Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths, and Motives | Littlefinger: Debt by Design
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Part 1 in our theory series on Petyr Baelish, better known as Littlefinger.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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She was about to ask when is Winds of Winter coming out.
hahahahaha....that's what I was thinking too
No wonder you hate her so much..
its clearly Catelyn's fault the book is taking so long
Well damn, she fucks up everything.
She is the Meg of GOT LOL!
I can see this Channel getting to 100k subs preeeeeetty fast.
The Order of the Green Hand, Preston Jacobs and Radio Westeros are the holy trinity that make the wait for TWOW possible
Thank you so much...that would really be something getting to 100k subs...sometimes we still can't believe we have as many as we do
The Order of the Green Hand is it possible that you may dive into "deeper Dorne" soon? ;)
Someone mentioned your theory about Ashara Dayne + Ned = Jon and Mance = Arthur Dayne to Preston Jacobs and RedTeamReview on their podcast together and Carmine rudely shut it down of course and Preston seemed open to it, he said he needed to see more info but Carmine shut it down before Preston could even make a more substantial comment on it. To be fair to them though it was VERY brief outline, I'm sure Carmine wouldn't rudely shut it down if he watched your videos and actually at least try to debate it.
Do you guys watched other GOT youtubers? Be great if you both did a Q&A.
don't forget Secrets of the Citadel
DoubleO88 I noticed that too! I don't gaf what Carmine thinks, but I wish Preston would entertain the idea and delve a little deeper. it's a pretty cool theory that makes a lot more stuff make sense. I know OOTGH and PJ aren't really buddies tho....but they're both so damn smart I'd cream my pants if they put their heads together.
Ned has this huge sword to Little Fingers small dagger, and he wonders why Cat loves Ned more than him. lol
You guys get better and better. Looking forward to the next one.
Thank you so much!
I wake up and The Order of the Green Hand has a new video? Gonna be a good day :) :) :)
+MrHurch yay! Hope you enjoy!
happy Tuesday to us. Thanks for another amazing video guys!!
Thank you Tracy
another brilliant video and another great series to look forward too.i was looking at the catelyn chapter you refer to-does Varys know about.... i dont know what she was going to say but i noticed something else that got me thinking.when did littlefinger start using the mockingbird as his sigil? when Cat gets the letter from the CityWatchman she sees the mockingbird and knows its from littlefinger. the last time Cat sees him is at the duel then a fortnight after he is sent home and cat doesnt say goodbye.he sends a letter to Cat when Brandon dies but she burns it without reading it. so is he using it at this point or when he gets to court?if hes using it befor the duel then hes a 15 year old kid with a personal crest.if he starts using it inbetween the time of the duel and Brandon dying then how did Cat know it was littlefinger without reading the letter.if he started using it after he gets to court then how does Cat know the mockingbird is his crest if shes not seen him since the duel? Maybe theyve been secretly communicating all this time,the raven would go to Luwin and we know where his loyalties lie. like Jon Snow i know nothing but that made me think that she had been in contact with him.maybe she was going to ask if Varys knew
that point about the crest is something I hadn't even considered...he changed his sigil from his father's roaring titan because he thought it was too fierce...it doesn't say when...that could very well indicate that they were communicating ... plus it still ties into the fact that Catelyn seems to have created the chaos LF needed for his plan to work
Ah this was an unexpected surprise! I've really enjoyed this littlefinger video more than I thought I would. Such an interesting character. I'm going to have to really think about what Cat was going to ask if Varys knew about. Naturally I'm lead to think that his plans to manipulate Lysa to remove Jon Arryn somehow involved Cat but I've not figured out anything substantive as to how or even why but there's a tickling in the back of my mind working on something. Thanks for another great video!
Thank you Jim!! Yes it's a mystery!
he was the one that had the iron banks gold smelted and re-struck.
Most obvious(With information from your previous videos) is that Lysa wrote down that Littlefinger knew about N+A=J. She probably said something like it was Littlefinger who told her. However, if you don't think its that it probably isn't. I'm not really the theorist type. Though I do enjoy hearing them.
Littlefinger most like broke the Tully girls code when they were kids as that seems like a thing he would do (spy on the women he love like the creepy fucker he is) and that Cat either new about it or suspected it. If so she could just be wondering if Varys knows that the Lanisters killed John Arryn. She might also have suspected that Littlefinger was keeping an eye on her in Winterfell (which would explain why she expected him to summon her and why she was in such a rush to get to King's Landing before anyone else) and thus she would think that Littlefinger knows about Bran's fall and the assassination attempt. If that is the case she could be asking in Varys knows about the attempted murder as well.
Merged Zamasu...that is exactly what we think...then she provided the chaos he needed and he helped usher Ned (the only living person who knew the truth) from the world, thereby gaining her the "victory for the sake of her children"...Family, Duty, Honor...family (her children) is first...Honor is last
Cato Minor...I also think LF was way more than smart enough to break a code 2 idiot little girls came up with, or was privy to it the whole time...he also likely dictated the letter Lysa wrote, and could have even added some considering Lysa doesn't seem smart enough to come up with the elaborate scheme of placing her secret code letter in a secret compartment in a fancy box used to deliver a Myrish lens, so she likely gave it to him and he arranged for it to get to Catelyn
I think Catelyn was going to say... "Does Varies know about your affair with Lysa?"
That is entirely possible but what I can't figure out is why George would go out of his way to make whatever she was going to say a mystery by ...ing it and not letting her finish the sentence creates mystery around it....I guess it could be that, but I'm not even sure Cat knows...she has no idea about the Tansy Tea incident, which doesn't mean she has no idea that Lysa was smitten with LF, but Cat recalls how happy Lysa was when she got married and thought she was pregnant with Jon Arryn's child and doesn't think about whether Lysa was upset about not being able to marry LF
That's all good food for thought, thanks for the input.
I tend to try and put GRRM's crazy imagination into my thinking and to the fact that GRRM has a back story to everyone and seems to put himself in their shoes when he writes about them. That being said LF was sent away and ended up in Kings Landing and something tells me that Lysa was happy her father had her marry Jon Aryn knowing that would get her back near LF in Kings Landing. I am not sure the order of events to say this would have been her reason but it would make sense as crazy as she was about LF, After all Jon Arryn was pretty old when they got married and I really can't see that making her happy without some another reason involved.
Littlefinger's cooking show: And today we will be learning how to cook books.
hahaha...love your cooking reference...did you survive that last scene somehow? I'd love to see you and Jesse back in action
Lol that actually works on so many levels, even though it was unintended.
Love your videos! The wait for Winds grows more and more interesting...
it really does...thank you so much
but every episode
"LittleFinger and the batshit sisters" 😂😂😂😂 love it! So true!
Hell ya!
Sounds like a movie title. And since it's supposed to have LF in it, I'd totally watch it. :D
Lady lothsten was a bat
I think the best summary of Baelish is a line from the TV series: *"He would see this country (Westeros) burn if he could be King of the Ashes".*
I would take that one step further...he would burn the whole of westeros to the ground himself if it meant he would be the king of the ashes
The Order of the Green Hand Yes, no argument here! :-)
I'm not going to fight them. I'm going to _f*ck_ them.
I think she was involved with the letter that was originally sent. It wouldn’t be surprising to find out that Pyter was involved in the making of the childhood language of cat and lysha, especially when they were living together.
I can’t say I know the full game they were trying to play,
But the way littlefinger talks about cat, and how cat reminisces about pyter: to me it feels as if they were still in correspondence over the past 15 years at the least, and at the most potentially still good friends/paramours
But what I do know, is that cat is the shadiest character in this book
1. Catlyn, "Does Varys know you slept with Lysa and not me?"
2. Catlyn, "Does Varys know about the murder attempt?"
3. Catlyn, "Does Varys know how stupid I am?"
Haha...I'm partial to option 3
Thom Tisher
No, yes and who dosn't
She was about to ask if Varys knows about Pod "The Rod."
I think you're on to something
It sounds so me like Lysa actually confessed to killing Jon Arryn in that letter, in the encoded part. Catelyn burned the letter immediately because she knew that Ned would go full Knights Templar on Lysa, and have her head on a spike. The main reason Cat would be on board with protecting Lysa, would be to protect her from another forced abortion, and any potential unborn child she carried.
She collaborates with Littlefinger because she knows Lysa always had a soft spot for him and assumes is also out to protect her. Therefore, the most likely question she was about to ask Littlefinger was "Does Varys know Lysa killed Jon Arryn?" Littlefinger cuts her off with "Varys knows everything, except why you're here", meaning: "He knows everything except that."
Beyond that though, Cat's involvement gets sketchy because it kind of demands she becomes either ignorant or stupid (from the "Catelyn sucks" piece, this doesn't seem far fetched). Someone has to take the blame for Arryn's death. Since Catelyn assumes the Lannisters tried to kill Bran, she's on board with the Lannisters taking the fall for Arryn as well. Since Catelyn wants to go to war over Bran anyways, and she wants to protect her sister, she's willing to support Littlefinger since they have mutual interests.
I would take it a step further, I think after meeting Joffrey she knows leaving Sansa with him is dangerous. However she can't just say no to the king, it would ruin their connection to the crown and it would be blatantly challenging the Lannisters without just cause. So she schemes with LF to get rid of that issue. Especially after she thinks they tried to kill Bran.
I think we all know who's side Robert would have chosen in the end. He would have chosen Ned's side. Ned is his bro for life. He could finally rid himself of Cersei and wipe out 3 million in debt if he wins. Plus he could loot Casterly Rock and gain enough gold to pay off the rest of his debt and still have enough to throw one hell of a feast.
In response to your viewer question: Keeping in mind the videos you've made about Catelyn and her supposed plan to get Eddard Stark to King's Landing, and the whole debacle following that, I think Catelyn knows about Littlefinger's involvement in the plot to implicate the Lannisters in the murder of Jon Arryn (or at least she's suspecting it). Since Littlefinger doesn't want anyone to know that there's a plot there, he interrupts her by saying "Varys knows everything", thereby softening the mood of any of Varys' "little birds" that might be listening.
That is just about word for word what we think, except we even think that the mayhem and chaos she causes after her 3 days with LF, where they talked about god knows what, was done purposely...she continuously thinks the situation through, shows a full understanding of the consequences of her options, then chooses the most harmful option...she really appears to have been purposely creating the chaos necessary for LF to succeed, and her willingness to do it suggests that she wanted Ned's secrets to die with him, just like she says when his bones are shown to her
But I doubt Catelyn did all of that because she wanted Littlefinger to succeed in whatever plan he was having. There has got to be another reason for her doing all of this...
I think Catelyn has her children's best interest at heart and that she would do anything to keep them safe. That she doesn't succeed in this becomes clear to her at the Red Wedding. The last few passages of that chapter makes me think she clawed her face open and became insane.
I personally think she was willing to help because she either knew or suspected that Jon has a better claim to Winterfell than her children. It's all about "the victory for the sake of her children" she was thinking about in her second POV chapter
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand but jon went to the night watch so she dont has to worry about him anymore......
If she thought little finger was behind it why the fuck would she trust him?
Plus Carelyn was at the brothel 3 days, 3 days before her husband found out. Little Finger and Cat were sooooo up to something.
I mean that was because Littlefinger didn't tell Ned for a few days.....
My friend yesterday told me he didnt like game of thrones.
Unfortunately he got hit by a bus today.
I also lost my bus driving licence. today.
that's hilarious
you dont need to be friends with that kinds of people. they are not ppl.
madara uchiha Three totally non related events.
Game of thrones is kinda shit.
If we're talking about the show.
A Song of Ice and Fire is brilliant.
HBO ruined that shit.
Co p Well it was good till mid season 5 but later they just took a weird turn.
More more more more more MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!! God you guys are awesome.
Wasn't Catelyn only saying does he know about The Lannisters attacking Bran?
Thank you so much....she didn't tell him about Bran's attack yet...this passage has literally given us fits for close to a year now
Shit I got the timing wrong now it's gonna give me fits LOL
that's what that passage does to me too...every time I think I get a grasp of it, I realize 3 reasons why I'm wrong...the only thought I have that I cannot prove and makes sense given all the things she does is that she is working with LF because she wants to secure "a victory for the sake of her children" like she says in Catelyn II of AGOT, and wants to make sure that everyone who knows that Jon has a better claim to Winterfell than her children never gets a chance to share what they know...Family, Duty, Honor...Honor is last
DoubleO88 Does he know about...us shaggin'?
I think Richard is right. Unless he knows about Brans fall and George wants us to think hes meaning that. Otherwise what other information has been given at that time?
Wait,
"Does Varys know I'm in King's Landing?"
doesn't that make the most sense?
And the "So soon?" Maybe she was thinking about how she was found so quickly, which makes her wonder if Varys also knows if she's there
the fact that he cut her off so she couldn't say it when it had already been established that Varys knew she was in KL at that point and he had just said that Varys would be there any minute now makes me feel like he didn't want to risk Varys overhearing whatever he assumed she was about to say
This dude sounds like Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul
I agree with you!
Getting two strong houses to fight each other is actually an idea of Blofeld of Spectre from James Bond. After one of the two houses have been defeated, you kill the survivor while it is still exhausted. If anything else, I think Petyr have some vendetta against House Stark especially Ned for taking Catelyn as his bride.
it is definitely a good war tactic...why fight someone when they are strong, when you can pit them against someone else that is strong, then wipe the victor out when they are at their weakest
She was probably referring to "Does Varys know about Jon Arryn?" As in that they suspect the Lannisters had killed him.
Or he took Cat's maidenhood. haha
This line has been driving me crazy for the better part of a year now
It meant something!!! But seriously that's so ambiguous I think GRRM trolled us. The only person who can/could confirm what it meant was Baelish and probably the only chance to have him do that is if he feels like sharing with Sansa. You already explained Cat is shady as hell; whatever she meant to say can't be good if they wouldn't say it out loud and Petyr refracted the question away immediately. Possibly not her Maidenhood as he is known to brag about that to everyone.
The Order of the Green Hand wouldn't it be safe to assume that Catelyn new Littlefinger screwed Liza several times and even sired a child and she still had feelings for him? And possibly fathered her son. If this was known, it would put Littlefinger on the radar as a deceiver. Probably would not get away with most of his shit. He understands the game, it's moves, the other players moves and the prize. He's seen as an "other" an outsider, just like Tyrion said...no land, banners to call, ect...he's able to do what he does because he values knowledge, not from a text, but from the game and it's players. If nobody knows he's playing and he knows everyone's motives and dirty secrets, he can use them as leverage. Just like he did with Ned. He knew why he was there, what type of man he was and what he would do. Ned didn't understand the rules and his inability to adapt to a dishonest world got him killed.
MrSkillen805 Did he know you impregnated Lysa? They were talking about Lysa before so it's logical that her question was concerning Lysa!
Naw she frown's on weakness she about them Stark studs though...
I always thought Catelyn was simply surprised that someone had figured out she was in King's Landing so quickly after her arrival. As for "Does Varys know about..." Well, ellipses are used to show someone trailing off, using context to convey their meaning. I thought Catelyn had been aware that Littlefinger, being close to Lysa, was at least aware of the letter and was asking whether Varys knew about the letter without saying so, in case they were overheard.
I dont know why but i always laugh of ned's reaction like on his first day as hand they go "oh btw we are in crippleing debt" and ned goes "Whatm How?"
Everytime you say "so let's do this" i get the biggest smile on my face.
Man i don't understand Catelyn. She seems to love Eddard yet you guys have brought into light this new and very convincing theory with catelyn. What was she up to?
I actually hate when she says that. I find it annoying as hell.
I believe that Rob does not belong to Ned and that he belongs to Brandon and little fingers knows this.
How does Catelyn remembering the night she and Ned made Robb fit into that theory?
The Order of the Green Hand , she is not remembering Ned. When she describes Rob, she is describing Brendon his brother. Her house words or family honor and something. But she is so fixed on Jon being a basturd, that it makes believe that it is Rob that she worries so much about. Because he belongs to Ned's brother. And I'm sure that Liza told little finger of the pregnancy. And I'm sure that little finger would know that she had gotten pregnant too.
while watching Robb with his army, she thinks of the night that she and Ned made a King together
Doesn't matter now... Dude, bastard or not, is ded lol
@@lmeasley1262 impossible, Brandon dies before Robb was conceived. We know that Robb was conceived on Ned and Cat’s wedding night, which only occurred after Brandon and Lord Rickard were burned alive. So no, Robb definitely is Ned’s son.
Imagine how much better Westeros would be if Baelish used his power and intellect for good.
So Ned just expected to effortlessly depose the king and arrest cerci on the accusation of incest. He truly was naive.
If you recall Ned did this while Robert was out hunting. He didn’t know Robert would die there.
O G he confronted cerci in the great hall in front of everyone when Joffrey was named the new king.
Wondering Spirit that wasn’t the first time he did so.
About Catelyn's question, I think it's just about Lysa's pregnancy. It would make sense, Petyr said Varys knew he'd ever been a friend to Lysa, then she's asking if Varys knew How close they were. Just my thought.
The larger points to the story hide in plain sight. Words the "others" "no one" and monuments/reminders of the past like the crypts, the wall and even the hot springs residing under winterfell a world before the seven and immoral kings with vassals that blindly follow like white walkers. Little Finger is both an other and no one. If you understand that you, yourself are nobody but the somebodies have the same flaws as the nobodies then you can use that knowledge to become anyone. Changing your face depending on what move your playing against what player. His outsider, unknown status allows him to play without being noticed and if you are an invisible piece on a board and know more rules and strategy then those who are also playing, then you have a clear advantage. His one weakness is following his dick, first with Liza, which he learned from, but now Sansa. He let her know his motives, which could kill him. Him and Varys are very similar, they understand the game, they are outsiders and never share their motives. Only difference is that Varys doesn't have his dick. A dick is what probably led to a lot of the immoral actions that both Varys and Littlefinger prey on. It almost makes him seem pure because he does not have that one overwhelming urge that all humans have, which is to fuck and fuck people over by doing so. If you act immorally, against societal norms, you leave yourself and your status vulnerable to harm. Also, what's under ground at a lot of important locations? Like Winterfell, The Vale, Kings Landing, Casterly Rock, the house of black and white, the Weirwood where the 3 eyed Raven was? They all represent each of their residents, who they are, how they'll end up and what they believe in. Foundations built upon corrupted truths will ultimately crumble. I think the one spot of what humanity should be like in this fiction is Winterfell. They keep their dead in Crypts to remind themselves of the past. The past is easily forgotten and replaced if there are no reminders. There are older truths to the world that worked just fine before religion came around to divide and seclude the OTHERS. What happened to all those poor souls that perished before the seven was even concocted as a way to save them? The basic premis of most religions are well intentioned as a way to police society, but it's people who corrupt it over time as it is used as another rule in the game, providing rules to break and leverage for those who know how to play. The Others, the Wights I believe are just an extremely corrupted version of those who are secluded from society, misunderstood like the wildlings or the children. Eventually, malice will grow and lead to a reaction, just as hate grows in an individual, like Tyrion and if left to fester you end up acting upon your rage, in this case killing those who treated as an outcast, a misunderstood monster that didn't do anything except being born to a person who understands power and society in its most brutal and corrupt form. Littlefinger looks at the entirety of Westeros this way, with hatred from his experiences as a youth. Society created Littlefinger, maybe he should be king of the ashes.
That was very well said
So happy to see you two tackling Littltfinger's role in this series.
Thanks John...we've been holding on to all of this LF and Varys and Faceless and Gods stuff for so long we couldn't wait anymore to make one...plus we wanted to introduce the debt before continuing with Tywin because he is the largest debtor
You guys have opened my eyes to some things i didn't notice while reading the books. There are so many "Devils" in the details I missed. I'm considering reading the books a second time and see what I find the next time around. Love your channel.
thank you so much
The only theory I can come up with is that there was something in the letter about some plan that she did not want Ned to know about. That plan may have required her to beat Ned there, hence why she was in such a rush to leave as soon as she wakes up. And Littlefinger might have told us what she was going to ask by saying "except why you are here". So maybe she was going to ask "Does he know why I am here?"
I LOVE your wondrous analyses!!!! So much meaty food for thought in your videos, even when I don’t agree with some of your conclusions. I’m still a HUGE fan of your fabulous work!
There are 2 little details about Petyr that nag at me, and maybe you may have some additional insights.
The first, easy part, is that the mockingbird is a drab little bird that imitates the songs of other birds, and often, even sounds made by other environmental happenstance, like machine noises. So how does this relate to Petyr’s use of the mockingbird as his personal sigil? Is it that he’s just sly and amoral, and tells people what they want to hear, so no one takes him seriously as a threat? Is it that he literally mocks everyone? Or is it a tip to the reader that nothing he says can be trusted, under any circumstances?
The second, trickier symbolism, is the name Baelish, as in “like Bael”, the famous Bard Ygritte and Mance keep referring to. So does this imply his theft of Sansa, the current winter rose of Winterfell? And will he try to reproduce with her?
She’s angry with him, but I’m not sure she isn’t also beguiled by him, and that way leads to more trouble for sure.
Anyway, keep up the fabulous work!
we have spent a lot of time looking at his mockingbird sigil...thank you so much
"Littlefinger & the Batshit Sisters" 😅🤣
even though ned does not know how to play the game of thrones he should have known better. by a military and lordly stand point it is almost textbook to keep him in doubt, in fact keep him under surveillance. this is what you would do in camp to someone who is not trusted. i think that if peter was in his cups that night, other young ones were too. perhaps little finger had them both that night. sometime while breaking their fast that morning, gushing lysa told her story while regretful cat kept quite. this may be why little finger is this convinced. he remembers sweet cat, while later drunk and no memory lysa seduces him while he's still game.........
sweet Robin , I'm leaning 80%-20% he's little fingers. love you two!!!......winds of winter please george
I think Cat wanted to ask if Varys knew about the baby Lysa had with Littlefinger (I think it's a bit impossible that the two sisters didn't talk about this, so it's a possible idea).
Is Catelyn aliened with Petyr?
To bad Little Fingers ending in the show was so pathetic.
Seems a lot more could have come from that storyline.
i deem it likely in all retrospects she was asking does varys know about that scar you carry from brandon stark
hahaha...that must be it
Maybe Cat was sayimg "Does Varys know about Bran/ what happened to Bran?"
I have an explanation for the so soon line too. It was that she thought that Ser Roddick could have been caught by the golden cloaks snooping but then realised that he had instead been discovered by the high borns. I took it to mean as "I was discovered so soon? I thought I would be able to secretly investigate for a while"
Does varys know about robb her eldest son. A theory circled around some time ago that robb not jon was the bastard of winterfell Thats what i think anyways
Hey Dono! yea I heard that too. I think that it relates to the contents of the letter she burned.
Jason . Donoghue honestly thats total BS
Best GOT/ASOIAF channel right here, respect
Thank you
The answer is in the passage itself, "Lord Varys knows everything, except why you are here" she was worried Varys and by extension anyone else in the castle knew why she was there. She attempted to sneak into kings landing and attempted to stay hidden until she went to get ned. The whole reason she went to kings landing is because she believed the lannisters were responsible for Brans accident (after she found the blonde hair) and she was going to tell Ned the lannisters attempted to kill Bran because she thinks he saw something (which we all know he did)
It's not a big conspiracy, she just didn't want her plan revealed and was understandablely concerned that varys knew because he may tell the king before Cait got a chance to speak to Ned.
finding the blonde hair is not in the books
you guys helped me get out of the depression when in 2019 I was sick a lot, and now with late nights at work and weekend work, wish I could give it back more somehow
You guys are so great at narrative. When you talk I genuinely believe it.
thank you
(Refer to 1st Catelyn sucks video) All the dialog is about hiding things, Luwins robes, Catelyn naked to appear not to be hiding things. Ned naked and unarmed, completely vulnerable to the scheme. I believe that Catelyn and or Luwin found out that Ned had married Ashara prior to Catelyn, thus making her children bastards and Jon the only true born Stark . The box could have been from littlefinger and Lysa, containing 2 messages. One about Ned's previous marriage and Jons parentage, the other about Jon Arryn. Or the info was on the note she quickly burned, maybe Lfs writing which Ned would later see as hand. The knock was clearly prearranged by luwin and Catelyn. "1st the victory must be won for her childrens sake ". I believe luwin and Catelyn conspired to get Ned out of winterfell in order to then send Jon to the wall where if it came out he was the only true born Stark that would be nullified. "We give up all titles and lands when we take our vows". Ned said "he hoped he would never find out what Catelyn would do to protect the children of her body". I also think that Catelyn expected to go with Ned to KL but accepted being left behind as a price paid for scheming against Ned. Catelyn clearly wanted to see LF without Ned, prior to his arrival, which also leads me to think that LF is conspiring with her, luwin and Lysa. Does Varys know.....About Ned, Ashara and JON?
My Queen of Thorns!!
YES!!! That is totally what I think too! I can't prove it though, which pains me. Whatever was in the contents of the letter Stoneheart burns is the answer to the (...). THE knock, followed by THE victory, with the lens which is an instrument to help us see (gag), followed by a nude stroll through the bedroom, and Ned being completely vulnerable having just had sex with her. Whatever it was she wanted to talk to him about was why she rushed to KL, in order to "beat Ned and the Lannisters" and also relates to the (...). Ugh the torture~ Lady Green Hand.
Lady Green Hand, Its possible that Catelyn wasn't allowing herself to "participate " in the love making because she had the scheme with Luwin about to go down. I know! Not being able to prove what set Catelyn and Luwin in motion is the tough thing! I've never written about this because of the missing puzzle piece. Now Lysa, Catelyn, Ned and Luwin are dead. That leaves LF and Varys, and septer Lamore /Ashara . I hope that when and if Jons parentage is revealed we'll get that (...) that varys knows and he'll tell Jon directly. Thanks for the validation, feels so good not to be the only one to interpret the info as such! Bet You puff out that ice mist cause you're just way too cool! Happy Easter, best Regards!
You had previously mentioned that you thought she didn't want Ned to leave KL alive (maybe it was Lord Green Hand), if Ned was dead and Jon in The Watch there would no one to claim her marriage was illegitimate, do you think that's the reason?
Glockler, That was someone else. I don't think she thought out the ramifications of her actions to that extent since she seemed surprised to be left at winterfell. Where it's going to get interesting is the "there must always be a stark in winterfell ". Jon is the only true born Stark. That's because the blood of a Stark will be required to wake the sleepers from the crypts of winterfell to fight the whitewalkers. I'll post a link to the video.
Yes, I was trying to respond directly to Lady Green Hand. I eagerly await your video.
Great Video as always!! Need more Catelyn Sucks videos!!
+Christopher Barnett coming next week :-)
Thank you so much...we want to figure out that passage we appealed to our viewers to help us with before we move forward with Catelyn
I believe Catelyn saying "so soon " was more about someone spoting her and Ser Rodrik rather than Littlefinger summoning her.
""Does Varys know [what Lysa thinks of who is responsible for her husband's death]?" Petyr needed to interrupt her, as it would indicate that Stark's anti-Lannister prejudice was activated. I still think that the dagger "investigation" was not done so much for Stoneheart-in-waiting, but for gauging Varys reaction - there is no way Varys did not know who won the dagger, and his lack of contradiction showed Baelish that Varys had plans of his own for creating a conflict in Westeros
GOT Foreshadows show Lord Baelish will return in 2021 (2.14.21) - Wed Sansa Stark - Legitimize Jon Snow - Lord Stark (Warden of the North) and Rule the 7 KIngdoms of Westeros...
My presumtion on what Catelyn was about to ask would be about if varys knows about how Littlefinger (presumably) took Cat's maidenhood. I know in the video it's explained that littlefinger was drunk and it was actually Lysa, yet I'm on my third re-read, and i've never heard this one (currently finishing A Clash Of Kings). Can someone quote me the passage(s) where this is explained?
N.B.: I do not deny this wasn't the case, and I found it strange that Littlefinger claimed this, yet Cat seemed to never acknowledge it, I always thought it was Cat who countiously put it away.
In the AWOIAF app it states that Littlefinger took Lysa's maidenhead and called out Catelyn's name, and to this day remains convinced that it was Catelyn who he had sex with that night. In an interview, George also indicated this. :) But no it is not explicitly stated anywhere, and given Catelyn's reaction when Tyrion tells her that he said this, I believe the story that it was really Lysa. Its super confusing though because its a weird love triangle thing, and then when you add in Brandon, Ned, Ashara, Jon Arryn, its a complete cluster fu(k. haha
Well, we all know George loves his love-triangles (where one party is always the unloved one), so this doesn't come as a suprise.
thanks for claryfying, i haven't read TWOIAF, so that would explain why i haven't caught that bit, and after writing this comment i started searching for the answer myself and came across a (I believe) AFFC chapter where Lysa expresses (to I believe sansa (because who else)) that she felt pety for petyr when he got so drunk with edmure that she 'pleased' him. So that was a clear-header for me.
Yet that leaves me empty handed on what Catelyn and Petyr were discussing in ACOK though.
Anyway, love the content, even though it may conflict with what other theorists might think. I think it's important we all have our own ways of interpretating what the author meant in his writings in ASOIAF and beyond.
a lot of the information we use is in TWOIAF app, which is all the stuff like character profiles, city and town profiles, house profiles, interactive maps, creature descriptions, religions, etc that he couldn't fit into the book...its the most worthwhile $5 I've spent in a really long time...in many ways, its even better than TWOIAF book
How does Cat forget about Lysa's miscarriage, or not know who got her pregnant later in life? That's the question we need to ask ourselves.
The timing is so impeccable!
we do what we can
That line that Joffrey says to Tywin about a king being bold and stuff... Could it be that littlefinger said it to him?? Before killing Ned Stark? A king should show his power. Thats why Joffrey killed Ned. That's why nobody knows who told him that. Also if you think about it, Joffrey died soon after saying those words out loud. And people who wanted to know who taught him those stupid words. Really interesting🤔
im at work, and now I'm like...20 min bathroom break!!!!!! yay
sometimes 20 minute bathroom breaks are necessary ;)
The Order of the Green Hand Especially for A Green Hand video!
I would tend to agree with that
“Littlefinger replies by saying... YOU’RE NOT A DISH, YOU’RE A MAN!” This particular add annoys the hell out of me.
firsties
First of the fist men lol
Sansa's childish dreams about marrying jeoffery is bad and annoying, she can't see his real personality? I mean the little shit even hurt the butcher's boy without any reason . how can she be so blind?
OMGOSH! I've been waiting for another one of your videos! I've even rewatched several of them a second time while checking back. You are my favorite channel. All your theories are alway so well thought out and researched. This gives me so much more to think about with Lord Baelish. I would love to see your take on the Isle of Faces, the Green Men and Howland Reed!!! Thank you for what you do!
Thank you so much....we are going to get into the Isle of Faces and the Green Men and Howland when we return to our wars to come series
(WARNING: BOOK SPOILERS.)
I disagree with this clip when it claims that Ned's death is what Baelish definitely intended _ at least at the time and in the way it came about.
If he wanted Ned dead, why did he suggest to Ned that he conceal his knowledge about Cersei's children, and ensure that Joffrey, not Stannis, became King, with Ned as the power behind him?
(Whatever we think of Baelish's motives, we can't say he's definitely wrong in claiming that, *with Stannis on the throne, "... the realm will bleed".*)
Because Ned refused this choice, Baelish went ahead and betrayed him with the Gold Cloaks, yes _ but if his main aim was Ned's death, why bother to offer what amounted to an option for survival, i.e. an alliance with the Lannisters?
Why not just go ahead and do what he ultimately did _ pretend to back him and then betray him _ *without* offering alternatives that would only make it harder to murder Ned?
I can see the attraction of a theory that Baelish wanted Catelyn's husband gone, but I'm sceptical: Baelish would know that Catelyn's first reaction to Ned's death would be to suspect Baelish and blame him for not protecting Ned.
Nudging Ned towards being an all-powerful Hand to an under-age King, with himself rising in Ned's shadow _ that seems very much more Baelish's style.
The one who definitely *did* want a Lannister-Stark war, to tear down Robert's kingdom, was *Varys*:
We know this because Varys later tells Kevan Lannister _ at a moment when we *know* he's telling the truth _ that he needs the kingdom tearing itself apart to pave the way for a Targaryen restoration. We also know that he definitely discussed killing Ned during Book 1.
As against this *known* evidence about Varys, what we have on Baelish, as regards Ned's death, is merely circumstantial _ it looks good at first, with Baelish's (supposed) desire for Catelyn etc, but, in my opinion, appears less likely when one links the lack of *definite* hard proof with Baelish's known preference for intrigue and playing safe over bold and risky acts.
(The one time in Petyr's life when he *did* try a bold and risky act did not end well for him _ and he's never forgotten it.)
Yeah good point! ....he did try to help ned only ned was too stupid to listen.....
I got the impression that when Catelyn was about to ask, "Does Varys know about... " it:
1) Must be something she and Littlefinger both know
2) Must be something that is not widely known
3) Must be something about Lysa
4) Must be something that Littlefinger does not like talking about
The duel was fairly public knowledge, so we can rule that out. Nor was it really about Lysa per se.
It could be that she was about to say "Robert", if he is actually Littlefinger's bastard. Cat could know this if Lysa told her in one of her "secret" letters -- maybe even the one she burned at Winterfell. This is definitely not widely known and of course it is about Lysa. Littlefinger wouldn't want her to talk about it because he knows there are little birds listening everywhere while Cat is new to King's Landing and was on the verge of blurting out one of his biggest secrets.
The tansy tea incident doesn't seem like something that Cat would bring up casually. Nor would it be relevant to the current situation in King's Landing.
That passage has given us fits for close to a year now...Cat doesn't know about the Tansy Tea incident because when her father was dying he begins talking in his fever state and she thought it was a girl he was sleeping with...I feel like it is something that either only LF and her know or maybe Lysa knows as well...it could be sweetrobin's paternity, but that seems to be something that Cat doesn't know either because when she meets him she never thinks about it...this is the first time we feel defeated when trying to figure something out so we decided to appeal to the masses to see if someone who watches our videos could at the very least give us something we haven't thought of yet...thank you for sharing your thoughts...I'm going to go back over it again once I get enough responses...we're creating a doc with everyone's thoughts on the topic and we're going to include a shout out to whoever gives us the idea that gets us to the "break through" in our next Catelyn video
Also, you have to remember that Catelyn and Littlefinger may have had different ideas about what she was going to say next. After all, Littlefinger seems to genuinely believe that he is the one who took Catelyn's virginity. She might have been about to say something more innocent about growing up at Riverrun, while Littlefinger might have thought she was going to refer to "her" deflowering.
I agree that they might have had different ideas about what she was going to ask.
I have just started reading the books, so I can only refer to what I heard is supposed to be in there. Afaik LF kind of brags from time to time about deflowering both of the Tully sisters. So Varys ofc would have heard about it, while Catelyn might be unaware of that, since she wasn't there to hear about the bragging. But I doubt that this is what either of Cat or LF was thinking about here.
Might be about Sweetrobin's paternity, but I'm not too convinced of that one either. Tho it sounds way more likely than Cat's supposed deflowering.
The Order of the Green Hand it is most likely "does varys know about Jons death?"
LF's buy assets with Royal debt scheme will be disastrous for the realm if instability hits the business climate. Since all his plans depend on instability he clearly wants the realm insolvent.
If I had to put my money on something that Cat the Crazy was talking about, it's got to be something that is a direct threat to Littlefinger's existence. So much so that it can't be spoken aloud. Hmm. There's no book evidence to back this up, but sticking with the idea that LF wanted to start a war between his enemies, I'm gonna say that maybe Littlefinger is the one who started the rumor that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna. There has to be a reason why Rickard and Brandon went directly to King's Landing, and not anywhere else. Someone had to have told them to go there, that Rhaegar was behind her disappearance, that Lyanna would be there, etc. If Ned found this out, Littlefinger would be done.
How Cat two floos over the cookoo's nest figures in, could be that perhaps she didn't want to marry a savage, wild Northman. Particularly one with wolf's blood who's reputation preceded him. Why not scheme to free up the woman he loved from a marriage she didn't want? Perhaps in return, she'd want to marry him. Only Ned survived, so their scheming wasn't done. Anyone who read the books knows Cat felt like an outsider at Winterfell, and longed for Riverrun and the days of her youth. Hell, Cat totally disconnects from Ned while making love and thinks of Riverrun. I could totally see her doing anything she could to get out of a marriage and a place she never wanted to be.
The master of Chaos.. he's like Butters from South Park - Professor Chaos!
Rob Stark was most likely Belish's Son, etc...
Catylin worried about her children's claim to the Stark titles too much for them to be Ned's kids...
I hate Cat, but there is no way any of her children are not Ned's...I would love an additional reason to hate on her but there are several passages where she thinks, not says which would leave it more open to interpretation, about her and Ned making a king that night, or that his father taught him well, etc
Your theory about NED bring married before Cat makes sense too.
Which makes all her kids Snows by default in reality.
Definitely tinfoil here, but maybe Cat knows who Jon really is and knows he's the rightful heir to Winterfell. Maybe she was working with Littlefinger to help get Ned killed so Rob could rule. And, maybe she was about to ask if Varys had figured it out.
But, if she was, she wasn't very smart about it. She didn't realize that this plan would draw Robb out I into a full out war, in which he could be killed?
we don't think that's tinfoil...we think that is
How do you guys think that? All that Cat does in her chapters is pray for Ned and wish he was with her
1st: You guys rock! I love your videos and theories. I've been re-reading the series since I finished it the first time through in September. I'm really going back and analyzing interactions and wording and potential foreshadowing (which is why 5 months later, I'm only on AGOT Eddard IV!).
2nd: You have a possible typo in your video. When you are going over the Tyrion sequence from ACOK, on the card with "But do I dare touch him?" You cite it as AGOT Tyrion IV instead of ACOK Tyrion IV (like the rest).
3rd: I have come back to your Littlefinger series specifically after re-reading just the first portion of AGOT Eddard IV. Here are my ideas (most of which are based on the "secret" or "hidden" influence, visiting dreams, and the three-eyed crow theory you guys have in regards to LF):
- "A fool I may be, Stark... yet I'm still here, while your brother has been moldering in his frozen grave for some 14 years now." What if Petyr had a hidden influence on Aerys?? I can't think of any connection he may have had to Aerys directly, but what if he was the reason for Brandon's demise?
- How did Petyr know of Bran's condition (to send/persuade the Cat's Paw -- if he did)? Varys' little birds? His own whisperers? Dreams? How does this work for him? Is he solely in it for Catelyn?
- "I could never refuse your wife anything." Did Petyr compel Bran to climb (so he could satisfy Catelyn's request/prayers for him to stay behind at Winterfell)? Did Petyr convince Jon to join the Night's Watch?
- Catelyn slept for days after the attack on Bran and then came up with her idea to go to King's Landing. Did LF visit her in her dreams? Is that how she knew the Mockingbird was his sigil before she even got to King's Landing after not having seen him for roughly 14 years? Has he visited her frequently? Catelyn was also asleep before the gold cloaks came knocking at her door at the inn. Is that how he knew they'd arrived?
Keep the videos coming! Thanks!
Also (watching your second Littlefinger video right now), is the reason the assassin didn't expect Catelyn to be in the room with Bran because Catelyn hadn't slept in the time she was with him??
I guess I assumed she was talking about whether Varys knew about Bran and the attempt in his life, the reason thst Cat came to King's Landing. And Littlefinger, guessing her meaning, answered her.
Love this channel! It's like reading/watching ASOIF all over again, only with all this new cool underlying info.
Awesome job y'all! I'm happy to support you guys on Patreon, hope others from here do as well. (Hint hint my fellow fans! ;-)
Thank you so much....and thank you for your support on Patreon...we really appreciate it
he cut her off because he knows there are little ears in the walls, or even varus ears in the walls.
Ok I have watched a few of your videos, and you two have become a favorite, I'm glad I checked you out. Definitely recommending you to my other G.O.T. friends.
awesome.! thank you so much. :D
Great video, Petyr one of my favorite characters in the book. can't wait to hear your theories on him. The rest of your videos got me going back to the books again.
Off topic, i just finished ACOK and noticed for the first time Summer saw a great winged snake. Your thoughts?
Thank you...I'm going to hold my thoughts on the winged snake because we are going to do a video about it
Does anyone think sweet Robin is not Jon Arryn's, but littlefingers?
Little Finger sure doesn’t act like it
Thousands of people, I'd say.
6 million gold dragons should be at least €600M. I doubt Littlefinger accumulated ALL that debt.
On the one hand, it is described he was extremely efficient; and could also multiply his funds.
On the other hand, "some tourneys" aren't cheap at all.
Yes, he embezzled wages of non-existent officers and laundered the money in his brothels. But it wasn't so unreasonable the Lannisters (themselves financial masters) weren't suspicious that he could afford brothels or how much profit they made.
There really are ample examples of nobles leaving their lands totally bancrupt (mostly, we profit from their "follys" until today in Europe - austere forts just don't make good tourist attractions, and "De Arte Venandi Cum Avibus", the falconer's medieval "bible", was preserved and translated by one of those who left their heirs pennyless - but effectively restarted falconry in Germany).
If only Littlefinger profited, those "6 millions gold dragons" would be so little the Lannisters or Tyrells or Arryns could pay it with no problems; but even the Lannisters have to ask the Tyrells to pay half of the wedding. That's spending no little lord can do without the finance tycoons of Westeros noticing.
At most(!) 600,000 gold dragons of the debt went into Littlefinger's pockets, most probably far less. Littlefinger simply didn't give up any numbers, but provided funds for everyone who asked. Also, honestly, Robert Baratheon wasn't the kind of king who'd take a "No" from his Master of Coins.
I am quite certain that Joffrey was NOT influenced by Littlefinger.
Joffrey is crazier than the Tullys combined squared. Executing Eddard IMO was his idea.
More. Had Littlefinger tried to influence him, chances are he'd let Ned live just to spite him.
Joffrey is a clinical psychopath. All experience IRL proves you simply cannot control psychopaths and it will backfire if you try.
that point you made about Petyr convincing Joffery to kill Ned is just brilliant, and actually makes sense.
"Does Varys know about...?"
Catelyn is going to ask if Varys knows that Lysa gave Littlefinger her maidenhead and might have secretly born him Sweet Robin. The first part was a family scandal of which Catelyn is aware. The second part is something Lysa might well have confided in her sister; alternately, it is something Catelyn might have deduced from her long knowledge of her sister's instability, Petyr's deviousness, and Jon Arryn's weakness. Certainly if Arryn was impotent Lysa would have confided this to Catelyn, not realizing it is contradicted by the birth of Sweet Robin.
This is what Catelyn is about to ask. But Littlefinger still believes Lys's maidenhead was Catelyn's, that they share a dangerous secret, and so he immediately thinks this is what she is about to ask. This is a function of his justifiable arrogance with regard to predicting the intentions of others, as well as his sense of self preservation: Littlefinger knows Varys will have little birds listening to their conversation and he does not want these facts revealed, because he does not know what Varys does and does not know.
That's my take on it.
I’d consider that possible if Catelyn knew Lysa even liked Littlefinger, but Catelyn makes it clear that she’s so self centered that she was completely oblivious to that fact
Walmart clerk intercom: price check on moon tea it's not ringing up again!
Love your channel by the way. I would of subscribed a long time ago but I've been using my hand held for so long I could subscribe using my "official" email so I had to finally fire up the old PC to log into my "personal" gmail account and so here I am and again I love the channel and best of luck to you guys
thank you so much
Has anyone considered that Catelyn was asking if Varys knew about..... Robb being a bastard. It's said in the books that Brandon Stark was a wild wolf who liked to see a woman's maiden blood on his "sword". It's possible they hooked up before Lyanna was taken by Raeghar and his death left her unwed and pregnant like her sister. As the father was a high Lord it would make sense her being wed to his brother to hide the shame of bearing a bastard.
it seems like she would have been very noticeably pregnant when she married Ned of that were the case...Brandon left her after his duel with LF to go meet his father's party at the crossing...when he got there, he presumably found out that Lyanna was taken by Rhaegar, so he rode to KL, where he was arrested...Rickard Stark and the fathers of the other men Brandon was with were then summoned to KL...Brandon wouldn't have died until a month to a month and a half after he left Catelyn...at that point Ned still needed to travel through mountains for hundreds of miles, find a fishing boat, wash ashore on Sisterton, find a boat to White Harbor, ride to Winterfell, call the banners, wait for them to arrive, then march south to the Crossing to meet Jon Arryn, then march to Riverrun, negotiate with Hoster, ride to Stony Sept, save Robert, and ride back to Riverrun to marry Catelyn...Ned's part of the trip would take about a half a year by itself, let alone the fact that Brandon left Catelyn a little over a month prior to Ned's journey beginning...it seems to me that she would be in her third trimester at that point, which would make it impossible to hide
A perfect example of a Neutral Evil.
I am torn with the whole cat little finger scenario as much I don't think it likely I can't help but feel like she's been in league with little finger the whole time, and with the whole wild goose hunt with the dagger for us the reader to be pointed in joffery's direction with out 100 percent confirmation this is my feeling though certainly wrong. Cat is completely blown away at the fact that she has to stay home, then when she finds out Bran is being taken from her she preys for a way to let him stay he falls now not only does she not get to go but Bran by most accounts isn't going to live then she gets all paranoid that should she fall asleep Bran will die I think she set up the assassination on Bran then wanted to call it off but couldn't she picked a blade from Roberts armory that would be unmistakable I don't think she really understood the history behind that dagger or maybe she did but right after survives the assassination attempt her and her alone need to go to kings landing all of a sudden bran doesn't need her taking care of him and everything she does when she leaves kings landing furthers little fingers agenda snatching up Tyrian when 10 minutes before she says this cannot come to war then fires the shot heard around the world given how selfish and twisted cat is I find it plausible but it leaves to many unanswered other events but it would be a real mind blower. on a side note this is for your faceless men video and the connection with the Moon Singers and the likely connection they have with the Eyrie I can't think of a single place that has as many connections to the moon built in the Mountains of the Moon then there is the gates of the moon the moon door made of Weirwood, and the Fact that Sansa is taken there Bran beyond the wall with the children and Blood Raven and Arya with the faceless men in Bravos which was founded by escaped slaves lead by moon singers and I dunno if it just a typo or if there is something significant about when Tyrian describes looking through and describes looking down at all the stars below it makes no sense they are not In outer space and there are only a few way castles below and wouldn't you describe seeing the fires or lights from the castles below and not stars. is it a portal, a way to view the world clearly, I highly doubt it was made as a means of executing prisioners/enemies maybe sacrificed for some ritual but clearly something more the moon is often discribed as watching people in the story and also seems to relate to the others alot they first appear under a cresent moon also the moon is commenly referenced being in reflected in peoples eyes or not at all under the moon light many things appear to be covered in a silvery light something huge is going on with it and the moon thoughts sorry about my lack of punctuations I know it's a pain to read and once again great work your videos. and sorry all this is jumbled up
We feel exactly the same way...we can't prove it, but her actions benefit LF more than any other person in the realm...every she makes another "blunder," LF's position gets stronger
It's almost certainly, "Does Varys know about the letter that Lysa sent me/the murder plot?"
It makes his response make sense, too "Varys knows everything, except why you are here, because why the fuck are you here of all places?"
How can you fall for Catelyn is beyond me.
Some people want the most what they can't have
And they keep getting better !!!
The idea that one man would be able to embezzle the lion's share of a kingdoms wealth without anyone noticing for over a decade seems very unlikely. Surely someone like The Spider would notice if one of his rivals was stealing that amount of money. If Jamie can find out that Littlefinger has been paying people that don't exist surely Stannis or the Spider would have puzzled it out rather quickly. Also suddenly buying a bunch of brothels when you have no legitimate way of having made the money to do so is not a good way to hide the money. I have no doubt that Littlefinger embezzled a lot of money but I can't see how he would have been able to put the kingdom in debt doing so and not get found out unless everyone around him (ie the entire small concil) was in on the scam or stupid. Neither of these things seem to be true. What is more reasonable is to think that not only did Robert hold many more tournaments than previous kings but that he also paid his own travel expenses ( which for a ruler were very expensive, for instance Hadrian is rumour to have cased milled starvation amount the local farmers when he moved into a city). The books give the impression that Robert spent a lot of time on the road as it were. He also had Stannis build a fleet and pay sailors for it which would have cost lots of money. I just saying that it would be rather poor righting on the part of Martin to have the debt be even mostly Littlefingers fault, and Matin does not seem to do poor writing.
George makes a point of saying on more than one occasion that Lords consider money managing something that is beneath them, and with Varys concentrating on uncovering plots and schemes, it is highly unlikely he is paying attention to LF's ledgers...he would be watching his actions and who he was talking to, trying to figure out what he was up to besides doing his Treasurer job...it has occurred to me that Jon Arryn was catching on to it and that is one of the reasons he had Lysa kill him when he did
the things Robert spent money on wouldn't be nearly costly enough to get that far in debt though...building a new capital city like Aerys talked about doing would cost that much...building a few war ships, traveling to the Reach, drinking wine, and hosting an occasional tourney would not
The issue is that even if Varys was largely uninterested in the ledgers and had no financial knowledge (he is the Spymaster and not the Treasure after all) he is to smart of a person not to no LF is up to something and that he is using his power as Master of Coin to do it. Real life people that embezzlement to entire wealth of a Nation (as LF would have to be doing to be the primary cause of the Kingdoms debt) don't even try to hide what they are doing because even a poor uneducated peasant will notice it. There were at least 3 people on the small council with both the wisdom and an interest in trying to prevent such extraordinary corruption (Jon Arryn, Varys, and Stannis), and LF only had one of them killed. If he was really steal that much money and thought someone was catching on he would have to assume that three of them were working together. He knows that Stannis and Jon were both investigating the parentage of the Royal children so he should assume at the least that these to would likewise work together on getting to the bottom of the money problem. Also I think you underestimate how much constant tournaments, and royal travel costs. Caligula almost bankrupted Rome in 4 years after inheriting a massive budget surplus. He had no major construction projects and the historians of the time attribute the debt to his lavish public games and expensive lifestyle. If Caligula can put a nation into massive debt in 4 years with spending on games surely Robert could do the same in 15.
Still, Varys was a part-time gaoler. It seems odd he wouldn't have picked on the non-existent jobs about there.
Prof. Cecily Cogsworth
But corruption is quite common even in modern western countries today.
Also Varys wants war but later so it might suit his agenda perfectly if the crown is deeply in debt by the time Aegon arrives.
Littlefinger stumps Varys by starting the war too early before young Griff is ready.
I’m going to leave this on a few videos.
You guys a freaking great. Your so real. Like even when I disagree with a theory or interpretation you guys are so honest about everything and have so much content and respect for the communtiy, the book and the author. It’s absolutely amazing. Also unlike many other great channels you remain pure and haven’t sold out. I have never found such a great channel. Seriously. The world needs more creators like you. N+A=J I HOPE is correct.
im almost certin Catlynn was like a lannistar traitor man she totally was in cahoots with little finger!
it really appears that she was LF's best player...the chaos she created helped him more than any other character in the story
I hope you guys go into littlefingers obsession with redheads and the female whent line!
Coming up definitely at some point. We let the videos take on a life of their own, so can't guarantee which one it will be in, but it will definitely be in one of them.
What if Lysa's note was about proof of Ned's marriage to Ashara. That would explain why she burnt it & why she raced him to Kings Landing. Tho i appreciate spending a month at Bran's side instead of securing Robb's inheritence is a but of a hole... xx
Ok, it’s clearly supposed to be that she was about to ask him if he knew about the Lannister’s “treachery.” Him cutting her off was so he’d avoid a direct lie
The Order delivers yet another brilliant character analysis.
My knowledge on House histories is fairly limited, I'll confess. I do wonder though, what relation your order has with the Green Hand. By my records, Garth Greenhand's last direct Gardener descendant, Mern IX, perished upon the field of fire, bested by Targeryan dragon flame.
I take it that your order would rather not see another Targeryan rise to prominence?
I see there being a very big difference between wars for political power and titles in the series and wars such as the one that is coming down the pike for life itself...the war where King Mern Gardener died with almost all the knights of the order was one for titles, power and territory...I think the order serves a "higher purpose" that is above politics...we also don't see the Targaryen's significance as being much more than they were the Valyrian family that survived with their dragons...they were no more than petty lords in Valyria...500 years ago if you asked the Valyrian nobility about the Targaryens, 85% of them would say "who?"
and Thank you
little finger is a baaaaaad dude, hes to slippery and sneaky
truer words have never been typed
If Cat made everything to send Jon to the Wall, probably she was also behind Arryn's death. Maybe the idea came from her and Petyr found it a perfect away to finish Ned. They arranged everything so she was expecting him to summon her.
our ideas on the topic are very close to yours
But benjen is the reason jon went there.....he was not influenced by anyone other than benjen...you mean to say benjen was working for catelyn?
"HELP US"
Reaching back to Catelin part 1, a good guess regarding the thing that Catelin doesn't say to Littlefinger, could be that Littlefinger found out that Ned Stark was wed to Ashara Dayne at the time of Jon Snow's conception, meaning that all Cat's own children are legally bastards, and thus emphasising the need to get Jon Snow shipped to the Wall...
that's what I think too. I wish I could prove it. haha
Nope, Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. No where close with that theory😂
Man, everyone is on Baelish & the Crypts (Winterfell) today/past few days..lol.
Always the best! I'm sharing your channel all over the realm!
No, no...! I don't want paid! Lol, jk..I'm a free advertising machine for a few different things & you're on it so consider that a compliment from an OOTGH junkie! Haha...ttyl!
*Valar morghulis...*
Thank you so much! We are so bad at social media marketing ourselves so it is much appreciated! Valar Dohaeris
The Order of the Green Hand It's my pleasure!! =D
Thanks! Can't wait for more, haha..Alles Gute, Salut, and/or best wishes! ;)
Valar doheiris