For sure. Though I will remind you, Disney aren't the ones ruining Star Wars, the Storygroup and Kathleen Kennedy are. If Disney were capable of wrecking characters the way Luke has been then the Marvel Cinematic Universe would have flopped from day one. Say what you will about the quality of the films, but they know how to work their characters.
Fanalysis That is very true. I wonder if SW would do better with a Kevin Feige type person. That’s supposed to be Kennedy. Clearly she makes business decisions, but I have seen no evidence of her making creative decisions. I would pick someone like James Luceno. A very creative person who takes the universe in a cohesive direction.
The most bizarre thing in the movie(Outside of the Leia scene) is this "Let the past die" theme they shove down our throat, Because it is a stupid message! If you destroy the past then how could you learn from its mistakes? and as someone who values history and historical artifacts, in general, the very idea of Luke would've destroy the old text is just repulsive.Imagine if someone would burn the scrolls of the dead sea.Fortunately Rey stole the text, which felt like something they inserted in the eleventh hour to leave the option open.
If they really wanted the past to die they should stop using the starwars branding to promote it and use a different name but nope they want the fans to give up on the past of starwars while cashing in on the nostalgia
destroy the past is the message of Marxism. And each time it is tried it is tried with the prior failed attempts forgotten and unheaded so the future mass death misery is repeated with blindfold on.
See I myself took the "destroy the past" as a statement on the Jedi themselves not the study of the force or it's history but a destruction of the old orders (the Jedi and by rights the Sith as well) as they represent failures in understanding of the force and whos dogmas trap their followers in a cycle they're doomed to war over
I thought it was ridiculous that the First Order didn't attempt to send at least one of their star destroyers ahead of the Resistance ships to intercept them and put them in a pincer. Watching them slowly chase the Resistance in a straight line for half the film was not only boring, but tensionless as well.
Seriously, don't even begin to question it, you'll be there for days. We could talk about the fact that the 6+ SD's sat and did nothing in the intro as the Dreadnought was being blown up. We could talk about the fact that the First Order's fighters and bombers had *zero* reason to pull back from the cruiser, seeing as cruiser fire can't do anything against small craft without screening vessels or their own fighter support that they *didn't have*, especially when you consider that said fighters and bombers could apparently pierce the cruiser's shields with a single shot. The list just goes on and on and on...
The one thing that bothers me about the sequels so far is how they make it so characters with no formal training can just use the Force. It’d be fine if that’s the way it was portrayed all along, it’d be fine. But the prequels and originals stress that it HAS to be worked for. And yet, nobody has to now.
Also, if you're a man in the Star Wars universe now, the woman is always the one who has to rescue you from danger and has to lecture you on how to be a man. Those are the new rules and protocols according to Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars.
If that's true this film isn't following that rule- Reys entire storyline revolves around men and she doesn't really have an arc that doesnt revolve around Kylo, Luke, Finn and now maybe Poe.
You're equating force use with Jedi training they are NOT the same Anakin used the force well before he got any formal training. In fact I'd bet most (soon to be Jedi) used displays of force power that helped them get noticed (I bet some even used the old jedi mind trick to) Being a Jedi is vastly different to using the Force
Al Lefrancois You’re right about that, and I would have been fine with Rey demonstrating simple things like precognitive abilities and reflexes similar to Anakin and Luke did, but both men needed training to perform Jedi Mind Tricks and levitate objects, not to mention learn how to use a Lightsaber before using it in direct combat.
You have jinxed it, next episode will have a Darth Jar-Jar with his apprentice Snoke ( with the Darth maul spider body of course ) Kylo will then come out of the closet as Bisexual and will enter into a four way relationship with Finn, Rey, and Poe. Finn will then shoot Rose in order to get her out of the way. Luke will then teleport onto the Falcon revealing that he's not dead but simply a super human. Also then the four way relationship will go and Kill Jar-Jar and Snoke but wait the big twist comes and Luke reveals that he is the big bad guy and resurrects Palpatine and Vader to fight them except wait big twist rey invents a new force power that insta kills all three and instead of the movie ending there a bunch of other meaningless porg humor happens and Chewbacca becomes a vegan and starts dating del torro's character and they adopt obi wans illegitimate great grandson. ( also Finn goes at some point to cantobite for a bit and frees all horse things in roses memory then shoots the midget for fun) Finally the movie ends with all the characters making a bunch of BS obvious social commentary and since it's a long time ago Rey predicts Harvey Weinstien and Bill Cosbey. Also as it ends Luke comes back as a ghost being secretly a good guy all along. Also Disney then proceeds to strong Rotton tomatoes by freezing any rating bellow 80% and all critics, media outlets, politicians from all parties, and Disney executives proudly proclaim to the world that if you dont absolutely love the film your a racist sexiest uncultured animal with no respect for quote " creative vision "
I find it ironic that one of the themes for this movie is "letting go of the past", yet all this movie (and the rest of the new Di$ney Star Wars) does is resurrect themes, story lines, characters from the Original Trilogy -- which was over 30 years ago. That doesn't sound like "letting of the past" to me. Sounds like the complete opposite.
You do realize that the people saying let the past die are wrong, right? The theme is to say you should remember the past, but that you shouldn't let it dictate how you view the future.
So many. The film boggles the mind and crushes the heart, all while offering up the vaguest sense of potentially good ideas, held just out of reach on a rusted platter.
As do I. I got it on audiobook, and I’ve always felt that the Star Wars audiobooks were the only ones to pull off the blend of narration and active audio, the snap hiss of lightsabers and the sound of blasters, etc. The section with Obi wan on, Utapau I think it was, was particularly memorable.
I saw that recently JJ did have outlines for episode 8&9 and rian johnson chose to ignore it and write the last jedi which explains the lack of cohesiveness between TFA & TLJ
You said you liked the scene when Admiral Holdo took the Raddus and ran it through the other ships. I actually hated that, because if that is how hyperspace works, why didn't they take down ISDs in the original trilogy just by running X-wings into them? Why not run a CR90 into the Death Star? It totally makes all other battle plans useless, as well as the idea of having shields and lasers. Don't you think?
Reti4 - It still doesn't make any sense within the context of this scene, but the way I rationalise it in general is the same for why fleets don't just scatter into hyperspace whenever a battle isn't going their way in the first place. I imagine that making the jump takes an enormous amount of power that is otherwise spent on weapons systems, sublight engines and, most importantly, shields. If a ship starts prepping a jump then the enemy fleet would just focus fire on it and and pierce its vastly weakened defenses and blow it to pieces. There are a million other factors that make cruiser ramming unfeasible both on a tactical level and a strategic one, but that's the main thing that comes to mind.
There's a bigger logic problem with the weaponisation of hyperspace. Hyperspace is how you travel lightyears between star systems at Faster Than Light (FTL) speeds without the pesky problem of colliding with planets and stars and other space debris . This can only work if your FTL mechanism makes your vehicle such that it does not interact with physical matter in normal space. Therefore FTL ramming and FTL travel mechanisms are mutually exclusive concepts in any one universe, fictional or otherwise. Except when you're a shit writer who's too lazy to ground your universe in coherent rules, when your crappy plot demands something happens and you can't easily think of a good way to get there. Johnson has tried to justify it as a desperate spur of the moment tactic by Holdo, and not a known space combat manoeuvre. That's bullshit for the above reason, plus people in the SW universe have had FTL travel for hundreds if not thousands of years, and if it was a possibility, the military commanders, scientists or FTL engineers would have thought of and used it as a weapon already. And if by some chance nobody in all this past has tried it before, it will invalidate all future space battles. Just use lots of hard to shoot down hyperspace fighters (eg X-Wings) or even AI /droid/autopilot hyperspace drones as weapons. This is exactly why credible fictional universe building takes time and is bloody hard work. Johnson, and Abrams to a lesser extent in TFA, couldn't be bothered to do that work. They both string together "cool" set pieces with the bare minimum of connective plot, surrounded by glossy production values and usually a great cast. It's made Abrams a rich man, but his films are mostly depthless. Enjoyable for a mindless watch and the acting performances, but ultimately not very satisfying.
Why the hell don't they use FTL ramming every time? Why waste time/resources with space combat if every cruiser with a working hyperdrive is a WMD? You could make ships expressly designed for the purpose of FTL ramming other ships. The First Order could win instantaneously in the next film with ONE Star Destroyer.
Very happy to see everyone together for a video! My biggest takeaway from this film was that I love the EU, and am going to dive back into my EU stories.
Many always bash the prequels but for me they were still enough to make me a fan. They really spoke to my imagination and they really drew me in. They had powerful moments that got me thinking and characters I really felt for. Maybe not everything was done in the most efficient way possible but it had a real sense of fantasy and power to it. This feels like a standard action movie.
Reti4 - The prequels re-written with most of the material kept, just shunted to the left or right a bit depending on the scenes in question, would be masterpieces. I don't think any amount of re-writing could fix the new "Trilogy". The things wrong with the new films are so much more fundamental than the Prequels. They're not telling an interesting story, they don't have any real themes, they don't have any actual characters and they have no cohesive part to play in the saga as a whole. The complete and utter lack of any world building is also crippling.
The main thing is that I was actually quite turned off by the trailers and not for plot reasons. I never had a overly strong connection with the OT to begin with. It was actually the visuals. It just didn't have that sense of wonder, lore and immersion that Star Wars has always given me. It just looked like a standard action movie, it reminded me more of transformers than anything else. It was that, that made me move from Star Wars towards MLP that had that sense of wonder and of a actually fantasy society in it. I just didn't see the issues of the prequels that much either. Many say episode 1 is too complicated but I never found it hard to follow. The evil federation invades a peaceful planet and they need to go. The heroes go and get help from the republic and when that fails they team up with the locals and kick them out themselves. Seems pretty straightforward to me. As an 8 year old boy I loved those politics because I could actually understand them. I also didn't see Anakin as overly whiny either. Just the normal confusion any adolescent goes through. I don't blame him for being somewhat exasperated with Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan more or less states that he doesn't trust him and is constantly criticizing him and hammering in every lesson. I do think he needs it and Obi-Wan is in the right but I do understand why he would feel like Obi-Wan doesn't approve of anything he does. The only time I found him somewhat whiny was actually in the third movie when he complained about not being a master. I was fully with Obi-Wan when he tells Anakin he should be honored and he is in no position to complain. He has just been granted something that should be decades away from him and he complaints about not getting the full package? I really love how the prequels sort of mixed the American civil war and Hitler's rise to power while making it feel completely natural.
I just don't feel George Lucas failed. He got across what he wanted to get across. Was there ways he could have made it smoother and stronger? Sure there were but I was never really lost in what I was supposed to think and I always felt for every scene. I do agree that some moments were kind of awkward and some a little out of nowhere but never to the point where it truly caught me off guard. I think the only thing in which he somewhat failed was that he tried to cram too much into too little time. The prequels should have been as long as the Lord of the Rings movies. I don't know if that was the case with you but with me they really were sort of seen as rivals. The prequels were never as hated in my country.
That's Luuuuuuuke Skywalker. The real Luke went into the Unknown Regions to stop the evil Palpatine sensed. See? Even half-joking fans can think of a more interesting setup...
I have a friend that said that was the most fun he had in a star wars movie to date..... It made me ask him: 'did you even watch the Original Trilogy?'
If Tycho girl's death was supposed to be dramatic, it should've happened in a way that didn't involve bombs falling "downward" in space. That was the second "What the absolute fuck?" moment in the movie, the first being the dire opening crawl followed immediately by a vaudeville routine. And the movie just got worse from there.
And is putting someone on hold even a thing in Star Wars? What kind of idiot writer breaks the fourth wall in the first moments of the movie during what's set up as a dramatic existential battle?
Re: Luke & Ben's turning point, even Mace Windu wouldn't have said to himself, "He's too dangerous to be left alive!" and pulled out his saber to kill a sleeping student. Granted, there is an EU precedent in the KOTOR. watch circle and their padawan massacre - but they were deeply flawed by their own obsessions. We see nothing to set up how Luke Skywalker would've become that warped before the moment when he snapped.
Re: the lightspeed suicide, why didn't one of the other rebel ships do that instead of just running out of gas and drifting impotently into kill range? Why not just have droid crews that do this fleet killing maneuver in every battle? I makes no sense.
Lastly, re: the slave boy at the end, he casually pulls the broomstick to him with telekinesis, so he's just like Rey now. This is how the Disney Force works: there's no arduous training required; it's not, as Qui-Gon says, a hard life; you just "awaken" to the Force one day and everything is handed to you. The good nrws is you don't have to resist the quick and easy path of the dark side, because now the light side is even quicker and easier! The Disneyverse is an alternate universe, full stop.
fairytalejedi FTJ It's my general understanding that the bombs were forced down out of the ship. I came to the same conclusion with there being definite precedent for what Luke almost did to Kylo, but I will take it one step further and say there is precedent for Luke snapping like that. Let's not forget the reason he almost killed the father he wanted to do badly save was because of the threat to his Sister. If he, or anyone really was hit with a vision of the person in front of him destroying everything he loved, everything he had worked to achieve... well i think it's actually a great deal of progress shown that he didn't follow through on that strike
Sazzaran! Still playing Overwatch? We'll have to jump on and play some time if so. My friends still laugh at that moment. I'm glad the change is a positive one for you, thanks.
The new canon established it takes training to get credible control of the force, but here comes Rey even if she has raw potential she can't be Rotj Luke level so fast.
I would love to see you guys have an discussion about if the Disney buyout of Star Wars have been a net good or bad for Star Wars (in a whole not just movies, but extended EU and games and all that)
These are the people JJ needs to run preliminary versions of ep 9 by... Well read fans, with clear grasps on how to tell stories and make moments meaningful.
Man it's good to see you all in a video together again, and the analysis was pretty much spot on! Will be looking out for more videos from the Forecast!
Glad to BE back, we've been working on our plans for Fanalysis for over a year now, we're looking forward to seeing what people think. Content will be up within the next 24 hours.
If this film didn't have Star Wars I.P. pasted on it, it would have bombed so hard that it would have made Valerian seem like a blockbuster. TLJ Box office is running 50% lower than TFA-- and that's without adjusting 4% for inflation.
well, it's good to see more from you guys, y'all are the only thing keeping me interested in Star Wars at this point (nice beard Reti/Callan) and I don't think I'm going to watch episode 9 at the moment, (my apologies to whatever poor soul has to write the script for that) the only Star Wars content I still have interest in after watching this movie (Snoke's death was stupid, planet Vegas was a complete and total waste of screen-time, the movie felt like this should've been episode 9, and I have ZERO interest in an entire trilogy formatted like this) is legends, and I can't find most of the stories that pique my interest for a decent price.
sjaws99 I've been on the same road for the past year now ever since Rogue One. The current canon of Star Wars just hasn't been interesting for me besides a handful of books, comics, and scenes. I've been working towards rereading old Dark Horse graphic novels and catching up on some that I had missed out on. Same for books as well. For every canon book that I buy/read I purchase 3-5 Legends materials. The paperback versions are incredibly cheap: upwards to $8 US dollars. I've also been revisiting old Star Wars games such as The Force Unleashed and playing ones that I missed out on such as KOTOR I/II (both are absolutely spectacular with storytelling that better than any Star Wars movie I've seen [although I would say that KOTOR II has some slower pacing] and while the graphics haven't aged well with time that's what mods are for). I've got the Republic Commando books at the top of my to-read list and afterwards who knows? Perhaps the NJO or LOTF? I've avoided those quite some time, but after reading the Jedi Academy Trilogy and the side-story of _I_ , _Jedi_ that detail the start of Luke's Jedi Academy, perhaps those series could help to provide a comparison to the ST?
Nice to see the Forecast back. And awesome, look Reti4. And you guys branching into new things? Sign me up. Where do I start with The Last Jedi. You may be disappointed in that I DON"T hate this movie. I haven't seen it again and my thoughts might change. But, as a sequel to The Force Awakens it is piss poor. And I hate saying this as I love Rian Johnson. Really, the same director who did Looper and Brick wasn't with this movie. Everyone's assessment of Luke I could understand, but for me beyond agreeing with Antoine's point of the show don't tell is that RJ killed Luke off. The scene was beautiful, but it pissed me off. LF withheld arguably the most popular character in the franchise and we only get to spend a single movie with him?! And he's crummy and miserable. Luke should have survived and episode nine should have begun with the start of his redemption. But by far my biggest gripe is what Jensaraai1 said: This ENITRE trilogy feels like a reset button, knocking the dominos back into place and stripping away any sense of victory from the OT characters. And for those who claim it is about the new generation, they are so wrong. You can have the new generation shine, BUT also take the older characters in a new direction. Legend of Korra did this, even if it was mixed. But really, for that reason; I refuse to see this ST as canon. It's an alternative timeline. Score: 70/100.
As for Rey, I like her more, but yes; she is a Mary Sue. Anyone who disagrees are just in denial. The ordinary backstory I didn't mind. A Skywalker or Solo could have worked, but really in my view that would have been tacked on. But the lack of explaination of her Force powers is bad. And don't tell me to wait until a final movie! That's just special pleading. Also, you want to know who is a BETTER take on Rey: Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn. Similiar backstories in that they are survivors and capable. BUT unlike Rey; Aloy has limitations and flaws. Her journey is compelling and the revelation for her origin was earned. Mainly, because many people cared about Aloy and saw her as a good character. And not essentially an ecapist fantasy aimed at females.
I asked three questions at completely different times and got answers to all of them. Just want to say that I very much appreciate your engagement with commenters and I thoroughly enjoy your council/Fanalysis videos. :)
Reti4 - We try to read as many people's comments as possible, I'm glad we managed to reply to all of yours. I can't promise we always will, but I can promise we will always try!
The Last Jedi was basically a Canon Dark Empire for me. It was "bold and different" I guess but that doesn't mean it was good. I didn't expect Luke to be an absolute dick but that doesn't mean it was a good decision.
Dark Empire, for me, was amazing in concepts, but lacking good dialogue and execution. I enjoyed the overall story, but so much of listening to the audiobook was spent cringing at the ridiculous lines the characters say. still not terrible tho
Dark Empire was my first step into the expanded universe but, I'd find a comparison preferable to stories like Knights Of The Old Republic 2 or a small number of expanded universe novels I have in my collection. It took me forever to finally get to check out the conclusion of Empire's End and frankly... wasn't worth the wait. I liked the film, I did take issue with a few things but, not quite the same way as the majority of comments go. I also admit I'm a little odd in where I would take things with the franchise as a whole...
I am so glad that y'all are pointing out something that hardly anyone else is. It was one of the main issues I had with the movie as it caused me to lose interest in the story as well as the characters from the opening scene. But I was starting to think I may be wrong about it cause no one else seemed to notice it or point it out in any of the many reviews and discussions. And the big problem I had with the movie was the flippant and often ridiculous way in which The First Order were portrayed. Hell, the first scene is Poe telling "yo momma" jokes to Hux, and let's not even go in to the 3 stooges routine they have him doing a little bit later in the movie. The First Order were made out to be bumbling clownish buffoons. Which is great if you're making a comedy but if you're making a Star Wars movie and want us to care and root for our hero's, you can't pit them against clowns and expect us to take it seriously and suspend our disbelief in order to think our protagonists are ever in any real danger. Hence we don't care.
Reti4 - It's definitely forced for nearly all of this film, no arguments from me there. It's most annoying when even the forced stuff is funny, but you can't appreciate it because you're immediately irritated that you were about to laugh in a moment that you should be doing anything but.
This film shows that you should never let Rian Johnson ANYWHERE near Star Wars ever again... and he's making an entire Trilogy, fuck! 1:51:20 And yet it gets worse.
Only some of them have been moved to private, the reason being that I really wasn't happy with their quality. I'm hoping to upload vastly improved versions at a later date.
Did Carrie Fisher do any filming for the 3rd movie before passing?? If not I’m not sure how they’re going to successfully explain how she somehow died off-screen...
“You can feed them anything!” Antione. You really can feed them anything no matter how low things get;it’s basically Diet Legends at this point. Why drink it’s less tasteless version then it’s more tasty counterpart? Sure it please the rest,but for people who really want a more new and different,it disappoints them.
So question for the Fanalysis team, was this rebranding and branching out into other franchises caused by the disappointment that is the Last Jedi, or other reasons?
Other reasons. We started talking about this a full year ago, we were just working out how we wanted to do it and prepping everything format-wise the last few months. We wanted to make sure we could guarantee content would be flowing before we launched, and figured The Last Jedi would make a good first day. Our minds were ever so slightly blown by what we got...
When I've heard you guys in the past I've agrred n disagreed at times, sometimes I've felt you were holding onto eu too hard n not allowing new stuff to shine cus of that....but in this case y'all are 100% on point. The last Jedi doesn't fit with anything they've set up in past movies including the force awakens. It's a mess. Phasma and snoke both have 0 point at this point. Lukes character makes 0 sense in this movie in comparison to who he was.
My brother said he was pieces of Luke's green lightsaber scattered around the island. Essentially it had been stripped for parts and repurposed for various machines he was making use of.
In movie 1 when Qui-Gon actually refuses to help the slaves that didn't bother me. They are hunted by the trade federation and are there with a lot of untrustworthy characters. The last thing that they should do then is stir up trouble and make themselves be known. Not to mention Tattoine is controlled by the hutts. The republic doesn't have any authority there and Qui-Gon is just 1 man. I don't see what he could have actually done. If anything I liked how he did seem sympathetic to the slaves but knew to keep his head down and keep his eyes on the mission. By the way he's talking it's obvious it's not a surprise for him and he knew that there would be slaves on a remote hutt world. To me at least it showed that the jedi are people and they have limits. I do think they put that scene of them talking about the suffering of the poor in it because so many people complained about it. I never saw the issue.
Reti4 - We recorded our thoughts on Rogue One before creating the Fanalysis channel. We may be uploading our previous material to the new channel in the future, but in the meantime, you can check out our thoughts over on Jensaarai1's channel: ua-cam.com/video/wprsESGfhZ8/v-deo.html
Pretty much agree with all of what you guys say. This films story is so shoddy. I took my 10 year old boy along hoping he would feel some of the magic I felt watching star wars as a kid- but it was embarrassing.
I've read the new canon Thrawn book, well the audio book, and I actually liked the story. I admit the parts with Pryce are kinda weak, but Thrawn himself is actually handled very well
I hope that it's good, I just know that it can never match the original Thrawn Trilogy for me and steered clear as a result. I'm glad people are getting some enjoyment out of it though.
Fanalysis I know it’s not Legends Thrawn, but this version is far better than the one in the Rebels TV show Like they handle Thrawn’s genius very well, and Vanto is also quite a good character. Sure he’s no Pellaeon, but he’s a good character to work with Thrawn Like I said, the parts with Pryce are kinda weak, but Thrawn I feel is handled well. And his rivalry/interactions with Night Swan were interesting Honestly, I say it’s worth a read. I did enjoy the Legends Thrawn Trilogy, But this book is the closest we are gonna get to Legends Thrawn and I feel it does him justice (at least far better justice than Rebels did). As a fan of Legends Thrawn, I enjoyed him here
Eh. I think Rebels Thrawn is fine in episodes where he is actually given stuff to DO and isnt simply letting events unfold. When he's matching wits with Hera or Kallus or leading the attack on the Rebel base, he's totally on form. It's only in those other episodes where they are just padding things out that his portrayal becomes a problem.
Jonathan Campbell They can't have the real Thrawn in Rebels, he would wipe the floor whit them and the series would end right there and then, so they had to dumb him down.
Indeed! We're glad people seem to like the idea of more diverse content, we're excited to bring it to you. First videos will be up in the next 24 hours.
Great! You guys were always one of my fav podcasts (or videos lol) and yeah I'd love to hear what you think on all the other franchises out there! Side note since it came up in the video, but oh gosh. I may skip the LOK one, just cause i REALLY love that show. I know it's flawed lol, but still. I just like to stay positive on that particular franchise. But I'll watch all the other vids! :) for sure!
Oh no fear, we all love Legend of Korra too. Those episodes will definitely not be negative in tone, there's just a lot to talk about on both sides of the spectrum, that's all.
Boy, it took me almost a week and a half to watch all of this. It felt like I was watching the Titanic because it took so long. Agreed on all accounts. This movie was like a bag of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans where you got things that look good but part of the time it turns out to be garbage or at the very least meh. I can't really say more because my comment would probably reach beyond the character length. I'm not too disappointed about the Tales of the Jedi troubleshooting because I wasn't looking forward to that as I was to KOTOR or other works that you had listed. But I'll watch your episode all the same. Maybe it'll get me to reading that comic series again. I for one am *not* looking forward to J.J. Abrams directing 9. His track record of directing movies have been fanfilms or homages to previous works. I would much rather have him be seated as a producer because he's really good at that job with a list of movies that he's been a part of. I'm also really hesitant on Rian Johnson having his own trilogy of movies separate from the main story. I wouldn't know what to expect from him with that much responsibility. The Mace Windu comics have not been that great either for me. GreyJedi91, I want to hear your notes on it to compare with mine. Going by the movies this was strike 2 for Star Wars. Rogue One was a bunt that only really allowed up to first base. I'l have to wait and see if Han Solo will be strike three. I don't really care about the current expanded universe of material out there, but it's possible that if the films don't fulfill me then the rest of the EU could pick up the pieces. The old canon actually has currently been doing that for me as I've been going back to reading stuff that I had missed and playing KOTOR. So, when the current canon of Star Wars fails then I'll have that to go back to. You put Rey in a Vs series, she'll win because her secret power is that she can influence the plot to demand her to win!
The thing almost seems like a Star Wars roleplay. I love doing roleplays and I even turn some of them into fanfictions but that does require some serious restructuring. It is always fun to see what people can come up with and in what kind of weird directions it can go. But you can do that because there are no consequences and once the RP is finished you just start a new one.
1:40:20 "I've only felt this darkness once before. it didn't scare me enough then. it does now." I think he WAS referring to the Emperor. Yoda said in ESB "You will be [afraid]...You _will_ be...". I think this is a direct reference to that. I know he seems like he's talking about Kylo, but I think he's talking about The Emperor. He senses the darkness he sensed in the Emperor in Rey, and that's an unextinguishable flame.
This movie killed Star Wars for me far more than the prequels. What's worse, is that the corpse of Star Wars will keep stumbling around, year after year, until the box office returns finally die.
The prequels were terrible films, but they gave us so much of what we know as Star Wars despite that, the phenomenal music, the wealth of a foundation for the setting that spun into so many varied stories and characters etc. These new films actively destroy everything we know and love about the Star Wars setting and don't even attempt to replace what they burn away.
Exactly. These movies have no lore. The New Republic? A complete non-entity. The new Jedi Order? Wiped out. The First Order? Still using the same stuff as the Empire, just bigger. Star Wars needed a "Kevin Feige." Someone to oversee the universe, and make sure it's handled respectfully. George Lucas himself would have been great for that job, just keep him out of the directors chair.
I'm sick of having to defend the Prequels from people who have no idea how brilliant they were! Prequel-bashing is getting old and stale! It's time for you Prequel-haters to stop complaining about how your childhoods were ruin all because Lucas had the guts to expand the Star Wars universe. People like to blindly bash these amazing movies like it's some popular trend or something, but if it weren't for the Prequels, Star Wars as we know it would have been an out-dated series from the 80's. It took Lucas's grand vision to resurrect and expand the saga to even more depth. That's something Di$ney can never ever do in a trillion years. Plus, if it weren't for the Prequels and the EU, this channel along with the other members of the Forcecast wouldn't really exist for what they're famous for since the Lightsaber form/versus videos were inspired by material from the Prequels/EU itself.
drksideofthewal I mean the whole thing about Luke creating the New Jedi Order isnt a new idea, they could have easily done this but instead made him a dooku-like hermit who hates the force and hates himself ENTIRELY different from what ANY other canon source relates to
I don't think the prequels really damaged SW that much. While they are far from perfect by themselves they didn't introduce that many problematic things. A lot of the stuff that they did add actually was good material to build on for later. I actually felt those midichlorians were really fascinating and especially when Plagious was brought into that.
I often come back to the Council's old SW videos (Dark Lord books, these movie reviews, etc), and I realised something about Antoine's reviews. He's far more visceral when it comes to what he looks at as being good/bad moments in the films. While the other four each had their moments of "if I only take this as part of this film, I liked it. As part of a SW film in the SW verse, no," while Antoine often added his own inner explanations to add gravitas or enjoyability to a scene. He does this with the Leia/Mary Poppins part. Now, while he does admit a few times this is what he does, he doesn't then separate these inner jumps to look at a scene without his own added stuff.
@@blaynerotycoon8821 They really are awesome. It doesn't matter if I know the video off by heart, or I disagree with their views (see the Revan moment in the Palpatine video), I still adore coming back to these vids.
You know, I read an article somewhere (and this being the internet, I tried fact-checking, but couldn't find any other confirmation) that Leia was written out of episode IX due to Carrie's passing. So, I went into this movie expecting Leia to die. (After Abrams said before Episode VII, "Leia's not a jedi but she's still force-sensitive," I am glad this movie addresses that...even if the scene was clunky in its execution). Also, because of how anti-climactic the actual duel was (gorgeously shot, just not a lot of substance), I consider this movie's lightsaber duel Kylo and Rey vs the Praetorians. Which, I felt was a cool sequence. I thought the Praetorians were a cool design, I liked the weapons. Although I felt the sequence was too brief. I noticed something as well. Snoke. Kylo Ren. Just something interesting I noticed; they're acolytes of the Dark Side, but they aren't Sith Lords (they don't have Sith titles).
Snoke was doing the same trick Luke was doing at the end of the film - Snoke was Force projecting and is alive and well hanging with Phasma... think about it.... here comes the J.J. twist in the third film
I'd buy it if we didn't have the lingering shot on Snoke's corpse, very much sliced to pieces. Entirely possible given this abominable trilogy's quality, but it would be completely ridiculous if they took that route.
some one came up with a funny idea he was obviously joking that episode nine basically would retcon this movie by having Luke wake up from a Vision with Rey still in front of him :P that'd be hilarious but itd be such a collosal waste of time
One thing I never understood was the hate towards Jar Jar. He did have a few funny scene's and I really liked his design and his reactions. Him being made general was kinda off but I was actually glad he was so incompetent. They set up that he's incompetent and they follow through on it.
marinus18 My head Canon is Jar Jar is Darth Plagueis in desiguse to give Darth Sidouis emergency powers because he knew it would be his downfall as well to keep an eye on Anakin because a part of him feels the need to protect his "son" but he can't interfer with the Force to much.
There is a conspiracy theory making the rounds that Mark Hamill did not know that he was going to die in this film and that's why he died in that rather awkward particular manner- apparently he was looking incredibly shocked after seeing the premiere. He also openly said that he preferred Colin Treverrows take on Luke and that it was more in line with how he saw the character.
m.ua-cam.com/video/FntZKz9fXp8/v-deo.html If the link doesn't work just search "Mark Hamill didn't know " It is just a theory at this point, but it would honestly make sense if nothing else
Another question. How do you guys feel about a role-play played between you guys? A star wars one would be obvious but maybe something like a D&D campaign could be fun. Schedules seem difficult as they are but I thought I'd ask as you guys seem to enjoy talking with each other and creating chemistry.
Reti4 - We definitely want to do it, and if we do it'll most likely be D&D. I have my own setting that I run a campaign in for some friends one weekend every month or so. I'm also hoping to do some videos on that in the future. If you look closely, you can *just* see a Beholder floating in the channel banner next to Appa. :)
Fanalysis Brilliant to hear. I'll be looking forward to that. Could I ask what kind of videos you were thinking of? It'll give me another reason to visit your channel.
Reti4 - Various types. Lore videos for my setting, character videos for NPC's and Player characters and actual footage of us playing. The main problem I have with this at the moment, and the reason you won't be seeing these for a while, is that I need artwork for everything.
Set aside that the light speed crash scene was awesome. How come there aren't weapons like light speed catapults that just throw giant steel balls at ships or something like that. I was baffled that it worked that way even if it seemed logical. Just something to think about ...
The whole kamikaze jump to hyperspace scene looked awesome and all but can someone explain to me why this doesn't happen every space battle. Why not do this against the death star or something? Im confused..
Luke's insight into the truth of Vader helps return Anakin to the light and defeats the Emperor. His insight has served him well at every major decision. Then comes Ben; his own nephew, except when Luke looks at him through the Force-using his feelings, his insight-he sees only darkness. Now, Luke's trusted instincts are telling him to strike Ben down for the good of the future, in the same way his damaging trip to Bespin was ultimately a good thing, and to ignore the advice of his Jedi Masters and reach out to Vader was a good thing. Luke, of course, realizes his mistake; that his instincts have been clouded, but by then it's too late. I'd argue that Luke in the flashback does what Luke has always done as a hero of the Rebellion and a Jedi Knight: he trusts his instincts. And they led him wrong, hence retreating into exile unable to trust his insight any more and in an emotional crisis.
Looking good Reti4, thought you were infinity war captain America 😂 very slick 👌🏻 I went into this movie with little expectation, but still came out very underwhelmed. These two new saga films haven't impressed me and because of this I'm no longer looking forward to episode 9 and I'm certainly not counting down the days until Ryan Johnson's new trilogy is out, I've lost all interest.
Thanks very much Tom, I don't see the similarity myself but looking like Cap is no bad thing :). I'm right with you there, zero expectation outside of a solidly put together non-Star Wars film and they couldn't even give us that...
So expanding on the snoke giving rey the lightsaber thing the shit crashing into the star destroyer was the perfect way for rey and kylo to escape snoke. I feel like that could have been a good direction
Reti4 - Here's a thought. The film ends with Snoke leaning in, eyes wide in glee at the struggle between Rey and Ren (This point at the stage of the lightsabre tug of war) when the ship smashes into the dreadnought and we end on that exquisite shot. The next film opens with Rey coming to in a disoriented state, Snoke being evacuated (injured state) by the Praetorian guards and Hux standing in front of a barely stirring Ren with his pistol drawn. Rey saves Ren with a force push at Hux before carrying him out to a ship and to safety. The ease at which the Order were going to discard him being the wake up point that puts Ren into a state of self-questioning instability, followed by immense grief and guilt for Han, and then finally he arises Ben Solo once more. All while watching Luke train Rey, who is still ready and willing to fight the First Order and Snoke, her strength inspiring Ren and bringing him back from the edge.
Reti4 - They can't in any way that's worth doing unfortunately. They've run any idea of trilogic sequencing into the ground. They might manage to salvage the mess of a setting they've created in later films but it sure as hell isn't happening in the next one alone.
I recently rewatched it. Omg it's so much worse. It's the Character Assassination of Luke Skywalker like u all stated. It is probably my least favorite Star Wars movie now. It's worse than TFA.
I think while watching the beginning the part that made me scratch my head is why did the admiral of the dreadnought bomb the planet first?....wouldn't it make since to attack the fleet then the planet that way there is no escape for the planets forces if any remain I mean the resistance fleet wasn't moving since they were waiting on the transports and if you attacked and they left then you have transports you can capture and interrogate as well execute if need be later on
Every SW fan should be questioning why these decisions were made. Could Kathleen be a Sith? She bided her time for 40 years, got control of LucasFilm, and then proceeded to destroy everything good about SW. It didn't have to be that way. The original cast didn't need to be treated like crap. Young and old fans could have all been satisfied. It really is rather twisted stuff.
Hold on Reti, what do you mean by Prequel Yoda, the rather unfortunately lit puppet in Phantom Menace of the amazing CGI Yoda from Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith?
Reti4 (or should I say Fanalysis???) has a beard? Also, I couldn't find this because of the channel change. I have not seen any spoilers because I don't want to have any bias going into this film. Ill be seeing this in theaters within the next week (got finals right now). But I'm calling it now, if they killed off Han in the last film, then Luke and Leia are going to die. Also, have a feeling Kylo and Rei will have some form of sexual attraction with each other. Pray that the soundtrack is really good because its Star Wars and John Williams. Looking forward to this channel and what's coming up next!!!
This 3-hour festivity ended my run of watching discussion videos on the Last Jedi. Have the same mentality as you guys going forward now with the movies. I did not have any prior expectations going into the TLJ: did not watch/read any theories for over a year, only saw one trailer. Now I do not feel like watching any speculation/theory video for Ep9 at this point. I simply do not get what NEW story they are trying to tell. Soo confusing.. The movie itself was...gripping and entertaining. But even during the entertaining parts, the best way to describe my mental state would be to establish a link to TeamFourStar's Vegeta in the Broly parody: "This is so cool, but so dumb". I guess I am, according to critics, too much of a cynic. Anyway, good to have the Council back on my screen.
The only thing that is gripping and entertaining is watching reviewers picking up every single retarded choice taken in this shit heap of a movie. There's literally NOTHING going for, unless you're a mentally challenged corporate slave.
I think my views can be summarised thusly: Force Awakens made me angry. The Last Jedi made me sad. Also, the porgs are the best thing to come out of this franchise.
Reti4 - Agreed. Though my sadness has a heaping pile of bafflement thrown on top smothering any emotional impact I may have felt. Also, I thoroughly dislike the porgs.
Maybe it was the sense that there were some things in the movie that could have worked but just didn't. Maybe it was the fact that this film instilled in me the knowledge of this what we have now. It's here top stay and that took all the fight out of me. It changed me so that I just want to ignore the new films and go find some of the better new books and content coming out. Also, I'm actually interested why you dislike the porgs. I'll admit, the practical effects they used was really quite jarring sometimes, which is actually present in the new trilogy quite a bit so far. It could be the fact that I'm just more susceptible to having my heart melted in the way they did. Plus, the comedy with them mostly got off without a hitch, which can't really be said about the rest of the jokes in the movie. I just spent a paragraph defending a fictional animal in a film that I rather dislike. Wow.
I think the title "last jedi" might actually mean that Luke will be the last jedi. That Rey won't remake the jedi at all. Maybe the 9th will be something like a new beginning.
One issue that I have with it that nobody else seems to have is the lack of species in it. One thing I always liked about Star Wars and what I like more in the prequels is the amount of non-human species and how they live in that world. Nobody is batting an eye and it's only extremist idiots who make an issue of it. The prequels the Gungans, the Kaminoins, the utapoans, Paltapine's advisor, the Geonosians and countless others in the senate and jedi counsel. Even the originals with their limited technological capability had Yoda, Chewie, Ackbar, that Solstian in the falcon (don't know his name), the Ewoks, Jabba the Hutt, Twilecks and countless other sentient non-human races. The non-humans here all have very minor roles or are barely there.
Tbh the only thing that made me happy in this movie was Rey's character. I don't like how she knew everything she was seeing either and how she could instantly control her abilities. But I did like the role she played, she just got stuck with a very bad version of Luke (not saying Mark Hamill is bad, just what they gave him was). I liked her connection with Kylo and while the fight with the guards might've overestimated her in the SLIGHTEST. it was very entertaining.
Reti4 - Rey's "Character". I completely get what you mean though, I really like the cores of all the characters they've given us, they've just either completely misused them (Hux) or given us *nothing* on top of their enjoyable base personalities (Rey, Finn, Po, Rose, Leia etc...) Ren was the same but in this last movie they did attempt to give him SOME development, even that falls flat on its face writing-wise though. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley have breathed so much life into their characters that wouldn't be there otherwise.
It didn't help that they practically brushed away such anticipating things fans of the seventh movie wanted like who Snoke was for example and the unneeded comedy. I definitely like the idea where Kylo is going but I'd rather have them waited til the 9th episode let that hate and conflict fester and keep Snoke around. I felt what they did with Finn was pointless honestly and I felt really bad for both Rose and him. Po,Rey and Kylo in my opinion are the only characters that actually went somewhere in the movie whether it would be poorly executed or an idea they're poking at us. And I loved Hux in the seventh film and to see him be treated like a common officer, like something off of Rebels really hurt.
Fanalysis Agreed. It's just odd that is has these many issues on several independent levels - especially given that Disney seemed so confident in RJ that they gave him a whole new trilogy. Thanks for all the replies, btw!
But people hats on the the prequel movies ): this movie made my head hurt. So in the clone wars We’ll trained Jedi fight in space with helmets but Leia can just survive in space yeah sure. I swear the first order must have been stupid my goodness. I didn’t care about anybody in the movie smoke was just sitting in a chair cool smh. Captain plasma pulling out a stick finally doing something but does quickly oh my gosh.worst starwars movie made. My favorite part was them showing how strong Luke could use the force at the end of the movie. I was just thinking when will this movie end. A freaking soccer ball ): . I had to watch starwars revenge of the sixth right after when I got home to see some real starwars action.
This is why revenge of the south will always be my favorite starwars movie good action, deaths of people we cared about, good lightsaber battles.for example smoke was built up to be strong but we didn’t see him do anything. But death sidious we got to see in revenge of the sixth how strong he was. last Jedi all the characters sucked to me
I've seen a few more far-left-leaning reviewers enjoy the fact that the villains are weak, based on the fact that some far-right leaning people (usually on the internet) tend to un-ironically quote or emulate "cool" villains like Tyler Durden, The Joker etc. I'm pretty sure JJ Abrams has expressed similar if not quite identical sympathies in the past and one of the goals of these movies is obviously to increase representation for women and minorities (this might be why Rey and Finn are relatively speaking blank slates- it makes it easier to project your own feelings onto). In other words, I would not at all be surprised if the villains being weak is a deliberate choice representing the political views of the creators (much like Lucas saying that Palpatine was partly inspired by Nixon). The message being, Darth Vader (cool, efficient, machine like evil) does not exist, but Kylo Ren and General Hux do...and they are just as much of a murderous joke in real-life as they are in this movie, and need to be portrayed as such. Snoke then is just a stand-in for rich and powerful old guys who manipulate people like that, but in the end they are just as full of it as anyone themselves. Of course, this has the side-effect of potentially making the heroes look annoyingly incompetent if they are up against something pathetic yet still fail to stop them (probably why the First Order managed to conquer the galaxy entirely off-screen), which means that much of the drama has to come from infighting and pointless side-quests, while at the same time potentially undermining any actual achievements they DO manage since they are beating a bunch of clowns...but yeah, I think that this is the reasoning from a creative point of view. And from a studio point of view disposable villains and playing fast and loose with the lore probably makes each film more accessible to newcomers and easier to follow, and thus they are happy enough to go along with it. Thats my take on it anyway. I've got no doubt it's a deliberate choice at the very least.
Jonathan Campbell: I identify as left-wing, and I think the villains in TLJ suck. I don't think it looks like an ideological decision. More just like poor writing.
I also identify as left-wing, and I too think the villains suck. But I have heard left-wing people defend this movie and their villains on those grounds, that having competent or "cool" villains is a bad idea because there are trolls, idiots and extremists out there who like to emulate them, and that Kylo Ren and Hux work precisely because they suck.
Instead of fans coming up with Awesome fan theories....we should come up with as many shitty theories for Episode 9 as we can...perhaps JJ will see them and in his effort to trick us, he'll write a good story for Episode 9......? Maybe?
I feel like Luke throwing the lightsaber away at the start of the movie is a metaphor for what Disney has done, and is doing to Star Wars.
lmao
For sure. Though I will remind you, Disney aren't the ones ruining Star Wars, the Storygroup and Kathleen Kennedy are. If Disney were capable of wrecking characters the way Luke has been then the Marvel Cinematic Universe would have flopped from day one. Say what you will about the quality of the films, but they know how to work their characters.
Fanalysis That is very true. I wonder if SW would do better with a Kevin Feige type person. That’s supposed to be Kennedy. Clearly she makes business decisions, but I have seen no evidence of her making creative decisions. I would pick someone like James Luceno. A very creative person who takes the universe in a cohesive direction.
oh man, I'd be totally on board if we got a Star Wars Kevin Feige equivalent who was in charge. Maybe then the entire EU wouldn't have been gutted
Fanalysis Then why is she still in charge if she doesn’t care ?
The most bizarre thing in the movie(Outside of the Leia scene) is this "Let the past die" theme they shove down our throat, Because it is a stupid message!
If you destroy the past then how could you learn from its mistakes? and as someone who values history and historical artifacts, in general, the very idea of Luke would've destroy the old text is just repulsive.Imagine if someone would burn the scrolls of the dead sea.Fortunately Rey stole the text, which felt like something they inserted in the eleventh hour to leave the option open.
Indeed, we made mention of the meta message being sent somewhere in the review I believe. It's an insult to the fans for sure.
If they really wanted the past to die they should stop using the starwars branding to promote it
and use a different name
but nope they want the fans to give up on the past of starwars while cashing in on the nostalgia
destroy the past is the message of Marxism. And each time it is tried it is tried with the prior failed attempts forgotten and unheaded so the future mass death misery is repeated with blindfold on.
See I myself took the "destroy the past" as a statement on the Jedi themselves not the study of the force or it's history but a destruction of the old orders (the Jedi and by rights the Sith as well) as they represent failures in understanding of the force and whos dogmas trap their followers in a cycle they're doomed to war over
Ákos Kovács I saw it as a big middle finger to older fans honestly .
I thought it was ridiculous that the First Order didn't attempt to send at least one of their star destroyers ahead of the Resistance ships to intercept them and put them in a pincer. Watching them slowly chase the Resistance in a straight line for half the film was not only boring, but tensionless as well.
Yeah, don't get me started on the complete insanity of the "naval warfare" in this film. It's pathetic and insulting to watch to be honest.
Couldn't the First Order just FTL in range? Were they also low on fuel?
Seriously, don't even begin to question it, you'll be there for days. We could talk about the fact that the 6+ SD's sat and did nothing in the intro as the Dreadnought was being blown up. We could talk about the fact that the First Order's fighters and bombers had *zero* reason to pull back from the cruiser, seeing as cruiser fire can't do anything against small craft without screening vessels or their own fighter support that they *didn't have*, especially when you consider that said fighters and bombers could apparently pierce the cruiser's shields with a single shot. The list just goes on and on and on...
The one thing that bothers me about the sequels so far is how they make it so characters with no formal training can just use the Force.
It’d be fine if that’s the way it was portrayed all along, it’d be fine. But the prequels and originals stress that it HAS to be worked for. And yet, nobody has to now.
That would require emotional build up and philosophical introspection leading to triumphant pay offs, can't be having that now.
Also, if you're a man in the Star Wars universe now, the woman is always the one who has to rescue you from danger and has to lecture you on how to be a man. Those are the new rules and protocols according to Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars.
If that's true this film isn't following that rule- Reys entire storyline revolves around men and she doesn't really have an arc that doesnt revolve around Kylo, Luke, Finn and now maybe Poe.
You're equating force use with Jedi training they are NOT the same Anakin used the force well before he got any formal training. In fact I'd bet most (soon to be Jedi) used displays of force power that helped them get noticed (I bet some even used the old jedi mind trick to) Being a Jedi is vastly different to using the Force
Al Lefrancois You’re right about that, and I would have been fine with Rey demonstrating simple things like precognitive abilities and reflexes similar to Anakin and Luke did, but both men needed training to perform Jedi Mind Tricks and levitate objects, not to mention learn how to use a Lightsaber before using it in direct combat.
"The bar is in hell." -Reti4
Well, Episode IX can only go up from here. At least in theory.
roftl
This... Couldn't agree more
You know I thought after the force awakens things could only be better...they proved me wrong once,they will not do so again
You have jinxed it, next episode will have a Darth Jar-Jar with his apprentice Snoke ( with the Darth maul spider body of course ) Kylo will then come out of the closet as Bisexual and will enter into a four way relationship with Finn, Rey, and Poe. Finn will then shoot Rose in order to get her out of the way. Luke will then teleport onto the Falcon revealing that he's not dead but simply a super human. Also then the four way relationship will go and Kill Jar-Jar and Snoke but wait the big twist comes and Luke reveals that he is the big bad guy and resurrects Palpatine and Vader to fight them except wait big twist rey invents a new force power that insta kills all three and instead of the movie ending there a bunch of other meaningless porg humor happens and Chewbacca becomes a vegan and starts dating del torro's character and they adopt obi wans illegitimate great grandson. ( also Finn goes at some point to cantobite for a bit and frees all horse things in roses memory then shoots the midget for fun) Finally the movie ends with all the characters making a bunch of BS obvious social commentary and since it's a long time ago Rey predicts Harvey Weinstien and Bill Cosbey. Also as it ends Luke comes back as a ghost being secretly a good guy all along. Also Disney then proceeds to strong Rotton tomatoes by freezing any rating bellow 80% and all critics, media outlets, politicians from all parties, and Disney executives proudly proclaim to the world that if you dont absolutely love the film your a racist sexiest uncultured animal with no respect for quote " creative vision "
Nope Abrams is in charge of the next one .
I find it ironic that one of the themes for this movie is "letting go of the past", yet all this movie (and the rest of the new Di$ney Star Wars) does is resurrect themes, story lines, characters from the Original Trilogy -- which was over 30 years ago. That doesn't sound like "letting of the past" to me. Sounds like the complete opposite.
The Space Born And if it wasn’t for those older movies this would have never existed .
You do realize that the people saying let the past die are wrong, right? The theme is to say you should remember the past, but that you shouldn't let it dictate how you view the future.
Yep, TFA was mostly A New Hope 34 years later
The idea that TLJ felt like a story from an alternate dimension is so spot on! So many mixed feelings about this movie.
So many. The film boggles the mind and crushes the heart, all while offering up the vaguest sense of potentially good ideas, held just out of reach on a rusted platter.
I love RotS
I do too.
The book, the film or both? We like the film, for all it's many, *many* flaws, but the book is amazing.
kind of both, I love when in the novel Kenobi became the master of Soresu
both, I read the book in middle school and I've seen the film several times. It's my favorite of the series.
As do I. I got it on audiobook, and I’ve always felt that the Star Wars audiobooks were the only ones to pull off the blend of narration and active audio, the snap hiss of lightsabers and the sound of blasters, etc. The section with Obi wan on, Utapau I think it was, was particularly memorable.
I saw that recently JJ did have outlines for episode 8&9 and rian johnson chose to ignore it and write the last jedi which explains the lack of cohesiveness between TFA & TLJ
You said you liked the scene when Admiral Holdo took the Raddus and ran it through the other ships.
I actually hated that, because if that is how hyperspace works, why didn't they take down ISDs in the original trilogy just by running X-wings into them? Why not run a CR90 into the Death Star?
It totally makes all other battle plans useless, as well as the idea of having shields and lasers. Don't you think?
Reti4 - It still doesn't make any sense within the context of this scene, but the way I rationalise it in general is the same for why fleets don't just scatter into hyperspace whenever a battle isn't going their way in the first place. I imagine that making the jump takes an enormous amount of power that is otherwise spent on weapons systems, sublight engines and, most importantly, shields. If a ship starts prepping a jump then the enemy fleet would just focus fire on it and and pierce its vastly weakened defenses and blow it to pieces.
There are a million other factors that make cruiser ramming unfeasible both on a tactical level and a strategic one, but that's the main thing that comes to mind.
There's a bigger logic problem with the weaponisation of hyperspace. Hyperspace is how you travel lightyears between star systems at Faster Than Light (FTL) speeds without the pesky problem of colliding with planets and stars and other space debris .
This can only work if your FTL mechanism makes your vehicle such that it does not interact with physical matter in normal space. Therefore FTL ramming and FTL travel mechanisms are mutually exclusive concepts in any one universe, fictional or otherwise. Except when you're a shit writer who's too lazy to ground your universe in coherent rules, when your crappy plot demands something happens and you can't easily think of a good way to get there.
Johnson has tried to justify it as a desperate spur of the moment tactic by Holdo, and not a known space combat manoeuvre. That's bullshit for the above reason, plus people in the SW universe have had FTL travel for hundreds if not thousands of years, and if it was a possibility, the military commanders, scientists or FTL engineers would have thought of and used it as a weapon already. And if by some chance nobody in all this past has tried it before, it will invalidate all future space battles. Just use lots of hard to shoot down hyperspace fighters (eg X-Wings) or even AI /droid/autopilot hyperspace drones as weapons.
This is exactly why credible fictional universe building takes time and is bloody hard work. Johnson, and Abrams to a lesser extent in TFA, couldn't be bothered to do that work. They both string together "cool" set pieces with the bare minimum of connective plot, surrounded by glossy production values and usually a great cast. It's made Abrams a rich man, but his films are mostly depthless. Enjoyable for a mindless watch and the acting performances, but ultimately not very satisfying.
Eric Young Precisely.
Why the hell don't they use FTL ramming every time? Why waste time/resources with space combat if every cruiser with a working hyperdrive is a WMD? You could make ships expressly designed for the purpose of FTL ramming other ships. The First Order could win instantaneously in the next film with ONE Star Destroyer.
Very happy to see everyone together for a video! My biggest takeaway from this film was that I love the EU, and am going to dive back into my EU stories.
We're very happy to be back, I hope you enjoy the upcoming content.
Many always bash the prequels but for me they were still enough to make me a fan. They really spoke to my imagination and they really drew me in. They had powerful moments that got me thinking and characters I really felt for.
Maybe not everything was done in the most efficient way possible but it had a real sense of fantasy and power to it. This feels like a standard action movie.
Reti4 - The prequels re-written with most of the material kept, just shunted to the left or right a bit depending on the scenes in question, would be masterpieces. I don't think any amount of re-writing could fix the new "Trilogy". The things wrong with the new films are so much more fundamental than the Prequels. They're not telling an interesting story, they don't have any real themes, they don't have any actual characters and they have no cohesive part to play in the saga as a whole. The complete and utter lack of any world building is also crippling.
The main thing is that I was actually quite turned off by the trailers and not for plot reasons. I never had a overly strong connection with the OT to begin with. It was actually the visuals. It just didn't have that sense of wonder, lore and immersion that Star Wars has always given me. It just looked like a standard action movie, it reminded me more of transformers than anything else.
It was that, that made me move from Star Wars towards MLP that had that sense of wonder and of a actually fantasy society in it.
I just didn't see the issues of the prequels that much either. Many say episode 1 is too complicated but I never found it hard to follow. The evil federation invades a peaceful planet and they need to go. The heroes go and get help from the republic and when that fails they team up with the locals and kick them out themselves. Seems pretty straightforward to me. As an 8 year old boy I loved those politics because I could actually understand them.
I also didn't see Anakin as overly whiny either. Just the normal confusion any adolescent goes through. I don't blame him for being somewhat exasperated with Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan more or less states that he doesn't trust him and is constantly criticizing him and hammering in every lesson. I do think he needs it and Obi-Wan is in the right but I do understand why he would feel like Obi-Wan doesn't approve of anything he does. The only time I found him somewhat whiny was actually in the third movie when he complained about not being a master. I was fully with Obi-Wan when he tells Anakin he should be honored and he is in no position to complain. He has just been granted something that should be decades away from him and he complaints about not getting the full package?
I really love how the prequels sort of mixed the American civil war and Hitler's rise to power while making it feel completely natural.
I just don't feel George Lucas failed. He got across what he wanted to get across. Was there ways he could have made it smoother and stronger? Sure there were but I was never really lost in what I was supposed to think and I always felt for every scene. I do agree that some moments were kind of awkward and some a little out of nowhere but never to the point where it truly caught me off guard.
I think the only thing in which he somewhat failed was that he tried to cram too much into too little time. The prequels should have been as long as the Lord of the Rings movies. I don't know if that was the case with you but with me they really were sort of seen as rivals. The prequels were never as hated in my country.
1:49:26 Matt's impression of snoke is so spot on
So glad the Forcecast is back
Glad to *be* back! We've got a lot of content on the way and more coming after that so stay tuned, first videos will be up in the next 24 hours.
Unfortunately, Star Wars isn't back. It's gone forever!
That's Luuuuuuuke Skywalker. The real Luke went into the Unknown Regions to stop the evil Palpatine sensed.
See? Even half-joking fans can think of a more interesting setup...
Lu'uc Skywalker
Yeah this was Bizarro Luke .
I have a friend that said that was the most fun he had in a star wars movie to date.....
It made me ask him: 'did you even watch the Original Trilogy?'
Reti4 - No accounting for insanity I guess.
I would be like so I take it you like watching grass grow ?
If Tycho girl's death was supposed to be dramatic, it should've happened in a way that didn't involve bombs falling "downward" in space. That was the second "What the absolute fuck?" moment in the movie, the first being the dire opening crawl followed immediately by a vaudeville routine. And the movie just got worse from there.
And is putting someone on hold even a thing in Star Wars? What kind of idiot writer breaks the fourth wall in the first moments of the movie during what's set up as a dramatic existential battle?
Re: Luke & Ben's turning point, even Mace Windu wouldn't have said to himself, "He's too dangerous to be left alive!" and pulled out his saber to kill a sleeping student. Granted, there is an EU precedent in the KOTOR. watch circle and their padawan massacre - but they were deeply flawed by their own obsessions. We see nothing to set up how Luke Skywalker would've become that warped before the moment when he snapped.
Re: the lightspeed suicide, why didn't one of the other rebel ships do that instead of just running out of gas and drifting impotently into kill range? Why not just have droid crews that do this fleet killing maneuver in every battle? I makes no sense.
Lastly, re: the slave boy at the end, he casually pulls the broomstick to him with telekinesis, so he's just like Rey now. This is how the Disney Force works: there's no arduous training required; it's not, as Qui-Gon says, a hard life; you just "awaken" to the Force one day and everything is handed to you. The good nrws is you don't have to resist the quick and easy path of the dark side, because now the light side is even quicker and easier! The Disneyverse is an alternate universe, full stop.
fairytalejedi FTJ It's my general understanding that the bombs were forced down out of the ship. I came to the same conclusion with there being definite precedent for what Luke almost did to Kylo, but I will take it one step further and say there is precedent for Luke snapping like that. Let's not forget the reason he almost killed the father he wanted to do badly save was because of the threat to his Sister. If he, or anyone really was hit with a vision of the person in front of him destroying everything he loved, everything he had worked to achieve... well i think it's actually a great deal of progress shown that he didn't follow through on that strike
After seeing The Last Jedi I can conclude that it was... a movie.
Also Reti, didnt recognize you at all, in a good way.
Sazzaran! Still playing Overwatch? We'll have to jump on and play some time if so. My friends still laugh at that moment.
I'm glad the change is a positive one for you, thanks.
Havent played OW for a while but Im always up for a game or two :)
That was my exact reaction coming out of the theatre. And then me and my dad talked about it, and then the dark side rose in us both.
@@Racald A pretty shitty movie
The new canon established it takes training to get credible control of the force, but here comes Rey even if she has raw potential she can't be Rotj Luke level so fast.
she has no training. That's the point. Mary Sue at the finest level
I would love to see you guys have an discussion about if the Disney buyout of Star Wars have been a net good or bad for Star Wars (in a whole not just movies, but extended EU and games and all that)
These are the people JJ needs to run preliminary versions of ep 9 by... Well read fans, with clear grasps on how to tell stories and make moments meaningful.
Jesus Reti you look like a young Qui Gon Jinn
Reti4 - I'll take that. Not sure I see the resemblance at all, but I'll take it.
Fanalysis allow me correct myself you look like Liam neeson when he was in Rob Roy
The darkness of the Angsty Teenager scares Luke.
He was an innocent farm boy on the desert plains of Tatooine after all. Ben Solo's night is dark and full of terrors.
HAHAHAHAHA He the Night King! You know nothing, Luke skywalker. hahahahaha
August The Magic King wouldn’t Rey be Jon Snow )
Man it's good to see you all in a video together again, and the analysis was pretty much spot on! Will be looking out for more videos from the Forecast!
Glad to be back. We hope you enjoy the content to come.
I’m glad the forecast is back again
Glad to BE back, we've been working on our plans for Fanalysis for over a year now, we're looking forward to seeing what people think. Content will be up within the next 24 hours.
This film is good on its own. If you imagine it taking in a alternate universe from the original trilogy.
If this film didn't have Star Wars I.P. pasted on it, it would have bombed so hard that it would have made Valerian seem like a blockbuster.
TLJ Box office is running 50% lower than TFA-- and that's without adjusting 4% for inflation.
No, the movie is shit on its own because of how poorly written the plot and characters are.
well, it's good to see more from you guys, y'all are the only thing keeping me interested in Star Wars at this point (nice beard Reti/Callan) and I don't think I'm going to watch episode 9 at the moment, (my apologies to whatever poor soul has to write the script for that) the only Star Wars content I still have interest in after watching this movie (Snoke's death was stupid, planet Vegas was a complete and total waste of screen-time, the movie felt like this should've been episode 9, and I have ZERO interest in an entire trilogy formatted like this) is legends, and I can't find most of the stories that pique my interest for a decent price.
Nice to be back, I'm glad we can help fans keep holding on to the good stuff. Legends Archives will be continuing as well so look out for those.
I am, those episodes are part of how I figure out what I should check out. (p.s. do you have any recommendations for stories starring Kyle Katarn?)
sjaws99 I've been on the same road for the past year now ever since Rogue One. The current canon of Star Wars just hasn't been interesting for me besides a handful of books, comics, and scenes. I've been working towards rereading old Dark Horse graphic novels and catching up on some that I had missed out on. Same for books as well. For every canon book that I buy/read I purchase 3-5 Legends materials. The paperback versions are incredibly cheap: upwards to $8 US dollars. I've also been revisiting old Star Wars games such as The Force Unleashed and playing ones that I missed out on such as KOTOR I/II (both are absolutely spectacular with storytelling that better than any Star Wars movie I've seen [although I would say that KOTOR II has some slower pacing] and while the graphics haven't aged well with time that's what mods are for). I've got the Republic Commando books at the top of my to-read list and afterwards who knows? Perhaps the NJO or LOTF? I've avoided those quite some time, but after reading the Jedi Academy Trilogy and the side-story of _I_ , _Jedi_ that detail the start of Luke's Jedi Academy, perhaps those series could help to provide a comparison to the ST?
@@GAdmThrawn no comparison needed, we all know the superior sequel trilogy.
Nice to see the Forecast back. And awesome, look Reti4. And you guys branching into new things? Sign me up. Where do I start with The Last Jedi. You may be disappointed in that I DON"T hate this movie. I haven't seen it again and my thoughts might change. But, as a sequel to The Force Awakens it is piss poor. And I hate saying this as I love Rian Johnson. Really, the same director who did Looper and Brick wasn't with this movie. Everyone's assessment of Luke I could understand, but for me beyond agreeing with Antoine's point of the show don't tell is that RJ killed Luke off. The scene was beautiful, but it pissed me off.
LF withheld arguably the most popular character in the franchise and we only get to spend a single movie with him?! And he's crummy and miserable. Luke should have survived and episode nine should have begun with the start of his redemption. But by far my biggest gripe is what Jensaraai1 said: This ENITRE trilogy feels like a reset button, knocking the dominos back into place and stripping away any sense of victory from the OT characters. And for those who claim it is about the new generation, they are so wrong. You can have the new generation shine, BUT also take the older characters in a new direction.
Legend of Korra did this, even if it was mixed. But really, for that reason; I refuse to see this ST as canon. It's an alternative timeline. Score: 70/100.
As for Rey, I like her more, but yes; she is a Mary Sue. Anyone who disagrees are just in denial. The ordinary backstory I didn't mind. A Skywalker or Solo could have worked, but really in my view that would have been tacked on. But the lack of explaination of her Force powers is bad. And don't tell me to wait until a final movie! That's just special pleading. Also, you want to know who is a BETTER take on Rey: Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn.
Similiar backstories in that they are survivors and capable. BUT unlike Rey; Aloy has limitations and flaws. Her journey is compelling and the revelation for her origin was earned. Mainly, because many people cared about Aloy and saw her as a good character. And not essentially an ecapist fantasy aimed at females.
Neil iiii
Actually ill put korra over these movies by alot.
I asked three questions at completely different times and got answers to all of them. Just want to say that I very much appreciate your engagement with commenters and I thoroughly enjoy your council/Fanalysis videos. :)
Reti4 - We try to read as many people's comments as possible, I'm glad we managed to reply to all of yours. I can't promise we always will, but I can promise we will always try!
The Last Jedi was basically a Canon Dark Empire for me. It was "bold and different" I guess but that doesn't mean it was good. I didn't expect Luke to be an absolute dick but that doesn't mean it was a good decision.
Dark Empire wasn't the best the EU had to offer, but it wnt that bad.
Dark Empire, for me, was amazing in concepts, but lacking good dialogue and execution. I enjoyed the overall story, but so much of listening to the audiobook was spent cringing at the ridiculous lines the characters say. still not terrible tho
Do you like the Audio Drama or comic better?
Dark Empire was my first step into the expanded universe but, I'd find a comparison preferable to stories like Knights Of The Old Republic 2 or a small number of expanded universe novels I have in my collection. It took me forever to finally get to check out the conclusion of Empire's End and frankly... wasn't worth the wait.
I liked the film, I did take issue with a few things but, not quite the same way as the majority of comments go. I also admit I'm a little odd in where I would take things with the franchise as a whole...
@@sonic8005 I hope you went back on your steps to see what kind of disaster this really is. Because denying its massive problems is just delusional.
I am so glad that y'all are pointing out something that hardly anyone else is. It was one of the main issues I had with the movie as it caused me to lose interest in the story as well as the characters from the opening scene.
But I was starting to think I may be wrong about it cause no one else seemed to notice it or point it out in any of the many reviews and discussions.
And the big problem I had with the movie was the flippant and often ridiculous way in which The First Order were portrayed. Hell, the first scene is Poe telling "yo momma" jokes to Hux, and let's not even go in to the 3 stooges routine they have him doing a little bit later in the movie.
The First Order were made out to be bumbling clownish buffoons. Which is great if you're making a comedy but if you're making a Star Wars movie and want us to care and root for our hero's, you can't pit them against clowns and expect us to take it seriously and suspend our disbelief in order to think our protagonists are ever in any real danger. Hence we don't care.
Can you guys please review 1-6 the way you review these movies?
We will definitely be going through the originals and prequels at some point, just a matter of when.
I have a hunch Rion Jonson likes animals, like a lot.
Yeah, I do find the creatures a lot more endearing in this film, than the previous films.
TBH if theres no more jedi, thats it for SW for me. Like wtfs the point of SW without jedi vs sith.
finally, someone else other than me has pointed out Disney's "forced comedy" , thank you Antoine ~
Reti4 - It's definitely forced for nearly all of this film, no arguments from me there. It's most annoying when even the forced stuff is funny, but you can't appreciate it because you're immediately irritated that you were about to laugh in a moment that you should be doing anything but.
This film shows that you should never let Rian Johnson ANYWHERE near Star Wars ever again... and he's making an entire Trilogy, fuck!
1:51:20 And yet it gets worse.
How can you not hate this movie?
If you don't mind me asking Reti, why are all your VS Videos set to private now? I really liked them.
Only some of them have been moved to private, the reason being that I really wasn't happy with their quality. I'm hoping to upload vastly improved versions at a later date.
Did Carrie Fisher do any filming for the 3rd movie before passing?? If not I’m not sure how they’re going to successfully explain how she somehow died off-screen...
Apparently, Abrams is gonna use unused footage from TFA for The Rise of Retcons. Pitiful.....
Absolute madness that you're back! Looking forward to new uploads!
Glad to be back! The first few videos will be up in the next 24 hours.
“You can feed them anything!” Antione.
You really can feed them anything no matter how low things get;it’s basically Diet Legends at this point.
Why drink it’s less tasteless version then it’s more tasty counterpart?
Sure it please the rest,but for people who really want a more new and different,it disappoints them.
So question for the Fanalysis team, was this rebranding and branching out into other franchises caused by the disappointment that is the Last Jedi, or other reasons?
Other reasons. We started talking about this a full year ago, we were just working out how we wanted to do it and prepping everything format-wise the last few months. We wanted to make sure we could guarantee content would be flowing before we launched, and figured The Last Jedi would make a good first day. Our minds were ever so slightly blown by what we got...
so THATS where you disappeared to for an entire year lol
Well, thanks for the answer :) glad to have you guys back
You look good, Cullen. Glad to have you back!
Reti4 (Callan) - Thanks very much, I'm glad to be back.
When I've heard you guys in the past I've agrred n disagreed at times, sometimes I've felt you were holding onto eu too hard n not allowing new stuff to shine cus of that....but in this case y'all are 100% on point. The last Jedi doesn't fit with anything they've set up in past movies including the force awakens. It's a mess. Phasma and snoke both have 0 point at this point. Lukes character makes 0 sense in this movie in comparison to who he was.
My brother said he was pieces of Luke's green lightsaber scattered around the island. Essentially it had been stripped for parts and repurposed for various machines he was making use of.
They really should have had Finn be the Jedi or have both be Jedi.
Evan loves that red pen more than the movie lol
In movie 1 when Qui-Gon actually refuses to help the slaves that didn't bother me. They are hunted by the trade federation and are there with a lot of untrustworthy characters. The last thing that they should do then is stir up trouble and make themselves be known. Not to mention Tattoine is controlled by the hutts. The republic doesn't have any authority there and Qui-Gon is just 1 man. I don't see what he could have actually done.
If anything I liked how he did seem sympathetic to the slaves but knew to keep his head down and keep his eyes on the mission. By the way he's talking it's obvious it's not a surprise for him and he knew that there would be slaves on a remote hutt world.
To me at least it showed that the jedi are people and they have limits.
I do think they put that scene of them talking about the suffering of the poor in it because so many people complained about it. I never saw the issue.
Nice podcast. Would love to know what you guys thought of rogue one.
Reti4 - We recorded our thoughts on Rogue One before creating the Fanalysis channel. We may be uploading our previous material to the new channel in the future, but in the meantime, you can check out our thoughts over on Jensaarai1's channel:
ua-cam.com/video/wprsESGfhZ8/v-deo.html
Superman snapping Zod’s neck is nowhere near the level of Luke in this that actually makes sense .
Pretty much agree with all of what you guys say. This films story is so shoddy. I took my 10 year old boy along hoping he would feel some of the magic I felt watching star wars as a kid- but it was embarrassing.
I've read the new canon Thrawn book, well the audio book, and I actually liked the story. I admit the parts with Pryce are kinda weak, but Thrawn himself is actually handled very well
I hope that it's good, I just know that it can never match the original Thrawn Trilogy for me and steered clear as a result. I'm glad people are getting some enjoyment out of it though.
Fanalysis the novel pretty much keeps all of Thrawn's legends history while adding a fresh take.
Fanalysis
I know it’s not Legends Thrawn, but this version is far better than the one in the Rebels TV show
Like they handle Thrawn’s genius very well, and Vanto is also quite a good character. Sure he’s no Pellaeon, but he’s a good character to work with Thrawn
Like I said, the parts with Pryce are kinda weak, but Thrawn I feel is handled well. And his rivalry/interactions with Night Swan were interesting
Honestly, I say it’s worth a read. I did enjoy the Legends Thrawn Trilogy, But this book is the closest we are gonna get to Legends Thrawn and I feel it does him justice (at least far better justice than Rebels did). As a fan of Legends Thrawn, I enjoyed him here
Eh. I think Rebels Thrawn is fine in episodes where he is actually given stuff to DO and isnt simply letting events unfold.
When he's matching wits with Hera or Kallus or leading the attack on the Rebel base, he's totally on form. It's only in those other episodes where they are just padding things out that his portrayal becomes a problem.
Jonathan Campbell They can't have the real Thrawn in Rebels, he would wipe the floor whit them and the series would end right there and then, so they had to dumb him down.
Yay! You're back lol! Love the idea for the channel and cant wait to see more from you guys!
Indeed! We're glad people seem to like the idea of more diverse content, we're excited to bring it to you. First videos will be up in the next 24 hours.
Great! You guys were always one of my fav podcasts (or videos lol) and yeah I'd love to hear what you think on all the other franchises out there! Side note since it came up in the video, but oh gosh. I may skip the LOK one, just cause i REALLY love that show. I know it's flawed lol, but still. I just like to stay positive on that particular franchise. But I'll watch all the other vids! :) for sure!
Oh no fear, we all love Legend of Korra too. Those episodes will definitely not be negative in tone, there's just a lot to talk about on both sides of the spectrum, that's all.
Oh cool! Yeah there's definitely highs and lows, but even the lows I never really mind that much. But alright! I'll look forward to that episode lol
Boy, it took me almost a week and a half to watch all of this. It felt like I was watching the Titanic because it took so long. Agreed on all accounts. This movie was like a bag of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans where you got things that look good but part of the time it turns out to be garbage or at the very least meh. I can't really say more because my comment would probably reach beyond the character length.
I'm not too disappointed about the Tales of the Jedi troubleshooting because I wasn't looking forward to that as I was to KOTOR or other works that you had listed. But I'll watch your episode all the same. Maybe it'll get me to reading that comic series again.
I for one am *not* looking forward to J.J. Abrams directing 9. His track record of directing movies have been fanfilms or homages to previous works. I would much rather have him be seated as a producer because he's really good at that job with a list of movies that he's been a part of. I'm also really hesitant on Rian Johnson having his own trilogy of movies separate from the main story. I wouldn't know what to expect from him with that much responsibility.
The Mace Windu comics have not been that great either for me. GreyJedi91, I want to hear your notes on it to compare with mine.
Going by the movies this was strike 2 for Star Wars. Rogue One was a bunt that only really allowed up to first base. I'l have to wait and see if Han Solo will be strike three. I don't really care about the current expanded universe of material out there, but it's possible that if the films don't fulfill me then the rest of the EU could pick up the pieces. The old canon actually has currently been doing that for me as I've been going back to reading stuff that I had missed and playing KOTOR. So, when the current canon of Star Wars fails then I'll have that to go back to.
You put Rey in a Vs series, she'll win because her secret power is that she can influence the plot to demand her to win!
The thing almost seems like a Star Wars roleplay. I love doing roleplays and I even turn some of them into fanfictions but that does require some serious restructuring. It is always fun to see what people can come up with and in what kind of weird directions it can go. But you can do that because there are no consequences and once the RP is finished you just start a new one.
1:40:20 "I've only felt this darkness once before. it didn't scare me enough then. it does now."
I think he WAS referring to the Emperor. Yoda said in ESB "You will be [afraid]...You _will_ be...". I think this is a direct reference to that. I know he seems like he's talking about Kylo, but I think he's talking about The Emperor. He senses the darkness he sensed in the Emperor in Rey, and that's an unextinguishable flame.
This movie killed Star Wars for me far more than the prequels. What's worse, is that the corpse of Star Wars will keep stumbling around, year after year, until the box office returns finally die.
The prequels were terrible films, but they gave us so much of what we know as Star Wars despite that, the phenomenal music, the wealth of a foundation for the setting that spun into so many varied stories and characters etc. These new films actively destroy everything we know and love about the Star Wars setting and don't even attempt to replace what they burn away.
Exactly. These movies have no lore. The New Republic? A complete non-entity. The new Jedi Order? Wiped out. The First Order? Still using the same stuff as the Empire, just bigger.
Star Wars needed a "Kevin Feige." Someone to oversee the universe, and make sure it's handled respectfully. George Lucas himself would have been great for that job, just keep him out of the directors chair.
I'm sick of having to defend the Prequels from people who have no idea how brilliant they were! Prequel-bashing is getting old and stale! It's time for you Prequel-haters to stop complaining about how your childhoods were ruin all because Lucas had the guts to expand the Star Wars universe. People like to blindly bash these amazing movies like it's some popular trend or something, but if it weren't for the Prequels, Star Wars as we know it would have been an out-dated series from the 80's. It took Lucas's grand vision to resurrect and expand the saga to even more depth. That's something Di$ney can never ever do in a trillion years. Plus, if it weren't for the Prequels and the EU, this channel along with the other members of the Forcecast wouldn't really exist for what they're famous for since the Lightsaber form/versus videos were inspired by material from the Prequels/EU itself.
drksideofthewal I mean the whole thing about Luke creating the New Jedi Order isnt a new idea, they could have easily done this but instead made him a dooku-like hermit who hates the force and hates himself ENTIRELY different from what ANY other canon source relates to
I don't think the prequels really damaged SW that much. While they are far from perfect by themselves they didn't introduce that many problematic things. A lot of the stuff that they did add actually was good material to build on for later. I actually felt those midichlorians were really fascinating and especially when Plagious was brought into that.
1:52:25 and 1:49:10 are the funniest parts of this video
Hey Fanalysis, are you going to do a review on something else that's not Avatar The Last Airbender or Star Wars?
6 years later...
I often come back to the Council's old SW videos (Dark Lord books, these movie reviews, etc), and I realised something about Antoine's reviews. He's far more visceral when it comes to what he looks at as being good/bad moments in the films. While the other four each had their moments of "if I only take this as part of this film, I liked it. As part of a SW film in the SW verse, no," while Antoine often added his own inner explanations to add gravitas or enjoyability to a scene. He does this with the Leia/Mary Poppins part. Now, while he does admit a few times this is what he does, he doesn't then separate these inner jumps to look at a scene without his own added stuff.
Nice to see I’m not the only one watching these awesome videos in 2022 😄
@@blaynerotycoon8821 They really are awesome. It doesn't matter if I know the video off by heart, or I disagree with their views (see the Revan moment in the Palpatine video), I still adore coming back to these vids.
You know, I read an article somewhere (and this being the internet, I tried fact-checking, but couldn't find any other confirmation) that Leia was written out of episode IX due to Carrie's passing. So, I went into this movie expecting Leia to die. (After Abrams said before Episode VII, "Leia's not a jedi but she's still force-sensitive," I am glad this movie addresses that...even if the scene was clunky in its execution).
Also, because of how anti-climactic the actual duel was (gorgeously shot, just not a lot of substance), I consider this movie's lightsaber duel Kylo and Rey vs the Praetorians. Which, I felt was a cool sequence. I thought the Praetorians were a cool design, I liked the weapons. Although I felt the sequence was too brief.
I noticed something as well. Snoke. Kylo Ren. Just something interesting I noticed; they're acolytes of the Dark Side, but they aren't Sith Lords (they don't have Sith titles).
Snoke was doing the same trick Luke was doing at the end of the film - Snoke was Force projecting and is alive and well hanging with Phasma... think about it.... here comes the J.J. twist in the third film
I'd buy it if we didn't have the lingering shot on Snoke's corpse, very much sliced to pieces. Entirely possible given this abominable trilogy's quality, but it would be completely ridiculous if they took that route.
some one came up with a funny idea he was obviously joking that episode nine basically would retcon this movie by having Luke wake up from a Vision with Rey still in front of him :P that'd be hilarious but itd be such a collosal waste of time
I’m expecting a Lost tier plot twist .
One thing I never understood was the hate towards Jar Jar. He did have a few funny scene's and I really liked his design and his reactions. Him being made general was kinda off but I was actually glad he was so incompetent. They set up that he's incompetent and they follow through on it.
marinus18 My head Canon is Jar Jar is Darth Plagueis in desiguse to give Darth Sidouis emergency powers because he knew it would be his downfall as well to keep an eye on Anakin because a part of him feels the need to protect his "son" but he can't interfer with the Force to much.
That is even more ridicules.
There is a conspiracy theory making the rounds that Mark Hamill did not know that he was going to die in this film and that's why he died in that rather awkward particular manner- apparently he was looking incredibly shocked after seeing the premiere.
He also openly said that he preferred Colin Treverrows take on Luke and that it was more in line with how he saw the character.
Man do I hope that's true. It'll be one for the history books if so.
If you have a link to this that would be dope.
m.ua-cam.com/video/FntZKz9fXp8/v-deo.html
If the link doesn't work just search "Mark Hamill didn't know "
It is just a theory at this point, but it would honestly make sense if nothing else
Yeah, Hamill appears to have debunked this. My bad.
Jonathan Campbell Probably because someone told him stop you’re hurting our sales .
Another question. How do you guys feel about a role-play played between you guys?
A star wars one would be obvious but maybe something like a D&D campaign could be fun. Schedules seem difficult as they are but I thought I'd ask as you guys seem to enjoy talking with each other and creating chemistry.
Reti4 - We definitely want to do it, and if we do it'll most likely be D&D. I have my own setting that I run a campaign in for some friends one weekend every month or so. I'm also hoping to do some videos on that in the future. If you look closely, you can *just* see a Beholder floating in the channel banner next to Appa. :)
Fanalysis Brilliant to hear. I'll be looking forward to that. Could I ask what kind of videos you were thinking of? It'll give me another reason to visit your channel.
Reti4 - Various types. Lore videos for my setting, character videos for NPC's and Player characters and actual footage of us playing. The main problem I have with this at the moment, and the reason you won't be seeing these for a while, is that I need artwork for everything.
Fanalysis Sounds good. I would watch/listen to that.
Set aside that the light speed crash scene was awesome. How come there aren't weapons like light speed catapults that just throw giant steel balls at ships or something like that. I was baffled that it worked that way even if it seemed logical. Just something to think about ...
The whole kamikaze jump to hyperspace scene looked awesome and all but can someone explain to me why this doesn't happen every space battle. Why not do this against the death star or something? Im confused..
8:21- Here's the beginning
Disney should apologize for this movie. It was terrible, so much nonsense. So much bad humor and useless characters. RIP Star Wars :(
It certainly was a mess of a film.
Disney should Fire Kennedy and Abrams .
I was really hoping for Finn to become a jedi
Luke's insight into the truth of Vader helps return Anakin to the light and defeats the Emperor. His insight has served him well at every major decision. Then comes Ben; his own nephew, except when Luke looks at him through the Force-using his feelings, his insight-he sees only darkness. Now, Luke's trusted instincts are telling him to strike Ben down for the good of the future, in the same way his damaging trip to Bespin was ultimately a good thing, and to ignore the advice of his Jedi Masters and reach out to Vader was a good thing. Luke, of course, realizes his mistake; that his instincts have been clouded, but by then it's too late. I'd argue that Luke in the flashback does what Luke has always done as a hero of the Rebellion and a Jedi Knight: he trusts his instincts. And they led him wrong, hence retreating into exile unable to trust his insight any more and in an emotional crisis.
Looking good Reti4, thought you were infinity war captain America 😂 very slick 👌🏻
I went into this movie with little expectation, but still came out very underwhelmed. These two new saga films haven't impressed me and because of this I'm no longer looking forward to episode 9 and I'm certainly not counting down the days until Ryan Johnson's new trilogy is out, I've lost all interest.
Thanks very much Tom, I don't see the similarity myself but looking like Cap is no bad thing :).
I'm right with you there, zero expectation outside of a solidly put together non-Star Wars film and they couldn't even give us that...
So expanding on the snoke giving rey the lightsaber thing the shit crashing into the star destroyer was the perfect way for rey and kylo to escape snoke. I feel like that could have been a good direction
Reti4 - Here's a thought. The film ends with Snoke leaning in, eyes wide in glee at the struggle between Rey and Ren (This point at the stage of the lightsabre tug of war) when the ship smashes into the dreadnought and we end on that exquisite shot.
The next film opens with Rey coming to in a disoriented state, Snoke being evacuated (injured state) by the Praetorian guards and Hux standing in front of a barely stirring Ren with his pistol drawn. Rey saves Ren with a force push at Hux before carrying him out to a ship and to safety. The ease at which the Order were going to discard him being the wake up point that puts Ren into a state of self-questioning instability, followed by immense grief and guilt for Han, and then finally he arises Ben Solo once more. All while watching Luke train Rey, who is still ready and willing to fight the First Order and Snoke, her strength inspiring Ren and bringing him back from the edge.
Pointless The Last Jedi is, uncertain the franchise's future is🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
quit being optimistic!
Lo and behold, we're getting The Rise Of Retcons this November !!!
The movie is just a mix bag to me. I don't know how they could even end the trilogy at this point.
Reti4 - They can't in any way that's worth doing unfortunately. They've run any idea of trilogic sequencing into the ground. They might manage to salvage the mess of a setting they've created in later films but it sure as hell isn't happening in the next one alone.
I recently rewatched it. Omg it's so much worse. It's the Character Assassination of Luke Skywalker like u all stated. It is probably my least favorite Star Wars movie now. It's worse than TFA.
I think while watching the beginning the part that made me scratch my head is why did the admiral of the dreadnought bomb the planet first?....wouldn't it make since to attack the fleet then the planet that way there is no escape for the planets forces if any remain I mean the resistance fleet wasn't moving since they were waiting on the transports and if you attacked and they left then you have transports you can capture and interrogate as well execute if need be later on
Every SW fan should be questioning why these decisions were made. Could Kathleen be a Sith? She bided her time for 40 years, got control of LucasFilm, and then proceeded to destroy everything good about SW. It didn't have to be that way. The original cast didn't need to be treated like crap. Young and old fans could have all been satisfied. It really is rather twisted stuff.
pam goldsmith Ironic because she claims to hate the franchise .
@@BlackangelKatakuri where did you get that information?
Hold on Reti, what do you mean by Prequel Yoda, the rather unfortunately lit puppet in Phantom Menace of the amazing CGI Yoda from Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith?
The Phantom Menace version presumably.
You actually liked the multiple Rey’s snapping their fingers ? That was cringeworthy .
#NotMySkywalker
Reti4 (or should I say Fanalysis???) has a beard? Also, I couldn't find this because of the channel change. I have not seen any spoilers because I don't want to have any bias going into this film. Ill be seeing this in theaters within the next week (got finals right now). But I'm calling it now, if they killed off Han in the last film, then Luke and Leia are going to die. Also, have a feeling Kylo and Rei will have some form of sexual attraction with each other. Pray that the soundtrack is really good because its Star Wars and John Williams. Looking forward to this channel and what's coming up next!!!
This 3-hour festivity ended my run of watching discussion videos on the Last Jedi. Have the same mentality as you guys going forward now with the movies. I did not have any prior expectations going into the TLJ: did not watch/read any theories for over a year, only saw one trailer. Now I do not feel like watching any speculation/theory video for Ep9 at this point. I simply do not get what NEW story they are trying to tell. Soo confusing..
The movie itself was...gripping and entertaining. But even during the entertaining parts, the best way to describe my mental state would be to establish a link to TeamFourStar's Vegeta in the Broly parody: "This is so cool, but so dumb". I guess I am, according to critics, too much of a cynic.
Anyway, good to have the Council back on my screen.
The only thing that is gripping and entertaining is watching reviewers picking up every single retarded choice taken in this shit heap of a movie. There's literally NOTHING going for, unless you're a mentally challenged corporate slave.
I think my views can be summarised thusly:
Force Awakens made me angry. The Last Jedi made me sad.
Also, the porgs are the best thing to come out of this franchise.
Reti4 - Agreed. Though my sadness has a heaping pile of bafflement thrown on top smothering any emotional impact I may have felt.
Also, I thoroughly dislike the porgs.
Maybe it was the sense that there were some things in the movie that could have worked but just didn't. Maybe it was the fact that this film instilled in me the knowledge of this what we have now. It's here top stay and that took all the fight out of me. It changed me so that I just want to ignore the new films and go find some of the better new books and content coming out.
Also, I'm actually interested why you dislike the porgs. I'll admit, the practical effects they used was really quite jarring sometimes, which is actually present in the new trilogy quite a bit so far. It could be the fact that I'm just more susceptible to having my heart melted in the way they did. Plus, the comedy with them mostly got off without a hitch, which can't really be said about the rest of the jokes in the movie.
I just spent a paragraph defending a fictional animal in a film that I rather dislike. Wow.
For me both movies made me furious and this one made me depressed as well.
I think the title "last jedi" might actually mean that Luke will be the last jedi. That Rey won't remake the jedi at all. Maybe the 9th will be something like a new beginning.
You guys make some good points. Maybe you would like a special guest on the Channel? 😉
Yes! These guys, You, Jensaarai, Stupendous Wave and Star Wars Theory would be the perfect collaboration!
Stupendous Wave and Star Wars Theory
no
SW and SWT are mostly "Wookiepedia channels" and every now and then, some fan fiction videos come out.
One issue that I have with it that nobody else seems to have is the lack of species in it. One thing I always liked about Star Wars and what I like more in the prequels is the amount of non-human species and how they live in that world. Nobody is batting an eye and it's only extremist idiots who make an issue of it. The prequels the Gungans, the Kaminoins, the utapoans, Paltapine's advisor, the Geonosians and countless others in the senate and jedi counsel.
Even the originals with their limited technological capability had Yoda, Chewie, Ackbar, that Solstian in the falcon (don't know his name), the Ewoks, Jabba the Hutt, Twilecks and countless other sentient non-human races.
The non-humans here all have very minor roles or are barely there.
What about the novelization for the other two prequels?
Antoine you said you're done with Star Wars on your channel?
Reti rockin that jedi beard
Reti4 - Thanks, I hope you like it.
Tbh the only thing that made me happy in this movie was Rey's character. I don't like how she knew everything she was seeing either and how she could instantly control her abilities. But I did like the role she played, she just got stuck with a very bad version of Luke (not saying Mark Hamill is bad, just what they gave him was). I liked her connection with Kylo and while the fight with the guards might've overestimated her in the SLIGHTEST. it was very entertaining.
Reti4 - Rey's "Character".
I completely get what you mean though, I really like the cores of all the characters they've given us, they've just either completely misused them (Hux) or given us *nothing* on top of their enjoyable base personalities (Rey, Finn, Po, Rose, Leia etc...)
Ren was the same but in this last movie they did attempt to give him SOME development, even that falls flat on its face writing-wise though. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley have breathed so much life into their characters that wouldn't be there otherwise.
It didn't help that they practically brushed away such anticipating things fans of the seventh movie wanted like who Snoke was for example and the unneeded comedy. I definitely like the idea where Kylo is going but I'd rather have them waited til the 9th episode let that hate and conflict fester and keep Snoke around. I felt what they did with Finn was pointless honestly and I felt really bad for both Rose and him. Po,Rey and Kylo in my opinion are the only characters that actually went somewhere in the movie whether it would be poorly executed or an idea they're poking at us. And I loved Hux in the seventh film and to see him be treated like a common officer, like something off of Rebels really hurt.
Reti4 has regenerated!!!
Allons-y.
Geronimo!!!
How much of the movie do you think could be saved by different editing, like cutting jokes out or shorter, no weird green milk, etc?
Reti4 - Nowhere near enough. The editing would shave some of the rough edges off, but the content will still be much the same.
Fanalysis Agreed. It's just odd that is has these many issues on several independent levels - especially given that Disney seemed so confident in RJ that they gave him a whole new trilogy.
Thanks for all the replies, btw!
When will you guys be talking about The Rise if Skywaller
Reti4 - Video will be up in 8ish hours.
I'm so excited to hear all the prerecorded stuff!!!!!
The first videos are going up in the next 24 hours, I hope you enjoy them.
But people hats on the the prequel movies ): this movie made my head hurt. So in the clone wars We’ll trained Jedi fight in space with helmets but Leia can just survive in space yeah sure. I swear the first order must have been stupid my goodness. I didn’t care about anybody in the movie smoke was just sitting in a chair cool smh. Captain plasma pulling out a stick finally doing something but does quickly oh my gosh.worst starwars movie made. My favorite part was them showing how strong Luke could use the force at the end of the movie. I was just thinking when will this movie end. A freaking soccer ball ): . I had to watch starwars revenge of the sixth right after when I got home to see some real starwars action.
This is why revenge of the south will always be my favorite starwars movie good action, deaths of people we cared about, good lightsaber battles.for example smoke was built up to be strong but we didn’t see him do anything. But death sidious we got to see in revenge of the sixth how strong he was. last Jedi all the characters sucked to me
I truly agreed how like saved Vader a Jedi killer but wanted to kill Kylo ren a child from a vision fake Luke
Great video y’all (:
I've seen a few more far-left-leaning reviewers enjoy the fact that the villains are weak, based on the fact that some far-right leaning people (usually on the internet) tend to un-ironically quote or emulate "cool" villains like Tyler Durden, The Joker etc.
I'm pretty sure JJ Abrams has expressed similar if not quite identical sympathies in the past and one of the goals of these movies is obviously to increase representation for women and minorities (this might be why Rey and Finn are relatively speaking blank slates- it makes it easier to project your own feelings onto).
In other words, I would not at all be surprised if the villains being weak is a deliberate choice representing the political views of the creators (much like Lucas saying that Palpatine was partly inspired by Nixon). The message being, Darth Vader (cool, efficient, machine like evil) does not exist, but Kylo Ren and General Hux do...and they are just as much of a murderous joke in real-life as they are in this movie, and need to be portrayed as such. Snoke then is just a stand-in for rich and powerful old guys who manipulate people like that, but in the end they are just as full of it as anyone themselves.
Of course, this has the side-effect of potentially making the heroes look annoyingly incompetent if they are up against something pathetic yet still fail to stop them (probably why the First Order managed to conquer the galaxy entirely off-screen), which means that much of the drama has to come from infighting and pointless side-quests, while at the same time potentially undermining any actual achievements they DO manage since they are beating a bunch of clowns...but yeah, I think that this is the reasoning from a creative point of view.
And from a studio point of view disposable villains and playing fast and loose with the lore probably makes each film more accessible to newcomers and easier to follow, and thus they are happy enough to go along with it. Thats my take on it anyway. I've got no doubt it's a deliberate choice at the very least.
Jonathan Campbell: I identify as left-wing, and I think the villains in TLJ suck. I don't think it looks like an ideological decision. More just like poor writing.
I also identify as left-wing, and I too think the villains suck. But I have heard left-wing people defend this movie and their villains on those grounds, that having competent or "cool" villains is a bad idea because there are trolls, idiots and extremists out there who like to emulate them, and that Kylo Ren and Hux work precisely because they suck.
Instead of fans coming up with Awesome fan theories....we should come up with as many shitty theories for Episode 9 as we can...perhaps JJ will see them and in his effort to trick us, he'll write a good story for Episode 9......? Maybe?
RedLetterMedia has answered your prayer : ua-cam.com/video/gzeOrA2in1c/v-deo.html
Worst Star Wars
Best analysis
Reti4 - Thanks very much, we're glad you enjoyed.