When F1 Ran At Le Mans (And Was VERY Fast)
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
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Back in 2021 a Formula One car ran at Le Mans - with Fernando Alonso driving.
I wanted to know more, so I went to Alpine to speak with the project lead on this event.
And I wanted to know if Fernando Alonso was really pushing, how they adapted the car for such an unusually long and fast circuit, and what was the lap time-would it be quicker than LMP1s or Hypercars?
Well, that team shared the lap time data with me - and it’s fascinating.
Now, you might expect that this was just a demonstration run, one to please the 300,000 spectators at Le Mans.
But in fact, the team were very well prepared - they’d run many simulations and had engineered the car to be as fast as possible on this incredible circuit.
And Le Mans is no normal circuit - it’s almost eight and a half miles long. But, the biggest difference is just how many long straights it has.
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#F1 #LeMans #F1atLeMans - Авто та транспорт
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the watch is 3k i know is a sponsor but 99% of people can't afford it. I don't get it
They've destroyed Ayrton Senna's Lotus. To make watches. How can you be ok with this? It's disgusting.
I wonder how fast an Indycar would lap. They have a higher top speed than a F1 car.
@@SuikaIbukiyou don't have to
@@grizzlyhamstercan you elaborate? This type of comment is... puzzling
Imagine having an F1 endurance race at Le Mans
Wouldn't last 4 h
it would be very underwhelming
F1, F2, F3, and F4?
@@Beckett3743 F4 would lose.. By a mile so it wouldn't be proper and the standards of racing are different
@@thesteverussmaybe with a detuned engine
I read the thumbnail as "Fiat Le Mans". This is perfect.
Ha! Very good point - sorry for the clickbait 😂
@@Driver61 i was expecting some puntos but here we are
NOOOO, you have changed it. Thanks for the likes nonetheless 😅
@@Driver61tbf the alpine car aint that much faster than a fiat
I did it too
Next year they should let the Porsche 919 EVO do an unrestricted solo run around Le Mans like they did at the Nordschleife
Yes!
Absolutely
I'd love f1 endurance races because it'll force the designers to make f1 cars even more durable and reliable over a long period of time
The tickets wouldn't sell as well.
@@solarissv777 why?
That's basically just open wheel LMP1 with stricter regulation. 😂
@@chrismaina1830 Too expensive maybe idk, I don't get it. F1 is the most popular sport. I think it would sell.
Sounds pretty good but I think they would need more then 3 drivers that are capable of driving the F1 the F1 car is way more difficult and brute on you especially on corners so they'd also change of drivers more often too
how did Alonso's first few sector times compare to le mans until he hit traffic?
I wondered that
Because Fernando is faster than you
@@mram7571ALL THE TIME you have to leave it, the space
Le Mans despite being 13 kilometers long still only has 3 sectors. First goes up to Tetre Rouge, second is the entire Mulsanne straight, and third is from Mulsanne corner to the end. Alonso started his lap from the pits so the first sector isn't comparable. He encountered the traffic when entering the porche curves so about halfway down the 3rd sector. So he would have only gotten a single proper sector time for the lap, and that happens to be the Mulsanne straight. Realistically the only information you'll get from that is whether an F1 car is faster than a Le Mans Hypercar on a straight line.
That being said, if you go look at the video of Alonso doing the lap, he goes from Tetre rouge to Mulsanne corner in about 1 minute and 20 seconds. In Le Mans 2024 qualification and hyperpole the fastest sector 2 times appear to be around 1 minute 19 seconds and change. So in a straight line his lap time was pretty much exactly the same as a Le Mans Hypercar.
I was not expecting sub 3 minute time projection. That's insane. I'd love to see it a real lap unimpeded.
Yooo, happy Monday ya gearheads
To you too my friend!
Happy Canada to you as well
ICE head here
right back at ya too!
The fact that they wrote all of that complex simulation software which 'just' gives them a base setup is astounding
I think it's because it still is drastically not only cheaper, but also safer to do that. Those things cost money and F1 if anything is the greatest motorsport at development. Sims is one of the reasons why. Extensive research that goes into development of the car is something next level and, considering it is for ONE particular track, it's even more surprising.
if theres DRS available everywhere why not have a very big wing to go faster through corners but still be very fast on straights with DRS
Coz you want the front wing to be trimmed for low drag as well and a big rear wing would mess up the balance too much.
it would still mean more drag at the straights and with 92 % flat out would probably cost more time than what you d save in the corners.
Because a wing regardless of size, still creates drag. Having a large wing with DRS is going to be slower than a smaller wing with DRS. The straights on Le Mans are far more important than the 5 or so slow corners.
because DRS don't remove all the drag of the rear wing due to regulation, the opening is limited to 8 cm or 3.15 inches no more and if you want them to allow a larger opening then it's no longer a F1 car.
Even with drs, the wing produces drag, and a bigger wing would ruin the aero balance of the car.
TLDR: 0:20 They didn't get to complete a lap and the estimated timed lap is a sub 3 minutes, save yourself 12 minutes folks.
thank you
Should have read the coments first.
Thanks but no thanks. Many of us take a thorough interest in the full videos.
Instead of TLDR you should write ADHD.
(….hurry hurry please only read me the last page of the book..) 🤣
Dude... I thought I was losing my mind.
8:36 But Alonso was driving for McLaren in 2018, and Ocon for Racing Point. Hulkenberg and Sainz were the Renault drivers in 2018.
you can't run your current gen car for demonstration as per the rules because it would be considered as private testing. They usualy run a couple years older cars instead
@@Ked_gaming No I meant he was comparing the speeds of Alonso and Ocon, but they were not the ones driving the Renault car in 2018
@@asefjamilajwad ah yeah my bad
Strange. Puts so much time into the video, makes this silly mistake to mislead us all. Oh well.
He showed the speed of both Alpines at the 2021 Italian Grand Prix and he referred to Alpine as Renault.
If an Alpine/Renault can go sub 3 minutes at Le Mans
Imagine what the Mercedes W11 can do on it 💀
FWIW - LMP1 (1 min 45 sec) is 13 sec/lap slower than F1 car (1 min 32 sec) at COTA (3.4 mi/5.5 km). Indy car has lap time (1 min 46 sec). All are qualifying times.
and a 24 hour race at Le Mans including that F1 car would have them looking at GT car tail lights after 10 laps.
@@SpencerMusic880why would you say that?
Sub 3 minute laps would put them way ahead of even LMP1 cars in 10 laps. They would box and be out in front of them the whole race. Of course with the requisite amount of fuel needed to lap that long or longer.
Do you mean from a longevity standpoint they couldn’t last 10 laps or more? Just trying to understand your take. Not getting at you.
@@SpencerMusic880 But I think the idea of a F1 24 hr Le Mans race would be without anything else than F1, or maybe with just F1 and F2/Hypercar racers.
They need headlights and need to figure out fuel mileage
@@snakebitten6967 Well, that simulated sub 3 lap was a 'perfect computer lap' and not a driven lap so I'm more than a bit skeptical if that was a real world achievable time. Even if it were an actual possibility it would be more of a qualifying hot lap than a race lap. In Grand Prixes there's a 7-10 second difference between pole qualifying lap and the race's fastest lap. Fuel load, set up,... the difference between getting the fastest lap possible and the fastest consecutive 50 laps possible are very different, much less 24 hours of laps.
2018 cars were faster than 2023/24 cars. Some of that do doubt was on the corners but the fastest achieved speeds have also gone from around 130 mph to around the mid 120s. It would be interesting to see this with an Indycar which while much slower in the corners and acceleration/deceleration do have around 10-15 mph faster top speed with an oval set up.
Cool video, but fyi "terminal velocity" is not a synonym of "top speed" (of a car, a runner, etc).
"Terminal velocity" is a term specific to Fluid Dynamics, referring to the highest speed an object will achieve when FALLING (ie unassisted by a source of propulsion) through a fluid/gaseous medium, usually referring to air (ie, a sky diver's highest speed, or anything else falling through the air), limited by the air's inability to get out of the way any faster. A car pushing itself through the air can be limited by either engine power (pushing the air out of the way), or gear ratio, or running out of room on a straightaway. "Top speed" covers those conditions.
A car can also be limited by its terminal velocity at some point but I don't know if any car has achieved that.
@@102ndsmirnov7 i think mythbusters dropped a car from a big height before
This was the comment I was looking for. The "terminal velocity" remark - while I get what he means in the video - took me out of it. Clumsy misstep from someone who is usually quite scientific in his videos I thought.
Thanks. That term sounded strange to me but didn't know exact reason.
Very cool stuff. Thanks for making videos like this.
Lap record was 3:17 by Conway, during the actual race, I'm assuming? Because I know Kobayashi did 3:14 during qualifying in 2017 or 2016, I don't remember.
You are correct! And the time was 3:14.791 during qualifying in 2017 and it was set by Kamui Kobayashi not Mike Conway.
Lap records are always Race Laps.
Qualifying laps don’t count as official lap records.
@lordomacron3719 Yeah but it just feels weird taking that number for comparison when the f1 predicted lap time is for a perfect qualifying lap.
Love your videos, always interesting, thanks.
Thx for this absolutely interesting video.
I rarely ever watch adds during vids but here, I have to say that I did, as a token of appreciation.
Keep it up sir (and team) 👍
Love it when concepts like this are explored
Remember when Porche tested their setup with absolutely no limits for shits and giggles? Man I wish F1 teams did more of this with their older setups. Sadly, FIA regulates F1 heavily so as to not have private testing (which is not accessible for all teams due to monetary limitations) for current gen cars (or next for that matter)...
8:37 The highlighted drivers were not driving the Renaults. The Renaults were driven by Hülkenberg and Sainz back in 2018.
He simply referred to the Alpines in the 2021 Italian Grand Prix as Renault. Since the video essentially talks about the Renault R.S.18 F1 car from 2018.
@@ananastudio He didn't, Sirotkin is in there, Ericsson, Vandoorne, Hartley as well. That's not 2021's Italian GP
11:24 The fastest lap in the current layout was set by Kobayashi Kamui in 2017 with 3:14.791
love this new style of editing
thanks for fixing the sound, much better than before.
8:46 Bump drafting in a formula car?? Now I want to see that!
Then I remember that modern F1 cars would disintegrate at merely touching another car.
Just to note, when the engineers talking about low sensitvity at around 4:00, I think he might be talking about sensitivty analysis rather than the handling sensitivity. Meaning in their simulations if there are two different set up optinons that give similar lap times they'll let the drives try both set ups to see which they prefer.
The way the team saved a LOT of trial and error costs with computer runing multiple laps with current f1 car stats on the circuit to find the perfect "macro" and then get the driver to mimic as close as possible to the machine precision without the need to drive the actual car its soo clever. Thats a perfect representation of how can technology is helping us solving "real life puzzles" faster and more efficiently!
You didn’t mention Alonso’s actual lap time????
Because he didn't get to complete a push lap. The time wouldn't have had any meaning.
@@galihad1980Sector times would be good benchmark on how close he is to their simulations tho
@@galihad1980 well crap! click bait
@@GunnyArtG thats what i thought
I would love to see what would happen with an open wheeler endurance race series
liked the video just because of "ive spent lemans weekend with ferrari" news always happy to see my man being part of something amazing
You didn't mention Gerard Welter who used to turn up in Formula 3000 cars with Group C bodywork. He managed more than one lap (sometimes) and set the record down the straight (405, some say 407 kmh).
At 4:09, I think what Dominic means by a lack of sensitivity is that changing that part of the setup has a relatively small effect on simulated performance, small enough that the driver can choose what they prefer, not the meaning subsequently described in the video
I greatly enjoyed this video, as I have in the past been curious about what time an F1 car would do at Le Mans. I’m also wondering what lap time they would be able to at the Nordschleife.
we really need that big no rules time attack meeting of different sorts of motorsport. f1 vs hyper cars, maybe some old lmp1 at an iconic track and then just go for it
F1 should race at LeMans for a special double points race. Like indy car has indy 500, if F1 has LeMans on the race calender and it's an opportunity for constructors and drivers championship to gain double points with the same pointing system
Imagine how fast they would be until the first fuel stop... then get lapped by LMGTE cars.
@@SpencerMusic880 By the time they need to stop for refuelling, the F1 cars would be laps ahead. They'd have the time to grab a coffee.
The Circuit de la Sarthe is not up to F1 standards with its FIA Grade 2. Also I think F1 should leave this circuit to prototypes and GT cars and come up with its own Jewel in the Crown event instead of stealing it from another series.
@@SpencerMusic880 LMGTE is a discontinued set of regulations that last raced at the 2023 8 Hours of Bahrain
@@ananastudio Yeah, you get the idea. Monaco doesn't count. We need an endurance special stage for teams to have the opportunity to score double points. I know there are lots of things such as the right track, cars would have to be specialized for that specific event, they'll need to work out a driver swap system, and imprpve the longevity and reliability of the engine...basicallybhave a special engine just for that 1 race. OH, AND MAYBE F1 CARS WILL HAVE HEADLIGHTS AND BRAKE LIGHTS FOR ONCE 😂😂
it would never manage sub 3 minutes due to the size of the battery. It's rediculous to assume max power the whole lap - the clipping would be massive, even if they drained the battery completely!
Not sure why they didn't include this in their laptime estimate - probably because it would sound slow...
great time to upload this
LMP1 and Hypercar are veru limited by the rulles, could be way faster! Would be amazing a new Group C car!!
Imagine Ferrari making a 499P Evo (not the Modificata, that is too softened up for amateurs) like the 919 Evo and going around beating the 919 Evo records where it can!
Damn that would spark some Porsche revenge :)
@barath4545 well, that would be one hell of a challenge: 919 Evo is based on an LMP1, a way more complex and faster car overall... even a "standard" 919 would probably be considerably faster than a 499p Modificata so yeah, not a realistic thing at all imo lol
It would be pretty interesting to have simulation data with perfect conditions on the lmp car aswell. So you can get a proper comparison
Sick lap times...
A full video of this on the car camera please
Thanks for posting. Too bad they could wait for the other demonstration cars to be further along or go before them. I suppose windows of opportunity were a factor. 🏎
So how to read that data?
How's the lap time it was?
The only problem with this is that if you modify the GP car to go fast you should allow and unrestricted LM car to also set a time as you are not comparing apples with apples. It would be interesting to see the comparison between a GP car set up for say Monza against a LM car set up for Le Mans. If the GP car need to slow down sooner due to brakes etc. so be it and we would see a fair comparison for the two disciplines.
Brilliant video! Love your passion Scott.
not sure how good it would be, but id love to see at least one race there with modern f1 cars.
Nice video!
I believe that the record for the current layout of the track is set by Toyota Gazoo Racing / Kamui Kobayashi 3:14.791 (2017).
This was a very cool video 😊
And I loved the NASCAR at le man's, but I'd love to see how the Australian super cars would fair also there Vs the NASCAR and the GTs.
I think international stock car races could be a really cool idea. NASCAR vs V8 Supercars sounds like a fun time.
You can see when he caught traffic, so you could extrapolate the difference in sector times before that.
8:38 slight mistake there, the drivers for the Renault team in 2018 would be Hulkenberg and Sainz. Neither Ocon nor Alonso was driving for Renault in that year.
2:45 I've sat in this room. 😎
Do I have the pic's og sim?
Would u mind sharing them I'm use curious
BAR Honda F1 got rid of the rear wing and replaced it with a rear fin when they went for 400kmh at Salt Lake.
I used to play rfactor a lot, trying f1 cars at the different tracks. And Circuit de la Sarthe was one of the favorites. Surprisingly the lap time was around 2:57.000 - 2:59.000 :)
I guess rfactor is a nice simulator game in the end :)
man.... and there I was waiting for Dominic to stop and say: "Are they subtitles?? What do I need subtitles for?" 🤣🤣🤣
it would be a blast if the day before the le mans 24 there will be an event where every series/types of cars would be given a chance to compete for quickest lap. good entertainment that.
There is this thing called ‘metric system’, might want to check it out.
Thanks Merca dez! Thanks!
I found the perfect track for Williams!!!
thanks for the hindi translation, was helpful .... dhanyawad
Would love the French GP at Le Mans the place would be sold out imagine the weekend figures for the crowd plus have a sprint weekend so your guaranteed cars on track
That merc tried to leave orbit omg.
ooo, it sounds like they were doing monte carlo (lol) simulations. I wonder how many sims they ran.
I hope you are making a video about the Verstappen / Norris incidents during the last GP
Hi mate! What about that project you were developing, about running a race car upside down inside that custom-made tunnel? Just asking for pure information, since no further info has been given: it was something amazing and I guess everyone would be super excited for it to actually go on!
Let us know, all the best!
the limiting factor would be the gearbox here right? if they could make a 1 off gearbox for higher topspeeds how much faster would they go?
I wish we could have an F1 race at Le Mans.
Now i gotta see if i can match that in gt7. Sub 3 minute lap!
The BIG question is how long would a F1 car last at that 3 min pace before a critical failure?
2 hours like a F1 race?
4 hours if you tone it down to race safely
24 hours seems an eternity.
Makes us respect both categories.
Usain Bolt would never beat Kipchoge in a marathon.
No one was able to beat Bolt on a 100m dash
Brakes would let go ~2 hours in. They're too fragile for anything longer than grand prix distance.
That's 40 laps at 20s faster lap time.. how quickly could they swap out some brakes? Or design a brake system that could be swapped out fast.. Interesting thought experiment.
40 laps? You realize that a lap at Sarthe is nearly twice as long as Spa right? They'd be doing 23 maybe 24 per fuel stint if they're doing fuel saving. All of that is also ignoring tire life.
@@caillanan Yeah. So lets call it 39 laps then and allow 3 minutes for a couple of fuel stops and a tyre change. :) How long does a pit stop add to a lap? (Genuine question?) Not here to argue, as I know stuff all about any of this. Just suggesting I am sure there are solutions to the problems..
Not really. You'd just end up with an open wheel LMP1 that requires an engine swap midway after all the fixes you'd need. I'd probably just rather run an LMP1 since you'd be losing so much time in the pits.
Wait an Alpine lead lasting longer than a year😮 That's got to be a new record
Bring back the twin brake pedal in some form
In the tumbnail it looks like it says "Fait Le Man" 😅
You could make a video about the quickest F1 car overall
Simulations fascinate me and I'm curious how they're executed and I'm trying to start doing simple ones. If anyone in the chat know how, please respond
Do they have times for the sectors before catching the field? If yes, how do they compare?
would be a sick G56 entry.
Testing out that Mechachrome engine for the Hypercar, which bombed itself on both cars this year lol
LMP1 vs hypercar vs f1 vs nascar would be funny to see
I feel like this video baited me into watching.
Nigel must be so proud.
Didn't Lotus take off the rear wing of Jochen Rindt's car at Monza on that tragic weekend in 1970?
What about partial sector times ? That would have been a good indication !! For sure Alpine has those. Come on man ! Release that...please
They should do a race there called the 2.4 Hours at Le Mans honestly
18:24 You highlighted Ocon and Alonso's top speed at Monza from 2018 which is Force India and McLaren respectively 😂 "And the reason why they're so different" is not just because of DRS and slipstream, it's also because they're in completely different cars with different engines.
I'd be more interested in seeing the laptimes of a V10 than modern cars. The V10 has lower drag and won't clip on the straights.
Apart from the endurance capabilities of an F1 car... they LMDH cars have less power, so there is a clear advantage. I would like to see the 919 vs F1 cars lap time in an endurance setting. It's a closer comparison.
Lucky Boy indeed!🎉
Weird they didn't think about changing the final gear ratio...
If Alpine believed they could go sub three minutes I wonder what a real F1 team could do.
One thing I have learned from this. The engineers have taken all the fun out of racing.
To make the Renault F1 car quick was going to be a real challenge 🤣
Loved the old Lemans straight. Ford GT and Ferraris going flat out.
That's a long embargo for this story Nigel.
what was his lap time until he had to slow down? how much faster was he?
Sack off the Sprint races weekends, let’s just have an endurance race 😂
"So I went to Alpine to speak to the project lead"
10 seconds to Ocon.
I read the thumbnail as ‘Fiat at LeMans’ and I clicked because of it lol
Yeah, imagine F1 at Le Mans...
Lap 1: Bono my tyres are gone!!!
What would a modern F1 car be like on the Ring?
Put Max and last years Redbull and he’d crush it. Don’t forget you are talking about a mid to low F1 team in Alpine.
I mean the whole grid, front to back, is only separated by like one second. So realistically the difference outside of in an f1 context is basically non existent.
Never been this early before