the krueger, wacky waker, glitzer popping, wacko boingo.. yeah, it's 100% a thing, and it's grown in popularity over the years. some things are just funnier to hear than "my-name skip"
I absolutely love when the answer to getting a time to match the TAS in any speedgame is "screw it Im just gonna be as good as the TAS" and then the runner proceeds to be as good as if not better than the TAS lmao.
Only in punch out speedrunning will you hear things like "He used a (Freddy) Kreuger which was two frames faster than a Wacky Waker" The fact that you can say that while keeping a straight face is incredible to me.
My favorite thing about MTPO speed-running is how the redtom community gave everything a rad ass name. "This was called the Gelatin Slap" "...using the Hot Sauce back-flip caused him to throw one more hook and saved 7 frames" "This strategy was called Tom Hank's left nipple and it revolutionized the run"
Nice!! I caught some of salt's sandman grind and saw his stats on the side, but I didn't know the cool nitty gritty of how each punch worked, skipping the dlx delay, and so on. Thanks for the vid!
I hope you'll do a history of Mike Tyson's fight. I know Summoning Salt has his video, but it's outdated by now, and your videos go into a lot of depth concerning the mechanics of the game.
That mini Sandman was a glitch! I remember back in the days when I was still a boy the first I saw that happen I threw down the controller ran out the room and shouted mommy mommy, I mean I thought the game got possessed by a demon or something 🤷♂️
In the Soda Popinski history video 27:00 "jefeman wasn't usually much of an IL guy." In this video at 31:10 "In the realm of IL times, jefeman has achieved the pinnacle of excellence on every fight in the game."
Thats a fun observation. In the soda video, Im pretty sure I asked him specifically about that in his section, and he sort of downplayed how good he is, but I went along with it. For the Sandman video, im almost sure i wrote that in the script purely from what I thought of his skills. Reaching an "excellent" time in this game is sort of subjective aswell.
Hey so you may never see or read this but that's for you're valuable (while indirectly) into learning how to speedrun this game, being only 15 I hope that I can eventually find my way to the top, not saying it's going to happen but yeah I'd just like to thank you for making those videos, It's nice having those resources available to aspiring runners.
I see a lot of people in the comments noting the wacky names that some of the strats being discussed in this video have, but just remember that this phenomenon isn't really exclusive to just this game. That's pretty much how strat development/tech-finding/discovery happens in just about any environment/game. Ones I can name off the top of my head are things like Skate 3's "Backwards Man", Mario Kart 64's "Weathertenko", Halo's "Hog Stacking" 100 Ways to Stomp Knee in Super Smash Bros. Melee by SquidTheCat. (Go look up that series if you don't know what I'm talking about) So, yeah, coming up with creative and silly names is pretty much half the fun of the discipline of strat development in this scene, lol.
About how Mr Sandman never got beaten in R1. I don't even speedrun the game but I've done this, and ironically for the longest time he was my worst fight besides Tyson.
Incredible. A 6-way tie was the last WR before the TAS-Tie was pulled off by Salt. And hey, maybe someday another player will join Salt on the Sandman TAS Tie
This was an interesting deep dive into the progression to say the least. It seemed that if anyone wanted to look for improvements on the world record, it was a constant team effort to find results. Even for the old school players, this seemed like a pain, but they were slowly getting results.
Mr. sandman is my favorite fight in the game. Trying to squeeze every bit of damege within the time limit without star punches, it makes me wonder if the devs themselves beat mr sandman in R1. Also, the tas time beats mr sandman -after- the regular clock ends (some fights have different clock speeds).
>start watching video >recognize a few songs >one seem familiar >"wait it's Kula World" >only ever played demo >go look for OST because suddenly nostalgia trip >find the complete remastered OST >spend my entire breakfast listening to the soundtrack for a game that I never actually played Thanks for nothing, Pap. Now I have to emulate that game and actually play it.
@@Papamanual Oh yeah. I found the whole ost, it's quite the banger. I still prefer Ninja Shadow of Darkness' ost, though, the second level has such nice beats...
I’m both excited and a little sad to see this one, Pap! I know there’s only 1 more after this one, (unless, of course, you change your mind about what you said in the first episode and decide to give us an updated Mike Tyson video 😁)
The fact that Mr. Sandman requires you to get knocked down to get the absolute fastest time makes me wonder: how fast can each of the 14 fights be cleared without taking any damage? I imagine that some fights like Glass Joe and Super Macho Man (who needs Mac to be at full health for lower refills) are no different from the normal speedrun strategies, but I am curious if any fights besides Sandman are different as a result of the no-damage stipulation.
Don 2, people press select to start the fight with half health. If you arent at full health, then Don's second refill has a 1/8 chance to be just 40 health (56 health if you are at full health) so you can get a faster time by not being at full health.
@@PapamanualSorry for the late reply, but thanks for taking the time to answer. I guess that means that a no-damage speedrun of MTPO isn't that interesting a category to run because the only fights where a difference could be seen are Sandman and Don 2.
Woo been waiting for the continuation of the series. First impressions going in, surely can’t be as much of an RNG feat as Don but maybe I’ll be proven wrong hahaha
As always, love the posts Pap! So a question...are the TASes truly as low as the fight could go? Do people discover new lower TASes from time to time or has the code been so minutely examined, that these are the 'perfect' fights?
Of course TAS's can be more optimised... But eventually, the limit of the game is reached, and there will be no more timesaves. Whether we are already at that point or not, who knows. If we knew of anything else, it would be in the TAS. The game will never stop being 'combed' through.
While attempting to TAS my own minimum punch Sandman fight, I sutumbled across an unusual glitch by accident (I think it would be called a glitch; I have no idea what it is). In the middle of Round 2, I was abruptly sent back to the menu. Upon inputting down, I found that the passcode for Super Macho Man was still loadded in, which was the code I used to get to Sandman quickly, so it appears that this glitch doesn't erase whatever passcode is currently loaded in. I'm interested to what information is out there on this glitch, such as how it is triggered and what other locations in the game this could happen.
all passcodes are saved (even upon reset) in the game once you input it once except the Tyson code and the AWC code (AWC code does save if you lose naturally and return to menu, but not on reset)
Mr Sandman: Stars: R3 Only getting stars Hit Sandman with a delay gut punch while doing hooks Get a star by hitting him with a jab after the referee says “Fight!” Tips: Delay a gut punch to get extra damage At 0:50 force him to throw hooks by jabbing Points: NONE
What’s next? Isn’t it obvious? Salt, Zallard1, Sinister1, Funkdoc, Turk, etc have to speedrun an actual match against Tyson. It’s the only frontier left
One thing I'm actually curious about, you mentioned that Pallete Swapped fighters are very similar, we know that Bald Bull has double hits where you take full damage and he takes 1, does Sandman also have them? He's the only fight in the game that involves intentionally getting hit and also has spots where you need to spend time dealing 1 damage, so presumably if he did, doing a double hit would save time.
He doesnt because when you go for a face punch, he is programmed to dodge and counter with a hook.Although, there might be extra shenanigans you can do to set up a "better" scenario, but it would definitely result in a slower time. I also think i checked those shenanigans in my Low Score TAS and it didnt work out, he just dodges and retaliates with a hook.
I dont know of any, the only old community stuff i can find info on is RedToms website. There would have been a world record, but i dont think the strategy would be very interesting, more just either dodging and counter as fast as possible, or focring hooks and dodging and countering as fast as possible.
If his guard is up, its not frame perfect. If his guard is down, then it is. Usually, if you force the hook (which involves a face punch) his guard is up since you would have been holding up to execute the face punch.
So wait, if Mr Dream is from Dreamland, and Mr Sandman takes you to dreamland, does that mean Mr Sandman is Mr Dreams father?? Is Mr Sandman the god of dreamland??
you usually talk about NTSC vs PAL. Where there are local Japanese NTSCJ differences due to northern and southern Japan having different TV standards. Does the affect game play in any way?
I simply dont have other ideas for GT4. There are a few other GT4 challenge run content creators (cant name any off the top of my head right now) and its a miracle I couldnt find a 200pt races only video hadnt already been done. IMO, most other challenge run ideas ive come across arent as cool or versatile as 200pt race (things like beating the game with only a certain make of car). Maybe ill tackle the 200pt endurance races or something next
Yes, he is the most interesting fight in the game imo, and has the coolest strategies, lots of little things to talk about too. Vid is like 40-45 mins i think.
I never understood the significance or interest of speed running. I’d be happy to be enlightened by anyone to get a better understanding of why people like it so much.
I think the idea is that by completing the game as fast as possible, you demonstrate a kind of mastery of the game. Plus, it gives a little variety to a game you love that you might have otherwise gotten your fill of playing casually. And for those who watch speedruns, perhaps the appeal is from watching that same mastery in action, even if they can't pull it off themselves. I could be wrong, though. I personally prefer watching videos that explain the speedruns than the speedruns themselves. Plus, it could just boil down to "different strokes for different folks". People do have varying preferences, after all.
The promise of world record glory is one thing, but I'm starting to think the true incentive for finding new strats is coming up with cool names
do you mean silly names?
@@vietnam_so_good Could be both or either one.
the krueger, wacky waker, glitzer popping, wacko boingo.. yeah, it's 100% a thing, and it's grown in popularity over the years. some things are just funnier to hear than "my-name skip"
@@turingtestingmypatience"elevator sip"
I absolutely love when the answer to getting a time to match the TAS in any speedgame is "screw it Im just gonna be as good as the TAS" and then the runner proceeds to be as good as if not better than the TAS lmao.
Only in punch out speedrunning will you hear things like "He used a (Freddy) Kreuger which was two frames faster than a Wacky Waker"
The fact that you can say that while keeping a straight face is incredible to me.
I just tell stories, whether i say them with a straight face or not is up to you to interpret lol
mr sandman, man me a sand
make him the cutest man car door hook hand
@@camila314Give him two sands like sandses and handses
@@rordongamsay8478and tell him that his sands and mans are handses
And then sand hand hook hand car sanddoor.
Haha hotdiggedydemon
He'll send me to Dream Land? I LOVE Kirby!
Replying before this comment blows up
Famous last Words.
If you hallucinate enough you could probably see it
I really did forget to a use a OST from a kirby game :/
@@Papamanual 😂😂😂
I love the clever nicknames that specific punches/strategies get in MTPO speedruns
The dedication to find the strategies has always amazed me. The nicknames just show how much they love it.
My favorite thing about MTPO speed-running is how the redtom community gave everything a rad ass name.
"This was called the Gelatin Slap"
"...using the Hot Sauce back-flip caused him to throw one more hook and saved 7 frames"
"This strategy was called Tom Hank's left nipple and it revolutionized the run"
Nice!! I caught some of salt's sandman grind and saw his stats on the side, but I didn't know the cool nitty gritty of how each punch worked, skipping the dlx delay, and so on. Thanks for the vid!
0:48 gotta love the Mr. Sndmn cameo
I hope you'll do a history of Mike Tyson's fight. I know Summoning Salt has his video, but it's outdated by now, and your videos go into a lot of depth concerning the mechanics of the game.
Another awesome video. You are a master of these Pap. Thank you also for the kind words. Much appreciated!
That mini Sandman was a glitch! I remember back in the days when I was still a boy the first I saw that happen I threw down the controller ran out the room and shouted mommy mommy, I mean I thought the game got possessed by a demon or something 🤷♂️
In the Soda Popinski history video 27:00 "jefeman wasn't usually much of an IL guy."
In this video at 31:10 "In the realm of IL times, jefeman has achieved the pinnacle of excellence on every fight in the game."
Thats a fun observation. In the soda video, Im pretty sure I asked him specifically about that in his section, and he sort of downplayed how good he is, but I went along with it. For the Sandman video, im almost sure i wrote that in the script purely from what I thought of his skills.
Reaching an "excellent" time in this game is sort of subjective aswell.
The most exciting part of the high score run is FINALLY getting stars on Sandy... nearly makes the whole thing worth it.
We'll get our time to shine soon enough Tom :D
awesome work unearthing and documenting all of the past knowledge in these progression vids. this one was surprisingly great!
Hey so you may never see or read this but that's for you're valuable (while indirectly) into learning how to speedrun this game, being only 15 I hope that I can eventually find my way to the top, not saying it's going to happen but yeah I'd just like to thank you for making those videos, It's nice having those resources available to aspiring runners.
@@Top_gear2021 Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad they've helped you enjoy this great game
@@Ouijawii you're welcome, it honestly means the world the world that your replied in the first place :)
I'm gonna pretend I watched the entire video despite it being published literally 2 minutes ago.
Update: I did watch the entire video afterwards, it was very good, thank you Mr. Pap
These videos are really incredible, it’s a treat to have content so in-depth for any one speedgame
I see a lot of people in the comments noting the wacky names that some of the strats being discussed in this video have, but just remember that this phenomenon isn't really exclusive to just this game. That's pretty much how strat development/tech-finding/discovery happens in just about any environment/game. Ones I can name off the top of my head are things like Skate 3's "Backwards Man", Mario Kart 64's "Weathertenko", Halo's "Hog Stacking" 100 Ways to Stomp Knee in Super Smash Bros. Melee by SquidTheCat. (Go look up that series if you don't know what I'm talking about) So, yeah, coming up with creative and silly names is pretty much half the fun of the discipline of strat development in this scene, lol.
That Halo music takes me back.
You looped it at a weird point though. Kept jarring me. 😂
Sending me to dream land?kirby is my sister now,thanks sandman!
You have such dedication churning out these world record history videos. Thank you so much for being an amazing content creator and historian!
About how Mr Sandman never got beaten in R1.
I don't even speedrun the game but I've done this, and ironically for the longest time he was my worst fight besides Tyson.
Incredible. A 6-way tie was the last WR before the TAS-Tie was pulled off by Salt.
And hey, maybe someday another player will join Salt on the Sandman TAS Tie
This was an interesting deep dive into the progression to say the least. It seemed that if anyone wanted to look for improvements on the world record, it was a constant team effort to find results. Even for the old school players, this seemed like a pain, but they were slowly getting results.
Mr. sandman is my favorite fight in the game. Trying to squeeze every bit of damege within the time limit without star punches, it makes me wonder if the devs themselves beat mr sandman in R1. Also, the tas time beats mr sandman -after- the regular clock ends (some fights have different clock speeds).
>start watching video
>recognize a few songs
>one seem familiar
>"wait it's Kula World"
>only ever played demo
>go look for OST because suddenly nostalgia trip
>find the complete remastered OST
>spend my entire breakfast listening to the soundtrack for a game that I never actually played
Thanks for nothing, Pap. Now I have to emulate that game and actually play it.
Same, I only ever played the Demo lol. It has a sweet soundtrack though - think it was made by a swedish music duo, cant remember the name right now.
@@Papamanual Oh yeah. I found the whole ost, it's quite the banger.
I still prefer Ninja Shadow of Darkness' ost, though, the second level has such nice beats...
I like hearing the use of mystery dungeon songs in these videos
I recognize them instantly (although not always by name)
I’m both excited and a little sad to see this one, Pap! I know there’s only 1 more after this one, (unless, of course, you change your mind about what you said in the first episode and decide to give us an updated Mike Tyson video 😁)
The fact that Mr. Sandman requires you to get knocked down to get the absolute fastest time makes me wonder: how fast can each of the 14 fights be cleared without taking any damage? I imagine that some fights like Glass Joe and Super Macho Man (who needs Mac to be at full health for lower refills) are no different from the normal speedrun strategies, but I am curious if any fights besides Sandman are different as a result of the no-damage stipulation.
Don 2, people press select to start the fight with half health. If you arent at full health, then Don's second refill has a 1/8 chance to be just 40 health (56 health if you are at full health) so you can get a faster time by not being at full health.
@@PapamanualSorry for the late reply, but thanks for taking the time to answer. I guess that means that a no-damage speedrun of MTPO isn't that interesting a category to run because the only fights where a difference could be seen are Sandman and Don 2.
At this rate salt only has a few weeks left to break the 2 minute mark on Tyson. It will be the ultimate finish to this series
Great job Colton! Keep up the good work!
I thought this was SummoningSalt's channel so i thought "why is SummoningSalt talking about himself in the third person?"
Mr Sandman can't be beaten by knockout until his sixth knockdown, and you also can't win by decision against him at all.
Punch Out fans creating the weirdest names for a punch that hits Sandman’s left pores rather than one of his right ones
awesome video as usual, love these WR progression videos.
Love how you always use Pokemon Mystery Dungeon music as well haha
I can't wait to see Macho and maybe Tyson. I always am eager to see videos from you. Keep up the good work Pap!
I been wanting for this video I knew you would make it at some point!
Woo been waiting for the continuation of the series. First impressions going in, surely can’t be as much of an RNG feat as Don but maybe I’ll be proven wrong hahaha
Ooh, now I'm curious about what Summoning salt was going to do right after finishing his Sandman grind. Does anyone know?
Go on my honeymoon
@@SummoningSalt Good on ya, man. I hope you had a great time!
Great video pap!
Great video. I'm pretty sure you can get stars in round 2 with Sandman. I was just playing and got 1 yesterday. I was also drinking though.
Great job Pap!
red tom is such a legend tbh
As always, love the posts Pap! So a question...are the TASes truly as low as the fight could go? Do people discover new lower TASes from time to time or has the code been so minutely examined, that these are the 'perfect' fights?
Of course TAS's can be more optimised... But eventually, the limit of the game is reached, and there will be no more timesaves. Whether we are already at that point or not, who knows. If we knew of anything else, it would be in the TAS. The game will never stop being 'combed' through.
While attempting to TAS my own minimum punch Sandman fight, I sutumbled across an unusual glitch by accident (I think it would be called a glitch; I have no idea what it is). In the middle of Round 2, I was abruptly sent back to the menu. Upon inputting down, I found that the passcode for Super Macho Man was still loadded in, which was the code I used to get to Sandman quickly, so it appears that this glitch doesn't erase whatever passcode is currently loaded in. I'm interested to what information is out there on this glitch, such as how it is triggered and what other locations in the game this could happen.
all passcodes are saved (even upon reset) in the game once you input it once except the Tyson code and the AWC code (AWC code does save if you lose naturally and return to menu, but not on reset)
fantastically done, pap
I wonder who will be able to unsummon the salt
it's past your bedtime Pap
I dunno why PMD combos so well with Punch Out WR history but I certainly enjoy it!
Mr Sandman:
Stars: R3 Only getting stars
Hit Sandman with a delay gut punch while doing hooks
Get a star by hitting him with a jab after the referee says “Fight!”
Tips: Delay a gut punch to get extra damage
At 0:50 force him to throw hooks by jabbing
Points: NONE
These guys were running out of names 💀
17:00 *watches The Quest To Beat Matt Turk*
ctrl+c
ctrl+v
What’s next? Isn’t it obvious? Salt, Zallard1, Sinister1, Funkdoc, Turk, etc have to speedrun an actual match against Tyson. It’s the only frontier left
You mean Funkmeister? Funkdoc is a different dude afaik
@@Papamanual ooops! Yeah you’re right
One thing I'm actually curious about, you mentioned that Pallete Swapped fighters are very similar, we know that Bald Bull has double hits where you take full damage and he takes 1, does Sandman also have them? He's the only fight in the game that involves intentionally getting hit and also has spots where you need to spend time dealing 1 damage, so presumably if he did, doing a double hit would save time.
He doesnt because when you go for a face punch, he is programmed to dodge and counter with a hook.Although, there might be extra shenanigans you can do to set up a "better" scenario, but it would definitely result in a slower time. I also think i checked those shenanigans in my Low Score TAS and it didnt work out, he just dodges and retaliates with a hook.
What about world records from before round 1 strategy? Or nobody really bothered with this fight until it was discovered?
I dont know of any, the only old community stuff i can find info on is RedToms website.
There would have been a world record, but i dont think the strategy would be very interesting, more just either dodging and counter as fast as possible, or focring hooks and dodging and countering as fast as possible.
I love you man keep going😂❤
question: is sandman's nightmare frame perfect? red tom's page simply says "delayed gut punch" so I would assume not.
If his guard is up, its not frame perfect. If his guard is down, then it is. Usually, if you force the hook (which involves a face punch) his guard is up since you would have been holding up to execute the face punch.
So wait, if Mr Dream is from Dreamland, and Mr Sandman takes you to dreamland, does that mean Mr Sandman is Mr Dreams father??
Is Mr Sandman the god of dreamland??
I audibly gasped when I saw this video was dropped.
Great series
YOOOO UNREAL TOURNAMENT MUSIC!?
Totally not me yesterday trying 3 hours to beat sandman and failing
Well this is surely mr sandman man .
Kinda wild how different Sandman looks on CRT 21:21 and emulation 23:01
Funny how Mr. Sandman outranks Super Macho Man in every game but this one.
Pretty sure Macho outranks Sandman in Super Punch-Out!! on SNES aswell
@@Papamanual Isn't Macho the national champion or whatever the mid road is, while Sandman is the third path World champion?
@@Papamanual Never mind looked it up, it's reversed.
I guess Wii is the one where Sandman outranks him, too much time at the beach Macho.
Damn, taking a long time for making macho
I do other things and i didnt start making it immediately after this video, currently 36 minutes edited though.
The 38:20 bait and switch is perfect.
you usually talk about NTSC vs PAL. Where there are local Japanese NTSCJ differences due to northern and southern Japan having different TV standards. Does the affect game play in any way?
I dont think so.
the OG punch out final boss
I don't understand why people say Sandman is harder than Macho Man...
Nice!
My prediction is that the last History Of will be Mr Dream instead of Mike Tyson
Well... 6 months later, it's been covered, and both Tyson and Dream are there.
please return to Gran Turismo, your 200 points vid was fucking amazing
I simply dont have other ideas for GT4. There are a few other GT4 challenge run content creators (cant name any off the top of my head right now) and its a miracle I couldnt find a 200pt races only video hadnt already been done.
IMO, most other challenge run ideas ive come across arent as cool or versatile as 200pt race (things like beating the game with only a certain make of car). Maybe ill tackle the 200pt endurance races or something next
Will this record ever be beaten?
I'm pretty sure that it would require a whole new discovery to be made.
@@airmanon7213 agreed
@@airmanon7213 would you agree he is the hardest guy on the game to be beat.
@@kingsecho3351 I've never played it myself, so I can't really agree or disagree
@@airmanon7213 you haven’t played the game?
This video was crazy!!
- video posted only 10 minutes ago
Afraid?
Mr sandman probably listens to Metallica (Enter Sandman)
Its funny because its Always sinister and Zallard🤣
They were basically the only 2 people from early to mid 2010's
8:19 AYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
no hes not
WOOOOOOO
I'm gonna guess macho's got a lot to talk about? lol
Yes, he is the most interesting fight in the game imo, and has the coolest strategies, lots of little things to talk about too. Vid is like 40-45 mins i think.
Yes very goood
I never understood the significance or interest of speed running. I’d be happy to be enlightened by anyone to get a better understanding of why people like it so much.
I think the idea is that by completing the game as fast as possible, you demonstrate a kind of mastery of the game. Plus, it gives a little variety to a game you love that you might have otherwise gotten your fill of playing casually. And for those who watch speedruns, perhaps the appeal is from watching that same mastery in action, even if they can't pull it off themselves.
I could be wrong, though. I personally prefer watching videos that explain the speedruns than the speedruns themselves. Plus, it could just boil down to "different strokes for different folks". People do have varying preferences, after all.
@@airmanon7213 makes sense to me! Thanks.
@@GN-dp7ej No problem!
I am only tenth? Well done.
Yo
Man, when you have and unskippable AD and then another excessively long one, that just makes me not watch your Channel
I dont get to pick the type of ads. The only thing I get to choose is *IF* there are midrolls or not. UA-cam does the rest.
@@Papamanual Does make me wonder how UA-cam determines which ads to play on the videos that have the midroll ads.
This has always been my favourite fighter puch out