He's pragmatic, ruthless, yet allies can trust that he won't forget his supporters (not an opportunist or impulsive psychopath). This makes him predictable, but to his enemies he remains a ghost (use of proxis, subtle moves...). That makes him special.
Army of Ninjas Exactly. A lot of people just simply label him as 'evil' without considering that fact that it was *necessary for Tywin to be 'evil' in those situations to gain power and success.* For example, *the murder of Elia and her children* was beyond horrific yet *necessary for the rebellion.* Unlike Joffrey, he's *not unnecessarily bloodthirsty and sadistic.* He puts a *stop to the torture of the prisoners at Harrenhal* because it was *deemed unnecessary* and it would be far wiser to *put those prisoners to work.* He's *intelligent enough to weigh the political reality* with his own personal petty vengeance which is what *distinguishes him with Cersei.* He has that *perfect balance of political astuteness and ruthlessness.* He has political astuteness that *prevents his judgements from being blinded by his desire for personal revenges* (unlike Cersei who alienated herself from her most powerful ally for her own petty vengeance) yet is *ruthless enough to not let morals and ethics get in his way* (unlike Ned Stark whose honor prevented him from taking power and rather got him killed) which is why *he's so competent.* If only he could realize Tyrion's potential, House Lannister would be the most powerful house
Imagine how Tywin felt after sending Joffery to bed without his dinner. All his latter life there was only ever a king who was above him, and he was then above even the king.
Well this King is his Grandson and the kings baratheon side is all but wiped out. Tywin is still the Lord of the Rock. The power of the Crown isn't as great in times of Rebellion.
If Rhaegar and Tywin plotted to kill Aerys during Defiance of Duskendale and were so close why Tywin didnt help him in Battle of the Trident - there is just no sense in this theory. No offense but Aerys II was mad and dumb.
Not a lot of people liked Tywin. But I actually liked him a LOT. He was one of my favorite characters... He was a good leader, decisive, and even though he could be harsh, he kept things peaceful.
Also Tywin didn't join Roberts Rebellion until after Rheagar was killed. Once he received that news, he immediately went to KL. Goes with the theory of them working together.
@LagiNaLangAko23 Tyrells are another opportunistic bunch, just like Tywin. They thought Robert wouldn't win, but they don't want to take the chances of capturing Robert for Aerys, given how Aerys is. They decided to besiege Storm's End for months when they could've taken it with force in an instant. They didn't take account Rhaegar's death or Tywin's involvement, but they did take account that both sides might win. For if the war went too long, it means Robert is losing, and when Storm's End fall, the Tyrells play a huge deal in Robert's downfall. But if the war ends quickly, which can only happen if Robert wins, Storm's End would still be besieged and the Tyrells can easily swear fealty to Robert without his animosity that might otherwise come should Storm's End fall and Stannis and his family butchered.
Tywin was being pushed to this if he did take part in getting rid of The king...The king basically nudged everyone against him despite any justice he served correctly it became about how he did his deeds and he did nothing but harm to his own hand who never sought glory of the throne...he offered the man a queen for his son. I back The king on his actions against the Starks but he basically wrongs the people closest to him with no damn reason
that's a really good point...his presence was his power...he didn't flaunt his gold...he dressed impeccably and had the nicest armor in the Seven Kingdoms, but they were more of a symbol of his power...it's the medieval equivalent of the power suit
Great series, but I wish you would add the video number in the thumbnail or at the beginning of the title. Otherwise it’s hard to distinguish which video to watch next because the title always gets cut off.
Never thought of Tywin’s involvement in the Tourney of Harrenhall! I love the idea of Tywin and Rhaegar working together. And Tywin as Rhaegar’s male role-model and father-figure - wow! We saw Tywin with children - okay, in the TV show they added the scene with Arya, but the way he treats Tommen, softening his approach because he knows he’d just frighten Tommen to the point he’d avoid his grandfather and he’d have no influence...I can see how he’d take Rhaegar under his wing, guiding him.
some battles are won with a sword and some are won with a pen. Could you imagine a Hand library id love to see what Tywin wrote over his 20 years as hand great video loved this series
I just thought of something as I re-read ACOK. Balon Greyjoy was detailing his plans for attacking the North while Robb was South at war. He goes on to say "Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back the North...and if he fool enough to try, his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him, and Robb the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle". Do you think Tywin reached out to Balon and had some sort of deal with him, in exchange for betraying Robb? He did it w/the Bolton's, Frey's, and attempted to get the Manderlys to withdraw their support of Robb. So I can't dismiss that he'd play on the Ironmen's hatred for House Stark and manipulate the situation.
I would have to go back and really disect everything Balon says and Tywin says to be sure, because Tywin was a sly dog and it takes re-reading the books a half a dozen times to even start catching all the things he set up, but I will say that it sounds very Tywinesque
Blabla Tarantino...that is an excellent point...he pays the iron price...he won't stop talking about it...then again, he might be all talk and have already talked to Tywin...
It's hard to say, Baon said "Tywin is to cunning by half" when Theon suggested attacking Lannisport. Tywin could have easily reached out to him. Balon must have kept a close eye on Tywin, a man who is good at looking innocent to everyone else, this would be especially hard for Balon since he doesn't keep a maester and therefore has little to no correspondence with other notable people in Westeros who might make him privy to Tywins possible actions. If Balon wasn't doing an amazing enough job of watching him from afar to not want fight him, than he knew how Tywin worked from personal experience from dealing with him directly. Mind you, if Tywin reached out to Balon, he very well may not have tried to intimidate Balon into working with him because the Greyjoy's have too much ride to allow themselves to submit to anothers superiority, Tywin most likely played on Balon's weaknesses by letting him know the opportunity to avenge his sons and possibly get Theon back was coming. After all we see Tywin use the perfect tact and flattery when convincing Tyrion's mountain clans to fight the Northmen and he only had a few moments time of knowing them to decide how to go about convincing them and he did a flawless job, Balon would have been a pushover as well because he has pride and a need for revenge that makes him easy to exploit. I doubt Tywin mentioned anything about a crown if he promised the north to the Greyjoys, but it wouldn't matter either way because if the Greyjoys decided to crown themselves and win the North, they would be weakened from both losing men taking the North and they would have to spread themselves so thin to hold the North that it could easily be retaken by a southron army if need be afterwards and then they would be so few in number that the Iron Islands would be even easier to take from the Greyjoys, and Joffrey would probably would have had them all put to death for taking up a crown. So the Lannisters then would have been able to take the Iron Islands and the North. All that being said, it could very easily been the case that Tywin had not reached out to Balon but Balon had no wish to attack Lannisport anyway because he was wise enough to know that he didn't have enough power to mess with the Lannisters or even the full strength of the North for that matter and he was banking on Robb Stark being too busy with Tywin Lannister to march back North. Tywin revealed to Tyrion that he was hoping to keep Ned alive to avoid war with the North so he could deal with Renly and Stannis. I doubt Tywin made an offer to Balon if he had no intention of fighting Robb but Balon started to marshal his own strength immediately in preparation to invade the North as soon as heard that Robb had marched his strength south.
"Poisoning the well" is what people do when they denounce others as "conspiracy theorists" if the latter has a contrary and/or controversial view. It happens.
Tywin was ruthless and competent. That doesn't make him a saint, but it puts him leagues ahead of aerys(brutal and incompetent), Robert (just incompetent), Joffrey (cruel and incompetent) or Tonmen (kind and gentle, but again, incompetent). There's only one person in Westeros fit to fill Tywin's shoes, and that's Tyrion.
Green hand, I saw your name dropped by 5 other youtube viewers on a major 195k site to help people whom had asked questions. You and Gemma at secrets of the Citadel have the best content on youtube! Closing in on 10k!
My husband is not a book reader and only watches the show because I do. He always says your videos are better then the show. We just finished this video and he said he now understands why I say Tywin is one of my Favorite and that when I say Show Tywin sucks he now understands. My husband says it sounds like the show creators didnt like Tywin and wrote their dislike into the show. Great Job with all your facts. Keep up with these awesome videos and YOU may just get my husband to read the books.
He has READ the dark tower books. Those make Ice and Fire seem like nothing. It not the length of the books it the fact that he is not much of a fiction reader. He prefers Metaphysics and such. But the Dark tower and King is one book set NO ONE should miss. My husband also says. He dosnt need to read GRRM because I tell him everything episode by episode. He has also watched a ton of youtube videos with me. Well more like he is playing games on the xbox while I watched videos on the computer. SO he says he knows it all. But your videos make him want to know more. In the end he prob wont read them because he is also not much of a mid-evil fan. Tyrion and Eddard is what hooked him on the show. Thats prob all i will get out of him. Now the Dark tower books. Those are some I would like to see you guys do also. My husband agrees with that also. I am also sure tons of your fans on your page would love to see you guys do other books. Think about it. Expand what you do. Grab more of that Sci-Fi fan base out there.
And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all. It is known. Thanks for uploading your efforts and adding the depth of character Tywin deserves.
Congratulations on your growth! I've even heard your channel referenced in other you tube GOT channels. Many of the references were in the comment sections recommending your page. WTG😀
Fascinating perspective! I must admit that I took it as fact that the mad king was indeed mad. I hadn't noted that, "gray suckered coont" (northern accent) pycel, had written the history of the rein. Great content and presentation. Best regards!
Tywin' legacy, about what he was speaking in this scen and to Arya in Harrenhall, is: - the war, which tore apart the Seven Kingdoms into thousand pieces, worms, murderers and traitors (Freys, Boltons) ruling and harassing - the anarchy, where almost all of the long-ruling major Houses are extinct - the huge, unpayable debt to the Iron Bank of Braavos - Anarchy. No central power, real king, who would unite and prepare the Seven Kingdoms for the War for the Dawn and defend the Realm - The example what he has given to everyone: with betrayal, murder, breaking guest right everyone is able to grab power: open the field for worms - Starvation for Westeros in Winter. Death for the people of Westeros during Winter with ignoring any threat for the Realm in the North, not preparing the REalm for the fight, which will cost millions of lives. I would like to mention, that it was a cut scene, where Varys reported Tywin in the Small Council about Mance and the wildling army attacking the Wall and the Nightswatch is asking for more men to defend the Realm. And Tywin's choice for that: not sending help to defend the Realm, but leave the Nightswatch alone against 100 000 wildlings, so the wildlings can attack Robb Stark in the back in the North. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But if you think about, this is exactly what Cersei is going to do with the Nightking's army of dead according to the leaks: just not care about that and not doing her duty as queen defending the Realm. So: Tywin's legacy after the Great War: - He, his children and his granchildren dead. House Lannister will extinct in the end (except of Tyion I hope), the Lannister name will be a curse for the afterage, everyone avoiding them like pest. And the Starks will rule, with Jon Snow as an eternal king, I think.
Orsolya Pámer that's all what happened, but the blame for it all can't be put on Tywin alone. He was a brilliant man who put in harsh measures toward his enemies yes, but that doesn't mean he had anything to do with the Greyjoy's, nor could he control the stupid actions of Cersei who should rightly be held responsible for the downfall of the Lannister house. As for the wildlings, again it could be said he left it alone intentionally. But think about it, his armies just won against Stannis, Joffrey had died and he had a thousand things to do in Kings Landing alone. Not only that the Wildlings were never a big issue for Lannisters. They were a far away threat they had never had to deal with. He would have dealt with them if he had too, but he had more pressing issues at home. Few would have acted under the circumstances he was in, against the wildlings. Tywin was a prick, but he wasn't as evil as all that.
And about Tywin being a so famous and intelligent strategist... 1. He had not participated in Robert's Rebellion, only after it was clear, that Robert and Ned will win. After Rhaegar died at the Battle of the Trident. Then instead of fighting he get into KL by Pycelle's treason, sacked the city and let the Mountain kill Elia and the two Targaryen children. And he get into Robert's favours with the bodies of the dead children. Whoa, what a great strategy... 2. He was not able to win a single battle against Robb on the field, although he outnumbered Robb 2, maybe 3 times, and had the homeland closer (supplies, etc.), than Robb. So he orchestrated the Red wedding instead to meet with him on the field. What a great strategist... 4. He had barely anything done against the other kings of the War of the 5 kings. Stannis murdered Renly, he did care about Balon Greyjoy, nor Mance and the wildling army threatening the Realm in the North. He had "saved" KL against Stannis with the Tyrells, after Tyrion has taken care most of Stannis's army with the wildfire trick. At that point Tywin with the Tyrells has outnumbered Stannis 2, maybe 3 times. Or more. He rode in, and claimed the victory for himself. What a great strategist. Anyway: Tywin has never won anything in clear battle, with equal, or worst chances, than his enemies. He is not so great strategist, as he is told. He won his victories only by treason, and murders - or conventiently outnumbered the enemy 2-3 times, like in KL.
I've had y'all in my subscription list for a while. I'm ashamed to say that I've just now started watching your videos. They are AWESOME!! Got lots to catch up on. Y'all do an INCREDIBLE JOB!!!🐺🐲🔥❄🌹🌠🐙😀😀😀😀
It always bothered me that Cersei dismissed the advice of GM Pycelle so easily. Grand Maester is not a title to be taken lightly, regardless of how irritating his act or personality may be, he's lived a life of service and great knowledge. It's a shame that Cersei is such a royal cunt. I do rather like Qyburn tho nonetheless
Thank you...we don't ask everyone to agree...we disagree with 99% of other people who read the books so it would be a tad ridiculous for us to demand that others agree with us...just that people go about it like you do (like a normal person) instead of acting like we are spreading lies about their mothers
The Order of the Green Hand Do you think, that Tywin killed Steffon Baratheon? He benefits very much from Steffon´s death (he is now secure as hand, because Aerys wanted to replace Tywin with Steffon and arrrest Tywin) and Aerys thinks that Tywin killed Steffon.
I find it difficult to believe that Tywin could have pulled that off...Robert and Stannis saw the ship sink because of a storm...Tywin is a masterful puppet master, but I don't see anything in his background that would indicate he can control the weather...but he definitely benefited greatly from Steffon's death...that can't be denied...if it was a rumor that the boat sank in a storm, I might believe that Tywin played a role in it's sinking, but I deep Stannis about as reliable a source as we get in the story...if he says he saw it with his own eyes, he saw it with his own eyes
Yes, the ship sank during an storm. But maybe the ship was manipulated? Or maybe Patchface was a lannister asassin or a faceless man or sth. lke that? Maybe he murdered Steffon at some point during the journey home and the storm, as lucky coincidence, just covered the murder even better up. Tywin must have thought, that if Steffon succeeds, he would loose everything. A master player of the game of thrones would have a plan at this point...
A small jar of Wildfire in the bottom of the ship would be enough to put a fatal hole in the ship but not so much that it would blow it to pieces, and who would question a ship sinking in Ship-Breaker Bay?
great series! Tywin is a boss! I can't help but think if Ned would of taken a page out of Tywin's and Cregan Stark's book on how to be a Hand of the King - he would came out on top and kept his head:D
it has always been speculated that the price was the financier of the tourney. with him winning all the tilts supporting it. varys whispering about a secret council, bringing the king out. this tywin thing is good, it gives insight into his patience and scemes. you to are magnificent!!!a true treat! with the mad king showing up, did that spur the whole lyanna "abduction " into high gear? when does tywin bring the iron bank into the picture? i mean3x the purse. ...
Rhaegar appears to have been really good at jousting...there are only two references to him jousting in tourneys, the first was in Viserys' birth celebration tourney in Lannisport in 276, which he lost in the final tilt to Arthur Dayne at the age of 17, and this Tourney at Harrenhal, which he won...in both, he defeated Barristan Selmy (the best lance in the seven kingdoms), among other notable knights...Barristan Selmy thinks back on it and wishes he won that tilt, because it might have spared the realm a war if he (barristan) named Ashara queen of love and beauty instead of Rhaegar naming Lyanna...I don't think Lyanna was part of the plan...I feel like it was more of a fatal attraction/love at first sight thing...the Knight of the Laughing Tree story references his singing and playing of the harp made her cry...I feel like there was a moment or something that he looked up when he was playing and their eyes met and their plan went a little off the rails without Tywin there to stop him
Another good video -- the difficulty I have is that Tywin could not have had a good reaction to Rhaegar marrying Elia instead of Cersei. Maybe Tywin supported Rhaegar until that point but not after. So, the idea that Tywin engineered the Defiance of Duskendale to get Rhaegar on the throne is a lot more plausible than the Harrenhal.
I see Tywin as more logical than that. He obviously would have known that Rhaegar couldn't undo his fathers arrangement of a betrothal to Elia and being a man that adapts to changing circumstances in a matter of seconds would likely have diverted his attention to a future betrothal of his grandchildren to Rhaegar's future son or something like that
I really enjoy your videos very much, extremely informative, you guys do a lot of the ground work to pump out ideas and concepts regarding the lore, that I don't see on any other channels. Thank you to you both for doing this, I know it's a lot of work.
How have I found you guys this late? Your videos rock and you've gained a new subscriber :) Now please excuse me while I go binge watching on your channelpage.
The Order of the Green Hand : But you also open the door to have readers ask themselves what other "truths" we think we know about Aerys were possibly just manipulations devised by Tywin and Pycell. So I agree you are not saying that Aerys is 100% good and just misunderstood, but you are suggesting we look at him again with a critical eye. Which, to the point of my original response, was the last thing I ever expected to hear, So congrats for continuing to make people think a little deeper about ASOIAF.
Sorry...I thought you were saying that you thought we were taking something resembling a pro-Aerys stance, which we weren't...we were just trying to get the point across that people need to pay attention to who is the source of the information they are receiving and then look at the information with a critical eye, keeping in mind the slant of the information so to understand the truth of what really happened...equally useful when watching or reading the news
Yippee, love these videos. Real history is great and all but Machiavelli was a long time ago. And who can get tired of hearing about the Defiance of Duskendale??
I find Tywin fascinating because he is so much better at the game than everyone else that even when it is revealed that Tywin engineered something it still takes you a week to figure out how he did it
I also noticed Lady Greendhand's voice was sounding less healthy, but still doing a great narration and insightful enlightenment. Hope you get better soon. Your voice, even when a bit stuffy, still sounds lovely and pleasant to listen. ♪( ´θ｀)ノ
Rhaegar could have been the sponsor of the tourney at Harrenhal. In monarchies, members of the royal household often get stipends to use as they see fit as it is considered their personally owned funds. Being the Crown Prince, I have to imagine Rhaegar to be very wealthy by this point.
It seems to me that Aerys, when imprisoned, was forced by Lady Serala to have sex with her. She might have been of Valyrian blood, trying to give birth to a dragonhatcher, or dragonrider. She was called Serpent, GRRM likes to do this play on words. Her husband was probably not responsible for the defiance, at least in the eyes of the king, because he and the rest was only beheaded, while Serala was tortured. How was she tortured? Well, her tongue and female parts were torn apart, suggesting her crime was associated with this parts of her body.
6:35 Grrm has written every word of Asoiaf through one person's perspective, thusly I think we should question everything we read! Just like Sansa recalling the Hound's kiss that never happened everything is possibly being told by an unreliable narrator either explicitly to manipulate opinions or unintentionally due to personal self-serving bias.
ooh! Aerys actually ruled from Casterly Rock for a year too when Tywin had to return home I forget why. It was after that when they're friendship supposedly went sour so wander why...
With there is no mention of Tywin and Rheagar together not even in any small council meetings, which surely he would have attended even if just until the Mad King turned on him, is because of Robert. If Robert had such a hatred of Rheagar and what he did imagine his wrath with the inadvertent matchmaker. This is a revised history Pycelle gives us.
I really don't have sympathy for the Mad King. He kept taunting and humiliating his former best friend for years. Tywin, the made who was responsible for ending 2 rebellious houses. Twyin the genius. Tywin the ruthless. So he brought ot upon himself
What a fascinating character Tyrin is. Both the best and worst of them..... GRRMS a master of gray..... Would love to hear your take on the Spider!!!! Keep up the great work.... seven Blessings 👍💖
Oh wow can't Wait. These two are awesome characters. I'm fascinated by the dynamic between then and the fact that Little finger can confuse the spider himself!!!!!
I too want to hear your take on Varys. I am currently re-reading the series specifically to pay attention to Varys and his interactions. I may have noticed something the first time, and am re-reading to verify. I am currently ~800 pages into Storm of Swords, so I will probably finish the books late April to early May and share then... if evidence bears out my thoughts :D
Dave C , we'll be looking forward to your findings on varys. I'm also about to re read the whole saga. Have you noticed that someone, possibly baelish, may be able to get information only witnessed by cats within the red keep? I know it sounds strange. ... Arya chased a cat into the dungeons and overheard the two men talking about the wolf and the lion etc. Baelish later says to varys that he saw him meeting with a foreign dignitary. Baelish also said he saw varys meeting with Ned. Varys said, "oh, was that you under the bed". discussion welcomed. Best regards
Great video as always; you guys set a definite standard with the amount of research and production that obviously goes into all your videos. However I couldn't help but laugh at the SSM quote: "There were definitely tensions between father and son. More will be revealed in future books", dated August of 2000. I hope so George, I hope so.
Their are actually of similarities between Don Corleone(Vito) and Lord Tywin Lannister. Both are the heads of powerful families with good minds for all matters of business, politics and war. Both rose to prominence through acts of violent retaliation against people who had harmed or attempted to harm their families. Both are known for a regal bearing that can be both awe inspiring and chilling. Both have pet human monsters they use as weapons of fear (Gregor Clegane is Tywin's Luca Brasi). They both have warrior sons whose rambunctious sword nature is both their greatest strength and weakness (Sonny and Jaime). I'm sure there are more but that all I got right now.
Thank you...hope you enjoyed...we'll get back to Catelyn soon enough...we like to use that series as a break from covering extremely complex dark topics...pointing out how badly she sucks for a few days is a welcomed reprieve from researching death gods and the like
Fantastic!!! What is so cool and amazes me everytime is that i have never heard what you say before. Most asoiaf youtubers just try to comptete in making r+l=j videos that are well edited and sound as good and neat as possible. You guys are the best upload next video please!!!
Thank you...it probably helps that we stopped paying attention to what other people said about the story like a year and a half ago, when we first started trying to figure everything out...there is so much misinformation out there that we decided that if we wanted to figure it out, we needed to get all our information ourselves directly from the source...a lot of people hear things or read things somewhere and believe it without fact-checking first...that is one of the reasons I think there are so many implausible theories floating around about ASOIAF...people hear something that is wrong, believe it, make a theory about it, other people hear that theory and expand on it and it mushrooms out into a mass of misinformation
oh man, i am so pissed!!! i just saw that thread in alt shift x's video and dave had to stop me from responding....i called them everything from cretins, to insecure **** whose mothers would be disgusted that she raised them. he made me delete it. i just wanted you to know ive been restrained, but hes writing something now. hahaa
Haha. Man it is such a disgusting style to just outright copy a video. Atleast he who has a large channel should point to the original youtuber and help them out especially when the original channel is new and in comparison a small channel. Now alt looks original and brilliant and "his theory" will spread because he is "the first" after you guys to make a video of it and he is one of the most famous and largest asoiaf channels. It is hard to grow as a small channel when other channels copy your theory and spreads it more quickly and gets the credit.
Midget Nipple , Post a link right back to the original youtube person that created it so the smaller creator gets their audience. I have encountered several large channels that pull info from Greenhand, Fire and blood, and game of theories, and secrets of the citadel. The channels listed are the good guys. The content pirates typically release 2-4 days after the little guys. Some do co-ops and that's cool. Agreed credit the sources!
another reason for why Rhaegar might have conspired with Tywin was that his father in those later years was abusing his mother, and i would say that it is a reasonable asssumption to make that Rhaegar would have done it for her as well.
more on Essos will be coming fairly soon...bits a pieces anyways, as we're going to break down the Death Idols in the House of Black and White, which is going to require some analysis of the place and people the Idols came from
The Order of the Green Hand awesome, noone seems to talk about leng or yi ti either so if it ever comes up naturally it'd be great to see something regarding those places!
Bit of feedback, as someone who works with audio (I have a show over on Blazing Caribou). Your intro and outro music raises to be too loud. For example, if I chromecast your videos to my television, I watch the talking bits with the volume set at 16. I watch the end credits at a 4. You really need to make the end especially quieter. I never watch your videos with headphones for this reason. I will say I quite like this channel, even if I disagree with most of the theories. They're well thought out and sourced, even if some of them go against my own theories. Keep up the great work!
I would say between 4-6 would be an improvement. Play around with it, listen to it. If you compare it to intros of other people's works I think it'll help. Thanks for the reply :)
well we definitely don't want to be blowing people's eardrums out...thanks for the help...we honestly had no idea what we were doing when we started 6 months ago and are definitely on the learn as we go track
Yeah, it just takes experience to learn these things. I don't make videos, I do podcasts, but your videos could easily be translated to that medium. Anyways, your videos are great, and keep up the good work.
How did such a smartie have no idea about the twincest? It took Ned and Jon Arryn at least one year to figure it out and Tywin's way more savvy than them.
If it hadn't been for Aerys and the timely death of King Jahaerys then Tywin would be rotting away at the Night's Watch for the atrocities committed upon the Reynes and Tarbecks. Since Pycelle is such a Lannister man I find it suspicious that he mentioned censure against Tywin at all, it leads me to believe that there were those that called for severe punishment. I'd think there would have been reprisals against the Lannisters had King Aerys not lent his full support for Tywin and made him Hand.
I could be wrong, but I do not believe there are any specific rules for putting down rebellions...I cannot recall ever hearing a law cited governing it, but I'm reasonably sure that when he did that, some people likely thought it was a bit over the top, but there was nothing anyone but his father (who technically ruled those lands) could do about it...he didn't leave anyone around to make a complaint against him to the King, and the King wouldn't want to start trouble with one of his most powerful vassels when no one is knocking on his door for justice...the King would most likely just let sleeping dogs lie and move on
What Tywin did was beyond simply putting down a rebellion. He didn't just capture a few castles and imprison rebellious lords. He murdered everyone, including the women and children. Pycelle, a Lannister man, states that Tywin's actions drew censure and I suspect that's putting it mildly. Tywin at the time wasn't nearly as powerful or cool headed as he is in ACOK, he was a young teen not yet Lord of Casterly Rock and he was acting rashly and impulsively. He wanted to get back at those that had laughed at and disrespected his family. Wiping out two entire families was cruel and unusual, particularly when no Lannisters were killed. Hell the Tarbecks never even called their own banners, they didn't even realize they were at war until Tywin was at the gates. If Tywin hadn't been best friends with Aerys or if Jaehaerys lived then there would certainly be those that would petition them for justice. Failing that numerous rebellions may have propped up across the Westerlands. Tywin's father Tytos was, allegedly, thought of as weak by his bannermen and now his son is going crazy and wiping out entire families over what was at first a dispute over a loan. The Lannisters at this time were far from the most powerful vassals of the Iron Throne. Their authority in the Westerlands had eroded and while their vassals had grown strong the Lannisters had weakened, providing a volatile situation that erupted in a civil war. Many beyond the Reynes and Tarbecks weren't fond of Tytos and the brutal actions of a young man barely out of boyhood were more likely to enrage them than cow. Tywin should have, at the very least, been exiled or sent to the Night's Watch for what he did. Instead Jaehaerys died young and the new King Aerys gave Tywin his full support, even making him Hand of the King. Tywin Lannister got off scot free. I suppose that decision was also a good representation of Aerys' future reign. It showed how impulsive he is, how he shows great favoritism among certain members of his court, and it shows how little justice means to him.
Order of the Greenhand, do you think if Eddard Stark didn’t have such a dumb wife and he got to meet Tywin in the battlefield like he wanted. How do you think that war would have gone? Tywin vs Eddard with no dumb Caitlyn screwing it up would be a hypothetical war I’d like to see.
Best boss ever! But, did the Baratheon ship REALLY sink, or was it sank? Like Tywin would never ever, ever, do something like that hahaha. You made me think that, thanks guys!
a few of us were talking about that earlier...the situation did work out very much in Tywin's favor...that is a mystery we might never get the answer to
That would be especially cold even for Tywin given that he and Stefon had been really good friends at one point but I can see him doing it if he felt it necessary regardless. Heck given the circumstances Tywin would probably blame it on Aerys himself for putting Tywin in a position where his old friend's continued existence endangered his own.
Where did the pictures of some of the characters come from? The ones that look like they could be from the show. Steffon Baratheon for example. Were they in flashbacks and I just don't remember?
great video as always guys(: but the thing is that as we see Rhaegar from the quotes and how people like Barrestion selmy and jeorah mormont I see him... honorable? but there's the blood raven thing about the good of the realm, it's interesting to think about. yeah and I have a question about something else than the video. what do you think Cersei did to get Jaime that white cloak and did Tywin find out and that helped to make things go really bad between the king and Tywin?
why would making the truly terrible but correct choice of removing Aerys from the throne be dishonorable? I would not discount the possibility that Cersei did more than talk to the King about it, given her propensity to use what she has to get her "brilliant" plots done, but there is not enough information to know either way
The Order of the Green Hand because a son owns loyalty and obedience to his father not killing them. it might be the right thing to do but it's not honorable.
so him being Rhaegar's father means that Rhaegar as the future of the realm has to sit there and watch his father burn people to death for no reason, torture people, dole out favors and positions to morons that laugh the loudest, disrespect him, his wife, his children, not bathe, not cut his nails or hair, and make a mock of his house and the realm and never even think about doing something about it and saving the realm from his monster of a father?
well, no. it's the right and moral thing to do here. but as Jaime lannister put it "It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other" so Rhaegar honor compiled him to obey his father, protect and do the bid of his father and king. am not saying he's a piece of shit because he done what's right but he also betrayed his father not matter what his father was. if doing the right thing is the honorable thing why did blood raven go to the wall or Ned chose to crown Stannis and not himself or Renly and Ned would've been a great king. all am saying that Rhaegar betrayed his father for the right reasons but that did stain his honor.
When you view the situation through the prism of Rhaegar knowing his father is ruining the realm he is to inherit and the fact he abuses his mother constantly and the fact Rhaegar felt inclined to do Tywin the favor of knighting the mountain (proving there was a relationship there) and the fact that there is no record of him speaking against Tywin when Tywin expressed a lack of caring for whether Aerys made it out alive it seems to me that he had to have been a part of it
Yeah he definitely didn't want Aerys on the Throne, but having him die seems a little strong. You never know with Rhaegar though. He was definitely conspiring though.
I personally think the two people who had the most influence on him in KL were probably Tywin and Pycelle (his teacher and an extension of Tywin), and between the two of them, convincing Rhaegar that it was for the good of the realm wouldn't be difficult, especially when you consider the points I made in the first response
I giggle and squeal whenever they upload a new video. It does feel like an addiction when they show up on your feed and you just want to sit down and get lost for 20 mins and not care about the world. But I think the addiction is worth it. Cant get enough Green Hand.
I know many people hate tywin because of the red wedding, but the war was practically won by then anyway. It would have only been a matter of time before the combined forces of Lannister and Tyrell would decimate the starks, resulting in unforetold casualties on both sides. Instead, tywin made one quick, decisive stroke to end the war once and for all. The red wedding is the equivalent of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, though brutal, it was the most effective way of ending the war.
we already have so many more than we ever imagined we would get, so I can't complain...our complete lack of anything resembling social media ability probably isn't helping
Tywin is one of my favorite characters. Ruthless yet competent.
very true
He's pragmatic, ruthless, yet allies can trust that he won't forget his supporters (not an opportunist or impulsive psychopath). This makes him predictable, but to his enemies he remains a ghost (use of proxis, subtle moves...). That makes him special.
Army of Ninjas Exactly. A lot of people just simply label him as 'evil' without considering that fact that it was *necessary for Tywin to be 'evil' in those situations to gain power and success.* For example, *the murder of Elia and her children* was beyond horrific yet *necessary for the rebellion.* Unlike Joffrey, he's *not unnecessarily bloodthirsty and sadistic.* He puts a *stop to the torture of the prisoners at Harrenhal* because it was *deemed unnecessary* and it would be far wiser to *put those prisoners to work.* He's *intelligent enough to weigh the political reality* with his own personal petty vengeance which is what *distinguishes him with Cersei.* He has that *perfect balance of political astuteness and ruthlessness.* He has political astuteness that *prevents his judgements from being blinded by his desire for personal revenges* (unlike Cersei who alienated herself from her most powerful ally for her own petty vengeance) yet is *ruthless enough to not let morals and ethics get in his way* (unlike Ned Stark whose honor prevented him from taking power and rather got him killed) which is why *he's so competent.*
If only he could realize Tyrion's potential, House Lannister would be the most powerful house
@@edi9892 Yeah, he is a brilliant strategist and military genius too.
I think that Rhaegar and Tywin would have been a good team as king and hand
We think they thought that too
Imagine how Tywin felt after sending Joffery to bed without his dinner.
All his latter life there was only ever a king who was above him, and
he was then above even the king.
I guess Tywin knew he had control over Joffrey and Westeros
Well this King is his Grandson and the kings baratheon side is all but wiped out. Tywin is still the Lord of the Rock. The power of the Crown isn't as great in times of Rebellion.
If Rhaegar and Tywin plotted to kill Aerys during Defiance of Duskendale and were so close why Tywin didnt help him in Battle of the Trident - there is just no sense in this theory. No offense but Aerys II was mad and dumb.
Not a lot of people liked Tywin. But I actually liked him a LOT. He was one of my favorite characters... He was a good leader, decisive, and even though he could be harsh, he kept things peaceful.
exactly!
MikePlaysIt I agree I liked him a lot too. I'm love the starks and sucks they got massacred but that dosnt matter to me I love him
MikePlaysIt good leader bad father
oh yea, he's top 5 non POV for sure..
He's probably second, behind the one true King of Westeros. Stannis Baratheon.
Ben Gallagher correct :)
Also Tywin didn't join Roberts Rebellion until after Rheagar was killed. Once he received that news, he immediately went to KL. Goes with the theory of them working together.
@LagiNaLangAko23 Tyrells are another opportunistic bunch, just like Tywin. They thought Robert wouldn't win, but they don't want to take the chances of capturing Robert for Aerys, given how Aerys is. They decided to besiege Storm's End for months when they could've taken it with force in an instant. They didn't take account Rhaegar's death or Tywin's involvement, but they did take account that both sides might win. For if the war went too long, it means Robert is losing, and when Storm's End fall, the Tyrells play a huge deal in Robert's downfall. But if the war ends quickly, which can only happen if Robert wins, Storm's End would still be besieged and the Tyrells can easily swear fealty to Robert without his animosity that might otherwise come should Storm's End fall and Stannis and his family butchered.
Poisoning the well is basically the whole business of the news media.
As a man once said just because you're paranoid dosen't mean that there aren't people out to get you.
too true
Tywin was being pushed to this if he did take part in getting rid of The king...The king basically nudged everyone against him despite any justice he served correctly it became about how he did his deeds and he did nothing but harm to his own hand who never sought glory of the throne...he offered the man a queen for his son. I back The king on his actions against the Starks but he basically wrongs the people closest to him with no damn reason
One of the things I like about Tywin is that he is the richest man in the realm yet he is not a pompous man.
that's a really good point...his presence was his power...he didn't flaunt his gold...he dressed impeccably and had the nicest armor in the Seven Kingdoms, but they were more of a symbol of his power...it's the medieval equivalent of the power suit
Great series, but I wish you would add the video number in the thumbnail or at the beginning of the title. Otherwise it’s hard to distinguish which video to watch next because the title always gets cut off.
Never thought of Tywin’s involvement in the Tourney of Harrenhall! I love the idea of Tywin and Rhaegar working together. And Tywin as Rhaegar’s male role-model and father-figure - wow! We saw Tywin with children - okay, in the TV show they added the scene with Arya, but the way he treats Tommen, softening his approach because he knows he’d just frighten Tommen to the point he’d avoid his grandfather and he’d have no influence...I can see how he’d take Rhaegar under his wing, guiding him.
Just realized how much I like the alternating narration. Your voices and tone complement eachother well. Keeps me on track!
Thank you so much
some battles are won with a sword and some are won with a pen. Could you imagine a Hand library id love to see what Tywin wrote over his 20 years as hand
great video loved this series
I would love to see Tywin's journal if he had one
XXcaesar5000 Wow, the pen is truly mightier than the sword.
after twyin. I want to see some more stannis the mannis
i love stannis. so much, haha lady gh, i was actually thinking we should do more character series
I just thought of something as I re-read ACOK. Balon Greyjoy was detailing his plans for attacking the North while Robb was South at war. He goes on to say "Once we hold Moat Cailin, the pup will not be able to win back the North...and if he fool enough to try, his enemies will seal the south end of the causeway behind him, and Robb the boy will find himself caught like a rat in a bottle". Do you think Tywin reached out to Balon and had some sort of deal with him, in exchange for betraying Robb? He did it w/the Bolton's, Frey's, and attempted to get the Manderlys to withdraw their support of Robb. So I can't dismiss that he'd play on the Ironmen's hatred for House Stark and manipulate the situation.
Ashley of Naath But do you think that Balon would make a deal with the Lannisters? I don't know it seems to be a little odd to me
I would have to go back and really disect everything Balon says and Tywin says to be sure, because Tywin was a sly dog and it takes re-reading the books a half a dozen times to even start catching all the things he set up, but I will say that it sounds very Tywinesque
Blabla Tarantino...that is an excellent point...he pays the iron price...he won't stop talking about it...then again, he might be all talk and have already talked to Tywin...
It's hard to say, Baon said "Tywin is to cunning by half" when Theon suggested attacking Lannisport. Tywin could have easily reached out to him. Balon must have kept a close eye on Tywin, a man who is good at looking innocent to everyone else, this would be especially hard for Balon since he doesn't keep a maester and therefore has little to no correspondence with other notable people in Westeros who might make him privy to Tywins possible actions. If Balon wasn't doing an amazing enough job of watching him from afar to not want fight him, than he knew how Tywin worked from personal experience from dealing with him directly. Mind you, if Tywin reached out to Balon, he very well may not have tried to intimidate Balon into working with him because the Greyjoy's have too much ride to allow themselves to submit to anothers superiority, Tywin most likely played on Balon's weaknesses by letting him know the opportunity to avenge his sons and possibly get Theon back was coming. After all we see Tywin use the perfect tact and flattery when convincing Tyrion's mountain clans to fight the Northmen and he only had a few moments time of knowing them to decide how to go about convincing them and he did a flawless job, Balon would have been a pushover as well because he has pride and a need for revenge that makes him easy to exploit. I doubt Tywin mentioned anything about a crown if he promised the north to the Greyjoys, but it wouldn't matter either way because if the Greyjoys decided to crown themselves and win the North, they would be weakened from both losing men taking the North and they would have to spread themselves so thin to hold the North that it could easily be retaken by a southron army if need be afterwards and then they would be so few in number that the Iron Islands would be even easier to take from the Greyjoys, and Joffrey would probably would have had them all put to death for taking up a crown. So the Lannisters then would have been able to take the Iron Islands and the North. All that being said, it could very easily been the case that Tywin had not reached out to Balon but Balon had no wish to attack Lannisport anyway because he was wise enough to know that he didn't have enough power to mess with the Lannisters or even the full strength of the North for that matter and he was banking on Robb Stark being too busy with Tywin Lannister to march back North. Tywin revealed to Tyrion that he was hoping to keep Ned alive to avoid war with the North so he could deal with Renly and Stannis. I doubt Tywin made an offer to Balon if he had no intention of fighting Robb but Balon started to marshal his own strength immediately in preparation to invade the North as soon as heard that Robb had marched his strength south.
Sorry that was so long.
"Poisoning the well" is what people do when they denounce others as "conspiracy theorists" if the latter has a contrary and/or controversial view. It happens.
Tywin was ruthless and competent. That doesn't make him a saint, but it puts him leagues ahead of aerys(brutal and incompetent), Robert (just incompetent), Joffrey (cruel and incompetent) or Tonmen (kind and gentle, but again, incompetent). There's only one person in Westeros fit to fill Tywin's shoes, and that's Tyrion.
I am absolutely loving this series. You guys are so concise and to-the-point. Please keep up the good work.
+chemistrycounts thank you again! 😊
Green hand, I saw your name dropped by 5 other youtube viewers on a major 195k site to help people whom had asked questions. You and Gemma at secrets of the Citadel have the best content on youtube! Closing in on 10k!
thank you so much ! thats awesome to hear.
My husband is not a book reader and only watches the show because I do. He always says your videos are better then the show. We just finished this video and he said he now understands why I say Tywin is one of my Favorite and that when I say Show Tywin sucks he now understands. My husband says it sounds like the show creators didnt like Tywin and wrote their dislike into the show. Great Job with all your facts. Keep up with these awesome videos and YOU may just get my husband to read the books.
Tell him he's missing out...or get him the audiobooks...they take the intimidation factor out of tackling a 1000 page book
He has READ the dark tower books. Those make Ice and Fire seem like nothing. It not the length of the books it the fact that he is not much of a fiction reader. He prefers Metaphysics and such. But the Dark tower and King is one book set NO ONE should miss. My husband also says. He dosnt need to read GRRM because I tell him everything episode by episode. He has also watched a ton of youtube videos with me. Well more like he is playing games on the xbox while I watched videos on the computer. SO he says he knows it all. But your videos make him want to know more. In the end he prob wont read them because he is also not much of a mid-evil fan. Tyrion and Eddard is what hooked him on the show. Thats prob all i will get out of him. Now the Dark tower books. Those are some I would like to see you guys do also. My husband agrees with that also. I am also sure tons of your fans on your page would love to see you guys do other books. Think about it. Expand what you do. Grab more of that Sci-Fi fan base out there.
thebovineavenger you should absolutely read the books there much better. the show is great but the books are just so much better in my opinion
I have read the books. I read them when they first came out 20 years ago when I was in High school. Its my HUSBAND who has NOT read them.
And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all.
It is known.
Thanks for uploading your efforts and adding the depth of character Tywin deserves.
thank you for watching...Tywin is full of little pearls of wisdom
Me at 10 years old: when i grow up i wanna be a rockstar !
Me in my 20's: when i grow up i wanna be like Tywin Lannister
Congratulations on your growth! I've even heard your channel referenced in other you tube GOT channels. Many of the references were in the comment sections recommending your page. WTG😀
Thank you so much...that's always nice to hear
Wolf pack on the prowl lol
Rob stark the bane of tywin lannister. I loved this dynamic. The young wolf. One the best subs stories and philosophy of the story.
Fascinating perspective! I must admit that I took it as fact that the mad king was indeed mad. I hadn't noted that, "gray suckered coont" (northern accent) pycel, had written the history of the rein. Great content and presentation. Best regards!
Thank you so much...same to you
Ok hand, Do you think if I email George it'll work? Must...have....book.....winds...of.......lol, no need to reply, regards
Tywin is my favourite character after Ygritte! Thank you for this video, finally some recognition to his brilliance! Great job
Tywin is a sly dog...it took us reading the book a 3rd and 4th time to even start catching the thinks he was setting in motion
Tywin' legacy, about what he was speaking in this scen and to Arya in Harrenhall, is:
- the war, which tore apart the Seven Kingdoms into thousand pieces, worms, murderers and traitors (Freys, Boltons) ruling and harassing
- the anarchy, where almost all of the long-ruling major Houses are extinct
- the huge, unpayable debt to the Iron Bank of Braavos
- Anarchy. No central power, real king, who would unite and prepare the Seven Kingdoms for the War for the Dawn and defend the Realm
- The example what he has given to everyone: with betrayal, murder, breaking guest right everyone is able to grab power: open the field for worms
- Starvation for Westeros in Winter. Death for the people of Westeros during Winter with ignoring any threat for the Realm in the North, not preparing the REalm for the fight, which will cost millions of lives.
I would like to mention, that it was a cut scene, where Varys reported Tywin in the Small Council about Mance and the wildling army attacking the Wall and the Nightswatch is asking for more men to defend the Realm. And Tywin's choice for that: not sending help to defend the Realm, but leave the Nightswatch alone against 100 000 wildlings, so the wildlings can attack Robb Stark in the back in the North. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. But if you think about, this is exactly what Cersei is going to do with the Nightking's army of dead according to the leaks: just not care about that and not doing her duty as queen defending the Realm.
So: Tywin's legacy after the Great War:
- He, his children and his granchildren dead. House Lannister will extinct in the end (except of Tyion I hope), the Lannister name will be a curse for the afterage, everyone avoiding them like pest. And the Starks will rule, with Jon Snow as an eternal king, I think.
Orsolya Pámer that's all what happened, but the blame for it all can't be put on Tywin alone. He was a brilliant man who put in harsh measures toward his enemies yes, but that doesn't mean he had anything to do with the Greyjoy's, nor could he control the stupid actions of Cersei who should rightly be held responsible for the downfall of the Lannister house. As for the wildlings, again it could be said he left it alone intentionally. But think about it, his armies just won against Stannis, Joffrey had died and he had a thousand things to do in Kings Landing alone. Not only that the Wildlings were never a big issue for Lannisters. They were a far away threat they had never had to deal with. He would have dealt with them if he had too, but he had more pressing issues at home. Few would have acted under the circumstances he was in, against the wildlings. Tywin was a prick, but he wasn't as evil as all that.
And about Tywin being a so famous and intelligent strategist...
1. He had not participated in Robert's Rebellion, only after it was clear, that Robert and Ned will win. After Rhaegar died at the Battle of the Trident. Then instead of fighting he get into KL by Pycelle's treason, sacked the city and let the Mountain kill Elia and the two Targaryen children. And he get into Robert's favours with the bodies of the dead children. Whoa, what a great strategy...
2. He was not able to win a single battle against Robb on the field, although he outnumbered Robb 2, maybe 3 times, and had the homeland closer (supplies, etc.), than Robb. So he orchestrated the Red wedding instead to meet with him on the field. What a great strategist...
4. He had barely anything done against the other kings of the War of the 5 kings. Stannis murdered Renly, he did care about Balon Greyjoy, nor Mance and the wildling army threatening the Realm in the North. He had "saved" KL against Stannis with the Tyrells, after Tyrion has taken care most of Stannis's army with the wildfire trick. At that point Tywin with the Tyrells has outnumbered Stannis 2, maybe 3 times. Or more. He rode in, and claimed the victory for himself. What a great strategist.
Anyway: Tywin has never won anything in clear battle, with equal, or worst chances, than his enemies. He is not so great strategist, as he is told. He won his victories only by treason, and murders - or conventiently outnumbered the enemy 2-3 times, like in KL.
Orsolya Pámer you're missing the point, it's not about being a good strategist, it is about winning. And he was good at it.
Best ASOIAF videos on UA-cam!! fucking quality every time
Thank you so much!!!! :)
I've had y'all in my subscription list for a while. I'm ashamed to say that I've just now started watching your videos. They are AWESOME!! Got lots to catch up on. Y'all do an INCREDIBLE JOB!!!🐺🐲🔥❄🌹🌠🐙😀😀😀😀
Thank you Kerri...more coming soon
Good ol' Tywin, he was like Cersei- a character you love(d) to hate!
Thanks for the fanticipation antidote! enjoyed it...
Thanks for watching...glad you enjoyed
It always bothered me that Cersei dismissed the advice of GM Pycelle so easily. Grand Maester is not a title to be taken lightly, regardless of how irritating his act or personality may be, he's lived a life of service and great knowledge.
It's a shame that Cersei is such a royal cunt. I do rather like Qyburn tho nonetheless
Cersei falls under what Machiavelli would call the third type of intellect...useless
Still not sure about your theories on Tyrion but I can't deny that your videos are well produced and interesting they deserve a binge
Thank you...we don't ask everyone to agree...we disagree with 99% of other people who read the books so it would be a tad ridiculous for us to demand that others agree with us...just that people go about it like you do (like a normal person) instead of acting like we are spreading lies about their mothers
HAHAHHAA leave my R+L=J mother alone!
lmao
The Order of the Green Hand Do you think, that Tywin killed Steffon Baratheon? He benefits very much from Steffon´s death (he is now secure as hand, because Aerys wanted to replace Tywin with Steffon and arrrest Tywin) and Aerys thinks that Tywin killed Steffon.
I find it difficult to believe that Tywin could have pulled that off...Robert and Stannis saw the ship sink because of a storm...Tywin is a masterful puppet master, but I don't see anything in his background that would indicate he can control the weather...but he definitely benefited greatly from Steffon's death...that can't be denied...if it was a rumor that the boat sank in a storm, I might believe that Tywin played a role in it's sinking, but I deep Stannis about as reliable a source as we get in the story...if he says he saw it with his own eyes, he saw it with his own eyes
Yes, the ship sank during an storm. But maybe the ship was manipulated? Or maybe Patchface was a lannister asassin or a faceless man or sth. lke that? Maybe he murdered Steffon at some point during the journey home and the storm, as lucky coincidence, just covered the murder even better up.
Tywin must have thought, that if Steffon succeeds, he would loose everything. A master player of the game of thrones would have a plan at this point...
A small jar of Wildfire in the bottom of the ship would be enough to put a fatal hole in the ship but not so much that it would blow it to pieces, and who would question a ship sinking in Ship-Breaker Bay?
"if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill anyone"- Michael Corleone...I need to look at this some more
Stinkerlitzchen Highly unlikely
If I was rheagar I would model myself after ser's Arthur Dayne and Barristan {the bold} Selmy, my father's kingsguard
+Thijs van asselt they would be good choices for a normal guy but a guy who wants to be a good king might need a more political role model
Thijs van asselt if I was rheagar I wouldn't start a war for a woman and a prophecy
The Order of the Green Hand good point, so following tywin might indeed be good.
yay it's a great day when you put out another
Thanks!
great series! Tywin is a boss! I can't help but think if Ned would of taken a page out of Tywin's and Cregan Stark's book on how to be a Hand of the King - he would came out on top and kept his head:D
Awesome piece guys. I haven't read The World yet but I can see how and why Tywin supported a Baratheon to the throne. Congrats
thank you!!!
it has always been speculated that the price was the financier of the tourney. with him winning all the tilts supporting it. varys whispering about a secret council, bringing the king out. this tywin thing is good, it gives insight into his patience and scemes. you to are magnificent!!!a true treat! with the mad king showing up, did that spur the whole lyanna "abduction " into high gear? when does tywin bring the iron bank into the picture? i mean3x the purse. ...
Rhaegar appears to have been really good at jousting...there are only two references to him jousting in tourneys, the first was in Viserys' birth celebration tourney in Lannisport in 276, which he lost in the final tilt to Arthur Dayne at the age of 17, and this Tourney at Harrenhal, which he won...in both, he defeated Barristan Selmy (the best lance in the seven kingdoms), among other notable knights...Barristan Selmy thinks back on it and wishes he won that tilt, because it might have spared the realm a war if he (barristan) named Ashara queen of love and beauty instead of Rhaegar naming Lyanna...I don't think Lyanna was part of the plan...I feel like it was more of a fatal attraction/love at first sight thing...the Knight of the Laughing Tree story references his singing and playing of the harp made her cry...I feel like there was a moment or something that he looked up when he was playing and their eyes met and their plan went a little off the rails without Tywin there to stop him
My all-time favorite character in GoT. These are absurdly amazing. Can’t wait to finish them all!!!
We were both sick when we made these. These might be a little better when played at 1.25 speed
Another good video -- the difficulty I have is that Tywin could not have had a good reaction to Rhaegar marrying Elia instead of Cersei. Maybe Tywin supported Rhaegar until that point but not after. So, the idea that Tywin engineered the Defiance of Duskendale to get Rhaegar on the throne is a lot more plausible than the Harrenhal.
I see Tywin as more logical than that. He obviously would have known that Rhaegar couldn't undo his fathers arrangement of a betrothal to Elia and being a man that adapts to changing circumstances in a matter of seconds would likely have diverted his attention to a future betrothal of his grandchildren to Rhaegar's future son or something like that
I really enjoy your videos very much, extremely informative, you guys do a lot of the ground work to pump out ideas and concepts regarding the lore, that I don't see on any other channels. Thank you to you both for doing this, I know it's a lot of work.
Thank you for watching !!
How have I found you guys this late? Your videos rock and you've gained a new subscriber :) Now please excuse me while I go binge watching on your channelpage.
Thank you...I hope you enjoy
You guys continue to surprise me. The last think I expected to see here was (a small amount of) affirmation of Aerys,
I wouldn't call it affirmation...just that he wasn't insane to be paranoid that Tywin might kill him and Rhaegar wants him off the throne
The Order of the Green Hand : But you also open the door to have readers ask themselves what other "truths" we think we know about Aerys were possibly just manipulations devised by Tywin and Pycell. So I agree you are not saying that Aerys is 100% good and just misunderstood, but you are suggesting we look at him again with a critical eye. Which, to the point of my original response, was the last thing I ever expected to hear, So congrats for continuing to make people think a little deeper about ASOIAF.
Sorry...I thought you were saying that you thought we were taking something resembling a pro-Aerys stance, which we weren't...we were just trying to get the point across that people need to pay attention to who is the source of the information they are receiving and then look at the information with a critical eye, keeping in mind the slant of the information so to understand the truth of what really happened...equally useful when watching or reading the news
Yippee, love these videos. Real history is great and all but Machiavelli was a long time ago. And who can get tired of hearing about the Defiance of Duskendale??
I find Tywin fascinating because he is so much better at the game than everyone else that even when it is revealed that Tywin engineered something it still takes you a week to figure out how he did it
Machiavelli is from the real world.
Look at what I wrote, "real history is great and all but Machiavelli was a long time ago". I know he was real...
you guys never disappoint
thank you
Aw, get well soon Lady Greenhand!
thank you so much...I'll tell her you said so....we're loading her up on vitamin C as we speak
thank you!! im starting to feel a tiny bit better, but i sound so stuffy haha :) xx
The Order of the Green Hand oh I'm glad!! You'll be in top shape in no time! 😀
I also noticed Lady Greendhand's voice was sounding less healthy, but still doing a great narration and insightful enlightenment. Hope you get better soon. Your voice, even when a bit stuffy, still sounds lovely and pleasant to listen. ♪( ´θ｀)ノ
thank you joana! you're so sweet. xo :)
This was worth the wait! Very well done. Can not wait for the next one.
Thank you...coming soon
Can't wait!!
Rhaegar could have been the sponsor of the tourney at Harrenhal. In monarchies, members of the royal household often get stipends to use as they see fit as it is considered their personally owned funds. Being the Crown Prince, I have to imagine Rhaegar to be very wealthy by this point.
❤ Tywin and ❤ this channel! Videos & information presented just keeps getting better, great job! Looking forward to the next Catelyn sucks 😄
thank you !! you've been with us since like the beginning!! thank you!
It seems to me that Aerys, when imprisoned, was forced by Lady Serala to have sex with her. She might have been of Valyrian blood, trying to give birth to a dragonhatcher, or dragonrider. She was called Serpent, GRRM likes to do this play on words. Her husband was probably not responsible for the defiance, at least in the eyes of the king, because he and the rest was only beheaded, while Serala was tortured. How was she tortured? Well, her tongue and female parts were torn apart, suggesting her crime was associated with this parts of her body.
That notification was great. Just in time for breakfast/brunch too.
hope you enjoyed
That I did.
Great work, Machiavelli test page seems to be stressed out ;)
I'm impatient for more about LF
thank you...there will be more on that little devil soon enough
My favorite villain in A Song Of Ice And Fire/Game of Thrones, and in the top 10 of my favorite villains period
Villain?
6:35 Grrm has written every word of Asoiaf through one person's perspective, thusly I think we should question everything we read! Just like Sansa recalling the Hound's kiss that never happened everything is possibly being told by an unreliable narrator either explicitly to manipulate opinions or unintentionally due to personal self-serving bias.
I'm glad I turned on the notification bell.
good thing!
Comes in handy.
When are you going to do that drugs of Westeros video with shade of the evening and weirwood paste?
ooh! Aerys actually ruled from Casterly Rock for a year too when Tywin had to return home I forget why. It was after that when they're friendship supposedly went sour so wander why...
With there is no mention of Tywin and Rheagar together not even in any small council meetings, which surely he would have attended even if just until the Mad King turned on him, is because of Robert. If Robert had such a hatred of Rheagar and what he did imagine his wrath with the inadvertent matchmaker. This is a revised history Pycelle gives us.
I really don't have sympathy for the Mad King. He kept taunting and humiliating his former best friend for years. Tywin, the made who was responsible for ending 2 rebellious houses. Twyin the genius. Tywin the ruthless. So he brought ot upon himself
Love all of y'lls stuff because it's through cynical believable yet disagreeable.
thank you jason
tywin is the man! !
agreed
You guys def have radio voices, it makes it seem really professional
thanks !!
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand yall should do audiobooks
another great vid from The Order of the Green Hand!!!! thank you!!!
Thank you so much for watching
People, do the Summerhall please - I would love to hear your version of that!
we have a full plate right now, but that is a topic we are going to delve into in the next few months
What a fascinating character Tyrin is. Both the best and worst of them..... GRRMS a master of gray..... Would love to hear your take on the Spider!!!! Keep up the great work.... seven Blessings 👍💖
fascinating is definitely the word for Tywin...we are definitely going to do Varys sometime soon...Littlefinger too
Oh wow can't Wait. These two are awesome characters. I'm fascinated by the dynamic between then and the fact that Little finger can confuse the spider himself!!!!!
they are definitely the two best players of the game besides Tywin
I too want to hear your take on Varys. I am currently re-reading the series specifically to pay attention to Varys and his interactions. I may have noticed something the first time, and am re-reading to verify. I am currently ~800 pages into Storm of Swords, so I will probably finish the books late April to early May and share then... if evidence bears out my thoughts :D
Dave C , we'll be looking forward to your findings on varys. I'm also about to re read the whole saga. Have you noticed that someone, possibly baelish, may be able to get information only witnessed by cats within the red keep? I know it sounds strange. ... Arya chased a cat into the dungeons and overheard the two men talking about the wolf and the lion etc. Baelish later says to varys that he saw him meeting with a foreign dignitary. Baelish also said he saw varys meeting with Ned. Varys said, "oh, was that you under the bed". discussion welcomed. Best regards
Great video as always; you guys set a definite standard with the amount of research and production that obviously goes into all your videos. However I couldn't help but laugh at the SSM quote: "There were definitely tensions between father and son. More will be revealed in future books", dated August of 2000. I hope so George, I hope so.
Omg! Hahaha I didn't even notice that! That is really wild. That was 17 years ago! Wow
Loving that Godfather Tywin bit XD
He is the ultimate puppet master
Their are actually of similarities between Don Corleone(Vito) and Lord Tywin Lannister. Both are the heads of powerful families with good minds for all matters of business, politics and war. Both rose to prominence through acts of violent retaliation against people who had harmed or attempted to harm their families. Both are known for a regal bearing that can be both awe inspiring and chilling. Both have pet human monsters they use as weapons of fear (Gregor Clegane is Tywin's Luca Brasi). They both have warrior sons whose rambunctious sword nature is both their greatest strength and weakness (Sonny and Jaime). I'm sure there are more but that all I got right now.
Just what I needed for my meal. Loving your guys perspective on these characters. Can't wait for more characters series/more catelyn hate videos.
Thank you...hope you enjoyed...we'll get back to Catelyn soon enough...we like to use that series as a break from covering extremely complex dark topics...pointing out how badly she sucks for a few days is a welcomed reprieve from researching death gods and the like
another well done video keep up the good work!!!
Thank you...we will
Fantastic!!! What is so cool and amazes me everytime is that i have never heard what you say before. Most asoiaf youtubers just try to comptete in making r+l=j videos that are well edited and sound as good and neat as possible.
You guys are the best upload next video please!!!
Thank you...it probably helps that we stopped paying attention to what other people said about the story like a year and a half ago, when we first started trying to figure everything out...there is so much misinformation out there that we decided that if we wanted to figure it out, we needed to get all our information ourselves directly from the source...a lot of people hear things or read things somewhere and believe it without fact-checking first...that is one of the reasons I think there are so many implausible theories floating around about ASOIAF...people hear something that is wrong, believe it, make a theory about it, other people hear that theory and expand on it and it mushrooms out into a mass of misinformation
oh man, i am so pissed!!! i just saw that thread in alt shift x's video and dave had to stop me from responding....i called them everything from cretins, to insecure **** whose mothers would be disgusted that she raised them. he made me delete it. i just wanted you to know ive been restrained, but hes writing something now. hahaa
and thank you for sticking up for us. :)
Haha. Man it is such a disgusting style to just outright copy a video. Atleast he who has a large channel should point to the original youtuber and help them out especially when the original channel is new and in comparison a small channel. Now alt looks original and brilliant and "his theory" will spread because he is "the first" after you guys to make a video of it and he is one of the most famous and largest asoiaf channels. It is hard to grow as a small channel when other channels copy your theory and spreads it more quickly and gets the credit.
Midget Nipple , Post a link right back to the original youtube person that created it so the smaller creator gets their audience. I have encountered several large channels that pull info from Greenhand, Fire and blood, and game of theories, and secrets of the citadel. The channels listed are the good guys. The content pirates typically release 2-4 days after the little guys. Some do co-ops and that's cool. Agreed credit the sources!
nice intro great video keep up the great work guys 👍👍👍
thank you! we will!
Another stupendous, well reasoned video. I am loathe to point this out as it is not a slight , but the title has mysteries spelled incorrectly .
Thank you so much for telling me...somehow I didn't notice I left the e out...really appreciate it
11:58 -- Here's a mind-melter for you: Each of those bars is worth nearly 3/4 of a million dollars.
If, that is, they're 400 oz bars, as is the norm.
Lord Steffan man of steel
hahaha...where to you think the iron that Stannis is made of came from?
What's the introduction music you are using?
And can I have a version, that includes you saying "so, let's do this!"? 😉
Love Tywin
He is a strangely likeable character
boy if all your theories turn out to be true, it would be really awesome, and u guys would be even more awesome.
Thank you so much...we have high hopes
Yay! Best videos on UA-cam!
Thank you...that is so nice of you to say
well done guys. thanks. please keep it up
Thank you for watching...we will
New video? Time to drop everything I suppose...
I would tend to agree with that
another reason for why Rhaegar might have conspired with Tywin was that his father in those later years was abusing his mother, and i would say that it is a reasonable asssumption to make that Rhaegar would have done it for her as well.
Guys, would you consider doing a series about the histories and plotting over in essos and the further east? im sure you'd smash it out the park!
more on Essos will be coming fairly soon...bits a pieces anyways, as we're going to break down the Death Idols in the House of Black and White, which is going to require some analysis of the place and people the Idols came from
The Order of the Green Hand awesome, noone seems to talk about leng or yi ti either so if it ever comes up naturally it'd be great to see something regarding those places!
something tells me you are going to like our next faceless video
no spoilers! will look forward to it :)
Bit of feedback, as someone who works with audio (I have a show over on Blazing Caribou). Your intro and outro music raises to be too loud. For example, if I chromecast your videos to my television, I watch the talking bits with the volume set at 16. I watch the end credits at a 4. You really need to make the end especially quieter. I never watch your videos with headphones for this reason.
I will say I quite like this channel, even if I disagree with most of the theories. They're well thought out and sourced, even if some of them go against my own theories. Keep up the great work!
I have it set at-10 decibels. How much should I lower it?
I would say between 4-6 would be an improvement. Play around with it, listen to it. If you compare it to intros of other people's works I think it'll help.
Thanks for the reply :)
well we definitely don't want to be blowing people's eardrums out...thanks for the help...we honestly had no idea what we were doing when we started 6 months ago and are definitely on the learn as we go track
Yeah, it just takes experience to learn these things. I don't make videos, I do podcasts, but your videos could easily be translated to that medium. Anyways, your videos are great, and keep up the good work.
thank you so much...I'll take care of the song volume in our next video (or try to anyways)
I just got back from a band trip last night, thank you for making this a GoT welcome lol....
it was our pleasure
How ironic that Tywin thought his father would bring down House Lannister, then handed it to his daughter to destroy
While he didn't exactly hand it to her, it *is* ironic haha
How did such a smartie have no idea about the twincest? It took Ned and Jon Arryn at least one year to figure it out and Tywin's way more savvy than them.
Tywin didn't want to believe it, so he didn't see it.
If it hadn't been for Aerys and the timely death of King Jahaerys then Tywin would be rotting away at the Night's Watch for the atrocities committed upon the Reynes and Tarbecks. Since Pycelle is such a Lannister man I find it suspicious that he mentioned censure against Tywin at all, it leads me to believe that there were those that called for severe punishment. I'd think there would have been reprisals against the Lannisters had King Aerys not lent his full support for Tywin and made him Hand.
I could be wrong, but I do not believe there are any specific rules for putting down rebellions...I cannot recall ever hearing a law cited governing it, but I'm reasonably sure that when he did that, some people likely thought it was a bit over the top, but there was nothing anyone but his father (who technically ruled those lands) could do about it...he didn't leave anyone around to make a complaint against him to the King, and the King wouldn't want to start trouble with one of his most powerful vassels when no one is knocking on his door for justice...the King would most likely just let sleeping dogs lie and move on
What Tywin did was beyond simply putting down a rebellion. He didn't just capture a few castles and imprison rebellious lords. He murdered everyone, including the women and children. Pycelle, a Lannister man, states that Tywin's actions drew censure and I suspect that's putting it mildly. Tywin at the time wasn't nearly as powerful or cool headed as he is in ACOK, he was a young teen not yet Lord of Casterly Rock and he was acting rashly and impulsively. He wanted to get back at those that had laughed at and disrespected his family. Wiping out two entire families was cruel and unusual, particularly when no Lannisters were killed.
Hell the Tarbecks never even called their own banners, they didn't even realize they were at war until Tywin was at the gates. If Tywin hadn't been best friends with Aerys or if Jaehaerys lived then there would certainly be those that would petition them for justice. Failing that numerous rebellions may have propped up across the Westerlands. Tywin's father Tytos was, allegedly, thought of as weak by his bannermen and now his son is going crazy and wiping out entire families over what was at first a dispute over a loan.
The Lannisters at this time were far from the most powerful vassals of the Iron Throne. Their authority in the Westerlands had eroded and while their vassals had grown strong the Lannisters had weakened, providing a volatile situation that erupted in a civil war. Many beyond the Reynes and Tarbecks weren't fond of Tytos and the brutal actions of a young man barely out of boyhood were more likely to enrage them than cow.
Tywin should have, at the very least, been exiled or sent to the Night's Watch for what he did. Instead Jaehaerys died young and the new King Aerys gave Tywin his full support, even making him Hand of the King. Tywin Lannister got off scot free.
I suppose that decision was also a good representation of Aerys' future reign. It showed how impulsive he is, how he shows great favoritism among certain members of his court, and it shows how little justice means to him.
Order of the Greenhand, do you think if Eddard Stark didn’t have such a dumb wife and he got to meet Tywin in the battlefield like he wanted. How do you think that war would have gone? Tywin vs Eddard with no dumb Caitlyn screwing it up would be a hypothetical war I’d like to see.
Ned would’ve won
Best boss ever! But, did the Baratheon ship REALLY sink, or was it sank? Like Tywin would never ever, ever, do something like that hahaha. You made me think that, thanks guys!
a few of us were talking about that earlier...the situation did work out very much in Tywin's favor...that is a mystery we might never get the answer to
Yes, the answer would be difficult to confirm. But knowing how Lord Tywin suffered no rivals, I would certainly call it likely.
That would be especially cold even for Tywin given that he and Stefon had been really good friends at one point but I can see him doing it if he felt it necessary regardless. Heck given the circumstances Tywin would probably blame it on Aerys himself for putting Tywin in a position where his old friend's continued existence endangered his own.
grt work.. very well narrated..👍
Thank you
Your music sounds much like the theme from The Bridge...the Swedish version.
Where did the pictures of some of the characters come from? The ones that look like they could be from the show. Steffon Baratheon for example. Were they in flashbacks and I just don't remember?
Can anybody tell the name of the music playing... it's so good
Great video!
thank you
great video as always guys(: but the thing is that as we see Rhaegar from the quotes and how people like Barrestion selmy and jeorah mormont I see him... honorable? but there's the blood raven thing about the good of the realm, it's interesting to think about. yeah and I have a question about something else than the video. what do you think Cersei did to get Jaime that white cloak and did Tywin find out and that helped to make things go really bad between the king and Tywin?
why would making the truly terrible but correct choice of removing Aerys from the throne be dishonorable? I would not discount the possibility that Cersei did more than talk to the King about it, given her propensity to use what she has to get her "brilliant" plots done, but there is not enough information to know either way
The Order of the Green Hand because a son owns loyalty and obedience to his father not killing them. it might be the right thing to do but it's not honorable.
so him being Rhaegar's father means that Rhaegar as the future of the realm has to sit there and watch his father burn people to death for no reason, torture people, dole out favors and positions to morons that laugh the loudest, disrespect him, his wife, his children, not bathe, not cut his nails or hair, and make a mock of his house and the realm and never even think about doing something about it and saving the realm from his monster of a father?
well, no. it's the right and moral thing to do here. but as Jaime lannister put it "It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other" so Rhaegar honor compiled him to obey his father, protect and do the bid of his father and king. am not saying he's a piece of shit because he done what's right but he also betrayed his father not matter what his father was. if doing the right thing is the honorable thing why did blood raven go to the wall or Ned chose to crown Stannis and not himself or Renly and Ned would've been a great king. all am saying that Rhaegar betrayed his father for the right reasons but that did stain his honor.
When you put it that way I can see Rhaegar and Tywin having a LOT in common.
I love the Duskendale theory. Although I am not 100 percent sure how much Rhaegar was in on it.
When you view the situation through the prism of Rhaegar knowing his father is ruining the realm he is to inherit and the fact he abuses his mother constantly and the fact Rhaegar felt inclined to do Tywin the favor of knighting the mountain (proving there was a relationship there) and the fact that there is no record of him speaking against Tywin when Tywin expressed a lack of caring for whether Aerys made it out alive it seems to me that he had to have been a part of it
Yeah he definitely didn't want Aerys on the Throne, but having him die seems a little strong. You never know with Rhaegar though. He was definitely conspiring though.
I personally think the two people who had the most influence on him in KL were probably Tywin and Pycelle (his teacher and an extension of Tywin), and between the two of them, convincing Rhaegar that it was for the good of the realm wouldn't be difficult, especially when you consider the points I made in the first response
I have not gotten to end yet. Why did the mad king not kill Tywin if he was such a threat
I like the theory that Cersei and Jaimie are actually King A's kids, making Tyrion Tywin's only true born son.
nice, good timing :)
we do what we can
another great video
Thank you!
Yes more of my crack!
hope you enjoyed
The Order of the Green Hand You guys are brilliant! How did I NOT see these things before? Please keep 'em comin' !
I giggle and squeal whenever they upload a new video. It does feel like an addiction when they show up on your feed and you just want to sit down and get lost for 20 mins and not care about the world. But I think the addiction is worth it. Cant get enough Green Hand.
Bring on the crack pipe! I will gladly give in to the addiction of "The Green Hand"! Totally drinking the kool-aid now. Every single drop.
I know many people hate tywin because of the red wedding, but the war was practically won by then anyway. It would have only been a matter of time before the combined forces of Lannister and Tyrell would decimate the starks, resulting in unforetold casualties on both sides. Instead, tywin made one quick, decisive stroke to end the war once and for all.
The red wedding is the equivalent of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, though brutal, it was the most effective way of ending the war.
How come you guys have so few subscribers?
we already have so many more than we ever imagined we would get, so I can't complain...our complete lack of anything resembling social media ability probably isn't helping