This is a pretty good episode and it's pretty on par with my experiences, both with Star Citizen and game development or general shifts in videogames and gamers I've seen in general. Star Citizen in a lot of ways feels too sluggish and too slow, too tedious. The game has too many mechanics that don't add anything, but still need to constantly be updated and made to work with new updates, it's holding them back. The eating and drinking mechanic you've brought up was one of the first things I've complained about to friends when I started playing last year. It doesn't do anything, it doesn't add anything it doesn't take away anything, it's just one more mechanic that can break one update and then developers will have to look into that again. Every game developer is different of course, but personally I am very much advocating to rewarding players if you want them to do something instead of punishing them. Staying on the topic of food and drink, they could give you a passive buff, maybe you are a bit more resilient to injuries, or stamina lasts longer. Or maybe you can run a bit faster. If you're well rested, well fed, you'll perform better in combat, people who care will make use of it. There's a lot that they could do instead of making it a chore, if they really want to keep the mechanic. Worst case if that breaks, people get a permanent buff or the food doesn't do anything at all. But it wouldn't frustrate people. At least... not most people. This would also open up the opportunity for cooking gameplay to generate different buffs or combinations of buffs, as is commonly seen in other MMOs or RPGs, but don't tell CiG that, at least not yet. I could list an endless amount of game mechanics, things they could do or should do according to my experiences, but ultimately it's not my game, and I don't want to list complaints or wishes. I'll say this though, if I look at more recent mechanics they added, like the ammo repooling, that just feels so much better than most of the older mechanics. You get a small UI, it's showing you all the information you need, and then it's done. Everyone's getting the same mechanic too, so nobody can argue it's unfair or unbalanced. The game can really use some more features that feel snappy instead of sluggish. I hope they fix some of the older mechanics/animations too. I dread operating the vehicle terminal, and I dread sitting down in the pilot's chair of any spaceship, waiting for the thing to turn 180 degrees or lift up or what have you... this feels especially bad when you're in a combat situation and would like your character to act a little more alert. Just let me sit down or get up. The respawning and the hotkey to take off your helmet to eat and drink without actually taking it off is also a step in the right direction, but the helmet thing is only a partial solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. So, I like some of the new changes they did, but we will see where this goes, we're all in the same boat. Though I fear that at this point CiG has fallen into the typical "tunnel-vision" trap. Their game works the way it does, they are used to it, but it really shouldn't be that way, and I hope they realize this. The community could help a lot to provide feedback, but from all I've seen, proper feedback often gets swallowed in waves of complaints and too many people trying to make the game exactly what they want it to be without considering others.
What a waste of 60 seconds. What you typed was more meaningless than this comment, some of the mechanics don't do anything, some of them are good, they should make you want to do these mechanics. You said nothing in so many words
I had issues with audio in the past, they were fixed when i bought: Sound Blaster AE-5 plus sound card. Along with Steel Series Arctis Nova 1p and a dongle to split the 3.5mm jack into 1 for microphone and 1 for Headphone audio. Now, years later i can say it was worth it because it costed me less than 150$ for both products. Thats how i fixed all my audio issues, recording, podcasts, listening to music was elevated a lot for myself :)
Solid discussion. That whole planet surface -> tram ride -> to ship -> to orbit experience is a great first-time user experience. Scale, wow factor, etc. But once that is done, it really shouldn't be part of the daily gameplay loop. It would be better as a kind of first-time tutorial.
Glad you brought this guy on. Planet Side 2 was an amazing game. Star Citizen sells a 890 Jump that you as the capt can not shoot back at other players... In 2024... CIG needs to have a solo feature just like ELITE. Elite at the time asked the players if they wanted an offline solo mode and it was an overwhelming yes. The same thing will need to happen with CIG for this game to last into the future. Oh and to play a single bunker.
I'm a long time backer. I think you're absolutely right about the pacing of the game and I feel the same way about playing the PU. I've been treating it like a tech demo for years now, I just log in to check out the cool features on patch day and as soon as I run up against the inevitable "kiss the last two hours of gameplay goodbye" moment I just log and uninstall until the next patch. As for respawning and gearing, I think there has to be a happy middle ground there. It's not a big deal if the shopping part of gearing takes some time, I kind of like wandering about buying supplies. But for the love of god the game needs a loadout system. Let me hit up a locker room in my personal hanger, click the loadout and then I'm geared. You wanna make me physically carry gear into the ship? Fine, but FFS let me put it on at the locker/gun rack by clicking a preset loadout. Having to manually fiddle through the fucking UI every. single. time. is abominable.
A happy medium is for sure what I want you see and I feel like too many people see the suggestion in absolutes only. I want the cost and everything related to purchasing the gear but I want the time expenditure cut out. The time waste is my biggest gripe not the actual loss of items or money. What has always struck me as odd is people would never stand for having to rebuy and reequip a ship each time it is claimed but most are happy to let infantry do just that.
@@BuzzCutPsycho we used to have to re-purchase ship loadouts every time. They walked that back to what we have now. I’d definitely take a checkbox like “INSURE EQUIPMENT” that auto-buys anything I dropped from when it was saved, at local prices, and maybe a brief delay if shit has to ship to me. Maintain the immersion but gimme more convenience.
One thing that’s currently INCONVENIENT but very close to being excellent is the gear system. What I like: - shopping around for my favorite armor - capitalizing on my knowledge of local shops to do so - the feeling of buying 50 assault rifles and 300 magazines, like I’m actually stocking up - being able to view all my items anywhere in any storage. - mixing and matching every piece to style perfection What I don’t like and how it could be improved: - preset loadouts to quick equip my favorite armor set, weapon, magazines, medpens - direct shipping from my hanger to my bedroom to gear up elsewhere - quick shipping from storage to storage - gear insurance and auto-buy orders when my stocks get low - Org shared storage/bank for the love of lobster this is an “mmo” I roll with a massive org and we sometimes do 60 person events. It’s always the poor marines taking longest to set up.
Presets and shipping to me are an absolute must. I will pay extra to have players or npc deliver the gear I want in bulk Oh and more org stuff? Yes please. Good comment
The way I look at it is that SC aims to make the "mundane" parts of space interesting. Imagine if you and your friends actually went up to the International Space Station IRL. It'd be a completely mind blowing experience. In the same way I think eventually just handing around a space station, doing side quests and talking to people would be fun for some people.
it does seem like they are trying to make a suite of games, not just a game. So S42 for normies, AC and Star Marine for gamers, and Star Citizen for me.
@@BuzzCutPsychoseems like the only way, 'hanging around a space station' will work, aside from the need to introduce social tools, is if it becomes an actual MMO with server capacity for large numbers of players.
Planetside 2, i was subbed for some time, promised id get regular game credits, after a few months i asked where my credits were and apparently i needed to click some button. i asked them to give me what i paid for, they refused, i unsubbed and eventually uninstalled. Star citizen has always without fail given me what i paid for. Pretty damning comparison sadly but my money is worth more than "gotcha" tactics. ( sometimes its not even the games fault, it's the respect for the customer ) Great chat fellas, ty.
You are welcome! PlanetSide 2, despite both of us working on it, is objectively one of the worst games ever made and an insult to PlanetSide 1. But none of that was our doing, I swear.
I remember Malorn. If I remember he went to Microsoft. I thought with Theaters of War it was going to take Star Citizen to a new level but it never happened. Nothing unifies the player base. Great podcast!
@@Billy-bc8pk server meshing doesnt automatically solve every issue, especially not in a confined space as theatres of war, that's not what it is for...
@@DharMahn_ Theatres of war isn't a confined space -- it's combined arms across large areas, but they can use server meshing for the object containers across multiple areas if need be to reduce load and improve on potential desynchronisation, which is precisely why they're waiting until server meshing before re-implementing it.
@@Billy-bc8pk i played ToW. It was a very fun but janky mess. Server meshing is not the fix needed for ToW. The game space, although larger is still confined to a constrained area of space and more importantly a smaller number of assets needing to load, if well defined it should never need more than 1 server. What ToW needed was much more effective lag compensation like interpolation/client prediction and a lot of refining of the animations which are 1 to 1 between 1st and 3rd person which also necessitates more network traffic and a higher sever tick rate.
Missed the heyday of PS2, but played Dark Crusade with an awesome guild that was spawned in Planetside 2. Good talk and makes me think i missed out by missing peak PS2 with that guild (Praetorian Guard).
Ah I remember PG. Very cool. Yeah you missed a lot but PS1 was better. ;) this cast was just an intro to both of us and we will do more topic focused ones later.
I like the idea of Star Citizen having some heavy, hardcore elements. I do want there to be difficult, rewarding objectives that stress the importance of preparation and survival. With that said, I don't want every single element of the game to be that way. Playability is going to need to be a major priority in the coming months, especially for when SQ42 is released and the masses start flocking to SC.
Completely agree about SC not being a sim. But it does need a certain amount of plausibility and - most importantly- an internal consistency in order for most players to find it intelligible and relatable. Really no different that any sort of fantasy fiction - there can be 'magical' elements that break from reality (be it actual spells, or near light speed travel) but there also need to be reasonable limitations too, otherwise you run into the problems of games where everyone is a superhero.
I think stuff like food courts and that will be much higher used by orgs events and even when the number of players shoot up. Like when the full galactic map is open to all of us, say you wanna travel with your org to an unexplored solar system or plan for making a homebase somewhere, can all meet at a RnR and at least it will be more lively I'd say.
I can see that. Or, big org events on capital ships and stuff for meetings. I would like that. But I do want to meet new people and randoms in social areas. I may be all about PvP but I think those are important aspects too.
@BuzzCutPsycho true! I do like these sort of spaces, you've talked about it being out of the game and not affecting the world, but sometimes it's nice to not have to do anything and you can just sit there and do nothing. Probably why I like going to the prison, sometimes it's like my time away from having to make money and just have a time out.
My take on SC is that the devs and especially designers (not sure if these are the same at CIG and honestly don't care) aren't actually playing the PU, they play on their Dev servers using god mode commands. The tedious tasks we get to experience as normal players they fly by them. And I get it, being a dev myself you want to test whatever you implemented not go through the slog to get there. But having the 'user ecperience' might help them understand how silly and tedious it all becomes sometimes, especially due to all the different bugs outside of our own control that force us to again claim, fly out and jump to join our buddies. There is also a severe dissonance appearing in the gameplay of different areas of the game; whereas cargo (soon salvage, mining has been broken due to scanning been shit) gets even more realistic and tedious, fps gets the arcade treatment (backpack reloading). How do you explain these 2 opposites? Making FPS convenient and cargo just a timesink. It's like 2 different design foundations that kinda clash in a big way. Can someone make up their mind at CIG and apply a congruent idea of what the game should be? CIG has an issue with communication, but I'm starting to believe even the communication at CIG internally is a problem. From the outside I see 2 opposite mindsets emerging depending on if its pew pew or not.
I would agree 100% with you and I do not at all think they are playing the PU. If they were they could not honestly, with a straight face, look at what is going on and say "This is fine"
You guys are addressing a thought process that I’ve come around to recently myself. SC is going to have to make some compromises in regards to realism and “being hardcore” in the future as it becomes more of a game in order to accommodate the real life, human needs of its playerbase that has jobs and families and other things that limit how much time they can spend playing. That’s going to make certain loud minorities in the playerbase very mad (and I would say the current debate on master modes is a preview of this), but it needs to be done to secure success in the market. I was really pleased to hear this week on SCL that they’re looking at changing logging out so that you log in the same position when returning, whether you used a bed or not. That’s a great first step in this process.
I am glad we're not alone in those thoughts. We have time, we can make time, but my god, SC requires too much time to do tedious nonsense and it sucks. People don't get that. That news from SCL is amazing, btw.
It's still necessary to maintain what it was pitched as for the people drawn to a space-sim with realistic elements, because making it too casual attracts the wrong crowd. It's okay for games to not accommodate everyone, and much like DCS World, it's completely fine if Star Citizen only maintains attracting a specific audience, as we don't need younger or more idle players to become mainstays in the playerbase.
I don't think I would be considered someone on the more hardcore side of things, but I am someone who would prefer SC to stay true to it's more SIM style intentions (even if not a true sim). I think a lot of things just aren't implemented particularly well and are more difficult than they ought to be. I don't really want the core online experience to be Arena Commander. I like going into the game, setting myself up for whatever missions I want to do that session, planning ahead, and going and doing them. I think the barrier might be a bit too steep at the moment given how easy it is to die, or get stuck, etc. However, that doesn't mean I want it to be a pre-game loadout menu where I get dropped into my ship in a hanger. I hope that in the future, you can set up supply lines where you store extra supplies at the locations you frequent so that when you go there, or when you set your spawn there and die, your Time to Quantum (TTQ) is shorter. I am personally advocating for systems where item selection is one of the ways to avoid tedium. Your character and what you choose to do is informed by the tedium you are ok with and what you're not. I was a tad miffed when they made backpack reloading enabled by default. Not because I like opening my backpack up and moving magazines around, but because I think it's an avenue to create interesting utility items with interesting tradeoffs. I want items to be differentiated by utility and function rather than stat bonuses, and making the game more convenient removes avenues to do that (not saying it's impossible). I don't want items to just be purple = blue++, yellow = purple++, etc. That's incredibly boring and lackluster. I enjoy games that are number go up, but that's not what I want out of Star Citizen. I'm not a big MMO person, so we'll see what the MMO features shape up to be. SC is honestly the only game where I've ever seriously considered joining an org/guild but that's not why I backed. I backed because I wanted to play the exploration loop. I anticipate playing mostly solo or with a handful of close friends (possibly org mates if it goes that route). For that reason most of the tedium is somewhat irrelevant to me because my entire game loop will be a lot of tedium. A lot of planning, making sure I have supplies and won't get stranded, etc. All for the tiniest chance that I get to be one of the first players to find something. In that sense almost the entire game up to this point I care about only insofar as they are making progress. I'm happy for people who enjoy mining, people who enjoy refining, and for people who are looking forward to base building, etc. This stuff is cool, but it's just not what I want. I want to plan missions where I have to make sure I don't starve to death out in the middle of nowhere. Where I have to be careful and cognizant of unknown enemies and minimize risk. Preparedness will be my greatest ally and negligence my worst. In that sense managing tedium is what I want, even though I realize that may not be what the player base at large desires. I still have to advocate for the version of SC that I was told would exist when I backed. I think that the focus on strictly space combat has in that sense been a detriment to Star Citizen. The reason some aspects of the game are tedious is because other aspects of the game and other game loops are about managing those things you dislike so much even though they seem unnecessary. That doesn't mean that there aren't massive areas for improvement, and many things can be smoothed out, or made less tedious and still be considered "what I was promised."
Amazing comment. I've given up on "what was promised" long ago and I don't think that was promised is even possible in this day and age. I think there is a very big difference between preparation and planning and the tedium which we discuss which are really just pointless time sinks. You can accomplish AC style loadouts in SC the same way our ships come with loadouts when claimed. That is what I mean when I mention AC accessibility in the PU. You take the theory and apply it in a way that works for the PU. Same with better respawn options. Planning is fun. Always has been. But when planning is done to avoid pointless time wasters like the train rides or excessive QT times I begin to take issue. If there is something in that game that doesn't require me to be at attention and allows me to walk away AFK until it completes I wonder why it is there in the first place. Your comment is very logical and fair. I enjoyed it. I don't have much to comment on in regards to the other bits since I agree. I did however feel compelled to clarify I do want accessibility without the cost of integrity and I think we can get that.
Key point you brought up, SC while an MMO, it is also a SIM (SC simulation doesn't necessary have to be simulation of realism, but their sci fi world). It is not a game that fits in typical gaming paradigms. The SIM portion of the game is one of the things that makes it unique. SC is more immersion than MMO, imo. PS2 is not a great comparison in my opinion, let alone other MMO's (Eve, WoW, etc). Obviously the game still has legs even in alpha, so they are doing something right. I personally would have rather this game gone non MMO and been co op with more npc. I don't care about the MMO aspect. I consider myself a good portion of the player base. A lot of people like solo play or only want to play with a few people. Those that want the massive MMO org on org feel with needing massive amounts of players I don't feel represents the majority of the player base.
I am glad you know the difference between SC and SIM. Most people do not and assume SC is meant to be DCS in space. With each patch and numerous changes, I believe SC inches more towards an "MMOFPS" than people think. The inclusion of infantry combat and combined arms is further solidifying that. It may not have started this way, but it has ended up becoming this way. I feel like the game will move more towards "org vs org" as time goes on, and orgs will end up being the prime movers of the game. Those who do not want that experience will likely live in high sec or low sec space. You may be right; it might not represent the entirety of the player base. But, it represents the most "sticky" part of the player base. In PlanetSide 2, according to metrics, one thing we observed was that players in outfits were likely to be retained in the product far longer than those who flew solo. I am NOT AT ALL going after you or disparaging what you said. This is a good comment and is a nice inspiration for further talk between Malorn and me. But I think SC is going towards the MMO route, for better or for worse. I believe CIG is now even considering it an MMO. I do respect players like you, believe it or not. You're also important. And I think both types can co-exist.
@@BuzzCutPsycho FYI - im also an old timer. Love your content. I totally get your points on this topic and agree. As an older player I get all the opinions and respect all the angles. Its an interesting discussion. Now, just because I would rather co op, I also like MMO's too. So my take is not to be dismissive of the MMO aspect. I like those games too. I just feel that what SC wants to accomplish with massive battles that are cinematic and trying to keep players engaged with FPS or ship combat will take years to get in place, get right, and may break what makes it unique. Furthermore, I feel that supporting the level of players you would need for this is prohibitive and at odds with physics. Will they get it to work? Maybe but not at the level that feels good, or it will take 2-3 years. I hope Im wrong. :) PS2 and more have a lot of non sim aspects which for what they are doing makes sense - one of my buddies is a long timer on that game as well.. Wasn't my bag, - as an artist who appreciates the high fidelity stuff and a certain sci fi feel, I didnt care for the PS aesthetic. Anyhow, respawning in SC for instance would need to be more FPS standard specific if they want to lean into that sort of game loop. To be candid, I personally love SC for the sim aspect and just being immersed. If I want FPS PVP i'll play a different game that scratches that itch. SC doesnt have the loops that make sense for kill, respawn, kill again. IF they can get someplace in the middle (which I think everyone hopes they can) then I can reconsider. But for now, SC is like your own personal spaceship sim pit, where you get to actually fly around a massive solar system with high fidelity in your model spaceships and pretend you are a space bad ass, nomad, trucker, miner, etc. That to me is why it is fun, cool, and scratches a different itch I dont get from other games. I think SC needs to stay unique in its own lane with some concessions for accessibility as you both mentioned. That said, for me SC is a here and there game.. meaning I don't play it religiously, but then at this stage I dont play anything religiously. lol. And as far as supporting this game, I am in very deep, but love what its given me. Its simply cool and fun to follow, play here and there, and give me and a few buddies the space immersion I need once in a while. No other game does it quite like they do - Elite too vanilla and restrictive from a FPS perspective, EVE too calculated and not immersive, Starfield no co op or vehicles and Nasa punk is boring, NMS too cartoony. What SC gives totally works for me. Thanks for the time and response. I'm sure I'll see ya around in the verse.
I love the podcast! Maybe someday you can sit down with one of the SC developers and have a real talk with them. I don't want to beat up the SC devs, but I do want them to answer real questions.
At 42 minutes. Yep, I am put off from multi-crew activities due to the preparation required. Very sim like. Fast travel and fast equipping is easy and a proven success. ARMA, which is a proper simulator does it well with crates at spawn points.
ARMA does a lot right and getting groups to play together is one of those. I really do hate how I dread doing anything with a group. Which sucks since that is my favorite thing to do in games.
One of the big things you're missing is the fact that people paid to be in those classes and then they change drastically. That breeds far more animosity than just classes evolving that you didn't have to sink a lot of money into.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Oh believe me I know and agree, just as a matter of psychology is what I'm saying. If let's say I got into an MMO and had to buy my class from the start, then the developer goes and dramatically changes how that class functions or it's role and viability and If I don't like it I have to do the free-2-play grind for an extortive amount of ingame currency or shell out more real money to switch I'd be a little more than "annoyed." That's just the way I look at the situation when ship concepts get reimagined into something they weren't pitched as. (See: Cutlass Black)
I think both is the potential but the second life part would have to come after the MMO combat part. Ideally, we would have both,. I myself always enjoyed Cantinas in SWG. :D
Wow, a little thoughtful conversation from people that actually know what they’re talking about and are reasonable. For those who “got gud” in a “tech demo” shot themselves in the foot. It sucks but why would you do that for a game in development? This is a testing environment PERIOD and those who make videos with pretty pictures who are frustrated and act like it’s a game to “play” need to move on to a finished game if they can’t get that.
If his game sucks I'm still going to tell him. People who invest time and money into a vision tend to care about good feedback when that vision isn't really clear or possible. Good leaders take and consider all feedback.
I agree that in the present state of the game, landing zones seem to have no other purpose other than being a timesink and an opportunity to showcase the games sense of scale. However the key phrase here is ‘present state of the game”. CIG are constantly giving us hints in a variety of formats that the game we are playing now might be completely different from the final product game that they are actually working towards. Master Modes is good example of the difference between the player base expectations of the game they had been playing and the game the devs are working towards. The landing zone are obviously designed with future gameplay in mind. For example CIG have teased us in a variety of ship ads and other videos that bounty hunting in the cities is going to be a thing though the present game mechanics like armistice zones would seem to preclude it. But that is point. Again CIG have both hinted and stated openly that reputation will open and close various forms of gameplay and it’s not inconceivable for instance that a high rep in security or bounty hunting would allow the player to use weapons within the armistice zones. This form of gameplay gives players reasons to visit the landing zones and a variety of other gameplay devices such as shops and guildhalls offering reputation based rewards could easily be implemented to make landing zones a hub of gameplay rather than just the places you can’t wait to get out of.
Hopefully the shit they talked about in the latest SCL where at some point in the future you'll log in where you logged out at as a persistent player location instead becoming a fucking magician and teleporting into a bed, that'd help somewhat with the whole game not really respecting your time with all the travel you need to do within cities. And is.. almost exclusively why I make it a point not to ever be on a planet (which should be more of a draw) when I log out and do it on a station or Grim. It just has a lot of these little time wasters that add up pretty rapidly if you have to take into account more than yourself, cause now you're waiting on the other guys to get set up if they aren't already. Quantum Travel times is.. whatever to me, it's hard to say how I'm going to feel about it until the new quantum experience comes in.
I think that is a major first step into changing the way to be more accessible. The log in / log out thing works. It opens doors up to more changes, like respawns and the like. It is only up from here. You hit the nail on the head. The time wasters get even worse when you bring more people into it. Trying to run an org event is a major hassle and often not even worth it as a result.
They should add text bubbles over players. So you can identify who's typing in global. Basically, treat text chat like a proxy voice. Voip should also broadcast in proxy unless you are using specific helmets or comes. Add eavesdropping mechanics. Unless you are purposely using in game messaging to privately communicate. Party chat and DMs should be private. The party system can be improved by when forming a party in the lobby, everyone should enter the server with the party leaders location. Saved loadouts for personal inventory. Doesn't need to be extreme. It needs to be easier to get to "start." Should not be more than 3 clicks to get set up and go as long as your inventory can support it or then items are available at your locations. Another factor of respawning is that it should not conflict with playing with others. I think selectable spawn points should be a party feature, like you are networked, and that you can spawn at any available locations within in that network. Say if you party up with me, and i have selected my ship's med bed as a spawn point, you should beable to spawn at that medbed because you are networked with me. As if you selected a nearby station, I could respawn there. Treat it as you can only select one respawn location per player, but networking as a party becomes a value added in options.
I have always liked the idea of floating bubbles. Realism be damned! Party system is terrible now and ANYTHING would be an improvement. Good suggestion. Saved loadouts are a major focus for me. Ships have it, but infantry don't? Party network is also good. Or, if the party leader could force people's respawn points for events or whatever. I know PlanetSide 1 had that. Anything to keep the party together, like you suggested, would also be great. I just want groups to be able to stay together easier. It promotes good gameplay and friendships.
I would wish UA-cam would stop eating my comments 1) The original concept of Star Citizen is more to Day Z and Rust. The player would operate their own Server and have people come in to populate it. That was the original thought. 2) People have rose colored glasses thinking difficulty back in the day was fun. Games were make or break on difficulty. It had to be balanced, and From Software almost went belly up until Dark Souls 2 became a cult classic hit. Only reason Elden Ring exists is in part due to Twitch and people playing DS2 and 3 with their bases mocking them for dying. 3) Food and Drink in the game serve no purpose other than maintenance. Other games typically you eat and drink where this mechanic is placed is to regenerate stamina and prevent dehydration that can cause issues during gunfights. No word on if this is going to be a thing in Star Citizen. 4) Death of a Spaceman needs to be scrapped or heavily altered. The gaming public at large has spoken that perma death games are hyper niche. Its why Day Z's overall progression is at a snails pace, people dont want to be hassled with recreation of something. To those arguing it'd hurt medic gameplay.....add more tools to medic gameplay other than a heal gun. 5) Roberts has a choice right now. Go towards the MMO aspect and be the first legit space MMO or stay with the original concept of Sandbox thus allowing anyone to run their own servers (and if you ever played rust its a legit crapshoot). There's a lot of core concepts that can stay...like the travel from planet to space (and vice versa). However there also needs to be resources on space stations as some may choose to be more space bound vs planet bound. That also means actually spawning on a space station if one chooses.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I think what people should understand. This is Robert's game, not ours...we just populate it. At the end of the day Roberts will design the game in a way that will appeal to the larger audience vs the niche. Those who are complaining about MM really should understand we've yet to experience the Star Engine's true physics system and MM is built to take advantage of that system.
At 39 minutes. It would be better if the law systems and respawn systems were delayed and we had the ability to continue engaging with other players. Imagine of security services/fines and death of a space man consequence were delayed 24 hours. Perhaps our respawn options and missions access are impacted on a delayed basis.
I can see that. Right now the law system is so binary it is not only unbelievable but also unengaging. I would love to do a heist and know mass security forces are enroute to my position. Also having NPCs hunt me down too.
@@BuzzCutPsycho how odd, that it take 10 to 20 minutes to get to a mission objective but the law system is instant! So much for immersion. I prefer a reputation system over a law system.
@@andrewkok3467 reputation is the main thing i am looking for it and also opens up the way for a ton of new things as well as reasons to work for and against certain factions
Games which are too difficult to learn or too grindy will eventually sink. A good game has good in-game helpers, the systems are functionally relevant and the grind-for-access/content or pay-for-acces/content is balanced.
Easy to learn and difficult to master will always be my favorite type of game. Something I can get but over time practice at and excell in. SC is getting there with MM.
Someone posted a screenshot in discord of a 24 hour prison sentence. Just for killing NPCs. And im left wondering, how does this make sense? Almost every time ive had a CS its by accidently killing an npc OR or a game bug. And when that happens, i might get angry and end up with a 7 or 9 hour prison sentence. So i wait until bed time then i turn myself in to do my time while im asleep. But 24 hours? Why? Yeah i know u can do "things" to make it faster or escape but thats not what i logged on to do. So why would i bother?
That too. Kind of makes sense too, doesn't it? One of many possible solutions. I will include this in our next talk when we get to respawns and other such things. This is not a bad idea.
Eve Online almost fell into the same station problem that is really a plague in Star Citizen. There is no point in walking around in stations in the spaceship game unless you are boarding and taking it over which I doubt is coming anytime soon.
I kind of agree with most of this but the main problem with SC is all the different variables and things that are not in the game. SC right now is not a game I think that is playable everyday but I believe it will be with in the next year. I have just taken a year off playing it because I said to myself I would not play anymore until the sort out the star map. I had a blast playing other games and feel this is the key. Most of the complaining about the game I hear (which is legitimate) reminds of a child standing buy the oven pulling there mother's apron "Is the cake ready yet". We all want cake.
We all want cake. I agree. This cake is pretty big, and is taking a lot of time. I think by every other game pretty much being "bland" on the MMO front is why this game even has a chance. It really is the only new thing.
The only reason you are having to do the summoning the ships each session is because you get reset to the nearest space station/city when you log, or last visited or what ever. Eventually you'll be able to logout and in wherever you are and this was mentioned on Fridays Q&A with the devs. Honestly, I think this game isn't for you frankly since you want the immersive feature replaced with fast travel. The whole point is that you have to think about what you're doing logistically. Quantum travel is variable between the ship components. There are faster QDs and slower QDs but they come with trade offs such as increased fuel consumption. If you've played EVE online, you'll find that people are localised to a few solar systems at best. The same will apply to Star Citizen whereby unless you are going on specific missions or cargo etc, you will be staying around 1 or 2 planets. So essentially, a lot of your complaints are down to the fact that it's alpha with unfinished features and with bugs as to why you are repeating the same tasks over and over again going to respawn your ship etc. I get the impression that neither of you have watched any of the development videos. It doesn't help that it's scattered across years of videos, but even if you watched the dev videos regularly, you'd understand the vision of the game more because all your criticisms seem to be on things devs are well aware of and are going to be worked on eventually.
One does not need to see years upon years of visionary pandering to realize that every now-and-again that its good to remind developers that some features do not and will not survive first contact with reality. For example it can be assumed that many, many backers did not sign up for a 30 minute loop upon re-spawn when trying to ground pound as infantry, the process for which (even when staged to be closer to a fight/objective/event) is still to this very day chore upon needless chore. An example of a fluid loop was given in the video (planeside 1) where respawning was: Wake up>Walk 10 feet to terminal>Select gear>Run Outside> Play game. If we contrast this with the worst case infantry scenario (Spawning on a planet) it looks more like: Wake up>Take off worthless medical gown>run to & ride public transit> Purchase chest rig, Leg armor, Arm armor, helmet & flight suit if your feeling spicy that day> Purchase ammo> Purchase Meds> purchase weapons> purchase Multi Tool>Purchase food/water> Equip gear> ride public transit> Spawn ship>Wait for ship>Call ATC> Exit atmosphere> QT to destination (or nearest point you can reach)>Play game. At what point do these necessary steps become chores? At what point is it 'ok' to call BS on gameplay facets that will only add to the list of chores such as the concept of 'death of a spaceman'?
@@TheSpoonalot If I wanted to play planetside 2, I would have kept playing after trying out the game for an hour several years ago. If i wanted to play COD or battleifled with instant respawns, I would have bought those games, instead, I have never owned a single one. But star citizen with its immersion, the planning and logistics as a player that you have to do is what is appealing and has always been appealing. You newer guys though clearly aren't interested in this game and have played it, don't like its vision and want to change it into generic FPS shooter trash. You should have done your research beforehand. I've been a backer for over 8 years now....back when I first signed up in the 2.x patches, I was fully aware of how punishing this game was meant to be. In fact, it has become less punishing since there is a downstate now allowing other players to heal you to a degree. Along with the rework of "death of a spaceman" so you aren't creating in a sense a new character each time. Medical gameplay has been expanded as such that it is a viable and necessary gameplay loop for combat. Not that it's a bad thing, the new medical gameplay loop is much better and works well whilst incapacitating someone in combat, and allowing squamates to revive if there is time at a weakened state. But it's clear neither of the 2 people on the podcast have an idea of why the food/drink is important. It's part of resource management and means that people can't just stand around in the open on a planet that is 200+ degrees for hours on end in their environmental suit meaning they will be forced to consider the logistics of an operation and factor in those variables in any operation. Same with people in light and medium fighters where their operation effectiveness is drastically limited. A trade off for being in a dedicated combat ship compared to a 300 series. This game is full of trade offs which most of you don't understand or can't grasp the simple concept of. You have a super hornet, great at combat, but short range and will need a carrier. Compare that to the 300 series which will have its ass handed to it, but is able to operate for longer periods of time without needing to resupply. Ship components all come with their trade offs, check erkul to see them. Higher fuel consumption for faster travel. Higher em signature etc. Once you grasp these basic concepts, then you'll start to understand the game. This game is not some crappy fps shooter, it's not Elite Dangerous, it's not No Man's Sky. It's more comparable to EVE online which at least when I played 15 years ago was incredibly punishing. Ultimately, this game is an mmo, if you are running into a bunker solo and you get killed (outside of bugs), then that is your fault for not having backup. You get good or you die trying. Fortunately CIG is working on fleshing out Arena Commander and introducing PvE FPS soon with the new "spawn closets", so you can work on your fps skills. Admittedly, my friend and I did the xenothreat missions last week, and it has been 4 years give or take since I played SC properly. After failing massively in combat and seeing the inside of the hospital far more than I care to say, I spent 2 hours in arena commander learning how combat works now and completed the missions fine thereafter save for the odd bugs. So shut up and get good or quit the game as it was not meant for you.
@@chazz00999 And what, pray tell, is there to argue? That you clearly don't understand the difference between Planetside 1 & 2? That you yourself do not seem to understand that neither water nor food allow you to operate on a planet with a hot atmosphere? Perhaps we should trade barbs the likes of which third graders could upstage, as your writing has grown clearly more hostile and projective. Though if I were to snipe particular segments of this 'argument' it appears you have a predilection for being punished, unfortunately it appears that CIG are not jockeying for a position to be your bull and dominate your significant other (nor am I). You also never addressed my main point either, quite frankly.
I hope a lot of the tedium at the start of a play session gets resolved once they iron out bed logging and log out mechanics in general. But to be fair, once you are on a space station you get in your ship really quick. It's the planets that are so terrible. I don't go in the PTU anymore because after every patch I'm on a fucking planet again. Planets could make sense as a tutorial for new players if there were missions for beginners that taught them how to interact with the world before they get into a ship but right now these locations are completely pointless. You can't even buy guns in Lorville. They are objectively worse than space stations in every way.
Building interiors are coming soon, along with player habs, and armistice zones are going away -- it will create a pretty cool playscape for bounty hunters tracking targets throughout the landing zones.
You are spot on. The planets, which should be the biggest and most impressive draw of the game, are actually the worst thing about it. The black emptiness of space is somehow far more interesting. Weird, ain't it?
Time sinks are a major issue with this game. The realism obsession needs to stop. Star citizen is a videogame, and should be designed to be fun and engaging, not pointlessly wasting people's time with dumb tedium. What really blows my mind is all the people crying and bitching and moaning that there isn't enough tedium.
SC is not aiming to be "gamey". That's the thing. A lot of backers like me love Star Citizen for NOT BEING a game but simulation of being a space man. I don't want it to be quicker.
@@BuzzCutPsycho It's sad unfortunately and it's caused by idiots which want to make it gamey and cry about every bit of immersive sim parts of the game. It's sad because there are others games out there, why do you want to turn SC in a game with the 101 game design seen everywhere and taught in school?
Star Citizens are just space monkeys, used for testing and it's not a complete game, far from it. Unfortunately testing takes priorities over polish/completed game loops etc. IMO, but it does hurt funding. Some don't realize how difficult it is to do both, while creating a game of this magnitude. CIG is doing what they can, to juggle both sides of the equation. Fun 4 players VS Testing.
@@BuzzCutPsycho It is because of the funding model CIG is using, but if they did not use this funding model a "game" of this magnitude would never be made. No AAA game Co would do it, the investors want the $$$ back too fast. How many people claimed Starfield was the SC killer, it has 100 planetary systems and as many loading screens . Also CIG started W/12 employees in a basement, so to grow to over 1,300 employees in 4 countries in 11 yrs, is not bad for a independent Game Co.
Oh CIG is leaps and bounds ahead of Starfield no doubt. Nobody can do anything like SC, they have a monopoly. I just get concerned they are gonna fumble it. People want SC to win, we all do. I do. But I do get worried.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Yes we do ... We will hold the line ... This is just the starting point ... The foundation has been laid and the tools are in place. Sure adjustments will be made, but we're in for a wild ride. Keep up the great vids. When Squadron 42 hits the streets ... the spice will flow
Ha... I boot up the game all the time and then decide neverminded. Too much hassle to go run one or two dead NPC missions- or if I'm in a fighter to know I have to go through a long ass get out to the station then fly to some random place for 5 min of content then fly back and log off. 20-30 minutes of nothing for 5 min of something.
Cohost seems more casual... i dont mind some timesavers but i definitely don't want a phone game thats picked up for 30min and you get alot done. Imo ps1 was way better then ps2. Ps1 was slower paced too and less casual. Ps2 was more COD like.
I would not personally call the co-host casual. He is currently in one of the top mythic raiding guilds in WoW. I hate WoW, but I respect his hustle. I am not a casual either, but I want more meaningful time sinks over non-meaningful ones, such as what I spoke about. I do not think he expects to get a lot done in 30 minutes; I will point him to this comment, and he can clarify. But I get what you mean and I do not want that either. It is just that it can take 30 minutes to even start playing the game which is the issue. Not that you cannot get anything done in 30 minutes. Also, PS1 was certainly "casual" at the time when compared to other MMO games. It was the first where "levels" did not matter. A BR1 was just as deadly as a BR20, just less versatile. Such a better game than PS2.
True ps1 was more casuals to mmos at the time - time sink wise. But there was a skill gap that made hardcore players better not levels... true my br1 alt with a suppressor could take out a squad but that's player skill. Now ps1 was more hard core shooter wise at that time (way more mechanics, vehs, rules, and thingsto learn by play experience). I personally like punishment of the pu ie forgetting your helmet,food,gas, gear. Part of the game is organization and preparing but it's much softer core to say tarkov. But that's almost too much too.
Couldnt agree more. The pacing and the padding in the game is a complete turn off. It currently takes far too long to get into what for me would be fun gameplay, a lot of the sim elements just push me out of the game. 20-30 minutes to get to a mission after logging in is way too long, especially when you can die in 2 seconds and then like you say you just log out as its not worth it. Gearing up and grabbing your ship should be a quick 5 min job after login or death. I also really hope they change the food and drink system to just providing small buffs rather than being mandatory as its not a part of the game I find fun at all, just more tedium for the sake of it. They also seem to be making some things more tedious than needed in the name of "realism". Why cant we order our ship through the mobi glass? It knows what station we are at. We can order everything with our phone now so its not out of the realm of possibility that in the future the mobi glass connects to the station systems when you are there allowing you to request your ship or buy things from the shops at the station and have gear and items sent straight to your storage and have your ship delivered to the hanger. Keep the shops if you like for those that want to use them but let the rest of us get on with the game.
Next podcast we are talking about food and other stuff doing buffs. I am glad you said this. I even have some takes on how-to incorporating social elements into gameplay.
Coming from DayZ and his finding a friend takes at least 30 minutes in that game, I enjoy not making things easy. And I’d honestly enjoy quantum travel to take longer if there was more to do in your ship. Like instead of just sitting in your pilot seat, I’d love for it to be time for us to do maintenance, while also giving us a huge warning when we get quantum snared so we can run back to our seats prior to our ship being blown up. And I love the transit system… but the trains should be quicker. The trails. Should put us closer to our destination. Like why does it drop me off so far away from the kiosk for retrieving my ship? But ultimately, it’s the performance in cities that keeps me away. I get 40-50fps in a city and it’s still annoying… that and there isn’t a big reason to go. Some people sell stuff there, but it’s better to just sell at stations. And there are the same shops in stations. There need to be events and very unique experiences in cities than stations.
I would ask this - What does adding more time add in terms of difficulty? Quantum at it's current speed makes me get up and go AFK. What does making it longer add? Let me do more things while AFK? If you want the quantum interdiction experience without the pointless time waste you make "lanes" people have to use. Shorter times + important lanes = more interdictions and more content. I guess I am confused as to how adding more time to non interactive things makes the game more hardcore or fun.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I dunno. I just like the journey. I just wish there was more to happen during them though. Like if you encountered random NPC and picked up new missions or events happened when
@@BuzzCutPsycho well I enjoy the journey. But I can definitely agree that it can become repetitive. It would be a great addition if random stuff happened to and from your trip from your bed to your ship. Random NPC doing stuff, providing missions, a lot like red dead redemption did. Or when quantum traveling, I actually like the idea of trade lanes, but it should be more if pick one of these 10 or more routes to get there so somebody with a quantum snare can’t clean up a quarter of the traffic in a system. But also make it so quantum snares happen to people who are not just being lazy. Right now the best way to avoid a quantum snare is to just fly 20km in one direction and then quantum travel. But still make stuff happen during quantum besides snares. Anomalies, stuff in your ship needing repairs, etc. like don’t make these things happen so often it’s a chore, but let there be a chance so we are constantly engaged during the journey. But having to take 20 minutes to find your friend isn’t a concern to me, as long as I enjoy the process there. Games like dayZ does turn people off because it IS so difficult to meet up with a friend, there being no map, no markers, and many new players having no idea about anything let alone how to navigate to their friend without a compass. But DayZ keeps you engaged because there is always the threat of making contact with an unknown player. SC can’t do that exactly, but it kind of can… plus they can make it more enjoyable for those that don’t enjoy a little pain to play
Oh man. There is a whole video just on grinding and how it isn't fun nor even relevant for the MAJORITY. Immersion is good but forced time sinks are not. Grinding is neither a role nor a career, so why do we have these? PVP should be accessible both in terms of the learning curve and time requirements!
100% and it is odd to me that people think adding a trivial tedious grind is the same as adding difficult or challenging content. I want to be challenged but I don't want my time wasted.
I couldn't disagree with you guys more. Making the way through the city, catching the Tram isn't a waste of time. It would be what you had to do if you REALLY were living in that universe. SC isn't your average game. It's a space sim, my 2nd life in space.
It fills me with great joy knowing SC is rapidly moving away from the second life direction and more towards the game direction. Especially with Pyro and the reduced quantum times. Thankfully CIG realizes the timer wasters the minority enjoy aren't good for the game. You can take the scenic route and ride the tram all you want. Most of us are going to be using stations and other quality of life features.
As usually you take is the worst kind of take I could imagine. But that's fine. Different opinions and perspectives and all. Apparently modern wow is an industry trend, Vanilla was totally not a success and multiple hundred hours of battle passes are not the industry trend that literally went out of hand when people actually trying to finish multiple of those simultaneously, but Star Citizen which allows you to respawn directly on your space ship and has carrier type ships for whole organisations to spawn at is wasting to much time on transit. ;-)
Vanilla was a success because it was an easier and more accessible Everquest. It's that simple. It was anything but hard-core compared to the standard. Also. SC has no working carriers and setting a spawn to a ship over writes the spawn on a station and thus wastes more time. Are we playing the same game?
I can tell you don't even play. Nobody uses carrier respawning because they can be one shot by a single light fighter ramming them. All the time and money you spent on loading it up with body armor and weapons for anyone respawning can be undone by one person. When they talk about transit they mean the absurd amount of elevators and trains in the game. There's arguably more train and elevator time gameplay than actually blowing stuff up time in PU.
This is a pretty good episode and it's pretty on par with my experiences, both with Star Citizen and game development or general shifts in videogames and gamers I've seen in general.
Star Citizen in a lot of ways feels too sluggish and too slow, too tedious. The game has too many mechanics that don't add anything, but still need to constantly be updated and made to work with new updates, it's holding them back.
The eating and drinking mechanic you've brought up was one of the first things I've complained about to friends when I started playing last year. It doesn't do anything, it doesn't add anything it doesn't take away anything, it's just one more mechanic that can break one update and then developers will have to look into that again.
Every game developer is different of course, but personally I am very much advocating to rewarding players if you want them to do something instead of punishing them. Staying on the topic of food and drink, they could give you a passive buff, maybe you are a bit more resilient to injuries, or stamina lasts longer. Or maybe you can run a bit faster. If you're well rested, well fed, you'll perform better in combat, people who care will make use of it. There's a lot that they could do instead of making it a chore, if they really want to keep the mechanic.
Worst case if that breaks, people get a permanent buff or the food doesn't do anything at all. But it wouldn't frustrate people. At least... not most people.
This would also open up the opportunity for cooking gameplay to generate different buffs or combinations of buffs, as is commonly seen in other MMOs or RPGs, but don't tell CiG that, at least not yet.
I could list an endless amount of game mechanics, things they could do or should do according to my experiences, but ultimately it's not my game, and I don't want to list complaints or wishes.
I'll say this though, if I look at more recent mechanics they added, like the ammo repooling, that just feels so much better than most of the older mechanics. You get a small UI, it's showing you all the information you need, and then it's done. Everyone's getting the same mechanic too, so nobody can argue it's unfair or unbalanced. The game can really use some more features that feel snappy instead of sluggish.
I hope they fix some of the older mechanics/animations too. I dread operating the vehicle terminal, and I dread sitting down in the pilot's chair of any spaceship, waiting for the thing to turn 180 degrees or lift up or what have you... this feels especially bad when you're in a combat situation and would like your character to act a little more alert. Just let me sit down or get up.
The respawning and the hotkey to take off your helmet to eat and drink without actually taking it off is also a step in the right direction, but the helmet thing is only a partial solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
So, I like some of the new changes they did, but we will see where this goes, we're all in the same boat.
Though I fear that at this point CiG has fallen into the typical "tunnel-vision" trap. Their game works the way it does, they are used to it, but it really shouldn't be that way, and I hope they realize this.
The community could help a lot to provide feedback, but from all I've seen, proper feedback often gets swallowed in waves of complaints and too many people trying to make the game exactly what they want it to be without considering others.
enjoy the pin you earned it, we have some smart people on this channel comments.
What a waste of 60 seconds. What you typed was more meaningless than this comment, some of the mechanics don't do anything, some of them are good, they should make you want to do these mechanics. You said nothing in so many words
The mic quality will be addressed next episode. Also, we're taking suggestions! We write notes on everything given to us.
I had issues with audio in the past, they were fixed when i bought: Sound Blaster AE-5 plus sound card.
Along with Steel Series Arctis Nova 1p and a dongle to split the 3.5mm jack into 1 for microphone and 1 for Headphone audio.
Now, years later i can say it was worth it because it costed me less than 150$ for both products.
Thats how i fixed all my audio issues, recording, podcasts, listening to music was elevated a lot for myself :)
@@mortalkombatfight-clubsofi9637 thanks for this. I will check this out for him. He is in the market for new audio.
Nice choice, Planetside 2 people are probably between the few devs that can understand the challenges with Star Citizen.
Thanks! They are shocking similar right down to the mistakes
I find that in those times where i have a short time to log in, that Arena Commander keeps me entertained quite well!
That is the way for sure
Solid discussion. That whole planet surface -> tram ride -> to ship -> to orbit experience is a great first-time user experience. Scale, wow factor, etc. But once that is done, it really shouldn't be part of the daily gameplay loop. It would be better as a kind of first-time tutorial.
It is a great hook no doubt but once it becomes an annoying standard it gets old fast
Glad you brought this guy on. Planet Side 2 was an amazing game. Star Citizen sells a 890 Jump that you as the capt can not shoot back at other players... In 2024... CIG needs to have a solo feature just like ELITE. Elite at the time asked the players if they wanted an offline solo mode and it was an overwhelming yes. The same thing will need to happen with CIG for this game to last into the future. Oh and to play a single bunker.
I am glad you enjoyed him. He is getting a new mic and we will be doing more of these. We did not expect it to break 1k!
I'm a long time backer. I think you're absolutely right about the pacing of the game and I feel the same way about playing the PU. I've been treating it like a tech demo for years now, I just log in to check out the cool features on patch day and as soon as I run up against the inevitable "kiss the last two hours of gameplay goodbye" moment I just log and uninstall until the next patch.
As for respawning and gearing, I think there has to be a happy middle ground there. It's not a big deal if the shopping part of gearing takes some time, I kind of like wandering about buying supplies. But for the love of god the game needs a loadout system. Let me hit up a locker room in my personal hanger, click the loadout and then I'm geared. You wanna make me physically carry gear into the ship? Fine, but FFS let me put it on at the locker/gun rack by clicking a preset loadout. Having to manually fiddle through the fucking UI every. single. time. is abominable.
A happy medium is for sure what I want you see and I feel like too many people see the suggestion in absolutes only. I want the cost and everything related to purchasing the gear but I want the time expenditure cut out. The time waste is my biggest gripe not the actual loss of items or money. What has always struck me as odd is people would never stand for having to rebuy and reequip a ship each time it is claimed but most are happy to let infantry do just that.
@@BuzzCutPsycho we used to have to re-purchase ship loadouts every time. They walked that back to what we have now. I’d definitely take a checkbox like “INSURE EQUIPMENT” that auto-buys anything I dropped from when it was saved, at local prices, and maybe a brief delay if shit has to ship to me. Maintain the immersion but gimme more convenience.
One thing that’s currently INCONVENIENT but very close to being excellent is the gear system.
What I like:
- shopping around for my favorite armor
- capitalizing on my knowledge of local shops to do so
- the feeling of buying 50 assault rifles and 300 magazines, like I’m actually stocking up
- being able to view all my items anywhere in any storage.
- mixing and matching every piece to style perfection
What I don’t like and how it could be improved:
- preset loadouts to quick equip my favorite armor set, weapon, magazines, medpens
- direct shipping from my hanger to my bedroom to gear up elsewhere
- quick shipping from storage to storage
- gear insurance and auto-buy orders when my stocks get low
- Org shared storage/bank for the love of lobster this is an “mmo”
I roll with a massive org and we sometimes do 60 person events. It’s always the poor marines taking longest to set up.
Presets and shipping to me are an absolute must. I will pay extra to have players or npc deliver the gear I want in bulk
Oh and more org stuff? Yes please. Good comment
The way I look at it is that SC aims to make the "mundane" parts of space interesting. Imagine if you and your friends actually went up to the International Space Station IRL. It'd be a completely mind blowing experience.
In the same way I think eventually just handing around a space station, doing side quests and talking to people would be fun for some people.
I can see that. But it isn't even there yet for that with how much social tools are lacking. Hopefully one day.
it does seem like they are trying to make a suite of games, not just a game. So S42 for normies, AC and Star Marine for gamers, and Star Citizen for me.
@@BuzzCutPsychoseems like the only way, 'hanging around a space station' will work, aside from the need to introduce social tools, is if it becomes an actual MMO with server capacity for large numbers of players.
Planetside 2, i was subbed for some time, promised id get regular game credits, after a few months i asked where my credits were and apparently i needed to click some button. i asked them to give me what i paid for, they refused, i unsubbed and eventually uninstalled. Star citizen has always without fail given me what i paid for. Pretty damning comparison sadly but my money is worth more than "gotcha" tactics. ( sometimes its not even the games fault, it's the respect for the customer ) Great chat fellas, ty.
You are welcome! PlanetSide 2, despite both of us working on it, is objectively one of the worst games ever made and an insult to PlanetSide 1. But none of that was our doing, I swear.
@@BuzzCutPsycho i never really followed the community or development, but i loved the planetside 2 gameplay. whats the TL:DR?
@@jonathaneskew9878 they ignored everything that made PlanetSide 1 good and instead made a BF3 mod and called it PlanetSide 2.
@@BuzzCutPsycho never played 1, and I loved bf3, so that definitely tracks.
I remember Malorn. If I remember he went to Microsoft.
I thought with Theaters of War it was going to take Star Citizen to a new level but it never happened.
Nothing unifies the player base. Great podcast!
Thanks! We plan to have more structured content next.
Sadly, we probably shouldn't expect theatres of war until server meshing due to all the desync issues they encountered during the original evo tests.
@@Billy-bc8pk server meshing doesnt automatically solve every issue, especially not in a confined space as theatres of war, that's not what it is for...
@@DharMahn_ Theatres of war isn't a confined space -- it's combined arms across large areas, but they can use server meshing for the object containers across multiple areas if need be to reduce load and improve on potential desynchronisation, which is precisely why they're waiting until server meshing before re-implementing it.
@@Billy-bc8pk i played ToW. It was a very fun but janky mess. Server meshing is not the fix needed for ToW. The game space, although larger is still confined to a constrained area of space and more importantly a smaller number of assets needing to load, if well defined it should never need more than 1 server. What ToW needed was much more effective lag compensation like interpolation/client prediction and a lot of refining of the animations which are 1 to 1 between 1st and 3rd person which also necessitates more network traffic and a higher sever tick rate.
Missed the heyday of PS2, but played Dark Crusade with an awesome guild that was spawned in Planetside 2.
Good talk and makes me think i missed out by missing peak PS2 with that guild (Praetorian Guard).
Ah I remember PG. Very cool. Yeah you missed a lot but PS1 was better. ;) this cast was just an intro to both of us and we will do more topic focused ones later.
I like the idea of Star Citizen having some heavy, hardcore elements. I do want there to be difficult, rewarding objectives that stress the importance of preparation and survival.
With that said, I don't want every single element of the game to be that way. Playability is going to need to be a major priority in the coming months, especially for when SQ42 is released and the masses start flocking to SC.
100% about hard-core elements. I did focus on time wasters as not being hard-core. I hate them.
Completely agree about SC not being a sim. But it does need a certain amount of plausibility and - most importantly- an internal consistency in order for most players to find it intelligible and relatable. Really no different that any sort of fantasy fiction - there can be 'magical' elements that break from reality (be it actual spells, or near light speed travel) but there also need to be reasonable limitations too, otherwise you run into the problems of games where everyone is a superhero.
Yes. It must have integrity. That is how I would describe it anyway.
I think stuff like food courts and that will be much higher used by orgs events and even when the number of players shoot up.
Like when the full galactic map is open to all of us, say you wanna travel with your org to an unexplored solar system or plan for making a homebase somewhere, can all meet at a RnR and at least it will be more lively I'd say.
I can see that. Or, big org events on capital ships and stuff for meetings. I would like that. But I do want to meet new people and randoms in social areas. I may be all about PvP but I think those are important aspects too.
@BuzzCutPsycho true! I do like these sort of spaces, you've talked about it being out of the game and not affecting the world, but sometimes it's nice to not have to do anything and you can just sit there and do nothing.
Probably why I like going to the prison, sometimes it's like my time away from having to make money and just have a time out.
My take on SC is that the devs and especially designers (not sure if these are the same at CIG and honestly don't care) aren't actually playing the PU, they play on their Dev servers using god mode commands. The tedious tasks we get to experience as normal players they fly by them. And I get it, being a dev myself you want to test whatever you implemented not go through the slog to get there. But having the 'user ecperience' might help them understand how silly and tedious it all becomes sometimes, especially due to all the different bugs outside of our own control that force us to again claim, fly out and jump to join our buddies.
There is also a severe dissonance appearing in the gameplay of different areas of the game; whereas cargo (soon salvage, mining has been broken due to scanning been shit) gets even more realistic and tedious, fps gets the arcade treatment (backpack reloading). How do you explain these 2 opposites? Making FPS convenient and cargo just a timesink. It's like 2 different design foundations that kinda clash in a big way. Can someone make up their mind at CIG and apply a congruent idea of what the game should be?
CIG has an issue with communication, but I'm starting to believe even the communication at CIG internally is a problem. From the outside I see 2 opposite mindsets emerging depending on if its pew pew or not.
I would agree 100% with you and I do not at all think they are playing the PU. If they were they could not honestly, with a straight face, look at what is going on and say "This is fine"
You guys are addressing a thought process that I’ve come around to recently myself. SC is going to have to make some compromises in regards to realism and “being hardcore” in the future as it becomes more of a game in order to accommodate the real life, human needs of its playerbase that has jobs and families and other things that limit how much time they can spend playing.
That’s going to make certain loud minorities in the playerbase very mad (and I would say the current debate on master modes is a preview of this), but it needs to be done to secure success in the market.
I was really pleased to hear this week on SCL that they’re looking at changing logging out so that you log in the same position when returning, whether you used a bed or not. That’s a great first step in this process.
I am glad we're not alone in those thoughts. We have time, we can make time, but my god, SC requires too much time to do tedious nonsense and it sucks. People don't get that. That news from SCL is amazing, btw.
It's still necessary to maintain what it was pitched as for the people drawn to a space-sim with realistic elements, because making it too casual attracts the wrong crowd. It's okay for games to not accommodate everyone, and much like DCS World, it's completely fine if Star Citizen only maintains attracting a specific audience, as we don't need younger or more idle players to become mainstays in the playerbase.
I don't think I would be considered someone on the more hardcore side of things, but I am someone who would prefer SC to stay true to it's more SIM style intentions (even if not a true sim). I think a lot of things just aren't implemented particularly well and are more difficult than they ought to be. I don't really want the core online experience to be Arena Commander. I like going into the game, setting myself up for whatever missions I want to do that session, planning ahead, and going and doing them. I think the barrier might be a bit too steep at the moment given how easy it is to die, or get stuck, etc. However, that doesn't mean I want it to be a pre-game loadout menu where I get dropped into my ship in a hanger. I hope that in the future, you can set up supply lines where you store extra supplies at the locations you frequent so that when you go there, or when you set your spawn there and die, your Time to Quantum (TTQ) is shorter.
I am personally advocating for systems where item selection is one of the ways to avoid tedium. Your character and what you choose to do is informed by the tedium you are ok with and what you're not. I was a tad miffed when they made backpack reloading enabled by default. Not because I like opening my backpack up and moving magazines around, but because I think it's an avenue to create interesting utility items with interesting tradeoffs. I want items to be differentiated by utility and function rather than stat bonuses, and making the game more convenient removes avenues to do that (not saying it's impossible). I don't want items to just be purple = blue++, yellow = purple++, etc. That's incredibly boring and lackluster. I enjoy games that are number go up, but that's not what I want out of Star Citizen.
I'm not a big MMO person, so we'll see what the MMO features shape up to be. SC is honestly the only game where I've ever seriously considered joining an org/guild but that's not why I backed. I backed because I wanted to play the exploration loop. I anticipate playing mostly solo or with a handful of close friends (possibly org mates if it goes that route). For that reason most of the tedium is somewhat irrelevant to me because my entire game loop will be a lot of tedium. A lot of planning, making sure I have supplies and won't get stranded, etc. All for the tiniest chance that I get to be one of the first players to find something. In that sense almost the entire game up to this point I care about only insofar as they are making progress.
I'm happy for people who enjoy mining, people who enjoy refining, and for people who are looking forward to base building, etc. This stuff is cool, but it's just not what I want. I want to plan missions where I have to make sure I don't starve to death out in the middle of nowhere. Where I have to be careful and cognizant of unknown enemies and minimize risk. Preparedness will be my greatest ally and negligence my worst. In that sense managing tedium is what I want, even though I realize that may not be what the player base at large desires. I still have to advocate for the version of SC that I was told would exist when I backed. I think that the focus on strictly space combat has in that sense been a detriment to Star Citizen. The reason some aspects of the game are tedious is because other aspects of the game and other game loops are about managing those things you dislike so much even though they seem unnecessary. That doesn't mean that there aren't massive areas for improvement, and many things can be smoothed out, or made less tedious and still be considered "what I was promised."
Amazing comment.
I've given up on "what was promised" long ago and I don't think that was promised is even possible in this day and age. I think there is a very big difference between preparation and planning and the tedium which we discuss which are really just pointless time sinks. You can accomplish AC style loadouts in SC the same way our ships come with loadouts when claimed. That is what I mean when I mention AC accessibility in the PU. You take the theory and apply it in a way that works for the PU. Same with better respawn options.
Planning is fun. Always has been. But when planning is done to avoid pointless time wasters like the train rides or excessive QT times I begin to take issue. If there is something in that game that doesn't require me to be at attention and allows me to walk away AFK until it completes I wonder why it is there in the first place.
Your comment is very logical and fair. I enjoyed it. I don't have much to comment on in regards to the other bits since I agree. I did however feel compelled to clarify I do want accessibility without the cost of integrity and I think we can get that.
Pretty awesome to hear Malorn's pov. Is the podcast called "Real Talk?"
Yes
Key point you brought up, SC while an MMO, it is also a SIM (SC simulation doesn't necessary have to be simulation of realism, but their sci fi world). It is not a game that fits in typical gaming paradigms. The SIM portion of the game is one of the things that makes it unique. SC is more immersion than MMO, imo. PS2 is not a great comparison in my opinion, let alone other MMO's (Eve, WoW, etc). Obviously the game still has legs even in alpha, so they are doing something right. I personally would have rather this game gone non MMO and been co op with more npc. I don't care about the MMO aspect. I consider myself a good portion of the player base. A lot of people like solo play or only want to play with a few people. Those that want the massive MMO org on org feel with needing massive amounts of players I don't feel represents the majority of the player base.
I am glad you know the difference between SC and SIM. Most people do not and assume SC is meant to be DCS in space.
With each patch and numerous changes, I believe SC inches more towards an "MMOFPS" than people think. The inclusion of infantry combat and combined arms is further solidifying that. It may not have started this way, but it has ended up becoming this way. I feel like the game will move more towards "org vs org" as time goes on, and orgs will end up being the prime movers of the game. Those who do not want that experience will likely live in high sec or low sec space. You may be right; it might not represent the entirety of the player base. But, it represents the most "sticky" part of the player base. In PlanetSide 2, according to metrics, one thing we observed was that players in outfits were likely to be retained in the product far longer than those who flew solo.
I am NOT AT ALL going after you or disparaging what you said. This is a good comment and is a nice inspiration for further talk between Malorn and me. But I think SC is going towards the MMO route, for better or for worse. I believe CIG is now even considering it an MMO.
I do respect players like you, believe it or not. You're also important. And I think both types can co-exist.
@@BuzzCutPsycho FYI - im also an old timer. Love your content. I totally get your points on this topic and agree. As an older player I get all the opinions and respect all the angles. Its an interesting discussion. Now, just because I would rather co op, I also like MMO's too. So my take is not to be dismissive of the MMO aspect. I like those games too. I just feel that what SC wants to accomplish with massive battles that are cinematic and trying to keep players engaged with FPS or ship combat will take years to get in place, get right, and may break what makes it unique. Furthermore, I feel that supporting the level of players you would need for this is prohibitive and at odds with physics. Will they get it to work? Maybe but not at the level that feels good, or it will take 2-3 years. I hope Im wrong. :)
PS2 and more have a lot of non sim aspects which for what they are doing makes sense - one of my buddies is a long timer on that game as well.. Wasn't my bag, - as an artist who appreciates the high fidelity stuff and a certain sci fi feel, I didnt care for the PS aesthetic. Anyhow, respawning in SC for instance would need to be more FPS standard specific if they want to lean into that sort of game loop.
To be candid, I personally love SC for the sim aspect and just being immersed. If I want FPS PVP i'll play a different game that scratches that itch. SC doesnt have the loops that make sense for kill, respawn, kill again. IF they can get someplace in the middle (which I think everyone hopes they can) then I can reconsider. But for now, SC is like your own personal spaceship sim pit, where you get to actually fly around a massive solar system with high fidelity in your model spaceships and pretend you are a space bad ass, nomad, trucker, miner, etc. That to me is why it is fun, cool, and scratches a different itch I dont get from other games. I think SC needs to stay unique in its own lane with some concessions for accessibility as you both mentioned.
That said, for me SC is a here and there game.. meaning I don't play it religiously, but then at this stage I dont play anything religiously. lol. And as far as supporting this game, I am in very deep, but love what its given me. Its simply cool and fun to follow, play here and there, and give me and a few buddies the space immersion I need once in a while. No other game does it quite like they do - Elite too vanilla and restrictive from a FPS perspective, EVE too calculated and not immersive, Starfield no co op or vehicles and Nasa punk is boring, NMS too cartoony. What SC gives totally works for me. Thanks for the time and response. I'm sure I'll see ya around in the verse.
I love the podcast! Maybe someday you can sit down with one of the SC developers and have a real talk with them.
I don't want to beat up the SC devs, but I do want them to answer real questions.
Id love that so we will see
At 42 minutes. Yep, I am put off from multi-crew activities due to the preparation required. Very sim like. Fast travel and fast equipping is easy and a proven success. ARMA, which is a proper simulator does it well with crates at spawn points.
ARMA does a lot right and getting groups to play together is one of those. I really do hate how I dread doing anything with a group. Which sucks since that is my favorite thing to do in games.
One of the big things you're missing is the fact that people paid to be in those classes and then they change drastically. That breeds far more animosity than just classes evolving that you didn't have to sink a lot of money into.
Alpha development game. I get it, but things change. If things did not change I myself would not be here personally.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Oh believe me I know and agree, just as a matter of psychology is what I'm saying. If let's say I got into an MMO and had to buy my class from the start, then the developer goes and dramatically changes how that class functions or it's role and viability and If I don't like it I have to do the free-2-play grind for an extortive amount of ingame currency or shell out more real money to switch I'd be a little more than "annoyed." That's just the way I look at the situation when ship concepts get reimagined into something they weren't pitched as. (See: Cutlass Black)
Was so looking forward to this being released! Excited to hear what you guys have to say.
Very much an introduction. We have more planned and topic focused videos coming.
At 19:45 I disagree. I believe they can have both. A second life and be a space game. SC does have to be just a space fps.
I think both is the potential but the second life part would have to come after the MMO combat part. Ideally, we would have both,. I myself always enjoyed Cantinas in SWG. :D
Wow, a little thoughtful conversation from people that actually know what they’re talking about and are reasonable. For those who “got gud” in a “tech demo” shot themselves in the foot. It sucks but why would you do that for a game in development? This is a testing environment PERIOD and those who make videos with pretty pictures who are frustrated and act like it’s a game to “play” need to move on to a finished game if they can’t get that.
To become masters at something which will change is absurd to me too. You can do it. But don't be shocked when it happens.
First thing i do on a new patch is move all my shit to the station. The most important thing to remember is CR is building HIS game, not ours.
If his game sucks I'm still going to tell him. People who invest time and money into a vision tend to care about good feedback when that vision isn't really clear or possible.
Good leaders take and consider all feedback.
For your tastes.
I love what CR is doing and I play it exactly for what you don't like in SC. 🙄
I agree that in the present state of the game, landing zones seem to have no other purpose other than being a timesink and an opportunity to showcase the games sense of scale.
However the key phrase here is ‘present state of the game”. CIG are constantly giving us hints in a variety of formats that the game we are playing now might be completely different from the final product game that they are actually working towards.
Master Modes is good example of the difference between the player base expectations of the game they had been playing and the game the devs are working towards.
The landing zone are obviously designed with future gameplay in mind. For example CIG have teased us in a variety of ship ads and other videos that bounty hunting in the cities is going to be a thing though the present game mechanics like armistice zones would seem to preclude it. But that is point. Again CIG have both hinted and stated openly that reputation will open and close various forms of gameplay and it’s not inconceivable for instance that a high rep in security or bounty hunting would allow the player to use weapons within the armistice zones. This form of gameplay gives players reasons to visit the landing zones and a variety of other gameplay devices such as shops and guildhalls offering reputation based rewards could easily be implemented to make landing zones a hub of gameplay rather than just the places you can’t wait to get out of.
No doubt stuff will change. Did you see the big news about spawns?
@@BuzzCutPsycho no but now you’ve made me put down my rum and have a look.
Hopefully the shit they talked about in the latest SCL where at some point in the future you'll log in where you logged out at as a persistent player location instead becoming a fucking magician and teleporting into a bed, that'd help somewhat with the whole game not really respecting your time with all the travel you need to do within cities. And is.. almost exclusively why I make it a point not to ever be on a planet (which should be more of a draw) when I log out and do it on a station or Grim.
It just has a lot of these little time wasters that add up pretty rapidly if you have to take into account more than yourself, cause now you're waiting on the other guys to get set up if they aren't already. Quantum Travel times is.. whatever to me, it's hard to say how I'm going to feel about it until the new quantum experience comes in.
I think that is a major first step into changing the way to be more accessible. The log in / log out thing works. It opens doors up to more changes, like respawns and the like. It is only up from here.
You hit the nail on the head. The time wasters get even worse when you bring more people into it. Trying to run an org event is a major hassle and often not even worth it as a result.
pft i only just found this, i thought i was subbed ??.. must of been another chan you was on lol
great cast btw keep it up!
Glad you found it! We will improve our next one 100% I promise. This was a learning experience.
They should add text bubbles over players. So you can identify who's typing in global. Basically, treat text chat like a proxy voice. Voip should also broadcast in proxy unless you are using specific helmets or comes. Add eavesdropping mechanics. Unless you are purposely using in game messaging to privately communicate. Party chat and DMs should be private.
The party system can be improved by when forming a party in the lobby, everyone should enter the server with the party leaders location.
Saved loadouts for personal inventory. Doesn't need to be extreme. It needs to be easier to get to "start." Should not be more than 3 clicks to get set up and go as long as your inventory can support it or then items are available at your locations.
Another factor of respawning is that it should not conflict with playing with others. I think selectable spawn points should be a party feature, like you are networked, and that you can spawn at any available locations within in that network. Say if you party up with me, and i have selected my ship's med bed as a spawn point, you should beable to spawn at that medbed because you are networked with me. As if you selected a nearby station, I could respawn there. Treat it as you can only select one respawn location per player, but networking as a party becomes a value added in options.
I have always liked the idea of floating bubbles. Realism be damned!
Party system is terrible now and ANYTHING would be an improvement. Good suggestion.
Saved loadouts are a major focus for me. Ships have it, but infantry don't?
Party network is also good. Or, if the party leader could force people's respawn points for events or whatever. I know PlanetSide 1 had that. Anything to keep the party together, like you suggested, would also be great. I just want groups to be able to stay together easier. It promotes good gameplay and friendships.
I would wish UA-cam would stop eating my comments
1) The original concept of Star Citizen is more to Day Z and Rust. The player would operate their own Server and have people come in to populate it. That was the original thought.
2) People have rose colored glasses thinking difficulty back in the day was fun. Games were make or break on difficulty. It had to be balanced, and From Software almost went belly up until Dark Souls 2 became a cult classic hit. Only reason Elden Ring exists is in part due to Twitch and people playing DS2 and 3 with their bases mocking them for dying.
3) Food and Drink in the game serve no purpose other than maintenance. Other games typically you eat and drink where this mechanic is placed is to regenerate stamina and prevent dehydration that can cause issues during gunfights. No word on if this is going to be a thing in Star Citizen.
4) Death of a Spaceman needs to be scrapped or heavily altered. The gaming public at large has spoken that perma death games are hyper niche. Its why Day Z's overall progression is at a snails pace, people dont want to be hassled with recreation of something. To those arguing it'd hurt medic gameplay.....add more tools to medic gameplay other than a heal gun.
5) Roberts has a choice right now. Go towards the MMO aspect and be the first legit space MMO or stay with the original concept of Sandbox thus allowing anyone to run their own servers (and if you ever played rust its a legit crapshoot).
There's a lot of core concepts that can stay...like the travel from planet to space (and vice versa). However there also needs to be resources on space stations as some may choose to be more space bound vs planet bound. That also means actually spawning on a space station if one chooses.
I agree with so much of what you said im gonna pin it. Well done.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I think what people should understand. This is Robert's game, not ours...we just populate it. At the end of the day Roberts will design the game in a way that will appeal to the larger audience vs the niche. Those who are complaining about MM really should understand we've yet to experience the Star Engine's true physics system and MM is built to take advantage of that system.
At 39 minutes. It would be better if the law systems and respawn systems were delayed and we had the ability to continue engaging with other players. Imagine of security services/fines and death of a space man consequence were delayed 24 hours. Perhaps our respawn options and missions access are impacted on a delayed basis.
I can see that. Right now the law system is so binary it is not only unbelievable but also unengaging. I would love to do a heist and know mass security forces are enroute to my position. Also having NPCs hunt me down too.
@@BuzzCutPsycho how odd, that it take 10 to 20 minutes to get to a mission objective but the law system is instant! So much for immersion. I prefer a reputation system over a law system.
@@andrewkok3467 reputation is the main thing i am looking for it and also opens up the way for a ton of new things as well as reasons to work for and against certain factions
Really enjoyed this. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it! More topic focused ones to come. I just wanted to introduce is to everyone.
Games which are too difficult to learn or too grindy will eventually sink. A good game has good in-game helpers, the systems are functionally relevant and the grind-for-access/content or pay-for-acces/content is balanced.
Easy to learn and difficult to master will always be my favorite type of game. Something I can get but over time practice at and excell in. SC is getting there with MM.
i feel like realism gets confused for immersion
I would totally agree
hype is real still for me, although i been following the project and chipping in a few bucks every now and then since 2014.
Its still real for me
@buzzcutpsycho You called it regarding respawns! Major changes with Medical Beds and Respawns forthcoming in 3.23.1.
My god I did. New podcast coming out about it soon!
I guess you might get Wrel on the pod sometime ;)
No he is a moron.
I remember, once, we all were Terran.
We are all Terran
Someone posted a screenshot in discord of a 24 hour prison sentence. Just for killing NPCs. And im left wondering, how does this make sense? Almost every time ive had a CS its by accidently killing an npc OR or a game bug. And when that happens, i might get angry and end up with a 7 or 9 hour prison sentence. So i wait until bed time then i turn myself in to do my time while im asleep. But 24 hours? Why? Yeah i know u can do "things" to make it faster or escape but thats not what i logged on to do. So why would i bother?
You would not bother. Most do not. They either log out and do something else or go play an alt. Prison is such a weird system and 27+ hours is insane.
Loved the new pwad kast.
Ty
IMO it wouldn’t be so bad if you could set your respawn via your mobiglass instead of having to land, run to the hospital then set it at the terminal
That too. Kind of makes sense too, doesn't it? One of many possible solutions. I will include this in our next talk when we get to respawns and other such things. This is not a bad idea.
Eve Online almost fell into the same station problem that is really a plague in Star Citizen. There is no point in walking around in stations in the spaceship game unless you are boarding and taking it over which I doubt is coming anytime soon.
You're right and I remember hearing about that. SC is making a lot of the same mistakes others either did or avoided.
I kind of agree with most of this but the main problem with SC is all the different variables and things that are not in the game. SC right now is not a game I think that is playable everyday but I believe it will be with in the next year. I have just taken a year off playing it because I said to myself I would not play anymore until the sort out the star map. I had a blast playing other games and feel this is the key. Most of the complaining about the game I hear (which is legitimate) reminds of a child standing buy the oven pulling there mother's apron "Is the cake ready yet". We all want cake.
We all want cake. I agree. This cake is pretty big, and is taking a lot of time. I think by every other game pretty much being "bland" on the MMO front is why this game even has a chance. It really is the only new thing.
The only reason you are having to do the summoning the ships each session is because you get reset to the nearest space station/city when you log, or last visited or what ever. Eventually you'll be able to logout and in wherever you are and this was mentioned on Fridays Q&A with the devs.
Honestly, I think this game isn't for you frankly since you want the immersive feature replaced with fast travel. The whole point is that you have to think about what you're doing logistically.
Quantum travel is variable between the ship components. There are faster QDs and slower QDs but they come with trade offs such as increased fuel consumption.
If you've played EVE online, you'll find that people are localised to a few solar systems at best. The same will apply to Star Citizen whereby unless you are going on specific missions or cargo etc, you will be staying around 1 or 2 planets.
So essentially, a lot of your complaints are down to the fact that it's alpha with unfinished features and with bugs as to why you are repeating the same tasks over and over again going to respawn your ship etc.
I get the impression that neither of you have watched any of the development videos. It doesn't help that it's scattered across years of videos, but even if you watched the dev videos regularly, you'd understand the vision of the game more because all your criticisms seem to be on things devs are well aware of and are going to be worked on eventually.
One does not need to see years upon years of visionary pandering to realize that every now-and-again that its good to remind developers that some features do not and will not survive first contact with reality.
For example it can be assumed that many, many backers did not sign up for a 30 minute loop upon re-spawn when trying to ground pound as infantry, the process for which (even when staged to be closer to a fight/objective/event) is still to this very day chore upon needless chore. An example of a fluid loop was given in the video (planeside 1) where respawning was:
Wake up>Walk 10 feet to terminal>Select gear>Run Outside> Play game. If we contrast this with the worst case infantry scenario (Spawning on a planet) it looks more like:
Wake up>Take off worthless medical gown>run to & ride public transit> Purchase chest rig, Leg armor, Arm armor, helmet & flight suit if your feeling spicy that day> Purchase ammo> Purchase Meds> purchase weapons> purchase Multi Tool>Purchase food/water> Equip gear> ride public transit> Spawn ship>Wait for ship>Call ATC> Exit atmosphere> QT to destination (or nearest point you can reach)>Play game.
At what point do these necessary steps become chores? At what point is it 'ok' to call BS on gameplay facets that will only add to the list of chores such as the concept of 'death of a spaceman'?
@@TheSpoonalot If I wanted to play planetside 2, I would have kept playing after trying out the game for an hour several years ago. If i wanted to play COD or battleifled with instant respawns, I would have bought those games, instead, I have never owned a single one. But star citizen with its immersion, the planning and logistics as a player that you have to do is what is appealing and has always been appealing. You newer guys though clearly aren't interested in this game and have played it, don't like its vision and want to change it into generic FPS shooter trash. You should have done your research beforehand.
I've been a backer for over 8 years now....back when I first signed up in the 2.x patches, I was fully aware of how punishing this game was meant to be. In fact, it has become less punishing since there is a downstate now allowing other players to heal you to a degree. Along with the rework of "death of a spaceman" so you aren't creating in a sense a new character each time. Medical gameplay has been expanded as such that it is a viable and necessary gameplay loop for combat. Not that it's a bad thing, the new medical gameplay loop is much better and works well whilst incapacitating someone in combat, and allowing squamates to revive if there is time at a weakened state.
But it's clear neither of the 2 people on the podcast have an idea of why the food/drink is important. It's part of resource management and means that people can't just stand around in the open on a planet that is 200+ degrees for hours on end in their environmental suit meaning they will be forced to consider the logistics of an operation and factor in those variables in any operation. Same with people in light and medium fighters where their operation effectiveness is drastically limited. A trade off for being in a dedicated combat ship compared to a 300 series.
This game is full of trade offs which most of you don't understand or can't grasp the simple concept of. You have a super hornet, great at combat, but short range and will need a carrier. Compare that to the 300 series which will have its ass handed to it, but is able to operate for longer periods of time without needing to resupply. Ship components all come with their trade offs, check erkul to see them. Higher fuel consumption for faster travel. Higher em signature etc. Once you grasp these basic concepts, then you'll start to understand the game. This game is not some crappy fps shooter, it's not Elite Dangerous, it's not No Man's Sky. It's more comparable to EVE online which at least when I played 15 years ago was incredibly punishing.
Ultimately, this game is an mmo, if you are running into a bunker solo and you get killed (outside of bugs), then that is your fault for not having backup. You get good or you die trying. Fortunately CIG is working on fleshing out Arena Commander and introducing PvE FPS soon with the new "spawn closets", so you can work on your fps skills. Admittedly, my friend and I did the xenothreat missions last week, and it has been 4 years give or take since I played SC properly. After failing massively in combat and seeing the inside of the hospital far more than I care to say, I spent 2 hours in arena commander learning how combat works now and completed the missions fine thereafter save for the odd bugs.
So shut up and get good or quit the game as it was not meant for you.
@@chazz00999 You seem upset.
@@TheSpoonalot ah, typical response when someone has no argument. You should quit star citizen and go and play CoD.
@@chazz00999 And what, pray tell, is there to argue? That you clearly don't understand the difference between Planetside 1 & 2? That you yourself do not seem to understand that neither water nor food allow you to operate on a planet with a hot atmosphere? Perhaps we should trade barbs the likes of which third graders could upstage, as your writing has grown clearly more hostile and projective.
Though if I were to snipe particular segments of this 'argument' it appears you have a predilection for being punished, unfortunately it appears that CIG are not jockeying for a position to be your bull and dominate your significant other (nor am I).
You also never addressed my main point either, quite frankly.
i really hate the new ship ui and ui markers, incredibly ugly and much more arcade-y. really hope we can eventually have an option for the old one.
That or to turn them off
@@BuzzCutPsycho that too
I hope a lot of the tedium at the start of a play session gets resolved once they iron out bed logging and log out mechanics in general. But to be fair, once you are on a space station you get in your ship really quick. It's the planets that are so terrible. I don't go in the PTU anymore because after every patch I'm on a fucking planet again.
Planets could make sense as a tutorial for new players if there were missions for beginners that taught them how to interact with the world before they get into a ship but right now these locations are completely pointless. You can't even buy guns in Lorville. They are objectively worse than space stations in every way.
Building interiors are coming soon, along with player habs, and armistice zones are going away -- it will create a pretty cool playscape for bounty hunters tracking targets throughout the landing zones.
You are spot on. The planets, which should be the biggest and most impressive draw of the game, are actually the worst thing about it. The black emptiness of space is somehow far more interesting. Weird, ain't it?
God I hope so.
Time sinks are a major issue with this game. The realism obsession needs to stop. Star citizen is a videogame, and should be designed to be fun and engaging, not pointlessly wasting people's time with dumb tedium.
What really blows my mind is all the people crying and bitching and moaning that there isn't enough tedium.
I often what those people do. Do they have jobs? Family? Other hobbies? I do not get it.
SC is not aiming to be "gamey". That's the thing.
A lot of backers like me love Star Citizen for NOT BEING a game but simulation of being a space man.
I don't want it to be quicker.
It is moving more towards gamey every patch man
@@BuzzCutPsycho
It's sad unfortunately and it's caused by idiots which want to make it gamey and cry about every bit of immersive sim parts of the game.
It's sad because there are others games out there, why do you want to turn SC in a game with the 101 game design seen everywhere and taught in school?
Star Citizens are just space monkeys, used for testing and it's not a complete game, far from it.
Unfortunately testing takes priorities over polish/completed game loops etc. IMO, but it does hurt funding. Some don't realize how difficult it is to do both, while creating a game of this magnitude. CIG is doing what they can, to juggle both sides of the equation. Fun 4 players VS Testing.
Agreed. But they also market it as a game as a service. So it's a bit more of a game than they lead on sadly.
@@BuzzCutPsycho It is because of the funding model CIG is using, but if they did not use this funding model a "game" of this magnitude would never be made. No AAA game Co would do it, the investors want the $$$ back too fast. How many people claimed Starfield was the SC killer, it has 100 planetary systems and as many loading screens . Also CIG started W/12 employees in a basement, so to grow to over 1,300 employees in 4 countries in 11 yrs, is not bad for a independent Game Co.
Oh CIG is leaps and bounds ahead of Starfield no doubt. Nobody can do anything like SC, they have a monopoly. I just get concerned they are gonna fumble it. People want SC to win, we all do. I do. But I do get worried.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Yes we do ... We will hold the line ... This is just the starting point ... The foundation has been laid and the tools are in place. Sure adjustments will be made, but we're in for a wild ride. Keep up the great vids. When Squadron 42 hits the streets ... the spice will flow
Ha... I boot up the game all the time and then decide neverminded. Too much hassle to go run one or two dead NPC missions- or if I'm in a fighter to know I have to go through a long ass get out to the station then fly to some random place for 5 min of content then fly back and log off. 20-30 minutes of nothing for 5 min of something.
30 minutes or more of prep for 10 minutes or less of fun isn't a good trade
Cohost seems more casual... i dont mind some timesavers but i definitely don't want a phone game thats picked up for 30min and you get alot done. Imo ps1 was way better then ps2. Ps1 was slower paced too and less casual. Ps2 was more COD like.
I would not personally call the co-host casual. He is currently in one of the top mythic raiding guilds in WoW. I hate WoW, but I respect his hustle. I am not a casual either, but I want more meaningful time sinks over non-meaningful ones, such as what I spoke about. I do not think he expects to get a lot done in 30 minutes; I will point him to this comment, and he can clarify. But I get what you mean and I do not want that either. It is just that it can take 30 minutes to even start playing the game which is the issue. Not that you cannot get anything done in 30 minutes.
Also, PS1 was certainly "casual" at the time when compared to other MMO games. It was the first where "levels" did not matter. A BR1 was just as deadly as a BR20, just less versatile. Such a better game than PS2.
True ps1 was more casuals to mmos at the time - time sink wise. But there was a skill gap that made hardcore players better not levels... true my br1 alt with a suppressor could take out a squad but that's player skill. Now ps1 was more hard core shooter wise at that time (way more mechanics, vehs, rules, and thingsto learn by play experience). I personally like punishment of the pu ie forgetting your helmet,food,gas, gear. Part of the game is organization and preparing but it's much softer core to say tarkov. But that's almost too much too.
Couldnt agree more. The pacing and the padding in the game is a complete turn off. It currently takes far too long to get into what for me would be fun gameplay, a lot of the sim elements just push me out of the game. 20-30 minutes to get to a mission after logging in is way too long, especially when you can die in 2 seconds and then like you say you just log out as its not worth it. Gearing up and grabbing your ship should be a quick 5 min job after login or death. I also really hope they change the food and drink system to just providing small buffs rather than being mandatory as its not a part of the game I find fun at all, just more tedium for the sake of it.
They also seem to be making some things more tedious than needed in the name of "realism". Why cant we order our ship through the mobi glass? It knows what station we are at. We can order everything with our phone now so its not out of the realm of possibility that in the future the mobi glass connects to the station systems when you are there allowing you to request your ship or buy things from the shops at the station and have gear and items sent straight to your storage and have your ship delivered to the hanger. Keep the shops if you like for those that want to use them but let the rest of us get on with the game.
Next podcast we are talking about food and other stuff doing buffs. I am glad you said this. I even have some takes on how-to incorporating social elements into gameplay.
Coming from DayZ and his finding a friend takes at least 30 minutes in that game, I enjoy not making things easy. And I’d honestly enjoy quantum travel to take longer if there was more to do in your ship. Like instead of just sitting in your pilot seat, I’d love for it to be time for us to do maintenance, while also giving us a huge warning when we get quantum snared so we can run back to our seats prior to our ship being blown up.
And I love the transit system… but the trains should be quicker. The trails. Should put us closer to our destination. Like why does it drop me off so far away from the kiosk for retrieving my ship?
But ultimately, it’s the performance in cities that keeps me away. I get 40-50fps in a city and it’s still annoying… that and there isn’t a big reason to go. Some people sell stuff there, but it’s better to just sell at stations. And there are the same shops in stations. There need to be events and very unique experiences in cities than stations.
I would ask this - What does adding more time add in terms of difficulty? Quantum at it's current speed makes me get up and go AFK. What does making it longer add? Let me do more things while AFK? If you want the quantum interdiction experience without the pointless time waste you make "lanes" people have to use. Shorter times + important lanes = more interdictions and more content. I guess I am confused as to how adding more time to non interactive things makes the game more hardcore or fun.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I dunno. I just like the journey. I just wish there was more to happen during them though. Like if you encountered random NPC and picked up new missions or events happened when
@@BuzzCutPsycho well I enjoy the journey. But I can definitely agree that it can become repetitive. It would be a great addition if random stuff happened to and from your trip from your bed to your ship. Random NPC doing stuff, providing missions, a lot like red dead redemption did. Or when quantum traveling, I actually like the idea of trade lanes, but it should be more if pick one of these 10 or more routes to get there so somebody with a quantum snare can’t clean up a quarter of the traffic in a system. But also make it so quantum snares happen to people who are not just being lazy. Right now the best way to avoid a quantum snare is to just fly 20km in one direction and then quantum travel. But still make stuff happen during quantum besides snares. Anomalies, stuff in your ship needing repairs, etc. like don’t make these things happen so often it’s a chore, but let there be a chance so we are constantly engaged during the journey.
But having to take 20 minutes to find your friend isn’t a concern to me, as long as I enjoy the process there. Games like dayZ does turn people off because it IS so difficult to meet up with a friend, there being no map, no markers, and many new players having no idea about anything let alone how to navigate to their friend without a compass. But DayZ keeps you engaged because there is always the threat of making contact with an unknown player. SC can’t do that exactly, but it kind of can… plus they can make it more enjoyable for those that don’t enjoy a little pain to play
Oh man. There is a whole video just on grinding and how it isn't fun nor even relevant for the MAJORITY. Immersion is good but forced time sinks are not. Grinding is neither a role nor a career, so why do we have these? PVP should be accessible both in terms of the learning curve and time requirements!
100% and it is odd to me that people think adding a trivial tedious grind is the same as adding difficult or challenging content. I want to be challenged but I don't want my time wasted.
WaaWaa did nothing wrong
Except be bad at the game LOLOL I'm kidding or am i?
@@BuzzCutPsycho in his defence, they nerfed the canister lol
I couldn't disagree with you guys more. Making the way through the city, catching the Tram isn't a waste of time. It would be what you had to do if you REALLY were living in that universe. SC isn't your average game. It's a space sim, my 2nd life in space.
How come everyone in this universe stands on furniture t posing?
@BuzzCutPsycho that's the worst part of the game to me. When server meshing co es that's supposed to take care of the issue.
It fills me with great joy knowing SC is rapidly moving away from the second life direction and more towards the game direction. Especially with Pyro and the reduced quantum times. Thankfully CIG realizes the timer wasters the minority enjoy aren't good for the game. You can take the scenic route and ride the tram all you want. Most of us are going to be using stations and other quality of life features.
As usually you take is the worst kind of take I could imagine. But that's fine. Different opinions and perspectives and all.
Apparently modern wow is an industry trend, Vanilla was totally not a success and multiple hundred hours of battle passes are not the industry trend that literally went out of hand when people actually trying to finish multiple of those simultaneously, but Star Citizen which allows you to respawn directly on your space ship and has carrier type ships for whole organisations to spawn at is wasting to much time on transit. ;-)
Vanilla was a success because it was an easier and more accessible Everquest. It's that simple. It was anything but hard-core compared to the standard.
Also. SC has no working carriers and setting a spawn to a ship over writes the spawn on a station and thus wastes more time. Are we playing the same game?
I can tell you don't even play. Nobody uses carrier respawning because they can be one shot by a single light fighter ramming them. All the time and money you spent on loading it up with body armor and weapons for anyone respawning can be undone by one person.
When they talk about transit they mean the absurd amount of elevators and trains in the game. There's arguably more train and elevator time gameplay than actually blowing stuff up time in PU.