I Tried The Muse Headband With The NeoRhythm Stimulator and the Results are Scary
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2020
- In this video, Dr. Cody combines the Muse Headband EEG system with the NeoRhythm rTMS
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Cody Rall, M.D., is a United States Navy trained Psychiatrist who specializes in neurotechnology wearables. He is a co-founder of Stanford Brainstorm, the world’s first academic laboratory dedicated to transforming brain health through entrepreneurship.
Dr. Rall also served as a board member of the psychiatry innovation lab, an annual national competition at the American Psychiatric Association that works as an incubator for groups developing technological solutions to problems in mental health care. He is the founder of Techforpsych, a media and relations company that covers advancements in technology related to neuroscience.
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RentMD for Muse Rentals: www.rentmd.co?sca_ref=5391739.1NgfaktnMK
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I like. I'm also trying to combine multiple modalities looking for synergies. (Like multiple PEMF, taVNS, Sensate device, electroacupuncture, yoga breathing.) In system analysis/engineering terms, it's called MIMO - Multiple Input, Multiple Output. My focus is MISO - Multiple Input, Single Output. For example, combine multiple modalities targeting high blood pressure, or depression.
Keep up the great work. Education for the masses!
Excellent feedback! Thank you! Your videos have tipped the scale for me and I'm purchasing the NeoRhythm & the Muse S!
Great help Dr. Appreciate all the insight, just got the Neorhythm, Limina mind machine, and muse-s, so I’m excited to start my trials
Thank you Doc. Your review is very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
I testet the neorythm few months ago and returned it because I was not sure if it worked. I had exactly the same idea to test it with a muse... But I could not afford both. So thanks for this test!
Thanks so much. Been using the Neorhythm for a couple weeks now and my muse should be arriving soon.
Exciting Sue!
Did you find the Neorhythm useful?
Great video!❤🙏🏿🧠
Afternoon Coffee or NeoRhythm? Sounds like you need to test if caffeine modifies the brainwaves in the same way as Neo ☕️
I wondered if this was possible . Thanks for doing this
Glad you liked it Arun
@@CodyRallMD I’m also considering testing audio. Ie using brain.fm to see if that does more too.
Wow that is so great. Do you know if neorythm can be used to help with adhd? Which frequency would be needed then?
Gamma is the next frontier for brainwave entrainment and neurofeedback. (Neurofeedback currently incorporates gamma up to 40hz, but it is beyond 40hz where things get interesting. As the gamma frequency extends further towards 100hz and beyond, experimental subjects of the Vielight helmet note access to states of no-thought and transpersonal states.
Vielight Gamma isnt set higher than 40hz
@@iOwnzNubz1 True that
So Cool cool epic and awesome!!! Thank you sooooo much for the video!! ✨🧘♀️✨
Glad you liked it!!
Awesome!!
Thanks for posting this. I too wondered about the combination of those two.
Thanks Rob, Hope it was helpful!
What can you recomend - my friend (45 years old) just had a stroke 1 month ago. right side is affected
Will you be reviewing the mendi fnir biofeedback built in Sweden anytime soon ? Similar to the one from South Korea but for home use !
Also, a clinical rTMS device as you are aware has much larger pulse amplitude 2 Tesla, which I believe are somehow magnified like a laser and usually pointed down from the top of the head with the goal of reaching the amygdala.
So I believe the neorhytmn good be beneficial because I believe its using the same principles, but almost like its baby brother ? I'm mainly concerned
if it has the minimum strength needed to provide results even if it over a longer period of time with less power ?
clinical rTMS devices definitely do not directly stimulate the amygdala. It stimulates areas of the cortex (usually the prefrontal cortex) with downstream effects. The NeoRhythm seems to be having a more subtle influence over brainwaves. More research needs to be done. Thanks for the comment!
The amygdala? That is the brains fear centre, rTMS does not stimulate that. It can be placed on the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (for depression as one example), for pain it would be placed over the motor cortex, but the amygdala is deep in the reptilian brain and the idea of stimulating that would not be good, or even possible I imagine. It is infinitely stronger than this device however, which is actually also my main concern, whether it is even strong enough.
Hi Cody! Just a quick question, in case you want to answer. Which headband would you recommend to buy in order to combine it with design and generative graphics?
It would be great to get your opinion! Thank you, and as usual, great video.
Thanks P. G.! I think you could get plenty of data from the Muse Headband but I know their SDK is on the backburner. I wish they would open it up again. Have you looked at the Emotiv capabilities? Emotiv Insight might be best right now. I'm about to get my hands on a new one coming out called Notion 2, that has been designed specifically for programmers such as yourself. My friend Alex Castillo is still in the B-testing phase but they hope to start getting units out soon neurosity.co/. Maybe you want to wait for the Notion 2?
Hi. Dr. Cody, I just got mine, please advice how do you down load on tablet to see the graph or whatever on your tablet?
Mind Monitor Website should have directions. Also I have a video about the program. It used to be called Muse Monitor, so search "Cody Rall Muse Monitor" and you should be able to find the video. Hope that helps!
damn i just had the same idea when i saw your video
Hey Dr Cody, What’s the best brain device to measure our brain waves including Gamma,? Thank you for everything you do 🙏🏻
Please try the combo Touch Point + NeoRhythm for deep sleep and share with us the results.
Dr Cody I have a ? When using the Mind Monitor with Muse 2 I notice my Delta levels are always high, like 112 DB. Shouldn't the levels be lower in meditation? thank you.
Actually I believe you answered my ? at 12:48 thx
With NeoRhythm can I move or working like NeuroFeedback (still)??
This its to be a compliment . U used to be a Cat . Thank u for ur videos , I been wanting to buy something and I think I might go with the Neo ALTHOUGH I wanted the Halo bought it and returned it cuz the app wasn't available in my country So that's what it said when I tried downloading to my cell . Neo did so I guess I will give it a try . :) Thank u!! Doc!
What is different from this Neorhythm vs Mindplace Kasina DeepVision
How do you position the Neorhythm device on the DLPFC?
You would put it on your forehead, approximately midway between your eyebrows and hairline. Hope that helps!
DLPFC... do you use Edcs?
I have the mind monitor and the neorhythm headband. my brain waves are mostly Delta dominant. When I first purchased them the energy mine clarity setting what raise my grandma and lower my Delta. I noticed that recently I test my neorhythm headband with my mind monitor enhancement setting and my brainwaves stay Delta Dominant. Could my headband have stopped working?
What setting is the NeoRhythm on? That could affect the readings. Also, be careful of muscle tension that can often show up as Delta waves.
@@CodyRallMD forgive me I thought I had explained the setting was energy and vitality. Which used to raise my gamma and alpha
Dr Cody, any neurofeedback programs you recommend for training (ideally something that will not make me depend on a device afterwards) the mind to emit less delta and theta waves and more beta and gamma?. I've been watching my stats on mind monitor using my muse S for some time. Thanks for your videos!
What are you trying to treat? Are you drowsy during the day?
@@CodyRallMD Yeah, I'm pretty drowsy and while I can do work just fine it takes extra mental effort to stay engaged in tasks. For full context: Drowsiness had always been an issue for me but I learned to live with it. Just recently, I started taking ADD meds after medical consultation and it has helped a bit. I'm curious to see if neurofeedback could be a better alternative to meds in the future though.
Thanks for your videos. FYI You can just say comfort. Comfortability isn’t a word.
Thanks for that!
Dr you are talking to much as a business man so I dont think its good
Hey Cody... Really enjoy your videos. However, in this case, a few things limit your analysis. Very quickly.
Not only drowsiness may resemble Alpha rhythm's in some cases, but Drowsiness is also specifically associated with the so-called Wicket Rythm and should be dissociated with RMT rhythms and as such it cannot just be simply associated with the wave ranges you mention. These are specific and should be checked with spectral analysis among other things (e.g. monophasic waves; accompanying Alpha, etc.).
To the same extent, Delta increase can also be associated with higher levels of concentration... Etc.
Thanks! I'll keep diving down on the details with future vids!
Thank you, this is useful. I happen to have these two units.
I have a lot of problems keeping my mind from wondering while I meditate. Will the Neorhythm help me with this? Is it worth $300?
That's a normal part of the process.
Can NeoRhythm headband be used by multiple users?
Also, is it child-friendly?
Thanks a lot
Yes on both :)
@@CodyRallMD Thanks a lot!
Hi! Quick question
At 12:00 you mention how this mode targets mainly alpha frequencies and also Theta
The two graphs displayed show a higher average value for Alpha waves without the Neorhythm being used? In fact the alpha readings tend to dwindle slowly
An average value of approximately 65 without the Neorhythm
An average value of approximately 60 to 65 with the Neorhythm
Is the total reading for each type of wave not really relevant? Is it more the proportional amount of each type of wave that is being focused on here?
Cheers :)
I think what the graph tries to demonstrate is the control-group seems an initial large boost and then it drops of lower than initially within a few minutes and their focus drifts "away" while the informed and non-informed users both see a linear trend upwards. It starts lower and increases over time and stays consistently elevated even at the 30 minute mark. What I would be interested to see is what would happen with an hour of testing. If it continued to climb upwards...or not and if the blue continued to drop/stay low.
However, there does seem to be more consistency in both the green and orange levels. Therefore, maintained-focus without distraction might be indicative of the consistent level of focus. If this was a power supply headed into your computer, would you prefer the consistent, measured power-input or the rapid fluxuating voltage going down the line? People actually buy special power bars to get the former to extend the lifespan of PC components and remove signal-noise from finely tuned AV equipment at low volumes (IE getting rid of the speaker-hiss).
If that is what it is doing for your brain, that would be interesting. If....you can maintain concentration for a full hour versus the 14 minutes or so show in blue before the rapid drop-off, interesting....1 hour of consistent, slightly less focused concentration for 1 hour might yield better productivity than a 14 minute burst followed by a slump for 45 minutes. Especially if the focus trend continues upwards.
Yea, his graphs don't show me the same thing he is saying. Also the graphs have different x/y ranges and he only did one control wile doing the other tests in different situations. Also a graph like that doesn't say anything, as it can't be statistically significant.
Bro, what’s your favorite daily device today? And why?
I am interested in replicating some of Rao et al's work on using TMS as a game mechanic. Do you think the NeoRythm is strong and reliable enough to suscitate phosphenes in casual users?
No. Too low powered. I never saw any phosphenes. Would need higher Tesla strength IMO
Any updates?
NeoRhythm didn't help with my sleep and lowered my HRV during meditation, as measured by my Oura ring. Returning NeoRhythm all the way back to Croatia at my own expense sucked too
Sorry to hear that! Is one of your meditation goals to increase HRV?
@@CodyRallMD yes it is!either immediately during meditation or via long term trends
Hi Dr. Cody, would the NeoRhythm help with depression and anxiety?
So far there are two double-blind studies showing that NeoRythm seem to have an effect and they are not that specific. Cody has made a video review on the NeoRythm where it's explained in more detail. You can also read testimonials and reviews and see what people subjectively experience. Good luck.
I was curious about using a kasina mind place device with a muse. The kasina uses LED light kaleidoscope type effect with music to induce relaxation and a waking dream state.
What do you think of this idea? Worth a try? I think it would be interesting
Actually I was considering the same. Did you try it out?
Actually I was considering the same. Did you try it out?
Actually I was considering the same. Did you try it out?
Actually I was considering the same. Did you try it out?
Actually I was considering the same. Did you try it out?
What about using dream 2 with neorythem?
Ahhhh good idea Mohammaed!
I need something to help me sleep through the night. I wake up at 3 am every night. Been to every doctor, had sleep studies. Long story short. Im "Perfectly fine". Sleeping pills don't work. Can this be worn laying down, or your side? Suggestions on something that can be worn at 3 am laying down to get me back to sleep quickly or all night to keep me asleep?
Yes I would try the NeoRhythm for that
If you go to sleep you put it under your pillow
Touchpoints wearable helps with sleep issues like that. Although it's probably better to get to the root cause: are you under a lot of stress, anxiety, ptsd?
@@HRVHackers stress exacerbates it. But its still present in times of no stress. There is literally no reason for it that I have been able to determine yet. Once I do wake up, if I start thinking, then it makes it worse.
@@AM50red Apollo Neuro is good too, some say it's better...but for me the most dramatic effect was achieved with herb extracts like wild lettuce, holy basil or Reishi+passionflower
I have muse 1 and neyrorythm, I don't see any positive difference using both. More to it, its is hard to have both at 1 time
True, but worth experimentation I think.
@@CodyRallMD maybe I am doing something wrong? I am expecting to have better theta and alpha when using muse and neorhythm together, hmm, actual my theta is lower when I use them together
I know your goal is focused on quantitive results but have you experienced mystical experience by delving into altered states of consciousness? I am studying psychology at the masters level currently and want to bridge eeg machines and self reported qualitative experiences for my future thesis if possible.
Definitely altered states but not quite at astral projection yet. I'll let you know when I do ;)
@@CodyRallMD Altered states? With what device?
I highly recommend this video where the guy talks about using light modulation of the brain to induce the gamma spectrum and mystical/expanded/unitary consciousness. Very intriguing.
P.S. the device he shows will be available for professionals only in 2024.
ua-cam.com/video/IQ5BDg1lWok/v-deo.html
valar thankfully you don’t have to wait until 2024 to induce mystical experiences, haha. Just meditate and dedicate yourself to a particular type for any period of time and eventually you will have one.
You might be interested in the Koren Helmet/Shiva Neural System by Dr. Persinger at www.god-helmet.com. Cody, you might be interested too. Use with caution and make sure you meed the requirements for safe use. Decades of research went into that. I'm not affiliated with it in any way. You might also want to see Todd Murphys lectures on spiritual/mystical experiences and the brain. He's on UA-cam, his channel is called "brainsci". He has continued the work of Dr. Persinger after he passed away in 2018, after being mentored by him for 13 years. Take care.
Hey there! Im a long term heavy porn addict and I want this to start meditating. Should I go for Neorythm?
Are you paid by neorythm? You appear on their website as one of the scientist that endorses the efficiency of the device.
And it seems the people on youtube who arent endorsed dont get good results lol
I would love to know the answer to this question.
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you speak really fast. Muse is a monitor to show in a chart, Neophythm is a tool to stimulate the brainwave . Am I understanding correct ? thank you
Thanks, I'll try to slow down speed of speech
Hmm... I might need one of these to destimulate my brain... Once I saw a Ghostbuster's Rick Moranis talking to me, well... that was all I could focus on.
Are you for real? There are very few tech available- and what’s available is very outdated and not on par with 2021, where we have self driving cars. This tech is lagging and I’m talking about Kasina and other light devices . Haven’t found anything that’s worth the
Sorry it's not living up to your standards. I guess the scientists and engineers will have to keep working hard to make your dreams come true.
@@CodyRallMD 🤣
I've always had my doubts as to whether these headbands with their dry contact electrodes are picking up eeg at all. If dry contact electrodes actually work, why are they not used on clinical eeg machines? A professional eeg done in a lab requires scalp preparation and the use of some type of conductive cream or gel to establish contact with the scalp. That is why I consider these eeg headbands, like muse to be just a scam taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge of how difficult eeg signal acquisition is.
Of course right now the signal will be better with gel and electrodes in the lab but how does the public have access to that bulky equipment? The neuro-wearables may not have as good signal quality as gold-standard for complex neuroscience experiements, but it is good enough to do biofeedback and basic biohacking/experimenting with. I get confused when people such as yourself get hung up on "it's not gold standard" and get caught up in the limitations, rather than the possibilities. It's not a scam. The field is moving forward and getting more powerful all the time. Definitely good enough to warrant self-experimentation and participation in the field with self-discovery and feedback for these companies to get better and better.
@@CodyRallMD Are there any videos or research with a side-by-side comparison for sleep studies feed back and what they Muse 2/s can do? Is there a measurement device that is better than the Muse S for sleep analysis, i.e. closer to what you would get in the lab?
That product is a scam
Sorry to hear your viewpoint