To be perfectly fair, the Splawn and JJ are already similar amps dus to both being based off modded Marshalls. But I agree wholeheartedly that cabs are far more important.
The two amps used here are both essentially very similar hot-rodded Marshall-type circuits though. I feel like you’d hear a pretty noticeable difference comparing one of those to say, a Mesa Mark series that has a different circuit topology to it. I own both a VH4 and a Mark V myself and they sound and feel very different to me playing them through the same cab.
The bottomline they’re trying to show is: there is much more difference between two cabs than between two amps. Or in other words: 70-80% of a guitar sound comes from the speakers/cab, not the amp.
Gutwrencher Krahl - yes, I know what you’re saying. It’s even worse through my cheap-ass ear buds through youtube. I watched something like a 15 lunchbox shootout (sonic studios?) and could hardly tell a difference between any of them :o
I noticed that when I first got the raw signal of my Traynor running into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie IR. For an amp made for classic rock, it sounded absolutely huge.
Perfect examples: The Marshall MG amps everyone hates on, or any of the Valvestates that also get hated on. Throw away the shit cabs they come with and use a REAL cab like a 1960 A or B and these amps sound soooo much better.
This is a well-known fact among every serious producer (or even professional guitarist for that matter). Kristian Kohle even proved this on URM Academy already! However, you guys should only ever stop saying it when you stop seeing people accumulating amp heads for literally no reason at all. And given that people are still buying heavy guitars because of "tonewood", it's not gonna happen any time soon.
I didn’t even make it 2 minutes into this, and you got a new subscriber simply because of the Zelda and Nintendo related music. My guy, you’re amazing.
Would love to see Kevin on here regularly. He just mixed/mastered some of our music, very happy with his work. On to the cabinets, i couldn't agree more. Our current favorite is the Friedman 412/15 this is a killer cab for Baritone guitars. The G12H 30s are 55htz-15G15V-100 Fullback- this combo really works with amazing clarity. Our 1991 Marshall has 2 GT75s and we just put in 2 Celestiion Alinco Cream. Then we have a Mesa, all are 4x12 minus the friedman. We also have 7 eminence speakers that we move around from time to time. Best part is you can always find a old 4x12 cab on CL for $250-450 Love this channel , Cheers from Michigan
Great video, a real ear opener 😁Friedman cab sounded best to me but I’d like to also hear the cabs in a room as the Friedman has 2 different speaker types. Played the Splawn and the JJ after one another and the Splawn is more in your face and abrasive while the Friedman has a sound that’s almost like it’s already produced. All comes down to taste (I bought the Friedman). The Friedman definitely has the better master volume and sounds great even when it’s super quiet. Splawn just goes from off to BAM! :)
I actually agree that the cab is way more important than most guys think. Having said that, those 2 Heads are not representative for all heads. Ad in a 5150, a Rectifier, a Diezel, an Engl and a Marshall JVM maybe. The stuff that's being used on a lot on albums. I never even heard of the splawn, never seen it on a stage either. Maybe it's a good amp. I just think this should be done with a t least 7-8 different heads if such a claim is made. No hate, just an opinion.
'A variety of cabs' takes way more space than 'a variety of heads'... Perhaps more feasible for most is to have a few convertible cabs and a wide variety of speakers. And yes, the amps used should've been more of a Mesa vs. Splawn or Fryette; Diezel vs Mesa vs Revv, etc...
@@givemeajackson Absolutely, I agree with you. I'm not contradicting that in my statement. My point is it takes much more real estate to own a variety of cabs , whereas a variety of speakers and one or two convertible cabs (specially if you have a way to add/take out acoustic absorption in the cab) can offer a wide palette of tones at a lower cost and with way less space. Heads are obviously much more expensive, but still take way less space.
That why as a guitar player who doesn’t own a studio, I just bought a Mooer Radar today. Tons of IR cabs in a tiny-ass pedal, that you can even add more to. Not to mention all the classic power amp IR’s, Graphic and Parametric EQ, all for $148.00, it’s a no-brainer for me. I still use an actual guitar rig, but it’s a Tech 21 Flyrig with some pedals and an EHX 44 Magnum into a 212 cab I made my myself loaded with an Eminence Wizard and Governor. This rig sounds good already, but I think the Radar is gonna be the icing on the cake, it may even eliminate a pedal or 2 on my board. All I need to gig with is my guitar, a guitar cable, speaker cable, my pedal board and my 212 cab. Also, no tubes to worry about. 👍 With the Radar, I could probably just run direct. I’m old-school, so I have a hard time trusting sound guys, I haven’t tried that yet, but I’m going to learn all about running direct for live and especially recording. I’m looking forward to it!
Been saying this for years after going to several ampfests where guys brought over all sorts of pricey heads from Bogner, Diezel, Mesa, Cameron, Soldano, etc. On the same cab soo many heads sounded extremely close, different cab and a much bigger difference.
maybe only a good quality 2x12-4x12 or 1x12, many many speakers from different brands make tones better. the brand only make some difference with the quality if you play live but for studio use a quality cab no matter the brand with many speakers give a huge variety of tones (?)
I figured this out years ago when I bought a Crate Blue Voodoo and couldn't fit the cab in my car. Brought the head home and hooked it up to my 5150 cab, and it sounded.... exactly like my 5150. Went back to pick up the cab, and out of curiousity hooked up the 5150 to the Crate cab, and it sounded... exactly like the blue voodoo. (Big difference in sound between the cabs, but almost no difference between the amps)
Definitely more Kevin on here , Backroom Studio channel love it. This information sharing is where it’s at, plus you can get killer deals on cabs. Heads maybe
After being introduced to, and having used IRs for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that amps are for gain, feel, and base tonality while cabs are for final tone shaping.
Mate this can't be more true. I've slowly progressed jnto a hybrid of the digital world and found amazing tones by using a mix of IR, different physical cabs and speakers all attached to a brutal old peavey bandit. I've opened myself up to an infinite array of sounds and not done what I've used to which is stick to "my ultimate tone". You can really push an old amplifier as far as you want
I have a splawn nitro 100. I have a 215 Vader loaded with Eminence legends and I have a 4:12 Vader loaded with Eminence legend 1275 and eminence man-of-wars. between the two cabinets just playing in a live situation on the same head there is a vast total difference. My nitro is the best head I've ever owned in my life. Thank you for your knowledge kind sir
I love seeing stuff like this. Time spent learning and experimenting is invaluable. You'll spend time failing and scrapping ideas, but that's just part of the process. It's still time put toward your 10,000 hours.
Fantastic stuff. Maybe do an IR vs real cab shootout. But create the IR from the real cab and compare how the two respond to palm mutes etc. In different IR loaders too as they all have different characteristics imparted to the sound. Cheers!
I've found through the years that different tube amps mostly only differ in the midrange frequencies and the cabs either help or hurt that tone, some cabs are bassier, while others have great midrange focus. I totally agree that the cab has more to do with the tonality than the head in use. My .02!
I'll add that if you put a mid range sweep pot, a high cut pot and a presence and resonance pot on any amp, you can make the amp sound good with any cab
Most high gain preamps sound the same... so the main sound difference between ampheads comes from the design and type of poweramp. But i am still pretty sure you can find bigger sound variations between two "identical" speakers than two different high gain amps . So yea. More cab/speaker/mic choices is the way to go.
Though I do like showing how little amps change it's a bit obvious considering they are very similar amps (modded Marshall circuits). Comparing a cranked plexi with a pedal and a 5150 or a mesa mk2 and an engl would give much more varied results. That said the main point is true, cabs make huge differences, even similar speakers like say English v30 vs Chinese v30 are bigger differences than some amps.
And free plugins with good IRS are even more so. Thousands of dollars saved to sound the same. Knowledge is the most important thing and cannot be bought, that is why the intelligent lives on the fool. And they sell us Kemper profiler, Axe FX lll Etc
I have a story that supports this. Years ago (this is in the mid-90's) I got a ugly ass frankenstein Carvin speaker cab when I traded this guy a Sunn Beta Lead (with a B channel that didn't work) for a 80's Peavey Butcher. This Carvin cab was originally a 4x10 guitar cab but somebody had "modded" it and put one big 18" in it. As you can imagine, an 18" in a tall and thin 4x10 enclosure looked dumb AF. The dude hated this thing so much he made me take the cab to get the trade. So fine, I took it. Thinking I'd trash the 18" and put 4x10's back in it. But I never did. Because the first time I played through it the thing was GD monster. Absolute godly heavy tone. When I switched from playing guitar in metal bands to bass in punk bands I kept that cab and it still sounded legendary. Didn't matter what I plugged it into. It just sounded big and full and heavy and awesome. I never opened it up, I just kept it for years and eventually got older, got married, had a kid - moved to a bedroom studio type setup. No more live playing so all my old live gear went into storage at my Pop's place. Earlier this year when my Pop passed away I had to deal with all that gear so I sold the amps, outboard gear, and cabs that were worth money and I had this one big ugly frankenstein Carvin cab with that 18 in it left over. Couldn't give it away locally. But I also couldn't just throw it away. On a whim I decided to keep the cab and buy some legit old Celestions or whatever and keep it. When I pulled that 18" out though to my surprise it was a 60's era "coffee can" Electro-Voice 18WK which according to one post on Ebay is worth $1500, lol. Who knows. Point being it's a high quality speaker, and something about how it worked in that particular cab made it sound fucking awesome. And THAT is the point to my long ass story.
Absolutely great video. I realized this about 4 years ago. I had an original 5150 big block and Bogner head. Though different heads it was very easy to get the same sound out of my Mesa recto 4x12. But when I used the heads in the other guitarist Marshall 60AV the tone was completely different. I ended up buying another cab was the end result and liquidated a few heads I had around. Now it’s the 5150 through the Mesa and the Bogner through a Marshall 60th anniversary over sized with v30’s in both cabs. 👍 great content!!! Keep it up. Always love to learn. If you aren’t learning something new each day, then your probably dead 💀.
This ever-regurgitated "hot take" is getting embarassing. Yes, Marshall based amps sound Marshally. Congratulations. Even switching power tubes between el34 and 6l6 makes a huge difference in the same cab and SAME AMP. I think the choice of very similar amps here is an attempt to sell some snake oil-- or this guy knows almost nothing about amps. Take your pick. A Mesa Dual Rec, Diezel Herbert, 5150... even the british-but-much-darker Bogner Ecstacy would all have sounded very different through the same cab. Sometimes they can be eq'd to get close, but that's back to the amp itself mattering.
Great comparisson! I am struggling as to which cab to buy though. Going through the used market, there are TONS of cabs available, all having their own set of speakers. If you don't know exactly what you are going for, it is easy to get lost in speaker land...! And it even gets way crazier when you want to mix signals. At that point I am still having the perspective to just try my luck randomly and hope for the best. Plus: whatever great guitar sound you find: it will have to be polished to sit good in a mix. So an isolated guitar sound that really shines is nice, but that is not your end product anyhow.
@URM Academy: So here’s my idea for a video and my thought process. MOST guitarists can’t have 4x12’s due to space and volume constraints, MOST guitarists do not want to lug a 4x12 to band practice every week, MOST guitarists only mic one speaker any way if they even mic at all, so could you please do a 1x12 Metal/Rock cab shootout? Could be same box and different speakers or different boxes like oversized, theile etc. This would afford the home musician the most flexibility as we could have multiple 1x’s to setup and record or test/tone chase with heads and gear, affording us the broadest pallet of tone available. It would also allow for better use of attenuators to crank tube amps without getting arrested for noise disturbances. Also portability and usually enough volume for most situations. BTW..really glad I found this channel. Strange it’s taken so long but better late than never. Thanks for everything you all do!
This is so true, and it's not like you can say "hurr I can't afford ten guitar cabs!" I don't have any space!"- I've got hundreds of guitar cabs. $29 from Ownhammer. (Also those amps are basically the same anyway, how about comparing a Recto to a JCM?)
Mic choice and mic placement too, drastic differences in very small movements... people have already mentioned IRs, Plug-ins have totally changed the game, From Neural DSP to STL to ML Sound, all you need hardware wise is guitar, interface, and a decent PC
My Triaxis rack sounds completely different with my Eminence Private Jacks vs Celestions V30s....The Private Jacks are amazing for Rawk!!! tones with a Les Paul and my Celestions V30 are perfect for the Metal Mayhem of the 80s and 90s....Pure Thrash...So, I would say more important the speakers than the actual cabs...But, yeah even my different cabs with V30s sound different!
great job! I have one question.... what do you think of the Marshall Mode Four 280 (oversized, closed und no more produced)... I run it with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and dual mic it with a SM57 and a condensor (Audio Technica ATX 20 -I think-). I am not happy with the tone when recording... und neither when playing witg it... :(
Bro IDK what the hell you're talking about. A room full of cabs is way sexier than room full of heads! Thanks for the video! Definitely informed me. Next time i'm looking for a new sound, will start with cabs.
Agree 100% as I put my lunchbox ENGL Ironball amp into my Orange 4x12 amp for wall of sound compared to how thin it sounds through a much smaller Mesa 1x12 cab.
Does cab selection affect anything other than EQ? If cabs are simply EQ filters, wouldn't it be easier to put multiple mics on a single cab, than moving one mic between multiple cabs?
Dude are you from Woodstock Ontario?! You look SO much like a dude we played with and the engineer who did our album at the studio there in the early 2000s. Mastermind Studios
The different cabs have the same speaker, mic and mic positioning on them but sound noticeably different.. Is it the shape of the cab? Different wood types? Size of the cab? What is it?
Blew my mind when I realized a while back that the cab makes more difference. I spent money on a head and didn't like it. Sold it, bought another. It was okay. Then bought a different cab. The cab blew my mind!
Depends on what youre going for. If you just want slightly broken up blues rock tones or downtuned djenty stuff it all sounds the same. If you want to sound like bands like metallica, gojira, cannibal corpse, yes amp heads matter.
I think the message still rings true but I think picking amps that aren't just based off the Marshall circuits would have made it a more interesting experiment. Like a Fender or Mesa would have been pretty drastic compared to the two chosen because they're farther from the hot rodded plexi sound.
Given high gain tube amps are literally born out of hot rodded marshalls, the difference is probably going to be in the midrange. But if you compensate for it, the difference isn't as significant as like, say, changing your mic position or miking up different speaker position from the same cab.
If you switch speakers in a cab, the sound changes dramatically too. If it sounds like 💩, mic a different speaker. But it isn't always about how the amp sounds through the cab mic'd, but how the amp reacts to your playing. Reamping is a bit of a different story... Ad you are going through a different input/buffer/or whatever... And other analog weirdness.
Wonder what the difference would have been if he would have re-miked the same first cab again. Just since no one ever seems to talk about how much difference the mic placement brings to the table in these kinds of comparisons. But i´m guessing he thought of that. would just be nice to hear them say it so I dont have to wonder every time haha! :) Still amazed about the difference though! I´m def gonna try and do this experiment my self!
FYI those two heads share a lot of topology. They're both hotrod Marshalls. It'd have made more sense to do something like a 5150 vs JJ or Recto vs Nitro. Also a lot of the difference is front vs rear mount here.
I have a pair of 2 X 12 Randall cabs. I would have almost gave them away . I HATED how they sounded. One day I got a new head and it just didn't sound how I wanted on the cab I wanted to use it with . Just for kicks I sat it on top of the two Randall cabs and it was magic. I have found that both the cab and head kinda either work together or they don't. But yes its not just the amp :).
Those two amps are basically the same circuit boards. Marshall and Engl sound completely different. The cabs are all about reflections of air. If you open up the back of the cabs it will different as well.
Does anyone knows why cabs loaded with the same speaker type sound vastly different from each other (even from the same brand)? How do the manufacturers change the tonal quality of their cabs especially when most of them use the same wood and speakers?
I definitely agree with the message but as some others have said, it would have been a more effective comparison with 2 heads that aren’t basically the same thing. A rectifier has a different gain structure and feel than an orange or Marshall and each amp will work better in different musical context, due to their base voicing, compression etc. I think it’s worth having a couple of amps for different styles of music and then a good cab and mic selection. That being said there is also only so much variety and the majority of modern high gain heads that were released in the last years sound pretty similar as they’re all going for the same sound as well.
I'd like to see a video explaining why there is such a big difference. Are the cabs made of different woods? Is there different structural supports inside? Does having Tolex or cloth make a difference?
I`ve tried about 40 new Celestion Vintage 30s (including 3 NEW MESA BOOGIE 2x12 cabs) and none of them sounded even close to what we hear on the well known recordings. I tried a few mics including SM57s, SM58, AKG Perception 200, Sennheiser e 609... Then I tried to buy some old speakers: 1988 Marshall V30 , 1995 Celestion G12H-100, 1999 C-90 and 1989 EVM12L and i was blown away. Those new speakers sound nothing like guitar tone we know and like.
Speakers need some time of usage to get their sound. New speakers, studio monitors as well, need time to swing in. Sorry, do not know how to translate that very good. What I want to say is that new speakers need many hours to be good. Like a new motor they need to be used for many hours. Its good to let them be running loops for some days.
@@johannsoncrusoe5589 I know about breaking in the speakers. Half of them I bought already used, another 10 were played by me with band for 2-3 years, 5 hours, 4 times per week and it didn`t help. I`m sure about what I write.
Amp heads use to matter more when you wanted a certain tone but say only rectifiers had that low end chug. People use to talk about 1 and 2 tone amps now more amps are made versatile with things like tone modes, tube switching, and 3 and 4 channels. I say get a versatile amp head and create a Frankenstein 4x12 cab by putting 4 different speakers in it for mic'd up recording and another normal cab for gigs. Obviously that might take a while to get or afford but for a pro setup would be sweet.
Your channel doesn't do much gear rewievs so you guys can tell the truth and not worry about not being sent a head from a manufacturer so you can praise its 'uniqueness' and 'boutiqueness' :D
Ofcourse they are going to sound the same through the same cab. They are both amps modeled after hot rodded Marshalls. So ofcourse they are going to sound the same through the same cab.
Companies like Fractal, Kemper and others that take advantage of the stupidity of guitarists, for each year we sell them the same product but with one more lie "THIS TIME OUR ALGORITHMS ARE BETTER AND THEREFORE IT WILL SOUND CLOSER TO VALVES AMPS". unfortunately 90% don't know the impact of a cab or IR on the final tone, and they pay $ 2,500 for something they don't need.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
so no one is gonna talk about the wii music on background?
I was just gonna say 😂
its so annoying
thanks I was trying so hard to remember where I've heard it before!
i wonder if it's royalty free
I think it's funny but aren't they gonna get a copyright strike for it?
Exactly why Impulse responses have taken off. Easy way of getting a bunch of cabs for cheap. lol Great video
I loved his work at the gas monkey garage so you know this guy knows his stuff.
Okay that was funny lol
hahaha
What in the fuck is splawn...you mean Todd macfarlanes splawn?
To be perfectly fair, the Splawn and JJ are already similar amps dus to both being based off modded Marshalls.
But I agree wholeheartedly that cabs are far more important.
The two amps used here are both essentially very similar hot-rodded Marshall-type circuits though. I feel like you’d hear a pretty noticeable difference comparing one of those to say, a Mesa Mark series that has a different circuit topology to it. I own both a VH4 and a Mark V myself and they sound and feel very different to me playing them through the same cab.
They don’t just pick anyone to come on here. This is a hot hot info platform.
I’d agree, the Mark V definitely has a distinctive tone vs my LBXii
Have you seen Ola’s amp shootout video? Almost all the amps he shoots out in that video sound the same, aside from the H&K Triamp.
The bottomline they’re trying to show is: there is much more difference between two cabs than between two amps.
Or in other words: 70-80% of a guitar sound comes from the speakers/cab, not the amp.
Gutwrencher Krahl - yes, I know what you’re saying. It’s even worse through my cheap-ass ear buds through youtube. I watched something like a 15 lunchbox shootout (sonic studios?) and could hardly tell a difference between any of them :o
I feel like a cheap way to have just a taste of that is to have a solid and great variety of different cab IR's. Works for me, at least
I noticed that when I first got the raw signal of my Traynor running into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie IR. For an amp made for classic rock, it sounded absolutely huge.
Perfect examples: The Marshall MG amps everyone hates on, or any of the Valvestates that also get hated on. Throw away the shit cabs they come with and use a REAL cab like a 1960 A or B and these amps sound soooo much better.
yeah this! back in the day i would use my valvestate 100 combo with DI out into a cab sim and woah incredible tone.
yup a cheap amp head and great large cab is the way to go. No real need to spend 5k on a Diezel amp head.
Kevin's a great dude. Good to see he's on urm
Appreciate it!
On a related note: if you don't like your digital tones, put different IRs in the chain. Great IRs make everything sound great.
What he said.
what is IR?
Simon Hamel Impulse Response
Oh yes so true
Facts.
This is a well-known fact among every serious producer (or even professional guitarist for that matter). Kristian Kohle even proved this on URM Academy already!
However, you guys should only ever stop saying it when you stop seeing people accumulating amp heads for literally no reason at all. And given that people are still buying heavy guitars because of "tonewood", it's not gonna happen any time soon.
SPLAWN WITH THE FRIEDMAN CAB THO
I already agree with this conclusion based on the use of Wind Waker music in the background in the intro.
And Wii Sports 3:44 😂👍
you're welcome
🌽🌽🌽
Enjoyed all the Nintendo music in the background, especially the SMW credits music at the end.
I didn’t even make it 2 minutes into this, and you got a new subscriber simply because of the Zelda and Nintendo related music. My guy, you’re amazing.
Would love to see Kevin on here regularly. He just mixed/mastered some of our music, very happy with his work.
On to the cabinets, i couldn't agree more. Our current favorite is the Friedman 412/15 this is a killer cab for Baritone guitars.
The G12H 30s are 55htz-15G15V-100 Fullback- this combo really works with amazing clarity.
Our 1991 Marshall has 2 GT75s and we just put in 2 Celestiion Alinco Cream. Then we have a Mesa, all are 4x12 minus the friedman.
We also have 7 eminence speakers that we move around from time to time. Best part is you can always find a old 4x12 cab on CL for $250-450
Love this channel , Cheers from Michigan
Thanks! more content on the way for you!
I SAW DILLINGER BOI, I CLICKED, IM A SIMPLE BOI
How about just owning one 4x12 for recording that has four different speakers in it to mic up?
Great video, a real ear opener 😁Friedman cab sounded best to me but I’d like to also hear the cabs in a room as the Friedman has 2 different speaker types. Played the Splawn and the JJ after one another and the Splawn is more in your face and abrasive while the Friedman has a sound that’s almost like it’s already produced. All comes down to taste (I bought the Friedman). The Friedman definitely has the better master volume and sounds great even when it’s super quiet. Splawn just goes from off to BAM! :)
Fantastic Job. This is 100% true! I didn’t realize it until I got a universal audio OX.
I actually agree that the cab is way more important than most guys think. Having said that, those 2 Heads are not representative for all heads. Ad in a 5150, a Rectifier, a Diezel, an Engl and a Marshall JVM maybe. The stuff that's being used on a lot on albums. I never even heard of the splawn, never seen it on a stage either. Maybe it's a good amp. I just think this should be done with a t least 7-8 different heads if such a claim is made. No hate, just an opinion.
'A variety of cabs' takes way more space than 'a variety of heads'... Perhaps more feasible for most is to have a few convertible cabs and a wide variety of speakers. And yes, the amps used should've been more of a Mesa vs. Splawn or Fryette; Diezel vs Mesa vs Revv, etc...
There's much more to a cab than just the speaker. An orange PPC has the same v30s as a recto oversized, and they sound very different.
@@givemeajackson Absolutely, I agree with you. I'm not contradicting that in my statement. My point is it takes much more real estate to own a variety of cabs , whereas a variety of speakers and one or two convertible cabs (specially if you have a way to add/take out acoustic absorption in the cab) can offer a wide palette of tones at a lower cost and with way less space. Heads are obviously much more expensive, but still take way less space.
That why as a guitar player who doesn’t own a studio, I just bought a Mooer Radar today. Tons of IR cabs in a tiny-ass pedal, that you can even add more to. Not to mention all the classic power amp IR’s, Graphic and Parametric EQ, all for $148.00, it’s a no-brainer for me. I still use an actual guitar rig, but it’s a Tech 21 Flyrig with some pedals and an EHX 44 Magnum into a 212 cab I made my myself loaded with an Eminence Wizard and Governor. This rig sounds good already, but I think the Radar is gonna be the icing on the cake, it may even eliminate a pedal or 2 on my board. All I need to gig with is my guitar, a guitar cable, speaker cable, my pedal board and my 212 cab. Also, no tubes to worry about. 👍 With the Radar, I could probably just run direct. I’m old-school, so I have a hard time trusting sound guys, I haven’t tried that yet, but I’m going to learn all about running direct for live and especially recording. I’m looking forward to it!
Kevin Antreassian is such a smart and talented guy! more Kevin videos pls!
Been saying this for years after going to several ampfests where guys brought over all sorts of pricey heads from Bogner, Diezel, Mesa, Cameron, Soldano, etc. On the same cab soo many heads sounded extremely close, different cab and a much bigger difference.
Many amps do sound the same, when tweaked to match. Speakers do make a hell of a difference.
Johan Segeborn did something similar with vintage Marshall’s and cabs and speakers do make much more of a distinct difference than different amps do.
Johan is a tone scientist. He has taught me so much.
Randall Warhead has entered the chat.
Never even the merest hint of bullshit with you, Kevin. I appreciate that.
"aside from doing recordings for 15 years"
Subtle flex.
maybe only a good quality 2x12-4x12 or 1x12, many many speakers from different brands make tones better.
the brand only make some difference with the quality if you play live but for studio use a quality cab no matter the brand with many speakers give a huge variety of tones (?)
I figured this out years ago when I bought a Crate Blue Voodoo and couldn't fit the cab in my car. Brought the head home and hooked it up to my 5150 cab, and it sounded.... exactly like my 5150. Went back to pick up the cab, and out of curiousity hooked up the 5150 to the Crate cab, and it sounded... exactly like the blue voodoo. (Big difference in sound between the cabs, but almost no difference between the amps)
Really blew me away. Definitely something to consider for sure! Thanks for the solid idea Kevin!
I don’t like how its alwats about ONE thing. Its never true with recording. Every component in the chain matters.
Definitely more Kevin on here , Backroom Studio channel love it.
This information sharing is where it’s at, plus you can get killer deals on cabs. Heads maybe
You again...I agree, hope to see more Kevin on URM
After being introduced to, and having used IRs for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that amps are for gain, feel, and base tonality while cabs are for final tone shaping.
Mate this can't be more true. I've slowly progressed jnto a hybrid of the digital world and found amazing tones by using a mix of IR, different physical cabs and speakers all attached to a brutal old peavey bandit. I've opened myself up to an infinite array of sounds and not done what I've used to which is stick to "my ultimate tone". You can really push an old amplifier as far as you want
I have a splawn nitro 100. I have a 215 Vader loaded with Eminence legends and I have a 4:12 Vader loaded with Eminence legend 1275 and eminence man-of-wars. between the two cabinets just playing in a live situation on the same head there is a vast total difference. My nitro is the best head I've ever owned in my life. Thank you for your knowledge kind sir
I love seeing stuff like this. Time spent learning and experimenting is invaluable. You'll spend time failing and scrapping ideas, but that's just part of the process. It's still time put toward your 10,000 hours.
Surely your cab recording space doesn’t have that much room tone being captured?
Fantastic stuff. Maybe do an IR vs real cab shootout. But create the IR from the real cab and compare how the two respond to palm mutes etc. In different IR loaders too as they all have different characteristics imparted to the sound. Cheers!
Riff sounds like smoke on the water 2020
I've found through the years that different tube amps mostly only differ in the midrange frequencies and the cabs either help or hurt that tone, some cabs are bassier, while others have great midrange focus. I totally agree that the cab has more to do with the tonality than the head in use. My .02!
I'll add that if you put a mid range sweep pot, a high cut pot and a presence and resonance pot on any amp, you can make the amp sound good with any cab
@@riffsnreviews You can add 5150 matched Resonance and Presence to the effects loop with amptweaker depthfinder.
The new thing I learned from this was how much better the Splawn sounds compared to the Friedman JJ.
Winder Waker OST tho, bless you.
Anyhoo, I quite like Orange cabs.
I wanted to skip ahead and accidentally grabbed my wii controller. I love the sound effects btw 🤘
I mean, they're both based on a modified Marshall. If it was a 5150 v Mesa Mark V it'll sound pretty different.
My thoughts exactly. You put a mesa, Randall, and Orange side by side they’re all gonna sound different.
MORE Torrential Downpour PLEEAAASSEEE!!!!
Most high gain preamps sound the same... so the main sound difference between ampheads comes from the design and type of poweramp.
But i am still pretty sure you can find bigger sound variations between two "identical" speakers than two different high gain amps .
So yea. More cab/speaker/mic choices is the way to go.
Though I do like showing how little amps change it's a bit obvious considering they are very similar amps (modded Marshall circuits). Comparing a cranked plexi with a pedal and a 5150 or a mesa mk2 and an engl would give much more varied results. That said the main point is true, cabs make huge differences, even similar speakers like say English v30 vs Chinese v30 are bigger differences than some amps.
How can the sound be that roomy with a close miking?
It bled through my talkback
And cabs are generally less expensive!
And free plugins with good IRS are even more so. Thousands of dollars saved to sound the same.
Knowledge is the most important thing and cannot be bought, that is why the intelligent lives on the fool. And they sell us Kemper profiler, Axe FX lll Etc
I have a story that supports this. Years ago (this is in the mid-90's) I got a ugly ass frankenstein Carvin speaker cab when I traded this guy a Sunn Beta Lead (with a B channel that didn't work) for a 80's Peavey Butcher. This Carvin cab was originally a 4x10 guitar cab but somebody had "modded" it and put one big 18" in it. As you can imagine, an 18" in a tall and thin 4x10 enclosure looked dumb AF. The dude hated this thing so much he made me take the cab to get the trade. So fine, I took it. Thinking I'd trash the 18" and put 4x10's back in it. But I never did.
Because the first time I played through it the thing was GD monster. Absolute godly heavy tone. When I switched from playing guitar in metal bands to bass in punk bands I kept that cab and it still sounded legendary. Didn't matter what I plugged it into. It just sounded big and full and heavy and awesome. I never opened it up, I just kept it for years and eventually got older, got married, had a kid - moved to a bedroom studio type setup. No more live playing so all my old live gear went into storage at my Pop's place.
Earlier this year when my Pop passed away I had to deal with all that gear so I sold the amps, outboard gear, and cabs that were worth money and I had this one big ugly frankenstein Carvin cab with that 18 in it left over. Couldn't give it away locally. But I also couldn't just throw it away. On a whim I decided to keep the cab and buy some legit old Celestions or whatever and keep it. When I pulled that 18" out though to my surprise it was a 60's era "coffee can" Electro-Voice 18WK which according to one post on Ebay is worth $1500, lol. Who knows.
Point being it's a high quality speaker, and something about how it worked in that particular cab made it sound fucking awesome. And THAT is the point to my long ass story.
What about playing a guitar through them ⁉️
Or get different impulse responses! Much MUCH cheaper, and the wife won't kill you! :D
Absolutely great video. I realized this about 4 years ago. I had an original 5150 big block and Bogner head. Though different heads it was very easy to get the same sound out of my Mesa recto 4x12. But when I used the heads in the other guitarist Marshall 60AV the tone was completely different. I ended up buying another cab was the end result and liquidated a few heads I had around. Now it’s the 5150 through the Mesa and the Bogner through a Marshall 60th anniversary over sized with v30’s in both cabs. 👍 great content!!! Keep it up. Always love to learn. If you aren’t learning something new each day, then your probably dead 💀.
This ever-regurgitated "hot take" is getting embarassing.
Yes, Marshall based amps sound Marshally. Congratulations.
Even switching power tubes between el34 and 6l6 makes a huge difference in the same cab and SAME AMP.
I think the choice of very similar amps here is an attempt to sell some snake oil-- or this guy knows almost nothing about amps. Take your pick.
A Mesa Dual Rec, Diezel Herbert, 5150... even the british-but-much-darker Bogner Ecstacy would all have sounded very different through the same cab.
Sometimes they can be eq'd to get close, but that's back to the amp itself mattering.
I love that there's wii music behind brutal metal
Speaker and Mic DRASTICALLY impact the tone. Amps definitely do something but yeah, cabs and speakers are so much of the tone.
Great comparisson! I am struggling as to which cab to buy though. Going through the used market, there are TONS of cabs available, all having their own set of speakers. If you don't know exactly what you are going for, it is easy to get lost in speaker land...! And it even gets way crazier when you want to mix signals. At that point I am still having the perspective to just try my luck randomly and hope for the best. Plus: whatever great guitar sound you find: it will have to be polished to sit good in a mix. So an isolated guitar sound that really shines is nice, but that is not your end product anyhow.
@URM Academy: So here’s my idea for a video and my thought process. MOST guitarists can’t have 4x12’s due to space and volume constraints, MOST guitarists do not want to lug a 4x12 to band practice every week, MOST guitarists only mic one speaker any way if they even mic at all, so could you please do a 1x12 Metal/Rock cab shootout? Could be same box and different speakers or different boxes like oversized, theile etc. This would afford the home musician the most flexibility as we could have multiple 1x’s to setup and record or test/tone chase with heads and gear, affording us the broadest pallet of tone available. It would also allow for better use of attenuators to crank tube amps without getting arrested for noise disturbances. Also portability and usually enough volume for most situations.
BTW..really glad I found this channel. Strange it’s taken so long but better late than never. Thanks for everything you all do!
This is so true, and it's not like you can say "hurr I can't afford ten guitar cabs!" I don't have any space!"- I've got hundreds of guitar cabs. $29 from Ownhammer.
(Also those amps are basically the same anyway, how about comparing a Recto to a JCM?)
Mic choice and mic placement too, drastic differences in very small movements... people have already mentioned IRs, Plug-ins have totally changed the game, From Neural DSP to STL to ML Sound, all you need hardware wise is guitar, interface, and a decent PC
My Triaxis rack sounds completely different with my Eminence Private Jacks vs Celestions V30s....The Private Jacks are amazing for Rawk!!! tones with a Les Paul and my Celestions V30 are perfect for the Metal Mayhem of the 80s and 90s....Pure Thrash...So, I would say more important the speakers than the actual cabs...But, yeah even my different cabs with V30s sound different!
great job! I have one question.... what do you think of the Marshall Mode Four 280 (oversized, closed und no more produced)... I run it with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and dual mic it with a SM57 and a condensor (Audio Technica ATX 20 -I think-). I am not happy with the tone when recording... und neither when playing witg it... :(
Bro IDK what the hell you're talking about. A room full of cabs is way sexier than room full of heads! Thanks for the video! Definitely informed me. Next time i'm looking for a new sound, will start with cabs.
Super Mario World endgame music in the background......love it! 🤣
Agree 100% as I put my lunchbox ENGL Ironball amp into my Orange 4x12 amp for wall of sound compared to how thin it sounds through a much smaller Mesa 1x12 cab.
Does cab selection affect anything other than EQ? If cabs are simply EQ filters, wouldn't it be easier to put multiple mics on a single cab, than moving one mic between multiple cabs?
Even in the world of VST, changing the IRs will change the tone dramatically.
That's an "eye" opener. It's a shame you didn't have a MESA 4x12 Traditional to throw into the comp.
Dude are you from Woodstock Ontario?! You look SO much like a dude we played with and the engineer who did our album at the studio there in the early 2000s. Mastermind Studios
The different cabs have the same speaker, mic and mic positioning on them but sound noticeably different.. Is it the shape of the cab? Different wood types? Size of the cab? What is it?
Blew my mind when I realized a while back that the cab makes more difference. I spent money on a head and didn't like it. Sold it, bought another. It was okay. Then bought a different cab. The cab blew my mind!
I'm still looking for a cab that gives that fat tone I use a palmer cab with greenback speakers but it's not the real deal witch cab did you buy!?
@@daan3192 I had a cheap 4x12 Marshall cab and now a 2x12 Mesa recto cab. Selected the 2x12 over 4x12 because of weight and size and love it.
Depends on what youre going for. If you just want slightly broken up blues rock tones or downtuned djenty stuff it all sounds the same. If you want to sound like bands like metallica, gojira, cannibal corpse, yes amp heads matter.
I think the message still rings true but I think picking amps that aren't just based off the Marshall circuits would have made it a more interesting experiment. Like a Fender or Mesa would have been pretty drastic compared to the two chosen because they're farther from the hot rodded plexi sound.
Given high gain tube amps are literally born out of hot rodded marshalls, the difference is probably going to be in the midrange. But if you compensate for it, the difference isn't as significant as like, say, changing your mic position or miking up different speaker position from the same cab.
If you switch speakers in a cab, the sound changes dramatically too. If it sounds like 💩, mic a different speaker. But it isn't always about how the amp sounds through the cab mic'd, but how the amp reacts to your playing. Reamping is a bit of a different story... Ad you are going through a different input/buffer/or whatever... And other analog weirdness.
Wonder what the difference would have been if he would have re-miked the same first cab again. Just since no one ever seems to talk about how much difference the mic placement brings to the table in these kinds of comparisons. But i´m guessing he thought of that. would just be nice to hear them say it so I dont have to wonder every time haha! :)
Still amazed about the difference though! I´m def gonna try and do this experiment my self!
FYI those two heads share a lot of topology. They're both hotrod Marshalls. It'd have made more sense to do something like a 5150 vs JJ or Recto vs Nitro. Also a lot of the difference is front vs rear mount here.
Kevin is the MAN! Check out his UA-cam channel- Backroom Studios
I have a pair of 2 X 12 Randall cabs. I would have almost gave them away . I HATED how they sounded. One day I got a new head and it just didn't sound how I wanted on the cab I wanted to use it with . Just for kicks I sat it on top of the two Randall cabs and it was magic. I have found that both the cab and head kinda either work together or they don't. But yes its not just the amp :).
Those two amps are basically the same circuit boards. Marshall and Engl sound completely different. The cabs are all about reflections of air. If you open up the back of the cabs it will different as well.
I love the use of Zelda Wind Waker (Outset Island) and Wii Sports theme music at the beginning.
What about playing featured guitars through bass cabs?
I typed detuned not featured!
Does anyone knows why cabs loaded with the same speaker type sound vastly different from each other (even from the same brand)? How do the manufacturers change the tonal quality of their cabs especially when most of them use the same wood and speakers?
I definitely agree with the message but as some others have said, it would have been a more effective comparison with 2 heads that aren’t basically the same thing. A rectifier has a different gain structure and feel than an orange or Marshall and each amp will work better in different musical context, due to their base voicing, compression etc. I think it’s worth having a couple of amps for different styles of music and then a good cab and mic selection.
That being said there is also only so much variety and the majority of modern high gain heads that were released in the last years sound pretty similar as they’re all going for the same sound as well.
I'd like to see a video explaining why there is such a big difference. Are the cabs made of different woods? Is there different structural supports inside? Does having Tolex or cloth make a difference?
+20 points for the wind waker music in the background
I`ve tried about 40 new Celestion Vintage 30s (including 3 NEW MESA BOOGIE 2x12 cabs) and none of them sounded even close to what we hear on the well known recordings. I tried a few mics including SM57s, SM58, AKG Perception 200, Sennheiser e 609... Then I tried to buy some old speakers: 1988 Marshall V30 , 1995 Celestion G12H-100, 1999 C-90 and 1989 EVM12L and i was blown away. Those new speakers sound nothing like guitar tone we know and like.
G12H
Speakers need some time of usage to get their sound. New speakers, studio monitors as well, need time to swing in. Sorry, do not know how to translate that very good. What I want to say is that new speakers need many hours to be good. Like a new motor they need to be used for many hours. Its good to let them be running loops for some days.
They eq the shit out of guitar recordings
@@johannsoncrusoe5589 I know about breaking in the speakers. Half of them I bought already used, another 10 were played by me with band for 2-3 years, 5 hours, 4 times per week and it didn`t help. I`m sure about what I write.
@@piotrczernikiewicz no critcism :) Jusz my thoughts on the issue
Amp heads use to matter more when you wanted a certain tone but say only rectifiers had that low end chug. People use to talk about 1 and 2 tone amps now more amps are made versatile with things like tone modes, tube switching, and 3 and 4 channels. I say get a versatile amp head and create a Frankenstein 4x12 cab by putting 4 different speakers in it for mic'd up recording and another normal cab for gigs. Obviously that might take a while to get or afford but for a pro setup would be sweet.
Please don't do that weird background music.....
Your channel doesn't do much gear rewievs so you guys can tell the truth and not worry about not being sent a head from a manufacturer so you can praise its 'uniqueness' and 'boutiqueness' :D
just get a kemper and cut all this crap for recording 😂😂😂😂. For rehearsal theres nothing than a crancked tube amp
Ofcourse they are going to sound the same through the same cab. They are both amps modeled after hot rodded Marshalls. So ofcourse they are going to sound the same through the same cab.
Imo modern high gain amps just sound samey. Amps matter!
not true, Fortin and Omega amps sounds pretty different even with the same cab
I feel like getting more mikes or simply change the mike positions would be a cheaper and faster option..
Or...just move the mic.
Doesnt change the basis of the sound itself, so with mic moving you make it fit into the mix
Or just get some different good IR's! lol
Companies like Fractal, Kemper and others that take advantage of the stupidity of guitarists, for each year we sell them the same product but with one more lie "THIS TIME OUR ALGORITHMS ARE BETTER AND THEREFORE IT WILL SOUND CLOSER TO VALVES AMPS".
unfortunately 90% don't know the impact of a cab or IR on the final tone, and they pay $ 2,500 for something they don't need.
DUDE! is that roller coaster tycoon music in the back ground?
I recently watched some video about tone color and choosing brighter cabs for darker heads etc.
I came here for the knowledge, and I was greeted with the Wii Sports theme song. I am not disappointed