The Real Story Behind How Our New Tacoma Broke & How Toyota Plans To Fix Yours!
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- ( www.allTFL.com ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our TFLstudios content, from news to videos and our podcasts! After our 2024 Toyota Tacoma broke on the trail three months ago, Roman has a detailed conversation with chief engineer Sheldon Brown about what went wrong and what Toyota's doing to correct the issue.
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#toyota #truck #interview - Авто та транспорт
Toyota ironically increased the cost of the truck while diminishing quality of the product
They have to pad themselves for all the repairs they will have to pay under warranty.
Absolutely agree. It's a shame that car manufacturer's put consumers through this. Why are we paying for poor quality vehicles?
Yes no Toyota in history ever broke even once. My old 2014 Taco had 3 warranty repairs before 36k miles.
@@danielrn133 If Toyotas mindset was building a quality truck, they would have made the differential strong enough for any setting and anticipate user error when selecting application…. they take the longest to redesign with the expectations they test and redesign a superior quality product
What I got out of this is the design is similar but the differential can't handle the increased torque of this motor. So they will use "software" as a governor of such to reduce energy to the wheels as its already too late to beef up the the design of the front diff. And this being a non hybrid with less torque. Really looking like the design is under built. The engineer admitted they will have to limit that torque with software. In a public relations statement he tries not to admit as much but when one dissects through all the word salad of this guy its points to the underpinnings being under built all day long and twice on Sundays. And what about all the reports of the rear diff overheating? Does this not have a proper trans intercooler?
Toyota wouldn’t do any of this for anyone but a UA-cam channel to save face. Regular customers would likely be denied warranty without any communication whatsoever.
Look at Truck King, a smaller UA-camr being instantly blamed by Toyota for their Tacoma breaking.
He obviously money shifted that truck. Most transmission will explode when shifting from fifth to first and dumping the clutch lol
This
💯
These guys have zero credibility to me in this case with Toyota
What I just heard boils down to: we won't make it stronger, we will limit torque and capability.
IMHO, not a good answer.
What i thought too fix will be a software update because driveline can't take it.
Exactly
Sounds like the drivetrain is designed to the bare minimum.
Spec'd the drivetrain to the old taco's with less weight and less power. Snap.
exceeded design by 1.7% is what I heard, that's pretty minimal.
Unfortunately, inflation has made them change to cheaper suppliers. This is the end result.
@@ryanb8736it's the same part that was in the 3rd Gen. It's not a "cheaper supplier."
They had insufficient margin in that design.
Toyota basically said they built a weak 4wd system.
no
If a 1.7% higher than rated load or force can break a part mechanically, then that part is undersized. What happened to safety margins?
They forget what factor of safety means. I'd hate to see what the fatigue and wear duration is on a part that can't handle 1% over max torque.
Yes, it is stock, and it can't handle the default tire.
You can't fix that with a software release, unless you take even more torque away, a lot more! Not very functional!
Truck King just dropped a video where they broke a 6-speed Taco, they noted that the manual transmission Tacoma is rated at eight fewer foot pounds of torque than the automatic. They said the Toyota engineer told them that the transmission did not have The torque capacity for the whole number. So 8 lb is going to make that big of a difference? Tells me that the transmission is too weak to begin with with zero safety margin.
@@humorss there was no traction tires were not a factor. it sent torque to a wheel that had the brakes clamped shut.
THAT’S the answer. “We’re going to neuter our truck so they don’t break” 😂
Not something you need to worry about....but TFL had it happen doing much lighter off-roading than Toyota markets their Tacoma for.
You didn't pay attention. It was a traction problem because of the ice that contributed to this case in the programming of the mts system that led to the failure. Too much brake and torque at that specific programming that broke it.
@@beexiong2995 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
@@beexiong2995 cope and shill harder
That's fine... Stay ignorant@@96kylar
@@beexiong2995I want to translate:
to less quality in important parts, Toyota is only for Roads, not Offroads😅
my old GM Tahoe is not perfect, but it never failed offroad or towing 😅
So Toyota needs to hire UA-camrs to test thier trucks instead of engineers for durability testing haha
Funny thing: I don't see any of their test models breaking. Just the production trucks.
@doom4067 it is called real world test. Your engineer isn't going to drive like an everyday american.
It's become where the engineers are pressured to pass it with low quality components and try NOT to break it to gain passes and move production along ...then the real worlder breaks it
Years ago you'd say this was the opposite....when they're name was worth they're rip off resale prices....
This is the modern day philosophy of most brands now....even ones who's names people swore by ..
@@cheesecakemilkshake8043 Unfortunately engineers are not in control of whether anything gets the stamp of approval, it's accounting. Engineers by de facto operating DNA want to Overdesign a product to be as tough and venerable as modern materials will allow. What happens in modern times is the bean counters say "We need to hit this price quotient for 900,000 parts, and your design is too expensive. Bring it back when you can produce it for .15 cents less." Sometimes it's a complete redesign, sometimes it's a material exchange from a good, strong alloy to cast garbage.
They’re assembled in Mexico. Not sure how the engineers test them
‘We don’t endorse OR SUPPORT putting larger tires on a Tacoma” - Toyota
Was kind of weird how he brought that up unprompted. Very telling unfortunately.
No manufacturer does unless it's a specific special model like a pro or trailhunter. Thats how they make epa numbers 😂. They won't purposely say we built this truck with 13 mpg in mind
That big tire's gonna multiply resistance at the tire all of a sudden it's a tire brake. Snap!
Do they know who buys their product?? I think their sales are gonna drop hardcore. Starting with the tundra. Next will be the Tacoma..
Meanwhile, Jeep designed the JL/JT with the expectation that the owner would put 35s -37s on it.
you shouldn't be complaining. Now toyota offers a truck attached to their 11 inch computer screen. Everyone asked for it.
You mean 14 inch
I actually miss my CD player.
Let's not shift blame. It's not the interior designers fault. It the engineers n accountants that designed the engine n tranny
@@Revy8 following logic chains is not not that hard. Company allocates certain amount of money for new model development. When more money is spent on 14 inch screens and gimmicks inside your cabin, less money goes to things you don’t see or care about until they break , like transmission.
Love this, design it for minimum use, build it in Mexico, cut cost and increase price. If this is not a recipe for success I don’t know what is.
They have been manufacturing in Mexico for nearly 20 yrs
@@psynurse then it shouldn’t be shit with plastic creaky interior then
I worked for Continental Teves when they originally tried moving automotive brake foundation production to Mexico. It was a disaster. Quality Control, pride of craftsmanship, attention to detail of workers on the line, reporting issues immediately before they get down the line, personally removing damaged/subpar piece parts from your supply rather than installing them and saying nothing…on and on. Precision manufacturing & meeting even basic ISO 9000 production quality wasn’t possible b/c no one had ever been taught that. Shut the whole place down after less than 2 yrs.
@@psynurseI think the point he’s trying to make is that they keep doing things to decrease the cost of the truck (lesser quality parts and cheaper labor) but ask more than anyone for a midsize truck. It is less capable for payload, power, towing vs other manufacturers and still costs more. Upsetting (3rd gen owner here)
You can't teach a whole population of workers a concept so foreign to them.
He keeps saying transmission because thats your next big problem
This was my thought too. Especially since they claim they had to de-tune the manual transmission several HP because it was exceeding its rating
It's already happened, there's another channel that's had problems
A bit of a Freudian slip on his part
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS. Works every time.
Just claim user error. Thats what they did.
@@ryanb8736 apparently a couple inches of snow, a little ice, not much of a stress on the 4x4 system when in these conditions is Toyota’s krptonite
Why not? If it’s good enough for government.
@pathunter7003 little friction from the tires but lots of torque from engine together with braking from traction control. It was a low friction event but not a low stress event
My 97 4 runner doesn’t have these problems
I must express my disapproval of the recent explanation given for the component failure in the off-road vehicle, citing the conditions as being too tough. In my opinion, these conditions were normal and standard for off-road use, and the vehicle should not have broken under such circumstances. It's concerning that a vehicle designed for rugged terrain cannot withstand typical off-road challenges. This raises serious questions about the reliability and durability of the vehicle's design and construction.
Right. His rare instance described was a very typical situation.
Toyota under built the front differential and is blaming TFL…
This failure is going to keep used prices up for a long time and sell a lot of Frontier's, ZR2s, and Jeeps.
They seem to be advertising that the TRD off road works fine as long as you don't take it off road.
But they exceeded it by 1.7%! 😂😂
Between this and the Tundra engines destroying themselves, it seems modern Toyota's reliablity is pretty suspect.
Corollas a lot worse than they used to be
Wow. A de-tune in 4lo is their answer. Not the same Toyota that built my 80 Series.
I think the 80 series was peak Toyota 4x4. Everything else has been inferior. I guess that explains why the '80s values keep going up, I've been keeping my eyes open for a while and now it seems like you need 20k to for a decent unlocked version. My buddy in CA bought his rust-free triple locked 93 6 years ago for 6.5k, I'm so jealous.
Almost every truck limits throttle input in 4Lo. I’ve tuned 3-4 trucks from a diesel Jeep to and F150 to a GX460 and now my LX570. All of them have different maps for 4Lo
@@Jay-me7gw those are all newer vehicles and probably automatics. Toyotas of old you could red line clutch drop in 4 low and not have issues.
@@atodaso1668 Maybe if it was a cable driven throttle but even manual trucks with electronic throttle can be torque limited.
Also, the trucks you were talking about are already detuned. My 22RE 4Runner made like 7 ft-lbs of torque.
@@trailrunnah8886 IDK. The 100 and 200 series are still extremely rugged trucks and extremely capable despite going to IFS. The diffs, tie rods and CV’s on a 200 series are really stout and you don’t hear to much about failures like on Tacoma/4Runner/GX.
And not only that but they are a lot more versatile. You can hook up an 8000 lb trailer to a 200 and tow it well. The 80 series can’t do that.
Go check out the clutch dropping from Truck King. Basically, Toyota is saying in both cases, it’s not really their fault.
I saw it. It was TK dropping the gear to 1st. You can tell from 90kmh it revved to almost readline. They tried to shift into 1st gear. But the transmission must be crap build for it to just blow from that. I have done that to 07 civic si downshifting and bouncing redline. It still work today.
I heard they detuned the engine with the manual because they "couldn't control your right foot", turns out the transmission is weak and underbuilt they didn't have to do that in the previous gen smh
@@brucey5585 they tried to down shift from 5th to 3rd. Toyota said they shifted into first. 5th to 1st? Without redlining? Uh huh.
You did not watch it or you would not say that. They dropped from 5 to 3 plain to see on video @@brucey5585
That was there fault seen it a dozen times on 6 speed toyotas
Here’s the main issue with his answer…you could run a gladiator rubicon through this same thing in 4lo, at peak torque etc, and it would not break because it’s built up beefier. The issue shouldn’t be software to make the car less capable, it should be more robust mechanical components to withstand the situation, but they won’t do this because of cost. Not saying jeeps computers are reliable, but certainly it wouldn’t break under the exact same situations, nor would many other if any other competitors
Correct.
No such thing as unbreakable.
@@beexiong2995did he say that? He said in that situation.
And the Gladiator is a solid front axle like all Jeep Wranglers, you trade off strength offroad for poorer ride quality on the street with a Jeep.
A jeep isn't using software when you put in 4 low. It's purely mechanical.
SavageGeese spilled the beans already in their Tacoma video.
I like how he said it too 😂
I got to check it out
Toyota would have never done this podcast if the Tacoma sales weren't way down. This is damage control, not transparency. Multiple reviewers have broke them during moderate stress scenarios. Not to mention the trans overheating issues.
Sounds like sales are doing ok to me. We will see 1st half numbers soon.
@planoman0935 Tacoma started delivering in Q4 2023 aside from iForce Max. Q1 2024 sales were down almost 60%. Some of that is also due to not delivering any iForce Max models. But just like the Tundra, only 10-15% of Tacoma buyers will opt for the iForce Max. So we will see what Q2 looks like, but all signs point to down 30-35%.
@@nismomike3182 That’s because, just like the Tundra, the iForce max will be lame. Minimal mpg improvements and no improvement for freeway towing.
@@nismomike3182 very few 4th gen Tacomas delivered in 2023 plus those sales would have been booked for 2023. It was expected to be down 60% because it was a new gen and they had to retool plants etc. The Ranger was down over 80% of a much lower number for the same reason. The fact that you are not seeing huge deals for July 4 with 0% interest etc tell me they are on track at least here where I live. Unlike lil Kenny, I don’t see tons of Tacoma’s on the lots in DFW. The off roads and sports get sold fairly quickly here. Also Tacoma sold short of 300k in 2023 and Toyota sold almost 12 million vehicles. That’s 2.5% of their volume. I think the sales of the Tacoma’s with iforce max will surprise to the upside.
Toyota cost cutting to maximize profit while relying all the normies to still believe in toyota reliability.
North American made Toyotas have never been reliable. Same problem Honda has with their NA made vehicles.
My toyota are all over 13 years, this is a new model. And cars are man made , they break down. Even the best and most reliable cars. Nothing is going to be the same while the govt hijacks the cars companies over emissions. Wake up. YOu next cars is electric if these people are not stopped. Part and supplies are hijacked with higher cost. It is attack against the car industry for full electric
Record profits last year. First the 3rd gen Tundra has engine failures left and right, which Toyota responds by doing the cheapest thing possible by having the dealer fill the bay with 1000 pieces of your expensive new Tundra so Jim the service tech can build you an engine with a short block and old engine parts. Now Toyota is cost-cutting the drivetrain of the 4th gen Tacoma and insisting that it's the fault of the driver when the driveline fails doing something that any Tacoma sold up until now would have zero issues doing. They cost-cut the driveline to the point where exceeding their software limits by 1.7% means broken parts.
@@bobman717arent all the parts still designed in japan tho? (probably not the new trucks but everything else i imagine is). I had an Accord that was built here but the driveline i believe still said japan on it. I could be wrong. Then again that doesnt mean anything either: I had a Mazda cx-5 made 100% in japan (hiroshima) and i had the low rpm/idle fuel pump go bad with less than 20k miles. Dealership was baffled, said they had NEVER saw one go bad. A fluke or poor quality parts manufacturing? Who knows 🤷♂️
Don’t let Toyota’s marketing team swindle you into buying one of these piles
So stupid
TFL sold theirs. That say a LOT.
@@doom4067 they sell everything. they're journalists not collectors. what did you think it said "a LOT" about?
They sold it too soon.@@grizzly311tr
Any company that knows what happened and tells you off the record, without letting you tell it on the record, has something to hide and should be avoided AT ALL COSTS!
Not if the engineer has not been given press permission to Make public
Have to get to the root cause before speculation
What bothers me is the Channel lost its journalists standing by holding off on the story? Compounded by the immediate sale of the Tacoma instead of wringing it out?
They didnt want to talk about it publicly till they had a fix ready for customers. Standard procedure in any large company.
Not the video freezing as he is about to say the problem. 😂😂😂
Even the WiFi was like: yea I will not participate in this lie.
Mine absolutely refused to participate!!
They told you can't talk about?! You paid full price for the truck, you do whatever you want!
There were strings pulled in order for them to get one so early. They still want a partnership with toyota in the future. Just cause there is a small fire in the kitchen you don't yell fire in the dining room. No need to cause mass panic when it might be easily solved or a one off situation.
UA-camrs have to schill for OEMs so they get invites to media events
The my want to keep getting invited to Toyota events. That's why small channels will tell you exactly how they feel; they're not getting invited, anyway.
@spyder000069 "easily solved" doesn't require five months.
@@doom4067 Things move slow in a big company. According to the video tfl may have been the only one. Hard to solve problems unless there is enough data and then you need a mitigation plan which takes more time. In this case they will use software to avoid this situation which may reduce the potential for issues but does point out the design was flawed as the mechanics should have taken that. Every 4x4 ive owned would have even my econo geo trackers. Its common knowledge to not buy the first year or two of a new design and the people who do beta test and pave the way for the rest of us.
New TNGA-F platform
Toyota Not Give A F**k
The first Red Flag for me is that they De tuned the engines for the Manual Transmission variations. They themselves said it. They can't control your right foot when releasing that clutch. "snapping drive train components. Transmissions overheating also a problem. The list will go on with time.
Truck King just released a video, two hours before this one dropped.
The clutch let go during an aggressive, on-road downshift. Toyota said the only explanation was that the guy messed up and shifted from 5th to 1st, instead of 3rd.
TRD OFF-ROAD model. Doesn’t give a lot of off-road confidence.
Saw that. The truck didn't even red line. Why wasn't 1st locked out anyway at the speed. TuRD!
From what I saw, the clutch was depressed and when trying to put it in gear it was grinding. And the clutch never came off the floor, so that tells me it never disengaged.
Just watched that
It seems to me that the driver would notice right away if he went to first instead of third. Even if he had, one shift like that should kill a transmission. Forced limp mode, maybe, but not kill it.
Yup, i watched that and watched the rpms. HE DID NOT GO FROM 5 TO 1. More lies from these mother fuckers. Toyota went from my favorite brand to most hated.
If Toyotas mindset was building a quality truck, they would have made the differential strong enough for any setting and anticipate user error when selecting application…. they take the longest to redesign with the expectations they test and redesign a superior quality product
No they would’ve designed and built in Japan instead of America and Mexico.
Just wait until the Tuners get a hold of it. Pop bang boom!
Great point
So build a 4WD truck that will break if you actually take it Offroad. But it’s ok, because most customers won’t take it offroad.
The only offroading we expect is when the customer hits the curb in the Starbucks drive through 😒
Having something that weak and underbuilt is unacceptable, it didn't used to be this way...
The contributing vehicle settings he described as rare is actually very common in off-road situations. Bottom line is that components are not sturdy enough handle the load.
So sad how far Toyota has fallen.
Still sounds like a weak point in the front differential. Glad I don't own one because driving and towing in snowy conditions I feel it would break.
Yeah, that was a very little traction scenario and it broke.
They weren't even towing and it broke as soon as they hit some snow on a light incline.
Remember guys, it also broke in 4 low where the power is amplified by gearing. And with an offroad mode turned on. In 2H/4H on the road the powertrain isn't going to be nearly as stressed.
@@jimmy-buffett excuses excuses...
My first question is why Roman would be "worried" to have to tell Toyota the Tacoma broke? Bought and paid for by Toyota?
They want to keep getting invited to Toyota events. Why do you think they waited until Toyota allowed them to talk about the truck that they bought (and then sold after six months)?
They're automotive journalists... they have to walk a fine line with criticism or it will hurt them. Especially when the audience wants these brands.
@craigquann I don't buy it, real journalists get the story out asap.
@@1FiftyOverland yea, and then toyota stops sponsoring. Like Subaru did. So they could go public and burn that bridge. Or they can try this approach for diplomacy and give Toyota some more R&D (you think that would have been done already)
@@1FiftyOverland real journalists don't burn their sources by sharing off-the-record conversations, or they lose access to those sources.
He keeps saying transmission because they’re having all kinds of transmission problems also!
How about Truck King's manual clutch issue they just had. They blamed Truck King, but I think they just don't want more bad press for the highly priced Tacoma.
And Truck King waited for toyota's permission to talk about it. I just watched that video, and it seems like they would have noticed right away if the dad had shifted from fifth to first, instead of third.
I'm not sticking up for toyota, but it is very possible Truck King Pop hit 1st gear during the downshift. Only way to know for sure is to have someone more familiar with the shifter try several 5th to 3rd downshifts and see if it grenades or not. If it does not,well than, Pops blew up the clutch, period.
Do you think they paid him off to take the blame?
Exceeded the limit by 1.7%.
Crazy that they cut it that close. These kinds of breakages are damaging to their reputation.
Exceeded the failure limit by 1.7% not the safety margin limit. Would love to know the rpm and torque at moment of failure.
A real consumer would never get this level of service or responsiveness.
They have a long, drawn out way of saying they have a design problem and they have insufficient design margin in the hardware. They aren’t going to fix the hardware problem right now so it can happen again. They are working on a software solution instead to limit the drivetrain forces further.
At least he was brave enough to come forward. The response was disappointing but not surprising. The powertrain was designed to the minimum strength required for typical operation. Don’t push your luck on a trail.
Tread lightly with these new Toyotas or you could regret it.
Hmm, no wonder I got what I originally paid for it on my trade in for 2023 Tacoma. Now glad I got a 5th Gen 4Runner. Also, the several times the Toyota guy misspoke transmission, probably means there are also transmission issues too.
This response is honestly sad and surprising. He gives us the run around on how unique the situation is and how unlikely it ever happens to anyone else and THEN has the AUDACITY to make the fix about de-tuning the software instead of increasing the strength of the components. Shocking stuff from a company that once claimed to make things 'overbuilt.' This is the exact opposite of 'overbuilt.' I'm not mad it broke im mad at this response.
Total bull shit. Should be designed to handle all possible torque! Freaking designed to be babied by software? That means it's hugely under engineered. I get it, add 35" tires cvs snap. In this case it can't handle small, stock tires and light off roading with out software saving it? And light duty highway traction control sent too much torque to a wheel by slamming breaks ? This is bad...
Redesigning and changing specs of parts cost a ton of money. A simple software detune to fix the problem cost them very little. It all boils down to poor engineering. Which is why he is being pulled from is position and going to Japan for training.
@@LawFarin the present cost for a software update will be nearly nothing, but the future cost of their reputation and the loss of potential buyers could be astronomical.
What could go wrong moving everything to Mexico where you only pay the people less than $3 an hour
Nothing to do with the people who builds it but the quality of parts and materials.
@@manoloprpr that is incorrect if you're only getting paid $3 an hour you have no motivation to work and do your job properly three dollars an hour in Mexico is still a garbage wage that is less than minimum wage here in the US that is not enough to feed your family so why would you care if the product that you make is quality the people of Mexico deserve a minimum of 15 an hour
Not everything is made in mexico, the trucks are just assembled there. Many parts are made in long beach/japan. Its a design/material issue.
They only assemble the parts in Mexico. They don't design them.
Freudian slip saying "transmission" instead of "differential".
Apparently there have been more transmission issues than differential issues. Buyer beware
Save that for the next upcoming video?
I saw that too. You could tell he knew he did it too
Exactly what I was thinking. He did it at least twice. Probably because transmission issues popping up are on his mind.
CONFIRMED Jeep wrangler more reliable than a Tacoma 😢😢😢 The facebook groups are gonna have a field day
Heck even the new Ford Ranger and Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon both have turbo 4s yet they didn't break eraly like the Tacoma lol
I have the first year of the redesign Nissan Frontier, 2022. No issues whatsoever. I’ve taken it off road many times in similar conditions. Nothing has broken or went wrong in 19,000 miles! I’m very happy I didn’t go with any of the other competitors. All I see this video by TFL as…Damage control
Nissan marketing team in the comments 😂
Agree but that was a more minor redesign compared to this. Still no excuses. My 2003 Ram was the 1st year of the Hemi and it is going strong with 230k miles and still no serious problems
While watching this video I actually got a frontier commercial. It said “Frontier wins” too dam funny
@@drivewayhero Lol, just a Frontier owner 👍🏻
TL;DR 24 minutes to explain that their software allowed the truck to do something that broke something. All new vehicles are more computer than mechanism. Sadly, perceived vehicle quality suffers with every computer, sensor, and actuator that the manufacturers add to their designs.
So he tried to sugar coat his long explanation with all the technical terminologies. In the end it was actually simple. The part was not designed to handle that kind of load. Here is my simple solution for Toyota - Design your part better.
Anyone else questioning their current Toyota? I have a 5th gen 4Runner, and it's kind of lost its luster, like I don't even want to be associated with Toyota anymore.
We ordered a Grenadier to replace our 5th Gen Four Runner
@@lloydswartz7354 awesome!
What’s wrong with your 4Runner?
@@bobcoats2708 Nothing really, just 10 years old, and very outdated, underpowered, ect. 5th Gen 4 Runners are solid vehicles when it comes to reliability, and in some ways SO much stronger then prior models. Other then the fuel pump screaming in agony for 8 years, lol. But after dropping 6K just to add a winch and realizing the 10s of thousands it would take to get 35s, lift, gears, rear bumper and a front end that might or might not ever survive enough to be practical......combined with purchasing a 2018 Power Wagon later and realizing how out classed the 4 Runner is by modern competitors we decided to move on. I will no longer purchase a 4x4 with out a Solid front axle, winch and twin lockers. There are too many vehicles with that modern tech now and there is simply no reason to keep doing all that with after market. The Ineos additionally can tow what we need and is designed to last forever, unlike the newest Toyotas. One ton running gear works for me! Look, I am 55 and have put my dues in dealing with crappy IFS on the trail. I have changed many a tie rod, CV shaft, drag link, A Arms. Its time to move back to what works, old school. Not software that limits power so a delicate IFS axle or under built transmission does not fail. Besides, too many Four Runners on the trail now! Ineos is more interesting and fun. If you can step up to the next level $$$$ why not.
Bizarre logic...how bout glad I got the legendary fifth gen before it's gone... Defintely going to be worth ALL the money..?
So the front diff components are too weak on the new Tacoma. Thanks!
That is why they won't put a front locker in their trucks. The locking collar that connects the half shaft to the stub shaft when in 4 wheel drive broke to pieces. It is the weakest link in the system, and it is designed to fail before anything else fails. A locker will be breaking this design constantly and that is why Toyota will not offer one. I rebuilt m 2002 front diff which is of the same design albeit somewhat smaller and i have always questioned its durability. This confirms my concerns about that.
So that was a word salad that in essence said the front differential is not strong enough in certain situations but we aren’t going to strengthen the differential. We’re going to change the software. Sounds like good reasoning to not buy this truck if you intend to go off road.
WOW. Toyota really is junk now. For real
What word salad? He explained it pretty clear. The traction system accidentally dumped all the torque into one wheel all at once and broke the shaft
He keeps accidentally saying transmission because.....You know....That and the rear end are having problems...
As I keep listening to this guy the more I'm convinced that changing straight forward mechanical components to be electronically controlled is over engineering
Who'd have thought applying excess power to allow for multiple brake clamping actions to be applied to find traction would be a bad idea? Lockers and proper driving over software every time.
Why the Jeep Rubicon uses a front locker rather than a fancy brake based system.
To be fair front lockers are a niche mechanism and probably an expense most people will never take advantage of. Why build something most people won't use. The brake system is software that can use already existing mechanical components. Toyota has had the MTS system for years now and its been good enough for when it's needed
@@YerBoyTroynearly all people that use a 4x4 for trail use add a front locker, and it's basic modern tech. More and more vehicles come with front locker. Toyota is headed the wrong way.
This is an embarrassment to Toyota. The corner that broke should be able to take 100% of the tq in such a limited traction situation (which it wasn’t because the rear tires were still spinning). Had a 2012 TRD sport for a decade. It was awesome. Bought a new 2023 off-road and sold it within 10 months. It was trash.
How was the third gen trash?
2024?
@@joseeduardo4327 hunted for gears like crazy. Got OTT and still hunted like crazy. They replaced my entire dashboard because it was defective. Replaced drivers door upholstery because it was defective. It had a bad ‘clunk’ that was because body mount bolts weren’t tightened from the factory. Suspension squeaked. Then it developed a shake at highway speeds and i just couldn’t do it anymore so i sold it to VROOM.
@@joseeduardo4327 had the 2012 from new to 110k miles and 10 years. Never a single problem. I replaced the front wheel bearings and front brakes… that was it.
@@adamklotzify mine was a 2023… so 3rd gen not the current 4th gen in this video
I’ve never heard so much yapping to explain they made a faulty product. He admitted all these things have years of testing before they launch them. It’s wild to me they never would have encountered this problem in a truck they know people use for off road
It honestly sounds like a normal off road situation with traction control operating as designed caused the break.
Locked rear diff, front end slipping on one side, mild RPM, sends power to slipping wheel. snap
All manufacturers are using their customers as test mules rather than spending the money on proper testing and R&D. From Chevrolet on my 2020 2500hd diesel LTZ I get the usual "could not diagnose", or my favorite, "we have no clue, we cleared the code and let's just see if it comes back.". Dodge was like, look you are on your third transmission within 100k miles it's costing us to much to replace, you want to trade it off. My ford f150 only had one transmission issue before the 36k miles and they took care of it knowing it was a well known issue. Then you read all the stories about the 7.3 Godzilla issues early on.
I really appreciate Sheldon doing this video with Roman. It makes me happier as a Tacoma owner knowing that they’re putting in the effort to understand the problems and fix them, but furthermore it makes me happy to know that good and passionate people are the ones making these trucks. Keep up the good work Sheldon.
GM engineer... Hold my beer, installs factory 35s" with front ifs locker.
The “Truck King” channel Canada also broke their 2024 Tacoma by SIMPLY DOWNSHIFTING TO A LOWER GEAR!!
All these failures in addition to the Tundra ENGINE RECALL makes me wonder what’s going on with Toyota !
That explains why they didn’t put the Tacoma on the slip test; they admitted that 3 wheels in the rollers will snap the axle shaft on the 4th wheel. Seems like a uniquely poor Toyota design, as no other slip test vehicle snapped an axle shaft.
That would suck if the shaft inside the diff is the fuse instead of the CVs. Say goodbye to trail-side CV changes.
Also, imagine spending way more money on a hybrid only to find out it's been de-tuned to non-hybrid power to save the drivetrain! Should have built the truck to survive hybrid power...
First the Tundra, then the Taco, now they’re about to F’up the venerable and iconic 4Runner 😢
And the Land Cruiser.
You can only count the production team in Japan for making it good, lets hope for that
Did I just hear him say that it's possible that under some circumstances for the truck's own traction control system ("multi-terrain select") to exceed safe torque specifications of certain other components of the vehicle? I don't care how _rare_ that condition is, it's a straightforward engineering deficiency! I work with a former Toyota intern/engineer. I have to solve all of his technical problems, too. Maybe it's a Toyota thing.
he also said they released a patch to fix it.
Easier to say it's a software issue than a design or manufacturing issue. And easier to bandaid too.
it sounds like there is latency in the system. the cpu tells the mechanical modules to change but it can't react fast enough under some situations. That is my interpretation of it. the truck sent nearly 100 percent torque to one wheel that had the brakes clamped and the weakest link went boom. the brakes should have opened but it could not do it in time.
@@BassRacerx That was more or less my interpretation as well. Another way that it's relevant; Maybe THIS failure happened in a really rare scenario, but if the mechanical overhead of some of these driveline components is so thin that they can break in that scenario, what about when people start modifying these? It just doesn't seem robust. These parts should have relatively substantial mechanical overheads. That's why a software solution alone feels a little empty. The part seems underbuilt.
@@smithjones1906 you are always going to have A weak point. if you build a truck people are going to break it. The brakes slammed shut so hard it snapped a driveline. Software should prevent sending that much torque to a corner that has the brakes squeezed that hard. They could build the driveline tougher but then something else would break. It would just be wack-a-mole.
I’m glad that TFL got in touch with Toyota to explain what happened to Blueberry. My concern is Toyota hasn’t done enough to ensure us that the mechanical failure on that Tacoma was an isolated incident. Will they be a recall in the near future?
No, they don’t like to do recalls, brings attention to the fragility of the vehicle.
It’s much easier to deny the customer in private at the dealership
The Tacomas transmissions grenading is another issue.
No chance I'd gamble on one of these until they beef this system up. They broke this truck with what are next to all season tires that weren't gripping well at all.
And they say it was a huge amount stress? Have they ever been on a trail?
Now we need a deep dive on what's going on with the Tundra engine directly from Toyota! Toyota needs to replace the entire engine for these customers.
The Car Care Nut goes through their explanation, searches for and finds the real reason. (Toyota Tech) Don't know why, but what did Toyota change in the engine?
@@ryandoyle4344 I watched that video but we need a lot more information and I would like to hear directly from a Toyota engineer.
toyota does not manufacture entire engines for replacement only short blocks. a super dumb policy but it's been that way since forever.
@@BassRacerx I sure hope they change that policy for the Tundra engine recall.
@@KPHVAC you can hope in one hand and crap in the other…
TLDR; TFL got this replaced under warrantee, but you won’t. Save your money to pay for repairs if you buy a new Toyota and take it on any kind of light trail.
I was thinking the same thing, a normal every day customer is NOT receiving this treatment, they wouldn't fly engineers in, they'd look you in the eye and say, sorry, this isn't under warranty, and you're left with a $15k fix.
Yep still blames the customer use instead of taking responsibility for a bad design. Not the Toyota we used to pit our trust in.
@@bradcarpenter2497at what point did he blame the customer. Could you point to the timestamp in the video
@@drivewayhero how about 19:15
So, as long as I don't need to use my truck for its intended purpose, I should be good.
As a hard core Land Cruiser guy, I’ve never felt more validated. With the way the rest of the Toyota truck line in the US apparently has gone to crap, this video speaks to life that Toyota has taken the cheap road. Never would a 80,100,200 series ever be concerned with this happening. This was a MINOR off road use case when your Tacoma broke. No thanks. I’ll stick to a true Land Cruiser. They’re built to a much higher standard than a Tacoma or even a 250 series Land Cruiser.
Is this the same engineer that said the new Taco mechanical's were designed to heavy duty truck standards? Trying to get up my driveway in the winter would put more stress on that truck than TFL did when the transfer case failed on that bunny slope
It would be nice if TFL would get as upset with Toyota as any normal person would , had this happened to them.
Appreciate the openness, but they exceeded loads by 1.7% and had a failure? No safety factor? Or is that 1.7% over the safety factor?
Either way it establishes that the system is not robust enough.
Very poor engineering
The fact that they did a software update rather than a HARDWARE update. Like if something is blowing up because the software CAN hurt it needs to mean the hardware needs to be strong enough so it CAN’T be hurt.
NEVER buy the first year or 2 of a redesign. These Tacomas and Tundras are completely unreliable( just look at the recalls). Look at all the powertrain problems.
What broke it is “the exceedingly rare conditions of being in 4lo with multi terrain traction selected with the rear locker engaged while driving on low traction terrain.” 🤔 Rare situation indeed…
In other news, this dude has absolutely convinced me to steer clear from these new off-road Priuses
Technically it broke because all torque from 2500-2700 RPM went to one wheel. That is actually rare and seems like a software bug that they will fix like they usually do.
Please compare the capability differences between trucks before vs after software update. Sounds like they detuned the performance to protect the hardware. This would never have happened if you used it the way Toyota designed it for, ...to get groceries.
So, the REAL bottom line is: the off road electronics we not designed for the reality of off road conditions. I've been in much more severe Colorado off road conditions with my 2023 3rd gen and the front axle NEVER let me down.
Good reason to keep my second generation Tacoma for ever
Wont last forever have to build something new better at somepoint somehow
This broke under a relativly low grip enviroment. Stock truck, stock tires, wasn't abusing it, wasn't bouncing it. Thier solution is to limit power to the wheels that may have grip. This is the opposite of what one would want for off-road capability. For those that want a capable off-road truck, I will disuade those from the Tacoma and towards a Jeep Rubicon Gladiator. One can put 37" tires on a Jeep and off-road it with relative ease.
Jeep sucks too man we are rummaging through junk
Sheldon, with all due respect. For the amount of money that Toyota is asking for this truck, the amount of problems and severity of them is simply unacceptable. The complexity of this truck is insane. Toyota has lost sight of its core customer. Reliability and durability are truly the only advantage Toyota has on his competition. Without it, you are severely lagging behind. I wish you luck.
Major props to Sheldon for taking the time to tell the public what happened because we all know ford and chevy would never do this.
I have a hard time arguing that the front diff isn't simply under-sized for the application. At the same time, I have to give Sheldon a lot of credit for being able to explain engineering topics in plain language. If you know engineers, you know that's rare.
As a Tacoma owner for the last 30 years, this new generation is concerning. I'm definitely in the wait and see camp.
I have a '21 Tacoma, I'm NOT impressed
Unacceptable.
So the limitations of the drive train was exceeded by driving on an icy surface with very little traction? Yup, I guess I’ll stay away from the new Tacomas.
Jesus feel like this guy is selling me steaks out of the back of his Tacoma
Truck King just broke his Tacoma too. Video out on the same day as this lol
If 1700 rpm is peak torque it also requires peak boost which on a slippery surface probably wasn't happening. To record peak numbers you have to have load not just rpm? Great video TFL and Toyota.
You can hear the turbo spooling to oblivion on the video.
@@pcihector Thank you, Roman didn't indicate that, I didn't hear that but can't hear much anyway. Thanks for the clarification.
How about the taco clutches melting?
Thank you for the interview. This is why I went to your channel before i buy my new vehicles. 3 of them in the past years.
I think it was great that they could identify the problem but need work on shortening there way of explaining it - A lot of run on rambleling that makes a person lose attention...
If i had a yugo and it broke that easy i would have been shocked.
While you are working on updates, I have a suggestion. I currently own all the different gen Tacomas.
The 24 is a great truck. One tweak I suggest is adjusting the rate of acceleration while using dynamic cruise control. Say the cruise is set at 75 MPH and you are following another vehicle at a lower speed, say 60 MPH, and that vehicle finally moves over, the Tacoma wants to acceleration back to 75. It does not need to down shift two gears and mash the gas and take off like a race truck to get back to 75. When I am using cruise a smooth comfortable ride is the goal, so limit the rate off acceleration as if a person would do it, nice steady rate and smoothly get back to the set speed without all the downshifting and racing back to the set speed.
I will say it is better than my 19 Tacoma in this condition. Really can't find anything else complain about. Toyota did a great job on the 4th Gen.
Thank you TFL and all other YT reviewers for holding car manufacturers to a higher standard ! God Bless🙏🤙🤘
I want TFL to drive a Sienna, yes, Toyota's own front wheel drive minivan, up the same trail section and see what happens. You might get stuck, but I'll bet it wouldn't break.
Agreed or rav4 neither would
As long as it's an early enough model year. They could try it in a Corolla or Camry, too. I spun tires on a 2006 corolla once, and nothing broke. If they did that, they would just claim that conditions weren't exactly the same due to the variables in snowfall.
The SPEED that he talks reminds me of me when I panicked answer 😂 Buddy is just word vomiting trying to remember Toyota PR talking points
We called this pressured speech in psychiatry
So true!!
So you've made the truck less capable via a software update instead of revising the part that failed. Gotcha. You can keep it.
Well I been looking at the new Tacoma but now I will look in to the Nissan Frontier 6 cylinder and the reviews are really good. Thanks for you excellent video. Hello from Vancouver Canada.
My uncle just bought a 3rd gen Tacoma TRD OFF ROAD, the same reason why he didn't want the new one with the 4 cylinder and more issues