Cab Shootout! - Mesa Rectifier Oversized 4x12 vs Vader 4x12
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
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SM57 direct on the Mesa V30 and Eminence Legend where the cone meets the cap. Room mic was an Audio Technica AT2020 placed 6 feet back, directly between the cabs
No post processing! All pedals in my signal chain shown!
What did you think? Comment Below!
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I just picked up a Vader 4X12 cabinet today. Found it at the Guitar Center used website in Albany. The ad was so new that they didn’t even have a photo of it. I still brought it anyway and I’m so glad I did. I have a cat so I need a cabinet with a metal grill. I had 2 Vader 4X12’s in the past and it killed me to sell them after I lost my job. I plan to buy 2 more 4X12 cabinets. These cabs are legendary in the death metal / metal scene.
Mesa traditional vs oversized next!
As long as it’s not a close Mic’d comparison….
YES
I still have my Vader 4x12 I bought in 2008! One of the only things Ive held onto over the years even though I haven't played a show in over a decade haha.
The mesa hands down. I cant get enough of those mids.
You should shoot out three heads: Marshall 800, Mesa Dual Rec, 5150. These are kind of the standard bearer and Prolly the most well known high gain heads. Just stack em up on a switcher and use the recto cab and maybe a 1960a as the benchmark cabs? Would be killer to have some labels too as reference.
Mesa all day and night.. Nice comparison Kyle!!
The format was perfect. Listening to the recording before the debrief was even better. You are on the right path.
Thanks my man!
your channel deserves an amp and cab switcher for seamless a/b comparisons, that would be greeeat!
Yep.. KHE!
Right off I get the ice pick high end from the Mesa and the Vader seems to have the "Blanket" over the speaker sound. I like the Vader if more presence is needed in the end. I want to see more of these! You are doing a great job with this man! \m/
While everyone was cookoo for cocoa puffs over these, I was going after the JCM900 1960s
I own an actual JCM 800 412 cabinet, and also a Mesa 412 OS Recto, and a Vader 412. The Vader sounds the best out of the 3, in my opinion and personal experience with still owning all three cabs.
I love the final thoughts, most UA-cam vids always say "you make your own assumption", but it's nice to hear someone who was in the room, who has experience with a lot of gear, what they really think!
Thanks man! I try to state them in a way that doesn't come off too biased to my own ear, but also state what I experienced to help the viewer understand what they're missing on the other end
Excellent idea to put different speaker in the Vader....i.e. V30's and then repeat the test with the MESA V30. That would truly show the difference in the cabinets. Nice work.
Vader is back up and manufacturing cabs
Yay
This is the shootout I've been waiting for
Great thing about legends is you can really crank the highs before they get fizzy or harsh. They just get clear. Mids get warm and the bass stays tight. I'd imagine both cabs require a different eq
They both sound great. Only thing is that the Mesa seemed louder with both mics. May have to do some volume balancing in future shootouts.
I didn't want to adjust levels because I wanted to show the differences in volume between the two cabs with all other settings exactly the same.
@@belligerentamateur makes sense. Maybe that's an additional element worth adding. Volume adjustment vs no volume adjustment.
Damn I love both for different reasons, cheers Kyle
Thanks man! Hope it helped?
@@belligerentamateur not looking to buy atm but was interesting to hear some eminence legends - I'll probably be going for a zilla cab soon as they're easy to come by here in the UK.
Killer tones as usual mate 🔥
Now this here....... This hea, is what I've been longing for. Like the other fellow mentioned on here- this is uncharted territory. On possibly infinite levels of sounds.
Cool video! It would be sick to hear both at once also.
Really well put together video bud. Both have things I like and don't like about them. The Mesa clearly was a lot brighter, I think running both together would sound huge. Great job man 🙌
Nice video man. I was actually sponsored by Vader in the early 2000's and I absolutely love those cabs. They are so punchy in all the right places. The Mesa sounds a little fizzy to me in the high end sizzle. Also, it looks like your Vader has that truck bed liner like coating on it. This means it is one of the later models. The earlier ones have a very dark blue like tolex on them. There is a slight sound difference between the early and late model Vaders with my favorite being the early models but both are amazing and I think the Vader takes a 57 very very well personally. Keep doing you brother. I'm enjoying the vids. Cheers!
Thanks man! Cool to hear, I need to spend some more time with this cab
That cab with 2 Swamp Thang and CV-75 is just crushingly good. Adds a bit more of that upper mids and bite with a tighter punchier low end in the room and miced. Hell the Swamps and some DV-77's could be killer.
I just put some dv77s in my vader cab. It's a hard choice between the vader and my mesa now. Lol
🤘🏼The Vader Cabinet by a mile!! The Eminence Legends have much more punch to it!
I don't know if you have the KTre still but my main rig is an early production Vader (before the rhino lining) and a boosted KTre. Match that with some active pickups to tighten the low end of the KTre and give that a shot... You'll be moving some serious air. I've run a slew of amps through my Vader and found that the it really starts to shine when you pump some serious power into it. Keep up the awesome work man, love the content!
The Vader sounded really distant when close mic’d.
I love the Diezel front loaded and Carvin Legacy cabs for metal.
I had a Carvin cab but it was beat, badly. Never owned the FL Diezel
I was surprised that I really really liked the Vader through the room mic more than the Mesa cab. With the SM57, the Mesa cans takes the win. I've never played a Vader cab but have quite a lot of experience with Mesa cabs and I really do enjoy them so this was a treat!
I would like to hear the 5150 stealth with the marshall mode four cab. i think that would be a killer combo.
Mode four underrated
2.69k Subs? NICE! I think I like the Vader more since it doesnt have as much high end in it. The Mesa has a lot of 5k-9k bite in it (now I love mesa cabs myself). Both are good and can be good in different situations.
Hey Kyle, do you know the production year of the mesa cab? Does every mesa OS came with V30's ever since?
All Mesa OS cabs come with v30's. The year of the cab is only a ballpark.. What changes the most is the v30's over time. The date codes on the speakers are your best bet to the different sound signatures.
I've snagged two Vaders and I love them dearly. But this video has proven that I need a mesa in my collect as well
They're very different beasts, room for both
Haha ! I also upgraded from the behringer to a Mesa standard straight/slant ! Was in 2008 I believe. Same path haha
now, Cabs having a shoutout. i will not be surprised if he did a speaker shootout. though I intended to tell this just to give you idea in the future. haha.
how I wish you swap the 6505+ combo's speaker with a Swap Thang or a Governors. lol
lovin' your content. thanks for giving us samples so that we could decide which one for our taste. God bless you, sir! more subs to come.😊
This shit right here! That's what I'm here for. This is uncharted territory
You may not see this but Id love if you micd each speaker in that Mesa cab. I have found on 4 different cabs Ive been getting much better tone from upper/slant positions. Interested in what you find.
Kinda odd... My Vader sounds way tighter in the room to me than my OS Recto cab. I know they're notorious for not taking to a 57 as well as the recto cab. My understanding is they tend to shine with LDCs or ribbon mics.
They're definitely built for touring with the metal grills and rhino liner covering... They're fkn tanks
Correction- Adam still builds a few 212/412 Vader cabinets. But! They still go for a hefty price, especially his custom build 412’s. I own both and Vader412>Mesa OS 412 Recto cab
He still makes them in small batches from time to time. I have two older ones and two newer custom ones I’ve got over the last couple of years. The newer ones don’t have the same Eminence Legend Customs like the older ones, but the speakers they use still sound just as sick.
Didn't know he still made them, that's cool! I did hear that the later runs after he started back up have different legends in them
my first cab was the Beringer! lol it was a love/hate relationship.
I'm gonna grab another for funsies
Great video! Only thing I’d add to this format is to have both cabs combined, playing at the same time. Should be an easy addition to this process.
Back In 2007 I bought (2) Vader 2x12’s after trying out a Marshall, Orange and Mesa 2x12’s. I liked the Vader’s for awhile but I remember back then NOONE could record with them. The cabs were built with the Peavey XXX in mind. I had a heavily modded Peavey Ultra Plus 120 and I was still lacking something. Long story short I bought a Mesa and ended up selling the 2 Vader’s many years later. I kinda miss them(there is a weight difference as well I think the Mesa has thicker and or more dense wood) but I think I would’ve been happier with V30’s in the Vader’s instead of the Eminence. The comparison in your vids show it has a dark/blanketed sound with a mic close up, but would be good in a live setting.
Overall I think the Mesa wins but I miss the “cool elite” factor with the Vader.
Yes!! more speaker cab/speaker shootouts, done the exact same way, or swapping speakers with same cab. I think the cab/speaker has way more influence on your sound. If you wanna go crazy shoot out the hesu demon vs v30 vs dv77. Choptones did a comparison of the hesu vs the v30 with the Randall Satan which I can watch over and over again.
Thanks man! I'm already looking into a cab switcher so I can just do real time switching
I will be doing speaker comparisons in the same cab as well, starting with the v30 vs dv77
I love the Vader given I own one amongst two 1990 era Marshall 1960 cabs (an A and B model) great review btw
Thanks@
awsome i love cab shoot outs they arer great videos
I know it’s a pain to mount and dismount several speakers but the same speaker in different cabs would be an awesome video. Shoot out the cabs loaded with the same speakers.
Just got a mesa oversized, so it better sound the best 🤣
Validate! my purchase!
I just want to validate! My purchase!
Slipknot reference
Lol that gave me a good laugh. Liberate! Bananas! 😂 that Mesa 412 is def brighter, kinda weird how dark the vader is
@@isatariq7533 LMFAO! shit just had high school flashbacks.... fucking Liberate! Bananas! god damn haha.
@@isatariq7533 I dont like the brightness on the mesa cab. Mine's just sitting on craigslist.
im getting strange results lol, close mic i preferred the mesa, the room mike i liked the vader better.
Kyle i know you have bogner cabs, im thinking of an uberkab for my rev blue. but, front or rear loaded,
anyone any opinions !
enjoyed the shootout kyle !
Awesome shootout!! If you have a Randall XL and a Mesa Traditional, I like to see the difference between the 2 with the Mesa badlander if possible 😁
Kinda liked the mesa more overall,
You hit the nail on the head for me on the Vader, total sludge vibe
Great video! Suggestion for some of the next videos, compare V30 VS Eminence DV-77 (Mick Thompson signature speaker) in the same Mesa Cab, if you can find one, i would like to hear your input on that.
You should do a speaker swap on this with the mesa speakers.
I thought I wanted a mesa 4x12....til I tried to lift it 😂😂 changed my mind real quick. 104 lbs MY BACK
Mesa seems more clear but gets shrilly at times. Still think it wins in this particular comparison. How about a v30 loaded cab like the Mesa, vs the MF280 which has those 70 watt v30s?
Hey Kyle, an idea I’m trying: Switching out 2 V30 speakers with the new Eminence DV-77 speakers. I bought one to test and sounds killer along with the V30. I just ordered a second one to install in that Mesa cab.
I have 2x of the old flat top, straight/slants just like the one you have there... And they both sound VASTLY different from each other. OG speakers.
And my new straight sounds totally different still.. But that's to be expected.
A lot of people saying the Vader seems like it's for Doom or Sludge bands. My lead guitarist plays through a Vader cab and we play fast melodeath/core type style and it sounds very clear. The live sound it punches through with no issue, very loud even though it seems quiet here
I have the same Gibson worn brown les paul. Minus the pickguard, and with Bare Knuckle Nailbombs. And a lot more 'worn' haha. Great thrash guitar.
I have 2 Mesa straight slant cabs and I had a Vader for a while. I didn’t really like the Vader and sold it. I had the same thoughts as you! For a slower doom band or a chugging death metal band it would probably work great. But that’s not how I play so I got rid of it.
ahhh mate Mesa for me all the way!!
well let me know if you ever want to part with that Vader buddy lol i would absolutely love one 🔥
Those eminence speakers are very dark i have them in a soldano cab you need to push the presence up on the amp.
Peavey 5150 4x12 (with Sheffield 1200s) vs EVH 4x12? That would spark some interesting debates. I have a Peavey 5150 cab and it's unbelievably good to me. Definitely would love to see how it stacks up against an EVH cab.
Great stuff as always …question I hope u can anser I have a mess over sizes can back had a two input option with 4 ohms stereo can I plu
Shut hit enter to qwik can I plug in my stealth to both inputs
I had a Vader 2x15 that I paired with a Diezel 412 from when I was younger... but sadly had to sell both cabs. My buddy still has the Vader I sold to him though
Wow, the Vader cab sounds as if it cuts the highs even under 6 kHz, much earlier than the V30s.
Had a Krank cab but wasn't a fan of the Legend speakers. I have been playing Seismic 2x12 cabs with 1979 vintage G1265s. Great for all metal.
The Mesa has more frequency range to me. Unfortunately, I think the Vader has some Eminence Man O Wars into it.
Mesa hands down. The Vader sounds like a blanket is over it.
The Mesa eats it alive IMO!
I would try a eq pedal in there and try to match frequencies between the two cabs
As far as speakers, there seems to be buzz about Eminence DV-77's for high gain metal. Have you heard of them?
I have a pair sitting in my garage, waiting to be installed
Just changed out my vader speakers for dv77's. Now I actually want to play through the vader. Lol I can't tell if I like my mesa or vader better now.
Haha last time you made a video while you were driving in your car I asked you about VADER cabs.theres a chance that your vader cab may have been my old vader? Those "no named eminence speakers" freaking sucked and I had a guy who offered me twice what I paid for it and I sold it but they look so cool and wish I still had it.ive heard that they really fucking scream with a set of V30's in them.you may want to give that a try before you let it go 🤘🤘👍👍
Well to really hear the difference each cab makes you'd have to put the same speakers in both. Including same speaker ohms and wiring too. I'm not personally that interested in the Vader cab but that's how you'd hear the truer differences between the cabs themselves.
I'm not solely focusing on the enclosures, but focusing on how different these cabs sound in their stock configurations.
@@belligerentamateur ah well in that case carry on?? Would be good to mention that we're also hearing differences in speaker types as well tho which does make a huge difference. Great work tho man. I really enjoy your channel!
@@AtTheSourceStudios thank you! I do plan on doing speaker tests within the same cabinet in a video at some point, but I need a solid weekend day to do that one. Lol
Great comparison 👍, I have a Genz Benz G-flex cab that sounds to dark for my taste, just wondering what speakers would brighten it up, so can't wait for the speaker change on the Vader cab if you do it 🤘
I have a G-Flex 2x12 that was unloaded and dropped a couple of Eminence V12's in it but I may put Deltalite ii 2512's in it for the higher power rating and the ports. If you have a 4x12 G-Flex, Governors might work or the Vintage 30. I'd like to have a 4x12 G-Flex with Governors but the Governors would have to be 175w each.
Three speakers from Eminence I can think of that are bright are -
CV-75
Man O' War
Wizard
Thanks for your input 👍
@@hwy2hell161 No prob. I know your comment was old but maybe someone could use the info.
Very different sounding cabs, needing very different EQ settings. Which cab did you use to set the amp? Try dialing based on the ideal sound for both cabs. Vader ideal EQ and then try that on Mesa. Then dial for Mesa and play on the Vader. There's a million ways to do it but that would give you some really good variety \m/
I agree. I didn't really tune it to either cab per say, just dialed it in close to my normal settings and then went through both cabs. I'm mainly just looking to show the differences in each cab with the same settings as that will show the tonal differences between the two
@@belligerentamateur Absolutely. Hey, as you said in the video, this is your first one, just go for it, try it out and see what happens. You can always tweak later to make it more specific or whatever makes sense. Really cool that you got the Vader. My experience with them, they sound vicious with a 5150 🤘 Or Mesa boosted with a Metal Zone or Maxon TS9+ (Cannibal Corpse style)
This is my issue with cab shootouts. People tune their head to their favorite cab and then record. Ideally you should tune the head to optimal for each cab then let us hear it.
The old Krank cabs would sound similar to the vader cab maybe?
I’d say so, because they use the same Eminence Speakers Legend V12’s for the Revolution series Krank cabs. The Krankenstein series uses Texas Heats.
Would you ever consider making impulse responses? You always have killer tones and id def buy your IR pack if you had one.
Stay tuned my man. Some things in the works
@@belligerentamateur awesome! Will do
More 4x12 cab comparisons please.
The Vader wins for me, I'm just not a fan of the fizzy treble sound from that Mesa, although paired with a Mesa amp I can see it making sense since they're a bit more muddy sounding by nature. The Vader just had everything in it's right place for me, I'd love to get my hands on one
Just switched out my vader v128 speakers out with dv77s. Now my mesa has some competition.
What is your opinion on the difference between them too
@@m1blazer2 Between the dv77 and mesa v30? The V30 is a little more aggressive in the upper mids. The dv 77 is still really aggressive, but a lot clearer than the v30. I tried both cabs in a full band mix and the dv77 loaded vader cab is my favorite. They seem to cut through better for a full band. Could hear the bass more, and the cymbals more clear.
peavey invective through vader cab and 7 string or 8 string
I liked the Vader cab, I think with brighter speaker it will shine ! I didn't like the Mesa, but it's mainly because I hate V30 harshness
Different eras of V30's sound vastly different from eachother. Some are harsher than others. Some scooped.. Some middy.. Some dark enough to mic the speaker dead center.
@@XChristianNoirX yup, I discovered that not long after posting that reply ! I've found a UK made V30 that is perfect ! I had tried mostly chinese V30 at that time haha
Usually a couple times a year he'll do some runs, hopefully I can get in on this 2x12 run he's doing rn. I was lucky enough to get in on the 4x12 run lol.
My 4x12 has such a heavy bottom end and I love it for my 7 and 8 strings.
I need to get some different speakers in it. The legends aren't my thing at all, but the cab itself is dope
When did he do a 412 run? I missed it😞
@@dwhyte6697 The run I got mine from was December 2019, but I think he did one early this year! He kind of does them out of nowhere it seems
I actually prefer the Vader. Maybe not where you are sitting in your room hearing the cabs though.
Both sound great! I prefer the Mesa IMO
🤘🏼🤘🏼
Do the mesa oversized vs your MF400 cab.. :)
Mesa for me
Mode four k-100 and MFv30s vs Mesa
Mesa 1,000% 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Switch two speakers from each. Now do the comparison. X formation.
While the Vader has some richness to it that would do well while tracking in the studio......
The Vader would get swallowed in a loud band setting.
You forgot to play them both at the same time!
My ears always like V30s in an oversized box.
I like the Vader midrange better. Mesa sounds kinda boxy.
Nice to see im not the only one that kinda preferred the vader
I liked mesa more - more aggressive and present sound, Vader seems to be more behind
I definitely wouldn’t get rid of it if it took that long to get one
That's what I'm thinking, for sure.
You wanna move that Vader on let me know...would love to have it.
Where ya located man
@@m1blazer2
Indiana
@@kevincochran5361 I'm in Louisville selling a vader.
@@m1blazer2 that wouldn't be too bad a road trip
@@m1blazer2
Nah don't face book but Indy would be a good mid point
Meaa wins. Of course they do. Mesa rules cabs
Throw them dv77s in the vader
That's a Pre-Gibson Mesa cab 🤣