New Changes Coming To Star Citizen: Major Updates On Medical And Respawn | Real Talk Episode 2
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- This is my second entry into my developer podcast series where we talk with a former Planetside developer about Star Citizen and the state of the game. This video focuses on the new spawn changes in Star Citizen 3.23, and what this change means for the game. I reference a thread I posted about this change with some dev replies and commentary, which you can find here:
robertsspacein...
I was pushing for changes to the respawn system for a long time and have had a lot of videos talking about the subject, including a big portion of our first podcast episode.
As always, let me know what you think, and don't forget to check the new keybinds/settings video I put out for Star Citizen 3.23!
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I was initially worried about "dumbing the game down", and losing the "sim" aspects of the game. The punishing style of more sim-oriented gameplay I wanted is not for the betterment of the game and will not make for a large community of players to foster long term growth. Respecting time was the key conclusion I came to last night before I watched your video, along with physicalized cargo and supplies needed for respawn. The C8R and Nursa have limited stowage for gear, and this is a good thing for team play and logistics. I am 100% in favor of CIG making this change. I embrace the accessibility, CIG is striking the right balance here. Really fantastic discussion, I hope others can come to the same conclusion.
I'm sure they can. The thing here is, and like I said in the video. You can have hard-core elements and such without wasting time. Time is the part i am against wasting. I think we can do that with QoL features and good mechanics.
We can have a better more hard-core game that doesn't waste time. That isn't hard-core.
BTW I'm gonna pin your comment you earned it
@@BuzzCutPsycho You're right, and I don't know why I was so hung up on everything needing to be so rigid and needlessly hardcore before. The hardcore elements really are still there, just in a different way: skills in combat, logistics, even in doing the industrial activities well. Teamwork, too. I recall you saying this might be the most pivotal update for the game and change in direction, or one you were most excited for, and I agree with both. I waited for modularity for what seems like a decade, and even knowing that will be here in a few days, I'm more excited for this fundamental change.
You are wrong. The direction NOW will lead to death and no growth. Mark my words.
I had commented on your thread, currently the 4th most upvoted base reply. As a person who does rescue beacons as one of their main loops (mostly for the fun dynamic and ever-changing variables), I was quite miffed by the change. I will continue to disagree that Medics aren't needed, or are 'practically worthless', there will always be a need for community driven services like medical, refueling, repair, and taxi services. I know you color your world through the PvP glasses, and often forget about the average rando who just does PvE missions, so from your viewpoint, your points hold more water, but don't forget that a significant portion of the players never do Jumptown or meet up for some PvP dogfighting.
That all being said, the more I think about the changes to spawning mechanics, the more it seems a nothingburger towards my gameplay. Folks who are going to bring a pisces or nursa to a bunker are probably the same ones who would have just hit backspace previously, and it may not even reduce the amount of rescue beacons that go out. I am still somewhat afraid of the fact CIG keeps changing things that they've claimed were 'not going to change', and features that people paid for and pledged (such as the benefits of the Apollo, for example) - and wonder what will be next to change.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching. I will give you a pin since this is such a reasonable comment.
I think a lot of players dont do jumptown precisely because the respawns are so punishing time wise. And as for your assessment about not being affected because those players would have backspaced anyway, i think u make a great point.
I just see it as what kind of game they want to make. I don't think it would fully ruin the game but it will give mega orgs a huge advantage over solo and small groups as smaller groups will be punisbed for dying where large orgs won't care.
Combat wise it will turn every fight into finding the enemy spawns instead of strategy killing fleets.
Also people are going to shove these respawn ships in the most annoying places possible to keep them safe.
When players can get a combat advantage they will cheese whatever they can even if it's shoving a rover into a cabin orfillinfa javali. With medical respaw. Supplies.
Simplest balance for respaw is probably making respawns have a cap of home many can be saved there and when a lot are saved it reduces the total number of spawns.
@@Marlax-101 I think there's a medium where certain ships can be classified as spawn ships. So even if you have an Nursa or a rescue is not going to be able to respawn you. You would need something like an Apollo and higher to allow respawn.
I mean in games like Battlefield mainly, you would have to hunt down the respawn beacons because allowing a recon to put a spawn beacon down often meant the opposition can just keep coming back from that one position.
Its a valid tactic so lets say you have a fleet of ships that are allowed to be soft respawn points and a deployable field base that has a medical wing that can respawn. The defending army has to either take that field base or destroy it...driving the opposition off planet. Then from there they need to hunt down the fleet or it'd just be a flood of drop ships going down planet side to reconstitute a field base.
The medical beds having a respawnable point is to test things out as a mobile spawn point for the players. In reality respawns will be restricted to T1 beds that would be in an Apollo or Capitol class warship, space ports and planetary hubs.
Want to add depth to medical play? Require someone be present and operating the medbed for a respawn to occur. e.g. Once downed the player's body appears on the bed, but does not regain functionality until the medic gets involved, and then depending on available resources, skill, and time spent the downed person gets healed all or only some. Basically a health version of engineering play. Or, if you don't want to be that strict, make is so that absent a medic at a low level med bed the respawn is less than perfect - say you come out of it with your T1 only healed to a T3 instead of full healed.
There you go. That is one way to do it. Make medical a TEAM EFFORT, not a guy with a medgun like WE ALL HAVE.
I think standing around waiting for someone to respawn sounds like the engineering gameplay. Only there, you can be in a gunner seat doing something.
I do like the respawn broken idea, and require a medic to fix.
Automatic beds are as much the problem as the med gun.
Foxhole logi driver here. Totally agree. Im still amazed at how painful CiG has made things other games have already done
I think they're slowly realizing the mistakes. I think.
This is great news. I commented on your video about the horrible respawn problem about how I missed when I could reswawn in my cutty red. Medical game play as it is right now is just a made up onesided loop. I didn't buy a cutlass red for that. We aren't there yet, but this will save me 10ish hours a month
.. Also a small group of people who plan ahead and prepare this can be a force multiplier for them to fight a larger unorganized group
It's wild that we are getting it all back. I want to believe we all had a part in this by providing feedback. I dont think many people outside of this youtube community was really talking about this.
This podcast is a banger. I hope you guys keep this going and it keeps you both interested.
Of course. Always lessons learned.
This can still work with the death of a spaceman. Just like med levels in the blood, the more you die the higher the "goo" level, and eventually, your character starts taking permanant "damage." If you don't die for a week, your "goo" level goes back to zero. So it changes from total death per losing your character, but deaths within a timeframe.
I am all about loss but I do not think people are going to go for perma char death. It is a psychological barrier people wont like. I will happily take constant stat loss that needs to be recovered over time, etc, all that. But not char deletion. Even if it is only symbolic.
@BuzzCutPsycho I am trying to look at it as a balance between fear of loss and actual gameplay incentives. Where as, as ground slog plays out, you watch your "goo" or "toxicity" or "DNA" damage grow, you will be sooner or later faced with a choice to endure "character development" or retreat. I don't think SC will work with Battlefield or Planet side style attrition in battles. However, the current concept of death of a spaceman is completely impractical, and I agree with what i think is your viewpoint of it.
I don't want players to be fearful of every minor loss, but I also don't want to see logi scaling reduce it to "Red Army" levels of attrition
My guess is roughly 4 respwns should be the max before your "goo" levels should make you think twice about dying and respawning. With roughly 6 hours to "detox" one level of your DNA damage. So after 24 hours, you are reset and can die another 4 times in a row or whatever. I'm just throwing numbers. Could be tuned harder to be easier.
I think in SC, having an incentive to minimize repawns is good, but players can not be punished for needing to respawn to a degree.
Basically, a forced attrition mechanic in larger fights and a limiter for people "throwing their lives away" like kamikazing. I'm not sure if that would work so well for the latter.
Additionally, you could easily add money sink options to "rehabilitate" DNA damage at certain locations. Just a limiter on endless death respawn loops. Even with logistics. I just want a nudging incentive to get players to behave a little more organic, but not so much it makes the game stale.
It also would scale opportunity for teamplay in incentives. Having friends that will fight to revive you lets you play more aggressively. Having orgmates that will rescue you increases the risks you can take. It still provides value to "medic" gameplay but at larger scales. While freeing up lower scale players to not being trapped, waiting for some stranger to save them. Having someone rez you just maintains your options to take that risk later. Apes together strong.
I am so glad they implemented this change! I'm all for!! Less time spent traveling, more time spent playing the game. People who want to have the immersive medical gameplay can still do so if they'd like. (thanks YesterGearPCii for the beautifull comment on this)
You're totally right and people act like this is going to remove med beacons from the game. People who want or need them will still use them and likely have more options.
I like how in the thread mentioned all the biggest detractors to the change are just vote farming with emotional appeals.
"It removes the only consequence from the game" like the consequence for losing in every game in existence is not just that: Dying.
"Don't invalidate medics with this change!" As if the medical beacon system is not just an abusable mechanic where you can effectively mug a guy for 15k then gun them down with no penalty.
also: how does the pulling (and loading) of a soft spawn invalidate a profession that still effectively does not exist?
This is like if people started stomping their feet and whining that ground scanning for infantry would invalidate the Terrapin, when the Terrapin still does nothing cool/unique!
People cannot understand there are more concepts and ways to experience loss that isn't just time.
Based respawns
BASED STAR CITIZEN CHANGES WORKING MARKS UP ON SPECTRUM INTO A SHOOT
Really good discussion guys. Nice to hear some logical points raised about this.
Thanks! We try to spit ball ideas and theories. Just for the fun of it. We don't expect stuff.
pull a sunderer
LOAD THE GALS
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread. If you die you fail your mission. Therefore medics are needed when respawning on an unique mission or a mission that if failed has a hefty rep penalty.
Good point and it was not mentioned
When they get the scanning mechanics better developed (particularly for the ships meant to have that specialty) I think it would be pretty satisfying to uncover these mobile spawn points of whoever your opposition is.
Yup. They will be the focus of a battle. An organic objective provided by players.
So many nights I've just said fuck it and logged out because of bugs, random deaths, 30k's etc. When it can take near an hour to get back to where you died, sometimes it just eats up all the available game time. Anything that gives more time having fun I am alright with. Been waiting for the 600i rework for the medical bed respawn. Prefer 600i over Carrack. Now I can stick a Nursa in the vehicle bay and go do what I enjoy with a respawn point in my favorite ship.
And one day you will get that 600i with its better bed!
@@BuzzCutPsycho That is going to be a good day.
i love the apothecary idea. It could be something like a transmitter that is in tour body to make the respawn possible and they are a valuable resource. Or you recover the last part of your memory in form of stats or reputation. But that can only happen if dead bodies stop falling into planets and dissappear.
Endless possibilities really. I hope cig runs with reapawn and gives it depth.
Alright jumping into your video, let's hear your take! Cheers, the more we discuss things the better!
It is all just discussion. I'm very excited to see where this goes and how we can provide feedback.
From my uneducated perspective, it seems like it would be very easy to leverage the engineering mechanic to create a “fuse” that slots into a med bed and has x number of respawns worth of energy. Then, each vehicle that has a med bed can hold a different quantity; let’s say the nursa can hold one “fuse”, and that’s three respawns worth. You can keep a backup, but that takes time and money to accrue and store, and of course is lost if the nursa gets destroyed.
I think this would allow for different sizes and types of medical vehicles to all have a place.
I believe that is a good idea.
Another thing i believe we would need is to make something like: If you want to respawn on a "Mobile Point" (from a Veichle with a med bed) Then it should be Outside of Combat! for example 10km outside of a Combat zone in a circle. That can be for a T3 bed. And the limited number of respawns due to a relay is a really good idea. A bigger tier bed - like T2 or T1 will have more respawns and bigger zones in KM!
How about medical goo as a resource? A bigger version of what we have in our med guns.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Reads good
@@BuzzCutPsycho Already a thing in lore. Made by the same company that has its logo pop up in character creation.
Medical goo that can be created in medical ships above the c8r....
All those bodies lying around..... Just waiting to be recycled.
This will sell alot of Nursa's that's for sure. We use to have respawning in the Cutty Red so I'm glad it's coming back even if it is just temporary... Again.
I will buy them!
Not sure why Nursa is preferable to a C8R rescue other than hostile bunkers will not shoot at your approach (yet.)
@@ThomasD66 Gear. Can't fit extra gear in C8. Nursa in any ship that fits it is a huge game changer.
I liked the ideas of respawn affecting character ability, whether it be a temporary impairment to stats or like a ticket count down, wherby when you get to zero then you have to do some logistical action to replenish the (mobile) respawn ability.
Yup. I can very easily seeing med vehicles carrying something similar to med gun ammo. Big vats of green med goo.
The main gripe of the respawn is that it negates the value of a higher tier bed. Who needs an Apollo? If you have a Tier 1 injury, then walk into the medical Pices, suicide, and then loot your own body.
Maybe there's a limit: Respawn in a Tier 3 bed, you are alove and cured of Tier 3 wounds. But you still have your higher wounds?
There will likely be other limitations further down the road, no idea but this could be one of them. Lower tier beds may have other side effects to regen as well
I'm very confident the higher tier med beds will come with significant benefits
One thing you guys didn't talk about is spawning and ground locations. Especially when talking about ground combat locations like jump town. While this change is excellent, for the time being attackers will be unstoppable because defenders currently will not have respawns no matter what.
For this to be a complete feature, every major ground/space combat location must have an internal respawn point for defenders- but these defenders should be subjected to spawn resource too! This can be done in a number of ways:
-Ground locations now include a power generator somewhere inside. Blasting this generator will quickly drain/stop the flow of spawn resource in the ground location
-hacking gameplay! Hack into a ground location to covertly and quickly drain the spawn resource and make it easier to win. Or hack the spawn capability itself on a timer, once the timer reachers zero the spawn list is cleared
-fight to the physical spawn location and clear the spawn list for a direct victory
-ground and space combat locations must be supplied at a specific resupply point on the exterior. This forces the defenders to push the attacker outside to keep the fight going.
There is so much more to this resource and logistics thing, but it must be mentioned that ground locations must be included, otherwise attackers being able to respawn is moot.
I did not want to put the cart before the horse. You are totally spot on and I and Malorn will both get to this as we see how things pan out. I think that the med spawns will mostly be worthless due to how powerful aerospace is and how easy they will be to spot. Time will tell.
@@BuzzCutPsycho yeah I suppose it's baby steps with this stuff. It will need lots more to encourage real scaled ground combat, but it's a start.
They gotta add more medical gameplay for people to be upset about this change. This change is good for big battles between orgs, it encourages on site respawns and logistics for gear in the resupply point. It creates objectives for enemy guilds to target said supply points to get rid of them. The only thing they should prob add, is penalty to respawning over and over, and making the ship killable without CS penalty if the ship wasnt piloted for a time.
If they wanna fix the people crying about medics being useless, they should add medic missions where people can go rescue NPC's by healing them, creating a rep to earn to rez players. Than make a emergency express lane where if they are going to heal a player they quantum jump quicker. That eliminates the time issue people have with medical beacons taking to long. For worrying if they are gonna get killed, just create like a heavy CS when someone kills you during the beacon, and they lose the ability to take medical beacons for like a week.
They could also always just add missions to rescue revive and transfer NPCs to hospitals and such. Stabilize them, etc. It should shut those nerds up.
I am enjoying these talks and seeing the different takes and ideas being spitballed.
I would even be in favor of a universal med timer that all players bound to that Med Vessel share. Ie, the first x # of players that die can instantly spawn, then if y time has not yet expired, then the next player to die has to wait a short period to spawn.
The more frequently the players die, the longer the spawn. It would definitely need tweaking but would help prevent the"Zerg."
I ain't against it. I'm sure the bed will have a cool down. One bed can only spawn so many people so it has an inherent built in delay. May make ships with bigger and more numerous beds better too. Not a bad idea whatsoever.
There was never any real medics in this game. There's just a all in one medical tool that anyone can use. People just don't like change which is silly because the game isn't even finished yet nor will it be for a long time. There will always be changes.
Everyone with a medtool is a medic.
I told my family that I didn't had to go to med school as they were saying. I can be a sufficient medic if I buy a gun. 💀
😂 @@Thearmiktz
This video only exposes the opinions of PART OF THE COMMUNITY. I have done medical beacons, and players, so long as you engage with them and tell them you got their back, WILL WAIT FOR YOU. the player that won’t wait is the kind of player that used beacons as traps. Not everyone does. Our expectation from this game are fundamentally opposite.
Beacons are not going away. If people want them they will make them.
I think what people forget. Every bit of gameplay loop in Star Citizen is subjected to change that includes the beacon system. We are moving towards team gameplay and as much as the lone wolfs hate that idea...that's where this game is heading and was always heading.
You want to be the Cyberpunk type org that does medical rescue...got knock yourself out. The thing is most orgs will have an inhouse Pararescue unit that for the most part will tag along with the assigned unit. I mean the org I'm fleshing out will have its own Pararescue unit but each unit will have its own Medical specialists embedded into the squad with their own ship that is pretty much there to heal the squad back up to full.
I fundamentally think the ones who are crying the loudest are the ones refusing to team up and join orgs. Why bother playing a game that drives cooperative gameplay in a group as a single player. I will for the like of me never understand these kind of people.
How do you feel about NPC beacons being something these orgs or players can do? It makes sense to me. Can make the gameplay that much deeper too for the medical focused people.
@@BuzzCutPsycho That's the thing, to me those are given. If anything it should be a given as a play loop. Its just to me all the barking I'm seeing are those who want to be the one man army instead of just being a team player.
In a PvE, I'd love to see rescue type missions. Not just the standard service beacons but ones where the player has to have a team to exfil NPC squad out of a zone.
Example: Exfil beacon: price 25,000 aUEC + bonuses. Drug bust has gone bad and immediate backup is needed any CDL forces respond...Immediate CASEVAC is needed, several casualties...send help [scrambled signal].
Missions like that, where its multi-faceted and geared towards medical specialists and their support staff. Go in, kill x amount of Ninetails/Xenos. Resuscitate 5 Planetary Security, heal 10 Security and extract 3 KIA.
Something like that would be a good loop to add in.
Then you got the ones like "lost in the woods" and "Big game hunting accident". Like anything NPC missions should be a given and its like I pointed out before...emergent gameplay these devs are using is a lazy copout. Trying to use emergent gameplay to feed a Medical and Piracy loop is like trying to carry water in a 10 gallon hat...its not going to work no matter how 'fast' you try.
Haven't had much time to try out the new elements of the patch, but have played it enough to be impressed with the stability. Played for an extended period on Saturday and had no crashes. That alone is impressive.
Last few patches I haven't called for a rescue when downed. I just backspaced, threw on the newb suit, ran to the ASOP, spawned a disposable ship (eg. Cutter or Titan) equipped a multitool and flew back to the bunker/location, retrieved my own corpse, reequipped everything then finished what I was doing. WAAAY faster than anything else. When running bunkers solo I'll probably continue to do this rather than deal with the hassle of setting my respawn on the off chance I get downed.
The stability is insane. Usual SC jank is present but the rest is good.
I recall RP'ing walking as a bunker hostile having the medic shoot me then giving them a CS.
Hahahahahaahahah now that is RP i can get behind
So pretty much everything I wrote in the third episode was covered here. Lol that's what I get for watching shit backwards. We're on the same page about just about everything. There is a fine line between trying to make the game something that it isn't, and realizing the scope that the environment might one day be capable of. We have a very unique opportunity here, you can tell by the language of a lot of your subscribers that there is a lot of martial knowledge in the group, understanding, planning, and executing some more complex maneuvers is going to be a huge benefit for those that realize it. (Simple is better, but the more simple you can make a complex thing, the better off you are).
I'd like to see Apers mines added, and true artillery, but i'd settle for ships armory's spawning with the weapons we place in them like they did before (just make folks pay for the hardware).
Another great talk bro, love your content!
Love your comments! I think a lot of the guys we have here tend to be on the same page for the most part or pretty close. I also think a lot of the viewers here favor the bigger multi-crew gameplay that just is not in the game yet. I expect a pretty big boom in the channel once this game, if it ever, caters to something multi-crew which is what my passion actually is. Not fighters. Fighters are just a means to an end for me now.
For field kits I actually would load the cargo crates with things. I don't think suits would fit but rifles, water, food, some ammo all in one box. I'd make 20-30x before an op with the team and every time I died my refresh time to get shootin again was muuuuch shorter just having grab and go kits.
I would like that. Or loadouts. Something to make the game less of a chore for simple things
The thing that tickles me to death are all these PvE folks rallying against the change... when this benefits them the most. It's like shooting themselves in the foot because the cake they got wasn't the flavor they were 'promised'. Everyone has a fucking medgun. Medics aren't a dedicated "role", it's just a tool you carry. I wish they'd understand this.
They don't understand this because they married themselves to an idea that was pitched to sell a product that did not exist. Turns out real players in real games don't like that nonsense.
Love it another great podcast and a crazy follow up to the first episode.
None of us saw this coming. An insane turn around and something totally out of left field.
With all the time sinks in the game, It's about time that cig started to respect players times and offered a quick spawn point to get back into the action.
I agree. I was so shocked by this.
My one argument with your line of thinking is that none of the games that have these mechanics last the test of time. Not wow not foxhole not planet side. You’re not investing anything in these games so you as a player don’t really care. As soon as the new shiny game hits the market you will drop the old game. How does CIG retain their player base that made the game reality. It’s easy to make suggestions when you have nothing to lose or offer.
I believe all three games you mentioned have stood the test of time, especially WoW. PlanetSide 1 failed because it shifted away from its core identity, making logistics and other aspects less important. PlanetSide 2, despite its financial success, struggled to maintain momentum and was plagued by mismanagement. I discussed this in a MandaloreGaming video. As for WoW, while it remains popular, some aspects could be improved.
The backers who initially supported the game on Kickstarter are now over a decade older, and the funding they provided pales in comparison to that of newer backers. The project's scope shifted around 2014-15 and has remained on this trajectory since then.
One thing though, let me quote you.
"It’s easy to make suggestions when you have nothing to lose or offer."
I have backed over $30,000 USD into this game. Now with that information think about "what I have to lose" if this game ends up being bad and nobody plays.
What upsets me about it is.... they already had them spawning us at one time.. guess when that was... yup... when they were selling the Cutlass Red and Carrack. That was what SOLD SO MANY cutless red ships. Then they took that feature away and caused many of us to trade out of those cutlass red ships into something else because CIG was steering away from it's, thought by us to be, intended purpose. So after swallowing that, we moved on and traded into different ships.. NOW that other MEDICAL SHIPS are on the CLOSE HORIZON, it's time to buff the hell out of medical ships to MAKE THAT SALE again! the way I see it.. If this changes into a REVERTED DECISION, fine, I'll chalk it up to a TEST CIG made and didn't like the results so they reverted.. but my thoughts are that this is a TEMPORARY FEATURE put in place to SELL MORE SHIPS. Let's watch progress and see if I'm right. Because I'm smelling LIES and FRAUD here really strong if they SNATCH THIS FEATURE AWAY AGAIN. ** And you couldn't be more right. MEDICAL GAMEPLAY is annoying and I always hit backspace.
I hope they don't take it away again. Game looks super fun when I see the old cutlass respawn point videos.
I dont really care so much about the "medical gameplay' but more so org battle sperm suit zergs (you do get a suit and helmet when you respawn). I think this would shift tactics to "kill on sight" for red vehicles. Even so, there is a lot still to be determined. I saw on the Idris tour that they had the bio-goo packs (what is supposed to go in the empty rectangle slots on Pisces and M. Ursa) that provide the "stuff" to regen your body. I can see the number of respawns a bed can do limited to the amount of goo you have on hand to refill the beds
People without armor die in under a second. Way under, actually. I think it is a few hits. I am not worried when I am in heavy with a FS9.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Fair. I was more worried about the meme than the danger honestly. My other points I think are fair as well. Like I said, you can actually pick up the goo containers when you are on the Idris tour. You know those empty slots on the Pisces I’m talking about?
You signed up for a Space SIM!!!! At CitizenCon there were Booths of major Refueling orgs estimating there response times to you in PYRO for emergency refueling. If we are just going to throw out Medical Support gameplay now, does that mean we should go ahead and get rid of refuelers and repair ships too??? Because hey based on your tone you don't want to wait for them either...
I recommend COD as an alternative for those who can't wait for support services.
Why play CoD when I could play the new and improved SC?
You signed up for a constantly in development pre alpha game from over 10 years ago. Things change. Often for the better. In this case for the better.
You're very vocal on the forums about me and now in my comments. Would you perhaps like to have a private chat about this on Discord? Just the two of us? I did not appreciate you suggesting I have any private interactions with CIG. I have never done so. I clarified this in the video. I simply provide feedback and experiences from past titles I either played or worked on.
Our discord server is on the channel. Discord.gg/enclaveoilrig
Idea for respawns. Rather than the current system. Make it so you can plug a data chip into a bed or station. Your home planet always has your core code. You can plug your source data chip into one extra location (station) and you can use consumable chips that have a cost to plug into beds. The bed has a limited number of chip slots depending on tier, so t3 has 3 chip slots you can use all 3 for yourself or share the 3 with friends. T2 more. T1 way more
Could work, Don't ya think refillable med goo is a bit more elegant though? ;)
@@BuzzCutPsychomed goo goes along with that as well. The goo ensures a need for logistics to keep respawning (hopefully nothing as utterly painful as inventory management is right now), the chips give cost/benefit to taking different types of beds, avoids goofy distance related respawns, gives the data runner goofs a start the that gameplay, makes the different tiers actually have some weight, and hopefully means CiG would allow respawn choice lol.
Mobile respawn points are an overall positive for time saving and org vs org fun. However, medical game play might be good to keep for some other game play purpose. For instance, reviving a player might preserve their reputation, compared to repeat respawn which degrades reputation. So, another time cost benefit/role playing/logistics choice.
Of course. Revival would help circumvent or reduce something negative im sure. I fully expect that
My biggest issue is that it is once again a t0 implementation with zero communication of the devs to explain the overarching vision.
Imo the SCL should have been about respawn mechanics and medical gameplay. But instead they just throw it in right before a sale which makes it look even more scummy. Especially if you remember that this isn't the first time they introduced exactly this mechanic with a new medical vehicle just to take it away again.
CIG once again handling this shit horribly.
I don't think there is a nefarious plan to sell the Ursa by doing this. That thing would have sold like hot cakes just like the C8R did. People love that crap. This is just good design by CIG that the community is deciding to apply a conspiracy to.
I am sure we will get more info on SCL about this. Give it time. I trust them over there at CIG. And I still think you're cool. Have a
I just mean that this outcry from the community was obvious and the silence on some of the concerns regarding medical gameplay makes people feel like they aren't seen.
CIG should do a better job at communicating their vision in its entirety and not leave everything open to interpretation. Because that's just asking for trouble (aka fueling conspiratory ideas like introducing it only to increase sales)
They should plan the introduction of big changes more carefully ahead of time and combine them with good communication and explanatory posts.
And I don't trust CIG, they still have to prove that they know what they want to do. Right now it just looks like random flip-flopping.
A somewhat balance could be that you respawn with the injury fixed to the type of bed your respawning into..... like you died from a T3 bleeding on a leg and chest.... ok you respawn with 0 injury in a T3 bed. Now you died again with a T1 injury in your right arm and t2 in one leg, you will respawn debilitated and need to go find proper medical fix in a hospital, in this case if you were in a carrack or 890J you only remain with your T1 injury ( not now as there is no t1 ship, so i guess that would be fixed as well)
Sure. Even respawn sickness like Malorn said. So many ways to fine tune this. I think that people are over reacting to the real impact it is going to have on the game. It will be miniscule. For now anyway. But I know for sure we will get better ships handling better respawns. I'm very confident in that.
My personal headcanon is that you singlehandedly convinced CIG. Which leads me to my next point: can you please start making videos about how great Orbital Mechanics (akin to Flight of Nova) would be to have?
LOL I have no ego like that I do not think I at all convinced CIG of anything. But I will look into this NOVA thing. It's a game right?
@@BuzzCutPsycho Yes it is. One in which flying actually feels like flying a spacecraft. It wouldn't be suitable for combat, because at orbital velocities, you'd never hit anything with the current weapons as implemented. But now that we have Master Modes, it could be done for NAV. The most straightforward way would be:
1. Increase maximum velocity to at least 3000 m/s in NAV.
2. Increase the cutoff distance for gravity to be well outside of atmo (for instance, put it at 150km over Microtrech). This would require moving the planetary stations up too, unless you want to put them on orbits too, which would make a lot of people really mad.
3. Create an MFD page that shows basic orbital parameters like apoapsis, periapsis, eccentricity, true anomaly, etc.
4. Profit.
Once this is achieved, the mission feature team could put defunct satellites or similar into low planetary orbits and create missions to intercept and repair them for instance.
The thing thay worries me most about all this is the timing being right before the sale of a new medical ship. I hope this isnt just a marketing scam that will be reversed in short order.
I think that is just what people in SC do. It is far more fun to pretend like it is a nefarious sales driven idea instead of a gameplay one.
@@BuzzCutPsycho glass half full kind of guy huh? Im not so lucky. In anycase i hope if we show enough support, cig will feel confident in their decission and really commit to it, whatever their motivation may have been to begin with.
@@karmabad6287 I'm pretty sure the med Ursa would have sold buckets anyway. Just like the C8R did. People love those things.
@@BuzzCutPsycho touché.
You are inflating the problem of spawning at a station. I know very well because my standard procedure in an accidental death was press backspace, go to the closest hangar, spawn my disposable Mustang and I was in the bunker in less than 5 minutes. Maybe 3.
What about when the bunker is away from system? Or you wanna buy FPS gear? Or the ship you want to claim has a small QT?
@@BuzzCutPsycho Guess you are playing a game that doesn't exist. And if you want to buy FPS gear at that moment I guess you didn't prepare. It's all about logistics.
@@tafferinthedark
The only logistics you can comprehend is the time it takes you to drop your wife's boyfriend off back at his apartment.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Wow. You tend to go really low in your videos, but this is a new level. So much for your credibility. Anyways. It's not like you ever were someone to take seriously.
16:30 PS2 bascially in a nut shell when your APC gets nuked unless we get group respawn locations meaning you can chose which BED to revive at kind of like RUST?
I never played Rust but more like planetside 1. Same concept it sounds like.
Based takes. What a breath of fresh air.
I'm dangerously based at times.
@@BuzzCutPsycho it's why I love your videos. Lol. One day UA-cam will start removing them for being too based.
@@crispy9175
Already plan on it happening.
OK you know i'm gonna go in deep on this but i'll try keep it short.
In order to make medical gameplay viable it can't involve PLAYERs at all make it NPC revives and Ibrahim Sypher retrievals
Now the way i would like to introduce a RESORCE managed game is to have Ibrahim Syphers function like a experience pool like DARK SOULS. if you die your sphere is left behind and your XP you gained while ALIVE in that sleeve is BOUND to that sphere.
every time you upload your sphere data you save your XP pool
Experience is gained by activities like cyberpunk running carrying heavy equipment shooting.
the idea is you become accustom to your new body and the data allows you to be more effective in the body.
When you train at the gym to increase your endurance, agility, constitution, gun proficiency (aim assist could be a function)
but if you die and do not recover your spear you LOSE all progress.
If you can not retrieve it you can pay for a medical recovery (20k) and all the mission is they go to your dead body salvage what's there and upload your sphere for you which refreshes your stats.
Medical beds Should also have a Resource requirement (green goop barrels of Biochemicals for printing a body)
T1 beds can have 1 respawn instantly active but require a regeneration period for the 2nd and only allow 2 respawns.
T2 Beds can have 2 instant respawns and 2 reserve goop barrles)
T3 up to 8 instant respawns but require larger barrles and the limit is set by the ship type and medical bay,. (so could be balanced)
The idea is to make spawns limited but have a way to keep feeding the body printer with more resorces so having a COST to it.
I Do think we need a functional reason to recovery of your body, be it to recover your stuff plus "cut your sphear out of your old body)
now i'm looking at Star citziens Avatars like WESTWORLD hosts.
I didn't know if i wanted the atibutes to be bound to the body or not. but i think if we have and EXP system bound to medical play and allow you to passivly grind some stats but have Major stats like HP and Agility being a buy in process.
this way players will have a reason to FPS espcailly if FPS gameplay increases their aim in SHips to.
now i know i said my stuff is long at some point buzz i wanna get in touch over any SC topics i'm kinda pissed with being censored because i'm aware of things that could make of break the game.
(no won't be correcting any grammar or spelling mistakes)
TL:DR ships with med beds can all respawn you, you will lose attributes on respawn and have to recover them yourself or pay for the recovery which generates a mission for a medical recovery, they will be able to take your stuff if you left any.
All bed should have a RESORCE requirement and a TIME gate on spawns (ready time say 5 to 15 mins to bake a fresh clone)
the recovery is for your attributes (buffed stats from gameplay exp) in order to BANK your Exp you have save your sphere data which buffs your current body with the stats.
Medics recovering other peoples spheres is the core way i could think of justifying medical missions outside reviving NPCs.
I want Bodies to be something you can keep in a cargo grid cooler like having your combat sleave with Night vision you got for compleating a bunch of Spook missions
or the Ace pilot sleave with A larger gimble aim assist target retical or the engineer sleave that can do engineering operations faster
maybe the navigator sleave that has access to quantum beacon libaries from the faction you was given it by.
like i'm going full Altered Carbon here because that show makes respawns fun and scary,
Do you feel the resource should be the same as the one we have in our med guns but bigger?
@@BuzzCutPsychoyes! But where does it come from how it's made. Like maybe it could be like the milk blood from Ridley Scott's androids . Why not salvage bodies being medical gameplay .
If returning to your body is anything it should be say the exp recovery and have a dark souls banking system for buying perks
Emergent gameplay is Def huge but we know cig is short sighted and have cut off the best minds from the community . Maybe a cig Dev will see this video because it covered everything I already said
Medic gameplay should not be considered for only other players. There is too much focus on other players when it comes to SC. There will be NPC's that need medical game play. We need to stop thinking the game is only about other players. The PVE content will be expanded to include NPC's to involve your professions with. You will be tasked to go and heal NPC's, save them and get them to a certain location, etc.
Sure, great point. And I bet people will have plenty of rescue missions to do on NPCs. Great point again I never even thought of that.
You nailed it. NPCs is totally the solution for this and I agree 100%.
Thank GOD im sick of flying millions of miles after for a bug that got me killed good idea CIG!
Let CIG know brother. Change is coming and it is good!
Buzz if CIG duck this up i think we should all go make our own star citzien
I aint got the capital
@@BuzzCutPsycho actually if CIG are doing what I Believe , so my theory is star citizen becomes a HOST platform for individual MMO projects designed by smaller studios inside the Star citizen framework.
sub leace a star system allow a 3rd party to create Totally unique assets but use the star engine to make the whole thing.
this way you'll have SO much variety of gameplay and specialized to work as an independent from star citzien game but be INSIDE it
yes kind like a more perfected Dust 514 with themes instead of just being star ciztien.
so it's like WESTWORLD you land on the planet you go though the gates and enter the themepark world where it's bascially a westworld pioneer game you build your house join a village fight for resorces on space horse back and have shoot outs etc.
it will do what star wars CAN never do because disney are NO way creative enough and i hope i meet someone i can leand an ear so i can get that seed planted.
i already said that a VR sub game couldn work to be like a shop clerk simulator or VR bartender allowing a full range of mo cap gameplay to make the NPCs no longer NPCs but Player assisted avatars that will be more animated than what CIG could ever do manually,
then you can train the motion data of Vtuber players etc. there is a huge demand for social gameplay but again TOS and stuff it's gonna be hard to put a cork in the bottle if you give these places away.
but yeh just for understanding what page i'm on and i fully believe star citzien is on that path already.
so if we do get to build our own star ciztien it might just be in star citzien anyway.
I had the thought today... Did you happen to play in the payer-made tournament when Star Marine launched?
I did not, no. Did they use Cutlass Red as spawn?
Medic game play doesn't make sense unless in a battle field experience or when death of a spaceman is realized.
You are correct
Just getting started, but buzz, I have been evangelizing the ideas you laid out in your first respawns video for a while now. Unfortunately, people aren’t receptive to it. They tell me changing respawns will remove all challenge from the game and make it a complete arcade experience. Unfortunately, it’s going to take some time to get people to realize the truth about maintaining fights and CIG’s ability to balance respawns.
Most of those people telling you that are not very smart.
@@BuzzCutPsycho someone told me they don’t support respawning in ships *at all*! I just have to assume they just haven’t thought it all the way through- otherwise I’d have to be a lot meaner about it.
i would say have like a equipment insurance, so i can pay some money to get my stuff back instantly even that means i will lost all the stuff in my backpack, the problem with the current game is there are too many bugs that prevent us get bake to our body, or too time consuming to buy an other set of equipment, i just want to logout when l lost all my shit.
I never understood why we don't have equipment insurance. Seemed like a no Brainer to me.
Depends what kind of game they want to make. Survival adventure respawns will ruin the challenge.
If there is a ton of respawns then big orgs will overrun smaller groups and combat isn't as flexible because groups will be focusing on finding and taking medical resources and as soon as you loose them you lost the fight.
We covered how you keep people from being over-run. If groups are large enough to bring and sustain large numbers they deserve to win. At that point if you are beating your enemy while also keeping yours supplied you've just won. Every game needs a winner.
@@BuzzCutPsycho if you play survival games you know how annoying it can be to defend a base with 4 people against 80 plus for 10 hours and need to log off. If t3 beds are respawns they need to be dragging bodies back to those beds so smaller groups can at least pin down the bodies or find the t3 easier. T2 and T1 beds will be clearly seen by the ship that are in.
This guy gets it.
We try. It was what we worked on for PS2. :D
Im just thinking, this respawn point also can be used on our NPC crew? It will be great.
I don’t know. It could be I'm sure.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I can imagine how you can take some PVE, FPS mission and do it with your crew.It will add so mutch variety on gameplay
was agreeing with a lot of the points until the silly "Death of a space game" comment. Clearly a core direction the game is going you are not for.. so.. maybe speak for youself when everyone knows its coming and is clearly wanting it if in the game..
The original concept is silly. And we explained how you can have the idea without the exact design which is long gone.
The people that are mad at this are funny. Like it's not fun to sit and wait for someone to come pick you up. There's been so many times that I just closed the game because I died in a bunker. The spawns shouldn't be unlimited and imo they should cut the distance in half for the ranges. This is
They also forget that people can still do that if they want. This isn't changing. The medic players were just self entitled babies who wanted to feel special.
@@BuzzCutPsycho right, the current medical gameplay is just trash right now. I liked the idea of feeding bodies into the machine to make biomass, what would be cool for example is something like an Apollo circling something like jumptown and allowing players to spawn and you could kinda use it as a drop ship too. There's so much more that can be done
The "medic gameplay loop" question is really unnecessary. The game isn't punishing for players to play ambulance, people play ambulance because the game is punishing. I feel like you're inverting cause and consequence there.
Someone might not want to respawn because x or y reason, medbaiting is relatively rare nowadays, and besides it's legitimate gameplay as well.
Having these new respawn options is great. It really doesn't take away anything from the medical players because the people who need that help in the first place are people who are lacking preparations. These people will not be more prepared until they learn.
Also since Planetside was mentioned, I had to drive an Ursa on Hurston recently and I DREAM of a driving model similar to a Sunderer's. Please give me a Sunderer. CIG please I'm begging you.
The URSA is the closest you may get to one for awhile. Unless it gets cloaking!
But it's such a pain to drive !
Also these new spawn points are a boon for medbaiting, lowkey, because it's a lot easier to kidnap someone when they can't just respawn at the station. Kidnapping someone in their own spawn is a rare delicacy.
Several times, you and your guest dismissed the current medical gameplay loop because it was a one-sided mechanic that only benefited the medic and wasted time for the player. However, you might not want to dismiss gameplay based on this criteria if you like PVP or pirating. To a cargo hauler, a Pirate intercepting and soft death'ing their ship, killing them, and then stealing their cargo is a waste of their time. It's one-sided gameplay that only benefits the pirate at the expense of the cargo hauler. Setting trap medical beacons is gameplay that is generally only fun for the ganker, not the medic responding. They have no reputation system to know you are a bad actor and If you are using a railgun, that medic may have no warning whatsoever before being killed. That is gameplay that was only fun for you and wasted the time of the beacon responder.
And you can bet that in SC, most PVP will not be consensual; it will be gank or ambush-style PVP where the attacker dictates the terms of the engagement and is the only side that can come out with any kind of meaningful victory. The victim, even if they fight off the attackers, may not have had fun, may have lost significant time, or treasure repelling the gank/assault. This happens in EVERY game where PVE and PVP are mixed and PVE is required for PVP (engaging in PVP risks the time and materials generated during PVE).
Now, I agree with a lot of what you and your guest have to say about Medical gameplay and better gameplay loops. I'm a part of a medical organization, and most of my gameplay time in SC involves medical rescues. In the long run, I think this change could result in MORE opportunities for rescue, not less. Ultimately, I want the game to move forward in meaningful ways and not get stuck just because changes might affect existing patterns (MM anyone?)
The piracy argument in terms of equivalent merit to medical being a waste of time or depending on one to suffer to have fun when you actually think about what goes into each one.
Piracy, on the rare chance it happens, because it hardly does. Relies on several interactive things happening between both parties. The cargo hauler who does not want to fight should be doing and planning the following. These are all interactive and keeping him in the game btw.
1. Checking commodities and seeing what and where there are needs.
2. Planning a route based on that.
3. Having an escape plan or skills to escape should the rare piracy happen.
The pirate, will have to do exactly the same and hunt the cargo hauler. But will also have to bring a Mantis to keep them from running as well as a cargo ship to bring back the booty. All these things require interaction on both sides.
It is also worth noting I advocate for the "nearest station" as a respawn option separate from all other options so cargo haulers can actually go back and contest the pirates if they want. I've said this in previous videos. My big respawn video to be exact. I'm all about saving everyone time. Give it a listen if you're bored.
Here is medical. Hold on, you ready?
I'm downed and I put up a beacon and then go AFK. You can still do that post Ursa. How is the medical respawn change removing that? That is the better question. If people want or deem your service necessary they will start a beacon. The fact that they don't speaks volumes.
Hopefully medics get NPCs to rescue since they don't have IRL responsibility.
Find the AMS !
SCAN IT DOWN
I think we should start calling it Planetside 1 instead of Planetside. People get so triggered hearing the word Planetside becuade they think we are talking about PS2.
Nobody even remembers PS1 sadly
@@BuzzCutPsycho That's so sad to me.
I know that the gameplay is shit for the patient but, I would like to know where does my hope endeavor stands in all this.
Could be a system wide respawn with near endless spawns.
Sooo now we have a medical Corsair for SAR missions hmmmmm
Yup. Just mind the signature.
i'm out of the loop, where's the announcement of the medbed changes?
PTU patch notes
@@BuzzCutPsycho found it, thanks!
This is very empowering to zerg tactics while again being a nerf to the outnumbered....just like sniper glint. This will only remove someones ability to fight the zerg as numbers will mean everything in the end. I'm expecting an AoE cap on bombs next to kill the game for everyone but the mega-orgs. That is not a healthy future and this is not planetside 3.
Respawns are totally irrelevant to zergs. You'd call anything that outnumbered you by even a small bit a zerg. This is an MMO. MMO games have numbers. We already covered why zergs won't matter you just didn't listen.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I can 1v5, I can't 1v50 because the 5 people keep respawning 10 times. Don't be so disingenuous. We all know even if it's based on biomaterial that the zergs will bring that in large backup quantities to feed the war machine. You yourself love logistics. Don't tell me you wouldn't do this. The lesser number probably won't have the luxury of doing so.
Let's try not to turn this into planetside, we don't spawn with free explosives to take out Sundies in this game.
@@vengefuldevil5195
Pleaae don't call me disingenuous. If you're a long time viewer you should know I say what I mean at all times.
I could 1v50 in PlanetSide 2. I was the Hero of the Republic for a reason. Plenty of videos to back up the claim too. I also brought friends.
Why not bring friends? Also, you don't spawn with weapons in SC like you do in PlanetSide. I am pretty sure you could kill a near endless amount of fresh spawns with an FS9 in SC. But they wouldn't be endless because they would run out of resources before you did ammo.
Also just kill the spawn point. You have a space ship. Ursa aint tough. Are you going to be upset that players protect it too? Because of numbers? I'm sorry I am not seeing a negative here.
Nothing you said makes SC sound bad.
Lets say You're right. Just tell me how pure medical orgs are going to function now? How do You umagine average medic career path to function. Because if You tell me people already respawn without waiting for medic to get them up then Im gonna counter it with: because they lose little to nothing. If there was severe disadvantage and cost to resoawning willy nilly people would wait for that god damn medic ;).
Secondly, we are missing proper reputation and crime system to eliminate stupid medical beacon traps and murdering psychos.
And thirdly we would need medic NPCs to take over in case no human response.
All of that with increased server size would lead to actual good medical gameplay for both medics and their clients. Tell me again, how medics are going to function in ur ideal world with everyone and their dog respawnig like they are playing CoD.
I am right. Anyway.
1. Why rely solely on players for reviving? NPC contracts could be implemented for rescuing and reviving players, transporting them back to stations, stabilizing them on beds, etc. We already have contracts for rescuing NPCs from NPC piracy, which are indicated by beacons. There's no reason why a similar system couldn't be implemented for medical purposes. Dedicated medical organizations could undertake such tasks.
2. No reputation system will completely prevent trolling or killing of medics. There are numerous alternate accounts and various methods to circumvent regulations. Players will always find ways to engage in PvP. Always.
3. Even with respawns, there's no need for NPCs to take over revives. Players can still use beacons if they prefer. As discussed in the podcast, nothing prevents that option from continuing to be available.
@@BuzzCutPsycho
ad. 1) Yeah, as I said, we could get rid of T1-2 bed respawning, leave it only for T3, most advanced beds and add NPC services in case no player responds. Simple as that.
ad. 2) Nor anyone expect it to. It is ridiculous to have that binary thinking, either it prevents it all or doesn't work. Is the crime system in general a failure because people still find ways to troll and grief? It is meant to limit those behaviors to a reasonable minimum. Not eliminate the "uneliminatable".
ad. 3) And nothing prevents people from buying things they can also get for free on the same street. it is laughable to think allowing players to respawn left and right with little to no effort is not going to affect medical careers.
Speaking of. You still didn't tell me how You would imagine the medical profession to function in a world where everyone and their dog has a personal hospital outside a bunker.
Apollo inbound $$$
It'll likely be the best medical ship
This real talk series is begging to be a podcast
It sort of is. Still a work in progress for the two of us. We work a lot. :(
YUPPP
Hooah
OMG listen to this is jus like listen Jesus teaching Bibles, punish by time for a game is just stupid!
Oh I'm not like Jesus. Big fan of his though.