Contractors' Dream Shop: 800-Amp 3-Phase Power
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Electric Pro Academy - Real skills to make real money.
Synopsis:
We’re back with our friends at Emergent Construction ( www.emergent-group.com/projects ), this time upgrading their service from 200-amp single-phase to 800-amp 3-phase! It was a very full day for us, which will lead to many full days for them, as their machining tools can now run at full-bore. Here’s what it takes to juice a commercial builders shop.
Laced within the technical instruction are recommendations and points of professionalism employed daily by Jefferson Electric masters, journeymen, & apprentices.
If the instruction in this video is unclear or skew to what you are searching for, feel free to comment below for additional assistance.
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Outline:
0:00 - Introduction
0:20 - Utility Responsibility
2:02 - 1st Look At The Meter Cabinet
2:46 - Confirmations With The Shop Owner
6:30 - Why Joel’s A Lousy Electrician
8:03 - Determining General Meter Cabinet Placement
12:45 - Evaluating Interior Panel Placement
15:41 - Interior Panel Modification
18:15 - Meter Cabinet Pre-Fab
18:46 - Determining Precise Meter Cabinet Placement
25:46 - Killing Power
29:31 - Dismantling Old Exterior Hardware
33:09 - Mounting Meter Cabinet
37:29 - Exterior Penetration
46:01 - Exterior Conduit
50:04 - Running Wire & Terminating
55:41 - Final Utility Logistics
57:24 - Temporary Interior Wrap-Up
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43 minutes in is exactly why I just switched drills to one with anti kick back. My rotator cuff was taking a beating!
Amen, there are some good makita saws with anti kickback features.
Dood. I felt your pain on that kickback. I messed up my wrist something awful one time when I wasn't braced right and the bit jammed. It hurts just thinking about it. Actually it just plain hurts because it hasn't fully healed yet. That's what I get for injuring myself in my mid-forties. Pro tip: if you're going to injure yourself do it in your twenties while your body is still healing quickly.
When a bit or saw snags on metal reverse the drill direction and run for a moment to smooth out/ remove the snag, Then go for it again.
Thanks for doing good work!
I’ve been an electrical apprentice in southern Michigan for a little over a year now but I love watching you’re videos. I’ve picked up quite a few tips and have gotten to watch some projects like this that I haven’t tackled yet with my master. What I would give to be in a job site with you to pick you’re brain. Keep up the great quality work👍👍
I enjoy watching your videos. I really learn a lot from them because I am a Service electrician just fix thing that is already there no newly installed. So these new install and upgrades video that you do really make my day!
I am a licensed contractor in West Virginia. Our utility company supplies all the meter boxes free of charge... so that 400amp panel costs me zippo. Man, now I know how lucky that makes me.
Damn! It’s stupid expensive here.
You pay for it one way or another.... up front or via basic service charge or kWh rate.... Rule #1 There's no such thing as a free lunch
I dont need it but Wow, that would be cool to get that power to my house. Super bragging rights
@@chrisolofson7011 yep and 3 phase meter charge min here is $100 a month
I'm from VA, but live in Louisville now. I appreciate hearing the raw, seeing all the same things we deal with on a day-to-day. I've always noticed that fear of what people think of us, as craftsman, keeps us unteachable. I appreciate his humility in keeping it "raw and uncut". That's the most helpful part of all of this. How to build relationships, how to be tactful, and how to take advice from others. Or at least recognize that it helps to investigate other opinions. Knowing how to gather information professionally.
Excellent video with lots of explanations. Thank you.
I’m located in California , just to upgrade from 200 amp to 400 amp service its a 1 year+ wait! It’s been about a year and 3 months and I’m still waiting for Pg&e to come out and upgrade the transformer 😮
28:50 "We're gonna do half a million dollars a year for them, for a long long time"
Holy crap, what kind of work adds up to THAT much, ANNUALLY, for the SAME CLIENT?!?
21:31 I was thinking about whether you could attach unistrut to the building at appropriate heights and use the provided mounting holes in the cabinet, and what advantages or disadvantages that might have. I'm not familiar with that type of exterior wall though, so couldn't say how I'd prefer to attach to it.
Also, 49:18 my dad wished he ran empty conduit to every room when remodeling his house for future communication runs. A neighbor did so when building his new house and had used a few runs for something forgotten, even before construction was finished.
Love this. Very educational. You guys do so much. I can see the Higher IQ and critical thinking process.
Hey dude, nice work. We have a lot in common. Just Monday morning quarterbacking here but wouldn't it have been easier and time-saving to install a wiring trough on the inside beneath the distribution panels? A nice 6' or 8' trough allows for easy installation of additional panels too. The important thing is you got the customers power back on by the end of the day with limited time off line. Good video!
Great video going to school so all useful information great to hear the terms I’m learning out in the field
I would agree with the person who was talking to you about that the ct”s were backwards ( was that the power company foreman?) Also why not set a 800 amp mb panel inside with 100 and 200amp breakers for panels, ac units and large draw equipment fed out of there. (2)- 4” pipes in from can to main panel. Your future growth is radically limited since you are landing each panel in the ct can. 6 or 9 toggle bolts to hold that can to sheet metal? No strut? For 6 months of planning with the utility and customer, it was painful to watch how unorganized it was. I truly feel you did a dis-service to your “good” customer, because any future growth will need another outage to add another panel. That mean power co., customer down time, lost revenue, wasted materials, employees with lost wages. The 800 amp panel would have paid for itself on this job. You talked in this video about other jobs that planning for the future with solar, extra conduits, and your customers will remember you in the future. You try and find that niche in the market that others don’t or won’t do. On this job there was zero foresight in my opinion and the commercial, 3 phase, larger amperage jobs are not niche. Do it once. Do it right. Don’t redo.
Shop owner more worried about relabeling existing circuits then he was about future growth...
I was thinking the same thing, was it a cost thing not using a strut ‘H’ rack? Or even some fence post with strut across it?
Thank you for showing the kick back at minute 42, always my biggest fear on drilling holes. My father in law had an old 1/2 corded drill that reduced that kick, I wish we still had it.
You should use a dedicated right angle drill! I think a lot of them have kickback protection too.
Or new 4th gen milwaukee fuel hammer drill, has a automatic stop
Something to consider when anchoring to metal building. Senior Strut fits about 1/8" past the ridge when placed vertical in the valley.
There is normally a sturdy, rigid piece of angle they use at the bottom for screwing metal sheeting to and a z-purlin about 8' up typically. That purlin is identified by the row of screws.
You can anchor the strut vertically to these two more rigid pieces and throw a few toggles in for good measure then anchor your box to the strut.
I've even extended the strut all the way up and built a rack for mast pipe for over head.
Great video
LOVE Tims's hat. LETS GO PHILLS!
You are a hard worker!
We call those TA's , Terminal Adapters. Up here in Canada
6:40 these videos are the absolute best! Incredible
31:01 20-30k in scrap metal
Your real bro. I appreciate that.
You should be offering a free 3-phase equipment service check on equipment using 3-phase machinery using NFPA70B standard at least for your bigger customers the continuous predictable revenue on that from the follow up work is great. First there is the service paid work after findings from the checks, and then there is new work potential. So here is the cautious rather than skeptical approach never lose the optimism otherwise it will kill your enthusiasm and energy for work. Always organic growth so you can go slower and more thoughtfully where you can work out the kinks and issues. Where skepticism is valuable for an electrician is when someone assures you something is electrically safe….great job. Remember no one thinks like you that is your value added always trust your judgement but be humble enough to learn and improve always that will set you apart.
I appreciate your channel
Need the new Milwaukee gen 4 drill. It has auto stop to prevent those kicks. I love it
I rewired a dairy farm installed 1200 amp 480/277 service great job to do
Joel you need a proper corer with stabilized footings longer prep but saves your body from these injuries even a drill which can stop automatically the torque kickback. I went to Hilti several years back and have never gone back to lesser drills corers, or SDS.
Awesome video
Great Content! Personally keep a Lenox electrician hole saw kit in service van with 3/8 arbor for drill, and 7/16 arbor for Milwaukee hole hawg with quick lock. plus a few 7/16 extensions just for those scenarios. Those yellow Spyder Carbide holesaw kit are a great value, too aggressive on some material with drill, but also great on stucco or hardy board. Your jobs normally seem more planned out and somewhat smoother, whatever, shit happens. Some people mentioned using strut to mount can, some questioned toggles. Those flimsy metal buildings are always lame to mount heavy stuff too. Toggles like you did and some serious self tappers in the structural steel would of been my thing. I dont trust toggles or the tappers by themselves in your scenario. "BR'' essentially mentioned a panel board or a MDP 👍. Your content is very educational for people of all skill levels, thanks!
I do automation control systems. No I'm not an electrician. We deal with 800A main 480V all the time and at least once a month 1200A main will come though. Oh the fun of making 250 MCM tripled look good is tough. Great video.
Bro you are lucky! I have a commercial client whos upgrading to 1200 amp 3 phase and the boaring, trenching, and conduit is on us! All the power company does here in Baltimore is pull the cables thru the conduits we install
In Australia we pay for everything, however we can use approved contractors to complete works.
BGE.
I had Guide blocks for every Hole Saw I had. And for Grabby metal I'd use High speed and just let the bit chew away at the metal. I'd get much less binding. I also had home made extension of the Hole saw it's self. Kinda like having deep well sockets. Go through a double top plate in one pass lol. I've made my share of Home Made Tools.
I wish I worked with someone who had your optimism!
You can! Come on over. We work in Indiana :-)
@@ElectricProAcademy I'm in Alabama and I'd love to fr but I'm not in a position to move.
I have that dewalt drill... Going to buy the gen 4 milwaukee so my wrist and shoulder do not get beaten up anymore.. ALL drills should have anti kickback by now.
(~50:25) I drive a Prius as well, and I have considered adding both a roof rack and a small hitch to it that would have a fold-down hitch/basket Cargo Carrier (within the ~200-pound tongue-weight that the Prius maxes out at) to store extra stuff.
You might consider that for added storage and lugging things to/from jobsites, like stuff like wire lube), cuz a roof rack and Cargo Carrier in the back would really increase your storage.
Not all breakers are made to be reverse fed. Did you check the main one is ?. I call those anchors( wing bolts)
my dad and I have done some electrical work. we get our knowledge from UA-cam videos and books. we are pretty smart we know what size wire we are supposed to be using. if the wire needs to be enclosed in conduit. we have done some small projects. we turn off the power in the panel b4 working. we don't get anywhere near the lugs. but when we work it takes it all day. don't know how u guys get the job finished. we always get caught up on anchoring the box to the wall. just small stuff is difficult. but we been successful so far. I wouldn't mind someday being an electrician full time. getting more confident. but won't do any 240 volt work without certified help. but happy I can do some electrical work
22:53 those are butterflies outside of the Washington DC area!
Wow- I live in California, as soon as you go bigger than 400 amps, you are going with a 90” tall switchboard with pull, meter/ & distribution sections .
All of the buildings I have done for the past 10 yrs have been all 480/277 3 phase. All lighting changed to 277 ( if retro install ). Step down to 208 as needed then all new equipment 480. The reduction in their electric bill adds up quickly especially in the area of HVAC if they are all electric. I also don't see a need for any single phase panels if 3 phase is available.
Nice looking job guys. Those bolts are moggles or tollys, ha ha. I think Molly bolts is a brand name. I guess they are also called toggle bolts because the wings toggle? Maybe Toggle is a brand name too.
Being a skeptic goes for all troubleshooting in general. As an IT person, I always verify what I'm being told. Customer says they rebooted this morning? Verify. It's shown more than once that what I'm being told may not be the truth.
that kickback hurt my 26 year old shoulder just watching. I know you always run dealt tools but if you have any Milwaukee batteries i would look into getting the new m18 drill (the kit is the best value 3697-22) with anti kickback tech. Ive had them for a 2 months and its already saved me once.
you should use a right angle drill when possible, I use the Milwaukee 20V fuel for when i need leverage at weird angles
My old buddy who's an electrician would cringe at putting cardboard (Flammable) across exposed line feeds. He would literally put plastic caps on it to avoid anyone touching it after he pulls the meter.
I've been at electrician for 35 years Turn on 1020
Dingle dangle all the cables, here 🇩🇪 nobody get an inspection until it's really nice and neat.
43.09 I felt the pain 😂
46:15 deburring tools work great on that sort of thing, quicker and easier too
Another great video. Why do you guys love PVC conduit so much?
Two things, power lines are actually current limited by the time they reach the meter base, not by enough to save your life if you touch it but there is a fuse in those switches, usually around 5 amps at 7.8kv for residential, and you should use metal straps outside, the PVC ones seem to crack regularly and the metal ones arent that much more expensive especially for a job like this one.
you forgot no lux on the Neutral. BTW love the vids!
At 23:00 those are toggle bolts. Mollys are a tube with slits in the middle of the sides and a thread at the bottom with a bolt that when tightened pulls the bottom up folding out the sides of the tube.
Great video, How many grounding electrode did you installed? Are those 2 utility sets of 500kcmil?
You must have wanted to snap shop owners neck when he start talking about ripping apart existing panel and labeling circuits lol
Why not bolt unistrut to the building, 5 feet across the bottom - that is supported, and then mount the new panel to the unistrut? That seems a lit easier, less penetrations to the wall, and more secure!
I am REALLY suprised you are not required to have a 800 amp disconnect someplace! Then feed your 200 amp sub panels from that 800 amp disconnect.
Lets say the fire department comes in for a problem, and they shut off only 1 of the 2 panels in your building? And they think that power will be off to everything?
My thought would be to have a 400 amp 3 phase panel and maybe feed the old 200 amp panel. Then move the larger loads from the 200 amp panel to the new 400 amp panel, to transfer the A/C loads to the new panel.
I agree with the need to use a right angle drill when using a hole saw that size! Much more difficult to break your wrist (but not impossible) when you use a right angle drill.
Good to see how you guys do over the pond. I am a electrician in uk
Good job lads🤓😎🔨🔨
The main difference I think is there enclosures are so much spacious to cable size . We would us an MCCB with a micro logic trip for those mains . Plus the conduit which is essentially 2 inch waste pipe seems a lot quicker than metal trunking or ladder for swa .
How are you able to run a black #6 THHN for your ground?
did you put a conduit or something to protect that ground wire going into the building
50:20 wire lube, I believe I have helped on a project where they substituted with Dawn (or your soft supple alternative of choice) dish detergent.
I would have just brought in the full power into the building with a disconnect and splitter so all future expansion doesn't require utility involvement, otherwise nice nice
Those were Toggle Bolts, Molly Bolts don't have spring loaded toggles, instead they have an outer shaft that as you tighten it down, the have wings that spread out and eventually pinch the wall surface.
(36:10) What was the purpose of hammering the pry bar on the conduit before tightening down the locknut?
Line side of cut out on primary = top tap
Make adapter = TA
Mollies = toggle bolts.
That’s the lingo I use lol
56:15 I see a bulging penetration LB, I don't know if it is a problem but it would affect the watertight seal.
you should be using a much heavy duty drill for that to avoid the severe kick back. I forgot when they are called by they are much larger.
Love your videos
left left left ! always utility on the left
35:22 Why did you inserted toggle bolts before mounting? we are mounting a panel on huge self tappers, them drilling a holes and used heavy duty washers with toggle bolts. Last to remove selftappers, predrill and toggle bolts again. very fast and easy.
42:45 Makita drill has a preventive chip inside of device from hands damaging
When do they use transformers inside the building and what distance from the main panel?
Hi Joel I have a question for you do you know what color of wine should I use for the ground wire can I use Green wire or black or white wire or red wire from the Ground Rod to 100 amp sub panel ????
You only need to reverse the secondary CT leads if ct was backwards. Unless it is a pre made harness.
Those drills on low speed can be dangerous, my dad broke both of his thumbs with one of those big old silver drills!
The slow speed has more torque. Also, would the clutch work to prevent that drill from dismembering you?
MA(male adapters) and toggle bolts
No tape on the neutral in the cabinet? Or some kind of guard?
for those funny holes I installl my 1/4 pilot bit in the arbor of hole saw.
Why is it OK for those riser pipes to be open at the top? Does it matter if they accumulate rain water?
How do you know what size of grounding conductor to use for the size of service.?
Your not required to use expansion joints coming out of the ground into that meter box?
A little Jig-A-Loo or other silicone lube will help keep the hole saw from binding. I feel your pain!
As a British Sparks I would say male adaptor too. Would a unistrut frame not have worked here?
@23:02 - Molly Anchors, definitely. Would also accept Toggle Bolt.
Hell ya!
Hey great videos, a lot of HELP. I need to upgrade an old home in El Paso, TX , from about 40-60 amp panel to a 200 amp panel. Does the main wire feed coming from the pole, already sized to the 200 amp? "AND" I have 2 panels in that home, an outside small panel with a 40 amp breaker feeding the old existing panel, and a couple small breakers feeding an addition.. We added about 25 feet extra living space, 2 large rooms, so the meter was moved to the end of the 25 foot NEW building, and the small box below the meter was added. Will my NEW 200 amp upgrade be better on the outside beside the meter "OR" on the inside where the old existing panel is. Just another 25 feet of wire I would need to run(??), Oh well. Thank You, GOD Bless !!
What does "dry firing" a transformer mean? Open circuit test?? No load test?
In canada we call those TA's ( threaded adaptors)
Question: Wondering if it is reasonable for a restaurant to call out for a 1200 amp panel. The restaurant is 7200 square feet with one kitchen and a full bar and an elevator with 2 HVac units. most contractors are telling me 400 amp panel will do.
That cliff guy questions everything you do, I couldn’t deal with that day in and day out. There’s constructive criticism, then there is god complex, hard to tell where he’s at!
when you drill metal the slower the rpm's sure you'll get more torque but you jam more , speed up and you get a nicer cut , cleaner cut, and you don't jam as much because it's momentum can carry the spinning motion going. of course it's only possible with the correct bit , so that's the most important thing..
DONT forget to paint it white so it can be what they call "designer" , and "stylish"
Hopefully those CTs are shorted since they aren't wired in otherwise you'll get damage running power through them. Are the PTs built into the CTs for metering as well?
Usually, there is a test switch built into the meter socket. You wire the CT secondaries and voltage taps to the test switch, and it opens the voltage taps, and shorts the CT secondaries.
It is very common that metering is done without PT's, and that the meter directly measures the grid voltage. If you have voltages exceeding 480V nominal, it is likely that you would require PT's, or their newer alternative, LEA's.
@@carultch Yes, i'm used to the test switch where you pull out the stab (not sure the technical name) and it grounds outs the secondary's. But I didn't see anything wired up in the video. Interesting to know about the PTs not being used. It blew my mind when I learned about the two watt-hour meters the PUD used at work. I'll have to ask about PTs if they use them. Thanks for the info!
At 23:00, those are called "toggle bolts".
How many employees do have? Is it hard to keep good help?
Showed this to my boss and he calls you milk worker electrician 😂🤣 and it's true!!
PLEASE whoever sees this…, answer me! The reason of having two sets of service drop bonded together( which I didn’t even know you can do this though I just became a journeyman) is it because 800 amp is a lot of loads,If so what’s the highest and lowest loads can you have? Also when and where can you use this system?
34:43 👍🏻s up for a good water seal!
800 amps for only 4-5 wood shop machines. Does this seam overkill or is it just me. He was getting by with a rotary phase converter prior to the new saw from the looks of it. Only feeds a single 200 amp panel. Guy said he's only going to be there for another year or so. Probably would have had some unistrut holding up the outside CT cabinet.
Run that drill on high with the last number torque setting before straight drill, let it eat slow.
Why do you use insulating bushings on pvc?