The Council Forcecast: Episode 18 - The Force Awakens Review
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- Опубліковано 21 гру 2015
- Greetings one and all, I hope you enjoy the latest installment of the Council Forcecast.
This episode is being uploaded just before episode 17 so we don't keep you all waiting, so don't worry if you think you missed one. It will be available on Jensaarai1's channel shortly.
This is what happens when you make a movie to sate the filthy casuals.
That's the perfect way to describe my feelings of the EU vs Canon material. Everyone else who likes these haven't experienced life-changing stories such as KOTOR II.
The greatest thing about the prequels was the Lore Building. So many new elements were introduced in the prequels, Double Bladed Lightsabers, Battle Droids, Clones, many new planets, ect. I never minded the senate scenes, because they explained how the Galaxy works in ways the OT never did, and nothing was glanced over because "Pfft who cares about politics? Lets get to the pew pew." So, despite the many flaws of the prequels, I've always enjoyed that aspect of them.
This movie was the anti-prequel. Likable characters, good humor, well done practical effects, but very little Lore Building, or exposition. I very much enjoyed episode 7, but for me, it didn't add much to the universe that we haven't seen before.
+drksideofthewal very true, I know its unpopular but I agree
Very good point, it shouldn't have been that at all. It should have been a mix between the two learning from mistakes made from both movies. But instead their ignoring the prequels like they never happened. I mostly think that there should have been more exposition to set up the world they are building. Their are hints and it's not enough information for us to get emotionally attached.
+drksideofthewal It added new planets such as Jakku and the Hosnian System.
I enjoyed the Clone Wars TV series.
+drksideofthewal Lore building is good for nerds like us, but are by no means necessary to make a good movie.
Just want to apologize from the outset for the quality of my recorded portions. Had problems with connectivity that day that I've never had before. Hadn't realized how choppy my portions were up until now. Hope you guys enjoy the rest of the episode regardless. Will work on a solution for future episodes...
you were actually in a council forcecast! Again! Thats all that matters
+GreyJedi91 It's really not that bad, at least not in 1.5X speed, which I watch in.
+Matt White That's certainly all we care about. Matt is back.
Quality of mic
+Reti4 when are your next versus videos happening, its literally been a year since anything.
"A NEWER HOPE" starring Kylo "Baby Face" Ren, "Lady British" Rey, "Girly Redhead" Hux, "Phantom" Phasma (never appears), and a lot of old guys who used to be important and will surely bring more profits. Don't miss it FanBoys, you know you want this remake...
lmao perfectly true
How to sum up The Force Awakens?
High budget Spaceballs.
Nah, that's TLJ.
@@robbielobster3212 Both fall in the category, for me.
You're confused about who or what Snoke is? He is a Supreme Leader, so he's North Korean.
Omg lol
I have a hunch that its Darth Bane.
How? just how? ho... how?
Thank-you guys I have been waiting for this video. I will not be able to watch it until later due to time restraints, but i am downloading it. I'm so glad all of you are doing this together. Antoine you get better all the time (you 're my favorite). Once again thank-you to all of you, Dante.
the real starkiller is rolling in his grave over this base
Bendak Starkiller
Still coming back to watch these, great discussion
Honesty i wanted a council vid today for my birthday thanks for uploading it! About to watch
+William Greggs Happy Birthday! I hope you have a great day and enjoyed the episode.
+Reti4 I did man i appreciate the wishes. The video was awesome too watch. Most of the viewpoints i agree with especially the fact their trying to forget the prequels and sort of rewrite history But all It was awesome. Keep posting I'll be on the lookout.
love you guys to pieces! keep up the good work all of you!
Poe Dameron has a nice thick coat of plot armor. 😀
Darth Orennun and rey
ha yeah you're right
I think Yoda actually had a far more plausible reason to redraw into isolation. The jedi order meant everything for him, he grew up in the order and lived there his entire life. The jedi were his children and his entire life was completely devoted to the order. When it was destroyed it was like his entire life was destroyed, everyone he loved and everything he worked for torn apart and him being powerless to stop it. He's now an old man who has lost everything and is far too old to bring it back up again.
Luke has lived his entire youth without ever hearing about the jedi.
(I actually didn't care much for Yoda in the OT but I fell in love with him during the PT)
I'm more hyped for the Mr. Plinkett review than I was for the movie itself.
+Azronger You're not the only one.
It was great to finally hear from you guys on this!
+Christmas Ape I'm glad you enjoyed it, sorry to keep you waiting.
As always I've enjoyed watching you guys talking on the podcast and it's great to see Matt in it again. I've left another comment about what I thought about the film somewhere in the comment section. Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you all!
When episode 1 premiered people were all loving it as well Reti, give it time
Once the hype dies down the Plinketts will rise
+DB6195 Once people can research it, you release how stupid it is
+DB6195 what is Plinketts?
Dr.Voctor look up mr plinkett star wars review
Wanna pizza roll?
Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens is the least original movie of the frenchise, you might have not noticed but your brain did....
It's extremely refreshing to hear you all giving this film a much more mixed critical response. My social media pages have been little more than an echo chamber of overwhelming enthusiasm, with any attempt to point out the often very significant flaws brushed aside with a plea not to think about the film too deeply. Yes, the film is a fun watch and there are numerous good elements within it, but this should not justify elevating the film to such heights of praise: there needs to be some attempt to go beyond mere thrill and nostalgia so that we can subject the film to focused critical reflection, which is precisely what you all have done here. My own thoughts coming out of the film were decidedly mixed, but the more I've thought about most of the shortcomings you've discussed, the more my opinion has slid towards the negative, though not to the point that I would call it terrible.
First off, I want to say it is fantastic to see all of you on the Council again. As a diehard EU fan, it gives me great pleasure to know there are other fans out there like yourselves. In fact, it is because of your efforts and love for the older stuff, that I have reread a lot of those great stories(like the Clone Wars Dark Horse comics, Shatterpoint, Thrawn Trilogy, KOTOR etc.). So for that you have my thanks.
My biggest problem was that this film rehashed A new Hope too much. Don't get me wrong; some of the scenes, like the fight in the Village, were great. But my ire came when they revealed the Starkiller base. To be fair, at least it wasn't a space station. But did we really need it? If anything, I would have preferred if the Resistance actually lost. That would have been a different take on the film. Or at the very least, have them succeed but have some other massive consequence, other than Han Solo dying.
But really my frustration stems less from the film and more towards the general public. The prequels weren't accepted by the general public. And as sad as that is, LucasFilm I felt was in a real catch tweny-two, in that in order to gain the massive audience they'd once had; the studio needed to do it.
A part of me does hope that the next two films will strive to do something different; that now they got there audience back it can take those risks and do something else. The pacing of the movie felt off, especially around the third act. But I attribute that to Abrams more than anything, as his films typically do suffer from that aspect. Also some characters, like Captain Phasma, are horribly underutilized.
But regardless, I enjoyed the cast of the film. I enjoyed the production value and I am generally curious to see where this new trilogy goes. So overall, I give it a 4.3 out of five. It doesn't NOT deserve a 95 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. But at the very least it is a solid film and one that I can watch again.
Great work as always, guys.
More toward what
***** Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. I very much appreciate it.
I can see where you are coming from. I find it sad there is an effective generational divide amongst hardcore Star Wars fan. Those who grew up with the OT and the PT. Personally, I grew up with BOTH trilogies and such impressions I'd like to think didn't effect my judgement.
But yes, the bandwagon hatred for the prequels is really large. I get why, as I do not think they are good movies and Episode one is awful. But even then, I respect the ideas and concepts of the PT. One thing, people don't give Lucas enough credit for is the guy is an ideas man. He had some wonderful concepts.
If anything, Lucas shouldn't have directed and did what he did for the OT. Execute the production and story for the movie. Leave dialogue and characters to more capable people. But nope. Lucas' ego got the better of him, unfortunately.
If people want a better idea of how these ideas could be used successfully, read the novelizations for the prequel, especially Revenge of the Sith. Those books very much add so much definition to the skeletal structure that Lucas defined. And finally, I respect the PT for the EU.
Stories, like ShatterPoint, Labryinth and Yoda etc. wouldn't have been possible without the Clone Wars. And arguably, the PT era EU stuff was by far the most popular amongst fans(right up there with KOTOR). So, yes.
I do not live in an echo chamber, like most of the general public does. I liked TFA, but I do not think it deserves 95 percent or nominations for best picture. That is just my humble opinion. . Critque is the backbone of everything entertainment. And while there are dogmatic positions on both sides, just because everyone likes something doesn't make it right at times.
***** Thank you once more for being so civil. You bring up some excellent points, one that I did not consider.
The whole taste thing I could honestly see. The black and white nature is in my view is one of the many things the general public and casual movie fans like about the movies. That isn't to say it is bad. Far from it. But I personally find it a bit lacking.
It is this reason why I liked the EU, as it did explore moral grey within the Star Wars mythos. Look at the Thrawn Trilogy. Admiral Thrawn was a very sympathetic villain who only wanted order. Heck in Lost Stars, the new canon book expresses how one of the MC hates the rebellion, because plenty of her friends were on the Death Star.
That makes the scene in a New Hope that much more interesting. It also showcases the costs of war and the ramifications it has. Which I'm sorry to say from the movies, we don't really get.
The PT EU stuff for the most part did a fantastic job.Especially, the Clone Wars comic book series and even TCW(which I am mixed on). The Clone Wars especially, showcased how flawed the republic were and how hypocritical the Jedi were(Clone Wars comic, Labryinth etc). Again, these are fantastic ideas, but Lucas did not convey this.
As for Lucas looking technology I can see that. If anything I see it going hand and hand with his ego becoming larger. So overall, for the ideas for the EU the PT is something I respect. I just wished the movies could have conveyed that better. And considering this shortcoming, I doubt we'll have any more risk taking.
Thus, my frustration with OT purists. I love the OT like many, but for the franchise to expand it needs to grow. While it is important to keep your base, sometimes in the long run doing new things can help prolong a franchise.
+Neil Ganti Force Awakens was garbage. It was all rehashed EU ideaa. Jacen- I Mean Kylo Ren has a relatively the same character development as Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus. Kylo's name "Ben" in JJ's eyes may have been a cool name for Kylo Ren. But it was salt in the wound because Ben Skywalker isn't canon anymore. Rey is very similar to late Legacy of the Force Jania. Po/Finn was trying to recreate Wedge/Luke but failed... because there was no relationship building. Po-Finn just met and act like Wedge/Luke. Wedge/Luke/Biggs grew up together... The First Order was just another take on the Thrawn trilogy. There wasn't anything new! Even the plot followed the Iv/Vi movie almost to a T. I saw the film twice and came out wondering why I expected better of an incompetent director/story teller JJ Abrhams.
you could mention Jakku but isn't Jakku really just a clone of tatooine?
Yall are just so awesome to watch!
+Luke McLaren Thank you very much, we hope you enjoyed the episode.
Awesome to see Matt, GreyJedi himself, back on the podcast. As for the film itself: I loved it; I think it's phenomenal. I definitely can't deny it's flaws but I really did enjoy it nonetheless.
Reti, you were the Chosen One! It was said you would enjoy the film, not despise it. Bring balance to the Council, not leave it in darkness! :)
+Ki-Adi Sandwich My apologies, rest assured balance shall return with the opening of the New Year.
+Reti4 What are your thoughts on the theory of Luke being Rey's father? I watched a video that mentioned the theory that when Kylo Ren and the Knights destroyed the New Jedi Order, Kylo killed a "Mara Jade" fill in that would be the woman that was Rey's mother, which would leave Luke distraught enough to go into exile, and be the begrudging master that doesn't want to train Rey because he doesn't want her to end up like her mother, which could be why he looks at Rey with a "What the fuck are you doing here" look.
At first I thought it was a bit dumb, but now that I thought about it, it makes the most sense. You think this is the route they'll go?
Jaina vs Mace?
+Ki-Adi Sandwich It'll be like that for the first 2/3's of Episode 8.
+CarnageRulez469 I'm actually theorizing that Rey is the sister to Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. I don't know though. Still we'll see.
I enjoyed the watch, and you guys helped me cement why i left the theater unable to say more than 'its ok'. :/
ayy! been waiting for this
I love what they did with the characters. Especially the last scene. I thought there was so much emotion in that scene and the actors did fantastic. Hope you guys do more podcasts soon!
+tennis90zz Episode 17 will be up on Jen's channel in the next few days.
Heh, when you talked about the Death Star and Starkiller Base, I could hear Palpatine from Robot Chicken saying "Do you have any idea what this is gonna do to my credit?"
I think Antoine is the only one who really understands what they were attempting at Kylo's character.
+Josh Jarvela Not really. We all see what they were attempting, we just think they shouldn't have been and/or failed to accomplish it more than Antoine does.
Just what I wanted for christmas! I understand that this will likely not be the most positive of reviews, but nonetheless I'm glad it's here.
+NickDonalds I hope you enjoyed it, we tried to keep it as positive as possible but it's not easy with this one. All we really achieved is an air of "meh".
I've been waiting for this for a while since all the reviews that I've been watching/reading had been nothing but praise and not a whole lot of deconstruction of the movie.
This movie is likable and good for what it does, and that is being a fun, swash-buckling adventure film, but the thing that is most detrimental is that it lacks lore building like any of the other Star Wars films and, really, a well-written plot. Because it's plot was essentially the same as A New Hope, it became predictable and therefore bland.
My own opinion on the movie is pretty much a combo on everyone else here. I don't have much to add than what has already been said.
The most recent inspiring movie I had was Frozen. I took away a lot more from than film than this film, and it actually got me started on writing again. I don't feel that way with this film. I don't feel like I want to go out and write my own fan fic from this film nor do I imagine myself to be in this film like how I used to in the rest of the movies.
+Grand Admiral Thrawn Huh Thrawn likes Frozen, good to know he has good taste in films.
+Grand Admiral Thrawn I wish you had been the featured villain in Episode 7
+Grand Admiral Thrawn First of all, I'm a huge fan. Loved the way you picked the Empire up after the Emperor. And I do wish your story was the one that got the film treatment as 'Ep. VII'
Second of all, I'm very glad that you saw Frozen as something inspiring as I and a lot of people have.
Lastly, I do agree also that this movie lacked the ground-building and power to inspire people that the other films have. Like you said; this is A New Hope all over again... Nothing much to work out of (other than developing the new characters) unlike the previous films did with the EU.
Traqn aucka
YAY level headed review of the new movie!!! Great job guys. :3
+dxeka1994 Thank you very much, I hope you enjoyed it.
Reti4
I did, very much so! I appreciate analysis over just raw fanboyism. (not accusing anyone of anything of course) :)
The giant hologram thing that Snoke does is like something Exar Kun would probably do. XD
AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO JUST ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT AND DIDN'T SEE THE PANDERING?!?!?!?!?
Jensaarai: "I would take Legacy of the Force over this any day;" me: "I would take Young Jedi Knights over this any day."
Im really not sure if this is place for this but i wanted to ask for all of your opinions on a lightsaber style ive been thinking about alot recently. Do you guys think Jar kai + Niman + Makashi would be an effective style? To me it seems like it could be the ultimate dueling style if all 3 styles were taken to the highest level.
I agree with Reti4 completely
+Zimzilla 99 Huzzah! I'm not alone in the universe. I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Reti4 I really enjoyed the episode and I really enjoyed when you guys called out all the wrongs done in the movie.
+Reti4 dont worry Reti4 you are not alone I agree with you as well and I greatly enjoyed seeing all of you guys together !
You're right. The light saber battles were atrocious. No forms whatsoever and we are expect to believe that Luke was Rens former master. Right....
That bugged the hell out of me too.
You would think that Kylo Ren is at least trained in the basics of Form V, since that was Luke and Anakin's form. It would make the most sense with how his lightsaber is designed.
Do the forms even exist in canon?
Yes, they do.
Love this podcast! :D
+Freekdom Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I haven't watched all of the video yet but during Rey's vision did you hear Ben kenobi's voice as well?
Star Wars Is Nothing without George Lucas.
Nien Nunb04 disagreed
Well, to be fair, it did say in the intro that the First Order was made in an attempt to bring back the Galactic Empire.
Yeahhhhhh im soooo happy for this episode. And all five are here. Yeah
+Ian Pleake The first time we've had all five members present since the Clone Wars episode. Good times.
1. Plagueis convinced his friend to commit suicide w/ a mind trick as a child w/ no training. Also Zannah blew up her friend's hand w/ no training. How is that different from anything Rey does?
2. Plagueis' theme from ROTS (where Sidious talks to Anakin about him) plays when Kylo talks to Snoke. Seems like a clear hint. Why's Evan so sure he's not Plagueis? No one disagreed w/ him?
3. Maz says "you have a weapon", when Finn asks for one, meaning the lightsaber. Could imply she senses he has the Force. Assuming one or two of Luke's students survived, there could be more Jedi around by the end of Ep. 8 than we'd think.
4. There are all sorts of reasons Luke might run. What if Rey's mother (Luke's wife) fell to the Dark side, and Luke had to kill her. Couldn't face the child, after killing her mother, or himself, ran. Perfectly realistic. Nobody's flawless. It's not if you fall down, it's if you get back up (he needs to fight this trilogy).
I'm sorry but Luke went through the shame and shock of his father being pretty much a literal monster. He confronted that and beat it, if Ben started hacking away at his students HE WOULD OBLITERATE HIM! And if he wasn't there... Well we saw what happened with Mara now didn't we?
Luke as a character would never go into exile
+DB6195 Luke is a bearded bitch now
+Smith Black he has grown a depression beard :D
+DB6195 Mid-life crisis
+DB6195 you summed it up perfectly mate. I completely agree with this.
+DB6195 At least not for such a weak reason like 'to find the original temple of the Jedi', not at the point in his life when the movie (supposedly) takes place. Early on, like in the time of The Truce at Bakura, when he was trying to pick up teachings from what remained of the Old Jedi, it would have been more understandable, but not when he's the old grand master of the order, when a (again, supposedly) great threat emerges . . .
oh boy i was waiting for this after I saw the movie today
+KaiWei Shen I hope you enjoyed it.
+Reti4 overall the movie was so mixed both halves go for both extremes but episode 7 was basically taking some of what the prequels was doing and the original (obviously) with good content but bad bones and did more justice to the prequels than the original......... I enjoyed listening to your opinions and I have been going around youtube and people I know to get the feel
what are your thoughts on the speculation that Darth plagueis could be supreme leader snoke ? I've seen a lot of speculation and theory videos and articles and it does seem possible, personally I find this very cool as darth plagueis is a very interesting and cool character and to have his story fleshed out more and expanded upon from the novel by james luceno would be cool to see
the finn I'm one of you line i found that funny
The only reason people like this shitty film is because it gave them that nostalgic emotional high that they didn't get from the Prequels. Unfortunately, once that high wears off, all these people will realize how unoriginal the movie was -- that it's just ANH 2.0 with the plot and characters rearranged. That's all! The average Star Wars fan doesn't know a good movie when they see one. They're idea of a perfect Star Wars film is if they include everything from the Original movies. Well, guess what? That shit gets tiring after awhile! At least the prequels were original in their execution. It took risks and actually added something to the saga. The new movies are just devoid of anything original. Everything from the characters, the world, and star ships are just copied and revised from the OT. What's the point in even making a new trilogy?
My favourite part of the film may of been Rey's introduction. Especially when she put on that old pilot helmet seeing the ship leave orbit it was just great.
Hey guys! Love all of your videos, just wish you had the time to make more! I liked this movie, and I see your complaints, and hold a lot of them, to a somewhat lesser degree. I liked all the characters, though you guys are right that it could have flushed them out more, it would be really difficult to have flushed them all out within the movie, and not make it 3hours long. And with the Maz aliens and space travel time, all the planets are in wild space, which means that it's a different part of the galaxy and therefore different species are going to be nearby. Probably not a lot of core world or even outer rim species either. Love the channels and keep up the good work!
1:38:06 - "Why can't I break your mind!!??" Made me lol
Temper tantrum impersonation as well XD
+TheNuisanceBird Yeah, I might have gone a bit overboard with that impersonation ^^'
It's true though, he does act like a spoilt child whining that life's not fair.
+Reti4 No it was perfect!
+Reti4 Pause at 1:38:34 - Connor's face as well XD
Isn't this the 17th episode? Or did I miss out on one?
EDIT: Never mind, just read the description.
In terms of Rey, I think her force pull and mind trick are justifiable assuming that she is a Skywalker. When Kylo Ren was interrogating her, I think it's logical to assume that she may have gotten more out of him. Rey's a very strong, independent, and adaptable character having lived on her own on a desert planet for several years whereas Luke was extremely immature and impatient. This affects both of their progress towards mastering the force, and Rey, I feel, is definitely capable of the feats she's performed in comparison to Luke because of her more disciplined state.
+Sleesk The Trandoshan It is ONLY justifiable if she is a Skywalker, if she's not then the film is completely ruined even for those trying to mount a defense of it. And if even if she is they've still handled it the stupidest way possible.
Rey is also a Mary Sue, which completely ruins her character for me. Which is a shame because Daisy Ridley acted really well throughout. (Barring the odd scene that I imagine was poor directing more than anything else)
+Reti4 I disagree heavily. Assuming she is a Skywalker, and it's very heavily implied, what she does is an excellent showcase of her potential in the force. I mean, if Vitiate can snap necks at age four, I'm sure Rey can accomplish what a very undisciplined Luke could do in a shorter timeframe. Even then, we don't know her backstory. For all we know, she could have already been trained to some degree as a child, and she could be unlocking previously forgotten abilities.
Rey being a Mary Sue is something I highly disagree with as well. She's a very vulnerable character, and, while strong, she's just as justified in her accomplishments as Luke is. Her victory against Kylo for example had the odds tipped in her favor. He had been shot, was bleeding out, just killed his father, just fought Finn in the cold, and he's not fully trained, in tune with his emotions, or in tune with the Dark Side whereas Rey is full on Light Side and in far greater health.
Sleesk The Trandoshan By handling in the stupidest way, I meant not portraying her as a Skywalker and randomly "keeping it a secret", not the abilities she demonstrates sorry.
+Reti4 you're fine. It's implied that she is a Skywalker via the visions and the "passing of the torch" (or in this case, the Skywalker lightsaber). Just remember that this is the first part in a trilogy. They can't and shouldn't reveal everything in the first part.
Tristan Roberson Wah Wah
I loved it
I think its interesting that they left so much unexplained just wait until episode 8 theyll have to explain more
So ... Episode 17 will forever be allusive?
Do remember that Vader was also distracted when Ezra and Kanan pushed him.
I for one did believe kilo ren (Ben) when his father confronted him but it's because my brother left my family and he was so cold and completely robotic and they're expressions and behavior were exactly alike
The music is.. well do you remmeber something about the musiqc? The camera in extreme close-up...
Was i the only person that noticed the guy with the red Durge mask Finn was talking to?
Captain Ithano I believe
IT'S HERE! IT'S FINALLY HERE!
Edit: Also, can't wait for that Star Wars Christmas Special drinking episode.
Can I just also say, there were so many scenes that were in the trailer but not in the movie.
+tomcat912 I'm glad you enjoyed the episode. Also, thank you, we had legitimately forgotten the promised drinking episode. I've put it to the Council and we'll see what we dig up.
people can still edit comments, thought could only delete or reply
Fascinating info; in the flashback scene right at the end, you hear Obi-Wan right at the end played once again by Ewan McGregor and even brought back Alec Guinness through some editing tricks.
You now that the music playing when they we get introduced to Snoke is the the same song from revenge of the sith when Plapatine tells anakin about Death plaguies. The tragedy of Darth plaguies. A coincidence, I don't think so:)
"Admiral Tarkin"??? 🎵Shock shock horror Conner shock shock horror🎵 😂
+Darth Marder I know right? If it wouldn't have thrown his point off I'd have torn into him for that one then and there :) As it happens, I had to mock him for it off-screen.
omg matt has joined the council!
+Janos Jalics Matt's always been on it, he's just been forever absent ^^. As far as we're concerned he's the Grandmaster. (See his latest work with Sharad Hett's story for evidence as to why)
I'd like to kind of point out something you all mentioned about the lightsaber fight at the end. You mentioned that it seemed they were "trying to hard" to distance themselves from the flashy acrobatics of the prequels, but went too far. However, this isn't a fight between two experienced duelists we're looking at, it's a desperate clash between an angsty, wounded Kylo and a scared, alone Rey who had never ignited a lightsaber before. Personally I think the fight carried those ideas well, with them both showing a lack of finesse, while Ren does have a bit of a "style" (twirling his saber all the time) it seems more like a uniform, specific move that one would have picked up on from having rudimentary skill in a particular area. Rey is essentially using the saber like she used her staff on Jakku, ie Jab Poke and Beat the crap out of Ren.
Alex The Huntsman Luke was inexperienced but he handled a lightsaber better than Rey and Kylo. I expected something similar with Kylo Ren, but it's not okay with Mary Sue Rey.
This is in retrospect of course, but even if Rey HAD turned out to be a Skywalker, it still wouldn't have explained her powers. It's not like Luke being the son of the most naturally gifted force wielder in history allowed him to use the force significantly without at least some training. Even Anakin himself needed to be trained before he could use the force.
I wish flims explain how things work. How can the sun be cusum by one big piece of metal? Maybe there's a power cell that can handle sun rays.
"I've got big plans I guess....."
+Adrian21 *Waves hand dismissively* "Ooh, good idea. Fire that thing we have"
I think the movie alright. However, I have to ask. When are Jensaarai1 and Antoine finally doing Scourge vs Kota?
When kylo called Finn a traitor I think he meant you betrayed supreme leader snoke
If only we knew what was to come.
I appreciated this, it was interesting to hear the different view points.
Personally, I loved it. I had my niggles and nitpicks and the awkwardness of things not having the significance they should was there for me, but I guess the acting just carried the film for me. I can admit that I am stupidly subjective when it comes to enjoying media in general, and this film got an emotional response out of me, so to me it was largely a net positive experience. It felt like Star Wars to me; I can't exactly quantify how, but... it just felt like Star Wars. *shrug*
Nevertheless, I'm glad to finally see agreement on the things that bothered me. Rey was too OP. Kylo Ren was too nerfed. I enjoyed the characters and was glad to see them take on their respective paths, but Rey's connection to the force just threw me for a loop... I literally ranted to my friends about how her ability to just use the force like that made no sense as we were walking out of the theater. I think the main thing about this film is that the pieces themselves all are good, they just don't fit together properly. The scenes of significance like Finn's disillusionment and the destruction of the Courascant wannabee still made an emotional impact on me and so while I still hold my critique of them, I feel that they added to the movie.
Personally, I'm a character driven media consumer. I like to see well written characters even if it is at the expense of plot. This movie had good characters, so subjectively I think it's absolutely fantastic. Objectively, I think it's pretty mediocre. I hope that Episode VIII can deliver. Back to the point, Han's death is what seals this movie for me. I freely admit this: if there is a particular scene of a movie that hits me hard emotionally, I have a tendency to not see the flaws of the movie because the moment justifies the movie to me (e.g. Luke's refusal to turn to the dark side and Vader's redemption alone made Episode VI my favorite movie.... ever) Han's death captured everything correctly (for me) and it hit me hard because before this film, I never was attached to Han Solo, I like him, but I didn't feel to strongly. This movie felt like he stole the show, that even though it really is about establishing the newbies, it's really his film. During the movie I was got attached and even hooked on this character. So seeing him go in a way that reached me so strongly colors my opinion about the whole work, and I admit that freely.
I see people ranking the films down below, so I'll give my own ranking(lowest to highest): 2,1,4,3,5,6
I'm not sure where 7 fits into this yet. Definitely higher than 1; definitely lower than 5.
To end with a question: Am I the only one sick of Superweapons in Star Wars? I mean... there's the Death Star, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, Planet Devastators, Star Forge, Mass Shadow Generator..... and i think there may be more yet past that. I think Star Wars has had its fill of doomsday bringers.
I fully expected the pandering. JJ was chosento direct the film, because he would be able to do the fanservice well enough to appeal to all sets of fans. He did his job and now new directors will be taking over so that the films can progress into new and better things. With what the fans wanted you should have expected this.
2:16:34 looks like Matt is channeling his inner solo from the end of empire strikes back.
GREYJEDI91!! Welcome back! =D
+Alexzander1989 He's back, he's brilliant, he recently released one of the greatest Star Wars videos of all time. If you haven't already go and watch his Story of Sharad Hett.
+Reti4
So best guess on Kylo Ren's actual lightsaber form?
If I had to take a stab in the dark, my best guess would be Shi-Cho or a rough application of Djem So =/
Nice review guys. But a few I wanna ask
Evan: Where is your season finale?!!!!!
Reti4: Where is Ahsoka Tano vs Bultar Swan? Seriously, it's been almost a year since the So Far-video!!!
Antoine: You're a nerd??????
Jensaarai: Are you and Antoine still working on Lord Scourge vs Rahm Kota?
Matt: Great profile for Sharad Hett.
Everyone: For the next Council Forcecast: Could you talk about the various Star Wars characters that will NOT be used in your versus series (Revan, Darth Nihilus etc.) and why they won't be used.
Thanks for your thought on the movie.
+Filip Stellberg Soon!
+Filip Stellberg Soon
Would have been kinda cool if they showed Luke react when the planets are destroyed
Oh also I wanted to see if one of you gents will make a video detailing the difference between the two types of form V. Yes, I know one was for blasters and the other for dueling, but one could use both for lightsaber to lightsaber combat, so how did they differ in that regard. Was one more like form II or was one more like III, etc. I think this topic really hasn't been discussed to the amount that it out to be.
+Calcifer “Maddog” Michaels I would say the difference between the two is a matter of what angle you approach your opponent. In my opinion, Shien works largely along the idea of dealing with multiple opponents, and hence it tends to focus on bobbing and weaving between assailants to minimize their angles of attack, while maximizing the effectiveness of their counteroffensive prowess. While this strategy works well against multiple enemies, it does tend to have problems dealing with dedicated duelist in single combat (kind of difficult to out turn an opponent when he only has you to worry about). Djem So on the other hand, applies a more Makashi approach, in the sense that the shortest distance between opponents is straight down the center line. This pattern is actually quite noticeable when watching the duels between Anakin and Dooku through the prequels. In the first duel Anakin was constantly trying to circle around Dooku, and get a swing at his flank, but all Dooku needed to do was caught off his attempts and keep him locked into his straight line. By the second fight Anakin has ditched this tactic for a sort of Djem So "rush of the bulls" approach, where he just slams himself into Dooku full force, and Dooku, do to his aging physicality and makashi's mechanical shortcomings to more kinetic forms of saber combat, ultimately faltered. There is a bit more but I'm sure any of the council members could expand and probably give a more in depth explanation of there tactics.
Here is what I would set the movie compared to the previous ones (at least at this time):
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
+Grand Admiral Thrawn
1. VII - The Force Awakens
2. V - The Empire Strikes Back
3. VI - Return of the Jedi
4. IV - A New Hope
5. III - Revenge of the Sith
6. I - The Phantom Menace
7. II - Attack of the Clones
+Freemind
1.empire strikes back
2.force awakens
3. New hope
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Return of the Jedi
6.phantom menace
7.attack of the clones
+Grand Admiral Thrawn
1. Return of the Jedi
2. The Force Awakens
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. A new Hope
6. Phantom Menace
7. Attack of the Clones
**edit I've seen ep7 twice now and after the 2nd viewing it takes 2nd place.
I wouldn't put revenge of the sith THAT high but I agree for the most part
1. Return of The Jedi
2. The Clone Wars TV Show (Don't care I love this show).
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. New Hope
5. Revenge of The Sith
6. Rebels (Show is growing on me).
7. Phantom Menence
8. Attack Of The Clones
hello guys would you all be willing to do a video on some of the weird things in the old EU and maybe the new one as well and talk about them? if not I under stand.
I wonder if Rey is actually the lost child of either Sabine and/or Ezra from Rebels? It makes sense to me, especially if Rebels is supposed to tie in with TFA somehow (excluding the Inquisitorius and the dark siders).
Looking back on this, it's almost hurtful how the first sequel was the best out of them. lol
Yeah, Rise of Skywalker couldn't even meet The Last Jedi's standards and Episode 8 is below sea level!
Snoke thoughts:
You don't know how big he is, he could be 4 foot tall, he could be human sized, he could be that big or he could be bigger; much bigger.
And then there is my theory; he is a halcyon, maybe of Plagius, maybe Palpatine, maybe of some other sith, maybe of some other Jedi. Perhaps Ren was corrupted by an encounter with this objects.
+EvanNova95
Yeah, Kenobi was so distracted when he was facing Maul and even went to attack him.
I like how at the end Reti is genuinely baffled as to how someone can like this movie. And I thought I was full of myself.
+Eric Dixon Apologies, I didn't intend to come across as arrogant. I just don't understand why the objective flaws of this film are being excused when the prequels were roasted alive. Sure they were bad films, but everything else about them blows Force Awakens out of the water. Granted it's still early days, PM had a free pass for a while too, but we've had the experience of that this time around so...
Reti4 I think a lot of these flaws are being overlooked because the film get's it right where it counts and for all intents and purposes it actually feels like a Star Wars film. So things like plot contrivances are overlooked because the OT had those same issues and we give those film a break too because they're well made.
Eric Dixon I might see your point, if the flaws with Force Awakens were in any way small. The characters are paper thin, the plot is completely ripped off and worse, painfully simple, the characters stumble through the film on plot convenience alone, there are plot holes on top of that, there's no emotional, narrative or thematic through-line present at all, the music is basically ambient (a mortal sin for a Star Wars film I'm sure you'd agree), the Villain is in no way threatening, Snoke is a joke, Han died in the most pathetically staged fashion ever with no build up and almost no payoff, the final fight was poorly shot and averagely choreographed, the "Force" moment with Rey was laughable with her not only in a blade lock but also bent double over the edge of a crevice, we know nothing whatsoever about the galaxy at large and therefore cannot care or even understand the significance of the situation, the Death Star mk 3 is undeniably a stupid idea both in universe and out, the humour is good but almost entirely misused and to cap it off Rey is a Mary Sue that may not even have the bad excuse of being a Skywalker to cover that - and if she is then the film suffers the issue of that fact being pointlessly and disruptively hidden from us.
Now that's all just off the top of my head, there are more problems and I haven't gone into any depth regarding these ones, but I hope you can at least appreciate that I have not decided the film is bad "because EU butt-hurt" as a lot of people seem to think. I was entirely ready to enjoy this film for its own sake despite the atrocity of the EU's deletion but I couldn't even do that with how bad it is on its own.
There are things I liked of course, the solid acting for one and the incredible effects for the Falcon and X-Wings etc. But nowhere near enough to warrant it being considered anything but "Barely Meh" in my eyes.
+Reti4 "The characters are paper thin"
Rey and Finn? Absolutely not. Poe? Sure.
"the plot is completely ripped off"
Eh..on paper they're pretty similar but any observation of the film will show you just how different TFA and ANH are.
"and worse, painfully simple"
ESB is the only film in the franchise that is kind of deep. Star Wars films has never been a nexus of thought provoking story telling and moral ambiguity. So let's not even.
"the characters stumble through the film on plot convenience alone, there are plot holes on top of that"
Again these are problems with the franchise.
"there's no emotional, narrative or thematic through-line present at all"
I'm not sure what this is really supposed to mean but all I know is that I was emotionally invested in Rey and felt for her situation. The shot where she etches another line into the wall and when she says "I didn't think there was this much green in the galaxy" tug at my heartstrings. Same goes for Finn seeing as how I've had to do desperate things to get out of a bad situation.
"the music is basically ambient (a mortal sin for a Star Wars film I'm sure you'd agree)"
The weakest soundtrack by far but it has it's moments.
"the Villain is in no way threatening"
Maybe that's because he's a villain in training. Literally.
"Snoke is a joke"
We know as much about Snoke than we did about Palpatine in ESB so it's unfair to say that when we don't even know the extent of his power or what his motivations are.
"Han died in the most pathetically staged fashion ever"
To be honest there would have been no preferable way to see Han die. I can't be objective about this at all.
"with no build up"
The only thing that would have really built this up would be a prequel novel/s. Even if they would have had a scene or two together it wouldn't have made much of a difference for me.
"and almost no payoff"
Kylo Ren's power and temperament in Episode VIII is going to be the payoff.
"the final fight was poorly shot and averagely choreographed"
I thought the direction was okay and the choreography felt like a real fight although I would like some refinement in Episodes VIII and IX
"the "Force" moment with Rey was laughable with her not only in a blade lock but also bent double over the edge of a crevice"
The bladelock over the crevice was definitely a movie moment. It's ridiculous but I see it as more of a nitpick
"we know nothing whatsoever about the galaxy at large"
This can be rectified in the sequels but there should have been one scene to establish the state of the galaxy. Even if it was two minutes
"Death Star mk 3 is undeniably a stupid idea both in universe and out"
No argument here.
"Rey is a Mary Sue that may not even have the bad excuse of being a Skywalker to cover that"
A lot of her supposedly being a Mary Sue has to do with her uprbringing. Now if she was a pathetic farmer like Luke and was still as competent then I'd understand.
+Lord Krius You won!
Ooh, I've got big plans I guess.
I felt that the pandering was because the film had something to prove. After the backlash of the Prequels being different in all the wrong ways from the originals. Now I'm sure we'll get FAR less nostalgia pandering in further projects. I hope...
Woah, Antoine! Seen it three times already?
I am planning on seeing it three times in theatres but with roughly 10 days in-between each viewing. Saw it now on the 17th, already bought my ticket to see it on the 27th in IMAX in London (I live in Iceland by the way) and am planning on using my free ticket from the company I work for to go and see it the third time on the 6th of January.
I hope to feel the same way as you do about after each viewing.
Small message to Reti4, I understand your view but obviously they aren't going to explain everything in the first movie. I am pretty sure the next two movies are going to explain more. You complained about not knowing more about Leader Snoke but we know more about him after this movie than we knew about the Emperor in the first of the Original trilogy.
reti your such a party pooper like how can you think the humor in the mind trick scene was missplaced it was perfect the best part of this movie is that it knows its a movie.
About Reys piloting abilities after she and Finn beat the Tie Fighters they are when they are congratulating each other she and Finn are talking over each she says she has flown some ships but hadn't left the planet so you could infer she had flown though that area before and was leading the TIEs to an area she has an advantage.
The feeling that I actually get from Kylo Ren's shifting in attitude throughout the movie is that indeed, in the first scenes of TFA, Kylo Ren has been displaying incredible feats as well as great confidence (certainly due to the moral corruption brought upon by the dark side), and his immersion in evil give him that badassery and the sarcastic edge he displays with both Hux and Daemeron.
However I think that I've been able to pinpoint the moment when he becomes less intimidating, and that moment is when Snoke warns him that his target has fled with Han Solo. From that point onwards people seem to feel that his character is downgraded to a whiner.
And in my opinion it is precisely the expectation of a confrontation with his father that makes his insecurities resurface, maybe because he still cannot cope with his own exactions.
And then we understand that not only does he suffers from an inferiority complex, but also that what he interprets as "the pull of the light" is actually more regret for his actions and a wish to make things right - which (with the fact that instead of carelessly killing officers like Vader did, he rather focuses his anger on disposable equipment) shows how he is still inherently good, and is indeed mentally unstable and under Snoke's near absolute control.
Which actually gives me hope for an eventual redemption of the character before the end, even though fans would never accept it after he killed Han ^^ (even though I would prefer him to die at the hands of Rey, Caedus-style (which is actually not uncompatible with a last second redemption))
The scene at the end with Luke was actually my second favorite scene.
why.... it was 45 seconds of rotation..
Because it's emotion over reason for me. If I like something, I don't care if I can't explain it. I've always been a bit of a Romanticist.
Joel Inzerillo It was an awfully awkward moment, I want the 45 seconds of my life back.
There's a huge plot hole in that tentacle scene with the monster. It really could have been ditched. The Imperials are still notified of their presence when they walk into the cantina.
I think that bit was more a cruddy attempt at Vader's Dun Moch tactics, trying to get into Finn's head. But that's just me.
I honestly think that Snoke basically employs an imitation of Krayt's rule of one.
I'm gonna write my own star wars 7 because I love writing lore. It's so fun creating planets, creatures, species. It makes me feel powerful.
Completely agree with reti4.
The reason why Poe randomly disappeared is because originally he was going to die in that crash. So they had to hastily reincorporate him into the movie. I'm glad though since Poe is great.
+Umesh Narayan It's still stupid. I mean why kill him that soon anyway? Why was that ever even on the table? He's definitely a likeable character, but he's ludicrously Gary Stuish.
+Reti4 I agree 100%
Rey is more of a Mary Sue than Poe for me because at least Poe got that scene where Kylo Ren mind tortured him. Rey was able to conquer every obstacle. She was too damn good. I mean she can best a trained swordsman without ever holding a lightsaber, shes a crack shot with a blaster even though she never shot one, ahe's an ace pilot and knows how to repair it better than Han Solo even though she's never flown a ship before.( Wouldn't that scene be cool if Poe was flying the Falcon and Rey and Finn were on the guns?)I get that the Force awakened in her but to quote Han "That's not how the force works!" For me Rey is now a boring character I don't care about and Kylo is weak and unimportant. Like the rest of the film I feel like with he character of Rey they went too far with the "empowered female" trope. Rey was an interesting character in the beginning and over the film they kinda lost me.
J.J. had the same problem with the hyper space jumps in star trek
I want to go to Matt's theater