Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths and Motives | Lies of the Andals
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Our newest installment in our Mysteries, Myths and Motives Series, detailing how full of it the Andals actually are
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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"The Lying Piece of Shit Andals..." LMAO
I don't know another way to say it
Perfectly expressed...lol Robert Frost couldn't top it...
The statement is so true tho lol.
Lol! Couldn't have said it better myself
seems like the perfect way to say it!
For the stannis story. I find it ironic that stannis started his own way of making people bend to him but now in the north he listens to Jon and changes his plan by winning over small battles instead like what Robert or renly would do
I don’t always agree with your conclusions but I really appreciate how thought provoking your videos are and certainly make me think hard about things I had taken for granted. You guys definitely stand out from much of the asoiaf UA-cam crowd and am always excited when a new video pops up in my feed!
Amazing as per usual. Thanks so much Lord & Lady GH! This is the one youtube channel that I check every day for updates. Cant wait for part 2!
thank you so much...I wish we were capable of putting more content out than we do
Looking forward to the next chapter of this discussion. Always a pleasure to watch your videos 😊
thank you elizabeth
Great video as usual folks,man you’ve got a cool voice for narration should do a few chapters,and congratulations🍺❤️👑🐺⚔️🔥🤘
Thank you so much
Starks are said to come from the 1st men and none of them are blonde.also the boltons not blonde,umbers not blonde,most of the iron islands not blonde,very few wildlings are blonde only one i can think of is val,mountain clan of the vale are not blonde .So many 1st men families are just as dark haired.
I have a question for the two of you; if there are only a few smiths in the world (I believe all in Essos, right?) that can rework Valyrian steel, how do the maesters who study it forge their links for the higher mysteries? Is the Citadel hiding the secrets to Valyrian steel?
there has never been an explanation given for that...perhaps one of them went to Qohor and stole the knowledge of how to do it...or, it's just another thing the maesters lie about
It occurred to me during Rawr's vid on Blackfyre that it might have been reworked by one of the... wait a minute. Fucking Citadel.
Good video
Yes! Yes!!!!
The tale of the blood sacrifice of the swan maidens made me realize that the faith of the seven seems to be the only religion in the present that doesn't practice human sacrifice. The old gods, Rhllor, the Droened God and the Faceless God all have human sacrifices.
At the same time, the faith of the seven seems to be the only "dead" faith, of which we have no indication in the books that their gods exist and are powerful. We see the powers of all the others.
That can't be a coincidence.
Very good point
Imagine following the *_only_* religion that doesn't have real gods.
Feels bad man
The hate for the Andals is real 😂😂😂😂
they lie about everything
Well. We no it is a lie because all other religions in the story are proven. The my problems with it is that it’s the most coming and most misguided religion in Westeros. Let’s face it. If the Andals didn’t lie , them magical stuff would happen and everyone in Westeros would known the magic exist and that the nights king is coming
There the worst Valyrians are the best
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand do you realize how insane and antisemetic in nature it is to generalize and entire race of people as liars? That’s not how human beings work.
@@Dnzjsjdk Exactly. Almost every religion in ASOIAF world shows proof that they're real and their gods constantly interact with their followers, except the Seven. There are no magic events with them, not many stories written about them except the ones that Andals talk of.
The first time I saw a video from this channel I was like "Meh. More tinfoil lunatics"; but the more I viewed the more I was convinced.
Have to admit that there are some claims that challenged my expectations, and I even went as far as comparing the evidence for what you guys propose with those of my own expectations and damn...
You guys seriously pull of a really deep research.
Keep it up!
Don't forget that the ironborn are also sea fairing First Men, but they deny that
true
Lord Aurelius if anyone in the Woiaf is a race apart from anyone, it's the Valyrians, YITish and the Asshai'i who I bet are all of the same pergenitor
I think that the first men were part of the the Empire of the Dawn (pre Yi'Ti) and the Valyrians were descendants of the actual rulers of that empire. It was a massive empire so we'd have to assume that there would be several different culture groups. Asshai was undoubtedly the capitol of the empire.
The Valyrians can be as different as they want, but if anyone's a different species of humans, it's the Ibbenese AND the Brindled Men.
Ooh also the Starks with Brandon the Shipwright
Grey rats...I'm hearing a touch of Lady Dustin in this video😁. Love it! Awesome video guys.
long time no chat...good to see you in here...how have you been?
The Order of the Green Hand Oh I know its been a while. My apologies; I got so caught up in my channel that I stopped watching other videos. I got burnt out on UA-cam lol. But I'm back! And I've been ok; I have some health issues that are finally starting to get better so I'm encouraged.
Congratulations! I saw on Facebook that someone put a ring on it...I'm so happy for you guys❤.
thank you so much...it took me forever to pick a stone I thought would be worthy of m'lady...and we totally understand...we don't watch other people's videos very often unless someone sends us a link of something that we think would be interesting...and congrats on your channel...it takes a while to get noticed but keep putting logical well thought out videos together and people will notice you eventually...it took us like 4-5 months to make a video that got noticed...and take care of yourself...as old people always say, if you don't have your health, you don't have anything
The Order of the Green Hand Well you picked a beautiful stone! I'm sure Lady Greenhand is quite proud of it😊. I thought y'all were already married honestly; you're so good together I guess I just assumed lol.
And thank you for the encouragement, it means a lot. I never thought I'd get 10 views on any video I do so I'm proud that I have what I have, however little that is. Like you said, you just have to keep at it and eventually you'll get there.
we've been living together for over 4 years, so we were practically already married...we didn't think people would watch us either and we continued to think it for months and then right around Thanksgiving all of a sudden out of nowhere a bunch of people watched our videos in the Netherlands and that was all it took...then our videos went from having like 100 views to having videos with over 1000 views and then people seem to view us as more credible
Heheheh, I can't say I'm surprised. After all, if the Maesters happily claim that OLD GHIS is the first true 'civilization' to ever exist, this implies that they must have had strong ties to Ghis. Meaning, the original Andals were likely an offshoot or a colony of the Old Ghis empire. If so, that clears up and reveals SO MUCH of where the Andals' loyalties ultimately lie.
Interesting. Do you reckon the Andals supported slavery originally then?
@@made-line7627 given how they treat their small folk, yes.
What a shame that they didnt inherit the crazy hairstyles. It would be awesome to see the mesters using that hairlooks
@@made-line7627 I get the idea that they did. Maybe they claimed to be the opposite, though, to appear enlightened and morally superior to the Valyrians.
What?
Do you also think that historians are secretely in league with ancient egypt or something?
I wonder if the Andals didn't specifically choose Westeros to because the Valyrians had a prophecy about being destroyed by the gold of Casterly Rock? So, they knew that the Valyrians would never attempt to colonize that land and impose religious freedom.
I have heard this rumour also but GRRM said that before Doom happen The Valyrains were planing to invasion of Westeros. ( what bad timing)
I've noticed that the Andal religion of the Seven is the only major faith that doesn't have any powers. The faith of the First Men rooted in the old gods had magic such as warging, and we've seen what followers of the Lord of Light can do, with shadow-assassins and resurrections. But the Faith of the Seven have no power at all on its own. It's just a superstition with a gilded clubhouse. That kinda makes the Andals look like morons. The First Men had supernatural powers with their religion, and the same can be said of the Essosi who gravitate towards the Lord of Light. Yet the Andals rejected both powers in place of seven gods who haven't even shown a single miracle.
the Seven that are one are secretive and liars...unfortunately I need to hold on to the rest of my response until part 2 comes out
I just don't understand how the Seven could have gotten hold. In a world where magic and miracles are a common sight, especially in Essos, How the fuck could a faith with no magic or powers ever achieve strength? Especially if they were but one small area in Essos...........
being fanatics makes any group of people tougher than they should be
The Lord of Light religion also has fanatics. But their shit actually works.
true...we think the Seven have a few tricks up their sleaves
You know how Drogo constantly Jorah “the Andal”? Do you think that was because he was a slaver? Never thought about that until this video
I always assumed it was because he's from Westeros and the Dothraki call Westeros Vaes Andalos, which translates to Land of the Andals, or something to that effect...it could have something to do with his slaving past, but that would depend on how forthcoming Jorah was with Drogo...Drogo doesn't seem (at least to me) to be the type that cares why someone was exiled, but he's a very unique Khal so who knows
Well the dothraki slave all the time aswell
I believe that Hugor of the Hill didn't exist at all and that that was the story that the Andals told to hide the truth that they ran from Valyria since the seven was the only faith not allowed in the Freehold
part 2 is going to center around what worshiping the Seven actually means
Or, maybe Hugor of the Hill got really high on their version of Hashish.
The Order of the Green Hand thanks can't wait to hear that because I have some interesting thoughts on that. Well. I'm interested by them lol
I believe your second part of the statement is wrong I think they left Anglos for more easier people to be taken over. I believe that Andals knew some day the The Freehold will came for them. Once the Rhoyar was gone., Believing that their faith is only one that should be worship.
the DL only game for the people that attacked them but the maestar always talk about the dragonlords like they are the ones who started the fight when in reality their ending it sure they probably did start some but not all I think the masestar should at least mention that
House Arryn is described as having the purest Andal bloodline in Westoros, and they are usually blond (eg: Jon Arryn and Harrold Hardyng)
We don’t know how true that statement is though.
One bloodline doesn’t speak for the others. The Lannisters, Daynes, Hightowers, and many others are older bloodlines from the first men and they’re the ones famous for their fair skin and hair
@@voriandayne-en9gbnone of those households are first man...
@@Faustus_de_Reizthey all are. The Hightower’s and Daynes have been around longer than most houses including the starks and the Lannisters, while a younger house, still predate the andals
@@BL-bg1fj predating the Andals doesn't mean they are first men. The Daynes as an example of invaders from the Empire of Dawn, prior to Andals.
I personally feel that the Andals don't have that great a history to boast about. They feared the Valyrians and fled from Essos, attacking the First Men in the process and destroying the COTF. They retreated from the strong and preyed on the weak. The Targaryens taught them their place. Fire and blood!
we think Maegor the Cruel had the right idea, but should have gone farther
The Order of the Green Hand I've always felt that Maegor was a great ruler, one that the Targaryens needed in their time of despair. His cruelty towards the Faith was necessary for the restoration of the mighty empire.
agreed...I also think he has been demonized by the grey rats for doing what needed to be done
The Order of the Green Hand And hey, thanks for the reply, it means a lot to me. :)
we do our best to try to keep up with comments and reply to as many as we can...especially people who are clearly interested and aren't in our comment section to pick fights with people
I must say, I absolutely love how passionate you guys get when discussing this stuff. I mean, you talk so calmly and measuredly as you cuss up a storm in just the first few seconds. It's visceral and raw. I can almost taste you're quietly seething hatred.
we both have very dry sense's of humor
I had to replay that twice and once for my wife. We cracked up. Ruthless and dry. I absolutely love it.
"Today we are going to talk about the Lying piece of shit Andals" easily the best intro ever
Andals: (exists)
Order of the Greenhand: So anyway we took that personal.
New theory. Catylyn is of andal direct decent
Hoster is an anagram of Others
The Order of the Green Hand theory confirmed
J Lord I know that. I'm just referencing thier cat videos of being a backstabbing lier to everyone
remember who is giving us the information
That can't work Hosue Tully sadly has confirmed intermarriage with House Blackwood
I hope you guys are going to talk about the RAPID decline of the numbers in the Night's Watch!
Like how it was still at full strength when Aegon first landed in Westeros and now just three centuries later, is less than a tenth of that, that can't just be due to fewer wars being fought.
Also congratulations on your engagement!
Wishing you many little Gardeners in the future ;P
This is a great question. I had just assumed that the decline was slow and steady after the vows were changed to make it so they couldn't take wives, but there were 10k brothers when Aegon landed vs 2k when Jon joined up. That is a pretty rapid decline especially if Aegon was somehow clued in on the bigger picture. One guess that comes to mind is that there were a lot less wars under the King's Peace so there we less reason to exile high borns as a condition of peace.
Good video. I know this isn't relevant to the topic, but I think arguably the biggest evidence to the N+A=J theory is that Stark blood is shown to be weak because near all of Ned's children look like Catelyn (hair) but people somehow think that Lyanna's genes overpowered Rhaegar, and Targaryens seem to be very strong blooded, I mean Aegon has to dye his hair to cover it up and his mother is a Martell right, a person whose blood I'd imagine is very strong, they're darker skinned and dark hair and eyed right. So there's no chance that Jon would look exactly like a stark if his mother was one if his father was a Targaryen. If Ashara is the same color pallet as Ned, white brunette, tan at best, then it'd make sense if they're child turned out looking like Jon. It just seems near impossible for Jon to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's IMO, using the same logic that was so crucial in AGoT with "Robert's" children when Jon Arryn and Ned himself was on the case. I don't remember if you ever went into the specifics of this aspect in your NAJ vids before, I just needed to point out it's clear importance either way and showcase why it makes me so skeptical. If you haven't mentioned it in vid go for it, fact check and whatnot I was just thinking out loud. Love you guys, looking forward to more
Valerian blood is the weakest in the story which is why when King Viserarys daughter cheats on her husband its immediately recognizable because all of her kids look like her paramour. Also Arya looks like a Stark and the Tully's are also of first men descent.
The first thing you learn when doing history is that every source has an agenda and cannot be fully trusted. This includes the Andals AND the mythology of the First Men and so forth.
Crystal Swords in the Darkness? I'm liking these Others more and more.
9am meeting cancelled and OTGH posts a video? jackpot!
I like the way you think
Seems like those andals might be a related to old gist b n bloodstone emperor. The freehold was gunning for them right after dealing with gist empire. Smells fishy. Also I remember a quote” the devil greatest trick was convincing the world he didn’t exist”. Seem like what the masters are doing. N congratulations on the engagement!
Thanks Leon
Do you think it's possible that Serwyn of the mirror shield was actually Ser Wyn as a knight
Lying piece of shit andals and their rat minions has go be the best opening ever.
I love it when you guys feed me stuff from the world of ice and Fire. I love you guys for that. You made my day.
Can't wait for the next one!
thank you Ana...we try...part 2 is already more than half scripted
The Order of the Green Hand yeihhh i would save a snack for it!
I shivered at the end, omg. I didn't think of the connection between Andals and the Others. Since we know Maesters are minions of Andals do you think there is a significance that Doran seemed to not to send a Maester with Arianne? Does that make you question the loyalty of Haldon Halfmaester to Aegon?
we have some bombs that are going to be dropped next week...we couldn't get a lot of the material into this one...this is going to end up being two maybe three videos...no comment on Doran, and I personally think that the family Haldon comes from would trump his half-maester status
The Order of the Green Hand thank you for answering. I guess you plan a video about Doran before answering my first question, and I kinda like Haldon so I was worried he will shit on Aegon's future as a King.
we want to take care of the Andals and Rhoynar videos before we get into Doran because he is half Andal and half Rhoynish
The Order of the Green Hand is he that Dangerous? damn. What do you think is main features of Andals btw? I will admit I don't know the prominent Andal houses due to my disinterest but could they be red headed like Tully's or was it Minisa Whent who had red hair and blue eyes?
they seem to have dark hair...their other features is something that has to wait for next week...every single official picture of them shows them with dark hair, and we searched the entire text looking for blonde andals and couldn't find any
I think the ancient Valerians were a branch of First Men. Time and Distance had them evolve differently. So if I'm right, it could be that the Andals saw the First Men, recognize similarities and thus sought to convince the First Men descendants against Valerian's descendants with their propaganda
hm, guys, you dig really deep. respect. comparing to the books the show is just a child play ))))
thanks...agreed
The show can't hold a glass candle to the books
oh, men, I've always hated the andals so much, loved this video. And one has to ask once more what is the long-term plan of the meisters...
thank you Diego...the Maesters are a creepy group of guys...even in the show they seemed to be drawing our attention to it
The Order of the Green Hand in the show, I wasn't creeped out so much as disappointed
Utterly disappointed.
That's what happens when you take a lynchpin character like marwyn and give him the axe
The (implied) connection of Others to Andals in the next video seems far fetched but you always do your homework, so we'll see where that's going.
Just became a patron, had to make an account because you are the first channel I ever contributed to. Watched all your videos several times already. I really hope more people will do the same so you guys can make this into a job. The quality of your production is incredible. The way you illustrate your scripts makes them identical to real e-books. I am a senior in law school and I can wholeheartedly say that your argumentation structure is on point. I hope you don't get frustrated with the lack of views, UA-cam is broken, you have to produce videos daily these days to get views, and also people are idiots so just because you produce high quality content, does not mean you will instantly get a big audience. Lastly, you can always expand your patreon options to include 5/10/25 bucks, your content is certainly worth the money imo.
Thank you so much...we really appreciate that coming from someone who is well on their way to becoming a professional arguer
When it came to theon stark and his ships i always thought that the first men where not seafaring when they settled westeros but learned the art of shipbuilding in the few thousand years between that and him.
And litteraly a few seconds later you mention the first men settling islands... sorry.
and the Iron Born clearly are First Men who were seafaring too
The Order of the Green Hand
Well my personal theory is that they came from the other side of the world, landing on the iron islands while the first men where spreading in westeros thus explaining on how the ironborn claims that they came from the sea and are not related to the first men.
Aren't the Arryns blonde Andals? although its likely they intermarried first men houses like Royce, Corbray and Waynwood.
You are blowing my mind
thanks Robert
Nice video. Can't wait to see what kind of connection you believe exists between the Andals and the Others.
Also what do you think of Tyrion assuming the alias "Hugor Hill"? George certainly chose it for a good reason. Could it be an indication that the Lannisters are more of an Andal family than a First Men one?
Destroyers and usurpers, curse them!
indeed
The Bullshit of the Andals, Part 1 of however long they were allowed to fool the world.
So if the Andals were in Braavos and you have found some evidence of an Andal connection with the Others and you think the Faceless Men are a religous order worshiping the Others do you think the Andals had anything to do with the construction of the temple of the Many Faced God in Braavos?
the answer to that will have to wait til next week
A 20min video and this is only the first part...Great to hear!!!Keep em coming you two. We need these videos. God knows when George will finally decide to drop the book on us. I just hope he's not waiting until the show is over now that he separated himself from them.
-thanks d&d :-(
thanks Frank...part 2 is already largely scripted
The first Arryns were Andals and have blonde hair
Funny, the only decent maesters were both in the North -- at the Wall and Winterfell, no less. *where's my tinfoil hat, I feel a conspiracy comin' onnnn*
Lmao stop fetishizing the Valyrians. I doubt they fought with the Andals just coz they believed in religious freedom. Theocratic cities like Norvos and Lorath were also Valyrian colonies
I knew you'd open it with the Lying Piece of Shit Andals!😁 The best phrase since Damn Elves.
that one is up there with our "when Catelyn plays the Game of Thrones, people die" and batshit sisters lines that we like to have a little fun with
Yeah, the batshit sisters was awesome too😄
Grey rat is an insult to Greirat :(
Also, abiding and prospering are two totally separate states of being. For a scholar describing the history after the fact, it’s quite possible for the Andals to have abided in their hills for thousands of years, but to have prospered and amassed most of their power in the couple hundred years before they started expanding.
Someday you'll sit on the throne and the truth will be what you make it. -cersei
POS grey sheep indeed....they are on point with the "story tellers" of current times. Nice job with warning us of the abrupt ending, 😉 looking forward to how you will tie this in the video next week. I am certain they are very involved in what I believe was a direct betrayal that "made" the "others" & not necessarily how HBO spun it. Loving the earlier upload makes the work day more bearable! 💚✋
the Andals are some creepy mofos...there is no reason to lie about your history if you aren't hiding something terrible
The Order of the Green Hand that is not necessarily true
They could be hiding something mundane and boring and hope to sell it as something less so.
If they had sold us king Arthur as historical fact that doesn't necessarily mean that its hiding King Bongo the baby eater.
It just means it could be hiding a cannibal king.
“So the Andals in Westeros claim that slavery is seen as an abomination by their Religion, yet they themselves have a long standing tradition of being slave owners.” Its the typical “Rules for thee but not for me” schtick that you see in the three Abrahamic Religions.
If I can play devil’s advocate for a minute, prior to the founding of Volantis, the Rhoynish were a significant buffer with their armies and massive fleets hampering the Valyrians, as you mentioned in the video, dragon riders were one thing but land armies faced tough resistance and let’s not forget that even when the Rhoynish were more or less a broken people, they still managed to gather a fleet large enough to evacuate a significant portion of their population, so they can’t have been an insignificant naval power prior to that. After settling Volantis, the Rhoynish were pretty much bottled up and the Valyrians were much freer to raid all the way across to the west coast of Essos and up to Andalos, so I can see how the founding of Volantis could have had an impact on how threatening the Valyrians were to the Andals. [/DA] .
Thoroughly enjoy your content and I’m really looking to the next part! N + A = J ftw! =) .(Sorry for the long comment)
You guys are so savage I love it
there's no point of spending the amount of time we spend making videos if we're going to hold back
GRRM really wanted us readers to learn how to work with historical sources in real life!
Something tells me you don't like the andals. Can't quite put my finger on it though.
"There would be a few andals with blonde hair, right?"
Jorah the _______
has black hair in the books...and he's from a Northern House, likely making him of First Men descent
Nice try
Hey do you guys think that people like Craster played a bigger part of the others returning? It makes sense that other free folk also sacrificed children as well right?
he certainly wasn't trying to stop them
the andals did nothing wrong
the seven not tree gods ok?
praise Hugor
How one of their kings who was crowned by the 7 is Hugor of the Hill..... that reminds me of Tyrion who calls himself Hugor Hill while in Essos
Alex Krause he took the name from Andal history he says so himself
Pure genius! I would have never thought this deep about the lies of the faith! I would love to read some of your original work. I know you have some! You two are way too good at this! You got a fan for life! I’m absolutely enthralled. I drive boats for a living and listen to ASOIF lore and ideas for like 12 hours a day. I’ve listen to countless hours of other you tubers and again I must say you two are head and shoulders above everything else I’ve listened to. You should collaborate with Ideas of Ice And Fire. They have a great grasp of this lore as well. Keep up the hard work guys!
Thank you so much. We just do our best to try to figure out what’s going on. And Quinn is probably our best friend in the community. We’ve done 6 or 7 live-streams and podcasts together
Awesome!
I'm so confused and I don't know if it's because I haven't read enough of the books yet or need to watch this video again, but I can't wait till next week!
this is a confusing topic because most of the information we get on the history of this world comes from the Andals and they seemingly lie about everything...it took us months to compile enough instances where we know they lied to begin making videos about it
The more videos the better.
Part 2 is coming soon
Nice
Don't the Arryns have blonde hair and the most Andal blood? I could be wrong
we never got a description of Jon Arryn...Sweetrobin has dark hair and his mother is a red head though so it would seem that he would have gotten his dark hair from his father
Ah yes Littlefinger...
a.k.a Petyr Balish...
a.k.a. Secret baby daddy of bat shit milk monster
a.k.a STONE DEMON SHITBAG!
The Order of the Green Hand the andals description in Bran VIi The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests. Per ASOIAF wiki the vale has the purest Andal blood.
Spoiler.............,,,,,........
In alanyne I,
Ser Harrold Hardyng looked every inch a lord-in-waiting; clean-limbed and handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle. Men old enough to have known Jon Arryn in his youth said Ser Harrold had his look, she knew. He had a mop of sandy blond hair, pale blue eyes, an aquiline nose.
What a great way to wake up! Some great history of my favorite world.
Andals are secretly Rheagar Targaryen! ;)
haha...I can't believe we didn't think of that
So.. Did the fall of the dragons come about when Targaryen blood was infested with that of the Andals?
The Dragonsbane's grandmother was an Arryn and they have heavy amounts of Andal blood. I know around that time dragons started waning after the Dance. I don't know about the timelines, there may be cases before this
Preston Jacobs makes a good case for Mendelian inheritance /dragon hatching and why the females (e.g Rhaenyra could be exempt)
ua-cam.com/video/4aoFCZGr3LY/v-deo.html
George placed an annotation on the line where Ned discovers that every single Baratheon has black hair that states that genetics don't play a role in the story
Even though AFFC uncovered some of the corruption within the citadel, I think maesters are generally a good thing for the realm. They provide means of communication and are qualified healers and teachers.
I see two root causes for the citadel's flaws:
The faith of the seven, since that piece of crap oppressive religion wields an enormous influence both from the outside as an institution and from the inside because most of the maesters were brought up in the faith and are unlikely to overcome biases.
The second problem is their monopol and therefore their power over history and knowledge, which is aided by their internal power structure.
I don't know how to solve the first one other than fire and blood, but the founding of additional citadels would distribute power and knowledge. They could specialize on different fields and acolytes could travel between them and learn more about the realm they serve. As possible locations I'd suggest Lannisport, Gulltown and White Harbor, as they are major cities, someplace in Dorne, preferably in the northern mountains and near the coast, and Harrenhal. I'd avoid King's Landing because of the alchemists, capital politics, and because it's also the capital of the faith of the seven.
So, just some of my thoughts, congrats for reading all of this.
Nice, I always look forward to your videos, the production quality is so high!
EDIT: 19:37 - 20:00 Oh man, can't wait for the next one!!!
Thank you John
we felt like we didn't get to most of our really good stuff and wanted to give you guys something big to think about until next week
That escalated really quickly
yeah...Brick killed a guy
I personally think that the Faith of the Seven is a parallel of Christianity. "The seven who are one" sounds a lot like "the three who are one" concept of trinity. Their Septs are like churches, their High Septon acts like the Pope. Septons, like Christian priests, take vows of celibacy. Their traditions of knighthood and such also parallel the legends of the Christian knights in medieval times. The Faith Militant is like a mixture of the Inquisitions and orders like the Knights Templar. At the same time I would say that the Faith of the Lord of Light parallels Islam. One God whose followers hate idol worship and are big on proselytizing their faith. They live mainly in the Free Cities of the East, which in their wealth and knowledge and slave customs parallel the Arabic cities like Baghdad and Damascus in the medieval times
I think the Maesters represent the Record Keeping part of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Priests were the main people who could read or write in Europe. The First Universities in Europe that taught Medicine, Law, Rhetoric, and Religion for payment were Catholic Cathedrals. Plus, Maesters take vows of Celibacy.
Amazing job guys, you have some of the most incredible ideas and then flesh them out so well it seems like you have a secret book with all the answers! After you document everything so well I go back to the text and look, it was there all along!!! Your observation skill and dot connecting abilities are off the charts! I'm looking forward to your next video! I'm still patiently awaiting for your CoTF series that has been on the back burner, someday soon hopefully!
Thank you so much Jim...we are going to get back to talking about the CotF soon enough
Ok you showed that Andal histroy is full of lies (as is any history, because history is always biased and people like to change it so their ancestors look better) but why is this important? Why do you hate the Andals? It's not like they are that much different from any other civilization
+ I always thought that the first men alraedy had Maesters
The first men definitely created the Citadel but there are no references to maesters existing under the first men and if they did, they were of a very different sort. We don’t hate Andals. They’re fictional characters. We just don’t trust a word they say and the things they lie about point towards a sinister agenda
Was Jon aryn not blonde in his youth? That house has Valyrian blood sure but also pretty Andal. Also Lan the clever is believed by many to be an Andal adventurer so there may be a few prominent blonde Andals. I may well be wrong and obviously trust in your research.
Lann the Clever is from the Age of Heroes...we never get a description of Jon Arryn but his son has dark hair and his wife was a red head and no one ever brings that up as impossible
The only reason I thought Jon Arryn had blonde hair is because in WOW Alayne 1 it is stated that As a younger man he resembled Harrold Hardyng, who has blue eyes, blonde hair, and an aquiline nose. I guess you don’t need exact hair color to resemble a close relative though.
The Arryns have a lot of First Men and Targaryen blood too.
I found an interesting item on CivilizationEx that Andals was running from (Raise Power of Valyians) like The Rhoymar did at the end of their war with the Valyians. They ran to Westeros to take over the whole of Westeros, but the North stop them in their tracks. Point is the Andals never fought the Valyians they use The Rhoymar as a buffer.
none of it makes any sense
yes does why fight a stronger enemy if you find weaker enemy one and take over their country. Also place your religion in front of the original one they had.
Literally just only watched the into, the first words that registered were lying piece of shit andals lmao. Already a like.
intro*
Gotta love the hungry wolf..bringing it to the andals..
Seven Andal Blessings to the Order of the Green Hand.
May the Father grant you the strength and stamina to search for truth in George's sacred texts and the wisdom to know when you've found it.
May the Mother grant you the compassion and understanding of those around you as you undertake the enormous time consuming work of bringing clarity to A Song of Ice and Fire. May you in turn find it in your heart to forgive Catelyn Stark of her many unintentional transgressions.
May the Warrior slay the internet trolls that plague you as well as the idiots who give you a thumbs down on your videos. May you be given strength to defend yourself from the hordes of well meaning but misguided R=L=J theorists.
May the Smith grant you eloquence and clairty of thought when making these videos and remove all technical glitches. May the smith also shove a firecracker up the rear end of your favorite writer to get him moving again.
May the Maid guide your personal relationship.
May the Crone grant you the ability to discern if what you're reading is true or if it is a red herring.
May the Stranger escort Dan and Dave's version of this story to the Seven Hells and may we all be left alone from the Stranger's touch for thirty years to enjoy a remake of the series created after Dreams of Spring comes out.
I knew I had to subscribe when I saw a whole playlist of videos called “Lying POS andals”😂😂
40 andals disliked this video hahahaah
Oh my God, these videos are addictive. You are so eloquent and badass!
awww
Faith of the seven = Catholicism
Old god's = pre Christian euro paganism
or as George said, Medieval Catholic Church with a fantasy twist
Long time sub, first time to comment. I love your channel!
thank you Tammy
I agree with a ton of your points. Its just so hard to prove one way or another because the histories are written through a lens of bias. Liked the video, thanks for making it.
I was rewatching this and waiting for you to mention this exception to your dark haired Andals theory, and then it didn't come.
House Arryn is known for having blond hair traditionally and being the most pureblooded Andal family of them all (i.e. inbred). Jon Arryn was said to look much like Harry the Heir who could be described as tall, fair, and blond.
If House Arryn is blonde then why doesn’t anyone think it’s weird that sweetrobin has redhead and blonde genes and has dark hair? The Arryns have also married Targaryens
Because people in westeros are stupid that’s why.
Please research this dead guy, so random and specific.
Clash of Kings. - Arya IV
It seemed a peaceful place . . . until Koss spotted the dead man. "There, in the reeds." He pointed, and Arya saw it. The body of a soldier, shapeless and swollen. His sodden green cloak had hung up on a rotted log, and a school of tiny silver fishes were nibbling at his face. "I told you there was bodies," Lommy announced. "I could taste them in that water."
When Yoren saw the corpse, he spat.
"Dobber, see if he's got anything worth the taking. Mail, knife, a bit o' coin, what have you." He spurred his gelding and rode out into the river, but the horse struggled in the soft mud and beyond the reeds the water deepened. Yoren rode back angry, his horse covered in brown slime up to the knees. "We won't be crossing here. Koss, you'll come with me upriver, look for a ford. Woth, Gerren, you go downstream. The rest o' you wait here. Put a guard out."
Dobber found a leather purse in the dead man's belt. Inside were four coppers and a little hank of blond hair tied up with a red ribbon.
The Andals are based on the vandals and the various goths. None of them left -any- architectual landmark. Mostly because they build in wood. Regarding iron, the Rhoynar knew to use iron, but like the Dornish, they mostly used copper or bronze. The Andals can actually be credited for full suits of iron and mass use of iron. The Andals who did settle Westeros can also be credited with opposing slavery since they are the dominant culture in Westeros and Westeros is the only place besides Braavos where slavery is illegal, and they didn't take the first men as slaves. Building in stone isn't really harder than building in wood considering that nails didn't exist. It is, however, cheapier and faster. Stone is common everywhere, wood is not. Generally, historically, when people can choose, they choose wood.
Completely love ❤️ the vid. But....... "escape the religious TOLERANCE" sounds like grey rat words.
Good so many dumb arguments made in this video.
1. No buildings = Andals never built anything, maybe it's the fact that the map sucks and is so lacking? Outside the vassal cities of Volantis we have nothing more than more Free cities and Rhoynish ruins in Western Essos.
2. They didn't slaughter any more than anyone else, the simple fact they abolished thralldom is a sign of their advancement, at least the ones that went to Westeros.
3. The story doesn't making sense means it's all a propaganda? LOL
4. Maybe one should include the fact that Andals were a big group with possibly different religions and practices?
5. The "religious freedom" of the Valyrian, yes freedom to pray any god while you work to death in mines. WOW.
Only the early Andals of the Vale were intolerant, the other slowly assimilated First men societies with their migration, especially in the Reach and Westerlands.
I seriously hope this is 100% a joke and not an actual theory, but who knows.
Harrold Hardyng is said to look like jon arryn when he was young and the arryn are descended from the andals. so some of them were blonde.cause harold hardying is blond. also original winged knight rode a falcon which also seems to indicate that he was a skin changer of some sort.i dont agree with you guys vilifying the andals.
That shit was funny. "Following their trail of bullshit"😆 most ASOIAF videos are super serious
11:32 I don’t think this statement is 100% factual. The Arryns had blond hair before good ol’ Lysa Tully got mixed into the gene pool. Regardless of this other members of the family like the Hardyings have blond hair and Harold Arryn/Hardying was described as looking just like Jon Arryn in his youth.
they might have blondish hair, but they have a lot of Targ blood...they must also have dark hair in their family though...if they didn't everyone in the Vale would be talking about Sweetrobin's dark hair and looking at his red head mother and wondering how this happened
The Order of the Green Hand Fair point
I think some points brought up, like the Andals originally enslaving people despite them now claiming to be against slavery, could just be dismissed as the Andals changing culturally over the generations (after all, they did go from being nomads to a sedentary society during that timespan). This is supported by the fact that the Andals really were against slavery by the time they conquered Westeros.
did you happen to see the next video in the playlist? "Wherever the First Men sought to resist, they were gound underfoot, reduced to thralls, or driven out." TWOIAF Thrall is another word for slave
Fair enough, though even then they likely ditched the practice soon after settling in Westeros and as they gradually united politically.
0:11 - "The lying, piece of shit Andals" ... that escalated quickly.
Just a point about the historical comparison about sacrifices. This seems to be similar to when the Romans recorded sacrifice by the Germanics to their tribal gods. But that turned out not to be true and either a slur against them or a misunderstanding of certain funeral rites.
There is evidence that there is at least one blond or at least sandy-haired Andal house. Harry Hardyng is described as having sandy hair and is said to have the Arryn look thus "the young falcon" nickname. It seems likely that House Arryn, described as a pure blood Andal house has blond or sandy hair. Of course, Sweet Robin has brown hair but his father is probably Littlefinger so that shouldn't be a consideration. The seed is strong after all.
sweetrobin's mother is a red head...if his father was a blonde, there would have been rampant speculation that he isn't his don't you think? or at the very least, don't you think that if dark hair didn't run in their family the rumors would have been all over the place...they were in court at KL, where there is little to no doubt that it would have been brought up
It came up. Why do you think Jon Arryn and Stannis started looking for all of Robert's bastards? Why do you think he was looking at the genealogy of all the Great Houses? But generally, Robert Baratheon's court was filled with young men outside of Jon Arryn who probably went grey before he ever came to King's Landing. Is Pycelle going to say something? How much interaction did Varys have with the Arryns during Aerys II's reign?
Alternatively, look at it this way. Why did Lysa flee King's Landing and go to the Vale? Why was Robert Baratheon prepared to name Jaime Lannister Warden of the East? And why did he refuse to tell Ned why he wanted to do so? Or, more simply, why the hell would Littlefinger kill his benefactor and biggest ally on the small council?
I thought the Arryns were “the purest of Andles” and they have sandy blonde hair.
Also I was thinking to prove your point while I’m not sure if the Mormont’s are Andle don’t the Dothraki call Jorah “Jorah of the Andle” and he is a short swarthy black haired slaver. Could be an in story parallel about how the Andles really were.
the Arryns are not pure Andal...they have married Royces several times
We actually don't know how Arryns like Aemma, Elbert, Denys, Jasper looked like. Robert Arryn has brown hair and no one questions his parentage in the books.