Thor Pirate Software's View on Star Citizen's Exploitative Consumer Practices
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- Опубліковано 14 бер 2024
- Trimmed down clip of Thor Discussing the Game Star Citizen's exploitative business practices of spending money on an unfinished game.
Taken from the following stream:
• GAME DEV Q/A 💜 Go Make...
Check Thor out @PirateSoftware - Розваги
Some more context for people coming across this video, Star Citizen has raised to date over $644 Million as of 2023.
gamerant.com/star-citizen-24-hour-fundraising-record/
I do hope they're able to get the game finished, and keep their promises and projections for what they're trying to create. Looks like there are monthly patches and updates which is good. I just hope they don't get stagnant with updates, and provide value to the people who have backed and supported the game thus far.
Personally I'm not a fan of an unfinished game with this much funding turning into is what in essence a unfinished Sandbox marketplace. That being said, I don't care what you do or don't spend your money on, just be responsible, and don't harass others over spending money, or not spending money. Always remember, there can be constructive criticism, and civil discussion about the game from both perspectives. People can like or dislike different things, and that's okay.
Last year was yet another record year of over $50MM in not-sales.
CIG should be sued…
@@taccntb4345 oh, they have been. Several times. The fact that they keep winning because of their extensive list of caveats and disclaimers whenever you check the box on the terms of service or the payment agreements means there's generally no legal grounds to win against them. This of course encourages the UA-camrs and copium-addicts as justification.
@@taccntb4345 why?
The only thing I will say about this is, People requested the mega packs. People got on the forums and begged for packs that had every ship in concept and currently in release and a CIG responded with "Sure for like 30K" They put the packs up on a limited sale and sold out. Not saying I agree with this at all but SC is a monster that its community created and feeds
For 48k I'd expect to buy stock in the company
It's a private company.
@@BVDxBEAR If it's a private company and I spend 48k then I want DOUBLE stock in the company.
Ask the caulders
@@mbg4681They have investors, that they pay regularly.
@@mbg4681 48k outta 700million is like nothing bro. you're buying the ships and it's like all of them for people that run guilds with thousands of players. The average star Citizen Player has 2 ships and their account total is like under $300 that's less than an apex player getting a heirloom. Plus with how fast you earn money in game and most ships are available in game it actually makes sense to only spend as much as your comfortable with and then just play to earn other ships it'd take maybe a week to earn almost any of the most expensive ships that're available
For reference, you can get a pilot's license in the USA for 8-10k
With fuel and maintenance and storage being included, flying in a small plane costs somewhere north of $100/hr. For $10,000. You can probably learn to fly a small plane, and fly it for a year. And you'll end up touching grass in new places when you get there.
@@KevinJDildonik Yep, when I got my license it was around 150$ per flight hour with an instructor. That was 100$ for the airplane, fuel cost included, and the airport did all the maintenance. Plus the airplanes I was flying were, and likely still are, the cheapest in the area. The remaining 50$ went to the instructor. It's definitely more expensive now. Also something to keep in mind, when I said 8-10k, I meant that only for getting the license. For further flying you can expect to put in more money than that.
@@cawa794 Yeah unfortunately flight training just keeps getting more and more expensive. I'd wager the average cost is 12-18K for an ASEL PPL at this point. The checkride fee alone can be $800+.
@@largosgaming Ouch, yeah I may be a bit behind the times. I haven't flown in several years but I bet that estimate is unfortunately pretty close.
This is what shocks me about games like this. Get outside, the real world is way better and cheaper!
I legit went to university got a job, then a career for 10 years+ and i still remember the announcement trailer lol
I didn't learn about the game until the end of 2013. But the game was still very early. It just seems like awhile because this is the first AAA game we've seen development for since it's infancy. Generally we don't hear about games until they're a year out from being done and have been in development for 4ish + years.
@@ccgod It's not AAA and it's still "very early" in terms of the strides they've made in making the game playable. I played it two years ago and it's still a buggy mess with basically nothing to do. This is abysmal. The game has cool ideas but the devs clearly don't give a shit about completing the game because they're focused on making money with these fucking ships. We're going to be 90 when it finally releases. Actually, the rapture is likely to happen first.
@crowfather3838 That's because they switched gears and put more production into sq42. The playable version we play now is mostly used for testing a final build.
I went to university, it cost £27,500 for just tuition and that costs less than some of their ships. Craziness
@@gabrielcoventry4586 that costs more than any of their ships. The most expansive ship is 2.5k
The way pirate software waited for twitch ads to finish to finish the convo just gave me like infinite respect for him.
i dont really watch streams, but the first time coming across an ad on twitch was like wtf. the fact that something live gets interrupted like that is just dumb
Yeah he always pauses games/major convo's during ads, because he can see when his chat are about to get ads (They happen in batches for random groups in chat over a period of about 3-5 minutes) because he doesn't want people to feel left out because some algorithm decided they needed to be interrupted right now.
Only time he doesn't is an online game like Helldivers where you cant stop whenever you want.
Ads are no longer meant to only try and sell you a product. They're now supposed to be as inconvenient as they can, to push you onto subbing onto the no-ads service
"Hi we noticed a 48k withdraw from your checking account, can you verify"
tax man "so this 48k what's that for?"
me "farming equipment why?"
Tax man "what kind?"
me "the loot goblin kind"
Yes, it's for a starship.
“I’m investing in space”
@@deadparrot5597 In empty space
@@deadparrot5597 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The reason the $48,000 pack exists is because a long time ago, the super whales of Star Citizen told Chris Roberts at an event that they would like a pack that has every ship in game be available. CIG updates the pack every year with whatever was added during the year. This is why you can't see the pack unless you are $10,000 deep.
These packs are also really truly aimed at large orgs (the games guilds) instead of one person.
Funny how the game is still missing most of the features they advertise but the store receives regular updates. 48k store pack with a 10k entry fee is indefensible
different team what is hard to understand lol@@Jse0607
@@Jse0607 go looks at the isc, and updating a store is easier and takes way less time than updating / creating a game....
@@Jse0607It's missing the features because it's hard to make all those features and integrate them. There was a time when I saw Starfield and thought... oh, maybe Bethesda can do this as a AAA studio and show Star Citizen up, but they didn't do anything close. The closest is No Man's Sky or Elite, but neither of those games has anything close to the level of fidelity Star Citizen does in any area of the game design.
Which is fine, they aren't shooting for that.
Also, in fairness to you and others saying this, I would say Star Citizen isn't a good game as it stands. It may never be. But... it's also a ridiculously ambitious project that nobody but Chris would be crazy enough to attempt.
It's not a scam, it's an expensive feature creep mess, that may one day come together or not. The last big updates were promising towards it eventually coming together on some level, but hardly telling as to whether it would end up being any good.
The thing is, that store is how they fund this thing in very large part, and they are depending on the people who have lots of money to waste giving into that dream. I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone doing it, but if they want to do it, I have no reason to complain. It's not like the game demands it to do what you can do today or even in the future.
And it's not even a finished game. The wildest store ever, and it's not even done.
Because, unlike other games that are developed within the confines of an existing engine, they are having to develop the tech for every feature and function. If it was a major studio or AAA title they would simply release the game with a new version number after every significant development milestone. Instead they rely on crowdfunding to continue to pay their developers and artists while still granting access to the person that paid $45 for a base game package 8 years ago.
@@LMarshall73 They exceeded their goals with the crowdfunding a long time ago, and they've earned a lot through their in-game store.
This whole thing sounds like a team that lost track or motivation of creating a finished game.
It's like once the money they earned from the crowdfunding and in-game store exceeded all expectations, greed took over where creativity and passion for the project should have been.
$644 Million (and counting) should have been enough to finish their game, instead of continuously developing and milking their cash cow.
@@0That_Guy0 If all of the tech needed to finish the game had existed before now I would agree, but the core technologies are still being developed. And it's not just the limitation of coding, but hardware as well. That being said, Squadron 42 may be seen a distraction, but ultimately a lot of the tech development for Squadron 42 has been tested and proofed in Star Citizen and vice versa. The advancements being made in Star Citizen since Squadron 42 reached "feature complete" have been extraordinary. Another full scale solar system is slated to be added this year (with several more in the pipeline) and they are adding additional NPCs (including fauna) and settlements to the existing system. Soon, players will be able to begin building their own settlements on planets that will perpetually exist where an individual or a large org can create their own homestead or military base.
I would say that even some of the smaller features in the game are beyond the reach of other developers. I know almost every multiplayer game has a VOIP system, but how many others have FOIP? Star Citizen literally uses your webcam for not just head tracking, but to recreate your facial expressions and lip movement when speaking face to face with another person in game. They are even working towards elimination of the typical "magic" inventory system where an item is simply plucked from a menu and creating inventory access terminals where you can retrieve items to equip your player.
The game now, even being in alpha state with some issues and bugs, still feels more complete than other published games I've played in the past. The 3.23 patch released last week had a staggering number of improvements and core system updates and there even more advancements in the pipeline for this year. Flight models have been completely reworked and they will be adding physics based control surfaces to the ships for atmospheric flight. The reworked water to deform and spray when a ship flies over causing atmospheric disruption. I'm happy to contribute to the continued development because I see the potential of the project. I've been playing for just one year and I can honestly say this game is different than anything I have ever played before.
Even $10,000 for in game purchases is crazy, which is even crazier for a game thats not even fully released
We went from microtransactions to macrotransactions with this one
hahaha so true..... micro and 42 000 don't go together
With this one? Nah any game that charges the price of a full triple-A game is a macrotransaction. This? This is something else entirely. 40k for a single transaction? That is a teratransaction
@@chaddixon9764 "Gargantuantransactions"
To scam you mean
Not even the current micro transactions are micro, like all those are like 10$+ currently and in some games they have skins that are worth more than full games
For people that are curious: after spending 1k you get concierge, having concierge unlocks a bunch of other ship packages and after 10k or something you get access to the big 48k package that has all the ships
For people that are curious: you can buy one basic ship package and simply purchase the others by playing the game.
@@xstrange_ this. Absolutely this. For more people that are curious. The game is free pretty often so if you're on the fence please, for the love of all that is holy, try the game for free before buying it. And if you want to buy it just get the cheapest bundle you can get and earn more ships ingame
@@xstrange_ For people that are curious: SC is at its best when you invest enough money to engage the afterburners on your Sunk Cost Fallacy.
@@xstrange_For those curious: you can start any gasha game and get all broken characters without ever paying a single cent. And also get every character
Believe it also covers all future ships and expansions as well.
You pretty much bought the entire game present and future at this price.
"I beat the game with my credit card" is not something I want. Well put
How do you beat a sandbox mmo?
@@ccgod not playing it way easier mate
Good heavens, I remember Totalbiscuit talking about Star Citizen like 12 goddamn years ago when the kickstarter started.
A not fully working game and a fully working store front, the classic
game wouldn't exist at all without the store front, it's literally funding the game.
Wake up, it's a scam.
@@B3tterEv3ryDay what makes it a scam?
@@myztklk3v I think you're missing the point
@@smiluo the fact it's been in development for almost 11 years and still hasn't left alpha state, the fact that the devs have raised almost 3 quarters of a billion dollars and still haven't added nearly half the features they promised they would. Or the fact that this video points out they have a store page that sells digital content for 10s of thousands of dollars, most of which isn't accessible unless you spend at least a grand to access it. Then there is the fact that most of the stuff you buy in the store page doesn't even exist in game yet.
This is why I love Deep Rock Galactic. I never have to rush getting all the season contents, as it will always be available. And it's free content.
You can get everything through in game currency or achievements (ie, some gear you can only get by killing a boss, etc). The only time you can't buy a ship at an in game store is for a few months after that ship is released.
@@crispy9175that is not true, there are MANY ships you cannot buy in-game, and ships you cannot buy even for real money because they were "limited time sales" which is the real scam here. I've been backing the game since 2012, you cannot defend this shit so don't even try.
@@crispy9175 half those ships are still concepts.
@@sgtsnokeem1139 what?
@@sgtsnokeem1139most ships are flyable right now. They've cracked down on releasing concept ships with no release window
I was half way through my enlistment when the game was announced, I got my undergrad, and now I am wrapping up on my PhD and the game still hasn't been released yet.
Sounds like the right moment to congratulate EVE Online for being of drinking age in the US
At one point this was just part of the Kickstarter and relatively inoffensive as the necessary means of funding the project. In 2024 it's very apparent of why Gandalf refuses to touch the One Ring.
You really have to pick your battles though, either have some way to generate funds or give in to investor overlords and release half baked stuff that you can "No mans sky it".
@@dfd6787 only a quarter of the original Kickstarter came from ship sales.
@@dfd6787they said they had enough funds to finish the game many years ago. Why are they adding more ships and more features instead of finishing things that are long past their roadmap deadline? Of course they need money, but it truly seems like making money has become the main priority
Kickstarter is offensive. Invest with none of the protections and no return. It is literally a scam.
@@nielskersic328 Are you speaking from experience? Can you link me your finished MMO for me to try?
I think one of the worst parts is, that most of the ships you can get with those big packages DON'T EVEN EXIST INGAME YET. You just pay in the hope, the developer will, at some point in the Future, properly develop 3D models, animations, etc. and release it. Wtf...
This right here is the big thing not spoken enough. Its not even paying a ton of money for digital goods, its paying a ton of money for a NAME.
And by the current turnaround time, it'll take decades to make the ships they've promised. Not to mention the systems.
I've only spent $45 on Star Citizen and I have 12 ships already which include a 890 jump.
I guess its nice if you're rich and can blow 45k on anything you want, but you can also blow $45 and still get any ship you want.
@@blackmamba___ and then you lose it on the next patch because whoopsie we can't save that, but we can save it if you pay us.
Also the game just isn't fun. Ok you grinded mining for an 890, now what? The only thing to do is grind for ships to grind more
I feel I've seen this tactic most in the NFT and cryptocurrency game space, where they hype up what their game COULD be and offer NFTs for people to buy early, but release a barely working game and do almost no continued development afterwards. Some even shut down quietly after the initial hype, taking the money and disappearing without a trace.
For the seasonal stuff, I immediately thought of how Cookie Clicker tackled it. There are seasonal events, but you can later down the line with enough time just trigger the seasonal event whenever you want. How that would work in a multiplayer fashion, idk.. but its a perspective that exists.
I tried it out a few years ago. Bought the starter ship and was having a great time, bugs and all. Eventually after a few resets I got sick of working my way up the ladder each time and decided to buy a ship for around 150 (my currency). The ship was in my inventory and all that but I could never access it in the game. Went to the forums for help thinking it'd be as nice as the in game players. Got laughed at and told to come back when I've invested "real" money. Got a refund after 3 months of constantly emailing them and have only went back to play once, recently. Game was still full of the same bugs for simple things like walking. Haven't played since.
if you don't mind me asking, what ship did you buy? it may have been unreleased
@@StrongBoi765it's wild how people get mad at a game because they are just a lil stupid and don't understand what they are doing
@@LuckyAJC i don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate?
@StrongBoi765 He is calling OP stupid since he most likely bought a ship that wasn't released instead of one that was released. Also pointing out that OP gets mad at the game even though it was due to his own incompetence.
@@Cesar-gd1ke ah ok now i get it, thanks!
What is that line from _Margin Call_ ? “We are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price”
basis of economics: supply and demand.
which is a nice way of saying "whatever that sucker is willing to pay for this, that's what it's worth."
Exactly. No factor that 89% of ships on the sale page are in game which anyone can just EARN via in game economy which currently I will admit is a joke. IE...you can pretty much buy any ship after about 3-4 weeks of play due to the lack of proper money sinks and known game play exploits to make lots of money.
He didn't even dive into the CCU game loop. The only game loop fully fleshed by CIG.
Yeah they make excel datasheets for shaving 5 USD of a ship via cross chassis upgrades lmao. Its crazy.
@@therinwhitten big savings lol 😂
Oof lol “only game loop fully fleshed out by CIG” if I were drinking it would be all over the wall there good sir. Also all but my Javelin and F8C are full ccu’d saved me thousands to date playing that game loop
Bounty hunting, mining, and now salvage have loops, and cargo. Once we get crafting material demand it will get real interesting.
@@zyloctalThey said fully fleshed out, beam citizen
Dude I remember looking at this and Elite: Dangerous like 8 years ago..went with Elite, played the hell out of it, it's evolved hugely as a game..and SC still isn't released. Very nearly a full decade now.
You can play SC and it's far superior to ED already. Even though there is only one star system yet.
I've put a lot of hours in elite and it doesn't compare to star citizen at all
ED is already dying and by all accounts a vastly inferior game. I love how people compare games that cut corners so release early and claim it's better than a game taking it's time.
Neither has gta6 and they have more money invested in the game
Having played both, technically Star Citizen is far superior but their actual development feels stagnated compared to the money going in for the recent years
ED is smoke and mirrors, fun until you feel it
I'm reminded on how some seasonal events are handled in certain games. Rabi Ribi comes to mind since you do need to buy the dlc and its not like its available to you immediately after you buy it. It gets added to a certain part of the map and you just need to go there to start it. You don't have to go and do it and its not part of the achievement progression, but it's there if you ever want to go do it and its just cool how its part of the world rather then a selection from the start screen.
These huge money ship packs are a thing because the backers asked for them.
I know several people who purchase these packs and met them in real-life they're retired 50-70 so.ething year olds with kids out of the house, these people have a HUGE passion for Sci-Fi and stupid retirement money. They had asked to be able to spend more money on the game and to make it easier and the developers listened.
A couple of the old dudes I know have got TWO of the $45,000 packs and they chuckle about it.
It's not as bad as it's made out to be, as bad as CIG can be with optics this is definitely not a "on them" situation ad much as it's an evolution of the project
Yup I was one of those people asking for them, because I wanted to support the project financially.
@@hitmanstallion2697 What's got me , is in the current state of economy, who has that much money to toss out? My parents are retired, and in their lates 60's , they are working part time to keep up on things. Who has 45 grand to throw out, and plays video games?
@jaykay5838 The dudes I know have more money to throw at things than they know what to do with they don't have many hobbies besides a love for Sci-Fi and video games. I've sat with these people at tables and talked with them. It's a completely different world than what you and I know.
People have every right to act stupidly
I like the "anti-FOMO" approach Ghost Ship Games took with Deep Rock Galactic - any seasonal cosmetics from an event that has passed are added to the random cosmetic loot pool. This has interesting effects on player mentality: I do feel intrigued and motivated to get the current seasonal cosmetics sometimes, but I don't feel pressured into getting them, knowing that I would be able to get them anyway provided I spent a large enough amount of time playing the game.
The cosmetics you can buy for real money are mostly worth their price, but don't necessarily look better than the ones gained by effort put into the game.
Another cool thing I just really love about... this studio I guess? is the fact that they decided to do seasons just like many modern games do ... except these are free ... and are actually fun to complete.
I feel all these things do the exact opposite of what you describe with Star Citizen - I feel welcomed and cared for playing Deep Rock, I don't know if that makes sense but the feeling is close to the feeling of "home" - a place where I can relax, let my guard down and just have fun.
average Ghost Ship Games W
Plus - they also announced that they bring the old battlepasses with season 5 - so even less FOMO because now it's not in the rng pool anymore - you can work on them as they were when they dropped.
By the way - if the fomo shit would go or other practice then i#d be more willing to spent money on them.
ROCK AND STONE
Is that loot behind irl money boxes? If yes then they have gambling in it
@@madeingermany9445
Only thing behind a paywall are support pack exclusive cosmetics, that will never disappear. are mostly all about 8$ usd, for cosmetics for all classes and their weapons, and are a drop in the bucket of cool shit and cosmetics.
everything else has not a single cent to increase chances of have chances of acquiring, simply playtime.
Not a damn sniff of gambling, the free loot is simply randomized.
Just a few points (some of which were likely pointed out by others).
First and foremost, the developer has a vision for the game and will not consider it "complete" until that vision is realized. unlike other developers and studios that build their games within the constraints of an existing engine, CIG is building the engine as they go. I've only been playing for a year, but the features and functionality that has been added in that timeframe has been impressive. What is nice about Star Citizen is it simply pushes out tech advancements as patches, so even if you bought a base game package 5 years ago you will have access to the full game upon release. Aside from a game package, you don't have to buy anything from the store unless you want to.
Second, compare the patches/wipes to the practices of larger game studios and AAA titles that would push out minor changes as a new release (Call of Duty, Battlefield, Forza Motorsport, all of the EA sports titles, etc). You have to rebuy the same content over and over with marginal improvements and in some cases fewer features. Using Forza as an example, a car that you loved to drive or a track you loved to drive on that was base content in one version may be paid DLC in the next.
Third, I look at the store in Star Citizen the same way I look at the store in iRacing or DCS. If there is a gameplay loop I want to try (or series I want to race in or plane I want to fly), I can simply buy the content I want. Unlike iRacing and DCS, if I get tired of a ship in Star Citizen, I can "melt" it for the full price I paid and buy something else to try. Additionally, nearly every ship that is currently flyable can be purchased with in-game currency. The only risk there is whether or not the ship makes it from one wipe to the next.
And finally, there is no pay to win since there is no true endgame. It is intended to be a perpetual MMO with multiple solar systems to explore and settle. A lot of the ships are multi-crew, so even if an individual drops $750 on a Corvette like the Polaris or a gunship like the Hammerhead, you still need a crew of 8-10 people to run it efficiently. Even some of the smaller ships are underutilized unless you have at least one other person willing to work with you. That is why a number of the capital ships are purchased by orgs. They will have the manpower to crew those ships. Additionally, if you do choose to purchase a concept vehicle (still in development and not available in game) you will receive a loaner ship (or ships) that will typically give you more than your money's worth in the meantime.
possible to look at their site map to find it or is that in game?
The in-game store allows you to buy these same ships for in-game money.
That's how I feel about ALL microtransactions and the like.
objectively correct take
@@rhael42 I just don't buy games that have schemes like that. I can't justify it one bit.
48k is more than twice what I make in an entire year... And people are blowing that on fucking Star Citizen...
I guess they make more than you
Skill issue, get a real job
Sorry you have an issue with people spending money, get a grip.
yeah.... we have issues w/ stupid people paying stupid nothingness, and it makes me embarrassed that these cretins are just the same species as i do.
48k is almost 1/3rd of what I make a year and I wouldn't pay for that lol.
Love my Cutty Black though
That portal thing for events makes it feel like an adventure instead.
Thor you keep talking those sweet sweet suculant words in my ears. The more i learn how you handle making games and the business side of it. The more i wish your studio grows. You are what game davs should be. I am now seriously looking into heart bound. I have been looking for a fun game that isnt going to nickle and dime me to no end. I think your game fits that bill and from hearing you talk about it and how you have been building it. I think i may like it. Secrets, story, exploration, and puzzles sounds like my kind of game. Keep up the great work and thank you for being an amazing human being.
From someone who was inside the cult at the beginning, that kind of money doesn't get spent all at once. It insidiously builds over time as you swap, upgrade, and get more to accomodate your sense of spaceship collecting. It's evil in its dopamine-releasing design. You never really play a gameplay loop; shoot some things, walk around your ship, deliver something. It's never enough so you sit with your imagination until you're curious enough to buy another ship and try it to feel some kind of reward. They had this money plan in place long time. It was always the true goal.
Happy to be out of the cult. At least I found my wife there and we both escaped with a lot less financial damage than many others, thank god.
Sounds like a terrible cult. You had fun (hence the dopamine release), and you met your wife. Sounds downright evil.
At least you got your special someone thanks to the game. Game communities tend to do that a lot.
Bring together people who were meant for each other.
Or just 2 people who really get along.
Thank you. From this day onwards I shall stop keeping up-to-date with this game because it's getting tiring. So now I can instead remember it as maybe something good - someone got married through the hellscape that is Star Citizen. Congrats :D
Well to start you can literally resell your ships. Plenty of market websites that do that. Depending on what you have you can probably make more money than you spent. You can also buy any ship with in game currency. Plenty of people flying around in a Carrack that only spent 40$ of real money too. There are tons of opportunities to make millions of AUEC in game. They also have a 30 day money back policy.
It kind of sounds like you didn't get very far past the beginner experience to me. With the whole sometimes shoot something sometimes deliver something bit. But, you know I guess maybe you didn't know that you can get money back or even more or that you can easily buy every ship in game. Or maybe that just doesn't fit the whole "scary cult my wife and I escaped from" narrative. I don't know many other sim games that let you sell modules
@@guessworkyou sound exactly like an NFT bro with this response
I paid $45 in 2016. Since then I’ve had so many fun, sometimes jaw dropping experiences with my friends. Admittedly I only play for a few days around every major update but it has been more than worth that $45.
That's what I don't understand... CIG made it clear from day 1 that every ship will be earnable in game without any additional money required. The point of the ship packages is funding so they don't have to rely on publishers/investors that would limit their creative freedom which is like, 70% of what is wrong with modern gaming. You can literally spend 45 bucks right now and have an extremely similar experience to someone who paid 10k.
@@shortwave737 you don't have similar experience, i for sure don't. I do have money for big purchases and every time i try to play i think to myself... why im suffering in this ship that can't do anything when i can just buy any of the ships and it instantly kills my motivation to play
@@nilin-o2you can rent(cheap) or buy the ships in the game for in-game currency
@@brushboss99 and? that has nothing to do with my comment
@@nilin-o2 The current state of the game, the primary play is, "do activities for money, use that money for better gear/ships to do other activities or more advanced versions of the activities you're already doing" doing hand mining or light combat missions or renting a mining ship will get you enough to buy an entry level ship for most activities within 4-6 hours depending on your luck.
While sure, you can spend real money to buy a ship to do that other activity or that more advanced activity immediately, there's not really any reason to unless you just want to support the development of the game. If you don't like your current ship that you bought with your game package, melt it and buy a different one with the store credit. If you do like it but grinding up your cash isn't fun for you in the current state of the game then that sucks and I hope one of the quarterly updates adds something that you do enjoy.
I think the feeling of disgust comes from the idea that if someone is charging that kind of price-tag, it MUST be providing some sort of advantage. The larger the price tag, the larger the advantage, so to those not in the game, it feels, as he says, "gross", because it feels like you're going to be getting into something where you'll be nothing but fodder for whales.
Even if none of this is actually true.. even if that 48k gives nothing that couldn't be earned in a very short time, just seeing it there creates that feeling, and there's no way you'll be able to dispel that feeling from someone who isn't already in the game.
part of what makes it feel gross to me is also the thought of "thats a life changing amount of money, there is a real and true possibility that someone ruined/disrupted their life in a major way to buy this package". i know someone who is really into big space games and who has suggested star citizen to me before, and i know that guy would buy those packages even tho it would ruin him financially, the guy has no sense about spending too much money on videogames. and when i see shit like a 1k+ package to buy in a game, it always feels like it preys on people like him to some degree, and thats repulsive.
what further makes it feel gross is that these packages arent available for everyone to buy, but are hidden behind a paywall. thats the part that feels most predatory now that i think about it. because if its just about spending money to support the game, just have it be on the store page available for everyone to see. but the fact that its actively hidden behind a paywall seems like some sort of filter to me. that 1k paywall filters out a lot of people with either not the necessary disposable income or enough sense to not spend life changing amounts of money on a game. making such packages only available to people whom you have previously comfirmed are willing and able to spend ridiculous amounts of money on games feels like manipulation/exploitation of those potentially vulnerable players.
@@philip8498 The large pledges where hidden because seeing a 2k price tag was scaring off newcomers. This was a suggestion by backers to do that not the company. Large packs allow big spenders to consolidate their packs as well. Say you spent 10k you're not spending 15k to upgrade to the next pack you're spending 5k.
People spend 50k on dinner dude it's just how the world is.
just for a itty bitty bit of context, the concierge and chairman stores don't offer you any different ships to what you could buy during any of the major events (which is when all the ships are available during different days of the event) in the regular store, they are simply bundles of ships that do offer a discount compared to buying them separately, that being said I do still agree that it feels sort of predatory
You'd think after 10 years and $600 million they'd have the most amazing video game on the market...
Bare in mind Chris Roberts hasn't released a product since the 90's.
@@sgtsnokeem1139 Sine the 90's what?
@@savagefrito you comprehend words I assume?
@sgtsnokeem1139 you made the " 90's "a possessive with that apostrophe... if you mean the 1990s or the '90s... the apostrophe goes in front making it a contraction. Long story short... it's just 90s... or 80s or 50s... not 90's or 80' etc.
@@savagefrito uh huh.
That alters my statement how?
Because CR still hasn't released a product since the 1990's... happy?
The statements of voluntary from the people who exploited does not nullify the greed of the exploiters
Is so fucking idiotic indeed, the game devs thinking adding this shit in a game that isn't ready yet, and still runs like ass alpha game.
The mega backers literally asked for this. It was not a thing until they said "hey Chris, can you make a giant package with all the ships?". Y'all just want to hate on the game so much calling everything predatory. Star citizen makes it clear up front what you're getting when u pledge money. If you think u got exploited, you're just an idiot
Are you going to stop someone buying your product?
If that pack was not there they would just individually buy each ship.
I dont blame the company for selling something some people want to waste money on.
Its their responsibility to spend money wisely.
Greed in of itself is not a crime. Not unless you'd like to set up a Theocracy.
Most idiotic statement. You imply that CIG is exploiting. They are just offering a product. Last I checked, they didn't put a gun to your head and say, "You must purchase this".
I spent like $200 in overwatch back when the game was still alive and I felt bad afterwards for spending that much.
Can’t imagine spending so much on a game.
I fully understand the games continuing to charge for DLC to keep the game fresh as long as that's what's actually happening... what is disappointing to me is I've noticed a bad trend of games, even big name games, being released prematurely and the company using DLC and patches to essentially finish the game . I wish it was somehow both, I remember before any ability to update a game on console and the games were so much more finished(comparatively speaking) than today's model of sales...
Which is exactly what this game didn't do. It's launching when it's ready.
On a side note: policy needs to catch up with the practices going on in the gaming industry, but our government is filled with severely out of touch old people who can barely operate a cellphone with any efficiency. So it continues to get worse as corporations literally hire psychologists to help make their store/microtransactions as predatory and addictive as possible.
Beyond the basic "you don't need anything more than a starter ship" argument, there's another one that people don't mention as often, and that is the fact that no one actually believes they need all the ships in the game. Not only can you fly a single ship, but you can't get much use out of multi-crew ships without other people (most of them) or an org for the bigger ones. So yeah, I don't think I know any backer who sees ship purchases as anything else than an investment in the game's development. It's a thing they do if they are happy with the game's state and roadmap. If what you you want is a ship, it's really fast to get in-game. Even the most expensive ones are in-game currency, you can just rent them and use them to make more in-game money than you spent on the rental.
And yeah, someone mentioned, but the big packs are things that backers asked for. The 2952 warbond bundle translates to the 2022 pack including all the ships released (a bit over 150) and to be released (a bit less than 100), essentially. That was done because some maniacs were literally buying everything under the sun and wanted a way to more quickly do it. The price tag increased between versions simply because it's a sum of everything as they were priced in the first place.
You don't need every ship in the game. You also don't need every ship in the game in Elite Dangerous. However, i still bought every ship in the game in ED, because i could. And in NMS i got at least one of every type of ship in the game. And when i played X2 many years ago, i had at least 1 of every ship in the game. With SC, people will be the same. The only question is, how many will pay $$$ for ships and how many will earn them in game. For many, its just pokemon, with a credit card.
that is not actually true not fully at least while this is currently the case CIG has promised in the past that we can hire NPCs for the ship or use limited AI for it
@@HDSpiele That's in everyone's toolkit, and while it does help, it doesn't replace most roles on these big ships. You could have an AI in turrets, but not an engineer ready to repair and replace components or redirect the energy through safe nodes while preparing backup routes, nor a copilot to manage energy distribution and overclock, nor any NPC with actual fighting chances in case of hostile boarding, nor someone at radars. Even talking salvage and mining, no one to do the work of emptying the temporary storage and stacking the containers, no one to mine on a secondary mining head, no one to place consummables on rocks to simplify mining. If we're talking in finished features, there are way too many gameplays that are not covered by AI plans to ignore.
You can get those in game "easily" for now, as soon as they have an economy in place I can guarantee you, for 1 million aUEC you going to playing for months, it`s going to be really grindy, the idea is that you would be part of a bigger ship crew and get paid slowly per mission until you can afford your own ship and start running your own missions.
@@shippy1001 are you serious? I can run bunker missions in a rinki dink pisces with no guns no problem if the AI was actually at the best it could be it would become more difficult Shure but than you could also have grenades which would make the whole thing easier again. The reason why i use the pisces specifically and not any other ship for this example because for the raid on orison mission it is 100 percent perfect as it is small enough to land anywhere while also being able to carry a 2SCU create if i would start all over again i would not hire on a second i would just run solo mercenary as they pay pretty well. you could ofc use the aurora but than you could only get so many weapons per mission.
Some sell crap upfront, some sell crap through DLC or deluxe edition games. All want money, they run a business. Just a matter of how much scum they are about it :). The hidden store doesn't get me. What ticks me off is that they choose to make ship sales limit and not available all the time to create scarcity where none exists.
When you go to a car dealer, is every car model variation there ready to be bought?
It works in game the same. If your 1k ship gets blown up, you can expect to wait a week to get it back. They don't sell ships all the time to keep people from spending money they don't have on them. This way people can save and set money aside for the ship they want.
I love SC and I am fully invested in the project, but he said something that is absolutely right. "They turned kickstarter into a full business model".
I remember at one point Devs happily showed off the player having the ability to paint ships however you wanted in a future patch. It went silent on the feature, then later they release crappy skins for $5 a ship in the store and the now the ability to paint your ship will not be added. They are letting greed get in the way of making a good game and it’s this that makes me wary.
I believe they’ll complete the game, I’m just not sure we’ll like what the finished product is.
@@Starach I think they're going to make a great game...that REALLY monetizes the crap out of cosmetics...that wil come out in 15 years
@@Starach nah man you lost if you still waiting a decade later, it's really sad that y'all still with hope keep believing but ok
yep, this is gonna put ppl in jail for a long time before its over.... coffeezilla needs to get on it.... there are gonna be documentaries.... some of you are gonna be on t.v. crying about how much you had invested lol... part of me hopes im wrong.... but ill put a 48 thousand dollar bet on it for sure.... the odds are staggeringly in my favor....
They've been a profitable company for a long time now, despite not having a finished product to sell
They're in the business of continuing to sell a dream
42.000$ is not Micro to me
New gaming level = includes mega-transactions. Good Lord Above 🤣😂
In the past, $45,000 was basically a mortgage.
Jeff Bezos make 8 millions dollar per hours since his birth. If you are paid the US federal minimum wage, 42 000$ is to Bezos what is 3 cents for a minimum wage worker.
Jeff Bezos make 8 millions dollar per hours since his birth. If you are paid the US federal minimum wage, 42 000$ is to Bezos what is 3 cents for a minimum wage worker.
What was the name of his game that he said they are working on when he touched on the anti fomo random seasonal bit ?
You can also check the FOMO free season pass system that Guild Wars 2 established in 2023, with the Wizard's Vault, that predates the release of Helldivers 2.
Lol, I paid 45 for SC and 20 for Squadron 42..the only thing that bothers me is the price of skins..because ultimately it kills creativity>
Whales be whales
Lol that'll be 10k in inflation dollars when the games finally come out
@@roslolian11 Of course we get the typical "it's never coming out" lol.
@@MythionVR it's typical because the Kickstarter happened in 2013. If it came out a year ago it would still be too late.
@@roslolian11 You know there are plenty of games that have taken just as long to develop, with existing tech, right?
You can't be this narrow minded, seriously.
@@MythionVR You know those companies didn't take customer money for over a decade and charge 48k USD for PNG's right? CGI makes EA look like the most customer friendly company ever.
It's crazy to me the amount of cope SC fanbois have. Like why would a company developing their game on their own dime and a company who made a Kickstarter have different standards? Ever thought of that????
I payed $45 bucks in 2016, it got me both Squadron 42 (when it finally releases) and SC (the MMO). Havent spent a dime since then and i always advocate to friends for the same. These ship packs or individual ships themselves is dumb as you can earn them in game and as Thor mentions, winning with your credit card is pointless, it proves nothing. That being said, for my 45 bucks, ive gotten hundreds of hours of game time and its been fun. But outside of the intial cost of getting the game, I wont ever spend anything extra.
Same. $35 in 2013 for a starter Aurora Star Citizen and Squadron 42. Later I upgraded to an Avenger Titan for $10. I have played hundreds of hours and consider it money well spent.
I hate the term "winning with your credit card" is it really winning to drag your self every day to a job you hate to make money? Id rather sit home and play all day. There is a major imbalance of game effor vs real life effort and what its worth $ vs game progression. Games like diablo immortal do this to the extreme and are utterly distasteful. But if a game can balance the too, there shouldn't be a problem as long as either side wont have to play catchup with each other to be on par and have fun.
You are not winning anything with your credit cards if you buy those large packs. It gave you no advantages except owning ships that will not be wiped when there are a system wipe and be the first to fly a new ship when it becomes available. It just a way of people to backs for the game development and get something in returns.
This is the way
Recently got into SC along with a friend. I dont regret it. But the community sure has a toxic side to it that makes my experience kinda bitter... I left a guild along with a friend cuz we wanted to enjoy it for ourselves. In the process the org made up lies and put us on a KOS list internally and threatened with other orgs. Said org also had people defending these ship packs... White knight syndrome basically... I think it was called GIRM
as an almost 10k backer : it works like this : once you spent 1k you get acess to the concierge offers - but you can return the items you already purchased and use them as a store currency ( think disney dollar ) - so if you wanted to buy a ship for 2k bc its better than the one you bought for one you only have to spend 2k in total to get the ship you want
Though i only spent 60€ as a fresh "adult" in 2012, good ol' Chris gave me a lesson in trust, excitement and investment. I have not forgotten it.
From a logical point of view this business model to acquire funding makes sense, there are 2 types of people that play Star Citizen. One wants to fund the project because they believe in the vision, the other just wants to buy (pledge) a starter ship and have fun in this game. I like many others have only ever bought the starter ship and have gotten great value and enjoyment from it. I have never felt compelled or had fomo with anything in this game. I understand how groundbreaking the vision that CGI has and if someone wants to contribute to this, then its their decision.
i fully agree
My old GM at a car lot was a huge player of this game and he spent big bread. He tells me there is a market within the game these people buy like its nothing, just for the sake of feeling like captain kirk.
It’s wild that this game does all this but a gatcha game (dragon ball Dokkan battle) has portals for every event that’s happened in the past so all characters can be upgraded.
There’s also endless free premium currency so summons can be done easily.
It’s one of the very few gatcha games that has done a great job with the model
This game sells every ship at least 2 times a year. There's no fomo you just have to wait.
@@ccgod Dokkan always brings characters back relatively fast so fomo is definitely not as bad
@@Bak3dGamingYT yeah but most fomo means u miss out forever like you can't go back and get diablo 4 season 1 items. And that's true for probably 99% of games that have seasons. The only fear with this is not hitting the refresh button quick enough to get one before it sells out. And generally only the capital ships that are $1000+ have limits.
Hi. I’ve spent $70 over 10 years. For that I can play it, earn those ships ‘worth’ thousands. & I’ve had prob tens of thousands of hours of entertainment. I’m grateful to those crowd funders who gave more, but it obviously isn’t at all necessary just to own it like a game, play it, have it in the future, and follow all the development. That can be done very cheaply. My wife can hardly moan at $6/year or so since 2013.
yeah but your story does not create a good clickbait title. I have spent around 400 dollars since 2016 , which is like spending 50 bucks per year. Totally reasonable for the amount of hours. people have spent a fortune on wow subscription like it's nothing
I don't think "necessity" is the issue here my dude.
Avenger gang? The high tier packages are insane, but lets be honest, there is already way more to do than there will ever be in Starfield, a "AAA" release, and it's still alpha. I melted my space penguino for a cutlass on a ship sale, and am at a grand total of $100 since 2014
Meanwhile the average backer has spent over $300, so just MAYBE the worry isn't about the ones that can control their spending, but the ones who are preyed upon by predatory marketing?
What a dick comment.What about those who fall for this crap?
They do fear of missing out sales a lot to.
yeah they do .. only to make everything available to buy again on a regular schedule every year .. so if you fomo then you do that to yourself^^
@@Maverrick2140 yeah, really no point in paying more that $40 for a starter pack and buying other ships in game.
@@Tuttomenui ask pretty much everyone who plays on SC Alpha, they will repeat exactly the same line. The game is fleshed out enough for you to get most of the ships ingame without an issue. Especially if you join org and play together. There is no need to spend more than starter package.
@@dfd6787 Shouldn't have to join an org to get everything, nor should I have to do it every patch, if I grind for something, I expect it to be mine permanently.
Thor's idea of making past events randomly appear in game, was kinda an idea i also came up and gave to a gacha game on their surveys, because many new players miss out on fun past event or players that didn't have time to participate on them because of IRL stuff.
Don't know how much that would cost, but it would be nice also being able to revisit past content.
no one can make a reasonable argument for buying 1 thing in a game for 48k.
it funds the creation of the most ambitious, ground breaking, tech advancing, megalithic game ever made. If you have the money to waste and want to push gaming further this is the place to do it. People who have that kind of money waste it on the dumbest shit that would blow your mind. At least here it's pushing the world of gaming forward. Once star citizen launches its going to take the world by storm and every other publisher is going to be trying to buy their engine to make their "super game".
@@LaughterIsDeadly if i had 48k to burn, first of all i'd sit on it for a while because that's a ton of disposable income.
after that, i'd probably travel or dip my toes in a bunch of hobbies without worrying about the cost because i at least tried those things i previously felt barred from. i can't justify dropping that much on any game, especially not one that already secured hundreds of millions in funding before i came along (and struggles to be functional 10 years on)
i will admit it would be nice to be wrong and for SC to somehow become a super game, sustain some kind of interstellar (or is it intergalactic? i'm actually unsure) world where you can basically rp as star citizens but then i look at where it is right now and feel a bit hopeless for the next 5 years.
i've been playing for about 3 myself and... yeah. only bought a starter ship, i don't believe in buying anything more and the subreddit is one big wealth display which is a concept that bothers me wherever i see it.
it is downright not fun without someone to talk to and by that point it's a glorified-shared-visual to talk over and fill up the dead air when conversation lulls. i truly do wish it was better and made it to even half of what fans prop it up as (which is inconsistent: "it's an alpha", "it's playable", "it's not a complete game")
i don't know, it's tiring. i'm well aware it's not for me and right now is basically a curse i make myself shoulder, but i can still have an opinion on it. it was laggy and painful when i started and now the inventory looks a little nicer, they put persistence in for some reason (makes all the pads a pain now, i remember when ships could be called to a pad, lol)
just... pain, lol
edit: oh yeah and "you can earn any ship though!!! it's fair that way!". it's certainly not fun lmao. not after the fifth wipe and all your money and gear is gone (but the pledgers have their stuff preserved, cool). not when you're grinding out the same loop that never varies for the 1000th hour
it was a golden age when i could haul stuff like SLAM, the absolute goldmine when i saw big crates of Maze. i don't care that it was "the easy way", it was the *fun* way and they nerfed my Scarface moment. i wish i could still do that consistently and enjoy it my way, that's what people keep saying the game is, "make your own fun". now i'd be lucky to find 6 SCUs of Neon, what's even the point of scavenging that?
@@LaughterIsDeadly oh boy my friend you sound like the propaganda has really worked on you, I wish you luck on getting better
@@Riccardo_can I wish you had a real argument instead of a cheeky reply trying to attach a negative buzzword. What do you know about persistent entity streaming and server meshing? What other game has even come close to developing tech like this? I'm guessing you're going to have to google a lot to understand the scope and achievements this game has already accomplished. The engine they have built far surpasses the capabilities of any engine on the market. Publishers will be paying through the nose to get access to this in the coming years or their games will look like DOS games next to modern Windows games.
@@LaughterIsDeadly I love how many assumptions you had to make about me for half of your response to make sense, is that what a real argument looks like to you? :D Anyway I'm not on the internet for arguments (which is why this is getting muted now), just wishing you luck; I believe one day you'll be older and look back at this version of you with a little embarrassment and I wanna let you know that's okay, it happens.
I think the justification for this is that it's a mechanism for people to fund the video game. Like you said, a Kickstarter that never ends.
That means they don't see it as a purchase, but rather a gift with donation. They choose to continue donating because they believe in the long-term goal of the project and know that it is entirely funded by the fans. Some of their marketing practices are pretty scummy (limited time events to inspire fomo sales), but I leave it up to each individual how they feel about the core concept.
I’d much rather this, than if star citizen was being published by a company like EA for all of its funding. Games these days have been releasing in completely shit states. Look at skull and bones. 500 m dollars, and it’s worse than assassins creed black flag.
also remember the "buy ships with real money" will be gone on game release, you'll only be able to buy the "starter" ships, maybe up to a cutlass. earn the rest ingame and no roundabout way for it
@@Drew-ck4gh Humanity will achieve interstellar travel in real life before this game is released. Star Citizen will never be released because it is far to profitable as it is. There is no chance in hell that these devs will give up this insane money printing machine by actually finishing the game and removing the ability for whales to pay them 50 grand for pixels.
@@Xaxxus Star Citizen will be running decade old tech and it's already cost 650 Million Dollars.
@@Xaxxus I mean, EA has enough sense to not do stupid projects like this. We're going to be looking at over a billion dollars in this project in the next coming years, and I can assure, there won't be a working game for the next 20 years. I was interested in the game at first, and then they started adding on features on to features on to features... It became a never ending list of features.
As someone who plays sc because one of my friends bought me a pack, the store really sours the expierience for me.
Outside of the multiplayer this is why I like starfield it checked all the other boxes at literally a fraction of the price
There's a 48 000 $ pack...
The ppl who play the game asked for it to support the game it wasn’t cig idea
Some guys are rich and want every ship in game, even every variant of that ship. And some that have already bought a lot of ships in game and want to change those ships to one of those packages.
@@UltimaKeyMaster it's a lose lose, but when it comes to who to listen to, your players should be above non-players.
@@UltimaKeyMaster You're just misinformed, because it's not money for content, it's a donation to a project. People asked for it, they delivered, the ships or content are irrelevant to the whole thing because it's not you buying something as you simply CANNOT own digital goods. It's the same thing as donating 48k to the cancer fondation and they send you a pen and a bunch of christmas cards as a thank you, except you're donating to CIG and they let you use ships in the game instead.
@@UltimaKeyMaster sorry buddy, with that statement, please stay away from managing anything
When items in your game store could be entered in your IRS you can't call it "microtransaction" anymore.
For those wondering this page is not for individuals. It’s for orgs these packs are for a large group of players to buy sell and trade ships between the org for only the org to use once personal hangars are implemented. This page is not for individuals looking to spend for themselves. It’s for streamers with communities they are trying to start an industry in the game is. Not saying it’s a good thing at all just saying it’s not directed to poach money from people’s pocket unless they already have bad spending habits
i feel like the only reason I don't have a problem with this stuff is the fact that you can get the items in-game with a decent grind. I only spent 50 dollars on the cutter when it was on a small sale, and I enjoy the game, but I could never imagine spending anything over 100 on a single game.
I got the game for free with my AMD RX 280x back then. I tried it a month ago. The game feels slugish, constant freezes and crashes. It's in alpha tho, but it has been for years. For me the game is vaporware right now. When it comes out, and it's good, then I am going to change my opinion. I’ve seen too many people getting burned by these types of projects.
They just did a test of 800 player servers that can seamlessly travel 2 entire solar systems.
"Vaporware"
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC 2 of 100 announced systems... and it ONLY took 12 years... its big vaporware.
@@vampuricknight1 PHfff... "Starfield" took nearly Ten years and how are their 'brilliant' star systems.. and they already had the software in which to build their game developed. Star Citizen is re-writing the software thta is needed to make a game this large, and in doing so, having to literally make the tools that the developers can use to create. Now they are starting to show off their 'server meshing' that is a ground breaking technology that has never been developed before....but oh wow.. ti took more than 10 years.
@@Ravage2734b Look how bad this other thing is, therefore this vaporware game isn't so bad.
Copium bro.
@@vampuricknight1 You completely invalidated your opinion there. They were simply showing examples for other games that took a long time to develop in order to help illustrate why Star Citizen has taken so long and you didn't acknowledge that in any way nor did you acknowledge their points. Instead you just went for mockery. Was their tone great? Not really, but yours wasn't either. Big games take a while, big games that are making their own game engine take a while, big games that are taking technology to their limits take a while. Star Citizen isn't perfect, but vaporware is hardly it.
There is a reason those massive packs exist. Back in the day people complained that they had too big of a list so CIG gave them the option to melt the ships for store credit and basically get the same thing in one clean pack. Also people who had more money then they knew what to do with complained that they wanted to donate more and basically challenged CIG for bigger packs. When you start a company with a team of 5-10 people why not get all the funding you can to make your dream game.
And they made a garbage game with, massive desync, extreme lag, terrible performance, non-functional ai, 5% of stretch goals complete and they are 700% funded 12 years into development, massive pay to win, 2 of 110 Star Systems almost complete. Someone should buy Thor a 45$ pack and gift it to him, would be hilarious to hear a game dev absolutely rip the garbage CIG has on offer apart lol.
@@internet_tough_guy_ and starfield, no mans sky and cyberpunk had perfect releases after their developments
@@metalofevil Unironic whataboutism.
>> There is a reason those massive packs exist.
Yes. Same reason Roberts defrauded the German government of millions of dollars through Ascendant Pictures.
All this bundling just showed how massive this scam actually is.
The fact that it should never have reached such a sum is what the problem is here.
...and yes, there will always be people who have money left but you shouldn't make a game around those people. Or if you do, just say so openly.
Everybody knows that this is p2w if you assume that this game will be out as planned at all.
Yes I know that you can theoretically earn that money in game in the final concept but if you've ever played a single MMORPG similar to what they plan, the head start matters and this is a massive head start.
It will be a game for whales if it's finished, and the reason they don't say it upfront is that people may realize that it's no fun being surrounded by people with bigger guns.
Years and years ago they used to offer what they called $0 cross-chassis upgrades. It was a way to switch one owned ship to another of equal value. They didn't really place any limits on accruing these so I bought several dozen of every possible $0 CCU.
Anyway, over time, the prices of ships changed. I still had my starter ship and that was basically it. But as prices changed and were adjusted, eventually some things that were of equivalent value in their store no longer were. But they still would allow me to use those CCU's if I felt so inclined.
Anyway, that's the story of how I wound up paying like $30 for a ship package that, at the time of upgrading to it, cost $600.
I like to think that means I've won the current Star Citizen meta.
edit: also when I say "bought", I didn't actually pay anything for them since they were free. What I mean is that I added them to my cart and checked out and didn't have to pay anything.
i have a 30€ ship and i like to hop in the game every once in a while, see whats up, chill in space. its a very beautiful and immersive unfinished game. but even in its unfinished state, walking to the train station, going to the hangars, taking the elevator, opening the ships door, walking to the cockpit, firing up the engines, requesting for take off, flying out of the planets atmosphere, and go to any other planet, moon or space station in the star system all without loadings and in a mmo type game is insane.
Yeah. I bought a started package and literally played it 8 hours a day. This game is inspiring. Even with all it's bugs I've never had a feeling like when I played this game.
I just went to the RSI pledge store and it doesn't look like that, however the most expensive thing I could find on there was only $1100. I've only spend $50 and I have three permanent (pledge, bought one given two through promotions)vehicles and have spent the past year having fun. Getting a millions in game credits for other vehicles that stay until wipes only takes a couple hours.
At $1k, 5k, and 10k spend you gain access to additional packs and pledges. Like ships including all their skins at discount and such.
A couple hours. Lmao. Yeah, thanks to an exploit
@@GrimdarkogNope. Just either do the "Money for nothing" mission or the other one with the salvage of wrecked ships worth millions. All you need to do is collect that stuff and sell it.
@@Billy-bc8pk yeah. That's an exploit. You think that's working as intended? It's not. Confirmed by the devs. You must be new.
@@Grimdarkogif it's bothering you that much you can just keep trading, or do ERT takes a bit longer but after a few days you'll have any ship you want
7:02 - 7:18 CIG pretty much said the same recently, moving forward they want to focus more on combining existing and in development features to content/gameplay experience. Of course it remains to been seen how long that will take.
About "In Stock", every page has this label which is pretty much obsolete except for like 10ish ships or so that are only sold in limited quantities for a short period, ~2-4 times per year. And yes they are all digital goods and have no physical items attached. Every time these ships sales happen they get bought in seconds just to be sold afterwards on the "grey market".
But the thing is which I believe is nowhere to be seen on the storefront is that all players will be able to get all ships, except for a very few exceptions (Sabre Raven - INTEL SSD bundle, Mustang Omega - AMD GPU bundle, event based ship paints) in game, it is not like WOW where the only way to get a specific mount/transmog/pet whatever from the in-game store. And another IMO very important issue with ships over 1000 USD is that you "need" other players to operate the ship or otherwise you are a very big flying paperweight.
One big thing to keep in mind, and that most people who buy ships with real money already know, is that every single one of the ships can be earned in game with what I would consider a mild grind. Ive only ever bought a game package ($45USD) and have earnt everything else in game. Over the course of one patch, I made 80 million in game currency which is enough to buy all but the most expensive ships. That was with maybe 15-20 hours of playtime. Most people understand that buying ships is mostly as a way to fund the development of a game they like. And for helping with the funding, they get the convenience of having the ship available instantly instead of having to work for it.
I loved the idea of SC so I bought a £35 version some years ago now, I played it for about an hour, thought yep, it needs time, like most EA titles.
Still haven’t returned yet, but my god I had no idea that store was a thing, that’s shockingly bad.
tbf its more like a donation and you get some rewards for doing so... Star Citizen is fundraised and these ships in these game packages will be unlockable in game in the future (except some special edition ships like the Sabre Raven from that Intel sponsorship). Take the C2 for example, its like $500 something iirc on the pledge store, but I have 3 in game and the only game package I have is a nomad starter pack upgraded to a hull A then a freelancer.
It's been a lot of change in a pass year and I think the development gonna ramp up after next year, because CIG developing 2 games at the same time and Squadron 48 is entered polish phase now. After its release most of developers probably back to developing Star Citizen.
It's got a long way to go for sure, but it's still a decent pickup every once and a while, and it's not a bad community to just be a part of while the real world goes to shit.
@@usernamealreadytaken9330dude, they already HAVE moved devs from S42 to SC.
Tbf they were asked for these kinds of packages they didn't put them up purely out of greed
I am starting to believe that this game is now a religion. That religion should be called "Citizenology" and instead of other church members auditing you the IRS does instead.
As a regretful backer (only the squadron 42 package that's it)....
Those FKRS ARE CRAZY!
Actually hating the game is more of a religious cult than people that like the game
@@alex_panthea uh huh.
It's like atheism vs Christians isn't it?
At least we relied on facts not feelings.
@@alex_panthea poor man stay with you cult and swipe your card more or grind to make whale feel better about themselves. the day the game would come out it would be outdated, and whale will just be power fantasy enjoyers while you toil to appease them
@sgtsnokeem1139 here's a fact, you knew what you were getting into
It is absolutely wild to me that this game's principal competitor, Elite: Dangerous, has been accessible for pretty much just as long and is definitely showing its age. Meanwhile, Star Citizen is still "in alpha." And a lot of people who have issues with certain decisions by Frontier Developments have essentially jumped ship to Star Citizen for what I believe are petty reasons, yet they will insist until the day they die that Star Citizen is a superior game (even though it will probably never see "full release").
They are two completely different games. ED uses procedural generation while everything in SC is handcrafted. SC is an inch wide and a mile deep. ED is the exact opposite.
CIG absolutely choked on feature creep. E:D is a MUCH smaller and simpler game, and that constrained focus actually let them finish the game, and work on expanding it. Star Citizen, on the other hand, is more akin to Space Engineers with how many underlying systems the game is trying to juggle, with multiple physics grids, subsystem simulation on all spacecraft, freefall and aerodynamic flight models with an avionics system that tries to make it *feel* like it's Wing Commander... All with a 15-year-old game engine that's been almost entirely rewritten. It's a fascinating lesson on how many shortcuts game devs make and how necessary they are to just make a game work.
I'm a casual player who is only interested in a shallow experience and there are many people just like me. I wanted to walk around in big spaceships. Elite didn't provide and Star Citizen did, even though it's in alpha and has many issues. I'm sorry if that sounds insulting to a serious gamer but it's as simple as that.
SC isn't predatory. They don't compel anyone to spend more than the initial $45. They don't lock features behind paywalls. They don't beg for money or force us to open our wallets when we want to play.
I really don't understand where all the grief comes from. Does it matter whether it's released or not when they are upfront about what you currently get for your pledge?
It would be great if all the bugs are fixed and the promises are fulfilled, which is why I don't hold any animosity for the "whales" who buy the packages to support the development, but at this point I'm still satisfied with my experience.
A couple important notes:
1. The game will have no cash shop at release. The current store is a pledge store - you give the project money so they can continue working, you get some stuff in return. Once the game is out there will be no way, other than the grey market, to buy any in game ships or weapons or anything of that sort with real money. This is purely to fund the project without relying on investors/publishers.
2. The packages available to concierge and higher are stuff that the community requested, not the other way around.
3. The released game will *not* be funded by any kind of ship sales, currency sales, etc.
If you do not want to dump money into a game that may never be released, wait for the release and enjoy it then.
these packages are for the folks, obviously...with the means and who wish to aid in the development of the project, as they primarily make their money through the selling of ships. WITH THAT BEING SAID:
Anyone who would like to try out the game keep this in mind. You only need to buy the starter package that comes with the game, which normally runs for 45 bucks. During the holidays they lower it to I believe 30 dollars. THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED. With that in mind, they often do free flys for people to try out the game, don't be shy if you have any questions as the community is quick to assist any newcomers as we have all been there when we first started and there's a good amount of things you need to know from the getgo. They added a new tutorial which does a good job but other questions you may have the community will happily answer.
Some times ago i got mine at 20$ with referal code and coupons
I have over a thousand hours.. off of a £35 pack. I have bought dozens of ships, none of them with cash. I have only been pvp killed a few dozen times. No matter how much you love or hate the game, as you said @alexns, you only need £30, and spending extra cash on a bigger ship only works if you have more people. (Also; at least it's not Star Atlas, ehh?)
"you only need the starter pack!"
and then play a more and more stretched out war thunder-esque grind through vehicles that are already made more and more expensive - without even being released out of alpha.
piss off with that cultist cope crap.
@@the_babbleboom grind? what grind? it took me like two hours to get a titan from my aurora with in game money.
@@the_babbleboom if you want to have a legit argument drop the "cultist" bullshit right now, then we can debate and agree on what is an actual issue with the game, not some self proclaimed and echo chambered bullshit claim about the project.
Same reason why, even if I hit the lotto, I would never buy ferrari. The idea that you have to buy x amount of something in order to even get access to buy something you may want is just nuts.
I used to race Midget class in speedway, my last car cost me $29,000 and I wrote it off in the first race..
I now live with a broken back and I can spend $1,000 and still play a game I like, as I want, in the comfort of my home.
Nah, Warframe never really necessetates you having to partake in each seasonal event for anything. It respects your time and over the years they've just reduced them. Just remember to play during the next time if you want the seasonal event stuff as usually they just add more stuff instead of taking away since they're not anti-consumer trash like with the rest of looter shooter/live service corpos.
I'm a long time player of the game and man I couldn't agree with you more. It's so predatory and it feels like they concentrate more on selling ships than finishing the game.
Also a regretful backer. $90AUD in just for the then SQ42 package.
Still waiting.
Whenever I ask a white knighter (chances are you know what I mean) about SQ42 it's like I asked a theist to show me evidence in any God?
I get word salad that basically amounts to "have faith".... but no evidence.
Extra interesting *facts* : there are now 5 groups or tiers of backers. Group/Tier 1, so the very first wave of testers on some builds, are those who have spent 25K or more.
Yes, after you spend over 1k, it "unlocks" more purchase options. Last I saw, there was a 25k package.
Most of those large packages are usually purchased by organizations of players who are willing (and must) work together to operate said ships.
So, I've been playing video games since the mid 80s and even being generous on how much I spent down in the arcade and on every game I've bought or rented since then I'm still not even close to 48k. In fact even being a tech nerd I don't think I've spent 48k even if I count all the consoles and PCs that I've bought or assembled over the years. It's an insane amount for something that is purely virtual, what happens if a few more years pass and they decide to cancel SC? It's like the SC devs saw the success of the kickstarter and the early items sales and thought "we don't have to complete anything, lets just put more epensive things up for sale and we have a never ending cash cow to live off of".
You're missing the point. CIG asked their top-spenders what they would like to see, and they ASKED for this pack because some of their backers want to fund the project in a big way (and you can also write off some of these purchases on your taxes, depending on their uses) so they could own every ship and support the project.
The guy in the video has the complete wrong view of it: this is how CIG funds the project, and they give you different ways of doing so. The ships are a reward for the pledge, as opposed to just giving CIG thousands of dollars and receiving a thank-you letter in return. Without the funding, Star Citizen would not exist.
@@Billy-bc8pk Again, this is his and my opinion. He and I have a right to have a differing opinion from you, just as you have a right to disagree with me. Opinions are not right or wrong, they are just opinions, facts are either true or untrue and none of those have been discussed here.
On top of my opinion I also asked what happens if development stops, projects peter out for all kinds of reasons and the gaming industry cancels titles even as late as weeks before launch. I do hope that SC gets released and it's backers get all that they dream of. However both Thor and I disagree with the manner in which it's done.
@@nanomageThat's fine, but it does just look like people yelling at the clouds -- especially whenever anyone is asked what the alternative solution would be to maintain their level of funding or giving people options to fund at this level, the response has almost universally been, "I don't know", which isn't really conducive for solving the problem that some of the critics proclaim to have with the project.
And yes, while some opinions may differ, there absolutely are right and wrong opinions and opinions, and facts that can be indisputably true. For instance, without funding Star Citizen would not have made it this far and CIG would not have been able to research and develop the groundbreaking tech they have. We know this to be true because other projects that have endeavoured to build similar tech had to stop short of fulfilling their true goals due to funding, such as Dual Universe.
We also know that it is untrue that CIG could have made the same game for less or in less time as evident by other projects like Starfield, which cut corners and saved on the budget to produce something quicker and with fewer headcount, which did not turn out to be better than Star Citizen in any way when looking at it purely from a technical point of view.
The reality is that these things costs money, and even Hello Games had to grind away for years to accrue the necessary funds (post-launch) to keep expanding on No Man's Sky and also work on their new game. If people had stopped buying No Man's Sky, then Light No Fire simply would not exist. In the case of Star Citizen, if funding abruptly had stopped in 2017, they would have simply been forced to release what they had and call it a day.
If funding stops right now? They have about a year's worth of runway left to finish what they have and call it a day. For the people who pledged 50k or more, they simply chalk it up as a loss and move on. It happens. But people are putting their money where no other publisher is, and that's essentially what these highly expensive ship packs represent -- an opportunity to put their money where publishers won't.
This is literally a ‘completionist’ pack that contains all the ships and all the goodies that have ever been sold(except a handful of cross-promotions). It is, by definition, not necessary for anyone to buy, and gets more expensive each year as they release more new stuff, despite the value actually being decent for what you get(relative to normal ship prices). There are only a handful of people that should even be considering this as an option, most of whom are wealthy, streamers, lead large orgs, or some combination, and most of whom have already spent more than this. The discourse around this pack gets out of hand, thanks to sensationalist media outlets focusing exclusively on the raw dollar amount, without any context.
@@nanomage if you disagree on the manner of how it's done what's a better way for them support their ultimate vision of what they want the games (they're making two at the same time) to be for everyone? How do they support continued development and meet payroll, and continue to hire people as they expand?
thousand dollars holy shit
I bought into the game in 2016. Often encountered a bug where I couldn't access the Mobiglass (or whatever the starmap on your wrist is called) and select either missions, gear, etc etc. Fast-forward to about a month ago, the EXACT SAME BUG still persists. 3/4 of a billion dollar game btw.
You don't select gear through the mobi glass anymore that's been that way for well over a month. But keep repeating others nonsense
@@ccgod okay I will
The way I see SC development cycle is like a Red Giant star. The only thing stopping that star from collapsing is the huge amount of energy pushing out. SC has probably attracted an audience it would have, so the only revenue stream they have are new ship sales. If they stopped selling JPEG’s the game would likely collapse under its own weight. They have huge technical debt, and huge salary overhead also. I don’t know how many millions they have left, but I do remember them buying fancy offices, and new cars, and such. Personally I think it will eventually be released but it will be a shadow of what they intended. 1.0 will be a heavily curtailed product, and it will be far too late for anyone to do anything about it. Expect class action lawsuits to follow shortly after.
Do you even sc bro?
Sq42 if it's everything they claim will make over 500mil easy. This will then drive ship sales in SC to go up, bringing them even more money. They'll be fine.
This was spot on. Its gross the way they treat the backers/players. Spent 8 yrs trying to stay positive, but the second you post in the forums, you see the level of moderation at hand.....entire threads scrubbed with no trace.
Fuck that studio.
I love Elite: Dangerous - I haven't played Star Citizen but it doesn't cost any extra and it's a great space game WITH planetary action too
I've seen posts of people spending so much money that their loved ones leave them like marriage is dissolving because of this game. I didn't believe it at first but after seeing the prices I truly believe that some people will just go too far when available ships and stuff are released. It's an addiction at the end of the day
I'll take things that never happened for 1000 Alex.
@@ccgod I hope I am wrong
@tubby800 The average backer is 35+ no bodies taking out a 2nd mortgage and leaving their family to buy some ships you can earn in game.
@@ccgod well again, I hope I'm wrong. However I've seen people succumb to far simpler things. also its a shit game at the end of the day so whatever
@tubby800 well yeah they'll ways be some people that do that. But this game receives a ton of negative/ made-up press, and they're not allowed to report on anything good about it.
Ferrari has a similar business model, you only get special editions if you've bought enough of them before from the official dealership.
plenty of fashion brands also use this approach
Not defending their prices, they're ludicrous. But you can buy the starter ship and get access to this game for around 50-60 dollars. Which is around what many games cost now. A lot of the ships are attainable in game by grinding some currency and the ships that aren't will probably be available for in game currency in the future.
That's how much a finished game costs, not access to a barely functional alpha.
@@ElriuhiluThe game is fully playable with continous content updates, feature releases, and patches. Your hate is rediculous. For $45 you can do more on one planet than you can in all of Starfield. Released doesnt mean good.
@@mikevachon8752 wow you love that starfield sucks so you have something to point at saying "look this sucks too" do you. And this is not even the worst thing in SC like feature creep, a lot of wasted resources(money), lack of focus(i this is a larger thing too), bad management and more
@@Elriuhilumost 60$ game that are released these past few years are unfinished anyways
With $60 you can buy a AAA game on playstation *or* around 5 amazing indies games...
You can buy Elite dangerous *and* an hotas for that price... And if you add a good ship price, you can buy a VR headset, a Hotas, and a motion simulator.
For $50.000 you can buy a plane simulator, or even a real plane 😅
With 48.000 I can almost fly to space and come back.
😂 not close
not unless you multiply it nearly 10x
This game was asked for. Everything is what we want. People dont understand us. But one day you will all enjoy the server meshing tech they develop with that money. Ever person on the planet, gamer or not will likely benefit from this revolutionary tech.
That's if it can be applied to other networking systems.
While it sounds like "you need to spend 1k/10k before buying any of these", they utilize an upgrade system so that for instance the legatus pack isnt a minimum of 58k, but rather a total of 48k. Its built for players buying individual ships as a way for them to consolidate their pledges in a way that is more beneficial to those already having spent the money
I love how some of you are justifying this shit is because “the players asked for it”. Over half of the stuff on the store was more than the cost of the game, the transactions shouldn’t exist in the first place let alone $1000 purchases.
This is a great example of whale farming simulator being more important than making the game.
@@benjaminfrost2780 but on then other hand, making the game would be impossible without player funding, seeing as it's a player funded game.
Question: why on Earth do you need 700 Million for a game!!! what are they doing? its not like they can stop selling ships because they run out of money HOW???!!!
CIG´s Marketing is so aggressive and it got worse over the years. its also a big problem for game balance how do you sell a fighter if people already have one? you made them stronger than the previous one. looking at F8C F8A they said they would never sell these ships yet here we are. so if they wanna sell us a new fighter guess whats happen exactly a F9 or something like that:)
the worst part is if you Criticize the game or the development. you get banned and people jump in defending CIG.
that´s why i avoid Spectrum like the Plaque.
Chris Roberts needs a second Yatch, just saying.
Because no one could do what they are trying to do without a lot of money.
And put his wife through acting school
True, I absolutely love the game and don't mind waiting for it but, don't those boomer star citizen cultists understand that if you give Cig an inch they'll take a mile. 1000 dollars for a ship is bunkers, they even justify it by saying stupid stuff like you only need 50 dollars to get everything in the game, yes that's true but what about the future? Aren't they worried about the p2w?
They need the money to revolutionize the way you create games. Server meshing. seamless transition from space to planet, a global, persistent universe, all of that was not a thing anywhere on this scale before they laid the ground work.
In 2009 when I was starting my game development career, I thought up a monetisation method very similar to this. For a space Sim too.
My idea was to make it so you have to build sips similar to eve, but you can drop money on it to speed up the manufacturing time.
I didn't do it, obviously, otherwise thor would be talking about me now as well. I didn't do it because I thought it was morally bankrupt. That being said, seeing the sheer amount of money sc has made for Chris Roberts, there is a part of me that wished I did do it.