400 AMP residential ELECTRIC SERVICE using TWO parallel 200 AMP service ENTRANCES (076)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- We install our 320 amp (400 amp) meter base and run our two parallel 200 amp service entrances into our barn. One goes to the barn load center; the other goes to a service disconnect for our house.
Recording date: 22 July 2021
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CODE : We're in Michigan using state-amended 2017 NEC, although in most situations we're following 2020 NEC.
EQUIPMENT: Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD meter base (U5786-X-2/K2-BL), Square D QO 1-phase, 42-spaces, 200A load center (QO142M200PCVP), Square D QOM2 100-225A 2-pole breaker enclosure (QOM22225NS) with Square D 200A breaker.
WIRE: 2/0 stranded copper from meter base to disconnects. This is sized per Michigan-amended 2017 NEC for dwellings. A non-dwelling would use 3/0 stranded copper. 1/0 stranded copper GEC with #4 solid copper spliced to each disconnect.
GROUND CHANGES: We changed our GEC to make it "continuous" to both disconnects. We kept the two grounding conductors (5/8" x 8' copper rods) with 1/0 stranded copper GEC running continuously to the main load center enclosure. In that enclosure, we spliced the GEC using *two* irreversible Burndy C-Taps (YGHC26C2) with #4 solid copper. We terminated the #4 solid copper GEC runs at the second neutral lug in each disconnect. Both disconnects remain bonded.
FUTURE UPDATES: We'll be generating and selling solar power back to our utility. We'll install a second meter base and a third disconnect, both outside. We'll need to splice the GEC with a third C-Tap. Our solar installation will be future video.
Thank you, everyone, for your helpful comments, guidance, and support.
Thanks for your reply! I will run your details by my electrician who wants me to source everything and then he will help me hook it up. It seems that every time I think that I have it figured out I learn that the lead time is 12-22 weeks or more, frustrating...
I'm an electrician, and generally, I don't like to see people do their own services, but your beautiful Ridgeback softened me up ;) . There's a lot to understand and do, and most people aren't willing to educate themselves to do it in a workmanlike manner (as defined in the NEC), safely and to code. It's kind of like trying to do your own dental work - mistakes can be painful and expensive to repair... You obviously have spent a lot of time doing your homework though, so kudos to you. There are a few things that might get dinged by a careful inspector that you could avoid if you could consult with a local electrician for a small fee (you might find one willing to do that). The reason I recommend a local electrician is because much of what you install for a service is NOT governed by the NEC, but by the local utility's requirements (ex. whether to run a ground wire to the meter socket). One thing that is a definite risk is that you cut the ground conductor at the barn panel. I'm guessing it's a UFER (going to the rebar in the slab) and not to a rod somewhere. It needs to go unbroken through the load center to the main disconnect for the house. To accomplish that, they make pass-through lugs that allow you to connect to the ground wire without breaking it. Another option would be crimping a lead off the ground and landing it in the bus of the load center. Your inspector may require you to redo that. If so, hire an electrician with a crimping tool to do it unless you can rent the crimp tool and do it yourself (the cheapest 6 ton hand crimper is going to cost hundreds of dollars, so it's not something you want to buy for just one thing). I don't see whether there's any metallic water system in the building but that would require bonding to as well, and the details of how that get's done depend on whether it's fed from a public water system or an on-site well. The inspector may also have an issue with the inside LB being inside the wall. That will depend on whether the wall is getting drywalled or left open.
One design note: By planning the layout a little differently, you could have piped directly from the back of the meter socket into the load center and disconnect without using exposed conduit and LBs. Again, this is the kind of thing that spending some money to consult with an electrician might have made clear before pipe went up on the wall (and siding now has to be installed around). The consult would also help a lot when you go to run feeders to the house and do the grounding at that end. It's not clear how you're going to route that feeder in the video, and if that wall is getting covered, you definitely want to put infrastructure in place ahead of time. Good luck with the rest of the project and pat your Ridgeback's belly for me! :)
Good points. I agree about running the conduit different. That horizontal run outside is ugly and will make siding around it a challenge.
Hello. Apologies for my very delayed response. Your comment and guidance is amazing. Our ridgeback is quite a softie, and he really appreciated the belly rub.
Your comment sent me back to the code, and I've learned a lot more about my options for the grounding electrode conductor. I've been kicking myself because that GEC was long enough to connect continuously to both service disconnects, passing through a lug in the first enclosure. But then I cut the GEC... I'm not sure why I did it... but I did it. Adding a irreversible splice/tap/weld with or without a grounding bus would certainly work, but gawd those options are all so expensive.
I've also considered driving new grounding electrodes and running a new continuous GEC to each of the service disconnects. I considering looping this new GEC through the rod lugs on each electrode and then bringing both ends of the GEC through the wall, terminating each end in a different service disconnect. It seems like that's a way to make it continuous without welding or crimping.
Just in case I'm making a mountain out of molehill, I sent some photos and questions to our oh-so grumpy inspector. Hopefully he'll reply. Here's a few answers to your many thoughtful questions:
1) We don't have underground metallic water pipe... just PE pipe. So that simplifies things.
2) Our utility instructs us to run the GEC to our service disconnects. It would certainly be easier if we could just run it to the meter enclosure.
3) I didn't punch through the back of the meter enclosure because our utility labels exactly which knock-outs it wants us to use. In our case, that was the two on the bottom right corner. That said, it wouldn't have hurt for me to ask whetther I could run out of the back. It certainly would've looked nicer... plus made siding easier.
4) We'll ensure that our LBs remain accessible after drywall. We set the covers 1/2" off the framing, so we should be good there.
We took a few months break to do plumbing and mechanical, and we're finally getting back to electrical. tt's amazing how much there is to learn; I'm learning new things every day. Electrical is fun... definitely the most complex and rule-heavy of the trades. And it should be, considering the risks.
Yesterday I learned two new things: We need a receptacle within 2' of the end of our kitchen peninsula and our outdoor heat pump needs GFCI (at least with 2020 NEC). Who knew. :)
Thank you again for your comment and guidance. And, again, I'm sorry for not responding earlier.
FYI. Our inspector suggests pounding new rods and running new GEC, connecting the continuous GEC directly to the neutral lug/bus. We’ll downsize the wires to #2 since each disconnect will receive its own wire. That’s still oversized for our service entrances, but that’s fine with me. It’ll be one set of rods with a continuous #2 looped back on itself so that each end terminates at a service disconnect.
Not too bad for a redo. Just a bummer to have to drill another hole in the wall.
Sadly, many tradespeople, who also consider themselves to be professionals, are sorely lacking in their “workmanlike manner”. This is why I have taught myself all the trades, including electric. There are practically infinite resources available at one’s fingertips now. I not only get the pride and money-savings from doing a job myself, but also the ability to go beyond what is many times a ‘good enough’ job by the ‘professionals’.
Well for a homeowner that is a nice looking installation. Just a couple thoughts, since you payed for an electrical permit you're entitled to a consultation with your inspector (you can ask the inspector prior to install to save heartache). With that said, see the two lugs above your neutral conductors. Those are for bonding the meter enclosure, I would suggest running a # 6 copper from your two ground rods (6' apart) then to one of the smaller lugs. Then I would install a #6 from those lugs to each panel can ground bar(add a third lug). 250.66 A (ground rods only require a # 6 AWG). Oh and on your feeder conduit coming in from the utility (if you install it) add an expansion coupling between where it comes out of the ground and the meter enclosure ( will prevent the conduit from possibly pulling apart and breaking due to freeze/thaw conditions).
Thanks for your amazing guidance. We had never heard of using an expansion fitting to prevent conduit damage from the freeze/thaw cycle. We will definitely go that route.
Our utility requests that we do not ground the meter base. Not sure why they go that route. But maybe our inspector can explain why. He hasn’t been very helpful. We emailed him with some straightforward questions, and he never replied. When he was here inspecting our temp power, he wouldn’t answer any of our questions. That’s why we call him “grumpy”. He just grumbles. Maybe he’ll be more helpful when he does our rough-in inspection.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 sounds about right. Those are the requirements for being an inspector. 😄
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 because they forget they work really for the taxpayer and not the insurance companies
Using the heat gun to make a slight bend in the pvc blew my mind, like wow that is amazing. great install!
It was my first time doing it, and I too was surprised at how well it worked. Since then I tried it with 2” conduit. It still worked, but the pipe wanted to collapse when bent. Also took a loooong time to heat up. I’ll probably stick to using this trick with 3/4” or smaller.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 That is true, also with a thicker sketch like 40 general for electric, it can take a looong time.
That’s how you bend PVC is with a heat gun or a hotbox. You can cold bend PVC with a spring bender
Very nice job, looks good, I’m sure the inspector will have no problem with it.
Thank you. We’re pleased too. Still, we’ve got lots more electrical work to do before we bring in our inspector.
Very nicely done work despite miscalculations, looks great and professional
Thank you! Doing stuff for the first time always seems to result in some degree of miscalculation. Such as our learning process. :)
awsome vid. this is exactly something i was looking at how to do.
Great work you did your duty very well
Thank you.
Looks nice. Good job.
Thanks. Hopefullyt our inspector will agree. :)
Very nice installation! :)
Thanks!
Nice work thanks ❤
The voltage is water pressure, the current is flow rate, it's all about installing valves to keep your pipes from bursting.
Great job on the video
Thank you!
The cutoff panel for your futur house is ambecious but if your home is too far, you will need to bring neutral conductor between them. Do it add more cost then recall the electrical company?
My opinion, you did a very professional install. Right or wrong, you have a reason why you did what you did. BTW, I designed electrical systems for 35 years for electrical contractors.
You can settle the other comments about you should have used 3/0 copper not 2/0. If you have inspections, I’m assuming you have a permit. If the permit is for a dwelling unit, (as I suspect it is) you have correctly sized the conductors per NEC.
Please consider installing two ground rods, not just one. You are supposed to test for 25 ohms resistance. If higher, then install a second one. Just install the second one, no test needed. Also, you are to connect to all available electrodes. Like if you have metal pipe in the ground for water and a few others listed in NEC 250.
In reference to another comment, do your electrical calculations and have them ready when you do get an inspection. You may be asked to produce it.
Respectfully, Kevin
Thank you for your considerate comment. Yes, we have a dwelling permit for this structure. Thus the 2/0 sizing vs 3/0. And we did install two ground rods, 10’ apart, connected with a continuous 1/0 conductor. Our inspector says this area’s soil requires two rods in almost every circumstance. So we just went ahead with two.
We’re learning. And we still have a lot to learn. But we’re passionate about doing it ourselves and doing it right. That involves taking good advice from folks like yourself. Much appreciated.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 Another of your comments was about the future house. You will need L1,L2, N, and ground. It is a feeder, not a service entrance. Under 2017 NEC, you will need to ground again at the house, but separated in the panel. Grounding electrodes connected to electrical systems are for lightning protection, nothing else. The equipment grounds are a low resistance pathway to the incoming service neutral and out to the utility transformer and back to the service equipment to cause the breaker to trip or fuse blow. I thought you might need this info. It really helps in understanding Article 250. Have a wonderful day! Respectfully, Kevin
I thought I’d need to run the ground with the two hots and neutral to the house. But I hadn’t looked into whether the house needed it’s own ground and how to connect (or if to connect) the two grounds. It’s still foggy in my head. Thankfully we’re slow builders, and we’ll have lots of time before we get to that stage in the house. :). Again, I really appreciate your candor and thoughtful replies.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 Discuss my comment with your inspector to verify I’m correct. You will do fine!
What’s the square footage of the home this is going to be powering?
Great educational video, I learned the 400 amp to make parallel way. I am curious if there is any special purpose to make the service disconnect for your house? Because you have barn load center (like a regular 200 amps panel), it could disconnect if needed. You might simply install a load center for house? Thank you!
Its very easy for some one who does this every day
ONLY 200 subs! :( Well one more and great video!
Heh. Yah. The UA-cam algorithm doesn’t seem to like us. ;) But comments like yours help, I’m sure. Thanks for your kind words.
Around here upgrading from 100A to 200A service costs between $8000-$13,000 so I can't imagine what 400A service costs.
He is a grumpy because he has been shocked very well before 😅
Did you pass your electrical inspection?
Did you pass your inspection with the first means of disconnect being located inside the house? It should have been outside.
Yea, we passed. We have two service disconnects inside (I believe you’re allowed up to 5). Why do you feel they should’ve been outside? I’ve not seen that (in my very limited experience)?
We also have a disconnect outside for solar, where we sell back to the utility. It needs to be outside so the utility can isolate our solar for lineman safety.
Wet walls for plumbing and false walls for electrical keep your structure wall intact and give you room for your piping to fit properly.
For sure. I wish we’d have known that at the start. But we learned our lesson pretty quickly. We have false walls throughout our utility room now.
When you notch with a sawzall, flip the blade 180 degrees. You will have a flatter angle to get in more square..
pretty cool video.. just wondering where the video of you pulling the wire through the conduit and LB's is
Heh. I didn’t include that. It involved swearing and vulgarity. :). We finally got our power installed today. Yes, one year later. Inspection and installation went without a hitch (based on the changes I made to the GEC in my pinned comment). No flags at inspection; no concerns with power installation.
Great install. I’m an attempting to put one in myself. What is the model of your Meter base? I’m looking for one with duel lug but can’t find one!
Our meter base is a Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD, part number U5786-X-2/K2-BL. Our utility provided it. Not sure if it's available commercially.
remember from the disconnect to the house you need to run 4 wire. 2 h, 1 n, and 1 g. the conduit will need to be 2.5 in. be best to do 3 in.
Thanks. Yes, ground wire will have to travel the distance. :)
I'm trying to do the same thing in my house project. I haven't had a lot of luck finding a similar dual lug meter base. Do you have a model number or can you share where you purchased the meter base box?
Ours was provided by our utility. I don’t have the specific model, but it’s a Milbank 400A (320A continuous) base. Big and heavy.
Nice job on the electric, I have a question. What brand is the meter base you installed and did you buy it or did the power company give it to you?
It’s provided by our utility. I’ll look up for the model and let you know shortly.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 can you provide the model for me as well i need this exact setup . Thank you. Good video by the way
You can find them online first and than call utility to see if they will provide the meter entrance or allow the one you want /found
Dominion Power provided mine then for me to find out it was in priceless because no one can get one anywhere locally or extended mileage. I brought it in the house awaiting a good day to work. I did the same a 400amp meter with 2 200 amp disconnects then one to the HVAC systems and the other to the in house 200 panel. I am having difficulty with the grounding and common wires other than pulling that notorious little green screw in my 1910 not yet updated house.
I'm not an electrician but I am in the middle of a very similar project. I'm having trouble sourcing equipment from Milbank and others. Would you mind sending me the model numbers of the meter socket panel as well as the two 200 amp disconnect box that you used? I too thought the video was great and that it turned out looking great!
Thanks. Meter base is Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD, part number U5786-X-2/K2-BL. Our utility provided it. You can find PNs for the disconnects somewhere in the comments. :) I don't remember the numbers off-hand.
You have tapped and liquid flashed sheeting and spray foam on interior. That's your vapor layor. Putting plastic inside of that is just going to trap moisture in your fiber bats, which might cause mold. I wouldn't put plastic if you have zip and spray foam.
We mostly agree. The ZIP and foam creates an air and vapor barrier on the exterior, but we don’t have enough foam to prevent condensation on the surface of the foam during the coldest weather. So we need an air barrier and vapor retarder on the inside.
But, you’re right, plastic is bad. It’s too vapor tight. And should water get in that wall, it won’t be able to dry. Mold is certain. For that reason, we’ll be installing a smart vapor retarder on the interior throughout the whole barn. But we didn’t have it in-hand when we installed the boxes. So we used plastic. We’ll slice up the plastic and install the smart retarder layer.
Thanks for the great point. I actually recorded an explanation of this, but I cut it from the video because it seemed a bit off topic. Probably should’ve included it. Thanks again!
So this lady was doing her own electrical 🤯🤯🤯🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ wow
:)
I'm sure your inspector probably told you the only reason that "outside shielding" is there is to make the conductors easier to pull through conduit. It doesn't protect the conductor in any way so its totally fine if you tear it up.
Thanks for the info. We wouldn’t have assumed that it was a “sacrificial” layer. But that makes a lot of sense.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 Not really a sacrificial layer. It is a component of the insulation that allows it to be rated for temperatures, moisture, chemicals, etc. Normally found on THHN, THWN, THHN2, etc.
A big part of the confusion regarding ground wires is their strange terminology. For example a grounded conductor is not the same as a grounding conductor (!). The first is the white neutral (sometimes called the identified conductor), the second is the actual ground. I think that confusing terminology should be abandoned! The key point is to bond the white neutral to ground at only one place in a service, which made me scratch my head when you described doing it in two different boxes. I guess you had to do that because you have two completely separate services. The trend has been to send a white neutral wire to outbuildings fed by one service, which takes away need to bond neutral to ground in separate buildings.
I wonder, once we subfeed to our house, whether we’ll need to bond there. I assume not since it’s already bonded at the breaker enclosure in the barn. The house will probably fall along the lines of the outbuilding you describe.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 You do not want to bond anything beyond the service, like sub panels, etc. This will cause current to flow on the ground wire that is going from main panel to sub panel. You need to remove the bonding jumper or screw inside the subpanel(s).
I am doing the same thing at my property that you are doing. I am having a heck of a time finding the right meter box and separate service disconnects to accomplish this. Can you please provide me the make and model number of each of your units there?
All our model info is in the pinned comment. If you’re looking for something that’s not there, let me know!
Hi, what is the make and model of your meter panel? Thanks!
Thanks for your question. We used the Square D QO 200 42-space panel with Quik-Grip, Model # QO142M200PCVP. It comes with a handful of breakers and a flush-mount cover. . Our breaker enclosure is also Square D.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 What was the model or part number for the Milbank meter box?
@@jmfstl11 Our meter base is a Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD, part number U5786-X-2/K2-BL. Our utility provided it. Not sure if it's available commercially. Sorry for my delay in getting you this info.
First time seeing your channel and panel looked like a good install,now my real concern is why aren't you wearing some impact rated safety glasses? Never thought about them myself till the night I went to hit a headlight on(it worked at one time,and just aged myself,58 & 1/2)and didn't see it broken but a piece of glass flew into my left eye which I got out from garden hose flush,never closed my eye but just that put a cut into it on the iris.
Yikes. That sounds terrible. Glad it turned out okay. Not wearing safety glasses is an issue; you’re totally right. We’ve been very lucky though clearing land and building our barn. Amazing really, that we’ve not hurt ourselves. But we shouldn’t test our luck. Thanks for the reminder.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 you are very welcome,the optometrist can still see the indentation cut and it was some 25 or more years ago,plus the hearing protection with power tools,who would've thought about that,just real quick cut with the grinder,or it's only minor cuts of a 2"×4",it added up, Oops.
question - when the power company pulled the main line to the meter - did they pull in a single 400A service line or 2 200A service lines?
Single line to meter base. Then split at the base to my service disconnects.
Hi waht zise wire did you use for feeding the panel from the miter?
We used 2/0 copper based on 2017 NEC for 200A service entrances for dwellings. Your mileage may vary.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 great, thanks for the tip!
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 what software program dud you use fir the electrical layout?
SketchUp. The free online version.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 thank you
Roughly how much was all the material cost and how long did it take to upgrade? Looking to upgrade and heard the 400 amp panels are very expensive
Probably $600 for the boxes and wire. Copper is really expensive right now.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 I got quotes between $12k-$14k for upgrading 200 amp panel to 400 amp panel with a combo meter box with a 200 amp disconnect running 60’ to my sub panel. Seems a bit expensive but then again I am in California 😬.
When I priced it, the 400A panels were thousands of dollars. They all seem to be commercial panes. That’s why we went with parallel 200A panels.
Hope you did a load calculation.
Hello out of curiosity, what wire did you run from the transformer to your milbank? Regards
Our utility ran that chunk, so unfortunately I don’t know the specifics. They sized it for 400A service plus 100A back from solar.
Thank you, my utility company wanted to choose the cable then they did not like my choice, so I am using 3c 500 mcm AL with pin reducers, thanks for the response.
I just cringed watching you cut out those bookshelf girts. But glad to see you back up and try again
Yeah. I cringe too. Heh. Pretty terrible. But we fixed it. I think it’s helpful to show mistakes. We make a lot of them.
Why do you need so much power? Running a kiln?
We likely don’t. We will use more than typical though. For example, we don’t intend to use propane or natural gas, so all of our appliances will be electric. In our workshop, we’ll have a lot of hungry equipment. And in our house, we’ll have a small attached greenhouse. Still, our estimates have us well below 320A continuous. Regardless, we’d rather have it oversized.
Tone the music down dude!!!
We're doing the same exact setup. Do you have an update on this after inspection? Also, will you share the link to where you bought your panels? Thank you!
We bought our load center from Menard's, but I imagine you can find it at any big box. The breaker enclosure we bought from a local electric supply store since it's not a typical big box item. They didn't have it on-hand, and it took them a few days to get it in.
We actually haven't had our inspection yet. We switched to doing plumbing and mechanical so that we could get the camper in the barn through winter with a functioning toilet and septic system. We're finally back to doing electrical, and I imagine we'll get inspected within a month or two.
Are you building new or remodeling?
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 building new. Shop & house...shop in already because it was a faster construction process. House pad in the process...your electrical configuration iseggsactly what we're going to do. I'll update when we get our inspection to reciprocate the sharing.
Cool. We chatted with our inspector today, and he wants us to redo the ground. Bring continuous wires in from the rods into the disconnects. And connect the grounds directly to the neutral buses. Technically it’ll be one wire (looped onto itself at the ground rod) with each end terminating in a different disconnect’s neutral bus (big lug next to the neutral lug). Hope that makes sense.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 Thanks for the update! Ours is scheduled for inspection next Friday. Will let you know.
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 PASSED with flying colors!
Did you pass your inspection?
We haven’t had it yet. We’re waiting to finish some more electrical work, and then we’ll get it all inspected at once. I assume we’ll pass, but we won’t know for sure for a couple months.
Can you share the model number for milbank main meter 320amp or 400amp.
Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD meter base (U5786-X-2/K2-BL). Sorry for my slow response.
I would have done a surface mount. I don't see why it would have been 'a lot' of extra work. I've never seen an install like that where they just hack the cross members...
2/0 is pronounced 2 aught. Nice job.
Thanks for both your comments. I appreciate the guidance.
LIke many other comments also very interested to know if you have a model number on the Millbank 400amp meter base. I would love to check my utility company's long list of approved bases to see if that one is on it.
Our meter base is a Milbank 320A 4T RL SWY STUD HD, part number U5786-X-2/K2-BL. Our utility provided it. Not sure if it's available commercially. Sorry for my delay in getting you this info.
Next time try to make the music quieter please otherwise great video thankyou
Noted!
That outer film is just an oil resistant film and isn't the there to insulate so it isn't a big deal if it gets scuffed up a bit.
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated
thanks! I fI were you I will drill holes on meter socket box and let wires go in. First time to see horizontal stubs - you would change all to vertical - not sure the top lumber size.
All meter socket mfg are stupid and over prised, and poor USA cannot make them!
Thank you so much but the music is too loud
Pretty sure you need wire size for 400 amp from pole to meter
Hiya. Are you suggesting that we need to provide the wire from transformer to meter base? If so, thankfully that's not necessary with our utility. I'm sure they all vary, but ours provides the wire for that run.
Of course you have to be a licenced journeyman ,licenced contractor
should have just mounted 3/4 plywood to that wall and mounted all equipment to that. thats normally how its done.
That would've been easier. I had it in my mind to fully finish that room, hide all the cable/pipe, and make it look awesome. I guess I could've still gotten close to that using the plywood approach. Next time.... :)
safety goggles
Great video but really couldn’t stand the music!
Girt re-enforcers are toooo short!
Is there a standard for how long such a thing should be?
@@wanderwoodfarm3801 they need to be long enough to transfer the moment required for the wind load on the girt through the screws connecting them. Probably 24-28" with three screws each end of the extensions.
2/0 copper thhn at 75c is not rated for 200 amps…….. gonna need 3/0 or 4/0 al.
In a dwelling with 2017 NEC, you can multiple the 200A by 83%. That’s 166A or so, which I believe is under the max rating for 2/0 copper at 75C. Your mileage will vary, so definitely check with your locale.
Hopefully you are not on the 2020 code because in that case you will need to re-work the outside with a single outside 300/400 amp service disconnect. Will be an issue for you with the way it is now.
2020 code does not allow for multiple any longer.
Thankfully, yes, we’re on 2017 in MI. We wanted to do a 400A and then sub-feed the house, but we were scared away by the limited availability and high cost of 400A panels.
NEC VIOLATION unprotected service conductors entering building, no 400 amp main service disconnect/ overcurrent and ground fault protection for unprotected service conductors also the utility transformer 400 main need to have a rating 22,000 Available interrupting current AIC
1/0 copper is not oversize for 400 amp 😂 it's only allowed 150 amps 😮
It is very frustrating when folks who are NOT professionals to make statements about the NEC, or say per Code, when they are in fact not true. I get it, you want to do your own work and that is fine but please do not make statements as FACT that are not actually Fact. For example 2/0 CU is good for 175 Amps per Table 310.16 [(310.15(B)(7) in 2017 NEC]. The 2/0 CU for 200A you are referring to is permitted er 310.12 [310.15(B)(7) in 2017 NEC] which only applies to Single-Family Dwellings (Not Barns) so you would have needed 3/0 CU, at least for the barn application. Also, the statement about limiting the loads to 80% is only true for continuous loads per 230.42(A)(1) but noncontinuous loads can be up to 200 Amps except that you did not state your calculated loads to be served per 230.42(A). Again, I have no problem with you doing it as the law permits it just remember when you place something on the internet folks will think everything you say is true and that leads to problems educators like myself have to fix with education. Now, the portion you see "damaged" on the conductor is actually just nylon and is sacrificial in your case so as long as the underlined insulation is not damaged the inspector should not have an issue.
I appreciate your feedback, and I understand how it would be frustrating for an expert to watch a novice share info she incompletely understands. Few specifics:
Our “barn” is a single-family dwelling, basically an apartment with a garage workshop. That’s why I used the 84% calculation for service entrance conductor sizing. I may upgrade to 3/0 though just for peace of mind.
I didn’t do a complete load calculation for our barn. In fact, it’s one of the many pieces of info that I struggled to find online. Perhaps you could direct me to a video or two that discusses the process for calculating continuous and peak loads?
Finally, thanks for the info regarding the wire nylon layer. I didn’t know that. And indeed the “sacrificial” layer is the only thing damaged. Very good to know.
Again, thanks. I’ll take your concerns into consideration for future videos.
Greetings. It is actually 83% rule where applicable. Here is an old unlisted video that may help -ua-cam.com/video/734a-2je6kQ/v-deo.html
To be honest I doubt your loads are high in this building so if you passed your inspection then I would leave what is...as it is at this point.
One small correction, in the 2017 NEC the relevant ampacity table for raceways and direct burial applications, in your application, would be 310.15(B)(16). I am not aware of a ‘Table’ 310.15(B)(7).
That is the 83% rule which is the same as the table in the 2020 NEC. In fact, the table exists in the 2017 NEC just back in Informative Annex D. However, the 83% methodology still applies.
@@MasterTheNEC I'm 26 years an Electrician.People like this keep me in business.They don't understand electrical theory so sooner or later they make costly mistakes.
Leave this stuff to the professionals
Here's a better way hire someone who knows what they are doing.....please everyone ......do not do this to your place......this is what not to do ....
Turn down the god damn music do I can hear you!!
This is precisely why home owners SHOULD NEVER install their own electrical system. They butcher the work, it will be absolutely amazing if this service install passes 2021 NEC “National Electric Code” for the area this home and barn are located. If it does pass inspection, somebody got bribed to sign off on this job for sure!!!
I’m very sorry sir but you showed your ignorance of electrical WORK. 2021 NEC “National Electrical Code” that you reference, does not exist! Also, even if you did reference a correct date NEC, she is required to install per the adopted by the AHJ code, not which version is in print. In other comments made by her, she is in 2017 NEC approved area.
One of those guys
how about some details as to WHY? Otherwise you loose some cred in the conversation.
I do agree I would have gone through the back of the panel and meter base, but what was done does appear functional
@@KevinCoop1 Whooptie doo!!! I said 2021 instead of 2020 NEC, the point is watch the video and pay attention to the install. That said, the install and subsequent redo of the previous work wasn’t completed properly. It certainly looks like a hack job at best by a unlicensed person and down right unsatisfactory if it were done by a professional. Personally, I’ve seen some crappy electrical installs in the past 20yrs but, this one is certainly even by the untrained eye not even close to professional quality nor that of a experienced unlicensed electrician handyman’s quality. Is that better Mr. Kevin?
@@davez2989 the details were evident Dave, just the service install on the wall was enough for a qualified electrical inspector to fail even on a good day. Yes, things happen and yes, things change the direction of a service install but, when the change happens qualified either licensed electricians or unlicensed electrician handymen know that sometimes you just have to start from scratch. Someone simply following code is only doing the minimum required for the job to be legal persay.
The reason why you ask? Well the NEC is there to provide absolute bare minimums to preserve life 1st, property 2nd and equipment 3rd. The common licensed electrician as well as the unlicensed electrician handymen know that and in most cases they do the job to be better than that of the NEC for the job at hand. The NEC changes often enough ever few years to provide updates to the code as things change due to either technology, equipment, mistakes, hazards, and/or injuries take place.