The guitar recording trick that changed metal forever
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2024
- If you've heard of the Fredman Technique for micing guitars (on mic on-axis, the other off-axis, then blended), you know that it changed metal guitar tone forever.
Since Fredrick Nordstrom popularized it with At The Gates "Slaughter Of The Soul," it's been on countless albums, and in this video he explains exactly how and why he does it with two SM-57s and his custom mic clip.
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"We did the an album back in the day called Slaughter Of The Soul." - The Tamest Man In The World.
immediately humbling imo
Thanks so much for making this!
f u Glenn. But serious question here, why are dual mics always placed in the same speaker driver? Fear of phase issues?
@@nobnobnobnob you can use different speakers, just jam them up against the grill cloth to get the phase right.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does someone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?
I was stupid forgot my account password. I appreciate any assistance you can give me!
@Warren Harley Instablaster ;)
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Fredrick Nordstrom's work has had a profound influence on millions of metalheads...and he looks like your dad.
Everyone looks like your dad eventually.
I'm your dad.
No, I'M Spartacus...
He is my dad🙃
Kid-ding ? Or true ?
Thank you for this, would like to see more with Fredrik Nordström, he is THE legend!!!
The beauty of this technique is that it cancels high end fizz without the need of a low pass filter
André Silva does it sound better than a low pass filter though?
@@yrrahyrrah Yes.
@@BigFatCock0 tone is more natural this way though some di and plugins are coming a long way but recording slaughter of the soul with essentially shit gear and getting that crystal clear of a sound is amazing
Was literally discussing this technique, producer, and it being used on At The Gates with a friend the other day.
I love that riff, We make Sweden Rock by Hammerfall...I’d recognize that anywhere
I printed out a clip I found on Thingverse for this purpose and we got some absolutely savage tones with it.
That direct mic technique is good for some types of music, but I prefer offset (between the cone & the edge). That is better, for me, when it comes to heavy music.
psychoacoustics: louder sounds always better! we should listen to the separated microphones wit volume compensation!
You can try it yourself. You'll find it still sounds better volume-matched. Guaranteed.
You should do another vid like this with it put into a mix. Appreciate you guys .
Peter Denenberg was using this mic'ing technique at Acme in New York back in the 1980s (on Spin Doctors, amongst many other records); and frankly I'm sure Peter wasn't the only one THEN either.
Yea… I love how people think nordStrom “invented” this … Hendrix was doing something similar in the 70s, tons of guys in the 80s as well. It’s a good technique and sounds great ( when done right), but it’s far from new earth shattering information .
Nice. Do you record them in 4 different channels? How do you mix them? Thanx!
Legendary studio/mic set up.
The comparison between the off axis, on axis, and combo was pretty stark. Good to know.
Interesting. If seen as a stereo pair, it's sort of an inverse OTRF pattern, but the on/off axis approach sounds quite good. I'll probably try it with a stereo bar next time I try to record.
Thanks for making this man! I mentioned in a previous comment but in short, I used to not get the hype around this sorta technique but hearing you do it was pretty legit! Will definitely look into down the road!
amazing!! The muddy off axis gave it more definition when mixed in
Where can i buy the custom clip for the mics ? Thanks for a real good video 😀
fredmandigital.com/products/fredman-clip
Go it! Two mikes in the same ENGL!
Could someone explain to me how this is different than the technique Eddie Kramer used on Jimi Hendrix’s albums? It seems very similar.
Kramer used different mics(57/421). And a close room mic. So it's the same but different...
Sounds like he kinda got the idea from Kramer then.
dan meme It's quite possible, given that this was before the giant explosion of all information being readily available all the time, that he'd never heard of it.
He was in the scene though and info was spread from producer to producer, word of mouth passing info etc. I'm pretty sure he knew of Kramer and some of his techniques. Hate to break it to you but before internet info was still out there. At the same time it is possible yes.
I was about to argue and found myself circling back to say exactly what you said. Anything is possible.
I particularly loved the clipping...
There is no clipping, what you hear is the scratchy pick noise!
Sid you play guitar? Then you know this can happen if the pick have a specific angle when it hits the string.
@@jensloetzsch stop talking rubbish like that. thats digital clipping :D get a good pair of speakers
@@laura-sophiemohr4178 Yes, digital clipping is there, I didn't really hear it at first and I was told about it several times, no problem. But there is also this picking noise which many people confuse with clipping, if you are a guitarist you should hear it ;)
Oh, I have good speakers, don't worry ;)
@@jensloetzsch yea the guitars are scratchy but I think the clipping is emphazising on that. I play guitar for over a decade so I did notice but I dont think its too bad. :)
What speakers are you listening on? :)
@@laura-sophiemohr4178 To be honest, the first time I listened to it I noticed the picking noises more, especially with very thick picks i have similar problems with them.
And yes, of course there is clipping, I was probably wrong.
I use M-Audio BX5 monitors, it's not a high end product, but I know them very well and in the high end they have a very fine resolution.
Hey Frederick, more Dream Evil please
Oh man. The guitar tone has balls
I'm probably just dumb. 55 degrees (not 45) from where? 55 degrees from the plane of the first 58 or 55 degrees from the flat plane of the cab?
The off axis microphone is 55 degrees from the on axis mixrophone. Seems like.
This is a great sound and very well presented.
What that marshall cab is?
You can hear the strings fretting out on the pickup cover during the test guitar tracks. Sure sign the pickup height is too close to the strings.
Irony: A clip about getting great sound that includes digital clipping.
and a camera operator who apparently is unfamiliar with the word "focus"
where are you seeing the clipping?
@@boogabuga7657 You don't see clipping, you hear it and it's blatant.
@@boogabuga7657 Better get your hearing checked if you can't hear it.
@@ROOKTABULA What you hear is a scratchy pick noise, it's not clipping!
I wonder if those mics can be passive mixed to one preamp to the same result.
wow Thanks for this video hands down one of the most helpful and informative video I have seen. you guys rock! Thanks!
it's interesting that on the engl cab the on-axis mic is a bit off axis (angled) so this way the off-axis mic is even more off-axis than what it should.
Is it just the camera angle or is it on purpose?
It absolutely works on everything from clean to savage but I discovered it from a description by Andy Johns.
what is the mulitband plug in doing? and isnt this the same technique Eddie Van Halen used in the 70s-80s?
Thank you for that great vidéo. Can we know which speaker are used ?
V30 in Engl and Creamback in Marshall ??
Yes. If you want exact info I have it on my channel.
He also recorded the legacy albums from In Flames.
Eric Arden in other words, the good albums. Everything up through Clayman, if I'm remembering right.
@@metalboy5150 pretty much. Clayman was their last good album. Definitely went down from there. I think re-route to remain had an under appreciated sound, but still can't hold a candle to previous albums.
Wow. Maybe I should do some more research on him. I remember slaughter of the soul’s recording process being legendary for some reason or another, but I never really thought about In Flames’ recordings.
@@edgyswordsmanmusic6769 block letter 5150 into and Friedmanned engl cab. That's what legend says anyways...
Are the 2 mics hard panned to the left and right?
Nice angle you took on this video. 🖤
My dudes killin it with the Birkenstocks
Is this only for metal guitars? Can I use it just on any guitar cabinet? Just for a mixed blend does it have to be distorted can I make one microphone clean and one distorted? When mixing
Is there an IR pack for this?
Very cool, but TBH I’m partial to the SM57/Royer 121 combo. It just sounds bigger.
I agree, just add in a room mic to the 57/ribbon combo and there you have it! This technique only works for shitty over distorted metal guitar tone.
Good news is you can still use the 121 in the Fredman position! Definitely my favorite combo currently.
Sorry for being stupid here, but the "on axis" and "off axis" final two sound the best to my ears. When he plays the first two clips, and then finally plays them all together, it sounds like garbage to my ears. What would I do to achieve just what he described as the "on axis" and "off axis" sounds (3:55 to 4:20)?????
Rick Beato , beeen there
Dude. You owe me a new pair of britches, I think I just wrecked mine...
I have a 3D printed version of this clip. I personally don’t like the off axis mic pointed at the dust cap so I flip it around so that it’s pointed at the cone but parallel to the angle of the cone while the other is parallel to the grill cloth. It’s similar but beefier, this technique is a bit brighter.
is it the white one?
Eyal Levi Yeah.
TacoTacoTacoTaco I think you’re right about that.
Did you record guitars for an Architects the same way?
I am desperately trying to figure out what speakers are in that Marshall cab, it's a legendary cab that's been on so many good records. EDIT: Believe it or not, I found out. It will be on my channel soon.
is the weird crackle from hitting the mics too hard?
Great tones!
Nice to see you agan, Eyal.
Nice to see you too timon!
Where I can get this clip?
Played metal guitar for almost 30 years - never heard of the Fredman technique
/shrug
As far as I am aware, it is mainly used for Death Metal.
Great tricks 👌👌
Sweden Rock 🤘
Idk what has a bigger impact... This mic technique, or those DELICIOUS 5150 III heads...
It's always the cab that makes thr biggest difference
5150 block******
@@hannes1734 the mic'ed cab, I'd say. Mic position can't be overrated.
Could one accurately simulate this effect using ampsims/cabsims?
Better yet, you could achieve something identical with a single 57 at an angle somewhere between 0 and 45!
@@ChrisTheContagion no, you can't. as soon as you put more than one mic on the same source, you'll get phase cancelations at some frequencies (which frequencies depends on the placement), which obviously can't happen with a single mic. so it's physically impossible to get the same sound with a single 57.
@Miki Vukovic there are ir's out there that were made using the fredman technique.
I know Redwirez makes allot of IRs (i bought their entire pack lol) and you have just about every major mic and position with major cab models, etc, and you can try it to your hearts content. Short answer: yes. I think the point of this video is obvious (marketing) however I think it;s just as much that as it is him trying to set the record straight. I used to hate most of the Fredman technique style IRs and demos of "real" amps however I think this one is actually good and worth looking into.I think if you're gungho about it, I think it'd be worth it for you to just get the clip and another 57. I know Glenn Fricker released and IR that was Fredman style but in my opinion its not that good. Just look up his website and it should be downloadable when you subscribe or whatever.
Pretty sure ownhammer have a bunch of IRs set at 45 degrees. Bit too bright for me.
Ou est le link pour le clip?
There are 3D models for the clip in thingiverse for 3D printing
it's not the right angle
he would claim it's wrong.... ;)
original -> 55°
copy->45°
You can just change the angle
Just imagining Nordström with an angle measuring tool in the 90s...
The 5150 sounded so much better than the EVH 5153.
URM Academy. The on axis mic is aimed at the cone? Not at the edge of the cone?
yes
@@tobiase8254 -It's a binary question.Edge or center of cone? It's really hard to see from this vid.
@@russwilson2305 Center
@@tobiase8254 -Hmm. Thanks for the input. That's the 2nd to the last place I ever put a mic!
Check out Obscura's new album
andy sneap forum flashbacks
Kram Nossib those were the days man.
Trying this.
Could this clip work with a sm57 and a sm58?
If you unscrew the cage from the SM58, sure. And you can, it's only there for wind and physical protection.
Aren't those the exact same mics but for the cage..?
The Man, The Myth, The Legend himself
Woo!
Interesting stuff
55-degree angle? Not 45? =0
wow Hammerfall
I am an obsessive sound engineer with 25 years experience... and I have never heard of this technique until I saw this weird plastic clip on my ebay suggestions today.
I will admit, I don't use SM57s on guitar cabinets, but I'm all ears, right. Let me get my cans and have a listen...
It is kinda interesting. It is better than the single sm57, and it attenuates quite a lot of the dodgy timbral qualities of an SM57, but it's really got a lot of upper mids, and it still has that '57 character.
I'm definitely going to try this dual-mic angle method of taming the cardioid, but I'm not sold on the SM57. It is a "fast food" sound. Sort of greasy upper mids, no subs, and kinda thumpy "chud chud chud" midbass hump.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 Nobody answered but I liked reading your opinion about the SM57, I'm not very much found of its sound as well, usually...
Playing on Celestion V30 and being recorded through SM57 is a good way to sound like anyone else in the business, especially if you are a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier or a Peavey 5150 guy
@@misanthropeimmortel does killswitch sound like immortal? What about linkin park, do they sound like testament ? All of these bands plus just about everyone else in the world uses a 57 on a cab, and it’s for a very solid reason… and none of those bands sound anything alike… if you can’t sound original, it ain’t the gear homie …
What you do is. You grab your standard metal amp. Whatever it may be. Then you put it trough your favourite 4x12 cab. Doesn't matter what cab.
You put 1 sm57 on the top right speaker. Dead center. Against the grill/cloth. Then you grab a fredman clip. And put 2 sm57's in it and put it dead center on any other of the 4 speakers. Depends what you like best. These microphones shouldnt be against the grill/cloth. It should be about 1 feet away from the cab.
Then you take a nice room mic and put it where you like.
Mix these 4 mics on an analog board. Even a cheap Behringer 4 channel mixer will do. No need for expensive crap.
Take a mono output from that mixing board and put it into your Daw. You don't need to mix anything in your Daw. Just a bit of leveling. And cutting out any quiet parts where the guitar doesn't play
More mics = more phase issues
Phase shift frome multiple mics can be used as another tool for tone shaping... very similar to eq'ing. Most introduce phase shift. The so called fredman technique is using phase shift to tone shape.
This is a recipe for a disaster… there’s a reason literally no one in metal would ever mic guitars like this … like, ever.
I Wanna profile that with my kemper
Afaik you can find enough friedman IRs these days if the kemper can work with those ;)
Is this video being recorded just outside the Gaza Strip? Are there hostages being held nearby? I need to know more.
Crafty, crafty Scandinavian you.
I use that trick too ;)
Why does this not sound great? Am I’m missing something?
I was thinking the same.
My Pod Hd and most pc amp sims sounds 5x better than this.
Question yourself: what is the thing you are missing. Describe it to us.
Could totally work in a mix, but it's not what I would desire as standalone sound, true. Very hammerfally, too much gain (washy..?), not enough high end presence hiss. the 5150 trough the Mars**ll sounded decent on it's own...
Sounds like the kind of upfront guitar sound that fits into a band rather than the wider sound of a guitarist who only plays with themself (hah!) and leaves no room for the bass guitar and out competes the top end of the cymbals!
@@dustrider9306 how can any of you judge a mono guitar tone and how it sound in a mix? Answer : you can’t . Pan two takes of that left and right and it’s gonna sound huge.
Interesting, but want a fantastic sound? Use an SM57 and an i5, both slightly off axis on the same speaker (after you identify which speaker sounds the best of course).
Fredrick Nordstrom rules! One of my favorite engineers ever!
You rock too Glen F. from Spector Sound. Big fan of your show!
What about using 2 different mic preamps? Uad610 and Isa on the other mic...
Why are you cramming the microphones into the speaker ? That looks pretty dumb.
What difference does it make how it looks? The ideas how it sounds
It's too bright. Need some darker sound mixed in there. Perhaps an sm57 on the outer edge or a room mic?
Last one had static
show me the difference between a 55 degree angle and a 45 degree angle and if that convinces me I will give you a like.
I know he is quibbling over the specific angle, but the reality is that 55 vs 45 makes no meaningful difference. The technique is just not that sensitive to small differences. It works well regardless.
was thAt rick graham in the intro
...and then everything At The Gates recorded after this sounded like complete turd!
This sounds very Ratt
Sounds like hair metal.
"At the Gates"... Coolest band name ever.
What a noob, i hope you atleast listen to there entire disc catalog. Its beyond genius, almost savant!
Shure mics crush all 🤘🏼
"Also check out my biker gang. The mild ones." - Fredrick Nordstrom
Why do you need a special clip? Can't you just mic 2 cones instead?
soundmattersuk phase issues
You could just use two mic stands the clip is just a convenience. You do have to position the capsules together as shown or you will have phase issues to deal with. Of course you can deal with the phase issues it just makes it trickier.
@@threepe0 of course
Phase issues and it gives you the proper angle 55 degrees
@@threepe0 the wavelength of a 440 Hz A is about 681 km in air. Thats one hell of a room mic.
can anyone get an impulse response of this?
Check out Glen Fricker's IR pack from Lancaster Audio. He's got a couple Fredman IRs that sound killer
Not a fan personaly
I don't hear any difference.
Yuck
I like the technique. But I actually did not enjoy this sound.
I don’t believe he created anything that changed metal doesn’t hold a candle to tonni iommi
Background heesss and popping cliping.
Not to my likeng
Horrible sound.