Between this and TFLs front axle failure sounds like the truck was engineered by accountants. Engineered to be just good enough under normal driving conditions, with no extra robustness. How the mighty have fallen.
Toyota blaming the drivers, kind of like when Boeing blamed the pilots when the 737 max was falling out of the sky… sweet corporate line Toyota… soon these automotive journalists are going to get disappeared ☠️
@@Wellh0wrya you could say that with certainty if it involved all max 737s instead of 2. Strange how American pilots were able to handle the aircraft with the bad program.
@@TonkaFire2019 similarly Toyota is trying to blame the drivers for not selecting the proper road conditions and not engaging the manual transmission properly… u can see in the video the rpm only went to 4500… if he dropped it into first it would have been higher
I’m still a Toyota guy… and won’t touch a ford or Chevy. Sorry they are not quality. We can only assume that Toyota quality is tanking to meet government regulations… No way others are meeting the regulations without sacrificing quality. Bought a used 2023 4Runner… I’ll drive that to 360k like my 2003 Tacoma. Should be good for another 20 years. Anything with a turbo will be on at least it second turbo by then.
Soooooo, the manual has 8 fewer horsepower and 7 fewer pound feet of torque because, as the engineer said, the manual couldn't handle the extra power. So basically, the manual is built at the absolute limit of what it can handle with barely any margin of extra strength for longevity sake. That doesn't sound like a good combo reliability or long term endurance.
Your wrong. What the designer said was they couldn’t account for people reviving the engine and dumping the clutch. I’m sure if you don’t drive like a maniac the transmission will be fine.
@@ronhamilton515I had a manual accord from 1987 that I beat the crap out of, and did clutch drops regularly, and never had a problem. there's no excuse for this
Shifting from 5th to 1st is just stupidity! You want to break your transmission? Go right ahead head! Remember TRUCKS are not race cars! This video is dumb when they tried to shift from 5th to 3rd.
Let me translate Toyotas corporate speak. "Yes it's probably our fault but we built our reputation on reliability. So no we are not going to own up to it."
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k. They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY. Toyota Corporate is trying REAL hard not say, "YOU ARE DUMB FUCK, WHY YOU BLOW OUR TRUCK UP."
Let’s say Toyota is right, it was an improperly executed shift from 5th to 1st: A) It still shouldn’t have blown up. I recall learning by to drive stick, my buddies and siblings learning. We committed the same crime countless times in clapped out sh!t boxes that kept on ticking. A brands new “Toyota” should handle that no problem. B) If we understand how a manual transmission works, we know the clutch would never come into play in this scenario in the first place. The transmission synchros would never mesh due to the range ins speed being too great, and so it never even made it into 1st gear, let alone clutch out while 1st was engaged. We heard the synchros grinding, and it certainly didn’t look like it ever popped into any gear. Something fishy indeed. Unfortunately an opportunity missed for Truck King to show another use for “Clutch Start Cancel”. When I lost the clutch on an old Chevy truck, I still drove it 30 miles home by starting the engine in gear. To Upshift I had to pull the shifter into neutral, wait for revs to fall while lightly applying shifter into next gear until it slotted in. For downshifting it required really precise rev matching. But point is you don’t even really need a clutch hahaha. But it’s not fun or fast.
I am 56 I was taught on how to drive on a stick. I call BS on Toyota. I viewed the video and saw nothing wrong. RPMs went up to a normal number. If you slammed it into first RPMs would have red line immediately. Come on Toyota you are better than this. Bring back the V8 Tundra and V6 tacoma
no... not if the clutch granaded before the actual redline. Not like it was fully engaged and it didn't reach redline, IT BROKE before reaching redline, so it's still possible
@@jamesnunez1703I'm not buying it. He wasn't confident in his manual skills as he eluded to in the video. Do you want the nanny controls to prevent you from hurting yourself, or do you want to have the freedom to make expensive mistakes?
Growing up around Nissan and Toyota trucks. Seeing this really bothers me about the long term reliability and cost of maintenance in the second hand market. I still think Nissan did it right with keeping the V6 and 9 speed automatic. Maybe the automatic is better than the manual in this case. I dont know, but it doesn't convince me to go out and buy a Toyota anymore than going out and buying a Chevy Colorado or Ford Ranger. Great video though. 😊
funny story about that, its an old military trick that if your off road trying to get up an obstacle with an open front diff you can slam on the brake pedal while under throttle to coerce the diff to send power to the wheel that isn't spinning (however this runs the risk of bending tie-rods or worse) Anywho, I have an old 88 Dakota with 450,000 + miles on, I beat on in the woods some times and have done this quite a few times under full throttle lol. Do you know what breaks? Nothing. But thats odd a, truck I paid $ 1000 dollars for 15 years ago still being reliable Vs whatever orange thing is. Ah I forgot to mention, the dakotas a manual transmission and I use 4 wheel Low on the trail. But there is no garuntee's in life, other than an old stinky Dodge I guess. lol
FYI, I had a 2018 Tacoma TRD PRO. No issues. I sold it and bought a 2023 Tundra 1794 edition. It’s been a nice truck but the Tacoma was bullet proof. I see a lot of issues on UA-cam regarding the new Tacoma.
when did they get their reputation in the first place? Because the 3VZE in the late 80's, 90's Pickup and 4Runner was a complete trainwreck. So, when did all that happen?
My friend at work bought the new Tundra with the twin turbo V6. Three weeks into ownership the engine blew and Toyota replaced it under warranty. Tundra, Tacoma both having serious malfunctions. Toyota, are you buying parts from the lowest bidders???
Toyota only behaves nicely when its a celebrity or a youtube channel with followers. Regular customers i see online, toyota doesnt give a shit. Dealer and toyota treat normal customers really bad
Having owned a manual 4cyl 4x4 Tacoma, I can attest to the fact the transmission locked me out of first at high RPM. The answer is at the beginning, they dropped 8HP because the transmission is weak. I heard it from Toyota myself.
You are giving way too much credit to the 8hp. No way Toyota would put the transmission in a situation that 8hp is the determining factor of breaking or not. Those transmissions are built to handle more than the figures they give to the public. It's laughable that people believe this.
Lots of vehicles will lock out of 1st or it will be very difficult to move into 1st on older vehicles. I don't think this was a money shift. The rpms would've flew through the roof which they did not.
@@TraceyAllen No... Toyota should have designed a manual transmission that can handle MORE than the power of the engine it's attached to. EPIC FAIL TOYOTA!!
@@TraceyAllen It is a fail, dropping the power by 7hp so the transmission doesnt brake? Sounds like a poorly engineered transmission, if 7hp makes that difference then there are bigger issues.
Purchased a new 22 TRD 6 cyl OR with manual. Do off-road and pull a small utility style camper. Love the truck and the manual. NO Problems. Checked 24 TRD OR pricing from same dealer earlier today before commenting. I paid $38,500 (out the door) + tag & tax 2 years ago. Today's TRD OR manual price, without all the extras included in my truck, $52K (without tag & tax). No way would I want a 4 with a turbo attached. Keep It Simple. By the way, I downshift all the time.
@@NuclearT3acup exactly. Im starting to think people never realized that the incline anti-roll back was a thing, so now they get away with advertising it like it’s a new feature.
yup, I'm a delivery driver for UPS and they used to tell us, to keep from rolling backwards on a steep hill, mash the gas pedal to the floor until the poor little turbo diesel built up enough revs to kick in and then release the hand brake 😂
The new Taco manual trans has been breaking -- causing lockout of 2, 4, and 6th gears. Auto transmissions have overheated on several reviews. Glass front diff on TFL's truck. Now glass clutch on TK's Taco. What in the world is Toyota doing?
Doesn’t sound good for the Taco. I know it isn’t a totally new model, but they always say don’t buy the first generation of a vehicle. Wait until the bugs are worked out.
I had a 2005 Taco with the 6 spd man that missed shifts all the time (all of my trucks prior to then were manuals) and the dealer basically tried to tell me that I just couldn't drive. I had to double clutch many times just to get the truck to go into gear. Toyota had a really sweet 5 spd for many years but the 6 spd was a real mess from the getgo.
Toyota sold themselves to the globalists period. Removing people’s wealth is the idea! Weakening the individual. Toyota leadership team should be fired… period. Lexus and Toyota are both compromised! So sad!
LMAO this is absolutely insane. My first manual was a 1985 Jetta. I raced and danced that clutch up and down like a maniac for years... Never failed. This Tacoma is 40 years newer and it's fragile like this????? They're out of their mind.
I still abuse the transmission on my 2-owner 1992 Ford Ranger STX 4x4 and as I approach 200k it's only had one clutch/ flywheel replacement. Toyota not designing a better manual to handle the higher output and behavior of this engine is a dismal failure.
@@Dpharm597 GUANAJUATO - Toyota Motor de México has begun production in 2024 of the fourth generation of its iconic Tacoma pickup, a model that has been produced entirely in Mexico for almost 20 years.
It is not a Toyota of Japan product it is Toyota of North America which is a bunch of ex american engineers that fell into Toyota after the fall of the big 3. No one is making quality anything anymore. There is no money in making things to last. They need you in the shop paying for repairs to make money and they are using the market for r&d so the consumer pays and pays and pays.
Your dad clearly knows how to drive a manual. I have driven manuals for 25 years and I know that if I deliberately shift from 5th to 3rd, I can feel instantly if I accidentally throw it all the way over to 1st gear. Most people would. Shifting into the wrong gear almost always happens during intense driving where you're trying to bang through the gears as quickly as possible. Unintentionally going from the 5th to 1st doesn't happen when you are slowly and deliberately going from 5th to 3rd. You can feel when you go to far. There's a resistance in the shifter if you try to pull it over too far and into 1st at speed like this. My guess is that the rev-match feature is poorly tuned for skipping gears in a downshift and the engine didn't blip the gas enough. I would love to see the clutch froma 4th gen compared to the clutch from a 2nd or 3rd gen Taco. My guess is that like many of the other components in the 4th gen, some cost-cutting has been going on.
As someone who was a dealer tech for years i will tell you right now. We had obvious parts failures and the service department even after us telling them a part failed would find a way to blame it on the customer. 90% of the time that happened
This is becoming a nasty trend among many business in many different industries. They don’t want to pay anymore…they are doing everything possible to put things on the consumer. Not good.
@@andrewsnyder9262 It all starts with corruption in Washington DC. And inflation, making the dollar almost worthless. What happens in Washington DC, really affects the economy around the world. Which affects quality. Quality has been lacking with all products. We have technologies to make everyone wealth. The corrupt Elites are not going to be able to stop what is coming. Prosperity for all.
It's usually the clutch or the flywheel that gets damaged. Not the gear, as the damage doesn't continue further in. The clutch / flywheel junction takes most of the stress at that instance.
@@Take_America_Back my bet is the gear box is very robust. The failure here was in the clutch unit. Which makes sense given the clutch gets destroyed before the damage can continue further into the gears.
It more about the torque limitation (420nm) ~ 310ft-lbs it’s the same situation with the hilux diesel the manual version is limited at 420nm of torque.
Pretty sad to see Toyota underbuilding things. I caught a lot of heat in my videos for this, this is not the only manual that has died. The rev match shows that it should not have destroyed the clutch. Thanks for being as honest as you can with this and actually releasing the video :). Toyota engineers have already been on camera saying they detuned the manual because the drivetrain couldn't handle the force of someone dropping the clutch if it wasn't detuned, I think we can read between the lines.
After thinking about it, I highly expect toyota added that "feature" to prevent the weak clutch from breaking. They call it a feature but really its a bandaid for a underrated design.
As someone who drives a manual every day "2008 F-150 5 speed manual" I go from 5th to 3rd all the time & the truck just finds 3rd, it has never even tried to go back to 1st, so I call BS on this. He did nothing wrong, the Toyota failed period. The Toyota broke & they're trying to blame their poor quality on someone.
Was thinking of getting a TRD Pro when they were initially teasing the 4th gens but after their full reveal and insane pricing, I think I’m going the Ranger Raptor route.
@@Jomonjijust a reminder ford recalled a bunch of the f150 for dropping from any gear into 1st gear I’ve heard over 50000 trucks where recalled not sure if rangers where affected
I'm saying that what they did had nothing to do with the failure of that truck. All the while Toyohtah blamed them. I know how rematch works. I use it in a Chevy.
@@erod6468 this guy doesn’t get it. Your exactly right the sudden speed increase flung the clutch apart. This is a missed shift all day long. I actually think Toyota was the one being polite. They should have just said, “Y’all are retarded goofs!”
@@erod6468 If you do a 5-1 downshift at 55 mph, the engine is going to overrev even if the clutch breaks due to said overrev. Go watch some videos of guys doing 5-1 "money shifts". I've witnessed someone doing a that exact kind of shift and it's violent. The clutch just doesn't go poof and the engine revs a little. The tires momentarily chirp as the backend tries to kick out, weight transfers forward onto the front wheels, the engine shoots past red line instantaneously, and a connecting rod breaks and punches a window in the side of your block. In fact, there's a legendary video of a kid in his moms Toyota Camry street racing against another car and does a money shift. The clutch was definitely destroyed, but he also left a 100 yard long trail of oil and engine parts behind him. Bizarre how this guy supposedly does the exact same thing but the engine doesn't even come close to red line, the truck's tires make no sound, and all that happens is a clutch disintegrates. Red line in first gear is barely over 20 mph. If you do a 5-1 shift and let the truck rev match at 55 mph, i don't care what you say, that engine is going to try to hit 10k RPM and the gear tires are going to make some noise, even if for only a fraction of a second. And you will absolutely window the block. That's why it's called a "money shift" because you destroy the engine, clutch, and probably the transmission too. We didn't see that here.
lol, Toyota blamed TFL for their Tacoma breaking, they claim that TFL had it in the wrong mode for the environment/conditions it was in, so they supposedly updated the software to adjust the torque delivery so that that it doesn’t happen again. I’ve never seen a company have such a hit on their hand, release a vehicle with terrible value like this.
The worst part of that interview with the Toyota guy is not once was the fact the Toyota doesn't even have a front locker. Yet despite the fact that the Chevy comes with a front locker and more torque I haven't seen any video of anyone breaking their front axle.
@@371kenny The bigger issue is that Toyota is cost cutting their trucks more and more. They moved axle production for the Tacoma from a Hino plant in the US to a Hino plant in Thailand for the 2016 model year and the differentials have been garbage. It wouldn't surprise me if they cost cut the clutch and other driveline components the same way. All while moving assembly to Mexico to save 97% of their labor costs and raising Tacoma prices by $10-20k. It's a joke
@@dawsongranger4940 You have to be doing something particularly ignorant to overheat the clutch in the transfer case of GM's 4WD. Like that idiot on youtube that tested a ZR2 a whille back and instead of using the front and rear selectable lockers like any normal off-roader, he wanted to show off how he could drag the brake with open diffs to mimic having a locked diff and the computer would disengage 4-low once he applied more than 50% brake. A 3rd or 4th gen Tacoma has zero risk of snapping an axle. The garbage Thai-made ring and pinion Toyota uses in those trucks are so fragile that every one of the thin little teeth on the ring gear will shear off well before the axle shaft comes close to snapping. The gear sets have been terrible ever since Toyota moved axle manufacturing out of the US.
Blaming it on the dad here is almost worse than saying it’s a manufactured defect. So if you’re off a centimeter on a shift the transmission explodes, not even under warranty. How is someone supposed to teach their kids how to drive in this truck. I think I did that move 3 times the first time I drove my dad’s Hyundai when he makes me drive stick. Also it highlights that have to drive perfectly for the lifetime of the truck with no mistakes. This guy has been driving for probably 40+ years. No wonder why they don’t put paddle shifters as an option
If it was a money shift, the clutch failure saved the engine. Personally, I'm not going to second guess it. Mistakes happen. I've gone 5-2 instead of 5-4 on track before. I just didn't let up on the clutch. Went back to neutral and coasted the straight while my heart re-started. If that was not a car I drove every day for years, I may not have noticed that it didn't feel right in the .01 seconds before I re-engaged. I haven't driven it, but the rev matching feature looks horrible. I don't even want that in my track car. Part of the art and beauty of driving a manual is the ability to slightly vary rpm to create an "attitude" or "style" of shift that meets the immediate need. It's hard to explain as a not-auto-engineer, but the exact speeds match depends on whether you are going to accelerate, decelerate, or coast. The transmission and tires have some play that can absorb some of the excess energy in the flywheel (or wheels & body) - that preload is taken out when you disconnect the transmission under acceleration or deceleration. Very slight differences in the shift point can bring that preload back into the assembly as you re-engage with excessive slip. Maybe the computer can do that for you - but I feel like the people buying a manual transmission these days are the people who don't want it to. Can it predict the gear you will select? Better - can you deactivate the feature? Can you heal and toe the thing? I used to heal and toe my dad's 81 ram. I just had to wear proper truck driving boots - couldn't do it in OMP's or Simpsons. That thing was a riot with no power, no grip, a heavy truck with a massive flywheel, and a powerful clutch that activated in 1/2" of it's 12" motion range.
There are just too many failures with the Tacoma right now. Transmissions overheating, front differentials breaking, etc. Seems like Toyota made an inferior vehicle and charged $10,000 more than the prior generation.
I own a 3rd gen tacoma, i think its OKAY but i only got it for the reliability. I want 300k miles out of this truck. I like how basic it is. Since becoming an owner I’ve noticed that toyota fans are just a cult. Thats fine as long as Toyota gives their cult reliability. NOW their vehicles arent reliable and the cult cant admit it. The cult of toyota dick riders make me sick. Toyota will never change if youre a customer that lines up to be spoon feed shit. They act like its their fault when toyota sells them an overpriced and underengineered turd. These idiots are really paying 40-70k for a 4banger turd
Mexico has fuck all to do with it. This is spreadsheet engineering. They made it cheaper. So they make more per truck. And that decision was made by some c suite jackwagon in the good ole USA. Corporations are fucking you. Not Mexicans or whatever other Boogeyman your Facebook is pushing.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k. They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
Hey guys just watched your video of the 2024 solar octane off road when the clutch let let go I have a new 2024 trd sport with the 6speed manual got in in late March 2500 miles and lost 2nd 4th & 6th gear without warning sitting at the the dealer with the transmission on back order NOT HAPPY!!
He didn't push the shifter that hard. Going from 5th to 1st gear should have been nearly impossible. When I was an inexperienced manual driver I accidentally did that. I obviously backed off as soon as I realized but it wouldn't have been easy to push the shifter all the way into 1st gear at those speeds.
Yes I also did this when I was a teen in a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix clone built in same factory). I shift into first no problem with the clutch in, only when I start to release the clutch did I feel immense pressure and pushed right back in. I smell a rat in Tacoma
The fact the truck is tuned to have lower power is the biggest red flag imaginable. Makes me think it barely holding together. Tac says 3rd and no redline. Kinda think toyota is trying to salvage there reputation at the moment
Toyota was always supposed to be overbuilt so paying a little more made sense. I think the computer rev matching played a huge part in this and Hopefully they can fix the issues.
@@spyder000069 that's a good idea. Go to Toyota dealership and test drive one and have cameras directly over the manual shifter to go from 5 to 3rd gear and see what happens
It looks like more poor quality control issues with the new Toyota trucks. So many transmission problems and drivetrain issues, I’m glad I bought my Frontier Pro4x.
You can't tell by watching the clip if the down shift was into 3rd or 1st. All I can say is, 1st and 3rd gear are really close on the gear shift. A little too much pressure to the left can easily give you 1st instead of 3rd. Also, my guess is the rev matching would make it easier to hit 1st by accident. Despite what is likely user error, Toyota has a problem. This type of error can easily happen, and the gear box/transmission should somehow prevent this shift.
@@Eastsidegeorgiaboy Toyota's will fail on purpose if the action exceeds a certain resistance. The reason is so no other part will fail. It protects the engine. It's a failsafe. There is no way you can know if it was first or third. All you can say for certain was that the tolerance was exceeded and the clutch failed. If it's a two gear downshift then tens of thousands of Toyota's should be failing (since the shift system is used in multiple vehicles in different countries).
if he tried to go into first, everyone would have flown towards the dash while metal parts would have littered the roadway. There was no "money shift" in this video, just Toyota desperately trying to shift the blame elsewhere.
@@Zorbino88 In the olden days the shifter would have kicked back hard if you tried to force it. These days manufactures build in failure points to save the vehicle and prevent dangerous situations like that.
So they blame you? I beat the living crap out of my 93 Chevy K1500 for 12 years, on and off road. Never once did I break the clutch or front diff. This Toyota is simply a cheap modern truck like all the rest and whoever would pay the ridiculous price for it is a schmuck.
That is such a BS from Toyota. Down shifting from 5th to 3rd is not uncommon, and I highly doubt your dad went from 5th to 1st gears will grind before they even engage In more than likely won't engage
My 1999 Mustang GT with 260hp has had the clutch dumped every time I get in for fun for the past 25 years and 84k miles and one clutch plate later 8 years ago and I just dumped it again for fun! Toyota what a clown response just put 25 year old Mustang transmissions in for real reliability 😅
@@xbryanthegreatx every manual vehicle I’ve ever driven will not allow a shift from 5th to 1st so if that is what happened then I still blame Toyota for lack of lockout
@@Jay-bw3fl I'm with you. You'd never even get close to dropping from 5th to 1st without at least some audible warning. I don't remember hearing anything that would warrant "Danger" while watching the video. Glad I didn't get a manual Toyota, and certainly wouldn't go around bragging now if I did.
Apparently, the truck is made of glass. You can’t do much with it. Otherwise you’re gonna break it. Pretty much very unlike truck behavior not to mention the current tundra with its engine issues, Toyota has missed the mark with both of these trucks very disappointing, especially since the enormous MSRP price hike.
The only reason you bought the last gen was because of the sheer abuse it could handle, if a tacoma can't handle abuse it's not a toyota truck. Used 2023s are selling for the same price as the brand new ones
20 years ago I knew a guy that had a ‘01 S Runner Tacoma. It had the TRD supercharger and exhaust. It was a sweet truck. It was still under warranty and he wanted to put a TRD clutch in it so he had the crazy idea to destroy the factory clutch and have it replaced under warranty and then just pay the cost difference in the upgrade to the TRD clutch. So we started driving like total idiots. Redline dumping the clutch in 5th gear. Riding around with the clutch half pressed, hard dropping with no rev matching non stop idiocy. I swear it took us a month to finally destroy that clutch and it never grenaded. We were able to drive it to the dealer slipping like hell the whole way. So I call bull on Toyota’s response to this. Oh and also the Southeast Toyota Regional warranty manager was pissed off about having to replace the clutch on a truck with less than 10k miles on it. He said there was no way this truck should need a new clutch. They did replace it under warranty though.
I’ve had an 84 Toyota 4WD, 86 2wd, 98 2wd and currently have a 2020 Tundra Crewmax 4WD. Never, in any of them did I have a problem with anything except a thermostat got stuck in the 86 onetime, changed it and was good to go. What are you doing Toyota?
Right? If they have a feature that suggests you may go from 5th to 3rd, or whatever gear to gear…you best have a mechanical stop in place to prevent this from occurring. The response from Toyota is a bit haughty.
I had an old 1970’s Dodge Ram with the 4-speed manual. Within a week, the clutch lever just sheared off. Upon inspection, the problem was a “bubblegum” weld…you know those beginning metal welds we attempted in 9th grade metal shop? Talk about cheap!
@Boltdriver70 On my 6 spd subaru WRX you can't even put the car into 1st gear above 15 mph. Most car manufacturers have figured out that preventing money shifts is a good idea. Seems like poor design to me if that's what killed it.
@@jaredgates4310 I can't do that with my manual 13 mustang gt either toyota is lying their ass off. Plus the truck never went above 4500 rpm and it should handle that easily
And it would be super obvious if it went into first gear at 55 mph. That's 10k rpm at that speed. It would instantly throw a rod and make a new inspection port in the block. The rear tires would squeal and whip around due to the sudden change in wheel speed. The engine here to 4500 rpm. I think Toyota has a bad calibration for rev-matching downshifts and as a result it damaged the clutch. It really seems like Toyota chose to retain a driveline that's built to handle the power of the older engines, but the new engine makes a low more torque, so Toyota is trying to save money by limiting power to protect the undersized components instead of beefing things up. That's why the manual had to have the power-limited version of the engine and why the 4WD broke when TFL was testing it. It's possibly even why the transmission has been having overheating issues. They tried to do things on the cheap and the powertrain can't handle the additional power.
My subaru can't stop me from going from 5th to 1st and i don't want it to. He tried to jam it it about 6 times so each try is speeding up the transmission input shaft and thus the clutch disk. It never went into gear, but that doesn't mean the transmission input shaft and clutch disk wasn't speeding up with every try.
I thought a lot of modern manuals had speed or sensor lock outs to keep you from accidentally down shifting dangerously into the wrong gear? I'm fairly certain my mustang had that from 2006, but I could be wrong.
That’s strange. My 2012 jk 6 speed wouldn’t go into gear at all if tried to go from 5th to 1st. Maybe if I forced it, but I’m sure it would make way more noise than that Tacoma did.
I've been driving manual transmissions my whole life, I don't believe for one minute that your dad shifted into 1st, that rear end would have locked right up and squealed the tires, and even if he did put it into 1st by accident, it broke way prematurely (that is one weak clutch). The RPM never even red lined before it broke. I don't know about these newer manuals with their fancy dancy rev matching bull crap, but all the manuals I have driven would be extremely difficult to go from 5th to 1st. The tire speed would just not allow it until the vehicle slows down quite a bit. I'm calling bull on Toyota, they know what the issue is, but they aren't saying. Toyota has been having nothing but trouble with these new trucks. I was going to buy this exact same truck, but the price tag was to buku, so I ended up getting a Honda Ridgeline Trailsport instead, and other than missing the manual transmission, I love the Ridgeline.
The clutch pedal was still depressed. The transmission spun the clutch disc faster than normal operating range when he selected 1st gear. The engine reving up whether to redline or not didn't matter because he had the clutch pedal down; clutch not engaged. You need to understand how everything works. The next thing to check since it "grind" really bad is the hub slider and dog teeth on first gear. Selecting 3rd will not grind like that from 5th gear because the gear spacing isn't that far off.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k. They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
@@stoggy4839 rewatch the video during the time it happens. it spikes to 5.5 from 3k. never hit redline. these manuals were detuned so they didnt blow dumping the clutch they obviously are weak transmissions
Facts: *5th gear to lower gear shift *gear grind really bad *never went into gear on downshift *90km/hr (55.9mph) speed @2000rpm cruising per video - Investigation - Gear ratios; 1st 4.78, 2nd 2.42, 3rd 1.44, 4th 1.00, 5th 0.78, 6th 0.64, FINAL 4.300. CRUISING @2000rpm is right above 90km/hr. Per the gear ratios, the gear spacing at that vehicle speed should bring 3rd gear RPM to only 3700rpm. The transmission synchro has no problem with that small of a RPM gap. The grind that was mentioned is very likely due to selecting 1st gear. The synchros job is to spin up or down the speed of the transmission components from there on up to the clutch disc to match the output speed due to the gear ratio. That speed did not match while force was being applied to engage the hub sleeve to the dog gear. This results in the teeth on the hub sleeve skipping on the dog gear teeth on the side of the gear, which is the grind you hear. Since the speed never matched, the gear being selected never engaged. The ecu tried to rev up the engine but is limited to the rev limiter. Correct, the TACH never shows it hitting redline, but actual crank speed may be higher. They never felt the instant deceleration because the gear was NEVER engaged AND the clutch was still disengaged. Fun fact, clutch disc speed would have reached 12,000rpms if the gear engaged. Sorry, not sorry...
"User error" cannot be the culprit, because if your father would had done that over-rev Toyota said, it would had blown the engine to pieces, the infamous "money shift", and look, it was only the clutch. Fortunately it would be something cheaper to repair than rebuild or mount an automatic transmission.
Second Tacoma blowing up on a UA-cam channel. This is NOT the same Toyota that I was driving throughout the 1980’s. Maybe they should abandon all that unneeded crap and just start building manuals like they did 30 years ago. If you can’t start from a hill or rev match yourself, maybe you should just drive an automatic.
TRD Jon's was a sensor/actuator issue on the grill shutter, and while that is a known issue even with Tundra's, I would not consider that "taking a shit." TFL's was a one off software/coding issue that nobody else experienced (afaik) and the traction control system sent 100% of the torque to 1 wheel while the traction control was trying to control that wheel. Toyota already has the logic change, applied it to the Trailhunter and TRD Pro, and last I heard Sheldon is working on applying it to the rest of the TRD OR's that have MTS.
Not necessarily, sounds like the clutch grenaded before it could make the shift and I'd be surprised if they would let the rev match blip go to redline. But they never said what actually broke after 3 months. It would be nice to know what the damage was and what the repair bill would be if it was a money shift.
You likely exploded the clutch. You were at 2000rpm at 5th. Tacoma transmission had a ratio of .777 for 5th and 4.784 for 1st gear. That is an increase in multiplication of 6.15 when you go from 5th to 1st. Your clutch is at 2000rpm in 5th gear. As soon as you jam it into 1st gear, the clutch would be spinning at 2000rpm X 6.15 = 12,300 rpm!!!! And I do say you jammed it into first because you can hear the crunch as you went into gear. Even if the clutch pedal is down, once you are in gear, the input shaft is already spinning at 12,300rpm. There will be no jerks or over rev of the engine. You won't feel anything. Curious why the pedal went to the floor. Would have to look at the damage to see which parts failed. Likely the clutch plate is first to disintegrate. One other note is that the Tacoma transmission has an unusual large range compared to a passenger car. Great of off-road, but more likely to explode a clutch with mis-shifts.
I have driven a lot of Toyota vehicles before and most of it was manual transmission and it never had catastrophic failure like what you guys had. It’s totally a factory defect.
I think its pretty clear rhey know they didnt miss the shift. They just dont want to lose their access to future Toyota products by standing their ground and arguing it was not user error.
Bull, daddy screwed the pouch and went from 5th gear down to 1st gear, you can hear the gears grinding trying to engage and the RPM's spiked, the only reason the RPM indicator did not go deep into the red is because the ECU was attempting to control the over revving.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869I have to disagree. If he had selected first (you CANNOT select 1st at speed, trans locks you out), it would have locked up the rear tires as the engine began to over rev. Also, the ECU would have logged the gear (modern manuals know which gear you're in at all times, especially ones with rev matching). Toyota would have said "the logs show 1st gear was engaged and over rev to 8k rpm" or whatever rpm it hit. Toyota did not say that, they said the damage is in line with a large rpm change. Even if he did the money shift, and the clutch exploded before the rear wheels locked or the engine over revved, that means this clutch is far too weak for this off road truck application and will see early/often failures. ALL of that said, I do think TK should have shown the dash-looking-back camera view for the incident because you would be able to see where his arm goes during the shift. They used this view leading up to it and you can see him in 3rd, 4th, 5th.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869my Jeep has a Toyota transmission and it locks me out of 2nd and 1st if it doesn’t like my speed. For instance when I was braking in my motor and manual, I’d down shift a lot and if I was 1 mph over what it wanted me to be at, I was locked out.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k. They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY. He didn't miss he doesn't know what the fuck he is doing.
That struck me too. Seems like they designed it for picking up groceries. What else can’t it handle…. Cold air intake? Pulling a boat? Long stints over-landing? I wouldn’t trust anything where the engineers had to nerf the motor for it to work lol.
@@Pigsooie2k16with all these Toyota issues I wonder if Toyota is cutting the legs out from underneath their suppliers and forcing them to cut too much costs, resulting in quality issues. One question though: most modern manuals will lock you out of a gear if the revs are too high -- does this transmission not have this feature?
Toyota does use cost cutting measures like every other company. People just tend to ignore it for some reason like how they ran drum brakes in the rear and put a marketing spin on it that all the fanboys ate up but the real reason was saving money
@@Vultite I know that much. But a manufacturing companies reliability is directly tied to the component quality that the suppliers provide them. At some point, if you cut the prices too low, quality begins to suffer on the component side, that's just basic economics. I'm wondering if Toyota has squeezed their suppliers too much -- which may be the reason they mentioned in their last quarterly earnings that they're going to provide their suppliers capital to address issues they've been having (staffing, component issues, etc).
I bought my 4Runner out of warranty, but anecdotally, I see a lot of people in the 4Runner groups that seem to have trouble with the dealers. For instance, these are super sensitive to wheel balance, and are prone to steering wheel shake. A lot of people are told by their dealers that it's normal.
If memory serves me right, all the manual cars I've owned have a first gear lockout above a certain speed. I would think that even without it the mismatch of gear speeds wouldn't even allow the gears to mesh?
That may have been driver error. The grinding was possibly due to the wrong gear being selected. Forcing 5th to 1st will damage any gearbox. Should of backed off the shift and left that in the video. Instead, force it killed it. Also, if people cannot do hill starts without the tech or riding the clutch they should not drive a manual.
@@duggydoit’s how you have to play the game sometimes. TFL is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) off road focused new vehicle channels on YT so they have some pull. Way back they damaged a 4Runner I believe and got blacklisted by Toyota for a while. I’m sure the TK guys don’t want to tarnish relationships with manufacturers so sometimes you gotta tread carefully.
Go watch the latest TFL video where they talk about why the front diff broke. Basically the engineer said the front diff was pushed to a "mere" 1.7% over design spec. This means these trucks are not over engineered at all. Not even to a mere 1.7%. Can we please look into whether Toyota was bought in it's entirety by Tata motors or BYD motors?
its the same reason they had to de-tune the engine and take a few horsepower off for the manual in the first place... they are pushing everything to their maximum with inferior parts. Toyota has changed philosophies in the last few years and decided they can lose some reliability if they can increase their profits.
I saw that. The 1.7% limit breach and they have to software patch it to limit the scenario... I'm a software engineer, and we always were the "clowns" compared to professional engineers, but today the tables are turning. The car customers are being treated like Windows software customers. FYI - this mode of quality assurance sucks for the customer
I also believe TK Sr did not downshift into 1st gear from 5th but shifted into 3rd gear, which IMO, is the easiest gear to shift into when driving a 5-speed manual. All you do to shift into 3rd is, while the clutch is pressed down, move the stick from the neutral position forward. The tachometer almost certainly would've shown an rpm spike at/in redline. You would've also heard the rpm spike. Having driven manuals (Toyota, Mazda) for every day use for 20+ years, I found it actually scary to downshift into 1st gear (sometimes the shift stick actually makes you feel you're about to do something wrong), even when driving only 50mph (80kph). You also almost certainly would grind gears trying to push the stick into 1st. This wasn't user error but just like Toyota's answer for what happened with TFL's Blueberry Tacoma, it could be a rare alignment of circumstances (i.e., where multiple parts and programming exceeded in-design tolerances simultaneously) that led to something breaking. I think the clutch breaking probably needs further research.
Clutch cancel has been out for 30+ years... I had a 1986 4 runner SR5 which meant 5 speed back then.. had clutch cancel. There was a button with no lettering and a small little light on the left side that no one knew what was for... on every truck even into 1st gen tacoma. Like wtf people.
I highly doubt that man missed 3rd gear, these new Tacos will be a nightmare in a few years. Just wait until fan boys start "overlanding" with 35's or bigger tires.
Sheldon told TFL they don't want people putting bigger tires on it. And then said he knows people will. They built this truck cheap and charge more, so the shareholders are making money
Well I been looking at the new Tacoma but now I will look in to the Nissan Frontier 6 cylinder and the reviews are really good. Thanks for you excellent video. Hello from Vancouver Canada.
I watched the whole video and one thing is clear, instead of derating the engine to help the manual survive, they should have uprated the clutch to handle more power. It used to be Toyota used superior materials and Japanese manufacturing dedication, but sadly this has gone the way of the rest of the industry. Cut it close and build it cheap. If you pass those savings onto the customers, maybe ok. Not when you price gouge and dealer fee it to death.
Absolutely! The drivetrain should be able to handle ANY situation for at least a tire size 2 sizes TALLER. Not just stock tires. The Tacoma cannot even handle light conditions with stock tires.
@@alanmorrison3598 rev limiters will never stop an over-rev from a money shift. rev limiters are electronic cutoff, the mechanical connection between transmission and engine will force the motor past the rev limiter based on road speed and gear ratios. you have a point about the digital tach though. a digital gauge like that will always have some level of lag between actual rpm and displayed rpm
I bought a 24 Tundra, worst decision I’ve ever made!! They sold me a truck with a known engine problem and THEY’RE STILL SELLING THEM! I will never buy another Toyota for the rest of my life!!!
Yeah, most of these YTs are nothing but paid shills at this point. It’s really sad they had to get the official version of events from Toyota before they announced it.
I am skeptical on a 5th to 1st. Every manual I have driven binds up and wont allow a shift to first if the rpm is too high. Also, someone with decades of experience driving manual, knows 3rd from 1st.
The manual can’t handle the extra 8lbft of torque 😂 what a lame Taco, so glad I cancelled my TRD manual order after the TFL video. i remember my friends calling me crazy for buying a Bronco saying it was gonna be a lemon. Im at 70 000km of brutal driving, every weekend on the trails and 0 issues with my Badlands.
Right? An extra 8 lb is going to break the transmission? If the margin of error is that small, the transmission was not strong enough to begin with. What is this, the transmission from the GR86?
From the video, it doesn't look like Truck King Sr successfully engaged first gear. It makes sense that he could have damaged the syncros going from 5th to 1st, but how was the the clutch destroyed?
@@paultruesdale7680 Because he’s literally the one who implemented it. The buck stops with him, he is the one whose needs to take all accountability. Extreme ownership if you will. Think it’s any coincidence that for generations the Toyota’s have built this reputation of reliability than the moment a Toyota isn’t CEO, that reputation goes downhill?
I’m not sure that the new CEO is responsible for trying to double the output of vehicles while ignoring the Toyota Production System. But if he is damn the management team. I have been listening to them sell this TPS for the past twenty years like they invented mass production. Seems like even the mighty can make a muck of it.
I've got a newer Toyota manual transmission vehicle, and you don't just push it into 1st like it's an easy thing to do. A transmission will readily allow an easy shift from 5th to 3rd, but going from 5th to 1st, you'll encounter significant resistance feedback. So if he ignored that resistance and jammed it in anyway, that's one thing. If it clicked right into gear position, then it wasn't him, it was the vehicle that caused the failure.
Clutch start is the dumbest “feature” ever. This is what I believe happened to you as it’s happened to me in other vehicle make: I believe the reason why the clutch pedal is to the floor was because the shift fork bent. And slave cylinder over extended and remains in that position. The shift fork has a release bearing that contacts the pressure plate(PP) and the PP is the device that pushes back your clutch pedal. Since the fork is bent, the PP does return but can not push back and return the clutch pedal back up. The reason for the grind was because since the fork is bent, the pedal is to the floor, which means the slave cylinder is still fully extended and trying to transfer that energy to push the PP but was unsuccessful therefore synchros were grinding. Did Toyota show you pictures of the fork? Even if driver shifted into 1st at that speed, which I know he didn’t, you wouldn’t have a pedal to the floor issue, you would have engine issues. I can’t tell how fast you were going, but if under 50mph, you could have downshifted to 2nd gear safely. I also believe the auto rev software is a bad design. A lot of 1st gears have a max rpm of approximately 38mph
Between this and TFLs front axle failure sounds like the truck was engineered by accountants. Engineered to be just good enough under normal driving conditions, with no extra robustness. How the mighty have fallen.
Toyota blaming the drivers, kind of like when Boeing blamed the pilots when the 737 max was falling out of the sky… sweet corporate line Toyota… soon these automotive journalists are going to get disappeared ☠️
@@Wellh0wrya you could say that with certainty if it involved all max 737s instead of 2. Strange how American pilots were able to handle the aircraft with the bad program.
@@TonkaFire2019 fault was 100% on Boeing, not providing thorough training on a software that was created to cut costs and accommodate a design flaw
@@TonkaFire2019 similarly Toyota is trying to blame the drivers for not selecting the proper road conditions and not engaging the manual transmission properly… u can see in the video the rpm only went to 4500… if he dropped it into first it would have been higher
It was designed in usa not japan😅😅😅😅
As a Toyota guy this is painful to watch.
These trucks are under built.
@51AB lol real smart
So are other manufacturers
@jeanclaude7018 Yup, just saying that most vehicules have some or different issues
@jeanclaude7018 Maybe Toyota should import the Hilux as part of their lineup.
I’m still a Toyota guy… and won’t touch a ford or Chevy. Sorry they are not quality. We can only assume that Toyota quality is tanking to meet government regulations… No way others are meeting the regulations without sacrificing quality.
Bought a used 2023 4Runner… I’ll drive that to 360k like my 2003 Tacoma. Should be good for another 20 years. Anything with a turbo will be on at least it second turbo by then.
Soooooo, the manual has 8 fewer horsepower and 7 fewer pound feet of torque because, as the engineer said, the manual couldn't handle the extra power. So basically, the manual is built at the absolute limit of what it can handle with barely any margin of extra strength for longevity sake. That doesn't sound like a good combo reliability or long term endurance.
Exactly what I was thinking. Things running on the edge are more prone to break.
Your wrong. What the designer said was they couldn’t account for people reviving the engine and dumping the clutch. I’m sure if you don’t drive like a maniac the transmission will be fine.
You can see the rpms only went to 4500 when he downshifted … Toyota is shooting themselvws in the foot
@@ronhamilton515I had a manual accord from 1987 that I beat the crap out of, and did clutch drops regularly, and never had a problem. there's no excuse for this
I agree with you 100%
If he had downshifted from 5th to 1st all 3 of you would have gotten whiplash. Toyota's lying their asses off to save face.
But that’s what he was trying to do. My question is why? (I drive a manual transmission Toyota and have for 38 years.)
So true
@@BigHouse907 no sir, he was down shifting from 5th to 3rd.
I agree with you. That is all that should have happened. Rapid RPM increase. Very dissapointed with Toyota.
Shifting from 5th to 1st is just stupidity! You want to break your transmission? Go right ahead head! Remember TRUCKS are not race cars! This video is dumb when they tried to shift from 5th to 3rd.
Let me translate Toyotas corporate speak. "Yes it's probably our fault but we built our reputation on reliability. So no we are not going to own up to it."
Anyone who thinks that you can shift a transmission from fifth gear to first and not damage it is an idiot and knows nothing about cars.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k.
They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
Toyota Corporate is trying REAL hard not say, "YOU ARE DUMB FUCK, WHY YOU BLOW OUR TRUCK UP."
Let’s say Toyota is right, it was an improperly executed shift from 5th to 1st:
A) It still shouldn’t have blown up. I recall learning by to drive stick, my buddies and siblings learning. We committed the same crime countless times in clapped out sh!t boxes that kept on ticking. A brands new “Toyota” should handle that no problem.
B) If we understand how a manual transmission works, we know the clutch would never come into play in this scenario in the first place. The transmission synchros would never mesh due to the range ins speed being too great, and so it never even made it into 1st gear, let alone clutch out while 1st was engaged. We heard the synchros grinding, and it certainly didn’t look like it ever popped into any gear.
Something fishy indeed.
Unfortunately an opportunity missed for Truck King to show another use for “Clutch Start Cancel”. When I lost the clutch on an old Chevy truck, I still drove it 30 miles home by starting the engine in gear. To Upshift I had to pull the shifter into neutral, wait for revs to fall while lightly applying shifter into next gear until it slotted in. For downshifting it required really precise rev matching.
But point is you don’t even really need a clutch hahaha. But it’s not fun or fast.
Toyota is a victim of democrat environmentalists who destroyed the muscle car and are forcing manufacturers to use smaller engines and lighter parts.
@@upshifter5316it wasn't a bad shift. He went into 3rd as the rpms only went up to 4500. The transmission is just garbage.
I am 56 I was taught on how to drive on a stick. I call BS on Toyota. I viewed the video and saw nothing wrong. RPMs went up to a normal number. If you slammed it into first RPMs would have red line immediately. Come on Toyota you are better than this. Bring back the V8 Tundra and V6 tacoma
...... with a proper manual....
no... not if the clutch granaded before the actual redline. Not like it was fully engaged and it didn't reach redline, IT BROKE before reaching redline, so it's still possible
@@jamesnunez1703I'm not buying it. He wasn't confident in his manual skills as he eluded to in the video. Do you want the nanny controls to prevent you from hurting yourself, or do you want to have the freedom to make expensive mistakes?
Yes. Totally agree.
Growing up around Nissan and Toyota trucks. Seeing this really bothers me about the long term reliability and cost of maintenance in the second hand market. I still think Nissan did it right with keeping the V6 and 9 speed automatic. Maybe the automatic is better than the manual in this case. I dont know, but it doesn't convince me to go out and buy a Toyota anymore than going out and buying a Chevy Colorado or Ford Ranger. Great video though. 😊
TFL's new Tacoma had a failure in the front diff. Not a good sign to have multiple different failures.
Specially, in easier driving conditions!
funny story about that, its an old military trick that if your off road trying to get up an obstacle with an open front diff you can slam on the brake pedal while under throttle to coerce the diff to send power to the wheel that isn't spinning (however this runs the risk of bending tie-rods or worse) Anywho, I have an old 88 Dakota with 450,000 + miles on, I beat on in the woods some times and have done this quite a few times under full throttle lol. Do you know what breaks? Nothing. But thats odd a, truck I paid $ 1000 dollars for 15 years ago still being reliable Vs whatever orange thing is. Ah I forgot to mention, the dakotas a manual transmission and I use 4 wheel Low on the trail.
But there is no garuntee's in life, other than an old stinky Dodge I guess. lol
Toyota 2024 is not the company its reputation was built on.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
FYI, I had a 2018 Tacoma TRD PRO. No issues.
I sold it and bought a 2023 Tundra 1794 edition.
It’s been a nice truck but the Tacoma was bullet proof.
I see a lot of issues on UA-cam regarding the new Tacoma.
@@sikandershah9619 I just bought a 2018 TRD Pro a few months ago, maybe I bought your truck 😂
when did they get their reputation in the first place? Because the 3VZE in the late 80's, 90's Pickup and 4Runner was a complete trainwreck. So, when did all that happen?
the 4runner is, still 100% made in japan, but '25 is pos
It doesn't Smell like Clutch.. It's the smell of a Recall 😂
Toyota hates to do recalls and always wait until they have no choice at the expense of the consumer.
My friend at work bought the new Tundra with the twin turbo V6. Three weeks into ownership the engine blew and Toyota replaced it under warranty. Tundra, Tacoma both having serious malfunctions. Toyota, are you buying parts from the lowest bidders???
It's the car market, reliability doesn't sell new cars, the car market is flooded and in trouble, and the epa and crash rating is killing the market
Regardless of what happened, I really appreciate you waiting for Toyota’s feedback instead of chasing clicks.
Great to see your integrity.
Not sure they feel that way now.
Toyota only behaves nicely when its a celebrity or a youtube channel with followers. Regular customers i see online, toyota doesnt give a shit. Dealer and toyota treat normal customers really bad
I think waiting is BS. UA-camrs are just trying to preserve their relationship with Toyota.
@@donjon1733 agreed
they are just afraid Toyota will blacklist them and keep them out of the loop on future product releases.
Having owned a manual 4cyl 4x4 Tacoma, I can attest to the fact the transmission locked me out of first at high RPM. The answer is at the beginning, they dropped 8HP because the transmission is weak. I heard it from Toyota myself.
The Hilux 2.8L diesel has only 310 lb-ft with the manual, 369 with the automatic.
Agreed. I own a 2018 TRD Sport 6MT and it locks me out of 1st gear if the RPMs aren't right.
@@halcyon_studiomy jeep (2021 MT) will scream (ie start beeping) at me if it thinks I'm going to downshift when the rpms are too high.
You are giving way too much credit to the 8hp. No way Toyota would put the transmission in a situation that 8hp is the determining factor of breaking or not. Those transmissions are built to handle more than the figures they give to the public. It's laughable that people believe this.
Lots of vehicles will lock out of 1st or it will be very difficult to move into 1st on older vehicles. I don't think this was a money shift. The rpms would've flew through the roof which they did not.
Toyota dropped the hp and torque ratings by 7 hp and 7ft lbs of torque to save the transmission ? Epic fail !!
No an epic fail would be the truck allowing 1st gear and gernading the engine instead of a relatively cheap part.
I noticed that too. Pretty scary if 7 hp is enough to endanger anything.
The idea that 7hp takes it from working to breaking is beyond imagination. The guy that said that should be fired.
@@TraceyAllen No...
Toyota should have designed a manual transmission that can handle MORE than the power of the engine it's attached to.
EPIC FAIL TOYOTA!!
@@TraceyAllen It is a fail, dropping the power by 7hp so the transmission doesnt brake? Sounds like a poorly engineered transmission, if 7hp makes that difference then there are bigger issues.
Purchased a new 22 TRD 6 cyl OR with manual. Do off-road and pull a small utility style camper. Love the truck and the manual. NO Problems. Checked 24 TRD OR pricing from same dealer earlier today before commenting. I paid $38,500 (out the door) + tag & tax 2 years ago. Today's TRD OR manual price, without all the extras included in my truck, $52K (without tag & tax). No way would I want a 4 with a turbo attached. Keep It Simple. By the way, I downshift all the time.
Love that a button to hold you from rolling is revolutionary, before we just had a hand brake.
😂
My 11 year old dodge diesel holds the brake down for you on an incline. They're acting like its super special.
@@NuclearT3acup exactly.
Im starting to think people never realized that the incline anti-roll back was a thing, so now they get away with advertising it like it’s a new feature.
yup, I'm a delivery driver for UPS and they used to tell us, to keep from rolling backwards on a steep hill, mash the gas pedal to the floor until the poor little turbo diesel built up enough revs to kick in and then release the hand brake 😂
The new Taco manual trans has been breaking -- causing lockout of 2, 4, and 6th gears. Auto transmissions have overheated on several reviews. Glass front diff on TFL's truck. Now glass clutch on TK's Taco. What in the world is Toyota doing?
Doesn’t sound good for the Taco. I know it isn’t a totally new model, but they always say don’t buy the first generation of a vehicle. Wait until the bugs are worked out.
If I'm Toyota, I'm taking a LONG look at Long Beach which makes a bunch of Tacoma components.
I had a 2005 Taco with the 6 spd man that missed shifts all the time (all of my trucks prior to then were manuals) and the dealer basically tried to tell me that I just couldn't drive. I had to double clutch many times just to get the truck to go into gear. Toyota had a really sweet 5 spd for many years but the 6 spd was a real mess from the getgo.
But Tim at pick up truck plus said the taco auto trans is designed to overheat
Toyota sold themselves to the globalists period. Removing people’s wealth is the idea! Weakening the individual. Toyota leadership team should be fired… period. Lexus and Toyota are both compromised! So sad!
LMAO this is absolutely insane.
My first manual was a 1985 Jetta. I raced and danced that clutch up and down like a maniac for years... Never failed. This Tacoma is 40 years newer and it's fragile like this?????
They're out of their mind.
That transmission is garbage. In the Hilux the 2.8L diesel has only 310 lb-ft with the manual, 369 with the automatic.
I still abuse the transmission on my 2-owner 1992 Ford Ranger STX 4x4 and as I approach 200k it's only had one clutch/ flywheel replacement. Toyota not designing a better manual to handle the higher output and behavior of this engine is a dismal failure.
made in china quality
Toyota of Japan needs to fire the US division yesterday…
But Japan signed off and worked with the US team.
The Japanese division just got caught cheating emissions standards, there might be more than one isolated incident
@@Dpharm597 GUANAJUATO - Toyota Motor de México has begun production in 2024 of the fourth generation of its iconic Tacoma pickup, a model that has been produced entirely in Mexico for almost 20 years.
Sadly their made in Mexico
It is not a Toyota of Japan product it is Toyota of North America which is a bunch of ex american engineers that fell into Toyota after the fall of the big 3. No one is making quality anything anymore. There is no money in making things to last. They need you in the shop paying for repairs to make money and they are using the market for r&d so the consumer pays and pays and pays.
Your dad clearly knows how to drive a manual. I have driven manuals for 25 years and I know that if I deliberately shift from 5th to 3rd, I can feel instantly if I accidentally throw it all the way over to 1st gear. Most people would. Shifting into the wrong gear almost always happens during intense driving where you're trying to bang through the gears as quickly as possible. Unintentionally going from the 5th to 1st doesn't happen when you are slowly and deliberately going from 5th to 3rd. You can feel when you go to far. There's a resistance in the shifter if you try to pull it over too far and into 1st at speed like this. My guess is that the rev-match feature is poorly tuned for skipping gears in a downshift and the engine didn't blip the gas enough. I would love to see the clutch froma 4th gen compared to the clutch from a 2nd or 3rd gen Taco. My guess is that like many of the other components in the 4th gen, some cost-cutting has been going on.
He did a burnout
As someone who was a dealer tech for years i will tell you right now. We had obvious parts failures and the service department even after us telling them a part failed would find a way to blame it on the customer. 90% of the time that happened
This is becoming a nasty trend among many business in many different industries. They don’t want to pay anymore…they are doing everything possible to put things on the consumer. Not good.
@@andrewsnyder9262 It all starts with corruption in Washington DC. And inflation, making the dollar almost worthless. What happens in Washington DC, really affects the economy around the world. Which affects quality. Quality has been lacking with all products. We have technologies to make everyone wealth. The corrupt Elites are not going to be able to stop what is coming. Prosperity for all.
The manual cant handle 280hp? That's pathetic.
It's usually the clutch or the flywheel that gets damaged. Not the gear, as the damage doesn't continue further in. The clutch / flywheel junction takes most of the stress at that instance.
agreed
@@Take_America_Back my bet is the gear box is very robust. The failure here was in the clutch unit. Which makes sense given the clutch gets destroyed before the damage can continue further into the gears.
The new turbo trucks have more torque at low RPM. It's a lot more torque at low RPM compared to the NA V6.
Having a weak transmission is not good.
It more about the torque limitation (420nm) ~ 310ft-lbs it’s the same situation with the hilux diesel the manual version is limited at 420nm of torque.
Truck King said a lot without saying much. Thanks for staying honest.
Looks like the Frontier is looking better and better.
Can’t break manual transmission if you don’t offer one! Smart Nissan!
@@ItsAlive111nobody who drives a lot really wants a manual transmission.
@@Commentleaver-c6xspeak for yourself
I have manuals. Dinosaurs. Especially offroading.
😂😂
Pretty sad to see Toyota underbuilding things. I caught a lot of heat in my videos for this, this is not the only manual that has died. The rev match shows that it should not have destroyed the clutch. Thanks for being as honest as you can with this and actually releasing the video :).
Toyota engineers have already been on camera saying they detuned the manual because the drivetrain couldn't handle the force of someone dropping the clutch if it wasn't detuned, I think we can read between the lines.
Yep. Windshield camera would also prove, but we will have to settle for the clutch pedal on the floor & their denial to gain enough breadcrumbs.
After thinking about it, I highly expect toyota added that "feature" to prevent the weak clutch from breaking. They call it a feature but really its a bandaid for a underrated design.
As someone who drives a manual every day "2008 F-150 5 speed manual" I go from 5th to 3rd all the time & the truck just finds 3rd, it has never even tried to go back to 1st, so I call BS on this. He did nothing wrong, the Toyota failed period.
The Toyota broke & they're trying to blame their poor quality on someone.
And just like that Toyota destroyed their reputation just to make some $$$
Was thinking of getting a TRD Pro when they were initially teasing the 4th gens but after their full reveal and insane pricing, I think I’m going the Ranger Raptor route.
@@Jomonjimore bang for your buck. Brother loves his.
And their new trucks are way over priced compared to almost everything else
And ugly as a butthole fence in a rainstorm!
@@Jomonjijust a reminder ford recalled a bunch of the f150 for dropping from any gear into 1st gear I’ve heard over 50000 trucks where recalled not sure if rangers where affected
The politeness of Canadians is near British. We all know that truck didn't even red line.
Of course it didn't. The shafts over spinning at that rate and resistance completely broke their clutch. Didn't even have time to redline. 🤦🏾♂️
I'm saying that what they did had nothing to do with the failure of that truck. All the while Toyohtah blamed them. I know how rematch works. I use it in a Chevy.
@@erod6468 this guy doesn’t get it. Your exactly right the sudden speed increase flung the clutch apart. This is a missed shift all day long. I actually think Toyota was the one being polite. They should have just said, “Y’all are retarded goofs!”
@@erod6468 If you do a 5-1 downshift at 55 mph, the engine is going to overrev even if the clutch breaks due to said overrev. Go watch some videos of guys doing 5-1 "money shifts". I've witnessed someone doing a that exact kind of shift and it's violent. The clutch just doesn't go poof and the engine revs a little. The tires momentarily chirp as the backend tries to kick out, weight transfers forward onto the front wheels, the engine shoots past red line instantaneously, and a connecting rod breaks and punches a window in the side of your block. In fact, there's a legendary video of a kid in his moms Toyota Camry street racing against another car and does a money shift. The clutch was definitely destroyed, but he also left a 100 yard long trail of oil and engine parts behind him. Bizarre how this guy supposedly does the exact same thing but the engine doesn't even come close to red line, the truck's tires make no sound, and all that happens is a clutch disintegrates. Red line in first gear is barely over 20 mph. If you do a 5-1 shift and let the truck rev match at 55 mph, i don't care what you say, that engine is going to try to hit 10k RPM and the gear tires are going to make some noise, even if for only a fraction of a second. And you will absolutely window the block. That's why it's called a "money shift" because you destroy the engine, clutch, and probably the transmission too. We didn't see that here.
@@erod6468you can hear the clutch screaming! OLD GUY HIT THE WRONG GEAR w
lol, Toyota blamed TFL for their Tacoma breaking, they claim that TFL had it in the wrong mode for the environment/conditions it was in, so they supposedly updated the software to adjust the torque delivery so that that it doesn’t happen again.
I’ve never seen a company have such a hit on their hand, release a vehicle with terrible value like this.
How about get rid of all the software bullshit and just make components out of steel that doesn't snap going over a pebble.
The worst part of that interview with the Toyota guy is not once was the fact the Toyota doesn't even have a front locker. Yet despite the fact that the Chevy comes with a front locker and more torque I haven't seen any video of anyone breaking their front axle.
@@djjd3027 The chevys clutch based 4wd system will overheat and turn off well before getting anywheres near snapping an axle
@@371kenny The bigger issue is that Toyota is cost cutting their trucks more and more. They moved axle production for the Tacoma from a Hino plant in the US to a Hino plant in Thailand for the 2016 model year and the differentials have been garbage. It wouldn't surprise me if they cost cut the clutch and other driveline components the same way. All while moving assembly to Mexico to save 97% of their labor costs and raising Tacoma prices by $10-20k. It's a joke
@@dawsongranger4940 You have to be doing something particularly ignorant to overheat the clutch in the transfer case of GM's 4WD. Like that idiot on youtube that tested a ZR2 a whille back and instead of using the front and rear selectable lockers like any normal off-roader, he wanted to show off how he could drag the brake with open diffs to mimic having a locked diff and the computer would disengage 4-low once he applied more than 50% brake.
A 3rd or 4th gen Tacoma has zero risk of snapping an axle. The garbage Thai-made ring and pinion Toyota uses in those trucks are so fragile that every one of the thin little teeth on the ring gear will shear off well before the axle shaft comes close to snapping. The gear sets have been terrible ever since Toyota moved axle manufacturing out of the US.
Blaming it on the dad here is almost worse than saying it’s a manufactured defect. So if you’re off a centimeter on a shift the transmission explodes, not even under warranty. How is someone supposed to teach their kids how to drive in this truck. I think I did that move 3 times the first time I drove my dad’s Hyundai when he makes me drive stick. Also it highlights that have to drive perfectly for the lifetime of the truck with no mistakes. This guy has been driving for probably 40+ years. No wonder why they don’t put paddle shifters as an option
If it was a money shift, the clutch failure saved the engine. Personally, I'm not going to second guess it. Mistakes happen. I've gone 5-2 instead of 5-4 on track before. I just didn't let up on the clutch. Went back to neutral and coasted the straight while my heart re-started. If that was not a car I drove every day for years, I may not have noticed that it didn't feel right in the .01 seconds before I re-engaged.
I haven't driven it, but the rev matching feature looks horrible. I don't even want that in my track car.
Part of the art and beauty of driving a manual is the ability to slightly vary rpm to create an "attitude" or "style" of shift that meets the immediate need. It's hard to explain as a not-auto-engineer, but the exact speeds match depends on whether you are going to accelerate, decelerate, or coast. The transmission and tires have some play that can absorb some of the excess energy in the flywheel (or wheels & body) - that preload is taken out when you disconnect the transmission under acceleration or deceleration. Very slight differences in the shift point can bring that preload back into the assembly as you re-engage with excessive slip. Maybe the computer can do that for you - but I feel like the people buying a manual transmission these days are the people who don't want it to.
Can it predict the gear you will select? Better - can you deactivate the feature?
Can you heal and toe the thing? I used to heal and toe my dad's 81 ram. I just had to wear proper truck driving boots - couldn't do it in OMP's or Simpsons. That thing was a riot with no power, no grip, a heavy truck with a massive flywheel, and a powerful clutch that activated in 1/2" of it's 12" motion range.
There are just too many failures with the Tacoma right now. Transmissions overheating, front differentials breaking, etc. Seems like Toyota made an inferior vehicle and charged $10,000 more than the prior generation.
Between this and TFL, Toyotas COPE game is strong!
I own a 3rd gen tacoma, i think its OKAY but i only got it for the reliability. I want 300k miles out of this truck. I like how basic it is. Since becoming an owner I’ve noticed that toyota fans are just a cult. Thats fine as long as Toyota gives their cult reliability. NOW their vehicles arent reliable and the cult cant admit it. The cult of toyota dick riders make me sick. Toyota will never change if youre a customer that lines up to be spoon feed shit. They act like its their fault when toyota sells them an overpriced and underengineered turd. These idiots are really paying 40-70k for a 4banger turd
I am a Toyota fanboy but this is just plain sad to see… Your pops did nothing out of the ordinary. So 50K+ for this built in Mexico truck, nope sorry.
Not engineered in Mexico 🤡. It’s 💯 American engineered
Mexico has fuck all to do with it. This is spreadsheet engineering. They made it cheaper. So they make more per truck. And that decision was made by some c suite jackwagon in the good ole USA. Corporations are fucking you. Not Mexicans or whatever other Boogeyman your Facebook is pushing.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k.
They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
Everything is built like crud now. Clutch should've had no problem with that at all. These trucks are simply junk now, just like all others.
Hey guys just watched your video of the 2024 solar octane off road when the clutch let let go I have a new 2024 trd sport with the 6speed manual got in in late March 2500 miles and lost 2nd 4th & 6th gear without warning sitting at the the dealer with the transmission on back order NOT HAPPY!!
He didn't push the shifter that hard. Going from 5th to 1st gear should have been nearly impossible. When I was an inexperienced manual driver I accidentally did that. I obviously backed off as soon as I realized but it wouldn't have been easy to push the shifter all the way into 1st gear at those speeds.
Yes I also did this when I was a teen in a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix clone built in same factory). I shift into first no problem with the clutch in, only when I start to release the clutch did I feel immense pressure and pushed right back in. I smell a rat in Tacoma
The fact the truck is tuned to have lower power is the biggest red flag imaginable. Makes me think it barely holding together. Tac says 3rd and no redline. Kinda think toyota is trying to salvage there reputation at the moment
@jeanclaude7018 To be sure, but that was Ram. And thankfully they finally have real transmissions starting 2019.
Hey, even redlining shouldn't destroy a clutch just like that
Toyota was always supposed to be overbuilt so paying a little more made sense. I think the computer rev matching played a huge part in this and Hopefully they can fix the issues.
The Hilux 2.8L diesel has only 310 lb-ft with the manual but 369 lb-ft with the automatic. The manual is ancient and can't handle turbo torque.
Yes, I don't understand this. I have the 3rd gen manual and they didn't detune it - both the manual and auto are 278 hp.
Only one way to find out. Repeat the test.
Without releasing the clutch.
everybody that can drive a manual should go test this 5th to 3rd downshift in a tacoma test drive
They should also hit redline in first to see what the max speed is in 1st
@@spyder000069 that's a good idea. Go to Toyota dealership and test drive one and have cameras directly over the manual shifter to go from 5 to 3rd gear and see what happens
It looks like more poor quality control issues with the new Toyota trucks. So many transmission problems and drivetrain issues, I’m glad I bought my Frontier Pro4x.
Frontier = 7,000 RPM!!! 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
You can't tell by watching the clip if the down shift was into 3rd or 1st. All I can say is, 1st and 3rd gear are really close on the gear shift. A little too much pressure to the left can easily give you 1st instead of 3rd. Also, my guess is the rev matching would make it easier to hit 1st by accident. Despite what is likely user error, Toyota has a problem. This type of error can easily happen, and the gear box/transmission should somehow prevent this shift.
You can tell he didn't go into first. The rpms didn't go through the roof. Looks like the rpms only hit about 4500. The transmission is garbage.
@@Eastsidegeorgiaboy Toyota's will fail on purpose if the action exceeds a certain resistance. The reason is so no other part will fail. It protects the engine. It's a failsafe. There is no way you can know if it was first or third. All you can say for certain was that the tolerance was exceeded and the clutch failed. If it's a two gear downshift then tens of thousands of Toyota's should be failing (since the shift system is used in multiple vehicles in different countries).
if he tried to go into first, everyone would have flown towards the dash while metal parts would have littered the roadway. There was no "money shift" in this video, just Toyota desperately trying to shift the blame elsewhere.
@@Zorbino88 In the olden days the shifter would have kicked back hard if you tried to force it. These days manufactures build in failure points to save the vehicle and prevent dangerous situations like that.
I did this on a Infinity G35 back in the day. It took it like a champ, I sold it about a year later still working fine.
So they blame you? I beat the living crap out of my 93 Chevy K1500 for 12 years, on and off road. Never once did I break the clutch or front diff. This Toyota is simply a cheap modern truck like all the rest and whoever would pay the ridiculous price for it is a schmuck.
I get it, a lot of reviewers do not want to burn that bridge with Toyota and the future vehicles. So doing this is a plus to us consumers thanks!
For crying out loud, now they even F'd up a manual gearbox with too many features. Who needs all that chit anyway ?
Government regulations are in force on all auto companies everything nowadays is for better fuel efficiency
Yep. The simpler, the less chit to break
That is such a BS from Toyota. Down shifting from 5th to 3rd is not uncommon, and I highly doubt your dad went from 5th to 1st gears will grind before they even engage In more than likely won't engage
Wow, I can't believe the manufacturer is trying to weasel their way out of this by blaming the customer for something that obviously didn't happen.
Toyota has destroyed their brand.
Toyota is passing blame.
Absolutely
Based on the rpm reading it was third gear and not first sad to see a company like toyota trying to hide poor quality with such non sensé excuses
Yep, they're lying to deflect blame.
Yea only went to 4500 rpm
Also, at least to me, it doesn't look like he succeeded in engaging either 1st or 3rd gear. We need a more thorough explanation from Toyota.
Well, time will tell if future owners experience the same problems.
I think that’s BS that Toyota is laying the blame on you guys!
My 2016 VW won’t even let me engage into first at speed. Why isn’t there a lockout feature until slow enough on this newer Toyota ?
My 1999 Mustang GT with 260hp has had the clutch dumped every time I get in for fun for the past 25 years and 84k miles and one clutch plate later 8 years ago and I just dumped it again for fun! Toyota what a clown response just put 25 year old Mustang transmissions in for real reliability 😅
One missed shift and your clutch is toast? No thanks. Anyone who drives a manual can tell you missed shifts happen and this is unacceptable.
Get in whatever it is you drive. Get it up to speed in 5th. Jam it in 1st. I’ll wait…..
so you saying it Truck King mistake not toyota...
@@xbryanthegreatx every manual vehicle I’ve ever driven will not allow a shift from 5th to 1st so if that is what happened then I still blame Toyota for lack of lockout
@@Jay-bw3fl I can’t speak to this 4th gen but 3rd gen only have reverse lockout.
@@Jay-bw3fl I'm with you. You'd never even get close to dropping from 5th to 1st without at least some audible warning. I don't remember hearing anything that would warrant "Danger" while watching the video. Glad I didn't get a manual Toyota, and certainly wouldn't go around bragging now if I did.
Apparently, the truck is made of glass. You can’t do much with it. Otherwise you’re gonna break it. Pretty much very unlike truck behavior not to mention the current tundra with its engine issues, Toyota has missed the mark with both of these trucks very disappointing, especially since the enormous MSRP price hike.
The only reason you bought the last gen was because of the sheer abuse it could handle, if a tacoma can't handle abuse it's not a toyota truck. Used 2023s are selling for the same price as the brand new ones
20 years ago I knew a guy that had a ‘01 S Runner Tacoma. It had the TRD supercharger and exhaust. It was a sweet truck. It was still under warranty and he wanted to put a TRD clutch in it so he had the crazy idea to destroy the factory clutch and have it replaced under warranty and then just pay the cost difference in the upgrade to the TRD clutch. So we started driving like total idiots. Redline dumping the clutch in 5th gear. Riding around with the clutch half pressed, hard dropping with no rev matching non stop idiocy. I swear it took us a month to finally destroy that clutch and it never grenaded. We were able to drive it to the dealer slipping like hell the whole way. So I call bull on Toyota’s response to this. Oh and also the Southeast Toyota Regional warranty manager was pissed off about having to replace the clutch on a truck with less than 10k miles on it. He said there was no way this truck should need a new clutch. They did replace it under warranty though.
That’s called being an asshole.
Love your Dad's comments about being engaged while driving. Great advice for everyone!
I’ve had an 84 Toyota 4WD, 86 2wd, 98 2wd and currently have a 2020 Tundra Crewmax 4WD. Never, in any of them did I have a problem with anything except a thermostat got stuck in the 86 onetime, changed it and was good to go.
What are you doing Toyota?
Remember that time you named the Tacoma truck of the year without even reviewing it?
Toyota cheque didn’t clear.
Can't find the original video...strange only posted months later
They can’t and don’t account for reliability. How can they? They base it off of new features, comfort, economy, etc.
They said they waited until Toyota send reason for failure.@@ant208
Fanboyism runs strong
Damn, two Tacomas breaking during reviews and the new Tundra engine being known for failure, wtf Toyota?
Oh what a new feeling.
Toyota has been on a downhill slide since the 90s
My question is..."if your dad did do something incorrect. I blame Toyota for not putting better quality parts inside to handle something like that."
That’s not a question.
A 5th to 1st downshift can destroy any trans or engine. But it's not clear if that's actually the case here.
Do you even drive a manual transmission???? If so, money shift the thing to the moon and tells us how it goes.
Right? If they have a feature that suggests you may go from 5th to 3rd, or whatever gear to gear…you best have a mechanical stop in place to prevent this from occurring. The response from Toyota is a bit haughty.
I have owned 3 modern manual transmission vehicles. None of them would allow me to shift into 1st gear once I had exceeded the operational rpm/mph.
I had 4 cylinder 4x4 auto in 99, the freakin thing was bullet proof at 26 mpg, you couldnt kill it
I had an old 1970’s Dodge Ram with the 4-speed manual. Within a week, the clutch lever just sheared off. Upon inspection, the problem was a “bubblegum” weld…you know those beginning metal welds we attempted in 9th grade metal shop? Talk about cheap!
Did I say that the truck was brand new…? It was! What a crime…
Most modern manual transmissions won't allow you to put the transmission into first gear above a particular speed. This sounds like BS.
Exactly what I said
@Boltdriver70 On my 6 spd subaru WRX you can't even put the car into 1st gear above 15 mph. Most car manufacturers have figured out that preventing money shifts is a good idea. Seems like poor design to me if that's what killed it.
@@jaredgates4310 I can't do that with my manual 13 mustang gt either toyota is lying their ass off. Plus the truck never went above 4500 rpm and it should handle that easily
And it would be super obvious if it went into first gear at 55 mph. That's 10k rpm at that speed. It would instantly throw a rod and make a new inspection port in the block. The rear tires would squeal and whip around due to the sudden change in wheel speed. The engine here to 4500 rpm. I think Toyota has a bad calibration for rev-matching downshifts and as a result it damaged the clutch. It really seems like Toyota chose to retain a driveline that's built to handle the power of the older engines, but the new engine makes a low more torque, so Toyota is trying to save money by limiting power to protect the undersized components instead of beefing things up. That's why the manual had to have the power-limited version of the engine and why the 4WD broke when TFL was testing it. It's possibly even why the transmission has been having overheating issues. They tried to do things on the cheap and the powertrain can't handle the additional power.
My subaru can't stop me from going from 5th to 1st and i don't want it to. He tried to jam it it about 6 times so each try is speeding up the transmission input shaft and thus the clutch disk. It never went into gear, but that doesn't mean the transmission input shaft and clutch disk wasn't speeding up with every try.
I suppose it's not a coincidence that TFL and TK release videos with explanations of failures within 30 minutes of each other.
Nope it is not. It is showing there are some issues that need to be ironed out.
Russian collusion
Sheldon being exported to Japan and taking a vow of silence and quality control training
Toyota embargo on breakage info lifting at the same time.
And 5 months after it happened, while thousands of customers are buying it not knowing the truth.
Way to be transparent guys - bummer about the taco. Keep up the videos.
After waiting a few months for Toyota's permission.
I thought a lot of modern manuals had speed or sensor lock outs to keep you from accidentally down shifting dangerously into the wrong gear? I'm fairly certain my mustang had that from 2006, but I could be wrong.
That’s strange. My 2012 jk 6 speed wouldn’t go into gear at all if tried to go from 5th to 1st. Maybe if I forced it, but I’m sure it would make way more noise than that Tacoma did.
I've been driving manual transmissions my whole life, I don't believe for one minute that your dad shifted into 1st, that rear end would have locked right up and squealed the tires, and even if he did put it into 1st by accident, it broke way prematurely (that is one weak clutch). The RPM never even red lined before it broke. I don't know about these newer manuals with their fancy dancy rev matching bull crap, but all the manuals I have driven would be extremely difficult to go from 5th to 1st. The tire speed would just not allow it until the vehicle slows down quite a bit. I'm calling bull on Toyota, they know what the issue is, but they aren't saying. Toyota has been having nothing but trouble with these new trucks. I was going to buy this exact same truck, but the price tag was to buku, so I ended up getting a Honda Ridgeline Trailsport instead, and other than missing the manual transmission, I love the Ridgeline.
100% exactly my experience as well. that clutch is made of glass or something. toyota better step it up.
You are right. Plus it would have been a bitch to even get it to sync to first gear.
Honda Ridgeline Trailsport sweet!
Good Move!
The clutch pedal was still depressed. The transmission spun the clutch disc faster than normal operating range when he selected 1st gear. The engine reving up whether to redline or not didn't matter because he had the clutch pedal down; clutch not engaged.
You need to understand how everything works.
The next thing to check since it "grind" really bad is the hub slider and dog teeth on first gear. Selecting 3rd will not grind like that from 5th gear because the gear spacing isn't that far off.
I agree with you. I am saying they know if they forced that thing into first from 5th. Would feel nothing like 5 to 3.
Imagine naming this truck of the year when you didn't even drive it... oh wait.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k.
They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
@@stoggy4839 rewatch the video during the time it happens. it spikes to 5.5 from 3k. never hit redline. these manuals were detuned so they didnt blow dumping the clutch they obviously are weak transmissions
As if made in USA is any better. Remember, it's Toyota USA that designed this hunk of junk.
@@jamesfreeman7954 American cars are trash now, and so is Toyota. So that's a strawman, pointless comment.
Where the f did you get 7k rpm?? 😂 The thing didn't even make it close to 6k🤡🤡 END OF STORY @@stoggy4839
Toyota spent more technology on clutch start cancel instead of spending more reliability of the vehicle.
Facts:
*5th gear to lower gear shift
*gear grind really bad
*never went into gear on downshift
*90km/hr (55.9mph) speed @2000rpm cruising per video
- Investigation -
Gear ratios; 1st 4.78, 2nd 2.42, 3rd 1.44, 4th 1.00, 5th 0.78, 6th 0.64, FINAL 4.300.
CRUISING @2000rpm is right above 90km/hr. Per the gear ratios, the gear spacing at that vehicle speed should bring 3rd gear RPM to only 3700rpm.
The transmission synchro has no problem with that small of a RPM gap. The grind that was mentioned is very likely due to selecting 1st gear. The synchros job is to spin up or down the speed of the transmission components from there on up to the clutch disc to match the output speed due to the gear ratio. That speed did not match while force was being applied to engage the hub sleeve to the dog gear. This results in the teeth on the hub sleeve skipping on the dog gear teeth on the side of the gear, which is the grind you hear. Since the speed never matched, the gear being selected never engaged. The ecu tried to rev up the engine but is limited to the rev limiter. Correct, the TACH never shows it hitting redline, but actual crank speed may be higher. They never felt the instant deceleration because the gear was NEVER engaged AND the clutch was still disengaged. Fun fact, clutch disc speed would have reached 12,000rpms if the gear engaged.
Sorry, not sorry...
And therefore the clutch should never have broken!!
"User error" cannot be the culprit, because if your father would had done that over-rev Toyota said, it would had blown the engine to pieces, the infamous "money shift", and look, it was only the clutch. Fortunately it would be something cheaper to repair than rebuild or mount an automatic transmission.
Second Tacoma blowing up on a UA-cam channel.
This is NOT the same Toyota that I was driving throughout the 1980’s.
Maybe they should abandon all that unneeded crap and just start building manuals like they did 30 years ago. If you can’t start from a hill or rev match yourself, maybe you should just drive an automatic.
This guy, TFL and TRD Jon , all 3 of there 4th gen tacomas took a shit 😂
Truth will set you free
TRD Jon's was a sensor/actuator issue on the grill shutter, and while that is a known issue even with Tundra's, I would not consider that "taking a shit." TFL's was a one off software/coding issue that nobody else experienced (afaik) and the traction control system sent 100% of the torque to 1 wheel while the traction control was trying to control that wheel. Toyota already has the logic change, applied it to the Trailhunter and TRD Pro, and last I heard Sheldon is working on applying it to the rest of the TRD OR's that have MTS.
and now Icon, thats 4 out of 4!
It would have red lined if you went from 5th to 1st! They are lying
Even if it didn't show on the dash for some reason, the ecu should have recorded the over-rev event.
Not necessarily, sounds like the clutch grenaded before it could make the shift and I'd be surprised if they would let the rev match blip go to redline.
But they never said what actually broke after 3 months. It would be nice to know what the damage was and what the repair bill would be if it was a money shift.
It's not going to redline if it fails to complete the shift or if the transmission grenades while going into gear.
It didn't even go into gear. The rev-up was the auto rev-match anticipating the 5-3 shift.
*LITERALLY at **12:35** "it redlined you there"*
You likely exploded the clutch.
You were at 2000rpm at 5th. Tacoma transmission had a ratio of .777 for 5th and 4.784 for 1st gear. That is an increase in multiplication of 6.15 when you go from 5th to 1st.
Your clutch is at 2000rpm in 5th gear. As soon as you jam it into 1st gear, the clutch would be spinning at 2000rpm X 6.15 = 12,300 rpm!!!! And I do say you jammed it into first because you can hear the crunch as you went into gear. Even if the clutch pedal is down, once you are in gear, the input shaft is already spinning at 12,300rpm. There will be no jerks or over rev of the engine. You won't feel anything.
Curious why the pedal went to the floor. Would have to look at the damage to see which parts failed. Likely the clutch plate is first to disintegrate.
One other note is that the Tacoma transmission has an unusual large range compared to a passenger car. Great of off-road, but more likely to explode a clutch with mis-shifts.
I have driven a lot of Toyota vehicles before and most of it was manual transmission and it never had catastrophic failure like what you guys had. It’s totally a factory defect.
I think its pretty clear rhey know they didnt miss the shift. They just dont want to lose their access to future Toyota products by standing their ground and arguing it was not user error.
Yep
Bull, daddy screwed the pouch and went from 5th gear down to 1st gear, you can hear the gears grinding trying to engage and the RPM's spiked, the only reason the RPM indicator did not go deep into the red is because the ECU was attempting to control the over revving.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869I have to disagree. If he had selected first (you CANNOT select 1st at speed, trans locks you out), it would have locked up the rear tires as the engine began to over rev. Also, the ECU would have logged the gear (modern manuals know which gear you're in at all times, especially ones with rev matching). Toyota would have said "the logs show 1st gear was engaged and over rev to 8k rpm" or whatever rpm it hit. Toyota did not say that, they said the damage is in line with a large rpm change. Even if he did the money shift, and the clutch exploded before the rear wheels locked or the engine over revved, that means this clutch is far too weak for this off road truck application and will see early/often failures. ALL of that said, I do think TK should have shown the dash-looking-back camera view for the incident because you would be able to see where his arm goes during the shift. They used this view leading up to it and you can see him in 3rd, 4th, 5th.
@@mustangecoboosthpp3869my Jeep has a Toyota transmission and it locks me out of 2nd and 1st if it doesn’t like my speed. For instance when I was braking in my motor and manual, I’d down shift a lot and if I was 1 mph over what it wanted me to be at, I was locked out.
The guy driving even says, im going to rev it to 5k and then down shift to 3rd. He spiked the RPMs to 7k. The truck redlines at 5.5k.
They blew the clutch up. END OF STORY.
He didn't miss he doesn't know what the fuck he is doing.
Wait. They made a manual that can't handle 280hp ?
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Lower the HP and torque so you can run the manual transmission at the edge.
That struck me too. Seems like they designed it for picking up groceries. What else can’t it handle…. Cold air intake? Pulling a boat? Long stints over-landing? I wouldn’t trust anything where the engineers had to nerf the motor for it to work lol.
@@Pigsooie2k16with all these Toyota issues I wonder if Toyota is cutting the legs out from underneath their suppliers and forcing them to cut too much costs, resulting in quality issues.
One question though: most modern manuals will lock you out of a gear if the revs are too high -- does this transmission not have this feature?
Toyota does use cost cutting measures like every other company. People just tend to ignore it for some reason like how they ran drum brakes in the rear and put a marketing spin on it that all the fanboys ate up but the real reason was saving money
@@Vultite I know that much. But a manufacturing companies reliability is directly tied to the component quality that the suppliers provide them. At some point, if you cut the prices too low, quality begins to suffer on the component side, that's just basic economics. I'm wondering if Toyota has squeezed their suppliers too much -- which may be the reason they mentioned in their last quarterly earnings that they're going to provide their suppliers capital to address issues they've been having (staffing, component issues, etc).
And when regular people's trucks start falling apart, is Toyota going to blame them too?
Yeap, I was wondering what they would tell us regular normies and if they would cover the repairs or make us pay.
Yes! Yes they will
I bought my 4Runner out of warranty, but anecdotally, I see a lot of people in the 4Runner groups that seem to have trouble with the dealers. For instance, these are super sensitive to wheel balance, and are prone to steering wheel shake. A lot of people are told by their dealers that it's normal.
If memory serves me right, all the manual cars I've owned have a first gear lockout above a certain speed. I would think that even without it the mismatch of gear speeds wouldn't even allow the gears to mesh?
Exactly right.
That may have been driver error. The grinding was possibly due to the wrong gear being selected. Forcing 5th to 1st will damage any gearbox. Should of backed off the shift and left that in the video. Instead, force it killed it. Also, if people cannot do hill starts without the tech or riding the clutch they should not drive a manual.
I blame the manufacturer. Not Truck King...been hearing about problems with these new 24' Tacoma models
Yeah, he did not downshift into 1st. That's BS.
I wish they had released the video when it happened. Kuddos to TFL for releasing their video early on. Not too impressed by them waiting this long.
@@duggydoit’s how you have to play the game sometimes. TFL is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) off road focused new vehicle channels on YT so they have some pull. Way back they damaged a 4Runner I believe and got blacklisted by Toyota for a while. I’m sure the TK guys don’t want to tarnish relationships with manufacturers so sometimes you gotta tread carefully.
@@volvo09 I agree.. and you could hear the grinding... it never went into a gear in general
@@75zl1 5 to 3 doesn't grind. He messed up bad.
Go watch the latest TFL video where they talk about why the front diff broke. Basically the engineer said the front diff was pushed to a "mere" 1.7% over design spec. This means these trucks are not over engineered at all. Not even to a mere 1.7%. Can we please look into whether Toyota was bought in it's entirety by Tata motors or BYD motors?
its the same reason they had to de-tune the engine and take a few horsepower off for the manual in the first place... they are pushing everything to their maximum with inferior parts. Toyota has changed philosophies in the last few years and decided they can lose some reliability if they can increase their profits.
I saw that. The 1.7% limit breach and they have to software patch it to limit the scenario... I'm a software engineer, and we always were the "clowns" compared to professional engineers, but today the tables are turning. The car customers are being treated like Windows software customers. FYI - this mode of quality assurance sucks for the customer
I also believe TK Sr did not downshift into 1st gear from 5th but shifted into 3rd gear, which IMO, is the easiest gear to shift into when driving a 5-speed manual. All you do to shift into 3rd is, while the clutch is pressed down, move the stick from the neutral position forward. The tachometer almost certainly would've shown an rpm spike at/in redline. You would've also heard the rpm spike.
Having driven manuals (Toyota, Mazda) for every day use for 20+ years, I found it actually scary to downshift into 1st gear (sometimes the shift stick actually makes you feel you're about to do something wrong), even when driving only 50mph (80kph). You also almost certainly would grind gears trying to push the stick into 1st.
This wasn't user error but just like Toyota's answer for what happened with TFL's Blueberry Tacoma, it could be a rare alignment of circumstances (i.e., where multiple parts and programming exceeded in-design tolerances simultaneously) that led to something breaking. I think the clutch breaking probably needs further research.
Clutch cancel has been out for 30+ years... I had a 1986 4 runner SR5 which meant 5 speed back then.. had clutch cancel. There was a button with no lettering and a small little light on the left side that no one knew what was for... on every truck even into 1st gen tacoma. Like wtf people.
You guys do great reviews with great content and information
I highly doubt that man missed 3rd gear, these new Tacos will be a nightmare in a few years.
Just wait until fan boys start "overlanding" with 35's or bigger tires.
Sheldon told TFL they don't want people putting bigger tires on it. And then said he knows people will. They built this truck cheap and charge more, so the shareholders are making money
“Overlanding” - the millennial word for “Car Camping”
Well I been looking at the new Tacoma but now I will look in to the Nissan Frontier 6 cylinder and the reviews are really good. Thanks for you excellent video. Hello from Vancouver Canada.
Hello Vancouver get ready to pay top dollar.
Funny that this showed up for me just as I finished watching TFLs interview with Sheldon Brown.
I’ve never heard of a money shift breaking a clutch and no damage anywhere else.
A very fair review of an unfortunate situation. I respect you for that and thanks for info.
I watched the whole video and one thing is clear, instead of derating the engine to help the manual survive, they should have uprated the clutch to handle more power. It used to be Toyota used superior materials and Japanese manufacturing dedication, but sadly this has gone the way of the rest of the industry. Cut it close and build it cheap. If you pass those savings onto the customers, maybe ok. Not when you price gouge and dealer fee it to death.
Absolutely! The drivetrain should be able to handle ANY situation for at least a tire size 2 sizes TALLER. Not just stock tires. The Tacoma cannot even handle light conditions with stock tires.
Hey guys the clutch failed due to over-revving. The tach might not be able to keep up with the instantaneous engine speed..Where was the rev-limiter?
@@alanmorrison3598 rev limiters will never stop an over-rev from a money shift. rev limiters are electronic cutoff, the mechanical connection between transmission and engine will force the motor past the rev limiter based on road speed and gear ratios. you have a point about the digital tach though. a digital gauge like that will always have some level of lag between actual rpm and displayed rpm
I bought a 24 Tundra, worst decision I’ve ever made!! They sold me a truck with a known engine problem and THEY’RE STILL SELLING THEM! I will never buy another Toyota for the rest of my life!!!
Please do an oil analysis and post the results. It's an open question if some '24s have the issue
Full transparency has left the chat.
5 months ago!!!!!!!!
Yeah, most of these YTs are nothing but paid shills at this point. It’s really sad they had to get the official version of events from Toyota before they announced it.
good. you can get the new engine installed at the same time.. perhaps get an extra one too...
I am skeptical on a 5th to 1st. Every manual I have driven binds up and wont allow a shift to first if the rpm is too high. Also, someone with decades of experience driving manual, knows 3rd from 1st.
The manual can’t handle the extra 8lbft of torque 😂 what a lame Taco, so glad I cancelled my TRD manual order after the TFL video. i remember my friends calling me crazy for buying a Bronco saying it was gonna be a lemon. Im at 70 000km of brutal driving, every weekend on the trails and 0 issues with my Badlands.
Early Broncos had a lot of issues. Good to hear that Ford has mostly sorted that out.
Right? An extra 8 lb is going to break the transmission? If the margin of error is that small, the transmission was not strong enough to begin with. What is this, the transmission from the GR86?
We got fords marketing team in here 😂
@drivewayhero what's wrong you butthurt a toyota product is a pos?
I don't believe that, your dad DID NOT shift into 1st gear.
Toyota is lying.
Rpm only went to 4500 in the video …
From the video, it doesn't look like Truck King Sr successfully engaged first gear. It makes sense that he could have damaged the syncros going from 5th to 1st, but how was the the clutch destroyed?
I'm a Toyota fan but their response is 100% bullshit
@@FerrisBuellerYT So your a fan of bullshit huh? Is that fun?
@@petebusch9069 My comment is that Toyota's response is bullshit.
I’m shocked. Toyotas new CEO can go kick rocks with toeless shoes.
Why blame the new guy.
He’s the one who’s got to rebuild this shitty new reputation.
@@paultruesdale7680 Because he’s literally the one who implemented it. The buck stops with him, he is the one whose needs to take all accountability. Extreme ownership if you will. Think it’s any coincidence that for generations the Toyota’s have built this reputation of reliability than the moment a Toyota isn’t CEO, that reputation goes downhill?
I’m not sure that the new CEO is responsible for trying to double the output of vehicles while ignoring the Toyota Production System. But if he is damn the management team.
I have been listening to them sell this TPS for the past twenty years like they invented mass production. Seems like even the mighty can make a muck of it.
I've got a newer Toyota manual transmission vehicle, and you don't just push it into 1st like it's an easy thing to do. A transmission will readily allow an easy shift from 5th to 3rd, but going from 5th to 1st, you'll encounter significant resistance feedback. So if he ignored that resistance and jammed it in anyway, that's one thing. If it clicked right into gear position, then it wasn't him, it was the vehicle that caused the failure.
Clutch start is the dumbest “feature” ever.
This is what I believe happened to you as it’s happened to me in other vehicle make:
I believe the reason why the clutch pedal is to the floor was because the shift fork bent. And slave cylinder over extended and remains in that position. The shift fork has a release bearing that contacts the pressure plate(PP) and the PP is the device that pushes back your clutch pedal. Since the fork is bent, the PP does return but can not push back and return the clutch pedal back up. The reason for the grind was because since the fork is bent, the pedal is to the floor, which means the slave cylinder is still fully extended and trying to transfer that energy to push the PP but was unsuccessful therefore synchros were grinding.
Did Toyota show you pictures of the fork? Even if driver shifted into 1st at that speed, which I know he didn’t, you wouldn’t have a pedal to the floor issue, you would have engine issues.
I can’t tell how fast you were going, but if under 50mph, you could have downshifted to 2nd gear safely.
I also believe the auto rev software is a bad design. A lot of 1st gears have a max rpm of approximately 38mph