I like the idea that mageor being actually an alright man but through the faiths manipulation was turned into the most villainous man in history. Cause he crushed the Faiths army.
You are the only channel to challenge the "truth" written in the books. Most channels just repeat what we are told. You guys however challenge what is told and see the inconsistencys told by the book and weed out the lies. Also funny how you showed catylyn as the monster she is and magor as a good guy for his cruel nature. Sucks about annys and magor. Would have made a good dual leadership
I absolutely love this comment! And thank you. I'm waiting for someone to think I am crazy for hating Catelyn and respecting Maegor/having a girl crush on Maegor because he's a bad ass. It's like the story Syrio Forel tells Arya, people see what they expect to see. The Sealord called the cat "she" so all the guys who came for the audition to be the First Sword assumed it was a girl cat, when Syrio tells Arya it was very clearly a tomcat. George is a genius.
Jason Sizzler I love Preston Jacob. I see his as bringing more of a sci fi element to pre existing "magic story" I see his points and like to believe some acts are bot magic. The show has a magical elemenr but George said it would be wild and uncontrollable or something like that. I meant that these two go against the norm similar to Preston but in a different way. Every other channel besides these two and a couple others just restate the same thing over and over again. Even if its right. Most people dont look into the holes in the story which are left thier to have people ask questions. That's what I meant to clear it up. Thanks for reading
I'm not fully convinced by your Andal theory but I 100% agree that the maesters are against old ways, dragons, first man, house targaryen, magic and alchemy. Many ppl think that as magic was fading so were the dragons but I personally think that the maesters have been poisoning every egg and dragon they had access to. I'm as well suspecting that everyone who dies from the "bad belly" was poisoned.
With regards to the High Septon taking a week to realize resisting Aegon was probably a bad idea, I always assumed he (the High Septon) or his brother (lord Hightower) immediately realized this, but also knew the people probably wouldn't accept it, so by having the High Septon "pray" for 7 days and claiming the gods said it was okay, they had cover for not fighting Aegon.
Agreed. Maegor was victim of being a transitional ruler in a dinasty that got cucked hard by the hightowers , same thing with the dance years later. If you guys read sons of the dragon attentively, you will see that both aenya and his queen, even if they were "softer", they wanted maegor close by
An alternative to Maegor being crowned would’ve been to declare Aegon son of Aenys as king, with Maegor as Hand and Protector of the Realm, since Aegon was still in his minority. Maegor could then have worked to save his niece and nephew and maintain Targaryen rule in Westeros. Thoughts ?
I believe in God and I have to say I am disappointed with our predecessors. The church the Romans controlled was a force of tyranny and greedy money grabbers for like over 1000 years in Europe.
No. Just like how some Popes are more political than religious, some are more religious than political. Same with imams, rabbis, Dalai Lamas, Ayatollahs, and whatever else is out there. Sometimes, politics IS religion, as was the case with the Romans and Greeks.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 Except that Roman Church uplifted the Europeans. Prior to them forcibly baptizing everyone, Europe after Rome was Somalia with white people.
Just goes to show how dangerous it is to house faith and learning in the same place. All power will seek to consume the next closest power that is consumable. Love the content you two. Keep it up.
if Visenya and Maegor weren’t there, House Targaryen would have perished after Aenys died. seriously. his son Aegon (albeit too young) would just be a pawn of the lords and other pious rebels. it was easy for Visenya and Maegor to have the throne even without waiting for Aenys’s death, yet they did not anyways. thumbs up for this channel!
So this makes me wonder if the "Targaryan Conquest" itself might have been the result of a conspiracy, if not a counter-conspiracy, especially when we look at who came out on top. The great houses actually seem to solidify their control and the Targaryan rule brings stability. The Starks, Aryns and Lanisters keep their domains intact and can solidify peace. Also, the Starks and Aryns who seemed to get drawn into conflict by their vassals have a pretense for a lasting peace agreement. Furthermore all three of them lose the potential threat of an Iron Islands controlled Riverlands along their borders. The Gardeners and Dundareons (who fought each other over the Dornish Marches constantly) are both replaced with more peaceable leadership. Also the Tyrell get to ascend from just being the power behind the throne in the Reach to the actual power in the Reach. Picking the Targaryians, as outsiders, to unite the realms also makes sense, since if any of the existing great houses had tried on their own, the resulting jealousy and infighting would quickly undo that work, as we have seen since Robert's Rebellion. House Horae and the Ironborn, House Gardener, and House Dundareon were some of the biggest losers, but not the only ones. By far in the long run the Faith of the Seven was also a pretty big loser. Losing their rights over trials and the faith militant. If we consider that their might have been a behind-the-scenes power struggle going on in the Reach between the Hightowers and Tyrells, with the Gardeners as merely puppet-rulers or figureheads for some time it starts to make a bit of sense. if the "Oldtown conspiracy" between the Hight Tower, Starry Sept and Citadel was a force they had to not only contend with but compete with for power, they might have decided to look elsewhere for support. When we consider that the most powerful of the three players in the conspiracy (the Starry Sept) is also the biggest loser, it's entirely plausible that the loss of power of the faith after the Targaryan conquest wasn't an unintended side-effect, but in fact a goal. And even though the faith continues to be influential, the High Septon has been moved to Kings Landing, all the way on the other side of Westeros from the Citadel and the High Tower, and capable of being influenced by the crown, who is at least capable of basically installing a High Septon by the time of the main series.
I was just rereading acok and in the last chapter while maester luwin is dying he crawls to the heart tree in the Godswood, considering he has a valyrian steel chain he has to be well versed in his understanding of the dark arts/old powers. Is the reason he crawls all the way to the weirwood to give his dying blood to the many faced god?
Great video! As always. Something I discovered while re-reading the last quarter of TWOIAF companion books for the 8th time 😂.. The Maesters (or whoever is acting historian at the time) speak of other species of humanoids having trouble conceiving with humans from other areas (several other regions, actually) but they never credit the Targaryens as having the same issues - instead they only condemn their incestual ways. Which, from all of the miscarriages and still borns recorded in the Targaryen family histories it’s apparent that this also affected these fair haired and indigo eye’d people. The highly knowledgeable information on how females of certain cultures can’t breed with men of differing cultures but the men of the same race are capable of breeding with women of different cultures is eerie. WHY DO THE HISTORIANS KNOW THIS? Has someone been keeping records of cross-breeding different species? And if so, how was this info acquired? And why do they call it breeding, as if referring to animals instead of people? Why do the histories recognize this problem in other people’s but not the Targaryens? Seems fishy, right?
I wonder if the faith knew Ceryse was barren and a way to keep the Maegor from producing heirs? Also I’ve always wondered why Maegor was called the cruel given Dany’s seeming admiration (it’s what made me start questioning who the sources of information are)
I never want your videos to end! 30 minutes goes by so fast. Loved the insight here. Your theories are always backed with text and I appreciate that. Hope to hear more about his hand in building the Red Keep in the future. Well done!
The way the Hightowers treated Aegon the Conqueror seems to be paralleled in the way they dealt with the Oakenfist... lavishing him with praise and titles (admiral) and then suggesting it would be fitting for him to go and deal with the stepstones and the iron born. Meanwhile, the Hightowers main way to fight them was to get them to fight each other. Thanks Otto, for doing such a masterful job of this... but he wasn't the only one.
Watching this series is like a breath of fresh air... from a dragon. You guys are on fire! You really do bring a new perspective to A Song of Ice and Fire. I would have never thought there was a possibility that Maegor wasn't as cruel as his title would like you to believe. I particularly like the Daenerys quote at the end of the video because I find it very interesting Dany says she is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel when she's not. She's the blood of Aegon and Aenys. But what if those lying piece of shit Andals were lying to us about that too? What if Daenerys really is the descended from the bloodline of Maegor, Aegon and also Visenya? If you think about it, she is the first Targaryen to successfully hatch dragons. I always found it interesting the World of Ice and Fire dropped hints Rhaenys had other lovers. That presents the possibility the Targaryen bloodline as we know it does not descend from Aegon the Conqueror. What if Rhaenys had an Andal lover who got her pregnant with Aenys? I also find it very odd and convenient Rhaenys eventually ends up missing/dead. So that means the Andals already had the Iron Throne as well which could explain why the High Septon rejected Visenya's proposal to have Maegor and Aenys' daughter marry. The Andals did not want the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and House Targaryen to continue which it would through Maegor. Isn't it also strange Maegor had the most trouble conceiving whereas Aenys (who may not have the blood of Aegon) had no trouble at all? Did the High Sepon know Ceryse was infertile? Perhaps the introduction of the Andal genes in the Targaryen bloodline is what killed the dragons too....
Gel Rose no doubt via use of the Citadel they'd discovered how Targs were able to pass on the 'blood' through incest, something even a mix child of targ and andal blood can't possess, regardless of how Targ they appeared to be. So they used it against them in the Game of Thrones, where their experience in the 'wheel politics' gave them an advantage. They knew that to keep their rule, the Targs would have to intermarry other houses and appease them. And they eventually would weaken - and their dragons with them, lets not forget that back then magics were still accepted and studied. It was a long endgame but inevitably would be in their favor, as the Targs would NEED the septons for the people. As long as they didn't push too hard right away theyd slip thru the cracks til it was time.
Fuck yes! Maegor the Cruel is the one king who actually broke the seven, the faith, and the other for the next hundred years. You guys have encouraged me and inspired me to continue working on my own novel. I've been working on it for 12 years, and finally it has taken shape.
Also, if we're discussing TSOTD, shouldn't we be citing more from this story? (Noticed this comes later in the video.) The faith didn't turn on Aeny's initially, while he was being crowned in Oldtown, some in Westeros were already plotting rebellion, citing that Westeros needed a warrior not a dreamer as it's king. And reminiscing back to days before the conquest where "a knight could carve out lands and riches with just a sword, a horse and good men. And didn't need a Kings leave to tax and condemn their own smallfolk". Loudest amongst his detractors were Visenya, stating that Aenys himself knew he wasn't strong enough to rule, or why else would he gift Blackfyre to his brother Maegor. Then came the rebellions of Harren The Red, whom killed Lord Gargon The Guest and his retainers. And the Vulture King in Dorne (Dorne didn't rebell, they weren't initially a part of the Seven Kingdoms, not until Daeron I anyway, I believe.) The faith turning on Aenys came later, when he married his son, Aegon II, to his daughter Rhaena, the sister and brother marriage that the faith condemned. Only after this did the expulsion of Septon Murmison from the faith, and the "King Abomination" title come. They also didn't recognize Aegon II as the Prince Of Dragonstone & the heir to Aenys.
This is a little unrelated but I love how these theories always remind me of my history lessons of conflicts between the pope/church and the king. Or the missionaries of old. (In my case mostly german not english history, but it still fits remarkably well not only to english history).
I've listened/watched this 3 times and it blows me away! I mean, all your videos seem to whether I ascribe to that particular theory or not (usually I do). The amount to research and dot connecting you do has made book readers like me see the true genius of GRRM come to life like no one else possibly can, save for Ilio and Linda. (Do you know the horse that changes gender?) Love your work! Please keep it up!
30 mins of greatness BUT now I know why it taking so long for WoW . every time Gorge see one of your videos he's reminded of all the world building he did in the books .and the end lees ways WoW can go .THANKS all in fun love your insight as always
They were terrified of the Ironborn. And its telling that the Targaryens never considered extinguishing the Rabid Vikings, preferring to keep them around.
I personally think the reason the other southern kingdoms converted because of financial necessity, Aegon took the Reach and the Westerlands , the 2 most prosperous kingdoms, in the Conquest. Would be real easy for the common followers of the Faith of the 7 to boycot any trade with followers of the old gods instead of the grey rats doing missionary work, they'd be very easy to dispose of and let's be honest.... if a Pias man comes along and says:" You must convert yadayadayada" most people would rebel or just not give a crap but soon as it interferes with your food or livelihood (trade) people tend to choose the path of least resistance.
Quick question: Why do you guys think the Citadel continues the custom of locking would be Maesters in a dark room w/the glass candles? They clearly have an anti-magic sentiment, so what's the purpose of demonstrating some things can't be explained? Is that procedure just grandfathered in? Is it to give the false appearance of free thinking?
Ashley of Naath - it's to show the Maesters that magic is indeed dead. It was once for them to see the wonders of it, but since Magic died (most likely because of them), they continued the tradition to show the Maesters what a foolish path they would be on if they continued to study for that chain.
Ashley of Naath I think that it serves three purposes 1. Measters who tried to light it but failed can be convinced that magic is dead and be kept under watch. 2. Measters who did not even try to do it are known as loyal. 3. Those who succeed can be killed of quickly.
Aenys was a king for peace, Maegor was a king bred for war. Perhaps Maegor was the king that the targaryens needed to continue, even if his methods where very...questionable. It was Aenys stubborness regarding a marriage(?) that lead to the Faith denounce him as "King Abomination" and rile up certain lords and the smallfolk against him.
While waiting for the wind of winter to blow, the in-depth analysis provided by you guys is the next best thing. Thank you for putting in this labor of love. I know it's love, but I also know it's a great deal of work to create all of this beautiful work. Thank you for doing it and sharing it. I know that this work isn't the same as writing, but you guys should consider, either together, or as individuals, writing fiction. At least explore the possibility. If you're anything like me, that probably seems completely overwhelming, but you guys have a talent for details and you both communicate well, which would translate to writing I believe. Anyway, just thanks :). I look forward to every new nugget of analysis from you guys. You've given me hours of free entertainment and a greater understanding of this work we all adore. Love. Gratitude.
I have to say , has anyone else noticed that anytime a Hightower or andle was married to the first men or those in the north something was amiss? I think that Magors forced wife was one of the worse choices. Had he married his sister/niece? (got confused) then he would have had children. Also, don't forget it was an Andle family who Ned was made to marry right? Also Jorha was given a Hightower as a reward..uh did he want her or was he forced to marry her? / We know that there is highly specious activity from the past that makes me think, Starks was from First men and children of the forest.) We know the Danes were not Andles but part of the first men (maybe more important then we all know). I would love to see some kind of timeline, like that of (Ned+Ashara),, that shows when the first men had to fight the Andles and what houses were forced into marriages with those called the Andles? We know from real History and from the Books so far, that marriages were always used in a political way to conect two houses and make them more powerful in there world.
I have always felt more respect for the First Men and Valyrians than the Andals but I have just begun to check out this new series I see you have on the Andals.
Miss you guys and being enlightened by your videos. Hope everything is fine with you both. I guarantee you I'm not complaining, no problem on waiting, because I know the quality is worth. I'm just worried if anything happened. (Ok, I also admit that I'm missing my fix!😆)
and now, the zealots are armed and dangerous... thanks Cersei... I'm torn between wanting Cersei to loose the trial vs Ser Strong exterminating the faith militants
D&d grow stronger as the cast pay gets longer and the number of episodes shorter first they misportray your favorite characters and then they sent their brain dead fans against you
So besides the stability of conforming to the region's most popular religion,why did the Targarians abandon their ancient gods so easily? (besides naming their dragons after their gods.) Did they see the Doom as their gods abandoning them? Also it's said that the Targarians left to Dragon Stone just a few decades before the Doom. Bringing thier family,staff,slaves etc..So why would the secrets of Valerian Steel have died out. Wouldn't the Targarians have brought their personal blacksmiths and pyromancers with them? Yes the steel would still be rare,but it should still be able to be made.(atleast as of the time of Aegons conquest.) The Targarians should be even richer and more powerful,because theoretically they should have had a monopoly on the steel. I also find it hard to believe that their family is the only ones to survive.. not one other family was off of the main Valerian island..no other family was off overseeing their vast free holds around essos? Just like the Andals the Targarians story seems pretty shifty as well.
oh my fucking god yes, i just got back from university and to be wuite honest i thought you just decided to skip this week and finding out there's a video from you guys just made my day! More lies by the andals to think about....
You are the only theorists I watch that make my head hurt, but I come back for more - happily. Great video as always. I gotta go back and start this series again. No surprise, 'cause I've done it before with your other series. LOL! 😊❤️
could the Church of the Seven be related to the Church of Starry Wisdom, & both to the Manyfaced God of Braavos & the Children? all relate do Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep.
in Lovecraftian mythos, it's known, among others, as The Faceless God, & its cult is had at the Church of the Starry Wisdom. GRRM might have taken it as an inspiration.....
Fabulous content as always. "Now....So......Well...." I always know a real pearl of wisdom is soon to follow the artful narrative pause. Have a beautiful thanksgiving greenhands, love QOT.🌹
Maegor sounds like a tougher version of Tywin if that is possible. Basically if the Starks were writing the history of the books they would call Tywin something like Tywin the butcher or the cruel.
Idk i feel like the starks would be fair in their accounts, and they would focus on real events, not false flags or false info xP That's the feelin i get tho
Long live the order of the green hand, keepers of Westeros's true secrets. Love the series guys, you've really created quite an impressive web of intrigue with these videos, its actually pretty shocking how well they all tie in together. G RR M himself would be proud.
Chills guys!! I’ve got chills! One of my favourite series yet! I have a few I love love love and it’s up there Amazing work! You two really compliment one another. It would be so cool to see you guys at work Can’t wait for the next!
Driving me nuts seeing new video this morning and having to wait all day to finally watch congrates great video I think it's interesting that Jahaerys the Conciliator had many of his children sent to the faith and the ones that didn't died, pirates, falling from horse race drunk which seems likely fleeing being chased after yelling stuff that was chalked up to her being drunk, alleged summer fever death which since not fact likely poison, one went hunting a week later complained of a stitch in his side and then died whatever a stitch is Aemon= pirates Baelon= hunting side stitch Daella= child bearing married 80ac death 82ac which her baby to Rodrick Arryn became Queen Viserra= "drunk horse race" Gael= disappearing from court to allegedly die of summer fever given to the citadel Veagon, and Maegelle, Saera were all given to the faith 9/13 of his children lived to adulthood and Alyssa not much known it's interesting about Archmaester Vaegon is it says he held "The Ring and rod and Mask of yellow gold when he became Archmaester " that's the only time you hear about those relating to maesters it's crazy how big mask are in this story and how well it ties to ritual mask history and lore of are world as well as mimeing if you have never looked into that it's fascinating check out Jacques Lecoq and his teaching style with mask it will get you on a train of research which is surprisingly similar sounding to the faceless men
Saw yall on ideas of ice and fire... loved it!!! BTW thanks to yall and Preston and IOIAF, I will not be watching season 8 of the show. The show is shit and I held on too long
You might as well finish it though it's going to be like 6 episodes I think after putting in however many hours you have watching Seven Seasons worth of episodes have any you can probably manage to squeeze out 6 more. Might as well be a completionist
Ser Tr3ces Pieces Fuck the show. Ever since the damn show everyone has been saying Stannis the Mannis burned his daughter. She is at castle black. Like Stannis the Mannis needs to burn a little girl to win battles. Defeated Victarion Greyjoy and the iron fleet. Held storms end for a year. Took dragonstone from targaryens. Defeated 100,000 wildlings with 5,000 men. The greatest military commander of all time.
Vildan Atasever as Genna Lannister? Yes! And my man Maegor was vilified at age three! Three years old Maegor who begin his training with swords was said to be "cut cats" And First men Houses Royce/Tarly/Baratheon supporting their King ♥ and showing POS Andals who is the boss. Maegor should marry Rhaena sigh then he would have sons and daughters of himself. Visenya was right to call Aenys on his bullshit. Vhagar would show them who has the power - Visenya saving Aenys actually from being poisoned? And being framed for his death? Maegor first of his name with his iron throne. Omg I just come from school and wrote comments as I watched lol. I love you OotGH don't leave us without your videos. And of course Daenerys Targaryen the Slayer of Lies would choose Maegor over Aenys lol, she is a strong queen who deals with Ghis and their cruel slavery, Harpy and their murders - let's see in sixth book what kind of Septa, Ashara were to Aegon.
Woohyun Fan there is evidence that it was Maegor, not any of his wives that had trouble conceiving. Kleinfelter syndrome is a genetic disease where a son gets both an X AND a Y chromosome from his father (which would explain the birth of the dragon QuickSilver as Maegor would have the requisite two X chromosomes to incubate the dragon that resided in his cradle egg. Aenys only received Quicksilver due to being the heir.) If the Faith knew that Maegor was most likely sterile they would have let the marriage through trust me...
Woohyun Fan also considering that Ashara comes from House Dayne a First Men House, was in love with Ned from House Stark a First Men House, and was in all respects except giving birth "Aegon"'s (I still think his name is Aemon) mother who is half Valyrian and half First Men, I'd say she probably taught him the truth about the Faith...
Ryon Reyne that's what i meant by my last comment. "Aegon" knows the bs of the Faith. I know one of the wives of Maegor killed his children due to jaelousy or she claimed that but if Maegor was unable to have any child then what about Aegon? Don't say you believe Visenya conceived Maegor with magic since I am not believer of that theory.
Woohyun Fan that's what I meant by Kleinfelter Syndrome. It's a genetic condition that runs in families where every once in awhile a father will pass an X (male) and Y (female) chromosome instead of one or the other, so Aegon would be XY and Visenya would be XX and Maegor would get an X from his mother but instead of just a Y from his father he got both and X AND a Y so Maegor would be XXY instead of XY which would lead to his sterility... Aegon himself was fine it only affected Maegor...
Ryon Reyne oh.. is there any way to proof that - does the illness show itself through some symptoms we can observe in Maegor - apart from his infertility that is also connected to a mad wife?
I'm...I'm cool with the faith being against incest. Ideally they wouldn't take it out on the children, but incest=bad is generally a good basic rule for society.
Is it any surprise or coincidence that the Faith of the Seven and the Maesters both came out of Old Town? Is there a grander conspiracy behind them both orchestrated by the HighTowers or Gardeners even?
The Order of the Green Hand it seems like multiple arms of control were used. The crown, the faith, education/science were a multifaceted approach to control the people. Over time they all grew independent and developed their own agendas.
they branched out into every aspect of Westerosi life to make their hold almost unbreakable...they all have a role to play and they all seem to have their own approach to accomplishing the same agenda, which is control
GRRM contradicts a lot of his earlier writings in TSOTD, that's one of the short stories few faults. For instance, I'm supposing this was a literal error, as it's written correctly on the video, but you said Visenya suggested Rhaena marry Maegor, then said the faith wouldn't stand for it and proposed Ceryse Hightower. In TSOTD that wasn't the case, Visenya proposed Rhaena to marry Maegor to settle an issue of succession, Aenys was the heir apparent, but since Visenya & Maegor resided on Dragonstone, Maegor took to being called the Prince of Dragonstone, once Rhaena was born, a succession issue arose in which Maegor instead of coming after Aeny's in succession, it was supposed that he then fell to third, behind Rhaena, thats why its said Visenya proposed that marriage, in TSOTD anyway. And the high septon didn't protest at first, it was Aenys & Alyssa who protested the marriage, whom then sent word to the faith, and only after this, did the High Septon send a raven to back to Aegon, warning that the faith would not stand for such marriage, the high septon only then proposed his own neice Ceryse Hightower. Thats how its written in TSOTD.
Chayse SoHo Sent a and Alyssa protested first because they heard first and they only protested because they knew how the faith would react to the marriage. Then they took the initiative to let the high septon know themselves by owning up to there family's decision instead of letting them hear about it somewhere else.
Possibly. It's worth mentioning that the Faith tolerated Aegon I's marriage to both of his sisters. Because of this Aegon kept a stable, positive relationship wiith the faith and the High Septon, calling to Oldtown everytime a new High Septon was made. After he died, this relationship was teetering on a ledge, it wasn't completely done, as Aenys also had a relationship with the faith for a time and they tolerated his marriage to his cousin, Alyssa Velaryon. It's not said why exactly the faith turned on Aenys and refused to acknowledge his son, Aegon II & his marriage to Rhaena, but the decimation of the Aenys/Seven relationship was the literal beginning of Aenys downfall. Maegor completely decimated the Faith and never had the relationship with them that his father and brother did, nor did Visenya.
they allowed it so that Aegon wouldn't burn them. If I were his sisters I woulda said "ok let's get rid of this guy he's controlling our rule too much, stupid faith always lyeing to those they rule over.
I know these are 30 mins long, but I wish you guys had time to make them longer. Not including "wars to come" or the "Jon" stuff, this is the best series.
The Valyrians are conquerors and I always found it hypocritical of Dany to put that much weight to her birthright when at the same time she was so proud of Aegon who took the Seven Kingdoms with no resemblance of a claim at all. And how she had no claim to take Mereen either. But Maegor is a different story. He didn't claim or reclaim some throne but defended it. So by Targaryan standards he wasn't a bad King at all. It always nagged me how fast the realm turned after the concessions made to Aegon who was - judging by the Faith - even more of an abomination than Aenys or Maegor ever were. I never thought about it as that kind of conspiracy, but it does make a whole lot of sense. I'm looking forward when your theory moves on to the Dance of the Dragons and the decline of House Targaryen. Can't imagine whom you will blame for THAT one.
"Efficacious" means the opposite of what I take to be your point re: maester Gowan's efforts and remedies? I only noticed because your word choice is generally impeccable. Great video, by the way.
Now that i finished this episode my mind is flowing with ideas. Like for one we need to look at magor more Closely, maybe he is not as crazy as we thought like killing the workers who built the red keep. And most importantly if the faith effected the targaryen rule this early on perhaps they helped caused the dance of the dragons as some think
I always take these theories with a pinch of salt, many conspiracy theorists either ignore or flat out twist historical facts to suit their narrative and if anyone disagrees they will simply say that “you’re not seeing the whole truth “. I would like to start by saying I still love these videos and am interested in what the Order of the Greenhand has to say. That being said I have alternative reasons for the rebellions: 1. We have to remember that at the time of Aneys’ ascension to the throne, the conquest had only happened thirty years ago, the losses were still fresh in their minds, and while they smiled and bowed and payed respects, they only did so out of fear as they knew what Aegon and his sisters would do if they didn’t. Thus when they saw that Aneys was nothing like his father, they took this chance to rebel, the fact that these rebellions occurred more or less at the same time may seem like a coordinated assault, until you remember that Westeros is huge and the chances of rebellions cropping up simultaneously increase exponentially. And as for the Faith Militant, I agree that they took part in these uprisings, however I feel it was more of them doing it on their own free will and the High Septon looking the other way than him ordering them to do it, after all you would to if there were a band of fanatics in your employ who could kill you if you didn’t say yes. 2. I firmly believe Visenya had Aneys killed, or at the very least, let him die. We cannot dispel the fact that Visenya hated her nephew and sister, nor the fact that she had as much to gain from his death as the faith did. And finally what did she do once her nephew was dead and had brought Maegor back from exile? Did she proclaim Aegon, Aneys’ son, as king and have her and Maegor rule as regents until he came of age? No. Instead she bypassed her nephews children and proclaimed Maegor King, not to mention it should be noted that Visenya never actually helped Aneys out during his reign, but rather undermined it by helping Maegor marry a second time. She knew what the political fallout was and she knew it would hurt Aneys, just as she planned.
A lot of this is believable but Visenya had just as much motive if not more to kill Aenys than the faith. She wanted what was best for the realm and he dynasty and that was a strong decisive destruction of the faith. His death had the added affect of making her son the king, and who wouldn't want to see their child on the thrown?
The Order of the Green Hand oh - they are plenty when it comes to insult us - I haven't seen RLJ believers on Twitter who called NAJ believers morons ffs - but not when it comes to civil discussions? Can I ask two questions good Ser and Lady Greenhand? 1- what is the significance of Aleena? It is one of the names Robert mentiones during the talk between him and Ned about Jon's mother. Becka?, Meryl and Aleena. More importantly yours was Aleena? Doesn't the name reminds you Ashara and Allyria. Since Dayne family seem to have a theme of A names with Arthur/Ashara/Allyria during the time. Maybe Robert knew a few things about Ned's relationship before his marriage to Catelyn but since he is not a guy to gossip forget about it eventually? 2- words of House Forrester is iron from ice. Now I don't know anything about House Forrester but iron from ice doesn't strike me for having a good meaning. Do you think they are from the enemy side?
The Order of the Green Hand I love rawrist but many of the people in those debates are like emergency awesome so you are better not wasting your time there. To me even if they were to be right which I highly doubt it has no merit because their efforts and production value can't even compare to yours because I can do a video like emergency awesome but not like this. And it also bugs me that they are so insulting with something that hasn't been confirmed by grrm. The funny thing is that they are the ones that don't want to debate
that's exactly what we thought too...there are no shortage of "experts" that are willing to say we're idiots for thinking what we do but they all ran for the hills the moment we let it be known that we were willing to go toe to toe with anyone willing 1) I kinda think that Robert has had so many women he confuses which one was which...Robert definitely seems the type to literally not care at all about other guy's business 2) their words exist in a video game, but have never been mentioned in the books... I would have to go back and read more about the game to decide whether or not their words were actually provided by George or if some guy who works for Telltale Gaming decided all the Houses needed words and made a few up to fill in the gaps
The Order of the Green Hand I love the video game but if it says game of thrones and the characters are portrayed with the show actors likeness it doesn't necessarily have to be Canon
Well George said that Dorne is capable of raising 45,000 but I believe that in the current narrative they don't even have 20,000. I'm also under the belief that the 10,000 sent to the Triton we're all green boys and that they all died
im sad because i was working when you upload this video and i couldn,t watch it before my wife.... but stil the best 30 mins of the week :D You are both awesome, please never stop doing this
I like the idea that mageor being actually an alright man but through the faiths manipulation was turned into the most villainous man in history. Cause he crushed the Faiths army.
Just makes me think of how miopic and stupid Cersei is. She really had no clue what she was doing when she let those monsters rearm.
omg no clue. just wait until we get there.
sorry meant to say you have no clue! haha im out of it. and thank you.
Rules are good as long as they're convenient. - Every Septon ever.
great point.
For us not for anyone else
You are the only channel to challenge the "truth" written in the books. Most channels just repeat what we are told. You guys however challenge what is told and see the inconsistencys told by the book and weed out the lies. Also funny how you showed catylyn as the monster she is and magor as a good guy for his cruel nature. Sucks about annys and magor. Would have made a good dual leadership
I absolutely love this comment! And thank you. I'm waiting for someone to think I am crazy for hating Catelyn and respecting Maegor/having a girl crush on Maegor because he's a bad ass. It's like the story Syrio Forel tells Arya, people see what they expect to see. The Sealord called the cat "she" so all the guys who came for the audition to be the First Sword assumed it was a girl cat, when Syrio tells Arya it was very clearly a tomcat. George is a genius.
The Order of the Green Hand in gonna read the magor lore again as I need to see it in another point of view
ShtyepaanCZ I know right. Some names I can't spell even if you show me right before.
I guess you haven't heard of Preston Jacobs.
Jason Sizzler I love Preston Jacob. I see his as bringing more of a sci fi element to pre existing "magic story" I see his points and like to believe some acts are bot magic. The show has a magical elemenr but George said it would be wild and uncontrollable or something like that. I meant that these two go against the norm similar to Preston but in a different way. Every other channel besides these two and a couple others just restate the same thing over and over again. Even if its right. Most people dont look into the holes in the story which are left thier to have people ask questions. That's what I meant to clear it up. Thanks for reading
I'm not fully convinced by your Andal theory but I 100% agree that the maesters are against old ways, dragons, first man, house targaryen, magic and alchemy.
Many ppl think that as magic was fading so were the dragons but I personally think that the maesters have been poisoning every egg and dragon they had access to.
I'm as well suspecting that everyone who dies from the "bad belly" was poisoned.
The amount of work & research you put in your videos is astounding! TY for educating us on our GoTs passion!
With regards to the High Septon taking a week to realize resisting Aegon was probably a bad idea, I always assumed he (the High Septon) or his brother (lord Hightower) immediately realized this, but also knew the people probably wouldn't accept it, so by having the High Septon "pray" for 7 days and claiming the gods said it was okay, they had cover for not fighting Aegon.
Agreed. Maegor was victim of being a transitional ruler in a dinasty that got cucked hard by the hightowers , same thing with the dance years later.
If you guys read sons of the dragon attentively, you will see that both aenya and his queen, even if they were "softer", they wanted maegor close by
that's exactly right.
An alternative to Maegor being crowned would’ve been to declare Aegon son of Aenys as king, with Maegor as Hand and Protector of the Realm, since Aegon was still in his minority. Maegor could then have worked to save his niece and nephew and maintain Targaryen rule in Westeros.
Thoughts ?
"The faith is more of a tool that they use to impose political power, than an actual religion."
Isn't that pretty much the case with all of them?
All of them.
I believe in God and I have to say I am disappointed with our predecessors. The church the Romans controlled was a force of tyranny and greedy money grabbers for like over 1000 years in Europe.
No. Just like how some Popes are more political than religious, some are more religious than political. Same with imams, rabbis, Dalai Lamas, Ayatollahs, and whatever else is out there.
Sometimes, politics IS religion, as was the case with the Romans and Greeks.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 Except that Roman Church uplifted the Europeans. Prior to them forcibly baptizing everyone, Europe after Rome was Somalia with white people.
@@HolyknightVader999 this is such an ass backward reading of history, holy shit
Just goes to show how dangerous it is to house faith and learning in the same place. All power will seek to consume the next closest power that is consumable.
Love the content you two. Keep it up.
thanks so much!
That's not necessarily true since all colleges were faith institutions
@@Themrine2013 As a person who went to a religious school, I can say its pretty fuckiing toxic!
The faith of the seven is the only religion we have seen in detail that shows no hints of it being real in any way.
very true.
Altrantis oh yeah because Rhollor and the old gods let their followers do some serious magic but nothing from the seven
if Visenya and Maegor weren’t there, House Targaryen would have perished after Aenys died. seriously. his son Aegon (albeit too young) would just be a pawn of the lords and other pious rebels. it was easy for Visenya and Maegor to have the throne even without waiting for Aenys’s death, yet they did not anyways. thumbs up for this channel!
So this makes me wonder if the "Targaryan Conquest" itself might have been the result of a conspiracy, if not a counter-conspiracy, especially when we look at who came out on top. The great houses actually seem to solidify their control and the Targaryan rule brings stability. The Starks, Aryns and Lanisters keep their domains intact and can solidify peace. Also, the Starks and Aryns who seemed to get drawn into conflict by their vassals have a pretense for a lasting peace agreement.
Furthermore all three of them lose the potential threat of an Iron Islands controlled Riverlands along their borders. The Gardeners and Dundareons (who fought each other over the Dornish Marches constantly) are both replaced with more peaceable leadership. Also the Tyrell get to ascend from just being the power behind the throne in the Reach to the actual power in the Reach. Picking the Targaryians, as outsiders, to unite the realms also makes sense, since if any of the existing great houses had tried on their own, the resulting jealousy and infighting would quickly undo that work, as we have seen since Robert's Rebellion.
House Horae and the Ironborn, House Gardener, and House Dundareon were some of the biggest losers, but not the only ones. By far in the long run the Faith of the Seven was also a pretty big loser. Losing their rights over trials and the faith militant. If we consider that their might have been a behind-the-scenes power struggle going on in the Reach between the Hightowers and Tyrells, with the Gardeners as merely puppet-rulers or figureheads for some time it starts to make a bit of sense. if the "Oldtown conspiracy" between the Hight Tower, Starry Sept and Citadel was a force they had to not only contend with but compete with for power, they might have decided to look elsewhere for support. When we consider that the most powerful of the three players in the conspiracy (the Starry Sept) is also the biggest loser, it's entirely plausible that the loss of power of the faith after the Targaryan conquest wasn't an unintended side-effect, but in fact a goal. And even though the faith continues to be influential, the High Septon has been moved to Kings Landing, all the way on the other side of Westeros from the Citadel and the High Tower, and capable of being influenced by the crown, who is at least capable of basically installing a High Septon by the time of the main series.
How the hell does a 30 minute video only feel like 10 minutes? Lol great video guys I will chew my fingers off waiting for the next one.
aw! thanks that's such a compliment. :D
I was just rereading acok and in the last chapter while maester luwin is dying he crawls to the heart tree in the Godswood, considering he has a valyrian steel chain he has to be well versed in his understanding of the dark arts/old powers. Is the reason he crawls all the way to the weirwood to give his dying blood to the many faced god?
that's sketch as f*ck right?
The Order of the Green Hand especially considering he did everything in his power to dissuade bran from understanding his powers.
@@rodstone1597 They probably did the same with the targs
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Or he was giving it to the old gods so he can be part of the Weirwood hive mind network.
Great video! As always. Something I discovered while re-reading the last quarter of TWOIAF companion books for the 8th time 😂.. The Maesters (or whoever is acting historian at the time) speak of other species of humanoids having trouble conceiving with humans from other areas (several other regions, actually) but they never credit the Targaryens as having the same issues - instead they only condemn their incestual ways. Which, from all of the miscarriages and still borns recorded in the Targaryen family histories it’s apparent that this also affected these fair haired and indigo eye’d people. The highly knowledgeable information on how females of certain cultures can’t breed with men of differing cultures but the men of the same race are capable of breeding with women of different cultures is eerie. WHY DO THE HISTORIANS KNOW THIS? Has someone been keeping records of cross-breeding different species? And if so, how was this info acquired? And why do they call it breeding, as if referring to animals instead of people? Why do the histories recognize this problem in other people’s but not the Targaryens? Seems fishy, right?
This series on the Andals is absolutely wonderful. I missed all of this reading the books, yet it seems completely obvious after your explanations.
I wonder if the faith knew Ceryse was barren and a way to keep the Maegor from producing heirs?
Also I’ve always wondered why Maegor was called the cruel given Dany’s seeming admiration (it’s what made me start questioning who the sources of information are)
yes I think that chick was guzzling moontea
Like current cersei did with robert
I love these 30 minutes videos
Emre Saladin fuck yeah me too I hope they do more
thanks guys!
Visenya was framed
absolutely. if i ever have a daughter i am naming her Visenya (I informed Ser of this yesterday).
I never want your videos to end! 30 minutes goes by so fast. Loved the insight here. Your theories are always backed with text and I appreciate that. Hope to hear more about his hand in building the Red Keep in the future. Well done!
thank you so much!
The way the Hightowers treated Aegon the Conqueror seems to be paralleled in the way they dealt with the Oakenfist... lavishing him with praise and titles (admiral) and then suggesting it would be fitting for him to go and deal with the stepstones and the iron born. Meanwhile, the Hightowers main way to fight them was to get them to fight each other. Thanks Otto, for doing such a masterful job of this... but he wasn't the only one.
Watching this series is like a breath of fresh air... from a dragon. You guys are on fire!
You really do bring a new perspective to A Song of Ice and Fire. I would have never thought there was a possibility that Maegor wasn't as cruel as his title would like you to believe. I particularly like the Daenerys quote at the end of the video because I find it very interesting Dany says she is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel when she's not. She's the blood of Aegon and Aenys.
But what if those lying piece of shit Andals were lying to us about that too? What if Daenerys really is the descended from the bloodline of Maegor, Aegon and also Visenya? If you think about it, she is the first Targaryen to successfully hatch dragons. I always found it interesting the World of Ice and Fire dropped hints Rhaenys had other lovers. That presents the possibility the Targaryen bloodline as we know it does not descend from Aegon the Conqueror. What if Rhaenys had an Andal lover who got her pregnant with Aenys? I also find it very odd and convenient Rhaenys eventually ends up missing/dead. So that means the Andals already had the Iron Throne as well which could explain why the High Septon rejected Visenya's proposal to have Maegor and Aenys' daughter marry. The Andals did not want the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and House Targaryen to continue which it would through Maegor. Isn't it also strange Maegor had the most trouble conceiving whereas Aenys (who may not have the blood of Aegon) had no trouble at all? Did the High Sepon know Ceryse was infertile? Perhaps the introduction of the Andal genes in the Targaryen bloodline is what killed the dragons too....
Gel Rose no doubt via use of the Citadel they'd discovered how Targs were able to pass on the 'blood' through incest, something even a mix child of targ and andal blood can't possess, regardless of how Targ they appeared to be. So they used it against them in the Game of Thrones, where their experience in the 'wheel politics' gave them an advantage. They knew that to keep their rule, the Targs would have to intermarry other houses and appease them. And they eventually would weaken - and their dragons with them, lets not forget that back then magics were still accepted and studied. It was a long endgame but inevitably would be in their favor, as the Targs would NEED the septons for the people. As long as they didn't push too hard right away theyd slip thru the cracks til it was time.
School is out, order of the greenhand is on. My day is complete. Greetings from the netherlands.
greetings! we hope you enjoyed. :)
Fuck yes! Maegor the Cruel is the one king who actually broke the seven, the faith, and the other for the next hundred years.
You guys have encouraged me and inspired me to continue working on my own novel. I've been working on it for 12 years, and finally it has taken shape.
OMG the “long night juice” I’ve been waiting for! Thx! So brilliantly researched and executed. I️ truly appreciate it.
thank you!
Hightower and Targaryen marriage are nothing but trouble
Yea since they whacked Damon Hightower and raised and trained the future lord, they're basically Andals under a First Men Name.
As soon as you got to House Royce I knew it would be First Men Houses who fought the rebels/Andals.
Also, if we're discussing TSOTD, shouldn't we be citing more from this story? (Noticed this comes later in the video.) The faith didn't turn on Aeny's initially, while he was being crowned in Oldtown, some in Westeros were already plotting rebellion, citing that Westeros needed a warrior not a dreamer as it's king. And reminiscing back to days before the conquest where "a knight could carve out lands and riches with just a sword, a horse and good men. And didn't need a Kings leave to tax and condemn their own smallfolk". Loudest amongst his detractors were Visenya, stating that Aenys himself knew he wasn't strong enough to rule, or why else would he gift Blackfyre to his brother Maegor. Then came the rebellions of Harren The Red, whom killed Lord Gargon The Guest and his retainers. And the Vulture King in Dorne (Dorne didn't rebell, they weren't initially a part of the Seven Kingdoms, not until Daeron I anyway, I believe.) The faith turning on Aenys came later, when he married his son, Aegon II, to his daughter Rhaena, the sister and brother marriage that the faith condemned. Only after this did the expulsion of Septon Murmison from the faith, and the "King Abomination" title come. They also didn't recognize Aegon II as the Prince Of Dragonstone & the heir to Aenys.
This is a little unrelated but I love how these theories always remind me of my history lessons of conflicts between the pope/church and the king. Or the missionaries of old. (In my case mostly german not english history, but it still fits remarkably well not only to english history).
Legitimately needed this to calm my stress levels before a presentation!
aww! i hope it went well!
I've listened/watched this 3 times and it blows me away! I mean, all your videos seem to whether I ascribe to that particular theory or not (usually I do). The amount to research and dot connecting you do has made book readers like me see the true genius of GRRM come to life like no one else possibly can, save for Ilio and Linda. (Do you know the horse that changes gender?) Love your work! Please keep it up!
thank you so much
Some bitter lies will go nicely with my afternoon tea and cookies, thank you very much.
bittersweet afternoon for you then ser. glad you enjoyed.
Finally! The withdrawals were real.
Noooooooo! I need more, I️ got these cheeseburgers man pleeeeeeease
Gurt Reynolds think I had a few shakes waiting.
Right? Lol
hahahaha the next one is in the works, and will be on the man of the hour, Maegor.
A.k.a my favorite Targaryen king of Westeros
30 mins of greatness
BUT now I know why it taking so long for WoW . every time Gorge see one of your videos he's reminded of all the world building he did in the books .and the end lees ways WoW can go .THANKS
all in fun love your insight as always
They were terrified of the Ironborn. And its telling that the Targaryens never considered extinguishing the Rabid Vikings, preferring to keep them around.
This is probably one of the best ones you've made yet, keep up the good work.
thanks so much!
I personally think the reason the other southern kingdoms converted because of financial necessity, Aegon took the Reach and the Westerlands , the 2 most prosperous kingdoms, in the Conquest.
Would be real easy for the common followers of the Faith of the 7 to boycot any trade with followers of the old gods instead of the grey rats doing missionary work, they'd be very easy to dispose of and let's be honest.... if a Pias man comes along and says:" You must convert yadayadayada" most people would rebel or just not give a crap but soon as it interferes with your food or livelihood (trade) people tend to choose the path of least resistance.
Quick question: Why do you guys think the Citadel continues the custom of locking would be Maesters in a dark room w/the glass candles? They clearly have an anti-magic sentiment, so what's the purpose of demonstrating some things can't be explained? Is that procedure just grandfathered in? Is it to give the false appearance of free thinking?
Ashley of Naath - it's to show the Maesters that magic is indeed dead. It was once for them to see the wonders of it, but since Magic died (most likely because of them), they continued the tradition to show the Maesters what a foolish path they would be on if they continued to study for that chain.
Ashley of Naath
I think that it serves three purposes
1. Measters who tried to light it but failed can be convinced that magic is dead and be kept under watch.
2. Measters who did not even try to do it are known as loyal.
3. Those who succeed can be killed of quickly.
Joren van der ark - agreed. Either killed or manipulated.
Throw the apple!
With this...the whole story comes in a complete different light. And Sam is being fooled.
Aenys was a king for peace, Maegor was a king bred for war. Perhaps Maegor was the king that the targaryens needed to continue, even if his methods where very...questionable. It was Aenys stubborness regarding a marriage(?) that lead to the Faith denounce him as "King Abomination" and rile up certain lords and the smallfolk against him.
My friends, you are criminally underratted. Your videos are straight fire=)
Thank you so much
While waiting for the wind of winter to blow, the in-depth analysis provided by you guys is the next best thing. Thank you for putting in this labor of love. I know it's love, but I also know it's a great deal of work to create all of this beautiful work. Thank you for doing it and sharing it. I know that this work isn't the same as writing, but you guys should consider, either together, or as individuals, writing fiction. At least explore the possibility. If you're anything like me, that probably seems completely overwhelming, but you guys have a talent for details and you both communicate well, which would translate to writing I believe. Anyway, just thanks :). I look forward to every new nugget of analysis from you guys. You've given me hours of free entertainment and a greater understanding of this work we all adore. Love. Gratitude.
I have to say , has anyone else noticed that anytime a Hightower or andle was married to the first men or those in the north something was amiss? I think that Magors forced wife was one of the worse choices. Had he married his sister/niece? (got confused) then he would have had children. Also, don't forget it was an Andle family who Ned was made to marry right? Also Jorha was given a Hightower as a reward..uh did he want her or was he forced to marry her? / We know that there is highly specious activity from the past that makes me think, Starks was from First men and children of the forest.) We know the Danes were not Andles but part of the first men (maybe more important then we all know). I would love to see some kind of timeline, like that of (Ned+Ashara),, that shows when the first men had to fight the Andles and what houses were forced into marriages with those called the Andles? We know from real History and from the Books so far, that marriages were always used in a political way to conect two houses and make them more powerful in there world.
I have always felt more respect for the First Men and Valyrians than the Andals but I have just begun to check out this new series I see you have on the Andals.
oh man, i get so happy when i see that you guys droped a new video, i just know it will be a good 30 min of my day. Thank you. hugs from brasil
thank you for watching!
God bless Maegor. Not the Cruel, but Maegor the Godsent
Hasan Wilson Maegor the Magnificent
Johnathan Kinne Maegor the Merciful. He gave them the Dragon's Mercy
Hasan Wilson Maegor the Malevolent, doing evil to evil men....and loyal stone masons.
Johnathan Kinne he needed his secrets safe. Only the Blood of the Dragon may know those secrets
Indeed.
At 13:00 there is mention of a Savage Sam Tarly of old. Made me chuckle.
Brandon of the Bloody Blade seems dichotomous as well. And Theon Stark? My head hurts.
Long live Valyria
sing it!
Miss you guys and being enlightened by your videos. Hope everything is fine with you both. I guarantee you I'm not complaining, no problem on waiting, because I know the quality is worth. I'm just worried if anything happened. (Ok, I also admit that I'm missing my fix!😆)
We’re ok. Just ridiculously busy. New video should be online in a few hours
Whoo hoo! I have been checking frequently every day. :) Love your channel!
Can't wait to hear you talk about Baelor the blessed..
and now, the zealots are armed and dangerous... thanks Cersei... I'm torn between wanting Cersei to loose the trial vs Ser Strong exterminating the faith militants
Anyone else dying for another video? The wait is intense.
D&d grow stronger as the cast pay gets longer and the number of episodes shorter first they misportray your favorite characters and then they sent their brain dead fans against you
Rhaena should've married Maegor so that both branches would be joined together. Rhaena should've succeeded Aenys and then her children by Maegor
I know I feel bad for Maegor.
When will it end, when will the fucking Andals and their false god get their due. Also sorry for my bad english
You dont know how much we missed you guys hope everything is okay
aww thank you! we are good. we lost a few days due to work stuff, but we are back on schedule, and very eager to get our video on maegor out.
The Order of the Green Hand I'm glad you are well
So besides the stability of conforming to the region's most popular religion,why did the Targarians abandon their ancient gods so easily? (besides naming their dragons after their gods.) Did they see the Doom as their gods abandoning them? Also it's said that the Targarians left to Dragon Stone just a few decades before the Doom. Bringing thier family,staff,slaves etc..So why would the secrets of Valerian Steel have died out. Wouldn't the Targarians have brought their personal blacksmiths and pyromancers with them? Yes the steel would still be rare,but it should still be able to be made.(atleast as of the time of Aegons conquest.) The Targarians should be even richer and more powerful,because theoretically they should have had a monopoly on the steel. I also find it hard to believe that their family is the only ones to survive.. not one other family was off of the main Valerian island..no other family was off overseeing their vast free holds around essos? Just like the Andals the Targarians story seems pretty shifty as well.
oh my fucking god yes, i just got back from university and to be wuite honest i thought you just decided to skip this week and finding out there's a video from you guys just made my day! More lies by the andals to think about....
enjoy yim lee!!
You are the only theorists I watch that make my head hurt, but I come back for more - happily. Great video as always. I gotta go back and start this series again. No surprise, 'cause I've done it before with your other series. LOL! 😊❤️
aww! sorry we make your head hurt, but glad you are enjoying it! :)
could the Church of the Seven be related to the Church of Starry Wisdom, & both to the Manyfaced God of Braavos & the Children?
all relate do Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep.
no comment. :)
Go and watch the “Lucifer means lightbringer channel”.
in Lovecraftian mythos, it's known, among others, as The Faceless God, & its cult is had at the Church of the Starry Wisdom.
GRRM might have taken it as an inspiration.....
JG R
Of course they are related after all the seat of the high septon before the sept of baelor was called the starry sept as in starry church.
Fabulous content as always. "Now....So......Well...." I always know a real pearl of wisdom is soon to follow the artful narrative pause. Have a beautiful thanksgiving greenhands, love QOT.🌹
Maegor sounds like a tougher version of Tywin if that is possible. Basically if the Starks were writing the history of the books they would call Tywin something like Tywin the butcher or the cruel.
I agree but I would say more like if the Tully's wrote the history since Cat tully had the holier than thou attitude she had to get it from somewhere
Idk i feel like the starks would be fair in their accounts, and they would focus on real events, not false flags or false info xP
That's the feelin i get tho
They’d likely call him the lion as he deserves but have a note about how lions kill their enemies cubs.
Super early I been looking out for you the past few days. Result, lets do this!
Jim Mozart let's do this.
Every time a dragon turns up at old town they piss themselves and strike their banners
Long live the order of the green hand, keepers of Westeros's true secrets. Love the series guys, you've really created quite an impressive web of intrigue with these videos, its actually pretty shocking how well they all tie in together. G RR M himself would be proud.
Thank you so much! I actually said that to Ser last night, I'm like do you think George would be proud? hahaha
When I first heard that you were doing multiple videos on this, I expected two videos, not three.
You are truly spoiling us :)
lots more to come actually because we keep finding more and more.
Yay!
Chills guys!! I’ve got chills! One of my favourite series yet! I have a few I love love love and it’s up there
Amazing work! You two really compliment one another. It would be so cool to see you guys at work
Can’t wait for the next!
Thank you so much
Driving me nuts seeing new video this morning and having to wait all day to finally watch congrates great video
I think it's interesting that Jahaerys the Conciliator had many of his children sent to the faith and the ones that didn't died, pirates, falling from horse race drunk which seems likely fleeing being chased after yelling stuff that was chalked up to her being drunk, alleged summer fever death which since not fact likely poison, one went hunting a week later complained of a stitch in his side and then died whatever a stitch is
Aemon= pirates
Baelon= hunting side stitch
Daella= child bearing married 80ac death 82ac
which her baby to Rodrick Arryn became Queen
Viserra= "drunk horse race"
Gael= disappearing from court to allegedly die of summer fever
given to the citadel Veagon, and Maegelle, Saera were all given to the faith 9/13 of his children lived to adulthood and Alyssa not much known
it's interesting about Archmaester Vaegon is it says he held "The Ring and rod and Mask of yellow gold when he became Archmaester " that's the only time you hear about those relating to maesters it's crazy how big mask are in this story and how well it ties to ritual mask history and lore of are world as well as mimeing if you have never looked into that it's fascinating check out Jacques Lecoq and his teaching style with mask it will get you on a train of research which is surprisingly similar sounding to the faceless men
Wonderful video, guys. Really enjoyed it😊.
Thanks Ashley.
Fantastic video! Too bad Maegor wasn't born first he would have crushed the Faith under his heel in a matter of days of them starting this shit.
This addiction is real. I need my fix.
Saw yall on ideas of ice and fire... loved it!!! BTW thanks to yall and Preston and IOIAF, I will not be watching season 8 of the show. The show is shit and I held on too long
Ser Tr3ces Pieces I know! I own every season on blu-ray but when I saw advertisements for season 7 my first thought was "who cares?".
You might as well finish it though it's going to be like 6 episodes I think after putting in however many hours you have watching Seven Seasons worth of episodes have any you can probably manage to squeeze out 6 more. Might as well be a completionist
Ser Tr3ces Pieces Fuck the show. Ever since the damn show everyone has been saying Stannis the Mannis burned his daughter. She is at castle black. Like Stannis the Mannis needs to burn a little girl to win battles. Defeated Victarion Greyjoy and the iron fleet. Held storms end for a year. Took dragonstone from targaryens. Defeated 100,000 wildlings with 5,000 men. The greatest military commander of all time.
I'll watch season 8 too so I can fully appreciate the critique of my favorite UA-camrs. =D
I'm counting on you!
He never took Dragonstone from the Targaryen's. Rhaella fled with Viserys & Daenaerys, leaving only a couple loyalists on the Island.
Vildan Atasever as Genna Lannister? Yes! And my man Maegor was vilified at age three! Three years old Maegor who begin his training with swords was said to be "cut cats" And First men Houses Royce/Tarly/Baratheon supporting their King ♥ and showing POS Andals who is the boss. Maegor should marry Rhaena sigh then he would have sons and daughters of himself. Visenya was right to call Aenys on his bullshit. Vhagar would show them who has the power - Visenya saving Aenys actually from being poisoned? And being framed for his death? Maegor first of his name with his iron throne. Omg I just come from school and wrote comments as I watched lol. I love you OotGH don't leave us without your videos. And of course Daenerys Targaryen the Slayer of Lies would choose Maegor over Aenys lol, she is a strong queen who deals with Ghis and their cruel slavery, Harpy and their murders - let's see in sixth book what kind of Septa, Ashara were to Aegon.
Woohyun Fan there is evidence that it was Maegor, not any of his wives that had trouble conceiving. Kleinfelter syndrome is a genetic disease where a son gets both an X AND a Y chromosome from his father (which would explain the birth of the dragon QuickSilver as Maegor would have the requisite two X chromosomes to incubate the dragon that resided in his cradle egg. Aenys only received Quicksilver due to being the heir.) If the Faith knew that Maegor was most likely sterile they would have let the marriage through trust me...
Woohyun Fan also considering that Ashara comes from House Dayne a First Men House, was in love with Ned from House Stark a First Men House, and was in all respects except giving birth "Aegon"'s (I still think his name is Aemon) mother who is half Valyrian and half First Men, I'd say she probably taught him the truth about the Faith...
Ryon Reyne that's what i meant by my last comment. "Aegon" knows the bs of the Faith. I know one of the wives of Maegor killed his children due to jaelousy or she claimed that but if Maegor was unable to have any child then what about Aegon? Don't say you believe Visenya conceived Maegor with magic since I am not believer of that theory.
Woohyun Fan that's what I meant by Kleinfelter Syndrome. It's a genetic condition that runs in families where every once in awhile a father will pass an X (male) and Y (female) chromosome instead of one or the other, so Aegon would be XY and Visenya would be XX and Maegor would get an X from his mother but instead of just a Y from his father he got both and X AND a Y so Maegor would be XXY instead of XY which would lead to his sterility... Aegon himself was fine it only affected Maegor...
Ryon Reyne oh.. is there any way to proof that - does the illness show itself through some symptoms we can observe in Maegor - apart from his infertility that is also connected to a mad wife?
I'm...I'm cool with the faith being against incest. Ideally they wouldn't take it out on the children, but incest=bad is generally a good basic rule for society.
The Griffith artwork at 4:37 really threw me for a loop. I didn't need a reason to dislike Targaryons more, but here we are, I do. :)
hahahahaha you like how i gave him purple eyes too
You guys take me on one heck of a journey with these videos. Your best series yet and that is bloody well saying something love it
thank you so much
Day officially brightened!
yay! good.
Is it any surprise or coincidence that the Faith of the Seven and the Maesters both came out of Old Town? Is there a grander conspiracy behind them both orchestrated by the HighTowers or Gardeners even?
+Jim Young We actually wonder if the Andals invented the position of maester, as earlier descriptions of the citadel don’t mention maesters
The Order of the Green Hand it seems like multiple arms of control were used. The crown, the faith, education/science were a multifaceted approach to control the people. Over time they all grew independent and developed their own agendas.
they branched out into every aspect of Westerosi life to make their hold almost unbreakable...they all have a role to play and they all seem to have their own approach to accomplishing the same agenda, which is control
SO thier roots go deep and theri growing strong
GRRM contradicts a lot of his earlier writings in TSOTD, that's one of the short stories few faults. For instance, I'm supposing this was a literal error, as it's written correctly on the video, but you said Visenya suggested Rhaena marry Maegor, then said the faith wouldn't stand for it and proposed Ceryse Hightower. In TSOTD that wasn't the case, Visenya proposed Rhaena to marry Maegor to settle an issue of succession, Aenys was the heir apparent, but since Visenya & Maegor resided on Dragonstone, Maegor took to being called the Prince of Dragonstone, once Rhaena was born, a succession issue arose in which Maegor instead of coming after Aeny's in succession, it was supposed that he then fell to third, behind Rhaena, thats why its said Visenya proposed that marriage, in TSOTD anyway. And the high septon didn't protest at first, it was Aenys & Alyssa who protested the marriage, whom then sent word to the faith, and only after this, did the High Septon send a raven to back to Aegon, warning that the faith would not stand for such marriage, the high septon only then proposed his own neice Ceryse Hightower. Thats how its written in TSOTD.
Chayse SoHo Sent a and Alyssa protested first because they heard first and they only protested because they knew how the faith would react to the marriage. Then they took the initiative to let the high septon know themselves by owning up to there family's decision instead of letting them hear about it somewhere else.
This story sounds very strange. It can be seen as a fabriation of the Faith.
Possibly. It's worth mentioning that the Faith tolerated Aegon I's marriage to both of his sisters. Because of this Aegon kept a stable, positive relationship wiith the faith and the High Septon, calling to Oldtown everytime a new High Septon was made. After he died, this relationship was teetering on a ledge, it wasn't completely done, as Aenys also had a relationship with the faith for a time and they tolerated his marriage to his cousin, Alyssa Velaryon. It's not said why exactly the faith turned on Aenys and refused to acknowledge his son, Aegon II & his marriage to Rhaena, but the decimation of the Aenys/Seven relationship was the literal beginning of Aenys downfall. Maegor completely decimated the Faith and never had the relationship with them that his father and brother did, nor did Visenya.
it is always the faiths fault.
they allowed it so that Aegon wouldn't burn them. If I were his sisters I woulda said "ok let's get rid of this guy he's controlling our rule too much, stupid faith always lyeing to those they rule over.
keep up the good work
I know these are 30 mins long, but I wish you guys had time to make them longer. Not including "wars to come" or the "Jon" stuff, this is the best series.
thank you!
The Valyrians are conquerors and I always found it hypocritical of Dany to put that much weight to her birthright when at the same time she was so proud of Aegon who took the Seven Kingdoms with no resemblance of a claim at all. And how she had no claim to take Mereen either.
But Maegor is a different story. He didn't claim or reclaim some throne but defended it. So by Targaryan standards he wasn't a bad King at all.
It always nagged me how fast the realm turned after the concessions made to Aegon who was - judging by the Faith - even more of an abomination than Aenys or Maegor ever were. I never thought about it as that kind of conspiracy, but it does make a whole lot of sense. I'm looking forward when your theory moves on to the Dance of the Dragons and the decline of House Targaryen. Can't imagine whom you will blame for THAT one.
You two are the best at this.
thank you ser!
"Efficacious" means the opposite of what I take to be your point re: maester Gowan's efforts and remedies? I only noticed because your word choice is generally impeccable. Great video, by the way.
If Aegon wanted to unite mankind against the others, why didn’t he conquer Essos?
Now that i finished this episode my mind is flowing with ideas. Like for one we need to look at magor more
Closely, maybe he is not as crazy as we thought like killing the workers who built the red keep. And most importantly if the faith effected the targaryen rule this early on perhaps they helped caused the dance of the dragons as some think
4:36 Is that Griffith? Holy shit, that's awesome you guys!
Before I watch the video, I just want to tell you guys that I'm really digging this "lying POS Andals" series.. now to watch the vid.
I always take these theories with a pinch of salt, many conspiracy theorists either ignore or flat out twist historical facts to suit their narrative and if anyone disagrees they will simply say that “you’re not seeing the whole truth “. I would like to start by saying I still love these videos and am interested in what the Order of the Greenhand has to say. That being said I have alternative reasons for the rebellions:
1. We have to remember that at the time of Aneys’ ascension to the throne, the conquest had only happened thirty years ago, the losses were still fresh in their minds, and while they smiled and bowed and payed respects, they only did so out of fear as they knew what Aegon and his sisters would do if they didn’t. Thus when they saw that Aneys was nothing like his father, they took this chance to rebel, the fact that these rebellions occurred more or less at the same time may seem like a coordinated assault, until you remember that Westeros is huge and the chances of rebellions cropping up simultaneously increase exponentially. And as for the Faith Militant, I agree that they took part in these uprisings, however I feel it was more of them doing it on their own free will and the High Septon looking the other way than him ordering them to do it, after all you would to if there were a band of fanatics in your employ who could kill you if you didn’t say yes.
2. I firmly believe Visenya had Aneys killed, or at the very least, let him die. We cannot dispel the fact that Visenya hated her nephew and sister, nor the fact that she had as much to gain from his death as the faith did. And finally what did she do once her nephew was dead and had brought Maegor back from exile? Did she proclaim Aegon, Aneys’ son, as king and have her and Maegor rule as regents until he came of age? No. Instead she bypassed her nephews children and proclaimed Maegor King, not to mention it should be noted that Visenya never actually helped Aneys out during his reign, but rather undermined it by helping Maegor marry a second time. She knew what the political fallout was and she knew it would hurt Aneys, just as she planned.
Agreed. She definitely could have helped Aenys more than she did. She helped him about as much as Doran helped Viserys and Daenerys.
A lot of this is believable but Visenya had just as much motive if not more to kill Aenys than the faith. She wanted what was best for the realm and he dynasty and that was a strong decisive destruction of the faith. His death had the added affect of making her son the king, and who wouldn't want to see their child on the thrown?
You guys made waiting for TWOW easier. Btw was there any baba yiğit who agreed to discuss RLJ/NAJ with you and Rawrist? I would love to watch it.
I don't think it's going to happen...Rawrist and us both tried to find someone to debate me and we can't find anyone who is willing to do it
The Order of the Green Hand oh - they are plenty when it comes to insult us - I haven't seen RLJ believers on Twitter who called NAJ believers morons ffs - but not when it comes to civil discussions? Can I ask two questions good Ser and Lady Greenhand?
1- what is the significance of Aleena? It is one of the names Robert mentiones during the talk between him and Ned about Jon's mother. Becka?, Meryl and Aleena. More importantly yours was Aleena? Doesn't the name reminds you Ashara and Allyria. Since Dayne family seem to have a theme of A names with Arthur/Ashara/Allyria during the time. Maybe Robert knew a few things about Ned's relationship before his marriage to Catelyn but since he is not a guy to gossip forget about it eventually?
2- words of House Forrester is iron from ice. Now I don't know anything about House Forrester but iron from ice doesn't strike me for having a good meaning. Do you think they are from the enemy side?
The Order of the Green Hand I love rawrist but many of the people in those debates are like emergency awesome so you are better not wasting your time there. To me even if they were to be right which I highly doubt it has no merit because their efforts and production value can't even compare to yours because I can do a video like emergency awesome but not like this. And it also bugs me that they are so insulting with something that hasn't been confirmed by grrm. The funny thing is that they are the ones that don't want to debate
that's exactly what we thought too...there are no shortage of "experts" that are willing to say we're idiots for thinking what we do but they all ran for the hills the moment we let it be known that we were willing to go toe to toe with anyone willing
1) I kinda think that Robert has had so many women he confuses which one was which...Robert definitely seems the type to literally not care at all about other guy's business
2) their words exist in a video game, but have never been mentioned in the books... I would have to go back and read more about the game to decide whether or not their words were actually provided by George or if some guy who works for Telltale Gaming decided all the Houses needed words and made a few up to fill in the gaps
The Order of the Green Hand I love the video game but if it says game of thrones and the characters are portrayed with the show actors likeness it doesn't necessarily have to be Canon
Thanks for making my lunch break
our pleasure!
Well George said that Dorne is capable of raising 45,000 but I believe that in the current narrative they don't even have 20,000. I'm also under the belief that the 10,000 sent to the Triton we're all green boys and that they all died
I said it before and I'll say it again you guys make the best game of thrones content here in youtube ...keep growing strong!
Thank you so much. We appreciate it
This channel keeps me alive
4:38 GRIFIIIIIIIIIIIIIITH
Good video btw.
hhaha i gave him purple eyes though.
im sad because i was working when you upload this video and i couldn,t watch it before my wife.... but stil the best 30 mins of the week :D You are both awesome, please never stop doing this
Thank you so much!
Another hit out of the park! You guys are the best! Very well done. Thank you.
One of your best videos!