learn.
Uhhhh yes I'm French hey hey hey (^_^)
The only thing that Ian could have improved on in this excellent interview would have been to attempt to speak in French a little more (especially in thanking Cdt. Prouteau at the end), however badly it may have turned-out for him...
As a Brit who lived in France for a while and has visited countless times, the French ALWAYS appreciate you making the effort to speak their language (however badly/falteringly that may be...), and it's seen as a huge show of respect to them under any circumstances that will open many doors, and usually they will break into English and continue the exchange like an old friend, rather than shrugging and walking away with a shake of the head if you just address them in English and expect them to do all the work...
@@therogers4432 Maybe Ian wasn't confortable enough to do it with such a Legendary Man :)
I think that both of them speaking there own language was the best way. They both were able to be accurate to express they mind.
@@Christian-gb8nd and there are no need for more evidence of respect than Ian being known to be such a french stuff fan ^^ so Mr Prouteau was surely well aware of the respect. And looked very happy to be able to share his experience with someone who understand it and was eager to share it on his channel. That's a win / win .
Next stop, Ian visiting Satory!
This was AMAZING! It's not often we get to hear directly from such a legend. Thank you!
I was over a little SWAT team back in the early 2000s and in charge of their training. Mind you, this was a tiny team of volunteers (in addition to their real work), in a small tourist city so we saw a whole LOT of training but fortunately, not a lot of deployment. When setting up training back then we discussed a few times how the GIGN used .357 Manhurin revolvers. When we were all going through an FBI Basic SWAT course, on shoot-house drills (if our cobbled together sad attempt at such could be called a shoot house) we noticed that during times when we were using handguns, we seldom expended more than one or two shots on a target. A revolver would actually have been fine ... although arguably less "sexy" and therefore no one would try, LOL.
Already being a volunteer in this kind of "part-time" unit is something that I find particularly honorable.
But you have to have a lot of training the GIGN gendarmes shoot at least 100 cartridges per day (400 men X 100 cartridges 5 days a week out of 52 weeks in the year) that still makes more than 10 million cartridges per year for the group (10,400,000 exactly) you have to have the budget.
@@olivierpuyou3621 - You are so right. It takes a huge budget to keep even a little unit trained (we got in trouble all the time for our budget and it wasn't much).
GIGN are the best of the best of the very best, though. They did (do) training right.
@@CeltKnight Money, the lifeblood of all wars (and police services) ^^
I read a book by the second in command. They had less people at the beginning but already problem of budget for shooting practice 😂 This is why GIGN reloaded their cartridges to spend less money.
@@khaelamensha3624 - The bean counters who hold the purse strings (or "budget goblins") are forever the bane of those doing the real work. Our man in that position was so cheap that when I suggested we needed to issue everyone gas masks due to all the hazardous material shipping through town, his honest response was that when the first responders stopped answering and the next team showed up and saw them down, they'd know something was wrong. So, no need to spend a few bucks on gas masks, then. Never mind his opinion on ammo, overtime, buying me a tac-vest, ...
I would have zero complaints if he were a regular on this channel. He was absolutely fascinating, and with all the tacticool BS on UA-cam it was a real treat to hear from someone who truly has been there and done that.
That was a FANTASTIC interview. His philosophies are so well thought out and meaningful. There are lessons to be learned here.
This is a fantastic look into the philosophy and dedication necessary for periods of years in order for elite operators to perform where good guys and bad guys are mixed together. It is good to hear the reasons behind several instances of the stereotype "The French copy no-one..." (tactical revolver, non-rotating targets, first-shot drill) where the logic is undeniable, and explained by the originator. Dismissing that sort of thing as stubborn contrarianism is doing a great disservice to gentlemen such as Monsieur Prouteau. Thanks, Ian, this is an incredible interview for you to have bagged!
In the seventies (post Munich Massacre) there were very few units to copy, basically, only the SAS Pagoda Troop, the Israeli units were not open to foreigners. Plus GIGN had very little support from the high ups in the Gendarmerie, little budget unitl the Loyada operation. So Prouteau and some of his men had to be creative, like Wegener with GSG9 (of course the budget was different). And the Police was waiting to see the unit fail so they could take its place.
Agreed. The one thing I wish he (or someone else) would update (and admittedly probably has already) is how to enforce that same sort of discipline, consideration and frankly philosophy, while using a weapon that's undeniably more effective in practice, like a modern, immensely reliable pistol, equipped with a red dot. As a weapon for making accurate hits in tough conditions it is almost impossible to argue that a revolver is better these days, but how do you make sure you instill that same SENSE of using the weapon without falling into the trap of it being "too easy" with the modern stuff... To me at least the ideal would be the mentality that you need to use a revolver like that effectively, but with an even more effective gun, and in the end you _have to_ practice with the gun you're going to be using...
@@jubuttib The Mk 23 of the Navy perhaps?
@@jean-pascalesparceil9008 I was thinking more doctrinally and in terms of how to train to achieve the same philosophical goals, rather than a specific weapon. =)
I have now watched this a 2nd time, and am (re)struck by M. Prouteau's point that the police are to bring the bad guy(s) to justice, not to simply mete out "intermediate" justice. That is a superb philosophy, and requires the highest level of professional capability and humility.
French viewer here. Thanks a lot for this interview, the man and the group are legends ! I think now you can get brand new MR73s in the USA, such an iconic weapon. 🇫🇷 Again thanks to you and Monsieur Prouteau for this interview.
Thank you for a great interview. Monsieur Prouteau is the most impressive interviewee I have seen on your channel. The mental and professional rigour that he applied to his work, shine through in his words. Empirical data will always override sales talk and acquired habits. The routine of carrying out marksmanship training at the end of the working day makes perfect sense to me. I have always trained shooters in basic safety on the basis that: you have to be safe whatever the conditions. Genuine high level marksmanship training can only be conducted on the same rigorous basis. The old saying about making the training harder than the real thing exists for a reason.
Je comprends tout les mots! Merci beaucoup Monsieur Prouteau.
That was an amazing interview. It is for many of the reasons he mentioned, that I have gone back to carrying revolvers. I feel I am much more effective mentally knowing that I have to make every shot count. In addition to having complete confidence in my weapon, in any position and from direct contact (problematic with pistols) out to 50 yards.
i bet even Ian never would have thought he'd be interviewing the founder of the GIGN when he started this project over 10 years ago
A fantastic interview! It's clear with everything he says that he's put so much thought into every component of the program - ways to make the training less predictable and more realistic and challenging in that way, the psychology of a small clip and the reality of firing a gun at a person, the specifics of ammunition types and sustained accuracy, and even usage considerations like drawing from the holster smoothly. Truly an expert take on security, he must have done great things with GIGN.
Merci Ian pour cette video formidable! As a German, living in Switzerland I know how hard it can be learning a foreign language especially french! Keep on learning and putting out this great videos we all can learn so much from! Encore une fois merci beaucoup! Amitiés J
Listening to Monsieur speak, I just remember Ian saying: "Nobody copied the French and the French copied no one."
Respect, absolutely love the French. Sorry LindyBeige x) Just listening to the language and understanding it partly makes my heart glow with joy, such a lovely and complicated culture.
LindyBeige! Yeah!
Thank you! And contrary to some belief, firearms were a great part in our culture, but unfortunately, it's lost for most of the french people now. We made a lot of "firsts" in the firearms history and we still have good manufacturers. It's a shame that, not only gun culture has mostly disappeared, but that our armed forces don't use french guns anymore...
I remember that- what video was that? The comment about French originality.
Best interview so far, i'm french, and this interview, collab is very good. Merci beaucoup Ian
I loved hearing him talk about the 4" S&W 19. My dad was a British police firearms officer throughout the 80s and 90s. For many years that was his issue sidearm. When they switched to Glocks in the early 90s, Dad bought his S&W 19 from the dealer they traded them to. It was always my favourite of his pistols to fire.
Is there a way nowadays for retired British police to keep their handguns or do they have to be turned in?
@@dmytro732 No. This was back when a civilian could own a handgun in Britain. My dad had a Firearms Certificate to own a handgun and arranged to purchase the revolver that had been his issued pistol.
In 1997 or 1998 handguns became prohibited firearms in Britain and they had to be surrendered to the local police force, for them to destroy.
@@PltOffPPrune that's honestly heartbreaking to hear that this prohibition was extended even to police officers.
@@Barbaroossa At the same time, handguns are the firearm most used in crimes, so makes sense to take them out of circulation. And I suspect that the prohibition does not apply to those active police officers who need them (undercover work, living with death threats etc.).
@@lavrentivs9891 yes, but mostly illegally held handguns. So whilst legal civilian ownership of handguns outside Northern Ireland has ceased (with no doubt a few exceptions as the mechanism exists to grant s5 status) the amount of handgun crime has not abated and indeed has increased. It was a kneejerk political reaction to a tragedy caused by a failing in the licensing system.
Definitely one of the peaks of your channel and of YT as a whole, and a great testament to the great work you're doing Ian.
Ian i do not have enough thumbs to put up to qualify that interview.
They never was such a deep dive interview of Mr Prouteau here on TV (or i missed it) Thank you for that.
Hats off to the translator who's help made it seamless.
The explanation about how the MR73 is more a weapon system with that strong relation beetween barrel length, projectile and burnning speed of the powder than just a fancy gun to achieve a 1st effective round on target every single time, not to harm or kill but to bring criminals to justice is a gem!
How in hell did you manage an interview with this man?
"Au GIGN on a 2 vitesses, à l'arrêt et à fond!"
Prouteau is a Legend.
Best interview on any gun channel hands down. Hearing you talk to this man of honor made me feel proud, if tangentially, to be part of the gun community.
Legendary tier interview. Amazing how a .357 mag revolver was like this unit’s katana- more than a weapon and not just a symbol, an embodiment of the group’s warrior philosophy.
Well put.
Norma heavy charged 158s they used also. Bob Petersen were one of the first to hunt very big game with his ,357 , Polarbear was the largest one.
And in the shadows decade befire this, Phillip B Sharpe and Elmer Keith behind development and standarisation of the fine ,357.
If one want most penetration a 180 grain ,like a Swirt Aframe or Keith style is fine.
Such a privilege to learn from a true expert. Fascinating. Thank you.
Prouteau was frequently in contact with Danny Coulson; FBI HRT creator and first commander. In Coulson's book, he describes Prouteau as a friend, sharing the same values.
Never would I have thought that I would read 32 minutes of subtitles about French Special Forces philosophy, but that was fascinating! Well done!
Wow. Just wow.
However, this brought back some memories. I was a police officer in Oxford, MS in the late '80s and we had an intern from the University whose father was the Captain over Memphis PD's TACT Team. He gave us a bunch of "home videos" of them doing training. The videos showed them using 1911s of some sort and the were jamming as they did any sort of dynamic movement. Because of that, they went to S&W 25-5 revolvers in .45LC as sidearms. They had to take a shot, it 100% had to work. They were jot military and they did not do "volume of fire." And they didn't have to spin the spinner.
What a great interview...thank you Ian and thank Prouteau. Exelence brought to it best...sadly just a revolver remains now....good I have one and train enough to appreciate it.
I have never heard of this pistol until now. Can't wait to learn more. "A gun is no substitute for courage"... damn... Ian does it again!!! Also, I just received my forgotten weapons coffee mug... it looks great... support the channels you love!!!
You can find several videos on UA-cam about the Mr73 It was conceived to fire full charged. 357 cartridges, 100 rounds a day for several years and not losing its precision.
Fantastic stuff! I am a big fan of this man and the MR revolvers. He is clearly very versed in the science of shooting, and I wish you would've asked him about dry firing drills, and his opinions. I have read a lot about the Manurhin revolvers (and Mr. Prouteau), but seeing him in an interview makes me understand how clever he really is. Thanks for posting this, a UA-cam high mark!
Same! Please, please, if you ever get a chance to have him on again Ian, please ask him to talk more about his dry firing drills so we can learn more from his wisdom! Even if we don't end up agreeing on some fundamental principles, ANYONE that ever considers a firearm for the protection of self and loved ones would benefits from hearing this wonderful man's thoughts and practical tips!
Forgotten Weapons is not a channel dedicated to this, and has no obligation to this end... But I do believe we really need channels doing more content like this.
I'll say as an American, where politics aside it is a known fact that guns are in major proliferation, the proportionate proliferation of high quality discussion of both practical and philosophical aspects of firearm usage is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.
Firearms are a TREMENDOUS responsibility to bear, and need to be treated and discussed as such. Nothing is more effective for protection, but that efficacy also creates such grave risks to the bearer and loved ones around that it should NOT be taken lightly.
No matter what, thanks for having this master of the craft on the channel, Ian et al!
Normal SWAT teams: "You're coming with us dead or alive... but probably dead!"
GIGN: "We'll turn you into Jesus rather than let you die! We said: YOU COMMIN' WITH US!"
Mr Prouteau is an absolute legend, and it was a real pleasure to hear the fantastic tales behind both GIGN and the MR73. That confidence shot really puts things into perspective. As a former artillery man who addresses shells "To whom this may concern" that was a quite different take on things. I really like the "You're not certified to shoot in a hostage situation until you can shoot at your own buddy without sweating it"-philosophy....
Such a well spoken and thoughtful man. His ideas of justice and the role of the GIGN is truly admirable - If more police forces worked under similar overarching philosophy we wouldn't have movements like ACAB happening.
Thanks, Ian, for giving such an insightful interview.
What an interesting interview.I have quite an interest in French Cold War stuff,especially when it comes to their tanks like AMX-30,excellent aircraft like Mirage series and light attack heli like Gazelles but their firearms are also great.It's great to see and hear an explanation why GIGN chose revolvers for their sidearms and its application to real life situations.
Thank you so much for this.
I had the chance to have him as a guest in my school a few weeks ago. He gave us a fascinating insight on the GIGN and more importantly on my future job
Brilliant interview! His comments about the way revolver demands “intention” in shooting resonates with me, particularly these days, when so many “experts” are counseling us to go about our day-to-day lives equipped to face off with a squad of armed thugs.
Intention is great and all, but he's speaking from the point of view of a squad of elite special forces units bringing in suspects, not your average Joe being mugged by a group of guys.
@@stevenbobbybills He’s speaking from the perspective of someone who recognizes that shooting people has consequences. And that Walking Dead is a work of fiction.
@@Vivi2372 that training that they actually have, as part of a unit, in a country with an entirely different criminal culture from the United States.
Once again, how many ordinary citizens are going to be fine after being jumped on their own with nothing but a revolver? Hell, even normal police officers? The majority aren't GIGN material and have barely any trigger time.
A semi-auto isn't going to win a fight for you, but you've got a far better chance, hence why most police forces on the planet have switched away and the MR 73 is ceremonial in current use.
@@fullmetalpenguin ...what on Earth does The Walking Dead have to do with anything? I didn't say anything about having to fight off a horde of undead...
I'm a big believer in "the more the merrier" for compact semiautos as the rounds themselves are weaker than what this guy is shooting out of his Manhurin. I could carry a 5 round .357 but those are quite unpleasant to shoot. I'll take a 10 round 9mm any day. Also, as has been stated, this is someone with thousands of hours of training. Joe from Home Depot that has put two boxes of 9mm through his Glock 26 over the past year isn't going to be able to make each shot count unless it is point blank shooting. And don't get me started on boar and bear defense...
Fascinant!! Vraiment impressionant d'entendre et comprendre une philosphie dont trop peu de gens sont au courant et qui est admirable, et devrait etre plus repandu .... Merci pour ce beau cadeau, Ian!
Pas mieux Joyeux Noël !
THANK YOU so much for using subtitles and not a voice over. French is my primary language so it is great to hear both the original voices.
And great content!
A fantastic interview. It's always a pleasure to hear from people with the experience and expertise as Mr Prouteau. His poised and incredibly detailed answers to your questions were a joy to listen to and must have been a dream as the interviewer.
Find someone who looks at you the way Ian looks at the founder of GIGN
Lol!gold!
Well wish my wife still look at me like that 😂
🤣🤣
Amazing interview, I could've watched another hour hearing this French Hero's wisdom. He's the team leader you dream of having because he cares about human life, not instant justice.
This training regimen had vast similarities to my training in the government of Canada. I know that we collaborated with the French. My service sidearm was 5/14 S&W 38 sp + P. I loved the mechanical double action feel, and could push tacks all day at 25 meters. Very interesting interview here!
Fascinating interview Ian. In an era of “plastic fantastic” it’s not all about the gun but how you train and the philosophy behind the training.
Not sure what’s more amazing- this guy’s accomplishments, or that fact that he is 77 years old and in that kind of shape.
Sir, I enjoyed that so much. I am a Francophile, retraite et resident en France, still a military historian, a collector and shooter of of my M&P S&W revolvers and of course my MR 73 Manurhin 5.25” revolver. From my research not only is each GIGN trooper who when qualifies presented with a Manurhin revolver, these models are still actively utilized along with their Sig and Glock semi autos, accuracy is still a essential requirement. However I believe the original GIGN principle to not shoot to kill but shoot to nullify the threat is now no longer an operational fact. Since the terrorist attacks in Paris in 2015 (and the suicide bomber issue) snipers are trained to aim for an instant kill shot. Truly an excellent interview, bon courage mon ami.
In the two recent non-terrorist-suspect-holed-in-the-mountains operations, GIGN operators did everything to keep them alive even when they had to shoot one. Of course the Kouachi brothers took many bullets to be neutralized, different situations, different principles.
As a mere human i would feel super humbled to even be in the same room as this man let alone speak with him and ask him questions, holy cow! Really great interview Ian and fantastic, in-depth responses from Christian Prouteau himself. What an unexpected and super interesting video!
One could really see the mutual respect, that both of these men have for each other. I would have loved though, if they had shown the cased revolver, too. I'm proud, to have a 5 1/4" barrelled MR73 myself!
First, we learn small arms and the love of the M1 carbine with Ken Hackathorn, then a mini masterclass on revolver marksmanship with Christian Prouteau these topics are getting way better
That was absolutely fantastic, I can't believe it took me a year to see this. So well done
Getting this man on camera is one of the best things you've ever done on your channel .
I love the fact how casual this whole meeting looks like. Like you can get an opportunity to interview the person who is behind THE GIGN every now and then. No, this is fantastic footage and it's amazing that you were able to record it and share it with us. The philosophy that this man have is amazing and right. Thank you Ian. Outstanding.
Wow, the real deal. Congratulations, Ian, you have arrived!
Wow. Incredible. I'd love to hear some more of his operations if possible.
I've watched the movie ' L' Assault'' and was impressed, but the philosophy behind it all is incredible!
One of the best firearms and shooting related interviews ever!
Thank you, gentlemen... one of your best UA-cam videos ever.
Wow Ian, you have outdone yourself once again! What an amazing interview -- clearly your exploits have commanded a high level of respect to get this kind of access.
It's also so refreshing to hear a law enforcement official talk about the immense responsibility inherent in arming police forces -- that taking a life is a huge decision and should always be seen as a last resort no matter the situation. That the idea of equipping the GIGN with this revolver wasn't just about giving them a great weapon, but about training them to become better, smarter, and more professional.
That totally flips the script on the current trend in the US, where over militarizing our police forces by equipping them with assault rifles, humvees, armored cars, and insane body armor is becoming the norm, when they SHOULD be focused on 1) serving their communities 2) non-violent conflict resolution (aka not shooting at the first sign of trouble), and 3) not being racist (that's a whole other issue).
Great interview Ian!
What an incredible catch, Ian! This is remarkable.
That note about using slow burning powders in revolvers is quite interesting. And it seems to be generally true that lower pressure are better for accuracy (as with sporting airguns vs firearms).
I think he meant power, slow burning powder gets a lot more power from a 357mag cartridge.
9 mm pistol cartridges must use fast-burning gunpowder.
@@villev8844 The case capacity of a 9x19 is approximately 1/2 of a .357 magnum. So it can hold much less powder and needs faster burning stuff to get the needed velocity. Btw. 9 mm has lower pressures than .357 mag.
@@sorenlilienthal1368 Standard 9mm is 35,000 psi, 357mag also 35,000 psi. 9mm+P is 38,500 psi. 9mm is a high pressure cartridge...Also slow burning powders don't work very well in low temps such as 30 degrees or colder.
At the time, reloads for 9x19 mm and .38 special used BA 10 or BA 9 powders (cylinder shaped grains), full loads for .357 and .44 magnum used S3 (spherical shape); the number gives you the speed of burning.
@@GC-Jo Thanks for your input! I had the European/C.I.P. figures in mind, with 9x19 at 2350 bar and .357 magnum at 3000 bar
WOW Ian, this was a GREAT guest. By listening to Proteau and his philosophy makes you think about a few things. This was a great interview. THANK YOU!!!
It was an honor just having the opportunity to watch this interview. A very intelligent, experienced warrior. Will be rewatchng this several times.
Probably the best interview you've done! Thank you.
Thank you to M. Prouteau for sharing his insights, and thank you Ian for bringing them to us! There are many people in positions of power who would do well to heed his words on the weilding of such power.
I follow your channel from France. It makes me happy to understand everything for once :). Thanks for the quality interview.
I like how he calmly talks about how at the end of their training, they put on bullet proof vests with targets on them and shoot at each other.
trust your material, and most important as he say, trust your partner :)
@@ecarlate
"I trust that the ceramic trauma plate I'm wearing will stop a .357 Magnum round traveling at four-hundred and ninety meters per second. I trust myself not to move, not to flinch. I trust my team mates and they trust me." - Julien "Rook" Nizan.
Interview particulièrement intéressante dont on retrouve l'esprit et les précisions dans le dernier livre de C. Prouteau sur le GIGN : Nous étions les premiers. Thank you forgotten weapons
Outstanding interview, Ian!! How rare it is to be able to sit down and really get into the mindset of someone so legendary in this field. Thoroughly enjoyed hearing of the philosophy behind the selection and use of the MR-73. I would love to hear his thoughts on the new Beretta imported MR-73.
Shouldn't be much different from those on the revolver, he helped to create. There had been a time, when a MR-73 had Millet sights, to reduce costs. But the current model has in house sights, again.
Thank you Ian. What an amazing opportunity to showcase history direct from the source. What you do will never be insignificant.
Phenomenal interview Ian, so glad you had this opportunity and could share it with us!
That was 32 minutes of reading subtitles I don't regret. Bravo!
What an incredible opportunity. There is nothing like the modest, informed demeanor of a true expert. Spend an hour on the range with him, and I bet next year's desert brutality the MR73 will lead you to glory!
I can't think of a more fitting channel for that interview.
That was an absolutely amazing video
That was an amazing interview. You can understand how principled and driven he is. Could listen to him for hours.
I’m not much of a gun guy but I enjoy all of Ian’s videos. This is the best one! Learned so much from this interview.
I love his attitude. The world needs more of his kind.
Awesome interview long time revolver shooter and handgun hunter here, I also found 5 inch barrel to shoot just as accruate as longer barrels and i shoot out to 200 yards though I shoot model 27 or 29 mostly. It took me many many thousands of round before I felt comfortable shooting a handgun at living breathing animals and as result I have always has success and one shot kills. Top ter handgun marksmanship is a skill that you will quickly loose if not in constant practice atleast weekly if not daily.
It is a great privilege to listen to a man with such focus and attention to detail. Thank you Iain. Your content is remarkable.
Thank you, Mr. Prouteau, for the interview. It’s pleasure and honor to watch the person of your achievements.
Bonjour de France 🇫🇷
Superbe entrevue ! Ta chaîne est top 👍🏻 vraiment.
il was a pleasure for me Monsieur Prouteau ! et merci pour l’alibi d’avoir MR73 + FRF1 dans mon armoire forte. be safe.
This is a wonderful interview. I applaud you for bringing this gentleman to your channel, and sharing this extraordinary history with the world!
Amazing you had the opportunity to talk to him, even french interviews of this man are scarce
Most informative and inspiring interview about hand gun marksmanship I ever listened to. Prouteau explains professionalism requires dedication, practice and the necessity to constantly challenge oneself. It is profound the way GIGN psychologically challenge themselves. I now see revolvers and semi autos in a different light, whereby double action can facilitate advantages for the shooter.
Man this interview was awesome! Id love to have one of the MR-73 revolers. This man's philosophy on what true skill is has absolutely bestowed honor and greatness to what it means to shoot a revolver.
Invite this man to one of the Brutality matches. He strikes me as the sort of fellow who would appreciate the way those sorts of things are run…
With all due respect to all the Brutality competitors out there, I think that would be a prime example of 'A Thoroughbred In A Donkey Race', and Cdt. Prouteau would be curling his lip in Gallic disdain before the first shot was fired...
@@therogers4432 lol
The man is 77 and was wounded in operation...I mean, he probably could outshoot most of the guys in matches still, but give him a break.
If he could get the legend himself to design a stage that would elevate the brutality matches to a whole new level.
@@the_senate8050 Yes yes YES -Now that would open-up a whole new world of Brutality for everybody, huh?
That is NOT an interview I had ever expected to hear. That makes a number of things much more clear.
Thank you.