I'm paying 750$ a semester plus books to for a training program where my instructor reads off answers from the previous weeks assignments and dictates the current weeks assignments I study labs and lectures all on my own. And here I find this guy giving out exceptional descriptions of how electrical theory and application works. I'm just going to go over my assignment and refer to this UA-cam channel
Awesome explanation. I'm not an electrician, but I work in a "national home improvement store" in the electrical department and your videos have helped me so much to understand what my customers are talking about and asking for. I absolutely don't give electrical advice and always refer DIY'ers to an electrician when they obviously don't have a clue what they're talking about. I just had a customer a few days ago asking about the need to add up all his breakers. I told him I was sure that wasn't how it worked but that it was beyond my pay grade to know the procedure. Hoping he hasn't accidentally killed himself or burned his house down so far as it was very very clear he had no business taking on the project he was working on. It's amazing how many people come to me for free advice (which I don't give) on things. They see the dude in the store as a free alternative to spending money on an electrician and I tell them I can't do that for them. It doesn't help that stores like mine pretend that their workers are "experts" when we clearly are not.
I’m a Red Seal construction electrician in Nova Scotia Canada. Your channel is awesome to educate folks on our trade and how in depth it actually is. Most people think we just change light bulbs and put wires to point a to b.
You are so stinking helpful, i learn more through you than i ever did in the apprenticeship! Not to take anything away from you, but after a year i found out my hours weren't being logged, so kinda tells you about my "apprenticeship"! Still, almost 20 years ago i was an electrician for about 4 years total. I have learned more through your videos than in that 4 years. Does anyone else have questions about converting old spaces? I am making an appartment in the back of an OLD commercial building. I need to break circuits up for GFCI kitchen, bath, etc. And add a few dedicated circuits. 200amp main feed 2 smaller sub panels. 1 feeds another appartment space, and 1 feeds a store front. ALL the wiring is so confusing. Pretty sure the last 70 years of remodels aren't helping. The labeling in the panels is for stuff that doesn't exist, but wiring still does...
Lighting changed a lot in 2020 code. Led eats way less of course... bra I just took my end of apprenticeship test and those load calc questions were just brutal. You never get the right answer. Thanks for all your work Dustin
I am just a home owner with a bit of knowledge trying to keep my home from fry it's self and gaining some knowledge when fixing or upgrading my home. Your channel and explanations are great... and yes i understand all the terms you use. Thats why i subscribed.
My understanding of it (I'm a heavy truck mechanic) is that a fuse/breaker is sized to protect the wire depending on gauge. Even when in use you are rarely anywhere close to the amperage of the breaker for most applications under most applications.
I have 100 amp service. I thought about upgrading to 150 as we have a lot of pets and heat lamps. I also have a hot tub and central air. For the heck of it I turned the hot tub on full during the summer while the central air was running as well as most all the rest of the stuff. I then clamped the mains to read the amperage draw. I got 16 amps on one and 13 on the other. So I felt a bit better knowing that.
Great video, love the way you explain things. I enjoy hearing other electricians explain their understanding of why things are done the way they are, as it might give me a different perspective, or I may even learn something new. I'm from Canada, and we do things a little differently, but probably end up with pretty much the same end result for the demand load to calculate the main breaker for the service. However, we are only allowed to derate the service entrance conductors by 5%, and this usually ends up with the wire having a capacity that is equal to or just over the size of the main breaker. The reason why is that the breaker is there to protect the wire, so even though currently there is not enough demand in the system to overload the conductors, at some point in the future, things may be added which would not require the main breaker to be upsized. As most main breakers are rated continuous duty, this could potentially be too much load for the conductors if they are only able to handle 83% of the main breaker (I've seen plenty of 200A services where the demand calculation is definitely over 166A).
Very good explanation as a longtime master electrician myself i usually just use the term demand factors to simplify the explanation to people because i don't want to unnecessarily spend 20 minutes explaining this to people.
Sometimes we get repair calls from home inspections. One time a home owner selling his house called me because inspector called him out on “double tapped” breakers. Inspector recommended that qualified electrician install a sub panel. I recommended a couple of “piggyback” breakers to remedy the problem. A lot cheaper, and all were lighting circuits anyway. Fast forward a few weeks, new owner takes possession of the home. She got my number somehow and DEMANDED that I come out there and install a sub panel free of charge because I didn’t do what I was supposed to do, and that she had a master electrician standing there with her and that he added up all the breakers and the service was highly overloaded. I said “he’s either not much of an electrician or he’s trying to rip you off.” She hung up and I never heard from her again.😂😂😂
A the olde I got the master electrician here, one that cannot speak for himself, how convenient, Being a E&E Engineer +a Sparky, we all know, you cannot Know or remember it all, That being said, it's obvious that people try to get one over on you, S. T. E. M is not like the arts or law (statute or common) that you can argue the point, most people that are not in the above, believe word can be used to doodle you, I am usually patient and ask for the person to be put on the phone, then get a gauge of the person, North America is really nice to work & live, as a brit,
In the last house I bought all branch circuits were tandem breakers. And the idiot who wired the panel ran red-black-red-black all the way down on the tandem breakers. Great way to have overheated neutrals. I rewired the tandem breakers red-red-black-black. Classic case of doing work by rote and not understanding how it works. It's these-fly by-night tech schools that are responsible for this incompetent work.
@@andydelle4509 Wow! What an idiot! That could’ve created a BIG problem. All tandem breakers too? We don’t put those things in unless absolutely necessary. Good thing you found and fixed it, a lot of inspectors wouldn’t know to write that up.
@@CA-lk6fd Well it's even worse. Lots of can fixtures and no Romex clamps used! And no, these cans did not have the built in clamps either. Just run the cable into the hole! House was built in 1991.
@@andydelle4509 it simply amazes me how people don’t do things the proper way. I’ve been doing electrical work for 24 years now, residential and commercial. The first guy I ever worked for always told us, “do it right, or walk away from it.” I was a young little punk kid back then, but I look back now and appreciate him being hard on me. I have always strived to do things according to code and beyond. It makes me feel good when an inspector tells me “that looks great, you guys do great work.” That’s the only way I know how to do it. If I don’t know, I’ll find out. I pride myself in being the best I can be because what we (electricians) do is important.
Very informative video, great job dealing with a confusing subject. Keep up the great work . People, please remember that no matter how much you learn from these videos, there’s no substitute for a SKILLED trades person. 👍
I did work at a really nice house in a rich part of town and it had two parallel runs of 200 amps at his service. The lugs on the line and load side of the meter were double lugs and it split off to two 200 amp main breaker panels in the garage. Was pretty interesting to see at a house
I just saw the video on 1phase v 3 phase wow no no no there is nopush pullin. Generators have a rotating fields of n and south poles .depnding on speed 1800 rpm u would have 4 poles connected in series to a dc exciter on back end . u have to make dc b 4 u can generate ac .the rotating magnetic fields r. Controlled by v regulator . that moves .the stator. Or stationary part of gen set is made up of individual coils of wire that r spaced 120° apart on 360 rotation .there r 6 coils .wen u series connect u get nominal network 480/277 .wen connested in parelle u get 208\120 v 3phase 3 wire u tap t4 t5 t6 for 4 th wire for 120 neutral .once the gen is running the rotating dc magnetic field is inducing voltage in statsionary windings there is no current flow outward untill a load is applied to l1 l2 l3 .the 4th wire is bonded to gen frame and u derive your egc from that and is. Not conn to neut any where else in system and shoukd have no current flow and no v potensial on conductor and runs w crckt condutors . your loops r short crkt unless u put resistance in .no push pull no xtra amps comin back to asist next phase .fig i c if this helps. Thanks 4 reading single phase transformer. In res areas r fed w 7200 v off 3 phase network of 13.800 v plus grounded conductor
You almost scared me off with your "800A" sum at the beginning, but I'm glad I stayed. I've always done minor work myself. I asked an "electrician" about this question a while ago and he obviously gave me the wrong answer. Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Love this stuff. In 1986 I went to the library for 3 months to learn electric AND gas....I totally rewired my house is Da Yookay. The inspector had a 32 point checklist and my work passed 31..The other was a 20 second job to fix. Now I live in Wisconsin and its all different..but the same if you know what I mean... Love learning new concepts like this....
4:10 I have 400 amp service, and the meter base/socket looks the same to me as a 200 amp service. Essentially, I have 400 Amps at the meter, split into two 200 amp outside breakers/disconnects. They run to a 200 amp panel in my house and a separate 200 amp panel in my garage/upstairs apartment. That then makes my house and garage 200 amp panels actually sub-panels, the neutrals and grounds are required to be separated back to the outside disconnects and they are then bonded there. The reason for this is I have two electric vehicle chargers in the garage, plus a 4 ton HVAC system, washer/dryer, oven etc. in the garage apartment.
For a home even 200 amps is a bit much. However in some industries even 400 amps might not be enough. I work in a pretty small theater and we have a 3 phase 400 amp service, at one time we were running a lighting dimmer rack that would deliver 72kW to 96 750 watt lights, so it needs quite a bit of power, that was run on a huge 240 volt 400 amp safety switch that was fed directly from the transformer outside the building that is a 300KVA transformer. And we also have one main 3 phase panel and 3 sub panels that run everything else in the building and that is also a 400 amp service. What most people don’t realize that as you go through the system you are underrating your services, we start with 300KVA transformer that can do 600 amps, then we send that to the dimmer rack and the main service panel and both of those are rated at 400 amps, then we send feeders from the main panel to a 200 amp sub panel, and then we send feeders from that to 2 100 amp sub panels. But the other thing there is that it’s the same thing as a house we aren’t constantly using all of the power. When we are doing a show we run the dimmer rack at almost it’s max load, so about 350 amps, and then we have the power for the rest of the equipment which is probably about 40 amps, so we still aren’t using the full service rating and we probably never will.
I just stumbled across your page. I’m a big proponent of “common sense” explanations & you do a GREAT job. Even better, you don’t just reflexively fall back on BCSS (because code says so). WE collectively wrote NFPA 70 et al & it’s based on applied common sense of experienced people. Which is informed by modeling, analysis, and *failures.* Teaching *why* we do what we do in clear, accessible language is a great service to pros here for education as well as the public. Keep up the good work!
As an EE for 42 yes, there's a big difference between residential & commercial NFPA (NEC) codes for calculating loads on service entrance conductors and load centers vs panel boards main breakers. Great explanation but most won't understand. A little bit of knowledge (Architects) is dangerous.
This is a good breakdown. I had to learn this 2 years ago when I decided to finish off an unfinished basement that had no electricity to it, and building code required I split the service at the Meter, which required me to upgrade to 400 AMP service. I have no hesitation for upgrading service as it allowed me to install a home EV charger.
@m rapacki The original breaker were set up as follows: 4x15 amp breakers for lights (Bedrooms, hall & loft area, Living room/ dining room and kitchen/ library. 6x20 amp breakers - non GFI outlets (local code stipulated no more than 10 outlets per breaker, and outlets be spaced no more than 12' apart). They are broken out as such - Garage, Master Bedroom, Bedrooms (2, 3 &4), Loft & hallway, dining & library, guest bedroom and living room 3x20 amp breakers - GFI - Kitchen outlet, upstairs bathrooms, downstairs bathrooms 4x20 amp breakers for dedicated items (microwave, refrigerator, and dishwasher/ disposal, Wash machine) 1x40 amp breaker for hot water heater 1x50 amp breaker for kitchen stove 1x30 amp breaker for dryer 1x60 amp breaker for AC unit 1x15 amp breaker for outside lights 1x20 amp breaker for outside outlets (4x). My utilization score was 149 Amps for a 200 amp service, and would be limited to a maximum score of 160. In order to get permitted, I would have been able to add 3x 20 amp breakers for outlets (each score at 3 amps), and one 15 amp switch for lights (scored at 2 points) before I would have maxed out. When I got the basement permitted, I was told if I ever planned on adding an AC unit or heater, I'd have to increase my service load. I had planned to add a heat pump than runs on a 30 amp breaker, which would automatically put me over, and they would not permit the project until service was upgraded. I did get called out on the code for can lights because although I used high efficiency LED's, they have to run the calculation as if you are using incandescent filament bulbs, and I was required to cut the total # of lights on a circuit between 2x15 amp circuits. Even though a 15 amp circuit can handle 1800 watts, code limits it to 1440 watts, and with each can light rated at 100 watt bulbs, I could only 14 can lights per circuit. As stupid as it is, the pool room (18'x26') has 15 can lights and 2 fans with lights. I had to take 1 can light off the circuit, and dedicate a circuit to the fans, fan lights and a single can light. The basement has its own 100 amp service (way overkill), but I took the 400 amp service and split it at the meter for 200 amps to the main part of the house, 100 amps to the basement and 100 amp dedicated to the garage. This allows me to add a 80 Amp EV charger whenever I want without needing a permit, or change to service. Since I had plenty of power to the basement, it is broken down as such: 30 amp circuit - heat pump (25 points) 20 amp circuit - dedicated for FRIDGE and SEWER PUMP (12 points each - 24 combined) 20 amp circuit (x5 kitchen GFCI, Bathroom GFCI, and 3 circuits for outlets. (3 points a piece, 15 points total) 3x 15 amp light circuits (2 points a piece, 6 total) The utilization score for the basement is 70 out of a possible 80 per local code (80% score of breaker box capacity, which was 100 Amps). I also removed 3 points from the upstairs utilization score (down to 146) by removing a 20 amp circuit that fed 3 lights and 1 outlet in the basement.
@@Xander-dx6mw we upgraded to 400A from 225A. 6000sqft divided into 6 apts. 6 of each appliances and 2 AC units. 300A meter bases and panels aren’t easy to get so we went 400A.
My dad was a construction electrician. I did a few summer jobs with him before joining the Navy, where I was an AE. In the 1980s my brother (journeyman electrician) was working with a Fluor Corporation electrical engineer going into 1940s-70s skyscrapers and testing the feeders to design upgrades, due to all the modern office equipment. In the 1990s I worked as an electrical assembler in manufacturing and we sized conductors by what fit the component. I prefer an up-sized conductor over a minimum-size conductor. Sure you want that winning low bid that lands the job, but sell the customer on future loading resulting increased costs of material and labor to upgrade. Also, what if a solar/wind system was to back feed onto the grid?
I have an electrical question I had an electrical question that's why I came to your site. My best friend Big Mike always had tbe correct answer to aNY and all computer and electrical questions .Pure genius. So since he passed a few years back I've had no mentor I could reach out to. You may hv become my go-to from here on out. So, learn me some electrical skills please. Thanks for the lesson....Rob Price
When doing the standard calculation, I'm wondering how the change from incandescent to led lighting has affected that part of your formula? Going from 60 watt bulbs to 9 watts is a big difference. And have the newer appliances reduced their total load in a noticeable way, compared to something made in the 60's? Do houses now need the same size of service that we used to, not that long ago?
Apprentice here not a journeyman yet so take my word with a bit of salt. The formula doesn't change for led lighting it just means that we will have a smaller load on the service and can size accordingly. Whether appliances pull more than they used to varies greatly. Yes our microwaves may be more efficient than they used to but many manufacturers take that opportunity to increase the power of the microwave. But on the whole the size of the average service is most definitely increasing not decreasing. More and more and more modern appliances are electrically powered vs other sources. Electric stove tops heaters and dryers instead of gas ones for example. On demand tankless electric hot water heaters instead of gas tanked water heaters. More and more computers and televisions and phones and laptops being charged. The most recent huge bump is electric vehicle charging. Some appliances may be more efficient than their counterparts from the 60s but the number of appliances in the average home has increased dramatically.
There's several things to consider here. The power we use now is likely quite a bit lower for many things (lighting) but we seem to use that over longer periods of time when you throw in all of the appliances that draw all day long. Walk around your home and count up all those little wall chargers, cable boxes, tv sets, DVD players, telephones, answering machines, night lights, clock radios, garage openers, fridges, freezers, etc. If they were all "off" it would still add up to more than you think because they have electronic controls. (you should see my power bill) Next add in the fact that we have many more things we didn't have 50 years ago.... car chargers, central AC, clothes drier, and electric water heaters are all common now. Throw in the ever changing electrical code with more margin for safety, and the size of the service has increased. In some cases the service size is almost dictated by the number of breakers required due to bathrooms, kitchens, and garages, needing home runs these days. Basically you are stuck installing a 200 amp panel for a home that may never see more than a 60 amp draw because code calls for more than 20 breakers. The cost difference is only a few hundred bucks between 100 and 200 amp service.
One of the biggest new loads is Air conditioning. When I was a kid in Seattle air-conditioning was unheard of. Now we are way over 50% of homes having air-conditioning in Seattle. I think the air-conditioning load is still growing faster than electric car charging is.
@@ecospider5 ... here in the northeast we get humidity so I'd guess that 99% of new construction has central AC. I can't think of a home here that doesn't have either window units or central AC. It's all about comfort and convenience... even on an older place where the 60 amp fuse panel might be smoking, or close to it.
I took care of a large rooming house for 11 years. It was an old knob and tube house which had the wiring upgraded. It had wiring from the 40's & the 60's as well as some original knob and tube. The main breaker box had at least 30 breakers & the pony box had another 12 breakers. The main breaker was only 70amps. I asked the utility company if I could use a larger breaker & they said "No, you only have a 70amp service". I'm surprised it never tripped a main breaker.
I work for multiple apartment complexes in Austin/Cedar Park & I get calls for no elec everyday, mom is cooking and cleaning, dad and son are both on computers, daughter is getting ready in bathroom. Air conditioner blasting. Same people everyday same problem, way too many items used at same time. Explained to them everytime, some people are just stupid I guess. Nope it's just me. Thnx, keep the vids coming!
You explained this in a very logical manner. My main breaker for the outside electric line is only 200 amp, and that's from the electric company. My main breaker inside my home is the same, be no reason to go higher. Like you said not everything is gonna be running at the same time anyways. My biggest power usage is my electric furnace, and it's only on 60 amp breakers and that's the recommended rating for the furnace. Heck today's appliances are actually pretty efficient, and mostly don't even max out the breaker amp rating. You could add up all the amps the breakers support, then add up the actual use and there would be a fairly good difference.
Yikes !!! A 60 amp electric furnace? Even if it is on a 60 amp breaker and only really draws about 48 amps.... That's a perfect candidate for a change out with a Heat Pump. Unless you are in a very cold climate.... You can save up to 75% in kWh. Don't get me wrong... We should all use way more electricity powered by Nuclear Reactors everywhere... But that's a can of worms. I have never heard the term Electric Furnace, not that I can remember.
These days, with wireless meters that can plot usage on an hourly basis, I'm surprised they don't use that data when planning a renovation. Plotting actual usage has to be more accurate than guesses based on floor surface area, etc. Of course you have to allow for peak usage when everything happens to occur on at the same time, but that's another story.
That only works if you have such a system -- few people have them. And it all rests on the ability to determine what the loads are. My house usage is a nearly constant 1kW. So constant, in fact, the power company cannot begin to guess what the loads are. (they claim 60% of my power is "Water Heater"... they know for a fact this house has _never_ had electric water heat.) I know what's what, because I can hang a meter on each circuit.
Prime example of using the electric meter for planning is industrial settings where a demand meter can supply data on actual use at peak times. After working at a generator company for near 25 years we've used a utility bill to determine the proper sizing of a gen set. In this case it was a double check after the usual calculations. The reason being is a gen set is seldom required to power the whole building at max service capacity and it can save thousands on an installation.
"In the old days" a paper wheel graph would be used to determine use and time to plan/plot appliance use and energy savings, goes to pot when things are done outside the parameters set aside. You can collect all the data you want , but usage can vary on weather or whim.
I think the number one factor that's going to change the amount of power being used in a house is the amount of people living in the house. A house with a family and 3 kids is going to consume way more power than a house with only one grandma living in it.
So weird that this would come across my feed today. Friday I was at a customer's home working on a range and went to shut off the breaker to the appliance. I was staring at the breaker box wondering how they come up with 200A service when all the numbers of breakers dont add up. Thanks for the explanation!
When I first moved to Austin I was on a job where I was landing the wires on the breakers black/red/blue(like everywhere in the US) A guy I was working with saw what I was doing and freaked out on me, yelling “what are you doing?” Puzzled I replied “landing the wires on the breakers” He responded “why are you doing black/red/blue? It’s red/black/blue!!!” I told him that everywhere else in country does it blk/red/blu. His response was priceless, “everywhere does it wrong”
I just found this channel, and man after less than a minute I'm already glad I did. I'm an electrical engineering hobbyist, so I'm always watching all sorts of channels about EE and maker stuff and that, which is all well and good. It's fun, but not practical. Except maybe Big Clive. But channels like this which cover actual... I'm not sure what the word is but stuff which applies to home and commercial electrical set ups. Like junction boxes, breakers, and all of that fun stuff I'd be learning in a trade school in an ideal world. I guess this is just my clumsy way of saying you've earned yourself a new sub. And I'm looking forward to the video watching binge I'm about to go on on your channel. Cheers, buddy!
I have 600A service, but I also have 3 225A boxes. I don’t think I’ll ever use all of it, but it is really nice for running lots of servers! I should send you a pic of my setup. I’m close to you. If you ever want to make a video of a crazy home setup let me know.
That's why you should do a load cal sheet to determine the size of panel...that's what I was taught back in the 70's, And that's what I still do! In general, 200 amp service is plenty for any average house, and if you think you need more, the power company will question it and send out someone to determine if you actually need more than 200 amps.
When you talk about the "black phase" and the "red phase" in a single family (or townhouse, small business, etc.), and please correct me if I am wrong, the "red" and "black" are the "hot" leads from a "split" single phase 240vac service. Not until you get into a building that has equipment (such as multiple elevators) that requires a heavier duty service does the "multi-phase - typically three phase 208 vac" service concept come into play.
Good explanation. At the farmhouse I lived in as a teen, (still go to visit one a year usually) they have a 120/208 v 3ph 600 amp service, but we have a grain dryer that had a 20 hp motor, and he had some large augers that had 3 ph motors, 5 horsepower, also we have a large pole barn that has welders, air compressors, etc, and a spot to plug in engine block heaters for the diesel equipment. There is a 150 amp 1ph panel in the house, a 250 amp 1 ph panel in the pole barn, and we have 200 amp 3 ph service running towards the area where the grain dryers and augers are located. Definitely overkill in my opinion.
Great explanation. Also something that is absolutely nuts is I’ve now put up 2 800 Amp services on houses in Wyoming!! Mostly because they can only use electric heat where I’m at. It’s quite an experience, they have 500 KC mill going to them.
Why not? I realize that natural gas may not be available in a rural area, but couldn't they get propane or home heating oil? It seems to me that it would be a whole lot cheaper than electric heating in a very cold climate.
Thanks bro! Your channel is really helping me touch up on a lots of stuff I may have forgotten. Wish I was fluent in load calculations an voltage drops.... most of what I know is hands on an not academic. You should do a vid on the "Quick Bend" Application.
Super interesting. I've wired 200 amp boxes on past. Recently built large shop and had my first 400 amp service put in (I still have to wire it in to 2 200 amp boxes. I wanted more spaces as I have to run several 240 volt item's (truck lift, welder hookups, hot water heater and air compressor hookups, all 240 v) as well as plugs, lights and long runs to outlying barn and backyard ( for hot tub, lights, etc.). I'd rather have more breaker spaces to expand in the future.
is that going to be a true 400-amp service or a pair of 200s? (we call that a 320-amp service here) The main difference between the two is in a residential setting they will allow smaller feed wires because it's mostly for all the home runs and breaker space, rather than full loads.
I believe it's actually 320. Elec company says I can use 4/0 4/0 2/0 SE wire, aluminum and I intend to run 2 separate lines from box to my 2 200 amp boxes, underground, in electrical pvc
@@kennethcallahan7410 ... that feeder combo says it all. 4/0 Al is rated for about 175 amps and the 2/0 neutral says they are allowing for a large 240 volt load and an undersized neutral is ok. Are they really allowing SE cable in a buried conduit or do you mean individual conductors in Al with a W/2 rating?
@@rupe53 I'm doing Indiv conductors from service pole in conduit to the two boxes, or that's the plan. I have to go 130 ft from pole to the boxes which will be inside shop and wanted underground vs overhead. Am putting in conduit to protect wire due to soil here which is clay and very rocky and the rocks move around a lot
@@kennethcallahan7410 Ok, good deal. You mentioned SE wire which I took to mean Service Entrance cable, which is the grey jacketed stuff you see going down the outside of a home. It's not allowed to go any distance in conduit other than a short run for protection. Do yourself a favor and go larger than you need on the conduit. Also use sweep elbows. It can be a bear to pull that distance. If you have the option, you can lay the wire out and walk each piece of conduit into place. That can be a real back saver if there is more that 2 elbows on the run.
Hi, I had a quick question. Thank you for your time in answering. I just wanted to know if all 225Amp main service panel (solar ready) were the same size as far as Height x Width? The contractor my parent's hired to install solar, upgraded their 100A panel to 225A for solar and the HOA they live at are making a big deal about the MPS not being the same size as the neighbor, which is next to their panel. Any advise or help would be appreciated.
Did you ever do the follow-up videos you talked about where you walk through doing the actual Standard/Optional Method calculations? I could use that info..
we once designed an addition for a house that was already a fairly large house with an indoor pool (where the humidity and temperature of the pool room was controlled in addition to the houses AC system) and the owner had a Model X Tesla so we had to provide for a Charger in the existing garage and a Charger in the additions Garage, one of the issues we came across was the house was already pretty much maxed out on a 400 Amp service and they couldn't expand because the power company simply didn't have any more capacity on the wires supplying the street the house was on. I know we ended up installing a massive Generac generator, I think that was the final decision on how to overcome the 400 Amp service limitation
Always amazes me that in the UK we still have a lot of properties with 60amp services!! All though the average is 100amp. On some “new builds” they are now installing 3 phase 100amp supplies to allow for heat pumps, solar PV, EV charge points etc.
In Philadelphia's older rowhouse neighborhoods, many row units built in the 1930s have 60 amp service. I managed to trip the main breaker one day with a lot on (laundry, TV etc).
@@bigkirbyhj666 Oh, it's amps. The main breaker had "60" printed on its handle. Even in the 1980s that was deemed obsolete, most homeowners had already upgraded to 100.
Electric cars are changing things a lot. My EV runs 11.5 KW(240V @ 48 amps) continuous and my wife’s EV runs at 3.6 KW(240V @ ~16 amps) for 6 hours a day.
I've got 2 200 amp services running off a 400 amp meter, I consolidated 2 meters into 1 because my Public Utility Chelan County PUD charges a meter fee and when I consolidated it was $7 dollars per meter, that was 22 years ago. With that being said I've saved a substantial amount of money doing that one upgrade seeings how the home was built in 1957. Just figuring on 7 dollars a month over 22 years saved me $1848 which is about the actual cost of all the stuff I did 22 years ago. I am sure the per meter cost has gone up over the past 22 years as everything has which would make those savings even more. The driving factor was to clean up my air space over my property as I took all the utilities and went underground so I wouldn't have wires running all across my property and I was able to relocate the meter head off the back of my home to the alley side of my shop. Not only did this give me a cleaner skyline it made my property safer for moving ladders and bringing dump trucks in without the worry of the utility lines along with making reading my meter easier as my property is completely fenced.
Well I can talk on this subject by my own experience. I live in a 67 year old house that had a 100amp Zinco breaker box that had to go. Well I discovered what they call 320 amp service continuous 400amp at 4 hours. After contacting the electrical company to see if the transformer and it’s capacity if I could go to a 320 continuous service, well they said no problem the transformer was at 45% capacity load for all the houses that it serviced. So I installed a 320 continuous service with a 200amp box in the basement to replace the Zinco box and another 200amp box out in the garage off one main meter base that was designed to handle 2 sub boxes. The reason they call it a 320 continuous 400amp for 4 hours is if you go to a 400amp service all the time you need engineering blueprints for your installation plus probably some extra equipment. Also while doing this installation I installed a generator cutout switch. On a Tim Allen home improvement scale of 1 to 10 , this job was a 15. I did this conversion in 2004 and I figured I spent 7,000.00 dollars on supplies and a crane truck to lower in the mast head and I did all the work myself. The city electrical inspector was impressed and said he had warehouses in his jurisdiction that didn’t have this much power and service capability in them. I figured if I paid a company to do what I did the job would of cost 15,000.00 dollars. Also I had to relocate electrical circuits and compressor air lines that where in the way, but in the end it was well worth it.
Thank you, it’s been a long time coming. I used to make videos that were 45 min long lol - so unnecessary, but hell they have over a million views so I guess there’s something people liked about them. More to the point these days though 👌
It would be even better if the video allowed speed control. I usually listen at 1.5x or 1.75x speeds. It's data to my ears not a conversation. For Slow talkers I go with 2.0x.
Great video !!! I am not an electrician at all but learn a lot from your videos. Could you do a video on what inspectors are looking for when you DIY your own sub panel ? I am guessing the inspector I am dealing with does not want to pass my sub panel in the shed due to i am not license electrician and giving me a hard time. asking for " load calculation"
Except for heating in winter, the continuous loads typically are refrigerator/freezer, water pump [intermittent] cable boxes and internet boxes, washer & dryer loads are not always on.
@@kylestan2250 Cable boxes, modems, etc use very little power, typically 2 watts or less. Most TVs are LCD or LED flat screen that use much lower wattage than the old CRT tube TVs. Back in the day, 50s 60s 70s most homes had waffle irons, toasters, grills, that used huge amounts of power like 1500w or 2000w. But, electricity was very cheap, 2 cents per Kilowatt hour, and we were very low-tech. Nobody had laptops and cell phones which use very little power. Everybody used incandescent bulbs for light, and some heat in the winter.
It's simple. That's the most power that is available. More breakers, mean more areas can have a separate breaker. You just can't exceed the household amp limit. You can run, different things, in different parts of the house, as long as the total amps don't exceed the household limit.
One grid-tie solar system, electric water heater, 240VAC table saw, and L2 EV charger later., and I'm really happy the original builder of my home didn't skimp and had decided on a 200A service. The original house only had the A/C system and electric oven as big-ticket items. I still have fairly comfortable margins though one of the sub-panels is closing in on 75A going full-out and probably shouldn't have anything more added to it. -Matt
It means if you load up every circuit in your house, expect to blow the main breaker. Not gonna happen you say? I am seeing it happen a lot with people charging their cars.
I wired a house once that had a 400 amp service, (back in the 70's) The house had two of everything in the kitchen, 2-ovens two sub-zero fridges, (a person could live in one of those), heated driveway, pool/house. BIG HOUSE!!!. Most of our large houses built back then had a 300 amp service but we did a few really large houses. I wired the condo of the daughter-in law of Charles Kettering, (the guy that invented the electric starter for automobiles) her condo had 5 furnaces, she had 5 people that worked in her house, butler/cook so on, her condo had an Elevator (it was only a 3 story building) .While working in her condo while it was under construction she caught me one day I was drinking a Pepsi in her elevator and chewed me out ) : but she was still a very nice lady (:
I was at a project for a small historical building. The engineer called for a 600 Amp service. The contractor said, this is a two story building not a skyscraper. I don't get it. It might explain why the project budget was over 3 million. And none of it works.
In some European countries, distribution fees depend upon the size of the main breaker, and it is not uncommon for homeowners to arbitrarily 'downsize' the service supply to 15 A or 25 A to save a few euros, and live with not being able to run two large appliances at the same time. The wiring to the house/apartment is still sized for at least 45 A (often times 63 A).
I talk about this with my helpers all the time. So much focus is put on how many amps is put on a circuit and making sure the circuit doesn't have too much draw to make it trip. I can say MAYBE once in my years in the field have I gone out to a service call or jobsite to discover a breaker was tripping because it had too much load on it. You REALLY have to go out of your way to put too much on a breaker. Obviously you could be an idiot and put a 2 pole 20 on an ac unit but even then, in a state like Florida, the MCA of air handlers are heavily weighted by the heating element which we basically never use down here 😂. I can't tell you how many times I've put an ammeter around a 200 amp panel in a fully operating commercial building and it was like MAYBE 40 amps lol
@@tomgrummett4591 well for the "ac" which is the term we use (including Dustin) to describe the condensing unit, yes a 2 pole 20 is very normal. But that would be crazy to do on an air handler if you plan on having any sort of heat functioning because a 4kw air handler is guaranteed to pull at least 20 under load
on a typical winter evening in the northeast my 200 amp panel shows around 10 amps per leg. OTOH, with everything running steady state (not in-rush) I show about 90 amps. I suspect the FLA of everything starting at once would top out around 150 amps or so. (AC, hot tub, well pump, fridges, air compressor, etc) The only time that might happen is after a power failure when everything restarts.
Actually, it's pretty easy to overload a circuit if it's not a hardwired / dedicated circuit. In your HVAC case, you install the breaker and wire sized to the label on the equipment, and it's the only thing on the circuit. Circuits with plugs... people pop those all the time.
@@jfbeam yeah people pop them all the time but rarely is it from exclusively from putting 20 amps on a breaker from standard use. Obviously if they are plugging in some crazy big thing then yeah that could be a problem.
We need more electricans people, who can troubleshoot, design, and apply the code. I was a dumb kid that did not like school or college until I was introduced to electricity, I could not believe people actually paid good money for me to know this. Ever since I started this journey I have never had a money problem. Tool belts rule.
400a 2 gang panels receive (2) 2s meters if both mains are rated 200 and less. 2 gang panels having 300a and 100a mains will get (1) 2se and (1) 2s meter. Depends how the setup is. The bus is rated for 400a and the service conductors will still be sized by the total load.
Yea, and the "neutral" in single phase service is supposed to be called the Grounded Conductor. 😉There's Code, and then there's the language everybody uses.
The fancy term that EEs use for this is “load diversification”… 😁. Great explanation! -Erik with Square-D
Thanks for watching my friend! Good to know ⚡️⚡️
Square-D, best in the business. 🤘
Ehh my boss is a fan of the square D line of products👍
@@tommypartin6431 i concur. That's why i replaced my panel with a square D one.
Yerrr SqD
Just wanted to say it lol
I'm paying 750$ a semester plus books to for a training program where my instructor reads off answers from the previous weeks assignments and dictates the current weeks assignments I study labs and lectures all on my own. And here I find this guy giving out exceptional descriptions of how electrical theory and application works. I'm just going to go over my assignment and refer to this UA-cam channel
As a Residential Electrician for 7+ years, all of your videos help me man. Thank you for what you do
You had me at 73 vacuum cleaners.
Hahahaha
Hilarious xD
LOL!
Broooo🤣the animation tho
Wait you mean I am not supposed to be running 73 vacuum cleaners at the same time?! 😉
Awesome explanation. I'm not an electrician, but I work in a "national home improvement store" in the electrical department and your videos have helped me so much to understand what my customers are talking about and asking for. I absolutely don't give electrical advice and always refer DIY'ers to an electrician when they obviously don't have a clue what they're talking about. I just had a customer a few days ago asking about the need to add up all his breakers. I told him I was sure that wasn't how it worked but that it was beyond my pay grade to know the procedure. Hoping he hasn't accidentally killed himself or burned his house down so far as it was very very clear he had no business taking on the project he was working on. It's amazing how many people come to me for free advice (which I don't give) on things. They see the dude in the store as a free alternative to spending money on an electrician and I tell them I can't do that for them. It doesn't help that stores like mine pretend that their workers are "experts" when we clearly are not.
That whole put a vest on a guy and he's an expert thing is a real problem! I am glad you recognize it as some don't.
I’m a Red Seal construction electrician in Nova Scotia Canada. Your channel is awesome to educate folks on our trade and how in depth it actually is. Most people think we just change light bulbs and put wires to point a to b.
I'm adding a sub-panel, and this made the Sect. 220 load calcs "come to life". Appreciate you doing this video!
You are so stinking helpful, i learn more through you than i ever did in the apprenticeship!
Not to take anything away from you, but after a year i found out my hours weren't being logged, so kinda tells you about my "apprenticeship"! Still, almost 20 years ago i was an electrician for about 4 years total. I have learned more through your videos than in that 4 years. Does anyone else have questions about converting old spaces? I am making an appartment in the back of an OLD commercial building. I need to break circuits up for GFCI kitchen, bath, etc. And add a few dedicated circuits. 200amp main feed 2 smaller sub panels. 1 feeds another appartment space, and 1 feeds a store front. ALL the wiring is so confusing. Pretty sure the last 70 years of remodels aren't helping. The labeling in the panels is for stuff that doesn't exist, but wiring still does...
Lighting changed a lot in 2020 code. Led eats way less of course... bra I just took my end of apprenticeship test and those load calc questions were just brutal. You never get the right answer. Thanks for all your work Dustin
absolutely stoked with the direction the electrician u channel is going!
I am just a home owner with a bit of knowledge trying to keep my home from fry it's self and gaining some knowledge when fixing or upgrading my home. Your channel and explanations are great... and yes i understand all the terms you use. Thats why i subscribed.
This makes the most sense out of all the videos I’ve watched today. Thank you so much
I’ve never been able to wrap my brain around even the most basic electrical concepts, but this channel has really helped remedy that. Thank you!
Great to hear!
Just pay an electrician and let him handle the headache.
My understanding of it (I'm a heavy truck mechanic) is that a fuse/breaker is sized to protect the wire depending on gauge. Even when in use you are rarely anywhere close to the amperage of the breaker for most applications under most applications.
You nailed it bro
Word
I have 100 amp service. I thought about upgrading to 150 as we have a lot of pets and heat lamps. I also have a hot tub and central air. For the heck of it I turned the hot tub on full during the summer while the central air was running as well as most all the rest of the stuff. I then clamped the mains to read the amperage draw. I got 16 amps on one and 13 on the other. So I felt a bit better knowing that.
Great video, love the way you explain things. I enjoy hearing other electricians explain their understanding of why things are done the way they are, as it might give me a different perspective, or I may even learn something new. I'm from Canada, and we do things a little differently, but probably end up with pretty much the same end result for the demand load to calculate the main breaker for the service.
However, we are only allowed to derate the service entrance conductors by 5%, and this usually ends up with the wire having a capacity that is equal to or just over the size of the main breaker. The reason why is that the breaker is there to protect the wire, so even though currently there is not enough demand in the system to overload the conductors, at some point in the future, things may be added which would not require the main breaker to be upsized.
As most main breakers are rated continuous duty, this could potentially be too much load for the conductors if they are only able to handle 83% of the main breaker (I've seen plenty of 200A services where the demand calculation is definitely over 166A).
As a homeowner I installed my own 400 amp service with two 200 amp panels. One for the house one for my garage/well house. LOL 😅 a little overboard
I did the same. I have two car chargers in the garage and nearly 5000 sq ft of living space plus a 900 sq ft garage. 400 Amps was the right answer.
Very good explanation as a longtime master electrician myself i usually just use the term demand factors to simplify the explanation to people because i don't want to unnecessarily spend 20 minutes explaining this to people.
Sometimes we get repair calls from home inspections. One time a home owner selling his house called me because inspector called him out on “double tapped” breakers. Inspector recommended that qualified electrician install a sub panel. I recommended a couple of “piggyback” breakers to remedy the problem. A lot cheaper, and all were lighting circuits anyway. Fast forward a few weeks, new owner takes possession of the home. She got my number somehow and DEMANDED that I come out there and install a sub panel free of charge because I didn’t do what I was supposed to do, and that she had a master electrician standing there with her and that he added up all the breakers and the service was highly overloaded. I said “he’s either not much of an electrician or he’s trying to rip you off.” She hung up and I never heard from her again.😂😂😂
A the olde I got the master electrician here, one that cannot speak for himself, how convenient,
Being a E&E Engineer +a Sparky, we all know, you cannot Know or remember it all,
That being said, it's obvious that people try to get one over on you,
S. T. E. M is not like the arts or law (statute or common) that you can argue the point, most people that are not in the above, believe word can be used to doodle you,
I am usually patient and ask for the person to be put on the phone, then get a gauge of the person,
North America is really nice to work & live, as a brit,
In the last house I bought all branch circuits were tandem breakers. And the idiot who wired the panel ran red-black-red-black all the way down on the tandem breakers. Great way to have overheated neutrals. I rewired the tandem breakers red-red-black-black. Classic case of doing work by rote and not understanding how it works. It's these-fly by-night tech schools that are responsible for this incompetent work.
@@andydelle4509 Wow! What an idiot! That could’ve created a BIG problem. All tandem breakers too? We don’t put those things in unless absolutely necessary. Good thing you found and fixed it, a lot of inspectors wouldn’t know to write that up.
@@CA-lk6fd Well it's even worse. Lots of can fixtures and no Romex clamps used! And no, these cans did not have the built in clamps either. Just run the cable into the hole! House was built in 1991.
@@andydelle4509 it simply amazes me how people don’t do things the proper way. I’ve been doing electrical work for 24 years now, residential and commercial. The first guy I ever worked for always told us, “do it right, or walk away from it.” I was a young little punk kid back then, but I look back now and appreciate him being hard on me. I have always strived to do things according to code and beyond. It makes me feel good when an inspector tells me “that looks great, you guys do great work.” That’s the only way I know how to do it. If I don’t know, I’ll find out. I pride myself in being the best I can be because what we (electricians) do is important.
I’m glad you have a calc vid coming up. It will help with my studying for the master exam
Very informative video, great job dealing with a confusing subject. Keep up the great work . People, please remember that no matter how much you learn from these videos, there’s no substitute for a SKILLED trades person. 👍
I did work at a really nice house in a rich part of town and it had two parallel runs of 200 amps at his service. The lugs on the line and load side of the meter were double lugs and it split off to two 200 amp main breaker panels in the garage. Was pretty interesting to see at a house
Here in eastern washington that's pretty normal
@@Californians_go_home well in Florida where I've seen thousands of houses it most definitely is lol
I honestly wonder if you'll ever use 200 amps at the shed a 30 amp sub would have been suffiecent
same at my house. 400A service is really 320 and its a meter socket with dual outpout lugs each going to a 200A panel. SOP
I just saw the video on 1phase v 3 phase wow no no no there is nopush pullin. Generators have a rotating fields of n and south poles .depnding on speed 1800 rpm u would have 4 poles connected in series to a dc exciter on back end . u have to make dc b 4 u can generate ac .the rotating magnetic fields r. Controlled by v regulator . that moves .the stator. Or stationary part of gen set is made up of individual coils of wire that r spaced 120° apart on 360 rotation .there r 6 coils .wen u series connect u get nominal network 480/277 .wen connested in parelle u get 208\120 v 3phase 3 wire u tap t4 t5 t6 for 4 th wire for 120 neutral .once the gen is running the rotating dc magnetic field is inducing voltage in statsionary windings there is no current flow outward untill a load is applied to l1 l2 l3 .the 4th wire is bonded to gen frame and u derive your egc from that and is. Not conn to neut any where else in system and shoukd have no current flow and no v potensial on conductor and runs w crckt condutors . your loops r short crkt unless u put resistance in .no push pull no xtra amps comin back to asist next phase .fig i c if this helps. Thanks 4 reading single phase transformer. In res areas r fed w 7200 v off 3 phase network of 13.800 v plus grounded conductor
You almost scared me off with your "800A" sum at the beginning, but I'm glad I stayed. I've always done minor work myself. I asked an "electrician" about this question a while ago and he obviously gave me the wrong answer. Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Love this stuff. In 1986 I went to the library for 3 months to learn electric AND gas....I totally rewired my house is Da Yookay. The inspector had a 32 point checklist and my work passed 31..The other was a 20 second job to fix. Now I live in Wisconsin and its all different..but the same if you know what I mean... Love learning new concepts like this....
I want to increase my professionalism as a electrician. Thanks for the help. I'm ordering my sock hat now
Excellent info without "OVERLOADING" people's brains with technical data!
Glad you liked it!
4:10 I have 400 amp service, and the meter base/socket looks the same to me as a 200 amp service. Essentially, I have 400 Amps at the meter, split into two 200 amp outside breakers/disconnects. They run to a 200 amp panel in my house and a separate 200 amp panel in my garage/upstairs apartment.
That then makes my house and garage 200 amp panels actually sub-panels, the neutrals and grounds are required to be separated back to the outside disconnects and they are then bonded there.
The reason for this is I have two electric vehicle chargers in the garage, plus a 4 ton HVAC system, washer/dryer, oven etc. in the garage apartment.
I'm glad to see a video touching load calcs. As soon as I saw the title I knew where we were going.
For a home even 200 amps is a bit much. However in some industries even 400 amps might not be enough. I work in a pretty small theater and we have a 3 phase 400 amp service, at one time we were running a lighting dimmer rack that would deliver 72kW to 96 750 watt lights, so it needs quite a bit of power, that was run on a huge 240 volt 400 amp safety switch that was fed directly from the transformer outside the building that is a 300KVA transformer. And we also have one main 3 phase panel and 3 sub panels that run everything else in the building and that is also a 400 amp service. What most people don’t realize that as you go through the system you are underrating your services, we start with 300KVA transformer that can do 600 amps, then we send that to the dimmer rack and the main service panel and both of those are rated at 400 amps, then we send feeders from the main panel to a 200 amp sub panel, and then we send feeders from that to 2 100 amp sub panels. But the other thing there is that it’s the same thing as a house we aren’t constantly using all of the power. When we are doing a show we run the dimmer rack at almost it’s max load, so about 350 amps, and then we have the power for the rest of the equipment which is probably about 40 amps, so we still aren’t using the full service rating and we probably never will.
I just stumbled across your page. I’m a big proponent of “common sense” explanations & you do a GREAT job.
Even better, you don’t just reflexively fall back on BCSS (because code says so). WE collectively wrote NFPA 70 et al & it’s based on applied common sense of experienced people. Which is informed by modeling, analysis, and *failures.*
Teaching *why* we do what we do in clear, accessible language is a great service to pros here for education as well as the public. Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much, that means a lot!
As an EE for 42 yes, there's a big difference between residential & commercial NFPA (NEC) codes for calculating loads on service entrance conductors and load centers vs panel boards main breakers. Great explanation but most won't understand. A little bit of knowledge (Architects) is dangerous.
This is a good breakdown. I had to learn this 2 years ago when I decided to finish off an unfinished basement that had no electricity to it, and building code required I split the service at the Meter, which required me to upgrade to 400 AMP service. I have no hesitation for upgrading service as it allowed me to install a home EV charger.
Jesus Christ! How many square foot is your home?
@@robbybiddle9236 It was 3480 sq feet. I added 1480 feet in the basement.
@m rapacki
The original breaker were set up as follows:
4x15 amp breakers for lights (Bedrooms, hall & loft area, Living room/ dining room and kitchen/ library.
6x20 amp breakers - non GFI outlets (local code stipulated no more than 10 outlets per breaker, and outlets be spaced no more than 12' apart). They are broken out as such - Garage, Master Bedroom, Bedrooms (2, 3 &4), Loft & hallway, dining & library, guest bedroom and living room
3x20 amp breakers - GFI - Kitchen outlet, upstairs bathrooms, downstairs bathrooms
4x20 amp breakers for dedicated items (microwave, refrigerator, and dishwasher/ disposal, Wash machine)
1x40 amp breaker for hot water heater
1x50 amp breaker for kitchen stove
1x30 amp breaker for dryer
1x60 amp breaker for AC unit
1x15 amp breaker for outside lights
1x20 amp breaker for outside outlets (4x).
My utilization score was 149 Amps for a 200 amp service, and would be limited to a maximum score of 160. In order to get permitted, I would have been able to add 3x 20 amp breakers for outlets (each score at 3 amps), and one 15 amp switch for lights (scored at 2 points) before I would have maxed out.
When I got the basement permitted, I was told if I ever planned on adding an AC unit or heater, I'd have to increase my service load. I had planned to add a heat pump than runs on a 30 amp breaker, which would automatically put me over, and they would not permit the project until service was upgraded.
I did get called out on the code for can lights because although I used high efficiency LED's, they have to run the calculation as if you are using incandescent filament bulbs, and I was required to cut the total # of lights on a circuit between 2x15 amp circuits. Even though a 15 amp circuit can handle 1800 watts, code limits it to 1440 watts, and with each can light rated at 100 watt bulbs, I could only 14 can lights per circuit. As stupid as it is, the pool room (18'x26') has 15 can lights and 2 fans with lights. I had to take 1 can light off the circuit, and dedicate a circuit to the fans, fan lights and a single can light.
The basement has its own 100 amp service (way overkill), but I took the 400 amp service and split it at the meter for 200 amps to the main part of the house, 100 amps to the basement and 100 amp dedicated to the garage. This allows me to add a 80 Amp EV charger whenever I want without needing a permit, or change to service.
Since I had plenty of power to the basement, it is broken down as such:
30 amp circuit - heat pump (25 points)
20 amp circuit - dedicated for FRIDGE and SEWER PUMP (12 points each - 24 combined)
20 amp circuit (x5 kitchen GFCI, Bathroom GFCI, and 3 circuits for outlets. (3 points a piece, 15 points total)
3x 15 amp light circuits (2 points a piece, 6 total)
The utilization score for the basement is 70 out of a possible 80 per local code (80% score of breaker box capacity, which was 100 Amps). I also removed 3 points from the upstairs utilization score (down to 146) by removing a 20 amp circuit that fed 3 lights and 1 outlet in the basement.
@@Xander-dx6mw Can u post any good resources for performing a load calculation? You must have done one.
@@Xander-dx6mw we upgraded to 400A from 225A. 6000sqft divided into 6 apts. 6 of each appliances and 2 AC units. 300A meter bases and panels aren’t easy to get so we went 400A.
I greatly appreciate the knowledge and experience you share with all of us seeking it. Also. Explained so well. Thank you, Sir.
Most EC’s would call this “load calculations.”
Great video Dustin!
Load schedule as well
Currently studying for my test in ATX, thanks for these videos!
I'm an apprentice and just want to thank you for these videos.
Glad you like them! Thanks for watching my friend
My dad was a construction electrician. I did a few summer jobs with him before joining the Navy, where I was an AE. In the 1980s my brother (journeyman electrician) was working with a Fluor Corporation electrical engineer going into 1940s-70s skyscrapers and testing the feeders to design upgrades, due to all the modern office equipment. In the 1990s I worked as an electrical assembler in manufacturing and we sized conductors by what fit the component. I prefer an up-sized conductor over a minimum-size conductor. Sure you want that winning low bid that lands the job, but sell the customer on future loading resulting increased costs of material and labor to upgrade. Also, what if a solar/wind system was to back feed onto the grid?
I was an AE ,62E AIMD Nas Oceana 96-99
Just passed my WA state administrator exam so this is awesome to hear you talk about
Congrats!
That's an achievement. Insleeee hates electricians. I still haven't been able to get an apprenticeship.
I have an electrical question I had an electrical question that's why I came to your site. My best friend Big Mike always had tbe correct answer to aNY and all computer and electrical questions .Pure genius. So since he passed a few years back I've had no mentor I could reach out to. You may hv become my go-to from here on out. So, learn me some electrical skills please. Thanks for the lesson....Rob Price
When doing the standard calculation, I'm wondering how the change from incandescent to led lighting has affected that part of your formula? Going from 60 watt bulbs to 9 watts is a big difference. And have the newer appliances reduced their total load in a noticeable way, compared to something made in the 60's? Do houses now need the same size of service that we used to, not that long ago?
Apprentice here not a journeyman yet so take my word with a bit of salt. The formula doesn't change for led lighting it just means that we will have a smaller load on the service and can size accordingly. Whether appliances pull more than they used to varies greatly. Yes our microwaves may be more efficient than they used to but many manufacturers take that opportunity to increase the power of the microwave. But on the whole the size of the average service is most definitely increasing not decreasing. More and more and more modern appliances are electrically powered vs other sources. Electric stove tops heaters and dryers instead of gas ones for example. On demand tankless electric hot water heaters instead of gas tanked water heaters. More and more computers and televisions and phones and laptops being charged. The most recent huge bump is electric vehicle charging. Some appliances may be more efficient than their counterparts from the 60s but the number of appliances in the average home has increased dramatically.
There's several things to consider here. The power we use now is likely quite a bit lower for many things (lighting) but we seem to use that over longer periods of time when you throw in all of the appliances that draw all day long. Walk around your home and count up all those little wall chargers, cable boxes, tv sets, DVD players, telephones, answering machines, night lights, clock radios, garage openers, fridges, freezers, etc. If they were all "off" it would still add up to more than you think because they have electronic controls. (you should see my power bill) Next add in the fact that we have many more things we didn't have 50 years ago.... car chargers, central AC, clothes drier, and electric water heaters are all common now. Throw in the ever changing electrical code with more margin for safety, and the size of the service has increased. In some cases the service size is almost dictated by the number of breakers required due to bathrooms, kitchens, and garages, needing home runs these days. Basically you are stuck installing a 200 amp panel for a home that may never see more than a 60 amp draw because code calls for more than 20 breakers. The cost difference is only a few hundred bucks between 100 and 200 amp service.
One of the biggest new loads is Air conditioning. When I was a kid in Seattle air-conditioning was unheard of. Now we are way over 50% of homes having air-conditioning in Seattle.
I think the air-conditioning load is still growing faster than electric car charging is.
For residential calculations a formula with square footage is made.
@@ecospider5 ... here in the northeast we get humidity so I'd guess that 99% of new construction has central AC. I can't think of a home here that doesn't have either window units or central AC. It's all about comfort and convenience... even on an older place where the 60 amp fuse panel might be smoking, or close to it.
Great timing for my MIDTERM!!! This is a great video
I took care of a large rooming house for 11 years. It was an old knob and tube house which had the wiring upgraded. It had wiring from the 40's & the 60's as well as some original knob and tube. The main breaker box had at least 30 breakers & the pony box had another 12 breakers. The main breaker was only 70amps. I asked the utility company if I could use a larger breaker & they said "No, you only have a 70amp service". I'm surprised it never tripped a main breaker.
I work for multiple apartment complexes in Austin/Cedar Park & I get calls for no elec everyday, mom is cooking and cleaning, dad and son are both on computers, daughter is getting ready in bathroom. Air conditioner blasting. Same people everyday same problem, way too many items used at same time. Explained to them everytime, some people are just stupid I guess. Nope it's just me. Thnx, keep the vids coming!
You explained this in a very logical manner. My main breaker for the outside electric line is only 200 amp, and that's from the electric company. My main breaker inside my home is the same, be no reason to go higher. Like you said not everything is gonna be running at the same time anyways. My biggest power usage is my electric furnace, and it's only on 60 amp breakers and that's the recommended rating for the furnace. Heck today's appliances are actually pretty efficient, and mostly don't even max out the breaker amp rating. You could add up all the amps the breakers support, then add up the actual use and there would be a fairly good difference.
Yikes !!! A 60 amp electric furnace? Even if it is on a 60 amp breaker and only really draws about 48 amps.... That's a perfect candidate for a change out with a Heat Pump. Unless you are in a very cold climate.... You can save up to 75% in kWh. Don't get me wrong... We should all use way more electricity powered by Nuclear Reactors everywhere... But that's a can of worms. I have never heard the term Electric Furnace, not that I can remember.
These days, with wireless meters that can plot usage on an hourly basis, I'm surprised they don't use that data when planning a renovation. Plotting actual usage has to be more accurate than guesses based on floor surface area, etc. Of course you have to allow for peak usage when everything happens to occur on at the same time, but that's another story.
That only works if you have such a system -- few people have them. And it all rests on the ability to determine what the loads are. My house usage is a nearly constant 1kW. So constant, in fact, the power company cannot begin to guess what the loads are. (they claim 60% of my power is "Water Heater"... they know for a fact this house has _never_ had electric water heat.) I know what's what, because I can hang a meter on each circuit.
Prime example of using the electric meter for planning is industrial settings where a demand meter can supply data on actual use at peak times. After working at a generator company for near 25 years we've used a utility bill to determine the proper sizing of a gen set. In this case it was a double check after the usual calculations. The reason being is a gen set is seldom required to power the whole building at max service capacity and it can save thousands on an installation.
"In the old days" a paper wheel graph would be used to determine use and time to plan/plot appliance use and energy savings, goes to pot when things are done outside the parameters set aside.
You can collect all the data you want , but usage can vary on weather or whim.
Then when a new person moves into the house and has different uses for the house you're fucked. Square footage is the way to go I think.
I think the number one factor that's going to change the amount of power being used in a house is the amount of people living in the house. A house with a family and 3 kids is going to consume way more power than a house with only one grandma living in it.
So weird that this would come across my feed today. Friday I was at a customer's home working on a range and went to shut off the breaker to the appliance. I was staring at the breaker box wondering how they come up with 200A service when all the numbers of breakers dont add up. Thanks for the explanation!
When I first moved to Austin I was on a job where I was landing the wires on the breakers black/red/blue(like everywhere in the US) A guy I was working with saw what I was doing and freaked out on me, yelling “what are you doing?” Puzzled I replied “landing the wires on the breakers” He responded “why are you doing black/red/blue? It’s red/black/blue!!!” I told him that everywhere else in country does it blk/red/blu. His response was priceless, “everywhere does it wrong”
I just found this channel, and man after less than a minute I'm already glad I did. I'm an electrical engineering hobbyist, so I'm always watching all sorts of channels about EE and maker stuff and that, which is all well and good. It's fun, but not practical. Except maybe Big Clive. But channels like this which cover actual... I'm not sure what the word is but stuff which applies to home and commercial electrical set ups. Like junction boxes, breakers, and all of that fun stuff I'd be learning in a trade school in an ideal world. I guess this is just my clumsy way of saying you've earned yourself a new sub. And I'm looking forward to the video watching binge I'm about to go on on your channel. Cheers, buddy!
Thanks for watching!
I have 600A service, but I also have 3 225A boxes. I don’t think I’ll ever use all of it, but it is really nice for running lots of servers!
I should send you a pic of my setup. I’m close to you. If you ever want to make a video of a crazy home setup let me know.
That's why you should do a load cal sheet to determine the size of panel...that's what I was taught back in the 70's, And that's what I still do! In general, 200 amp service is plenty for any average house, and if you think you need more, the power company will question it and send out someone to determine if you actually need more than 200 amps.
Good job! my bro keep them coming.
I thought this was helpful for a short video! Thanks man 🤙🏻 love from Florida
When you talk about the "black phase" and the "red phase" in a single family (or townhouse, small business, etc.), and please correct me if I am wrong, the "red" and "black" are the "hot" leads from a "split" single phase 240vac service. Not until you get into a building that has equipment (such as multiple elevators) that requires a heavier duty service does the "multi-phase - typically three phase 208 vac" service concept come into play.
Good explanation. At the farmhouse I lived in as a teen, (still go to visit one a year usually) they have a 120/208 v 3ph 600 amp service, but we have a grain dryer that had a 20 hp motor, and he had some large augers that had 3 ph motors, 5 horsepower, also we have a large pole barn that has welders, air compressors, etc, and a spot to plug in engine block heaters for the diesel equipment. There is a 150 amp 1ph panel in the house, a 250 amp 1 ph panel in the pole barn, and we have 200 amp 3 ph service running towards the area where the grain dryers and augers are located. Definitely overkill in my opinion.
This dude talks so good that i lost track of tf he was talking about (not an electrical worker) but... i love these videos..
I learn so much from your channel. Thank you.
Great explanation. Also something that is absolutely nuts is I’ve now put up 2 800 Amp services on houses in Wyoming!! Mostly because they can only use electric heat where I’m at. It’s quite an experience, they have 500 KC mill going to them.
Why not? I realize that natural gas may not be available in a rural area, but couldn't they get propane or home heating oil? It seems to me that it would be a whole lot cheaper than electric heating in a very cold climate.
Thanks bro! Your channel is really helping me touch up on a lots of stuff I may have forgotten. Wish I was fluent in load calculations an voltage drops.... most of what I know is hands on an not academic. You should do a vid on the "Quick Bend" Application.
This video was extremely helpful. Thank you
What about for 480 or 208 panels in industrial and commercial buildings that are running continuous loads when the whole line is up and running?
Awesome looking forward to seeing a video of the detailed service calculation !
Super interesting. I've wired 200 amp boxes on past. Recently built large shop and had my first 400 amp service put in (I still have to wire it in to 2 200 amp boxes. I wanted more spaces as I have to run several 240 volt item's (truck lift, welder hookups, hot water heater and air compressor hookups, all 240 v) as well as plugs, lights and long runs to outlying barn and backyard ( for hot tub, lights, etc.). I'd rather have more breaker spaces to expand in the future.
is that going to be a true 400-amp service or a pair of 200s? (we call that a 320-amp service here) The main difference between the two is in a residential setting they will allow smaller feed wires because it's mostly for all the home runs and breaker space, rather than full loads.
I believe it's actually 320. Elec company says I can use 4/0 4/0 2/0 SE wire, aluminum and I intend to run 2 separate lines from box to my 2 200 amp boxes, underground, in electrical pvc
@@kennethcallahan7410 ... that feeder combo says it all. 4/0 Al is rated for about 175 amps and the 2/0 neutral says they are allowing for a large 240 volt load and an undersized neutral is ok. Are they really allowing SE cable in a buried conduit or do you mean individual conductors in Al with a W/2 rating?
@@rupe53 I'm doing Indiv conductors from service pole in conduit to the two boxes, or that's the plan. I have to go 130 ft from pole to the boxes which will be inside shop and wanted underground vs overhead. Am putting in conduit to protect wire due to soil here which is clay and very rocky and the rocks move around a lot
@@kennethcallahan7410 Ok, good deal. You mentioned SE wire which I took to mean Service Entrance cable, which is the grey jacketed stuff you see going down the outside of a home. It's not allowed to go any distance in conduit other than a short run for protection. Do yourself a favor and go larger than you need on the conduit. Also use sweep elbows. It can be a bear to pull that distance. If you have the option, you can lay the wire out and walk each piece of conduit into place. That can be a real back saver if there is more that 2 elbows on the run.
Glad I found this. Definitely going to join!
Clear and concise. Thanks for posting!
Glad it was helpful!
Always the best explanations. Thank you
Hi, I had a quick question. Thank you for your time in answering. I just wanted to know if all 225Amp main service panel (solar ready) were the same size as far as Height x Width? The contractor my parent's hired to install solar, upgraded their 100A panel to 225A for solar and the HOA they live at are making a big deal about the MPS not being the same size as the neighbor, which is next to their panel. Any advise or help would be appreciated.
Did you ever do the follow-up videos you talked about where you walk through doing the actual Standard/Optional Method calculations? I could use that info..
Great video! So helpful in understanding the panel. Thanks!
we once designed an addition for a house that was already a fairly large house with an indoor pool (where the humidity and temperature of the pool room was controlled in addition to the houses AC system) and the owner had a Model X Tesla so we had to provide for a Charger in the existing garage and a Charger in the additions Garage, one of the issues we came across was the house was already pretty much maxed out on a 400 Amp service and they couldn't expand because the power company simply didn't have any more capacity on the wires supplying the street the house was on. I know we ended up installing a massive Generac generator, I think that was the final decision on how to overcome the 400 Amp service limitation
So is 72 vacuums ok?😁
Another great explanation
Always amazes me that in the UK we still have a lot of properties with 60amp services!! All though the average is 100amp.
On some “new builds” they are now installing 3 phase 100amp supplies to allow for heat pumps, solar PV, EV charge points etc.
Don't you use 240V circuits though? So your 60 amp service is like a 120 here, and 100 like 200.
In Philadelphia's older rowhouse neighborhoods, many row units built in the 1930s have 60 amp service. I managed to trip the main breaker one day with a lot on (laundry, TV etc).
Do you mean amp or volt?
@@bigkirbyhj666 Oh, it's amps. The main breaker had "60" printed on its handle. Even in the 1980s that was deemed obsolete, most homeowners had already upgraded to 100.
Electric cars are changing things a lot. My EV runs 11.5 KW(240V @ 48 amps) continuous and my wife’s EV runs at 3.6 KW(240V @ ~16 amps) for 6 hours a day.
Code book has a good example on doing load calculations.
Enjoy the channel. Wished I'd found it when I was in school, lol.
I've got 2 200 amp services running off a 400 amp meter, I consolidated 2 meters into 1 because my Public Utility Chelan County PUD charges a meter fee and when I consolidated it was $7 dollars per meter, that was 22 years ago. With that being said I've saved a substantial amount of money doing that one upgrade seeings how the home was built in 1957. Just figuring on 7 dollars a month over 22 years saved me $1848 which is about the actual cost of all the stuff I did 22 years ago. I am sure the per meter cost has gone up over the past 22 years as everything has which would make those savings even more. The driving factor was to clean up my air space over my property as I took all the utilities and went underground so I wouldn't have wires running all across my property and I was able to relocate the meter head off the back of my home to the alley side of my shop. Not only did this give me a cleaner skyline it made my property safer for moving ladders and bringing dump trucks in without the worry of the utility lines along with making reading my meter easier as my property is completely fenced.
Man he’s a talker. Thanks for posting this.
Well I can talk on this subject by my own experience. I live in a 67 year old house that had a 100amp Zinco breaker box that had to go. Well I discovered what they call 320 amp service continuous 400amp at 4 hours. After contacting the electrical company to see if the transformer and it’s capacity if I could go to a 320 continuous service, well they said no problem the transformer was at 45% capacity load for all the houses that it serviced. So I installed a 320 continuous service with a 200amp box in the basement to replace the Zinco box and another 200amp box out in the garage off one main meter base that was designed to handle 2 sub boxes. The reason they call it a 320 continuous 400amp for 4 hours is if you go to a 400amp service all the time you need engineering blueprints for your installation plus probably some extra equipment. Also while doing this installation I installed a generator cutout switch. On a Tim Allen home improvement scale of 1 to 10 , this job was a 15. I did this conversion in 2004 and I figured I spent 7,000.00 dollars on supplies and a crane truck to lower in the mast head and I did all the work myself. The city electrical inspector was impressed and said he had warehouses in his jurisdiction that didn’t have this much power and service capability in them. I figured if I paid a company to do what I did the job would of cost 15,000.00 dollars. Also I had to relocate electrical circuits and compressor air lines that where in the way, but in the end it was well worth it.
Not all the lights are on in the entire house every hour of the day? You haven't met my kids. Good video, thanks for all the great info!
I like how you limit your video's length
Its good not to cram too much info into one video
Thank you, it’s been a long time coming. I used to make videos that were 45 min long lol - so unnecessary, but hell they have over a million views so I guess there’s something people liked about them. More to the point these days though 👌
It would be even better if the video allowed speed control. I usually listen at 1.5x or 1.75x speeds. It's data to my ears not a conversation. For Slow talkers I go with 2.0x.
Dude! Good to see you again!
Thank you for the great explanation!! I’ll be sure and checkout more of your videos.
Wow. Thank you very much. Wonderful presentation. Something I wasn’t aware of and it makes great sense.
Great video !!! I am not an electrician at all but learn a lot from your videos. Could you do a video on what inspectors are looking for when you DIY your own sub panel ? I am guessing the inspector I am dealing with does not want to pass my sub panel in the shed due to i am not license electrician and giving me a hard time. asking for " load calculation"
That was easy. Not all of the 15A or 20A breakers are running at full capacity at the same time. If they did, you would have a killer electric bill!
I normally run 73 vacuum cleaners at once. lol
Except for heating in winter, the continuous loads typically are refrigerator/freezer, water pump [intermittent] cable boxes and internet boxes, washer & dryer loads are not always on.
@@kylestan2250 Cable boxes, modems, etc use very little power, typically 2 watts or less. Most TVs are LCD or LED flat screen that use much lower wattage than the old CRT tube TVs. Back in the day, 50s 60s 70s most homes had waffle irons, toasters, grills, that used huge amounts of power like 1500w or 2000w. But, electricity was very cheap, 2 cents per Kilowatt hour, and we were very low-tech. Nobody had laptops and cell phones which use very little power. Everybody used incandescent bulbs for light, and some heat in the winter.
@@kylestan2250 freezers only have a big load at startup and everytime it begins a cyle again
Good clear explanation! We all need a bit of knowledge on our house wiring and code
It's simple. That's the most power that is available. More breakers, mean more areas can have a separate breaker. You just can't exceed the household amp limit. You can run, different things, in different parts of the house, as long as the total amps don't exceed the household limit.
Very timely, always wonder how this is factored. Thanks!
I lived in and grew up in Austin. As an Electrician. They go crazy with their codes.
Cool tips i enoyed it look foward for the next one
One grid-tie solar system, electric water heater, 240VAC table saw, and L2 EV charger later., and I'm really happy the original builder of my home didn't skimp and had decided on a 200A service. The original house only had the A/C system and electric oven as big-ticket items. I still have fairly comfortable margins though one of the sub-panels is closing in on 75A going full-out and probably shouldn't have anything more added to it.
-Matt
I've always loved this question from customers....
It means if you load up every circuit in your house, expect to blow the main breaker. Not gonna happen you say? I am seeing it happen a lot with people charging their cars.
Would love to see your method of load calculations
I wired a house once that had a 400 amp service, (back in the 70's) The house had two of everything in the kitchen, 2-ovens two sub-zero fridges, (a person could live in one of those), heated driveway, pool/house. BIG HOUSE!!!. Most of our large houses built back then had a 300 amp service but we did a few really large houses. I wired the condo of the daughter-in law of Charles Kettering, (the guy that invented the electric starter for automobiles) her condo had 5 furnaces, she had 5 people that worked in her house, butler/cook so on, her condo had an Elevator (it was only a 3 story building) .While working in her condo while it was under construction she caught me one day I was drinking a Pepsi in her elevator and chewed me out ) : but she was still a very nice lady (:
That’s a cool story! Should’ve been a Dr. Pepper though..
I was at a project for a small historical building. The engineer called for a 600 Amp service. The contractor said, this is a two story building not a skyscraper. I don't get it. It might explain why the project budget was over 3 million. And none of it works.
Calculated load is a helluva drug.
In some European countries, distribution fees depend upon the size of the main breaker, and it is not uncommon for homeowners to arbitrarily 'downsize' the service supply to 15 A or 25 A to save a few euros, and live with not being able to run two large appliances at the same time. The wiring to the house/apartment is still sized for at least 45 A (often times 63 A).
Extremely interesting video, covered all my questions except for one. Why are you wearing a winter beanie indoors?
I talk about this with my helpers all the time. So much focus is put on how many amps is put on a circuit and making sure the circuit doesn't have too much draw to make it trip. I can say MAYBE once in my years in the field have I gone out to a service call or jobsite to discover a breaker was tripping because it had too much load on it. You REALLY have to go out of your way to put too much on a breaker. Obviously you could be an idiot and put a 2 pole 20 on an ac unit but even then, in a state like Florida, the MCA of air handlers are heavily weighted by the heating element which we basically never use down here 😂. I can't tell you how many times I've put an ammeter around a 200 amp panel in a fully operating commercial building and it was like MAYBE 40 amps lol
Where I live it is very common for the proper breaker of an ac unit to be a 2p 20
@@tomgrummett4591 well for the "ac" which is the term we use (including Dustin) to describe the condensing unit, yes a 2 pole 20 is very normal. But that would be crazy to do on an air handler if you plan on having any sort of heat functioning because a 4kw air handler is guaranteed to pull at least 20 under load
on a typical winter evening in the northeast my 200 amp panel shows around 10 amps per leg. OTOH, with everything running steady state (not in-rush) I show about 90 amps. I suspect the FLA of everything starting at once would top out around 150 amps or so. (AC, hot tub, well pump, fridges, air compressor, etc) The only time that might happen is after a power failure when everything restarts.
Actually, it's pretty easy to overload a circuit if it's not a hardwired / dedicated circuit. In your HVAC case, you install the breaker and wire sized to the label on the equipment, and it's the only thing on the circuit. Circuits with plugs... people pop those all the time.
@@jfbeam yeah people pop them all the time but rarely is it from exclusively from putting 20 amps on a breaker from standard use. Obviously if they are plugging in some crazy big thing then yeah that could be a problem.
We need more electricans people, who can troubleshoot, design, and apply the code.
I was a dumb kid that did not like school or college until I was introduced to electricity, I could not believe people actually paid good money for me to know this. Ever since I started this journey I have never had a money problem.
Tool belts rule.
I'm willing to bet you were'nt a dumb kid but school/ life just makes ppl feel that way
From the utility standpoint, 400A whether 1 400A or 2 200A panels gets a 320A meter. (400x80%). Over 400A gets CT's.
Thanks for speaking up. Everybody needs to know this
400a 2 gang panels receive (2) 2s meters if both mains are rated 200 and less. 2 gang panels having 300a and 100a mains will get (1) 2se and (1) 2s meter. Depends how the setup is. The bus is rated for 400a and the service conductors will still be sized by the total load.
Keep in mind bro residential there is only one phase it's better to call it A Leg and B Leg of the same Delta phase. Houses don't have 2 phase LOL
Yea, and the "neutral" in single phase service is supposed to be called the Grounded Conductor. 😉There's Code, and then there's the language everybody uses.