Triumph Bonneville Valve Clearance Check And Shim Replacement
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- Опубліковано 16 кві 2017
- The Triumph twins (Bonneville, Thruxton, Scrambler) with the 865 engine require a valve clearance check at 12,000 miles. In this video I'll show close-ups of the whole process, including the clearance check as well as the removal of the cams to measure and replace some of the shims. In my case, two exhaust and two intake valves were out of specification, which meant measuring the existing shims and ordering new ones. My Bonneville is a 2010 model, but this procedure is the same on a wide range of Triumph twin bikes.
The intake valve clearance should be between .15mm and .20mm and the exhaust valve clearance should be between .25mm and .30mm. To complete this project you'll need the cam cover gasket and cam cover bolt seals. If you need to remove your cams to replace shims, you'll need the oil pipe crush washers, the oil pipe O-ring, whatever 25mm shims you determine you need, and some engine assembly lube. The cost in parts is probably about $100 in total, or less if no shims are needed. The 25mm shims are also available from Honda and other manufacturers, though they may not be available in the right thickness. - Авто та транспорт
I couldn't have done my Bonnie's two-year maintenance without this video -- watched it so many times before and during the process -- THANK YOU!
Glad it helped!
I'm picking up a 3-year-old Speedmaster today, in a few hours. Excited and just jonesing for info. Found this video. Finished in one go, liked, then subbed. Straight forward, attention to detail, even masking taped the container box into compartments. No bull, no fuss. Superbly done and I immediately knew to subscribe as whatever is cooked by this chef, I'd like a whif. Thanks for a great video and would happily explore for more, when I am eventually on downtime from riding, say, waiting for shims, maybe.
Good luck with your new bike!
Just watched. Thank you for a straightforward no nonsense video. Perfect!
Just wanted to say thanks, I did the valves on my 2013 Bonneville America today and watching your video before hand was a huge help.
Awesome, glad to hear it!
Great vid, thanks! Doesn't seem as complex as some other bikes out there, which is always nice.
Great explanation of the process your efforts are appreciated!
Great video mate, just what i needed to see before tackling my own!
Hats off to you sir for great video. Specially your meticulous method and excellent close-ups!
Thank you!
Thank you great video, quality and to the point.
1st class video Tinderboxarts!! ... nice and simple and super sharp pictures with good sound !!!! thank you for sharing
Great video, really helps show the workings in that area. I know I'll be coming back to this video a lot!
Top video.Quality and clear instructions.Love the homemade stuff and shortcuts.
I’ll be watching this when I do my 08 Thruxton here soon. Thanks.
Thanks, nicely done! All the needed detail, easy to follow. I'm about to do this on my 2012.
Thank you very much for this video. This is very well explained. Very, very helpful.
Thanks for this video. I doubt i will ever get down to doing something this complicated by myself, but it helped me understand the engine better. Very well done.
Thanks for doing this video, I had to watch it twice to understand it fully but that's on me hah. Very clear instructions and descriptions on what needs to be done. Hopefully my clearances are in spec and I won't have to replace any shims!
Perfect presentation. Thanks mate.
Exlent video. This will def help when doing my '07 Scrambler.
Best video to do this I have seen to date. Checked mine at 12000 and were all in spec going to do them again at 20000. Thank you.
Ahh , the old socks . Yes . We all use em . Great vid . Thanks . Nice job !! American ingenuity at its best! !!
Awesome info and video. Thanks for posting it.
Thank you so much for this video! Like others have said, great audio and even more importantly the camera work was spot on. I have just shy of 28k miles and I was out of spec on all of them but one intake. I have the triumph service manual, but it always helps to watch a UA-cam video like yours. Thank you, thank you!
Yes, it is nice to be able to see it live before you tackle it yourself. What did we do before youtube?!
Absolutely brilliant video, thanks so much.
thanks for the great preciseness explaining of valve job..It helps allot😁👍
Great video, thanks for posting it!
Thanks, very helpful! Going to check my valve clearances now, hoping I wont have to replace any shims.
Fantastic video, I'll need to do this very soon.
AMAZING video. Thanks!!!!
Great job and great video. This is the kind of YT'er than you learn from. I'm not a big arts guy but your photographs on your website are fantastic. Keep up the good work, humanity needs you :)
That's very kind, thank you!
Cheers man, really helpful!
Great video !! Thanks… very informative and precise… I turned up a couple of those tools on the lathe today, and worked a treat… a couple of things… you don’t need to remove the oil pipe separately from the caps… I also broke my torx bit on a couple of those bolts… they were ridiculously tight !! I have never liked the torx head bolts, the hole is way too shallow for the bit… I replaced them with high tensile allen cap screws (40mm) and used moly grease on the threads… my clearances were way way too big, you could have driven a very large truck through the gaps, I replaced 8 shims, and turned out perfectly… Honda and Yamaha also use a 25mm shim, which I have had for years… my exhaust valve clearances were up around 0.37mm and intake were at 0.27/8 mm… I only remove one cam at a time…
By the way, Honda and Yamaha do make in-between shims, ie, 2.78, 2.82 etc… which allows you to be more accurate in final clearances… anyway, great video thanks…
Super good video, thanks a million!
Great video! i also watched it over and over before and during the “operation”. couldn’t have done it without your video which really showed how easy it is to do yourself and save on labor costs.
That's great to hear!
Great video. Clear instructions and picture. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, super helpful.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video! Really appreciate you taking the time to explain how to do this for us novice wrenchers. Cheers! 👌
Glad it was helpful!
Well explained! 👍🏻
Thanks. I had to check my speedmaster, in fact the gasket had perished so was leaking. I got lucky and my tolerances were within the guidelines big smiley face that I didnt have to go through the arseache.
Nice educational video. Thanks.
Brilliant video, very nicely dun 👌
Great video! It helped me tackle my 12k valve adjustment. Can’t stress blocking holes enough! Moved one of my rags just a bit for more access, and dropped an alignment dowel from cap #2 down the breather tube. Got it with a magnet.
I have an appreciation for your disappointment when you had to shim some valves. I did too, waited two weeks for them. Ugh. Thanks a million for this video!
Lucky for magnets! It does pay to take your time and move carefully in this sort of work. The waiting for parts is really the biggest bummer, but you can't predict what you'll need.
Clear, consise, excellent! Many thanks 👍
Glad it was helpful!
This is such a great video - thank you so much for doing this. I just checked my valves at 12,500 and need 4 of 8 replaced. One thing I'll add as it confused this idiot for a few minutes: when checking the gaps, just get those knobby things pointing in the right direction, you don't look to line up the dash and dot marks yet... that's later. I kept turning the engine trying to get it to align and finally realized how stupid I was.
Great video. very helpful. Thanks. Really!
Thank you. I have book marked this. Mine is way over due. I've also been dreading doing this job. With this video, I will give it a go. My dealership closed down and the closest one now is 100 miles away. I have loved this bike for the past 6 yrs. and want to keep it forever.
You could pre-order some shims in case you need them, but it's a guessing game which ones you would need and it gets expensive. Just remember, though, that other manufacturers, including Honda, use the same size shims so you may not need to visit a Triumph dealer or go online.
Excellent ! Well done . Thank you and Ride well ....
Great video, thanks!
Very well done 🇬🇧
That was great!! I just finished up my first engine course and we covered (loosely) valves and clearances. SO I immediately headed home to see if I could find a video to show me how it works on my bike an 04 Thruxton. I know the bikes are a bit different but my sense is as far as the valves are concerned it will be pretty close if not exact. Thank you for helping to visualize what I needed to see.
Yeah, the Triumph parallel twins are all very similar. My 2010 is an 865 and I think your Thruxton is almost the same.
Holy crap! I’m glad it’s so easy 🤦🏼♂️
Than, you,clear and concise.
..and I thought Kawasaki is complex. I do not own a Triumph but I like how do you explained and showed it, Thanks
I do this the same way. lol. I use bolts ground down to lock the cams' split gear as well. I also don't take off the engine case cover either. I use the back tire to get the timing lined up. I use a pick to get out the shim out. I mark all the shims and map it out on my own diagram of the head. I even use the motor honey on reassembly lol. Glad I am doing things right.
Great minds think alike!
Thanks, wery good!!
Good advice blowing out rou d the plugs. I did a quick job on a customers bike one time & a tiny stone fell in. Fcked a perfectly good motor.
Yeah, it's something a lot of people overlook. All sorts of stuff can collect in that area, and you don't want it entering the engine.
Great Video! that is how you do a video i have a 2006 America that needs the clearances checked so guess what - i'm doin it.
Glad it helped!
Glad to watch and see what's involved. But there is always a but you can compress the bucket and remove the shim without taking the cam shaft off. It's how i have done for many years on cars, used to replace many leaking valve stem seals with the head on and valve springs removed. May have to be a winter project next year when mine are due to make a tool if not one out already.
I know that trick works on some bikes, but not this one! A few people have attempted it but there isn't space to do it on the Triumph.
Marv’ from Home Alone?!
Fucks sake brother nice shot!!! What a blessing you are to anyone needed to adjust there valve shims. Seriously man the value of this video is staggering and the quality of execution, documentation, editing, and just brass solid information is absolutely stellar. God bless you sir. Subscribed 👍
If you are doing your own valve adjustments have these parts on hand before starting. O rings and crush washers are cheap. You can purchase those shims in a kit
Getting parts these days is not always simple. The supply chain issues continue and quality has become awful. The shims for this bike are the same as for many Hondas, so you can source them at a local Honda dealer too.
I wish that I could give two thumbs up for the video.
Hi, just learning new things here and greatly appreciated your video. Do you know if the new Triumph Street Scrambler 900 will have the same configuration with the valve adjustments, I.e. Layout and clearance specs?
I don't know, but when engine designs are re-used or improved through model years they tend to keep the same basic valve train. It's when they completely redesign an engine from the ground up for a new bike generation that things may change dramatically. You may be able to figure out from the marketing if Triumph has implemented a new design for the bike in question.
One thing you forgot to mention is that you need to rotate the engine again to get cylinder number 2 to top dead center to check the valve gap for that piston.
Good job, very easy to understand.
Is there anything wrong with just using engine oil to lube everything in the assembly process?
Probably not, but we all like to baby our bikes, right?
Brilliant video thanks 😊 the cam cover gasket keeps falling of when I try to refit, can I put some red rubber grease on it or should I leve it dry as you said ?
I would leave it dry. It may be that you need to shift it slightly in the groove, or you may find that temperature--hotter or colder-- will help keep it in place.
Thank you for your reply I will try that 😊
Great video! Very details explanation. Did you notice any differences before and after valve adjustment? In term of performance , gas mileage?
No, performance was the same. Possibly it was slightly smoother, but that could have been all in my head. The main thing is to avoid undue wear before it gets worse.
Why is the cam gear in two pieces?
Thanks for making this video, it's been super helpful! I am having some trouble getting the exhaust side back in though. My #1 holder doesn't want to seat properly. There is a gap between the top and bottom portion of the holder. My intake side sat down just fine with a little effort, and I then tightened my bolts a little at a time. I'm nervous to start tightening the bolts on the exhaust side with that gap present. Do you think it would cause any issues to give that a try in order to suck the holder into place?
I'm not sure I follow you. By "holder" do you mean the bearing caps? In other words, you mean you put the cam in and placed the caps on top, but they aren't seating easily? if so, I would just carefully pull them back off and check to make sure the bearing halves didn't move on you and there's nothing that found it's way in there. Then put them back, watch that everything lines up as it should, and you can slowly tighten things back up. Use oil or assembly lube for the bearings and that could also help with reassembly.
@@tinderboxarts thanks! I got them in there with a little more patience. Of course I then snapped a banjo bolt and have to hunt a new one down. Thanks for the reply!
Great video, Tinderbox. I have a question, though. My Yamaha has a shim over bucket valve system very similar to the one Triumph uses. However, Yamaha has a tool you can use to compress the valve spring to remove the shim, without pulling the cams. Do you think a tool like this would also work on a Triumph? It pushes down on the edge of the bucket, but doesn't cover the edge of the shim. Makes shim replacement much easier than what you indicate here.
Yeah, I'm aware that this works for other bikes but the physical layout of the Triumph doesn't allow it. Other folks have tried it with tools that they already owned and it failed.
Hi, this is a great video and I’m looking forward to putting it into practice for my 2011 Bonneville. I was hoping some one would be able to tell me the size/dimensions of the o-ring and crush washers he mentions... I can’t find anything on line. Cheers
The cam cover bolt washers are T1260309, I think. But, your bike could be different. If you search under "triumph OEM parts" you'll get a bunch of websites where you can see parts diagrams with part numbers for your bike.
@@tinderboxarts Thank you for that! I finally found an Australian based OEM parts manual in line after looking the code for the washers! appreciate the help. Also great tip on the little screw "tool" made one the other day, looking forward to getting stuck into the job. thanks once again for the help and the amazing video
Good video. This seems like a bit of a pain in the ass for a valve job. My 64 Triumph 650 takes 10 minutes to check and adjust valves. Even my 75 Honda CB750 4 cylinder is less of a hassle. I just picked up a 07 Bonneville, so I'll have to check these sometimes soon. This was at 12,000 miles?
I can't recall now what the mileage was, but in that vicinity probably. The biggest pain about this check is that you have to pull the fuel tank and you need to make that special tool. I know my BMW with the boxer engine is a lot easier and quicker.
So the cams ride on bronze bushings....comparing whether to rebuild a hot rod xs 650 or go with modern
Bonneville? Seems the xs 650 is built with "less moving parts" and everything ride on
large ball bearings.
I was just reading on one of the Triumph forums about a fellow who recently turned over 100K miles on his Bonneville. They are a pretty sturdy design.
Good video. Clear pics. Isn't there a Triumph tool to compress the valves whilst you exchange the shims without removing the cams?
Some bikes you can do that--compress the valve and sneak out the shims. On this bike, however, it doesn't work on all of the valves and you will have to remove the cams anyway.
@@tinderboxarts Pity.
Where did you find you micrometer? I haven't been able to find one where I live.
Obvious places to check locally would be a well stocked auto parts store or a Harbor Freight store if you have one. Otherwise, you can order from Amazon or another online retailer.
Can you tell me what the parts are called for the washers for the torx bolts, the crush washers and the o rings please. Any links for them on ebay etc would be great
Many of the online vendors selling parts also have parts diagrams too. Search under "OEM parts for Triumph" and you'll come up with some websites to look at. Usually you put in your VIN number so you know you have the right parts for your bike. They can change from year to year.
Hi , I posted 4 days ago and you replied , but I can't see the comment or response . Just a quick question , the Triumph shims are supplied in 0.025mm increments . The clearance values are in hundredths of a mm , could I manage with a micrometer which reads in hundredths of a mm or will I need one which reads thousandths of a mm to measure the existing shims ? Thanks again .
I think you'll be fine with your existing micrometer. I'll look into that other comment and see what happened...
Question, I also didn't remove the alt cover. I lined up the timing marks and removed one cam. Then looking in the manual, it looked like the word top was supposed to be visible on the top of the chain gear. Does that matter? Am I ok as long as I keep the dots and dashes lined up? Thanks again!
There could be differences among models and model years, so I wouldn't fret about it unless you think you confused something as you were working.
I’m gonna try just zip tying the spring loaded gears
Let us know how well it worked!
Regarding the dowel you made (bolt that you grinded) to hold the gears in place, can a zip tie be used instead?
Hm. I guess it might be possible, I'd have to see with the engine apart again how that might work. I think I'd feel better about using the bolt, though. If you don't have a grinding wheel you could use a file and a vise. It doesn't take that long, really.
@@tinderboxarts Thanks!
when would a timing chain replacement be needed?
That's a good question! It isn't like a car with a recommended interval. Most cam chains have a tensioner to keep the slack correct, and I would guess that many riders find the chain lasts the life of the bike. If it stretched to the point of being a problem, you might notice noise or performance issues.
Hey @tinderboxarts, what specific engine oil do you use on your bonnie?
I've been using Mobil 1 4T, which is a 10w40 synthetic. No complaints. There are other synthetics which are good too, but the Mobil 1 is available in my local area.
Do you need to drain the oil to do a valve clearance
No, you're working up top.
Great video. I just bought a 2005 bonneville with 19 grand on the clock. So is that maintenance done every 12000 miles?
Man,,,, that's a lotta work just to adjust valves. So do they make a shim kit, that you have on hand when you do this? Thanks. I'm sure I'll be doing this in a year or so.
Definitely want to put a center stand on it.
Well, the valves don't always need adjusting. If you just bought your 2005 Bonnie and the maintenance history is unknown it's probably worth checking the clearances to be sure. Get a new cam cover gasket at the same time, since they can start weeping when they get old. As far as I know there are no shim kits available. However, you may find that the shims are the same type used by other manufacturers such as Honda. So, if you need shims you could try a local Honda dealer if Triumph doesn't have any.
Do you have to check every 12k miles or will the next check need to be sooner?
That's a good question. To my way of thinking, the important thing is the interval. So, if you test good at X miles, you are good for another 12K interval. Others may feel that it's the actual mileage that matters. There could also be a middle ground in the sense that if you have a history or good checks or bad checks you might be inclined to check less or more often.
Are these numbers consistent with all bonivilles?
Well, the Bonneville range is pretty extensive now, but for the bikes with the same 865cc engine they are probably the same.
The 1979-1983 Honda DOHC 4's use the same shims. They might be cheaper from Honda than from Triumph. Most Honda dealers have an assortment box in the shop, they might exchange shims with you for a small fee.
Yes, the Honda dealer is definitely a good source if Triumph fails.
I've got everything done and in the process of getting everything back together the pin that I made to keep the backlash in spec it slipped and now the backlash gear is one tooth off from the larger gear next to it. the pin is crooked and since I assume its under tension I cant rotate it back by hand to realign them. do you know how to spin them back?
You might try a flat blade screwdriver so you can engage the teeth on both gears. Maybe somebody else has another idea...
@@tinderboxarts thats what I ended up doing! I just did it about 20 minutes ago. I was afraid to used a screwdriver and marring the surface but it worked! where did you buy your valve shims? everywhere I look has half of the ones I need in stock and the others are out of stock. its like that on all the sites I have found
Oh, that's good to hear that it worked. The shims I can't actually recall where I purchased, but it might have been at a local Honda dealer. The shims used on a number of Honda bikes are identical. You might try a local dealer near you and just bring in your Triumph shims to see if they have a match.
@@tinderboxarts I tried that but it seems like none of the 10 powersports shops in this area have 25mm shims! I feel like they were blowing me off honestly. thats why I was asking you to see if I was missing something obvious haha. I ordered some off of Dime City Cycles. I wanted them today but I guess I'll just have to wait.... it's okay anyway. I thought I could cheap out and not order the o-ring and when I pulled the tube off it was solid as a rock. I had to order one of those so I have no choice but to wait. you live and you learn
That's one big difference between automotive and motorcycle work--an auto parts store generally has the basics you need and even obscure parts are no more than a day or two away. Motorcycles you could be waiting weeks for mundane things.
Loose is good. Tight is bad. These are not performance machines. Mine were loose by .002 as well. I didn't change the shims.
At more than .005 you might start getting noise. Good vid.
When you measured the existing shim, you said .28. I thought it would be 2.8, not.28. Shims are available from 2.0 to 3.2 mm. I've never done this before and it's confusing. Thanks for posting it!
Nope--you''re right. I said "millimeter" when I meant "centimeter". Plus, I was converting from inches! Not to worry, there's no such thing as a shim under a millimeter so it won't be difficult to catch such a mistake!
Excellent video! This would be a bitch without this assistance Thnx
Yeah, it sounds intimidating until you see it done and then it isn't so bad.
those are SHIM- OVER-BUCKET type of valve .... and as far as i know and have actually done , you only need to buy the correct valve compressing tool and then you can remove and replace the shims one at a time without actually removing the cams
That's true for some bikes, but not this one. Unfortunately the physical dimensions don't allow the compressing tool to work.
Speedmaster & America cam lobes are in a different position!
Yes, this is for the engine found in the Bonnie/Thruxton/Scrambler modern classic series.
I just checked my Haynes Manual for 2001-2015: Bonneville, T100, Speedmaster, America, Thruxton, and Scrambler.....for checking the valve clearances the cam lobes are in the same position for all the above bikes according to the Haynes Manual...page 1-21. So I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean the cam lobes being in a different position? Do you mean in a different position for cam removal? I would go by the alignment marks on the gears and not lobe position.
My Bonneville has 28k miles n I don't think it's ever had the valves adjusted..its almost impossible to start cold. You think the valves need set.?
You didn't mention the model year. Starting about 2009 or 2010 Triumph installed fuel injection on the Bonneville and similar bikes. Prior to that there are a carburetors. For carbureted bikes cold starts will require use of a choke. On the initial generation of fuel injected bikes, there is also a "choke" knob which is required for cold starts, although that is really more about alerting the ECU than acting like a true choke. In ether case, this choke is critical for successful cold starts, so make sure you have that pulled out on start-up. Other reasons for difficulty in cold start-up can include carburetors which are not balanced or which have passageways clogged with deposits. Similarly, the fuel injected bikes also need to have both throttle bodies balanced. Vacuum leaks are another common cause of difficult starts, and I have a video about how to diagnose those. If your bike does run well once it is started, then it's unlikely that you have a problem with the ignition. More likely you have a problem with the fuel system, the intake or vacuum leaks. Other possibilities include a faulty throttle position sensor or crank position sensor.
As for the valve adjustment, you certainly need to have that done if it has been 28K miles! However, they would have to be significantly out of spec before it would cause a hard-starting problem and you would also notice the bike running poorly when warm.
@tinderboxarts thank you..its a 01 Bonneville.. I'm gonna pull the carbs n check em out.its runs great when its running lol. But the guy I got it from was clueless and I think he s tinkered with it
Yeah, carbureted bikes often suffer with these problems. Before you pull them off, though, see my video on vacuum testing and confirm that isn't the problem. And visually confirm that the choke is actually coming on inside the carbs in case there is a problem with that.
@tinderboxarts ok I'll try n find yr video
Here's the link: ua-cam.com/video/s7K5fOjWgeg/v-deo.html
It seems a bad practice for Triumph to use Torx for that application. Allen heads would have been much better.
You know, I get annoyed at Torx bolts too, although they aren't always bad. On my Jeep the heads rust and I want to scream at the engineers. Here they worked okay, but no better than allen heads. And, whatever happened to regular hex bolt heads?
Well, I first encountered Torx decades ago and didn't like them 'cos bits were rare. However, I now find them superior to Allen in many respects. Stronger, very rarely do they chuff or round the tool and they engage much more readily with production line tools. So maybe in time you'll get to appreciate them -- I didn't like these new-fangled Allen's when first seen a rather long time ago ;-)
But Robert! You know we all secretly love buying new tools.
You can even say to the wife - and not lie: "Bloody Triumph have.. etc etc, .. and I HAVE TO BUY MORE TOOLS:"
Then you get to spend a few hours in silent heaven, not only buying new tools, but also looking at new shit, and already start fabricating excuses for buying that.
Torx is literally better than allen, but ok....
I don't understand why they make such a big deal out of "NOT MOVING THE MOTOR!!!". I would think that all you have to do is line up the timing marks and you would be fine. Isn't that why they are there?
Well, the issue would be turning the engine over after the cams are out. Then you'd have to find top dead center again and line everything up. It's not the end of the world, but better to avoid.
2.79mm not 0.28mm
cheers
joel from metric australia
Did I misspeak at some point? It's a bitch working in two different measuring systems in the US, and you also need double the tools!
joel what thanks for clearing this up! i was wondering how that conversion worked and was reading through all the comments to find exactly what you posted! this is still a great helpful video!
I, like you, do my own work. It would be so easy for a backed up dealer to say they did this but didn't. I also just don't trust them. Has anyone said you sound like Joe Pesci? Especially as Leo Getz?
I have another youtube channel and the most popular comment is that I sound like Joe Pesci! New Jersey boys have to stick together, I guess.
Useless, poor mechanic. Get the bucket hold-down tool.
Instead of attempting to insult me, maybe you should take the time to read up before you type. If you are referring to the T3880012 triumph tool or similar, you'll find that the way the Bonneville and other modern twins were designed does not allow the tool to physically work on the inner valves. You have to pull the camshafts.
It's pretty obvious (to me at least) just by LOOKING...you're NOT going to be able to get a hold down tool in there! Now who is "useless, poor mechanic?"